This is ridiculous. The description of what happened, along with the link to MensRights on Reddit, is below. Question is, rape or not rape. I say not rape. This silly woman was asking for this. You are into “knife play?” What are you, insane? When you are a woman who is into knife play, exactly what sort of males do you figure are going to like to engage in knife play with women? You got it. Maniacs. Guys who like to fantasize about raping women. About torturing women. About kidnapping women. About killing women. Who else would be into such a thing?
She also likes to be choked? What a dumb bitch. Any woman who likes to be choked is out of her head. And guys who like to choke women are assholes. What sort of a guy likes to choke women? Easy. A guy who likes to fantasize about being a serial killer? A guy who dreams about being Ted Bundy because that’s his hero. A maniac.
Sure, this guy violated all of the “rules” of this insane community, but so what? I know a thing or two about this crazy community. Let me tell you something. Rapes, quite similar to this or probably much worse, happen all the time. I mean real rapes. Real rapes and quasi-rapes like below. The BD/SM community is rapey as all get out. In fact, at many BD/SM conferences, a lot of the speakers say there is no such thing as rape in BD/SM. As long as you are into torture sex, there is no such thing as rape.
Sure, these people have all sorts of crazy “rules,” but given the sociopathic men are who attracted to this sort of thing, who thinks anyone is going to follow them? And yes, many of the male sadists in this community are sociopaths. The BD/SM community is swarming with sociopathic men. This is like a candy store for them. And even if they are not sociopathic, just what sort of man do you think a sadist is? A sadist is a guy who gets off on hurting other people. What sort of an asshole gets off on that? A male heterosexual sadist is a guy who loves to hurt women. That’s the definition of what he is.
So all these lunatic women hooking up with these guys are looking to have sex and get into relationships with guys who like to hurt women. What exactly do they expect is going to happen when you start messing around with guys who like to hurt women? Why would any sane woman have anything to do with some maniac who likes to hurt women in the first place? These women are pretty much asking for it.
Even on porn sites like Kink.com, my understanding is that rapes happen all the time on the set. That’s not uncommon at all for BD/SM porn. A lot of rapes happen on the set of those sort of shoots.
The thing is, you are supposed to have safe words. You are supposed to say no. This ditzy bitch never once said no. In the world of BD/SM, that means the guy can carry on as long as he likes. Actually, in that crazy world, a lot of guys won’t even stop if you say no and safe words are routinely violated, so even saying no won’t be enough.
One more thing, male sexual sadists typically do not limit themselves to the bedroom. It’s not like he’s the nicest guy in the world, but he just likes to innocently pretend he’s Ted Bundy in the bedroom, but it’s all in good fun. It doesn’t work that way. Guys like to pretend they’re serial killers because they are basically maniacs who happen to be able to control themselves. I figure for every one maniac running around killing women, there’s probably 100 men who dream of it but have enough controls to not do it for a variety of reasons.
Male sexual sadists like to hurt women. And typically not just in bed. They tend to be pretty damn mean and cruel outside of bed. And many to most of the folks into this sort of thing don’t just keep it to the bedroom. Most are into 24/7 Dom/Sub relationships where is the Dominant or Master who treats her like shit 100% of the time and she is the Submissive, Sub or Slave who enjoys being treated like shit all the time because it’s fun and she’s nuts in the head.
It’s not uncommon at all for male sexual sadists who are active in the BD/SM community to “expand their interests” and graduate to abducting, raping, torturing and even killing women. Many men arrested for these crimes have a history of being active in that community or if not, this the type of sex they like to have with wives and girlfriends. So if your male boyfriend or husband likes to pretend to be a maniac in bed, I would consider that a major warning sign. The gay community has an extremely high rate of sexual sadism (37% of gay men are heavy into sexual sadism or sexual masochism). One theory of why there are so many gay serial killers (gays are 3% of the population and 35% of the serial killers) is because there is so much sexual sadism in the community.
That said, this guy is a complete asshole. Obviously. But guess what male sexual sadists are? They’re assholes! They’re supposed to be assholes! That’s what the whole kink is all about.
I say this is not rape. She never said no. If she doesn’t say no, there’s generally no rape unless you have your hands around her neck so she can’t talk. As far as non BD/SM, she probably needs to say no or indicate no in some other way.
Personally, I like it a bit rough and I always say to the women I have sex with, “If I ever do or say anything you don’t like, let me know, ok, and I will stop.” And with a lot of sex acts like spanking, I get her permission before I do it (Do you want me to spank you? Don’t you want me to do it harder?). I mean you really need to get her permission for everything.
If she says no, I quit doing it. I don’t go ahead and do it anyway. I don’t know what it would be like if she didn’t say no but she indicated that she wasn’t consenting because I don’t think that has ever happened to me. Every time I have sex with a woman, it’s because she wants to do it. Sometimes, I will try to do something and she will so, “No,” or “Don’t,” so I just don’t do it. Use common sense and you won’t have any problems.
Kinky woman invites kinky man over, and they have kinky sex.She declares it “RAPE”,posting her version of the event on FetLife (a Facebook for kinky people). And even though it’s pretty clear from her own description that it WASN’T rape,she gets so many “upvotes”,that it reaches their front page! (self.MensRights)
submitted 1 day ago by QUITcryingRAPE
[I’ve redacted her Fetlife S/name. But her post may still be on their front page, which they call “Kinky and Popular”, or K&P for short. My comments are in brackets.]
[Title] You stole my ability to consent
This is one of the hardest things I have ever written. I keep starting it and then deleting it. I have no idea if it will even make sense.
I am a nurse, I am the person who helps other people, I am not a victim. I honestly never imagined something like this would happen to me. I am having a lot of trouble coming to terms with what happened, I keep trying to tell myself maybe I am overreacting and what happened wasn’t the R word. Then another side of my brain kicks in and I blame myself, I allowed myself to be in that position, I didn’t stop it, I didn’t say no.
[This is worth emphasizing. She DIDN’T stop it, and she DIDN’T say “no”]
But in the back of my mind I know it was wrong and that what happened should never have happened.
So I guess I should start from the beginning…
So we talked on Fet [short for FetLife] for a few months about a whole variety of things. You seemed like a nice person. I was in a relationship at the time so I didn’t think any more of it.
Then after my relationship ended we started talking again. It moved to texting. We talked about different kinks. We both discussed how we were into knife play. I voiced that though I was into it I would never ever do it with someone I did not know or trust completely. It had taken me 2 years to even contemplate knife play with my ex. I have been traumatized by a knife in the past and if someone I did not trust were to use one on me it would not end well. You seemed to get that. We discussed choking, how I love it, how you like doing it. You often mentioned meeting up. Something always made me hesitate.
Then a few days ago you started messaging me and we talked on the phone. The day before my birthday you messaged me and we found we both had the day off. You suggested coming over to hang out, obviously there was flirting and the undertone of sex. I was hesitant, but for some reason I said yes. I thought well what is the worst that could happen? We hang out, maybe we don’t like each other and he leaves, maybe we have sex. Well I can handle that.
I have no idea if this is exactly what happened that day, everything is a bit like a puzzle that has been pulled apart. But this is what I remember.
So you arrived. We went to the lounge room and sat on the couch. A couple of words were exchanged. Then suddenly your hands were on my throat and you were choking me. Hard. Repeatedly. I was feeling incredibly scared and uneasy at this point. Where was the talking about limits, about consent, about what we wanted to happen. But I couldn’t say this, I could barely breathe, I was panicking. I was deep in the wilderness of sub space where I will not fight, I will not speak, I am pliable, even though my subconscious is screaming at me to run.
You grabbed me by the hair and pulled me up off the couch. You pushed me in front of you into the bedroom. You pushed me onto my stomach on the bed and pulled my cardigan up over my face so that I couldn’t see and my hands were pinned in front of me. You sat over me and put your arms around my throat in a headlock. I couldn’t breathe. I couldn’t move. I knew at this point I was in trouble, but still I didn’t stop anything.
After this you used a variety of implements on me, paddle, flogger, your hand, then suddenly I felt the prick of a knife on the back of my legs. I froze. I entered a zone of terror. When presented with a knife, I am immediately immobilized. I lay there, immobile, panicking, knowing I wanted it to stop but I didn’t say the words. I didn’t say stop. [Again, this seems pretty important. We haven’t heard his side, and for all we know, he thinks things are going swimmingly well.]
You grabbed me by the hair and flipped me onto my back. You pulled me to the side of the bed so my head hung over the edge. You shoved your cock into my mouth and repeatedly made me gag on it. You slapped my face. You shoved your fingers down my throat. You made me say thank you. [Not clear on how he made her say thank you, but it is clear that she can, in fact, speak words.]
You again flipped me onto my stomach and bound my hands behind me with tape. You flogged my back. You then pushed yourself inside me. You pushed a toy into my ass. I screamed. You pulled out. You put the toy inside me. You put yourself in my ass. You fucked me hard, over and over again, I screamed, my body took over and I came. [In the absence of being told otherwise, an orgasm on her part probably sent him what he thought was a clear message.] You continued to fuck me, I remember screaming and trying to pull away.
Suddenly you pulled out moved up towards my face grabbed me by the hair and then blew all over my face. Then you pushed my face into the bed. You got up and I thought it was over. Suddenly I felt the knife on my back.
I remember your words. “Don’t think I am finished with you yet, assumptions are the mother of all fuck ups”. I felt the knife tracing a path up and down my back. Then felt you lay it to rest between by shoulder blades. I heard you moving around getting dressed. I was holding back tears. You said “now I’m finished” and “How do you feel?”. I replied “I don’t know”. I just wanted it to end. You said you could come back tomorrow. Then you walked out of the room and left.
I lay on the bed, naked, shaking, unable to contemplate what just happened. I heard my phone beep. I picked it up and a friend had messaged me. I called them sobbing hysterically, unable to explain. I have no idea how long we were on the phone for. I remember him telling me to breathe, not to think, to just focus on the breathing.
Slowly, so very slowly the sobs began to lessen. Then all I could see were the toys strewn everywhere, the marks on the bed, the wetness all over me. I felt dirty, violated. I remember telling him I had to shower, I had to get clean. I hung up, I threw my blanket in the washing machine and cleared all the toys up. I got into the shower and scrubbed myself raw.
I called my friend after the shower. He didn’t know what to say. He suggested I talk to someone else who was more experienced in the scene. I messaged someone on my Fet friends list that I thought may be able to help. He immediately told me to call his partner. I did. These wonderful people ended up coming over. I was just a stranger from Fet, but they came because they knew I needed it. This re-established my faith in humanity that there are decent people in this world.
There followed a night of uber sweet tea, hugs, amazing advice and reassurance and then a blur of police and doctors and tests as the clock ticked over into my 27th year on this earth. I came home to an empty house, covered in forensic dust with multiple items missing. I felt terrified that you may come back. That fear still hasn’t gone away. I wish you didn’t know where I lived
I still keep telling myself that maybe this is my fault. I should have said no, I should have stopped it. I shouldn’t have invited him over. This feeling has not been helped by a police officer telling me that I was on a kink site and what did I expect would happen. That the toys belonged to me, so what did I think would happen. I feel like I can’t take it further because my sexual history will be brought into it and I will be judged. I feel ashamed because I came.
But I have slowly come to realize that I was unable to say no. [So the man should be a mind-reader?] From the point you choked me, to you bringing out the knife, I was unable to say no. [So the man should go to prison because of your inability to use words properly?] I was frozen by fear and I was trapped in subspace.
I could no more have stopped you than I could have jumped into outer space. [Hmmm. Saying the word “stop”, or jumping into outer space. Yup, both equally unfathomable tasks.] You never asked me my limits or what I wanted to happen, you never checked in with me, you knew I would not use knives with you, but you used them anyway, you put things inside me without permission, you left at the end with no after care. [So, let me get this straight. A HUG would have suddenly turned this “rape” into the start of a beautiful relationship?]
In doing all these things you STOLE my ability to consent. You RAPED me. You have changed me in ways I can’t even explain. [Allow me to explain. It’s called growing up, and learning that as an adult, you are sometimes called upon to use your words, rather than blaming others for not knowing what you want and don’t want.]
So I guess I just needed to verbalize how I was feeling/thinking. I hope this person never again does this to someone. I hope I will get through it in time, or I will get better at not thinking about it. For now you have taken a great many things away from me.
I also want to say a big thank you to the amazing people who went above and beyond over the last couple of days to provide love and support and advice.
Update 1: Thank you for all the love and support from everyone reading this post. I honestly never expected it and it has quite overwhelmed me. You have all helped me more than I can say
Update 2: To all those concerned yes I will be going to counseling and I have had/will have the necessary tests done.
Update 3: The police officer who was such an ass was a female, not that gender should be relevant. I did report it, however they seemed to think that I was misinterpreting what she said. I really wish that there was some sort of education for officers these days regarding BDSM and consent. It might make more people willing to speak up if they didn’t fear facing judgement and ignorance.
[Yeah, thankfully, the cops used some common sense for once, and a man who may well have been innocent, did not have to be arrested and go to jail because a woman forgot how to tell him to “STOP”, and decides, after-the-fact, that she had been raped. Now, the fact that one woman can mistake this unfortunate series of events for a horrible sex crime is hardly newsworthy.]
[But the fact that her story gets enough “likes” to propel it to the front page of a major website, and an endless list of comments below it, all of them supportive, in a community that supposedly understands and accepts the rules of kinky sex, which SHE clearly violated, is proof-positive that we are NOT living in a “Rape Culture”, but in fact, we are living in whatever the polar opposite of “Rape Culture” would be.]