Category Archives: Roma

A Dark and Ominous Phoenix Rises from the Past

A Black Bird Rises in the West

My understanding is that in 1932, Jews were 1%* of the population of Germany. At that time, the Jews reportedly had 32%* of the wealth in the Germany.

The very next year, in 1933, Adolf Hitler of the Nazi Party was elected to rule German democracy. They quickly did away with that pesky democratic part of the state and imposed a dictatorship on a shocked but quite willing populace. This party had been trafficking in toxic anti-Semitism since its birth in German beer halls in the early 1920’s. Almost all of the leaders of this movement were very racist White men. All were White Supremacists and anti-Semites.

They preached ethnic ultranationalism and taking back the nation from the (((liberal and decadent cosmopolitan Establishment))) that had run Germany into the ground in the previous decade. It was time to take the country back from these (((liberals usurpers))) and make Germany great again. A vicious antisemitism was imposed very early on and quickly assumed savage and even homicidal proportions. Several years afterwards, those homicidal tendencies detonated into a full-blown genocidal project targeting not only Jews but also many other hated peoples such as Slavs and Gypsies. For four short years, this unstable and deranged party set the world on fire worse than it had ever been lit up. The fading remnants of that darkly incandescent blazing inferno leave traces that to reverberate among us to this day.

Of course I opposed (to put it very mildly) the Holocaust, the whole Nazi antisemitic project and the German/Japanese alliance in World War 2. It was as if a dual headed Satanic hydra had simulatenously risen in both the West and the East to menace all of mankind itself.

But then I look at that figure. Jews were 1% of the population and they controlled 32% of the wealth in a nation with an increasingly immiserated, disenfranchised and enraged majority.

I look at that figure. 1% of the population controlled 32% of the wealth. And I think, “You know what? There’s not too many countries in the world where people would put up with that for very long. At some point, the majority is going to rise up and try to take back a lot of that money from that tiny group that is monopolizing it.

In Another Century in Another Land…

In 2016, Jews are 2% of the US population. At this time, they reportedly have 28% of the wealth of the nation in a nation with an increasingly, immiserated, disenfranchised and enraged majority.

That same year, a fascist-like movement was elected to rule American democracy. They planned to quickly do away with some of the pesky democratic part of the state and impose an authoritarian government on a shocked but significantly willing populace. This party had been trafficking in increasingly toxic racism since its rebirth in the orange groves of the nation in the early 1980’s. A significant number of the leaders of this movement were quite racist White men. A few were White Supremacists and antisemites.

This movement preached an increasingly ethnic form of hyper-nationalism and taking back the nation from the (((liberal and decadent cosmopolitan Establishment))) that had been running America for most of the previous two decades. It was time to take the country back from these (((liberal usurpers))) and make America great again. A vicious racism loomed very early on. No one knew if this unstable and deranged party would set the world on fire in the next four years.

Let’s look at these two paragraphs again.

In 1932, Jews were 1% of the German population. At this time, they reportedly had  32% of the wealth of a nation with an increasingly immiserated, disenfranchised and enraged majority.

In 2016, Jews are 2% of the US population. At this time, they reportedly have 28% of the wealth of a nation with an increasingly, immiserated, disenfranchised and enraged majority.

I suppose my position would be that if the Jews, 2% of America, really do have 28% of my country’s wealth, I would say that not many countries in the world would put up with that for very long. I would also say that being 2% of the country and having 28% of the wealth is definitely not good for the Jews. Of course I don’t always support what is good for the Jews (Why should I?) but in this case, I definitely would, out of worry, fear, alarm and compassion for my fellow man alone.

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Filed under Anti-Semitism, East Indians, Economics, Ethnic Nationalism, Europe, European, Fascism, Germany, History, Jews, Liberalism, Modern, National Socialism, Nationalism, Nazism, Political Science, Politics, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, Regional, Roma, The Jewish Question, Ultranationalism, USA, War, White Racism, World War 2

White Nationalists What’s Behind the Pretty-Faced Lies They Front with

But I think that White nationalism is such an extreme and brutal movement that even with the nicest of White nationalists, sooner or later, some really nasty racist talk is going to come out. There’s probably no way for them not to do it. It’s probably nearly a rule.

Let’s face it, the White nationalists are most racist of even all the racists. I did not know much about them when I first ran into them on the Net and I believed all their lies. They told me that they didn’t hate any non-Whites at all. Instead, they were lovers. They simply loved their own race and meant no ill will towards others. They simply wished to live with the people they loved. They told me that they were not racists at all really. Instead, they were cynical “race realists” who had reluctantly come around to basic differences between the races. They were not White Supremacists at all. They did not think Whites were superior to other races. They were careful to point out that White nationalists and White Supremacists were two different things and most White nationalists were not White Supremacists.

I soon realized that these were all lies. All White nationalists are White Supremacists. Sure not all White Supremacists are White nationalists, but nowadays a lot of them are. The longer you lurk around these White nationalist websites, the more you realize that these are exactly the same people that we used to call White Supremacists back in the day. Even on the mildest White nationalist sites like American Renaissance, there are references to folks we used to call White Supremacists, whom they see as heroes. David Duke is a hero; he was a KKK leader. There are frequent references to the 14 words. The links between the mild, polite face sites like Amren and the deeper and darker hardcore sites like Stormfront, VNN, and many of the Alt Right sites are much deeper than you think. They’re sort of all linked up together as far as I can see.

It’s not true that the only love their own race and don’t hate any non-Whites. They may well love their own race but they certainly also hate non-Whites. Not necessarily all non-Whites though, as Amren and Jared Taylor speak highly of Northeast Asians, and Taylor likes Jews and thinks Jews are White.

But they all have an extreme hatred for Blacks and a lot don’t like Hispanics much either. They don’t seem to care about Southeast Asians, South Asian Indians, or the Caucasoids of Central Asia. In fact, there was an Iranian forum at Stormfront for a while. They only dislike Turks, Arabs, etc. in that they are Muslims, otherwise they could care less about them.

Some of them are vicious Nordicists who hate all Mediterranean Whites, but that’s not the majority and it’s not even common on pro-Med Stormfront. Some of them are even sympathetic to American Indians. At any rate, they don’t have much hatred for them. They care next to nothing about Aborigines and they never talk about Polynesians, Micronesians, Melanesians or Papuans. Those people might as well not even exist.

The only people who hate Polynesians (sea niggers) and Aborigines (Lucys) are Australian White nationalists, and they are not common.

Some Canadian White nationalists hate Amerindians (prairie niggers), but there are not many White nationalists in Canada.

Latin American White nationalists don’t even hate Indians all that much, whom they regard as annoying and verbally violent at worst. As one said, “You give an Indian a six-pack and a handful of tortillas and he’s good for the night. That’s not so with Blacks.” White nationalists down south mostly hate Jews and Blacks. They also have a much more sensible view of who is White. Latin American White nationalists say that anyone who is at least 75-85% White is White in Latin America.

I do not know much about White nationalists in Europe except that they are very worried about Muslims and the one thing many of them hate more than anything else is Gypsies. This is especially true in Eastern Europe. Gypsies are seen as the “thieving niggers” of Europe.

What seems to tie all of the White nationalists together seems to be a hatred for Blacks.

After that, I would say probably a hatred of Jews. Blacks first, then Jews. They barely care about much of anyone other than that. But yeah, they’re haters all right. In fact, I had bought their line that they hated no one and I was stunned at some of the wild hateful statements they started making after a while. I almost fell out of my chair. The civil White nationalist type is mostly a front. There’s pretty much a Stormfronter behind most of those masks.

We’re not racists, we’re just race realists. This is another one of their lines. Well it’s not true. And anyway, almost all race realists are racists, and often nasty ones at that. Nonracist race realists exist, but they are not common and they seem to be swimming against a tide.

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Filed under Aborigines, Amerindians, Asians, Australia, Blacks, Canada, East Indians, Europe, Iranians, Jews, Latin America, Near Easterners, North America, Northeast Asians, Oceanians, Papuans, Race Realism, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, Regional, Roma, SE Asians, South Asians, USA, White Nationalism, White Racism, Whites

Everyone Can Spare a Little Time

Jason Y writes:

Isn’t if funny that people with such a short life span, still had time to hate Jews and Gypsies.

Oh Jason! Please!

No matter how busy anyone is, there’s always time to hate Gypsies! No one, I mean no one, is too busy to hate Gypsies!

Dude, let me tell you something. No matter how busy, happy, preoccupied, or lost in fun I am, I always set aside at least a few minutes of every day to hate Gypsies.

I mean come on. It’s the least you can do, man.

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Filed under Humor, Racism, Roma

Report from Nigeria

Crime and especially violent crime is sky-high in most Sub Saharan African countries by both self-report from those who live there, from traveler reports (you can go read many reports from travelers to Africa reporting frightening out of control crime), from official government reports (many of those countries have traveler warnings issued by the state department for very high crime rates, and also by simple observation.

We dealt a lot with Nigerian scammers, and they were almost never arrested and never went to prison. Whole Internet cafes are taken over by scammers. One Nigerian man who worked with us said the average cafe in Lagos contained 90% scammer criminals in the daytime and late at night. Only 10% of people there during normal working hours were noncriminals. Cafe scammers were usually young, but there were older ones too. Our Nigerian contact was stunned to see a former newscaster for a large Lagos TV station sitting in there trying to scam Americans.

Authorities refused to do anything about it. Part of the problem with the scamming is that the society is so depraved that the police do not even feel that scamming is a crime or should be against the law. They refuse to arrest scammers because the cops have the sociopathic type mindset that scamming victims deserve to be fleeced for being stupid. We were told that most cops in Nigeria and Ghana were criminals themselves. In Accra, cops regularly set up roadblocks and shake down every motorist trying to get by. You have to bribe them to keep going on the road.

We had reports that said most of the scammers had excellent relations with their families, including their parents. Their parents knew that their sons were criminals, but they did not care and they actually considered this a great way to make money. That’s how depraved and evil even the so-called normal people are.

Law enforcement is nearly nonexistent in many of these lands, so it appears that many to most crimes are not even reported. This means the crime rate may be far higher than what is reported. Apparently most crimes in the region go unsolved, so criminals feel they have a sense of impunity. In Lagos, purse-snatchers and pickpockets are sometimes apprehended in the act by people in the nearby crowds. A mob captures the thief and abuses him in public on the street. In many cases, the thief is murdered by lynch mob justice right there on the street. The thieves are frequently set on fire and burned to death in public. Sure the cops don’t enforce the law, but vigilantes and mobs just might.

Most of the dating sites have been destroyed by Nigerian criminals. We ran a Yahoo group to fight dating scammers. Many Nigerians came to the group saying that they were regular Nigerians who were outraged by the scammers who were giving the nation a bad reputation. They did not seem like typical scammers. They cooperated with us for a while, but after some time, ~95% of them tried to steal from us and were thrown out of the group.

Also the Nigerian men were all harassing the White women in the group on chat. They were always asking to cam chat with the women. The women would turn on their cams to see the Nigerian, and the Nigerian would have his dick out jerking off at the women. Some of the women in our group were traumatized by that, and after a while, we started throwing them out for jerking off at the women. Almost all of them jerked off at our women on cam.

Also a lot of the men were trying to get a Western, preferably White, wife. We called them “marriage scammers,” and after a while, we started throwing them all out too.

We received many reports from women who had married Nigerian men and got them into the US or Canada. The men marry the women for a VISA. Almost 100% of the men were criminals who refused to work and lived off the women. They all habitually cheated on their wives, and most of them stayed home all day chatting with women on the Net to get new lovers or else running scams and other crimes from the computer.

These men were also domineering, abusive and severely restricted their wives’ freedom.

Apparently this is how marriage works in ultra-patriarchal Nigeria. A number of West African women we got to know said the place was crap because women were treated like dirt in the region by West African men. One of the women who told us this was from Sierra Leone, so this indicates the problem is regional. The Sierre Leone woman was later thrown out when she tried to steal from us.

Many of the Net auction sites were also ruined by Nigerians and Gypsies. The online housing rental business was seriously ruined. Almost anyone offering to sell anything from West Africa on the Net (West Africans are often selling things like gold on the Net) is a criminal. There was a large case recently where Nigerians in Cameroon ripped off many bug collectors by offering to sell rare beetles which are much sought after by collectors. They stole from all the collectors.

One man with an online store said he had 10,000 buy attempts from Nigeria, and 100% were fraudulent, all using stolen credit cards. Many online retailers ban all IP’s from Nigeria from their stores and do not accept any credit card transactions from a Nigerian IP because it is almost always using a stolen credit card. Finally major credit card companies banned the use of their cards to Nigerians. Nigerians cannot get a number of major credit cards due to their nationality. Later some other West African nations were also banned by major credit cards. Ghanians complained that they could not get credit cards either.

We have reports that many of the ships coming into Nigerian harbors are full of stolen goods, possibly up to 50% of all ship imports. Many non-contraband items not stolen are offloaded at the docks and then promptly stolen either at the dock or en route to wherever they are taken to be retailed.

We got to know some Nigerians who had money, and they told us that they ran off generators. Nigeria is extremely oil rich, but the power goes out constantly in Lagos. The reason is because the people who run the power companies are criminals, and they steal most of the oil that is meant to power the city to sell it on the black market. This is what our Nigerian informants told us.

An anti-fraud commission was set up in Nigeria, and they had to head it with a Muslim from the north. The position went empty for a long time because they literally could not find anyone in the Nigerian government who was not a criminal! Finally they found that one man, and he was the only noncriminal official in the government. He had a hard time prosecuting cases because he received constant threats from criminals and government officials who were either criminals themselves or were in league with organized crime.

The US FBI closed down its Nigerian offices where it had been working with the Nigerian government on organized crime due to “complete lack of cooperation from the Nigerian government.” In other words, most everyone in the government was a criminal and was also in with the organized crime gangs.

We got to know some Nigerians when some people in the group made friends with them. We were told that all Nigerians do not trust anyone at all and they all worry that anyone, including their own friends, might rip them off at any time.

Major oil companies had offices in Nigeria to house Western employees. They put up huge electric fences with barbed wire to keep the criminals out. Also they put in strict rules to try to keep employees from going out into society because it was too dangerous.

Nigerian roads are chaotic and horrible and there are terrible accidents causing injury and death all the time. Typically there is a horrible accident with injuries and death. Other motorists along the road will pull over, and a crowd will descend on the wreckage to rob the wounded. They also steal anything they can from the dead.

Human beings are regularly kidnapped by witch doctors in Nigeria where they sacrificed via ritual murder in order to cast magic spells. The witch doctors also chop the victims up after they die and use the various body organs in magic spells. There is a high demand for these body parts among witch doctors.

We got to know some Westerners who went to Lagos. One woman told us that as soon as she got off the plane, she went to the restroom, and a Nigerian woman immediately tried to steal from her! She had barely been in the country 10 minutes before someone tried to rob her. She said there were also reports that the guards and people checking your bags were thieves. She said when the plane landed you could smell the overwhelming smell of rotting garbage. That is the smell of Lagos, the overwhelming, retching smell of rotting garbage, she told us.

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Filed under Africa, Corruption, Crime, Culture, Government, Law enforcement, Nigeria, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Roma, Scams, West Africa, Whites, Women

Gypsies Are 5 for 5 with Me

Yes, I have met four Gypsies so far, all from Romania.

They all tried to steal from me. That’s 4 for 4.

Then I met another one. I am not sure where she was from. I think maybe she was from Hell.

She had just gotten out of jail. Ok, now it’s 5 for 5.

Here in the US, they seem to be emulating the very worst of Black ghetto culture. All five of them spoke in this very ghetto/barrio type wigger accent and the one who just got out of jail had one of the sleaziest, scummiest ghetto accents I have ever heard.

I used to have all these people coming to my blog screaming at me and calling me racist for my attitude towards Gypsies. They said I needed to keep meeting more of them because “they weren’t all like that.”

You know what? Sometimes you just need to cut your losses. Life is an odds game. Gypsies are matches. I don’t like to play with matches. You play with matches long enough, pretty soon you will get burned or set something on fire.

Somebody really needs to tell me why I need to keep meeting these people. I figure I am done with them. They showed me what they are like, and I am through with Gypsies.

What am I supposed to do? Keep meeting Gypsies until I run into the one decent one? How many lousy, crooked Gypsies will I have to go through before I meet the one decent one?

So anyway I am racist against Gypsies. I am practicing aversive racism against them. Me here, Gypsies over there. I want to get a restraining order to make all Gypsies stay 50 feet away from me at all times. Over there, Gypsies. See those people? Go steal from them, not me, ok?

5 for 5 is pretty bad. People complain about US Blacks, but Blacks are way better than Gypsies. Many Black folks are very good people. It’s not hard to find decent Blacks at all. Sure, a lot of them are no good, but it’s not like 95% or 98%. I don’t know what the percentage of lousy ones is, but I doubt if it is even over 50%. I would say probably a majority of US Blacks are “good enough” or “decent enough” people. That is, they aren’t out and out scumbags. There must be tens of millions of decent Black people in the US! And if that is true, how can you justify hating them? It doesn’t seem right.

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Filed under East Indians, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, Roma, South Asians

Why I Don’t Like Nigerians

We run a site on Yahoo called Antiscammers. And we dealt with Nigerian scammers on there all day long, every single day. People told us that you would walk into a cafe in Nigeria and there would be 40 people sitting at computers, and 37 of them would be sitting there all day trying to steal from Americans. The number of Nigerians who are full-time Internet scammers would absolutely amaze you.

Also we were told that in Nigerian society, there was nothing wrong with being an Internet scammer. Internet scammers were heroes. In fact, they told us that most everyone was some sort of a criminal over there. You had to watch your back all the time because even your friends and lovers would try to rip you off if you turned your back.

Everyone in the government is a criminal and a thief. They finally found one guy who wasn’t a criminal (How did they find him?) and they were so shocked that he wasn’t a criminal that they put him in charge of the Nigerian Antifraud Unit. He had his hands full, but he hardly prosecuted any cases because the cops were all corrupt too and taking bribes, and they kept letting everyone off the hook. Also he couldn’t really go after any government people because he would have to lock up the whole government.

Anyway, the average people know that all the government is nothing but criminals, all the cops are crooks, and half the people on their block are crooks, so a lot of them just think, “Why shouldn’t I be a crook too?”

Scamming over there is not something a few people do. It’s a way of life practiced by 100,000’s or even millions of Nigerians. Basically the whole country runs on crime. There are so many criminals in Nigeria that there are too many for the country, so they are branching out and moving all over the world to set up shop in new countries where they start doing crimes. So now there are Nigerian crime gangs in most countries. The cops did inspections at the port in Nairobi once, and most of the ships coming in were loaded with stolen property. Plus a lot of the stuff that was legit would be ripped off at the dock or later on.

We dealt with countless Nigerian crooks all the time.

These “good Nigerians” kept trying to join the group, and we would not let them in. Finally we started letting them in. They were “concerned and wanted to fight the scammers.” We let them in, and they ruined the group. We had a lot of women in our group, and we had cam sessions all the time.

Every one of those Nigerian guys would get on cams with the women in our group and whip out their dicks right away and start jacking at the women. It really freaked out a lot of the women, and we had to ban a lot of them just for being perverts. Finally we found out that all the men were “wife scammers.” They were trying to scam a foreign wife from the West. It pretty much boiled down to pay me a lot of money to get me out of her and marry you.

We heard about a number of women who married Nigerians here in the US. All White women. They only marry White women. None of the men worked. They all lived off the women while the women worked. They stayed home all day and spent all day on the Net mostly chasing other women. They were all notorious cheaters, and they cheated on their wives constantly. They were always broke and always had their hands out. They were also very mean, cruel and controlling and, they would not allow the women any freedoms at all to do anything. In a number of cases, they set up shop here in the US, and they started running their usual scams again, this time from the US. All of these marriages failed and were disasters.

In addition to wife scamming, we caught a lot of the Nigerians engaging in other types of scamming. As soon as they got in the group, they started asking for money all the time for this, that and whatever. A lot of them started having “disasters,” home burned down, hospital bills, whatever.

Finally we threw almost all the Nigerians out of the group because frankly every single one that joined was either a scumbag or a criminal. This caused a big blowup in the group where we got accused of being “racist.” Then we got really racist, I mean like no kidding real deal discriminatory racist, and we made up a new group rule, “No Africans allowed in the group.” So we sort of hung up a Segregation Era Jim Crow sign in front of the group.

I went on some forums, and apparently almost 100% of the Nigerians who are on the Net buying stuff with credit cards are criminals. One online retailer said he had 10,000 credit card purchase attempts by Nigerians and I think all except one were with stolen cards. He said a lot of online retailers were turning Jim Crow and having “No Nigerians” and “No purchases by Nigerians allowed” policies. A lot of online retailers were blocking whole IP blocks out of Nigeria. They were banning the whole country from the site. Finally VISA and Mastercard both banned Nigeria and some other West African countries from using their cards because there was so much stolen credit card crime going on.

Nigerians and Gypsies, both, destroyed a number of Internet auction sites. The sites got taken over by Gypsies and Nigerians running fake auctions, and everyone else just left the site. They also got heavily involved in the online rentals business and seriously trashed that one too. And the banks started getting upset at them too because the Nigerians were getting into so many people’s accounts and draining them – the Nigerians would convince people to give them access to their accounts, and then the Nigerians would drain the accounts.

The scams that the Nigerians ran were widely varied and changed almost by the day. They were often quite clever, and it was easy to see how some good, trusting person could be sucked into one of these things.

Almost all of the dating sites, at least the free ones, have been destroyed by Nigerians. If you go onto one of those sites now, no real woman will ever contact you, but a bunch of really beautiful fake women will contact you saying all these wonderful things.

None of these are real women. Instead they are all Nigerian males using model pics and pretending to be women. The fake women befriend men, and then somehow the fake women get the men to send money to them. So the guys send money to the fake women for plane tickets or whatever. It turns out the woman doesn’t even exist, she’s just a fake.

There are also a vast number of fake men on there often preying on older, middle aged, lonely women who are often fat and not very pretty. These are good women looking for a good man. The Nigerians use pics of very good-looking men and then make profiles turning them into dream men with good jobs, kids, big houses and whatnot. They often shower the women with gifts like flowers, candy, etc. All of the gifts are paid with stolen credit cards. Somehow they get these women to send them money, and they steal however much they can steal.

Just about anything for sale on the Net out of West Africa is a scam. Just about any service offered on the Net out of West Africa is a scam.

I had so many bad experiences with these people that I am done with them. Not only that, but we let a bunch of Nigerian noncriminals into our group and 98% of them acted awful right away, wife-scamming, begging money, jerking off at the women, etc.

And those were the supposedly good, law-abiding citizens.

I have met a couple of Nigerian PA’s here in the US, both very bright. They were good people, but they both told me that their country was a shithole. One guy invested in a medical clinic in Nigeria. He left the country for a year, and he went back and his partner had liquidated the place, torn it down, and ran off with hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I realize that a few Nigerians are good, but I have had enough bad experiences with these people for 50 lifetimes, and I don’t have the time to sort through 100 Nigerians to find 2-3 good ones. I have better things to do. Since my experience, I have been avoiding everyone from that land; in fact, I have been avoiding everyone from West Africa in general because I did some research and I found out that the countries around Nigeria are just about as bad as Nigeria.

I figure 50% of population of Nairobi wakes up every morning and thinks, “Who can I rip off today?”

As far as I am concerned, these people appear to be some sort of a criminal race. How they got that way I have no idea, but I am done with them for this lifetime.

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Filed under Africa, Blacks, Corruption, Crime, Culture, East Indians, Government, Nigeria, Nigerians, Organized Crime, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Roma, Scams, Sociology, South Asians, West Africa

Gypsies in Romania

This is an excellent video about Gypsies in Romania, narrated by a young Romanian man who absolutely hates Gypsies, as do most Romanians. A number of commenters below chime in from various countries in the region to report that everything the narrator says about Gypsies is true based on their experience.

Gypsies in Romania are somehow getting ahold of some serious money, apparently mostly through crime, scams and various schemes. Almost no Gypsies go to school, even though there are slots allotted to them. And when they do go to school, they almost always do very poorly. Despite having satellite dishes, luxury cars and gold chains, they live in the most sickening hovels which they refuse to fix up. They even shit in the open just like people in India since they often don’t bother to build a toilet in their homes.

Their homes quickly become horribly overcrowded with all of their relatives and hangers-on. They start having sex at age 12-14 and the females spend most of their lives pumping out one baby after another. They openly refuse to work (85% are unemployed) and instead choose to live off the welfare system, beg, steal, con or run various scams. Many Gypsies for some reason never learn to speak, read or write Romanian properly. They send their children off at a very early age to beg for a living. The adults then collect the wages that the children earn from begging, which can be a considerable sum.

Many Romanian Gypsies are now migrating to other parts of the EU because those countries are richer and there is more to steal. In France, they gave the Gypsies $1000 to take off and start a new life. They immediately blew the money and then they were back in France. In other cases, the Gypsies were given a pig to start a farm. The Gypsies quickly killed the pig and then they were right back in France. Gypsies often squat in legitimate buildings. No matter what kind of a building it was beforehand, the Gypsies inevitably trash the place.

Perhaps the most disturbing revelation of all was when the narrator discussed on Gypsy Organized Crime steals houses from Romanians with the assistance of the Attorney General, the judges, the cops and all of the other authorities, all paid off with Gypsy stolen wealth. The Gypsies come into town and try force residents to leave by harassing them, throwing things at them, shitting on their doorstep, urinating on their walls, vandalizing their place, threatening them, etc.

They try to get the residents to sell the place for, say, 5% of the value of the home. Somehow the Gypsies are able, and I am not sure how, to get the residents to leave. Then they buy the home at 5% of the value and sell it at 100% of the value. Many crimes are committed along the way, and the bribed authorities let the Gypsies get away with all of it. I have heard that in Hungary, 85% of property crime (theft) is the result of Gypsies. The way that Gypsy Organized Crime is allowed to run amok in Romania is truly depressing and it suggests that with the return of capitalism, Romania has turned into a Third World nation. Congratulations, revolutionaries.

You will see many similarities between Gypsies and US ghetto Blacks, in fact, it is said that Gypsies are “the thieving ghetto Blacks of Europe.” However I dare say that Gypsies are vastly worse than Black people in the US. I make that comparison because it is true that Black people cause quite a few problems in my country. However, this is nothing compared to an overt criminal culture that the Gypsies lead.

Many Black people in the US are not dedicated to living a career criminal existence. Blacks do not ordinarily destroy all their homes and neighborhoods, nor do they shit in the streets and fields. Many to most Blacks are in school, at least until age 14-16 or so. Quite a few Blacks do well in school, and many go on to college, where quite a few even graduate and go off to work in various professions and good jobs. Blacks have not yet formed organized crime gangs that have paid off cops, DA’s, judges and other authorities. Blacks do not send their children out to beg in the streets all day and then live off the earnings.

Many Black people are in fact employed; indeed, most are employed. Black people in the US speak English well and generally learn to read and write it at least passably. Black criminal gangs do not, thank God, force legitimate homeowners to move so they can buy the homes at 5% of value, committing many crimes along the way. While some Blacks have many children, the Black fertility rate in the US is not particularly high. Blacks are not responsible for 85% of the theft in the US. There is a vast Black middle class and even a small upper class that is relatively to highly well-behaved and is far removed from ghetto culture.

It’s hard to say what to do with Gypsies. It’s anti-human to kill them, although that is frequently proposed. Hitler already tried that. Many countries such as France are throwing them out of the country (they are immigrants after all). This is a great idea; however, every time a country does this, the Left screams and hollers about racism. In fact, anytime anyone criticizes the deplorable behavior of the Gypsies, they are called racists. Considering how horrific Gypsies act, it’s hardly racism to dislike them. It would simply be a normal reaction. At the end of the day, there really is nothing to be done with these people who are obviously a criminal race and a plague upon nations.

One wonders how or why Gypsies have adopted this parasitic and criminal lifestyle. It appears to be cultural, but the roots of this hostile and anti-human culture are uncertain. They came from India 1000 years ago, but what this explains is unknown. One thing is for certain is that it is not due to their genes.

It is true that some small number of Gypsies are well behaved and believe it or not are not even criminals. A few have gone to college and gotten university degrees. There are even Gypsy university professors. These good actors should not be forced to bear the brunt of racist hatred against the Gypsy people, however well deserved it might be, as they are acting as responsible citizens.

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Two New Caucasian Races Created

The Races of Man post is still being updated. Recently, I spit out the Hunza and Tajik from the West Asian race and created two new races based on them. The relevant paper is here.

The first grouping includes the Hunza of the Karokorams, the Bartangi of the Pamirs and the Roma or Gypsies of Europe. So we can see that the Roma have an origin in the Himalayas-Pamir region of far northern Pakistan and Tajikistan. The same paper points out a close relationship with the Jatt caste of India and Pakistan, which includes many Punjabis, and the Roma.

The second grouping is made of Tajiks, the Shugnan of the Pamirs, the Arabs of Bukhara, and three groups from India – the Kallar of Kerala, the Sourashtran of Tamil Nadu, and the Yadhava of various places.

This is all in the general Himalayan- Pamir – Karokoram – Kashmir region, an area of towering peaks and isolated valleys. A high degree of genetic differentiation is logical here.

From the paper:

The Sinte Romani, or Gypsies, group with the Hunza and Bartangi (from the Pamir region of Central Asia) populations in our tree. This finding is primarily due to the M124 haplotype, which is present at high frequency in all three populations. M124 is not found in Eastern Europe (17),

Cluster VI includes the Sinte Romani (Gypsies), Hunza (a northern Pakistani population speaking a divergent language, Burushaski), and Bartangi (Pamir region) populations. Cluster VII includes the Indian populations (Kallar, Sourashtran, and Yadhava), as well as those Central Asian populations closest to them geographically (Tajik/Dushanbe, Shugnan, Tajik/Samarkand, and Arab/Bukhara).

An international collaboration led by Manir Ali of the Leeds Institute of Molecular Medicine, first identified the ‘Jatt’ mutation in one of four Pakistani families. Further study amongst Roma populations in Europe showed that the same mutation accounted for nearly half of all cases of PCG [Primary congenital glaucoma] in that community. Manir Ali’s research also confirms the widely accepted view that the Roma originated from the Jatt clan of Northern India and Pakistan and not from Eastern Europe as previously believed.

The new lineup looks like this:

General Caucasian Major Race***

European-Iranian Race (Most European – Caucasus – Armenian – Jewish – Turk – Kurd – Iranian – Jordanian – Iraqi – Assyrian – Druze – Lebanese – Georgian – Caspian – Palestinian)

Basque Race (Basque)

Norwegian-Swedish Saami Race*** (Norwegian Saami – Swedish Saami)

Finnish Saami Race** (Finnish Saami)

Sardinian Race** (Sardinian)

Kuwaiti Race* (Kuwaiti)

Arabian Race (Saudi – Yemeni – Bedouin)*

West Asian Race (Pashtun – Brahui – Balochi – Makrani – Sindhi )

Tajik Race (Tajik – Bukhara Arab – Shugnan – Kallar –  Sourashtran – Yadhava)

West Himalayan Race (Hunza – Bartangi – Roma)

Berber Race*** (Berber)

Egyptian Race (Egyptian)

North African Race (Moroccan – Libyan – Tunisian – Canarian)

Algerian Race (Algerian)

North Indian Race** (Punjabi – Central Indic – Punjabi Brahmin – Rajput – Vania Soni – Mumbai Brahmin – Jat – Kerala Brahmin – Koli)

Himalayan Race*** (Gurkha – Tharu – Ladakhi)

Karnet-Uttar Pradesh Brahmin Race*** (Karnet – Uttar Pradesh Brahmin)

South Indian Race** (Munda – Bhil – Maratha – Rajbanshi – Oraon – Parji – Kolami Naiki – Chenchu Reddi – Konda – Kolya – West Bengal Brahmin – Parsi – Gond)

Kerala Kadar Race*** (Kerala Kadar)

South Dravidian Race*** (Sinhalese – Lambada – Irula – Izhava – Kurumba – Nayar – Toda – Kota – Malayaraya – Tamil)

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Filed under Anthropology, Arabs, Asia, Central Asians, East Indians, Genetics, India, North Africans, Pakistan, Pakistanis, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Roma, South Asia, South Asians, Tajiks

More Hindutva Nuttiness

I am going to publish, in full, a recent comment by a Hindutva commenter. It’s about rejection of the Aryan Migration theory, but it’s also an excellent summary of Hindutva ideology as well. My comments at the end. The spelling was horrible in this comment, and the writing itself was poor. The comment required an extensive edit before it was published. My comments follow at the end.

I take it back a few hundred years, when the British first landed and invaded India, soon the British where killing, murdering and looting India. They destroyed Indian industries that competed with Europe, they created vast famines that starved millions, and they created the vast amount of poverty you see today. Vast canals were built which today is the leading cause of malaria – still water.

India before British occupation had more land under irrigation, was not poverty stricken and was quite wealthy across all castes. So the British not only having destroyed Indian society, wealth and structure, also destroyed native Indian schools, and replaced them with Taliban style English education.

People like Thomas Macaulay and others believed that White people where superior, just plain racism, in the same way Islamic Taliban thought they are superior, in the same way the Nazis thought they where, these people created and set up the educational system in India today, as well as the Congress party which was created and funded by the British to create a viable, western controlled, western centered political party called Congress.

At the same time the British created the vast slave networks from West Africa to North and Central America, created the slave code, and restricted and abused every slave and many slave generations after that, all the while doing it in the name of Jesus Christ, just like the Islamic Taliban in the name of Allah.

So these White people looted and abused virtually all parts of the world, be in China forcing opium onto the Chinese to open up markets, laying genocide on Indian people, enslaving the Africans, creating barbaric slave codes, where such cutting of ears and limbs to keep the slaves under control, the absolute destruction of South America and North American societies. The rape and plunder of Africa, all these highlight the intellectual thought and belief process of the White man.

The vast amount of wealth stolen from Asia, taking it from the richest area on earth to the poorest, and at the same time, Europe went from the poorest to the richest, again White people want you overlook that that DISTINCT relationship.

In Europe, after the slave empire of the Romans collapsed, Europe fell into the Dark Ages where the church forbade science, cleaning one self, restricted technology because through a shallow mindset all these where considered anti-Christian, such things as to wash, as to promote education, and science, it’s under this ideology that the White man has raised itself.

In Europe the elite classes had a more rigid class structure than anywhere else in the world, master and slave classes of Europe that contained the royals, the blue blood, knights, lords, and the peasant classes, the harsh and brutal treatment of the peasant classes lead to massive riots and revolts against the oppressive regime of the elite.

During the 17-19th centuries, Europe waged a religious and trade war against the heathens who did not believe in Christ, the same Christ that was murdered and then used a promotional tool to inflict more misery on the rest of the world.

The British, the Portuguese, the French, the Taliban Europeans, embarked on a religious war that would take over the world, such as slavery, opium wars, the Spanish Inquisition, the Goa Inquisition, on and on, the slave codes, the slave and master relationship in America that lasted 300 years, the same people that stole the wealth from India, the British, are the same ones talking about how poor India is, it’s this mindset we are dealing with.

So I ask again on what merit, on what grounds, on what morality, on what ethics, on what evidence we accept a racist White-centric view that Aryans invaded India, then it became the Aryans migrated, an now it’s a Aryan movement?

The jewel on the crown of Britain was the capture of India. Throughout history, the Greeks, the Romans, the Egyptians, the Persians (in the Avesta and Vedas, it mentions that the tribes of the Zoroastrians came from India and were banished from that land, not the other way round), the Chinese, have all asserted that India was the richest, most intellectual land on earth, with a very liberal society.

The Greek math and scientific knowledge was already known in India, many Greek philosophers would go to India to study the truth, the concept of numbers, binary code all came into being in India, Pythagoras theorem was already known in India, the Roman treasury was emptied every year with the giving of huge amounts of wealth to India in return for its produce, why didn’t the Romans just invade like they did with Europe?

So like I said I have many reason not to accept a White Nazi racist version of India, and I have more reason to support a Hindutva idea of India.

So it’s under this environment of White racist rule that we get the Aryan theory, a perfect theory from a racist, prejudicial mindset, its no different from an Islamic Taliban mindset, and those people who label Hindutva as militant, or right wing, are the same ones that claim slavery, opium wars, genocide of America, and India was a movement to bring civilization, ironic, or just a mindset of racism itself?

No one can dispute the European imperial campaigns of Asia and the known world, no one.

So no one can deny that Europe had a biased, racist, prejudicial position in the way it dealt with matters outside of Europe? It’s hardly big stop to make, the people that invaded the rest of the world with brutal genocide would also defame and humiliate the people in textbooks, just like the way Jews were belittled and ridiculed by most of the European elite. So it’s under this era, it’s by these people that we get Aryan theory.

Which was a direct self defense mechanism to suggest that India, the richest, most advanced land on earth, far superior than Europe, was in fact somehow related to the conquering Whites. Can you imagine the white Europeans from cold climates, with the idea that they are the people from a great civilization, only to realise that India and Indians are far superior, and that European history actually derives from Indians?

That is something that Whites could never accept, the White barbaric Christian Taliban style mindset, which created such genocidal action across the world, such as slavery, war in China, India, Africa, stolen Australian children, under this CV, the White majority and mentality was something they could not accept.

Remember people, India has never asserted that it was Indians who went out of India, even though the evidence proves this, yet the white Europeans have since the 18th century asserted this idea over and over again, till the point that Nazi Hitler rose, and that racist ideology broke Europe, many say that was a fight for freedom but in reality it was a fight between European dictators who for the past 300 years had brought misery and genocide to the rest of the world.

So the same people that created such misery and poverty are now pushing the Aryan theory, now tell me, does it seem like the people who would create such a story, have a biased, racist, prejudicial view? From this assertion is it a greater step to believe that the Nazis who killed the Jews didn’t humiliate the Jews further in textbooks? Is this to hard to believe, or is it another Hindutva lie, because the history of White racists and the history of Hindutva is the same, right?

As you clearly know, that campaigns of Hindutva enslaved Africa, China, and Europe, the Hindutva armies landed in London, slaughtered many people, and then imposed an Indian language on the elite…I’m sure you all remember that!

So it’s from this history that Aryan theory comes from, is it any wonder that such a story was conducted to fill in the gaps white European history?

To me…no…it fits the actions of the people at hand.

So a logical person, free from bias, can see the racist, intolerant, prejudicial view of the White Europeans, however this illogical viewpoint for many becomes the starting point of most debates, you see White people want to set up the rules in which such a debate takes place, so they purposely omit the chapters of European brutality in India, China, Kenya, etc, because they know that these actions then underline the racist, illiterate viewpoint of Aryan theory.

Abut the degradation of the caste system, now tell me, which society remains the same when all levels of the society have been ravaged, in other words, when the British looted India, did they only loot the rich or the poor as well?

Did the vast amounts of wealth stolen from India contribute to the massive poverty in India today? According to all independent accounts, the answer is a massive yes, but according to the West, it was known as civilization. Again, most of you have the intelligence to work out the difference.

Just like Nazis humiliated the Jews, today the British do the same, it was through the 200 years of robbing that India is poor today, prior to the British, the Indian education was universal for all castes, after the British only lavished on the high elite classes, like I said, who are you to believe, the Whites with the 500 years of absolute slavery and genocide or India with no history of religious conquest?

Remember it wasn’t India that claimed the Earth was made in 6 days, or the universe with an age of 6000 years, however in India the claims they made are more in line with modern science that anything Christianity offered.

It was under this intellectual shock to the White system that India was the home of civilizations, of European history, of language, of math, etc. that the West invested huge amounts of wealth in creating vast Nazi style English schools to further promote that idea to the middles classes of India.

In the same way millions of Germans where brainwashed with Nazi ideology, like I said, did the Europeans have an agenda in India, or where they just purely there for the honorable deeds of stealing wealth and land? Think about it.

Throughout Greek, Persian and Roman history, they all mention one land, that’s India.

The source of all math – of numbers, of algebra, of Pythagoras theorem – the first land to have vast cities across many miles, the oldest universities, the richest trade routes, the oldest scriptures, a culture that has existed in spite of many foreign attacks, even when the rest of the world fell to Christianity and Islam, India even after being ravaged yet still retains its Vedic culture, you cannot convert Indians as they know the spiritual truth.

Why did Europe have a passage to India? Because it was poor? Why did Europeans all send ships to find a passage to India, after the central route was taken by Christianity’s Islamic sister?

Why are the West Indies named Indies? Why are the Native Americans called Indians? It shows the extent to which the Europeans searched for India, that in mistake they named the West Indies and Americans were named Indians.

So with little effort we can see that Europeans from the Dark Ages have been searching for wealth and seeking treasure abroad, to the point in mistakenly calling other lands and people Indians, with little effort we can see the racist and intolerant actions of the West and Christianity in general. It’s under this thought process that we live today; it’s under these intellectual opinions that we get Aryan theory.

Just look today at Europe, it cannot sustain itself without immigration, again shows the roots of a young, shallow society, as the vast amount of stolen slave and trade wealth is now running out, places like Asia, which where the richest land on earth before the west looted it, are now easily returning back to becoming the richest economies in the world.

Asia has the biggest and largest populations, which is a key indicator of long sustained civilizations. Asia has a vast population that underlines it great history, that in itself shows the strength of Asia. Even after almost 300 years of Europeans looting Asia, stopping all developments in Asia for 300 years, Asia is retuning to power, because itself is the source of wealth.

That’s why Aryan theory is pushed again and again, a White desperate attempt to realign the creation story, making them the creators and the rest followers. Again, who first went onto ships and looked for India? I don’t think Indians ever contemplated seeking the United Kingdom. So for any intellectual to overlook the barbaric history of Europe and deny it any bias or lies is a complete idiot.

What’s Aryan theory? Aryan from Europe migrated and taught THE INDIANS. Quite a claim to make, after taking India’s wealth, so already accepting the superiority of India in looting their wealth, as you don’t rob poor people right.

Nowhere in any Indian scriptures do they mention ANY ARYAN HOMELAND OUTSDIE OF INDIA ITSELF.

Nowhere, actually they make the direct statement that out of India, the races of man originate. In the Bible, they are called Noah and his sons, Shem, Sham and Jayepti. But in India, the EXACT same story in the fish Puranas, which predates the Bible by many hundreds of years, claims that Shem, Noah, Sham and Jayepti were Indian, and were sent out of India. Now how does a Biblical story from India end up in the Bible?

Now recent genetic data has proven that all Europeans and many American and north Africans rose out of four mtDNA groups that arose in India between 10-50,000 years ago.

In European history it is known that Europe was invaded by people from East, who brought farming and agriculture. Throughout pre-Christian Europe, the acceptance of India as the central source is united, from Popes, the siege of Masada, where the Jews named the Indians as the people to copy before the Romans broke in, in terms of bravery. With more genetic data, its now proven and accepted that a back migration took place from Asia back into Northeast Africa.

The Egyptians claim they came from the East, today we see that many Somalis, Berbers, Ethiopians have genetic traits that take them back to India. If we go back to the Vedas, nowhere does it mention a place in Europe, now let see, why would a European Aryan not mention at all the original homeland of Aryans?

Because like I said, the Aryan homeland is north India, and hence why mention anyplace outside, as it does not? Whites stated that Aryans created the caste system; again this is proven false, as caste was created as a native system of government predating any Aryan invasion claim.

The distinctions between high and low castes are almost negligible and caste organization was created before any Aryan theory, just this alone disproves any White outsiders coming in and imposing their system, in facts it’s almost laughable.

DNA proves this to be a joke also, but it does mention that North Indian have genetic trait that are close to Europeans, but, and its a big but, that the Indian r1a1 gene is 4-5000 years older than in Europe, therefore solidifying its position as the creator, and reinforcing the notion that out of India the people went.

Nowhere has any evidence suggested that white Aryans invaded India and destroyed cities, their is no, NOT ONE evidence to suggest this at any Indus valley site.

Aalso what happened when the British Christian Taliban claim that due to their own failing to understand the life of the Earth, to be only 6,000 years, they claimed a migration sorry invasion date of about 1,500 years ago.

Again genetic data has proven no large invasions of any kind into the Indian population, and regard it as little to minor and predates 10,000 years. Yet DNA has proven that European farmers entered into Europe as recent as 6000 years ago, BRINGING with them farming techniques not from Europe but further east and south.

But before this, I asked myself has their been any other migration in recent historical memory from India. When the Islamic armies invaded northwest India, a large movement of people took place, they where called the Romani gypsies.

They where pushed out or ran away from the murderous armies of Allah, and for the best part of 400 years they had been moving steadily north and west out of India, into central Asia, north Africa and eventually Europe itself. What’s so important is the genetic look of these people, DNA has clearly shown that all Romani gypsies where from Punjab/Rajasthan, that’s their homeland.

Now if we go to UK, or western Europe, these Romani gypsies today have lighter skin tone, and look almost as native as the British or other native Europeans,

However if we take the migration route back to northwest India, then we can CLEARLY see a darkening of skin type with those gypsies closer to India.

So here is a clear indication of how Indians ventured out, and influenced European society, and with that dispersal the skin tone got lighter and lighter until they reached UK, and today you cannot tell the difference between Romani gypsies from India who migrated out to western Europe, and with time, slowly got lighter in skin tone to the point where they look almost like white Europeans.

This is the out of India theory, that shows how EASILY the Aryans came from India and ventured out, and today we can see this journey being made by looking at the Romani gypsy group extending from India to the UK.

The central premise here, common to the Hindutva ideology, is that India used to be one of the greatest and richest civilizations on Earth until it was completely destroyed by the evil British. I find this highly dubious. When the British showed up, they were not in awe of this superior civilization called India. Instead, they were outraged at what a backwards Hobbesian shithole it was. Granted, most of the world was a shithole a few hundred years ago but still.

Minimization of caste. This is classic Hindutva. Hindutva ideology revolves around the whitewashing of the caste system. One argument here is that caste is indigenous to India and was not brought by the Aryans. There is no evidence for this, and the evidence seems to be that caste was invented by the Aryans.

Another argument is that in the past, caste was an innocuous system, and was only turned oppressive by the Brits. Apparently not true. When the Brits showed up, caste in all of its horrors was already in full swing in India, and the Brits were appalled by it. What we glean of history seems to show that caste in its fully expressive oppression, dates all the way back to the Vedas. Caste was not any kinder in the past, in fact, it was probably much worse than it is today.

Yes, Europeans wanted to go to India, not because it was the greatest civilization on Earth but because India had a lot of products that European traders wanted.

Notice the extreme hatred of Europeans and the White man. Hindutvas’ hatred of Whites and Europeans seems on a par with Critical Race Theory types and the worst of the anti-White Blacks, Hispanics and Asians. If you’re White, I think you should realize that many Hindus hate you! The hatred for Islam and Christianity is palpable. Whites are endlessly accused of being Nazis, and Christians are called “Christian Taliban.” Hindutvas typically called Christians “Taliban.”

Given the whitewashing of caste, one must assume that Hindutva ideology is a higher caste ideology. Higher castes make up ~36% of Indian Hindus. The rest are lower castes, out-castes (Dalits) and tribals. One wonders how popular Hindutva ideology is with lower castes, Dalits and tribals. Can anyone fill me in?

The comment suggests, ridiculously, that since Gypsies came out of India and went to Europe, obviously so too did the Indians go to Europe in the way of the Indo-Europeans.

One point endlessly made here is that European civilization was inferior to Indian culture, and Europeans knew this and were humiliated by this, hence they made up theories that it was Indians who were inferior and Europeans superior. This seems to be classic projection on the part of the Hindutvas. There’s no evidence that the British thought that Indian society was superior to British society, in fact, the evidence is that they felt the opposite way.

The comment then goes on to say the opposite, that the Brits thought they were superior to the Indians. Make up your mind. Which is it?

Recent genetic data has proven that all Europeans and many American and north Africans rose out of four mtDNA groups that arose in India between 10-50,000 years ago, from the text, is an interesting claim, but I am not sure if it is true or not.

The comment claims that Europe fell into the Dark Ages after Rome and never emerged from these Dark Ages! Incredible. You mean the Renaissance never even happened?

If not for the canals dug by the British, there would be no malaria in India. So says the commenter. That seems dubious to me, as India is in the malaria belt.

It’s highly dubious that the Avesta and the Vedas say that Iranians came from India. Anyway, Iranians did not come from India.

The entire reason for India’s poverty today is the looting of the British colonialists. If not for them, the whole place would be Switzerland – Singapore in South Asia. In fact, the British were outraged and appalled at the Hobbesian poverty and brutality of Indian society from the first time the Brits stepped on shore.

Europe as a decaying society that cannot survive except for (implied non-White) immigration is a constant Hindutva trope. Smells like envy to me. I also suspect that those waves of immigrants necessary for Europe to survive must come from India.

Europeans are derived from Indians, who brought agriculture and civilization to Europe. This is one of the more extreme Hindutva claims, and there’s nothing to it at all. It is often buttressed by claims that there are Sanskrit words all over Europe. There’s nothing to any of this linguistically.

Back migration from India to North Africa. There were indeed movements to and from India, North Africa, the Caucasus and the Middle East 20-40,000 YBP. This is part of the genesis of the Caucasian race. It is dubious that a strong link between NE Africans and India can be found today. This seems to be part of the Hindutva claim that Ancient Egypt was Indian.

Caste originates in India and predates the Aryans and Vedas. This is a common lie, in fact, it is propagated so well across the web that I believed it myself for a long time. It’s apparently not true. Caste arrived in India with the Vedic Aryans and apparently was not there prior.

R1a1 was birthed in India 18,000 YBP, yes. But this is not the source of the R1a1 in Eastern Europe, which is associated with a more recent spread of the clade associated with the IE languages.

Aryan migration theory claims that Aryans showed up 1,500 YBP. Wrong, AMT says Aryans showed up 3,500 YBP.

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The Aryan Migration Theory: Last Word

It has been known for 150 years now that the Indo-Aryan languages came from outside of India. The evidence is overwhelming, primarily linguistic, but there is also some archeological evidence. In scholarly circles, there is no debate on the Aryan Migration Theory (AMT) and there has been little debate for 150 years. It is only among Indian nationalists and a few hacks and kooks that it is not accepted.

1. There is a substrate of a language that looks like a Munda language in the Rig Vedas. A Munda language was probably spoken in the Punjab when the Aryans migrated there. About 4% of the words in Rig Vedas are these early Munda loans. None of these Munda loans are found outside of Indic.

They would be found all through IE if the Out of India Theory (OIT) was true. The OIT holds that Aryans inhabited North India for 8,000 years, all the while the Dravidians were in South India and Munda tongues were in East India. Obviously, the Aryans came into Punjab and there mass language shift from a Munda language to Indo-Aryan (IA). The language shift is evident in the sparse Munda loans into Vedic Sanskrit.

There are also a few place names left in North India from the original Munda language of the Greater Punjab area. There are some river names left in Eastern Punjab and Haryana where the local Indus Valley Civilization (IVC) continued for some time after the arrival of the Aryans. These names would not be there if the OIT was true.

There are a large number of IA words for local plants and animals and for agriculture that have been borrowed from the Munda language of Punjab. There would be no reason for the IA people to borrow these terms if the IA people were native to Punjab. Instead, this borrowing is precisely what we would expect to see when pastoralists from Central Asia move into the tropics, encounter new plants and animals and start farming – they borrow the terms for these new living things and technologies from the locals.

This is particularly so in the case of farming, which was left to the local people – the Sudra caste. The IA people only brought a few farming related words with them from Central Asia – the remainder were borrowed from the new locals.

40% of Hindi agricultural words still derive from an unknown pre-Munda language of the Indo-Ganges Plains. Nahali, a small language in Madhya Pradesh, at successively lower levels of its vocabulary, displays high levels of borrowing from earlier tongues. 36% of vocabulary is of Kurku (Munda) origin and 9% is Dravidian. At the oldest level, 24% have no cognates in any known language and appear to have derived from the oldest language known from India.

2. There is an old set of shared loans between proto-Indo-Aryan and proto-Iranian for a number of agricultural and other cultural items that appeared in the Bactria-Margiana (BMAC) 3700-4200 YBP. The BMAC is located more or less in present day Turkmenistan. Obviously, these shared loans were picked up by the proto-Indo-Iranian people as they moved down from the steppes of Kazakhstan and Russia into the BMAC, conquering the people who lived there.

There are references in the Rig Vedas to the conquest of the BMAC peoples by the Arya. For this sequence of events to have occurred, the Indo-Aryans would have had to have moved through the BMAC during this time period and later moved into Iran and India, not the other way around. The language of the loans is not known, but it is apparently the language of the BMAC people.

So there is a BMAC or Central Asian substrate in Indo-Iranian. A possible guess for the language of the BMAC people might be a relative of the Burushaski language of northern Pakistan.

The substrate of the Rig Vedas is a Munda language. The substrate of the earlier Proto-Indo-Iranian language is the language of the BMAC. This sequence is not possible under the OIT and is only possible under the AMT.

3. There are early Indo-Aryan loans into the Caucasian language of the Mittani, who lived in northern Iraq and Syria. These loans are dated to ~3400 YBP. These loans are from an earlier form of Indo-Aryan than is used in the Vedas. Therefore, the Vedas must have been composed 3000-3500 YBP and could not have been composed any earlier.

Also, the Mittani could not possibly have come out of India as the OIT demands, since the IA loans do not show any Indic influences. Nor could the loans have come from Iran, as there are numerous IA Gods in the Mittani texts who are marginalized or do not exist in Iran. The loans must have come from somewhere else, apparently the north.

4. We have numerous references in the Vedas to battles between the Arya with their stone forts, metals, horses and chariots against the more sedentary peoples living in South Asia at the time.

5. There are pottery shards in the BMAC that resemble that shards found in the steppe culture to the north. This indicates that there is cultural resemblance between the two cultures. The suggestion is that the shards are Indo-Aryan and appear first on the steppes and then again in the BMAC with its conquest by the Aryans.

6. The chariot appears in the Urals 4000 YBP and then spreads rapidly in many directions with the spread of IE languages, to Europe, to China via the Tocharians and of course to India and Iran via the Aryans. The horse also appears in South Asia (Pakistan) 3700 YBP in conjunction with the chariots. The modern horse is not native to South Asia, so obviously it came from outside, obviously from the Aryans. The indigenous horse of South Asia, the Siwalik horse, was long since extinct.

7. There are specific Punjabi and Uttar Pradesh loans in Vedic Indic that are not found in Iranian. Therefore, Iranian could not possibly have come from Indic as the OIT demands. The languages must have split in the BMAC, one line going to Iran and another line going to India.

8. The Soma ritual originates in the high mountains of Central Asia  – the mountains of Iran, the Himalayas and the Pamirs – with the proto-Indo-Iranian peoples. The original name for the plant is a Central Asian term amsu . This term is borrowed into Indo-Iranian and eventually becomes soma, etc. Later, it moves down into Iran and India and appears in the Vedas. Therefore, the Aryans brought the Soma ritual with them from Central Asia to Iran and India.

9. There is tremendous evidence for a common Indo-Iranian language, mythology and ritual. This shared heritage is not possible with the OIT. It is only possible if there was an Indo-Iranian people, who then split into the Iranian and Indic branches.

10. The Vedic branch of IA becomes innovated and Indianized (in particular, the retroflex consonants) after its arrival in Punjab, while the Iranian branch escapes this development because it did not enter the subcontinent then. In addition, Iranian lacks any specific Indic terms. According to the OIT, the Iranian branch must be Indianized too, or else all of the Indic terms were somehow lost in Iranian.

Since it is not, both branches came from outside India, to the northwest. Iranian languages cannot possibly have come from the Punjab. An early date for Iranian to leave India is preposterous, and Old Iranian (Avestan) is too archaic to have left India after the Vedas. All this means that Iranian and Indic must have split before the Vedas and thus, not inside India. The OIT for Iranian lies in ruins.

11. Zero specifically Indic words are found in IE languages outside of India. For the OIT to be correct, many Indic terms should be found in all the other branches of IE. After all, the Gypsies left India 1000 years ago and took a large specifically Indic set of terms with them to Europe and beyond.

12. Retroflexion. According to the OIT, all branches of IE would have had to have lost their retroflexion after they left India. How likely is that? What we do find, though, is that those branches of Iranian which move east to abut the Indic languages do acquire retroflexion. Since retroflexion is in general not present outside Indic or languages abutting Indic, it must be a late development in IE specific to Indic and cannot have been part of the original IE language as required by the OIT.

Retroflexion only effects those moving into the Indic plain and the eastern Iranian lands, but everyone moving out of South Asia somehow loses it. This does not make sense.

13. Chariots. For the OIT to make sense, chariots must be exported from India 7,000 YBP. However, chariots only appear 4000 YBP in the Urals and NW Kazakhstan and from there spread from Ukraine to Mongolia. The western IE languages retain an IE root rotho for wheel because they had already moved away before the chariot had actually been developed in the Urals. Everyone to the east uses the IA form ratha. This could only be the case if the IA languages moved south from Urals.

Further, according to the OIT, chariots that appear in the Rig Vedas must show up in the text before they have even been invented. Linguistics shows that the word must have been innovated in proto IA at the Urals, for it is present in both branches of IA. This word, along with its invention, can be proved to have been innovated in the steppes and and then carried into India and vice versa could not possibly be the case.

14. Lack of tropical core vocabulary in IE. The core vocabulary of IE shows that the IE homeland was a temperate or even cold place. The plants and animals in the IE language include such cold weather animals, plants and weather words as the otter, beaver, wolf, bear, lynx, salmon, elk, red deer, hare, hedgehog, mouse, birch, willow, elm, fir, ash, oak, beech, juniper, poplar, apple, maple, alder, hazel, nut, linden, hornbeam, and cherry in addition to snow.

A few of these are found in South Asia, but most are not. There are no specific Indic plant and animal names found outside of India, even where these plants do occur outside of India. The OIT would assume retention of at least some of these terms, would it not? Instead, what we find is that a few core IE terms are modified inside India to apply to new plants and animals.

For instance, IE beaver bheber is adopted for the mongoose in South Asia, since beavers do not exist there. IE willow becomes reed, cane in India. So we see that IE temperate plant and animal terms are adopted for the newly encountered tropical living things in India. The flow is into India, not out of India.

For the OIT to be right, the IE languages would have had to have coined these terms after they left India. However, this is not what happened. Instead, the words were IE words from the core IE language itself, which, according to the OIT, was only spoken in India. But these plant and animal names could not possibly have been created in India because most don’t even exist there.

For the OIT to be correct, IE core vocabulary should indicate a tropical climate.

15. Early loans in very early IE. The earliest loans in IE are from Semitic languages of the Middle East. This is possible with an IE homeland in SW Russia or Anatolia, but not possible if the IE homeland is in India, as the OIT requires.

16. Typological features of IE. The typological features of IE are between Kartvelian in Georgia and Uralic in the Urals, as we would expect with an IE homeland in SW Russia, and unlikely with an IE homeland in India.

17. Skeletons. Where are the Indian bones? The OIT requires not a trickling out of India, but a massive migration out of the Punjab. Yet Indian bones look remarkably different from Middle Eastern and European bones. With the massive migration out of India required by the OIT, we should find Indian bones in all of the branches of IE. One would have to argue that the IE speakers who left India did not look like the rest of the Indian people.

18. Facial characteristics. DNA analyses of burials in the Kurgan area near the IE homeland 6000 YBP shows that 60% of the early IE people there had light hair and green or blue eyes. How many Indians, even North Indians, have light hair and light eyes? Almost none. Clearly, the Kurgan peoples were a European type of people. They moved down into Iran and India and mixed with the darker folks already there, creating the present day swarthy peoples of South and Central Asia.

19. Very early Proto IA loans in Finno-Ugric. The homeland of the Finno-Ugric people is somewhere in the Urals. The homeland of the Proto Indo-Aryan people is also somewhere in Urals, especially at the very southern end. The only way for these early PIA loans to get into Finno-Ugric is if the PIA homeland is in the Urals. It’s not possible with the OIT, which generally makes a separate Indo-Aryan branch impossible anyway.

20. Vedic is later than Hittite. For the OIT to be correct, Vedic must be the most ancient branch of IE of them all, very close to Proto IE itself. Yet Hittite, attested from 4000 YBP, is earlier than Vedic. In fact, it is later than Eastern IE, Proto IA, and even pre-Vedic, so Vedic must be a fairly late development in IE. In fact, Vedic is even later than the early forms present in Mittani 3400 YBP.

21. Sanskrit is the most ancient language in all of IE and looks a lot like the original IE language. This is the OIT claim. In fact, IE does not look much like Sanskrit at all. And Sanskrit is not even the oldest attested IA language. Vedic comes first, then Epic Sanskrit and then Classical Sanskrit, and Vedic itself cannot possibly be older than 3500 YBP. The IE language is dated to 6500-8000 YBP (I favor the earlier date). Epic Sanskrit appears only 2500 YBP and Classical Sanskrit comes even later.

22. Lack of IA archeological sites. This is a classic OIT argument. Actually, we do have quite a few site. From the original Proto-Indo-Iranian sites in Sintashta southeast of Urals to the BMAC in Turkmenistan to the Yaz Culture in northeast Iran to the Swat Culture in the Swat Valley of Pakistan to the Cemetery H Culture in Punjab to the Copper Hoard Culture to the south, to the Painted Grey Ware Culture to the south and east, we have a long stretch of cultures that have long been associated with the AMT by archeologists.

Cemetery H in particular shows a possible move away from IVC culture. While the pottery is of course the same, there is a new design on the pottery. On funeral urns we see a small picture of a man with a bird inside of him. This seems to indicate the Vedic belief that the souls of men could fly like birds. Cemetery H also shows a new burial style – cremation and deposit of remains in burial urns. These changes in culture are probably due to Aryan influence.

The ideal Aryan archeological site, however, has typically not yet been found. The ideal site would have the remains of horses and their furnishings, chariots, A Vedic ritual site with three fireplaces west of a river, a flimsy and primitive building pattern of bamboo huts, tools made of stone, copper and bronze, gold and silver ornaments, food consisting of barley, milk products and the meat of cows, sheep and goats. However, the pottery style would remain local, as the Aryans did not innovate pottery.

Such a site has continued to elude searchers, but one has been found in Swat. Swat is mentioned in the Vedas as Aryan territory – suvastu.

23. No Aryan bones. Another OIT argument. It’s quite common for migrations to not be represented by skeletal remains. The remains of the Huns, a large force of proven invaders who conquered Hungary have only just been found in the past 20 years. The most recent research indicates that the Aryans left language, but few genes, in India.

This is reasonable and is often the case with many migrations and invasions. The Huns left as little genetic imprint on the Hungarians as the IA people did on Indians. The Magyars also left their language in the Danube, as the IA people left their IA language in India.

24. European appearance of Indo-Iranian peoples. There is no getting around it. The speakers of Indo-Iranian (II)languages often look strikingly European. This is particularly the case of Iranians, who consider themselves White, or Europeans outside of Europe. The speakers of II languages in Afghanistan often look very European. People in northern Pakistan are some of the most European looking people in the region. Punjabis often look very European, and they look much different from the South Indians to the south.

For the OIT to be correct, this should not be the case. All across the region, all II speakers should look like South Indians, and so should the Punjabis of North India. That II speakers look so European is evidence that they are partly descended from the very European looking peoples of the Kurgan culture of southern Russia. They moved south and east into Central and South Asia, bred in with darker locals, but still retain a strong resemblance to their European roots.

25. LANDSTAT photos indicate the drying up of the Sarasvati River 3900 YBP. A stable of the OIT argument. Since the Sarasvati is mentioned as “the great river” in the Vedas, this proves that the Vedas are much older than 4000 YBP, despite the copious linguistic evidence. The problem is that LANDSTAT photos cannot indicate geographic times.

Further, the Sarasvati River situation is very tricky. The situation as represented in the Vedas is the same situation as exists today. The upper Sarasvati is a significant river, and this is where the settlements were. The lower Sarasvati had already begun to dry up, and by the time of the Vedas it emptied into an inland lake. In a few places, the lower river goes underground in the alluvial Punjabi plains and disappears.

Archeological investigation indicates that settlements along the lower river were abandoned as the river dried up around this time. As you can see, the “Sarasvati River dried up” meme is a huge red herring.

26. No memories of an Aryan migration. Another OIT line. First of all, it is quite typical of most people to have no memories or false memories of wherever they came from. The Romans said they came from Greece. The Gypsies say they came from Egypt.

However, the Vedas do contain vague references to former habitations, such as what appears to be the BMAC and there are references to journeys over mountains and mountain passes. Many place names in Afghanistan are from proto-II words from Central Asia and often lead back to ancient Central Asian enemies of the Arya referred to in the Vedas. One of these is the Parni, associated with the BMAC and later with a northern Iranian group. They had stone forts and well-built cow stables in northern Iran that look a lot like earlier BMAC structures.

The route of migration did not take place over the high passes of the Himalayas and the Pamirs. Few groups have migrated over these treacherous mountains in the last 2000 years. Instead, the migration went from the BMAC down through northern Iran to Herat in West Afghanistan to the Gomal River in near Ghazni in East Afghanistan to the Swat Valley.

There are frequent references in the Vedas to southward and eastward movements of various groups of Arya. There are no references to westward groups as would be required by the OIT. Some of these movements to the south and east are described in military terms as victorious conquests. There are also references in the late Vedas of movements of the Arya east from the Afghan/Pakistan border to Haryana, Uttar Pradesh and all the way to Bihar.

27. Archeoastronomy. OIT proponents like to push this theory. Supposedly, the positions of stars are mentioned in the Vedas. By analyzing the positions of stars in the Vedas, we can make claims about when the Vedas were written via tracking the movements of stars in ancient days.

However, archeoastronomy is a field in poor standing. All we can learn for sure from archeoastronomy is that the Vedas were written some time in the past 8,000 years. All else is up in the air.

The Indian Astrophysicist Rajesh Kochhar has clearly mentioned that the astronomical data in the Vedas is not reliable.

28. The association of Andronovo culture with Indo-Iranians is controversial. So say the OIT proponents. This is not true.

Andronovo is a culture associated with the proto Indo-Iranians that stretched, in its formative location, around northern Kazakhstan and and west into Russia to near Samara, then down to the Caspian Sea, covering most of the northwest quadrant of Kazakhstan.

Later its borders enlarged. At maximum, its northern boundary was from Samara in the Volga Basin east to Anzhero Sudzhensk northeast of Novosibersk in southern Siberia.

The eastern boundary bordered on the Afansevo Culture in eastern Kazakhstan, southern Siberia and Xinjiang. Andronovo did include part of Xinjiang in the far north where the Altai Mountains come down.

The eastern border then encompassed most of eastern Kazakhstran except the area east of Balquash Koli, moving down to the border with Kyrgyzstan in the south, encompassing most of Uzbekistan except the far south, the northern half of Turkmenistan all the way to the the southeastern shore of the Caspian Sea. The Aral Sea was the realm of the Andronovo People.

The relation of Andronovo to the Indo-Aryan people in particular, as opposed to Indo-Iranians in general, is more controversial, but has been suggested by some experts.

29. Chariots could not go over the Hindu Kush. Another OIT argument. But as noted above, the Aryans did not move down through the Hindu Kush; instead, they came east from the BMAC through northern Iran to Herat in west Afghanistan east to around Ghazni over to the Bannu region in the NWFP of Pakistan. That’s a much easier route than the Hindu Kush.

30. There was no invasion. The invasion scenario has been replaced in the past 40 years to a migration scenario. It seems more likely that instead of defeating the Dravidian people and pushing them to the south, or destroying the IVC, instead the Aryans merely profited from the collapse of the IVC that was already underway.

31. There was no genocide of the Dravidian people, all Indians look alike genetically. No one ever said there was a genocide of the Dravidians by the Aryans. Instead, the Aryans moved in, and there was intermingling and intermarriage with the Dravidians, the combined result being the culture of the Vedas.

32. The linguistic evidence. The case for the AMT and the total non-case for the OIT is made by the linguistic evidence. Everything else is secondary. The case was clinched by Hock 1999 (see references).

33. Indians descend overwhelmingly from the Paleolithic population of India. It’s true that 80% of Indian genes go all the way back to the Paleolithic era. But 80% of European genes go all the way back to the Paleolithic too. Same in Britain. Therefore, Europe and Britain has never experienced any migrations of invasions in the past 10,000 years. The Aryan genetic footprint on Indian genes, if it exists, is doubtless less than 10% of the total. It’s well known by now that the Aryans left language, but few genes, in India. Identifying genetic history with linguistic history is naive.

Keep in mind that the Aryans were probably installed a superstrate over the existing Dravidian population. The Aryans were probably no more than 10-15% of the population genetically, and the remaining 85-90% were Dravidians.

34. How could a more primitive people like the Aryans replace the language of the more civilized people, the IVC Dravidians? So ask the OIT theorists. However, let us note that Greek speakers in the Levant, Aramaic speakers in Mesopotamia, Coptic speakers in Egypt and Romans in northern Africa all got their languages replaced by the culturally inferior Bedouins of Arabia. This sort of thing happens all the time.

35. There is no solid proof an Aryan migration to India in archeological terms. This is true as far as it goes, but all it means that is that archeologists typically refuse to characterize migrations in terms of who is migrating where. While there is no archeological proof for an Aryan migration, there is also no proof for Greek, Germanic, Italic, Celtic or Armenian migrations in those branches of IE either.

36. The Rig Veda says that the Sarasvati River flows to the sea. According to OIT folks, since the river dried up 3900 YBP, if the Vedas discuss it flowing the sea, they must have been written before 4000 YBP. However, this statement is only in one sentence of the Vedas, and the word “sea” in question is actually samuda, which Sanskrit experts say can mean lots of thing, but in this case means and inland sea or lake as formed by a river emptying into a desert. Which is what the Sarasvati did. The Sarasvati never emptied into the sea at any time.

37. Horses. OIT proponents keep claiming that they have found horse bones or evidence of horses on seals or objects at some early date. None of this has been confirmed, and some cases have involved overt fraud by Indian nationalist “scholars.” The earliest confirmed horse in the region is at Pirak 3800 YBP. Many horse remains have been found after that, but none earlier.

38. The AMT was invented by Max Muller in 1848. Muller as a British spy – agent – whatever who was sent by the British to falsify the history of India so the Indians would lose their national pride. Hence, the AMT is a British conspiracy. Yes, OIT supporters actually say this. The long version is that he was hired by the British East India Company as part of a nefarious plot to denigrate Hinduism.

First of all, the theory was not invented in 1848 nor was it invented by Muller, as it substantially predates 1848 and Muller was not the first to come up with it.

There is no evidence at all that the AMT was hatched as a British conspiracy (other popular theories say that the entire linguistic community was in on this conspiracy), nor has anyone offered any reason how or why the British could profit by making up the theory of a Bronze Age culture in India. Or why the British, who supposedly hated Indians and thought they were inferior, would invent a theory that said that Indians were in part related to the great British people.

References

Hock, Hans H. 1999. Out of India? The Linguistic Evidence. In: J. Bronkhorst & M. Deshpande, Aryan and Non-Aryan in South Asia: Evidence, Interpretation and Ideology, 1-18. Harvard Oriental Series. Opera Minora, Vol. 3. Cambridge, MA. 

Kochhar, Rajesh. 2000. The Vedic People: Their History and Geography. New Delhi: Sangam Books. 2000.

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