Category Archives: Siberians

The Race of the Original Turks

I won’t be able to do that as I sit on the peer review board of a journal of Turkic linguistics out of Turkey. I also have a chapter coming out in a new book about Turkic linguistics. In the chapter, I mostly talk about language, but I did talk a lot about history and origins too.

It’s pretty clear the original Turks from Northern Kazakhstan/the Altai were probably not White people, though that is probably in dispute. The later homelands, around the Altai where China, Mongolia, Russia and Turkey all come together were probably much more Asiatic. If you look at the Siberian Turkic speakers like Siberian Tatars, the Altai, the Chulym, the Shor and the Khakas, those are probably a good bet for what the original Turkics looked like. A good way of describing these people is half-Asiatic (Mongolic) and half-Caucasian.

This group also was apparently the base for the Amerindian populations as well. The Amerindians are fully Asiatic. So the people who birthed the Asiatics later birthed the Turks. However, there was some Caucasoid mixing in between with groups such as the Caucasian Tocharians. Later, Iranic groups mixed heavily with Turkics in the Stans.

The Tuvans also look like a very early Turkic group, and they are very Asiatic (Mongolic). The real pure Turkics from the Turkic homeland appear to be at least 50% Asiatic. The only reason they look Whiter as the get further west is that the Turkic Muslims conquered many of these people in Islamic jihads. These conquered Caucasians were then converted to Islam in the usual manner.



Filed under Amerindians, Anthropology, Asia, Asians, China, Eurasia, Europe, Europeans, Kazakhstan, Mixed Race, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Russia, Siberians, Turkey, Turks

Were Caucasoids (and Even Europeans) Originally Australoids?

A skull in Southern Russia from 35,000 YBP classified as Early Caucasoid is classified as “Australoid.” So it appears that Whites were originally Australoid also. Skulls from 21,000 YBP in Europe line up most closely with an Amerindian tribe called the Makah in Washington State who are probably Paleomongoloids.

So 35,000 YBP, Caucasians or Whites were probably Australoid and 20,000 YBP they may have looked like Paleomongoloids. This implies that there was some sort of Australoid-Caucasoid transition in Europe as there was an Australoid-Mongoloid transition in the East. Also 20,000 YBP, theories suggest that there was a lot of back and forth movement between people in Europe and Siberians. A people in Scotland called the Orcadians or Orcadian Islanders have an ancient genome that looks more Siberian than anything else.

The Siberian zone has continued to be a mixing zone for Caucasoids and Mongoloids in recent history. The Tocharians were a very European looking Caucasian group that lived in Western China from 3,000 YBP. People like the Altai are very mixed, nearly 50-50 Caucasoid-Mongoloid. The Mansi in the Urals are very similar, but they look more European. The most ancient Europeans of all, the Lapps or Saami, often have a somewhat Mongoloid appearance.


Filed under Amerindians, Anthropology, Eurasia, Europe, Europeans, North America, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Russia, Scotland, Siberians, USA, Washington, West, Whites

Most Caucasian Populations Have Significant Non-Caucasian Elements

I received this comment today. I deleted the comment and banned the poster because he insulted me, but his comments are interesting nonetheless. His position is that most Caucasian populations are significantly admixed with non-Caucasian, and I am afraid he is right. There are probably few if any pure Whites or pure Caucasians.

The guy appears to be some sort of a Hindu nationalist type and he seems to be making a big deal out of the fact that Indians are mostly White, especially high caste ones of which he seems to be a part. He is quite offended by the idea that Indians are part-Australoid, but that is how they show up on some charts.

He says the Australoid component is more similiar to SE Asians such as Thai people. However, this Asian component also looks something like the Asian part of the Ancient Northeast Asian group. The Asian part of the ANE’s has been called different things, but to me they look Ainuid. So the Asian part of Indians looks like Ainuids/Thais. I think he may really be onto something here. It is a good hypothesis.

He is just wrong about some things below. ANE did not originate in Amerindians (How did that happen? Did it move back from the Americas to Asia?); instead, Amerindians are obviously partly derived from ANE from Northeast Asia itself. The Karitiana of Brazil have the highest ANE ever found. They may be the remains of some of the earliest settlers to the Americans.

The Chukchi are probably also heavily ANE somehow because these very Asian-looking Eskimo like people actually plot Caucasian on some charts! So in Far Northeastern Asia, early Caucasoids and early Asians have been mixing it up for some time. He also notes that Berbers have a lot of Black blood. This is correct. In fact, on some charts, Berbers plot outside of Caucasian altogether and end up slightly into the the Black or African quadrant.

He also says that Ashkenazi Jews have a lot of Asian and Black in them. Asian maybe (ancient Asian). Black, no way. I have seen charts showing that Ashkenazi Jews and other people of the Caucasus have the least amount of Black of any White group on Earth. How hilarious for Stormfronters that Jews are the most pure of all the Whites. Australoids are absolutely not archaic Whites or archaic Caucasians.

This is an interesting blog. What I’d like to point out, however, is that there is quite a bit of misinformation regarding the genetic makeup/ancestry of races and ethnic groups/castes found in India on this blog. I noticed you implied in some of your posts here that Indians are hybrid population between two groups, one most similar to present-day non-White Caucasoids, and one most similar to Australian Aboriginals.

Let me explain what the genetic/latest research has actually shown, as far as India’s demographics and the genetic composition of its castes is concerned. What follows is a detailed explanation of South Asian genetics and therefore, I must warn you, it is a long wall of text but completely accurate and supported by the latest research, despite containing a lot of jargon that may give you a headache. Bear with me here.

Indians are composed of two composite groups: ANI or the Ancestral North Indians, a group which itself is a composite of two or more different Caucasoid populations, that are on average, closest to present-day Georgians in genetic makeup, and ASI, or the Ancestral South Indians, a group which is also a composite of two or more different populations, at least half of which is Caucasoid in nature, with the other half varying in composition from one ethnic group to another.

In other words, while ANI is completely Caucasoid in nature, ASI is 50-60% Caucasoid in nature depending on the caste in question, and the remainder of ASI ancestry is either composed of Mongoloid, proto-Mongoloid, proto-Caucasoid or in exceptionally rare, isolated cases like the Paniya tribe of South India, of proto-Australoid-like ancestry which still isn’t the same as having Australoid ancestry. Keep in mind that Australoids themselves are at least 80% Mongoloid in genetic makeup and are considered to be archaic Whites themselves.

They are also the furthest group genetically on Earth, from the Negroids/Congoids/Bantuids of Sub-Saharan Africa. So, apart from a minority of untouchables of South India and parts of East India who are not even a part of the caste system to begin with, no other group in South Asia has any proto-Australoid-like admixture to speak of. And Indians are predominantly Caucasoid and group with other Caucasoids according to every genetic test/anthropometric study since the dawn of time. More information here.

It is crucial to remember that Indians have nothing to do with Australoids – those people are completely different apart from a very few isolated tribes in India that have real proto-Australoid-like admixture due to their status and extreme isolation. And this admixture has nothing to do with ASI admixture – ASI is just like the paleolithic ANE influence in Europeans, and half of it is Caucasian (at least half, if not more, it varies for different people in India) and it is a composite just like ANI is with different components for different people/castes in India.

The Reich et al paper even pointed out that the Onge were at best a poor proxy to get something without ANI admixture and little ASI admixture, and even then, it was a worse proxy than the Han Chinese. In other words, East Asians were a better proxy than the Onge themselves.

The reason they picked the Onge as a (poor) proxy was because they were the only group they could find in that region without ANI admixture and because they are such an old population that has been isolated and separated from mainland populations for a very long period of time. They also have very few individuals left, so owing to the problems of genetic drift, they assume ownership of a component, and the admixture program tries to force the Onge component in an admixture model of South Asians.

In more recent papers, this has been clarified further and it has been stated that they were simply making a poor guess when using the Onge as a proxy in the model.

Furthermore, to illustrate just how poor of a guess it was, they pointed out that ASI is massively separated from the Onge. In fact, ASI is just as far from the Onge as the Utah Whites (a group of random Euro-descent samples from Utah in the States) are from the Onge, indicating that ASI is as related to Onge as Utah Whites are.

Papuans and Onge have no relation to India at all – the Onge are in SE Asia. Han are a much better proxy. In addition, Indians lack Denisovan admixture and other crucial haplogroups found commonly in the Onge as well.

It must also be said that if Indians are erroneously assumed to have proto-Australoid-like ancestry, so are Europeans.

You might be under the false assumption that Europeans are somehow a “pure” Caucasoid population, when in fact that couldn’t be further from the truth. The latest genetic research conclusively shown that Europeans are all admixed to different degrees between at least four main populations of people: West European Hunter-Gatherer (WHG), Early European Farmer (EEF), Scandinavian Hunter-Gatherer (SHG), and Ancient North Eurasian (ANE).

It has also conclusively shown that all populations of Europeans and other “White” Caucasoids have significant to huge amounts of non-Caucasoid ancestry due to the fact that the ANE/Ancient North Eurasian component is at least 45% East Asian/Mongoloid in ancestry. The ANE component is based on the genome of the infamous Mal’ta boy or MA-1.

In Europe today, it peaks among Estonians at just over 18%, and intriguingly, reaches a similar level among Scots. Finns, Russians and Mordovians also carry very high ANE in addition to very high amounts of much more recent Siberian admixture. What’s even more interesting is that this ANE influence is the very influence found among South Asians, albeit in a slightly different variety known as ASI.

What the aforementioned information means is the following: Indians are not a hybrid population between Caucasoids and Australoids. In reality, the vast majority of Indians are an admixed population between Caucasoids and Mongoloids – except in this case, the Mongoloids are most similar in phenotype and genotype to SE Asians like the Thai.

According to the latest research, the average Indian is at least 75% Caucasian and 25% Asian – these figures have been substantiated by multiple reports including the National Geographic Project’s Geno 2.0 DNA ancestry test samples, the 23andme test samples, and even the Reich et. al paper published in the highly-cited/high impact factor scientific journal Nature.

It has been conclusively proven that South Asians/Indians range from 5-10% Asian to 35% Asian or in other words from 65% Caucasian to 95% Caucasian. The most Caucasian people in the region are from the northwest of the Indian subcontinent, and the least Caucasian people are from the east and south. Only one person broke the magic 35% barrier, and he was a Bangladeshi (38%).

If you’d like a layman’s interpretation of the data in the aforementioned sources, check out this article by Razib Khan, one of the pioneers in the field of population genetics, particularly as it pertains to the archaeogenetics of South Asia as a whole – he writes articles for Discover Magazine, which is a well respected source. He is also a PhD student at UC Davis. Here is a post describing the general findings of genetic research into South Asian populations

In addition to the Reich et. al paper and other landmark papers in this field, the Harappa Ancestry Project, which is helmed by a genetic expert and is working in combination with Reich’s data is also another landmark study into the archaeogenetics of South Asia. It has conclusively proven and further substantiated the results I aforementioned.

According to the samples collected by the project, there is a sharp correlation between caste/location and Caucasian ancestry in India, with the upper castes in all parts of India being significantly more Caucasian than the lower castes, and the North-West Indian/South Asian upper castes being the most Caucasian of all – up to 95%.

All of the Northwest Indian/Pakistani/Nepali/Afghani upper castes are between 5-18% admixed with East Eurasians/Mongoloids; in other words all of them are between 82-95% Caucasian. These castes would include the Rajputs, Jatts, Khatris, Gujjars, Sindhis, Brahmins, Bhumihars, Balochis, Brahuis, and certain upper caste Punjabis, and Pathans. Note that this is only applicable to the upper castes aforementioned that are in the North and North-West of India as well as Pakistan and Nepal.

As for the rest of India (and Bangladesh/Sri Lanka), as I mentioned earlier, the average South Asian is 75% Caucasian and 25% Asian, so a good amount of South Asians are more Caucasian than 75%, and a good amount are less Caucasian.

For instance, the average Tamil (from South India, and well represented in the diaspora in the USA as the “typical Indian” stereotype) is 33-34% non-Caucasian, and the average Bengali/Bangaladeshi is closer to 55-60% Caucasian. The dalits of Tamil Nadu or the lowest caste Tamils (also well represented in the States), are at least 40% non-Caucasian. The lowest castes of India, the Chamars, who are found all over India (also in the States) are also in the 50-60% Caucasian range. Upper caste Indians in the rest of India (apart from the Northwest) tend to be 70-80% Caucasian.

If you’d like to see the data for yourself, here is the link to the spreadsheet.

For reference, the “South Indian” component is 50-60% Caucasian, and the ANE/NE Asian component is 45% non-Caucasian. The SE Asian, Siberian, Papuan, American and Beringian components are all Mongoloid, and the E. African, San, Pygmy and W. African components are all Negroid. Keep in mind that the data here is accurate only for South Asians, other regions are too under-sampled in the project.

Now you might be wondering, if South Asians, particularly the upper castes in the North and Northwest, are between 5-18% admixed, are they alone in this predicament? As I alluded to earlier, they are anything but alone.

Let’s start with Middle Easterners and Northern Africans. Egyptians, Moroccans, Libyans, and other North Africans are on average 15% Black/Negroid admixed. In fact, according to the latest research, the average North African is 15-16% black, and individual countries like Egypt and Tunisia are 18-21% Black on average, so some would be more than 21% black, some less.

The highest admixture is found among Moroccans and Berbers, who can be up to 30% Black/Negroid admixed on average. As far as the Middle East goes, Yemeni people have been shown to be 18-19% black on average, and the Bedouin tribes have been shown to be 16-18% Black on average as well. Qataris are 12-16% Black, and Saudi Arabians range from 14-18% black as well, on average. Jews, particularly the Ashkenazim, have also been shown to be 16.5% admixed with Mongoloid and Black/Negroid on average.

So on average, MENA people are 75-85% Caucasoid and 15-25% Black/Negroid admixed, therefore its safe to say that MENA people are Caucasoid-Negroid hybrids, with some groups being more and others less Negroid. All these figures have been collected by National Geographic and many other researchers.

As far as West Asians/Central Asians are concerned, they show significant amounts of Mongoloid admixture on average.Tajiks have 15% Mongoloid admixture on average, while Turkmen have 16% Mongoloid admixture on average.

However, some groups of Turkmen average 27% Mongoloid, and some are 35-56% Mongoloid. Southern Turkmen on average are only 1/8 to 1/3 Mongoloid or better said 13-31% Mongoloid. However in some parts of Turkmenistan like the northern and eastern parts, the Mongoloid DNA reaches 33-55%. Other parts of Turkmenistan are 33-55% Mongoloid.

Even many Turkish people are 10-20% Mongoloid and 15% Mongoloid on average. Iranians are also Mongoloid admixed – up to 10% on average, with the Azeris of Iran being even more admixed. Tatars are 16% Mongoloid admixed on average.

So, its safe to say that most West Asian groups are a hybrid of Mongoloids and Caucasoids, being on average 80-85% Caucasian and 15-20% Mongoloid, with some groups being much less Caucasian and much more Mongoloid.

Now, lets look at the European data. All non-Sardinian Europeans have been shown to have significant amounts of ANE ancestry due to the Malt’a boy mentioned earlier, and this ANE ancestry is related to/is the same as ASI ancestry in South Asians, relating Europeans to Amerindians and East Asians.

The ANE component is composed of 45% Mongoloid and Australoid-like ancestry (similar to the distant relation that some South Asians have to proto-Australoids), and the Malt’a boy also has a proto-Australoid ASE component on the order of 10%.

This ANE component peaks in the Karitiana Indians of South America

More info about ANE’s relationship to ASI is available at this link which itself references this landmark paper:

It is also pertinent to point out the fact that ANE ancestry in all Europeans with the exception of Sardinians (who have very minor ANE ancestry) is mostly (45-55%) non-Caucasoid in nature, and does not include separate additional East Asian ancestry that is due to much more recent admixture with Mongoloids from the Golden Horde and other admixture events.

ANE or NE Asian is best thought of as very ancient Asian admixture, while the recent admixture is added separately. A recent landmark paper definitively showed a clear signal of admixture in Northern Europe, represented by the ANE/NE Asian component. Here is the link to the paper and here is a link to the layman’s explanation of it.

What this paper definitively shows (as do successive papers recently released after it) is that Europeans, especially Northern Europeans, have huge amounts of NE Asian, also known as ANE, admixture. This is because they are descended in part from an Amerindian population.

What is the actual amount? Well, remember that ANE or NE Asian is made up of two components – one is Caucasian and related to Levantine ancestry and the other is related to NE Asia/Siberians and the American Indians, peaking in the Karitiana Indians of South America.

Therefore, according to the research data in the latest papers, Northern Europeans are 5-18% admixed with Mongoloids, or in other words, Northern Europeans are 5-18% Non-Caucasoid, and the authors pointed out that this is actually a conservative estimate, one that is lower than what the actual value is likely to be – which is purported to be even higher than the 5-18% range, easily crossing over into the 10-20%+ non-Caucasoid range.

Keeping in mind that in the Near East among Lezgins, Chechens and Ossetians, ANE is in the 23-27%+ range. This means that other Eastern Europeans not residing in Northern Europe are also heavily admixed with non-Caucasian ANE ancestry as well. The ANE ancestry is 45% East Asian/Amerindian in composition and 10% SE Asian in ancestry, so 55% non-Caucasian and ANE ancestry ranges from 8-21%+ in almost all Europeans except Sardinians.

A table with ANE scores from a recent paper. Remember how I mentioned earlier that this ANE non-Caucasoid ancestry did not include additional, more recent, non-Caucasoid East Asian ancestry?

Well, lets take a look at that data as well. Russians and Finns are 80-88% Caucasian depending on the person (not including non-Caucasoid ANE admixture which would make them even less Caucasoid) because of much more recent East Asian admixture with the areas with the higher non-Caucasian mixture in the 12-20% range around Leningrad.

Finnish people, according to the latest genetic study, are at least 13-17% East Asian, and Russians, according to the latest genetic study, are 12-18% East Asian. More info here.

Lithuanians and Swedes are at least 10%-20% admixed with recent East/Mongoloid mixture. If we add this recent Mongoloid admixture to the more ancient ANE ancestry in Europeans, we get the following numbers: Russians, Finns and Swedes are 17-30% Mongoloid/Non-Caucasoid and 70-83% Caucasoid. Because of this, Finns have been found to be distinct from other Europeans and don’t cluster as close to them. Russians in the North are much the same way.

Therefore we can sum up the above with the following three sentences:

  • Proto West Eurasians + ANE/ASI-like = Europeans and Latin Americans
  • Proto West Eurasians + ASI/ANE-like = South Asians and Central and West Asians
  • Proto West Eurasians + African = Middle Easterners and Northern Africans

And since everyone in these regions can be as much as 30% non-Caucasoid due to either Mongoloid or Negroid ancestry, (but closer to 20-25% non-Caucasoid), Indians are definitely not alone in being admixed Caucasoids on this planet. They are actually part of the norm, being on average, 75% Caucasian and 25% Asian,

The data clearly shows that Indians are as admixed as other Caucasian groups throughout the world, and in some causes, purer, particularly in the case of the upper caste North and North-West Indians, who are at most 18% admixed or less and thus 82-95% Caucasian.


Filed under Aborigines, Ainu, Amerindians, Anthropology, Arabs, Asia, Asians, Azeris, Bedouins, Berbers, Blacks, Central Asians, Chechens, Chinese (Ethnic), Chuckchi, East Indians, Egyptians, Estonians, Europeans, Finns, Genetics, India, Iranians, Jews, Lithuanians, Moroccans, Near Easterners, North Africans, Northeast Asians, Papuans, Physical, Pygmies, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Russians, Scottish, SE Asians, Siberians, Sociology, South Asia, South Asians, Swedes, Tajiks, Thai, Turks, Yemenis

A Biological Association Between IQ and Skin Color in Japan

The journal article is here.

There is a significant gap in intelligence in Japan that correlates almost perfectly with latitude and even skin color.

The North-South intelligence gap in Japan is 11 points – 107 IQ in the north and 96 IQ in Okinawa. In addition, Japanese get taller as you go towards the north.

In Japan, lighter skin has a .42 correlation with elevated IQ. In other words, in Japan, the lighter the skin, the higher the IQ.

There is a remarkable correlation between IQ and homicide in Japan that is much greater than the IQ-skin color correlation.

In Japan, the higher the IQ, the lower the homicide rate – the correlation is stunningly high at .79 correlation.

However, there is downside to living in the north of Japan where folks are much more intelligent and vastly less homicidal. Weaker sunlight in the north makes people depressed and increases suicide rates.Apparently rates of depression and suicide rates increase as you go north in Japan.

Higher IQ is probably not more likely to make on depressed or suicidal, though this is an open question. Surely lighter skin is not more likely to make one depressed or suicidal as there is not even a good hypothesis there – why would having lighter skin be more depressing or make you want to kill yourself? It makes no sense.

Instead the correlation is simply due to the obvious – the weather. It is well known that the weaker the sunlight is, the more people get depressed, drink alcohol and commit suicide. Scandinavian countries had high suicide rates under all sorts of economic systems, and Scandinavians do not commit any more suicide than others living in the far north such as Greenlanders, Eskimos and Whites living in the Yukon or Alaska.In addition, Siberians have always had high suicide rates.

High rates of alcohol are also found all across the north in these very same areas. When the sun doesn’t come out at all for half the year, that is extremely depressing!

The highest IQ areas in Japan have the lowest homicide rates, and the lowest IQ areas have the highest homicide rates. The relationship between IQ and homicide in Japan is linear and almost perfect. The dumber people are, the more they kill other people. The smarter people are, the less they kill other humans.

In addition, there is an excellent relationship between IQ and income in Japan.

With every 1 IQ point rise, incomes increase by 2.5%. The smarter you are, the more money you make and the dumber you are, the less money you make.

In capitalism, many poor or low income people may be poor or low income simply because they are not very intelligent and for no other reason. Societal oppression is not always to blame for poverty and low income in capitalism as capitalism is like a footrace with 1000 sprinters and no matter how hard anyone tries, 300 men will always come in 700th-100th. And that’s if everyone is trying their hardest and running as fast as they can. Poverty is an intrinsic aspect of capitalism. You can’t have capitalism without poverty. It’s baked right into the system.

The Yayoi were the more Neomongoloid types who moved into Japan 2,300 years ago from Korea. They then slowly conquered, killed, enslaved and frankly genocided the Australoid Jomon or Ryukuyan/Ainu types as they moved north.

The Neomongoloid Yayoi appear to have been were smarter and taller than the Australoid Jomon.

We know this because pure Neomongoloid Chinese Koreans consistently outscore the Neomongoloid/Australoid Japanese on IQ.


Filed under Alcohol, Amerindians, Anthropology, Asia, Asians, Capitalism, Crime, Depressants, Depression, Economics, Europe, Intelligence, Intoxicants, Japan, Japanese, Koreans, Mental Illness, Mood Disorders, Mother Nature, NE Asia, Northeast Asians, Physical, Psychology, Psychopathology, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Siberians, Social Problems, Sociology, Weather

What Race Is This Person?

What race is this man? I would tell you what country he comes form, but that would give it away. He was born in 1900.

What race is this man? He was born in 1900.

A most interesting phenotype. This man’s daughter is described as Malay-Chinese mix from Malaysia living in Singapore. The Chinese component came from the far south of China in the Min Nan region.

This man is described as from Peranakan in Malaysia. I am not sure if he is pure Malay or Malay/Chinese mix.

I do not know about you, but this guy is a straight up dead ringer for Pol Pot! That means that he looks Khmer to me. In other words, he looks Southeast Asian. Which he is. I am not sure if I can see any Chinese mix in him or not, so I do not know if he is part Chinese.

The classification is Paleomongoloid or Southeast Asian Mongoloid. This includes Thai, Lao, Malay, Khmer, Filipino and Indonesian in that region.

I would say that the Vietnamese are not Paleomongoloids. I would put them in the same group as the Southern Chinese, Southern Mongoloids.

Southern Mongoloids are more progressive than Paleomongoloids and they are Neomongoloid. But I have a feeling that Northern Mongoloids are even more progressive than Southern Mongoloids. Northern Mongoloids would include Koreans, Northern Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian and some Siberians like the Evenki, Yakut, Gilyak, Oroquen, Ulchi, Negidal, etc.


Filed under Anthropology, Asians, Chinese (Ethnic), Japanese, Koreans, Malays, Mongolians, Northeast Asians, Oroquen, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, SE Asians, Siberians, Vietnamese

Transitional Mongoloid Races

Mike815 writes:

If Kennewick man is Australoid and also being Paleomongloid, are there ethnic groups that are being both neomongoloid and Paleomongoloid, and being both neomongoloid and Indonesian type?

Kennewick was Australoid-Paleomongoloid transitional. An Australoid type transitioning to Paleomongoloid.

Maybe Eskimos, Vietnamese, Thai, Lao, Hmong, Gilyak, Ainu, some Siberians would fall into that category. Those are sort of like Paleomongoloid-Neomongoloid transitional.

Eskimos, Chukchi, Yukaghir, Kamchadals, etc. are not really Paleomongoloids like Amerinds. They are more progressive. But they are not as advanced as true Neomongoloids.

Vietnamese are interesting. I now think most SE Asians are actually Paleomongoloids: Filipinos, Indonesians, Malays, Khmer, some of the tribes of the Indian Northeast, most particularly the Nagas. But Vietnamese and Thai/Lao are Neomongoloids. I just do not feel like they are a long ways down that road. The Vietnamese only transitioned to Neo 2,300 years via massive South Chinese infusion. There are also Paleomongoloids in Vietnam called Montagnards.

Thai/Lao are not even as progressive as the Vietnamese. Thai and Lao probably just transitioned to Neo maybe 900 years ago via massive South Chinese infusion. There are also some Paleos in Thailand such as the Akha.

Hmong are thought to be Neomongoloids, but a lot of them have somewhat archaic features, and they are rather backwards people. They could be transitional.

Yunnan Chinese: There are definitely some quite archaic Mongoloids running around up in Yunnan. Probably most folks are Neomongoloids of the South Chinese type, but I have seen some Paleomongoloids up there and some people who look transitional.

Ainu are Australoids by skull, Neomongoloid by genes. And by now heavily married in with Neomongoloid Japanese, so consider them transitionals.

Gilyaks are at least as archaic as the Ainu, but I have never seen any skull data. I know that some say that the Gilyak are the remains of the proto-Northeast Asians who developed around Lake Baikal 35,000 years ago. They do not look particulalry striking. They simply look something like Japanese people.

Some of the lower Siberian types seem to be Neomongoloid. The Evenki, Yakut and Tuva look quite progressive.

There seem to be some Siberians who look like dead ringers for the Amerinds, including the Altai and much later Ket and probably Orochen/Ulchi stock from which the Amerinds are theorized to have come. The Orochen, Ulchi, Even, etc. look quite Neomongoloid. Whether these are true Paleomongoloids or whether they are transitionals, I am not sure. At this point, many of them, especially the Altai, Shor, Khakas, Os, etc. are heavily admixed with Caucasian.

Further west, the Mansi and Khanty types are nearly mongoloid-Caucasoid transitional of a very interesting type – a rather archaic Siberian Mongoloid of either the Paleo or Paleo-Neo transitional type mixed about 50-50 with Russian East Slavic very blond and blue depigmented ultra-Whites. Some of the photos of the Mansi and Khanty will make you fall out of your chair.



Filed under Ainu, Amerindians, Anthropology, Asians, Chinese (Ethnic), Chuckchi, Filipinos, Hmong, Indonesians, Inuit, Japanese, Lao, Malays, Northeast Asians, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, SE Asians, Siberians, Thai, Vietnamese

Melanesians, Berbers and Proto-Europeans

Peabody writes:

If Melanesians diverged so early on (40,000 YBP), shouldn’t they be considered their own race? They’re about as old as Caucasoids.

Also, how long ago did Berbers diverge from other Caucasians?

Melanesians are a separate race. But genetically, they are not particularly distinct. They line up pretty well with the Oceanians and the rest of the Asians. The Aborigines and the Papuans are much more genetically divergent than the Melanesians.

I do not know about Berbers, but they appear to be along with the Sami the remains of the ancient Europeans. The Sami go back 11,000 YBP, and the Berbers seem to have links to the Sami. One wonders if the Berbers are the remains of ancient Southern Europeans. Berbers are also one of the oldest Caucasoid races. Caucasians split off 42,000 YBP, and after that there were quite a few movements of proto-Caucasians back and forth in a few areas – North Africa, the Caucasus and India. So these three places really do seem to be where the Caucasian race actually took shape.

There is a very odd looking Berber group called Mozabites who I suspect may be ancient Caucasians. They are not Black, and they look quite strange, but they are closer to Caucasians than anything else.

The Uighurs also seem to be an ancient race of some sort, perhaps having something to do with the birth of NE Asians and Caucasians.

Another ancient Caucasian group is the Orkney Islanders. They do not look different, but their DNA is very strange and shows links a long time ago to Siberians of all people.

Peabody responds, expanding on my answer:

Uyghurs are probably a mix between the “ANE” (Ancient Northeast Asians) and Mongols.

The group which birthed the Saami had been in Europe since 35 – 40k YBP. They likely admixed with Siberians.

Orkney Islanders are similar in that they’re mostly, if not entirely, of that old race (explaining the similarity). Most Europeans are mixed with newer Caucasoid types that brought agriculture (and later, the Indo-European languages), with the Sami being an exception.

I suspect Berbers split off ~30k YBP, but there’s a lot of weird data regarding mtDNA with them. Probably several migrations.

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Filed under Aborigines, Anthropology, Asians, Berbers, Europeans, Melanesians, North Africans, Oceanians, Papuans, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Siberians, Uighurs

Minority Languages in Siberia

John writes:

I read that the ancestors of modern day Aboriginal Canadians/Americans still live in parts of Siberia but they are fading away linguistically and culturally due to Russian culture, do you know anything about this? I know that the indigenous people of Russia were all Mongoloid and Siberia was all Mongoloid type people before the Russians came. So how is it that Russia is not causing harm to these cultures?

Russia has a pretty progressive attitude towards these folks. None of them are separatists, so there is not much to worry about. Russia doesn’t settle it with Russians because no Russian wants to go live in Siberia. I suspect they might even let some of these groups separate because I am not sure how much Russia cares about all these frozen wastes.

I just wrote a huge paper on these groups that will appear soon in a new book.

Russia lets all of these groups use their languages as much as they want to. They can study them in schools, or they can even use them as a medium for instruction as long as kids end up fluent in Russian too. They can declare one or more of their languages as official state languages alongside Russian. They can use the language alongside Russian in government and universities. They can have newspapers, magazines, TV and radio in their languages. The USSR supported language rights, and the new Russia has more or less inherited that mindset.

Quite a few of even the small groups related to Amerindians still speak their languages. For instance, the Altai languages are still widely spoken. Children are still being raised as native speakers in some of these languages. However, many are on their way out with most speakers age 40+. Some languages have only elderly speakers and are moribund.

Speakers of these languages often suffer from lack of funds for learning materials in the schools, and their media productions either lack funding or tend to get shut down due to financial issues.


Filed under Altaic, Amerindians, Culture, Education, Eurasia, Europeans, Language Families, Linguistics, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Russia, Russians, Siberia, Siberians, Sociolinguistics

Are Native Americans Ainu Types?

A commenter asks:

So are native Americans too some kind of “Ainu” because they look somewhat similar.

Not really, but they used to be 10-13,000 YBP. Then they slowly transitioned to a more Mongoloid type. There are a few. The ones down at the far south of South America near Tierra del Fuego have Australoid skulls, so racially they are Australoids. And there are some extinct tribes (but their descendants remain) in Baja California which were Australoid. The first Native Americans were definitely Australoid, but they transitioned over time. All of the Asiatics slowly transitioned over time Australoid -> Mongoloid. Mongoloid is a new race. It is not more than 9,000 years old.

Comparison of Amerindian races. An the far outlier, you can see the Yakut (Turkic) and Tundra Nentsi (Tungusic) of Siberia. Turkic and Tungusic are part of a very controversial group called Altaic, which most linguists reject. However, I think it is a real grouping.

Comparison of Amerindian races. An the far outlier, you can see the Yakut (Turkic) and Tundra Nentsi (Tungusic) of Siberia. Turkic and Tungusic are part of a very controversial group called Altaic, which most linguists reject. However, I think it is a real grouping.

Amerindians are really just Siberians. They mostly derive directly from the population around the Altai Mountains where Mongolia, Kazakhstan, China and Russia all come together. Their relatives are people like the Shor, the Altai, the Khakas, the Chulym, and I think the Tuvans. Also the Ket went into some more recent arrivals, the Na-Dene.

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Filed under Altaic, Amerindians, Anthropology, Language Families, Linguistics, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Siberians, Tungusic, Turkic

Northern and Southern Mongoloids

It is best to split the Mongoloid race into two branches – Northern and Southern Mongoloids.

Northern Mongoloids include the North Chinese, Koreans, Japanese, Xibe, Oroquens, Mongolians and various Siberians.

North Mongoloid - South Korean girl.

North Mongoloid – South Korean girl.

Southern Mongoloids include a large grouping including many of the peoples of South China – Tibetans, Dai, Burmese, Thai, Hmong, Khmer, Lao, Vietnamese, Malay, Filipinos, and most Indonesians.

Southern Chinese - Northern and Southern Mongoloid mix.

Southern Chinese – Northern and Southern Mongoloid mix.

Below is a pure Southern Mongoloid.

Southern Mongoloid - Kinaray-a Filipina.

Southern Mongoloid – Kinaray-a Filipina.

For comparison purposes, see a Japanese (N. Mongoloid) and Filipino (S. Mongoloid) mix below.

Japanese - Filipina mix. A mixture of N. Mongoloid and S. Mongoloid in this case results in a phenotype that is mostly N. Mongoloid.

Japanese – Filipina mix. A mixture of N. Mongoloid and S. Mongoloid in this case results in a phenotype that is mostly N. Mongoloid.

There is a lot of controversy on the boards about this issue. Some say that Southeast Asians are not pure Mongoloids – that instead they are Mongoloid-Australoids. Most of this critique comes from Chinese racists. Many of these Chinese are overseas Chinese who live in the Philippines and Indonesia. Chinese people are unbelievably racist as it is, but the overseas Chinese are some of the most insanely racist of all the Chinese, far more racist than the mainland Chinese.

This is all based on something called Han Supremacism. Han Supremacism is the underlying racist ideology behind almost all Chinese racism. Han Supremacism generally says that Northern Chinese are superior to Southern Chinese. The Southern Chinese were originally the Yue people, but they got conquered by the Han and become Hanized.

According to Han racism, only the Han are Chinese people. All of the other ethnic groups in China – and there are over 80 of them – are all “non-Chinese.” Hence the Taiwan aborigines, the Dai, the Tibetans, the Uighurs, the Mongolians, the Hmong, and some would say even the Cantonese, are all “non-Chinese.”

This is the most vicious Nazi-like ethnic nationalism, whereby only the majority ethnic group is defined as part of the nation and the rest of the residents of the land are said to be “foreigners.” This was precisely the fascist ethnic nationalism that overtook Europe in the 1930’s and 1940’s and it is essential to all fascist movements all over the globe. It was also a part of the ideology of the fascist Young Turks of Turkey when they murdered 2.5 million “non-Turks.” This same fascist ideology resurfaced again in the Balkans in the 1990’s.

The Han want to believe that Southeast Asians are inferior to Northeast Asians. This way of thinking is also prevalent among Japanese, but most Japanese don’t even bother to think about Southeast Asians. They are more concerned with Koreans. The reason for the inferiority of Southeast Asians, according to Han racists, is that they are part Australoid. Strictly speaking, this is not really true.

What is true is that the transition from Australoid to Mongoloid took place much later in Southeast Asia than it did in Northeast Asia. The NE Asian transition took place 9,000 years ago, and the SE Asian transition, at least in Vietnam, took place ~2,200 years ago. Nevertheless, actual Australoid genes in SE Asians are few in number. The Malay and the South Vietnamese have a few Papuan genes, but the numbers are very small. Filipinos only have a sprinkling of genes from the Negritos, similar to the Amerindian genes in many White Americans.

Southeast Asians do tend to have darker skin than Northeast Asians. The fact that they have lighter skin is one of the reasons why North Chinese look down on South Chinese so much.

Even Southern Chinese can have fairly dark skin – see the group below.

Southern Chinese. Note that some Southern Chinese can have fairly dark skin.

Southern Chinese. Note that some Southern Chinese can have fairly dark skin.

Some Filipinas have skin that is so dark that they could well be Blasians – Black-Asian mixes. However, the woman below is a pure Filipina.

Some Filipinas look very dark. This Filipina could even be a Blasian, but she is 100% Filipina.

Some Filipinas look very dark. This Filipina could even be a Blasian, but she is 100% Filipina.

While most Filipinos have no observable Negrito blood, in the urban slums, you can sometimes see Filipinos with Negrito elements. The girls below seem to be mostly Southern Mongoloid (Filipino) but they seem to have a small Negrito element.

Slum dwelling children in the Philippines. These kids appear to have some Negrito in them. Some Filipinos have observable Negrito elements, but most do not.

Slum dwelling children in the Philippines. These kids appear to have some Negrito in them. Some Filipinos have observable Negrito elements, but most do not.

Below are Filipino Negritos. They would be regarded as an Australoid people.

Pure Ati from the Philippines. These Negrito people have very low population numbers and may even be going extinct.

Pure Ati from the Philippines. These Negrito people have very low population numbers and may even be going extinct.

The Negrito woman and her child below have quite a bit of Mongoloid genes in them.

Ati mix

The true Australoid-Mongoloid types would be the Eastern Indonesians, the Melanesians, the Micronesians and the Polynesians. The Polynesians are ~50% Austronesian and ~50% Melanesian. Micronesians have more Melanesian in them. Melanesians are a mix primarily of Austronesian and Papuan.

A Timorese woman, a true Mongoloid-Australoid mix. Timorese are about 80% Melanesian and 20% Southern Mongoloid (Austronesian)

A Timorese woman, a true Mongoloid-Australoid mix. Timorese are about 80% Melanesian and 20% Southern Mongoloid (Austronesian)

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Filed under Anthropology, Asians, Burmese, Chinese (Ethnic), Ethnic Nationalism, Fascism, Filipinos, Hmong, Indonesians, Japanese, Khmer, Koreans, Lao, Melanesians, Micronesians, Mongolians, Nationalism, Negritos, Northeast Asians, Oceanians, Papuans, Physical, Political Science, Polynesians, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, SE Asians, Siberians, Taiwanese Aborigines, Thai, Tibetans, Vietnamese