Category Archives: Thai

A Bit about the Hmong

David Duke Nukem: Turban sounds kind of Aryan. I’m most fascinated by Hmong. Most Asians I know are Hmong but I keep things light with them. I prefer skulls because genetics seem to mishmash, an Australoid and Mongoloid seem worlds apart but not always genetically. Not that I discount genetics, an understanding of both is ideal. Hmong are a mystery, I often ponder how they’d be if they defeated the Han or at least weren’t booted.

Hi David, I did a lot of ethnography work on the Hmong. The Hmong homeland seems to be in Xinjiang going way back a long time ago. This may be the Desert Clay Pottery culture the commenter is talking about. There is a single Hmong line that goes all the way back 42,000 years and is only found in the Hmong, just to give you an idea of how far back they go.

The turban may be from interactions with some Muslims or Turkic peoples. Turkic peoples have been wearing turbans for a long time. The Hmong may have had some interactions with Turkic peoples back in their Xinjiang homeland. The Hmong are partly Caucasian, possibly owing to their Xinjiang homeland. Periodically, Hmong babies are born with blue and green eyes and blond from pure Hmong parents. At one time, I had photos of such Hmong. This would not be possible unless they had some recessive genes for such things somewhere in their genome. The Caucasian genes probably date back to their Xinjiang homeland where Asians and Caucasians have been interbreeding for a long time. Check out the Tocharians, a completely White race that lived in Xinjiang long ago.

Skulls are by far the best way to determine race. Genes are not that good. For instance, the Mani Negritos of Thailand have genes that look Thai. The Ati Negritos of the Philippines have genes that look Filipino. But that’s not what either of them are. Both groups are Australoid Negrito types by skulls and the skulls line up well with Tamils, Senoi, Melanesians, Papuans, Aborigines, etc.

The reason that those Negritos have genes that look like that is because they have been genetically swamped by Thai genes in Thailand and by Filipino genes in the Philippines. On the contrary, Filipinos and Thais have few Negrito genes because they were such a huge group. When a huge group breeds with a tiny group, the tiny group gets swamped with the genes of the large group, but the large group hardly gets any genes from the small group. It makes sense if you think about it.

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Filed under Aborigines, Anthropology, Asia, Asians, Cultural, Filipinos, Genetics, Hmong, Melanesians, Negritos, Oceanians, Papuans, Philippines, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, SE Asia, SE Asians, South Asians, Thai, Thailand

An Ancient Link Between India and Australia

Halal Butcher of Lhasa: Aboringinal Australians and their dingo dogs are linked to Dravidians in S. Asia according to scientists at Max Planck Institute of Germany.

Wow, that is great information. Thanks for that. I have not even read the link yet, but a link between early Indians and Aborigines has been suggested before.

There is a theory about the peopling of Australia that the present day Aborigines are not even the aboriginal people. The Kow Swamp people were an earlier group, and they were even more primitive than Aborigines. Some think the Kow Swamp person is not even Homo Sapiens. The skull is quite Erectus-like. It is nearly a relict hominid. Anyway the old theory is that these very primitive folks got replaced in two waves.

One wave was called Murrayians. This is an Ainu or Vedda-like group from the Thailand area. Skulls from Thailand 25,000 YBP resemble Aborigines. We know that there are very primitive people in Thailand 16,000 YBP whose skulls line up perfectly with the ancient Japanese Jomonese who later become the Ainu. There is still a Veddoid group in Thailand today called the Senoi.

There are drawings of Jomonese types even from Korea that show them as very robust types that do look quite Ainuid. It’s now known that the Ainu are a cold-adapted Australoid type by skulls, although their genes look Japanese and Korean. There has long been thought to be an Austronesian-like layer in Japanese which would logically go back to the ancient language spoken by these immigrants from Thailand. In other words, quite a few of the Japanese came up from the far south from SE Asia long ago. These earlier people mixed by Yayoi from Korea who invaded 2,300 YBP and slowly conquered the Ainu up the peninsula to the Far North. This conquest was apparently still underway in the modern era. The Japanese gene pool is ~20% Ainu.

Around the same time, the traditional model said that a very Ainuid-looking people moved into the Philippines. Logically these would have been these ancient Thai on the way to Japan stopping off in the Philippines.

The Murrayians are said to have come to Australia between 15-20,000 YBP. Logically these could have been these proto-Jomonese types from Thailand.

The second wave to Australia according to the old model were the Carpinterians. They came 10-15,000 YBP and are thought to have come from India. Logically these were Indian Australoid/Veddoid types from the south. All Indians looked like Aborigines (Australoid) until 8,000 YBP. The transition towards Caucasoid only occurred in the last 8,000 years. It may well have been this Carpinterian group that brought the dingo digs along with themselves in a seaward movement to Australia ~13,000 YBP.

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The Peopling of Indochina

jw: Hi Mr Lindsay, where did the South Chinese come from? Are the Indochinese the same as the South Chinese?

The Vietnamese people came from Southern China about 4-5,000 YBP. There is a Vietnamese legend that says that the forefather of the Vietnamese people came from an area in Southern China near a large lake, the name of which escapes me now. I believe that legend actually lines up with the facts. There was a huge Southern Chinese Yue invasion of Vietnam 2,300 YBP.

There was also a huge movement of Chinese from Yunnan into Thailand 900 YBP.

There was some sort of similar large movement into Laos. In addition, in the last 300-400 years, there was a large movement of Southern Chinese Hmong people into the north of Laos. The indigenous people are composed of a number of small Mon-Khmer speaking groups in the southeast of the country. The Khmu are an example of such a group. The Lao people proper are very similar to the Thai linguistically and anthropologically.

The Indochinese people have a lot of Chinese blood in them, particularly the Vietnamese and the Thai. In both Thailand and Vietnam, the population is heavily mixed between an indigenous group of Paleomongoloids and the newer influx of Neomongoloid Southern Chinese. A good representative of the earlier stock of Paleomongoloids in Vietnam would be the rather primitive Montagnard people in the Central Highlands of Vietnam.

Thailand has a large Indian component mixed in. Cambodia also has a large Indian component, and their Indian admixture is greater than that of the Thai. The Khmer are probably Paleomongoloid indigenous + Indians + a smaller number of Neomongoloid Chinese. The Khmer may have the largest Paleomongoloid component of the four nations.

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IQ’s of Southeast Asians Raised in the West

Drain Bamage writes:

Yes NNAMs. SEA’s are not as smart as Europeans when raised in the first world. You may see the visible top 20% being successful mirroring the successful 20% in their native countries

Although we have data on Filipinos, we have no data whatsoever on Laotians, Thais, Khmer, Viets or Indonesians in the US. There’s nothing there. However, I have met a number of Lao and Khmer in the US while teaching school and tutoring adults and my basic opinion was that they were not stupid. They seemed to be about on the level of the Viets and Thais. And these were very ordinary uneducated Lao and Khmer refugees who had little education and worked only menial jobs.

Also although there is a lot of overlap, in general the Lao, Khmer, Thai and Viets each had a certain “look” about them, and after a while I got so I could tell them apart pretty well. It’s bull that “they all look the same.”

I had one tutoree who was Mien, and he looked completely different from all the others. He also looked very Chinese. This is a group that like the Hmong originates in Southern China, but many have moved into Laos in the last 300 years. I also thought he might have been smarter than the average of the rest.

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Filed under Asians, Filipinos, Flynn Effect, Hmong, Immigration, Indonesians, Intelligence, Khmer, Lao, Psychology, Race/Ethnicity, SE Asians, Thai, Vietnamese

Possible Massive Increase in Real IQ in Thailand

There is some tantalizing new information of a 10 point rise in Thai IQ’s from 90-99*, which would put them equal to Viets, which probably makes sense since racially they are probably not a lot different and they line up right next to each other on gene charts. And both of line right up next to South Chinese on those same charts. One wonders about a nine point real IQ rise, but according to Steve Sailer (despite his execrable politics, the man has his uses) the Thai government started taking IQ very seriously a while back, talking about it a lot, writing about it, issuing directives and whatnot.

I believe they found that the whole place was iodine deficient, so they dosed the whole country with iodine somehow (adding it to the salt?. I believe Sailer discussed something about the iodine issue, but when he was writing, they had only found the whole place to be an iodine sinkhole and they were talking about dosing the country, but I do not think they had gotten around to it yet.

Wa-la, next we see a 10 point IQ rise. This is actually what we could expect from iodine supplementation alone.

I have met both Thais and Viets. Thais struck me as much smarter than one might expect. Quite a few of them, both male and female, were out and out “dorky nerds with glasses” types, which is what you might expect from a hidden high IQ population.

I dated a Thai woman for a while who had a Masters Degree and worked as an accountant. She was also a millionaire. Oh yes she was also stone cold knockout gorgeous. She was insanely in love with me, but that’s another story.

I went to a Thai restaurant recently, and I was talking to the owner a bit about race and the history of Thailand, and I was stunned at how educated he was. I met another Thai once who had fought in the Vietnam War with the Thai army and he seemed way smarter than he ought to be also. My basic takeaway from dealing with these people is that they are not stupid.

*If someone can find that study for me, I would appreciate it. It came out a few years back and people were shocked about the IQ rise. Me? Not so much. Color me “I told you so.”

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Filed under Asia, Asians, Flynn Effect, Health, Intelligence, Nutrition, Psychology, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, SE Asia, SE Asians, Thai, Thailand, Vietnamese

Every Race Is a New Race

From here.

This is so perfect.

Problem is that ancient Caucasoids look anything but Caucasoid, and ancient Northern Eurasians look anything but Northern Eurasian. Both ancient Caucasoids and ancient Northern Eurasians looked like Australoids or Paleomongoloids phenotypically.

It is important to note that phenotypically, all races are modern.

The Aborigines showed up ~15,000 YBP (13-17,000 YBP). Much more archaic types are known before then, including some that look like Homo Erectus.

Even the Khoisan are only known from 12,000 YBP.

Modern Europeans do not show up until 11,000 YBP. Before that, Europeans genetically and phenotypically resemble Arabs. The “White race” is very new. Sorry Alt Reichers.

The modern Negroid race does not show up until 6-12,000 YBP.

Modern Amerindians only show up 8,000 YBP. Before that, they look first Australoid (Lacondon Woman) and then Australoid-Paleomongoloid transitional or Ainuid (Kennebunk Man).

Polynesians and Micronesians only show up 3,000 YBP. Before that, no one lived on those islands.

SE Asians are quite new and have only appeared in the last 5,000 years. Before that, they looked like Aborigines, Negritos, Veddoids or Melanesians (Australoids).

Modern Thais only show up 900 YBP. Before that, they were Paleomongoloids.

Modern South Indians only appear 8,000 YBP. Before that, they looked like Veddoids types or Aborigines (Australoids).

All skulls from Vietnam, Thailand and Malaysia from 2,500-25,000 YBP appear Australoid. They look like either Aborigines, Veddoids or Melanesians. Vietnamese anthropologists have studied Vietnamese skulls from 21,000 YBP to present, and the unmistakable conclusion is that the originally Australoid Melanesian skulls slowly from 21,000 YBP become more gracile and finally evolve into full Neomongoloid only 2,300 YBP.

Early Northern Eurasians may have looked like Australoids.

One of the oldest Proto-Caucasoid skulls from 35,000 YBP in the Caucasus has been classed as Australoid.

At the archeological digs in Northern China, skulls prior to 9,000 YBP look like Aborigines (probably Ainuid Australoids). At 9,000 YBP, they transition into Mongoloids, maybe with Caucasoid input.

Anyway, ancient Caucasoids look anything but. 22,000 YBP Caucasoids from Central Europe look more like the Makah Indians of NW Washington State than anyone else. So Europeans at this time looked like Paleomongoloids.

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Paleomongoloids and Neomongologoids in Northeastern India

Sagar Boro writes, in regard to this piece:

Who are the Nagas??? What about the people of Northeast India like the Bodos, Apatani, Mizo, Kuki and Manipuri?

The Nagas are one of the best examples of a Paleomongoloid that I can think of. They reside, like the rest you listed, in Northeastern India. Sometimes I wonder if the Nagas are Australoids, but they are probably just transtionals. But they are quite primitive and archaic in phenotype. Go look at some photos of them and see.

I do not know of the rest, but I am familiar with the the Mizos are probably Neomongoloids. It is a bit odd to have Neos in this part of the world, but many Burmese are Neos, as are Thais. There are many Neos in Tibet, Bhutan, Sikikim and Yunnan. The Mizos are very advanced. Go look at some photos and see. The women are very beautiful and look sort of like Japanese women or maybe Thai women.

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Racial Categorization- The Oceanian Paradox

ultracool writes: This is a very interesting and insightful post, I see you are very intelligent and bold to write all this stuff, Robert. Still I think the problem with genes is that they don’t always match appearance, I think that were you to sort races according to physical traits only, you could put most Oceanians in the same race as Africans, as they share several traits like dark skin, thick lips and kinky hair, though I am not sure about Australians as they have quite a distinct look.

Even if you do physical appearance, you cannot throw those people in with Africans. Those people are Australoids – Melanesians, Papuans, Negritos, Senoi, Veddoids, Tamils, Aborigines, a few Polynesians, Ainu and a few Amerindians such as Tierra del Fuegans and some Baja Californians have very similar skulls. All of the skulls plot right together on a chart. Granted, Australoid and African skulls are close to each other on charts, but they do plot differently.

Polynesians and Micronesians are different – they are an Australoid-Mongoloid mix. Their genes plot with Asians, and their skulls plot differently from Australoids. However, some Polynesian skulls plot next to other Australoids such as the Ainu.

Australoid genes are all over the map. Melanesian genes plot next to other Oceanians with a subgroup of Island SE Asians that also includes some Indonesians. Philippines Negritos plot with Filipinos. Thai Negritos plot with Thais. Andaman Islanders plot off on their own, possibly in two completely different major races. Veddoids and Tamils plot with the other Indian Caucasians. Papuans and Aborigines are related only to each other and even then only very distantly, and they are very far from everyone else. Next to Africans and Andaman Islanders, Papuans and Aborigines are are the other oldest races. Outside of Africa, Andaman Islanders and Thai Negritos are the oldest races.

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The Australoid-Mongoloid Transition in Asia and the Americas

The first Amerindians from 9-14,000 YBP were Australoids. All of Asia was Australoid until 9,000 YBP. North Asia transitioned away from Australoid at that time, but the transition out of Australoid happened much later in south.

For instance, the full transition did not occur until 2,200 YBP in Vietnam, and in all probability, Filipinos, Malays, Indonesians, Nicobar Islanders, Taiwanese aborigines, Montagnards, some Thai hill tribes, Nagas and probably others never fully transitioned over and hence are referred to as Paleomongoloids. The lack of full transition in the south is due to the Australoid-Mongoloid transition occurring so much later down there.

Whether Amerindians are a Paleo or Neo Mongoloids has never been completely answered. The Na Dene people in the Far North may be more Neo. There were still a few Australoid tribes at contact, and an Australoid tribe called the Pericua lasted for some time in Baja California. Whatever is left of the Yaghan and other Patagonian tribes may well be Australoids also.

However, the Eskimo or Inuit people are full Neomongoloids as are the peoples of Siberia.

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Thais and Vietnamese Compared Racially

Who are more archaic? Vietnamese or Thai?

Thai, I think. Thais transitioned to Neomongoloid probably only 900 YBP. Vietnamese transitioned to Neomongoloid 2,300 YBP. The more recent the transition, the more archaic features will be preserved. The older the transition, the more the archaic features will tend to have gone out. This is because generally humans sexually select for progressive features and against archaic features, at least nowadays anyway.

Southern Chinese – Most progressive Southern Neomongoloid with few if any archaic features. Transition to Neomongoloid probably 4-5,000 YBP.

Vietnamese – Moderately progressive Southern Neomongoloid with some archaic features. Transition to Neomongoloid 2,300 YBP.

Thai – Least progressive Southern Neomongoloid with more archaic features. Transition to Neomongoloid 900 YBP.

In all three cases, the previous stock that transitioned to Neomongoloid was probably an Australoid type, even in Southern China. This is why Afrocentrists go on and on about “Black Chinese” –  there were quite a few dark people with frizzy hair in Southern China 5,000 YBP.

Vietnamese certainly transitioned from a Melanesian type. The earliest Vietnamese skulls from 22,000 YBP are clearly Melanesian.

Thais probably transitioned from some sort of an Australoid type, but it’s not known which. It may have been a Veddoid type.

In the case of the Vietnamese and the Thai, the transition to Neomongoloid occurred as a consequence of a mass invasion or movement of Southern Chinese into their regions.

There was a huge invasion of Vietnam by Cantonese Chinese 2,300 YBP. That is why Vietnamese is full of Cantonese borrowings.

There was a very large movement o unknown character by Yunnanese Chinese into Thailand 900 YBP that appears to have significantly changed the Thai phenotype.

The case of Southern China is less clear, but as Northern Chinese transitioned to Neomongoloid 9,000 YBP, 4,500 years before the Southern Chinese, the Southern Chinese transition to Neomongoloid probably occurred due to a mass movement of Northern Chinese to the south. But that is only conjecture.

Also more progressive phenotypes tend to have higher IQ’s than more archaic phenotypes. I am not exactly sure why that is honestly.

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