Category Archives: Andaman Islanders

What Race Is This Person (Singapore)?

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An interesting phenotype from Singapore.

This is the aunt of a friend of mine. The family is from Singapore. They are part of an ethnic group called the Pernakans, a Southern Chinese group that moved to Malaysia ~600 years ago for some reason, possibly due to overcrowding in Fujian or worse, the terrible wars that periodically raged through the region.

Chinese groups have been leaving from this part of Southern China for a very long time now, especially in the last 200 years. In the past couple of centuries, this part of China has become very crowded. Possibly as a result, wild and vicious wars periodically raged through the area, sometimes killing 100,000’s of people. If you study Chinese history, you will hear about these wars a lot. It is not uncommon to read that invaders conquered several large cities and exterminated the whole populations of perhaps 300,000 people, men, women and children. This is how the Chinese have often fought wars. Chinese wars are unbelievably vicious and savage.

The Pernakans moved to Malaysia, and over time, bred in with Dutch and Portuguese and to a lesser extent British Europeans. All three were colonists in the region. I believe that they were Min speakers, but their Hokkien has gotten so changed, in particular from massive borrowings from Malay, that these languages in general are no longer intelligible with Amoy or Taiwanese Hokkien Proper.

Most Pernakans now are somewhat Eurasian, Chinese crossed with Dutch, Portuguese and sometimes British. The Pernakans had their own patriarchal culture and were known as very hard workers, often at manual labor type jobs like farming, timber harvest are working on rubber plantations. They committed little crime and had very orderly societies. The European colonists marveled at their high level of civilization. They did keep slaves, but they probably treated their slaves better than any slaves have ever been treated, and in many cases, slaves were freed.

Over time, most Pernakans also bred in with Malays. Pernakans are now a Chinese/Malay/European race, but the Asiatic tends to be prominent over the European in the stock. The mixing of cultures over 600 years in Malaysia resulted in some very interesting fine cuisine.

Many of these Chinese migrated to Singapore, where they, along with Teochew speakers (another Min group) and a large group of Cantonese Chinese, form what is known as the Singaporean Chinese, one of the wealthiest and most economically advanced ethnic groups on Earth. There is still a division of labor in Singapore, with Chinese on top, Malays on the bottom, and Southern Indian Dravidian speakers in between. Nevertheless all three groups are substantially mixed by this point. Most Chinese have Malay blood, and a lot of Malays have some Chinese in them. Malays and Indians are now intermarrying quite a bit. There is some ethnic conflict but not a lot possibly due to the wealth and everyone being so mixed.

Although this woman has a somewhat archaic phenotype (note prognathism), these archaic types are fairly common in Southern China. Many can be seen in the mountains of Yunnan Province. The archaism may be due to incomplete transition from Australoid -> Mongoloid, as the transition happened much later in Southern China than in Northern China, and prominent Australoid types were common in the far south of China only 3-4,000 YBP.

I also believe that this woman may be admixed with Caucasian. And I think the Malay admixture is quite clear. Perhaps I am mistaken, but I think I see some Vedda influence here. That would not be unusual, as Malays were Veddoids only until quite recently, and the Senoi are Veddoids to this day. The Mani Negritos are also still extant.

The transition in Malaysia went from Australoid Negritos (Mani) and Orang Asli -> Australoid Veddas (Senoi) -> Paleomongoloid Southeast Asians (modern Malays). The Malays appear to be aware of this transition, as they state that the Mani and Orang Asli are their ancestors. The bloodline of the Orang Asli goes back 72,000 YBP, so this group has been present in Malaysia since the very first Out of Africa groups, and their archaism is about on a par with the Andaman Islanders, another Australoid group which is also the remains of some of the earliest OOA groups.

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The India-Australia Connection

The genetic link between India and Australia is not conclusive. Most recent Genetics paper on the earlier mentioned links has found no recent links.

Also Dravidian and Veddoid are 2 different races. Some Veddoid have taken up Dravidian languages just as other Veddoid have taken up Indo-Aryan.

In Sri Lanka is the only distinct Vedda population and they speak a creole that is neither Dravidian nor Indo-Aryan; it shares more with Indo-Aryan but has a substratum that is distinct and different from Dravidian and Indo-Aryan. India does not have distinct Vedda populations as they have linguistically and culturally assimilated into the surrounding Dravidian,Indo-Aryan and Munda speaking populations.

I would certainly agree that a recent India-Australia link is not proven.

My argument was that those people we call Aborigines are new people. Supposedly they supplanted most of the original people. They are said to have come from India and Thailand 12-17,000 YBP. Any genetic relation that far back will not show up in genes.

Furthermore, Veddoids and other primitive types in India (yes, there are some in India, not just Sri Lanka) have skulls that plot Australoid next to Papuans, Melanesians and Aborigines. If there is no connection, why do they have the same skulls? Tamils also have Australoid skulls showing the same connections.

There is a very ancient and primitive group in Nepal called the Nahali. The language was long thought to be an isolate and was recently thought to be extinct. However some speakers were found not long ago. More recent though highly controversial studies suggest that Nahali is an Indo-Pacific language related to the languages of New Guinea. I believe this connection is correct. If there is no connection between India and Australia, why the language connection?

Also, the Andaman Islanders are Australoids by skulls. So once again we have an Australian connection with the most primitive people of India by skulls. Some theories suggest that the Andaman languages, long considered isolates, are related to Indo-Pacific languages. Joseph Greenberg thought so. I am not sure how well that is backed up, but if it is true, once again, we see a connection between India and Australia.

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Racial Categorization- The Oceanian Paradox

ultracool writes: This is a very interesting and insightful post, I see you are very intelligent and bold to write all this stuff, Robert. Still I think the problem with genes is that they don’t always match appearance, I think that were you to sort races according to physical traits only, you could put most Oceanians in the same race as Africans, as they share several traits like dark skin, thick lips and kinky hair, though I am not sure about Australians as they have quite a distinct look.

Even if you do physical appearance, you cannot throw those people in with Africans. Those people are Australoids – Melanesians, Papuans, Negritos, Senoi, Veddoids, Tamils, Aborigines, a few Polynesians, Ainu and a few Amerindians such as Tierra del Fuegans and some Baja Californians have very similar skulls. All of the skulls plot right together on a chart. Granted, Australoid and African skulls are close to each other on charts, but they do plot differently.

Polynesians and Micronesians are different – they are an Australoid-Mongoloid mix. Their genes plot with Asians, and their skulls plot differently from Australoids. However, some Polynesian skulls plot next to other Australoids such as the Ainu.

Australoid genes are all over the map. Melanesian genes plot next to other Oceanians with a subgroup of Island SE Asians that also includes some Indonesians. Philippines Negritos plot with Filipinos. Thai Negritos plot with Thais. Andaman Islanders plot off on their own, possibly in two completely different major races. Veddoids and Tamils plot with the other Indian Caucasians. Papuans and Aborigines are related only to each other and even then only very distantly, and they are very far from everyone else. Next to Africans and Andaman Islanders, Papuans and Aborigines are are the other oldest races. Outside of Africa, Andaman Islanders and Thai Negritos are the oldest races.

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Veddoids In Modern and Ancient Asia: A Predominant Type?

Pepperoncini writes:

I think when you say Australoid, you mean Veddoid, and Vedda people are distinct and different from Dravidians, including Tamils. Tamils have a range of phenotypes. Tamil-speaking groups can range from very dark with low nose bridge and broad noses to dark, normal nose bridge and average nasal index.

Whatever the Tamils may appear to be, when we put Tamil skulls on a graph, they plot with the Senoi, Negritos, Andaman Islanders, Papuans and similar groups.

The Senoi are an Australoid group that are best seen as Veddoids transplanted to Southern China and then to Thailand 5,000 YBP. From 5-15,000 YBP, Veddoid types may have been widespread throughout Asia. The pre-Jomon in Thailand 16,000 YBP have skulls that plot closely with the Jomonese later in Japan at 13,000 YBP. If you compare photos of modern day Ainu people with Veddoids from India, it is clear that the Ainu are a depigmented group of Northern Veddoids.

There are also traces of Veddoid types in the Philippines long ago where reports of oddly Caucasoid-looking people appear in the anthropological record. They may have been part of the group that moved from Thailand to southern Japan between 13-16,000 YBP because the Philippines would be along this route.

So also would be Australia.

And indeed, the first modern Aborigines appear in the form of a group called Murrayans that arrived between 15-20,000 YBP. The best guess is that the Murrayans were the same group of Veddoids that were present in Thailand at this time and the migration may have part of the same Thailand-Japan migration that the pre-Jomonese undertook.

This is probably not the only Veddoid migration to Australia. Between 10-15,000 YBP, a group called the Carpinterians arrived, apparently from Southern India. Consider that all people in India are termed “Australoid” before 8,000 YBP when the Australoid-Caucasoid transition begins possibly with the arrival of the first actual Dravidians, probably Elamites from western Iran. These pre-8,000 YBP Australoids in India then could probably best be called Veddoids.

Australoid types were present long before in India in India and Southeast Asia as skulls from India and Thailand 25,000 YBP are said to resemble Aborigines. Their relationship to the Australoid Veddoid group that shows up at least 16,000 YBP is not known.

The modern Aborigines are a mix between Carpinterians and Murrayans that arrived 13-17,000 YBP in the subcontinent and subsequently interbred.

Before that, some very different and even more archaic people lived in Australia.

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The Australoids: The First Out of Africa People

I wonder how Australoids got to Australia from India, or was it a reverse situation?

The original Australoids were just the Out of Africa people. The OOA people soon became what we now know of as Australoids. No one quite knows what they look like, but Negritos like the Andaman Islanders and the Orang Asli in Thailand have the oldest genes going all the way back to the original OOA people or even before.

I think the Orang Asli genes go back 72,000 YBP, which is before that supposed OOA event. However, there were also anatomically modern humans in India 75,000 YBP who were mostly wiped out in a huge volcano that killed a large % of the humans on Earth. So there may have been a couple of OOA events, one prior to 75,000 YBP and the more recent one at ~50-60,000 YBP.

At one time, Australoids were spread out over much of the globe. They were generalized across all of Asia and even into Southern Russia. In fact, the original Caucasoids may have been Australoid. Of course, the people of Australia are Australoids, but their history there is a bit more complicated.

 

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The Breathtaking Effects of Culture Should Not Be Underestimated

hypothetically, if you are good at reading people, you are good at sensing their true motivations. and we know that HBD’ers and racists generally will often say that “blacks won’t civilize after we give them civilization.”

If the HBD’ers and racists say that, they are just wrong.

My point would be that West Africans are the “raw material” of US Blacks. That’s their starting point. And I am 100% certain that that’s where the US Blacks would be without 400 years in the West.

The difference in behavior between US Blacks and West Africans is in my opinion shocking. I started to ask myself why this was. US Blacks are 25% White, but are those fancy White genes really enough to do much to counteract the 75% Black genes? A genetic conclusion seemed unlikely. The only other thing I could think of was culture.

Acculturation. Civilization if you will. The American Black, the Negro, is simply the product of 400 years of civilizing Western Christian higher civilization. And the difference between US Blacks and their true raw material, the pre-contact Africans, seems so incomprehensible that one is tempted to conclude that they are from two different planets. In some ways, the differences were so extreme that there seemed to be no way that this change could be due to culture, but apparently it was.

Even HBD’ers and race realists should not dismiss culture, acculturation and civilization in radically changing the behavior of human groups. Culture is what I would call a “super-environment.” It is so potentially powerful that it is almost scary.

In addition to my recent exposure to West Africans, I have now read many explorer notes from the first White explorers to Africa. The notes are unbelievable. They found such savagery, brutality, viciousness, sheer evil, stupidity, sloth, dullness, horror, selfishness, etc. that it is almost hard to comprehend. In short, many humans in an uncivilized state are unbelievably awful. They are simply brutes on the level of raw animals or even worse. They’re not even Hobbesian. They are worse. They’re a walking idiotic, insipid horrorshow.

I read those accounts not so much as an account of the inferiority of Blacks in a primitive state. I saw those pre-contact Blacks instead as emblematic of simply humanity in the wild.

And indeed, uncivilized Melanesians, Polynesians, Taiwanese, Andaman Islanders, Australians, Papuans, Amerindians, etc. acted or continue to act somewhere near as bad as the pre-contact Blacks in these reports, if not even worse. Melanesians, Taiwanese, Polynesians have dramatically improved since contact 150 years ago.

The Taiwanese are as civilized as Japanese. 90 years ago, they were headhunters.

150 years of modernizing civilization turned even the shockingly vicious Maori into “new men.”

I saw a recent report of a contact with Andaman Islanders, and they make modern West Africans seem like choirboys. The level of sheer raw animalism was stunning.

A crew studying these people invited a few Andaman Islander women onto their boat. Within the space of maybe 30 minutes, the women were caught stealing over and over. They would try to rip off anything they saw. It was explained to them that these items belonged to other humans and were not theirs, and they just didn’t get it. They even tried to pull watches off men so they could steal them.

They also made a great big racket for no reason and basically acted like 3 year olds. With one crucial difference. In that half hour, the women repeatedly approached different men on the boat, started grabbing the men’s bodies and genitals, grabbing their own breasts and genitals, exposing themselves, and grinding up against the men. What was going on?

These animal-like women tried repeatedly to fuck several different men on the boat, going from man to man and trying on new men after one man pushed her away. If allowed to, they would have fucked these White men right there in the boat in full view of everyone with scarcely a care in the world.

That sort of behavior is far worse than you will see in any modern West African, and it probably shows that Africans not only reached a higher civilization level pre-contact or 200 years’ experience with the modern world in terms of colonization and modernity has dramatically improved and civilized even Africans beyond their pre-contact state.

Which is truly amazing, considering that in my opinion, these people generally act awful. Sure, right now they seem like the worst, but you should have seen them 200 years ago! They’ve gotten so much better that it’s like night and day. And Andaman Islanders even today are more savage and animalistic than even most pre-contact Africans. One wonders if there is a lower limit on human savagery. It almost seems like there literally is no bottom.

Some Amerindian tribes in the Amazon are still stunningly vicious, primitive and animalistic, though their societies function unlike collapsed West Africa, and they are not nearly as primal as Andaman Islanders or even pre-contact Africans.

Yet Amazonian tribes can be monstrous. Put a bowl of food down in front of a Piraha, and he will eat every single thing on the plate, not leaving a scrap. Whatever they have is used up immediately. They don’t save anything because they don’t even have the concept. They have two numbers – one and more, and only a few colors – lighter, darker and not much else. They don’t believe in time and could care less about calendars, watches, etc. which they consider meaningless and idiotic.

They are so ethnocentric that they consider all non-Piraha to be so utterly inferior that they are barely even worth talking to. Shown objects of modernity, they laugh and reject them as idiocies created by preposterously inferior humans.  They refuse to learn Portuguese as it is the language of  “those moronic inferior fools.”

In recent years, a number of uncontacted Amazonian tribes have disappeared. Others were thought to have vanished but instead were reduced to very low levels, and they slowly built back up. Over and over in reports of Amazonian tribes in the 20th Century one reads, “genocided.” The reports say, “genocided in 1944 by unknown group,” or “attempted genocide recently, few remain.” It was incredible how many tribes had not just engaged in pointless and horrific tribal warfare, but had either been exterminated or had experienced attempted exterminations by other groups.

Because this is what man does in a primitive state. He wars with all the groups around him, and it is common that the wars become so diabolical that one group simply overruns the other group and attempts to wipe them off the face of the Earth – men, women, children, old men, anyone and everyone.

This is what humans do. We exterminate each other. Genocide is a normal behavior for humans, a way of life. It’s how we live.

A tribe called the Yanonamo is one of the most vicious and unhinged tribes recorded. The men are frighteningly violent. They beat their wives with great frequency, and children are regularly beaten too. Childhood for a Yanonamo child is an endless series of beatings. The men engage in continuous tribal warfare with other groups in which fatalities occur regularly. In addition, Yanonamo men murder each other regularly over disputes, which are quite common and often heated. It has been estimated that by age 40, every surviving Yanonamo man has committed at least one murder.

The tribal Afar in Ethiopia fetishize violence and murder. Tribal war is common, and almost all Afar men past a certain age have murdered another man, usually from another group. In fact, an Afar woman will not consider marrying any man until he has committed at least one murder! You want to get laid? You better start killing people. A man who murders more than one man becomes better in the eyes of the women, and many of the best Afar women hold out for men who have committed 3, 4 or better yet 5 murders. But the ultimate Alphas, the men sought after by every Afar women, are the Ted Bundys of the tribe. These men have killed 10 or more murders. They are the ultimate studs.

I do not believe that all humans in an uncivilized state act awful and horrific. But a lot of them do, and as you can see, races capable of the nadir of Hobbesian brutishness span across the human genome. Even IQ scores widely vary from ~62 for pure Aborigines all the way up to 90 for the Maori. So you see, even dramatically increasing the intelligence of a human in the wild doesn’t necessarily civilize him or make him act better. A full two standard deviations rise, and the brutality and evil either remains the same, or possibly in the case of Maori, becomes even worse.

What is the point of this post? That civilization, which is really just acculturation and cultural change, has striking effects on humans. The civilizing mission is a good thing and most if not all groups acting badly or engaging in primitive or less civilized behavior are capable of acting better, even breathtaking better, simply via the super-environment known as culture, acculturation, or civilization.

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Is Dravidian Related to Japanese?

Thirdeye writes:

The Tamil-Japonic connection isn’t quite as off the wall as one might think at first glance. There’s apparently a strong Andaman-Indonesian language connection. The convention of repeat plurals seems to have found its way to Japan. There’s also some similarity between the Finno-Ugric languages, which are Uralic outliers in a sea of Indo-European languages, and Dravidian languages that have a remnant in Pakistan. Contact between proto-Dravidian-Uralic and Altaic languages is a real possibility.

If Uralic is close to anything, it is close to Altaic and Indo-European and probably even closer to Chukto-Kamchatkan, Eskimo-Aleut, Yukaghir and Nivkhi. Yukaghir may actually be Uralic itself, or maybe the family is called “Uralic-Yukaghir.”

There is no connection between Austronesian (Indonesian) and the Andaman Islanders. Austronesian is indeed related to Thai though (Austro-Tai); in my opinion, this has been proven. If the Andaman languages are related to anything at all, they may be related to some Papuan languages and an isolate in Nepal called Nihali. A good case can be made connecting Nihali with some of the Papuan languages.

Typology is not that great of way to classify. Typology is areal and it spreads via convergence. What you are looking in search genetic relationship among languages more more than anything else is morphology. After that, a nice set of cognates.

There is probably no connection between Dravidian and Uralic in particular. Dravidian is outside of most everything in Eurasia. It if is close to anything, it might be close to Afro-Asiatic. There also looks to be a connection with Elamite.

Dravidian and Afro-Asiatic are probably older than the rest of the Eurasian languages, and they were located further to the south. Afro-Asiatic is very old, probably ~15,000 YBP.

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Human Safari

Of the Jarawa Negritos in the Andaman Islands.

Read the comments. All of the Indian Hindus defend this garbage, and most of the superior Westerners condemn it. This is because Western values are superior and Indian Hindu values are simply inferior. That is all there is to it. It is not ok to treat human beings like they are animals in a zoo. Sorry, no.

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What Race Are the People of India?

OMG, OMG, the holy city of Caucasoid (i.e.White) India full of high caste Aryans:

Knew you’d love it, Robert… any comment?

Oh, BTW, dare I recommend blue Lassi from Lassi dudes? Looks awesome!

3 cheers for the Pan-Aryanism! ^o^

This guy’s making fun of me. Those are not all high caste Indians. Sure, Varnasi is a sickening mess. I’ve written about it a lot here.

I wrote extensively about the races of India earlier, but I lacked some good information that conclusively shows that many of the people of South India are actually not Caucasoids and that there is a large Australoid element in India, not only on skulls but on genes also. On genes, many South Indians plot close to Andaman Islanders, who are probably their ancient relatives

Indians are actually mixed between Australoids and Caucasoids, not just on skulls, but on genes too. I had a chart on this a while ago, but I lost the link to it. South Indians seem to be quite Australoid. North Indians less so. Indians vary. Some are almost pure Australoid, and others are almost pure Caucasoid, particularly in the north. Of course there are Asians in the East and in the far northwest.

There is nothing innately superior about Caucasoid types anyway. We can be as screwed up as any race out there. Our IQ’s range widely. Many Arabid IQ’s are quite low. Qatar has an IQ of only 79, and Nepal, a Caucasoid-Asian mix, also has a 79 IQ. Afghanistan has an IQ of 82 as does Morocco and largely Caucasoid Pakistan.

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The Difference Between Phenotypical Race and Genetic Race

A commenter asks me some questions about my races of man post.

I believe that a bit more changes are necessary to be made to the race classifications you have here Robert. I believe that the Garos, Nicobarese, Negritos (Orang Asli, Semang, Aeta, Senoi, etc.), Melanesians, Micronesians, and possibly Ainus should be classed as Australoid.

Now, hear me out if you will: They have mixed to varying degrees with Mongoloids, but still maintain Australoid appearances, so it is nonsensical (I believe) to class them as Mongoloid simply due to some Mongoloid admixture.

I also believe that a separate “mixed-race” macro category (or “non-classifiable”) category should be made for those in your categories who are of mixed-race. Caucasoid-Mongoloid: Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Uighurs, Tatars, and Hazara. Caucasoid-Negroid: Djiboutians, Eritreans, Mauritanians, Bejas, Somalis, Ethiopians, and certain mixed-race Berbers (all Berbers shouldn’t be classed as belonging to one macro race).

And those certain Pacific Islanders, be they Melanesians or Micronesian, who are obviously a Australoid-Mongoloid mixture.

The Nepalese are a mixture of Indo-Aryans from India as well as Mongoloid groups from the Himalayas (so they are a Caucasoid-Mongoloid mixture).

The Ainus have mixed with the Mongoloid Japanese due to promoted miscegenation by the Japanese government, so many Ainus now have Mongoloid genes, but I still think that they are distinct enough from Mongoloids to be possibly classed as Australoid (which you yourself have called them).

I thank the poster for his input.

The problem here is that the poster is confusing phenotypical race with genetic race. The races of man post dealt only with genetic race, using Cavalli-Sforza as a template and then expanding from there. The problem is that genetic race often does not line up with phenotypical race. For instance, some types are Australoid by phenotype, but not by genes. Only the Andaman Islanders, Papuans and Aborigines seem to fall into an Australoid race by genes.

The Garos are similar to other groups in the far east of India such as the Naga. The Nicobarese are very strange, but the general idea is that they are just archaic SE Asian types, migrated down from Yunnan Province in China maybe 5000 YBP with some of the original Austroasiatic speakers.

I have no genetic data on the Orang Asli or the Senoi. The Senoi at least are certainly Australoid by phenotype. Once again, these are ancient Proto-Malay early Austroasiatic types migrated down from Yunnan 5000 YBP or so. The Orang Asli are some of the original people of the planet outside of Africa, but are they phenotypically Australoid?

The Aeta are phenotypically Australoid, yes, but genetically, they are closer to Filipinos than to anyone else.

Melanesians and Micronesians genetically fit into a nice little category within the Oceanians of the SE Asian race even though they have some Australoid mix – the Melanesians much more than the Micronesians.

A mixed race macro-race of some sort did not make sense to me in terms of a rational classification, though I did think about it. Some groups are just too recent to be classified at all, such as Hispanic mestizos and mulattos.

For groups like the Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, Uzbeks, Turkmen, Uighurs, Tatars, and Hazara, I had to look up percentages of Asian and Caucasian. If they were a bit more Caucasian, they went into Caucasian. If they were more Asian, they went into Asian. Groups for which I had no data were not listed. It was scatter-shot, but I could not think of anything else to do.

For the Djiboutians, Eritreans, Mauritanians, Bejas, Somalis, Ethiopians, and certain mixed-race Berbers, I did try to fit most of these into some race or another. However, I will agree with you here that I may need a new category. I have long contemplated a sort of Horner Major Race, splitting the Horners off from the rest of the Africans. The Horners are just too different from the rest of the Africans. They are about 1/2 way between Africans and Caucasians.

I realize that the Berbers are a mess, but there was not much I could do with them, and I don’t want to make a major race out of them. Sometimes you just have to improvise.

The Nepalese fit well into Caucasian on most charts. Granted, they are some of the most diverse Caucasians out there, but so are the Indians for that matter.

Although the Ainu are phenotypically Australoid, genetically they are quite close to the Japanese and the Koreans, so it makes sense to call them NE Asians genetically.

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