Category Archives: Northeast Asians

Our Common Australoid Past

Khan1983 writes:

I have read somewhere that Southeast Asian and North Eurasian split around 50,000 years ago while Caucasian and Northeast Asian split around 30,000 years ago. By genetic, would this mean that Mongoloid phenotype is just a convergent evolution of both Northeast Asian and some Southeast Asian (S. Chinese & Vietnamese)?

I doubt if the figure for Southeast Asian and North Eurasian splitting at 50,000 YBP is correct. The Asian race began in northern Vietnam 51,000 YBP. But who did they split off from? Was this the date of the SE Asian-North Eurasian split? I do not think anyone knows what those people looked like but skulls from 25,000 YBP in Thailand look like Aborigines and skulls from Vietnam 22,000 YBP look Melanesian. Also skulls from India 25,000 YBP look like Aborigines.

And about these elusive North Eurasian people, lost in the mists of time – could the very mysterious Caucasoid-like Chukchi and Ainu be all that remains?

Caucasian and Northeast Asian could not have split off that late. Cavalli-Sforza says that Caucasian split off in part from Northeast Asian 42,000 YBP. We do not know exactly what those people looked like, but a skull from 7,000 years after the creation of the Caucasian race from southern Russia has been characterized as Australoid.

So from 22,000-35,000 YBP in a belt from Caucasus – India – Thailand – Vietnam, all humans were apparently Australoids.

It is starting to look like Australoid types were the basic human type outside of Africa for a very long time, possibly until just recently.

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Filed under Aborigines, Ainu, Anthropology, Asians, Melanesians, Northeast Asians, Oceanians, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, SE Asians

Skin Color among the Mongoloid Races

Mike815 writes:

Are there Neomongoloids darker(almost as dark as Indians) than Southern Chinese and Vietnamese? And are there Paleomongoloids other than the Ainu that are very light skinned?

Yes, in the south of China, there are some pretty dark Neos. And some Koreans and Japanese look pretty dark. When Neomongoloids look dark, their prototypical “yellow” skin seems to look “orange” or “tanned.” The northern ones in Japan and Korea can look more “orange” = darkened yellow, and the ones in Southern China can look more “tanned.” Probably the ones in the South are more melaninized as it is a lot hotter down there.

The Ainu are not really Paleos. They are Australoids. Paleos are Australoid-Mongoloid transitionals.

Some Ryuku Islanders may be quite light. Many Ryuku Islanders may be more properly classed as Paleomongoloids than as Neomongoloids.

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Filed under Ainu, Anthropology, Asians, Chinese (Ethnic), Japanese, Koreans, Northeast Asians, Physical, Race/Ethnicity

What Does a Neomongoloid-Australoid Cross Look Like?

Anthropology1994 writes:

So if a person looks Neomongoloid but has more percent of Paleomongoloid genes, will he still be categorized as Neomongoloid? And will a half Neomongoloid half Australoid that looks Neomongoloid be categorized too as Neomongoloid?

Yes all of this is based on phenotype or appearance. None of it is based on genetics.

The Japanese are Neomongoloid-Australoid crosses, but they are 80% Neo and only 20% Australoid. That gives you some sort of an idea of what such a cross may look like.

Well, they might be classed as Paleos. From what I have seen, Japanese-Ainu crosses look rather Paleo. A lot of them look like Taiwanese Aborigines.

But honestly, Neos are not going to breed in with hardcore Australoids anywhere on Earth. How many Chinese people are going to breed with a Senoi, a Veddoid, a Naga, a Melanesian, a Negrito, a Papuan or an Aborigine.

Hell, how many Chinese even breed with a Tamil? Maybe in Singapore?

I do believe that you end up with a Paleo type when you breed these two together. And for some reason when you breed a Mongoloid with an Australoid, a lot of the time, you end up with something that looks rather Caucasoid. I have no idea why that is except that perhaps “Caucasoid” is one of a limited set of possible endpoints for a human phenotype. In other words, no matter how you mix up and interbreed humans, the ways in which we can end up looking are only going to fall into a fairly small subset of all possible appearances. And that subset probably looks like the races we have now. Look how many humans look like Negroids but are not Negroid at all.

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Filed under Ainu, Anthropology, Asians, Chinese (Ethnic), Japanese, Northeast Asians, Physical, Race/Ethnicity

Asians and Caucasians: Archaics, Transitional, and Progressive Forms

Anthropology 1994 writes:

If Chinese are equivalent to Americans and Koreans to Nordics, which European or Caucasian type will the Japanese and Vietnamese be equivalent to?

Not sure, Japanese and Koreans are pretty much identical. I am not sure what to do with Vietnamese.

Those types of comparisons between Mongoloids and Caucasoids are very difficult and maybe impossible to do – the groups are just too different and they have very different histories.

If you are asking what an archaic protoform or paleo transition form of Caucasians may look like, maybe they are similar to South Indians.

Thing is, we can see a lot of the transition in Asia. There are still many Australoid proto-Asians (Melanesians, Papuans, Aborigines, Ainu, Senoi, Negritos, Tamils) and there are also many Neomongoloid Neoasians (Chinese, Japanese, Mongolians, Koreans, Vietnamese). In between we have the Paleomongoloid Paleoasians in transition (Polynesians, Micronesians, Thais, Lao, Khmer, Malays, Indonesians, Filipinos, Taiwan aborigines, Nagas).

For Caucasoids we simply have Caucasoids. Not many people make a distinction between Neocaucasians, Paleocaucasians and Protocaucasians because hardly anyone knows what the Paleos and Protos look like. We are probably not even sure what a Paleocaucasian looks like, but the South Indians and the Saami may be a good example. We are lost when it comes to Protocaucasians. In other words, for Caucasians, we mostly just have the fully transitioned form in Europeans, Near Easterners, Central Asians and even in Arabs and North Africans. All of these are pretty much fully transitioned Caucasians. But no one really knows that they transitioned from or what the transitioning forms looked like.

Asia looks a lot more in flux. The world of the Caucasians looks like a done deal.

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The Ainu Are Australoid

A new study released in 2013 by Kanzawa-Kiriyama Hideaki shows that the Jomon population are genetically closer to Papuans and Melanesians, populations located in Oceania. The author also demonstrated that the Jomon have significant Denisovan admixture, which is also found among Papuans, Melanesians and some Negrito ethnic groups in the Philippines.

The study suggests that the Ainu and Ryukyuan populations of Japan retained much of their Jomon ancestry, however the Ainu received gene flow from neighboring populations such as Nivkhs and the Ryukyuans received genetic input from the Yayoi. In the principal component analysis, the Jomon were genetically close to Cambodians and were genetically more similar to Melanesians and Papuans when compared to other East Eurasians. Therefore the Japanese people may have significant amounts of Melanesian-like or Papuan-like ancestry in their genomes.

If the Jomon are part Denisovan, the Denisovan mix may have gone in quite early before 13,000 YBP. It went ~16,000 YBP or before when the proto-Jomon were living in Thailand. At this time, Denisovan mix also went into Papuans and Melanesians. So there was Denisovan mixing with ancient Australoid proto-Asians long ago, 15,000 YBP or earlier, somewhere in the Wallacea – Southeast Asian region.

I keep telling you guys this but none of you believe me. I have heard that the skulls are Australoid too, but I would have to look that up. Kennewick Man in the US, a Paleoindian, looks more like a Polynesian or an Ainu than any other living race. Polynesians are 1/2 Melanesian.

The Jomon are linked by skulls to skulls from Thailand 16,000 YBP. So the proto-Jomon lived in Thailand 16,000 YBP, and they must have gotten on boats and gone to Japan eventually, maybe by 13,000 YBP, where they formed the Ryukuyans and the Ainu. And what did the Jomon look like 16,000 YBP? Skulls from Thailand 25,000 YBP look like Aborigines.

There is some interesting evidence that some of the very earliest settlers to the Philippines, ~15,000 YBP, may have been Ainu-like from the way they are described. There is also good evidence that the Jomon people may have been a significant input to the Aborigines. The modern Aborigines are a mix between Atlanteans, who came 15-20,000 YBP and seem to be Ainuids, maybe from the Thailand Jomon, and Carpinterians, possibly from southeastern India from 10-15,000 YBP. 13,000 YBP, Southeastern Indians looked like Aborigines.

The Carpinterian-Atlantean mix was complete in Australia by maybe 12,000 YBP and the Aborigines were created. Prior to 17,000 YBP, the Aborigines seem to have looked very different. There are very early skulls from Australia before 20,000 YBP that are extremely robust and almost look like Homo Erectus.

So you can see that from a period of 13-25,000 YBP, people who looked like Aborigines were widespread across Asia from southeastern India to Thailand to Australia to the Philippines to Japan.

It is looking more and more like the proto-Asians or the pre-Mongoloid Asians were some sort of Australoid type. Evolution in Asia then went Australoid -> Mongoloid although it was not completed in certain places such as Melanesia, New Guinea, Australia and South India.

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Filed under Aborigines, Ainu, Anthropology, Asians, East Indians, Japanese, Melanesians, Northeast Asians, Oceanians, Papuans, Physical, Polynesians, Race/Ethnicity, South Asians

Does Australoid = Aborigine?

edenicfacereading writes:

The old specimens from China do not actually resemble Australian Aborigines. For example, the Zhoukoudian 101 specimen has a mix of Neanderthal and Cro-Magnon features and has nothing to do with Australoids. I’m not sure why so many people insist on ancient Asians and Amerindians being Australoid. Australian Aborigines are an isolated population and have completely unique features that are not similar to ancient populations anywhere in the world.

I have heard that the early specimens from that cave look like Aborigines.

It is 100% fact that early Amerindians were Australoids. If you plot their skulls on a graph, they line up perfectly with Papuans, Melanesians, Negritos, Veddoids and Aborigines.

Aborigine skulls are not so unique. They plot perfectly on a graph with the groups below.

The Australoid group consists of Papuans, Melanesians, Negritos, Veddoids, Aborigines, Ainu, some South Indians such as Tamils and some outliers such as the Senoi.

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Extreme Racism, Xenophobia and Korean Supremacism in South Korea

Found on the Internet. Jason Y lived there for a time, and he has gone on and on about the less than wonderful aspect of Korean culture. Now from the Net we get further confirmation of this backwards, reactionary and primitive culture:

The reason why there are Japanese “masters” and not that many Korean masters is because no one’s really been interested in Korea culturally up until Kpop happened. Japan has interested the West for a while, so there are more people willing to turn Japanese.

Have you ever eaten sushi? How about kimchi? The culinary traditions are another reason why Japan has won the culture war in the West.

Each country has it’s own brand of entertainment, but Jpop existed long before Kpop. Both are equally vapid.

Essentially, my generation was raised with mythic tales and legends about the awesomeness of Japan but not of Korea.

While racism in Japan exists, it has nothing on Korea. Even if you learn the language, you will never be accepted in Korea because there’s still a large focus on ethnic purity. Kids 15 years ago were still being taught that Koreans are the master race…I wish that was a joke. There are also laws and government regulations which make it difficult for non-Koreans to integrate. A lot of foreigners learn all of this, and after they realize this, just say, “Why would I want to learn the language of hateful, shallow peasants?”

I love Korea, but I’d be lying if I said I didn’t find Koreans rude, materialistic, and outdated. You can read the Korean newspapers, which have about as much journalistic integrity as a high school newspaper. You will read outlandish accusations against foreigners while which constantly ignore their own problems because the hot topic is always about how the outsider is the problem. Koreans go through their whole lives blaming other people. For a foreigner, Korea just kicks the shit out of you, and eventually most want to leave.

You hit the nail on the head there son. I’m married to Korean lady and living here and can vouch for all of that. As for the racism, I totally agree. There is one way to do things, and that’s the Korean way. If you aren’t doing it that way, then you’re wrong.

A lot of Koreans are even afraid of dark skinned people! I had an Indian-Canadian over my place, and my mother-in-law walked in and politely told us we shouldn’t have dirty people in our house because it’s dangerous.

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Filed under Asia, Asians, Culture, Japanese, Koreans, NE Asia, Northeast Asians, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, Regional, South Korea

Who Are the Vietnamese?

Ken writes:

Aren’t Siberian people classified as arctic mongoloids, not northern mongoloids?

Anyway, by “Southern Chinese” you must be referring to ethnic minority groups in Southern China, like the Dai and Lahu, because according to this study the Han Chinese from Southern China are not closer related to the Vietnamese than they are to the Northern Chinese. Look at this chart below:

http://postimg.org/image/4ak27dzup/
(CHAS = Southern Chinese CHB = Han Chinese from Beijing i.e. Northern Chinese)

link to the study:
http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0003862

Viets seems to be closely related to Lahu and Dai minority groups.

“the data indicate that Japanese and Korean were very closely related, as were Korean and Han Chinese but that these groups are much further from the south-east Asian populations (Filipino and Vietnamese). The Han Chinese and Japanese groups showed larger separation than either with Korean, although the paired Fst values ( population differentiation) were still small relative to Chinese/Filipino Fst. The Fst values also showed a close relationship between the Dai ethnic group in China and the Vietnamese population sample.”

Many of the Tungusics and the Yakut and Tuva do not look like Arctics. Arctics look different. The groups above just look like Mongolians or Japanese or even more progressive than that. You can’t class people by where they live.

2,300 years ago, a mass invasion of Vietnam took place from Southern China. The people who invaded where Chinese who live right north of there. Those would be the Cantonese Yu I would assume. In fact, maybe 60% of the Vietnamese language is Cantonese loans. At the same time, a major transformation took place in Vietnamese skulls in which they fully transformed to Neomongoloid via Chinese infusion.

Who invaded Vietnam, giving Viets maybe half their modern genome. Dai or Lahu people? I have seen photos of Dai women. They are as Southern Chinese as they come, perfect Southern Chinese phenotypes to perfection. Obviously groups like this are Southern Chinese people. What is the point of calling all Southern Chinese “Han” when so many of them are non-Han minorities of the south?

What difference does it make if Viets are close to the Dai or Lahu if the Dai and Lahu are Southern Mongoloids themselves?

There is an idea that non-Hans are not Chinese people. This is truly poisonous Han racism, and the Han are some of the most vile racists on Earth.

Southern Mongoloids means Southern Chinese. Southern Chinese means all of the people living in the south of China, Han racists be damned. Viets are also Southern Mongoloid, as they are much more Southern Chinese than SE Asian.

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Filed under Anthropology, Asians, Chinese (Ethnic), Japanese, Koreans, Northeast Asians, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, SE Asians, Vietnamese

What Race Is This Person?

What race is this man? I would tell you what country he comes form, but that would give it away. He was born in 1900.

What race is this man? He was born in 1900.

A most interesting phenotype. This man’s daughter is described as Malay-Chinese mix from Malaysia living in Singapore. The Chinese component came from the far south of China in the Min Nan region.

This man is described as from Peranakan in Malaysia. I am not sure if he is pure Malay or Malay/Chinese mix.

I do not know about you, but this guy is a straight up dead ringer for Pol Pot! That means that he looks Khmer to me. In other words, he looks Southeast Asian. Which he is. I am not sure if I can see any Chinese mix in him or not, so I do not know if he is part Chinese.

The classification is Paleomongoloid or Southeast Asian Mongoloid. This includes Thai, Lao, Malay, Khmer, Filipino and Indonesian in that region.

I would say that the Vietnamese are not Paleomongoloids. I would put them in the same group as the Southern Chinese, Southern Mongoloids.

Southern Mongoloids are more progressive than Paleomongoloids and they are Neomongoloid. But I have a feeling that Northern Mongoloids are even more progressive than Southern Mongoloids. Northern Mongoloids would include Koreans, Northern Chinese, Japanese, Mongolian and some Siberians like the Evenki, Yakut, Gilyak, Oroquen, Ulchi, Negidal, etc.

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Transitional Mongoloid Races

Mike815 writes:

If Kennewick man is Australoid and also being Paleomongloid, are there ethnic groups that are being both neomongoloid and Paleomongoloid, and being both neomongoloid and Indonesian type?

Kennewick was Australoid-Paleomongoloid transitional. An Australoid type transitioning to Paleomongoloid.

Maybe Eskimos, Vietnamese, Thai, Lao, Hmong, Gilyak, Ainu, some Siberians would fall into that category. Those are sort of like Paleomongoloid-Neomongoloid transitional.

Eskimos, Chukchi, Yukaghir, Kamchadals, etc. are not really Paleomongoloids like Amerinds. They are more progressive. But they are not as advanced as true Neomongoloids.

Vietnamese are interesting. I now think most SE Asians are actually Paleomongoloids: Filipinos, Indonesians, Malays, Khmer, some of the tribes of the Indian Northeast, most particularly the Nagas. But Vietnamese and Thai/Lao are Neomongoloids. I just do not feel like they are a long ways down that road. The Vietnamese only transitioned to Neo 2,300 years via massive South Chinese infusion. There are also Paleomongoloids in Vietnam called Montagnards.

Thai/Lao are not even as progressive as the Vietnamese. Thai and Lao probably just transitioned to Neo maybe 900 years ago via massive South Chinese infusion. There are also some Paleos in Thailand such as the Akha.

Hmong are thought to be Neomongoloids, but a lot of them have somewhat archaic features, and they are rather backwards people. They could be transitional.

Yunnan Chinese: There are definitely some quite archaic Mongoloids running around up in Yunnan. Probably most folks are Neomongoloids of the South Chinese type, but I have seen some Paleomongoloids up there and some people who look transitional.

Ainu are Australoids by skull, Neomongoloid by genes. And by now heavily married in with Neomongoloid Japanese, so consider them transitionals.

Gilyaks are at least as archaic as the Ainu, but I have never seen any skull data. I know that some say that the Gilyak are the remains of the proto-Northeast Asians who developed around Lake Baikal 35,000 years ago. They do not look particulalry striking. They simply look something like Japanese people.

Some of the lower Siberian types seem to be Neomongoloid. The Evenki, Yakut and Tuva look quite progressive.

There seem to be some Siberians who look like dead ringers for the Amerinds, including the Altai and much later Ket and probably Orochen/Ulchi stock from which the Amerinds are theorized to have come. The Orochen, Ulchi, Even, etc. look quite Neomongoloid. Whether these are true Paleomongoloids or whether they are transitionals, I am not sure. At this point, many of them, especially the Altai, Shor, Khakas, Os, etc. are heavily admixed with Caucasian.

Further west, the Mansi and Khanty types are nearly mongoloid-Caucasoid transitional of a very interesting type – a rather archaic Siberian Mongoloid of either the Paleo or Paleo-Neo transitional type mixed about 50-50 with Russian East Slavic very blond and blue depigmented ultra-Whites. Some of the photos of the Mansi and Khanty will make you fall out of your chair.

 

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Filed under Ainu, Amerindians, Anthropology, Asians, Chinese (Ethnic), Chuckchi, Filipinos, Hmong, Indonesians, Inuit, Japanese, Lao, Malays, Northeast Asians, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, SE Asians, Siberians, Thai, Vietnamese