Category Archives: Mental Illness

Psychological Effects of Their Work on Slaughterhouse Workers

Good comment from Kim, one of our excellent commenters. It’s not related to the murder case, but it shows you Delphi may not be the idyllic small Indiana town that everyone thinks it is. There is a very high percentage of RSO’s for such a small town, apparently related to the slaughterhouse in town. Slaughterhouse employees in turn develop psychological effects that would be at odds with the image of a peaceful and easy-going small town.

So beneath the cozy image, there does seem to be a very dark undercurrent running under the town of Delphi.

Kim: This is an article cited from another site about Registered Sex Offenders (RSO’s) and meat-packing plants. It may not be relevant to the crime, but it paints a grittier picture of the Delphi area.

Originally Posted by Blighted Star

No, you read right the first time. Those 54 RSO’s are are all linked to the very small town of Delphi, population 3,000. Check the other “known addresses” on most of them & you’ll see “Indiana Packers Co-op” (or something like it) on over 40 out of the 54 – because the abattoir up the road from the high bridge seems to have a hiring program for RSO’s. They’ve got men designated “sexually violent offenders” working on their kill floor & it doesn’t seem to occur to them that in that particular field of employment, it’s not necessarily a good thing to hire people who might be enjoying their work.

Holy crap!

This excerpt is taken from:

Killing for a Living: Psychological and Physiological Effects of Alienation of Food Production on Slaughterhouse Workers

By Anna Dorovskikh University of Colorado at Boulder

http://scholar.colorado.edu/cgi/view…xt=honr_theses

In Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress: The Psychological Consequences of Killing, the study by Rachel M. MacNair describes Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress as a from of post-traumatic stress disorder with symptoms of drug and alcohol abuse, panic, depression, paranoia, dissociation, anxiety, and depression stemming from the act of killing.

One study found that slaughterhouse workers, especially those responsible for the direct delivery of the act of killing and participating in the process of slaughter on a daily basis, may be susceptible to PITS as form of PTSD (Dillard, 2008).

One of the symptoms of PITS is having recurring dreams of violent acts, and there are several reports of workers being taken to the mental hospital for treatment of severe cases (Dillard, 2008). Certain jobs like having the responsibility to be the first to kill the animal may have stronger effects on the worker than other jobs. Oftentimes substance abuse of drugs such as methamphetamine (Schlosser, 2002) and alcohol is very common amongst slaughter employees as a coping mechanisms of the emotional toll (Dillard, 2008).

A former hog-sticker (worker who stabs hogs to bleed to death) said, “A lot of the slaughterhouse hog killers have problems with alcohol. They have to drink, they have no other way of dealing with killing live, kicking animals all day long. If you stop and think about it, you’re killing several thousand beings a day” (Dillard, p. 397, 2008).

Another employee explains that slaughter workers can’t care about animals they’re killing.

“The worst thing, even worse than the physical danger, is the emotional toll of the job. If you work in that stick pit for any period of time, you develop an attitude that lets you kill things but doesn’t let you care. You may look a hog in the eye that’s walking around down in the blood pit with you, and think, God, that really isn’t a bad-looking animal. You may want to pet it. Pigs down on the kill floor have come up and nuzzled me like a puppy. Two minutes later I had to kill them by beating beat them to death with a pipe.

Use of a pipe to kill hogs came up quite a few times reading through literature and general websites. Another employee interviewed said: “It’s called `piping.’ All the drivers use pipes to kill hogs that can’t go through the chutes. Or if you get a hog that refuses to go in the chutes and is stopping production, you beat him to death. Then push him off to the side and hang him up later” (Eisnitz, p. 53, 2009).

Some employees even report killing animals for fun without feeling any remorse, suggesting that they are suffering psychological damage to the point of developing abnormal cruelty. Mental changes of this sort would generate concern amongst the general population (Dillard, 2008).

Several studies on empathy amongst farmers in animal agriculture show that slaughterhouse workers and farmers exhibit lower levels of empathy towards animals than the general population. Desensitization was not an uncommon factor amongst the employees of this sector (Dillard, 2008).

A study done on butchers working in the slaughterhouse and retail meatpacking business revealed that as butchers work in a negative environment almost every single day, they displayed the highest levels of somatization and anger hostility among the general occupation of butchery. Once factors like age and education were accounted for, this study of 82 male butchers found higher rates of work accidents, injuries, physical disorders, use of alcohol and drugs, as well as a higher employee turnover (Emhan et al. 2012).

Usually fully aware of the kills that go on every single day, the workers either become very distressed and leave the job or they become numb and begin to display signs of apathy. Some even begin to enjoy the infliction of pain (Helle 2012). Some become less empathetic under conditions of stress as well. See this example:

“This is kind of hard to talk about. You’re under all this stress, all this pressure. And it really sounds mean, but I’ve taken prods and stuck them in their (hogs’) eyes and held them there.” (Eisnitz, p. 53, 2009).

Lower empathy in slaughterhouse workers may be responsible for higher crime rates in neighborhoods where such facilities are located including homicides carried out in a manner of animal slaughtering practices (Dillard, 2008). Amy Fitzgerald, a sociologist investigating the effects of slaughterhouses on communities tested a “Sinclair effect,” a theory Upton Sinclair proposed more than 100 years ago, noting that slaughterhouses had negative effects on workers and communities through increases in crime and unemployment rates.

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Filed under Agricutlure, Alcohol, Animals, Anxiety Disorders, Crime, Depressants, Depression, Domestic, Intoxicants, Labor, Mental Illness, Midwest, Mood Disorders, Pigs, Psychology, Psychopathology, Regional, Serial Killers, Social Problems, Sociology, Speed, Stimulants, USA

Resolved: Transgenderism Is a Mental Illness

RL: I work in mental health, and I have to diagnose people a lot, or at least offer my opinion of a diagnosis as I cannot give out legal DSM diagnoses . I even have to do differential diagnosis constantly where I have to figure out which of two diagnoses a person has. Believe me, these cases can be very confusing.

Magneto: In your opinion, is being transgender a mental illness? I mean, I am aware of the statistics that gays/trans people have a far higher suicide rate than heterosexuals, which would seem to suggest that it is a mental disorder.

But it’s kind of hard to think trans are mentally ill when you are looking at a fucking sexy ass Asian ladyboy who is far hotter than any real woman you’ve ever been with. To be honest, I hope trans continues to become more mainstream and more men do the transition into females. Fine with me, more food to choose from, in my opinion.

Ha ha. So, more pussy, even if it’s fake pussy, eh? I’m not sure I am down with that.

 

Is transgenderism a mental illness. Of course it is. In most cases anyway. And the rate has gone up 600X since the 1970’s. If it is some actual biological condition in the brain like sexual orientation, one would not expect the rate to skyrocket like that.

Rates of biological conditions don’t change much. The rate of homosexuality has probably been 3% for a very long time. Homosexuality appears to be an incurable biological condition that gets wired up in their brains somehow. It is a developmental disorder like left-handedness and a number of other things. Something goes wrong hormonally in utero, and the result is male or in some cases female homosexuality. As it is a developmental disorder, would you expect the rates of left-handedness to go up 600X? Real biological conditions just don’t work like that. Why would the hormonal aberrations that cause homosexuality have gone up 600X? They wouldn’t. They would stay at some consistent rate that is close the the rate of things going wrong in utero.

Hence except in a few cases, transgenderism is not a biological disorder. I really feel for these boys who feel like girls from age 2 or whatever. I am willing to consider a biological disorder there.

Yet a biological disorder can also be a mental illness. Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder and even OCD look like biological disorders, and all are also mental illnesses.

These seems to be a “fad” disorder that a lot of folks are developing on their own in a similar way to how these therapists create mental illness in previously healthy girls who got molested. It’s a cool way of going crazy.

Studies in China show that ~3% of the population feels as if they are the opposite sex. So if we let this thing explode, we could end up with a 3% tranny population. In the past, these people became homosexuals (in itself a sort of transgenderism) or perhaps feminine men and masculine women.

When I was growing up in the 1970’s, we had this idea that all men and women have masculine and feminine components, even heterosexual ones. Just because a man has a feminine side or a woman a masculine one doesn’t mean he is not a man and she is not a woman, nor does it mean that either one is a homosexual.

I have a pretty strong feminine side myself, as many people used to think I was gay or bi. I’m not a Man’s Man at all. I’m not macho enough for that. I’m a Ladies’ Man who prefers the company of women. Most Ladies’ Men are not as masculine as Man’s Men.

I worry that if I were growing up today, I might have been sucked into this nonsense and decided that I was a tranny and I was really a woman or something insane like that.

If a man thinks he is a woman or a woman thinks she is a man, that is known as a delusion. It’s just not true. So they’re psychotic in a sense. And the treatment (sex change operation) doesn’t appear to make them any mentally healthier. So why do it? If the treatment doesn’t help the person, we stop doing it.

13% of people who have sex changes actually re-transition. So men who turn into women turn back into men, and women who think they are men turn back into women. If it was a real condition, one would not expect to see that. Homosexuals don’t suddenly decide to be straight. Left-handed people don’t decide to be right-handed one day. Transgenderism in childhood is highly transitory. 73% of transgender children are cured by adulthood. That is, by the time they are 18, they have abandoned the idea that they are the opposite sex. Biological conditions do not have such high spontaneous cure rates.

There have been quite a few spontaneous cures of transgenderism even in adulthood. There are a number of cases where a man was in therapy for transgenderism, and he showed up for therapy one day and announced that he’s no longer transgender. He’s really a man and realizes that and feels like one now. Then he gets up and walks out of the office. Just like that.

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Filed under Anxiety Disorders, Asia, Biology, China, Gender Studies, Girls, Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Mental Illness, Mood Disorders, OCD, Psychology, Psychopathology, Psychotherapy, Psychotic Disorders, Regional, Schizophrenia, Science, Sex, Social Problems, Sociology

Yet Another Gay Lobby Lie: Gays (or Gay Teens) Have Very High Suicide Rates Compared to Straights

RL: I work in mental health, and I have to diagnose people a lot, or at least offer my opinion of a diagnosis as I cannot give out legal DSM diagnoses . I even have to do differential diagnosis constantly where I have to figure out which of two diagnoses a person has. Believe me, these cases can be very confusing.

Magneto: In your opinion, is being transgender a mental illness? I mean, I am aware of the statistics that gays/trans people have a far higher suicide rate than heterosexuals, which would seem to suggest that it is a mental disorder.

Gay men and lesbians in fact do not have a higher suicide rate than heterosexuals. This even applies to gay teens, the ones they scream about suicide risk all the time about. The Gay Lobby has been lying about this one forever now. It’s another one of their lies. It’s not even true.

What is true that at least gay men have a higher rate of attempted suicide than straight men. Lesbians may be similar. This is particularly true in the case of gay teens. If gay men act like women, we would expect to see this, as women have extremely high rates of attempted suicide but the completed rate is much lower. So while women try to kill themselves a lot more, more men actually do it. You know, we men like to get stuff done. We don’t like to mess around or beat around the bush about things.

Partly this is down to method. Women tend to use pills, and men tend to use  guns and ropes. Guns in particularly are quite lethal. Only rarely does a gun suicide fail. However, pills are an inefficient way to commit suicide, as they often do not work.

My own father tried to kill himself with pills and failed. Four of my ex-girlfriends tried to do it, and all failed, although one almost succeeded. Not long ago, I was dating three women at once, and all of them had attempted suicide recently. Two of them did it right under my nose so to speak.

In women, this is often a histrionic gesture, a cry for help, or a desire to get any sort of attention, even negative attention. Suicidal women are a lot more ambivalent than suicidal men. So, assuming gay men are like women, then an elevated attempted suicide rate without an elevated completed rate would make sense.

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Filed under Gender Studies, Homosexuality, Mental Illness, Mental Patients, Politics, Psychology, Psychopathology, Self-injury, Sex, Women

Serial Killers – Psychotic or Psychopathic?

Gary Palin: I see your points Robert, and your way more knowledgeable about these types of psychotic sociopaths than I am. When I saw the picture of Libby in the hat and how young and innocent she looked, this crime really struck a chord with me. When I was younger growing up in the 70’s this was relatively “uncommon,” but there were some (Charles Manson, etc) Also there were very few homosexuals, at least out in the open, and there were no transgender people ( not that I have disdain for them). This goes for where I grew up, but maybe in liberal California it was different for you.

I just wonder if this escalating type of violent crimes against women has anything to do with “feminism” and men feeling slighted and emasculated, and this is their way of rebelling against women. I think there may be a lot of truth to this.

I would bet in the 1950’s where divorce was uncommon, and families were mostly all the patriarchal type, when men were the head of the household, I think people and families were a lot happier than in today’s world, even though they didn’t have as much material wealth. Maybe you should do a blog on that subject, as you’re truly a student of human nature.

As far as being a student of human nature, I work in mental health. I have dealt with very few psychotic or psychopathic people, but I often have to rule out psychopathy or psychosis. In the group I am dealing with, I almost always rule it out. But to rule it out, you have to understand it.

Actually there were quite a few serials running around in the 1970’s. I like to think of the 1970’s as the Decade of the Serial Killer. There were an amazing number of them running around right here in California. We regularly had them running loose here in the LA area. Randy Kraft, the Hillside Strangler, the Toolbox Killers, the Sunset Strip Killers, Rodney Alcala, William Bonin, on and on. In California proper there was the Zodiac, the Hitchhiker Killer, and the Keddie Murders. Ted Bundy was running around the West.

My Mom thinks she saw Bonin and crew pick up a young male hitchhiker on a freeway entrance in Garden Grove. She thought that may have been the last ride that boy ever took.

A good friend of mine had an encounter with Randy Kraft and drank some beer and smoked some pot with him. The beer was one of Kraft’s specialty Valium-laced beers, but my friend caught on that something was wrong. Kraft tried to stop him from leaving the car, but my friend screamed at Kraft like a maniac, and Kraft was taken aback and let him go.

Back then we did not have DNA and advanced forensics, so most of these guys killed a number of times (4-10) before they were caught. It was so much easier to be a serial back then due to the more primitive forensics. Serials often targeted regular females or males, but now a lot of serials are targeting druggy street prostitutes, truck stop whores, and other marginal women whose disappearance is not even known because they are so far outside of society. It is quite hard to catch these killers because they are targeting such marginal women who hardly anyone even knows. When the serial starts targeting ordinary members of society, it’s a bit easier to catch them.

I do not think the rate of rapes or rape-murders of women has gone up since the 1970’s. I have heard that child killings have been at a flat rate of ~150/year since the 1970’s. If anything, I would assume the rate of rapes and rape-murders has gone down since the 1970’s. Sure, there has been a much-needed backlash against the sexist hate movement called Feminism, but it doesn’t seem like men’s rage over it is causing us to rape and kill women at any higher rate than we ever had. Instead a lot of men seem to be dropping out of dating and dealing with women altogether for fear of a sexual harassment, sexual assault or fake rape charge. See the Men Going Their Own Way Movement for more on this phenomenon.

The concepts of psychosis and psychopathy are often confused in the public mind. How many times have you heard about “psychotic killers?” Thing is, when someone says that, they are almost never referring to killers who are actually psychotic. Instead they are referring to psychopathic killers and confusing them with people who are psychotic. Most people do not understand the difference between these psychological states, and this is the reason for the mix-up. Also most people assume that any maniac running around like Jack the Ripper slaughtering other humans for no good reason has to be insane or psychotic. They say this because to them such an act seems to be so outside of normal behavior that only a crazy person would do such a thing.

Psychosis and psychopathy are too different things. I suppose there are some cases where the two conditions overlap. Some paranoid schizophrenics seem to have also been psychopaths, but this is not common.

These sociopaths are not psychotic. This is an important thing to note. Only 2% of serials are psychotic. It is fairly easy to catch a psychotic serial because they are completely insane. It’s hard for crazy people to organize a trip to the bathroom, much less a serial killing spree.

Sociopaths and psychopaths are not the tiniest bit crazy. If they were even 1% nuts, they would be easier to catch. They are almost too sane in that they don’t have to worry about emotions slipping them up. These humans are like machines. If they are serials, then they are killing machines.

I would agree though that outside of the former definition of craziness which tends to emphasize impairment, sociopaths/psychopaths are indeed crazy. They’re morally crazy. And in some ways, these are craziest humans of all because they simply lack a conscience.

Instead of being crazy, sociopaths and psychopaths are better seen as sick. Or even evil. We need to take our analysis of these folks outside of the sanity/insanity paradigm and over into the moral universe of good/evil. These people aren’t crazy. They’re just evil, that’s all. This is the only way to properly understand such people.

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Filed under California, Crime, Evil, Feminism, Gender Studies, Man World, Mental Illness, Personality Disorders, Psychology, Psychopathology, Psychotic Disorders, Regional, Serial Killers, Sick, Sociology, Sociopathy, USA, Women

Delphi Murders Update March 16: One Sleuth’s Theorizing on the Delphi Murders

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that can be determined from this crime as it was not a pedophilic offense. Instead, this was a hebephilic offense. And the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, although he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Thank you so much for this. I am getting tired of words being misused. And now we are being scientific on the board.

Note 2 to commenters: I am really getting sick and tired of saying this, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. The only thing that is represented as fact as statements sourced from LE or the media.

And incidentally, the way I wrote up the case is precisely how detectives work a case. Detectives do not work cases using the scientific method. If they did, they would hardly solve one case. It’s more “We believe this for now…this is true for now…at the moment, this is what we think happened…we believe…” They are throwing out endless theories about what really happened and accepting them as (temporary) facts. They are then continuously revising and throwing out theories and creating new ones.

Being  a detective is about being wrong. Not just once, but being wrong over and over so many times your head will want to come off. If you can’t handle being wrong, then detective work is surely not for you. Finally detectives arrive at enough information to file a case against someone, but a lot of that is not factual either. They believe he did the crime. They believe that this, that, or the other happened with no way to really prove it – it’s just what they conjecture.

If he is convicted, then the theory that he did the crime is validated as fact, but I am not sure what other evidence is. And even court decisions are not scientific fact because they get overturned all the time. There are not a whole lot of 100% certain, clear scientific facts in LE work, detective work on the judicial system itself. A good portion of the decisions made turn out to be theories, temporary but unstable facts, beliefs, hunches and guesswork, all represented as fact in the court.

If you have issues with theories, opinions and what not, just quit reading and get the Hell off my site right now and never come back. I am really getting sick and tired of this BS.

If you have not heard of the Delphi murders, Google them. They are indeed as the commenter suggests the biggest homicides in the nation right now. And this case has grabbed me too just like this commenter. I actually don’t get interested in every homicide that comes around and I’ve been out of the crime and sleuthing loop for a while now. But there was something about this case – God knows what it is, that just grabbed me right there and affected me the way many similar cases have not.

I get comments like this and also emails and even phone calls along these lines quite often nowadays. This guy has had the best take so far. Not endorsing anything he says below except where he and I obviously agree, but I think you might find this enlightening reading.

Very interesting work you’ve done on this case Robert to try and get the truth of what really happened to the girls. It’s very hard to do, as rumors start to make things inconsistent, but I’ve always found that if enough credible people are talking – there will be no doubt a lot of truth to them.

I think firstly we have to assume this crime was “sexual” in nature, so the killer was both a pedophile and a killer. He likely also was a “sadist” and got a sexual thrill out of physically harming someone – that turns him on.

This killer is a sociopath or psychopath – really both one in the same. A sociopath doesn’t really feel any emotions – does not feel sadness or happiness, as he stays the same all the time. I’m sure in your practice you must deal with these type of people and may agree with me. I’ll give you my take on this killer(s). As you say there may be 2, or maybe only 1.

One thing I found very interesting and I read this today on a Sleuth forum, is that Abby only lived 1/8 of a mile from the bridge. That’s only about 6-7 city blocks – “that’s very close.” I’m sure some man could have seen her around and was watching her habits. Also Abby and her mom only moved to this area from Michigan about 1.5 years ago.

Also Abby liked to camp and I have a picture of her fishing, and it could be from the creek or river, as the bridge is in the background. If indeed she does live that close, I’m sure men like Ron Logan – “property owner” may have seen her around. I think her living so close by is “very significant”- my source – “Websleuths,” and this poster also posted the picture of Abby fishing. Apparently she and Libby frequented this area quite often??? I don’t know.

1) from looking at this “suspect’s” picture – walking on the bridge, I’d put his age at about 38 to 42 years old. You have him at 60, but his face actually looks a lot younger. You can tell by skin texture, and I’m good at sizing up age. I will add, the photo is a little blurry though – so hard to get a real good look at his face. I’ll refer to suspect as BG – “bridge guy.” I think BG’s height is around 5′ 9 to 5′ 10 inches tall, with a heavy-set build, his weight is around 190 to 210 lbs., and he looks very strong.

One thing I noted – he walks with a “duck walk” – if you notice his “right foot” plant in one of the pictures, his toes are pointed outside on about a 45 degree angle. Most people walk with their toes pointed straight ahead. I would say only about 4% of the population walks like that. With the picture being so blurry of his face, they should look at “body language” and study his gait and how he walks. I’m sure he has a “duck walk.”

Suspect’s (BG) Education- I’d say he’s likely has a Grade 11 or 12 education and maybe also a tradesman (electrician, plumber, etc.) I also think it’s quite likely he’s a truck driver or a delivery man, makes trips to the Delphi area quite often and knows people there cause of work.

I also think he’s not that smart!!! To leave something like a cell phone on the body of the person you just killed is pretty stupid. A smart person would know that young girls love their phones and love taking pictures. It’s also possible that Libby chucked it in the bush to not let him find it??? Be interesting to know where the phone was found???

There is a good chance this Killer is from out of state, as it would be far to risky in a small town to do something like this where everyone knows you.

Other things about BG – he looks like he’s disguising himself, walking with a mission, and has a deadly look in his eyes. This tells me he’s come prepared and knew the girls would be there. I think someone in the area told him this, or he obtained this thru social media and planned a meeting with the girls (I think social media – “good bet”).

General Personality – looks very meticulous – plans everything ahead of time, as this wasn’t done at the spur of the moment. His jeans look washed and pressed, and his dress looks “all in order.” If he’s a trades guy, I would bet all his tools are “clean” and organized. I don’t think he’s ever been married but may at one time and quite likely still does live with a parent, like a mother who washes his clothes etc. – “very possible.”

Pedophiles are not interested in adult women at all – they “like girls” – not women and get quite excited when around young kids. I know 2 pedos thru my work and got to know them and found out a little about their backgrounds. Both of these guys came from an “unstable or weird” family upbringing, and both didn’t like one of the parents at all. I did not know they were pedos when I met them.

This guy is definitely not a homeless guy – “forget it” – he works and is probably quite a good reliable worker. He could be liked or at least get along with his fellow workers. He looks and dresses like a truck driver, and most of these guys that sit behind a wheel all day “have quite a gut” – so I would say he’s about 30 lbs overweight – around 190 to 200 lbs and strong.

He’d have to be very strong if Robert is right about moving the girls across the creek – right??? Robert thinks the suspect is 60 yrs old??? How many 60 year old’s could lift and carry a 170 to 180 lb Libby thru water and over rough terrain? Most guys I know that age are looking to get hip or knee replacements, and some I know walk with a cane.

If there were 2 guys, I could see them moving Libby – just 1 – 60 years old??? I have my doubts. I do think there are some 50-60 year old men who keep in great shape who would have the kind of strength required to move the girls (very few, and ones that I know work out with weights and are very strong).

Moving Abbie – “not that hard” as she would weigh from 100 to 120 lbs judging by her photo. So, was there one killer or 2??? Judging from police reports and what Robert has said, there may have been 2 men (one was spotted – “all in black”) by trail hikers and probably worked in unison with BG (bridge suspect).

If there was only (1) killer, he definitely “was not very bright.” Can you imagine a guy wading thru a creek carrying a lifeless limp body over his shoulder?? You’d have to be crazy to put yourself at that kind of risk of someone seeing you. Also to do this crime in the middle of the day on a popular hiking trail makes me wonder how bright these guy(s) are – “not to bright” – IMO

Suspects – and things that bother me:

1) Jimmy Duvall – according to a person on Reddit that seems very genuine, he has not missed (1) day at work in 3 years at the Chrysler Auto plant where he works. Apparently he phoned in sick and was away from February 12 to Feb 15-th, and this poster says he’s not come back yet. He was taken right from work to give a DNA sample and then took off.

Robert says he’s at home??? But is he really??? How does anyone know for sure unless you work with law enforcement (you don’t). Just like Robert said awhile ago – one girl was found nude and the other clothed – so he is getting “false information” as well. This Duvall could be at home and could be innocent though.

Hopefully FBI have DNA – and they tested him, but it would take 2-3 weeks to get those results back. I’d say he’s still in the mix. This guy is a pedophile and a violent one as his past “convictions” prove.

2) Ron Logan – although he’s 75 yrs old and was the property owner where the girls were found – there is something very troubling about him in my mind. I don’t think he directly killed the girls. Could he have given information to someone who frequents his property. Remember Abby only lives 1/8 mile away (6 blocks) and may have played on Logan’s property.

I read the state order – he was arrested for violating probation and with “no bail option” – I find this very odd and perplexing??? You would think FBI, police, etc. would not all of a sudden call Ron Logan on this at the time of one of the nation’s biggest murders. This would scar him for life.

Why didn’t they arrest him a long time ago when he violated probation, or why not wait till the dust settles down in this case? He wasn’t going to go anywhere. I believe they will keep him detained, and I believe he may know something very important, so that’s why they’re keeping him in jail with “no bail” rights.

If he has been released (which I doubt), then I guess police are satisfied he’s totally innocent – “and he could be.”

Other Possible – Justin Wildey – 40 yrs. old – he’s wanted right now for child molestation – saw his poster. He’s from Indiana – weighs 220 lbs and is 6’3, so he’s mighty big and strong and would be capable of carrying the girls, and he’s also a pedophile. He works as a mover and may have been with the company that moved Abby’s family from Michigan to Delphi, Indiana. Some sleuther posters say this is very possible.

In Summary – I’m sure the FBI and police have a lot more suspects than what I have listed, and I believe their expertise is second to none, and they are going to give themselves the greatest opportunity to catch this monster or 2 killers that are on the loose.

Forensics has come a long long way in the last 30 years or so, and even a little fabric, or hair, shoe print, anything, can be identified, and I’m sure they are going all-out and exhausting every possible lead they get. It’s my hope that these cruel, cowardly monsters that pick on little girls are caught before they take another life.

I thank Robert for his insight into this case and also for his great site.

For some reason this case “really grabbed me,” and I want the guy(s)caught soon as possible, and who knows – they may be tracking him down right now. Not many cases where they have voice and a picture.

It’s only a matter of time on this case!!!

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Filed under Crime, Criminology, Mental Illness, Midwest, Pedophilia, Personality Disorders, Psychology, Psychopathology, Regional, Serial Killers, Sex, Sociology, Sociopathy, USA

What’s with All the Rape and Sex Crimes?

You have to go through a regional paper that segregates articles by theme to actually realize the extent of rape-type sexual offenses, including rape and murder.

Child molestation is a whole other ball of wax, and it’s complicated by the drooling, psychotic autism of calling adults who have sex with teenagers pedophiles and child molesters, but I am absolutely stunned at the number of men who are having sex with actual children, like girls 12-under. And a surprising number of them involve violence too. Are all these guys pedophiles?

Pedophiles are only one of the four types of child molesters.

80-93% of child molesters are non-pedophiles. They’re just criminals. They’re not into girls any more than any other guy. They do this because these are aggressive, manipulative, amoral, probably somewhat sociopathic men who take advantage of young girls due to the fact that they are an easy target. Most of this is familial. On Indian reservations in Canada where it is estimated that 100% of girls are molested, most of the molesting is familial. It’s Daddy or Uncle or Grandpa or whoever.

The others are familial, opportunistic, trysexual and psychopathic.

I won’t deal with the first three right now.

Psychopathic child molesters differ from pedophilic ones in that they have no preference for prepubescent girls. Their sexual orientation age-wise is as normal as any other man’s: They are maximallly attracted to females age 16-up, and progressively less attracted as age goes down. Psychopathic child molesters molest girls because they have no morals, and they have a “screw anything that moves” attitude. A girl, a woman, what differenced does it make? All potential targets. Sure, he doesn’t prefer girls, but they will do in a pinch.

The problem with automatically treating all child molesters as psychologically disordered and having a paraphilia is that most of them are probably neither. They’re not nuts in any way. They’re just criminals. If they don’t prefer girls for sex more than any other man, there’s no sexual disorder to treat.

“Screw anything that moves” is not a sexual disorder. “Take advantage of naive daughters and nephews” is not a sexual disorder. “No morals” is not a sexual disorder. “Manipulative scumbag” is not as sexual disorder. My understanding is that most of these guys get labeled pedophiles and thrown in to pedophile treatment programs. It’s really dubious how many of them get helped by these programs especially when there’s nothing much to fix. Worse many them get labeled “mentally disordered sex offenders.” That means they have a mental disorder, in this case a sexual disorder. See any sexual disorders above? Neither do I.

Obviously true fixated pedophiles need to be in a program. Even out of incarceration, they should probably be in regular therapy to keep them from offending or re-offending.

But when a man’s problem is not that he’s a pedophile but that he’s a psychopathic monster, how are these pedophile treatment programs supposed to help him? How are they supposed to help Weird Uncle who prefers women but goes after girls in a sleazy pinch? They can’t.

I would wager that most of these men, if they have any disorder at all, have an impulse control disorder. That’s not in the DSM yet. But just you wait. It would be a bad idea to put Impulse Control Disorder into the DSM because we just labeled half the population crazy. Probably 50% of the population can’t control their impulses well.

Are there treatment programs that teach men how to control their impulses? No idea. Are there programs that aim to impart morals into a morally barren human? Probably, but how good is that going to work. How do you create something that was never there?

I am starting to wonder what the Hell is the matter with us men. I’ve never done anything like this, not even date rape. I don’t get the appeal. If she’s not willing, it’s no fun, right? If she doesn’t want to do it, shrug your shoulders and say, “Fine, I will sleep on the couch then.” Trust me, she will get up in the middle of the night and drag you back to her room. An abundance mindset is always helpful. I guess I have raped if you count the feminist daffynition of rape, but the feminists are so insane on this subject that they would put 50 million men in prison. The feminist definition of rape isn’t even rape. It’s not nothing. It’s just junk, like most anything a feminut says.

But this stuff below is the real deal. As much as I dislike feminists, I am starting to se why so many of them starting hating us men. We’re pretty hateable you know. Hell, I don’t even like men, and I’m a guy!

I’ve been dating some women around age 50. Nearly every single one of them had either been raped. And they had all had a man try to kill them. I figure by age 50, most women in the US have either been raped by a man or had a man try to kill them. That’s pretty sorry.

Ladies I would like to apologize on behalf of all men for the despicable behavior of my gender. It’s an outrage what we do to you. The rapes, the assaults, the beatings, the kidnappings, the imprisonment, the attempted murders and the murders. I can’t believe what you put up with from us. Sometimes I wonder why any of you like any of us anymore.

If you a law-abiding citizen who rarely if ever commits a crime that victimizes the innocent, or at least one who stays out of jail for more than 5-10 hours in their life, the background level of crime in society is absolutely stunning. Sure you’re likely to avoid being a victim of a serious crime, at least this year, but the sheer numbers of crimes occurring in normal everyday America is mind-blowing. And these are just sexual crimes, some of the worst of all.

If you start doing research on less serious but still victimizing crimes, the number of them occurring on any given day even in your area is out of this world. It’s hard to understand how many heedless fools there are out there who are not inhibited by the threat of imprisonment. And there’s a Hell of a lot of sick fucks out there. Incredible how many sickos are running around. It boggles the mind.

Keep in mind this is just this year and the year’s barely even getting started. And in just this one country with 4% of the world’s population. So multiply these cases by 25.

And fully 70% of the cases below that occurred in this year alone happened in only two states, North Carolina and Florida.

And then you think about this factoid that only 4% of rape cases ever result in incarceration and it’s even more shocking. So there’s 25X more of this stuff happening that perpetrators are getting away with.

Autopsy: New Mexico girl was raped and strangled on 10th birthday, had STD when she died

Jesus.

Couple charged in ‘rape-murder fantasy’ killing of girl, 14, prosecutors say

Wow, no words. Good Lord! Her own Mom was involved in the imprisonment, beating, torturing, drugging and raping of this girl. I’ve heard of Moms being driven batty by unruly teens, but isn’t this a bit extreme?

 

Florida man held girlfriend for 2 weeks, raped her and used pliers to rip her nails off

Another girlfriend rape, but this guy threw a lot of violence into the mix. This guy needs to get together with Pliers Bittaker.

Sex offender wearing electronic monitor accused of raping woman in NC

Darwin award.

Man accidentally confesses to rape during police job interview

Date rape. OK, you’re a jerk and an idiot. Enjoy your Darwin Award in jail. Perhaps you can tape it to the wall.

Woman stabs man who allegedly tried to rape her, escapes attack

Good for her, but what’s his problem? She stabbed the guy who was trying to rape her. Damn.

Brother of Panthers tight end Greg Olsen given $103,000 bond on rape charges

Hmmm, wait. He raped his own longterm girlfriend? How is that even possible?

Man accused of sexual assault in Burlington arrested

What the Hell is your problem?

Man allegedly pulled gun, attempted to sexually assault woman after she turned down grilled cheese

This one is actually funny. He’s a rapist and a stand-up comedian!

Burlington middle school teacher accused of statutory rape

This last one is the only one I feel sorry for. But she’s 45! And the boy was 15! Jesus. Anyway, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to that kid so far in his life and it looks like his teacher is teaching him a bit more than readin, writin and arithmetic, no?

All right. So what do we do with this silly woman who has an Impulse Control Disorder in the sense that’s not able to inhibit her desires or separate thoughts from actions. Not to mention heedless and foolhardy. This retarded society is probably going to give this cougar 5 years for her extracurricular tutoring of this fortunate young man. Then, our special needs society is going to make this dingbat woman register as a sex offender for the rest of her life when all her victim proabably said was, “Thanks Mom, I mean teacher.”

So what would I do? What do you do when there’s nothing to be done but throw up your hands.

Fire her. Pull her credential. Make it so she can never teach again. That ought to be good enough. If she can’t find a job, I suppose she can always become a cougar porn star. I recommend she specialize in the Mommy-son fantasy market.

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Filed under Amerindians, Canada, Corrections, Crime, Criminology, Florida, Gender Studies, Girls, Law enforcement, Man World, Mental Illness, New Mexico, North America, North Carolina, Northeast, Pedophilia, Psychology, Psychopathology, Psychotherapy, Race/Ethnicity, Radical Feminists, Regional, Sex, Social Problems, Sociology, South, USA, West

Do Prepubertal Children Have a Sex Drive?

Spoiler: Answer is no. Explained below.

As part of my clinical work, I deal with folks who are dealing with pedophilic, homicidal and other disturbing thoughts. I listen to and read about thoughts like this every single day. After a while, it doesn’t bother you anymore. A differential diagnosis is always mandated in such a case, and indeed, I did discover two actual pedophiles so far. And they both presented in precisely the same way, and that presentation was completely different from the nonpedophiles.

In the course of this work, I had to learn a lot about pedophiles. I went to anti-pedophile sites where they have dossiers on all the Net pedophiles they have outed. I even went to pedophile and hebephile bulletin boards, though  they are not as bad as you think. It’s all legal or at least no-worries gray area, and there’s as many pedophile-haters in those rooms as pedophiles. It’s not exactly a crime scene. But you can learn a tremendous amount about these folks by reading what they write on those boards.

One thing I noticed over and over was that pedophiles both heterosexual and homosexual insist that little children have strong sex drives and seek out sex with kids and other adults. That hit me as quite off, as you think  of little kids as being pretty sexless. As a boy, I think I thought about sex maybe five minutes out of a year, and girls were sort of yucky. They were even contagious. They had cooties, and you had to be very careful not to get infected. This illness was a serious problem at school and even for a while at home for quite some time.

I have no idea what it’s like to be a little girl, so I asked some girlfriends. I was absolutely stunned that little girls are capable of orgasm. If you go on the Net, you can see a lot of women’s boards where they are discussing this very thing, which they often accidentally found out by doing  things like riding the top of the couch like a horse. One woman said at age seven, she was riding the couch horse, and she really got into it at one point. That couch mare had some speed. Then an earthquake occurred and she almost fell off the couch. “Mommy! What was that?!” Mom came into the room,  the girl explained what happened and I guess Mom said, “Honey, come with me. We have to have a little talk here.”

Of course all of these women are pedophiles for discussing  their experiences, right? Please report them all to the police.

I knew some women who were molested at an early age. In some cases it went on for years. These girls became highly sexualized and I was told that some masturbated to orgasm from age 5-on. Just because it felt good. But they also all told me that they had no interest in sex with other humans. They all said that started up at age 13.

I don’t know much about little boys, but they cannot ejaculate until age 13 or so, so orgasm is probably out of the question.

The general impression I got was that little children simply do not have any real sex drive at all. Which is all to the better or course. We have enough on our hands with the teenagers!

And I can confirm that.

Here.

Prepubertal children simply do not experience sexual arousal and drives comparable to adolescents or adults.

Myers, By John E. B. The APSAC Handbook on Child Maltreatment. American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children

Just as I suspected. By the American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children, and you would think they would know, right?

Yes, children do engage in sex play, and I hear about this stuff clinically all the time. Adults really need to butt out of this stuff. The kids should probably be told to knock it off, but involving law enforcement or even the therapeutic community seems like a terrible idea. They’re not child molesters for God’s sake! They’re children themselves! How on Earth could a child be a child molester? Nevertheless, this sex play is completely different from the sexual conduct engaged in by adolescents and adults. They do it for reasons, but not for the same reasons we do.

Kids are trying to figure out what they are, and childhood sex play is part of that.

Once again to our source:

Although we refer to these behaviors as sexual, it is important to note that the intentions and motivations for these behaviors may be unrelated to sexual gratification or drives as we adults understand them.

Myers, By John E. B. The APSAC Handbook on Child Maltreatment. American Professional Society on the Abuse of Children

Well, of course. Little kids have no sex drive, so obviously they are not doing this stuff for the same reasons we adults are. Why are they doing this? Curiosity, discovering who they are, simple play, fooling around, no particular reason, etc.

Now despite the lack of a sex drive, some children do have sexual behavioral problems, and they do need some intervention. There’s normal childhood sex play, and there’s activity far beyond the norm. These are the outliers, and you need to call in professional help form the therapeutic community.

All this research led me to the conclusion that little kids have no sex drive at all, despite the fact that the pedophiles insist that they do. Well, guess what? The pedophiles are lying. Surprise, surprise. The pedophiles probably have their reasons for wanting to believe this. If we posit that children have full-blown sex drives like adults, then this suggests that children have sexual wants and needs, and the pedophiles are simply coming to the rescue and supplying these kids with what they need.

The pedophiles’ sex with the children then is fully justified, and if this were true, logically, children should probably be encouraged to have sex with the pedophiles to take care of their sexual desires and drives. This belief lets the pedophiles off the hook and makes their behavior seem not bad, but good. They’re not hurting kids, they’re helping kids. I am sure this is comforting for the pedophiles to use this defense mechanism, but that doesn’t mean it’s true.

This discovery happened to lead me on to my next quest. Well, if kids have no sex drive as I assumed, when exactly does the sex drive come on? I decided to research females because I only like females. Girls and women. They’re all great. God bless em all and thank you Lord for creating these creatures.

I know nothing about boys. Perhaps a gay man can go do that research for us.

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Filed under Biology, Gender Studies, Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Mental Illness, Pedophilia, Psychology, Psychopathology, Science, Sex

Updated March 14: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Note to commenters 3-22-17: I notice a huge number of you are coming in from Facebook. If you came from Facebook, could you please link me the page you came from so I can go over there and look at the postings. Thank for your cooperation!

Note to commenters 3-21-17: I will not allow the words pedophile, pedophilic or pedophilia to be used in connection with this crime because there is no pedophilia involved in this crime, and there is no evidence that the offender is a pedophile. These girls are too old for that. You may use it if you think Unsub committed other crimes with younger girls somewhere else.

The perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, although he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Note 2 to commenters: I am really getting sick and tired of saying this, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. The only thing that is represented as fact as statements sourced from LE or the media.

And incidentally, the way I wrote up the case is precisely how detectives work a case. Detectives do not work cases using the scientific method. If they did, they would hardly solve one case. It’s more “We believe this for now…this is true for now…at the moment, this is what we think happened…we believe…” They are throwing out endless theories about what really happened and accepting them as (temporary) facts. They are then continuously revising and throwing out theories and creating new ones.

Being  a detective is about being wrong. Not just once, but being wrong over and over so many times your head will want to come off. If you can’t handle being wrong, then detective work is surely not for you. Finally detectives arrive at enough information to file a case against someone, but a lot of that is not factual either. They believe he did the crime. They believe that this, that, or the other happened with no way to really prove it – it’s just what they conjecture.

If he is convicted, then the theory that he did the crime is validated as fact, but I am not sure what other evidence is. And even court decisions are not scientific fact because they get overturned all the time. There are not a whole lot of 100% certain, clear scientific facts in LE work, detective work on the judicial system itself. A good portion of the decisions made turn out to be theories, temporary but unstable facts, beliefs, hunches and guesswork, all represented as fact in the court.

If you have issues with theories, opinions and what not, just quit reading and get the Hell off my site right now and never come back. I am really getting sick and tired of this BS.

New update March 23: Updated March 23: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Huge update with major changes in my analysis of the case.

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is an update of the case as of March 14, 2017. There’s not a lot of new information here, but there is a new photo. Also I listed sources for each bit of information because I am getting tired of idiot haters complaining about this stuff.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and borderline areas such as cryptic statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and law enforcement investigation of this case. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. Some were associated with missing persons groups. This is the source of some of my material. Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case. This includes offender profiling.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

My Musings on This Case

Rumors state that Libby was killed on 2-13, possibly pretty quickly, and Abby died or 2-14. Although this is still somewhat up in the air, I believe this is correct. The published obits state those dates. This has been confirmed to me by sources close to law enforcement. There is a rumor that the families chose those dates as death dates, but that would apply only to funerals, not obits. Obit info would come straight from coroner’s report. Therefore, the coroner’s report had to state different death dates. See below for more evidence that the girls died on different days. Sources: People close to LE, obituaries, and funeral notices.

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself. Source: My speculation based on the nature of the offense and the obvious skill involved.

As of yet, there is no good evidence to suggest that the girls may have been catfished from social media. Original rumor relied upon an odd statement by LE very early ion the case, “Parents need to be very careful of what their kids are doing on social media.” Adding to that were suggestive remarks from Libby’s friends about odd activities on her Instagram page. Bottom line is there is just no good evidence for this at the moment. Sources: Cryptic comments from LE, suggestive remarks from Libby’s friends about odd activity on her Instagram account.

Unsub is 5’10, 180 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch. Source: Expert on CNN, paunch obvious in photo.

Unsub’s age is ~60. At the very least, that style of pants is outdated and nowadays is only worn by men over 40 in that area. Presence of fanny pack also indicates an older man. They were popular in the late 1980’s, but I am told that hardly anyone wears them anymore except for some older guys like me. And Unsub. Well, we two have something in common anyway. Curiously, my age is almost exactly the same as his. Sources: LE stated that he had a fanny pack. My estimate on age. Info on fanny packs and jeans style by people looking at the photos.

16681525_10155025082032118_8397740859158404533_n

Excellent new drawing of Unsub from an LE artist.

LE believes that Unsub came from out of state to do this crime. This is my theory also based on my POI. I believe that Unsub drove 350 miles over 5 1/2 hours to do this crime. I believe this is in part why he has not been caught yet. He doesn’t even live in the same state! Source: Recent remark by Indiana State Police quoted in media, my theory based on my favorite POI.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Assuming that is a pistol, and it is, then Unsub is left-handed. Source: Gun is obviously visible in photograph. Left-handedness concluded from the holstered gun pointing backwards on the right side.

16830677_10155067426604801_3110125659007687143_n

Photo clearly shows a semiautomatic .911 or 45 mm handgun holstered on his right, which means he is lefthanded. That’s either a gun, or I’m a monkey’s uncle. I can’t believe so many people are saying that is not a gun. It’s as clear as air.

Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. Source: LE statement.

Unsub is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing.

Part of this is no doubt to disguise himself, but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body where the girls could leave scratch marks if the girls fight back hard, although they still could scratch up his face pretty well. Source: LE statements about clothing. Statement about type of cap is my conjecture from the photo. Reason for being heavily dressed is common sense for an offender preparing to commit rape and murder.

Fanny pack probably where he kept his murder kit. Sources: LE statement quoted in the media. Murder kit is my conjecture. What else is in there? A first aid kit? Come on.

v2cCGZl

GIF image of Unsub photos run together.

There has been much talk about whether or not there were two murderers or one. It is not yet proven that there were two killers, and LE is leaning towards the theory that there was one killer. However, even LE themselves described the perpetrators of this crime as “the murderers.” And from the very start, they referred to Unsub as a participant instead of a suspect. Participant is almost never used unless LE thinks there is more than one killer.

Police are now walking this back by saying that it’s standard procedure to assume maybe more than one killer, but they’re lying. It isn’t. There was some specific reason why they thought there were two killers in this case, and we do not know what that reason was. At any rate, they seem to be walking the two killers theory back too, and they are leaning towards one killer. Source: Very strange LE statements.

There are different stories about when the girls died. Libby seems to have died very quickly on the afternoon of 2-13. Abbie may have died at this time too as per a family statement. This is a weak rumor. Yet from the very start there were rumors about Abbie lingering on. The first said that Abbie was still alive when found and died on the way to the hospital. Another said that she was still alive when found and died on the scene. These two are also weak rumors.

A third and stronger rumor said that Abbie’s body was still warm when found and that the medical examiner concluded that she survived the attack but died later of hypothermia. Making this odd is new evidence that the entire crime occurred on the afternoon of 2-13 and it was all over in an hour or two. If this is true then somehow, Abbie lingered on and stayed alive for ~20 hours after a homicidal attack on her. It’s hard to believe and devastatingly sad if true that she lingered this long, but perhaps it is testimony to some special spirit the girl had to maintain life at all costs.

Who knows. If the body was warm, this means that Abbie died of hypothermia no earlier than 9:30 AM, as the bodies were discovered at 12:30 PM, and bodies only stay warm for 2-3 hours after death. This means that Abbie was certainly still alive when the search started at 9:30 AM. This third stronger rumor seems to be the best analysis right now. I know this sounds awful, but to me this is the saddest and cruelest part of this whole mad crime. That girl lingering for 20 hours. Good God.  Source: Family members, people close to LE.

There are rumors that the search party stated the bodies were moved in the course of this crime. The searchers stated that the girls had to have been moved, taken away and then returned to be dumped because the search party covered the same ground in both searches. The locale where they were found on 2-14 had previously been searched on 2-13.

The problem with this story is that it appears to be incorrect. That side of the creek was not even searched on 2-13 because they had not yet had permission from the landowner. That area was only searched the morning of 2-14. Also these poor girls were covered with leaves, which makes Abbie’s heroic quest to live an even more remarkable testament to her profound spirit.

The best analysis now seems to be that the murders and rapes happened soon after the girls were abducted, not long after Unsub ordered them “Go down the hill.” The entire south side of the creek was roped off as a crime scene, so no doubt this was where the girls were raped and murdered sometime after 3 PM 2-13. So why no noise? No one heard? How do you rape and murder two girls in broad daylight without anyone hearing?

Anyway, after the girls were raped and homicidally attacked, apparently the bodies were somehow moved across the stream, once again without anyone seeing, to the north side of the creek where the bodies were dumped. Source: People close to the search party, people close to the case. Common sense from LE talk implying that the murders occurred very soon after Unsub’s voice recording.

There is indeed a voice recording of Unsub saying, “Go down the hill.” This was recorded heroically by Libby by turning on the recorder on her phone as the girls were being abducted. The sound recording of the crime is said to be much longer than what was released. It has also been implied, terrifyingly, that the sound recording is actually the recording of the rapes and murders. That probably makes it one of the worst sound recordings made in a crime case in some time. The last one coming close to this would have to be the recordings from the Tool Box Murders in 1979. Source: People close to the case.

Anyway, I can now reveal part of what is on the unreleased portion of the tape. After Unsub says, “Go down the hill,” at some point later, the next thing we hear is both girls screaming. Good Lord. It’s no wonder LE doesn’t want to release that tape. Source: A person close to the families.

The place where the girls were found was described as pristine by members of the search party. The site of a recent homicide, especially a bloody and brutal one, never looks pristine. Just forget it. So we must conclude that the site where the girls were found was a body dump site and they were murdered on the other side of the creek. Sources: People close to the search party.

A prior theory of mine that was adopted by many others was based upon the insistence of search party members that the girls had to have been moved because the place where they were found on 2-14 was already searched on 2-13. First, even if it were true, the girls were covered with leaves so they could have easily been overlooked in the dark.

This theory was quite complex and involved the girls surviving the initial abduction despite LE statements implying that they did not.

Problem one. It also needed the girls to have been placed in a vehicle and taken somewhere to some structure where the killer(s) did their deeds. What structure? Where? How were they not seen?

Problem two. And it implied killers idiotically and implausibly returning to the scene of the abduction to dump the bodies, possibly on 2-14. And those bodies would have had to have been dumped right under the nose of Ron Logan as he resided on his property.

Problem three. Worst of all, it seemed to have needed the search area to be kept under surveillance  from 3 PM 2-13 until 2-14 2:30 AM. How did this happen? Who was the lookout?

This washed-out theory had so many bizarre problems with it that I am glad we have the new theory of the killings and dumpings both occurring on the afternoon of 2-13 soon after the abductions. This ties it all together so much better. Not to mention Occam’s Razor of course. Source: People close to the case, my own theorizing.

There is talk of a Ford Mustang that can be barely seen in  lower left of the photo of Abbie on the bridge below the bridge. It is very hard to make out, but it could well be a vehicle. How it was determined to be a Ford Mustang and a white one at that is not known. It is not yet known how this vehicle was involved in the case. The best analyses are that the girls were not placed in this car but instead that this car was either simply in the area for some innocuous reason or that the car was involved in the crime but in some other way than placement or transporting of the girls. Perhaps that is Unsub’s vehicle. Who knows?

The road that it is parked on  is a very little used road that almost no one has even heard of. It appears to have been a road used by workers to maintain  the bridge. Access to it is quite difficult and involves some convoluted twists and turns of road, not to mention that part of the access is via a private driveway. It does seem very odd to me that that car is in that location right before the girls got abducted. I am thinking that that car does not belong there at all and that it is significant to the case in some unknown way. Source: Sleuths analyzing the photo of Libby on the bridge, people close to the case.

17270994_10202721686881519_1637152276_n

The vehicle can barely be seen circled in blue, or maybe you can’t make it out at all. This photo has now been enhanced.

17274770_10202721695881744_974107941_n

The vehicle is still hard to make out in this enhanced photo, but if you look very carefully, you might be able to see a car. Or maybe you won’t. Squint and try your luck.

Libby’s grandfather who raised her made an odd statement, “I know Libby. She put up one Hell of a fight.” The grandfather has been cleared. However, he is correct that Libby put up a strong battle. The reason that the grandfather said she put up a wild fight is probably because that is what it says in the medical report. If she fought hard, there will be talk of defensive wounds and maybe DNA under her nails.

The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds because she had many small wounds on her body and face. In that case, Unsub may have scratch marks. Source: Media reports and statements from people at the funeral. Common sense that the only way the grandfather would known that she fought hard was if he saw the coroners’ report.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was probably used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet, probably with the gun. However, I do not believe the gun was used to kill the girls. It would have made too much noise. Rumors that this was not a gun crime are correct. Source: Common sense that the gun would be the best way to control the girls and common sense that a gun crime would have involved audible gunshots. No gunshots were heard, so doubtless there was no gun fired in this crime.

There is a rumor that both girls had their throats slit. This is a strong rumor. Funerals were open casket, and both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit. There are two rumors about the knife attack on one of the girls. A weak rumor says she was decapitated. The strong rumor says she was nearly decapitated. A decapitation would have been hard for a funeral director to hide and both girls had their heads on at the funeral. Of the two rumors, the strong one looks better, but we don’t even know if the girl’s wound was that grievous.

The girl who suffered this grievous wound must have been poor Libby because Abbie’s wound was apparently mild enough to survive for 20 hours after the attack. No one can survive a near-decapitation. Even the incredibly determined Abbie, who I am starting to think is Supergirl, could not have survived that. Sources: Rumors, very first reports of the crime from family members. Later confirmation from people close to LE. Statements by people at the funeral.

And now I have some even worse news to report. A new rumor says that both girls were beaten so badly in their faces that they were nearly unrecognizable. This rumor may well be true, but at least Abbie was fixed up pretty good in her face for the funeral, so one wonders how a funeral director could have covered up such devastating wounds. Source: An apparently knowledgeable and trustworthy female commenter from Delphi on a website.

This offense was clearly sexually motivated and it seems quite clear that sexual assault occurred in the course of the crime. About this, there are two rumors. A weak rumor said that Libby was found clothed and Abbie was nude. This rumor has logical problems as it is generally assumed that both girls were raped. So Unsub raped her, killed her, and then thoughtfully put her clothes back on? Come on. The second rumor that both girls were found nude and raped is stronger and seems to be better.  Sources: Very first reports of the crime from family members and later confirmation from people close to LE, general rumors.

The girls’ clothing was found in the creek. This was no doubt an attempt by Unsub to destroy any DNA evidence. Source: Statements from reporter at the scene. Common sense indicates that this was an attempt to destroy DNA in the case.

Ron Logan, the property owner where the girls were found, was in Lafayette, Indiana on 2-13, and Unsub may have known he would not be there, but there is no proof of this. How he may have known this, I have no idea. Source: Media.

There is now a lot of talk that Ron Logan or perhaps his son were involved in this crime. This always struck me as unlikely, and Logan was quickly cleared. Now sometimes cleared suspects are later re-evaluated, accused of being culpable and arrested. But that’s pretty rare. And some of the people who cleared him were the FBI, making a false clearance even less likely.

Ron Logan was detained last weekend on a probation violation stemming from a drunk driving arrest earlier. The 77 year old Logan reportedly has a drinking problem. This arrest has sparked wild rumors that Logan was the killer of those girls. He never struck me as the type and he’s a bit old for a murdering rapist. Logan’s son is also being accused, but I am not impressed by the  weak evidence against him. Neither man strikes me as a likely POI. Source: Rumors, sleuths, media interviews, news reports, my own analytical skills.

There has been much talk of Jimmy Duvall possibly being Unsub. Duvall committed a serious crime against an 11 year old girl quite some time ago when he was 23. A month before, he had committed a similar offense. The judge said he had a “character disorder.” This typically means a personality disorder and used in a case like this, it surely means that has Antisocial Personality Disorder. In other words, Duvall is a sociopath or a psychopath. He served a good ~25 years for this crime and was released ~8 years ago.

He has apparently not offended since he has been released. Mr. Duvall was taken in for questioning early in this case and was asked to give a DNA sample. He then returned to his job at the auto plant. Rumors say that Duvall took 2-13 off as the first day off work in years and has since disappeared.

Neither rumor is correct. Yes, Duvall took 2-13. After all, it was his day off, why wouldn’t he? And he has not actually disappeared. My understanding is that he is at home taking a sick leave.

His creepy Facebook page was the subject of much discussion. It portrayed a man obsessed with evil, death, the Devil, murder and other pleasant themes. He also seemed to be a man struggling very had against his antisocial urges. No doubt he has a paraphilia, and of course he is sociopathic. But the best analysis is that LE has cleared Duvall of participation in this crime.  Sources: Rumors, court cases, sex offender files, Facebook pages.

Three other posts in this series:

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in Both the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

The Case for Linking the Delphi Murders with the Evansdale Murders

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

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Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I sometimes get involved in websleuthing. I don’t do it all the time, but I’ve been doing this for years.

I have also worked in real life with detectives attempting to solve an attempted homicide of a policeman in New Jersey in the 1960’s or 1970’s. I worked with detectives from California and New Jersey on that case. I had a good POI, and they were very interested in this case. I was very impressed with all three detectives in the case.

I am very interested in this sort of thing, and I have researched heavily a few cases. I have never caught anyone yet though. I wish I had. I am particularly interested in serial killings involving rape of women and molestation of girls. Basically rapist-murderers or child killers. In almost all such cases, the children are sexually molested. Repeat child killers are almost always sexually motivated. We are dealing with a sadistic pedophile in these cases. In the case of women, we are almost always dealing with a sexual sadist. In almost all such cases, we are dealing with sociopaths or psychopaths, probably the latter. I’m not interested in sleuthing out any other sort of cases, sorry. I have studied serial killers for many years, and I know a lot about them.

My counseling practice deals heavily with people who are consumed by thoughts of child molesting, violence against others, or homicide. I have to do differential diagnosis to determine pedophilia vs. no pedophilia and dangerous person versus non-dangerous person all the time.

As part of this work, I had to do a lot of research on violent people, especially murderers and serial killers. I have also done a lot of research into psychopathy and sexual sadism. I had to do a lot of research into pedophilia, which even included studying pedophile and hebephile websites where these people post.

These sites are on the Open Internet, and really there is no real child pornography on these sites. It’s mostly just gray area stuff and pedophiles/hebephiles talking about their common sexual interest. As a result, you can learn quite a bit of how these people think. It’s a valuable experience if you wish to understand pedophilia or hebephilia.

Confessions of molesting children on these forums are rare. I have only seen four confessions, and two involved 13 year old girls, which is arguably not even pedophilia.

It is a mistake to think that everyone on those boards is a pedophile or hebephile. Pedophile boards often consist of about 1/2 pedophiles and 1/2 pedophile-haters who abuse and threaten the pedophiles. So at least half of the people on those boards are not even pedophiles. They are the opposite.

If you think this website is valuable to you, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

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Updated February 26: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abbie Williams

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that can be determined from this crime as it was not a pedophilic offense. Instead, this was a hebephilic offense. And the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, although he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Thank you so much for this. I am getting tired of words being misused. And now we are being scientific on the board.

Note 2 to commenters: I am really getting sick and tired of saying this, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. The only thing that is represented as fact as statements sourced from LE or the media.

And incidentally, the way I wrote up the case is precisely how detectives work a case. Detectives do not work cases using the scientific method. If they did, they would hardly solve one case. It’s more “We believe this for now…this is true for now…at the moment, this is what we think happened…we believe…” They are throwing out endless theories about what really happened and accepting them as (temporary) facts. They are then continuously revising and throwing out theories and creating new ones.

Being  a detective is about being wrong. Not just once, but being wrong over and over so many times your head will want to come off. If you can’t handle being wrong, then detective work is surely not for you. Finally detectives arrive at enough information to file a case against someone, but a lot of that is not factual either. They believe he did the crime. They believe that this, that, or the other happened with no way to really prove it – it’s just what they conjecture.

If he is convicted, then the theory that he did the crime is validated as fact, but I am not sure what other evidence is. And even court decisions are not scientific fact because they get overturned all the time. There are not a whole lot of 100% certain, clear scientific facts in LE work, detective work on the judicial system itself. A good portion of the decisions made turn out to be theories, temporary but unstable facts, beliefs, hunches and guesswork, all represented as fact in the court.

If you have issues with theories, opinions and what not, just quit reading and get the Hell off my site right now and never come back. I am really getting sick and tired of this BS.

This post has now been updated:

Updated March 6: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is an update of the case as of February 26, 2017.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and borderline areas such as cryptic statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and law enforcement investigation of this case. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. Some were associated with missing persons groups. I have pretty good sleuthing skills involving research. This includes digging through background information databases online and other sorts of web research.

This is the source of some of my material.

I also worked a bit with Indiana State Police and the FBI, sharing my POI’s and tips with them. It is not an astounding statement. Please realize that a lot of people are working with LE in trying to solve this case. However, LE did not reveal much information to me other than some cleared suspects. Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case. This includes offender profiling. And I believe I have some mild psi skills.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

My Musings on This Case

The girls were obviously tied up, I believe with a rope. But it is not proven that rope was used.

I believe that Libby was killed on 2-13, possibly pretty quickly, and Abby died or 2-14. The published obits state those dates. This has been confirmed to me by sources close to law enforcement. There is a rumor that the families chose those dates as death dates, but that would apply only to funerals, not obits. Obit info would come straight from coroner report. Therefore, the coroner report had to state different death dates. See below for more evidence that the girls died on different days.

When the search was going on, Libby’s phone was dead.

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself.

I have reason to believe that these girls were catfished, possibly via Libby’s Instagram page, although this is not proven yet. That is, the girls may have thought they were going there to meet a teenage boy, but instead they met the killer. The killer would have pretended to be a teenage boy in  order to lure the girls. There is no hard evidence for this, but there is some suggestive evidence via cryptic LE statements and friends of Libby’s speaking about activity on her Instagram account.

In my opinion, Unsub is approximately 5’8-5’10, ~160 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch.

LE stated that they believe that Unsub came from out of state to do this crime.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Assuming that is a pistol, and it is, then Unsub is left-handed. He is either left-handed or pretending to be left-handed. Pretending to be left-handed makes no sense in a case like this as it would be hard to draw with his fake left. This would result in a clumsy draw resulting in possible dropping or fumbling with the weapon. Therefore, Unsub is left-handed.

Law enforcement stated in the media that Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. 

He is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather, but February in Indiana is pretty cold. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing. Part of this is to disguise himself but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body if the girls fight back hard. The layers of clothing will prevent them from leaving scratch marks on his body, although they still could scratch up his face pretty good.

LE confirmed in the media that Unsub has a fanny pack. This is probably where he kept his murder kit.

Talk of backpacks and duffel bags makes no sense to me. I do not believe that Unsub had a backpack or a duffel bag, but perhaps he did. At any rate, there was a man dressed in all black seen at the time also. This man definitely had a backpack. I believe that this man participated in the murders with Unsub. In other words, there were two killers.

There were apparently two killers in this case. This can be gleaned from cryptic LE statements. Very quickly, with the release of the photo, LE described Unsub as the man who “participated” in the killings. However, if you study this sort of thing, LE never uses the word participated when describing a crime with a single killer. That verb is only used when there is more than one killer. I kept wondering why they always used the word participated.

At the large video press conference, we got more evidence. At ~3 minute mark, the officer says, “And I especially want to thank the person whose information will lead to the arrest of the murderers of these girls.” I have listened to that part of the tape over and over, and he clearly said murderers. He did not misspeak. He said that intentionally.

Later in the conference, after a cryptic statement by an officer, someone in the audience jumped up and asked, “Wait a minute! Do you think there were two killers?” The officer then said, “Look, this is one of the strangest,  oddest, most confusing and  convoluted cases I have ever worked on, ok? So just keep that in mind.” With that statement, it’s pretty clear that he is cryptically stating that there were two killers. 

As far as how LE came to state that there were two killers by using the word “participated,” I believe that they came to that conclusion by gleaning four sets of DNA from the crime scene: Two sets were Libby and Abbie, and the third was Unsub. But if a fourth DNA sample was found at the site, that can only mean two killers. LE’s official statement right now is that they do not know whether there were one or two killers involved. I believe that the evidence revealed so far is sufficient to conclude that there were indeed two killers.

Sources close to law enforcement say that Abbie’s body was still warm when found, and the medical examiner concluded that she survived the attack but died later of hypothermia. If the body was warm, this means that Abbie died of hypothermia no earlier than 9:30 AM, as the bodies were discovered at 12:30 PM, and bodies only stay warm for 2-3 hours after death. This means that Abbie was certainly still alive when the search started at 9:30 AM.

Sources in the search party in the Delphi case confirmed that the bodies were moved in the course of this crime. They stated that the girls had to have been moved, taken away and then returned to be dumped because the search parties covered the same ground in both searches. The locale where they were found on 2-14 had previously been searched on 2-13. The 2-13 search began at 5:30 PM, and by that time, the girls had been moved out of the area. The attack began at ~2:15 PM, so the girls were moved out of the area sometime between 2:30-5:30 PM.

Unsub must have put the girls in his vehicle and transported them somewhere where he assaulted them either in his vehicle or at a residence, either his own residence, an associate’s residence, an abandoned residence, or a residence that he had use of. Unsub was certainly not in the area from 5:30 PM on 2-13 until 2:30 AM on 2-14 and from 9:30 AM-12:30 PM on 2-14. Therefore, the girls were returned to the site on 2-14 between 2:30 PM-9:30 AM on the morning of 2-14. Unsub has a seven hour window on 2-14 in which to return the girls to the site.

Unsub probably parked his vehicle on the road next to the cemetery. Police vehicles were seen in the area, but they were not searching the cemetery. Instead there was a long line of them parked on the road next to the cemetery. Therefore, Unsub may have parked his vehicle on the road next to the cemetery.

In published UK media, grandfather who raised her made an odd statement, “I know Libby. She put up one Hell of a fight.” The grandfather has been cleared. However, he is correct that Libby put up a strong battle. The reason that the grandfather said she put up a wild fight is probably because that is what it says in the medical report. If she fought hard, there will be talk of defensive wounds and maybe DNA under her nails. The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds. In that case, Unsub may have scratch marks.

I do not believe that LE has any particular POI at this moment. They are far away from solving this case.

The first LE they did was to go around questioning people who were being talked about as possible suspects. They have already cleared a number of people this way. They are also going around to all of the local RSO’s and questioning them. They want them to come talk about the case. While at the police station, they searched their phones and asked them to submit DNA. They are clearing many of the RSO’s this way.

The raid was on the property of the Jim Maxwell who lives on Bicycle Road. He is completely innocent and cleared. This poor guy had nothing to do with it.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet, probably with the gun. However, I do not believe the gun was used to kill the girls. It would have made too much noise. Rumors that this was not a gun crime are probably correct.

Sources people close to law enforcement confirmed that both girls had their throats slit. Funerals were open casket, and witnesses stated that both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit. Libby also had small wounds in many places on her body, and her face had been somewhat injured. This is because she fought back against him very hard.

This is obviously a sexually motivated offense. Initial reports said both girls were raped. Sources close to law enforcement confirmed that rape was involved in this case and that Abbie was definitely raped. Whether Libby got raped is not known, and there are problems with the theory. There are different reports about the state of the bodies. There are rumors that both girls were nude. But sources close to LE say that Abbie was nude while Libby was clothed. It is difficult to reconcile Libby being raped with her being found fully clothed.

There is no evidence of physical torture in this case.

Prepubertal girls have no sex drive, and they have no sexual interest in boys. If these were prepubertal girls, we could rule out their meeting a boy via social media, as girls that age are not interested in boys sexually. At sexarche, usually age 13, the sex drive comes on strongly, and many girls become very sexually interested in boys and even men. Both girls had surely passed sexarche. Therefore, it makes perfect sense that they could have been there to meet a boy their age.

Ron Logan, the property owner where the girls were found, was in Lafayette, Indiana on 2-13, and Unsub may have known he would not be there, but there is no proof of this. How he may have known this, I have no idea.

Other posts in this series:

Possible Major Break in the Delphi and Evansdale Murders

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

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