Category Archives: Marxism

Why Do Some Countries Lack a Class Conscious Working Class?

John Engelman: Contrary to what Karl Marx said, for most people most of the time loyalties of nation, race and ethnicity are stronger than loyalties of class. The working class in the United States has always been more diverse than the working class in European countries. It is becoming more diverse with the influx of non whites.

To get class consciousness you really need a homogeneous working class. It helps if the working class is ethnically distinct from the upper class. In Scotland the upper class is English, or Anglicized Scottish. That is to say Scottish, but educated in England, and often speaking with English accents.

The clear majority of Scots vote for the British Labour Party. English workers are more likely to vote for the British Conservative Party.

The argument is circular in a sense because as you look around the world, generally what you see in most cases is an ethnically homogenous working class.

Would you describe the working classes of Latin America as homogeneous or diverse? They seem to be a mixture of White, Indian and Black and the mestizo, mulatto and Zambo mixtures, correct? Yet the diverse working classes down there have high working class consciousness despite their diverse nature.

Aren’t North African and Gulf countries fairly mixed between Blacks and Arabs?

Certainly in Arabia, lands with diverse working classes of Kurds, Arabs and Iranian working classes are all very left.

I believe Sri Lanka even with the vicious Tamil versus Sinhalese war, the diverse working class is leftwing. In Burma the working class is very left although there have been wild ethnic wars sputtering on for decades.

In Russia and other nations of the former USSR, there are many ethnic minorities, but the workers are still working class.

A recent exception is Ukraine where workers have gone radical Right. The former Yugoslavia is still very leftwing even after all of the ethnic conflict and even slaughter of past years. Spain’s working class is very radical despite an armed conflict in the Basque region and separatists in Catalonia. The different religions hate each other in North Ireland, but the Scottish Protestant workers are as class conscious as the Irish Catholic ones. Switzerland is divided between three ethnic groups – French, Germans, and Italians – yet it is a very leftwing country.

The extreme tribalism in Africa has not prevented the working classes from being class conscious.

Is the working class of England voting Tory yet? Or do you just mean that they are more likely to vote Tory than the Scots are?

Most workers in Europe, Arabia, North Africa, Africa, the former USSR, China, Southeast Asia, Central Asia, Japan, South Korea, Nepal are the same ethnicity as the ruling classes of those places, yet workers have a high degree of class consciousness in all of those places.

The places where working class consciousness has been harder to develop were those that had a Chinese ruling class as in Philippines and Indonesia.

I think we need to come up with some better theories about the poor class consciousness of the US working class. If you are looking for examples elsewhere, India, the Philippines, Indonesia, Taiwan, Australia, the Baltics and Colombia are places with quite poor working class consciousness.

In Australia it is recent as US style conservatism is imported.

A similar trend is underway in Canada and has been since Thatcher in the UK. But the UK is in nearly a revolutionary situation. A lot of the working classes are militant and radicalized, while a lot of the country has at the same time gone Tory. When Thatcher died, there were anti-rich riots in housing estates across the land. Thatcher was burned in effigy in the streets. Can you imagine that happening in the US?

The recent riots in the UK also had a class undercurrent. I was dating a British woman at the time, and she told me that local storeowners who treated the community well were spared by rioters. Rioters focused on stores selling upscale goods to the rich. Many corporate outlets were also smashed.

She told me that a number of those outlets had a reputation for not paying taxes to the UK by hiding money offshore. She said the rioters knew who those companies were, and they were brutally singled out. Many outlets were burned to the ground. Can you imagine heavily Black rioters in the US having class consciousness like that?

The Baltics are a case of entire nations full of complete idiots who hate Communism so much that they went into an extreme overreaction against Communism and turned against anything socialist, left, liberal or mildly progressive. Fascist heroes including many Nazis with a lot of Jewish blood on their hands were celebrated. Communist parties were outlawed, and Russian minorities were viciously maltreated.

Radical rightwingers were elected in all of these lands, and Chicago Boys Friedmanite experiments were undertaken. The results were predictable. In the recent economic crash, the most neoliberal European countries were the most devastated of all. Estonia was eviscerated, and Latvia was almost wiped off the map. 1/3 of the Latvian population left the country, including almost all of the educated people.

The Philippines and Indonesian cases are up for discussion, but these are Latin American situations of a ruling class of a different ethnicity than the working classes holding forth brutally and anti-democratically over the people. In addition, the workers have little consciousness.

Taiwan has a similar legacy where extreme hatred of Communism resulted in being ruled by reactionary fascist anti-Communists for decades. There is a nascent Left now, but it has little power yet. The wealth of the country seems to have gotten in the way of working class consciousness. Probably the extreme anti-Communism helped too, as any working class movement could be quickly portrayed as Communist.

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Mexicans, a Portrait of a Depoliticized People

Mexicans in their own country and in the US are profoundly depoliticized and do not know their ass from a hole in the ground politically, for which I blame that awful fake revolutionary party in power for decades. It is true that the party preserved many good progressive structures, but they didn’t go further from that.

It’s hard to call yourselves a revolutionary party in a land where many people complete only 2nd-5th grade education.

I meet Mexicans like this all the time aged 20-40. Some told me that their kids never went to school past 5th grade. It costs money to go to school down there, and many people cannot afford it, so their kids only get a few years’ schooling. This is happening to this very day. Many rural schools are defunded and have no money to pay teachers, so many students drop out in the 2nd grade or so to go work out in the fields.

Sound like a revolutionary party?

Yes, there is free medical care and it is decent enough. You might have to wait in line all day, but you will still get in, and they will treat you. As with everything else, it is horribly defunded.

Sound like a revolutionary party?

28% of Mexican sewage flows into rivers untreated.

Sound like a revolutionary party?

The ejido system brought by the Mexican Revolution is great and has prevented another revolution, but it was never properly funded. Most land in Mexico is owned by the state and divided into ejidos. Anyone who cannot make a living in the cities can always go to some ejido and join as a worker and work the land. At least you will end up with enough food to eat. However, some recent administrations have started to privatize the ejido system, which will be catastrophic for Mexicans.

The oil company remains nationalized, a source of pride for most Mexicans. I remember gas was damn cheap down there. There was only one type of gas station, but they sure sold gas cheap. However, there have been recent moves to privatize the oil company, which have run in to a lot of opposition. I believe it was privatized under Benito Juarez.

 

Because I am a provocateur, I like to mess around with the local Mexicans and tell them I am a radical. I flat out tell them that I am a Communist and a revolutionary. They often look a bit puzzled, but they are not angry. They often seem curious and seem to think that I am on their side. Then I make a fist and say “Revolution! Benito Juarez! Pancho Villa! Emilio Zapata!”

Everyone is very happy and cheers me on. These are the heroes of the Mexican Revolution and afterwards and frankly, all of them were out and out Leftists. So the heroes of the Mexican working class for almost a century have been full blown Leftists. I would say there is a lot of underground and unconscious support for Leftism among working class Mexicans and of course Salvadorans. Mexicans simply had their revolutionary spirit co-opted by that fake revolutionary party which started out with great motives but got very corrupted and bureaucratized over time

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Would Anyone in the US with Normal Intelligence (98 IQ), Ambition, and Absence of Disastrous Life Choices Be Impoverished?

Answered on Quora.

Of course. I know people with IQ’s of 140–150, good education (BA to MA), good looks, good social skills, good work history, etc. who are either impoverished or have a low income.

Making money is a lot more of a crap shoot than anyone thinks, especially in capitalism because capitalism doesn’t care about utilizing every member of society to their fullest potential.

The Communist countries, no matter what you think of them (and I include China here), probably would have tested all of these people early in life, realized that their intelligence at least had to be utilized by society, and set them on some sort of a track towards putting these people’s intelligence at least in positions where they could maximally benefit society and the state. The Communists were not interested in wasting human potential. In fact, they were ideologically opposed to it.

Capitalism on the other hand claims to care about human potential but actually is neither in favor of or opposed to utilizing it. It is simply indifferent to whether the human potential of society is utilized or not. Capitalism is about maximizing profits and nothing else. If profits can still be maximized while still wasting the potential of millions, capitalism is indifferent.

Furthermore, capitalism, unlike Communism, is indifferent to maximizing human potential to better society and the state. Capitalism is hostile to the state and would just as soon almost do away with it, and capitalism cares not one whit about benefiting society as a whole. As long as high profits are being made, capitalists could care less about what state society, the nation, or the ethnic group are in because they are indifferent to the well-being of all of these things.

I am not advocating for Communism or socialism here over capitalism. There are serious benefits and drawbacks to each system. But the Communists obviously did a much better job than the capitalists at getting the maximal benefit to society and the nation out of as many individuals as possible.

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A Chinese Man Looks at Africa

How many times have we heard this before? This video is being condemned in the comments as racist. It’s not. Anyway, how many times have you heard similar things about Africans? There’s no end to anecdotes like this.

That said, I think the Chinese will be very good for Africa. People do not understand the Chinese Communist Party. They really are Communists. I know this. There’s no need to argue about it.

This notion that they have all turned into radical neoliberal laissez faire capitalists is wishful thinking on the part of the capitalists. Their system is called Market Socialism or the Social Market, and that is exactly what it is. 88% of investment in China comes from the state. 45% of the economy is publicly owned. All of the banks are publicly owned. The private sector is severely regulated. They still have a planned economy all the way down to actually existing five-year plans. And they have admitted that they are still committed to the goal of spreading Communism around the world. They are spending a lot of money at US educational institutions to promote socialism.

The Chinese effort in Africa is not neocolonialism or imperialism. China is not an imperialist country. It can’t be. They work on the basis of solidarity, not neocolonialism and imperialism. A Communist country can’t be imperialist anyway. Social imperialism was a made up thing that never existed. Soviet imperialism was a notion invented by the Cold War.

The Chinese do and will operate in Africa on a win-win basis. We win, you win. Exactly the opposite of the way the US and other imperialist countries operate – my way or the high way, do as we say or else, we exploit you while you lie back and enjoy it, etc.

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The Decline and Fall of the United Kingdom

Ninnibooboos: Macron is the new Thatcher.

The UK I think now, is probably the most corrupt country on the planet. Our government is seriously seriously evil. We have big elections here in the UK next month where the vile, fascist Tories have been polling so low that they predict a Corbyn Government will closely follow. We need our Jezza (Jeremy Corbyn) as our Prime Minister. Every time we go to war, he accurately predicts that it is an illegal move. He will clear out the Russian and Saudi London-based mafias and hopefully save us from being the worst country on the planet.

This is a great comment Ninni. I agree with most everything you say here. And Macron is the new Thatcher.

I am shocked at how bad the UK is becoming. It is like the Tories are trying to complete what Margaret could not.

The UK seems more and more like the US all the time (and that is never good), and the Tories seem more and more like the Republican Party all the time.

I always thought the UK was a so much more progressive, socialist and hence better country than ours, but I am not so sure anymore. It is frankly shocking and appalling what is going on over there.

And yes, the UK badly needs Corbyn.

The pendulum, thankfully, only swings so far towards reaction and concentration of wealth. They you get an inevitable Left revolution or blowback, by election or by some sort of violence and often by both.

People really need to read Marx. He spelled this out so clearly, better than anyone at the time.

Marx’s analysis of capitalism is virtually unsurpassed. He actually praises capitalism to the skies (read him and see) but he felt it was so full of its own contradictions that it was not sustainable, and of course he had a lot of beefs with it too. In particular, Marx praises the dynamism, productivity, and chameleon-like nature of capitalism. Just when you think you have capitalism pinned down, it squirms away like a blob or mercury and transforms into something else. I mean a capitalist could put the word Revolution! on his products, sell a million of them and pocket a fortune. That sort of adaptivity is pretty incredible, let’s face it.

Marx was right!

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How the Cultural Left Ties Their System into Marxist and Left Ideology, or The Socialism of Culture

Being a socialist is starting to mean something beyond economics nowadays, but we don’t agree with that. Socialism is first and foremost an economic system and only an economic system. All of the other Left stuff is Cultural Left, which is outside of socialist economics.

Modern Leftists try to say that if you are for a fair economic system, you have to be for a fair cultural system too, which boils down to SJW Culture because it does try to be ultra-fair to everyone and in their favor, I will say that SJW’s are first and foremost largely at war with social sadism and they are trying to get everyone to be very nice to everyone else.

Where they fail is when they declare war on Whites, males and increasingly heterosexuals and cisgendered people as de facto oppressors. This is where the socialism comes in.

The Cultural Left, well, the true Leftists among them anyway, is trying to say that Whites, males and now heterosexuals and cisgendered are Oppressors in the same way that the rich, the bourgeois, and the upper middle class are Oppressors against the workers and the lower classes. As revolution against the exploiters and oppressor classes by the workers was valid according to Marxist ethics, so revolution against Whites, males, and now heterosexuals and cisgendered is valid also according to Marxist ethics, which they have now expanded off into culture.

I am talking about the actual Leftists on the Cultural Left, who are definitely a minority. Most Cultural Left types are quite bourgeois and often have incorporated ruling class values into their worldview as Marx said. “The values of any society are the values of the ruling classes” – Marx. This idea was much expanded by Gramsci in The Prison Notebooks.

Actually Marx and Engels were both racist in some ways following the fashion of the time. They said little about women’s rights and nothing at all about homosexuals and transsexuals. For most of the 20th Century, Marxist regimes punished homosexuals mercilessly, as it was considered a perversion, a deviation, and worst of all, a bourgeois vice of indulgence.

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The Rich 1, The People 0

Here.

From the link, summing up my text below:

Wealthy politicians & working class ppl don’t mix, I don’t care what you’ve been taught in ur life! Wealthy ppl have their own specific interests & agendas which really doesn’t include helping the working poor!

Not just the working poor I might add.

Low income, working class, lower middle class and middle class – none of these classes ever benefit for the rule of the rich. The rich are always hostile to all of these classes, and oligarchic rule always results in the slow impoverishment and eventual devastation of all of these classes.

So the governor’s race in very liberal Illinois is down to a billionaire investor, an heir to a hotel empire (sound familiar?) on the “Democratic” side versus a hedge fund mogul ( figures) on the “Republican” side. I’ve been saying forever on here that we have two parties of the rich, a liberal party of the rich (the Democrats) and a conservative party of the rich (the Republicans). I suppose if you are rich and either liberal or conservative, these distinctions without a difference might even matter, but for the rest of us, it’s game over before the first pitch.

How many times do I have to keep telling people? The rich are not your friends. Not not not not not never ever ever your friends, not in a million years your friends, not in any possible universe your friends. If you are anywhere from poor to low income to any middle class less than the upper one, you’re always screwed voting for a rich man.

This is where it is instructive to read Marx. One thing we never learn in a  capitalist country, because no one bothers to teach us for fear that a bit of knowledge is dangerous, is that people pursue something called “class interests.” The poor  are supposed to pursue the class interests of the poor, the lower middle class, the middle class and the upper middle class all pursue their class interests.  And of course, the rich and the ruling class never fail to pursue their class interests because they are smart, well educated and know the score. The eternal scam of capitalist politics is a game where the rich are always trying to get everyone else to vote for the class interests of the rich.

One thing that Americans can’t seem to get through their thick heads is that these class interests are typically antagonistic to each other. I’ve been explaining this to otherwise intelligent Americans (mostly middle class Whites) for decades and it never seems to sink in. Middle and working class White Americans operate under the perpetural delusion that the class interests of the rich are the same as their own class interests.  What’s good for the rich is good for working and middle class Whites. The roots of these form of political Down’s Syndrome can be traced to an idiotic culture, boosterism, a casino mindset, grossly exaggerated expectations, can-do thinking, and general worship of rich men that working and middle class Whites have been engaging in for a very long time now.

I got some news for you.

The class interests of the rich are generally directly antithetical to the class interests of the middle and lower middle classes, the low income, and the poor. What’s good for the rich is bad for all of these folks. Every time the rich win, all of these folks lose. That’s why these classes should not care anything about the stupid stock market. I call the stock market The Index of Evil. The stock market responds to whatever is good for the rich. Whatever is bad for the rich, which is almost always good for the rest of these classes is bad for the stock market. In other words, if these other classes start to succeed in their class interests, the stock market will go down. And every time these classes get screwed, the stock market goes up just a bit more. So quit cheering on the stupid stock market!

As noted above, it works the other way. Typically, everything that is good for these other classes is bad for the rich. Money doesn’t grow on trees. For the other classes to prosper, they generally have to take money from other classes, often the rich. In capitalism, class war is perpetual. What this boils down to is that most of the classes are trying to take money for at least some of the other classes in order to enrich themselves.

The behavior of the rich in most capitalist societies is to progressively take more and more money from these other classes and put it in the pockets of the rich. And if  you study rich people long enough, one thing you will realize is that the rich never have enough money. I am serious. Your average billionaire is a hungry man, slavering for every nickel he can scrape up. I suppose it is like a drug where the more you do, the more you want and crave.

For 40 years now, US politics has been all about taking money from these other classes and giving it to the rich and the upper middle class. Now if you are rich or upper middle class, this was a damn good deal. But if you are in those other classes, it’s been slow motion hell on wheels, a doomed road trip to progressive immiseration.

What I am saying here is that the outcome of this race is already foreseen. We might as well not even bother. Who cares which rich man wins? The “liberal” rich man or the “conservative” rich man, what difference does it make. Each one is guaranteed to pursue his class interests as a gazillionaire, which will always be bad for most of the rest of us.

The outcome of the election can be foretold with little effort:

Rich 1, People 0.

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There’s No Red Baiting in California

Beauregard: Again, is social control always good?

Most people think a commie like yourself is something society shouldn’t tolerate, and you should hence get the shit beat out of you until you change.

No one is going to hit me for being practically a Commie. Some of the locals know about it and they don’t care, or they even like it, being Hispanics from Mexico and El Salvador. No one really knows I feel this way. If you walk around wearing a Communist t-shirt or  passing out Communist flyers, you might get some shit,  but unless you do that, no one is going to know.

Around here, no one cares if you are a Commie or nearly a Commie. Most people will shrug their shoulders or act like, “Well, that’s weird,” or “I don’t accept that at all, but I am going to overlook that about you,” or “Well, that’s ridiculous.” In all cases, they act like, “Well I am going to ignore this weird fact about you and still be your friend.”

This is California. No one cares about leftwing politics here, and there have always been a lot of Commies and Leftists of all sorts around this state. Look at the Bay Area. LA is full of all sorts of left-wingers. It’s been that way forever. Even if people are not Commies, liberalism is huge here. Most liberals don’t hate Commies. They’re not Commies and they don’t like the philosophy but they are not hardcore anti-Communists. Many people here call themselves progressives, and even out and open Leftists and self-proclaimed socialists are not rare. Most people regard Hard Left politics as interesting, amusing, or odd. Mostly people act like it is your personal business. California is not a state where Commies get beat up.

I’m not really a total Commie anyway. I am sort of an undifferentiated liberal to Commie leftwinger. I support most all of the Left.

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“The Most Uncomfortably Honest Person On the Net”

Otherwise known as me.

What does /pol/ think of Robert Lindsay?

  ID:y5Kzqn7l No.151000405

Finally, somebody actually gets it. 95% of the stuff you hear about me is flat out wrong and the vast majority of that is simply lies and untruths. People just don’t get me at all. All they do is mischaracterize me. I know my own beliefs and values. I can obviously figure out if I am being mischaracterized or not.

This is one of the most perfect analyses of what I am doing here on the Net that I have ever read. Of course it comes from pol, the Alt Right/Nazi/White nationalist/whatever board.

I’m not a Nazi (I actually hate them) but Nazis, White nationalists, and Alt Right people are some of the few people who have managed to figure me out. Everyone else just doesn’t get it. They read the Book of Me but they didn’t understand it.

I am not sure what this means, except that maybe I really am Alt Left. It’s disturbing that only Alt Right people get me, but maybe that makes sense I am really Alt Left after all, with the original Alt Left being an Alt Right split. The original Alt Left had Alt Right roots (in fact it was an open Alt Right split), and the presence of certain aspects of the Alt Right are present in much of the true Alt Left to this day.

It’s a complicated theory, but Rabbit has written some excellent analyses along these lines. Read him if you don’t get it. Let’s put it this way. One great thing about the Alt Right was this Realism Uber Alles attitude – race realism, gender realism, sexual orientation realism, gender identity realism. It’s a scientific attitude towards the bitter  facts of life that rejects the SJW feel good mythology of Soma and happy pills. The SJW’s hearts are in the right place in a sense – they want everyone to be nice and quit picking on everyone else – but it’s anti-reality and they’ve turned into some weird Church Lady Commissars. They aren’t even fun anymore. SJW’s are as fun as a stern nun with a ruler in her hand.

Sometime I think Brandon Adamson is one the few Alt Left people who has figured me out. We are different, but in a way, Brandon is my child. The deepest roots of Brandon’s Alt Left are found in his reading of my Liberal Race Realism, my previous political project, which set Brandon slowly down the road to the Alt Left. LRR more or less turned into the Alt Left over years.

Most of the Alt Left is still far too rightwing for my and hopefully Brandon’s sensibilities.

It’s interesting though that the very earliest Alt Leftists (I will include Ryan England here also) are the ones who truly understood and stayed faithful to the complicated ethos of the early visions of the Alt Left.

In particular, the early Alt Left was very left on economics. I am some sort of weird liberal-to-Commie type and Brandon likes to call himself a “space Communist.” Ryan was originally know as Agent Commie, and his thinking has Marxist roots.

Brandon is getting some new followers that seem to be onto his Left of the Alt Right project – some sort of weird leftwing White nationalism which I do not support – but I wish him well. I’d be quite happy if more of these Alt Right guys went socialist. I don’t care if they vote of us or not. Why should I care? A sane politics grabs every vote it can.

How many people do Nazis kill, anyway? A few here and there?

And the neoliberalism of the corporate Democrats has killed tens of millions.

And the insane neoconservative wars of the Cold War Democrats has killed close to 2 million since 2003 alone.

What are we talking about here? At least 22 million deaths?

How many have these Alt Right Nazis killed in the last 30 years? It sure ain’t 22 million.

A socialist Nazi is 20 times better than a corporate Democrat, and I hate Nazis.

You pick your poison in life. Life is basically toxic, and you simply choose the poisons that harm you the least. And then you die.

Ashes, ashes, all fall down.

Momento mori!

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How America Has Achieved the Classless State of Communism (in an Odd Sense)

Granted, rich and middle class people think they are better than poor people. A lot of Whites or Asians think they are better. There is still some ethnic chauvinism around.

Nevertheless, I have had a low income for decades. I talk to people who make very good incomes sometimes, and they are very friendly to me. Some of them were even quite close to me, as in relatives. My income situation is not brought up. I am intelligent and highly educated and polite, and a lot of higher income people think people like that are interesting people regardless of their income. So those wealthier people will treat me well because I act like a White middle class college educated American. They don’t care about my income. That’s not important. What’s important is if you walk the walk and talk the talk. That actual particulars are somewhat irrelevant. A lot of culture in the US is about display more than essentials.

Sure people think like this. It is considered in very bad taste to brag about how rich you are or even to visibly look down on people of lower classes. If you do so openly, you are going to get told to knock it off in one way or another. I guarantee that you will be very disliked.

There was a guy at my junior college whose parents were rich. I went on a ski trip with him and other students to Colorado. From early on in the trip, he bragged all the time about how rich his family was. It wasn’t long before everyone on the whole trip hated him. People talked about him a lot behind his back. Others started making subtle remarks telling him to knock it the Hell off.

I roomed with the guy and three other guys. Towards the end of the week-long trip, I made some oblique comment about how his bragging about being rich was really angering a lot of people in the group. I didn’t come out and say it. Instead I said it in a sort of hidden code. He figured out what I meant, and he told me in an annoyed tone that he had gotten the message loud and clear. And he did pretty much knock it the Hell off.

We are very much a class-oriented society, but we are supposed to pretend that we are all equal. It is almost as if America has actually achieved a classless state of Communism. In that sense, we are a Communist country. We have extreme class differences, but you are not allowed to mention class in the US, so there is this sort of idea that we are all the same somehow regardless of money.

I lived in a working class White community for a while. There were a lot of well to do people there who had high paying jobs. Everyone was very nice to everyone else, even the trashmen, the clerks in the 7-11’s, and gas stations, basically all of what you would call lousy, low paying jobs. It is quite amazing to see how polite an attorney will be to a trashman or gas station clerk in a town like that. There is also this attitude in White culture that “you never put down a man for working at a job.” It goes along with “any job is a good job.” If you had a good job and treated the trashman or gas station clerk with disdain, a lot of people would see you and think very poorly of you. It is just not something you are supposed to do.

I am aware that Chinese think like that, along with Asians in general. Indians are notorious for this thinking. It may be common in some other parts of globe.

Americans consider this sort of thinking to be a sign of a backwards culture.

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