NOTE TO COMMENTERS 1:
I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources. How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below.
Also when I say I am 100% sure of something, that means that I am 100% sure of it in my own mind. All of us are 100% sure of all sorts of things we cannot prove. That’s the nature of the human condition. We simply assume many things are facts until proven otherwise. Now many of these things that I was completely certain of were later proven to be wrong. Such is the case with many other things people become certain of in their own mind. Once again, when I say I am sure or certain or 100% certain, it means only that I am sure in my own mind. I am not stating that any of these things are facts. They are simply my convictions. Any of all of these firmly held beliefs of mine about this case could possibly will later prove to be false.
The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache.
NOTE TO COMMENTERS 2:
I thought I made this one thing perfectly clear as Richard Nixon used to say:
I have no sources whatsoever among the families of the girls.
I have no sources whatsoever in LE, local or otherwise.
There ya go.
What I do have is sources close to the families. These people generally live in Delphi and the surrounding region. So that makes my rumors even more hearsay. I’m not even talking to the families. I am talking to people who talk to the families!
Of course I have no LE sources. I thought I made that clear. Never have. Yes, I have talked to some of them, but of course they didn’t tell me a thing. A couple of times they told me that a certain person was a POI or that a certain person had been cleared with an airtight alibi. I suppose they don’t mind giving out that information. But other than that, they don’t tell me jack. It’s hard enough to even get them to call you back. I think if I asked them if my name was Robert Lindsay, they would say, “I am sorry, but I cannot comment on matters relating to an ongoing investigation.” That’s how bad it is.
So what do I have? Once again, I have sources who are close to LE. They get their information from LE, then they talk to me. So once again this is even more hearsay, as I am not even talking to LE but to the people who are talking to LE.
I really wish people would quit claiming I have LE or family sources. I just don’t. If you think I have these sources, just quit reading my stuff right now and go away. You will not be missed!
NOTE TO COMMENTERS 3: The lies never end. The latest is “Lindsay takes other people’s theories and claims they are his own.” Of course I don’t. This website is nothing but a compendium of rumors from all over the Net regarding this crime. I go through the rumors and try to rank them on a scale of weak to strong. I compare them against other rumors to see which one is better. All sorts of theories have been flying around since day one. I report those too.
The theories are really just more rumors. I’d say the vast majority of the rumor theories reported here were thought up by other people. I find most of my theories on other sites about this crime. That’s how it works, you know. You get theories about the crime from others. Yes, you use your own theories and you use other people’s theories. I really do not have time to down through the list of theories and say where I got them from. I have come up with a few of my own, but even with those, I guess someone else thought of them first. Also a lot of the theories here are also the result of constant brainstorming I do with my fellow sleuths.
Sun: Robert, elimination of all your recent POI’s makes sense except for one. Multiple commenters in this new continue to refer to MP/CP. That was also the one avenue I was surprised to see you now rule out. Was there something definitive that resulted in your shift in thinking? What was it?
The names of MP and CP have been commonly bandied about among both locals and non-locals as possible suspects in the Delphi Murders. After much consideration, I am making this post to state my opinion that both of these men are innocent of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.
The purpose of this post is to announce my clearing of both MP and CP as POI’s. I will share photos that can reveal these men’s identities, but as I am acquitting them, I don’t see why this is a problem. This whole post is about what I feel is their innocence, so I do not see what the fuss would be.
MP and CP are both cleared at least in my mind. Obviously I cannot clear anyone, but I can clear some suspects in my own mind anyway and that is all that this post is about.
Yes, both CP and MP have rock solid alibis for the period of the crime. CP was at work at Subaru, and MP was at work at his business. Both CP and MP appeared on the scene at 5:30 PM as part of the initial search and searched for at least four hours until 9:30 PM. Family and friends came back at 12 PM and searched until 2:30 AM. I assume that CP and MP were part of this second group. So CP and MP are accounted for at the time of the crime.
If the girls were being held in the barn as I believe, MP and CP would have had to come back probably at 2:30 PM to participate in the goings on at the barn. That seems most unlikely to me, as this seems to be about the time the boys in the barn were finishing up business. The girls were probably dumped between 2:30 AM and 7:30 AM. If CP and MP were missing from their homes at this time, we would have heard about it. One may inquire of Becky P regarding MP’s whereabouts at that time. I am sure she will tell you he was at home.
Of all of the people wounded in the fallout from this crime, Becky Patty seems to have been injured worst of all. I have heard that Becky goes in for her appointments in town and refuses to talk. She won’t say a word. She just sits there and sobs the whole time. She’s taking this harder than anyone. You have to prioritize your grief and rage or your marriage. I am quite certain that Becky Patty values her grief far more than her marriage. If she thought for one second that MP was involved, she would have turned him in in a NY minute. The fact that she has not speaks volumes to me.
Also I have heard testimonies from people who know MP that he is a solid stand-up guy. I have reason to believe he is not perfect, especially in terms of his relationship to Libby. However, this looks more like a case of over-parenting than anything else. People who know MP are dumbfounded that he could be involved and insist that he just doesn’t have it in him.
Looking at his history, MP seems to be a stand-up guy, particularly in terms of the seedy hillbilly underbelly of Delphi you glimpse when you rip that fake Mayberry hardcore Christian conservative facade off. Delphi is Tobacco Road a century in the future. All is not as it seems in this seemingly idyllic all-American town.
In terms of that backdrop, MP seems to be one of the finest men in town. He runs his own business and makes a good living at it. It would be hard to see him jeopardize that. He has taken in a number of kids as adoptees. It looks like 3-4 at last count. The rumor that he is a Satanist is probably not true. Instead, he seems to be a devoutly religious Christian. He took in CP as an adopted child also, so CP is not his real son. He also took in Libby. He’s more of a long-suffering man in the true Christian spirit of Dostoevsky and You Know Who who sacrifices for others with little complaint.
The Case Against MP
Police said they were looking for someone wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe. I have two photos of MP wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe.
MP’s black and white shoes from a distance.
MP’s lower right arm was badly scratched up right after the crime.
Scratches on MP’s arm seen soon after the crime. Although I regard this man as innocent, I still have no explanation for these marks.
MP wore a watch on his left wrist. Soon after the crime, the watch was still there, but the clock face seemed to have been ripped off the watch and all that was left was a partial watchband in the form of a bracelet.
Also his seeming lack of emotional response to his granddaughter being murdered is puzzling. A few months after the time, MP was thought to have an air of relief about him.
MP bears a very strong resemblance to Bridge Guy when photos are compared.
Side by side comparisons of BG and MP show a remarkable resemblance.
MP had a strained relationship with Libby. She had run away from home many times, which was in part behind the muted response to her being missing. No one knows why she kept running away. Libby complained the MP stalked her. She also was known to hide when he came to see her. Some have suggested that this may mean that MP was having sex with his daughter.
MP had a strained relationship with Libby’s birth mother. MP was also said to be exasperated by the task of raising Libby.
MP is Liberty’s guardian, her own grandfather. His son CP may have been having sex with Libby according to statements he made on Facebook.
Statement by CP suggesting sex with an underage girl, possibly Libby.
Son is 28 years old. In the US, that man is a child molester and will go down on that charge and be registered sex offender for the rest of his life. CP may also have been having sex with Libby’s sister, now 16, starting when she was 13. He would have been an adult when possibly doing that too, and it was also illegal.
Kelsi’s story. I think there is a longer version on the Net. A couple of local women told me that they thought the older man Kelsi was having sex with was CP.
According to this theory, Libby may have been killed to prevent a possible pregnancy or to keep her from going to authorities about the statutory rape.
The Case Against CP
CP and MP are both rumored to be involved in child pornography.
CP already has ~4 DUI’s at the young age of 28. Surely he has been in jail before. The DUI’s are at ~2 year intervals dating back to when he was ~20 years old. CP is a charming Alpha male player type with a bad boy air about him.
CP has some quite unsavory friends, including one in Lafayette who was arrested on 2-15 for possession of methamphetamine, sale of methamphetamine and having a sexual relationship with a 16 year old girl whom he also photographed. Photos were found on his phone.
Secondary Motive for MP
Secondary motive may be Satanism/occult. There is an occult circle in Carroll County that has been there for decades and holds regular outdoor meetings and ceremonies. Both MS and MP are rumored to be practicing Satanists and members of this occult circle. Probably not a primary motive, but they may have thought if they were going to kill them anyway, they might as well make it into a Satanic sacrifice.
Killed on the 13th: bad luck day, occult significance
32: add up numbers in kill date and get 32. 32 has occult significance, Day of Sacrifice
Abigail Williams: Abigail Williams, accuser in Salem witch trials, sent a number of women to their deaths who were accused of being witches. Satanists consider her an eternal enemy who sent many persons who they call witches to their deaths. They also say she was a traitor and a former witch herself. Now Abigail Williams lives as a 13 yr old girl in Indiana, and they get to kill their age old enemy, Abigail Williams.
Primary motive: The S’s motives are presently unknown. MP may killed Libby to protect CP from possible charges of statutory rape from Libby which would have sent him to prison for child molestation and put him on the Registered Sex Offender list for rest of life.
Ron Logan: Remember Oswald, “I’m just a patsy!”
Ivan Brumbaugh: Innocent, guilty of contaminating a crime scene.
Rejoinders to the charges against MP and CP:
Police said they were looking for someone wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe. I have two photos of MP wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe: MP’s shoes are actually not tennis shoes, but instead are high-top sneakers. I do not believe we are talking about the same shoes here.
MP’s black shoes with white stripe from a distance.
MP’s lower right arm was badly scratched up right after the crime. Suggestion is his lower arm got torn up by a violent victim he was fighting with: People who know MP state that his arm has been this way for a long time as a result of weathering and a lifetime of hard work. They say these scars did not appear overnight but have been there for some time. In lieu of any evidence for the other theory, this seems to be the best explanation for these wounds.
So called broken watch was actually a memorial bracelet from a charity bike ride on 2-15.
MP wore a watch on his left wrist. Soon after the crime, the watch was still there, but the clock face seemed to have been ripped off the watch and all that was left was a partial watchband in the form of a bracelet. Suggestion is that the watch face was torn off by a victim he was tussling violently with: This is a matter of misidentification. MP apparently removed his watch after the crime. He acquired a memorial bracelet at the charity bike ride after the deaths. It is this bracelet that can be seen on his wrist, not a broken watch.
This is the photograph where MP was said to have scratches on one arm and a broken watch on the other. See rejoinders above.
His seeming lack of emotional response to his granddaughter being murdered is puzzling: Many people are suspicious of MP’s behavior after the crime. However, given his solid alibis, I simply feel that people handle emotions in different ways. I have been accused of being a bit of a Doctor Spock myself, but I do have emotions, I assure you. I feel this is simply MP’s individual way of processing this trauma.
A few months after the time, MP was thought to have an air of relief about him. This suggests that he may have been relieved that his role in the crime was not found out: Given his solid alibi, I feel sure he was not involved. Perhaps the sense of relief is in the sense that his own trauma is fading as the events are starting to fade into memory and he is getting back to the business of living. Grieving is a sign of compassion and humanity, but life is for the living. Spinoza said as much. Regardless of your trauma, life must go on. The girls are gone no matter how MP processes this crime. He can be a broken man forever or he can move on, and the girls are not coming back either way. So there is no practical reason to ruin your own life over the death of another. You are just creating one more victim.
Striking resemblance of MP and the Bridge Guy.
MP bears a very strong resemblance to Bridge Guy when photos are compared: The photos of MP and Bridge Guy do show a remarkable resemblance. In fact, a fellow sleuth is so convinced by this analysis that he is certain that MP killed those girls. The problem here would only be known by those of us who have seen many such comparisons. The photo of BG is very poor. It seems half of Delphi and many men in the surrounding area and even up to 350 miles away show a striking resemblance to BG.
This is also not the first photo comparison I have seen showing a remarkable resemblance to a POI and Bridge Guy. I have seen at least three others where you would swear that man had to be BG. Obviously all three of these men cannot be BG. Saying someone looks like BG is of limited utility as so many fit the bill. Even photo lineups showing striking resemblances are not impressive as MP’s is the fourth one I have seen so far. Photos of men looking like BG and even comparisons like the above showing remarkable resemblances with BG are of limited utility.
Further, MP appears to have a rock solid alibi that he was at work at the time of the abduction when this photograph of BG was taken. Unless MP can be in two places at once somehow, he cannot possibly be BG, striking resemblances be damned.
In addition, MP seems much heavier than BG whose weight was estimated by an expert at 180 pounds. In addition, he does not seem to be a tall man. I do not know MP’s height, but I question whether is even 5’10, which is BG’s height. His height and weight would seem to rule out his being BG.
MP had a strained relationship with Libby. She had run away from home many times, which was in part behind the muted response to her being missing. No one knows why she kept running away. Libby complained the MP stalked her. She also was known to hide when he came to see her. Some have suggested that this may mean that MP was having sex with his daughter: MP and Libby had a difficult relationship, and she seemed frightened of him and accused him of stalking her. She hid from him when he came. This would seem to imply that not all was kosher with Dad and daughter in this household.
However, I think this is more a sign of over-parenting. Knowing his deeply religious background, MP may have been a strict stepfather. The stalking may have been him trying to keep tabs on a rebellious daughter. She may have been hiding from him if he was a strict disciplinarian. There is no evidence for what boils down to WAG’s that MP was having sex with his daughter, and it seems quite out of character for MP.
MP had a strained relationship with Libby’s birth mother. MP was also said to be exasperated by the task of raising Libby. Implication here is that by killing Libby, MP was ridding himself of an exasperating problem. I must say that killing Libby would make MP’s life orders of magnitude worse, assuming he was caught, than the trying task of raising Libby. MP also seems to be a true Christian long-suffering for good and the good of others sort. Dostoevsky says “the Christian must fail.” This means that in a world ruled by evil, the only way to win and get ahead is to be bad. Trying to be good is futile and will only end in poverty and failure. Although MP is not poor, his life is in line with this thinking that in an evil world, men dedicated to the good are bound to suffer. This is probably part of his religious faith and he accepts it as such.
Possible Satanism/occult motive to the crime. Secondary motive may be Satanism/occult. There is an occult circle in Carroll County that has been there for decades and holds regular outdoor meetings and ceremonies. Both MS and MP are rumored to be practicing Satanists and members of this occult circle. Probably not a primary motive, but they may have thought if they were going to kill them anyway, they might as well make it into a Satanic sacrifice: For the life of me, I cannot see MP as a Satanism or even being involved in the occult in any way. I am just not buying it. He would have to live an extreme double life as both a deeply religious Christian and a Satanist. Just forget it.
Rejoinders to the Case Against CP
Facebook post with CP stating he had sex with an underage girl. People who saw this said he was confessing to having sex with Libby.
MP is Liberty’s guardian, her own grandfather, His son CP may have been having sex with Libby. Son is 28 years old. In the US, that man is a child molester and will go down on that charge and be registered sex offender for the rest of his life. CP may also have been having sex with Libby’s sister, now 16, starting when she was 13. He was an adult when possibly doing that too, and it was also illegal. Libby may have been killed to prevent a possible pregnancy or to keep her from going to authorities about the statutory rape: A recent theory, the best theory so far, is that Abbie was pregnant, and the crime was a botched abortion. It sounds bizarre, but it makes more sense than anything prior.
Perhaps CP had sex with Libby. This may be suggested from Facebook posts where he admits to having had sex with a 14 year old girl. Bizarrely, this post was made on 2-14, the day the girls bodies were discovered. CP’s friends say he was just joking around and suggest that these are just lyrics to a song, possibly a rap song. CP is either not very smart or he has very poor taste to be making such statements after two young teenage girls were raped and murdered. Hence perhaps he and his father were worried about a possible sex charge and resulting RSO status for life. There may also have been a worry that Libby was pregnant.
The fact that CP and MP both have rock solid alibis for the crime period would seem to render this motive moot. Further, it is not even 100% certain that CP had sex with Libby, or if he did, if she was going to turn him in. Libby was almost surely not pregnant. If she was not pregnant, why would anyone worry that she was? This was always an interesting motive, but it has bit the dust with the excellent alibis of CP and MP.
Two local women told me that CP had sex with Libby and also was suspected to be the older man who Libby’s sister Kelsi wrote about having a long-term sexual affair with. CP’s friends deny that he has committed statutory rape, but there are a number of people in and around Delphi who state the opposite. At any rate, one of the possible victims is dead now, and dead girls can’t testify. The other girl is now older but was known for refusing to finger the man she was having sex with because she loved him. So CP seems in the clear even if the accusations are true, and we have no proof that they are. We only have rumors. At any rate, this case is about the rapes and murders of two young teenage girls. Statutory rape is another matter altogether and is frankly beyond the scope of this post and for that matter this amateur investigation we have going on here.
In addition, it is not even certain that CP had sex with any underage teenage girls ever, as his friends claim that his confession is just a joke.
I will say that CP does not seem have very good judgement and is no stranger to breaking the law. He’s clearly spent months in jail, and his driver’s license is probably suspended for quite some time. He’s hardly an upstanding fellow, but I do not believe he is a murderer.
A photo that some think shows a close relationship between Libby and CP. However, they were also cousins, though not related by blood. Cousins can be quite close.
CP and MP are both rumored to be involved in child pornography: This is quite a stunning charge, and no evidence has been provided for it. CP may like to have sex with underage girls and men who do so, often photograph their activities. So we are not talking about the real deal child pornography but instead media involving naked teenage girls or sex with teenage girls. If you have ever seen a photo of a naked teenage girl (there are many quite legal nudist photos on the Net if you wish to peek), it looks exactly like a naked woman. Any normal man would be aroused by such a thing, so it’s not abnormal to find this arousing.
Although CP may have taken such photos at such time, I very much doubt if MP did unless he led some double life. Perhaps MP had a double life, but I doubt it. Also MP does not seem to be a sexually obsessed fellow. He may well enjoy sex, but I don’t think he is into sex to the point where it becomes an obsession and a problem, sometimes with criminal overtones. I’m just not buying this.
CP has some quite unsavory friends, including one in Lafayette who was arrested on 2-15 for possession of methamphetamine, sale of methamphetamine and having a sexual relationship with a 16 year old girl whom he also photographed. Photos were found on his phone: Clearly CP is not an angel by any means. But having bad friends and being a rapist-murderer are two different things. Fortunately, we are not allowed to be charged with having criminal friends, or quite a few of us would be imprisoned.
CP already has ~4 DUI’s at the young age of 28. Surely he has been in jail before. The DUI’s are at ~2 year intervals dating back to when he was ~20 years old: CP has worse problems with alcohol and driving as Ron Logan, and Ron is 50 years CP’s senior. CP is not getting off to a very good start in life. But being a drunk driver and being a rapist-murderer are two very different things, as the persecution of Ron Logan showed us.
CP is a charming Alpha male player type with a bad boy air about him: Many men are like this. Rakes are not the finest of men, and they are no doubt quite happy with that status. Even aging roues like me are not so exemplary. There’s a difference between being a bad boy and a bad man. Lots of us are bad boys. I still get called that, and I am almost 60. It may well be terminal in my case. Bad boys are mostly just rebels who live up to the Alpha male stereotype. Women love bad boys, much to their detriment, but their lust for scary men is part of what drives so many men to play the role. If we men are to be rewarded for acting like callous sociopaths, a lot of us will play that role, if only to get laid. Sorry ladies, this is just how men are. If you don’t like it, there’s always the YWCA.
The man who did this crime is surely a bad boy, but he is also something much worse – is a bad man. CP is quite a bad boy, but I doubt if he is a real bad man of the type that would do such a crime.
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