Category Archives: Girls

My Latest Theory on the Delphi Murders with a New Unsub Profile, in Q and A Format

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 1:

I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources. How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. 

Also when I say I am 100% sure of something, that means that I am 100% sure of it in my own mind. All of us are 100% sure of all sorts of things we cannot prove. That’s the nature of the human condition. We simply assume many things are facts until proven otherwise. Now many of these things that I was completely certain of were later proven to be wrong. Such is the case with many other things people become certain of in their own mind. Once again, when I say I am sure or certain or 100% certain, it means only that I am sure in my own mind. I am not stating that any of these things are facts. They are simply my convictions. Any of all of these firmly held beliefs of mine about this case could possibly will later prove to be false.

The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 2:

I thought I made this one thing perfectly clear as Richard Nixon used to say:

I have no sources whatsoever among the families of the girls.

I have no sources whatsoever in LE, local or otherwise. 

There ya go.

What I do have is sources close to the families. These people generally live in Delphi and the surrounding region. So that makes my rumors even more hearsay. I’m not even talking to the families. I am talking to people who talk to the families!

Of course I have no LE sources. I thought I made that clear. Never have. Yes, I have talked to some of them, but of course they didn’t tell me a thing. A couple of times they told me that a certain person was a POI or that a certain person had been cleared with an airtight alibi. I suppose they don’t mind giving out that information. But other than that, they don’t tell me jack. It’s hard enough to even get them to call you back. I think if I asked them if my name was Robert Lindsay, they would say, “I am sorry, but I cannot comment on matters relating to an ongoing investigation.” That’s how bad it is.

So what do I have? Once again, I have sources who are close to LE. They get their information from LE, then they talk to me. So once again this is even more hearsay, as I am not even talking to LE but to the people who are talking to LE.

I really wish people would quit claiming I have LE or family sources. I just don’t. If you think I have these sources, just quit reading my stuff right now and go away. You will not be missed!

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 3: The lies never end. The latest is “Lindsay takes other people’s theories and claims they are his own.” Of course I don’t. This website is nothing but a compendium of rumors from all over the Net regarding this crime. I go through the rumors and try to rank them on a scale of weak to strong. I compare them against other rumors to see which one is better. All sorts of theories have been flying around since day one. I report those too.

The theories are really just more rumors. I’d say the vast majority of the rumor theories reported here were thought up by other people. I find most of my theories on other sites about this crime. That’s how it works, you know. You get theories about the crime from others. Yes, you use your own theories and you use other people’s theories. I really do not have time to down through the list of theories and say where I got them from. I have come up with a few of my own, but even with those, I guess someone else thought of them first. Also a lot of the theories here are also the result of constant brainstorming I do with my fellow sleuths.

This will be done in a Q and A format.

Profile is of the Unsub who murdered of Abigail Williams and Liberty German of 2-13-17 and 2-14-17.

Q: Are the Evansdale crimes and the Delphi Murders connected?

A: I do not believe so. Two separate perps, but there are some similarities. Both were done by sociopathic men aged 50-60. Girls were removed to a vehicle in both cases. In both cases, girls were taken to a structure where they were kept for a period of at least 12 hours, raped, tortured and killed. In both cases, girls were returned and dumped to an area near water. In both cases, bodies were covered with leaves. Both killers were divorced men with at least two children. Both men blend in very well in the community, and few if any suspect them. The other similarities have been gone over.

Q: Was the killer from Delphi or the surrounding area? Was he from Indiana?

A: No. No.

Q: Was the killer from another state?

A: Yes.

Q: Did the killer commute to commit the crime and then commute back home?

A: Yes.

Q: If the killer does not reside in the area, how do they know the area of the crime so well?

A: The killer is a former resident who lived in the area for many years and now lives in another state. However, he grew up in and around the town.

Q: Does the killer know Ron Logan, the Mears, their neighbors, and the area of the bridge and creek?

A: He knows the people, properties and neighbors like the back of his hand from growing up in the area.

Q: Does he have a criminal record?

A: Yes, long record of mostly minor crimes with some jail stints.

Q: Has he been to prison?

A: At least once, for unknown period of time, on a relatively minor charge.

Q: In what state did he acquire his criminal record, jail and prison stints?

A: Indiana.

Q: Is he employed?

A: Probably not, may collect some sort of a government check just as Disability.

Q: What was his former occupation?

A: Much of it is unknown, but one position was in industrial agriculture.

Q: What is his opinion of the police?

A: Very low, thinks they have it in for him due to long minor record.

Q: Is he an outdoorsman such as a fisherman, hunter, hiker, naturalist, etc.?

A: Absolutely, loves the outdoors.

Q: Does he engage in the pursuit of land and water game such as fish and game animals?

A: Absolutely, avid outdoorsman.

Q: What is the fanny pack?

A: Outdoorsman’s pack. Either a deer kit with scissors, knives, etc. for cutting up game or a fisherman’s pack with fishing line, knives, etc.

Q: What is the significance of the pack to the crime?

A: Knives, scissors, fishing line, etc. possibly used in the crime. Outdoors knives, either hunting or fishing, were surely used.

Q: What was the purpose of the knives?

A: Sadly, to cut up the girls, which sadly I believe was done.

Q: Can you elaborate?

A: Not sure, but reports of mutilation of the girls probably involved the use of the knives.

Q: What do we hear after the “down the hill” audio?

A: The next thing you hear at some point later is the girls screaming.

Q: Where does that take place?

A: No doubt at the bottom of the hill.

Q: What happened down there?

A: He got them down the bottom of the hill where a vehicle was waiting. At that point, I believe he struck them in the head or face with the gun. A bit of that, and they were stunned enough to where he and a probable accomplice tied and gagged them and then put them in the vehicle.

Q: Where in the vehicle?

A: Probably the trunk.

Q: How many vehicles were used in the crime?

A: Two.

Q: Where were they located?

A: One at the north end, which is what Bridge Guy used to approach the bridge from the north side and a second vehicle at the bottom of the hill on the south side.

Q: With two vehicles, there must have been at least two men, right?

A: I do not see how it could have been done otherwise.

Q: Description of car on north side of bridge used by Bridge Guy to approach bridge from north side?

A: Late model white Dodge Dart with paper plates.

Q: Determined how?

A: Female witness.

Q: Confidence level in car description?

A: Very high at the moment.

Q: Why?

A: Statements of individual(s).

 

Q: Who were the two men?

A: I have an idea of who the man on the bridge is, but I know nothing about any accomplice.

Q: How do we know the handgun was used to strike the girls and knock them half out?

A: The FBI was swabbing the gun barrels of residents who lived in the area.

Q: Why?  

A: Looking for the girls’ DNA on the barrels. Conclusion: Gun was used to hit the girls.

Q: Is the killer left or right-handed?

A: The man on the bridge is absolutely left-handed. That is certain.

Q: How do we know?

A: He has the gun strapped to his chest via a holster on the right side pointing upwards. Such a setup would only be used by a left-handed man.

Q: How do we know he had a handgun?

A: You can see it outlined in the Bridge Guy photo.

Q: How old is Bridge Guy?

A: 50-60 years old.

Q: Does he walk with a limp?

A: I think so.

Q: Why?

A: Looks like an arthritic or injured knee.

Q: Does he have mobility issues?

A: For a man his age, no. He is very active.

Q: How tall is Bridge Guy?

A: 5’8-5’10

Q: How much does he weigh?

A: ~170-180 pounds.

Q: Has he always had a paunch?

A: No, he has been in great shape his whole life. The paunch is a recent middle-aged development.

Q: Is he a pedophile?

A: No.

Q: Is he a hebephile?

A: Doubt it.

Q: What is his Age of Attraction?

A: Probably normal, maximum attraction to mature females age 16+ like any normal man.

Q: What is his sexual orientation?

A: Heterosexual.

Q: Is he masculine, feminine, in between?

A: Typical very masculine man from the area. A bit of a badass, tough guy. Uses foul language and has a rough way of speaking.

Q: Psychiatric diagnosis?

A: Apparently sociopath, in my opinion.

Q: General vibe?

A: Looks normal to others, but I know sociopaths, so he appears rather sneaky, devious, “unreadable”, slick, bad boy, naughty, playful, outlaw, gleam in his eye, and rebellious. Appears to be hiding something or keeping some sort of a secret. General feeling of what you see is not what you get.

Q: Can he seem warm, friendly, etc?

A: Very much so. Chameleon. Very hard to figure out. Actor who sees life as a series of roles.

Q: Life theme?

A: You can’t win, they’ve got it in for me, life is a game, I’m fooling them ha ha, also redemption from previous failed life.

Q: Redemption meaning what?

A: He thinks he has turned his life around from a lifetime of mistakes and is now on the right track finally. However, his desires got the best of him.

Q: Verbal style?

A: Versatile, can seem sentimental, poetic and moving. Fools you into thinking he is a person who cares deeply about life’s small and kind wonders.

Q: Feeling towards his own children?

A: Loves them, strangely enough.

Q: Married or divorced?

A: Was married, hence the kids, now divorced.

Q: Easy or messy divorce?

A: Very messy, and I do mean messy. Same with the Evansdale killer.

Q: Child custody issues?

A: Major issues in this area, same as Evansdale killer.

Q: Altercations with ex-wife?

A: Yes, same as Evansdale killer.

Q: Relations with ex-wife?

A: Hostile, same as Evansdale killer.

Q: Ex-wife fears him?

A: Unknown, maybe.

Q: Any special preoccupation with young teenage girls?

A: Unknown, possible but probably not. Sees teenage girls and grown women as versions of a mature female. Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed, etc.

Q: Rage towards females?

A: Seems apparent with the crime but is otherwise not obvious in his life.

Q: Motivation?

A: Same as Evansdale killer. Sociopath / sexual sadist / rape-murder / serial type.

Q: Serial killer?

A: Serial type, but unknown if he has other victims.

Q: Were these his first killings?

A: Unknown, no known other killings. Quite possibly first killings, as hard as that is to believe.

Q: Commuted how far to commit crime and return home?

A: 100-200 miles.

Q: Travel time commuting to commit crime and return?

A: 3 hours.

Q: Resides in which state?

A: An unknown state neighboring Indiana.

Q: Gang ties?

A: Possible from prison. Possible Aryan Brotherhood.

Q: Determined how?

A: Can’t say right now. Has to do with his hands.

Q: Tattoos?

A: One large one on front torso.

Q: In his 50’s, how did he negotiate that scary bridge?

A: Grew up in the area. Bridge area is like his backyard. Has probably traversed it many times. Also very fit from active life despite bad knee.

Q: Physical condition?

A: Excellent for age due to active outdoors life.

Q: Capable of fooling people?

A: Very much so. Academy award actor. Life is a series of roles.

Q: Friends suspect him of bad things?

A: No. Has a circle of warm friends, tough, hard outdoors, badass men of about the same age who think he is completely on the up and up. He’s fooling them all. Chameleon.

Q: Sexual peculiarities noticeable to wives or girlfriends?

A: Unknown, may have hidden his sexual sadism.

Q: Why?

A: Sneaky, devious, underhanded, conspiring and plotting fellow. Most actions are well plotted and planned. Little spontaneity other than rages.

Q: Violent temper?

A: Regularly and very much so, generally verbal, sometimes threats.

Q: Displays hostility to women?

A: Sometimes verbally, but typical for tough guy, hard man, roughneck, ex-con working class outdoors redneck type.

Q: Jokes about rape or threats of rape towards women?

A: Sometimes, veiled, but common for his type.

Q: Racist? White Supremacist?

A: No. Brotherhood ties but rarely if ever makes racial remarks. Probably joined Brotherhood for self-protection in prison. Often comes across as anti-racist, even a coastal liberal variety.

Q: Politics?

A: Quite liberal. Sort of an aging hippie type, unusual for Indiana.

Q: Drug user?

A: Marijuana, yes. Enjoys it a lot.

Q: Drinker?

A: Former very serious problem, present status unknown. May be sober now.

Q: Smoker?

A: Yes, smokes cigarettes.

Q: Smoked during crime?

A: I believe so.

Q: How do we know?

A: Cigarette found at scene. Possibly his.

Q: Can comments, remarks and speech be trusted?

A: Absolutely not. Pathological liar. Truth is mixed in with lies and fabrications to the point where he believes his own lies and even gets caught in them.

Q: Reaction if caught in a lie?

A: Temper, rage, ranting, veiled threats via angry language.

Q: Appears normal, even like a nice guy or regular guy?

A: Very much so.

Q: Good friend?

A: Can play the role very well. Charming and disarming. The more you get to know him, the more harmless you think he is.

Q: Takes responsibility for actions?

A: No, blames others for everything. When at fault, blames others. Attacks others and then claims to be acting in self-defense.

Q: Behavior in court?

A: Shameless pathological defensive lying, blaming others.

Q: Other defenses?

A: Excellent at distracting people and directing attention away from what is important. Red herrings, irrelevancies, redirects, minor details, fussing, wrong turns, wrong directions.

Q: Conversational defense?

A: Denial, rage, rants, especially redirection.

Q: Liberty’s phone recovered by police?

A: I do not think so.

Q: Video and audio how?

A: From cloud.

Q: Disposition of phone?

A: Killer found it on Libby, possibly resulting in fatal rage attack and double garroting that nearly decapitated her.

Q: Disposition of phone?

A: Retained by killer, destroyed and disposed of.

Q: Location of phone?

A: Never left Delphi. Disposed in Delphi.

Q: Found by LE?

A: Extremely doubtful.

Q: Recoverable by LE?

A: Quite probably.

Q: Location of phone?

A: Very close to crime scene, but buried deep.

Q: How deep?

A: 10-20 feet plus.

Q: Recovery feasibility?

A: Difficult but quite possible with sufficient resources.

Q: Data available on phone?

A: All data destroyed.

Q: Condition of phone?

A: Destroyed, unusable but possibly intact. It’s buried deep. That is the problem.

Q: Killer’s prints or DNA on phone?

A: No way, not possible.

Q: Recovery of phone would assist case?

A: Possibly dramatically.

Q: How was knowledge of phone story obtained?

A: No comment.

Q: Theory reported to LE?

A: Absolutely.

Q: Girls’ bodies posed in odd manner?

A: Apparently.

Q: Why?

A: Posing had occult or Satanic overtones.

Q: Was this an occult or Satanic crime?

A: Unknown, but if it was not, it may have been made to look like one. Killer specializes in wrong way streets, red herrings, misdirection and redirection.

Q: Satanic or occult theory status?

A: Weak.

Q: Why?

A: Killer has no known occult or Satanic interests. He may have such, but it is not obvious, and if he does, he hides it well, as he does with so many things.

Q: Killer IQ?

A: Average.

Q: Street smarts, etc.?

A: Killer is smart like a fox. In terms of sheer animal, devious and utterly cunning smarts, he is brilliant, has a genius IQ in this type of intelligence.

Q: Education level?

A: Low.

Q: Killer is storyteller, raconteur?

A: Very much so.

Q: Entertaining in this role?

A: Turns off some, but extremely entertaining to others.

Q: Philosophical outlook?

A: Cynical, humans are lousy animals driven by low, base interests, corrupt at their core.

Q: Killer’s attitude towards this?

A: Acts offended. Plays role of offended good citizen outraged by sleazy corruption.

Q: LE communicated with killer during course of investigation so far?

A: Absolutely and documented.

Q: LE suspicious of killer as a result of conversations between LE and killer?

A:  Very dubious, he fooled them too. He fools so many people. He is an expert at fooling people.

Q: LE has DNA from crime?

A: Unknown, maybe.

Q: Status of DNA, if so?

A: No match in databases.

Q: Killer’s DNA is in databases?

A: Doubt it. Otherwise there would be a match.

Q: Kill method of both girls?

A: Garroting, probably double garroting.

Q: Garroting material used?

A: I have a good guess, but I will not say. Not a typical garroting item but would work very well.

Q: Baling wire from Mears barn used to garrot?

A: I do not think so, though it was available.

Q: Why garroting?

A: Kill method apparently intended from the start. Carried garroting supplies.

Q: Intended to only rape, hurt, frighten girls and leave?

A: No.

Q: Killed because scene got out of hand and panicked?

A: No, murder intended from the start.

Q: Why did girls’ throats seem cut?

A: Garroting strangles you and cuts your throat.

Q: Difference between garroting and knife cut of neck?

A: Knife cuts from the front and can decapitate. Garroting cuts all the way around but seldom decapitates because garroting material is not as sharp as a knife to cut through back of neck.

Q: Condition of girls’ fingernails?

A: Blood and dirt under Liberty’s nails. Dirt under Abbie’s nails. Abbie’s nails badly torn up.

Q: Certainty of garroting used?

A: Extremely high, confirmed by several sources close to family.

Q: Unwanted pregnancy, botched abortion theory of motive?

A: This was a great theory, the only one so far that even made since with good evidence to back it up via autopsy findings and method of attack, but the theory seems dead. This was not the motive for the killings.

Q: Abbie found with stake in her?

A: Appears so, very strong likelihood.

Q: Why?

A: Killer apparently discovered she was pregnant, girl was staked to kill the fetus. Best theory.

Q: How did he find or theorize she was pregnant?

A: Unknown.

Q: Abbie found pregnant on autopsy?

A: Strong rumor but highly disputed and white-hot controversial.

Q: Abbie proven to be pregnant?

A: Not at all, but likely was.

Q: Why likely?

A: Abbie family member strongly implied she was pregnant and the killing involved an attempt to kill a fetus.

Q: Bridge Guy seen in Abbie photo on bridge?

A: Yes hiding behind a tree.

Q: Photo exists?

A: Yes, will be posted, man outlined with software.

Q: Confidence that this is the Bridge Guy?

A: Very high, color of clothing on man behind tree is perfect match for color of clothing of man on bridge.

Q: Condition of girls’ bodies?

A: Abbie nude, Liberty topless.

Q: Girls clothes where?

A: In the creek to destroy DNA.

Q: Girls suffered?

A: Very much so, Abbie most of all. Liberty’s nightmare may have been mercifully shortened.

Q: Abbie alive when dumped?

A: Absolutely.

Q: Time of death?

A: 9 AM 2-14, 30 minutes before search started. So sad.

Q: Certainty of time of death?

A: High.

Q: Abbie lingered after dumped?

A: Yes, 1.5-6.5 hours

Q: Why?

A: Who knows? She did not lose much blood for some reason.

Q: Abbie cause of death?

A: Exposure.

Q: Crime scene contaminated?

A: Dubious.

Q: Searcher touched bodies on discovery?

A: Highly dubious.

Q: Who found bodies?

A: Man and wife and another man.

Q: How known?

A: Documented from screenshot conversations with searchers who found the body.

Q: Screenshot available?

A: Yes, to be posted.

Q: Liberty’s family involved in crime?

A: I say no.

Q: S and H families involved in crime?

A: I say no.

Q: Ron Logan involved?

A: This is one of the stupidest episodes of this entire affair. Not as tragic as the girls, but nevertheless a tragedy. Punishments should fit crimes. Logan is a drunk and probation violator. He’s not killer. The whole idea is insane.

Q: Sexual activity by the girls involved?

A: Both girls may well have been sexually active. One certainly was. But this had nothing to do with a motive for the crime as was thought earlier. It may have been the impetus for an attack on Abbie though.

Q: If attempt to kill fetus theory correct, what motive?

A: Previous motive is trashed because suspects are all cleared. Motive then would be simple cruelty. Killer somehow found she was pregnant and tried to kill fetus as part of general sexually sadistic crime.

Q: Killer’s attitude towards investigation?

A: Nervous, fearful of being caught but also sees the whole thing as a laughable game of cat and mouse. He’s getting a real kick out of it. This is just good times to him. He’s fooling them and hiding right under their noses, ha ha.

Q: LE stated killer may have given false tips. Accurate?

A: Could well be.

Q: Killer involved in the investigation?

A: Quite possibly.

Q: Why?

A: Can’t help himself. Loves the limelight, publicity hound, likes the idea that he is hiding right under their noses and getting away with it, this is hilarious.

Q: Significance of 13th for day of attack, day of bad luck of occult significance?

A: Unknown if any. May be random.

Q: Significance of Valentines Day for body dump day?

A: Unknown, may be random.

Q: Significance of dates adding up to 32, an occult number?

A: Unknown, may be random.

Q: Significance of Evansdale and Delphi dates being exact mirror images of each other?

A: Fascinating, but may be random.

Q: Possible occult significance of killing Abbie Williams, namesake of Salem Witch trials accuser?

A: Unknown, may be random or coincidental.

Q: Time of body dump?

A: 2:30 AM – 7:30 AM

Q: How girls taken to site?

A: Left Mears barn in vehicle, drove 25 yards to cemetery , then to southwest gate of cemetery, through unlocked gate of Ron Logan’s horse pasture, 10 feet to start of trail.

Q: Girls where in car?

A: No doubt in trunk.

Q: How girls taken to dump site?

A: Via trail. Dragged down a trail.

Q: How determined?

A: Searchers followed drag trail to bodies.

Q: One man dragged two girls?

A: Very dubious, especially with Libby at 200 pounds. Excellent reason for two killer theory.

Q: Killers’ actions after body dump?

A: Rapid departure from area in darkness and then 100-200 miles to home.

Q: Where were the girls taken after they were abducted?

A: To the Mears barn.

Q: At what time?

A: Probably 3 PM or so.

Q: Were Ron Logan and the Mears home?

A: Both were gone.

Q: Did the killer know this?

A: It seems like he must have.

Q: How did he know this?

A: No idea, but I believe that the killer was extremely familiar with the area, Logan, the Mears and their neighbors, having known and lived around them for a long time when he was younger. He was nearly in his own backyard.

Q: Did the killer know the weather in the area?

A: Yes.

Q: For how long?

A: For at least one week prior, had been following Delphi weather.

Q: What happened when the car drove onto the Mears property by the barn?

A: It drove right into the barn.

Q: Can the barn fit a car?

A: Yes, and more than one, with much room to spare. The barn is massive, like a cavern.

Q: Couldn’t people see the car in the barn?

A: Although the barn is only a short ways off the road, from the road, you can barely see one foot inside the barn even in broad daylight. It is like a black hole.

Q: Couldn’t people see in the barn at night?

A: Not at all.

Q: Even if the killers had an artificial light source?

A: They still could not see in. First the entrance was blocked by the vehicle, and anyway, with a low light, the barn is such a black hole that a small light source would probably not be detected from the road. You would see only pure black darkness at the entrance to the barn-cavern.

Q: How long were the girls kept in the barn?

A: Probably from 3 PM 2-13 to 3 AM 2-14, 12 long hours.

Q: Were they alive the whole time?

A: Abbie was, sadly, but Libby was killed earlier on on 2-13.

Q: Why was Libby killed earlier?

A: I think she gave him a great big fight, and she was a handful.

Q: So what happened?

A: He flew into a rage at her resistance, grabbed his garroting material, and double garroted her.

Q: Abbie saw this?

A: As horrible as it sounds, yes. This is as bad as it gets.

Q: Why didn’t the girls make some noise?

A: Probably gagged.

Q: Is it true that Libby had 4-5 chances to escape?

A: Apparently, police say so.

Q: They know this how?

A: God knows.

Q: Why didn’t she flee?

A: The saddest part of all. She was so dedicated to her friend that she vowed to not leave her friend in this horrible state with this monster. She was going to stay with Abbie all the way through this mess. She could not leave and abandon her friend to this horror. In real life, they were inseparable.

Q: What happened in the barn?

A: Who knows? Girls were kept in there, tormented, tortured, probably cut with knives, Libby was garroted, Abbie garroted right before departure, and both girls were sexually mutilated.

Q: Sexually mutilated how?

A: God knows. But Abbie may have had a stick up her up vagina, as awful as it sounds.

Q: The killer speared Abbie in the  stomach with a sharp stick?

A: Yes, like I said, as bad as it gets.

Q: How certain are you of this?

A: Very much so.

Q: How did he spear her, horizontally or vertically?

A: He drove the stake into her stomach or abdomen. If she was pregnant, this looks like an attempt to kill the fetus. If vertically, he straddled her and stood over her and shoved it in her from above, which would be hard to do. Or horizontally, he put the stick up her vagina and into her stomach that way, as awful as it sounds.

Q: Which would cause a quicker fatality?

A: Surely vertical.

Q: What evidence do we have for horizontal or vertical?

A: Only one rumor from one source, very recently. She said horizontally.

Q: How would the two methods of spearing differ?

A: Vertically would probably be a very quick death and would actually be more merciful, but it would be hard to drive the stake in. Horizontally, poor Abbie could have lingered for some time. She would have suffered much more with a horizontal attack. It would have been horrendous.

Q: Abbie survived the killer’s attacks?

A: Unbelievably, yes. She survived the double garroting, which was poorly done, whatever else was done and even the staking.

Q: When did he stake her?

A: I am thinking after he dumped them.

Q: Why?

A: God knows. Perhaps he discovered that Abbie was still alive, went nuts and staked her to finish her off.

Q: How were girls placed?

A: They were  posed in odd positions in what one person said looked like a Satanic or occult ritual. Also they were covered with leaves, but Abbie escaped from under leaves and unbelievably even managed to crawl away some distance.

Q: What was Abbie’s cause of death?

A: Exposure.

Q: How long did Abbie survive in the forest?

A: From 1.5 to 6.5 hours, incredibly enough.

Q: Why did she survive?

A: Amazingly, she did not lose much blood.

Q: What is the killer’s attitude to getting photographed and recorded?

A: A lot of panic, but also he thinks it is a game and a big joke.

Q: How is he dealing with his photo and audio being out there?

A: Has a plan, but I can’t talk about it right now.

Q: Does the killer seem like a suspicious person?

A: Absolutely not. Total chameleon.

Q: Will he be caught?

A: I believe so.

Q: When?

A: Perhaps sooner than you think.

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

52 Comments

Filed under Crime, Girls, Law enforcement, Mental Illness, Midwest, Personality Disorders, Psychology, Psychopathology, Regional, Sociopathy, USA

Delphi Murders: My Clearing of Two of My Major POI’s

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 1:

I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources. How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. 

Also when I say I am 100% sure of something, that means that I am 100% sure of it in my own mind. All of us are 100% sure of all sorts of things we cannot prove. That’s the nature of the human condition. We simply assume many things are facts until proven otherwise. Now many of these things that I was completely certain of were later proven to be wrong. Such is the case with many other things people become certain of in their own mind. Once again, when I say I am sure or certain or 100% certain, it means only that I am sure in my own mind. I am not stating that any of these things are facts. They are simply my convictions. Any of all of these firmly held beliefs of mine about this case could possibly will later prove to be false.

The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 2:

I thought I made this one thing perfectly clear as Richard Nixon used to say:

I have no sources whatsoever among the families of the girls.

I have no sources whatsoever in LE, local or otherwise. 

There ya go.

What I do have is sources close to the families. These people generally live in Delphi and the surrounding region. So that makes my rumors even more hearsay. I’m not even talking to the families. I am talking to people who talk to the families!

Of course I have no LE sources. I thought I made that clear. Never have. Yes, I have talked to some of them, but of course they didn’t tell me a thing. A couple of times they told me that a certain person was a POI or that a certain person had been cleared with an airtight alibi. I suppose they don’t mind giving out that information. But other than that, they don’t tell me jack. It’s hard enough to even get them to call you back. I think if I asked them if my name was Robert Lindsay, they would say, “I am sorry, but I cannot comment on matters relating to an ongoing investigation.” That’s how bad it is.

So what do I have? Once again, I have sources who are close to LE. They get their information from LE, then they talk to me. So once again this is even more hearsay, as I am not even talking to LE but to the people who are talking to LE.

I really wish people would quit claiming I have LE or family sources. I just don’t. If you think I have these sources, just quit reading my stuff right now and go away. You will not be missed!

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 3: The lies never end. The latest is “Lindsay takes other people’s theories and claims they are his own.” Of course I don’t. This website is nothing but a compendium of rumors from all over the Net regarding this crime. I go through the rumors and try to rank them on a scale of weak to strong. I compare them against other rumors to see which one is better. All sorts of theories have been flying around since day one. I report those too.

The theories are really just more rumors. I’d say the vast majority of the rumor theories reported here were thought up by other people. I find most of my theories on other sites about this crime. That’s how it works, you know. You get theories about the crime from others. Yes, you use your own theories and you use other people’s theories. I really do not have time to down through the list of theories and say where I got them from. I have come up with a few of my own, but even with those, I guess someone else thought of them first. Also a lot of the theories here are also the result of constant brainstorming I do with my fellow sleuths.

Sun: Robert, elimination of all your recent POI’s makes sense except for one. Multiple commenters in this new continue to refer to MP/CP. That was also the one avenue I was surprised to see you now rule out. Was there something definitive that resulted in your shift in thinking? What was it?

The names of MP and CP have been commonly bandied about among both locals and non-locals as possible suspects in the Delphi Murders. After much consideration, I am making this post to state my opinion that both of these men are innocent of the murders of Liberty German and Abigail Williams.

The purpose of this post is to announce my clearing of both MP and CP as POI’s. I will share photos that can reveal these men’s identities, but as I am acquitting them, I don’t see why this is a problem. This whole post is about what I feel is their innocence, so I do not see what the fuss would be.

MP and CP are both cleared at least in my mind. Obviously I cannot clear anyone, but I can clear some suspects in my own mind anyway and that is all that this post is about.

Yes, both CP and MP have rock solid alibis for the period of the crime. CP was at work at Subaru, and MP was at work at his business. Both CP and MP appeared on the scene at 5:30 PM as part of the initial search and searched for at least four hours until 9:30 PM. Family and friends came back at 12 PM and searched until 2:30 AM. I assume that CP and MP were part of this second group. So CP and MP are accounted for at the time of the crime.

If the girls were being held in the barn as I believe, MP and CP would have had to come back probably at 2:30 PM to participate in the goings on at the barn. That seems most unlikely to me, as this seems to be about the time the boys in the barn were finishing up business. The girls were probably dumped between 2:30 AM and 7:30 AM. If CP and MP were missing from their homes at this time, we would have heard about it. One may inquire of Becky P regarding MP’s whereabouts at that time. I am sure she will tell you he was at home.

Of all of the people wounded in the fallout from this crime, Becky Patty seems to have been injured worst of all. I have heard that Becky goes in for her appointments in town and refuses to talk. She won’t say a word. She just sits there and sobs the whole time. She’s taking this harder than anyone. You have to prioritize your grief and rage or your marriage. I am quite certain that Becky Patty values her grief far more than her marriage. If she thought for one second that MP was involved, she would have turned him in in a NY minute. The fact that she has not speaks volumes to me.

Also I have heard testimonies from people who know MP that he is a solid stand-up guy. I have reason to believe he is not perfect, especially in terms of his relationship to Libby. However, this looks more like a case of over-parenting than anything else. People who know MP are dumbfounded that he could be involved and insist that he just doesn’t have it in him.

Looking at his history, MP seems to be a stand-up guy, particularly in terms of the seedy hillbilly underbelly of Delphi you glimpse when you rip that fake Mayberry hardcore Christian conservative facade off. Delphi is Tobacco Road a century in the future. All is not as it seems in this seemingly idyllic all-American town.

In terms of that backdrop, MP seems to be one of the finest men in town. He runs his own business and makes a good living at it. It would be hard to see him jeopardize that. He has taken in a number of kids as adoptees. It looks like 3-4 at last count. The rumor that he is a Satanist is probably not true. Instead, he seems to be a devoutly religious Christian. He took in CP as an adopted child also, so CP is not his real son. He also took in Libby. He’s more of a long-suffering man in the true Christian spirit of Dostoevsky and You Know Who who sacrifices for others with little complaint.

The Case Against MP

Police said they were looking for someone wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe. I have two photos of MP wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe.

Mike Patty black tennis shoes white stripe

MP’s black and white shoes from a distance.

MP’s lower right arm was badly scratched up right after the crime.

Scratches on Mike Pattys arm

Scratches on MP’s arm seen soon after the crime. Although I regard this man as innocent, I still have no explanation for these marks.

MP wore a watch on his left wrist. Soon after the crime, the watch was still there, but the clock  face seemed to have been ripped off the watch and all that was left was a partial watchband in the form of a bracelet.

Also his seeming lack of emotional response to his granddaughter being murdered is puzzling. A few months after the time, MP was thought to have an air of relief about him.

MP bears a very strong resemblance to Bridge Guy when photos are compared.

MP and Bridge Guy

Side by side comparisons of BG and MP show a remarkable resemblance.

MP had a strained relationship with Libby. She had run away from home many times, which was in part behind the muted response to her being missing. No one knows why she kept running away. Libby complained the MP stalked her. She also was known to hide when he came to see her. Some have suggested that this may mean that MP was having sex with his daughter.

MP had a strained relationship with Libby’s birth mother. MP was also said to be exasperated by the task of raising Libby.

MP is Liberty’s guardian, her own grandfather. His son CP may have been having sex with Libby according to statements he made on Facebook.

Cody Patty conversation about Libby

Statement by CP suggesting sex with an underage girl, possibly Libby.

Son is 28 years old. In the US, that man is a child molester and will go down on that charge and be registered sex offender for the rest of his life. CP may also have been having sex with Libby’s sister, now 16, starting when she was 13. He would have been an adult when possibly doing that too, and it was also illegal.

Kelsis story

Kelsi’s story. I think there is a longer version on the Net. A couple of local women told me that they thought the older man Kelsi was having sex with was CP.

According to this theory, Libby may have been killed to prevent a possible pregnancy or to keep her from going to authorities about the statutory rape.

The Case Against CP

CP and MP are both rumored to be involved in child pornography.

CP already has ~4 DUI’s at the young age of 28. Surely he has been in jail before. The DUI’s are at ~2 year intervals dating back to when he was ~20 years old. CP is a charming Alpha male player type with a bad boy air about him.

CP has some quite unsavory friends, including one in Lafayette who was arrested on 2-15 for possession of methamphetamine, sale of methamphetamine and having a sexual relationship with a 16 year old girl whom he also photographed. Photos were found on his phone.

Secondary Motive for MP

Secondary motive may be Satanism/occult. There is an occult circle in Carroll County that has been there for decades and holds regular outdoor meetings and ceremonies. Both MS and MP are rumored to be practicing Satanists and members of this occult circle. Probably not a primary motive, but they may have thought if they were going to kill them anyway, they might as well make it into a Satanic sacrifice.

Killed on the 13th: bad luck day, occult significance

32: add up numbers in kill date and get 32. 32 has occult significance, Day of Sacrifice

Abigail Williams: Abigail Williams, accuser in Salem witch trials, sent a number of women to their deaths who were accused of being witches. Satanists consider her an eternal enemy who sent many persons who they call witches to their deaths. They also say she was a traitor and a former witch herself. Now Abigail Williams lives as a 13 yr old girl in Indiana, and they get to kill their age old enemy, Abigail Williams.

Primary motive: The S’s motives are presently unknown. MP may killed Libby to protect CP from possible charges of statutory rape from Libby which would have sent him to prison for child molestation and put him on the Registered Sex Offender list for rest of life.

Ron Logan: Remember Oswald, “I’m just a patsy!”

Ivan Brumbaugh: Innocent, guilty of contaminating a crime scene.

Rejoinders to the charges against MP and CP:

Police said they were looking for someone wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe. I have two photos of MP wearing black tennis shoes with a white stripe: MP’s shoes are actually not tennis shoes, but instead are high-top sneakers. I do not believe we are talking about the same shoes here.

Mike Patty black tennis shoes white stripe closeup

MP’s black shoes with white stripe from a distance.

MP’s lower right arm was badly scratched up right after the crime. Suggestion is his lower arm got torn up by a violent victim he was fighting with: People who know MP state that his arm has been this way for a long time as a result of weathering and a lifetime of hard work. They say these scars did not appear overnight but have been there for some time. In lieu of any evidence for the other theory, this seems to be the best explanation for these wounds.

Mike Patty broken watch

So called broken watch was actually a memorial bracelet from a charity bike ride on 2-15.

MP wore a watch on his left wrist. Soon after the crime, the watch was still there, but the clock  face seemed to have been ripped off the watch and all that was left was a partial watchband in the form of a bracelet. Suggestion is that the watch face was torn off by a victim he was tussling violently with: This is a matter of misidentification. MP apparently removed his watch after the crime. He acquired a memorial bracelet at the charity bike ride after the deaths. It is this bracelet that can be seen on his wrist, not a broken watch.

Mike Patty

This is the photograph where MP was said to have scratches on one arm and a broken watch on the other. See rejoinders above.

His seeming lack of emotional response to his granddaughter being murdered is puzzling: Many people are suspicious of MP’s behavior after the crime. However, given his solid alibis, I simply feel that people handle emotions in different ways. I have been accused of being a bit of a Doctor Spock myself, but I do have emotions, I assure you. I feel this is simply MP’s individual way of processing this trauma.

A few months after the time, MP was thought to have an air of relief about him. This suggests that he may have been relieved that his role in the crime was not found out: Given his solid alibi, I feel sure he was not involved. Perhaps the sense of relief is in the sense that his own trauma is fading as the events are starting to fade into memory and he is getting back to the business of living. Grieving is a sign of compassion and humanity, but life is for the living. Spinoza said as much. Regardless of your trauma, life must go on. The girls are gone no matter how MP processes this crime. He can be a broken man forever or he can move on, and the girls are not coming back either way. So there is no practical reason to ruin your own life over the death of another. You are just creating one more victim.

head down comparison 20

Striking resemblance of MP and the Bridge Guy.

MP bears a very strong resemblance to Bridge Guy when photos are compared: The photos of MP and Bridge Guy do show a remarkable resemblance. In fact, a fellow sleuth is so convinced by this analysis that he is certain that MP killed those girls. The problem here would only be known by those of us who have seen many such comparisons. The photo of BG is very poor. It seems half of Delphi and many men in the surrounding area and even up to 350 miles away show a striking resemblance to BG.

This is also not the first photo comparison I have seen showing a remarkable resemblance to a POI and Bridge Guy. I have seen at least three others where you would swear that man had to be BG. Obviously all three of these men cannot be BG. Saying someone looks like BG is of limited utility as so many fit the bill. Even photo lineups showing striking resemblances are not impressive as MP’s is the fourth one I have seen so far. Photos of men looking like BG and even comparisons like the above showing remarkable resemblances with BG are of limited utility.

Further, MP appears to have a rock solid alibi that he was at work at the time of the abduction when this photograph of BG was taken. Unless MP can be in two places at once somehow, he cannot possibly be BG, striking resemblances be damned.

In addition, MP seems much heavier than BG whose weight was estimated by an expert at 180 pounds. In addition, he does not seem to be a tall man. I do not know MP’s height, but I question whether is even 5’10, which is BG’s height. His height and weight would seem to rule out his being BG.

MP had a strained relationship with Libby. She had run away from home many times, which was in part behind the muted response to her being missing. No one knows why she kept running away. Libby complained the MP stalked her. She also was known to hide when he came to see her. Some have suggested that this may mean that MP was having sex with his daughter: MP and Libby had a difficult relationship, and she seemed frightened of him and accused him of stalking her. She hid from him when he came. This would seem to imply that not all was kosher with Dad and daughter in this household.

However, I think this is more a sign of over-parenting. Knowing his deeply religious background, MP may have been a strict stepfather. The stalking may have been him trying to keep tabs on a rebellious daughter. She may have been hiding from him if he was a strict disciplinarian. There is no evidence for what boils down to WAG’s that MP was having sex with his daughter, and it seems quite out of character for MP.

MP had a strained relationship with Libby’s birth mother. MP was also said to be exasperated by the task of raising Libby. Implication here is that by killing  Libby, MP was ridding himself of an exasperating problem. I must say that killing Libby would make MP’s life orders of magnitude worse, assuming he was caught, than the trying task of raising Libby.  MP also seems to be a true Christian long-suffering for good and the good of others sort. Dostoevsky says “the Christian must fail.” This means that in a world ruled by evil, the only way to win and get ahead is to be bad. Trying to be good is futile and will only end in poverty and failure. Although MP is not poor, his life is in line with this thinking that in an evil world, men dedicated to the good are bound to suffer.  This is probably part of his religious faith and he accepts it as such.

Possible Satanism/occult motive to the crime. Secondary motive may be Satanism/occult. There is an occult circle in Carroll County that has been there for decades and holds regular outdoor meetings and ceremonies. Both MS and MP are rumored to be practicing Satanists and members of this occult circle. Probably not a primary motive, but they may have thought if they were going to kill them anyway, they might as well make it into a Satanic sacrifice: For the life of me, I cannot see MP as a Satanism or even being involved in the occult in any way. I am just not buying it. He would have to live an extreme double life as both a deeply religious Christian and a Satanist. Just forget it.

Rejoinders to the Case Against CP

Cody Patty confessing to sex with Liberty German 2

Facebook post with CP stating he had sex with an underage girl. People who saw this said he was confessing to having sex with Libby.

MP is Liberty’s guardian, her own grandfather, His son CP may have been having sex with Libby. Son is 28 years old. In the US, that man is a child molester and will go down on that charge and be registered sex offender for the rest of his life. CP may also have been having sex with Libby’s sister, now 16, starting when she was 13. He was an adult when possibly doing that too, and it was also illegal. Libby may have been killed to prevent a possible pregnancy or to keep her from going to authorities about the statutory rape: A recent theory, the best theory so far, is that Abbie was pregnant, and the crime was a botched abortion. It sounds bizarre, but it makes more sense than anything prior.

Perhaps CP had sex with Libby. This may be suggested from Facebook posts where he admits to having had sex with a 14 year old girl. Bizarrely, this post was made on 2-14, the day the girls bodies were discovered. CP’s friends say he was just joking around and suggest that these are just lyrics to a song, possibly a rap song. CP is either not very smart or he has very poor taste to be making such statements after two young teenage girls were raped and murdered. Hence perhaps he and his father were worried about a possible sex charge and resulting RSO status for life. There may also have been a worry that Libby was pregnant.

The fact that CP and MP both have rock solid alibis for the crime period would seem to render this motive moot. Further, it is not even 100% certain that CP had sex with Libby, or if he did, if she was going to turn him in. Libby was almost surely not pregnant. If she was not pregnant, why would anyone worry that she was? This was always an interesting motive, but it has bit the dust with the excellent alibis of CP and MP.

Two local women told me that CP had sex with Libby and also was suspected to be the older man who Libby’s sister Kelsi wrote about having a long-term sexual affair with. CP’s friends deny that he has committed statutory rape, but there are a number of people in and around Delphi who state the opposite. At any rate, one of the possible victims is dead now, and dead girls can’t testify. The other girl is now older but was known for refusing to finger the man she was having sex with because she loved him. So CP seems in the clear even if the accusations are true, and we have no proof that they are. We only have rumors. At any rate, this case is about the rapes and murders of two young teenage girls. Statutory rape is another matter altogether and is frankly beyond the scope of this post and for that matter this amateur investigation we have going on here.

In addition, it is not even certain that CP had sex with any underage teenage girls ever, as his friends claim that his confession is just a joke.

I will say that CP does not seem have very good judgement and is no stranger to breaking the law.  He’s clearly spent months in jail, and his driver’s license is probably suspended for quite some time. He’s hardly an upstanding fellow, but I do not believe he is a murderer.

Cody Patty confessing to sex with Liberty German

A photo that some think shows a close relationship between Libby and CP. However, they were also cousins, though not related by blood. Cousins can be quite close.

CP and MP are both rumored to be involved in child pornography: This is quite a stunning charge, and no evidence has been provided for it. CP may like to have sex with underage girls and men who do so, often photograph their activities. So we are not talking about the real deal child pornography but instead media involving naked teenage girls or sex with teenage girls. If you have ever seen a photo of a naked teenage girl (there are many quite legal nudist photos on the Net if you wish to peek), it looks exactly like a naked woman. Any normal man would be aroused by such a thing, so it’s not abnormal to find this arousing.

Although CP may have taken such photos at such time, I very much doubt if MP did unless he led some double life. Perhaps MP had a double life, but I doubt it. Also MP does not seem to be a sexually obsessed fellow. He may well enjoy sex, but I don’t think he is into sex to the point where it becomes an obsession and a problem, sometimes with criminal overtones. I’m just not buying this.

CP has some quite unsavory friends, including one in Lafayette who was arrested on 2-15 for possession of methamphetamine, sale of methamphetamine and having a sexual relationship with a 16 year old girl whom he also photographed. Photos were found on his phone: Clearly CP is not an angel by any means. But having bad friends and being a rapist-murderer are two different things. Fortunately, we are not allowed to be charged with having criminal friends, or quite a few of us would be imprisoned.

CP already has ~4 DUI’s at the young age of 28. Surely he has been in jail before. The DUI’s are at ~2 year intervals dating back to when he was ~20 years old:  CP has worse problems with alcohol and driving as Ron Logan, and Ron is 50 years CP’s senior. CP is not getting off to a very good start in life. But being a drunk driver and being a rapist-murderer are two very different things, as the persecution of Ron Logan showed us.

CP is a charming Alpha male player type with a bad boy air about him: Many men are like this. Rakes are not the finest of men, and they are no doubt quite happy with that status. Even aging roues like me are not so exemplary. There’s a difference between being a bad boy and a bad man. Lots of us are bad boys. I still get called that, and I am almost 60. It may well be terminal in my case. Bad boys are mostly just rebels who live up to the Alpha male stereotype. Women love bad boys, much to their detriment, but their lust for scary men is part of what drives so many men to play the role. If we men are to be rewarded for acting like callous sociopaths, a lot of us will play that role, if only to get laid. Sorry ladies, this is just how men are. If you don’t like it, there’s always the YWCA.

The man who did this crime is surely a bad boy, but he is also something much worse – is a bad man. CP is quite a bad boy, but I doubt if he is a real bad man of the type that would do such a crime.

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

14 Comments

Filed under Christianity, Crime, Gender Studies, Girls, Intoxicants, Jailbait, Law, Law enforcement, Man World, Midwest, Psychology, Regional, Religion, Romantic Relationships, Sex, Speed, Stimulants, USA

The Lies Never Stop

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 1:

I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources. How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. 

Also when I say I am 100% sure of something, that means that I am 100% sure of it in my own mind. All of us are 100% sure of all sorts of things we cannot prove. That’s the nature of the human condition. We simply assume many things are facts until proven otherwise. Now many of these things that I was completely certain of were later proven to be wrong. Such is the case with many other things people become certain of in their own mind. Once again, when I say I am sure or certain or 100% certain, it means only that I am sure in my own mind. I am not stating that any of these things are facts. They are simply my convictions. Any of all of these firmly held beliefs of mine about this case could possibly will later prove to be false.

The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 2:

I thought I made this one thing perfectly clear as Richard Nixon used to say:

I have no sources whatsoever among the families of the girls.

I have no sources whatsoever in LE, local or otherwise. 

There ya go.

What I do have is sources close to the families. These people generally live in Delphi and the surrounding region. So that makes my rumors even more hearsay. I’m not even talking to the families. I am talking to people who talk to the families!

Of course I have no LE sources. I thought I made that clear. Never have. Yes, I have talked to some of them, but of course they didn’t tell me a thing. A couple of times they told me that a certain person was a POI or that a certain person had been cleared with an airtight alibi. I suppose they don’t mind giving out that information. But other than that, they don’t tell me jack. It’s hard enough to even get them to call you back. I think if I asked them if my name was Robert Lindsay, they would say, “I am sorry, but I cannot comment on matters relating to an ongoing investigation.” That’s how bad it is.

So what do I have? Once again, I have sources who are close to LE. They get their information from LE, then they talk to me. So once again this is even more hearsay, as I am not even talking to LE but to the people who are talking to LE.

I really wish people would quit claiming I have LE or family sources. I just don’t. If you think I have these sources, just quit reading my stuff right now and go away. You will not be missed!

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 3: The lies never end. The latest is “Lindsay takes other people’s theories and claims they are his own.” Of course I don’t. This website is nothing but a compendium of rumors from all over the Net regarding this crime. I go through the rumors and try to rank them on a scale of weak to strong. I compare them against other rumors to see which one is better. All sorts of theories have been flying around since day one. I report those too.

The theories are really just more rumors. I’d say the vast majority of the rumor theories reported here were thought up by other people. I find most of my theories on other sites about this crime. That’s how it works, you know. You get theories about the crime from others. Yes, you use your own theories and you use other people’s theories. I really do not have time to down through the list of theories and say where I got them from. I have come up with a few of my own, but even with those, I guess someone else thought of them first. Also a lot of the theories here are also the result of constant brainstorming I do with my fellow sleuths.

Boy I cannot believe how much people lie about me. Almost every single thing my enemies say about me is a flat-out lie. At best they are deliberate distortions deviously taken out of context or misinterpreted to make me look bad. It’s hard to believe so many people are full of so much hate.

Here are some samples.

Robert Lindsay had a friend draw it. At least thats what he said. Le is saying it is not legitimate and are not condoning it.

Two heads comparison

The drawing in question is on the right.

Of course I didn’t have a friend draw it! I think I got it off Websleuths. It’s provenance is uncertain.

My enemies are retarded. They are confusing two different drawings.

One was of a young man who looks nothing like Bridge Guy. This is the one that LE immediately denounced and said was not commissioned by them.

The one above however that I found on Websleuths had comments with it stating that this drawing was apparently drawn by an LE artist. I am not aware of LE ever renouncing this photo even once.

Robert Lindsay has been on his blog all weekend, accusing everyone under the sun of killing the girls. First, he said it was someone that would knock us out of our seats (that never came, however). Then he accused Abbie’s boyfriend and his father. Then another father/son duo with the last name of “S”. Then that SAME family, but this time the uncle/nephew duo.

First it was a murder to keep them quiet because Abbie was pregnant and they didn’t want to deal with the baby and then it was a “botched abortion” that was never meant to be a murder. (So what does he think happened? The men were going to pull the girls off the bridge, give Abbie an abortion, and then send them on their merry way?) A very long blog entry talks about 13 years old girls and their sexual appetites. (Y’all can find that one on your own.) He also suspects a Satanic conspiracy.

Basically, Robert has thrown a bunch of things at the wall to see what sticks. His followers continue to “thank him” for providing such “good” updates and information, even though he’s getting his info from forums, boards, and messageboards and then just rewriting him.

I have no idea if any of his theories are correct. However, if they’re not, then he’s dragging a bunch of people through the mud.

I am not accusing anyone of doing this crime. We do have some folks who I and others regard as suspects or POI’s.

Incidentally, none of these people or theories came from me. They come from two women, one in Delphi and another in a nearby town, who have done more research on this case than anyone I know outside of LE. These theories and the suspects are from them. I know you all do not like me “stealing” suspects and theories, but that’s just tough shit.

We have elaborated on these women’s theories. I have no idea if these men are guilty or not. That is for LE to determine.

Incidentally the theory and suspects coming from these women are the only ones I have heard so far that are coherent, make much sense and explain the facts of the case.  That doesn’t mean it’s true, but it’s the best theory so far.

As far as dragging names through the mud, every forum, in particular the Topix forum where this slug slithered out of it, has been naming people with real names and faces all over the place. They have probably named 50-100 people by now.

I have never accused Abbie’s boyfriend of a thing. Nor have I accused his father of a thing. I am also not accusing any father-son duo with the last name S. I don’t know where they came up with that because I never said it.

Then the same family, but this time an uncle/nephew team of doing it.

I never said that either. It is true that we regard some members of the S. family as suspects or POI’s.

First it was a murder to keep them quiet because Abbie was pregnant and they didn’t want to deal with the baby

Correct, and this is the best theory on this murder I have heard so far.

then it was a “botched abortion” that was never meant to be a murder.

We don’t know. Maybe they intended to leave her alive, or maybe they intended to kill her. Further, there is superb evidence for this botched abortion theory.

So what does he think happened? The men were going to pull the girls off the bridge, give Abbie an abortion, and then send them on their merry way?

Actually, some of us thought that maybe they were going to do an amateur abortion on one girl and then terrorize both of them into silence by threatening to kill them if they said anything. If someone threatened to kill me if I talked, I might never talk. This is a valid theory in my opinion.

A very long blog entry talks about 13 years old girls and their sexual appetites. (Y’all can find that one on your own.)

This post says absolutely no such thing about 13 year old girls and their sexual appetites, though obviously that is a valid thing to write about considering the avalanche of lies I am hearing about this subject. Did you know that 10’s of millions of grown women claim 13 year old girls have no sex drive whatsoever? Incredible, isn’t it?

The blog points out the severe puritanism involved in accusing me of libeling a dead girl by saying she had sex. Even if she was 13, it’s not libel to suggest she had sex. It’s only libel if you think sex is some horrible evil and it’s a diabolical insult to accuse a pure and virginal 13 year old angel of such beastly behavior. It’s not libel to state a 13 year old girl had sex because there’s nothing wrong with 13 year old girls having sex. A libel has to be an insult, and that’s not an insult.

I don’t care if 13 year old girls have sex. They can do it all they want for all I care. I only wish that they not get pregnant as a result. The post also states my opinion that teenage minors have free sexual agency and should have a right to have sex with any other teenage minors.

He also suspects a Satanic conspiracy.

Actually, I don’t. This is just another theory from the women I discussed above. These theories are their babies. We are considering a Satanic motive to this crime, especially as two of our POI’s are said to be practicing Satanists with deep involvement in a local occult circle in Carroll County. One of these men is almost certainly a Satanist.

Basically, Robert has thrown a bunch of things at the wall to see what sticks.

Exactly. This is precisely what I want everyone to do. Throw out any theory you have out there, any POI’s or suspects you have, and let’s see what you’ve got. Incidentally this is the approach used by all good detectives.

even though he’s getting his info from forums, boards, and message boards and then just rewriting him.

I do not know how many times I have answered this. The vast majority of theories and suspects on this site are not my own. I got them from other people, as noted above. I never claimed that I thought them up by myself. This site is a clearinghouse for all information about the case, all suspects and POI’s, from anyone and anywhere.

You got a problem with that? Tough shit.

I have no idea if any of his theories are correct. However, if they’re not, then he’s dragging a bunch of people through the mud.

Tough shit. That’s just too bad, now isn’t it?

We are not naming anyone by name. We are using initials. Also I am not revealing my photographic evidence (yes, I have it) against these suspects. That is available only by emailing me. In addition, my full descriptions of the cases against these 3-4 men are also obtainable from me only by email. I will not put this photo evidence on the site, nor will I spell out the exact cases against these men. It’s not proper to do that in a public forum.

With the precautions we have put in place, we think we are balancing people’s right to privacy against our legal attempts to solve this case.

And if you all don’t like it, well, that’s just too bad.

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

9 Comments

Filed under Crime, Girls, Law enforcement, Midwest, Regional, Sex, USA

No, You Cannot Libel the Dead

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 1:

I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources. How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. 

Also when I say I am 100% sure of something, that means that I am 100% sure of it in my own mind. All of us are 100% sure of all sorts of things we cannot prove. That’s the nature of the human condition. We simply assume many things are facts until proven otherwise. Now many of these things that I was completely certain of were later proven to be wrong. Such is the case with many other things people become certain of in their own mind. Once again, when I say I am sure or certain or 100% certain, it means only that I am sure in my own mind. I am not stating that any of these things are facts. They are simply my convictions. Any of all of these firmly held beliefs of mine about this case could possibly will later prove to be false.

The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 2:

I thought I made this one thing perfectly clear as Richard Nixon used to say:

I have no sources whatsoever among the families of the girls.

I have no sources whatsoever in LE, local or otherwise. 

There ya go.

What I do have is sources close to the families. These people generally live in Delphi and the surrounding region. So that makes my rumors even more hearsay. I’m not even talking to the families. I am talking to people who talk to the families!

Of course I have no LE sources. I thought I made that clear. Never have. Yes, I have talked to some of them, but of course they didn’t tell me a thing. A couple of times they told me that a certain person was a POI or that a certain person had been cleared with an airtight alibi. I suppose they don’t mind giving out that information. But other than that, they don’t tell me jack. It’s hard enough to even get them to call you back. I think if I asked them if my name was Robert Lindsay, they would say, “I am sorry, but I cannot comment on matters relating to an ongoing investigation.” That’s how bad it is.

So what do I have? Once again, I have sources who are close to LE. They get their information from LE, then they talk to me. So once again this is even more hearsay, as I am not even talking to LE but to the people who are talking to LE.

I really wish people would quit claiming I have LE or family sources. I just don’t. If you think I have these sources, just quit reading my stuff right now and go away. You will not be missed!

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 3: The lies never end. The latest is “Lindsay takes other people’s theories and claims they are his own.” Of course I don’t. This website is nothing but a compendium of rumors from all over the Net regarding this crime. I go through the rumors and try to rank them on a scale of weak to strong. I compare them against other rumors to see which one is better. All sorts of theories have been flying around since day one. I report those too.

The theories are really just more rumors. I’d say the vast majority of the rumor theories reported here were thought up by other people. I find most of my theories on other sites about this crime. That’s how it works, you know. You get theories about the crime from others. Yes, you use your own theories and you use other people’s theories. I really do not have time to down through the list of theories and say where I got them from. I have come up with a few of my own, but even with those, I guess someone else thought of them first. Also a lot of the theories here are also the result of constant brainstorming I do with my fellow sleuths.

The dead cannot currently be defamed under English law. This is because defamation, whether it is libel or slander, is a personal action which cannot be assigned or brought on someone’s behalf. … Similarly, where a person commences defamation proceedings but passes away before a decision is reached, the action is abated.

I am now getting accused of libeling Abigail Williams, a dead person. How am I libeling her? I am accusing the poor thing of having sex!

Anyway, I am not accusing her of anything. I have my ear to the ground for the deepest and best rumors going around right inside of Delphi, and I am in connection with amateur sleuths who are doing some of the best work I have ever seen on this case. These people have reported to me that there is deep longstanding rumor in Delphi that Abigail Williams had a boyfriend for months. He is a 16 year old boy whose name is known. There is also a deep and near-secretive whispered rumor that Abbie was pregnant by this boy.

Who told me these diabolical rumors about this poor, untainted virgin maiden? Two women, Two middle aged women. That’s who’s spreading these vile rumors tarnishing the pure and untrammeled reputation of Miss Abigail Williams.

Go take it up with them. It’s your own gender, the females, who are spreading this stuff. I am just passing it along from someone else.

I’m not accusing anyone of anything. I am just saying that there is a rumor saying this and that. By the way, reporting of rumors is generally immune from libel law also, as long as they are stated as such. It’s almost impossible to win a libel case against any real journalist in the US. The free speech laws have been so widely by court precedent that you have to be pretty horrible to lose a libel suit.

Oh, the horrors! Can you imagine, a teenage girl having sex with a teenage boy! Their reputations would be ruined! I mean, that never happens, ever! Teenage girls never have sex with teenage boys!

We are a terribly puritanical culture when you are said to libel a sexually mature human being for stating the so called damaging information that they…! Oh my God! I can’t say the word because I am such an uptight prude! That word! That evil, gross, sickening word! That they had…they had…sex! Oh no, I said the word! Ew gross! What word? Sex! Shhhhhhhhhhhhh that’s an evil word. Don’t say that word! You will go to Hell! God will strike you down!

All you women screaming that a female can be libeled at all by accusing her of having sex, do you support ISIS? The Taliban? I mean that’s the way they think.

Got news for everyone here. There’s nothing wrong with having sex! There’s nothing wrong with any mature human having sex with another mature human, provided it is legal. I don’t even care if 13 and 14 year old girls have sex. Enough of them do anyway. I would just want them to make sure they don’t get pregnant. You can’t stop enormous natural human drives.

Telling mature people to not have sex is like telling to them to not eat, sleep or drink. Sex is a natural human function. It’s a good thing. It’s not an evil that sends you to Hell as so many women on here seem to think.

And it’s legal for underage teens to have sex with each other. Here in California, they can do it all they want. Nor should there be anything LE can do about it.

Teenagers have free sexual agency and should have the right to express their natural sexual desires and perform their normal sexual functions with other teenagers. Why do you want to make it against the law?

Are you a Puritan? A Victorian? A Comstock? A fuddy duddy? A prig? An uptight person? Are you repressed? Where are your sackcloths? Do you flagellate yourself? Are you frigid? Are you impotent? Do you lie there like a fish? Do you get off three seconds after you are in? Do you insist on doing it in the dark because you are so repressed? Are you a lousy lay? Why do you hate sex so much? Too much religion?

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

9 Comments

Filed under American, Crime, Culture, Girls, Jailbait, Journalism, Law, Mass Hysterias, Midwest, Regional, Sex, USA

Delphi Murders: Possible Motives

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 1:

I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources. How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. 

The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 2:

I thought I made this one thing perfectly clear as Richard Nixon used to say:

I have no sources whatsoever among the families of the girls.

I have no sources whatsoever in LE, local or otherwise. 

There ya go.

What I do have is sources close to the families. These people generally live in Delphi and the surrounding region. So that makes my rumors even more hearsay. I’m not even talking to the families. I am talking to people who talk to the families!

Of course I have no LE sources. I thought I made that clear. Never have. Yes, I have talked to some of them, but of course they didn’t tell me a thing. A couple of times they told me that a certain person was a POI or that a certain person had been cleared with an airtight alibi. I suppose they don’t mind giving out that information. But other than that, they don’t tell me jack. It’s hard enough to even get them to call you back. I think if I asked them if my name was Robert Lindsay, they would say, “I am sorry, but I cannot comment on matters relating to an ongoing investigation.” That’s how bad it is.

So what do I have? Once again, I have sources who are close to LE. They get their information from LE, then they talk to me. So once again this is even more hearsay, as I am not even talking to LE but to the people who are talking to LE.

I really wish people would quit claiming I have LE or family sources. I just don’t. If you think I have these sources, just quit reading my stuff right now and go away. You will not be missed!

NOTE TO COMMENTERS 3: The lies never end. The latest is “Lindsay takes other people’s theories and claims they are his own.” Of course I don’t. This website is nothing but a compendium of rumors from all over the Net regarding this crime. I go through the rumors and try to rank them on a scale of weak to strong. I compare them against other rumors to see which one is better. All sorts of theories have been flying around since day one. I report those too.

The theories are really just more rumors. I’d say the overwhelming majority of theories presented here were thought up by other people. I find most of my theories on other sites about this crime. That’s how it works, you know. You get theories about the crime from others. Yes, you use your own theories and you use other people’s theories. I really do not have time to down through the list of theories and say where I got them from. I have come up with a few of my own, but even with those, I guess someone else thought of them first. Also a lot of the theories here are also the result of constant brainstorming I do with my fellow sleuths.

I will try to sketch out the possible motives for the Delphi killings based on my latest theory. This theory explains the facts of the case better than any I have seen thus far. Now that does not mean it is true. This theory may be well be completely false as all of the other theories have been so far. But it’s worth looking into.

My new theory of this case comes from two middle aged local women who have done more research into this case than anyone I know. So these are not my theories. They are someone else’s. Nevertheless, I think they bear looking into. I have no idea if there is anything to this theory or not, but we need to look at all theories. That’s what real detectives do.

According to this theory, the key to this whole case is the pregnancy of Abbie Williams. Once you start to figure that out, you can start to figure out the case.

A strong rumor which I have heard exclusively from married women with children in and around Delphi is that Abbie Williams was pregnant. A recent elaboration of the rumor said that she was found to be pregnant on autopsy and the baby was determined to be that of Logan Holder, her 16 year old boyfriend. I would like to point out that this rumor derives not from me but from three women age 35-55, all living in Delphi or nearby, and all of whom are married with children. At least one woman is extremely conservative. If you have concerns with the reporting that Abbie was pregnant, please take it up with these women.

Like a sordid B movie, this whole case may revolve around the pregnancy of a very young teenage girl. Unless she had an abortion, her boyfriend, a 16 year old boy named Jason Holder, was looking at becoming a father at age 16 and a lifetime of child support.

Abbie may have refused to get an abortion. This may have become a serious problem. A problem that needed to be eliminated to preserve the reputation, freedom and finances of a young man and his family.

Now if you are reading this and thinking that the boy having sex with these two girls was the murderer of the girls, you would be wrong. I believe he did not participated in this crime. But other people may have, for the motive listed above.

Another possible motive is Satanism and the occult. The Satanism/occult theory is once again from the local women I know. I have no idea how accurate it is. I am just throwing it out there as a possible motive in the case, but I have no idea whether it was a motive at all here.

There is an active occult circle in Carroll County which has been there for decades. If you read up on this case, you will see locals talking about this occult circle and the many strange goings-on centering around them over the years. Strange things written on buildings, odd gatherings by moonlight in the forest – it’s all so strange and creepy. This Satanic circle is active to this day.

The way it ties into this crime is three of the leading male suspects in this crime, age 45 and 55, were reportedly active members of this circle and practicing Satanists. I can verify that at least two of these men, one age 46 and the other 55, are absolutely practicing Satanists. This can easily be determined by looking at their Facebook pages.

From here we may glean the numbers associated with this case like 13 and 32 and the strange killing of Abigail Williams, a 13 year old girl with the same name as a woman who may be one of the Satanists’ worst enemies. This woman is Abigail Williams, the woman who turned in many other women as witches in Salem resulting in the deaths of many of these women who were convicted of witchcraft. Since the Satanists could not get at the original Abigail Williams, perhaps they decided to kill her namesake to get at their enemy that way, 350 years later. I know it sounds strange, but people who are way off into Satanism are not exactly normal people.

However, I do think the occult angle, if it exists at all, is a secondary motive. These girls were killed for reasons centering around the sex life of one girl and the problems that resulted from that. The men were planning to kill them for that reason. Perhaps they thought that as long as they were going to commit a homicide anyway, they may as well make it a Satanic sacrifice to get that extra kick.

  • 13: The murder was committed on the 13th. Unlucky number, the worst unlucky number of them all. Occult significance.
  • 32: Add the numbers of the date of the killing together and you get 32. 32 is a very important number among Satanists. What it means is hard to ascertain, but one source I found said it represented Sacrifice, possibly a Day of Sacrifice.
  • Abigail Williams: 13 year old murder victim and namesake of a woman who may have been one of the Satanists’ worst enemies.
  • Crime scene photos: A Delphi resident obtained crime scene photos and posted them on his website for a short time. They were seen by a number of people who all independently corroborated what they saw. The website owner said that not only did Abbie have a stake in her stomach, implying an attempt to kill a fetus, but that the bodies were posed in an odd way that made him think this was an occult or Satanic killing.

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

494 Comments

Filed under Crime, Girls, Jailbait, Law enforcement, Midwest, Regional, Sex, USA

Primitive People Are Smarter Than You Think

We have a very primitive but wise group of Asians living amongst us around here called Hmong. This is a Chinese minority group that has moved down into Laos in the last 300 years. They did not even have a written language until the 1950’s and they have always lived quite a primitive life in the jungles.

Nevertheless, they are quite wise. I read an ethnography on them one time. It said that the Hmong believe that women who get pregnant before 19-20 are more likely to have problems in childbirth. The people who figured this out had no knowledge of modern medicine. But we now know that females continue to develop until age ~18-19. Pregnancies before this age are more problematic because the female’s hips are not wide enough to carry a baby yet. The final widening of the hips sufficient to carry a baby does not occur until age ~19.

You will notice this if you see 16-18 year old girls with killer curves and skinny bodies. They look incredibly hot but their bodies are not natural. It’s not normal to be skinny and curvy. You want curves, you got a bigger woman. You want thin, you get a stick. These girls look this way because the body in a formal sense is fully developed by age 16 in the sense of sex drive, full breast and pubic hair development, menarche and the full curvy body shape with narrow stomach, wider hips and a projecting butt is present by age 16.

Except for one thing. The hips have not yet widened to full adult proportions. So the 16-18 year old girl look is not natural or normal. It is a phase of incomplete development and makes little sense biologically. Since it is not biologically correct, there are increased pregnancy issues at this age range.

When I learned that the Hmong have a traditional belief that females should not get pregnant until 19-20, I was stunned. These humans had learned this via trial and error over the centuries. They didn’t need modern medicine to tell them the facts. They figured them out on their own.

Similarly, the Hmong have a traditional belief that one cannot learn a new language after age 40. This has been a problem in my area because non-English speaking Hmong in this age group simply refuse to enroll in English classes and so never learn to speak English much at all. The men often pick up a bit of English anyway because they are often working, but the women tend to stay at home, so older Hmong women are often Hmong monolinguals.

I told my mother of this Hmong belief and she said, “Aha! See? They figured that out on their own. And they are probably right. By age 40, it will be awfully hard to pick up a new language.” And studies in formal linguistics are showing this to be true.

22 Comments

Filed under Anthropology, Applied, Asians, Biology, Cultural, Girls, Health, Hmong, Hmong, Hmong-Mien, Language Families, Language Learning, Linguistics, Medicine, Race/Ethnicity, SE Asians

Updated April 26: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

This is my long-awaited update. But a lot of new text has been added including things that have never been revealed in the media. I hope this is useful to you (I don’t want to say I hope you enjoy it as that sounds terrible)

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that cannot be determined from this crime, as it was not a pedophilic offense. Pedophilic crimes only refer to those against victims who are 12 years old and under.

A hebephilic crime would target a victim of 11-14 years of age. As you can see, there is some overlap around the tweens. Instead of being a pedophilic crime, this was a hebephilic offense. And while the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Pedophilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls 12-under.

Hebephilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls ~11-14.

Age of victims: 13 and 14

You do the math.

Thank you so much for this. 

Note to commenters 2: I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources.

How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is a new update containing lots of new information, mostly in the form of photos, including the first ever published photos of the actual crime scene! This should be a blockbuster post.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and LE. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. I am getting my very best information from people who are close to the girls’ families. Of all of the rumors and information I get, these are some of the best. Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

My Musings on This Case

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself. Source: My speculation based on the nature of the offense and the obvious skill involved.

Unsub is 5’10, 180 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch.  Source: Expert on CNN, paunch obvious in photo.

In my opinion, Unsub’s age is ~60. LE’s latest estimate is that he is 40-50 years old, but that’s seems too young to me. At the very least, that style of pants is outdated, and nowadays is only worn by men over 40 in that area. Conclusion: Anywhere between ~40-60, with an emphasis on the high end. t Sources: LE, sleuths commenting on the photo.

16681525_10155025082032118_8397740859158404533_n

Excellent drawing of Unsub from an LE artist.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Source: Gun is obviously visible in photograph. Left-handedness concluded from the holstered gun pointing backwards on the right side.

16830677_10155067426604801_3110125659007687143_n

Photo clearly shows a semiautomatic .911 or 45 mm handgun holstered on his right, which means he is left-handed. If you cannot see that obvious gun there, I do not know what to say to you.

Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. Source: LE.

Unsub is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing. Part of this is no doubt to disguise himself, but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body where the girls could leave scratch marks if the girls fight back hard, although they still could scratch up his face pretty well. Source: LE, my own theorizing and conjecture, common sense.

tda8c7f81d02f_fbase

In my opinion, this is the type of cap that Unsub is wearing.

What LE refers to as a fanny pack is actually what is called a deer kit. This contains knives, scissors, etc. for cutting up the deer after you kill it. So he is a hunter and he is going out to hunt these girls, and it appears he might be ready to do something terrible to their bodies. Source: A fellow sleuth researched it and discovered that that is actually a deer kit such as a hunter would use. It is too flat to be a fanny pack. Unsub must be a hunter. I doubt if he is a non-hunter because no non-hunter would know about a deer kit.

v2cCGZl

GIF image of Unsub photos run together.

There has been much talk about whether or not there were two murderers or one. Initial statements by LE implied that there were two killers, but they have not made any statements to that effect in quite some time. Conclusion: At the moment, the two killers theory is pretty dead ,and it looks like LE is leaning towards one killer. Source: A variety of LE statements and lack thereof.

There have been persistent rumors since even before the case was released to the media (these early rumors coming from family members) that Abbie survived until the next day, 2-14. There were different rumors, including that she was found alive but died on the way to the hospital, that she was alive when found but died soon after, that the coroner said she survived the attack but died of hypothermia in the woods, that her body was still warm when found, etc.

These rumors started almost instantly from people close to the family. We now have some excellent information that she somehow survived the attack and tried to crawl a ways away until she died. I am still getting reports that Abbie died on 2-14, and her body was still warm when found from some of my best sources close to the families, so this version is still strong.

Conclusion: The best analysis now is that Abbie did indeed survive the initial attack and died at some point later on on 2-14. The thing we do not know is how long she survived after she was attacked. She lingered for anywhere from 5-7 hours, which is my theory, and actually, that is nothing short of miraculous considering the gravity of her wounds. Sources: Rumors, people close the family, people close to LE.

Rumors from the search party stated that the girls had to have been moved since the dump site found on 2-14 had been searched on 2-13. The searchers were adamant that they had searched the dump site thoroughly on 2-13.

There is now evidence stating that searchers ran a thermal imager over the area on 2-13 (perhaps with an aircraft?), and while there were plenty of living things down there, none of them were human. In other words, the only things alive in that woods when the imager was run were wild animals. One would think that if the girls had been put there by 4 PM or so on 2-13 that the bodies would have shown up on the thermal imager.

In addition, there is now excellent information that the girls were removed immediately to a structure nearby where they were tortured, raped and homicidally attacked over a period of at at least ~12 hours. LE now accepts that they were removed and returned to site. Also they had to be returned after 2:30 AM when all of the searchers left and no doubt before dawn in the morning, as returning them in the daylight would have been stupid and crazy. Dawn was at 7 AM that day, so they had to be returned between 2:30-7 AM. Sources: People close to the search party, people close to the families, leak from LE.

dump spot with FBI(rz)

The actual body dump area with Ron Logan and an elegantly dressed FBI gumshoe. Dig the long tails on that jacket. Stylin!

Truck at cemetary on edge of dump site(RZ)

Truck parked at SW corner of cemetery at the edge of the trash dump ravine.

Dump site from road to cemetary(resize)

Trash dump ravine from the road to the cemetery. The killer drove down this road from the barn to the cemetery, then to the cemetery, then through the SE gate to Ron Logan’s land and the trail where he dragged the bodies. The entire distance from barn to beginning of trail is no more than 200 yards.

Cemetery on edge of ravine(resize)

The SW side of the cemetery near the trash dump ravine.

Drag area(resize)

This is the actual trail down which the bodies were dragged very early AM 2-14.

Part of cemetary near edge of ravine dump site(resize)

SW corner of the cemetery near the edge of the trash dump ravine.

Trash at dump site(resize)

More trash at the trash dump site on the SW end of the cemetery.

Drag area(resize)

This is apparently the trash dump site on the SW corner of the cemetery, a ravine where people throw trash. At first we thought this was where he dumped the bodies, but then we found the SE gate and the trail and it all made better sense

Dump site(resize)

This is the trash dump site on the ravine in the SW corner where people throw trash. Initially thought to be the body dump site, we realized that that was not possible. My investigator could not walk down that ravine in daylight and he wasn’t dragging two bodies either. We concluded that there was no way for the killer to drag two bodies down  this un-navigable ravine in the middle of night. You can’t even walk down it in the daytime with no bodies. How do you do it at 3 AM dragging two heavy bodies. Just forget it.

gate at SE corner of cemetary(rz)

Gate at the SE corner of the cemetery. The killer drove down a road to this gate early in the AM, opened the gate and drove 10 feet on Ron Logan’s horse pasture to the beginning of a trail to the dump site. He dragged the bodies down this trail in the middle of the night.

3 point turn SW of cemetary bodies dumped to right near stick pile(resize)

This is a three point turn SW of the cemetery leading to a ravine where people throw trash. Originally we thought he threw the bodies down here or dragged the bodies down the slope, but the slope is too steep to hike down, much less drag two bodies at night. And tossing the bodies over would not put them at the dump site. Later we focused on the SE corner of the cemetery where there is an unlocked gate leading to Ron Logan’s horse pasture. 10 feet further, a trail begins down the slope. This trail takes you directly to the dump site. So the killer must have driven to this spot, parked and dragged the bodies down the trail to the dump site. This is doable late at night, though difficult.

There is a rumor about how the girls were moved to the dump site. The rumor said that searchers followed drag marks, presumably left by the girls, to the dump site. So the killer returned the girls to the forest where they were abducted somehow. But this might not be difficult as he kept them alive for at least 12 hours in a barn across the road from Logan’s property. No searchers would have gone near Ron Logan’s outbuildings as they were located far from the search zone, so he had no fear of being caught.

Hence the killer was torturing, raping and homicidally attacking the girls at the same time that searches were ongoing for 10 hours straight. But from the kill site, the killer had a perfect view of the area, and he could determine when the searches were going on and when they stopped. Therefore, he knew when the searches had stopped at 2:30 AM, and he returned them sometime between then and 7 AM that morning.

The kill site is only 200 yards from the cemetery. He took the girls from the kill site to the cemetery and drove to the SE corner of the cemetery. There is a gate there that is open. When you walk through the gate, you are on Ron Logan’s horse pasture. The trail that the girls were dragged down to the dumpsite starts only 10 feet from the cemetery gate.

It is not known how the killer kept the girls quiet, but perhaps he terrorized the girls with a gun. Surely he must have bound and gagged them, probably very soon after he said “Down the hill,” in the tape. They were definitely bound when they were kept in the barn. It also makes sense that he would have kept them alive during this time. The killer remained with the girls the whole time they were in the barn committing his crimes right under the noses of the search parties!

I believe that the homicidal attack on the girls, no doubt the throat slitting, may have been done not long before they were dumped on the hill. One more thing we need to note is that there is no way the killer dumped those bodies there on 2-13 or even up until 2:30 AM on 2-14, as there were loud and obvious searchers with their shouts and lights in the area. You don’t dump bodies right in the middle of a search party that is looking for just those bodies. No one does that.

Yet somehow he dumped those bodies there between 2:30 AM-7:40 AM on 2-14.

There is a rumor says that the killer thrust a large pointed wooden stick into Abbie’s stomach. This brutal spearing must have occurred at the dump site, especially since even that spearing somehow did not kill Abbie! In fact, she survived for at least 3 and maybe 7 hours afterwards! He would not have speared her before being placed at the dump site because it makes no sense to drag a girl with a spear in her down a hill. Further, Abbie survived the spearing, which means she must have been speared at the dump site.

Obviously they were dragged down the hill, placed at the dump site, and then the killer speared Abbie in the stomach as one final Parthian Thrust shows the profound rage, hatred and contempt that this killer must have felt for his victims.

Source: Leaks from LE, people close to the families, my own theorizing. The theory that he removed them from the site to the barn is quite solid, and I believe it is fact, in addition to the location where they were driven in the early AM to the trail where they were dragged, which I also regard as fact.

Fence around cemetary road to Ron Logans(resize)

Fence around cemetery on the road to Ron Logan’s horse pasture at the SE end of the cemetery at a gate. The killer drove this route very early in the AM on route to body dump.

Barn crime scene(rz)

This is the photo that initially led us to consider the barn as a kill site. What is that cop with a dog doing there? That’s a crime scene, and a bad one. We noticed this photo of police with dogs searching the barn and put two and two together. We knew an outbuilding had been used, but we had no idea where it was. The media reports got this all wrong, describing this photo as a search of Ron Logan’s land, when actually it was a search of the Mears property, probably especially the barn.

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – -the barn on the Mears property across the street. Here is a side view.

Barn3(RZ)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Flowers in the barn. This, in addition to the photos of dogs searching the barn and my investigator’s discussions with Mears family members, solidified my conclusion that this was the kill site. No one knows exactly where the girls were killed. Perhaps it was here?

Barn4(rz)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Here is the ill-fated barn. Even in daytime, you cannot see inside the barn. My investigator was only able to see objects at the very front of the barn. Everything else was hidden. You could also pull a car in there as it is big enough to fit a car. The car also would not be seen. Barn is about 50 yards from the road but from the road, visibility into the barn even in daylight is about zero.

Barn1(RZ)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Interior of the ill-fated barn. As you can see, it is quite spacious inside. Also people inside are invisible to those on the outside even in daylight. Cloudy weather is worse.

Barn5(RZ)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. One last photo of the barn, this time from inside the barn. As you can see, you can easily pull a car into that barn.

Someone posted photos supposedly from the body dump site on a website frequented by Delphi residents. The photo was quickly taken down, but a number of people saw it anyway. The photo shows the two dead girls and the coroner. The person who posted the photo had some text saying that the bodies were positioned in an odd way. The only sense that the poster could make out of this odd posing of the bodies is that he thought it might have been some sort of a ritual, possibly a Satanic ritual.

I believe this is called “posing” the bodies and is a favorite with serial killers. There are no details on how the girls were positioned. Conclusion: This is probably a good rumor as people posted what they saw on the site on a family members’ site, and none of the family members said that the information was false. Source: A number of people who saw the Delphi resident’s web page.

The crime scene does not make sense in this case. The girls seem to have been attacked soon after Unsub said, “Go down the hill.” The entire south side of the creek was roped off as a crime scene. I do not feel that this is a homicide site; instead, I feel there was some sort of an altercation here as he tried to put them in a vehicle he had placed there for this purpose.

People are now saying that the whole attack was over soon after it began, and there are reports saying that the 6-minute audiotape contains the horrifying record of a homicide. This would imply that the girls were murdered very quickly. But the logistics of the case do not support a homicidal attack soon after abduction, at least in the case of Abbie.

Reports that the crime was over quickly after it began do not make sense for a variety of reasons. Furthermore, assuming Abbie’s body was still warm when found, if she was murdered at 4 PM, how does she linger for 17 1/2 hours until the next day? Simple, it didn’t happen.

However, there is some brutal audio and perhaps video that Liberty recorded on her phone. Some of the audio was recorded right before the abduction, and there is 40 minutes after that. The audio right after the recording of the man saying, “Down the hill,” records the girls screaming.

Does that imply that the girls were attacked soon after being told to go down the hill? Yes.

There is a big question about the phone.  After 5:30 PM and for several hours, Liberty’s phone was pinging all over town which means it was not in Liberty’s possession. The question about the phone is whether or not it was recovered. The latest and best theory seems to be that Liberty’s phone was not recovered and all of the audio and video was taken from the Iphone Cloud. There is an option on an Iphone to immediately save all data to the Cloud.

If she threw the phone in the woods, it should have been found by now.

OK, so why was Liberty’s phone pinging all over town for several hours during the search? This would make sense if the phone was in the woods, but it appears now that the phone was not in the woods. So why did it ping all over town?

The killer had the two girls in his remote structure soon after they were abducted. If the structure was not far from the dump site, the phone could have been on Liberty’s body while she was in the structure as Logan’s property is near the forest where they were taken. Perhaps in the process of disrobing her, the killer found Liberty’s cellphone. Perhaps it was dead by this point.

Under this scenario, Unsub either disposed of or destroyed the phone after it died, and this is why it has never been found. Perhaps he smashed it to bits. Perhaps he discarded it in the garbage somewhere. Or even better yet, he threw it in the river. Conclusion: It now appears that the phone was indeed not recovered, but that is not as solid of a fact as we would like it to be. Source: People close to the search party, people close to the case.

Fallen tree on north side hiding spot for Unsub(resize & rotate)

A large tree down the slope from the north side of the bridge. We believe the killer may have hid here lying in wait for the girls to start across the bridge, at which point, he followed them from north to south and essentially trapped them on the south end of the bridge.

Cigars(RZ)

A pack of cigars maybe left by a hunter under the tree where the killer may have lay in wait for his victims. The cigars are not the killer’s. My investigator told me that the entire area seemed to have been gone over with a fine tooth comb by LE. It seems that LE was suspicious of this area on the north side just as we are. Perhaps their theory is the same as ours.

beginning of bridge on north side(resize & rotate)

The beginning of the bridge on the north side. We believe that the killer accessed the bridge from the north side like all hikers do and set off down the trail to the north side of the bridge, where he descended and lay in wait for his victims.

The south side of the river was roped off as a crime scene, not the north side. Yes, the tape was removed two days later, but so what? This is standard procedure in a park. But if the south side was not a homicide scene but instead some other sort of scene such as an abduction scene, it could have been gone over quickly, and there would be no reason to keep it roped off. The girls were not attacked much at the dump site, as the dump site was described as pristine. Conclusion: The best theory right now is that the south side was the scene of some scuffle probably as he was trying to tie them up and get them in his vehicle. The best evidence now suggests that the girls were killed in the barn across the street from Ron Logan’s property. Sources: LE, media reports, sleuths.

The FBI interviewed a man who had property on the south side of the creek. They asked about his gun(s), his vehicle(s), and whether there were any outbuildings. From this we can conclude that the FBI believes that a gun, a vehicle and an outbuilding were used in this crime.

In addition, the notion of the barn as kill site fits well into the very earliest statements from family members 1.5 hours before the media even reported the crime saying that the girls were found raped and killed in a cabin. Since the girls were found dumped in the forest, the rumor about being found in a cabin made no sense.

But now there is a way that we tie this all together. Sure, the cabin or structure played a serious role in the crime, but not as a dump site. Instead, the cabin (actually a barn) was the place where they were abused, raped and killed! So the Cabin Theory (actually a Barn Theory) makes a new appearance, this time making a lot more sense. Conclusion: The Cabin Theory is fact, except the kill site was a barn and not a cabin. As the cabin talk started up right away, this also implies that LE found the kill site very soon after they found the bodies. Sources: Family members, people close to the family, leaks from LE.

There is a rumor stating that LE says that Liberty could have escaped several times, but she chose to stay by her best friend’s side to the end. In real life, they were inseparable. That means that Libby is truly a hero for giving her life in order not to abandon her friend. And it makes this crime even more sad. Conclusion: It is probably true. It is hard to understand why LE would make up such a story, and LE would be the only people to know. Source: Person close to the family.

There is indeed a voice recording of Unsub saying, “Go down the hill.” The next thing you hear on the tape is the girls screaming. This is part of an audiotape heroically recorded by Libby by turning on the recorder on her phone as the girls were being abducted. It has also been implied, terrifyingly, that the audio is actually a recording of the rapes and murders. Conclusion: The four words are fact. From the behavior of LE, it does seem as if something quite terrible is on the rest of that audio. Source: People close to the family.

There is a rumor that says that there is not 6 minutes of video/audio but instead there is 40 minutes of video/audio! Someone posted this on a site that the families frequent, and no family members asked to take it down for being inaccurate, so there is something to it. I believe there is little more video, and most of that 40 minutes is audio. And I have heard that it’s ugly and nasty stuff, so terrifying that LE does not want to release it. Strong rumor.

Conclusion: Almost certainly true. Surely there is nasty stuff on that audio, and it makes sense that it would last 40 minutes and not 6 minutes. Furthermore, the person who said there was 40 minutes posted it on a site frequented by family members and none of them said it was false. And they would have spoken up if it were not true. Source: Posting on a website frequented by the families of the girls.

Monon bridge trail(resize)

The Monon High Bridge Trail before it gets to the north side of the bridge. The girls set off down this path on their fateful journey at 2 PM, 2-13.

There is talk of a car that can be barely seen in the lower left of the photo of Abbie on the bridge below the bridge. No one even knows if that is a car or not in that photo. Many people say they cannot make out a vehicle in the photo.

That road is a very little-used road that almost no one has even heard of, and it is quite hard to get to. My on the ground investigator was not able to find this road, but he is sure it is there. It appears to have been a road used by workers to maintain the bridge. A new rumor says that LE believes that the killer’s vehicle was parked at a trail head on the south side. Conclusion: Of course a car was used in this crime, and of course it was parked on the south side on a small road or truck trail that parallels the river. There is no other way this crime could have occurred. Source: Sleuths analyzing the photo of Libby on the bridge, people close to the family.

17270994_10202721686881519_1637152276_n

A possible vehicle can barely be seen circled in blue.

17274770_10202721695881744_974107941_n

The “vehicle” is very hard to make out in this photo, but I do see what appears to be a vehicle in that photo. At any rate, no one even knows if there is a vehicle in that photo or not. I think it is a vehicle, but that is not proven yet at all.

Man hiding and watching

Is that a man hiding and watching Abbie on the bridge? I have another photo taken recently and that black figure is simply not there.

Photo without man watching(rz)

A photo of the exact location of the “man in hiding” in the photo above taken days after the crime. Notice anything? No “man in hiding” anymore. Huh? If that was just some normal shadow effect, clearly it would have been seen there at all times. But here it is not there. I am starting to think that may be the killer hiding behind that tree near the north side of the bridge waiting for his victims.

Car with man circled

Another car photo with a possible man or human figure standing next to the car. The human figure is circled.

There is evidence from various statements from the family that Libby put up a huge fight. The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds because she had many small wounds on her body and face. In addition there is a new rumor now that states that Abbie fought back so hard that her nails were shredded. However, I believe they are confused and it was really Libby whose nails were torn up.

Unsub may well have scratch marks if Libby fought like a wildcat, which it seems she did. It addition, the throat slitting attack on Libby was much more severe than on Abbie and it was Libby who was beaten to the point where she was nearly unrecognizable, not both girls. The horrendous beating and the vicious throat attack imply that the killer was enraged with Libby for fighting back so hard, so he attacked her viciously in response. Conclusion: This is certainly true, at least the part about her fighting back violently. We know this by the condition of her body at the funeral. Source: People at the funeral, common sense.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet with the gun. However, the gun was not used to shoot the girls either to kill or wound them. These girls have no gunshot wounds. Conclusion: Now that we know the cause of death, there is no way a gun was used in this crime. There has never been the slightest rumor that these girls were attacked with gunshots.  Source: Common sense, witness reports.

There is a rumor that both girls had their throats slit. This is a strong rumor. Funerals were open casket, and both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit.

There is a rumor that Liberty was nearly decapitated. A recent version of this rumor said she was decapitated. However, if so, I do not understand how Unsub dragged a headless body down that trail, presumably with a human head in his hand. Further, Liberty’s head was very much on her body at the funeral. It is hard to imagine a funeral director putting someone’s head back on. This is a strong rumor as I have now heard many versions of it and no rumors saying that it is false.

It appears that the the wound to Abbie’s throat was not a particularly grievous wound. In other words, if he was trying to kill her, he did a poor job of it. If Libby did survive for at least 3 and up to 8 hours after she was homicidally attacked, her throat must not have been cut too grievously because otherwise she would not have survived for so long afterwards.

Conclusion: Of course the girls had their throats cut and this was the cause of death at least in the case of Liberty no doubt and a contributing factor in the death of Abbie. The rumor that the attack on Liberty’s neck was particularly vicious seems to be well supported as it keeps coming up and no one has said it was not true. Obviously, if Abbie survived as long as she did, the attack on her neck was not particularly grievous. Sources: Family members, people close to LE, people at the funeral.

There is a rumor saying that both girls were beaten so badly in their faces that they were nearly unrecognizable. However the latest version of this rumor says that only Libby was given this treatment. Conclusion: The best conclusion seems to be that Libby was the one who was severely beaten in the face. If Abbie was beaten in the face at all, it was not nearly so badly.  Source: Source close to the family.

This offense was clearly sexually motivated, and it seems quite clear that sexual assault occurred in the course of the crime. The very first rumors from the family members said both girls had been raped. However, a new rumor says that neither girl was raped and instead both girls were sexually mutilated, which is in fact much worse than simply being raped which is bad enough. We can only imagine what sort of mutilation was involved here.

We are dealing with a real bad guy here like Ted Bundy or Jack the Ripper. He not only kills girls, but he likes to cut them up too. This is not your ordinary rapist-killer, however it is common in serial killer rape-murders that the females’ bodies are at times mutilated in some way or another,  so if our Unsub is a serial, then this sort of attack is right up his alley.

Further, I feel that the mutilation may well have been done with the stick that he impaled in Abbie’s stomach before he left. This is a theory of my on the ground investigator, and I think he may well be correct. Furthermore, it solves the DNA problem for the killer. If a stick was used, there will be no DNA other than oak or pine DNA.

Conclusion: Sadly this theory is probably correct at least as far as mutilation goes. The very first statements by family members before this was even reported in the media was that the girls were “raped and mutilated.” Statements that they were mutilated have continued since then, including one very recent statement. Sadly, this is quite probably what was done to these girls. The theory of using the stick to mutilate the girls is on much shakier ground as it is pure speculation by my fellow sleuth and me.  Sources: Family members, people close to LE, general rumors, sources close to family.

There is uncertain information about the state of the bodies when found. Early statements were that Abbie was nude and Liberty was clothed. But if both girls were sexually mutilated, there was no way that Liberty was clothed. This killer is not about to put clothes back on a dead girl after he kills her. Conclusion: The theory that best explains the facts is that both girls were found nude. Sources: Rumors, sources close to the family.

There is conflicting information about the DNA collected at the scene. One report said the DNA is back, but there is no match to any known person.

Another says that the DNA that came back is that of Ivan Brumbaugh, the man who found the bodies. However, it is mere tough DNA, and it is is so weak that it was not even found at first and was only found two weeks later. Further, Brumbaugh states that he touched the bodies when he found them. In addition, if Brumbaugh is the killer, I would expect that they would have something better than a tiny bit of touch DNA, which is much more suggestive of his story about touching the bodies when he found them than that he is the killer.

Conclusion: No one knows! It does appear that DNA is back. That much seems to be certain. Whether it matches no one or Brumbaugh, no one knows. Further, the only information on the Brumbaugh theory comes form a man who is certain that Brumbaugh is the killer and has made a video to that effect. He also says he was the one who turned in Brumbaugh and that he is going to get the reward. This man has a large stake in Brumbaugh being the killer, so he is not a very good source. Until we get corroboration on the Brumbaugh rumor, all we know is that DNA is back and it either matches no one or it matches the man who found the bodies.

Source: A good source in Delphi, LE, media reports, a video maker on Youtube who is making a serious claim that Brumbaugh is the killer.

There is a rumor that boot prints were found at the scene. These boots are thought to have been worn by Unsub. This would make sense, as LE had some boots in an evidence bag a few days after the killings. They innocuously said that the boots had nothing to do with the crime, but they were probably lying. They probably did not recover Unsub’s actual boots themselves. Why would Unsub discard his boots at the crime scene and walk away shoeless? Makes no sense. It is more likely that LE matched the boot prints to that type and size of boot, indicating that Unsub was wearing boots of that make and size at the time of the crime.

There is a new rumor that Indiana Packers in town was raided and a pair of boots were seized from the site. This rumor is hard to understand. Who if anyone owned the boots that they seized? Why was this man not arrested? Conclusion: Of course boot prints were found at the site. We know that for sure now. And the type of boot was surely the one shown in the evidence bag. Sources: LE, source in Delphi.

The girls’ clothing was found in the creek. This was no doubt an attempt by Unsub to destroy any DNA evidence. The clothes were probably from both girls and both were no doubt found nude. Conclusion: Certainly true as it was reported by as news reporter at the scene. Source: Statements from reporter at the scene, common sense.

There is an incredible rumor that victim Abigail Williams, age 13, was pregnant at the time of the attack. It is now known that she definitely had a boyfriend, who was 16 years old. He has been located, and we know his name. Conclusion: At the moment this is a weak rumor, but it does explain some other things such as the spearing attack. It has only been stated by one person and has not been corroborated, but there have also been no reports saying it is false. Source: A sleuth.

There is very gruesome rumor saying that Abbie’s body was found with a pointed branch driven into her stomach. In other words, Unsub stood over Abbie and plunged the stick into her belly, pinioning her like a shishkebab. If this is true, it is even more incredible for her to survive the attack and even to crawl around with a stick in her body. Conclusion: As bizarre as it sounds, this rumor is quite possibly true. It has been repeated by a resident who posted crime scene photos on his page and corroborated by those who saw his photos. Source: A source close to the family, a Delphi resident who posted crime scene photos on his site and others who viewed these photos.

Tying together both of the shocking rumors is the suggestion that Unsub knew that Abbie was pregnant, and the stick attack was an attempt to kill the fetus too. Although this makes sense, one wonders how he could have possibly known that she was pregnant given that she was not very far along. Look at Abbie in the bridge photo. Does she look pregnant in that photo? So how would Unsub discover that she was pregnant? When people are under the control of a potentially murderous person who is assaulting them with what looks like homicidal intent, a lot of victims make various pleas to their attacker(s) to please spare their lives.

These take the form of appeals such as, “Please, no, I have a wife and three kids!…No, spare me, I am the sole breadwinner for my family of five!,” etc. I am sure there are many more. Victims make all sorts of pleas and engage in various manipulations of the person assaulting them in an attempt to stay alive. Most people do not want to die and will try all sorts of desperate measures in an attempt to not be murdered.

Sometimes they work, the attacker has a change of heart and decides to spare one or more victims. If Abbie pleaded with Unsub that he would be killing not just her but another potential life, then Unsub would have learned of her pregnancy. Conclusion: No one knows if the rumor that Abbie was pregnant are even true, but the stick rumor surely is. At any rate, there is no evidence tying the stick attack in with the possible pregnancy other than a speculated theory. This was merely the conclusion of a fellow sleuth, who is actually very good. And she is a woman too. Source: Speculation by me and a fellow sleuth.

Ron Logan, the poor soul whose land the bodies were found on, is still the source of much speculation that he is the murderer. There are websites where all they do is go over and over this man as a suspect. Quite a few people still believe he is the killer. I do not believe that Ron Logan is the killer, nor do I believe that he had anything to do with this crime. However, LE seems to think he may know more about this crime than he is letting on. This was apparently behind the apparent efforts to sweat him out by throwing him in jail for a probation violation for violating his drunk driving probation.

He was supposed to neither drink nor drive and he did both on the day of the killings. Logan did indeed go to the dump and many people think he was disposing of evidence there. However, he went there at 11:30 AM, so he could not possibly have been disposing of evidence as this was 3.5 hours before the girls were even abducted. Instead, Logan was in Lafayette 25 miles away buying tropical fish, but mostly drinking in a bar somewhere, probably some “old man’s tavern.” He is said to have been drinking beer. He lied about this to LE in order to cover up his probation violation, and LE was not happy that he lied to them.

However, Logan’s wife, who has a low opinion of him, states emphatically that he is innocent of this crime and that there are time-stamped photos of him, probably taken by surveillance cameras. These time-stamped photos cover the period of the abduction, so he could not have done this crime. Logan returned at 5:30 PM from Lafayette, where searchers asked for permission to search his land, which was granted.

One thing that kept Logan’s name on people’s tongue is that his property was thoroughly searched once and maybe even twice. They are even said to have searched the interior of his home in addition to his outbuildings. His car was also searched and it was even impounded for a while. The second search of Logan’s land certainly set tongues wagging ferociously.

However, my investigator has now determined that the media was quite wrong about this search. The media said Logan’s land was being searched, but the main search was of the Mears property across the street and of course the barn. The simply mistook the Mears’ land for Logan’s land. Logan’s property may well have been searched also, but the focus was clearly on the Mears property.

Conclusion: Of course Logan is innocent. The dump accusation is false and there is hard evidence that he was in Lafayette at the time of the abductions. His land was probably searched because this poor fellow had the misfortune of having two dead girls dumped on his land.  The much-ballyhooed second search of Logan’s land was falsely reported. It was actually the Mears property being primarily searched, not Logan’s. Almost everything accusatory you hear about Ron Logan regarding this crime is surely false. I really wish everyone would lay off this poor soul.

Probation officer report for Ron Logan

The entirety of LE’s case against Logan. People made much of this paper because it says he went to the dump. This apparently proved that he was disposing of articles after killing the girls. But he went to the dump at 11:30 AM, 3.5 hours before the girls were abducted, so unless Logan can time travel to the past, he could not have been disposing of murder items at the dump as the homicide or even abduction had not even taken place yet!

Ron Logan is indeed a drunk and a probation violator and I have learned that he has a shady past. 5-10 years ago, he had a girlfriend who he used to beat up on a regular basis. One time perhaps 7-8 years ago, he nearly beat this poor woman to death. He is also said to be quite strange sexually and he has freaked out a number of local woman with his sexual interests. He is also said to be very much into sex, but that can be said about millions of male Americans and quite a few females too.

Conclusion: Drunk, yes. Probation violator, yes. The other accusations are quite disturbing but he has never shown an abnormal interest in young girls such as pubescent teenage girls. I believe that Logan is a kinky drunk who likes to slap his women around. That’s not exactly optimal, but there are probably millions of men like this in the US. But there is huge difference with having the dubious qualities above and being a depraved rapist-mutilator-murderer of young teenage girls.

In addition to the rest of the evidence, Logan simply does not have it in him to do this crime in my opinion. His ex wife, who is not a Ron Logan fan at all, says that whatever else Ron is, he is not a murderer as she feels he is not capable of it. The social media circus around this man is most unsavory if not outright wrong. It’s time to pack up the Ron Logan theory and take it out to the dump where it belongs. Sources: A Delphi local who knew the ex girlfriend very well, Logan’s ex-wife.

There is a rumor saying that the case against Ron Logan is completely corrupt and is being led by a man who could care less if Logan did these crimes or not. All this man wants is to see Logan destroyed. This man is another local with whom Logan had a falling out. The man has money and has long wanted to buy Logan’s 40 acres, however, Logan was never willing to sell. Logan’s property is said to be choice land with waterfalls, etc.

This man figures if he can get Logan prosecuted for murder or at least have his life ruined by these allegations, then at some point, Logan will sell his land, possibly to pay his legal bills. This man figures that ruining Ron Logan will allow this man to somehow acquire Logan’s property. Conclusion: Weak rumor only from one source, which seems to be Ron Logan’s attorney. Impossible to prove until we get evidence but it is interesting. Source: Source close to the families.

Three other posts in this series:

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in Both the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

The Case for Linking the Delphi Murders with the Evansdale Murders

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

534 Comments

Filed under Crime, Girls, Law enforcement, Midwest, Regional, Serial Killers, USA

Resolved: Transgenderism Is a Mental Illness

RL: I work in mental health, and I have to diagnose people a lot, or at least offer my opinion of a diagnosis as I cannot give out legal DSM diagnoses . I even have to do differential diagnosis constantly where I have to figure out which of two diagnoses a person has. Believe me, these cases can be very confusing.

Magneto: In your opinion, is being transgender a mental illness? I mean, I am aware of the statistics that gays/trans people have a far higher suicide rate than heterosexuals, which would seem to suggest that it is a mental disorder.

But it’s kind of hard to think trans are mentally ill when you are looking at a fucking sexy ass Asian ladyboy who is far hotter than any real woman you’ve ever been with. To be honest, I hope trans continues to become more mainstream and more men do the transition into females. Fine with me, more food to choose from, in my opinion.

Ha ha. So, more pussy, even if it’s fake pussy, eh? I’m not sure I am down with that.

 

Is transgenderism a mental illness. Of course it is. In most cases anyway. And the rate has gone up 600X since the 1970’s. If it is some actual biological condition in the brain like sexual orientation, one would not expect the rate to skyrocket like that.

Rates of biological conditions don’t change much. The rate of homosexuality has probably been 3% for a very long time. Homosexuality appears to be an incurable biological condition that gets wired up in their brains somehow. It is a developmental disorder like left-handedness and a number of other things. Something goes wrong hormonally in utero, and the result is male or in some cases female homosexuality. As it is a developmental disorder, would you expect the rates of left-handedness to go up 600X? Real biological conditions just don’t work like that. Why would the hormonal aberrations that cause homosexuality have gone up 600X? They wouldn’t. They would stay at some consistent rate that is close the the rate of things going wrong in utero.

Hence except in a few cases, transgenderism is not a biological disorder. I really feel for these boys who feel like girls from age 2 or whatever. I am willing to consider a biological disorder there.

Yet a biological disorder can also be a mental illness. Schizophrenia, Bipolar Disorder and even OCD look like biological disorders, and all are also mental illnesses.

These seems to be a “fad” disorder that a lot of folks are developing on their own in a similar way to how these therapists create mental illness in previously healthy girls who got molested. It’s a cool way of going crazy.

Studies in China show that ~3% of the population feels as if they are the opposite sex. So if we let this thing explode, we could end up with a 3% tranny population. In the past, these people became homosexuals (in itself a sort of transgenderism) or perhaps feminine men and masculine women.

When I was growing up in the 1970’s, we had this idea that all men and women have masculine and feminine components, even heterosexual ones. Just because a man has a feminine side or a woman a masculine one doesn’t mean he is not a man and she is not a woman, nor does it mean that either one is a homosexual.

I have a pretty strong feminine side myself, as many people used to think I was gay or bi. I’m not a Man’s Man at all. I’m not macho enough for that. I’m a Ladies’ Man who prefers the company of women. Most Ladies’ Men are not as masculine as Man’s Men.

I worry that if I were growing up today, I might have been sucked into this nonsense and decided that I was a tranny and I was really a woman or something insane like that.

If a man thinks he is a woman or a woman thinks she is a man, that is known as a delusion. It’s just not true. So they’re psychotic in a sense. And the treatment (sex change operation) doesn’t appear to make them any mentally healthier. So why do it? If the treatment doesn’t help the person, we stop doing it.

13% of people who have sex changes actually re-transition. So men who turn into women turn back into men, and women who think they are men turn back into women. If it was a real condition, one would not expect to see that. Homosexuals don’t suddenly decide to be straight. Left-handed people don’t decide to be right-handed one day. Transgenderism in childhood is highly transitory. 73% of transgender children are cured by adulthood. That is, by the time they are 18, they have abandoned the idea that they are the opposite sex. Biological conditions do not have such high spontaneous cure rates.

There have been quite a few spontaneous cures of transgenderism even in adulthood. There are a number of cases where a man was in therapy for transgenderism, and he showed up for therapy one day and announced that he’s no longer transgender. He’s really a man and realizes that and feels like one now. Then he gets up and walks out of the office. Just like that.

30 Comments

Filed under Anxiety Disorders, Asia, Biology, China, Gender Studies, Girls, Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Mental Illness, Mood Disorders, OCD, Psychology, Psychopathology, Psychotherapy, Psychotic Disorders, Regional, Schizophrenia, Science, Sex, Social Problems, Sociology

Issues of Consent and Outcome in Victims of Child Molestation

It is not necessarily true that all child molestation is completely nonconsensual or that the child never enjoys it. These facts are difficult for society to contemplate in our one size fits all view of the crime. I would agree that children cannot consent to sex with adults, even if they agree with it at the time, and there are a few cases where they do. It seems like most of the time, the children don’t really enjoy what’s being done to them or they are just confused. However, there are some cases where the children, often older ones, quite enjoyed the experience. I don’t think that makes it right, and it needs to be illegal whether the child enjoys it or not simply because it’s wrong. But it’s important to see that this issue is more confusing that it is usually made out to be.

I dated a woman once who had been molested at age 8 by a young man in head of a youth group at church. She had gotten over it completely. This is another difficult fact that many find hard to stomach. Not everyone is damaged permanently or in the longterm when they are molested. Now some definitely are, the long-term effects of this are serious with enough kids that we can document it in studies.

However, I have known a number of women who were molested as girls, and they all told me that they just got over it. How? They just decided that they did not want to let this ruin their lives, so they worked their way out of it. But one woman told me, “It’s hard because it feels good. The abuse feels good, but it’s wrong, and that’s hard to make sense of.” So children can find this physically pleasurable, which makes the issue even more confusing.

There are fathers who molested their daughters and seemed to be carrying on a love affair with them. It was quite clear that the daughter was definitely “in love with Daddy.” Now one could argue that even if a daughter is in love with Daddy, that still does not make child molestation correct. For one thing, society strongly disapproves.

These girls are often older, 9-12 or 10-12. However, in many cases, the girl grows up to adulthood and then has second thoughts and decides she was molested, harmed or taken advantage of. She develops a lot of psychological symptoms and is angry at the father-daughter sex.

There was a very famous series of child porn videos out there, some of the most famous ever distributed. The girl had some well-known name. The videos are named “Tracy” or whatever her name was. Of course I have not seen them. It’s illegal to even look at such a thing for even one second if you can believe that, and that stuff is almost impossible to find anyway. Right now, almost all child porn is on the Dark Net, and I would imagine there is little if any on the real Internet, so your chances of stumbling across it are almost nil.

But it appears quite a few people on the Net did view those tapes. I have seen forums where people talk about these tapes, and many of the men commenting on them do not even appear to be pedophiles. That’s quite possible, as you don’t have to be a pedophile to enjoy such material, which once again is going to be very confusing for a lot of people. Many non-pedophilic men can be aroused by such material also. However, anyone seriously collecting lots of child porn on their drive is probably a pedophile. These movies were also popular with hebephiles, as the girl may have been ~11-12 in some of the movies.

What is shocking about those movies is that the girl is reportedly enjoying herself and she is clearly quite in love with Daddy. Now that doesn’t make it right, but it’s interesting. Anyway, she became famous at some point as a child porn star, and her name was outed, so people knew about her and what she did. After she became an adult, she was ashamed of being a famous child porn star and she decided she had been molested, abused and taken advantage of and developed psychological symptoms.

Her love for her father also turned to hatred. The father was arrested at some point after the tapes were made. He was apparently not a pedophile at all. This is typically the case with familial molesters. Familial molesters are usually not pedophiles. These are called non-pedophilic molesters and they account for 92% of all molestations.

You are only diagnosed a pedophile if you mostly or only aroused by children and have little or no interest in adults. Most familial molesters are not much more aroused by little girls than the rest of us are. Instead of being pedophiles, they are best seen simply as criminals.

They are doing this for other reasons. They often have low morals and the sexual abuse occurs along with physical and psychological abuse as a general pattern of a power-hungry and controlling men who is best seen as simply a “bad person” as opposed to a sexual deviant.

Other reasons are often simply sexual. We also need to consider a common line about men a number of girlfriends have told me and that is, “Men will screw anything.” Unfortunately, this is true and even heterosexual men will have sex with other men, little girls, old ladies and gosh I don’t know, cored out melons and holes the wall I suppose. Men have their preferences, but the male sex drive is very strong and a lot of men are not too particular about which sexual object they utilize to meet their needs.

Getting back to the story about the famous child porn star, the girl’s father was a very handsome man, a bodybuilder very popular with women. He was a non-pedophilic molester. About his motivations, he said he was just in love with his daughter. Be that as it may, the court did not buy it, and he got 30 years in prison. The punishment may fit, as society is simply not ok with fathers having sex with their 10-12 year old daughters and in particular making movies out of it.

A number of men were arrested for “downloading” her videos. This is a misnomer, and downloading often just means “looked at it on a computer screen.” But many men collected her videos. About 1,500 men were found who had collected her videos and had been convicted in court over this. After the girl was an adult, she started suing the men who collected her videos. Many men were not sued at all. Instead she went after the men who had a lot of money. One man was sued for $1.5 million. I think she should have gotten money out of him, but that seems rather excessive considering the crime. And I wonder if being found guilty criminally and civilly is not double jeopardy.

At any rate, the take-home point here is that even if uncommonly children may enjoy or even consent to the molestation, it’s quite typical for them to have second feelings about it as they get older and a change of heart as this woman experienced, along with development of a lot of psychological symptoms, is quite common. So molestation is rarely if ever beneficial to children, and in many cases it is harmful even in those cases where they enjoyed it at the time because those feelings often go away as they get older.

Even in the cases I have known where women simply got over it, one would argue that nevertheless the molestation was not a good thing to have happen to them. The fact that some people can get over the bad things that happen to them does not mean that what happened to them were not bad things. Bad things are bad things whether you get over them or not.

20 Comments

Filed under Child Porn, Crime, Girls, Incest, Law, Lolitas, Pedophilia, Pornography, Psychology, Psychopathology, Sex, Social Problems, Sociology

How Many Fixated Pedophiles in the US?

Concerned Citizen: A man in a white Ford cargo van with no windows, approached a child last Tuesday (Feb. 14), after they had been let off the bus. The man reportedly asked the Caston Elementary student if they wanted some Valentine’s Day candy. The man is described as a thin white male in his late forties to early fifties with curly brown hair and a scruffy beard. He was wearing a gray t-shirt. Caston is only 45 minutes away from Delphi.This bothers me, because things like this don’t happen often around these parts.

How old was the girl? Do they have junior high in that area? If it’s K-6, she can’t be older than 11. Geez. Anyway, offering candy won’t work for a girl past 13 or so. It probably would not even work on a 12 year old. I know 12 year old girls. They are extremely smart and very suspicious and wary of men. They leap in maturity from 11 to 12 is pretty amazing. 12 is when abstract thinking kicks in.

I am not sure people realize how many creepy men are out there. Let’s put it this way. There are a lot of more sexually weird men out there than you think.

Up to 1% of the adult male population may be preferential or fixated pedophiles. Other figures put it at .1% With the higher figure, there 1.15 million adult male pedophiles in the US. That’s a lot of men. These people who say they want to kill all the pedos need to realize that they would killing 1 million American men! Pretty crazy. Even with the lower figure, there’s 115,000 fixated preferential pedophile men in the US. So if you wanted to kill them all, you would have to kill 100,000 people.

I don’t think most of them abduct in this creepy way though. Usually they try to get access to girls via employment, friends, etc.

3 Comments

Filed under Gender Studies, Girls, Man World, Pedophilia, Regional, Sex, USA