Category Archives: Law enforcement

Updated April 26: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

This is a preliminary version of my long-awaited update. However, it is not completed. Most particularly, the new photos have not been added but should be added later on today. But a lot of new  text has been added including things that have never been revealed in the media. I hope this is useful to you (I don’t want to say I hope you enjoy it as that sounds terrible), and I will continue working on this piece later on today. For now, there is a bottle of whiskey calling me name in the kitchen. Over and out!

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that cannot be determined from this crime, as it was not a pedophilic offense. Pedophilic crimes only refer to those against victims who are 12 years old and under.

A hebephilic crime would target a victim of 11-14 years of age. As you can see, there is some overlap around the tweens. Instead of being a pedophilic crime, this was a hebephilic offense. And while the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Pedophilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls 12-under.

Hebephilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls ~11-14.

Age of victims: 13 and 14

You do the math.

Thank you so much for this. 

Note to commenters 2: I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources.

How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is a new update containing lots of new information, mostly in the form of photos, including the first ever published photos of the actual crime scene! This should be a blockbuster post.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and LE. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. I am getting my very best information from people who are close to the girls’ families. Of all of the rumors and information I get, these are some of the best. Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

My Musings on This Case

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself. Source: My speculation based on the nature of the offense and the obvious skill involved.

Unsub is 5’10, 180 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch.  Source: Expert on CNN, paunch obvious in photo.

In my opinion, Unsub’s age is ~60. LE’s latest estimate is that he is 40-50 years old, but that’s seems too young to me. At the very least, that style of pants is outdated, and nowadays is only worn by men over 40 in that area. Conclusion: Anywhere between ~40-60, with an emphasis on the high end. t Sources: LE, sleuths commenting on the photo.

16681525_10155025082032118_8397740859158404533_n

Excellent drawing of Unsub from an LE artist.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Source: Gun is obviously visible in photograph. Left-handedness concluded from the holstered gun pointing backwards on the right side.

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Photo clearly shows a semiautomatic .911 or 45 mm handgun holstered on his right, which means he is left-handed. If you cannot see that obvious gun there, I do not know what to say to you.

Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. Source: LE.

Unsub is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing. Part of this is no doubt to disguise himself, but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body where the girls could leave scratch marks if the girls fight back hard, although they still could scratch up his face pretty well. Source: LE, my own theorizing and conjecture, common sense.

tda8c7f81d02f_fbase

In my opinion, this is the type of cap that Unsub is wearing.

What LE refers to as a fanny pack is actually what is called a deer kit. This contains knives, scissors, etc. for cutting up the deer after you kill it. So he is a hunter and he is going out to hunt these girls, and it appears he might be ready to do something terrible to their bodies. Source: A fellow sleuth researched it and discovered that that is actually a deer kit such as a hunter would use. It is too flat to be a fanny pack. Unsub must be a hunter. I doubt if he is a non-hunter because no non-hunter would know about a deer kit.

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GIF image of Unsub photos run together.

There has been much talk about whether or not there were two murderers or one. Initial statements by LE implied that there were two killers, but they have not made any statements to that effect in quite some time. Conclusion: At the moment, the two killers theory is pretty dead and it looks like LE is leaning towards one killer. Source: A variety of LE statements and lack thereof.

There have been persistent rumors since even before the case was released to the media (these early rumors coming from family members) that Abbie survived until the next day, 2-14. There were different rumors, including that she was found alive but died on the way to the hospital, that she was alive when found but died soon after, that the coroner said she survived the attack but died of hypothermia in the woods, that her body was still warm when found, etc.

These rumors started almost instantly from people close to the family. We now have some excellent information that she somehow survived the attack and tried to crawl a ways away until she died. I am still getting reports that Abbie died on 2-14, and her body was still warm when found from some of my best sources close to the families, so this version is still strong.

Conclusion: The best analysis now is that Abbie did indeed survive the initial attack and died at some point later on on 2-14. The thing we do not know is how long she survived after she was attacked. She lingered for anywhere from 5-7 hours, which is my theory, and actually, that is nothing short of miraculous considering the gravity of her wounds. Sources: Rumors, people close the family, people close to LE.

Rumors from the search party stated that the girls had to have been moved since the dump site found on 2-14 had been searched on 2-13. The searchers were adamant that they had searched the dump site thoroughly on 2-13.

There is now evidence stating that searchers ran a thermal imager over the area on 2-13 (perhaps with an aircraft?), and while there were plenty of living things down there, none of them were human. In other words, the only things alive in that woods when the imager was run were wild animals. One would think that if the girls had been put there by 4 PM or so on 2-13 that the bodies would have shown up on the thermal imager.

In addition, there is now excellent information that the girls were removed immediately to a structure nearby where they were tortured, raped and homicidally attacked over a period of at at least ~12 hours. LE now accepts that they were removed and returned to site. Also they had to be returned after 2:30 AM when all of the searchers left and no doubt before dawn in the morning as returning them in the daylight would have been stupid and crazy. Dawn was at 7 AM that day, so they had to be returned between 2:30-7 AM. Sources: People close to the search party, people close to the families, leak from LE.

dump spot with FBI(rz)

The actual body dump area with Ron Logan and an elegantly dressed FBI gumshoe. Dig the long tails on that jacket. Stylin!

Truck at cemetary on edge of dump site(RZ)

Truck parked at SW corner of cemetery at the edge of the trash dump ravine.

Dump site from road to cemetary(resize)

Trash dump ravine from the road to the cemetery. The killer drove down this road from the barn to the cemetery, then to the cemetery, then through the SE gate to Ron Logan’s land and the trail where he dragged the bodies. The entire distance from barn to beginning of trail is no more than 200 yards.

Cemetery on edge of ravine(resize)

The SW side of the cemetery near the trash dump ravine.

Drag area(resize)

This is the actual trail down which the bodies were dragged very early AM 2-14.

Part of cemetary near edge of ravine dump site(resize)

SW corner of the cemetery near the edge of the trash dump ravine.

Trash at dump site(resize)

More trash at the trash dump site on the SW end of the cemetery.

 

Drag area(resize)

This is apparently the trash dump site on the SW corner of the cemetery, a ravine where people throw trash. At first we thought this was where he dumped the bodies, but then we found the SE gate and the trail and it all made better sense

Dump site(resize)

This is the trash dump site on the ravine in the SW corner where people throw trash. Initially thought to be the body dump site, we realized that that was not possible. My investigator could not walk down that ravine in daylight and he wasn’t dragging two bodies either. We concluded that there was no way for the killer to drag two bodies down  this unnavigable ravine in the middle of night. You can’t even walk down it in the daytime with no bodies. How do you do it at 3 AM dragging two heavy bodies. Just forget it. 

gate at SE corner of cemetary(rz)

Gate at the SE corner of the cemetery. The killer drove down a road to this gate early in the AM, opened the gate and drove 10 feet on Ron Logan’s horse pasture to the beginning of a trail to the dump site. He dragged the bodies down this trail in the middle of the night.

3 point turn SW of cemetary bodies dumped to right near stick pile(resize)

This is a three point turn SW of the cemetery leading to a ravine where people throw trash. Originally we thought he threw the bodies down here or dragged the bodies down the slope, but the slope is too steep to hike down, much less drag two bodies at night. And tossing the bodies over would not put them at the dump site. Later we focused on the SE corner of the cemetery where there is an unlocked gate leading to Ron Logan’s horse pasture. 10 feet further, a trail begins down the slope. This trail takes you directly to the dump site. So the killer must have driven to this spot, parked and dragged the bodies down the trail to the dump site. This is doable late at night, though difficult.

There is a rumor about how the girls were moved to the dump site. The rumor said that searchers followed drag marks, presumably left by the girls, to the dump site. So the killer returned the girls to the forest where they were abducted somehow. But this might not be difficult as he kept them alive for at least 12 hours in a barn across the road from Logan’s property. No searchers would have gone near Ron Logan’s outbuildings as they were located far from the search zone, so he had no fear of being caught.

Hence the killer was torturing, raping and homicidally attacking the girls at the same time that searches were ongoing for 10 hours straight. But from the kill site, the killer had a perfect view of the area and he could determine when the searches were going on and when they stopped. Therefore, he knew when the searches had stopped at 2:30 AM and he returned them sometime between then and 7 AM that morning.

The kill site is only 200 yards from the cemetery. He took the girls from the kill site to the cemetery and drove to the SE corner of the cemetery. There is a gate there that is open. When you walk through the gate, you are on Ron Logan’s horse pasture. The trail that the girls were dragged down to the dumpsite starts only 10 feet from the cemetery gate.

It is not known how the killer kept the girls quiet, but perhaps he terrorized the girls with a gun. Surely he must have bound and gagged them, probably very soon after he said “Down the hill,” in the tape. They were definitely bound when they were kept in the barn. It also makes sense that he would have kept them alive during this time. The killer remained with the girls the whole time they were in the barn committing his crimes right under the noses of the search parties!

I believe that the homicidal attack on the girls, no doubt the throat slitting, may have been done not long before they were dumped on the hill. One more thing we need to note is that there is no way the killer dumped those bodies there on 2-13 or even up until 2:30 AM on 2-14, as there were loud and obvious searchers with their shouts and lights in the area. You don’t dump bodies right in the middle of a search party that is looking for just those bodies. No one does that.

Yet somehow he dumped those bodies there between 2:30 AM-7:40 AM on 2-14.

There is a rumor says that the killer thrust a large pointed wooden stick into Abbie’s stomach. This brutal spearing must have occurred at the dump site, especially since even that spearing somehow did not kill Abbie! In fact, she survived for at least 3 and maybe 7 hours afterwards! He would not have speared her before being placed at the dump site because it makes no sense to drag a girl with a spear in her down a hill. Further, Abbie survived the spearing, which means she must have been speared at the dump site.

Obviously they were dragged down the hill, placed at the dump site, and then the killer speared Abbie in the stomach as one final Parthian thrust shows the profound rage, hatred and contempt that this killer must have felt for his victims.

Source: Leaks from LE, people close to the families, my own theorizing. The theory that he removed them from the site to the barn is quite solid, and I believe it is fact, in addition to the location where they were driven in the early AM to the trail where they were dragged, which I also regard as fact.

Fence around cemetary road to Ron Logans(resize)

Fence around cemetery on the road to Ron Logan’s horse pasture at the SE end of the cemetery at a gate. The killer drove this route very early in the AM on route to body dump.

Barn crime scene(rz)

This is the photo that initially led us to consider the barn as a kill site. What is that cop with a dog doing there? That’s a crime scene, and a bad one. We noticed this photo of police with dogs searching the barn and put two and two together. We knew an outbuilding had been used, but we had no idea where it was. The media reports got this all wrong, describing this photo as a search of Ron Logan’s land, when actually it was a search of the Mears property, probably especially the barn.

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – -the barn on the Mears property across the street. Here is a side view.

Barn3(RZ)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Flowers in the barn. This, in addition to the photos of dogs searching the barn and my investigator’s discussions with Mears family members, solidified my conclusion that this was the kill site. No one knows exactly where the girls were killed. Perhaps it was here?

Barn4(rz)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Here is the ill-fated barn. Even in daytime, you cannot see inside the barn. My investigator was only able to see objects at the very front of the barn. Everything else was hidden. You could also pull a car in there as it is big enough to fit a car. The car also would not be seen. Barn is about 50 yards from the road but from the road, visibility into the barn even in daylight is about zero.

Barn1(RZ)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Interior of the ill-fated barn. As you can see, it is quite spacious inside. Also people inside are invisible to those on the outside even in daylight. Cloudy weather is worse.

Barn5(RZ)

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. One last photo of the barn, this time from inside the barn. As you can see, you can easily pull a car into that barn.

Someone posted photos supposedly from the crime scene on a website frequented by Delphi residents. The photo was quickly taken down, but a number of people saw it anyway. The photo shows the two dead girls and the coroner. The person who posted the photo had some text saying that the bodies are positioned in an odd way. The only sense that he could make out of this odd posing of the bodies is that he thought it might have been some sort of a ritual, possibly a Satanic ritual.

I believe this is called “posing” the bodies and is a favorite with serial killers. There are no details on how the girls were positioned. Conclusion: This is probably a good rumor as people posted what they saw on the site on a family members’ site, and none of the family members said that the information was false. Source: A number of people who saw the Delphi resident’s web page.

The crime scene does not make sense in this case. The girls seem to have been attacked soon after Unsub said, “Go down the hill.” The entire south side of the creek was roped off as a crime scene. I do not feel that this is a homicide site; instead, I feel there was some sort of an altercation here as he tried to put them in a vehicle he had placed there for this purpose.

People are now saying that the whole attack was over soon after it began, and there are reports saying that the 6-minute audiotape contains the horrifying record of a homicide. This would imply that the girls were murdered very quickly. But the logistics of the case do not support a homicidal attack soon after abduction, at least in the case of Abbie.

Reports that the crime was over quickly after it began do not make sense for a variety of reasons. Furthermore, assuming Abbie’s body was still warm when found, if she was murdered at 4 PM, how does she linger for 17 1/2 hours until the next day? Simple, it didn’t happen.

However, there is some brutal audio and perhaps video that Liberty recorded on her phone. Some of the audio was recorded right before the abduction, and there is 40 minutes after that. The audio right after the recording of the man saying, “Down the hill,” records the girls screaming.

Does that imply that the girls were attacked soon after being told to go down the hill? Yes.

There is a big question about the phone.  After 5:30 PM and for several hours, Liberty’s phone was pinging all over town which means it was not in Liberty’s possession. The question about the phone is whether or not it was recovered. The latest and best theory seems to be that Liberty’s phone was not recovered and all of the audio and video was taken from the Iphone Cloud. There is an option on an Iphone to immediately save all data to the Cloud.

If she threw the phone in the woods, it should have been found by now.

OK, so why was Liberty’s phone pinging all over town for several hours during the search? This would make sense if the phone was in the woods, but it appears now that the phone was not in the woods. So why did it ping all over town?

The killer had the two girls in his remote structure soon after they were abducted. If the structure was not far from the dump site, the phone could have been on Liberty’s body while she was in the structure as Logan’s property is near the forest where they were taken. Perhaps in the process of disrobing her, the killer found Liberty’s cellphone. Perhaps it was dead by this point.

Under this scenario, Unsub either disposed of or destroyed the phone after it died, and this is why it has never been found. Perhaps he smashed it to bits. Perhaps he discarded it in the garbage somewhere. Or even better yet, he threw it in the river. Conclusion: It now appears that the phone was indeed not recovered, but that is not as solid of a fact as we would like it to be. Source: People close to the search party, people close to the case.

Fallen tree on north side hiding spot for Unsub(resize & rotate)

A large tree down the slope from the north side of the bridge. We believe the killer may have hid here lying in wait for the girls to start across the bridge, at which point, he followed them from north to south and essentially trapped them on the south end of the bridge.

Cigars(RZ)

A pack of cigars maybe left by a hunter under the tree where the killer may have lay in wait for his victims. The cigars are not the killer’s. My investigator told me that the entire area seemed to have been gone over with a fine tooth comb by LE. It seems that LE was suspicious of this area on the north side just as we are. Perhaps their theory is the same as ours.

beginning of bridge on north side(resize & rotate)

The beginning of the bridge on the north side. We believe that the killer accessed the bridge from the north side like all hikers do and set off down the trail to the north side of the bridge, where he descended and lay in wait for his victims.

The south side of the river was roped off as a crime scene, not the north side. Yes, the tape was removed two days later, but so what? This is standard procedure in a park. But if the south side was not a homicide scene but instead some other sort of scene such as an abduction scene, it could have been gone over quickly, and there would be no reason to keep it roped off. The girls were not attacked much at the dump site, as the dump site was described as pristine. Conclusion: The best theory right now is that the south side was the scene of some scuffle probably as he was trying to tie them up and get them in his vehicle. The best evidence now suggests that the girls were killed in the barn across the street from Ron Logan’s property. Sources: LE, media reports, sleuths.

The FBI interviewed a man who had property on the south side of the creek. They asked about his gun(s), his vehicle(s), and whether there were any outbuildings. From this we can conclude that the FBI believes that a gun, a vehicle and an outbuilding were used in this crime.

In addition, the notion of the barn as kill site fits well into the very earliest statements from family members 1.5 hours before the media even reported the crime saying that the girls were found raped and killed in a cabin. Since the girls were found dumped in the forest, the rumor about being found in a cabin made no sense.

But now there is a way that we tie this all together. Sure, the cabin or structure played a serious role in the crime, but not as a dump site. Instead, the cabin (actually a barn) was the place where they were abused, raped and killed! So the Cabin Theory (actually a Barn Theory) makes a new appearance, this time making a lot more sense. Conclusion: The Cabin Theory is fact, except the kill site was a barn and not a cabin. As the cabin talk started up right away, this also implies that LE found the kill site very soon after they found the bodies. Sources: Family members, people close to the family, leaks from LE.

There is a rumor stating that LE says that Liberty could have escaped several times, but she chose to stay by her best friend’s side to the end. In real life, they were inseparable. That means that Libby is truly a hero for giving her life in order not to abandon her friend. And it makes this crime even more sad. Conclusion: It is probably true. It is hard to understand why LE would make up such a story, and LE would be the only people to know. Source: Person close to the family.

There is indeed a voice recording of Unsub saying, “Go down the hill.” The next thing you hear on the tape is the girls screaming. This is part of an audiotape heroically recorded by Libby by turning on the recorder on her phone as the girls were being abducted. It has also been implied, terrifyingly, that the audio is actually a recording of the rapes and murders. Conclusion: The four words are fact. From the behavior of LE, it does seem as if something quite terrible is on the rest of that audio. Source: People close to the family.

There is a rumor that says that there is not 6 minutes of video/audio but instead there is 40 minutes of video/audio! Someone posted this on a site that the families frequent, and no family members asked to take it down for being inaccurate, so there is something to it. I believe there is little more video, and most of that 40 minutes is audio. And I have heard that it’s ugly and nasty stuff, so terrifying that LE does not want to release it. Strong rumor.

Conclusion: Almost certainly true. Surely there is nasty stuff on that audio, and it makes sense that it would last 40 minutes and not 6 minutes. Furthermore, the person who said there was 40 minutes posted it on a site frequented by family members and none of them said it was false. And they would have spoken up if it were not true. Source: Posting on a website frequented by the families of the girls.

Monon bridge trail(resize)

The Monon High Bridge Trail before it gets to the north side of the bridge. The girls set off down this path on their fateful journey at 2 PM, 2-13.

There is talk of a car that can be barely seen in the lower left of the photo of Abbie on the bridge below the bridge. No one even knows if that is a car or not in that photo. Many people say they cannot make out a vehicle in the photo.

That road is a very little-used road that almost no one has even heard of, and it is quite hard to get to. My on the ground investigator was not able to find this road, but he is sure it is there. It appears to have been a road used by workers to maintain the bridge. A new rumor says that LE believes that the killer’s vehicle was parked at a trail head on the south side. Conclusion: Of course a car was used in this crime, and of course it was parked on the south side on a small road or truck trail that parallels the river. There is no other way this crime could have occurred. Source: Sleuths analyzing the photo of Libby on the bridge, people close to the family.

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A possible vehicle can barely be seen circled in blue.

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The “vehicle” is very hard to make out in this photo, but I do see what appears to be a vehicle in that photo. At any rate, no one even knows if there is a vehicle in that photo or not. I think it is a vehicle, but that is not proven yet at all.

Man hiding and watching

Is that a man hiding and watching Abbie on the bridge? I have another photo taken recently and that black figure is simply not there.

Photo without man watching(rz)

A photo of the exact location of the “man in hiding” in the photo above taken days after the crime. Notice anything? No “man in hiding” anymore. Huh? If that was just some normal shadow effect, clearly it would have been seen there at all times. But here it is not there. I am starting to think that may be the killer hiding behind that tree near the north side of the bridge waiting for his victims.

Car with man circled

Another car photo with a possible man or human figure standing next to the car. The human figure is circled.

There is evidence from various statements from the family that Libby put up a huge fight. The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds because she had many small wounds on her body and face. In addition there is a new rumor now that states that Abbie fought back so hard that her nails were shredded. However, I believe they are confused and it was really Libby whose nails were torn up.

Unsub may well have scratch marks if Libby fought like a wildcat, which it seems she did. It addition, the throat slitting attack on Libby was much more severe than on Abbie and it was Libby who was beaten to the point where she was nearly unrecognizable, not both girls. The horrendous beating and the vicious throat attack imply that the killer was enraged with Libby for fighting back so hard, so he attacked her viciously in response. Conclusion: This is certainly true, at least the part about her fighting back violently. We know this by the condition of her body at the funeral. Source: People at the funeral, common sense.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet with the gun. However, the gun was not used to shoot the girls either to kill or wound them. These girls have no gunshot wounds. Conclusion: Now that we know the cause of death, there is no way a gun was used in this crime. There has never been the slightest rumor that these girls were attacked with gunshots.  Source: Common sense, witness reports.

There is a rumor that both girls had their throats slit. This is a strong rumor. Funerals were open casket, and both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit.

There is a rumor that Liberty was nearly decapitated. A recent version of this rumor said she was decapitated. However, if so, I do not understand how Unsub dragged a headless body down that trail, presumably with a human head in his hand. Further, Liberty’s head was very much on her body at the funeral. It is hard to imagine a funeral director putting someone’s head back on. This is a strong rumor as I have now heard many versions of it and no rumors saying that it is false.

It appears that the the wound to Abbie’s throat was not a particularly grievous wound. In other words, if he was trying to kill her, he did a poor job of it. If Libby did survive for at least 3 and up to 8 hours after she was homicidally attacked, her throat must not have been cut too grievously because otherwise she would not have survived for so long afterwards.

Conclusion: Of course the girls had their throats cut and this was the cause of death at least in the case of Liberty no doubt and a contributing factor in the death of Abbie. The rumor that the attack on Liberty’s neck was particularly vicious seems to be well supported as it keeps coming up and no one has said it was not true. Obviously, if Abbie survived as long as she did, the attack on her neck was not particularly grievous. Sources: Family members, people close to LE, people at the funeral.

There is a rumor saying that both girls were beaten so badly in their faces that they were nearly unrecognizable. However the latest version of this rumor says that only Libby was given this treatment. Conclusion: The best conclusion seems to be that Libby was the one who was severely beaten in the face. If Abbie was beaten in the face at all, it was not nearly so badly.  Source: Source close to the family.

This offense was clearly sexually motivated, and it seems quite clear that sexual assault occurred in the course of the crime. The very first rumors from the family members said both girls had been raped. However, a new rumor says that neither girl was raped and instead both girls were sexually mutilated, which is in fact much worse than simply being raped which is bad enough. We can only imagine what sort of mutilation was involved here.

We are dealing with a real bad guy here like Ted Bundy or Jack the Ripper. He not only kills girls, but he likes to cut them up too. This is not your ordinary rapist-killer, however it is common in serial killer rape-murders that the females’ bodies are at times mutilated in some way or another,  so if our Unsub is a serial, then this sort of attack is right up his alley.

Further, I feel that the mutilation may well have been done with the stick that he impaled in Abbie’s stomach before he left. This is a theory of my on the ground investigator, and I think he may well be correct. Furthermore, it solves the DNA problem for the killer. If a stick was used, there will be no DNA other than oak or pine DNA.

Conclusion: Sadly this theory is probably correct at least as far as mutilation goes. The very first statements by family members before this was even reported in the media was that the girls were “raped and mutilated.” Statements that they were mutilated have continued since then, including one very recent statement. Sadly, this is quite probably what was done to these girls. The theory of using the stick to mutilate the girls is on much shakier ground as it is pure speculation by my fellow sleuth and me.  Sources: Family members, people close to LE, general rumors, sources close to family.

There is uncertain information about the state of the bodies when found. Early statements were that Abbie was nude and Liberty was clothed. But if both girls were sexually mutilated, there was no way that Liberty was clothed. This killer is not about to put clothes back on a dead girl after he kills her. Conclusion: The theory that best explains the facts is that both girls were found nude. Sources: Rumors, sources close to the family.

There is conflicting information about the DNA collected at the scene. One report said the DNA is back, but there is no match to any known person.

Another says that the DNA that came back is that of Ivan Brumbaugh, the man who found the bodies. However, it is mere tough DNA, and it is is so weak that it was not even found at first and was only found two weeks later. Further, Brumbaugh states that he touched the bodies when he found them. In addition, if Brumbaugh is the killer, I would expect that they would have something better than a tiny bit of touch DNA, which is much more suggestive of his story about touching the bodies when he found them than that he is the killer.

Conclusion: No one knows! It does appear that DNA is back. That much seems to be certain. Whether it matches no one or Brumbaugh, no one knows. Further, the only information on the Brumbaugh theory comes form a man who is certain that Brumbaugh is the killer and has made a video to that effect. He also says he was the one who turned in Brumbaugh and that he is going to get the reward. This man has a large stake in Brumbaugh being the killer, so he is not a very good source. Until we get corroboration on the Brumbaugh rumor, all we know is that DNA is back and it either matches no one or it matches the man who found the bodies.

Source: A good source in Delphi, LE, media reports, a video maker on Youtube who is making a serious claim that Brumbaugh is the killer.

There is a rumor that boot prints were found at the scene. These boots are thought to have been worn by Unsub. This would make sense, as LE had some boots in an evidence bag a few days after the killings. They innocuously said that the boots had nothing to do with the crime, but they were probably lying. They probably did not recover Unsub’s actual boots themselves. Why would Unsub discard his boots at the crime scene and walk away shoeless? Makes no sense. It is more likely that LE matched the boot prints to that type and size of boot, indicating that Unsub was wearing boots of that make and size at the time of the crime.

There is a new rumor that Indiana Packers in town was raided and a pair of boots were seized from the site. This rumor is hard to understand. Who if anyone owned the boots that they seized? Why was this man not arrested? Conclusion: Of course boot prints were found at the site. We know that for sure now. And the type of boot was surely the one shown in the evidence bag. Sources: LE, source in Delphi.

The girls’ clothing was found in the creek. This was no doubt an attempt by Unsub to destroy any DNA evidence. The clothes were probably from both girls and both were no doubt found nude. Conclusion: Certainly true as it was reported by as news reporter at the scene. Source: Statements from reporter at the scene, common sense.

There is an incredible rumor that victim Abigail Williams, age 13, was pregnant at the time of the attack. It is now known that she definitely had a boyfriend, who was 16 years old. He has been located, and we know his name. Conclusion: At the moment this is a weak rumor, but it does explain some other things such as the spearing attack. It has only been stated by one person and has not been corroborated, but there have also been no reports saying it is false. Source: A sleuth.

There is very gruesome rumor saying that Abbie’s body was found with a pointed branch driven into her stomach. In other words, Unsub stood over Abbie and plunged the stick into her belly, pinioning her like a shishkebab. If this is true, it is even more incredible for her to survive the attack and even to crawl around with a stick in her body. Conclusion: As bizarre as it sounds, this rumor is quite possibly true. It has been repeated by a resident who posted crime scene photos on his page and corroborated by those who saw his photos. Source: A source close to the family, a Delphi resident who posted crime scene photos on his site and others who viewed these photos.

Tying together both of the shocking rumors is the suggestion that Unsub knew that Abbie was pregnant, and the stick attack was an attempt to kill the fetus too. Although this makes sense, one wonders how he could have possibly known that she was pregnant given that she was not very far along. Look at Abbie in the bridge photo. Does she look pregnant in that photo? So how would Unsub discover that she was pregnant? When people are under the control of a potentially murderous person who is assaulting them with what looks like homicidal intent, a lot of victims make various pleas to their attacker(s) to please spare their lives.

These take the form of appeals such as, “Please, no, I have a wife and three kids!…No, spare me, I am the sole breadwinner for my family of five!,” etc. I am sure there are many more. Victims make all sorts of pleas and engage in various manipulations of the person assaulting them in an attempt to stay alive. Most people do not want to die and will try all sorts of desperate measures in an attempt to not be murdered.

Sometimes they work, the attacker has a change of heart and decides to spare one or more victims. If Abbie pleaded with Unsub that he would be killing not just her but another potential life, then Unsub would have learned of her pregnancy. Conclusion: No one knows if the rumor that Abbie was pregnant are even true, but the stick rumor surely is. At any rate, there is no evidence tying the stick attack in with the possible pregnancy other than a speculated theory. This was merely the conclusion of a fellow sleuth, who is actually very good. And she is a woman too. Source: Speculation by me and a fellow sleuth.

Ron Logan, the poor soul whose land the bodies were found on, is still the source of much speculation that he is the murderer. There are websites where all they do is go over and over this man as a suspect. Quite a few people still believe he is the killer. I do not believe that Ron Logan is the killer, nor do I believe that he had anything to do with this crime. However, LE seems to think he may know more about this crime than he is letting on. This was apparently behind the apparent efforts to sweat him out by throwing him in jail for a probation violation for violating his drunk driving probation.

He was supposed to neither drink nor drive and he did both on the day of the killings. Logan did indeed go to the dump and many people think he was disposing of evidence there. However, he went there at 11:30 AM, so he could not possibly have been disposing of evidence as this was 3.5 hours before the girls were even abducted. Instead, Logan was in Lafayette 25 miles away buying tropical fish, but mostly drinking in a bar somewhere, probably some “old man’s tavern.” He is said to have been drinking beer. He lied about this to LE in order to cover up his probation violation, and LE was not happy that he lied to them.

However, Logan’s wife, who has a low opinion of him, states emphatically that he is innocent of this crime and that there are time-stamped photos of him, probably taken by surveillance cameras. These time-stamped photos cover the period of the abduction, so he could not have done this crime. Logan returned at 5:30 PM from Lafayette, where searchers asked for permission to search his land, which was granted.

One thing that kept Logan’s name on people’s tongue is that his property was thoroughly searched once and maybe even twice. They are even said to have searched the interior of his home in addition to his outbuildings. His car was also searched and it was even impounded for a while. The second search of Logan’s land certainly set tongues wagging ferociously.

However, my investigator has now determined that the media was quite wrong about this search. The media said Logan’s land was being searched, but the main search was of the Mears property across the street and of course the barn. The simply mistook the Mears’ land for Logan’s land. Logan’s property may well have been searched also, but the focus was clearly on the Mears property.

Conclusion: Of course Logan is innocent. The dump accusation is false and there is hard evidence that he was in Lafayette at the time of the abductions. His land was probably searched because this poor fellow had the misfortune of having two dead girls dumped on his land.  The much-ballyhooed second search of Logan’s land was falsely reported. It was actually the Mears property being primarily searched, not Logan’s. Almost everything accusatory you hear about Ron Logan regarding this crime is surely false. I really wish everyone would lay off this poor soul.

Probation officer report for Ron Logan

The entirety of LE’s case against Logan. People made much of this paper because it says he went to the dump. This apparently proved that he was disposing of articles after killing the girls. But he went to the dump at 11:30 AM, 3.5 hours before the girls were abducted, so unless Logan can time travel to the past, he could not have been disposing of murder items at the dump as the homicide or even abduction had not even taken place yet!

Ron Logan is indeed a drunk and a probation violator and I have learned that he has a shady past. 5-10 years ago, he had a girlfriend who he used to beat up on a regular basis. One time perhaps 7-8 years ago, he nearly beat this poor woman to death. He is also said to be quite strange sexually and he has freaked out a number of local woman with his sexual interests. He is also said to be very much into sex, but that can be said about millions of male Americans and quite a few females too.

Conclusion: Drunk, yes. Probation violator, yes. The other accusations are quite disturbing but he has never shown an abnormal interest in young girls such as pubescent teenage girls. I believe that Logan is a kinky drunk who likes to slap his women around. That’s not exactly optimal, but there are probably millions of men like this in the US. But there is huge difference with having the dubious qualities above and being a depraved rapist-mutilator-murderer of young teenage girls.

In addition to the rest of the evidence, Logan simply does not have it in him to do this crime in my opinion. His ex wife, who is not a Ron Logan fan at all, says that whatever else Ron is, he is not a murderer as she feels he is not capable of it. The social media circus around this man is most unsavory if not outright wrong. It’s time to pack up the Ron Logan theory and take it out to the dump where it belongs. Sources: A Delphi local who knew the ex girlfriend very well, Logan’s ex-wife.

There is a rumor saying that the case against Ron Logan is completely corrupt and is being led by a man who could care less if Logan did these crimes or not. All this man wants is to see Logan destroyed. This man is another local with whom Logan had a falling out. The man has money and has long wanted to buy Logan’s 40 acres, however, Logan was never willing to sell. Logan’s property is said to be choice land with waterfalls, etc.

This man figures if he can get Logan prosecuted for murder or at least have his life ruined by these allegations, then at some point, Logan will sell his land, possibly to pay his legal bills. This man figures that ruining Ron Logan will allow this man to somehow acquire Logan’s property. Conclusion: Weak rumor only from one source, which seems to be Ron Logan’s attorney. Impossible to prove until we get evidence but it is interesting. Source: Source close to the families.

Three other posts in this series:

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in Both the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

The Case for Linking the Delphi Murders with the Evansdale Murders

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

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The Snake River Killer!

406smokedesignal: Hi Robert, FYI, when you referenced the Idaho Falls cases that are unsolved for 35 years, but there was a POI that never was arrested: I believe you are thinking of Lewiston, Idaho, unsolved missing persons/murders. The name(s) of the case(s) are: The Snake River Killer or Lewiston Civic Theatre murders. More twists and turns to missing persons cases and murders than one can fathom…and yet a serial killer walks freely. The strangest part to all of these Lewiston, ID., mysteries is the last person known to have seen almost every victim, yet he was never arrested for any of the disappearances or murders. Things that make you go, hmmmmmm. Thank you for the great blog and keep up the great work.

Yes, those are the Lewiston Murders. Just being the last person seen with a murder victim is never even enough for an arrest. He definitely got away with murder. I believe that those were not his only killings, and that he killed more in Idaho. He now lives in Appalachia, and I believe he has continued to kill over in the Smokies. He’s damn good at not getting caught all right! He’s one slick fellow. He is still alive, and I saw a recent photo of him. Looking at his photo, he doesn’t appear to feel the tiniest bit bad about anything he did.

I have a huge set of notes on that case that has needed to be turned into a post forever now. I really need to do that. This case is one of the most fascinating I have ever researched.

Those of you Delphi readers who are into some really crazy murder mysteries really need to look into this one.

This also goes to show how much evidence you need to take someone to trial for multiple murder. People argue that cops will file such a case just to get a killer off the streets, but that is not the case. In fact, there are cases all over the US where the police think they know who did it, but they do not have enough evidence to file on them. We still live in a democracy you know, never mind that Trump, Pence and the Republicans would love to get rid of it.

In fact, instead of filing desperately to get a killer off the streets, the standard of evidence for terrible multiple murder and serial cases is much higher because you are accusing someone of such a bad crime. The less serious the crime, the less evidence you need to take it to trial. Accusing someone of multiple or serial killings is one the most profound condemnations LE can make of another human being, and DA’s are adamant that LE needs to have a good case before they will take it to trial. The bar for enough evidence to try only raises as the crimes get worse and worse.

In the Lewiston case, police say they are 99% sure who did it, but they don’t have enough evidence to file. The police chief actually wanted to try the main suspect, but the DA refused to take the case, as he said the evidence was not good enough.

Robert A. Taylor of Virginia was recently convicted of the rape murder of a young Black woman. Before that, he was suspected by LE of being a serial killer, as he was the last person to see two young women alive. One was last seen at his house at midnight. In all three cases, the bodies disappeared, so not only did he know how to get away with murder but he also knew how to disappear bodies, which is no simple task. But this last time they got him, and they actually found good evidence against him including the victim’s bloody shirt and her hair and DNA in his home. Her phone last pinged at his house. Her body also vanished. This time police pounced on him. He was convicted the most recent murder but not the other two.

Police often say that they feel they know who did certain terrible crimes, but they really have nothing on them. In those cases, LE often says, “We have to watch him all the time.” So even though they can’t take him to court, they think he is dangerous enough to keep him under surveillance all the time. Surveillance requires no search warrant, and you would not believe how many people LE has under regular or irregular surveillance. And they are pretty good at surveilling you without being caught.

The story of the Lewiston Killer is one of the great true crime stories of the last 40 years. A documentary about the killings called Confluence was recently produced. You can see the trailer for it on Youtube. Police kept the main suspect’s name secret for many years,, but it has finally leaked out. I believe the killer’s latest job in North Carolina was postman. Some wonder if he has been killing women on his postal route. He is still married to the same woman he was married to during the Lewiston killings. She has insisted on his innocence all this time. He was the theater director in Lewiston, a very popular fellow who put on many popular plays. He involved himself in all of the searches often to the point of even leading them himself, and in one case he may have been the first one to find a body.

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Filed under Crime, Idaho, Law enforcement, Regional, Serial Killers, South, USA, West

Are Pedophiles Violent? How Often Do Rapists Kill?

Natalie Richoz: I’ve followed this case from the beginning too. Why? I don’t know. I’ve even run a few ads on FB for information.

With that, here’s what I surmise:

“Looks very meticulous” …
No. Shirt out…disheveled, like he’d been drinking or up to no good prior. I’ve gotten “public opinion” and “what do you see” and we’ve worked with the photo.

Pedophiles are not statistically violent, socio/psychopaths, sexual deviants are. Pedophiles befriend under your family and their very nose. They don’t want to lose what they covet. They perceive “love” for the child. This is not pedo.

I would think he’s unemployed or a driver, either way, someone saw him “acting strange” that day. Someone, maybe Logan, knows something.

Ligatures by clothing or girls’ belongings.

Semen on bodie(s).

I haven’t contemplated much more. Law enforcement has already talked to the guilty party, yes, I’d be surprised if there were 2 perps.

Happy Sleuthing!

I would like to thank Natalie for her excellent comments.

Some pedophiles are violent. The mysoped or sadistic pedophile is violent and is often a psychopath or sociopath. I’m not sure what % they are.

However, most pedophiles are not violent. This is true. Most do indeed love kids and many swear that they would never hurt a child and insist that their sex with children is consensual. However, society does not believe that sex between an adult and a child can ever be consensual. It’s probably true in the overwhelming majority of cases anyway. Little children don’t even have a sex drive the way we adults do, so one wonders why children would pursue adults for sex. It can be consensual if the child enjoys it, and as uncomfortable as it is for us to admit it, there are cases like that.

Sadistic rapists are 5% of all rapists, but they commit most rape-murders. Most of the other rapists will not kill you. Sure, they will rape you, but at least you will be alive. There is an Anger Rapist or Rage Rapist who hates women or is very mad at them. He doesn’t intend to kill, but if you make him mad, he will beat you. He may beat you anyway. He beats them up, but he doesn’t intend to kill them. But sometimes he beats them so badly that they die.

The other two types, Power-Reassurance and Power-Assertive, commit few murders. They just rape and leave, especially the Power Reassurance type or Gentleman Rapist. Women can actually reason with this fellow and play into his guilt, and you might get him to stop and leave.

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Filed under Crime, Law enforcement, Midwest, Pedophilia, Psychology, Psychopathology, Serial Killers, Sex, Social Problems, Sociology, USA

Breaking News: Major Update in the Delphi Murders Case

I know it is long past time for an update, but this will not be a comprehensive update. Instead I will report only one piece of new information:

There has been much speculation about the reason why the extreme LE effort to find the perpetrator of the Delphi Murders case was significantly scaled back. The common theory is that this case is dead cold, and hence LE is scaling it back. However, I have just been informed via an excellent source that that is not correct at all, and in fact, we have much more reason to be optimistic. The reason the case has been dramatically scaled back is because LE feels that they already have a pretty good idea of who did it but they are now focusing on trying to prove their case their main POI. I have no idea who this POI is. Source: Source close to federal LE, US Justice Department.

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Updated March 29: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13-14, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Comments on this post are now closed. Commenters are directed to the update of this post here

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that cannot be determined from this crime, as it was not a pedophilic offense. Pedophilic crimes only refer to those against victims who are 12 years old and under.

A hebephilic crime would target a victim of 11-14 years of age. As you can see, there is some overlap around the tweens. Instead of being a pedophilic crime, this was a hebephilic offense. And while the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Pedophilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls 12-under.

Hebephilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls ~11-14.

Age of victims: 13 and 14

You do the math.

Thank you so much for this. 

Note to commenters 2: I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources.

How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is a brand new update of the case as of March 29, 2017. Mostly the whole post just got a total rewrite, mostly to clean it up but also to reduce its length. I removed ~1,000 words, so it should be easier to read. The post was also cleaned up in places where additions needed to be made. There is a bit of new information below. The most important of the new information is in italics below.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and LE. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. I am getting my very best information from people who are close to the girls’ families. Of all of the rumors and information I get, these are some of the best. Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

My Musings on This Case

Rumors state that Libby was killed on 2-13, possibly pretty quickly, and Abby died or 2-14. Rumors continue to state that Abbie lived at least for some time after she was attacked. She somehow survived an incredibly vicious attack, but she died later. Conclusion: It now appears that Abbie did indeed survive the initial attack and live for some time after her body was dumped. If the rumors about her body being warm are correct, then she survived for at least 2 hours after she was dumped. Considering her major wounds, it is nothing less than amazing that she was able to survive this long. Sources: People close to LE, people close to the families.

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself. Source: My speculation based on the nature of the offense and the obvious skill involved.

Unsub is 5’10, 180 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch. Other sleuths and common citizens are offering differing views, but I take the expert for now. Source: Expert on CNN, paunch obvious in photo.

In my opinion, Unsub’s age is ~60, but really who knows? LE’s latest estimate is that he is 40-50 years old, but that’s seems too young to me. At the very least, that style of pants is outdated, and nowadays is only worn by men over 40 in that area. Presence of fanny pack also indicates an older man. They were popular in the late 1980’s, but hardly anyone wears them anymore except for some middle aged men. Conclusion: At the moment, the LE estimate of 40-50 is the best guess, but that could still be off. Sources: LE, sleuths commenting on the photo.

16681525_10155025082032118_8397740859158404533_n

Excellent drawing of Unsub from an LE artist.

LE believes that Unsub came from out of state to do this crime. I agree. Source: Recent remark by Indiana State Police quoted in media, my theory based on my favorite POI.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Source: Gun is obviously visible in photograph. Left-handedness concluded from the holstered gun pointing backwards on the right side.

16830677_10155067426604801_3110125659007687143_n

Photo clearly shows a semiautomatic .911 or 45 mm handgun holstered on his right, which means he is left-handed. If you cannot see that obvious gun there, I do not know what to say to you.

Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. Source: LE.

17155658_299551543794044_8913723064002791018_n

The killer appears to be wearing a camouflage cap. He is an example of one type.

Unsub is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing. Part of this is no doubt to disguise himself, but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body where the girls could leave scratch marks if the girls fight back hard, although they still could scratch up his face pretty well. Source: LE, my own theorizing and conjecture, common sense.

17352403_299956300420235_4834839455143437597_n

Another camouflage cap. I like this one a lot better, and to me it matches very well with the cap worn by Unsub in the bridge photo.

The fanny pack is probably where he kept his murder kit. Sources: My conjecture. What else could be in that pack?

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GIF image of Unsub photos run together.

There has been much talk about whether or not there were two murderers or one. There was good reason to believe the two killers theory, especially as LE appeared to be endorsing it. We have not heard anything about the two killers theory for some time now, so that is becoming a weak rumor. Last I heard was that LE was leaning to one killer.  Conclusion: Two killers or one? No one knows! Source: A variety of LE statements.

There have been persistent rumors since even before the case was released to the media (these early rumors coming from family members) that Abbie survived until the next day, 2-14. The were different rumors, including that she was found alive but died on the way to the hospital, that she was alive when found but died soon after, that the coroner said she survived the attack but died of hypothermia in the woods, that her body was still warm when found, etc.

These rumors started almost instantly from people close to the family. We now have some excellent information that she somehow survived the attack and tried to crawl a ways away until she died. I am still getting reports that Abbie died on 2-14, and her body was still warm when found from some of my best sources close to the families, so this version is still strong.

Conclusion: The best analysis now is that Abbie did indeed survive the initial attack and died at some point later on on 2-14. The thing we do not know is how long she survived after she was attacked. We do not know if she died soon after the attack or if she lingered for anywhere from 2-7 hours, which is my theory. Sources: Rumors, people close the family, people close to LE.

Rumors from the search party stated that the girls had to have been moved since the dump site found on 2-14 had been searched on 2-13. The searchers were adamant that they had searched the dump site thoroughly on 2-13. But the girls were covered with leaves, which would have made them hard to find at night.

On the other hand, there is now evidence stating that searchers ran a thermal imager over the area on 2-13 (perhaps with an aircraft?), and while there were plenty of living things down there, none of them were human. In other words, the only things alive in that woods when the imager was run were wild animals. One would think that if the girls had been put there by 4 PM or so on 2-13 that the bodies would have shown up on the thermal imager. Sources: People close to the search party, people close to the families, leak from LE.

There is a rumor about how the girls were moved to the dump site. The rumor said that searchers followed drag marks, presumably left by the girls, to the dump site. So the killer returned the girls to the forest where they were abducted somehow. But this might not be difficult if he had kept them alive in, say, an outbuilding on Ron Logan’s land in order to use the girls overnight. No searchers would have gone near Ron Logan’s outbuildings as they were located far from the search zone, so he had no fear of being caught. On the other hand, the killer may have moved the girls to some other outbuilding, possibly even aways away where he raped and killed or tried to kill them

It is not known how the killer kept the girls quiet, but perhaps he terrorized the girls with a gun or perhaps he had gagged them. They were definitely bound when they were kept in this outbuilding. It also makes sense that he would have kept them alive during this time. No doubt the killer remained with the girls the whole time they were in the outbuilding.

I believe that the homicidal attack on the girls, no doubt the throat slitting, may have been done not long before they were dumped on the hill. One more thing we need to note is that there is no way the killer dumped those bodies there on 2-13 or even up until 2:30 AM on 2-14, as there were loud and obvious searchers with their shouts and lights in the area. You don’t dump bodies right in the middle of a search party that is looking for just those bodies. No one does that.

Yet somehow he dumped those bodies there between 2:30 AM-9:30 AM on 2-14, as the second search began at 9:30 AM. The bodies would have been dumped there at night. Dawn was 7:40 AM on 2-14 so the bodies were dumped there between 2:30-7:30 AM.

There is a rumor says that the killer thrust a large pointed wooden stick into Abbie’s stomach. This brutal spearing must have occurred at the dump site, especially since even that spearing somehow did not kill Abbie! He would not have speared her before being placed at the dump site because it makes no sense to drag a girl with a spear in her down a hill. Further, Abbie survived the spearing, which means she must have been speared at the dump site.

Obviously they were dragged down the hill, placed at the dump site, and then the killer speared Abbie in the stomach as one final “F- you” to the poor girl. This final Parthian thrust shows the profound rage, hatred and contempt that this killer must have felt for his victims.

Yet how could the killer have known about a break in the searchers so he could do his early morning dumping in a ~3-4 time window? This is something I never understood. Did he have a partner or lookout on the property who notified him when the coast was clear? Makes little sense. Occam’s Razor offers us a simpler choice. Of course he knew when there was break in the searchers so he could body-dump. He knew this because he never left Logan’s property the whole time! He never left the area. He just stayed there, hiding with his victims in plain sight, so to speak. Source: Leaks from LE, people close to the families, my own theorizing.

Someone posted photos supposedly from the crime scene on a website frequented by Delphi residents. The photo was quickly taken down, but a number of people saw it anyway. The photo shows the two dead girls and the coroner. The person who posted the photo had some text saying that the bodies are positioned in an odd way. The only sense that he could make out of this odd posing of the bodies is that he thought it might have been some sort of a ritual, possibly a Satanic ritual. I believe this is called “posing” the bodies and is a favorite with serial killers. There are no details on how the girls were positioned. Source: A number of people who saw the Delphi resident’s web page.

The crime scene does not make sense in this case. The girls seem to have been attacked soon after Unsub said, “Go down the hill.” The entire south side of the creek was roped off as a crime scene. I do not feel that this is a homicide site; instead, I feel there was some sort of an altercation here as he tried to put them in a vehicle he had placed there for this purpose.

People are now saying that the whole attack was over soon after it began, and there are reports saying that the 6-minute audiotape contains the horrifying record of a homicide. This would imply that the girls were murdered very quickly. But when they were found, they were bound and had been sexually brutalized as well as being very badly beaten. One would think this would take some time to do.

Also there would be a lot of noise if they were killed right away on the south side of the creek, and someone surely would have heard. The degree of the assault indicating a significant assault over a period of time and the lack of witnesses hearing noise or screams on the south side of the creek implies to me that the attacks took place elsewhere, perhaps in some remote structure. If they were in a remote structure, he could have assaulted them a long time without being seen, and the sound of the assault and the girls’ screams could easily not have been heard, as there was no one nearby. Reports now state that LE believes that the girls were assaulted and attempts were made to kill them in some sort of a structure somewhere, perhaps on Ron Logan’s property.

Reports that the crime was over quickly after it began do not make sense for a variety of reasons. Furthermore, assuming Abbie’s body was still warm when found, if she was murdered at 4 PM on the south side, how does she linger for 17 1/2 hours until the next day? Simple, it didn’t happen. And if he killed them right away and did not dump them on the north side until early AM 2-14, this means that the killer drove around in his vehicle with two dead or near-dead girls in the car with him. And he would have had to drive with those bodies in the car for 10 1/2 hours. That didn’t happen.

However, there is some brutal audio and perhaps video that Liberty recorded on her phone. Some of the audio was recorded right before the abduction, and there is 40 minutes after that. The audio right after the recording of the man saying, “Down the hill,” records the girls screaming.

Does that imply that the girls were attacked soon after being told to go down the hill? Yes.

There are serious problems with the matter of Libbie’s phone. However, whatever was recorded on the phone was surely recorded before 5:30 PM 2-13. After that time and for several hours, Liberty’s phone was pinging all over town which means it was not in Liberty’s possession and was probably lying somewhere in the forest where she discarded it.

The assumption then is that Liberty discarded the phone in the woods before 5:30 PM, and then the phone pinged all over town looking for a signal for several hours before dying. The problem with this theory is that if she threw the phone in the woods, it should have been found by now. And the latest rumor is that Liberty’s phone was not found by LE. The audio and video were obtained from the Cloud, as video and audio from smartphones are saved very quickly after being recorded. So LE didn’t even need the phone because all the relevant information was on the Cloud.

OK, so why was Liberty’s phone pinging all over town for several hours during the search? This would make sense if the phone was in the woods, but it appears now that the phone was not in the woods. So why did it ping all over town? Perhaps it was discarded in some other remote part of the town area.

The killer had the two girls in his remote structure soon after they were abducted. If the structure was not far from the dump site, the phone could have been on Liberty’s body while she was in the structure as Logan’s property is near the forest where they were taken. Perhaps in the process of disrobing her, the killer found Liberty’s cellphone. Perhaps it was dead by this point.

Under this scenario, Unsub either disposed of or destroyed the phone after it died, and this is why it has never been found. Perhaps he smashed it to bits. Perhaps he discarded it in the garbage somewhere. Of course, all of this makes sense if the latest rumors about LE not finding the phone are correct.

This is the first rumor that says anything about whether the phone was found or not. Up to now, we had no word from LE or rumors about the disposition of the phone. Conclusion: We don’t even know if the phone was found by LE or not. Rumors are now saying that the phone was not recovered. If it was not, there are all sorts of problems dealing with the phone. Nothing about this phone makes much sense, and we will just have to leave it at that. Source: People close to the search party, people close to the case.

There is a theory from people close to the family saying that the actual killings took place on the north side of the creek, However, it was the south side that was roped off as a crime scene, not the north side. Yes, the tape was removed two days later, but so what? This is standard procedure in a park. But if the south side was not a homicide scene but instead some other sort of scene such as an abduction scene, it could have been gone over quickly, and there would be no reason to keep it roped off.

The girls were not attacked much at the dump site, as the dump site was described as pristine. Conclusion: The best theory right now is that the south side was the scene of some scuffle probably as he was trying to tie them up or get them in his vehicle. The best evidence now suggests that the girls were killed somewhere else, apparently in some structure. But no one knows where this structure might be. Sources: LE, media reports, sleuths.

The FBI interviewed a man who had property on the south side of the creek. They asked about his gun(s), his vehicle(s) and whether there were any outbuildings. From this we can conclude that the FBI believes that a gun, a vehicle and an outbuilding were used in this crime. The major searches of Ron Logan’s land, the structures there, etc. imply to me that the girls were murdered somewhere on Logan’s land, probably in some structure on his land. But then why is nothing roped off on Logan’s land? At any rate, the repeated searches of Logan’s property do not imply that Logan is guilty so much as that he is the owner of property where a serious crime occurred.

In addition, the notion of a structure fits well into the very earliest statements from family members 1.5 hours before the media even reported the crime saying that the girls were found raped and killed in a cabin. Since the girls were found dumped in the forest, the rumor about being found in a cabin made no sense.

But now there is a way that we tie this all together. Sure, the cabin or structure played a serious role in the crime, but not as a dump site. Instead, the cabin was the place where they were abused, raped and killed! Then they were dumped a short ways away. So the Cabin Theory makes a new appearance, this time making a lot more sense. Sources: Family members, people close to the family, leaks from LE.

Just in, there is a new rumor stating that LE says that Liberty could have escaped several times, but she chose to stay by her best friend’s side to the end. In real life, they were inseparable. That means that Libby is truly a hero for giving her life in order not to abandon her friend. And it makes this crime even more sad. Source: Person close to the family.

There is indeed a voice recording of Unsub saying, “Go down the hill.” The next thing you hear on the tape is the girls screaming. This is part of an audiotape heroically recorded by Libby by turning on the recorder on her phone as the girls were being abducted. It has also been implied, terrifyingly, that the audio is actually a recording of the rapes and murders. Source: People close to the family.

There is a new rumor just in that says that there is not 6 minutes of video/audio but instead there is 40 minutes of video/audio! Someone posted this on a site that the families frequent, and no family members asked to take it down for being inaccurate, so there is something to it. I believe there is little more video, and most of that 40 minutes is audio. And I have heard that it’s ugly and nasty stuff, so terrifying that LE does not want to release it. Strong rumor. Source: Posting on a website frequented by the families of the girls.

There is talk of a white Ford Mustang that can be barely seen in the lower left of the photo of Abbie on the bridge below the bridge. No one even knows if that is a car or not in that photo. Many people say they cannot make out a vehicle in the photo.

However, new information says that that only vehicle that could have been in the location of the “Mustang” would have been an SUV because it is so hard to get to that area by vehicle. That road is a very little-used road that almost no one has even heard of. It appears to have been a road used by workers to maintain the bridge. A new rumor says that LE believes that the killer’s vehicle was parked at a trail head on the south side. Source: Sleuths analyzing the photo of Libby on the bridge, people close to the family.

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A possible vehicle can barely be seen circled in blue.

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The “vehicle” is very hard to make out in this photo, but I do see what appears to be a vehicle in that photo. At any rate, no one even knows if there is a vehicle in that photo or not.

Libby’s grandfather who raised her said, “I know Libby. She put up one Hell of a fight.” He is correct that Libby put up a strong battle. The reason that the grandfather said she put up a wild fight is probably because that is what it says in the medical report. If she fought hard, there will be talk of defensive wounds and maybe DNA under her nails. The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds because she had many small wounds on her body and face. In that case, Unsub may have scratch marks. Source: Media reports, people at the funeral, common sense.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was probably used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet with the gun. However, I do not believe the gun was used to kill the girls. It would have made too much noise. Furthermore, no gunshots were reported in the area around the time of the abduction. Source: Common sense, witness reports.

There is a rumor that both girls had their throats slit. This is a strong rumor. Funerals were open casket, and both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit.

There is a rumor about the knife attack on one of the girls, surely Liberty, saying she was nearly decapitated. This is a strong rumor. Since Abbie survived the assault for at least some time afterwards, it was surely Liberty who was nearly decapitated. It would have been almost impossible for Abbie to survive a near-decapitation. No one can survive that.

In fact, it appears that the the wound to Abbie’s throat was not a particularly grievous wound. In other words, if he was trying to kill her, he did a poor job of it. Although the rumor that their throats were slit is only a rumor, it is interesting that there have been no counter-rumors saying this method of attack is not true. One would think that if there were any doubt about this sort of attack, we would have heard at least one counter-rumor by now. Sources: Family members, people close to LE,  people at the funeral.

There is a rumor saying that both girls were beaten so badly in their faces that they were nearly unrecognizable. This rumor may well be true, but at least Abbie was fixed up pretty good in her face for the funeral, so one wonders how a funeral director could have covered up such devastating wounds. Source: Source close to the family.

This offense was clearly sexually motivated, and it seems quite clear that sexual assault occurred in the course of the crime. The very first rumors from the family members said both girls had been raped. There is a rumor that says that while both girls were raped, Libby was sexually assaulted worse than Abby was, but I am not sure what that implies. With this rumor, it seems quite clear that both girls were raped. Sources: Family members, people close to LE, general rumors, sources close to family.

There is uncertain information about the state of the bodies when found. All rumors indicate that Abbie was nude. There are differing reports about Liberty, some saying she was clothed and some saying she was also nude. Considering that clothing was found in the creek in an attempt to eliminate DNA evidence, it does not make sense that the killer would leave probable DNA-contaminate clothing on Liberty’s body. Abbie’s clothes were surely found in the water, and common sense would indicate that Liberty’s were too. Conclusion: The theory that best explains the facts is that both girls were found nude. Sources: Rumors, sources close to the family.

We still have no idea if DNA of Unsub was collected from the scene. LE is being very tight-lipped about this. Source: A good source in Delphi, LE, media reports.

There is a rumor that boot prints were found at the scene. These boots are thought to have been worn by Unsub. This would make sense, as LE had some boots in an evidence bag a few days after the killings. They innocuously said that the boots had nothing to do with the crime, but they were probably lying. They probably did not recover Unsub’s actual boots themselves. Why would Unsub discard his boots at the crime scene and walk away shoeless? Makes no sense. It is more likely that LE matched the boot prints to that type and size of boot, indicating that Unsub was wearing boots of that make and size at the time of the crime. Sources: LE, source in Delphi.

The girls’ clothing was found in the creek. This was no doubt an attempt by Unsub to destroy any DNA evidence. Source: Statements from reporter at the scene, common sense.

There is an incredible rumor that victim Abigail Williams, age 13, was pregnant at the time of the attack. It is now known that she definitely had a boyfriend, who was 16 years old. He has been located, and we know his name. At the moment this is a weak rumor, but it does explain some other things such as the spearing attack. Source: A sleuth.

There is very gruesome rumor saying that Abbie’s body was found with a pointed branch driven into her stomach. In other words, Unsub stood over Abbie and plunged the stick into her belly, pinioning her like a shishkebab. If this is true, it is even more incredible for her to survive the attack and even to crawl around with a stick in her body. Source: A source close to the family.

Tying together both of the shocking rumors is the suggestion that Unsub knew that Abbie was pregnant, and the stick attack was an attempt to kill the fetus too. Although this makes sense, one wonders how he could have possibly known that she was pregnant given that she was not very far along. Look at Abbie in the bridge photo. Does she look pregnant in that photo? So how would Unsub discover that she was pregnant? When people are under the control of a potentially murderous person who is assaulting them with what looks like homicidal intent, a lot of victims make various pleas to their attacker(s) to please spare their lives.

These take the form of appeals such as, “Please, no, I have a wife and three kids!…No, spare me, I am the sole breadwinner for my family of five!,” etc. I am sure there are many more. Victims make all sorts of pleas and engage in various manipulations of the person assaulting them in an attempt to stay alive. Most people do not want to die and will try all sorts of desperate measures in an attempt to not be murdered.

Sometimes they work, the attacker has a change of heart and decides to spare one or more victims. If Abbie pleaded with Unsub that he would be killing not just her but another potential life, then Unsub would have learned of her pregnancy. Source: Speculation by me and a fellow sleuth.

There is now a lot of talk that Ron Logan or perhaps his son were involved in this crime. Logan was arrested recently on a probation violation for a drunk driving case. This set the rumor mill wild as there was much talk that Logan was involved in the murders. He was jailed for a week or so and a secondary search of his land was conducted. Many took this to mean that Logan was the killer. Logan was released after his probation violation hearing, which means that LE does not consider him a suspect in the murders. Furthermore, Logan always seemed an unlikely suspect for me for many reasons. Source: News reports.

There is a rumor out saying that the case against Ron Logan is completely corrupt and is being led by a man who could care less if Logan did these crimes or not. All this man wants is to see Logan destroyed. This man is another local with whom Logan had a falling out. The man has money and has long wanted to buy Logan’s 40 acres, however, Logan was never willing to sell. Logan’s property is said to be choice land with waterfalls, etc.

This man figures if he can get Logan prosecuted for murder or at least have his life ruined by these allegations, then at some point, Logan will sell his land, possibly to pay his legal bills. This man figures that ruining Ron Logan will allow this man to somehow acquire Logan’s property. Source: Source close to the families.

Three other posts in this series:

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in Both the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

The Case for Linking the Delphi Murders with the Evansdale Murders

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Filed under Crime, Criminology, Law enforcement, Midwest, Regional, Serial Killers, Sociology, USA

Updated March 23: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that can be determined from this crime, as it was not a pedophilic offense. Pedophilic crimes only refer to those against victims who are 12 years old and under. A hebephilic crime would target a victim of 11-14 years of age. As you can see, there is some overlap around the tweens. Instead of being a pedophilic crime, this was a hebephilic offense. And while the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Pedophilia: Strong sexual preference for girls 12-under.

Hebephilia: Strong sexual preference for girls ~11-14.

Age of victims: 13 and 14

You do the math.

I work in mental health, and I can’t stand people using psychiatric terms incorrectly. This is a scientific blog, and words must be used properly, even by commenters. Thank you so much for this. 

Note to commenters 2: Do you have any idea how much hate mail I get from these posts? I am really getting sick and tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. The only thing that is represented as fact as statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with theories, opinions and what not, just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

And incidentally, the way I wrote up the case is precisely how detectives work a case. Detectives do not work cases using the scientific method. If they did, they would hardly solve one case. It’s more “We believe this for now…this is true for now…at the moment, this is what we think happened…we believe…” In the course of their work on any  case, detectives are putting forth endless theories about what really happened and accepting them as (temporary) facts. They are then continuously revising and throwing out a lot of these theories and creating new ones.

Being a detective is about being wrong. Not just once, but being wrong over and over so many times your head will want to come off. If you can’t handle being wrong, then detective work is surely not for you. If they finally think they got their man, detectives arrive at enough conclusions for the DA to file a case against someone, but a lot of that is not factual either. They believe he did the crime. They believe that this, that, or the other happened with no way to really prove it – it’s just what they conjecture.

If the person is convicted, then the theory that they did the crime is validated as fact, but I am not sure what other evidence is. And even court decisions are not scientific fact because they get overturned all the time. Instead we could call them temporary facts (which actually defines most theory in science). There are not a whole lot of 100% certain, clear scientific facts in LE work, detective work or the judicial system itself. A good portion of the decisions made by these entities turn out to be theories, temporary but unstable facts, beliefs, hunches and guesswork, all represented as fact in the court.

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is a brand new update of the case as of March 23, 2017. It includes lots of new information, some new theories about the crime and the discarding of some previous theories. All in a day’s sleuthing work.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and borderline areas such as cryptic statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and law enforcement investigation of this case. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. Some were associated with missing persons groups. I have pretty good sleuthing skills involving research. This includes digging through background information databases online and other sorts of web research. However, I will say that I am getting my very best information from people who are close to the girls’ families. Of all of the rumors and information I get, this is some of the best.

This is the source of some of my material.

Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case. This includes offender profiling.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

I am pessimistic once again about this case. It seems that are so many fantastic suspects and POI’s that I can’t even keep track of them. That’s a bad sign right there.

My Musings on This Case

Rumors state that Libby was killed on 2-13, possibly pretty quickly, and Abby died or 2-14. Rumors continue to state that Abbie lived at least for some time after she was attacked. She somehow survived an incredibly vicious attack, but she died later. Conclusion: Nobody knows. Libby died in 2-13 and Abbie may have too, or perhaps she died on 2-14. People close to the case are giving both scenarios as absolute proven fact,  and they can’t both be true. This is still completely up in the air as far as I can tell. Sources: People close to LE, complaints from haters.

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself. Source: My speculation based on the nature of the offense and the obvious skill involved.

Although catfishing rumors were prominent early on for some very good reasons, these rumors have died down and are now weak. At the moment, catfishing appears unlikely. If you do not know what catfishing is, look it up. Sources: Rumors.

Unsub is 5’10, 180 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch.  Other sleuths and common citizens are offering differing views, but I take the expert for now. Source: Expert on CNN, paunch obvious in photo.

In my opinion, Unsub’s age is ~60, but really who knows. LE’s latest estimate is that he is 40-50 years old, but that’s seems too young to me. At the very least, that style of pants is outdated and nowadays is only worn by men over 40 in that area. Presence of fanny pack also indicates an older man. They were popular in the late 1980’s, but hardly anyone wears them anymore except for some older guys. Conclusion: At the moment, the LE estimate of 40-50 is the best guess, but that could still be off. Sources: LE stated that he had a fanny pack. LE estimate on age. Info on fanny packs and jeans style by people looking at the photos.

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Excellent new drawing of Unsub from an LE artist.

LE believes that Unsub came from out of state to do this crime. Source: Recent remark by Indiana State Police quoted in media, my theory based on my favorite POI.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Assuming that is a pistol, and it is, then Unsub is left-handed. Source: Gun is obviously visible in photograph. Left-handedness concluded from the holstered gun pointing backwards on the right side.

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Photo clearly shows a semiautomatic .911 or 45 mm handgun holstered on his right, which means he is lefthanded. Incredibly, about 85% of the people who see this photo insists that’s not a gun, or that it can’t be a gun until God or the cops or Mom or whoever tells us what we are seeing with our own two eyes. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have two eyeballs. When my eyes tell me I am seeing something, I take it as proven fact. Apparently we humans are not supposed to believe very our own eyes!

Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. Source: LE statement.

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The killer appears to be wearing a camouflage cap. He is an example of one type.

Unsub is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing. Part of this is no doubt to disguise himself, but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body where the girls could leave scratch marks if the girls fight back hard, although they still could scratch up his face pretty well. Source: LE statements about clothing. Statement about type of cap is my conjecture from the photo. Reason for being heavily dressed is common sense for an offender preparing to commit rape and murder.

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Another camouflage cap. I like this one a lot better, and to me it matches very well with the cap worn by Unsub in the bridge photo.

Fanny pack is probably where he kept his murder kit. Sources: Murder kit is my conjecture. What else is in there? A first aid kit?

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GIF image of Unsub photos run together.

There has been much talk about whether or not there were two murderers or one. It is not yet proven that there were two killers, and LE is now leaning towards the theory that there was one killer. However, even LE themselves described who did of this crime as “the murderers.” And from the very start, they referred to Unsub as a participant instead of a suspect. Participant is almost never used unless LE thinks there is more than one killer.

Police are now walking this back by saying that it’s standard procedure to assume maybe more than one killer in a homicide case, but that’s not even true so they must think we are stupid. It isn’t. There was some specific reason why they thought there were two killers in this case, and we do not know what that reason was. At any rate, they seem to be walking the two killers theory back too, and they are leaning towards one killer. Conclusion: Two killers or one? Take your pick. No one knows! Source: Very strange LE statements.

There have been persistent rumors since even before the case was released to the media (these early rumors coming from family members) that Abbie survived til the next day, 2-14. The rumors were that she was found alive but died on the way to the hospital, that she was alive when found but died soon after, that the coroner said she survived the attack but died of hypothermia the next day, that her body was still warm when found, etc. These rumors started almost instantly from people close to the family. We now have some excellent information that she somehow survived the attack and tried to crawl a ways away until she died. I am still getting reports that Abbie died on 2-14, and her body was still warm when found from some of my best sources close to the families, so this version is still strong.

Now there is aggressive criticism of this theory from people who insist that both girls died on 2-13. Which begs the question again of how and why all the survival stories even got started in the first place. Conclusion: The best analysis now is that Abbie did indeed survive the initial attack and died at some point later on. The thing we do not know is how long she survived after she was attacked. We do not know if she died soon after the attack or if she lingered for anywhere from 7-10 hours, which is my theory. Sources: Rumors, people close the family, people close to LE.

Rumors from the search party stated that the girls had to have been moved since the dump site found on 2-14 had been searched on 2-13. The searchers were adamant that they had searched the dump site thoroughly on 2-13. But the girls were covered with leaves, which would have made them hard to find at night.

On the other hand, new evidence states that searchers ran a thermal imager over the area (perhaps with an aircraft?), and while there were plenty of living things down there, none of them were human. In other words, the only things alive in that woods when the imager was run were wild animals. One would think that if the girls had been put there by 4 PM or so on 2-13 that the bodies would have shown up on the thermal imager. Sources: People close to the search party, people close to the families, leak from LE.

In my previous post, I had heard that searchers had followed the girls’ train down a rather steep slope to the dump site. I assumed that that was a foot trail, and I decided that the girls were marched alive down to their deaths. Indeed, that is what my source told me. So much of that did not ring true, for one thing, the dump site is quite pristine so obviously the girls were not killed there and they would have to have been killed there to make that theory make sense.

However, I heard a new rumor now which made so much more sense. The new rumor said that yes the searchers followed the girls’ trail to the dump site, but the trail that the followed was made up of drag marks, not footsteps. So the killer returned the girls to the forest where they were abducted somehow. But this might not be difficult if he had kept them alive in, say, an outbuilding on Ron Logan’s land to have his fun with them overnight. No searchers would go near those outbuildings as they were located far from the search zone, so he had no fear of being caught.

Perhaps he terrorized the girls with a gun or perhaps he had gagged them. They were definitely bound when they were kept in this outbuilding. It also makes sense that he would have kept them alive during this time. It’s hard to imagine the killer killing or trying to kill the girls and then leaving them presumably dead in the outbuilding. He certainly would not have stayed there with two dead bodies and as Abbie was alive the whole time she was in the outbuilding, he would have been able to tell that she survived his brutalizations and he would logically attack her again and finish her off once and for all.

I believe that the homicidal attack on the girls, no doubt the throat slitting, may have been done not long before they were dumped on the hill. It makes more sense than the guy hanging out in a shed with two dead girls for hours or leaving two dead girls in the outbuilding to come back later and dump them.

One more thing we need to note is that there is no way the killer dumped those bodies there on 2-13 or even up until 2:30 AM on 2-14 as there were loud and obvious searchers with their shouts and lights in the area. You don’t dump bodies right in the middle of a search party that is looking for just those bodies. No one does that.

Yet somehow he dumped those bodies there between 2:30 AM on 2-13 and 9:30 AM on 2-14 when the next search started. Logically there is no way that he would have dumped those bodies in that dump site in daylight. That’s just stupid. So depending on whenever dawn was that day in Delphi, the bodies were dumped in the pitch dark early morning hours of 2-14 between 2:30 AM and ~5-6 AM.

It seems as though the brutal spearing of one of the girls (see below) must have occurred at the dump site, especially since even that spearing somehow did not kill Abbie! To say she was speared at the outbuilding or before being dragged down the hill to the dump site makes little sense. How do you drag a body down a dark slope at night with a spear in its stomach? It will make the dragging very hard and the stick may well become dislodged. Further, how does Abbie possibly survive being speared and then drug down the hill with a stick speared into her chest. No way. Abbie may well be Super Girl with more lives than a cat, but she could not have survived that.

Obviously they were dragged down the hill, placed at the dump site and then the killer speared Abbie in the stomach as one final “F- you” to the poor girl. This final attack, probably a Parthian thrust no doubt, shows the profound and hatred and contempt that this killer must have felt for his victims.

Yet how could the killer have known about a break in the searchers so he could do his early morning dumping in a ~3-4 time window. This is something I never understood. Did he have a partner or lookout on the property who notified him when the coast was clear? Makes little sense. Occam’s Razor offers us a simpler choice. Of course he knew when there was break in the searchers so he could body-dump. He knew this because he never left Logan’s property the whole time! He never even left the area. He just stayed there, hiding with his victims in plain sight, so to speak. Makes sense, right?  Source: Leak from LE.

The crime scene does not make a lot of sense in this case. The girls seem to have been attacked soon after Unsub said, “Go down the hill.” The entire south side of the creek was roped off as a crime scene. I do not feel that this is a homicide site; instead, I feel there was some sort of an altercation here as he tried to put them in a vehicle, perhaps a Ford Mustang, that he had parked there for this purpose.

People are now saying that the whole attack was over soon after it began, and there are reports saying that the 6-minute audiotape contains the horrifying record of a homicide. This would imply that the girls were murdered very quickly. But when they were found, they were bound and had been sexually brutalized as well as being very badly beaten. One would think this would take some time to do.

Also there would be a lot of noise if they were killed right away on the south side of the creek, and someone surely would have heard. The degree of the assault indicating a significant assault over a period of time and the lack witnesses hearing noise or screams on the south side of the creek implies to me that the attacks took place elsewhere, perhaps in some remote structure. If they were in a remote structure, he could have assaulted them a long time without being seen, and the sound of the assault and the girls’ could easily not have been heard as there was no one nearby. New reports state that LE believes that the girls were assaulted and attempts were made to kill them in some sort of a structure somewhere, perhaps on Ron Logan’s property.

Reports that the crime was over quickly after it began do not make sense for a variety of reasons. However, there is some brutal audio and perhaps video that Liberty recorded on her phone. Some of the audio was recorded right before the abduction, and there is six minutes after that. The audio right after the recording of the man saying, “Down the hill,” records the girls screaming.

Does that imply that the girls were attacked soon after being told to go down the hill? Not necessarily. Perhaps Liberty was very smart, and she was turning the recorder on and off throughout the abduction, only turning it on when things got scary or brutal.

However, whatever was recorded on the phone was surely recorded before 5:30 PM 2-13. After that time and for several hours, Liberty’s phone was pinging all over town which means it was not in Liberty’s possession, or perhaps it was on her body but not accessible as she was tied up. But in that case, the killer would have had to discover the phone in her clothing and discarded it. He got close and personal with these girls and was familiar with their clothing as both may been disrobed. At the point of disrobing, he could have found Liberty’s phone on her.

The assumption has been that Liberty discarded the phone in the woods before 5:30 PM, and then the phone pinged all over town looking for a signal for several hours before dying. The problem with this theory is that if she threw the phone in the woods, it should have been found by now. And the latest rumor is that Liberty’s phone was not found by LE. The audio and video was obtained from the Cloud as video and audio from smartphones is saved very quickly after it is recorded. So LE didn’t even need the phone because all the relevant information was on the Cloud.

OK, so why was Liberty’s phone pinging all over town for several hours during the search? This would make sense if the phone was in the woods, but it appears now that the phone was not in the woods. So why did it ping all over town? Perhaps it was discarded in some other remote part of the town area.

Or perhaps the killer left the two girls bound in some structure somewhere while the search went on, while he himself took off in a vehicle and drove aimlessly all around town for a few hours during the search. But Unsub would have had to be a moron to keep a pinging phone with him. But if Unsub saw it, he could have grabbed the phone so LE would not find it as evidence. So why not turn it off? Why leave it on as you drive all over town?

At any rate under this scenario, Unsub either disposed of or destroyed the phone after it died, and this is why it has never been found. Perhaps he smashed it to bits. Perhaps he discarded it in the garbage somewhere. Of course, all of this makes sense if the latest rumors about LE not finding the phone are correct.

This is the first rumor that says anything about whether the phone was found or not. Up to now, we had no word from LE or rumors about the disposition of the phone. Conclusion: There are various theories floating around concerning Liberty’s phone, but they only make sense if LE found the phone. If LE did not retain the phone, the rest of the evidence around the phone doesn’t make a lot of sense. Bottom line is we don’t know anything about this phone or whether it was even found by LE or not. Source: People close to the search party, people close to the case.

There is a theory from people close to the family saying that the actual killings took place on the north side of the creek, However, it was the south side that was roped off as a crime scene, not the north side. Yes, the tape was removed two days later, but so what? This is standard procedure in a park. But if the south side was not a homicide scene but instead some other sort of scene such as an abduction scene, it could have been gone over quickly and there would be no reason to keep it roped off.

The girls were clearly not attacked or not attacked much at the dump site as the dump site was described as pristine. How does a murder site look pristine? It doesn’t. Conclusion: The best theory right now is that the south side was the scene of some scuffle probably as he was trying to tie them up or get them in his vehicle. The best evidence now suggests that the girls were killed somewhere else, apparently in some structure. But no one knows where this structure might be.

The FBI interviewed a man who had property on the south side of the creek about structures on his land, so it appears that the FBI thinks that the structure could have been on the south side of the creek. The major searches of Ron Logan’s land, the structures there, etc. imply to me that the girls were murdered somewhere on Logan’s land, probably in some  structure on his land. So the repeated searches of Logan’s property do not imply that Logan is guilty so much as that he is the owner of property where a serious crime occurred!

In addition, the notion of a structure fits well into the very earliest statements about the murders from family members released 1.5 hours before the media even recovered the crime. These statements said that both girls were found raped and murdered in a cabin. People went with that for a while until it was shown to be untrue by credible folks. But now we can tie it all together! Sure, the cabin or structure played a serious role in the crime, but not as a dump site. Instead, the cabin was the place where they were abused, raped and killed! Then they were dumped a short ways away. So the Cabin Theory makes a new appearance, this time making a lot more sense. Sources:        Family members, people close to the family, rumors, leaks from LE.

There is indeed a voice recording of Unsub saying, “Go down the hill.” This was recorded heroically by Libby by turning on the recorder on her phone as the girls were being abducted. The sound recording of the crime is said to be much longer than what was released. It has also been implied, terrifyingly, that the sound recording is actually the recording of the rapes and murders. That probably makes it one of the worst sound recordings made in a crime case in some time, going back to the Toolbox Murders in 1979

What is on the unreleased portion of the tape? After Unsub says, “Go down the hill,” at some point not long after that, you hear both girls screaming. Source: People close to the family.

There is talk of a Ford Mustang that can be barely seen in the lower left of the photo of Abbie on the bridge below the bridge. It is very hard to make out, but it could well be a vehicle. How it was determined to be a Ford Mustang and a white one at that is not known. It is not yet known how this purported vehicle was involved in the case. I would think that this vehicle was used by Unsub to travel to the crime scene and then it was used again to abduct and transport the girls, apparently to some structure somewhere.

The road that it is parked on is a very little used road that almost no one has even heard of. It appears to have been a road used by workers to maintain  the bridge. Access to it is quite difficult and involves some convoluted twists and turns of road, not to mention that part of the access is via a private driveway. It does seem very odd to me that that purported vehicle is in that location right before the girls got abducted. If that is a car, I am thinking that that car does not belong there at all and that it is significant to the case in some unknown way. Source: Sleuths analyzing the photo of Libby on the bridge, people close to the family

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The vehicle can barely be seen circled in blue, or maybe you can’t make it out at all. This photo has now been enhanced.

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The vehicle is still hard to make out in this enhanced photo, but if you look very carefully, you might be able to see a car. Or maybe you won’t. Squint and try your luck.

Libby’s grandfather who raised her said, “I know Libby. She put up one Hell of a fight.” He is correct that Libby put up a strong battle. The reason that the grandfather said she put up a wild fight is probably because that is what it says in the medical report. If she fought hard, there will be talk of defensive wounds and maybe DNA under her nails. The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds because she had many small wounds on her body and face. In that case, Unsub may have scratch marks. Source: Media reports and statements from people at the funeral. Common sense that the only way the grandfather would known that she fought hard was if he saw the coroners’ report.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was probably used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet with the gun. However, I do not believe the gun was used to kill the girls. It would have made too much noise. Rumors that this was not a gun crime are correct. Source: Common sense that the gun would be the best way to control the girls and common sense that a gun crime would have involved audible gunshots. No gunshots were heard, so doubtless there was no gun fired in this crime.

There is a rumor that both girls had their throats slit. This is a strong rumor. Funerals were open casket, and both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. There is a counter-rumor to this one saying that some people at the funeral said they saw no scarves on the girls, but this is a weak rumor. The rumor about the presence of scarves is a much stronger rumor. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit.

There are two rumors about the knife attack on one of the girls, probably Liberty. A weak rumor says she was decapitated. The strong rumor says she was nearly decapitated. A decapitation would have been hard for a funeral director to hide, and both girls had their heads on at the funeral. Of the two rumors, the strong one looks better. Since Abbie survived the assault for at least some time afterwards, it was surely Liberty who was nearly decapitated. It would have been almost impossible for Abbie to survive a near-decapitation. No one can survive that.

In fact, it appears that the the wound to Abbie’s throat was not a particularly grievous wound. In other words, if he was trying to kill her, he did a poor job of it. Although the rumor that their throats were slit is only a rumor, it is interesting that there have been no counter-rumors saying this method of attack is not true. One would think that if there were any doubt about this sort of attack, we would have heard at least one counter-rumor by now. Sources: Rumors including the very first reports of the crime from family members. Later confirmation from people close to LE. Statements by people at the funeral.

A new rumor says that both girls were beaten so badly in their faces that they were nearly unrecognizable. This rumor may well be true, but at least Abbie was fixed up pretty good in her face for the funeral, so one wonders how a funeral director could have covered up such devastating wounds. Source: Source close to the family.

This offense was clearly sexually motivated, and it seems quite clear that sexual assault occurred in the course of the crime. The very first rumors from the family members said both girls had been raped. This was later amended to at least one of the girls. The notion that only one girl was raped would not seem logical. This fellow had a lot of time to carry out his assaults and rapists don’t usually only rape one victim and leave the other one alone.

There is a new report that says that while both girls were raped, Libby was sexually assaulted worse than Abby was, but I am not sure what that implies. With this new rumor that Libby received a more brutal sexual assault than Abby did, it seems quite clear that both girls were raped. Sources: Very first reports of the crime from family members and later confirmation from people close to LE, general rumors, sources close to family.

There is uncertain information about the state of the bodies when found. All rumors indicate that Abbie was nude. There are differing reports about Liberty, some saying she was clothed and some saying she was also nude. Considering that clothing was found in the creek in an attempt to eliminate DNA evidence, it does not make sense that the killer would leave probable DNA-contaminate clothing on Liberty’s body. Abbie’s clothes were surely found in the water and common sense would indicate that Liberty’s were too. Conclusion: The theory that best explains the facts is that both girls were found nude. Sources: Rumors, sources close to the family.

There is a new rumor from a very good source stating that DNA, apparently of Unsub, was in fact recovered from the crime scene. However, LE has not been able to match up the DNA with any known collected samples from felons or former felons. Source: A good source in Delphi.

From the same source, there is a new rumor that bootprints were found at the scene, apparently of boots worn by Unsub. This would make sense as LE had some boots in an evidence bag a few days after the killings. They innocuously said that the boots had nothing to do with the crime, but they were probably lying. They probably did not recover Unsub’s actual boots themselves. Why would Unsub discard his boots at the crime scene and walk away shoeless? Makes no sense. It is more likely that LE matched the bootprints to that type and size of boot, implying that Unsub was wearing boots of that make and size at the time of the crime. Sources: LE, source in Delphi.

The girls’ clothing was found in the creek. This was no doubt an attempt by Unsub to destroy any DNA evidence. Source: Statements from reporter at the scene. Common sense indicates that this was an attempt to destroy DNA in the case.

There is an incredible new rumor that victim Abigail Williams, age 13, was pregnant at the time of the attack. It is now known that she definitely had a boyfriend, who was 16 years old. He has been located, and we know his name. No one knows if there is anything to this rumor or not, as it just broke today. Source: A sleuth.

There is now a very gruesome rumor about the attack. The rumor says that Abbie’s body was found with a wooden stick, stake or pointed branch driven into her stomach. In other words, Unsub would have stood over Abbie and plunged the stick into her belly, pinioning her like a shishkebab. If this is true, that it is even more incredible for her to survive the attack and even to crawl around with a stick in her body. Source: A source close to the family.

Tying together both of the shocking new rumors is the suggestion that Unsub knew that Abbie was pregnant, and the stick attack was an attempt to kill the fetus too. One last, “Go to Hell,” and show of contempt for his victim by Unsub before he walked away. Although this makes sense, one wonders how he could have possibly known that she was pregnant given that she  was not very far along. Look at Abbie in the bridge photo. Does she look pregnant in that photo? Don’t think so. So how would Unsub discover that she was pregnant. When people are under the control of a potentially murderous person who is assaulting them with what looks like homicidal intent, a lot of victims make various pleas to their attacker(s) to please spare their lives.

These take the form of appeals such as, “Please, no, I have a wife and three kids!…No, spare me, I am the sole breadwinner for my family of five!,” etc. I am sure there are many more. Victims make all sorts of pleas and engage in various manipulations of the person assaulting them in an attempt to stay alive. Most people do not want to die and will try all sorts of desperate measures in an attempt to not be murdered.

Sometimes they work, the attacker has a change of heart and decides to spare one or more victims. If Abbie pleaded with Unsub that he would be killing not just her but another potential life, then Unsub would have learned of her pregnancy then. Source: Speculation by me and a fellow sleuth attempting to make sense of the stick attack by tying it to the pregnancy theory.

There is now a lot of talk that Ron Logan or perhaps his son were involved in this crime. Logan was arrested recently on a probation violation for a drunk driving case. This set the rumor mill wild as there was much talk that Logan was involved in the murders. He was jailed for a week or so and a secondary search of his land was conducted. Many took this to mean that Logan was the killer. Logan was released after his probation violation hearing, which means that LE does not consider him a suspect in the murders. Furthermore, Logan always seemed an unlikely suspect for me for many reasons. Source: News reports.

There is a new rumor out saying that the case against Ron Logan is completely corrupt and is being led by a man who could care less if Logan did these crimes or not. All this man wants is to see Logan destroyed. This man is another local with whom Logan had a falling out. The man has money and has long wanted to buy Logan’s 40 acres, however, Logan was never willing to sell. Logan’s property is said to be choice land with waterfalls, etc. This man figures if he can get Logan prosecuted for murder or at least have his life ruined by these allegations, then at some point, Logan will sell his land, possibly to pay his legal bills. Anyway, this man figures that ruining Ron Logan will allow this man to somehow acquire Logan’s property. Pretty corrupt. Source: A person close to the families of the victims.

Three other posts in this series:

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in Both the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

The Case for Linking the Delphi Murders with the Evansdale Murders

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Filed under Crime, Criminology, Law enforcement, Midwest, Regional, Serial Killers, Sociology, USA

Destroying Many Myths about Teenage Girl-Adult Man Relationships

Women always want the best.

– Oscar Wilde

I would add teenage girls to that. Women and teenage girls always want the best.

First of all, I would like to point out that one of the main drivers of Teenage Girl Mass Hysteria has been feminist therapists exactly like this woman posting below.

A teenage girl is with an older man. People end the relationship, and everyone starts screaming about how she got abused and molested and damaged and ruined and how now she has to go a therapist now get over her being a victim of “child molestation.” The girl is typically utterly baffled and doesn’t feel 1% harmed by the relationship, which she probably started herself anyway.

They ship her off to the feminist therapist who drills it into her head endlessly about how she was a victim of “child molestation,” about how she is a “child,” presumably the same thing as what are known as little girls, and how if she doesn’t “recover from the damage,” she will be scarred and crippled for the rest of her life.

At first the girl thinks this is insane and stupid and probably wants to slap the therapist. But after a while, the therapist brainwashes her very well. Now the girl is going on and on about how she got molested, abused, raped, damaged and potentially ruined. What was formerly probably the peak experience of her young life is now regarded as a horrorshow of nightmarish abuse. She starts to develop a number of mental symptoms due to all the “abuse” she got. She was quite sane before. She was sane before, and now she’s crazy! Iatrogenic therapist-induced mental disorder. Way to go feminists! Instead of making crazy people sane, you’re doing the opposite. You’re making sane people nuts. Good job! You want a medal for that?

Rebecca Patrick-Howard:

“On another note, how can you possibly “groom” a teenage girl? You can only groom children, and teenage girls are not children.”

Children, teenage girls, and grown women can ALL be “groomed.” Grooming occurs when a power figure (teacher, parent, dominant partner in the relationship) deliberately establishes an emotional connection and relationship with another person in order to exhibit control and to lower their inhibitions, usually for the purpose of exploitation or abuse.

Little by little, a seemingly healthy relationship becomes darker as the person is isolated from their family and friends, suffers mental and physical abuse-and sometimes sexual, becomes mentally and physically dependent upon the other person, and begins suffering from self-esteem issues and other behavioral and mental health problems.

Battered women are “groomed” every day. Just ask the formerly confident, attractive, independent woman who, after years of mental and physical abuse, finds herself kowtowing to their partner’s every wish and demand, losing her autonomy, and finding herself mentally unable to leave the relationship.

Women and teenagers are groomed in a different way. They’re taught to sit quietly without asking questions, to immediately respond to any text or phone call, to put their own needs and desires aside to focus on what their partner wants, to dress and behave in public the way the other person wants, to give in to sexual desires that make make them uncomfortable, to respond to things in a manner in which they are uncomfortable. They’re groomed to do these things in the beginning by being rewarded, just like a dog is rewarded for treats. And later, when they’re not complacent, they’re punished.

Certain women are targeted. Perhaps they appear vulnerable or weak. Or maybe they’re just young. They learn to gain the other person’s trust. They find their needs being met. Then the relationship becomes sexualized. From there, control is maintained. At that point, they’re often so entangled within the relationship that it’s difficult to get out.

If you’d like, I can provide data, research, case studies, and message boards where you can read many experiences from women and teenagers who have been “groomed.” From women and teenagers who have escaped abusive relationships and even sex trafficking situations.

“She probably seduced him. That’s how this stuff usually goes.”

I would like to see citations for peer-reviewed studies that show that the “most men having sex with teenage girls are doing it because the girls seduced them” and that “Also in almost all cases it is consensual”. Because I can tell you, as a woman and former teenage girl, that’s not been MY experience. As a family therapist, that certainly goes against the studies I’ve seen and read – not to mention the experience I’ve had with dozens of my young clients.

Regardless, a 13-year-old is a child. No matter how “mature” they appear, no matter if they’ve started menses or not, no matter if they have the body and vocabulary of a 20-year-old-they’re are NOT a woman. Either legally or emotionally.

Do you have a daughter?

I don’t have one, but if your daughter is a teenage girl, I bet she is pretty angry about the way you are trying to “protect” her from a harmless thing she doesn’t even want to be protected from in the first place! From her point of view, you’re annoying and in the way, big time.

In every case I heard about personally, the girl seduced the man. In all the cases I have read about on the Net, the girl went after the man. Teenage girls like men, you know. They mostly like boys, but there’s definitely a fair number of them who like men too, usually the better looking ones.

And teenage girls did this too me more times than I can count when I was having sex with them from ages 18-21 and then later when all relationships were platonic. I never sought out underage girls even as a young man when I was dating them. I didn’t have to. I just sat back and waited for them to come to me. They approached me or mutual friends said the girl wanted to go out with me. “Hey Bob, do you want to go out with Clarissa (14 year old girl)? She wants to go out with you.”

And I certainly never sought them out as “easy lays,” mostly because they aren’t. Teenage girls are not easy targets. It is actually quite difficult to date them if you are an adult. If we lowered the age of consent right now, it would be murderously difficult for me to date a jailbait. I’m too old for them, and they’re too hard to get anyway.

I have never in my life heard of men seeking out teenage girls as “easy targets.” Why would anyone do that? Girls like men enough that if you are into teenage girls and you are goodlooking and have good Game, all you have to do is sit back and wait for them to come to you, or at least make the first signals.

I have never in my life heard of a man who “could not get a woman his own age,” so he went after teenage girls. It boggles my mind that women and feminists actually believe this ludicrous notion. It doesn’t work that way! If you can’t get a woman your own age, of course you cannot get a teenage girl because they are far harder to date than grown women your own age.

I am 59 years old and although somehow I do date attractive young women in their legal teens through 20’s (against all odds and to my own astonishment), I must say that it is horribly difficult. And when I have to deal with young women in my regular doings around town, most of them look at me like, “Get the Hell away from me, creep!” It was never like that before. It was the opposite. Obviously I am too old for them. This is 100% due to age and 0% due to anything else. Even if it were legal, dating teenage girls would be even harder for me than young women because honestly they harder to get if you are older. The younger the female, the harder it is to get her if you are an older man.

For one thing, teenage girls are much pickier than women. In every case I have known personally, the girls seduced the men, and the men were basically studs, players, playboys, womanizers, or whatever you want to call them. These were good-looking men with great Game who did great with women. Even in the cases I read about in the paper, the girls seem to be targeting the “Alphas.”

I have talked to teenage girls about this, and they told me, “We are not really into older men that much. But if we are at all, we only want the best, the cream of the crop.” Teenage girls are boy-crazy, and they will date all sorts of teenage boys. You don’t have to be an Alpha at that age. Many teenage girls have Beta or even Omega boyfriends. They are not so selective about boys their age. But once you start getting above the boys into the men, teenage girls get far pickier.

Bottom line is as far as I can tell, Beta and especially Omega men cannot even hope to get a teenage girl. Those girls only want the ~20% best men in your age group.

Look at cases in the paper. How many times have you heard of teenage girls pursuing movie directors (Roman Polanski repeatedly), rock stars (Bowie, Steve Tyler, Jimmy Page and surely many others), rich men (Trump, Jeffrey Epstein), teachers (strong authority figure with a good job and better than average smarts), writers (JD Salinger). See? They make a beeline for the best men.

Which has exactly been my experience. There are men out there who are attractive to most of the women. Call them the Alphas. Typically there are a number of women who would gladly date these men. These are the men that “all the women want.” Well, guess what sort of men teenage girls like? Exactly that type. Girls want the same cream of the crop men that the women want. Girls and women are not all that different when it comes to sex. They all want the same thing.

Why on Earth would you get involved with a man if it wasn’t consensual? If it’s not consensual then it’s rape. If it was rape, why didn’t you report it to the police? Color me baffled. You say in your practice you have met many teenage girls who were in nonconsensual relationships with men. Leaving the family aside (where coerced sex with minors is very common) how many girls get into nonconsensual relationships with men? Why would anyone do that? Are you saying that all these girls were raped? That every time they had sex, it was a rape? That’s what nonconsensual means. Rape. If all these girls got raped, why didn’t they report it to the police?

If most of these cases are really rapes and not consensual, why doesn’t LE file rape charges against the men? Instead it’s usually some statutory type charge that merely says his only crime was having sex with a female in some restricted, off-limits age range.

I’ve never heard a typical older man-teenage girl relationship that was not 100% consensual. If it’s not consensual, why would she be there in the first place. Teenage girls are pretty damn smart. You can say that kids don’t have the ability to consent because they are unclear on the concept in the first place. But to conflate the lack of agency of little girls with the wariness, worldliness and sophistication of teenage girls and argue that somehow teenage girls can’t figure out what consent means is nuts. Of course they know what it means. Only kids don’t know, and teenage girls aren’t kids. They’re neither children nor adults. We might as call them girl-women. I know them very well. They are far smarter, wiser and sensible about this stuff than most people think.

Every case I read about in the paper appears to be consensual, especially long-term relationships. How many times have you read that the girl refuses to testify against the man because she loves him, thinks he did nothing wrong or regards the relationship as consensual? I have read that so many times that I can’t count it. She often pleads with the court to release him, saying she hasn’t been harmed in the slightest.

The court disregards the fact that this was a crime involving two people where there somehow was no victim and heaves the guy into prison and throws away the key. In fact, so many teenage girls refuse to testify in these cases that it is almost expected behavior. The only reason the men ever go down is because someone else reported the case. The girl almost never reports the case. Why would she? She’s doing what she wants to do.

This non-testimony is such an epidemic that many states had to dig out their laws and make new laws and rules so that the testimony of the victim was not even required for a conviction. They had to throw out proof of harm because most of these teenage girl fake-victims will swear on a stack of Bibles that they were not harmed at all.

I would say that the one group that is probably most angry at all about this Teenage Girl Mass Hysteria is the girls themselves. Quite a few of them want to get with hot men, but every time they nab one of their dream men, people like you grab her beloved boyfriend and throw him in prison. Hell, the “victims” themselves probably hate this mass hysteria more than anyone else. Most of the “victims” probably hate the law that is supposedly “protecting them.” Isn’t that rather idiotic?

I still don’t believe a woman can be groomed. The author says grooming occurs whenever there is a power discrepancy. Does she realize how often there is a power discrepancy between adult men and adult female sexual partners? Does the author think it should be illegal to “groom” women? Would she propose an anti-grooming law for women victims of grooming?

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Filed under Crime, Feminism, Gender Studies, Girls, Heterosexuality, Jailbait, Law enforcement, Man World, Mass Hysterias, Pedophile Mass Hysteria, Psychology, Psychotherapy, Romantic Relationships, Sane Pro-Woman, Sex, Social Problems, Sociology, Women

Websleuths: One of the More Worthless Sites on the Internet

kbfontenot: Just yesterday I tried to post something from here onto Websleuths and they forbid it. Is there a reason why they would? I am new to their website and do not know all their rules. For the past couple of weeks I have read your posts faithfully and think your take on this case is very interesting and knowledgeable. Are we not allowed to share any of any thing printed here?

I’m not even going to link to that site because it’s a waste of time to even visit it one time.

They hate me over there for no good reason. That site is crap. You can only post stuff from the media or LE, and I’m neither. Since I am neither media nor LE, nothing I say is true. The only bearers of truth, knowledge or even knowing are the anointed ones like the illustrious lying media, law enforcement who won’t tell us one damn thing about anything ever, and I guess God. And Mom.

The rest of us have no knowledge nor do we even have a sense of knowing or the capability of such. Every single thing we think has be to be checked out with “The Knowing Ones” before we decide anything about anything. Other than that, we are supposed to walk around all day saying, “We don’t know…we’re not sure…God hasn’t confirmed that yet…Are you sure?…You can’t trust your own eyes you know – they’re only stupid eyeballs and half the stuff you see isn’t even there.”

They have the most insane skepticism of everything over here. I think the people on that site even question what their own names are. I guess they have to go call the cops or the media or Mommy or whoever to make sure their name is really their name.

This type of lunatic skepticism of almost everything is not helpful, and trust me, detectives do not work this way. They operate on all sorts of things, mostly hunches. They are formulating and revising theories all the time, junking old theories, trying on news ones, getting excited about some POI’s, then junking them when they’re no good, going back over cleared people. The only concepts detectives rely on is hunches, theorizing, opinion making, intuition, assumption and guesswork, all of which is not allowed on that idiot site.

If detectives had to work according to the rules on that idiot site, no crime would ever get solved. Hell, the detectives probably couldn’t even show up for work because in order to even get out of bed in the morning you have to make endless generalizations, guesswork, theorizing, Stereotyping and opinionizing. All of which are outlawed on that asinine website. No crime will ever be solved on Websleuths. They should change that stupid site to Watch Cops Solve Crimes.

You are not allowed to do any sleuthing of any human being ever on that site! There is no sleuthing whatsoever on Web Sleuths! You can’t sleuth POI’s! Tell cops they can’t sleuth POI’s, and see how many crimes get solved. How the Hell do you ever expect to solve one crime ever if you can’t sleuth out POI’s? Rumors? Nope, despite the fact that detectives wallow in such things and never call them that. Opinions? Nope, not really. Stating opinion as fact? This is an essential part of the detective toolkit and this is banned too. Looking at rumors to see if there is anything to any of them. Nope. All rumors are inherently false!

That site is utterly worthless. I never learn one thing when I go there because 95% of the relevant information about the case is banned. So what you have is people throwing MOO, my opinion only, and tossing out all sorts of wild and often idiotic speculation. Those threads are just a case of speculation run amok. A lot of the speculation is idiotic and senseless. You can’t point anything, like see that gun in that photo? Nope, can’t point that out cuz God or the cops or Mommy hasn’t told them it’s really a gun yet.

The narrators are some of the worst narrator Nazis I’ve even seen on the Net. The rules are so restrictive that posting on there is like trying to dance in a room so small you can barely move your arms or your legs. You try to write up a post and you go through five drafts because no matter what you try to say, it seems to be banned under one of their arcane and convoluted rules. The Rules are so nuts and weird and always-changing that I think they were made up by someone with Mongoloid Syndrome.

Just forget Web Sleuths. It’s nothing but a waste of time and a great big circle jerk. Completely pointless.

You want to talk about the case? Come here. We don’t have the answers, but you can say whatever you want and I don’t have my head up my ass like so many people.

Here is another good site where you can say whatever the Hell you want to about the site. It’s called Dreamin’ Demon and it’s for people who are into the dark side of life. They’re sort of sick, but I am starting to think that these sick people have more common sense than all these dogooders out there. They way more sensible than the clowns on Reddit (SJW Central Command) or Facebook (Internet Firing Squad). Mostly really cool people in the threads and they don’t allow hating, which is good as it destroys all communication anyway.

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Filed under Crime, Law enforcement, Lunatics

Updated March 17: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that can be determined from this crime as it was not a pedophilic offense. Instead, this was a hebephilic offense. And the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, although he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Thank you so much for this. I am getting tired of words being misused. And now we are being scientific on the board.

And you all just learned a new word –  hebephile! I will not tell you what it means. Instead I will send you off to discover that yourself, which is not difficult at all.

Huge update with major changes in my analysis of the case.

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is an update of the case as of March 17, 2017. Some updates to address criticisms, though obviously nothing that I could possibly write here would ever shut up the haters.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and borderline areas such as cryptic statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and law enforcement investigation of this case. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. Some were associated with missing persons groups. I have pretty good sleuthing skills involving research. This includes digging through background information databases online and other sorts of web research. However, I will say that I am getting my very best information from people who are close to the girls’ families. Of all of the  rumors and information I get, this is some of the best.

This is the source of some of my material.

Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case. This includes offender profiling.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

I am really getting sick and tired of saying this, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. The only thing that is represented as fact as statements sourced from LE or the media.

And incidentally, the way I wrote up the case is precisely how detectives work a case. Detectives do not work cases using the scientific method. If they did, they would hardly solve one case. It’s more “We believe this for now…this is true for now…at the moment, this is what we think happened…we believe…” They are throwing out endless theories about what really happened and accepting them as (temporary) facts. They are then continuously revising and throwing out theories and creating new ones.

Being  a detective is about being wrong. Not just once, but being wrong over and over so many times your head will want to come off. If you can’t handle being wrong, then detective work is surely not for you. Finally detectives arrive at enough information to file a case against someone, but a lot of that is not factual either. They believe he did the crime. They believe that this, that, or the other happened with no way to really prove it – it’s just what they conjecture.

If he is convicted, then the theory that he did the crime is validated as fact, but I am not sure what other evidence is. And even court decisions are not scientific fact because they get overturned all the time. There are not a whole lot of 100% certain, clear scientific facts in LE work, detective work on the judicial system itself. A good portion of the decisions made turn out to be theories, temporary but unstable facts, beliefs, hunches and guesswork, all represented as fact in the court.

If you have issues with theories, opinions and what not, just quit reading and get the Hell off my site right now and never come back. I am really getting sick and tired of this BS.

I am pessimistic once again about this case. It seems that are so many fantastic suspects and POI’s that I can’t even keep track of them. That’s a b ad sign right there.

My Musings on This Case

Rumors state that Libby was killed on 2-13, possibly pretty quickly, and Abby died or 2-14. The published obits state those dates. This has been confirmed to me by sources close to law enforcement. There is a rumor that the families chose those dates as death dates. Obit info is supposed to come from coroner’s report.

However, new information shows that funeral parlors and even newspaper obits do not follow standard policy, which is to go by the coroner’s report. Instead, many funeral houses and newspaper obits simply list the dates of death as whatever the family said they were, or perhaps they toss coins to see which day it was,  or God knows what they do.

Anyway, it’s all pretty unprofessional, and we cannot take obit dates and funeral notices to mean much of anything necessarily. Conclusion: Nobody knows. Libby died in 2-13 and Abbie may have too, or perhaps she died on 2-14. People close to the case are giving both scenarios as absolute proven fact,  and they can’t both be true. This is still completely up in the air as far as I can tell. Sources: People close to LE, obituaries, funeral notices, people who worked in industries that used these, complaints from haters.

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself. Source: My speculation based on the nature of the offense and the obvious skill involved.

Although catfishing rumors were prominent early on for some very good reasons, these rumors have died down and are now weak. At the moment, catfishing appears unlikely. If you do not know what catfishing is, look it up. Sources: Rumor mill.

Unsub is 5’10, 180 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch.  Other sleuths and common citizens are offering differing views, but I take the expert for now. Source: Expert on CNN, paunch obvious in photo.

Unsub’s age is ~60, but really who knows. At the very least, that style of pants is outdated and nowadays is only worn by men over 40 in that area. Presence of fanny pack also indicates an older man. They were popular in the late 1980’s, but I am told that hardly anyone wears them anymore except for some older guys. Conclusion about age: I don’t think anyone knows how old he is. Until we get some experts weighing in here, this is all just shooting in the dark. Sources: LE stated that he had a fanny pack. My estimate on age. Info on fanny packs and jeans style by people looking at the photos.

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Excellent new drawing of Unsub from an LE artist.

LE believes that Unsub came from out of state to do this crime. Source: Recent remark by Indiana State Police quoted in media, my theory based on my favorite POI.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 1911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Assuming that is a pistol, and it is, then Unsub is left-handed. Source: Gun is obviously visible in photograph. Left-handedness concluded from the holstered gun pointing backwards on the right side.

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Photo clearly shows a semiautomatic .911 or 45 mm handgun holstered on his right, which means he is lefthanded. That’s either a gun, or I’m a monkey’s uncle. Incredibly, about 85% of the people who see this photo insists that’s not a gun, or that it can’t be a gun until God or the cops or Mom or whoever tells us what we are seeing with our own two eyes. I don’t know about the rest of you, but I have two eyeballs. When my eyes tell me I am seeing something, I take it as proven fact. Apparently we humans are not supposed to believe our own eyes!

Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. Source: LE statement.

Unsub is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing. Part of this is no doubt to disguise himself, but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body where the girls could leave scratch marks if the girls fight back hard, although they still could scratch up his face pretty well. Source: LE statements about clothing. Statement about type of cap is my conjecture from the photo. Reason for being heavily dressed is common sense for an offender preparing to commit rape and murder.

Fanny pack is probably where he kept his murder kit. Sources: LE statement quoted in the media. Murder kit is my conjecture. What else is in there? A first aid kit?

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GIF image of Unsub photos run together.

There has been much talk about whether or not there were two murderers or one. It is not yet proven that there were two killers, and LE is leaning towards the theory that there was one killer. However, even LE themselves described the perpetrators of this crime as “the murderers.” And from the very start, they referred to Unsub as a participant instead of a suspect. Participant is almost never used unless LE thinks there is more than one killer.

Police are now walking this back by saying that it’s standard procedure to assume maybe more than one killer in a homicide case, but that’s not even true so they must think we are stupid. It isn’t. There was some specific reason why they thought there were two killers in this case, and we do not know what that reason was. At any rate, they seem to be walking the two killers theory back too, and they are leaning towards one killer. Conclusion: Two killers or one? Take your pick. No one knows! Source: Very strange LE statements.

There have been persistent rumors since even before the case was released to the media (these early rumors coming from family members) that Abbie survived til the next day, 2-14. The rumors were that she was found alive but died on the way to the hospital, that she was alive when found but died soon after, that the coroner said she survived the attack but died of hypothermia the next day, that her body was still warm when found, etc.

These have been strong rumors. Now there is aggressive criticism of this theory from people who insist that both girls died on 2-13. Which begs the question again of how and why all the survival stories even got started in the first place. I told a detective that I thought Abbie had died the next day and he didn’t tell me I was wrong. Acted very surprised and intrigued and wanted to know why I thought that. It didn’t seem as if he was discounting the theory at any rate. Conclusion: No one knows. Did the girls die the same day or did Abbie somehow linger on denying all odds until the next day? No one knows! There’s talk in both directions. Once again, flip a coin. Sources: Rumors, people close the family, people close to LE.

Early rumors from the search party stating that the girls had to have been moved since the dump site found on 2-14 had been searched on 2-13 are apparently in error. The area of the dump site was not even searched on 2-13 due to lack of permission from the owner. That area was only searched the morning of 2-14. Also these poor girls were covered with leaves, which would have made them very hard to find at night.

The best analysis now seems to be that the murders and rapes happened soon after the girls were abducted, not long after Unsub ordered them “Go down the hill.” The entire south side of the creek was roped off as a crime scene, so no doubt this was where the girls were raped and murdered sometime after 3 PM 2-13. So why no noise? No one heard? How do you rape and murder two girls in broad daylight without anyone hearing?

Anyway, after the girls were raped and homicidally attacked, apparently the bodies were somehow moved across the stream, once again without anyone seeing, to the north side of the creek where the bodies were dumped. No one has any explanation of why the killer moved the bodies as they would seem too heavy and it would seem to be a stupid thing to do. Source: People close to the search party, people close to the case. Common sense from LE talk implying that the murders occurred very soon after Unsub’s voice recording.

There is another theory from people close to the family saying that the actual killings took place on the north side of the creek, perhaps after a race across the creek with the killer in pursuit. However, it was the south side that was roped off as a crime scene, not the north side. Yes the tape was removed two days later, but so what? This is standard procedure in a park. Also the north side or at least the area of the dump site was described as pristine. How does a murder site look pristine? It doesn’t. Conclusion: Theory that girls were killed on the north side of the creek seems quite weak. The south side as a kill site seems much better. Sources: People close to the family, rumors.

There is indeed a voice recording of Unsub saying, “Go down the hill.” This was recorded heroically by Libby by turning on the recorder on her phone as the girls were being abducted. The sound recording of the crime is said to be much longer than what was released. It has also been implied, terrifyingly, that the sound recording is actually the recording of the rapes and murders. That probably makes it one of the worst sound recordings made in a crime case in some time, going back to the Toolbox Murders in 1979

What is on the unreleased portion of the tape? After Unsub says, “Go down the hill,” at some point not long after that, you hear both girls screaming. Source: People close to the family.

There is talk of a Ford Mustang that can be barely seen in  lower left of the photo of Abbie on the bridge below the bridge. It is very hard to make out, but it could well be a vehicle. How it was determined to be a Ford Mustang and a white one at that is not known. It is not yet known how this vehicle was involved in the case. The best analyses are that the girls were not placed in this car but instead that this car was either simply in the area for some innocuous reason or that the car was involved in the crime but in some other way than placement or transporting of the girls. Perhaps that is Unsub’s vehicle. Who knows?

The road that it is parked on  is a very little used road that almost no one has even heard of. It appears to have been a road used by workers to maintain  the bridge. Access to it is quite difficult and involves some convoluted twists and turns of road, not to mention that part of the access is via a private driveway. It does seem very odd to me that that car is in that location right before the girls got abducted. I am thinking that that car does not belong there at all and that it is significant to the case in some unknown way. Source: Sleuths analyzing the photo of Libby on the bridge, people close to the family

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The vehicle can barely be seen circled in blue, or maybe you can’t make it out at all. This photo has now been enhanced.

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The vehicle is still hard to make out in this enhanced photo, but if you look very carefully, you might be able to see a car. Or maybe you won’t. Squint and try your luck.

Libby’s grandfather who raised her made an odd statement, “I know Libby. She put up one Hell of a fight.” He is correct that Libby put up a strong battle. The reason that the grandfather said she put up a wild fight is probably because that is what it says in the medical report. If she fought hard, there will be talk of defensive wounds and maybe DNA under her nails. The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds because she had many small wounds on her body and face. In that case, Unsub may have scratch marks. Source: Media reports and statements from people at the funeral. Common sense that the only way the grandfather would known that she fought hard was if he saw the coroners’ report.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was probably used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet, probably with the gun. However, I do not believe the gun was used to kill the girls. It would have made too much noise. Rumors that this was not a gun crime are correct. Source: Common sense that the gun would be the best way to control the girls and common sense that a gun crime would have involved audible gunshots. No gunshots were heard, so doubtless there was no gun fired in this crime.

There is a rumor that both girls had their throats slit. This is a strong rumor. Funerals were open casket, and both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit. There are two rumors about the knife attack on one of the girls. A weak rumor says she was decapitated. The strong rumor says she was nearly decapitated. A decapitation would have been hard for a funeral director to hide and both girls had their heads on at the funeral. Of the two rumors, the strong one looks better. Which girl they are referring to is not known. Sources: Rumors, very first reports of the crime from family members. Later confirmation from people close to LE. Statements by people at the funeral.

A new rumor says that both girls were beaten so badly in their faces that they were nearly unrecognizable. This rumor may well be true, but at least Abbie was fixed up pretty good in her face for the funeral, so one wonders how a funeral director could have covered up such devastating wounds. Source: Source close to the family.

This offense was clearly sexually motivated, and it seems quite clear that sexual assault occurred in the course of the crime. There are a number of rumors about this, but the best analysis now is that at least one girl was raped and found nude. That would be Abbie. There are different stories about whether Libby was nude or clothed and whether she was raped or not. Looking at these stories, there is no way to tell what is true. At the moment, we don’t know if Libby was raped or not and we do not know if she was clothed or not. It’s up in the air. Sources: Very first reports of the crime from family members and later confirmation from people close to LE, general rumors, sources close to family.

The girls’ clothing was found in the creek. This was no doubt an attempt by Unsub to destroy any DNA evidence. Source: Statements from reporter at the scene. Common sense indicates that this was an attempt to destroy DNA in the case.

Ron Logan, the property owner where the girls were found, was in Lafayette, Indiana on 2-13, and Unsub may have known he would not be there, but there is no proof of this. How he may have known this, I have no idea. Source: Media.

There is now a lot of talk that Ron Logan or perhaps his son were involved in this crime. Logan was arrested recently on a probation violation for a drunk driving case. This set the rumor mill wild as there was much talk that Logan was involved in the murders. This never seemed likely to me for many reasons. LE has now affirmed that Logan was not involved in the case. Source: News reports.

There has been much talk of Jimmy Duvall possibly being Unsub. Duvall committed a serious crime against an 11 year old girl quite some time ago when he was 23. A month before, he had committed a similar offense. The judge said he had a character disorder. This typically means a personality disorder and used in a case like this, means that he no doubt has Antisocial Personality Disorder. In other words, Duvall is a sociopath or a psychopath. He served a good ~25 years for this crime and was released ~8 years ago.

He has apparently not offended since he has been released. Mr. Duvall was taken in for questioning early in this case and was asked to give a DNA sample. He then returned to his job at the auto plant. Rumors say that Duvall took 2-13 off as the first day off work in years and has since disappeared. Neither rumor is correct. Yes, Duvall took 2-13. After all, it was his day off, why wouldn’t he? And he has not actually disappeared. My understanding is that he is at home taking a sick leave.

His creepy Facebook page was the subject of much discussion. It portrayed a man obsessed with evil, death, the Devil, murder and other pleasant themes. He also seemed to be a man struggling very had against his antisocial urges. No doubt he has a paraphilia and of course he is sociopathic. But he’s paid his debt to society and he’s been a good boy since he was released.

And the best analysis is that LE has cleared Duvall of participation in this crime. Nevertheless, the rumor mill continues to run wild accusing Duvall of having committed this crime. I doubt it. For one, he is too short and he is much too heavy.  Duvall is 5’8 and weighs 230 pounds. Unsub is 5’8, 180 pounds. Sources: Rumors, news reports, Duvall’s Sex Offender Registry page and his Facebook page.

Three other posts in this series:

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in Both the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

The Case for Linking the Delphi Murders with the Evansdale Murders

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

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Filed under Crime, Criminology, Law enforcement, Midwest, Regional, Serial Killers, Sociology, USA

What’s with All the Rape and Sex Crimes?

You have to go through a regional paper that segregates articles by theme to actually realize the extent of rape-type sexual offenses, including rape and murder.

Child molestation is a whole other ball of wax, and it’s complicated by the drooling, psychotic autism of calling adults who have sex with teenagers pedophiles and child molesters, but I am absolutely stunned at the number of men who are having sex with actual children, like girls 12-under. And a surprising number of them involve violence too. Are all these guys pedophiles?

Pedophiles are only one of the four types of child molesters.

80-93% of child molesters are non-pedophiles. They’re just criminals. They’re not into girls any more than any other guy. They do this because these are aggressive, manipulative, amoral, probably somewhat sociopathic men who take advantage of young girls due to the fact that they are an easy target. Most of this is familial. On Indian reservations in Canada where it is estimated that 100% of girls are molested, most of the molesting is familial. It’s Daddy or Uncle or Grandpa or whoever.

The others are familial, opportunistic, trysexual and psychopathic.

I won’t deal with the first three right now.

Psychopathic child molesters differ from pedophilic ones in that they have no preference for prepubescent girls. Their sexual orientation age-wise is as normal as any other man’s: They are maximallly attracted to females age 16-up, and progressively less attracted as age goes down. Psychopathic child molesters molest girls because they have no morals, and they have a “screw anything that moves” attitude. A girl, a woman, what differenced does it make? All potential targets. Sure, he doesn’t prefer girls, but they will do in a pinch.

The problem with automatically treating all child molesters as psychologically disordered and having a paraphilia is that most of them are probably neither. They’re not nuts in any way. They’re just criminals. If they don’t prefer girls for sex more than any other man, there’s no sexual disorder to treat.

“Screw anything that moves” is not a sexual disorder. “Take advantage of naive daughters and nephews” is not a sexual disorder. “No morals” is not a sexual disorder. “Manipulative scumbag” is not as sexual disorder. My understanding is that most of these guys get labeled pedophiles and thrown in to pedophile treatment programs. It’s really dubious how many of them get helped by these programs especially when there’s nothing much to fix. Worse many them get labeled “mentally disordered sex offenders.” That means they have a mental disorder, in this case a sexual disorder. See any sexual disorders above? Neither do I.

Obviously true fixated pedophiles need to be in a program. Even out of incarceration, they should probably be in regular therapy to keep them from offending or re-offending.

But when a man’s problem is not that he’s a pedophile but that he’s a psychopathic monster, how are these pedophile treatment programs supposed to help him? How are they supposed to help Weird Uncle who prefers women but goes after girls in a sleazy pinch? They can’t.

I would wager that most of these men, if they have any disorder at all, have an impulse control disorder. That’s not in the DSM yet. But just you wait. It would be a bad idea to put Impulse Control Disorder into the DSM because we just labeled half the population crazy. Probably 50% of the population can’t control their impulses well.

Are there treatment programs that teach men how to control their impulses? No idea. Are there programs that aim to impart morals into a morally barren human? Probably, but how good is that going to work. How do you create something that was never there?

I am starting to wonder what the Hell is the matter with us men. I’ve never done anything like this, not even date rape. I don’t get the appeal. If she’s not willing, it’s no fun, right? If she doesn’t want to do it, shrug your shoulders and say, “Fine, I will sleep on the couch then.” Trust me, she will get up in the middle of the night and drag you back to her room. An abundance mindset is always helpful. I guess I have raped if you count the feminist daffynition of rape, but the feminists are so insane on this subject that they would put 50 million men in prison. The feminist definition of rape isn’t even rape. It’s not nothing. It’s just junk, like most anything a feminut says.

But this stuff below is the real deal. As much as I dislike feminists, I am starting to se why so many of them starting hating us men. We’re pretty hateable you know. Hell, I don’t even like men, and I’m a guy!

I’ve been dating some women around age 50. Nearly every single one of them had either been raped. And they had all had a man try to kill them. I figure by age 50, most women in the US have either been raped by a man or had a man try to kill them. That’s pretty sorry.

Ladies I would like to apologize on behalf of all men for the despicable behavior of my gender. It’s an outrage what we do to you. The rapes, the assaults, the beatings, the kidnappings, the imprisonment, the attempted murders and the murders. I can’t believe what you put up with from us. Sometimes I wonder why any of you like any of us anymore.

If you a law-abiding citizen who rarely if ever commits a crime that victimizes the innocent, or at least one who stays out of jail for more than 5-10 hours in their life, the background level of crime in society is absolutely stunning. Sure you’re likely to avoid being a victim of a serious crime, at least this year, but the sheer numbers of crimes occurring in normal everyday America is mind-blowing. And these are just sexual crimes, some of the worst of all.

If you start doing research on less serious but still victimizing crimes, the number of them occurring on any given day even in your area is out of this world. It’s hard to understand how many heedless fools there are out there who are not inhibited by the threat of imprisonment. And there’s a Hell of a lot of sick fucks out there. Incredible how many sickos are running around. It boggles the mind.

Keep in mind this is just this year and the year’s barely even getting started. And in just this one country with 4% of the world’s population. So multiply these cases by 25.

And fully 70% of the cases below that occurred in this year alone happened in only two states, North Carolina and Florida.

And then you think about this factoid that only 4% of rape cases ever result in incarceration and it’s even more shocking. So there’s 25X more of this stuff happening that perpetrators are getting away with.

Autopsy: New Mexico girl was raped and strangled on 10th birthday, had STD when she died

Jesus.

Couple charged in ‘rape-murder fantasy’ killing of girl, 14, prosecutors say

Wow, no words. Good Lord! Her own Mom was involved in the imprisonment, beating, torturing, drugging and raping of this girl. I’ve heard of Moms being driven batty by unruly teens, but isn’t this a bit extreme?

 

Florida man held girlfriend for 2 weeks, raped her and used pliers to rip her nails off

Another girlfriend rape, but this guy threw a lot of violence into the mix. This guy needs to get together with Pliers Bittaker.

Sex offender wearing electronic monitor accused of raping woman in NC

Darwin award.

Man accidentally confesses to rape during police job interview

Date rape. OK, you’re a jerk and an idiot. Enjoy your Darwin Award in jail. Perhaps you can tape it to the wall.

Woman stabs man who allegedly tried to rape her, escapes attack

Good for her, but what’s his problem? She stabbed the guy who was trying to rape her. Damn.

Brother of Panthers tight end Greg Olsen given $103,000 bond on rape charges

Hmmm, wait. He raped his own longterm girlfriend? How is that even possible?

Man accused of sexual assault in Burlington arrested

What the Hell is your problem?

Man allegedly pulled gun, attempted to sexually assault woman after she turned down grilled cheese

This one is actually funny. He’s a rapist and a stand-up comedian!

Burlington middle school teacher accused of statutory rape

This last one is the only one I feel sorry for. But she’s 45! And the boy was 15! Jesus. Anyway, it was probably the best thing that ever happened to that kid so far in his life and it looks like his teacher is teaching him a bit more than readin, writin and arithmetic, no?

All right. So what do we do with this silly woman who has an Impulse Control Disorder in the sense that’s not able to inhibit her desires or separate thoughts from actions. Not to mention heedless and foolhardy. This retarded society is probably going to give this cougar 5 years for her extracurricular tutoring of this fortunate young man. Then, our special needs society is going to make this dingbat woman register as a sex offender for the rest of her life when all her victim proabably said was, “Thanks Mom, I mean teacher.”

So what would I do? What do you do when there’s nothing to be done but throw up your hands.

Fire her. Pull her credential. Make it so she can never teach again. That ought to be good enough. If she can’t find a job, I suppose she can always become a cougar porn star. I recommend she specialize in the Mommy-son fantasy market.

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