Alt Left: Identity Politics Is about What You Are, Not What You Do or Believe In

Zamfir: So what is your basis for objecting to whites who hate non-whites or Muslims who hate non-Muslims?

I don’t like haters, especially those who hate others for something as core to the self as race or religion. I don’t believe in hating whole races or religious groups. You can’t change your race at all and it’s hard to change your religion. You are born with your race and often with your religion.

I don’t like bigots.

I also don’t hate people for their ethnicity, nationality, sexual orientation, or even gender identity. I have better things to do than to hate people for what they are. And them being what they are doesn’t impact me much anyway, so why be a hater?

I’m not going to hate someone for being foolish, suicidal, para-suicidal, self-destructive, dysfunctional, miserable, crazy (unless they are dangerously crazy), or idiotic. They’re only hurting themselves anyway. Why hate folks who only hurt themselves. They’re not hurting me. I only hate people who are hurting me or want to hurt me.

I’m not going to hate anyone for picking the wrong parents. How can I hate someone for picking the wrong parents to give birth to them?

I hate certain people for what they believe, true, but even with those people, I have some acquaintances who believe in these philosophies and I am still friendly to them. These people have chosen of their own free will be believe some really lousy things, things that hurt me and my own and the rest of the country. If their ideas are implemented, I and my own get harmed and the whole country gets messed up. It’s ok to hate people for having shitty ideals and mindsets. They can change their philosophies, ideals and mindsets any time they want. No one is forcing them to believe all this awful stuff.

These people are out to hurt me, and a number of them have hurt me, mostly my feelings, but still. If their ideas get put in, my life is going to suffer in a huge way. So I hate them believing in these projects that are going to hurt me so much. They’re basically actively trying to harm me and I don’t appreciate that and I reserve the right to hate anyone who is trying to harm me.

Zamfir: And, strangely, you seem to express a lot of hate and contempt towards those outside the group you identify with.

LOL, I hate paranoid, thin-skinned hater nutcases? Maybe so, my friend, but so do most people. These are the types of people who tend to get banned from every bar in town.

Class is not an identity. And identity is part of your true self in general and it is not something that is easily changed. Class is not some integral part of oneself the same way your race, nationality, sexual orientation, gender or even religion are. It’s just a philosophy. No one thinks class is identity politics, except for you I guess.

Having a collective interest is not the same thing as a hard and fast identity like race, ethnic group, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, or even religion. Collective interests are just philosophies, goals and interests that people take up in life. It’s stuff they do, not stuff they are. And you can change your interests or philosophy any time you want. It’s not a hard to change part of your core self.

Political movements are not core, difficult to change identities of the self in the same way that race, ethnicity, nationality, gender, sexual orientation of even religion are. They are just political philosophies, collections of ideas that people take up and push because they believe in those ideas and value them. Anyone can change their politics anytime they want. Not even now, I mean yesterday. That fast Political movements are what you do, not what you are. It’s just a personal philosophy of life, a set of ideas, values, goals, etc.

Zamfir: Seems like this is just the nature of democratic politics in a pluralist society: people vote to secure the interests of groups they belong to and care about.

I just told you the difference between ideas and core parts of oneself, often unchangeable. It’s the difference between what you do and believe in and what you are. Most sane politics is about what people do or what philosophies they believe in about how society should be run. That’s not an identity. Philosophies are not identities.

Not one person on Earth thinks that all movements of collective interests or political movements are identity politics. Not one. Except you I guess.

Zamfir: You even say you’d take away the rights of others to benefit your group.

No I wouldn’t. When did I ever say that? I wouldn’t take away rights from anyone of any identity group based on their core self. I would not take away rights from women, gays, transsexuals, Jews, or people of any religion, ethnicity, or nationality. I certainly would not take away their rights to benefit my own group. Are you kidding?

 

 

3 Comments

Filed under Left, Philosophy, Political Science, Politics, Sociology

3 responses to “Alt Left: Identity Politics Is about What You Are, Not What You Do or Believe In

  1. Zamfir

    “Having a collective interest is not the same thing as a hard and fast identity like race, ethnic group, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, or even religion.”

    Okay, I didn’t understand that “identity” for you has to do with only these kinds of characteristics. But then I’d put it this way: Any group of people that share collective interests can have good reasons to organize politically in defense of their interests. It doesn’t matter whether the reason has to do with their “identity” in your sense or instead something less “hard and fast” such as economic class.

    “Not one person on Earth thinks that all movements of collective interests or political movements are identity politics. Not one. Except you I guess.”

    I never thought about that. Maybe I’m not using the term “identity politics” in the normal way. Or maybe other people should consider class-based politics a kind of identity politics? I don’t think it really matters.

    What matters is that people in the same economic class will often have reasons to get together and fight for their shared interests; but in the same way, people who share a religion or ethnicity will also have reasons sometimes to get together and fight for their shared interests.

    To me that seems fine and normal in both cases–depending on the context and their goals, of course. So I still don’t really understand why doing that on the basis of a “core” or “hard and fast” characteristic such as race or religion or culture is bad.

    Now, again, it would be bad if they were organizing to do really bad things to other groups. I don’t approve of gays organizing to try to convert children to being gay, for example. I don’t approve of blacks organizing to try to kill white people. But those are special cases.

    Suppose a bunch of Muslims get together to fight the school board, because the school board wants to teach their kids that it’s normal to be gay. That seems fine to me. (Though I would probably not support them.) Or maybe white Americans come together as white Americans to defend their heritage and restrict mass immigration. That seems fine to me too.

    You seem to be arguing that people should never organize collectively for any reason except leftist economic reasons–or maybe that, if they do organize for any other reason, they have to organize as the entire human race or the entire population of citizens or something.

    Though even if it’s just all citizens and not all humans, that would be a kind of “identity politics” in your sense, it seems… Is that what you’re saying? Because that seems arbitrary to me. I think there are many groups we all belong to, many motivations and goals we can share with some but not all other people… so many reasonable forms of collective political action. Maybe I’m not understanding you.

  2. Jason Y

    I was hated for just going overseas to Asia and nothing more. Someone is saying white IP isn’t insane? To this day, they’re still insulting me about it

    OK, I have a sense of humor and can joke around. But this is massively disrespectful and nothing to laugh off.

  3. Jason Y

    Also, you cannot express any culturally left wing views here (Tennessee) without being picked on – even in 2018! And I don’t mean, dressing in drag, but just saying anything nice about non-whites at all!

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