Alt Left: “Why I am Not an MRA”

I continue to say that Ryan England is one of our finest Alt Left thinkers. I say that in part because I agree with him so much. I would put him up there with Brandon Adamson, who I also agree with a lot. And both Brandon and Ryan are two of the finest writers, as in prose stylists, in our movement.

I have reputation for being so radical and nuts that I am almost persona non grata in this movement. I know that posts linking to me have been removed from the Alternative Left that Ryan started. Apparently I am “raciss” or something. It takes almost nothing to get called that anymore. Just be a bit honest, and you’re done. I also have a reputation, via Lord Keynes, for being an extremist on the Cultural Left.

It is said that I have some extreme positions on the SJW Left. He is also rather astonished at how socially conservative I am. But I am not a social conservative at all. My views are Democratic Party’s Official Platform 1995. That these views are now seen as just as socially conservative as Roy Moore is quite astonishing, but it shows just how fast the runaway clown car train called the Cultural Left Freakshow has gone in just ~20 years. And indeed I am not just a conservative. I am also a reactionary. I want to roll back the clock – to Democratic Party 1995. That this is considered Troglodytism is one again a symptom of the disease.

Part of the controversy was that I supported Antifa. That makes you almost persona non grata on the Alt Left. It was said that I had moved to the extreme Left. That’s hardly possible as I have always been there. I was on the mailing list for the Weathermen for Chrissakes. After that, I was buying guns for the Marxist rebels in El Salvador. And I haven’t budged since.

The funny thing is that despite my supposed extremism, I find myself agreeing with Ryan England (who is actually himself quite a radical Left type on the Alt Left) a very good part of the time. This post could have been written by me, but I am not eloquent or disciplined enough to have done so, so Ryan had to do it. If you want to know where I stand on the issue of feminism, etc. (I am supposedly an MRA radical) just read this post. I am as MRA as Ryan is. That our mild views are now MRA shows just again just how insane the “normal” has gotten now. Yep, you read that right. Crazy is the new normal. Sane is new bigotry and reaction.

Not going to say much more about this except that I hope it spurs some comments. Like Ryan, I am also a feminist. I came out of the feminist movement back when it meant something. Once again the crazy train left me stranded at the station holding flowers and jilted once again. I still support liberal feminism, sex positive feminism (though if Jezebel is the definition, I have my worries) and equity feminism. I think Ryan might want to identify as a masculinist or Men’s Liberationist. These are the left wings of the MRA movement to the extent that they exist at all. One can be both a masculinist and a feminist and the demands of basic equality nearly mandate it.

I have scarcely seen an article that lays out the poison of modern feminism so eloquently and accurately. Once again, his words are mine. My principal beef with feminism is outlined here by my alter ego, Ryan.

Read and enjoy.

Why I am not an MRA

By Ryan England

Feminism 101

Doesn’t it want to make you swoon?

 

I know I’m going to catch flak for this, but I don’t care much for the men’s rights movement. I do think they make good points – I’ve read Warren Farrell for example and found his work quite profound. In fact, it really takes a wrecking ball to this idea that men have conspired to make the world a wonderful place at the expense of women. You can’t reasonably believe that after reading Farrell’s works.

Why I don’t really relate to the MRM is rooted in my overarching distrust of identity politics. I do think that there’s all kinds of room to criticize the excesses of feminism, and some points made by the MRM are valuable in that regard.  Decades of ideological protectionism has produced a very real feminist echo chamber with next to no external checks on its claims.  The MRM can by helpful in remedying that.  The MRM also brings our attention to real issues that men are confronted with.  Glaring disadvantage (to varying degrees depending on jurisdiction) in divorce settlements and child custody arrangements being the most obvious example.

The feminist demonization of male heterosexuality; this presumption underlying much of feminist theory that male sexual attraction towards women is somehow demeaning and objectifying of women is something else that needs to be challenged and the present taboo against disagreeing with feminism desperately needs to be broken here.  The MRM can help in that regard.  The equation of compliments and polite civil greetings on part of men towards women with harassment, objectification or even oppression, commonly seen on social media, is a manifestation of this.  If taken at all seriously, especially in any kind of public policy context, this kind of thinking could effectively close the door on prospects for male-female encounters of all but the most institutional kind.

The ever expanding definition of rape, and the ever narrowing definitions of consent, and the increasingly onerous requirements for obtaining legal consent – an express verbal “yes” given for every touch, kiss or caress, and even that be nullified if there’s any alcohol or mental illness or any factor that could in the slightest call into question the strict legal capacity to give consent, constitute another manifestation of this.  The end game here, I suspect, is to make legal intercourse, for all intents and purposes, impossible for men.

Although most feminists profess to disagree in principle with the notion that all things “boy meets girl” are inherently sexist or oppressive – and may even trot out their own relationship as proof of this, the restrictions imposed on gender dynamics by these kinds of very popular demands made by very widely circulated and credible media outlets that represent the mainstream of liberal opinion on gender issues, would make establishing even platonic, let along erotic relationships extremely difficult.

That many feminists choose to make exceptions to their own rules for themselves and the men they get the D from should not be taken as proof of feminism’s flexibility and open mindedness.  It should be taken as proof of moral hypocrisy on part of the feminists so doing, and a tacit admission on their part that their system of sexual morality and conduct is no more reasonable and in alignment with human nature than that of the religious conservatives they so smugly see themselves as superior to.

Compound that with inundation of  feminist perspectives casting heterosexual relationships in so consistently negative a light; as being about nothing other than unequal distribution of domestic labor, unequal pay, riven with male insecurity and unreasonable male behaviors contrasted to the relief women are expected to seek and experience in all-female spaces, as characterized by universally poor male sexual performance and an expectation of female preference for marital celibacy, dildos, lesbianism, asexuality, promiscuity, anything other than relational intimacy – all hermetically sealed by a propensity to yell “fragile male ego” at any dissention from any of the above on part of men – as if this kind of petty weaponized rejection is something we should just sit back and relish, and feminist gender dynamics become a mortal threat to healthy heterosexual relationships, even if it turns out to be death by a thousand cuts rather than a swift beheading.

A strong MRM could be a countervailing force for reason and love in gender relations.  On the other hand, groups like MGTOW could just up the ante and make things worse rather than better.  Don’t get me wrong: you, dear reader, be you male or female, have every right as far as I’m concerned to live your life as you see fit, and if that involves not having a significant other of the opposite sex, good luck to you.  I once wanted an unattached life myself.  May you succeed where I failed.

But to advocate widespread rejection of the opposite sex, as feminism often implicitly and, in the case of separatist feminism, explicitly does, and MGTOW likewise does, is to advocate for the infliction of protracted neurosis and frustration culminating in a demographic holocaust upon whichever population is to embrace this as a form of gender based political activism.  It would inflict incalculable and irreparable damage on the psychological fabric of such a society.

But even a less strident form of male activism than MGTOW could end up becoming a gender flipped version of the worst aspects of feminism.  I’ve noticed that in every debate I’ve ever read between feminists and MRAs – though flame war is a better description in just about ever case, since debate implies a reasoned exchange of views and that’s most definitely not what happens – the exchange always boils down to each side saying to the other, “you’re just ugly and can’t get laid” – with cats and mother’s basements figuring in there somehow. Inevitably, one side resigns in frustration over the strident unreasonableness of the other, and both remain more convinced than ever that the opposite sex is hopelessly screwed up.  There’s not much of a future in this.

Taken to their logical conclusions, demands upon heterosexual relationships would end up more closely resembling shari’a law than they would anything previous generations of liberal feminists struggled and fought for.

Wait a minute …

Of course,  feminism – in its more reasonable forms, is still needed to protect and safeguard the rights of women. Life is certainly not all wine and roses for all women at all times, and men are not blameless. This is especially true in communities where, for religious reasons, women still very much are second class citizens.

This is what I find both astounding and disturbing about What looks like an alliance of feminists and Islamists, particularly in opposition to the Trump presidency.  While I don’t condone the more boorish things Trump has said about women, you can’t compare the danger posed to women by macho locker room bluster with the danger posed to women by shari’a law.  Given the dour attitudes that both feminists and Islamists appear to have towards free and fun expression of happiness and attraction between the sexes, however, I can see the kinship the two might have with one another, though from where I sit, it promises to be a stormy relationship.

What I worry about regarding the MRM, though, is its own potential to become a kind of rank gender partisanship. That “Male good female bad” thinking could, and does, easily arise from it.

Because that, in its own way, is exactly what happened to feminism. What began as being “just about equality” or just about “the same treatment of women as for men” has become a blinding and fanatical form of gender partisanship. Motivated by dogmatic adherence to feminism, whole cohorts of young women (and their male sympathizers) have circled the wagons and harnessed collective groupthink to hermetically seal themselves away from any kind of criticism or dissent.

Driven by a sense of universal and historical mission, these women regard themselves as quite entitled to ceaselessly make unilateral demands of men with no countervailing concessions, tar all men with collective responsibility and guilt by association for the very real crimes and misdeeds of some men, and to effectively kill any prospect for intimacy and trust between the sexes by making militant confrontation the permanent and universal norm for gender relations. Backed by unilateral academic and media support and an arsenal of canned responses and copy pasta with which to respond to naysayers, the impact that this has had on gender dynamics is nothing short of devastating.

As an antidote to this, we need to step back from identity politics. We don’t need a male version of the same thing. Given what we should now know about ideological and identitarian polarization, feminism and the MRM will most likely feed off one another and each further radicalize in response to the other. This is certainly what I’ve seen in every single exchange between MRMs and feminists that I’ve ever seen. If that process becomes normalized, it could well mean the death of heterosexual love in its entirety. The prospect of this worries me greatly. I really hope people of both (yes, both) genders can learn to take a step back from their attachments to gender ideology and start reasoning honestly about these kinds of issues.

13 Comments

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13 responses to “Alt Left: “Why I am Not an MRA”

  1. HOOD

    ROBERT

    Sir

    After reading your comments about Return of Kings I began to peruse the site with some curiosity regarding how the next generation of males felt about gender politics.

    Their expectations are way, way high. While most of them admit to “wanting an 8 or 9” they also admit that they themselves are often smoking too much marijuana and using porn every day to masturbate with and live at home.

    I suggested that some of them could find relief (As I did when I was in my twenties) “sports-fucking MILFS above 30 who simply wanted their needs met by a young buck” and back came the reply that sleeping with older women was a “beta cuck” thing to do while most admit to jerking off to internet porn every single day.

    All things considered, I can understand why these guys are frustrated.

    Considering the situations that these young men are in (Partly because they came of age in a tough economy in a time of globalization) you’d think they would be happy if Mexican maids had sex with them for free.

    There is a vast politicization of the sexes going on with Gen W (As in whatever after 1985) where women are asexual vaguely Lesbian things (Something that hetero males have unwisely encouraged) who are made to feel ashamed of being straight and the Return of Kings guys want a “9” who is a virgin and comes from money and walks to church in the rain.

    This lack of realistic understanding does seem to have caused a rift between the sexes.

    • Moustache

      When I take public transit I feel like Travis Bickle(Deniro) in Taxi Driver. Fat old Somali ladies talking about nothing constantly with eachother and African American women so fat you almost say “damn” aloud. A fat and dumb White sports fan can’t waddle by without bumping his clumsy ass into you. Drunk White lady that gets along well with trashy busdriver lady. Highschool girls all 3 of which are bull dikes. Career woman who won’t respond to any man below her paygrade. The most beautiful person on the bus is young boy that looks like a girl. I’d love to back to the 50s or anytime before feminism and globalization kicked in.

  2. HOOD

    Related (Though not Repeated) Thoughts on “ROK”

    These posters are mostly on the margins but want “1%”. Gen Y males are hilariously unrealistic in the sort of women they think would have sex with them.

    Unless they are planning to raid a convent of nuns.

    Roosh himself I recognize as being Iranian from my years in Dubai and he looks like a wild-eyed Mullah but the posters go on and on about Muslims (And Jews, blacks, Asians) and yet they would all be better if they could have three wives through arranged marriages.

    There is something deeply pathetic about the Pendulum Swing of Gen Y raised by Yuppies after 1985 who yearn to feel masculine by growing big hairy beards and going far right.

    • Moustache

      I wonder if a sucessful player would even visit that site. Seems more for converts to game and those wanting to sharpen their game. I’ve seen similar Asian bashing on bodybuilding.com, they tend to get slapped around in the manosphere in general. There’s probably a lot of Asians seeking game tips there though. Muslims- turning Europe into shithole, Jews- anti-White and want to aid there destruction, blacks- behave like animals, and last but least Asians- most cucked by their own women. Whites get slapped even more pathetically on the otherside with SJWs simply going “You’re a White male!”.

      • HOOD

        STACHE

        “Successful player”

        I suggested on the site that for sports-fucking 40 + MILFS who simply want a living vibrator would be a nice alternative to chafing the skin on their palms from jerking off.

        “THAT’S BETA!!CUCK!” They blared back.

        What surprised me about Gen Y males was that all of them were porn addicts/involved in porn. Half the comments were about jerking off to porn because they could not get a “9” (Who are you? Hugh Hefner?).

        Few of them sound that way. But their standards are way high like most Conservative males who don’t like the supply-demand of the sexual marketplace.

        It is actually other white males like Carl the Cuck whose parents were probably white Yuppies born in 1962 who are paying for him to stand in the street shouting at other white males.

        If you were a Gen X who had been out of America for 18 years and PC you would think this was all really stupid.

        • Moustache

          Older women aren’t as in demand. I know guys that went older to avoid drama and games but found they were no better, if not worse, than young women. My Grandma’s a good woman but I don’t find many her age sexy. I consider Hef in the end a failure, a sad old man trying to buy love. I actually think your porn shaming might do them good. MILFs can be hot but guys can fuck their own age and legal younger ones too. MILF or hand seems extreme, they surely jerk it to fit porn MILFs though.

  3. HOOD

    Visit the Philippines and you’ll meet a thousand Hugh Hefners with girls younger than their granddaughters.

    He managed to live in a spooky mansion by selling pictures of 18 year old girls naked.

    Someone had to do it.

    • Moustache

      “live in a mansion by selling pictures of 18 year old girls naked.”
      His image seems more romantic that it was in reality. An old lurch girls hated to have sex with and leaving girls in his will just so they’d stay in his mansion is more the reality. A part of me still admires Hefs image, it’s the typical teenage boys dream, and I’m all for it if a guy can pull it off.

  4. Jason Y

    My opposition to the alt-left (somewhat) and certainly the alt-right boils down to the fact that while some criticism and so-called abuse are fine, some is not. For instance, calling women fat is wrong, but getting on to some guy for refusing to bathe or do enough math homework isn’t.

    Basically, what the alt-right is advocating is casual cruelty as W. Bush had lately pointed out. So I’d say that conservatism has reached the gutter level – once it has legitimized Nazis and the like – even f they are clean cut, Young Republican types.

    However, though, we can say that Rush Limbaugh and possibly South Park certainly made the foundation for what is now the alt-right – basically a bunch of young racist, cynical techy types – who among them have the occasional football player type – like Richard Spencer.

    So anyway, any kind of opposition given to Jed or santoculto or Beauregard stems from this root cause – and I think it’s justified.

  5. Jason Y

    Calling someone fat is wrong, but saying they aren’t doing enough math homework or bathing is not. Basically, the conservative movement has gone to the gutter – as W. Bush has pointed out recently – advocating casual and outright cruelty, disguising it as some movement for free speech.

    Anyway, that pretty much is the root cause of my opposition to J-ed, santo-culto, Beau-regaurd (dashes put in cause spam filters don’t like their names for some reason)

    However, though, South Park, Rush Limbaugh, all these things gave a foundation, though, for the current alt-right mess – and while, these people, shows, had a good cause to hate feminism etc., the youth who later became the alt-right took these ideas way too far – now becoming chic new racists, something unthinkable until only a few years ago.

  6. Jason Y

    Odd how these new techy alt-right types normally have a few football players like Richard Spencer thrown in, but overall, I think they’re nerds, to be honest. This all seems like some kind of sick Revenge of the Nerds, almost on the scale of the liberal PC version.

    But the official line of the alt-right of Richard Spencer is that nerd is bad and everyone who is gassed for disability should be a high school quarterback and not listen to the Jew who has deceived the masses into some kind of evil compassion.

    http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/features/meet-the-alt-right-spokesman-thrilled-by-trumps-rise-w443902 (Richard Spencer’s ideas)

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