Updated April 26: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

Most of the red-hot discussion about this case has moved over to the private password-protected forum. On this forum you can discuss people’s full names, addresses, phone numbers, you name it – you can accuse anyone of anything, and you don’t have to worry about the threat of a defamation or libel lawsuit. Furthermore, the forum is rigorously policed to keep out trolls, spies, stalkers, and other disruptors. None of your comments will appear on Internet search engines – you can say anything you want under any name you want without leaving a permanent record on the Net. A vast amount of mostly unreleased photos, videos, and data is stored and discussed here. All of our material is turned over to LE, and my understanding is that LE monitor the private forum. At this moment, we have ~150 Websleuths working on the case. Instructions for joining the private forum is here.

This is my long-awaited update. But a lot of new text has been added including things that have never been revealed in the media. I hope this is useful to you (I don’t want to say I hope you enjoy it as that sounds terrible)

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that cannot be determined from this crime, as it was not a pedophilic offense. Pedophilic crimes only refer to those against victims who are 12 years old and under.

A hebephilic crime would target a victim of 11-14 years of age. As you can see, there is some overlap around the tweens. Instead of being a pedophilic crime, this was a hebephilic offense. And while the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Pedophilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls 12-under.

Hebephilia: Strong or exclusive sexual preference for girls ~11-14.

Age of victims: 13 and 14

You do the math.

Thank you so much for this. 

Note to commenters 2: I am getting tired of saying this over and over, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. Furthermore, I am not using rumors as reliable sources as has been alleged. I never said they were reliable sources.

How reliable is a rumor? That’s for you to determine, but in general a rumor is not considered to be a reliable source, and they are not treated as such below. The only thing that is represented as fact are statements sourced from LE or the media. If you have issues with rumors, theories, opinions. etc., just quit reading right now and save yourself the heartache. 

Sexually-motivated double homicide of two teenage girls, one 13 and the other 14. For some background on this heartbreaking case, see here.

This is a new update containing lots of new information, mostly in the form of photos, including the first ever published photos of the actual crime scene! This should be a blockbuster post.

How Do I Know All This Stuff?

First: How do I know all this stuff?

Question: “Robert, How Do You Know So Much about Serial Killers, Pedophiles, Hebephiles and Sexual Sadists?”

I have done a lot of research on this case including released information, rumors and statements by LE. I have also spoken to people close to the case, including those close to the search party and LE. I also spoke to other sleuthers and people interested in the case. I am getting my very best information from people who are close to the girls’ families. Of all of the rumors and information I get, these are some of the best. Other information is derived from my own theorizing about the case.

So there’s the source of all of the information.

My Musings on This Case

This was not a crime of opportunity. He planned this very well. He plans his crimes with the utmost meticulousness. That is why he is armed with the gun and disguising himself. Source: My speculation based on the nature of the offense and the obvious skill involved.

Unsub is 5’10, 180 pounds with a bit of a middle aged man’s stomach paunch.  Source: Expert on CNN, paunch obvious in photo.

In my opinion, Unsub’s age is ~60. LE’s latest estimate is that he is 40-50 years old, but that’s seems too young to me. At the very least, that style of pants is outdated, and nowadays is only worn by men over 40 in that area. Conclusion: Anywhere between ~40-60, with an emphasis on the high end. t Sources: LE, sleuths commenting on the photo.


Excellent drawing of Unsub from an LE artist.

Clearly Unsub has a pistol, a .45 or 911. The pistol was holstered to his right side, which means he is left-handed. The outline of the pistol can clearly be seen in the photo released of the man. A photo exists showing the pistol outlined with graphic software. Source: Gun is obviously visible in photograph. Left-handedness concluded from the holstered gun pointing backwards on the right side.


Photo clearly shows a semiautomatic .911 or 45 mm handgun holstered on his right, which means he is left-handed. If you cannot see that obvious gun there, I do not know what to say to you.

Unsub may be trying to disguise himself in the photos by using a hat and a scarf. Source: LE.

Unsub is wearing a hat, a jacket with a hoodie and blue jeans in the photo. In my opinion, the hat is a camouflage hunting cap with padded ear muffs. Unsub is overdressed for the weather. He seems to have layers of clothing on. He has almost his entire body covered with clothing. Part of this is no doubt to disguise himself, but another reason is so he will have few exposed areas of his body where the girls could leave scratch marks if the girls fight back hard, although they still could scratch up his face pretty well. Source: LE, my own theorizing and conjecture, common sense.


In my opinion, this is the type of cap that Unsub is wearing.

What LE refers to as a fanny pack is actually what is called a deer kit. This contains knives, scissors, etc. for cutting up the deer after you kill it. So he is a hunter and he is going out to hunt these girls, and it appears he might be ready to do something terrible to their bodies. Source: A fellow sleuth researched it and discovered that that is actually a deer kit such as a hunter would use. It is too flat to be a fanny pack. Unsub must be a hunter. I doubt if he is a non-hunter because no non-hunter would know about a deer kit.


GIF image of Unsub photos run together.

There has been much talk about whether or not there were two murderers or one. Initial statements by LE implied that there were two killers, but they have not made any statements to that effect in quite some time. Conclusion: At the moment, the two killers theory is pretty dead ,and it looks like LE is leaning towards one killer. Source: A variety of LE statements and lack thereof.

There have been persistent rumors since even before the case was released to the media (these early rumors coming from family members) that Abbie survived until the next day, 2-14. There were different rumors, including that she was found alive but died on the way to the hospital, that she was alive when found but died soon after, that the coroner said she survived the attack but died of hypothermia in the woods, that her body was still warm when found, etc.

These rumors started almost instantly from people close to the family. We now have some excellent information that she somehow survived the attack and tried to crawl a ways away until she died. I am still getting reports that Abbie died on 2-14, and her body was still warm when found from some of my best sources close to the families, so this version is still strong.

Conclusion: The best analysis now is that Abbie did indeed survive the initial attack and died at some point later on on 2-14. The thing we do not know is how long she survived after she was attacked. She lingered for anywhere from 5-7 hours, which is my theory, and actually, that is nothing short of miraculous considering the gravity of her wounds. Sources: Rumors, people close the family, people close to LE.

Rumors from the search party stated that the girls had to have been moved since the dump site found on 2-14 had been searched on 2-13. The searchers were adamant that they had searched the dump site thoroughly on 2-13.

There is now evidence stating that searchers ran a thermal imager over the area on 2-13 (perhaps with an aircraft?), and while there were plenty of living things down there, none of them were human. In other words, the only things alive in that woods when the imager was run were wild animals. One would think that if the girls had been put there by 4 PM or so on 2-13 that the bodies would have shown up on the thermal imager.

In addition, there is now excellent information that the girls were removed immediately to a structure nearby where they were tortured, raped and homicidally attacked over a period of at at least ~12 hours. LE now accepts that they were removed and returned to site. Also they had to be returned after 2:30 AM when all of the searchers left and no doubt before dawn in the morning, as returning them in the daylight would have been stupid and crazy. Dawn was at 7 AM that day, so they had to be returned between 2:30-7 AM. Sources: People close to the search party, people close to the families, leak from LE.

dump spot with FBI(rz)

The actual body dump area with Ron Logan and an elegantly dressed FBI gumshoe. Dig the long tails on that jacket. Stylin!

Truck at cemetary on edge of dump site(RZ)

Truck parked at SW corner of cemetery at the edge of the trash dump ravine.

Dump site from road to cemetary(resize)

Trash dump ravine from the road to the cemetery. The killer drove down this road from the barn to the cemetery, then to the cemetery, then through the SE gate to Ron Logan’s land and the trail where he dragged the bodies. The entire distance from barn to beginning of trail is no more than 200 yards.

Cemetery on edge of ravine(resize)

The SW side of the cemetery near the trash dump ravine.

Drag area(resize)

This is the actual trail down which the bodies were dragged very early AM 2-14.

Part of cemetary near edge of ravine dump site(resize)

SW corner of the cemetery near the edge of the trash dump ravine.

Trash at dump site(resize)

More trash at the trash dump site on the SW end of the cemetery.

Drag area(resize)

This is apparently the trash dump site on the SW corner of the cemetery, a ravine where people throw trash. At first we thought this was where he dumped the bodies, but then we found the SE gate and the trail and it all made better sense

Dump site(resize)

This is the trash dump site on the ravine in the SW corner where people throw trash. Initially thought to be the body dump site, we realized that that was not possible. My investigator could not walk down that ravine in daylight and he wasn’t dragging two bodies either. We concluded that there was no way for the killer to drag two bodies down  this un-navigable ravine in the middle of night. You can’t even walk down it in the daytime with no bodies. How do you do it at 3 AM dragging two heavy bodies. Just forget it.

gate at SE corner of cemetary(rz)

Gate at the SE corner of the cemetery. The killer drove down a road to this gate early in the AM, opened the gate and drove 10 feet on Ron Logan’s horse pasture to the beginning of a trail to the dump site. He dragged the bodies down this trail in the middle of the night.

3 point turn SW of cemetary bodies dumped to right near stick pile(resize)

This is a three point turn SW of the cemetery leading to a ravine where people throw trash. Originally we thought he threw the bodies down here or dragged the bodies down the slope, but the slope is too steep to hike down, much less drag two bodies at night. And tossing the bodies over would not put them at the dump site. Later we focused on the SE corner of the cemetery where there is an unlocked gate leading to Ron Logan’s horse pasture. 10 feet further, a trail begins down the slope. This trail takes you directly to the dump site. So the killer must have driven to this spot, parked and dragged the bodies down the trail to the dump site. This is doable late at night, though difficult.

There is a rumor about how the girls were moved to the dump site. The rumor said that searchers followed drag marks, presumably left by the girls, to the dump site. So the killer returned the girls to the forest where they were abducted somehow. But this might not be difficult as he kept them alive for at least 12 hours in a barn across the road from Logan’s property. No searchers would have gone near Ron Logan’s outbuildings as they were located far from the search zone, so he had no fear of being caught.

Hence the killer was torturing, raping and homicidally attacking the girls at the same time that searches were ongoing for 10 hours straight. But from the kill site, the killer had a perfect view of the area, and he could determine when the searches were going on and when they stopped. Therefore, he knew when the searches had stopped at 2:30 AM, and he returned them sometime between then and 7 AM that morning.

The kill site is only 200 yards from the cemetery. He took the girls from the kill site to the cemetery and drove to the SE corner of the cemetery. There is a gate there that is open. When you walk through the gate, you are on Ron Logan’s horse pasture. The trail that the girls were dragged down to the dumpsite starts only 10 feet from the cemetery gate.

It is not known how the killer kept the girls quiet, but perhaps he terrorized the girls with a gun. Surely he must have bound and gagged them, probably very soon after he said “Down the hill,” in the tape. They were definitely bound when they were kept in the barn. It also makes sense that he would have kept them alive during this time. The killer remained with the girls the whole time they were in the barn committing his crimes right under the noses of the search parties!

I believe that the homicidal attack on the girls, no doubt the throat slitting, may have been done not long before they were dumped on the hill. One more thing we need to note is that there is no way the killer dumped those bodies there on 2-13 or even up until 2:30 AM on 2-14, as there were loud and obvious searchers with their shouts and lights in the area. You don’t dump bodies right in the middle of a search party that is looking for just those bodies. No one does that.

Yet somehow he dumped those bodies there between 2:30 AM-7:40 AM on 2-14.

There is a rumor says that the killer thrust a large pointed wooden stick into Abbie’s stomach. This brutal spearing must have occurred at the dump site, especially since even that spearing somehow did not kill Abbie! In fact, she survived for at least 3 and maybe 7 hours afterwards! He would not have speared her before being placed at the dump site because it makes no sense to drag a girl with a spear in her down a hill. Further, Abbie survived the spearing, which means she must have been speared at the dump site.

Obviously they were dragged down the hill, placed at the dump site, and then the killer speared Abbie in the stomach as one final Parthian Thrust shows the profound rage, hatred and contempt that this killer must have felt for his victims.

Source: Leaks from LE, people close to the families, my own theorizing. The theory that he removed them from the site to the barn is quite solid, and I believe it is fact, in addition to the location where they were driven in the early AM to the trail where they were dragged, which I also regard as fact.

Fence around cemetary road to Ron Logans(resize)

Fence around cemetery on the road to Ron Logan’s horse pasture at the SE end of the cemetery at a gate. The killer drove this route very early in the AM on route to body dump.

Barn crime scene(rz)

This is the photo that initially led us to consider the barn as a kill site. What is that cop with a dog doing there? That’s a crime scene, and a bad one. We noticed this photo of police with dogs searching the barn and put two and two together. We knew an outbuilding had been used, but we had no idea where it was. The media reports got this all wrong, describing this photo as a search of Ron Logan’s land, when actually it was a search of the Mears property, probably especially the barn.

The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – -the barn on the Mears property across the street. Here is a side view.


The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Flowers in the barn. This, in addition to the photos of dogs searching the barn and my investigator’s discussions with Mears family members, solidified my conclusion that this was the kill site. No one knows exactly where the girls were killed. Perhaps it was here?


The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Here is the ill-fated barn. Even in daytime, you cannot see inside the barn. My investigator was only able to see objects at the very front of the barn. Everything else was hidden. You could also pull a car in there as it is big enough to fit a car. The car also would not be seen. Barn is about 50 yards from the road but from the road, visibility into the barn even in daylight is about zero.


The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. Interior of the ill-fated barn. As you can see, it is quite spacious inside. Also people inside are invisible to those on the outside even in daylight. Cloudy weather is worse.


The first ever photos of the Delphi kill site – the barn on the Mears property across the street. One last photo of the barn, this time from inside the barn. As you can see, you can easily pull a car into that barn.

Someone posted photos supposedly from the body dump site on a website frequented by Delphi residents. The photo was quickly taken down, but a number of people saw it anyway. The photo shows the two dead girls and the coroner. The person who posted the photo had some text saying that the bodies were positioned in an odd way. The only sense that the poster could make out of this odd posing of the bodies is that he thought it might have been some sort of a ritual, possibly a Satanic ritual.

I believe this is called “posing” the bodies and is a favorite with serial killers. There are no details on how the girls were positioned. Conclusion: This is probably a good rumor as people posted what they saw on the site on a family members’ site, and none of the family members said that the information was false. Source: A number of people who saw the Delphi resident’s web page.

The crime scene does not make sense in this case. The girls seem to have been attacked soon after Unsub said, “Go down the hill.” The entire south side of the creek was roped off as a crime scene. I do not feel that this is a homicide site; instead, I feel there was some sort of an altercation here as he tried to put them in a vehicle he had placed there for this purpose.

People are now saying that the whole attack was over soon after it began, and there are reports saying that the 6-minute audiotape contains the horrifying record of a homicide. This would imply that the girls were murdered very quickly. But the logistics of the case do not support a homicidal attack soon after abduction, at least in the case of Abbie.

Reports that the crime was over quickly after it began do not make sense for a variety of reasons. Furthermore, assuming Abbie’s body was still warm when found, if she was murdered at 4 PM, how does she linger for 17 1/2 hours until the next day? Simple, it didn’t happen.

However, there is some brutal audio and perhaps video that Liberty recorded on her phone. Some of the audio was recorded right before the abduction, and there is 40 minutes after that. The audio right after the recording of the man saying, “Down the hill,” records the girls screaming.

Does that imply that the girls were attacked soon after being told to go down the hill? Yes.

There is a big question about the phone.  After 5:30 PM and for several hours, Liberty’s phone was pinging all over town which means it was not in Liberty’s possession. The question about the phone is whether or not it was recovered. The latest and best theory seems to be that Liberty’s phone was not recovered and all of the audio and video was taken from the Iphone Cloud. There is an option on an Iphone to immediately save all data to the Cloud.

If she threw the phone in the woods, it should have been found by now.

OK, so why was Liberty’s phone pinging all over town for several hours during the search? This would make sense if the phone was in the woods, but it appears now that the phone was not in the woods. So why did it ping all over town?

The killer had the two girls in his remote structure soon after they were abducted. If the structure was not far from the dump site, the phone could have been on Liberty’s body while she was in the structure as Logan’s property is near the forest where they were taken. Perhaps in the process of disrobing her, the killer found Liberty’s cellphone. Perhaps it was dead by this point.

Under this scenario, Unsub either disposed of or destroyed the phone after it died, and this is why it has never been found. Perhaps he smashed it to bits. Perhaps he discarded it in the garbage somewhere. Or even better yet, he threw it in the river. Conclusion: It now appears that the phone was indeed not recovered, but that is not as solid of a fact as we would like it to be. Source: People close to the search party, people close to the case.

Fallen tree on north side hiding spot for Unsub(resize & rotate)

A large tree down the slope from the north side of the bridge. We believe the killer may have hid here lying in wait for the girls to start across the bridge, at which point, he followed them from north to south and essentially trapped them on the south end of the bridge.


A pack of cigars maybe left by a hunter under the tree where the killer may have lay in wait for his victims. The cigars are not the killer’s. My investigator told me that the entire area seemed to have been gone over with a fine tooth comb by LE. It seems that LE was suspicious of this area on the north side just as we are. Perhaps their theory is the same as ours.

beginning of bridge on north side(resize & rotate)

The beginning of the bridge on the north side. We believe that the killer accessed the bridge from the north side like all hikers do and set off down the trail to the north side of the bridge, where he descended and lay in wait for his victims.

The south side of the river was roped off as a crime scene, not the north side. Yes, the tape was removed two days later, but so what? This is standard procedure in a park. But if the south side was not a homicide scene but instead some other sort of scene such as an abduction scene, it could have been gone over quickly, and there would be no reason to keep it roped off. The girls were not attacked much at the dump site, as the dump site was described as pristine. Conclusion: The best theory right now is that the south side was the scene of some scuffle probably as he was trying to tie them up and get them in his vehicle. The best evidence now suggests that the girls were killed in the barn across the street from Ron Logan’s property. Sources: LE, media reports, sleuths.

The FBI interviewed a man who had property on the south side of the creek. They asked about his gun(s), his vehicle(s), and whether there were any outbuildings. From this we can conclude that the FBI believes that a gun, a vehicle and an outbuilding were used in this crime.

In addition, the notion of the barn as kill site fits well into the very earliest statements from family members 1.5 hours before the media even reported the crime saying that the girls were found raped and killed in a cabin. Since the girls were found dumped in the forest, the rumor about being found in a cabin made no sense.

But now there is a way that we tie this all together. Sure, the cabin or structure played a serious role in the crime, but not as a dump site. Instead, the cabin (actually a barn) was the place where they were abused, raped and killed! So the Cabin Theory (actually a Barn Theory) makes a new appearance, this time making a lot more sense. Conclusion: The Cabin Theory is fact, except the kill site was a barn and not a cabin. As the cabin talk started up right away, this also implies that LE found the kill site very soon after they found the bodies. Sources: Family members, people close to the family, leaks from LE.

There is a rumor stating that LE says that Liberty could have escaped several times, but she chose to stay by her best friend’s side to the end. In real life, they were inseparable. That means that Libby is truly a hero for giving her life in order not to abandon her friend. And it makes this crime even more sad. Conclusion: It is probably true. It is hard to understand why LE would make up such a story, and LE would be the only people to know. Source: Person close to the family.

There is indeed a voice recording of Unsub saying, “Go down the hill.” The next thing you hear on the tape is the girls screaming. This is part of an audiotape heroically recorded by Libby by turning on the recorder on her phone as the girls were being abducted. It has also been implied, terrifyingly, that the audio is actually a recording of the rapes and murders. Conclusion: The four words are fact. From the behavior of LE, it does seem as if something quite terrible is on the rest of that audio. Source: People close to the family.

There is a rumor that says that there is not 6 minutes of video/audio but instead there is 40 minutes of video/audio! Someone posted this on a site that the families frequent, and no family members asked to take it down for being inaccurate, so there is something to it. I believe there is little more video, and most of that 40 minutes is audio. And I have heard that it’s ugly and nasty stuff, so terrifying that LE does not want to release it. Strong rumor.

Conclusion: Almost certainly true. Surely there is nasty stuff on that audio, and it makes sense that it would last 40 minutes and not 6 minutes. Furthermore, the person who said there was 40 minutes posted it on a site frequented by family members and none of them said it was false. And they would have spoken up if it were not true. Source: Posting on a website frequented by the families of the girls.

Monon bridge trail(resize)

The Monon High Bridge Trail before it gets to the north side of the bridge. The girls set off down this path on their fateful journey at 2 PM, 2-13.

There is talk of a car that can be barely seen in the lower left of the photo of Abbie on the bridge below the bridge. No one even knows if that is a car or not in that photo. Many people say they cannot make out a vehicle in the photo.

That road is a very little-used road that almost no one has even heard of, and it is quite hard to get to. My on the ground investigator was not able to find this road, but he is sure it is there. It appears to have been a road used by workers to maintain the bridge. A new rumor says that LE believes that the killer’s vehicle was parked at a trail head on the south side. Conclusion: Of course a car was used in this crime, and of course it was parked on the south side on a small road or truck trail that parallels the river. There is no other way this crime could have occurred. Source: Sleuths analyzing the photo of Libby on the bridge, people close to the family.


A possible vehicle can barely be seen circled in blue.


The “vehicle” is very hard to make out in this photo, but I do see what appears to be a vehicle in that photo. At any rate, no one even knows if there is a vehicle in that photo or not. I think it is a vehicle, but that is not proven yet at all.

Man hiding and watching

Is that a man hiding and watching Abbie on the bridge? I have another photo taken recently and that black figure is simply not there.

Photo without man watching(rz)

A photo of the exact location of the “man in hiding” in the photo above taken days after the crime. Notice anything? No “man in hiding” anymore. Huh? If that was just some normal shadow effect, clearly it would have been seen there at all times. But here it is not there. I am starting to think that may be the killer hiding behind that tree near the north side of the bridge waiting for his victims.

Car with man circled

Another car photo with a possible man or human figure standing next to the car. The human figure is circled.

There is evidence from various statements from the family that Libby put up a huge fight. The condition of her body at the funeral adds weight to the notion that she fought back very hard and sustained many defensive wounds because she had many small wounds on her body and face. In addition there is a new rumor now that states that Abbie fought back so hard that her nails were shredded. However, I believe they are confused and it was really Libby whose nails were torn up.

Unsub may well have scratch marks if Libby fought like a wildcat, which it seems she did. It addition, the throat slitting attack on Libby was much more severe than on Abbie and it was Libby who was beaten to the point where she was nearly unrecognizable, not both girls. The horrendous beating and the vicious throat attack imply that the killer was enraged with Libby for fighting back so hard, so he attacked her viciously in response. Conclusion: This is certainly true, at least the part about her fighting back violently. We know this by the condition of her body at the funeral. Source: People at the funeral, common sense.

I believe the gun obviously holstered on the right under the jacket of Unsub was used to control the girls. He also got them to keep quiet with the gun. However, the gun was not used to shoot the girls either to kill or wound them. These girls have no gunshot wounds. Conclusion: Now that we know the cause of death, there is no way a gun was used in this crime. There has never been the slightest rumor that these girls were attacked with gunshots.  Source: Common sense, witness reports.

There is a rumor that both girls had their throats slit. This is a strong rumor. Funerals were open casket, and both girls had scarves covering their necks, more to cover something up than as clothing. This adds weight to the theory that their throats were slit.

There is a rumor that Liberty was nearly decapitated. A recent version of this rumor said she was decapitated. However, if so, I do not understand how Unsub dragged a headless body down that trail, presumably with a human head in his hand. Further, Liberty’s head was very much on her body at the funeral. It is hard to imagine a funeral director putting someone’s head back on. This is a strong rumor as I have now heard many versions of it and no rumors saying that it is false.

It appears that the the wound to Abbie’s throat was not a particularly grievous wound. In other words, if he was trying to kill her, he did a poor job of it. If Libby did survive for at least 3 and up to 8 hours after she was homicidally attacked, her throat must not have been cut too grievously because otherwise she would not have survived for so long afterwards.

Conclusion: Of course the girls had their throats cut and this was the cause of death at least in the case of Liberty no doubt and a contributing factor in the death of Abbie. The rumor that the attack on Liberty’s neck was particularly vicious seems to be well supported as it keeps coming up and no one has said it was not true. Obviously, if Abbie survived as long as she did, the attack on her neck was not particularly grievous. Sources: Family members, people close to LE, people at the funeral.

There is a rumor saying that both girls were beaten so badly in their faces that they were nearly unrecognizable. However the latest version of this rumor says that only Libby was given this treatment. Conclusion: The best conclusion seems to be that Libby was the one who was severely beaten in the face. If Abbie was beaten in the face at all, it was not nearly so badly.  Source: Source close to the family.

This offense was clearly sexually motivated, and it seems quite clear that sexual assault occurred in the course of the crime. The very first rumors from the family members said both girls had been raped. However, a new rumor says that neither girl was raped and instead both girls were sexually mutilated, which is in fact much worse than simply being raped which is bad enough. We can only imagine what sort of mutilation was involved here.

We are dealing with a real bad guy here like Ted Bundy or Jack the Ripper. He not only kills girls, but he likes to cut them up too. This is not your ordinary rapist-killer, however it is common in serial killer rape-murders that the females’ bodies are at times mutilated in some way or another,  so if our Unsub is a serial, then this sort of attack is right up his alley.

Further, I feel that the mutilation may well have been done with the stick that he impaled in Abbie’s stomach before he left. This is a theory of my on the ground investigator, and I think he may well be correct. Furthermore, it solves the DNA problem for the killer. If a stick was used, there will be no DNA other than oak or pine DNA.

Conclusion: Sadly this theory is probably correct at least as far as mutilation goes. The very first statements by family members before this was even reported in the media was that the girls were “raped and mutilated.” Statements that they were mutilated have continued since then, including one very recent statement. Sadly, this is quite probably what was done to these girls. The theory of using the stick to mutilate the girls is on much shakier ground as it is pure speculation by my fellow sleuth and me.  Sources: Family members, people close to LE, general rumors, sources close to family.

There is uncertain information about the state of the bodies when found. Early statements were that Abbie was nude and Liberty was clothed. But if both girls were sexually mutilated, there was no way that Liberty was clothed. This killer is not about to put clothes back on a dead girl after he kills her. Conclusion: The theory that best explains the facts is that both girls were found nude. Sources: Rumors, sources close to the family.

There is conflicting information about the DNA collected at the scene. One report said the DNA is back, but there is no match to any known person.

Another says that the DNA that came back is that of Ivan Brumbaugh, the man who found the bodies. However, it is mere tough DNA, and it is is so weak that it was not even found at first and was only found two weeks later. Further, Brumbaugh states that he touched the bodies when he found them. In addition, if Brumbaugh is the killer, I would expect that they would have something better than a tiny bit of touch DNA, which is much more suggestive of his story about touching the bodies when he found them than that he is the killer.

Conclusion: No one knows! It does appear that DNA is back. That much seems to be certain. Whether it matches no one or Brumbaugh, no one knows. Further, the only information on the Brumbaugh theory comes form a man who is certain that Brumbaugh is the killer and has made a video to that effect. He also says he was the one who turned in Brumbaugh and that he is going to get the reward. This man has a large stake in Brumbaugh being the killer, so he is not a very good source. Until we get corroboration on the Brumbaugh rumor, all we know is that DNA is back and it either matches no one or it matches the man who found the bodies.

Source: A good source in Delphi, LE, media reports, a video maker on Youtube who is making a serious claim that Brumbaugh is the killer.

There is a rumor that boot prints were found at the scene. These boots are thought to have been worn by Unsub. This would make sense, as LE had some boots in an evidence bag a few days after the killings. They innocuously said that the boots had nothing to do with the crime, but they were probably lying. They probably did not recover Unsub’s actual boots themselves. Why would Unsub discard his boots at the crime scene and walk away shoeless? Makes no sense. It is more likely that LE matched the boot prints to that type and size of boot, indicating that Unsub was wearing boots of that make and size at the time of the crime.

There is a new rumor that Indiana Packers in town was raided and a pair of boots were seized from the site. This rumor is hard to understand. Who if anyone owned the boots that they seized? Why was this man not arrested? Conclusion: Of course boot prints were found at the site. We know that for sure now. And the type of boot was surely the one shown in the evidence bag. Sources: LE, source in Delphi.

The girls’ clothing was found in the creek. This was no doubt an attempt by Unsub to destroy any DNA evidence. The clothes were probably from both girls and both were no doubt found nude. Conclusion: Certainly true as it was reported by as news reporter at the scene. Source: Statements from reporter at the scene, common sense.

There is an incredible rumor that victim Abigail Williams, age 13, was pregnant at the time of the attack. It is now known that she definitely had a boyfriend, who was 16 years old. He has been located, and we know his name. Conclusion: At the moment this is a weak rumor, but it does explain some other things such as the spearing attack. It has only been stated by one person and has not been corroborated, but there have also been no reports saying it is false. Source: A sleuth.

There is very gruesome rumor saying that Abbie’s body was found with a pointed branch driven into her stomach. In other words, Unsub stood over Abbie and plunged the stick into her belly, pinioning her like a shishkebab. If this is true, it is even more incredible for her to survive the attack and even to crawl around with a stick in her body. Conclusion: As bizarre as it sounds, this rumor is quite possibly true. It has been repeated by a resident who posted crime scene photos on his page and corroborated by those who saw his photos. Source: A source close to the family, a Delphi resident who posted crime scene photos on his site and others who viewed these photos.

Tying together both of the shocking rumors is the suggestion that Unsub knew that Abbie was pregnant, and the stick attack was an attempt to kill the fetus too. Although this makes sense, one wonders how he could have possibly known that she was pregnant given that she was not very far along. Look at Abbie in the bridge photo. Does she look pregnant in that photo? So how would Unsub discover that she was pregnant? When people are under the control of a potentially murderous person who is assaulting them with what looks like homicidal intent, a lot of victims make various pleas to their attacker(s) to please spare their lives.

These take the form of appeals such as, “Please, no, I have a wife and three kids!…No, spare me, I am the sole breadwinner for my family of five!,” etc. I am sure there are many more. Victims make all sorts of pleas and engage in various manipulations of the person assaulting them in an attempt to stay alive. Most people do not want to die and will try all sorts of desperate measures in an attempt to not be murdered.

Sometimes they work, the attacker has a change of heart and decides to spare one or more victims. If Abbie pleaded with Unsub that he would be killing not just her but another potential life, then Unsub would have learned of her pregnancy. Conclusion: No one knows if the rumor that Abbie was pregnant are even true, but the stick rumor surely is. At any rate, there is no evidence tying the stick attack in with the possible pregnancy other than a speculated theory. This was merely the conclusion of a fellow sleuth, who is actually very good. And she is a woman too. Source: Speculation by me and a fellow sleuth.

Ron Logan, the poor soul whose land the bodies were found on, is still the source of much speculation that he is the murderer. There are websites where all they do is go over and over this man as a suspect. Quite a few people still believe he is the killer. I do not believe that Ron Logan is the killer, nor do I believe that he had anything to do with this crime. However, LE seems to think he may know more about this crime than he is letting on. This was apparently behind the apparent efforts to sweat him out by throwing him in jail for a probation violation for violating his drunk driving probation.

He was supposed to neither drink nor drive and he did both on the day of the killings. Logan did indeed go to the dump and many people think he was disposing of evidence there. However, he went there at 11:30 AM, so he could not possibly have been disposing of evidence as this was 3.5 hours before the girls were even abducted. Instead, Logan was in Lafayette 25 miles away buying tropical fish, but mostly drinking in a bar somewhere, probably some “old man’s tavern.” He is said to have been drinking beer. He lied about this to LE in order to cover up his probation violation, and LE was not happy that he lied to them.

However, Logan’s wife, who has a low opinion of him, states emphatically that he is innocent of this crime and that there are time-stamped photos of him, probably taken by surveillance cameras. These time-stamped photos cover the period of the abduction, so he could not have done this crime. Logan returned at 5:30 PM from Lafayette, where searchers asked for permission to search his land, which was granted.

One thing that kept Logan’s name on people’s tongue is that his property was thoroughly searched once and maybe even twice. They are even said to have searched the interior of his home in addition to his outbuildings. His car was also searched and it was even impounded for a while. The second search of Logan’s land certainly set tongues wagging ferociously.

However, my investigator has now determined that the media was quite wrong about this search. The media said Logan’s land was being searched, but the main search was of the Mears property across the street and of course the barn. The simply mistook the Mears’ land for Logan’s land. Logan’s property may well have been searched also, but the focus was clearly on the Mears property.

Conclusion: Of course Logan is innocent. The dump accusation is false and there is hard evidence that he was in Lafayette at the time of the abductions. His land was probably searched because this poor fellow had the misfortune of having two dead girls dumped on his land.  The much-ballyhooed second search of Logan’s land was falsely reported. It was actually the Mears property being primarily searched, not Logan’s. Almost everything accusatory you hear about Ron Logan regarding this crime is surely false. I really wish everyone would lay off this poor soul.

Probation officer report for Ron Logan

The entirety of LE’s case against Logan. People made much of this paper because it says he went to the dump. This apparently proved that he was disposing of articles after killing the girls. But he went to the dump at 11:30 AM, 3.5 hours before the girls were abducted, so unless Logan can time travel to the past, he could not have been disposing of murder items at the dump as the homicide or even abduction had not even taken place yet!

Ron Logan is indeed a drunk and a probation violator and I have learned that he has a shady past. 5-10 years ago, he had a girlfriend who he used to beat up on a regular basis. One time perhaps 7-8 years ago, he nearly beat this poor woman to death. He is also said to be quite strange sexually and he has freaked out a number of local woman with his sexual interests. He is also said to be very much into sex, but that can be said about millions of male Americans and quite a few females too.

Conclusion: Drunk, yes. Probation violator, yes. The other accusations are quite disturbing but he has never shown an abnormal interest in young girls such as pubescent teenage girls. I believe that Logan is a kinky drunk who likes to slap his women around. That’s not exactly optimal, but there are probably millions of men like this in the US. But there is huge difference with having the dubious qualities above and being a depraved rapist-mutilator-murderer of young teenage girls.

In addition to the rest of the evidence, Logan simply does not have it in him to do this crime in my opinion. His ex wife, who is not a Ron Logan fan at all, says that whatever else Ron is, he is not a murderer as she feels he is not capable of it. The social media circus around this man is most unsavory if not outright wrong. It’s time to pack up the Ron Logan theory and take it out to the dump where it belongs. Sources: A Delphi local who knew the ex girlfriend very well, Logan’s ex-wife.

There is a rumor saying that the case against Ron Logan is completely corrupt and is being led by a man who could care less if Logan did these crimes or not. All this man wants is to see Logan destroyed. This man is another local with whom Logan had a falling out. The man has money and has long wanted to buy Logan’s 40 acres, however, Logan was never willing to sell. Logan’s property is said to be choice land with waterfalls, etc.

This man figures if he can get Logan prosecuted for murder or at least have his life ruined by these allegations, then at some point, Logan will sell his land, possibly to pay his legal bills. This man figures that ruining Ron Logan will allow this man to somehow acquire Logan’s property. Conclusion: Weak rumor only from one source, which seems to be Ron Logan’s attorney. Impossible to prove until we get evidence but it is interesting. Source: Source close to the families.

Three other posts in this series:

Updated March 9: Profile of the Evansdale-Delphi Serial Killer

The Case for Unsub Involvement in Both the Delphi and Evansdale Double Murders

The Case for Linking the Delphi Murders with the Evansdale Murders

If you enjoy the hard work that goes into this website, please consider a contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.


Filed under Crime, Girls, Law enforcement, Midwest, Regional, Serial Killers, USA

587 responses to “Updated April 26: Sexually-Motivated Double Homicide in Delphi, Indiana, February 13, 2017: Liberty German and Abigail Williams

  1. Mer

    Correction. The barn, which could have been used, is about 200 yards from the cemetery. The SE corner of the cemetery has a gate to Ron Logan’s horse pasture. The trail to the dump site is just 10 feet from the gate. The SW corner is a place where locals have thrown old tires, bikes, a couch, etc. into the ravine. It would have been much easier to dump the girls there, but they were instead dragged down to the creek.

    I have seen 4 different spots marked as the place where the girls’ bodies were found. The most reliable one is supported by a youtube video showing crime scene tape. This spot is on or near RL’s land and near the cemetery

    • Dlux

      Thanks Mer. Also of note, there is a pretty big dip on the south end of the cemetery. I actually parked my car there and walked to the road and couldn’t see the car.

      As far the kill barn, you can pull a vehicle behind the barn or in the barn and it wouldn’t be seen. This is directly across from RLs home and the search party could easily be seen from there.

      One thing to note is the proximity from the cemetery, barn, and trail entry point. These are all less than 1 mile apart so it would be very easy to drive up the road and make sure all was clear before dumping the bodies.

      My theory on all of this has wildly changed however after visiting the site, but I am unable to share as it would severely incriminate.

      • Oh, come on. Take the chance. Share your theory.

        • Researcher

          I left the previous previous comments and research I conducted concerning this matter I have passed on the information to our law enforcement and we’ll decide whether to post the information which I haven’t done since he’s our Persons of Interest I developed and not wanting toTo go directly for the suspects or Persons of Interest

          Again these are two white males in their late fifties to Mid fifties Persons of Interest one and public transportation the other unknown however both of these individuals were developed and research to determine that they were buddies since the 1970s I did not see the first post go through and we’ll wait see if the second one is post

        • Thank you Researcher. Why don’t you make a donation. The site runs on donations and this is my only source of income other than a small monthly trust fund. You will not be making me rich, I assure you.


      • Benjamin Clark

        Incriminate Who? There are 2 dead girls. If it incriminates me I don’t care let us know! No theory is stupid. I believe the killer could have climbed the forked tree to access the tracks and surprise the girls. Hundreds of people said i’m stupid. Who cares I still feel strong about this until I get to see the tree myself!

        • Lotus

          There is a video on youtube that clearly shows the bridge. There is no tree close enough to the bridge. And the bridge is very high. The killer is an older fat white man. He did not climb any tree. In the photo of Abby on the bridge, it looks in the far distance that the killer is just starting onto the bridge. Later he walked up to the girls. That is where the photos came from. There is also a story going around that Libby texted one of her friends several times saying they were being followed by a man. Okay? No tree was climbed.

        • Dlux

          Yeah, check the bridge out. That didn’t happen. As far as incriminating people, i am no detective, just someone with a federal source who may have a little more info than is released to the public. In other words, if I am wrong, you won’t be able to unread my theory as it has to name locals to be fully explained.
          If I recall, there was a local who’s life has effectively been ruined by the media and bloggers, as everyone was confident he was the guy. I believe Ron Logan was his name…. (huge sarcasm for the elderly folks who don’t understand this).

    • Kim

      Interesting point about perps choice to drag bodies rather than more easily dumping. This means something but I’m not sure what. Perp thought he was concealing them by covering w/leaves near creek? Maybe was a person comfortable in woods (IB doesn’t look like big outdoors guy but did run a greenhouse).

      The lack of DNA always made me skeptical about rape. I think it was more of a rage event which is consistent with maiming. I’m still unclear,about what reported screaming at 6s after “down the hill” represented. Whether they saw a 2nd person, the perp flew into action, or what??

      • We think he started hitting them with his gun to knock them out at the bottom of the hill. Then there was an effort to tie them up I suppose.

      • It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to find the vehicle on the left side of the bridge where Abby is photographed. It is right there for people to see. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see the image of what appears to be the subject at the end of Abby’s shadow peeking out of the bushes. As a matter of fact, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to see that there may be up to three people in that image.

        For those interested, looked for the railroad tie with the raised nail. It is like the third or fourth tie. Look to the left…and walla, the vehicle is there. Plus, despite what Robert says, there are more vehicles in that photo.

        This wasn’t, in my opinion, an act of rage or a sexual crime. I’ve said from day one, it is very possible that this crime is well beyond just Delphi, IN. If it was one perp, I believe LE would have them in custody.

        However, by my count, you can have anywhere up to 10 different suspects. That doesn’t happen in a rage or rape case. Something happened and things went terribly wrong for the girls.

        As far as dragging the bodies in the middle of the night, that, to me, is just nonsense. No one, is going to stick around and come back to a murder scene to drag bodies. Use some common sense….!

        Jeeps or other 4×4’s were the vehicles of choice using the creek as the way to enter and exit.

        As far as that maintaince road, if a researcher wasn’t able to find it, he is pretty piss poor. It now dead ends into a residence’s driveway. Google the area to see it.

        I believe that at least one of the girls were targeted for a sex ring operation or the sex slave industry. The people in the brush certainly seemed to be targeting Abby. They probably were not expecting her best friend to be along with her.

        Wonder if any of these slueths have asked LE why there are no shadows of the suspect in those photos? Wonder if they asked why there appear to be more boots than suspects?

        I’ll keep asking THOSE questions why some of these other theories are played out…..

  2. Neferbunny

    Robert, do you still think you know who the perp is and do you think the police know? Perhaps watching and waiting for him to screw up?

    • Not sure. My guy is Mr. X. But I have him mostly for Evansdale, which I am sure he did. The case for him doing Delphi is much harder to make and there is not a lot of evidence against him except his ex wife said that the Bridge Guy was her ex husband, Mr. X. That’s about all we have on him for Delphi.

      I have no idea what the police know. From the Secret Service, I learned that the police think they know who did it but they are trying to build a case against him. There is much chatter back and forth about Ivan Brumbaugh, a most unlikely suspect IMHO. But stranger things have happened. The most recent article I read that the police were pretty much back at Square One, which does not surprise me one bit.

      • Dlux

        Ivan is so dainty and frail. I would urge folks to Google pics of him, he looks close to death in all of them. I would think the suspect would at least need to not look on their last leg. I wish I could confirm his alibi as I have heard it was near bulletproof.

        • Lotus

          I looked at both of Ivan’s facebook pages. I do not think he did this crime.There are pics of him holding his disabled granddaughter. He does seem to have a younger girlfriend who does have two young daughters. On the surface, it does raise the question of whether he is one of those men who is with a woman because he is attracted to the kids. In this case, I think he genuinely cares for kids, which could easily explain why he would touch the girls upon finding them. Maybe he wanted to check and see if they were alive? He appears to be a creative person — an artist, a former restaurant owner who tried to run a place with healthy, creative food one might expect in a trendy area of a much larger city. Everything about him looks like he treats life in a loving way. I believe he found the bodies and touched them to see if he could help them.

        • Kim

          I see IB differently, although perhaps not physically imposing, he looks physically capable with strong arms and huge hands. In his pics from a few yrs ago with young ladies in Lafayette show his physique better than the ones from Feb. 19th this year when he looks tired & haggard for obvious reasons. Check out the pic of his girlfriend from her public Facebook.

          Also, there is no mention of his daughter or ex-wife on his FB making him seem estranged from close connections with family.

          I learned some years ago not to judge a man’s physical condition based strictly on appearance when running a 10k race at a 7min/mi pace and numerous large middle-aged men with beer bellies blew past me a mile from the finish line!

          I think the killing was an act of rage, an acting out of pent up frustrations. I agree with Lotus’ points on what we do know, specifically, he was local and knew the bridge well. I think he specifically had pent up frustration and rage against women/young girls,and was looking for a vulnerable outlet that day.

          Finally, if I found 2 bodies with their throats slit, I’m sure I would immediately turn and run calling out for assistance and witnesses. I cannot imagine that I would be touching such bodies…. was it also IB who proclaimed Abby’s body was still warm??

          That being said, I don’t know who did this. However, if the person who found the bodies, pulled a ‘touch’ DNA match, sounds like a ringer with Libby’s audio needs to be looked at excruciatingly carefully and I hope has a better alibi than home with popcorn with the GF pictured below (and her kids).

        • Didn’t IB lose a son and have his restaurant shut down recently due to lack of business? Those two items of course do not a murderer make, but they can add to pent up rage…if rage was indeed a factor.

        • Lotus

          The girlfriend explains on her facebook that those guns are paintball guns and they were playing. That is a very important point.

        • Dlux

          Send that link please.

        • Mer

          Really? A paintball gun with a silencer and a magazine designed to hold rifle cartridges? Not sure about that, but there is nothing wrong with posing with a gun.

        • Mer

          If I found 2 bodies with their throats cut, and one of them was possibly still alive, I would call 911 on my cell.. But, wait, IB apparently didn’t have a cell phone with him…strange

        • Dlux

          He’s also an old man and probably doesn’t carry his cell phone with him everywhere. Of the older folks I know, 60+, about half of them carry a phone and half of them do not.

          Do we know that he didn’t have his phone with him?

        • Kim

          I think part of the answer to who did this has to be the Monon Bridge itself and (possible) outbuilding involved. After watching the Bridgewimp YouTube vid and Mer’s review it seems so clear that the perp must have grown up around that bridge.

          No older person just released from jail (Dobeski below) could chase two young girls across that bridge. Like Mer, I couldn’t even go 40 ft out on that bridge as an adult. Maybe if I was familiar from going on it when I was growing up I could. Questions to ask are:
          1. Who would have the confidence to chase their prey once (maybe twice) across that bridge?
          2. Who would have such familiarity with that bridge that they would PLAN a crime around it?
          3. What frame of mind was the perp in when he set off across the bridge after the girls. His body posture seems calm, deliberate, but with murderous intent. How could one be so calm going on that bridge for 1st time?

          His rage wouldn’t have released until he had his prey. I don’t know who could do this, it does seem an extraordinary feat.

          The person we’ve been discussing doesn’t look at first glance capable, but Who Would?? (Regarding frustration… I can imagine someone might be a bit frustrated after saving a bottle of wine for an attractive 25yo like Mer’s GF but then ending up with a GF like above 🙂 (attempt at joke!)

        • Mer

          My understanding is he had to travel to notify LE he had found the bodies. I think IB would have a cell phone. He must have left his phone at home.

      • I’m betting that LE has the license plate number of at least one vehicle used in this crime. Now it could be a stolen vehicle, but that would add to the timeline and location tracks these killers used.

        Yes, there is a vehicle in plain cite visible in the picture of Abby walking across the bridge. Looks like the license plate was caught by
        Libby’s photo.

        • We now have a photograph of the VOI White Dodge Dart rental with paper plates.. The car was spotted in Delphi on 2-12 in the AM. A woman was suspicious and photographed him. She also wrote down the license plate and we now have that also. There is a man leaning into the trunk in the photo.

          So the VOI can be placed in Delphi on 2-12 AM ~30 hours before the crime. And we now have the license plate # of the VOI! The license number traces back to Kokomo, and it expired in April.

  3. Chipscat

    Indiana State Police Sergeant Jerry Holeman, lead investigator on this case, gave a new, fairly long interview to a local abc station. It doesn’t sound like they are close at all to finding this person. I think that makes what’s being discussed here so much more important. Keep it up!

  4. Hoolie

    First time commenter but i’ve been following closely as this case and the evansdale cousins has me sickened. After reading the comment about the cell phone pinging all over the place, i thought just maybe th bridge guy may have been the guys that grabbed the girls and “delivered” the girls to the monster in the barn. After he dropped them off he may have been instructed to drive around for a while and didnt realize the phone was in the backseat. When he realized, he destroyed it. Other comments about a kid riding with somebody to a large farm and another about signs of the occult may suggest a larger “underground” presence. Could be part of something terrifying to even think about.

  5. Lotus

    I saw a photo in the news of a small building that seemed to be involved with the crime scene. It looks more like a storage shed or greenhouse. From what I recall, it was on RL’s property.

    My guess is that if video and audio actually exist, then police know exactly what happened. I am going with the theory that the girls were killed shortly after they were accosted by the man on the bridge, and that all this about the girls being held overnight or moved is not accurate. All of that seems too elaborate to be plausible.

  6. Hi, a lot of information on this site. im retired homicide and have done a little thinking on this. Not rumor but possess ideas based on fact. See what you think. I worked crimes against children and i know how these pedophiles think thats why I think this suspect is credible the only thing missing in my opinion is did he have the opportunity .https://youtu.be/VzEVNWUd4uk

  7. Kathy

    Do you believe he’s local? I don’t believe so because I believe he would have already have been caught. I’m so sorry to hear that they are back at square one! I was hoping they knew who it was and building their case!

  8. Benjamin Clark

    No way he took them anywhere. Then when a search party is going on he waits for it to subside, and cross his fingers that he does not get caught taking them to a dump site. Wheres all the blood at the barn scene? Where’s the disturbance of the earth and things around?

    • Lotus

      I agree. That theory is too preposterous.

      • Benjamin Clark

        It’s a good theory. And keep them coming. I just don’t see it that way at all!

        • Lotus

          Okay so you are disagreeing with yourself? Are you the killer?

        • You have a fantastic attitude Ben! I love your spirit. Spoken in the spirit of true open inquiry, the hallmark of the best science. Throw everything you’ve got at the problem. See what sticks, if anything. Don’t bash other theories. Most of the theories around this site are least commonsensical and not crazy.

      • Benjamin Clark

        No I just don’t want anyone to lose faith in their ideas, when their idea is denounced. Just saying it was a good thought but just because I don’t find it plausible, that don’t mean to stop their theories from coming in. That’s all!

      • My investigator on the ground asked members of the Mears family if their barn had been the kill site. He pointed to the barn as he asked that question. Based on the results of that conversation, I am 100% certain that the barn was the kill site.

    • Dlux

      Lotus, you have stuck to your theory about being killed on the south side of the creek this entire time. Do you think they were killed on the south side of the creek and waded across the creek and dumped? Just a quick hitter and the killer then left? If you don’t mind, walk us through your theory from “down the hill” to brumbaugh finding the bodies.

      • Lotus

        The police have video or audio and the crime scene, so they do know what happened. From my lack of knowing what happened, I am guessing based on what seems logical. I do think that when bodies of victims are found so close to where they were last known to be alive, they generally have not moved from that area.

    • You guys can keep saying that until the cows come home.

      My investigator on the ground asked members of the Mears family if the barn had been the kill site. He pointed to the barn as he asked that. Based on the results of that conversation, I am 100% certain that the barn was the kill site.

      Also the notion that they were removed for some time and then taken back via a drag trail is a story that comes straight from LE. I consider it a good source.

      • Dlux

        100% agree. My source has confirmed also. This is the worst kept secret in delphi.

      • Lotus

        Okay, then you are most likely accurate. Is the Mears barn unused? It seems that this must have been a local person, then, to not only be willing to walk on the bridge, but also to know about the barn and the layout of the land.

      • Mer

        The barn is a theory.

        Someone did leave flowers in the barn, and from the fading, they were possibly placed shortly after the crime. The flowers could not have blown in to the barn from the cemetery. They look like they were placed under the fencing in the barn so they would remain in that spot.

        It could have been the barn. It’s very convenient to the place the bodies were left. It would have been one of the first structures searched, along with RL’s farm. I think it’s been searched more than once, the second time with dogs.

        The barn is a logical site if the basic plan is a simple one, and I think it was a simple plan. The abduction occurred at the best possible location in the trail system. The barn is a 5 mile drive from the abduction. The barn is almost literally across the road from the site the bodies were found. It’s all very compact and simple.

        The killer knew about the barn. It wasn’t his property, and he didn’t dump the bodies on his own property. That’s what neighbors are for–I guess.

        He would have made a big effort to clean up the scene. It’s possible the crime was committed on a tarp and the blood was soaked up with towels.

        It’s possible that LE has not identified where the girls were taken. That is scary.

        • Lotus

          Why do you think he would bother to clean? Just curious.

        • eric alter

          Could have been to spruce the place up for the tickets and season passes Carrol County would be planning to sell too go in and take a look, if it was legit.
          I lived their 20 years and know most all of them. Victim’s Families included. So I can say that. Kind of like saying the “on the ground investigator” couldn’t find the maintenance road because in the Google Earth pic there’s leaves on the trees but everyone local knows exactly how to get there, get caught with a vehicle on it and your going to jail. Unless of course your a Good Ol’ Boy.
          Everything looks normal in the barn to me, either one of ya ever clean a barn floor? Or know an Amish person who’s father shunned him in church in front of everyone? Out that door to the left down the road a half mile there was one and a hole extended Family. As a matter of fact the Shunned individuals son shot himself in the head down there, Dad took the rap for treating Junior in such an I’ll manor. That’s not a rumor but then again I have a steak in this, therefore I’m not a credible source. Interesting because that’s not what the FBI said or the attorney I have in Lafayette says either. It’s not like I never lived there and trying to write a book.

        • eric alter

          Here’s another uncredible one. Have the “on the ground investigator” take the i.b. pics or YouTube video (if anyone saved it) over to I.P.C. tell the gaurd shack ya want Rodney Madison or Doug Draper. Their maintenance supervisors, show them. The shunned Amish guy and myself basically in the same time frame came from Tyson’s in Logansport to IPC after spending 40 to 50 hours a week together for like 9 years.
          Or just go to Tyson’s and ask for Dennis Timmons at the gaurd shack, you can tell him I sent whoever. Show him. What none of you know is, I’m not alone. Insult me to hell and back, makes no difference take it to them. Over looking the obvious is what got everyone. Things like the shadow on a face being a hat or thing that barn was abandoned. Only the locals and County People know this stuff. Long story short all of ya from wherever, Texas to the​ U.K. don’t know what the hell your talking about. The most amusing part is not only do ya not know what the hell your talking about but your telling people who have lived their entire lives there how it is, of course never having been there.
          ie it was February and because the barn didn’t have a tractor or Mr. Ed inside. The outside believes it’s abandon. Here’s one for ya Mears Family not only has the barn on a rotation for hay storage through out the winter. They probably lease farmable acerage.

        • Kim

          Eric, I’ve cleaned barn floors and know it’s almost impossible to get blood off if not concrete. Clearly you know a lot about this community and I think you should write a book!! But, if you don’t mind my saying, you do seem pretty cynical for a young guy who basically loves fishing :-)!

          Anyway, leaving the whodunit part out of this (and you may be correct on that part, time will tell and it is, unfortunately or not, dependent on your local LE now), What/How do you think this happened??

          You are presumably familiar with that part of the River from Fishing, what would some f**ked up middle aged man who chased two young girls across a bridge with murderous intent do with them ‘ down the hill’ before dumping their bodies on RL’s property?? They knew school was out that day, were waiting around the path/bridge entrance . . .

        • Kim

          Eric, below,is,a repost of,someone on Reddit. Do you think this slaughterhouse induced trauma played a role here? Possible rage killing? You are observed IB working there??

          Article cited from another site about RSO’s and the meat-packing plant. May not be relevant to crime but paints a grittier picture of the Delphi area…

          Originally Posted by blighted star

          No, you read right the first time. The 54 are all linked to Delphi. Check the other “known addresses” on most of them & you’ll see “Indiana Packers Co-op” (or something like it) on over 40 out of the 54 – because the abattoir up the road from the high bridge seems to have a hiring program for RSO’s. They’ve got men designated “sexually violent offenders” working on their kill floor & it doesn’t seem to occur to them that in that particular field of employment, it’s not necessarily a good thing to hire people who might be enjoying their work. Holy crap!

          This excerpt is taken from:

          Killing for a Living: Psychological and Physiological Effects of Alienation of Food Production on Slaughterhouse Workers

          By Anna Dorovskikh University of Colorado at Boulder


          In Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress: The Psychological Consequences of Killing, the study by Rachel M. MacNair describes Perpetration-Induced Traumatic Stress as a from of post-traumatic stress disorder with symptoms of drug and alcohol abuse, panic, depression, paranoia, dissociation, anxiety, and depression stemming from the act of killing.

          One study found that slaughterhouse workers, especially those responsible for the direct delivery of the act of killing and participating in the process of slaughter on a daily basis, may be susceptible to PITS as form of PTSD (Dillard, 2008).

          One of the symptoms of PITS is having recurring dreams of violent acts, and there are several reports of workers being taken to the mental hospital for treatment of severe cases (Dillard, 2008). Certain jobs like having the responsibility to be the first to kill the animal may have stronger effects on the worker than other jobs. Oftentimes substance abuse of drugs such as methamphetamine (Schlosser, 2002) and alcohol is very common amongst slaughter employees as a coping mechanisms of the emotional toll (Dillard, 2008).

        • eric alter

          We were all Desensitizied to a certain extent. I was a technician. We had the same rank as you might say and the same boss. I was a person he could call during production downtown situations which were very stressful for maintenance supervisors.
          He has a temper, was a punisher and would become very upset over “young Ladies” not acting proper. Witnessed this a few dozen times.
          Lots of tempers flying during these situations though, packing house related no, others were able to maintain composer.
          The packing houses do employee all those mentioned.
          This individual is of a different cloth of the Amish variety.

        • Actually Eric, your videos and account all make sense. You may very well have identified the unsub. The rest of us don’t know, so much of our contributions come in the form of debate and challenge. Also, no one wants to get sued, so if someone is wrongly accused, there could be a lot of paranoid commenters laying low for a while…lol.

          So don’t take offense if people are challenging your claims. We just don’t know what the final outcome will be, and until then, it’s always healthy to debate theories.

        • Dlux

          Eric Alter – I’d love to hear more from you, but you are very hard to follow. Can you clean up what you were trying to say and re-type. You seem to know what you are talking about, but your comments were harder to keep up with.

        • Lotus

          Eric A, Your insight as a local is valuable. Everyone here is testing ideas. I would like to summarize what I have gotten from your writings and correct me if I am wrong on any of these points:

          You think IB killed the girls. You think so because you think he looks like the man in the photos and he found the bodies. It sounds like you did not know him in real life.
          You think the killings did not take place in the barn. You say the barn was not abandoned, was used for hay storage, and it was February so it was not in season to be using a hay barn.
          You used to work at the meat packing plant and at Tyson’s.
          You worked with an Amish man who committed suicide because his father shunned him in church. He lived down the road from the barn.
          You say the hard-to-find access road near the Bridge trail is known to the locals, that it is gated off and that trespassing on it will result in arrest, unless one is a Good Old Boy.
          You say there were people in the town who had something to gain by picking on RL, including the police, who may have wanted to confiscate his gun collection to sell and profit from.

          Is this all correct?

        • Mer

          Eric Alter
          Your posts here are probably the best info about a person of interest on the site. The problem is, this guy has lawyered up, and we are afraid of being sued if we jump on this guy.
          Robert doesn’t think that unsub would kill the girls on his own property. I think I agree with that.
          If someone did use that barn and then dump across the road, then he has cast all the suspicion on other families–his neighbors

        • eric alter

          I agree, he lawyered up around March 13, Thanks​ for not raking me. I have no problem answering some questions. Nothing to hide here. Best thing is to just wait. I have had this discussion with an attorney. He won’t move because a request can be made for confirmation of suspect DNA matching a person. But Ives isn’t happy with such a scenario and I don’t want to be the one too piss him off anymore than he already is. Waiting is the best thing too do.
          I’m laying tile in my bathroom kinda busy.
          But I’m interested in the barn. These people all know each other including the Mears Family. There evidently was all this movement of those involed. That barn puts a person on the road traveling asap. A handful of individuals probably would have been able to go in and out of there without anyone thinking anything.
          It would seem as if whoever knew RL would be gone regardless of where things actually took place? On Google Earth I’m curious to see if there is a tractor with a frontend loader around?

        • Kim

          Very interesting Eric. Working with someone 9yrs I would say you know them.

          Last year I bought a German Shepard pup from an Amish farm outside of Ft. Wayne. I was pretty surprised as coming from a Dutch farming family myself I’d always had a favorable impression of the Amish. Huge farm, at least 20-30 folks living there, I had to follow someone from one farm to where the kennels were. There was group of older men slaughtering the largest steer I’ve ever seen and as I left one of the older teen boys ~19, pulled out a semi-automatic pistol (about the size of the thing in Unsub’s pocket) and was hanging out of his Dodge Dart waving it around for my admiration. The women wouldn’t talk to me at all and seemed relegated to the buggies.

          Definitely very complex psychology, must be especially hard for one ‘shunned’. I wouldn’t know what to make of all it as far as a psych profile with possible rage against women that to me, seems apparent with nearly decapitated corpses. If there were a religious community aspect to the FBI psych profile I doubt the public will ever see it.

          Hopefully the FBI brought in all the sociological/psychological expertise to cover all the aspects of the apparently complex community represented in/around Delphi. Thanks for sharing. (also, smartest GSD I’ve ever had although he does have serious epilepsy).

        • eric alter

          I know the Fort Wayne Amish areas well. For the most part they are good people. But they have been left too policing their own. In the area you mentioned. Amish Woman have walked into taverns and have men get them pregnant in the men’s bathroom so the can break a cycle of inbreeding. If they can emerge looking pregnant Dad and Uncles won’t try to win that prize. We’re talking hundreds of square miles in Indiana. When I say People​ from the outside don’t know Delphi this is why.
          Less than a half mile from the Monon Bridge Family ranches of Amish and Shunned Amish begin. There are groups of shunned Amish from the same Families and they to dwell together in their own area. A half mile down is the shunned side of the person’s Family I mentioned. He lived there forever. It’s where his son committed suicide allegedly.
          The shunned ones frequently surface as Mennonites. Having said this now look at People working in the Carroll county gov., One of them gives press conferences.
          The shunned ones are not outcasts and still hang out with the others. They know everything that goes on there. The Court House is still ran by them. If you call CPS in that County to report a sexual assault on a child an Amish Woman answers the phone. They have changed up their game. They will shave if their men, put on makeup if their woman. Follow one home and your gonna be surprised what driveway that car pulls up. I would not be the least surprised if recently German Baptist Elders have made plans to kill the person I have mentioned. The moment this takes an Amish twist publicly they the Amish will kill him or instruct him to kill himself.
          That last name more than likely is not going to standby and be associated with this crime.
          They already know it was him and they knew from the first day the bridge pics were released. He more than likely had explained to an Elder or two as to why he killed the victims also.
          This case is huge. This is another reason him or his family will not be filing lawsuits. They will put him down first and he is fully aware of this.

        • Sun

          Eric, your information causes the whole case to make more sense. It is unusual information fitting an unusal case. Thank you for sharing it.

          Don’t know that particular Indiana Amish community, but agree: many are nice but there are issues; they self-police; and some practice inbreeding prevention efforts.

        • Kim

          Holy S**t, I definitely think you need to write book (under pseudonym recommended). Especially interesting is the permeation of the county and court system. I can even see a non-rape motive now. I do agree you should take some stuff down and lay low now; protect yourself physically and legally. I’m not sure you’ve crossed any lines but just keep on safe side. I think you’re correct, this is quite big.

  9. Benjamin Clark

    I wonder if the Police have looked into individual in the area that are prescribed Viagra. Then do DNA swabs on them. If killer is in area (which I believe he is) and he is older (Like we all suspect) he may need pills to help get it up before his crime!

    • Hell I am 59. I’m thinking I could use some of that stuff myself. My services are still in regular demand. Instead of giving me donations, some of you all ought to send me some of those damn pills. 😀

  10. Lotus

    There are so many theories and rumors. Let’s look at what we, the public, do know. Here is a list:
    1. The killer is a white male. He appears to be middle-aged. He is around 5’8″ to 5’10” and has an average weight and build for a man that age.

    The killer walked across or on the Monon Bridge, which is very dangerous and rickety. This implies he has been on the bridge before and is used to it.
    The killer is an average non-flashy dresser for a man his age. Worn jeans, running or hiking shoes, a nondescript navy blue nylon-y jacket, probably a brown shirt, and a scarf. There are hints of him being more of a sloppy dresser than a neat dresser.
    The killer was dressed much too warm for the weather that day.
    The killer was present in the park on a Monday mid-day.
    The killer has a voice that sounds like an Indiana local or from some mid-Southern location.
    The killer appears to have known the layout of the park and the adjoining property.
    The killer conducted his acts in broad daylight.
    The killer conducted his acts against two young teenage girls.
    The girls’ bodies were left in a very easy to find location, very nearby where they were taken. This is opposed to being taken and buried, taken many miles away, or never being found.
    The photo of the killer has been seen by the girls’ families and apparently they have not identified the killer as being anyone they know.
    The one girl was very active on many forms of social media. She took many photos and videos and posted many of them.
    The man was strong enough or frightening enough that he was able to commandeer two very strong, agile girls who have been active in sports.
    It sounds like the killer did not spend any time trying to chat up the girls or trying to trick them. Instead, he immediately ordered them, “Down the hill.”
    The killer has managed to remain unlocated for several months.


  11. waltgogocom

    If he killed them in the barn why risk getting caught by moving bodies all the way back into woods where they were found? Wouldn’t he just leave them in barn and get the hell outta Dodge??

    • Dlux

      You are humanizing a sadistic, sociopathic killer. Why kill two teenage girls? Why do anything he/they did? Most of this case makes no sense and while this would seem logical to most, a killer probably loves taking unneeded risks.

      • Well it is well known that some of these guys abduct girls, take them to a structure somewhere, torture them slowly over a period of time, and then remove the body from the kill structure and dump it in some place like a near a river or canal. Evansdale and Amber Hagerman were both like that.

        Further, the mysoped criminal, the sadistic pedophile, typically just does this. He abducts sometimes in broad daylight in a brazen attack, takes the child to a structure somewhere and keeps them there for from one day to three weeks. They like to keep them alive for a while so they can torture them slowly. And these types typically kill in one place (a structure) and dump in another. That’s their basic MO as a criminal class.

    • Who knows man? Who knows why this maniac did anything in this insane case. This is almost as nuts as the Zodiac. This case is just straight up damn WEIRD.

    • lee

      he didn’t want to get the hell out of town because he lived in town or near town, maybe….also, I would love to know the search grid, who covered what area on that first night…did someone check out the barn and waved off anymore searchers…as in “nothing there”….?

      • Mer

        I doubt if the search was that organized…no search grid. I think the searchers expected to find the girls alive in the park. There would have been no reason to search nearby structures until the bodies were found–which was around noon the next day.

        A recurring question I have is where exactly were the bodies found? I have seen a few sources that indicate the bodies were found at the southeast portion of RL’s property. If that’s true, then it makes it less likely that the cemetery was used to dump the girls.

  12. David Hill

    Definition of a pedofile:

    Although strictly defined as one who is attracted to pre-pubescent children, pedophile is usually used and interpreted as describing adults who engage in sexual activity with children and/or teenagers below the age of consent.

    • I work in mental health. We are the ones who get to make the definitions of these terms. You guys don’t get to do that. The scientific definition is the one the mental health community has decided on. Everyone else is giving a false definition to the word.

      You actually believe this shit? It’s all women and feminists pushing this big lie. What sort of a “man” thinks fucking a 17 year old girl is pedophilia? No real man, that’s for sure.

      • Erin

        I am a female psychotherapist who specializes in trauma. I agree with you regarding hebephilia. I know you don’t care whether I follow or comment on this blog or whether or not I’m offended, but as a colleague with a graduate level of education in mental health, I ask that you please consider the implications of overgeneralizations regarding women as a whole. Mutual respect is the only way we can achieve anything.

  13. lee

    after reading all this, if Robert is correct in his musings, the guy has to be familiar with the area…with the bridge, with the local trails, the cemetery…..I think the guy is a local…..

  14. butch

    Why did the killer bother moving the bodies from the barn? If the barn was as dark as said to be, he could have left them there rather than risk being seen taking them back to dump site.. I am not from the area so I don’t know if this is possible, but could the killer have seen the two dropped off and knew of an entrance to the other side of bridge (possibly because he knows the town or area), walked to the bridge, passed the two girls on the bridge to verify no one else is in sight and then turned around to go after them? I don’t know why but I have a hard to considering that the girls didn’t try and take off and run if BG was walking across the entire span of bridge, presumably quite fast since he’s not on the bridge when liberty took the picture of abbey. The timeline video on YouTube makes it seem like that picture of abbey wad close to the end of the bridge.

    • A lot of people think he did pass them and then double back, and yes, he did trap them at the south end of the bridge. They literally had nowhere to go.

      Why the killer moved the bodies from the barn back to the woods near the abduction site is quite a mystery. But mysopeds do that anyway. Mysopeds typically abduct in one place, take the child to a structure where they rape, torture and finally murder them over 1 day-3 weeks and then they return the bodies to some dump site somewhere. They never leave the bodies in the place where they did the torturing, raping and murdering for some reason. It’s just the way they operate.

      Mysopeds – sadistic pedophiles. Unsub may indeed be one, although the crime is not pedophilic. Pedophiles will go above 12 to 13-14 because girls that age often still look like little girls in a lot of ways.

      My friends say 13 year old girls have “those little girl faces” and they are turned off by that. This is baby fat in the cheeks. A normal man is turned off by “girlness.” AS normal man likes “womanness.” The more a girl starts looking more like a woman and les like a girl, the more the normal man is getting interested.

      A pedophile is turned on by girlness. It’s “womanness” that he hates. A pedophile or hebephile will never go above age 15. They refer to females age 16+ as “grandmas.” I kid you not. I have been on their forums where someone posts a 16 yr old girl (totally legal pic) and then all the hebephiles start yelling, “Ew gross! Who posted the grandmas.” A 16 year old girl is a grandma to these guys. For some reason I find that hilarious. It’s so idiotic.

  15. ukewsdv

    Robert, I don’t know if you have seen, but there is a document https://npgallery.nps.gov/GetAsset?assetID=e8cd4d1a-7603-4395-b97e-19e6f0201b9a about the properties in the area. Page 15 (Section Number 7 Page 7) is about the Mears property.

    • Lotus

      This document is about the CEMETERY. Read the full documents, it is about the cemetery and says the cemetery has one historic building, a single residence.

      • Mer

        This is not about the cemetery. The Cemetery is Morning Heights Cemetery. It’s on CR 300N, not 200N. This document describes a 770 acre farm on CR200N in Carroll Co. It gives the property owners name.

        • Lotus

          The document linked above is about a cemetery in Delphi.. Scroll down to “Criteria Consideration” and it says “Cemetery.” This is about getting a listing for the property into the National Register of Historic Places. It lists the property owner as Mr. Lynn Corson. Toward the end of the document, it lists the other properties in Delphi that are on the National Register. Among them are the Mears Farm. The advantages of getting a property listed on the National Register include some funding that may be available and investment tax breaks. You can read more about it here:

    • Lotus

      Holy shit. Here is a pic of that man who owns the historic barn, Dr Lynn Corson — and whaddya know? He, too, looks like the Bridge Guy and has a dark blue jacket. I bet this dude has that same “Delphi” voice,too. Every man in this town looks like Bridge Guy and talks like him, too!

      • Mer

        This is not the man who owns the barn. Dr. Corson owns property on 200N. This photo is also 20 years old, so he would be in his 70’s now, or older. The barn that may have been used is on CountyRoad 300N. As Dlux told us, it is owned by the Mears Holding Company.

      • Mer

        The description of Dr. Corson’s property does include a mention of a cemetery. It’s probably an old family cemetery. There are 85 cemeteries in Carroll County. The Corson family does not own the barn pictured in Robert’s update, nor do they own the Morning Heights cemetery.

        • Lotus

          Yes, I had immediately posted a retraction/ explanation, but it never appeared. Perhaps it got caught in the spam filter. Thank you for posting the correction, which is more detailed than mine was. Thank you for watching.

  16. ukewsdv

    Also, I don’t entirely understand how the killer moved the girls into the supposed barn. It must have been in a car, right? So the car was parked near the south-east end of the bridge? Then he would have had to go with the car and abducted girls for a few kilometers, and get into the Mears barn. Or he parked the car in the south end of the cemetery, but in that case he would have to take the girls across the brook, which is quite wide. Then through the woods to the car in the south side of the cemetery. Which version is more likely?

    • Um yes vehicle parked at the south end of the bridge. There is a little used access road there, little more than a trail, that used to be used by bridge workers for maintenance of the bridge. Most people who go there do not even know it exists. My investigator has not yet figured out where this road even is, so it must be pretty hard to find.

      He parked on this obscure road, and from there, he could drive out past some properties, though a private drive out to a real road. Then he took a number of roads from the south side of the bridge over to the north side of the bridge. We figured out the exact route to take. It would be maybe a 5 mile drive and you would see almost no cars on the roads. I need to get the exact directions on the exact roads that he took.

      There is no way he took those through that, don’t call it a brook. It is now a raging river. Yes an investigator walked across it but it was 6 feet deep so it was pretty much over his head the whole time. It would have been over those girls’ heads. Those girls could not walk across the river and Unsub’s head would also be 2 inches underwater. Just didn’t happen.

      • VGLAny

        I’m pretty sure the south side access road you are talking about is a driveway to a single house way back off the road. It is very private, but it would be very ballsy to leave a car there if you were not a resident. This can be seen on Google Earth. I do agree that this is how it was done though. This person MUST be local…very local. I live here and would never have considered the options that were used in this crime.

        Also, the private barn is not far off the road and is pretty tough to get to from the other side of the creek…it was a drive. I would guess a vehicle was used for a majority of the raping and that the barn was used for the killing. Accessing RL’s pasture had to be by a person knowing the area, period.

        No question that this is a very local person, someone who was very comfortable getting around and using multiple properties with confidence. I think they know who it is and that they are much closer than has been let out. They don’t just pull out the troops in the most publicized case in recent history with no answers. IMHO.

        • Kim

          I agree VGL, in yesterday’s press conference I felt that Libby’s grandmothers statement that we needed to be patient and that LE was making sure that “he didn’t have any chance to get off” sounded like language they had told her they have a suspect and are tying up loose ends. I sure hope that is the case…

      • VGLante

        The south end of the bridge is accessible from a hidden driveway to a house down a long lane. The house is inhabited. To park along this drive would be ballsy and would require serious knowledge about the property, people living there, and the trail system. It is also a long fairly complex drive to the barn, a site not far off the road and visible by all passing.

        Entering the gate onto RL’s property again requires intimate knowledge of yet a 3rd private property, not to mention the cemetery, the trails, several back roads, and multiple entrances to the parks. This person is a local and is most likely VERY local. He entered the area with confidence in day light committed the act over a long period of time within visual and audible distance of who knows how many people. This is no stranger…it’s one of us, one of our community.

  17. Sun

    This is an excellent blog. Thank you especially, Dlux, for your work on the ground.

    No theories here, just thoughts your consideration. On some forum or blog – perhaps this one, I am still looking – folks referred to Ron Logan regularly parking his truck across the street from his property out of street view. He did this because he is not supposed to drive: if his truck was in his driveway and LE noticed it, it would not reflect favorably on his probationary status. Parking right across the street in full view would be similarly self-incriminating. Interestingly this discussion occurred early on, before the search warrants and before the Mears barn was identified.

    If that is correct, and Ron Logan used his vehicle on the 13th, returning in the evening to that location where his vehicle would be hidden, how could he be totally unaware that other people and a vehicle were there? Can you imagine the Unsub in there with the girls, hearing a vehicle pull up and seeing headlights? Perhaps an Unsub who’s local, and knows Ron Logan shouldn’t be driving, especially inconveniently onto his private ongoing crime scene? I wonder if this may be why LE could be thinking RL has more information.

    • That barn is like a black hole or a cave. You cannot see a damn thing in there. RL could not see anything in that barn from the street if he looked in there.

      • Sun

        I agree that from the DLux photos, it looks unlikely that he could see anything from the street. But from what I have read, he was regularly hiding his truck, out of sight of the street, on the Mears property itself. So he would be trying to hide his truck on the same property the Unsub would be attempting to hide his car and victims. A more likely scenario for seeing something than from the street. Again, this is just what people have said. But it is interesting they said this well before the Mears property was brought up in the context of a crime scene.

        • Dlux

          Thanks Sun, I didn’t provide the photos however. I have just been to the sites.

        • Lotus

          It sounds like RL parked his vehicle in the same spot all the time.

        • Mer

          I think RL was supposed to park his car beside his garage and visible to the police. It sounds like they were keeping tabs on where his truck was parked before this crime. They may have been waiting to catch him driving on an a revoked license.

        • Lotus

          To me, it sounds like there was some court order saying he could not drive. But he lives in the country, so of course he needed to drive. It sounds like he was driving all the time and parking across the road. He only got in trouble for driving because murder victims were found on his property.

  18. Sun

    Regarding Ivan Brumbaugh’s DNA, could LE have circumstantial information? Was the touch DNA from a location consistent with Brumbaugh’s story of his discovery? Was his story plausible? For example, if there is touch DNA around the girls’ ankles, how could that be consistent with trying to render assistance?

    With one exception, the idea of “rendering assistance” seems troubling for a normal human being, aside from EMT personnel. I once attended a work safety conference where photos of deceased “freak” construction accident victims were shown. My immediate reaction was not sympathetic, it was visceral. It triggered adrenaline which is probably a physical defense mechanism, as seeing someone who just died violently could mean you are in the presence of danger. In any event, the Delphi searchers were likely instructed to not to compromise the crime scene. And a searcher should logically expect immediate EMT assistance to be rendered to two children for whom an entire community was searching. The only plausible explanation is that Abby was still obviously alive and he was comforting her. That would mean there would be touch DNA in locations on her body consistent with that, and none on Libby who by all accounts was clearly deceased for some time. Do your sources shed light on any of this?

    • Or he felt her body and noticed it was still warm, or if she was obviously alive. Problem is that there is a stick speared in Abbie’s abdomen. If Abbie was warm at 12:30 PM, that stick could have plunged in her no earlier than 10:30 PM. Trust me when I say that despite her heroic lingering, that stick is just going to kill her. So the killer speared Abbie with a stick at 10:30 AM in the morning! Why? Simple. The killer came back to the scene at 10:30 AM for God’s knows why. He sees Abbie is still alive and he flips. If she survives somehow, she can implicate him and he is a dead man. He has to kill her! He reaches around, grabs a stick and plunges it into her abdomen, killing her instantly! A Parthian thrust! Further he has now saved his own ass by making sure both girls are dead. Then he takes off, his mind eased that the girls are both dead.

      IF that stick was in Abbie and IF she was warm at 12:30 PM, the stunning conclusion is that she was speared at 10:30 AM in broad daylight on 2-14!

      The implications are stunning. Who was there at the time? Searchers? Had a search started? Some said a new search had started at 9:30 AM. This information is imperative. If the search was going on, the killer returned to the site WHILE THE SEARCH WAS ONGOING to check on the bodies somehow, flipped out when Abbie was alive, speared her with a stick, finishing her off and saving his own ass in the meantime.

      If there were searchers there, who was he? A searcher? The killer who snuck back to the site while a search was ongoing? Crazy!

      • Mer

        My impression from reading a Delphi Topix is that the search on 2-13 may not have been too extensive. Someone said it started around 5pm and ended a couple hours after dark. If the search continued that day until 2:30 am it may have been just family members and friends. Daylight on 2-14 was around 7:30 am. The girls were allegedly found around 12:30, just after noon. There was a full 5 hours of daylight that morning. I don’t think too many people were searching–just my opinion. I think people were assuming the girls were missing, but safe somewhere–like they had been drinking at some guys place or something like that.

        The big search, with light trucks, and a massive LE presence was probably on 2-14 after the bodies were discovered.

        • Dlux

          I think the search was pretty extensive on 2-13 as they realized an abduction scene pretty quickly after the search began. I could be wrong, but this is what I have heard.

      • Sun

        I apologize for the graphic discussion, but am trying to add to an understanding of what is possible.

        Depending on where and how deeply Abbie was impaled, she might have lived for awhile. Jennifer Schuett had her throat slit from ear to ear and was left in a field to die at night. She was discovered alive the evening of the next day, because the assailant didn’t hit “any major vessels”. He did cut her trachea. The blood vessels in her eyes were popped from his attempt to also strangle her.

        There are industrial accidents where removing what has impaled or pinned a worker brings upon their death, so the company will wait for the family to come out and say goodbye.

        • Lotus

          If this impaling story is true, how about this theory: Maybe one of the searchers brought a stick with a point at the end, to help in climbing the terrain and in picking up and poking at things on the ground. The girls were covered in leaves. Maybe it was a searcher poking into the leaves who happened to poke her? Maybe the poking was a searcher accident long after she died. Is that possible?

        • Sun

          Again, sorry to be graphic, but think of a side of beef. Could you accidentally impale it with a stick? I’ve read that stabbing someone even with a knife requires serious commitment.

          While as a person Ivan Brumbaugh seems like a dubious suspect candidate, the physical situation doesn’t make sense. We hear the girls were covered with leaves. Brumbaugh found them alone and had to “travel” to report his finding, so the report is at his word. We hear the girls’ bodies were posed. A killer’s bold move to return the bodies to the original area, even posing them, suggests he not only wanted the bodies to be found, but to create a sensation when they were. Why on earth would such a person then try to conceal the bodies? If one suggests the killer covered them because he felt that he was about to be discovered, his time would have been better spent getting away as soon as possible, rather than trying to gather up layers of decaying, matted, months-old wet leaves that had recently been snowed on,

          If “covered with leaves” is because Brumbaugh said it, and he was responsible for their deaths, it would make sense. Their concealment would be his way to explain how somehow, in an area that was just searched, he just happened to find these girls. “Discovering” them would give him the pleasure of seeing the carnage one more time, and the pleasure of participating directly in reporting the gruesome discovery. It would allow him to explain away his touch DNA. Since he was alone he could move leaves and make the scene match his “covered with leaves” story.

          Here’s where Robert’s theory comes in. Upon what he expects to be one last joyful visit, he realizes Abby is alive. He panics. He wasn’t planning to have to keep killing her, so he grabs a nearby stick. He’s really motivated to kill her immediately, because he still needs to report the discovery as people know he is searching this area. And if she lives she can obviously report him. Maybe the “covered with leaves” story arose out of necessity because now he has contaminated the site he so carefully prepared.

          This may appear to be overthinking, but the murderer’s actions show he is intelligent. Business owners do tend to be Type-A thinkers and risk-takers.

          Please poke holes in this logic because it is disturbing.

        • That is not going to work. First of all, they were not both covered with leaves. Maybe Libby was. Abbie had crawled a significant distance was from Libby somehow despite her grievous wounds. The bodies were not even found together. If Abbie was originally covered with leaves, then when she crawled away, obviously she would have crawled out of the leaf cover and when she was found, she was NOT covered by leaves. So she would not have been under leaves that could have resulted in her getting impaled by a guy poking around in the leaves.

          Anyway, a guy poking around in leaves with a sharp stick like that would not have impaled her so grievously. The only way she could have been impaled like that is if she lying on her back naked and he straddled her, standing over her, raised that stick high, and drove it down into her abdomen full force. Take a sharp stick and poke a friend in the stomach with it. Imagine what sort of extreme force and violence would be necessary if you wished to drive that pile into that person.

        • I disagree with the notion that Abbie survived her impaling. At first, I thought she had survived her impaling, but then I talked to Merrill. Merrill is a physician and he told me that if he stood over her and with great violence thrust that spear into her abdomen, that would have killed her instantly. He gave a few reasons why it would have been instant death.

          I will take his view as an MD for now.

        • Sun

          Robert, I am confused. Perhaps just above you were responding to Lotus’ comment about a searcher accidentally impaling her. I didn’t help by yesterday commenting that Abbie may have lived awhile.

          I now agree she probably died shortly after impaling. My most recent comment this morning just above (the 28th) reflects that theory, please see again. And Mer’s medical insights support that theory.

          I believe that means that what you just said is consistent with my most recent comment. The impaling was done at the last minute, and by an extremely motivated person. Yes, by the killer who was suprised to realize she was still alive as you previously speculated.

          One detail to iron out is the “crawled away” issue. Building on the theory in the my first April 28th comment, perhaps he speared her, covered the bodies, reported the discovery, and was shocked to learn later that survivor Abby not only survived his inital attack, but even crawled a ways after his second attempt to finish her off. What a girl.

        • Mer


          Let me clarify what I said about the the stick that supposedly impaled Abigail. It could result in a quick death if a major vessel was cut or torn. It would be a pretty good shot to hit the aorta, or the vena cava, or the portal vein and cause massive hemorrhage. Even then it would take some time for her to expire. Maybe as much as a half hour. A torn aorta can tamponade itself off. This is when the hemorrhage collects in a pocket and pressure builds up effectively stopping further bleeding.

          The only way to die instantly is to be at the epicenter of a nuclear explosion.

          I was in Delphi again today. I looked for the trail that LE says was used to access the end of the bridge. It wasn’t the driveway, it was supposedly a trailhead, dirt road, or trail that was used. LE had said it was a very unknown trail, and I believe them. I can’t figure out where that trail is.

          I talked to 3 people, one of whom said she was a friend of Abby’s mother. They don’t know anything. LE has this thing so tight, that anything we read or hear about could be a wild rumor.

          The search the night of 2-13 was law enforcement and fire personnel only. The families may have been down there, but volunteer citizens were not. The search the next day started as an early gathering at the police station at 6:30 am. I didn’t question the girl about what she was instructed to do, but I’m sure everyone was told not to touch the bodies if they found them. IB is rumored to be the person who found the bodies, so he would have alerted LE and they arrive at the bodies at 12:30 pm.

          I think the main focus of each search was the south side of the creek. The woods is very large around the area. I’m just going to say they were searching about 100 acres of woods in all.

        • Mer

          The total acreage of woods searched–woods around the trails and bridge and adjacent wooded areas looks like it might be as much as 400 acres. I looked on map quest.

      • So with all of this info, what do you think the likelihood of it being satanic/ritualistic in nature? It’s all so messed up and bizarre.

        • Lotus

          I have not heard of any element that sounds like this crime involved any satanic ritual. However, I think that to commit such a crime, the perpetrator must have long ago given his life over to evil. That happens decision by decision over the course of years. People involved in sexual killing or child killings usually have a collection of pornography that entices them to commit such crimes. What they put into their heads then turns into action. In that sense, the crime is satanic or evil.

    • Sure and what if he touched both girls. What for? Libby is long gone, nearly decapitated. Touch her why? To make sure she is dead? Please.

      So he touched Abbie for sure, possibly to see if she was warm and alive. Ok fine. But where did he touch her? An innocent area? What if he touched her breasts or vulvo-anal region!? What excuse is there for that?! If he felt her up sexually when he found her, that searcher is in a heap of a mess whether he killed her or not. Not to mention it’s pretty necro. Gross.

      • Lotus

        oh please delete that comment.

        • Nope it is important. My investigator and I were discussing that. This is everything goes here. This is one sick and fucked up beyond all imagination crime so we can pretty much talk about whatever as long as it is quite relevant to the case. Squeamish people should not be on this site.

          And if the guy who found the bodies is the killer, he may have touched her in some weird areas. Maybe other searchers who find bodies do too. A lot of men are pretty fucked in the head about sexual stuff.

      • Mer


        Your covered with leaves statement is very good. If the killer returned the morning of 2-14, he or she may have finished off Abby then covered the bodies with leaves. His entire reason for returning them to as to make it look like they never left the trail area. By placing leaves over the bodies, he could create the impression that the bodies were overlooked in the search on 2-13

        If Robert’s theory that Abby was impaled on the morning of 2-14 is correct, the important question is whether she is covered with leaves, or not. If she was finished off with a stake at 9am, then she would have been covered with leaves by the killer after that. If she was impaled earlier, assuming the bodies were dumped in the dark, and then crawled around with the stake in her body, she would not be under leafy cover

        • Sun

          Agreed. If Brumbaugh did impale her on a re-visit and then covered her, it would be highly incriminating. However if he’s the killer, that logical oversight wouldn’t be consistent with his eye for detail, so it doesn’t necessarily mean he’s innocent if she was uncovered.

          What about the information that the girls were posed? I have never heard “Libby was posed, but Abbie wasn’t”. If Brumbaugh wasn’t the killer, how could the killer dump the girls and pose them, and then Abbie crawled a ways away and was still posed? Again, it’s hard to believe Brumbaugh as killer would be stupid enough to re-pose her or pose them both on a revisit but if he did, it would again be incriminating.

          The “impale later” theory – which implicates Brumbaugh – seems stronger for a few reasons. The killer liked to do his bad things at the other crime scene. Thanks to Mer we know it is unlikely a person could miraculously crawl around with a stick in them for many hours. A stick would likely be impaled from the front, making it potentially infeasible to crawl if on hands and knees. Another reason: It’s reasonable to expect Abbie played dead when being dumped. Surely she knew whether he thought she was dead. If I were her I’d think, “Soon he’ll be gone and I can try to escape”. Or perhaps she was unconscious. It’s hard to imagine her giving him any indication she was alive upon dumping.

          Do we think that LE is having these kinds of discussions?

        • Mer


          I don’t think LE is having these exact conversations. We are probably so far off what really happened.

        • Mer


          If the killer did return and impale Abby, he probably did it just at the break of dawn. If that happened, he was there to make sure he didn’t leave evidence at the scene, and he needed daylight to get a good look around.

        • Lotus

          Or . . . he spent the night there. If you’re going to kill people, might as well make the most use of it.

      • Mer

        Let’s change the phrase touch DNA to contact DNA. The DNA has transferred because of touching or contact. It could be a lot of contact or it could be minimal contact. I read that it takes about 7 or 8 cells to create enough DNA for the test to be positive. It could be millions of skin cells. It’s still touch DNA, I think. The point is it’s not from blood, or semen, it’s from contact or touch.

      • Tig

        My first time commenting— agree about this.. plus if Abbie did crawl away, it would seem that she did so before being impaled and would not be able to moved after being impaled.

      • Mary Rockhold

        Why was IB searching alone? Had read the search party was divided into groups of 10-12 and assigned a specific grid to search?
        Really strange he was searching alone.

        • Lotus

          I never saw anything that said he was searching alone, just that he found the bodies. When you search methodically, each person is responsible for a different section. Keep in mind, a lot of what you are hearing is rumor and made up. From all I have read, there is nothing other than he helped with the search, he found the bodies, and some contact DNA transferred from him to a body, which is not at all unusual.

        • eric alter

          You should direct that question to him and or his girlfriend.

    • Lotus

      I read that the girls were under leaves. He may have brushed the leaves away to see if it was really them. Keep in mind, he and other searchers probably expected to find the girls sleeping or injured (falling from the bridge?), or maybe thought the girls got themselves drunk or high and incapacitated. Family thought the girls may have started hiking to go visit a relative in a nearby town. Even upon finding the bodies, it would be unlikely to at first assume they are dead, even if they appear dead.

      Touch DNA is usually very small amounts of DNA. When you go to the grocery story and the clerk hands you change and a receipt, you are probably also picking up each others’ DNA.

      The killer probably left large amounts of DNA on the girls, as well as fibers, hair, fingerprints.

      • Mer

        Apparently, no one has ever fallen from the bridge. I do think you could jump off the bridge into Deer Creek and survive. The danger in crossing the bridge is the spacing of the railway ties. It’s uneven and you need to pay attention where you put your feet.

      • Sun

        Does LE have appreciable quantities of an unidentified individual’s DNA consistent with Lotus’ thoughts above, and they just don’t have a match? The answer could damage the Ivan Brumbaugh theory. Can anyone find this out?

      • Sun

        Taking a step back: For those of you with LE contacts, has LE has gone through all of our thought processes here? Have they reached a conclusion and just need more evidence to arrest/convict? (Robert seems to have hinted at the answer to this). Are we helping them, or are we now trying to get to a place where they are already? LE can answer that without giving anything away. The answer can help us know how much sleep is worth losing to sleuth it out.

        • Lotus

          Don’t lose sleep. Your best insights may come during sleep.

          As to helping the investigation, the police have asked people to report their tips via the phone line or email. If you have a tip you post here, also send it to police. The email is good because you can include links, attach photos and other files.
          The police tip email for this case is:

    • VGLAny

      My thing about “touch DNA”….these girls were brutally beaten and mutilated….who touches that??

      • Lotus

        DNA samples on murder victims are often contaminated with DNA from searchers, police, EMTs, lab workers, etc. There’s a whole lot of people leaving touch DNA on murdered bodies. That is why it is common in investigations to get DNA samples from everyone involved so those can be ruled out from the list of DNA found on the body. In addition, these girls probably had DNA on them from each other, their families, friends, etc. The best kind of DNA would be skin scrapings under their nails, if they fought with the killer. Another good source would be semen, if any was present. It would be real hard to abduct, rape, kill, drag, without leaving DNA.

        What I have read is there is DNA in this case, but it does not match anyone in the databases. If this is true, this means the killer is a person that has never been caught before in a violent crime. There are now photos, a voice sample, most likely DNA, and he still have not been identified. I still think he must be a local or former local, because I don’t think anyone else would go and get on that bridge. The only ones I could see traveling just to see the bridge might be a railroad history fan. You couldn’t bring pets or kids on the bridge and you couldn’t ride a bike on it.

  19. Hoolie

    Cause of death: exsanguination possibly? If so, it would be horrifying and certainly a significant factor if hardly any blood was found. From the photos nothing seems to indicate an area of massive bleed-out. This is conjecture based on rumors that their throats were slit. Hard to imagine they would clear the crime scene (barn) that quickly if there was a massive amount of blood/DNA/evidence there. So why would the killer want their blood? Evil redefined.

    • Mer

      That would be reflected in the sealed autopsy.
      Let’s say an otherwise healthy, living human has it’s throat slashed. The wound would bleed out profusely until the circulating blood volume is so reduced that the person is pulseless. That would be called pulseless electrical activity (PEA) caused by hypovolemia. In other words no actual pumping of blood because there is no blood to pump. The crime scene would show a massive amount of blood–nearly your entire circulating volume would be on the ground.
      Many of you reading this will succumb to some variety of PEA–generally from an electrolyte disorder. Cheers!
      However, if a human is already dead–in this case from trauma other than a neck slashing–then the only blood loss from the neck wound would be blood oozing from the tissues immediately near the wound. The blood loss would be minimal, and the autopsy would show a patient with a normal volume of blood in her vessels.
      So, it’s possible that the crime scene isn’t too bloody

      • Lotus

        I once saw a man with superficial slashing of his neck, ear to ear. He bled and it coagulated, but he was out and about (possibly in shock).

  20. RC

    On the far right edge of the circle in the photo of what may be a vehicle under the bridge I swear I can see a face and hand behind what appears to be some object with a pattern on it.

  21. What are your thoughts on JDL as a suspect? Didn’t he assist w/search? Isn’t he an RSO? The nose is similar.

    • Dlux

      Isn’t JDL about 5’2″. Unsub is much taller. Plus I heard he skipped town because of harassment about this case from locals, media, and crime tourists.

      • Neferbunny

        5’2″? Good Lawd, he’s Tyrion Lannister! He doesn’t look that short in the video of him and I thought he looked exactly like BG.

        • Lotus

          Every older man in Delphi looks like BG. They all sound like him, too.

        • Mer

          You are right about that. I was in Delphi earlier today and half the guys I saw on the street could be the killer in the photo

  22. Cora Danchison

    New here to posting. I have been following this horrific crime. Viewing the subject, the thick foliage and obscure paths. There is no doubt that this individual was here before and knew the terrain and area very well. To navigate the way you state things happened, he had to be very comfortable in the surroundings. To walk that bring and let alone with his hands in his pockets he was comfortable and knew it well. No one that is a drifter is going to just stroll through and cross that bridge as casually as he did.

    “Down the hill”, he knew exactly where the path was he was taking them. His adrenaline was pumping with thoughts of what he was about to do and yet carried himself very calmly because he knows the area well. I decided to do some research and check out hiking photos from that area. I came across one that stood out of an individual.

    He bares striking resemblance in many ways from clothing type, build, the way he dressed, etc…Also bulging articles in coat the way BG is carrying and the way he stands with hands in pocket. Also I compared this photo to a sketch by another sleuth and the resemblance is striking. The picture is a few years old, but this would then put him in the 50’s range now I would think. Here is link to the page individual is right in front of instructor for the hike.


    • Dlux

      The private road and drive is constantly gated under lock and key. That said, I do believe this road was used by the killer(s).

      • Mer

        There is info in an earlier update that the area was accessed by a little known trailhead that leads to a road beside and south of the creek. This was from LE.

        I’m in Delphi now, and can’t find that trail. It’s hard to find

        • Dlux


          Sorry, should clarify. I believe you have to access the maintenance road from the road that is gated off. I believe it is 650e. Drive back and check it out. It summed things up for me. Also, talk to the homeowner on 650e, just before the road goes private. He is very interesting.

        • Lotus

          You’re there?? Please take pics and post.

        • Mer


          I saw people on the porch on my third trip to delphi, about 10 days ago, but I didn’t talk to them. The road is 625W. The gate to the drive is secured with a chain and padlock. I bet it wasn’t locked before the crime. It makes sense that the access road would come off the driveway, but I can’t get in there. I also wanted to see the dump site, but they put up extra no trespassing signs. I could have slipped in but I just didn’t.

          The barn is not what I would call deserted. They have moved some hay since I was last there. There are no cattle there, but they have 10 to 15 large round bales stored in the barn. So, they do use the barn a little.

          I just hope that LE does have a good suspect.

  23. tonya florine

    Robert Lindsay please email me

  24. Lotus

    I want to spur a little conversation by raising some recent or nearby (to Delphi) murder cases that have not been resolved. Do you think any off them could be connected to Delphi or to each other?

    Lauren Spierer – student at U Of I in Bloomington, missing after a night of using drugs and alcohol. Never found.

    Rhoden Family – 8 family members gunshot to heads while sleeping in 4 trailer homes in Pike County, Ohio.

    Missy Bevers – exercise instructor killed in a church center in Texas by someone wearing tactical gear and helmet, caught on video. She got weird message on LinkedIn a few days before she was killed.

    Katelyn Markham – Fairfield, Ohio, art student, mysteriously vanished from home and found dead in Indiana in woods near a creek.

    • aaron

      April Tinsley – Fort Wayne, IN. 8 yr old. 1988 and has taunted police over the years. Very sick strange case also. They have DNA though and I’d assume FBI checked into it.

  25. Sheila Kay Benn

    It just occurred to me….you mentioned Indiana Packers….the double homicide in Iowa…. Iowa Beef is a meat packing plant. Who at Indiana Packers had to visit the meat packing plant in Iowa. I think whoever it was is the killer of both the Delphi and Evansdale.

  26. ukewsdv

    Watch this video at 1:19. It shows a topographic map of the area. It’s perfect to get orientated.

  27. Kim

    Not sure if this is useful, it’s from one of the Delphi murder FB pages where someone obtained a copy of the court order sealing the autopsy results.

    The provider feels it gives more reliable death date than an obituary? Indicates both girls died on 2/13.

    • We feel that the dates in that report are not accurate, nor do they have to be.

      • Kim

        Ok, makes sense 🙂

      • Kim

        Robert, feel free to take that post/comment down then to save your blog space. Also, good job doubling down with new update/photos etc.

        I’m going to make another donation to your WordPress site to thank you for working on behalf of these girls. 🙂

      • Jordan Cavanaugh

        Abby’s family chose the 14th as DOD because of the day they were found, Libby’s family went with the day they were killed, the 13th. Both families have clarified numerous times that Abby and Liberty were dead on the same day.

  28. Pueblo

    The Rhoden Family murders in my opinion they were related to a drug war of some kind. The only parallel I see in that investigation to the one in Delphi – the police are small town and ill-equipped to deal with crimes of this magnitude. No way in hell Bridge Guy is local after getting away with it for this long. I believe he may even be a drifter of some kind and stumbled upon the trails in Delphi and the two young girls on the bridge that day. He may or may not be a traveling serial killer.

    But be rest assured, the same guy may have committed the same crime in Evansdale, but he is in no way, shape or form linked to the Rhoden Family murders done in Ohio. Too bad Robert was unable to follow that case when it first happened and sleuth it more like he is doing the one for Delphi.

    That somebody could kill 8 family members in darkness, with dogs going crazy and barking out of control without being stopped, that person or persons took out an entire family, and the police in Ohio have been unable to solve it or even name a POI.

    What makes you think the Sheriff’s office can solve the Delphi murders? Even with the FBI’s assistance and the technology at their disposal, Bridge Guy has still not been identified yet after all this time. That is baffling to me that the nation and law enforcement has been unable to identify this man. It’s baffling that this happened in broad daylight as well.

  29. Agris

    This has kept me up every night. I don’t know if it’s good or bad I found this site and read the likely details of what happened as now I’m really not going to sleep. Can it be determined if Abby was indeed pregnant? Then there is possible motive of someone being angry/shamed needing to end the pregnancy. If she wasn’t pregnant maybe she made it up. I can’t wrap my head around a man just waiting for potential victims, it’s almost as if he had to know they were going to be there and their loyal bond. It’s brazen to go after one victim let alone two, when the opportunity for one to get away exists. If not personal, then it seems he must have committed murder before and this was more of a challenge, he is too confident. How did he know someone wasn’t too far behind him or running on the trail- is this not a trail people run on with the tracks in this condition? He would have to know this. I can’t imagine an older man finding their plans on social media through hashtags or geo location, if they posted anything beforehand I don’t know. The violence suggests passion crime/hatred. In the pictures, a rectangular “box like” shape keeps popping out at me in his left pant leg. The bridge itself appears very dangerous, rotting and missing ties? How is this open to the public? I watched the bridge wimp video and he keeps stating to be very careful. I’m going over this in my head wondering how they could have taken control of the situation, maybe if they were armed with a weapon or a gun ( with knowledge how to use) since they were had nowhere to go.

  30. Mer

    The autopsy would reveal if the girl was pregnant.
    You can’t run on the bridge. You would end up misjudging a gap and your leg would fall between 2 cross ties. The rest of the trail system would be perfect for cross country running.
    The rectangular shape on his left leg is sunlight reflecting off his left pant leg.
    If he didn’t have a gun on them, they would have run into the woods at that end of the bridge and escaped–at least one of them anyway.

  31. Lotus

    Here is a picture of the Delphi searchers – and notice each one has a long stick, most likely with a point at the end.

  32. Lotus

    Scroll down to the second picture on this link — this is the small cabin or structure where I thought the girls were allegedly murdered. This is on RL’s property.

    • Lotus

      Oops It seems that property is the one on Bicycyle Bridge Road that was searched shortly after the bodies were found. According to police reports, nothing was found there..

  33. Sun

    150+ comments in two days. You’ve really done something special here Robert.

  34. Mary loewen

    If as you say a 60 year old man did this, Out of no where he must be of excellent health. This would of taken time, lots of time, I’m sorry I just don’t see it happening this way. It would take way to much planning… Just my opinion…
    My heart aches for these babies.

    • Lotus

      The girls were killed, the man in the bridge pictures killed them. The man on the bridge looks middle-aged and his voice sounds middle-aged. He could be strong and healthy, or his strength and energy in this incident could have come from drugs or mental illness.

      Without the photos, it might be assumed these killings were committed by tough young gang members or an angry teen. With the pictures and voice, we know the killer is an older white man, probably from the region.
      It is what it is.

  35. ej

    I’d like to propose some logic combined with some logical questions and offer my opinion on some of the possible scenarios presented and discussed in this forum.
    – Rob mentioned early on that the bridge suspect is left handed due to a left handed draw to pull the firearm from the jacket. It is agreed that the bridge suspect is local for obvious reasons as mentioned in this forum.
    Only 10% percent of the population is left handed. Thus in a community of 3000 this would reduce possible suspects to 300 and eliminate right handed people as being the bridge suspect. The Census stats on male and female population have males slightly over 50% of the population. At the least this reduces the 300 left handed Delphi residents to 150. Age, race and other factors reduce the 150 further.
    – Many on this forum including Rob claim to have access to inside information via LE, family members of victims and Delphi residents who posses privileged information.
    Assuming these sources of information are true, answers to the following questions should be very simple to get.
    – Has LE or the Family stated that I.B. is not a suspect?
    – Has the Suspect DNA been identified to an individual?
    – Who specifically was the individual whom discovered the victims?
    – When will the FBI profile be released that was announced to be in the process of producing on March 8, 2017?
    – Why did outside law enforcement leave after the March 13th press conference?
    Once again for anyone that has LE and others providing inside information, these questions are very basic and should be rather easy to be answered.

    Opinions and some of my thoughts are:
    No insult intended to Rob or anyone else. If you are from the area and familiar with Delphi you would know that a lot of what is stated in this article is basically nonsense.
    Here are some examples.
    – Deer Creek is never 6 foot deep unless their has been a large amount of rainfall which does put the creek at 6′ approx 2 – 3 times a year.
    – Barns in the area are not abandon. Even collapsed barns are watched by the owner as most intend to sell the aged beams and lumber. People with farming knowledge can expand on this.
    – Feb 13 was exceptionally warm weather and most emerged out into their yards and property. although the 5 mile trip in a circle from under the north side of the bridge to Mears’ barn is possible. It would not have been possible without a few Howdy neighbor waves of the arm.
    The local aspect of this is endless I will end this part by simply saying.
    The Mears’ Barn is not the kill site it’s not likely anyone local would even give this 2 seconds of thought to such a scenario.
    However respectfully Rob is firm on this being the kill site as his source is LE. This should make it rather easy to get answers the questions I listed above.
    My opinion is:
    Does LE leak information to a person who they know is going to put it on a website. Of course not. Would LE leak false information to keep sleuths and others from interfering with an investigation. Yes of course. Would they leak false information waiting and monitoring for someone to correct it with true information. Yes of course.
    It took 9 days to recover suspect DNA allegedly from the scene. Another 7 days I believe to have processed.
    Nine days to recover DNA is in no way consistent with DNA recovery on rape and torture scenarios. Also types of DNA such as body fluids, tissue and hair do not take 7 days to process.
    Therefore there was not a rape.
    There is not a car under the bridge. it’s clear when the pic is expanded, what appears to be the roof of the vehicle is puddle of water, what appears to be trim on the vehicle are shadows from small trees and what looks like a mirror is part of the bridge.
    The supposed hat on Unisub in this article is another example of a person not being from the area. Meaning that the locals don’t wear hats like that. That hat alone would be an identifier on the Unisub.
    Frail old man? No. Probably one of the healthiest 63 year old males in Carroll county.
    Artist? No.
    Estranged from close family and family? Yes
    Was he a Maintenance Supervisor in a packing house for 9 years? Yes
    The YouTube videos of I.B. have been made private as to not interfere with the investigation and taint potential jury selection.
    Questions for me should be held until the above questions are answered by those who claim to have contacts in LE feeding them information on this case.

    Thanks too Everyone, keep up the good work and attention to details.

    • Lotus

      Thank you. I also agree the barn theory is nonsense.

      On IB – he himself identifies himself as an Artist on his Facebook, and posts pictures of his art, which is quite good. See, you don’t know everything.

      The Youtube videos, if they were made private, would be because Youtube does not allow such videos that name a person’s name, shows their photo, and accuses them of crimes and defames them.

      “Jury selection”? Dream on.

      • eric alter

        People can be whatever they want on Facebook. I would suggest talking to someone who actually knows I.B., as I recall he mentions his art in his closed wine shop as being rendered from another and it still remains on the wine shop Facebook page as being for sale.
        Your end remark of not knowing everything is rediculous and unnecessary.

        • Kim

          Point confirmed, I also noted the art was by a woman artist not IB, I googled her also. I appreciated hearing the voice-match audio very much; it was revelatory. If he’s the guy then you did a public service and I’d personally contribute to the reward. If not, and I were IB, I would understand given the times and situation and would move on.

    • Has LE or the Family stated that I.B. is not a suspect?

      Our only source that says that IB is a POI is the man who put up the videos accusing IB of being the killer. This fellow has quite a vested interest in his theory and alone is not a reliable source. Sure, he may be correct, but we need other sources to corroborate his various accusations.

      So no one knows if LE considers him a POI or not.

      Has the Suspect DNA been identified to an individual?

      The guy who puts up the IB videos says the DNA has come back and it is IB. Once again though he is the only source of that information and until we get secondary sources, we cannot place faith in this.

      A much stronger rumor, corroborated several times already, is that the DNA is back but there is no match to any known person. The latest rumor is that there are TWO sets of DNA back from presumably TWO killers, but there is no match for either one of them.

      Who specifically was the individual whom discovered the victims?

      This was Ivan Brumbaugh.

      When will the FBI profile be released that was announced to be
      in the process of producing on March 8, 2017?

      No one knows.

      Why did outside law enforcement leave after the March 13th press conference?

      They did not leave. There are still hundreds of people working on the case every day. The FBI is very much still working the case. No one knows. The guy fingering IB says they left two days after his IB tip, implying that that sealed the case. But we do not know. Someone else said they left two days after the DNA came back.

      Deer Creek is never 6 foot deep unless their has been a large amount of rainfall which does put the creek at 6′ approx 2 – 3 times a year.

      There is a recent video of a sleuth on the case trying to cross the creek. I do not know how tall he is. At some when crossing the creek, it is 6 feet deep and I guess he is barely above water if at all.

      – Barns in the area are not abandon. Even collapsed barns are watched by the owner as most intend to sell the aged beams and lumber. People with farming knowledge can expand on this.

      We believe the Mears barn is currently in use to store hay.

      – Feb 13 was exceptionally warm weather and most emerged out into their yards and property, although the 5 mile trip in a circle from under the north side of the bridge to Mears’ barn is possible. It would not have been possible without a few Howdy neighbor waves of the arm.

      Not sure what to say here.

      The local aspect of this is endless I will end this part by simply saying.

      The Mears’ Barn is not the kill site it’s not likely anyone local would even give this 2 seconds of thought to such a scenario.

      However respectfully Rob is firm on this being the kill site as his source is LE. This should make it rather easy to get answers the questions I listed above.

      My opinion is:

      Does LE leak information to a person who they know is going to put it on a website. Of course not. Would LE leak false information to keep sleuths and others from interfering with an investigation. Yes of course. Would they leak false information waiting and monitoring for someone to correct it with true information. Yes of course.

      Actually my source is not LE. My source is from my investigator on the ground who spoke with Mears family members and asked them if the barn was the kill site of the girls. Based on the results of this conversation, I am certain that the barn is the kill site. Further, when my investigator was there, he said the barn was already becoming sort of a local tourist attraction. Several people pulled over to look at it when he was there. The theory that the Mears barn was the kill site was vehemently supported on the site here by a commenter with good LE connections.

      So your theory is false unless the Mears family is in on putting out the disinformation about the barn being the kill site.

      I also believe that this commenter EJ is the person who made the videos accusing Brumbaugh. I do not much like Brumbaugh at all as a suspect a the moment.

  36. Anna

    So the barn was scrubbed clean and that’s the photo we see? Also, why no official autopsy reports? Aren’t those a matter of public record? They can’t possibly keep cause of death under wraps until the end of time, can they?

    Robert- wish there was a way to send you some funds without the on-line site. Not all of us use credit cards/bank cards!

    • Thank you so much Anna. There are indeed other ways to send me money which of course I badly need. Email for information on how to do this. I do not want to talk about it on the site to keep the payment methods secure.

      Also, why no official autopsy reports? Aren’t those a matter of public record? They can’t possibly keep cause of death under wraps until the end of time, can they?

      They were ordered sealed by the court soon after the crime. I have a record of that document.

      • Mer


        I think the great benefit from your work on this blog is that it does give people some hope. LE has not revealed anything, and that is necessary for their investigation.
        People are reading and posting because it makes them feel like some progress can be made. As you said, these crimes often go unsolved. The readers and posters here just want to see justice.
        A little over 100 years ago in Delphi, a young woman was raped and murdered. I think she was a teacher, or a librarian, or something like that. They arrested a suspect and he was lynched. I believe he was hanged by a mob maybe even in the city limits. I’ve seen a photo of his body hanging from a tree. Crimes like these make people furious.

        We all just want it solved, and nobody wants to drag anyone’s name through the mud. I apologize to IB if anything I have said has affected him or his standing. I think he probably is agentle soul

    • Mer

      The autopsy records have been sealed by a court order. They contain information vital to the investigation and any possible trial.

      LE has not identified any structure as a crime scene. They really haven’t revealed anything. Most if not all of the information we are discussing is based on rumors. The barn we have been talking about is suggested only because it is so close to the eventual dump site.

      I agree that any information supposedly from LE could be deliberate misinformation

      IB is a very unlikely suspect. He is rumored to be the searcher who found the bodies, and some DNAeas recovered that matched his. This also is a rumor, I believe, and not from LE.

  37. ej

    Edit to my previous comment.
    To those with LE contacts.
    Where can we currently view a roadside electronic billboard?

  38. Great job, Robert. This is an interesting read on this case. One thing I don’t understand is why so many are locked in to the “it HAS to be a local guy” theory. I do a lot of traveling in my government job, and have relatives in the construction industry who do likewise. These jobs sometimes put guys in the same location for months at a time, or spending repeated periods of time in the same location over the course of many months or even several years. Such a situation will result in an individual becoming very familiar with the area, and particularly so in the case of a hiker/fisher/hunter who would, of necessity, focus his activities on a relatively small number of locations suitable for engaging in these activities. With the extensive construction that has been ongoing throughout Indiana on I-69 the past several years, I’d imagine there are quite a number of individuals who fit this profile. Just my two cents.

    • Kim

      Kelswhit77. Excellent question on why local? If the girls were killed onsite ant there were Libby’s cellphone wasn’t pinging around town as they were driven to an outbuilding before being dumped on RLs property then the probability of local would be reduced. However, the ability to find and park a vehicle on the obscure bridge service trail and the choice of dumping bodies at RLs place points to intimate knowledge of the local area.

      Also, as a middle aged person myself when I saw BridgeWimps YouTube video of that Monon bridge crossing and Mer gave his personal experience of making it 40ft it seems like a middle aged person would not choose that venue to entrap, chase and abduct/kill a human prey. By middle age most people don’t have quite the balance and coordination as when in their teens (like the girls). This killer had to have the confidence he could pursue his victim across that bridge and catch up with them at some point on other side. It seems a person who had played around that structure earlier in their life would have that confidence.

      Finally, regarding IB. We will have to leave that to LE and assume they are able to do their job. If it is an incorrect hypothesis then some apologies will likely be owed. If I were the first to find those bodies (and specifically if I were alone and had touched them) then I would expect such scrutiny. If innocent, I would know that justice would play out and I know that I would be glad killer(s) were found and move on. The sooner LE makes the proper arrest(s) the better for everyone.

      • Kim, as I mentioned, a non-local working in the same area for months or even years will, over that time, become just as familiar with some locales as the ‘natives.’ Also, I have a heights phobia, so I’d likely wimp out on the bridge crossing, but someone who does not have that issue would be comfortable crossing it regardless of their age. And one thing seems certain from the photos: if you walk toward someone from the near end of the bridge to the far end, it appears you have them pretty much captive.

      • eric alter

        At some point LE will need to clear him or arrest him.
        There is not 200 police in Delphi working this case anymore. The FBI is long gone and were brought in under the assumption of a serial killer involving more than one state. Even the Authorities said they downsized to a couple dozen.
        The media doesn’t cover the case anymore because they know more. And are not going to waste resources on the meaningless news. Yes there are a couple news outlets that pick up those stories.
        That National Man Hunt is over. They told everyone this on March 13th.
        There are no electronic Billboards on this case left anywhere.
        LE is not going to run to a mic every week and give people that weeks facts check.
        As you mentioned LE has this.
        The other you mentioned at any time us free to publicly debunk himself on the bridge or file cease and desist orders which would be the first step in a lawsuit. Major problem there is if he goes that route heads turn to LE and say is it him or not? Bigger problem is they ask who it was, someone told them and showed them why and they ran with it. Meaning they can shut down a false ID on him but they don’t.

        • Dlux

          I would be very surprised is Eugene Lewellen gets a dime for turning in IB – if IB is the killer, which I highly doubt – nor does he deserve any money. Why would telling LE that the person responsible is a person they have already questioned, since he discovered the bodies? Do you think a you tube video of his voice and his image is what flipped the switch for the police? No way. If its that easy I will wait until someone is arrested and then make a video of them walking into the police station in handcuffs and turn over to LE. This is what is preposterous about this whole thing. Hey coppers, I know whodunnit…it’s someone you have already questioned, listened too, swabbed for DNA, probed extensively, and presumably cleared…. where’s muh cash? This whole thing is crap. No way its IB and no way Eugene gets a penny. This is so obviously theater from Eugene in hopes for a golden parachute…

        • eric alter

          Eugene Lewellen is a confidential informant in Logansport Indiana. Lmao
          Your right the arrest will have a lot of people eating sh#t yourself included.

        • Dlux

          I will be the first to admit my mistake if he is the guy. End of the day, I want a sociopathic murderer off the street whether I am wrong, right, or in between. This is not about my ego and shouldn’t be about anyone’s at all, I just want the killers caught and Ivan doesn’t make sense to me.

          That said, I am not from Delphi nor do I know the man. He just seemed a little too dainty and feathery to me.

        • Is Eugene Lewellen EJ or Eric Alter? Is Eric Alter Eugene Lewellen or EJ? Is EJ Eugene Lewellen or Eric Alter?

        • Lotus

          Eric Alter is the name of a real person from Delphi with a criminal record. Not sure who is posting here under what names.

        • eric alter

          Are you in love with me? I went to prison from Delphi on April 2, 2008. I got my 4th OWI there and was on probation for smashing my kids mother’s face into my floor at my house at the Logansport Golf Club where I was an A player for the Clubs corporate golf league team.
          Not a too pretty of a situation. She married a convicted child molester 17 days after she met him online. Soon after there was an issue with one of my kids.
          But anyhow I’m a felon and yep I have a criminal record.
          I’ve been married 3 times. Got an ex in Lafayette.
          After I got out of prison I bounced back, stayed off the booze bought a home in Michigan and paid it off.
          I have a Facebook page of the Logansport Golf Club and a Group called Fishing Freaks.
          I’m a Fisherman. I know the Wabash River well around Delphi and Deer Creek. I never fished the creek behind Logan’s although when the river and creek have been up the falls upstream from Logan’s have been tempting.
          Did I drop my fishing pole and run up top and kill two people or am I the Killer or suspect #2?
          Call the Carrol County Sheriff’s Department, FBI and ask them. Or better yet just turn me in on the tipline.
          Take some pics of me off Facebook and some audio and convince yourself it’s me. Like everyone did with Logan.
          Stalk away.

        • Lotus

          well damn, isn’t that what you did with IB? Make a dopey Youtube video claiming he has to be the killer? No one did the same to you.

        • eric alter

          That’s because I don’t resemble or sound like the person on the Bridge, I’m not left handed, the crime scene isn’t in my neighborhood, Indiana has my DNA and I live in Michigan.
          You can’t section check my face and get a 100% match, or match voices.
          If you feel so strongly about him. I suggest calling the police there or FBI and asking them to clear him publicly.
          It really shouldn’t​ be an issue should it?
          Didn’t they clear RL and a couple others?
          I got bad news for all the Internet Detectives.
          It’s over, they have their Suspects.
          Your more than welcome to screw with me all you want, stalk me, contact everyone I know. Or keep excitedly beefing up a rumor of raping little girls. I could careless, makes absolutely no difference to me.

        • Dlux


          Are you saying Ivan is Amish, German Baptist, or Mennonite? You have mentioned all 3. Or is someone he knows or you know that is, somehow connected to this case? Thanks.

        • Lotus

          QUOTE: “Your more than welcome to screw with me all you want, stalk me, contact everyone I know. Or keep excitedly beefing up a rumor of raping little girls. I could careless, makes absolutely no difference to me.”

          WHO DO YOU THINK is doing that to you? I am doing nothing whatever to you, nor do I think anyone here is.

          It is one thing for you to report to the police or tipline who you think is guilty. It is a whole other thing to make videos insisting it is that person –those videos are not even allowed on Youtube. You are violating the Terms of Service.

        • eric alter

          Read the last sentence of my “Quote” you posted.
          Stop wasting my time. Wasn’t it you telling everyone he was an artist and I don’t know everything.
          Call the Carrol County Sheriff’s Department or FBI express your admiration for the poor starving genlte soled artist and have them clear him. Why is that a problem for you?

        • Lotus, you do seem to have more of an attacking style with regards to Eric. So if your intention is to debate, you’re missing the mark.

          Personally why should you (or anyone) be offended if Eric is stating who he thinks the person is. If he’s correct, he’ll eventually be vindicated. If he’s wrong, he’ll probably have legal issues. Either way, it seems you are taking it personally and I don’t understand why a third party person with no vested interest would.

        • eric alter

          This where we get the line of BS about top secret sources in LE and they don’t need to call the police and have him cleared, because their source told them so.
          I’ve heard it all, still makes me laugh though.

        • Dlux

          Eric, other than pic/voice match of Bridge Guy, what makes you think Ivan is the killer? Can you go deeper with your theory? I, and I think we, would love to have a better profile of him. Do you mind sharing?

        • eric alter

          It’s also his walking gate. Listen to what I’m going to tell all of you. I don’t get that part of Indiana’s news here.
          The post were coming in from friends down there.
          The voice stood hairs on my neck because I had heard it before. I looked at the pics and told my girlfriend why in the hell do I think I know this person.
          From time to time I would see another post and look at it and dismiss it.
          On March 10th I got out of bed and I’m smoking a cigarette drinking coffee not even thinking about it and it hits me. I yell to my girlfriend friend and tell her I remembered who I thought had a voice like that and he lives right there on 300 as far as knew then.
          We look at some pics on FB, I copy them. Then I googled him and found 3 news segments from WLFI in Lafayette where he is talking.
          I spent all day and some of the night expanding section checking in a grid, comparing voices and so on.
          * I was determined to find something that did not match! Because I didn’t want it to be him.
          It progressively got worse. After noticing the pistol and it being a lefthanded draw. I didn’t know what to do.
          There is not one single thing from photo to photo that doesn’t match, the voice matched and then the left handed situation.
          I ran the stats on left handed and right handed. Only 10% are left handed.
          The odds of someone standing on that bridge that fit the photos and audio of someone who lived right there are very slim, both being left handed are much much slimmer.
          I looked at my girlfriend and said what do I do. She said call the police now!
          Which I did.
          Then I passed the material to others that had worked with him for years like myself. Everyone agreed and still does.
          I’m sorry to say this I truly am.
          That’s him in the bridge suspect photos and audio. I don’t know what he did or if he even did anything. Nonetheless it’s him.
          There were issues with him. He couldn’t get along with people hardly at all.
          He would stab other supervisors in the back. On more than one occasion Supervisors his age and even tempered we’re actually going to fight him. It was crazy stuff with him.
          He has a horrible temper. When he gets pissed he gets read and talks calm and monotone.
          He never would forget he had it in for someone either. If he went home with an issue over someone he walked right back in and picked up where he left off.
          His son committed suicide for some reason. The word was he got blamed because of the way he treated the kid?
          JC online has a 2012 story of his house burning to the ground, while he was gone. However his wife who was divorcing him but still lived there barely escaped after she woke up.

        • Dlux

          Wow – thanks Eric. Ok, can you share the following:

          Have you drawn a connection to Abby possibly being pregnant and suspect #2? If so, please share.
          Are you sure about recovering the phone in the stone quarry? A couple of familiar faces live close to that quarry.
          Tell us a little more about Ivan and what you know – this needs all put together for us.


        • Kim

          Mr Alters not a suspect in my book. Volatile, yes, speaks his mind among other things, yes but the Killer is likely a more socially isolated individual. Likely not the type to carry on too adept or spirited a conversation.

          Robert, can you please fish my other post postulating motive out of your spam folder and post? It might be useful insight.

        • Lotus

          to vikerii: There has been no attacking going on, only in your imagination. Eric has been asked by the people he is defaming to stop posting these extreme accusations about them. Put yourself in their shoes — would you want someone falsely accusing you of a horrible crime on the internet. Maybe instead of lying about me and attacking me, you should look at the bad actions you are supporting. DO NOT post any comments aimed at me again, thanks. I do not need your BS and lying.

        • eric alter

          No one has ask me anything of the sort.
          Besides, no one knows who the hell you are?
          Maybe you can enlighten us.

        • Mer

          Nice work, Eric!

    • Lotus

      I personally think the killer has strong ties to the Delphi area because he is dressed in what appears to be almost a uniform for men from the area. He also has a voice style that seems to be cultivated in older men in that general area. Other major factors are that he was willing to walk on the bridge and he knew the layout of the land well enough that he was able to commit this crime without being seen. He also may have known RL’s patterns of activity well enough to know that RL was gone that day. Of course, the killer could be from anywhere and of a predatory nature.

      • VGLante

        There is a rumor here in town that the girls were taken by car out of town to Lafayette during the assault eventually ending up back near the trail. There was a teenage bra and small purse found on bicycle bridge road (a back road to Lafayette, near the first POI’s home and RL’s son’s house) This rumor as well as the barn theory seem strange to me…why would the person(s) return to the girls to most obvious place to be found and caught?

        I do know personally that multiple people who live near the high bridge early in the investigation were questioned about having out buildings that were searched, their known guns were documented-photographed, and they were swabbed for DNA. These things are facts first hand. Therefore, there was an outbuilding involved, there was a gun, and they have DNA.

        As far as a local conspiracy, there is no cover up and the cops are not out to get anyone. I personally know these people…they are trying to do their job in the best way they know how and have been swarmed with a barrage of details in a very sensitive case that no one has experienced before. This is not NYC or Miami. The only ones making those accusations are people with their own axe to grind or idiots seeking attention or drama.

        In regards to RL, I would say that he is being held for 2 main reasons: 1) he is too close to situation and may know something and 2) his property was used and the person who used it is likely to return to the scene or could even try to contact Ron. They have eliminated that factor and have done that legally, regardless the harshness of the penalty for the crime. Early on RL may have actually been in some danger, although I doubt this town would act out without verified evidence accusing him or anyone else of the crime. I do not think Ron did this, but the person who did is guaranteed to know him.

        Also, at the time of the search of RL’s property, please remember that they took his truck away on a hauler. That could have been for the probation violation, but more than likely there is at least evidence that a vehicle was used in this crime.

        The person who did this crime is local…there is know way to happen onto this area and pull off a crime such as this using multiple properties with different owners and the secret nuances of who does what when. If indeed a vehicle was used, returning to the place of the crime to dispose of the bodies is an act of comfort, not necisarrily a wise move. It is in fact assign.

        Think about this… the girls were off school the day of 2/13, my kids were too for a teacher in service day. Who would have known this and how did they set up the perfect crime, taking weather into consideration and a normally non active trail in February mid-day? This person knew the girls were out of school and planned this crime within a short time frame due to the unseasonable weather. If he stalked the girls on the computer…LE knows, it’s the easiest way track a person these days. He most likely knew the girls and knew they would be there.

        I think they are sitting on the answers to this crime and for a good reason. They know more than we do and are preparing for the take down,…I’m guessing they have even secured the scenario to avoid losses in this case. They are not morons or idiots and I am sure this has all been very traumatic for LE – this kind of thing does not happen around here. They are close…I guarantee. Imho

        • Lotus

          Taken to Lafayette and brought back? Is this a new rumor? Do you know what it is based on? Why Lafayette? Is there more to the rumor?

        • IF this case turns out to be connected to the Evansdale, Iowa case, I would almost guarantee it is not a ‘local.’ Local meaning full-time resident.

        • Lotus

          Local vs Non-local: If a person has spent a significant amount of time there that they know the ins and outs of the hiking trail and nearby properties, that is local. A person can be considered a “local” in numerous places, even in different states and different nations.

        • Barbara Miller

          Eric You are so full of shit….All you’re doing is running you;re mouth. If EVERYTHING you’re saying is true, why would you repeat ANYTHING until there was an arrest? Stop this nonsense now, you are not LE. You are amongst the rest of us and you know nothing

      • eric alter

        Thanks it nice to see someone​ thinking things out. If a serial killer casesd the place out he would have chose hunt elsewhere.
        RL was HTV. That a mandatory 4 years do 2. The judge can suspend time. But in most cases the individual has had time suspended and alternative sentencing on their way to becomeing a Habitual Traffic Offender. When they get caught after the HTV status has been given the usually get the hammer. Delphi/Carroll County sentence people to Indiana Department of Corrections like prison is their county jail. The least I have seen is 52 days. Yes that court house sentenced someone to 52 days in the Indiana prison system. Why because the moment the judge says Department of Corrections Sentence the state has to pay the county jail to hold them. True story.
        Having said this obviously RL took a risk and still would drive. Ron would be one like most others to say F them. He did not casually drive away from his house on a regular basis. I myself have figured someone knew he would be gone also.
        These guys are older and all know each other. The one I mentioned May plow fields and harvest for Mears on the side. As odd as it may sound to those not from there, they may have had free run over each other’s property.
        Like RL parking in Mears’ barn if it was empty. If someone was seen who didn’t belong they would expect each other to intervene and at least call the law.
        I figure someone close knew RL’s schedule also.

  39. A

    George Webb has a very different take on these murderers and the obvious cover up. Check out his YouTube channel, he’s a pro

    • asemko04

      I was in disbelief when George tied this case to what he did, but as usual it can make sense – the nearby “training” camp, initiations, and if one of the girls was missing fingers due to double garroting, the handler, the lack of info from police such as autopsy. For anyone else who wants to check it out I think he mentions it in earlier videos but I think this is where he starts really delving into it, then in next few videos he goes on site to the abduction scene, etc., https://youtu.be/oBRFTi33-nA

      • Mer

        I’ve never heard it said that Libby had injuries to her fingers. That would have been noticed at her funeral, assuming her hands were not covered. I think the George Webb videos are worthless. In the first one I saw, I think he was north of Deer Creek and thought he was at the abduction site.

  40. Wendy

    New poster here, but I have been following (and will donate!). I appreciate the thought and insight that comes through in these comments, and hope someone can answer a question that has been nagging at me. When I look at the barn, which seems wide open, I wonder why no one (RL?) observed a light shining that night. It’s hard to imagine that this crime was committed entirely in the dark, but a barn that typically was used only to store hay would probably attract attention if it were illuminated at night. It seems that even a strong flashlight beam may have been visible from outside. Does anyone who has been to the barn have any thoughts about this?

  41. soccerdanofluv

    White Pages says that Ron Logan (RL) had a previous address in Logansport. Cutting to the chase, I wonder if RL had any connection to the state mental facility in Logansport. Maybe RL was in a substance abuse or domestic violence program. There are a bunch of registered sex offenders at Logansport State Hospital. Maybe RL struck up relationships with persons capable of sexual murder. They could have attended AA or NA meetings together. RL maybe even hired some of these unsavory characters to do day labor at his farm in Delphi. In which case they would have had opportunity to learn the area.

    • Lotus

      What I have noticed is that most men who are involved a lot with alcohol or with bad driving usually have a friends or acquaintances who are pretty unsavory characters. Maybe they do meet them at AA or NA or whatever. What I have also noticed is that such people will keep coming around sporadically, for years on end, often looking for money or food or a small job for money. If RL had such people in his life, it is possible one of them came around that day and since RL was not home that day, spent the day walking about.

      Even squeaky clean people sometimes have such people coming around. For example, the man that kidnapped Elizabeth Smart through her bedroom window was someone her parents had hired a few times to fix things or do chores outside their home. There have been quite a few other incidents where someone who had been hired to do odd jobs comes back and commits terrible crimes against those who hired them.

  42. Lotus

    Why don’t you post a big, very public link to a WePay up top on this blog where it is noticeable? Your site is ranking very high in Google searches about Delphi and people who are readers only might be able to contribute money.

  43. Mer

    One thing I noticed several weeks ago, but never posted about, is that RL was placed on 2 years probation in October of 2014. Shouldn’t his probation have ended in October of 2016?

    • Lotus

      Maybe he has differences offenses and different cases. It sounds like he was on some sort of habitual bad driver list. It also sounds like he was on some sort of list where he was not supposed to drink alcohol. He was arrested for driving, for being seen in a bar drinking on a different date than the driving, and for lying to police. I think the police and prosecutor made a huge deal of this and since he was not drinking and driving, he should have been left alone. Two years in prison for a 77 year old man? This is cruel.

      • Dlux

        I agree Lotus. A strong source tells me more than a few influential people in Delphi really had it in for Ronnie boy. The whole situation with him is just disheartening as a lot of valuable time and resources were wasted on him. He should be home right now…

        • eric alter

          Besides his property RL had an impressive and valuable gun collection. That was of interest to certain individuals with the capability of confiscating it. Delphi wallows in “invisible depression”. Authorities Cannibalize their citizens for revenue. Probation for individuals there winds up lasting for years on meaningless violations.

        • VGLante

          Those are some pretty strong allegations. I find them degrading to our community and to the men and women who give there lives to serve others. Narcissism is the first word that comes to mind when I read these kinds of comments.

  44. eric alter

    Rob’s Barn Theory. 4 some reason seems off the wall enough to take a close look at.
    Over looking the obvious on this case in my opinion has been colossal.
    I’m not comfortable with drive situation from under bridge and around.
    Is there another way maybe he or they could have got them to that barn?
    When did the barn become empty, that’s very important.
    It could mean someone very local, with good knowledge of the barn and the barn may have had materials or equipment in it on the day of.

    • Dlux

      Do we have two people under the name Eric Alter posting comments?

      • Lotus

        I wondered the same thing.

      • VGLante

        Seems like…2 different personalities.

        • eric alter

          Why don’t ya just give up your Bullshit seriously.

        • Kim

          I have to agree with Eric here; I don’t like to see commentors singled out, it kills discussions!

        • eric alter

          They have stalked me from day one. It doesn’t take long before they move on. My main issue issue I’m tired of dealing with the Idiots.
          I live in Edwardsburg Michigan, I’m easy to find.

        • Kim

          Also, based on what I saw when getting my GSD, Eric needs to be careful. Also, who gives a rip if someone uses an alias; I think whoever has submitted any credible tips in this case should be recommended to do so and also be very careful in public comments. For safety’s sake until an arrest is made in this case.

        • eric alter

          Him and his girlfriend can talk all the shit they want. LE and others have already made plan B.

        • eric alter

          Also, those are some strong words for your community unfortunately that’s the words of the majority for the community. Save your Bullshit for the outsiders.
          For the Outsiders, there is an endless list of Bullshit with Delphi. That’s​ why Delphi withers away more every year and they are continually beginning for money.
          How many know that Delphi’s existence depends merly on the Japanese?
          Yep he knows this. For who that don’t. Factories that were in Delphi closed up or left. The country Highway that ran through there, that was their Honey Road for ticket revenue. Moved, a knew Highway was built going around Delphi, which unfortunately for Delphi it gets 1200 IPC employees to work and traffic from Lafayette and Fort Wayne to their destinations. In stead of having to drive through the toll booth known as Delphi. 99% of all the traffic on the Highway wanted nothing to do with Delphi. Now as I said that 99% percent only has to go through the county around Delphi not through it. The Sheriff’s Department can’t justify camping out on the new highway when they have a county to patrol. Ironically Delphi city police dip out there and try to shake the tree. However this has been an issue with this Highway in other parts of Indiana. Eventually the people that use the Highway from abroad make complaints in Indianapolis a about gauntlets of police on the highway, none of which are Indiana State Police. Indianapolis shuts the local un athorized tax booths down.
          The Japanese own IPC a large portion of their product is shipped to Japan as IPC even packages it in Japanese packaging.
          The Japanese are sick of being taxed by Carrol County. All the people in the local gov have Japanese something or other as they Koddle the Japanese in person when the come to Delphi.
          Fortunately Japanese and Orientals value their pork products and can not produce such a product on a large scale in Japan.
          Bottom line is they pay to keep Delphi afloat.
          Packing houses buy Fire trucks, and keep the local municipal staples going, along with paying high taxes and lining pockets.
          If IPC were to become owned by an American pork producer Delphi would become deprived​ of some of the assets extended from the Japanese.
          Delphi has issues, a good indicator. It’s proximity to Lafayette, which is even easier to access because of the new highway.
          Housing and property in Carrol County is far cheaper than Lafayette which is only 15 minutes away and less.
          Their population decreases and fluctuates with Hispanics.
          Delphi is not the community the people running it portray, they are or were playing they sympathy card on America. When the bridge suspect was discovered to be local. This also put an end to some opportunities that were being embraced.
          Bottom line is most no one will by property or build a home there. Businesses won’t go there and because of they way Delphi has been for decades they don’t get any help, ie Monon Bridge renovation.
          People in Indiana don’t care for Delphi so they just avoid and ignore them.
          For a brief second they got a different taste, unfortunately now they have to deal with it being one of their own. Which puts a major damper on that sympathy card to America.

        • Kim

          Eric, you’re cracking me up big time with your descriptions of life in Delphi!! Priceless. :-). 🙂

        • Kim

          Like a modern day version of Upton Sinclair’s “The Jungle”!! You are making me want to read that, but I think you could update it nicely, also exposing unsavory symbiotic relationships involving officials.

    • Sun

      Well whoever brought up the “Howdy Wave”, that is a legitimate concern. If the Unsub is a rural local he’d know it. Folks closer to town tend to take less notice of a vehicle that doesn’t usually drive on their particular road. It seems counterintuitive, but if the girls were in the trunk he might might more safely head back to US 25 and pick up W 300 N (which goes under US 25). Looks like he’d only pass one or two actual homesteads east of US 25 (and of course Ron wasn’t home). And there is what looks like a grain transfer/light industrial area there so non-residential traffic shouldn’t be unusual. Would that work?

    • Mer

      The barn theory was made with the idea that a non local person did the crime. The barn appears to be an orphan. There is no house beside it. It does mostly appear deserted, but it is used to store hay.
      An outsider could have viewed the barn as a remote location. A local might think the same thing.
      From the abduction to the barn is literally a series of left hand turns, each at the first crossroad you come to.
      It’s only a theory. Do you have a better site in mind?

    • Mer

      If they left the park it was in a vehicle.
      They could have been driven anywhere
      If they were taken an hour away I don’t think they would have been returned.

      This is a simple crime. Abduction. Short drive to a somewhat secure location. Quick journey to a dump site.

      • eric alter

        I totally agree and have tought perhaps the victims were hiden into the early morning and there was a foiled attempt to remove them and discard elsewhere.
        The flipside could be they wanted them found.
        I personally don’t think this will be sexual although there may have been an attempt to make it seem as if that had happened.
        Obviously a perp making it back onto the scene with such opportunity could present all kinds of possible options.

        • Mer

          What do you mean by a foiled attempt to remove them?
          What do you think is the killer”s motivation?

        • Liar Liar

          Eric i see your video was deleted!
          Spewing out trash!! I heard you have a nice lawsuit waiting

        • eric alter

          Sounds like the girlfriend here. The videos have been made private. You may want to express your thoughts to the folks in Delphi. Sounds like their getting ready to put some bullets between a couple sets of eyes.

    • Mer

      Eric, if the killer(s) attempted to cover the bodies with leaves, it was because they knew for certain that the dump site area had been searched.
      They did not know that thermal imaging had been used on the area.
      They were trying to create the impression that the bodies were overlooked in the search. I think they may have been in a good position to see that RL’s woods had been searched. They witnessed the search. They were not in the woods or the trail area.

      • Lotus

        Thermal imaging only works to detect live people, not dead bodies. For obvious reasons.

        Many killers bury bodies in shallow graves or cover them with leaves or other debris. This is a natural instinct to cover or bury, or may be to hide the body. It works, since even slightly buried bodies are often overlooked. It can also stem from shame, of wanting to hide what was done. Most killers do try to hide the bodies of their victims and it appears to be a natural instinct.

        • Mer

          Thermal imaging detects heat. The bodies would have been warmer than the surroundings

        • Lotus

          Please feel free to contact thermal imaging companies or to read manuals online. Dead bodies immediately start getting cold. That process is speeded up when in contact with the ground, which absorbs the heat quickly.

      • eric alter

        Him and his girlfriend know the story. All I know is that it’s him on that Bridge.

        • Lotus

          I think if it were him, he would have been arrested by now. It has been said he has a rock solid alibi. It has been several months now. The police have had plenty enough time to explore if they think it was him or not. If they thought at all it was him, they would have done a search of his home, and we have not heard of any such search.

          Even if you believe it is him, it is wrong to post a video saying it is him, unless and until he is charged with the crime. You can be sued and it sounds like they plan to sue you. They will win easily because it is defamation per se. If you do not want to lose everything you have,you should remove your postings and videos.

        • Mer


          They must have asked him about his whereabouts and he provided an alibi.
          I would love to know what that alibi is.

        • Lotus

          It was a Monday early afternoon. Probably at his job?

        • Mer

          I’m not an attorney, but I think that if someone sues Eric for defamation, they will have to prove in court beyond a 50% chance that they are not BG.
          They would have to testify and be questioned by Eric’s attorney. They would have to explain where they were, defend their alibi. Other people who may be corroborating any alibi would have to be questioned. It could be an interesting bit of testimony.
          All Eric has said is that a person he knows well looks and sounds like BG. He does.
          The person that EA refers to does have a distinctive walk. It’s a limp of some kind.

        • eric alter

          There’s not an attorney that would take him into such a situation. I’m not sure it would even be Legal with an ongoing investigation. But I can promise that they will not allow him to file such a suit unless they clear him, and it’s my understanding that’s not going to happen.
          Some of which you mentioned. The videos have been down for awhile and if Googled, It seems that Robert is the only person that is using his name? I don’t recall his name being on YouTube so I’m not Rob’s source.
          There is a ton of stuff I can’t say. But if one was to go back a watch the March 13th press conference. There was mention of FBI agents working in the basement at Quantico along with it likely they had talked to the killer or killers.
          What’s going on now I really don’t know. My guess is they have to get a lot of stuff together first. Cell phone records you name it.
          Things took a twist LE wasn’t expecting. I’m sure they are doing a good job with whatever they got going on. I just hope no one else gets hurt. Hopefully they are keeping eye’s on whatever.

        • Kim

          I do think that you may have cracked the case Eric. I admit that it gives me hope to think so.

          But now this is in the hands of LE, let’s hope that they can do something definitive with the evidence that Libby and Abby paid so great a price to leave. P.S. I hope you can get some rest now, I’m sure this has been very disturbing for you as a parent and former member of that community also. This should all work out in time . . .

        • eric alter

          Thanks well appreciated if it’s true. No more victims and Justice is the goal. As far as a reward I’m pretty sure no one will get it if it’s a local person.
          I got a tile project going in my house at night. So my mind wallows in this while I’m working. Then I let out when I take a brake. I’ll try to stay out of it. It’s going to get more ugly with the locals before it gets better.

        • Lotus

          Mer, Nope. Calling a person a criminal is defamation per se because the harm is inherent. Since it is Eric making the defamatory statements, it would be up to him to prove that his statements are “true.” The plaintiff need not prove anything to counter his defamation. Eric could use “truth” as his defense and then Eric would have to prove that the things Eric has said are factually true, which of course Eric cannot do.

          On the other hand, people can feel very free to make reports to the police, to the tipline, to the hotline — and they cannot ever be sued for making those reports, and the reports will be held confidential.

          If a person has been arrested, it is not defamation to say they have been arrested. If a person is being called a “suspect” by the police, then it is not defamation to say that the police are calling the person a suspect. If a person is convicted of a crime, then it is not defamation to say they committed the crime — that is the general rule. Once the person is convicted, it is considered “fact” that they committed the crime. Of course, while a conviction is a legal fact of guilty, many times, it is not a real life fact of guilt, since many people are falsely convicted and many more are forced to take plea deals.

          As for the man in question, police have not called him a suspect, he has not been arrested. As far as we know, he has not been the subject of a search warrant. As far as we know factually, all he is is a man who helped with the search and rumor is he found the bodies and further rumor is that there was his contact DNA present on the body(ies), which is a very common thing that happens.

          Robert (the blog owner here) , on the other hand, is protected from defamation claims under the Communications Decency Act Section 230, the Good Samaritan Clause, which gives an internet service provider immunity from tort claims committed by third party users.

          Thank you for asking.

        • Sun

          We don’t want this forum derailed, but it seems on-topic to discuss a commenter sharing information who is local. Eric said he has reluctantly reported this individual. If he’s right, and the reason the person hasn’t been arrested relates to LE – needing more evidence, tightening up the case, etc – Eric is twisting in the wind. His life could be in danger. I thought he explained why he continues talking: they know who he is so it’s either this, or try to hide.

          For what it’s worth, my work involves managing some folks who can be rough around the edges. Some are liars. Some of the most honest guys do have life issues. On the face, they are hard to tell apart. To me Eric speaks like the latter.

      • eric alter

        At this point there is nothing to say that the Killer or killers weren’t the searcherd who cleard the Bodies.
        I would say that the thermo imiaging is probably a lie.
        The cops went home because it got “dark” the sheriff told the parents there kids wondered off to the big city and told the public at midnight there was no reason for concern.
        That doesn’t sound like a situation that is going to put a state police chopper in the air. Had TI had found something they would have had to call cops that called if a search because it got dark.
        Until the state police enter into this case I would anticipate everything CCSD said is a lie. That’s what they do best.

        • Mer

          My guess is they scanned the area with a nightscope. The sheriff dept probably has a rifle with a nightscope attached to it and that search was performed from the ground. It’s a large area with a lot of trees in the way.

        • Kim

          That’s almost unbelievable… LE told parents the girls probably headed into the nearby town…. then they couldn’t have accessed Libby’s cloud account and seen the pic of BG at that point.

        • eric alter

          That’s exactly what the Sheriff told them. There is a story of him talking all about it. Look online at the local stations. Or YouTube, I think a lot of the smaller stuff never makes it down the chain. Combined with stuff that has may not get retracted by LE in a reasonable amount of time.

      • Jordan Cavanaugh

        Only one of the girls was covered.

  45. eric alter

    Below is a copy and paste to a reply I left for a Delphi Resident. The Delphi Resident I knew fished beside me, and we showed each other pictures of our kids, their the people that make up Delphi and are thankful that this description of Delphi has ears.

    Another warned that I need to be careful because of his purchase of a dog from Amish by Fort Wayne and what he saw. I do appreciate the tip. I grew up with them. I’m not one or Mennonite and do not have any ties other than Horses, horse tackle and Amish friends back in my past.

    I’m hip to the Amish, and I will say their Good people, but their lifestyle can be mean and not pretty at times. They don’t seem concerned much about concealing it. You just have to be around to witness it. Which means you’re going to need to be hanging out on the farm for whatever reason, as the guy mentioned who bought the dog. Oddly how many know that Amish are puppy millers?

    Had I made the tip I made to the FBI and the email tipline from where I used to live, my place would have been on the new being shook down like the others. Hence the news stories of Delphi citizens in fear of giving a tip. Also those who have known Amish after business hours and the auctions​ are over know they can be ruthlessly mean. I don’t live in Indiana anymore. Which is why there was no meaningless warrant served on my home.

    I also went public and to faraway news stations with my story in case Amos and Vernon wanted to pay me a visit with those 1911 45’s. By the way Bridge Man’s pouch is a shoulder holstered bag that hangs under whatever​ holster you attach for the firearm. It’s probably family-made and old. There is a vintage one for sale now on eBay.

    Nonetheless, I knew from the day I figured out who was on this bridge that this could deep into German Baptist Freako Land.
    There would be some major explaining to to do if I rope one of Delphi’s Dunkirds at my place in Michigan. However, it would come from a mouth that requires a straw to feed it’s owner. More than likely, before an arrest is made German Baptist Elder will pay someone a visit and instruct suicide. Sounds crazy as Hell, doesn’t it? Maybe this is why this case is as such 😉

    • Sun

      Eric, I may have missed this but in your opinion, what was or could have been the motive of the killer?

    • Mer

      Fascinating post. I can hear that central Indiana accent when I read it.
      You also posted a couple days ago. I’m still trying to figure out the full meaning of that post.
      You have a very resolute opinion about the identity, and no one has disagreed with you on that. Do you have any ideas or opinions on how or where or why? Does this crime surprise you, or do you think it is consistent with his character? You seem to know this person well, has he done anything, ever, to make you think he could do something like this?

      • Kim

        I will take a shot at this. As the woman who picked up her GSD at the farm awhile back (and professor) I think I interact with young people well but I wasn’t expecting the attitude towards women that I saw there. I was looked at with scorn by the young orthodox men, while one older man spoke to me with interest (seemed like a ‘player’), meanwhile the unorthodox men (shunned?) were the ones driving around waving the Reuger.

        The girls would barely make eye contact with me. My perception was that the girls were very tightly controlled and afraid of being seen smiling or speaking to me. They didn’t seem happy or carefree like the boys their age (~10-14) who were talking to me.

        When I heard one of these bridge victims was nearly decapitated this seemed more than a simple rape/abduction but rather involving rage against women/ or actually, young pubescent girls, in this case. The person who did this may be a person who has held in a lot of rage/frustration and cracked (due to his own life circumstances) and struck at a familiar ( and vulnerable) target of his ire.

        Eric has given a description of his individual above as “punishing”, and very critical of young women who don’t act correctly in his view. Whoever did this may have seen these two victims before and specifically disapproved of them, or they may have been simply a present and (in his mind) an appropriate target of his rage that day. Very tragic case of these girls being in the wrong place at wrong time that day, or this guy knew there might be traffic on the trails as VGL said as school was out.

        • eric alter

          I do believe your heading in a direction of several pieces of the puzzle. Probably most important the connection of suspect #2
          I’ve yet too see anyone say that it’s illegal for a 16 year old to have a sexual relationship with a 13 year old in Indiana?
          One thing that has made me wonder in regards to the girls is. Why did they get dismissed for being in Lafayette so quickly?
          I hate to go here, is it possible the girls had been a little more colorful than known to the public?
          If it was known that the 16 year old was having sex with the 13 year old as Rob mentioned there was rumor of a pregnancy. In an unselective enforcement of laws community there should have been a minor charged with a crime.
          Maybe it was in the process? If the parents of the 13 year old are okay with the relationship until she winds up pregnant and charges are threatened. I would imagine there might be some upset adults on the end of the 16 year old?
          Which makes me wonder why that stick was where it was, if true?
          Why would a person out to rape and kill another person go after 2 at once?
          That alone would be a huge risk.
          I believe there is a sp#2 and the girls are the link.

        • Kim

          Eric I think I get what you’re saying but neither BG nor IB look like the type that have 16yo male friends, or befriend young people them much (did you ever observe him being that sort of mentoring/father type?). Also, as one ‘shunned’ by the community wouldn’t a suspect be more of less out of that community and unlikely to feel compelled to act as someone protecting a 16yo? I don’t know…. interesting theory though.

          LE has the autopsy, they should more easily be able to put that aspect together. We don’t know the condition of the bodies. P.S. Get some sleep!! 🙂

        • Hopeful

          In regards to there being legal trouble for a 16 year old having sexual relations with a 13 year old:
          From personal experience, I know that LE (at least in Indiana) will not intervene in such a situation, citing “the Romeo and Juliet clause.”
          I live in a neighboring county.

        • Lotus

          Under Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-42-4-3 – It is a felony to have sex with a child under age 14. If the other person is under age 21, it is Level 3 felony and if the other person is over the age of 21, it is a Level 4 felony. It is also a felony to fondle any child under age 14. Under Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-42-4-6 – It is a felony for anyone over age 18 to solicit (urge, request) anyone under age 14 to engage in any sort of fondling or sexual act. Under Indiana Code Title 35. Criminal Law and Procedure § 35-42-4-9 -Anyone over age 18 who engages in sexual conduct or intercourse with a child under age 14 commits a Level 5 felony.

          The so-called “Romeo and Juliet” provision DOES NOT apply if the child is 13 and the other person is 18, because the age difference is too great. Thus, if what we have heard in this situation is true — a 13 year old and an 18 year old — then the defense would NOT apply. This is the wording on that provision:
          (e) It is a defense to a prosecution under this section if all the following apply:
          (1) The person is not more than four (4) years older than the victim.
          (2) The relationship between the person and the victim was a dating relationship or an ongoing personal relationship.  The term “ongoing personal relationship” does not include a family relationship.
          (3) The crime:
          (A) was not committed by a person who is at least twenty-one (21) years of age;
          (B) was not committed by using or threatening the use of deadly force;
          (C) was not committed while armed with a deadly weapon;
          (D) did not result in serious bodily injury;
          (E) was not facilitated by furnishing the victim, without the victim’s knowledge, with a drug (as defined in IC 16-42-19-2(1)) or a controlled substance (as defined in IC 35-48-1-9) or knowing that the victim was furnished with the drug or controlled substance without the victim’s knowledge;  and
          (F) was not committed by a person having a position of authority or substantial influence over the victim.
          (4) The person has not committed another sex offense (as defined in IC 11-8-8-5.2) (including a delinquent act that would be a sex offense if committed by an adult) against any other person.

        • Now calllllllm down, Nelly! Hold yer horses!

          The boy is 16 and the girl is 13. It’s legal under Romeo and Juliet.

          Your statement that the boy is 18 and the girl is 13 is not correct.

        • Lotus

          If those are the ages — 13 and 16, then you are correct. It would be covered, provided they have an ongoing relationship and they are not family related.

        • (2) The relationship between the person and the victim was a dating relationship or an ongoing personal relationship.  The term “ongoing personal relationship” does not include a family relationship.

          I am not sure that means much of anything.

          Here in California, minors may not be arrested for any sex crime excepting rape, etc. Two minors having sex with each other is just legal in our state. If there is something wrong with it – a teenage boy molesting his little sister, say, then it is referred out to Social Services. No minor in California ever goes down for having sex with another human being, which honestly is the way it ought to be.

        • And teenage brothers and sisters have sex a LOT. At least here in the US. As long as there is no pregnancy, it’s not an issue. It’s generally consensual. Hardly anyone ever goes to jail for this.

          Hell, SISTERS AND SISTERS have a lot of sex in the US. I did a quick and dirty study of pubescent females in the (ages 13-15), and I found that ~7% of them were CURRENTLY having sex with their own teenage sisters. I had ~75 in my sample. I was actually looking for other things, like ages of pubertal stages. Age of pubic hair onset, age of sex drive onset, etc. but I ended up getting a lot of data on masturbation habits of girls that age. ~70% of 13 year old girls were currently masturbating every day! Jesus. Do people realize this is going on?

          I wonder if something is up with these kids. Is this the “early sexualization” people are talking about? Is it all the porn? Anyway these young generations are sexualized as hell very early and they’re probably pretty pornified as well. Not sure what it all means but maybe it is something we should be talking about.

        • eric alter

          Rob I hear what your saying but. Without anything to even suggest sex other than a 16 year old boyfriend. How would you start such a conversation.
          I have wondered what it was that made the Sheriff tell the parents those kids went to Lafayette?

        • Lotus

          oh hell, that is not true.

          It is in fact a misdemeanor for anyone under age 18 to have sex in California, if their sex partner is not more than 3 years older or younger. (((b) Any person who engages in an act of unlawful sexual intercourse with a minor who is not more than three years older or three years younger than the perpetrator, is guilty of a misdemeanor.))

          In California, if any parent of anyone under 18 complains to police that their child is having sex, or if a girl under 18 becomes pregnant, both participants are referred to the D.A. If they are both under 18 and there is not more than a 3 year age difference, in most cases, they will be charged with a misdemeanor, but not placed on the sex offender registry.

          In other words, it is a crime for anyone under age 18 to have sex in California, even with a willing partner who is also under age 18. It gets prosecuted if anyone complains to police (parent, teacher) or if a pregnancy results. The parents of anyone under age 18 can also be charged with failure to supervise, if their child is having sexual relations.

          I knew someone whose job it was to go into court in California with pregnant teen girls, who were being charged with a sex crime misdemeanor for engaging in sex under age 18. In most cases, both they and whoever got them pregnant were charged with crimes, but not put on the sex offender list (unless the partner was over age 21 or a family relative, then they go on the list.)

          In California, overall teen pregnancy rates are dropping (probably at least in part because of these laws) but is still very high among Hispanics, Blacks, and lower income groups.

          If anyone over 21 has sex with anyone under age 16, this is a misdemeanor or felony.

          California law also imposes civil fines of $2000 – $5000 for sex acts with anyone under age 18 by anyone over 21. There is a whole long list of these amounts.

        • Well maybe so, but I have lived in this state all my life and I have never heard of one single minor, male or female, who was arrested for having sex with another minor.

          And I thought I read recently that they were not prosecuting any of this stuff anymore and they were referring any problematic stuff out to Social Services.

          That law is stark raving nuts. Obviously sex between minors ought to be legal. If there age difference is too dramatic, involved Social Services.

          If it is really weird behavior, I dunno, maybe juvie, who knows? But there are not a lot of minor males or boys running around molesting a bunch of little girl strangers. It’s just not happening.

          You can’t even be arrested for child molesting in California unless you are over 16. Only 17 year old minors may be arrested for this crime. The rest is handled by Social Services or there may be some other charge.

        • Lotus

          Since they are minors, it goes to juvenile court and the records and proceedings are not public. I know it happens because a friend was the lawyer hired to represent the girls in the proceedings and his caseload was very full.. Many of them become wards of the state and are put in foster homes that will accept them and their babies. The social services help them get on Medical, WIC, financial assistance. They are also required to be in school. Some are in grades 6-8, and others in high school.

          There is nothing sexy about a pregnant 13 year old.

        • All I have to say is I have lived in this state for 59 years and I have never heard of one such case. I have never known a single minor who was arrested and charged for having sex as a minor, and I have heard about tens of thousands of sex acts by minors and have known thousands of minors who have had sex.

          Haven’t heard of one case yet. I take it it’s not very common.

          I can’t believe this progressive state is so bizarre, backwards, puritanical, sex-hating and reactionary. I guess it’s all the feminists. The feminists run this stupid state and feminists are unbelievably sex-hating, reactionary and puritanical. Feminists are like Victorians when it comes to sex.

        • Lotus

          You probably would not hear of it since you do not do that sort of work. This involves court cases, juvenile / family court, where a teen girl is pregnant, or where the parents of a boy or girl has complained to the police about teen or pre-teen sexual activity. There are studies that give the overall picture — but unless you know someone directly involved in the court cases, you would not know of it since they are not public.

          If a girl presents at a doctor’s office, school, etc., as being pregnant, the doctor or school is required to make a police report (mandatory reporting) and it is always referred to the DA. It is handled through the courts to determine who is the father, and to determine if the girl must become a ward of the state, to determine if the baby will become a ward of the state, to arrange medical care, housing, food, etc., to determine if there has been incest or rape, etc. To keep them in court, they are charged with the crimes, which are allowed by law. If that were not true, they would not be subject to all these other interventions.

          There are also parents who file reports when they find their child is having same-sex sex.

  46. Bob

    The thing that doesn’t make sense to me is why he would take the girls to the kill barn, keep them there a number of hours, eventually kill them while the search party is occurring in front of him, and then move them back to the dump site. Why wouldn’t he just leave them in the barn? Also, this is pretty brazen to do all this within ear shot of the search party.

    • And if he did just take them to the barn, and never left that area during the assault and murders, why was the one girl’s cell phone pinging all over town that evening? I don’t think I ever read where anyone explained that, if it was indeed a fact.

      • Dlux

        I believe there to be one or two cell towers in Delphi – if the phone were dead or had no service it would constantly ping between the two looking for a signal. Also, if the person were local and abducted the girls and had their phone(s) they could essentially run errands or go about their day while the girls were incapacitated.

        • eric alter

          The phone situation is some of their secret “bait” or was.
          I had a discussion awhile back with a family member. I was supposed to casually let out what kind of phone was used.
          I had said I figured it had internal memory and not a removable card and maybe that was why pics and audio are as such.
          All the sirens went off when I said that. Then a week later I read an article from a Chicago news outlet that tells about the iPhone and cloud situation.
          Then she sent me a Google Earth pic with a quarry on the north side of Delphi circled telling me that’s where it was found.
          Your supposed to disagree and suggest another location.
          A serial killer targeting Delphi is rediculous enough. Now he is driving around town with the phone pinging all over and drives into a private stone quarry lake Infront of everyone, gets out of the vehicle and Chuck’s it in.
          But the phone went into her pocket in video mode? How does it still have power to ping?
          Talk of the phone gets the local crew all wound up.

      • Lotus

        I think the barn, the driving, all this stuff — is rumor.

        • eric alter

          I agree seems a bit much. I wonder if the rumor started there or far away?

        • eric alter

          If your local I don’t think you would be driving on that maintenance road and an outsider wouldn’t know it was there.
          The problem is where were they. I assume the first place they looked was at the end of the bridge where the Snapchat shots came from and the other side of the creek. If there was a scuffle or blood wouldn’t they have noticed?
          There is a WTHR broadcast from right there the night they were reported missing. The reporter is standing at the bridge sign at midnight saying LE went home and there randomly talking to people who are showing up to look for them. They were found behind the cemetery. That broadcast was 100 yards or less away from there?

  47. Nietsnie

    Have been following this since the first news cast.
    My condolences to the Families.
    I am certain this will be solved. Between the timing and the evidence involved.

    1) What was the Unsub’s PlanB?
    Being so close to the search area, I am puzzled the dogs didn’t catch wind of scent or heard a sound / also out of scope from the thermal imaging.
    He wasn’t afraid of being caught.
    Certainly there are footprints & tire tracks.

    2) Why hasn’t the relative who dropped the girls off been named in the public info?
    Had they done this before, was this a normal hiking routine or a last minute plan as if “cat-fished” online?

    • Lotus

      The relative who dropped off the girls was named. It is a teen sister. It was a day off school. There was a scheduled pickup time and place. They were not going to be left there for the whole day, but for an hour and a half or so. They hiked often and took pictures. They went to this place before. Many local people hike this trail. It was not considered dangerous at all for them to be there alone. It was a very nice day out. With the police and FBI having access to their accounts, if it was “catfishing” or just plain old meet-up plans, that would be discovered.

    • Mer

      The dogs were brought in from Illinois. I can’t remember where I read that. The probably weren’t sent for until after the bodies were found.

  48. Mer

    Does anyone have an opinion about unsub’s facial hair. Does he have a mustache or a goatee, or is he clean shaven?

    • Lotus

      I think the photo is not clear enough to tell. Same with head hair.

      Same with whatever is on his head — is it his hair/ a toupee/ a knit hat/ a cap/ a bicycle helmet?

      Two photos have been made public and they are moments apart, and yet these details look so different in each one.

      • eric alter

        This is the part that always gets me. If you sit at a PC and expand the photos you can see all of what your asking.
        Wouldn’t it be logical to think after this amount of time if they did not have a suspect, that they would show the public more.
        When was the last time LE held up the photos and audio and asked the public to take another look?

        • Dlux

          Can you blow up the pic and post it here?

        • eric alter

          It doesn’t look as if it’s possible to attach a pic. So I guess not. Several Facebook Detectives on here have stalked me already and issued Facebook warrants on me. I would assume they could help you.

        • eric alter

          Maybe it would be best to just wait for the FBI profile?

  49. VGLante

    What initiated as a positive site sharing information, ideas, and educated guesses, has turned into a he said she said mockery of a very nice piece of small town America and the people who live there.

    Let me just put it this way… not everyone who lives in Indiana or even in this area of Indiana talks, dresses, or thinks like BG. The LE here are not idiots and do not have it out for anyone in particular. In fact, I would say that they are taking every precaution possible to protect the rights of all, including those who are suspect, but not proven guilty. Granted, this is not an every day case in our town…it’s not the norm in anyplace where good people like those here want to live.

    So, rather put each other down and spew nonsense, based on our own short comings, mishaps, or even personal mistakes, let’s stick to the facts…or at least the information that is trying to move this investigation forward to a close. Stop the bashing and negativity…let’s try to bring the information together and not pull each other apart. Yes Eric, I’m talking to you and anyone else who can’t step away from your own ego enough to have an respectful, adult, open conversation about this case.

    As far as I know, this case has not been solved and we are all here because we want to see some resolution. Peace…

    Thank you Robert for venue to bring this all together. I believe there is good information mixed in here and that it may prove value to the conclusion of this terrible event.

    • Bob

      Well said, and I agree. I like to read what other people think or have heard (rumor or not). No need to snipe at each other.

    • Sun

      Yes, thank you Robert. One thing we can probably all agree on – we’re glad we’re not responsible for the next blog update on this. Wow. Please remember to donate at the “Support Beyond Highbrow” link at the top of the page. The man is doing God’s work here. And he will need another bottle of whisky!

    • eric alter


      Not sure it’s​ possible for me to make up news stories and make them appear real. That date on the story is interesting.
      Don’t let a sugar coating from some Delphi church folks lead ya astray.
      What’s the relevance. Delphi sources may not be truthful and more than likely have their own agenda. Part of which will be to accuse outsiders. Now that RL fizzled out their making the swing back towards America.
      When or if a local ever becomes charged with these murders, their going to delfect their life long resident Delphi status.
      Someone from Delphi left a comment on here basically stating that if you have been around or through there. They can consider you a local.
      That’s the Delphi Web being casted out.
      I wonder if that applies to people who have flown over at 1,500 feet in aircraft or went through in a Kayak on the Wabash River.
      That’s a rediculous statement which I’m sure would piss people off.
      The very first thing I said when I saw this case was COP. That was before the body moving rumors.
      I’m not maintaining that theory presently but I will say this.
      -The beginning of this entire situation doesn’t add up.
      -Location of where victims where discovered.
      -Claims of that area being searched on the
      first night.
      – Last known spot to be seen but not secured.
      -LE going home because it got dark.
      -The girls dismissed by the Sheriff as leaving town.
      -Dates and time of deaths.
      – Lone searchers walking in at midnight on Feb 13,
      I’m sure there is plenty I left out. But in the big picture it doesn’t add up or look good?

      • Kim

        Eric, you are cracking me up again! When my car used to break down on my way home from Chicago I used to marvel at how the “Hoosier Helpers” were always right on the spot. I really thought Hoosiers were top notch. When I visited the James Dean museum on the way to claiming my horse at a track near Dan Patch territory I still really liked all the Hoosiers I met. Even the Amish with my dog were different, but OK.

        However, if Delphi LE doesn’t solve this crime for these two young girls murders I will change my view forever. I’ll move to the gritty Upton Sinclair “The Jungle” view that you have and thank you for presenting it.

        You are a classic case of someone who should have gotten out of the Delphi area when 18 (probably 17). It wasn’t meant for you. After this case is resolved, I suggest you shake the dust off your feet….. and maybe write that book later as you are a super Keen observer of human nature and have a nice (Mark Twainish) style about your observations!! 🙂

    • You are welcome! And consider a donation. This is pretty much my job right now as the counseling has sort of dried up these days.


  50. ej




    My theory is if there is a hat or goggles, which I don’t think there is a hat. But I think if so, it might be of the equestrian type polo/jockey not the clothing brands.
    That leather bag could be called several things. such a deer hunting kit. But not to many can kill deer with out a weapon and ammo. that one on ebay you put your own separate holster on it for the firearm.
    The left handed draw is an absolute here. Like it’s a white male with 2 feet and hands.
    If I was a detective I would be talking to old coaches, at the little golf course in town, the local shooting range. Who swung and caught a ball left handed? Who golfs left handed? Who shoots a gun left handed? Who kick the football with the left foot?
    As I mentioned before only 10 percent of the population is left handed. Race and age decrease that number even more. Do the math and that number is really low, amazingly low.

  51. Kim

    Eh, I agree with you 100% on the vintage hunting bag! that’s what I believe I see in silhouette. I think the hat may be more like this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mossy-Oak-Fitted-Ear-Flap-Camo-Camouflage-Hunting-Winter-Hat-Cap-S-M-amp-L-XL-/400586748750
    but an older style with a bill of about 50% this size and soft! collapsible from wear. I’m not really seeing the jockey cap or goggles, however, I haven’t really tried to analyze pic because I figure FBI should be much better at that than me and should identify these.

    I think you are right on with the vintage ammo bag.

    • eric alter

      I personally don’t see a hat or goggles when I expand. The hair of whom I mentioned is the shape of some styles of hats.
      I haven’t spent much time trying to determine what is white on the shirt under the chin.
      But my first guess is it’s a rope tucked behind the harness. Second guess is it’s a corn seed shirt.
      It’s bugged me from the day I figured out what I believe. That he was not disguised​, because it would seem as if no one was going to be left alive. If that White is a rope. Then it’s​ definitely premeditated.
      But regardless I don’t believe there was a rape due to them announcing discovery of DNA from the scene 9 days later.
      The motive I feel will be connected to sp#2 what ever it turns out to be?
      It’s interesting if you think back that BG was just a POI that they wanted to talk too and ask him to come down to the station?
      And when he didn’t? He was the Suspect?
      Why not just say suspect from the beginning?
      I totally don’t get that. If this person killed these girls and they knew it, why would they think he was going to come talk to them?

      • eric alter

        A guy has a video on YouTube talking about goggles. I don’t see them myself.

      • Kim

        I also wondered about the splotch of bright white, rope would explain it. This guy wasn’t modern enough to use zip ties then, but definitely dressed for nefarious ‘country action’. If there was a 16yo boyfriend maybe girls were meeting him there that day (was he out of school also)?

        But someone, other than Abby & Libby, should know his identity as they’d been dating for awhile. Girls talk, especially young girls…… even her mother likely knew who boyfriend was, I would have known when my daughter was 13.

        Also, if there were a 16yo sp#2 known to LE it seems it’d be much easier to break a 16yo down for confession/info on this crime.

        If there were a 2nd juvenile sp#2 I think this case would already be solved. In contrast, most hunters I know are loners; making the case more difficult.

      • Eric, if the murderer is your suspect, what is LE waiting on?

    • eric alter

      Actually I kind of like that hat. 🙂

    • eric alter

      He was in the Air Force.


        Eric, this may seem illogical, but bear with me…do you know of your suspect having any connection to the local meth trade? I know this angle isn’t popular here(or many other places), but DG(one girl’s father) has 2 felony meth convictions, and was busted a 3rd time while on parole after being released from prison. Right before trial, those latest charges were mysteriously dismissed. If you look at Daniel Morrissey’s situation in the Iowa case, it’s similar. He had allegedly(according to his own mother-in-law) entered into a plea agreement which would knock a 45yr term down to 5yrs. A day before those girls went missing, he pulled out of the deal, and ended up getting 90yrs(do 45). DG would likely have been a habitual offender with those 2015 charges. It would seem he may have offered up something to the prosecutor(or maybe feds?) to get those charges dismissed. The whole are seems ate up with meth, and several recent busts within 75 miles or so, have brought to light the cartel’s being the main distribution network throughout the midwest now. Cartels contract with allied gangs, and also have been known to kill the children of snitches. The old “2 shots in the head” myth about contract killers is easily debunked with a bit of research, as well. These guys use many and varied methods, sometimes even posing bodies to make it appear like sexual assault, etc, to throw off LE in the initial investigation. This theory may not hold water, but it is possible, if we consider local business owners, etc, possibly investing into a black market(meth) they thought would turn a quick, huge profit, only to have their investment lost by a local snitch.

        • eric alter

          Well said but no. He is health foods and healthy. He is also the kind of person that would be in bed with the police and trying to get awarded pats on the back from the community. Or civil leaders privatly.
          The situation you describe is very real and unfortunate as we entered into the 2000’s it toppled the entire area. One county over the Sheriff’s Department is the Meth Trade.
          I wouldn’t be surprised at all if Delphi Cops and CCSD have joined the club. Everyone will BS they arrest people. That’s part of it. A bunch of us in Logansport used to by pot from cops. Straight out of the property room.
          Unfortunately those police when want to move up become state police and get assigned to the local state police post. Those who run and tell the state police about something in town get dealt with in a way they never would have thought.
          My guess is their going to possibly kill the person I mentioned.
          But no he was never into drugs or recreational drugs when I knew him.

        • Dlux

          Makes sense – Kill him, say they raided his residence to arrest him and there was a shootout, then proclaim he was the only person involved in crimes…case closed.

        • Flower Bud

          Shane, I get what you’re saying. I followed the Iowa cousin’s case.
          Many wondered about Dan’s plea deal at that time. I would also like to know about DG. Both situations seem similar.

          Dan Morrissey gave a phone interview yesterday. It may answer questions. I think Eric’s answer was referring to IB.

          Here’s the interview from KWWL:


      • Mer

        I don’t think he is wearing an insulated hat with ear muffs. I think he is wearing a short billed cap. Do a search for infantry cap or cadet cap. It’s a conventional baseball style cap with a shorter bill. I think the bill shadows his eyes in the first pic, and I think you can see the bill in the other pic too

  52. All right joker, you’re banned.


  53. Lotus

    He says he falls asleep. That doesn’t cut it for a sex worker.

  54. eric alter

    The DNR has night vision. I’m not sure who all was there that night.
    Whatever the case was. Not securing the last place they were seen is colossal neglect and it served the community very well didn’t it?
    I wonder what would have happened if one of the girls Dad was a Local Cop?
    The truth is the next morning they were HimHawing around hanging out in Delphi stroking themselves when one of those girls was clinging to her life.
    WTHR let the beans out on a volunteer searcher going back in the morning and finding them, left and took police back. Emily Longnecker even stated that he told police he hadn’t touched them.
    That was the 1st news story from RL’s on March 17th

    • Dirk Alan Schrontz

      I brought this up weeks ago when I saw a YouTube video that was posted by ??? and it has been deleted now but Inot this video they show this bridge guy and a comparison photo of the individual that found the girls bodies the 14th of February. The comments for this video said from one gentleman that he worked for a news team in Indianapolis as a photographer and that the bridge guy is in fact the same guy that found the girls bodies and that he (photographer) took the picture of said bridge guy. Anot her comment mentioned that IB was involved the first night “searching” for the girls. It also said that everyone searching the first night was informed to meet the next morning at the fire station so a detailed search plan could be implemented but that for some reason IB had gone out by himself to the Monon Trail supposedly searching Instead of meeting at the fire station as he had been instructed??? In the archive released by the State Police for the 13th and 14th of February you hear on the scanner an individual say ” That IB just ran by up and said that the girls had been located” and thenjoy he says to another person on the radio if this had been confirmed? The response was “No”. After that comment you start hearing over the radio for authorities to head to the crime scene.
      Seems really fishy to me why and how they were found by IB!!! Possibly if he was involved he didn’t sleep well those few hours and freaked out and returned early that morningng to find Abby still alive so heasy finished what he had started the night before? Also I have a very credible LE source that has stated that these girls were not sexually abused!!!

      • Lotus

        The photos of the man on the bridge (Bridge Guy) were stills taken from a video made by Liberty German using her phone. Liberty is one of the girls who was killed. She made the video apparently because the girls felt wary of the man. He is believed to be their killer. His identity is not yet known. Police and FBI have asked anyone with information on the identity of the man in the photos to please submit a tip by phone or email. There have been over 16,000 tips. As far as has been made publicly known, the police do not yet have a known suspect.

        It is rumored that the video Liberty took includes at least audio of the entire attack.

        • Mer

          The police have released another photo. It is a frame from between the 2 photos they already released. It is more blurry than the other 2 pics.

        • eric alter

          In what Country? Because I don’t see it and there is not one single news story about another picture online?

        • Lotus

          What is the point in releasing a blurry frame? Does it give any more insight?

      • Kim

        Corroboration of Eric’s info Dirk, thanks. I think it’s extremely incriminating. While some folks think a perp never gets involved in a search I think in a ‘village’ or small community situation it fits. I’ve seen that movie before, it’s right out of a TV script.

        I also notice that Delphi press releases (the big National ones that come up on Google video) never show any interviews with town folk, only the well-known school principle (no kids in sight) interpreting how folks feel.

        Seeing Libby &Abbys principal all the time (no kids even in background) seems a bit weird to me and fits Eric’s proposal of playing the sympathy card meanwhile no citizens are ever interviewed. It’s entirely possible the FBI left in disgust realizing the community may not be able to mete out meaningful justice in a major crime.

        • Lotus

          Well of course they would not put any kids in a video about trying to find a killer who just murdered two of the kids in the town. This is not a game. Two beautiful smart athletic talented beloved girls have been murdered.

        • Lotus

          The FBI did not leave in disgust. They did not leave at all. The FBI is handling the phone tips. They will handle anything else they are needed to handle.

      • Mer

        I was told by 2 woman at a restaurant in Delphi that only LE and fire personnel were involved in the search on 2-13. That search ended couple hours after dark, so around 8:30 to 9:00pm. I think at that point, they had no idea the girls were dead, otherwise they would not have stopped searching. After the official search on 2-13 ended locals came out to look around. The search of RLs land that occurred on the evening of 2-13 may not have involved any LE personnel. Those searchers were described as neighbors of RL. If true, then IB was not involved in any official search on 2-13.
        One of the women that I talked to dated a volunteer fireman and he was involved in the search. I think her info is pretty reliable. She also said that IB was the person who found the bodies.

        • Kim

          Thx for info/corroboration.

        • Lotus

          This is same as all I heard, too. I also heard that the families came up with the idea that maybe the girls had started walking to Flora (5 or 6 miles away) to visit a cousin. This is far-fetched that they would walk that far, but the family was searching for any answer.

          I also read that the girls texted one of their friends while they were on the trail to say they were being followed by a man.

          Whoever did this crime needs to be captured because he poses such a terrible danger. If anyone has any info, please email or call it in to police.

        • Sumi

          I heard about the text as well, that Lotus mentioned below. What time was this text sent? Did “the friend” tell LE and the relatives about this text right after they disappeared? IF not, why not? IF yes, why LE called off the search, and why the relatives still thought that the girls hiked to Flora? I can’t imagine, that nobody was able to put two and two together. Unless, the friend did not check her/his texts until next day, or he/she lives in a different town and did not know about the search…

        • eric alter

          It would take LE 10 minutes to knock on doors and find them in Flora? But I personally think the investigation is large. Regardless of negative opinions​ towards LE and dropping the opening kick in the endzone. Murder investigations in the area do go to court with no stones left unturned.
          They collect it all. Cell records, debit card use they talk to everyone. They learn the motive before the arrest. They only get one shot on a trial. A local with a clean record who goes to church on Easter and helps hide the Easter eggs for kids after service is a little harder one to pitch at a jury of people they consider to be retarded.
          Funny how the locals on here have vanished isn’t it?
          They went to school, church and grew up with everyone they know their Small Goody 2 Shoe town better than anyone.
          But their never going to admit to knowing some local Guy over 40 being left handed, unless he has some OWI’S or an exwife saying he slapped her.
          Look at RL and all that he is. They skip over the left handed issue, 20 year old white mustache, voice, etc. He’s completely out of the picture. But But they know he knows something no way he doesn’t! He is a drunk look at him! His ex-wife says he is a bad man!
          How many of these DipShits own 40 acre’s of land and a home? Well in my book he did something right.
          The Delphi residents who are responsible for trying to exploit this tragedy as being victimized by a worldly serial killer that know everyone in town will tell you they don’t know one single left handed person.
          Delphi doesn’t have any left handed people or Negro’s!
          Move along there is no problem here!
          LMFAO… only at the ignorance.

        • Lotus

          What I heard was that Libby and the friend were texting back and forth. When the girls were noted as missing, maybe the family started contacting close friends to ask if they had heard from the girls.

          It seems maybe what you are hinting at is why didn’t Liberty use her phone to call police while she still could? The only answer must be that she did not feel like the danger was clear or present and by the time it was, it was too late.

          All the rest can probably be answered by knowing Delphi is a small town with very few serious crimes.

      • eric alter

        Can you provide a link for and or the scanner archive.

        • Kim

          Excellent points Sumi! Seems danger sirens should have been going off for those girls that night.

        • Sumi

          This is a reply to Lotus. What I am hinting at is that: Did anybody notify the relatives and/or LE on the 13th about Libby’s “being followed” text? I get the small town aspect and all that stuff. I grew up in a small town, where we never had to lock our doors, but… Come on! Somebody sends you a text that they are being followed and a few hours later they disappear and nobody thinks that maybe, just maybe, something terrible happened to them.

        • Lotus

          I surely do not know that answer. Did the family contact the friend to say Abby and Libby were missing? If not, how would the friend know? Keep in mind, these are all young teen girls and their judgement is not the same as someone who is older and has seen a lot in life.

          Also, the friend might not have had a phone number for the older sister or mother. Many or most times, a person has only the phone numbers of the exact person with whom they are friends, not their whole family. Did the older sister or mother have a phone number for the friend, or vice versa? Maybe the only one who communicated with the friend was Libby. Do you have contact info for everyone your family members would ever communicate with? I sure do not.

          Think of the logistics. Libby texts the friend saying they are being followed. The man gets close. Libby starts videoing him. That situation turns violent very quickly. Libby is soon dead or on her way to being dead. An hour or so later, the older sister shows up to pick up Abby and Libby at the designated time and place, and they are not there. The sister looks around and does not find them. Police are called. At what point is the friend called and asked? Didthe older sister or mother even have a phone number for the friend to call her and ask her??

          Obviously, the friend came forward and told that she was texted by Libby that the girls were being followed in the woods. But when and how that happened, we in the public do not know.

  55. Bob

    Wow! Did I miss something?

  56. eric alter

    Welcome to Carroll County Indiana Robert.
    That’s probably one of their Deputies.
    The more this goes local the more the real Delphi is going to surface.
    They were counting money and making big plans. When they were playing the serial killer victimize card on America.
    They slipped this one in right in the middle of that.

    • eric alter

      Iowa Beef Packing known as IBP is in Logansport Indiana next town east of Delphi. They were bought by Tyson’s and yes they send people to and from Iowa weekly for training, management and maintenance.


    • eric alter

      Delphi was playing the Victimized by a Serial Killer card on America.
      They were in the proces of exploiting the murders and would have exploited as much as they could have.
      A Serial Killer dropping in and victimizing them was $.
      A local respected resident gets them humiliated.
      The tried to get this story out to America during the beginning of the exploitation campaign but no sister stations picked it up. It went unseen by America. They were actually thinking that the coverage over the murders would make people or someone feel sorry enough for them to give them this money.
      If you send Carroll County Money your paying for vacations and beer.
      It would be interesting to see a story on why no Black Folks live there. It’s a hop skip and a jump from Lafayette. Hmmm



        In regard to “why no black folks live there”, Indiana has been a Klan stronghold since the 2nd wave of the 1920’s. Some towns have evolved. Others have not. I suspect that’s what you were referring to. Meth and the Klan go hand in hand these days. I guess it’s more fun gettin’ spun and screwing your sister when you can blame “blacky” for all your ills. Yeah…I’m a Hoosier by blood as well. Some things never change.

      • Kim

        Eric is the Mark Twain of Indiana. It would all be funny if 2 young girls weren’t slaughtered by some monster. If LE doesn’t arrest someone soon I am going to come around to Eric’s view fast.

        I’m starting to wonder if I was right when I asked weeks ago if the FBI might have packed up and left in disgust…..

        • Mer

          I think Eric is scarred by some of his interactions with LE in Delphi. They probably had it out for him.

        • eric alter

          Your a Genius. Now tell me what Goddamn difference it makes? What is your point?

        • eric alter

          This press conference is pivatol to a lot discussed here and to the public
          It’s afternoon Monday March 13. March 11th at 12:01 I called the FBI, and emailed the tipline.
          March 12, I contacted an attorney friend in Lafayette Indiana and he reviewed my tip and had it to Ives the prosecutor Monday morning.
          This is the beginning of the end. The manhunt ended.
          Tensions were high after outside LE found out it may have been a particular local guy on the bridge.
          Look at the FBI guy and ask yourself why he would even make such a statement? Who and for what reason would people not think the FBI wasn’t proud to stand with local LE?


        • eric alter

          Also by the end of the week outside LE and the FBI were gone.
          It was no longer an FBI matter and they didn’t waste any time getting out of Dodge.

    • Eric please one space between each paragraph. I am not going to bother with your spelling as it is a bit late in the day to catch up on something like that.

      Like this:

      Welcome to Carroll County Indiana Robert.

      That’s probably one of their Deputies.

      The more this goes local the more the real Delphi is going to surface.

      They were counting money and making big plans. When they were playing the serial killer victimize card on America.

      They slipped this one in right in the middle of that.



      • eric alter

        I’m with ya. I got a knew keypad on the Galaxy and it’s not working out very well.
        I’ll try to make sure I proof read these comments or go to my Desktop that has Windows XP.
        I’m actually not ranting on Delphi. Simply saying if your going to catch a Poacher, you better know the woods are your going to be the prey.
        Here is a classic. This is what happens after RL gets out of the joint and returns back home where his humble small town neighbors took all of his shit after they sent him to prison on Bullshit.

        • eric alter

          Larry E. Farner, Google the name and read the appeal.
          Since then the building the tavern was in basically burnt to the ground.


          They aren’t even talking about the arson fire that killed four young black kids shortly before this double murder. Wasn’t that in Flora?

        • Lotus

          Police say there were incendiary accelerants placed intentionally throughout the home. Wouldn’t the woman know who was in her home? Her four daughters were killed. She had them 2 years apart, each by a different father, it sounds like, since each has a different last name. That’s a whole lot of irresponsible living that probably brought lots of dangerous people into the lives of the children. If someone was walking around in their home placing accelerants, wouldn’t the mother know?

  57. Hoolie

    Did some research on amish order around delphi. I’m trying to link the delphi and evansdale murders through a possible connection of the packing houses and the amish community. There is a Tyson Fresh Meats located at 501 N. Elk Run Rd., Waterloo, Iowa. This is located directly between where the Evansdale cousins were abducted and their bodies were found. If a delphi local with amish ties was sent there for training, would he have stayed with family or friends with similar amish ties? In addition, the old amish order affiliated with Delphi practice “triple dunking” in a creek or water source. In each of these cases the bodies were found next to a creek. Still trying to figure out specifically if it could all tie together.

    • Lotus

      Robert, who runs this blog, has as his theory that one killer is responsible for both sets of killings, and that he works in one of the meat packing plants. I think that is Robert’s theory, anyway. You can read it on here.

      Police announced that they do not think the two sets of killings are linked. They gave no reasons to support that viewpoint.

      • eric alter

        I was #2 on the seniority list at the Logansport , Indiana IBP/Tyson’s facility. Myself and others such as that person, came in at the beginning of IBP starting up a facility in Indiana.
        It’s pork, specifically “pork division”. Here is where we start to separate the flock.
        I’m a technician. I was a Generation Mechanic in the Core of Engineers, Army.
        Other person – aircraft Mechanic, Air Force.
        The “Jungle’s” these days are equipped with very technical machinery. The mother of all invention is to eliminate a human being production worker. Who’s hands and body go to hell faster than a computerized machine.
        Some of us made very good money and basically lived together especially in the beginning.
        From 95 to 2000 everybody including me was being sent somewhere or people where coming in. All of which was mostly was back and forth from Iowa.
        I never went to Iowa, but I went to Tennessee for a week to learn a piece of equipment.
        The person who drove the company car part of the way was? HIM!


        • Kim

          Linder if he drove to/attended training or work sessions in Iowa?

        • eric alter

          More than likely and more than once.

        • Vee

          Could the murder have taken place where they butcher the pigs? I have been around barns my entire life, and either there was a bucket or something to collect the blood or they were killed somewhere else. There is no way they could get all that blood up, in the dark, inside that barn. The stains would still be there the next morning. Not to mention, that blood smells and you need bleach to get rid of that smell quickly. I used to work in a trauma ER, and I smelled blood every time I worked. And he did all this in 24 hours? I can’t seem to fit killing them in the barn with the timeline of events.

          And if, bless their hearts, they were beaten up as badly as they say, there would be blood splatter. You know when I think of this case, it reminds me of the green mile…when the man says..” He killed them with their love for each other.” I can see that happening, I can see the murderer using their love as a weapon to control them.

        • We have all now abandoned the Barn Theory for now. We still think they may have been killed in an outbuilding, but not that one.

          The action is all in the password protected threads now to be honest. There is a modest fee of minimum $10 donation/subscription to access it, but you also get to comment on non-Delphi stuff on the site forever. The private forum is very active and has a ton of information on it. We went private to avoid defamation charges and lawsuits and to keep spies and trolls out. We have already changed the password once. You are certainly invited to join us in the forum and look at our vast array of data/evidence if you can part with the 10 bucks.

          There are probably 100 websleuths working on the case in the private forum now. We have a huge team.

      • Mer

        Robert’s theory about the person who killed the girls in Evansdale is a strong one. Early on, LE was saying that they believed the killer in Delphi may have come from out of state. They were working on a serial killer being involved. I know from my one LE source that the Sheriff in Evansdale had contacted the Sheriff in Delphi about the possibility of a connection.

        I think the only reliable leaks from LE would be those that were leaked early. LE has the information very secure. Anything supposedly leaked more recently by LE might be disinformation. I don’t think they have a lot to go on, so the info they know is crucial for a conviction.

        • Lotus

          Yes, I agree it is strong. I read that the father of one of the girls killed in Iowa contacted the investigators in Indiana to say he thought it could be the same killer. There are so many similarities. The girls even look similar. The Iowa girls were probably born the same years as the Indiana girls, but were killed 5 years earlier.. Maybe this killer has an issue with girls from that time frame. Maybe he has an issue with seeing two girls playing together outside unsupervised. Who knows? Whatever it is, he needs to be located.

        • Kim

          I looked over that guy’s (SM) MySpace etc. over 2 mos ago when Rob mentioned. While I don’t know anything about Evansville he just didn’t look capable enough for this crime. Sure he has anger and psychological problems, maybe true pedo but frankly he didn’t look smart, motivated or capable enough for the set-up on this Delphi case.

          I was even wondering if the IB suspect was, but ex-airforce, mechanic and other items on his media indicate he’s an exceptional person. And his voice is a stunning match; is that also true for Robs guy (SM)?

      • No longer believe that or at least have no reason to. I continue to believe that Mr. X is responsible for the Evansdale killings, however, I do not have a lot on him on Delphi, other than Mr. X’s ex-wife stating that Bridge Guy is her ex-husband, Mr. X. He was also off work that day.

      • Pam

        I was actually victimized by a few guys who had affiliation with the Amish community. They weren’t Amish personally, but that’s their ancestry and they came from families that had “left the flock” and joined the rest of the world.

        Unfortunately, I’ve noticed that they’re able to use that connection to get work at Amish farms, probably because the Amish aren’t going to go online to do background checks to find criminal records, and the Amish aren’t going to hear about them from non-Amish people who were victimized because they pretty much keep to themselves. I suspect that the same men have victimized Amish girls, too, but the Amish keep to themselves and I don’t know how likely they are to go to police. But it does follow that Amish are easier to victimize, and they do offer an isolated population that can protect criminals unintentionally just by living the disconnected life that they do.

    • Kim

      Hoolie, very interesting. Hopefully investigators are either reading or have looked at such connections also.

  58. Georgia

    Eric alter as you stated in a previous post you beat you wife and had some run in with law. I hope you’ve turned your life for the better, since it’s hard to respect a man that beats his kid mom no matter what she did. But you are convincing if you happened to be hanging out with that type of rough crowd in the past in delphi area. You would have an insight to the type of fellas that live in area. Hope you aren’t just BS and maybe your tip leads to something soon. If this is you in website below it shows you are telling truth about beating ex, unless you just pretending to be this guy. http://www.in.gov/judiciary/opinions/pdf/05130802msm.pdf

    • eric alter

      Yep that trail cost me 38k. She got an old friend who was a deputy in Cass county to bring her out to my place at the Logansport Golf Club. I lived on an Island with a private drive. He hid behind a tree she came up and walked in my house and started shit with my current wife for passing out flyers in Kokomo about this Dude she married being a child molester. I was in the middle of a custody battle. I had kept my kids and filed emergency custody. A Jude in Howard county made me return them saying no need for an emergency change Howard county dropped the touching charge. It was rolled over to a regular custody battle.
      I’m a hero to my kids. She dumped the child molester in two months. And she will tell you how the prosecutor and this cop coached her to perjure herself in the trial.
      Would I do again? no. Do I regret it? yes. It was me who figured out something happened, when I noticed something wrong with the way one of my kids was acting.
      She married the guy 17 days after meeting him from online. He was registered 2 counts of child molestation. CPS said he was grooming one of my kids.
      Crime of passion.

    • Kim

      Georgia … I was under the impression that once one serves their time they have fulfilled their debt to society on that issue. Although unfortunate this is a matter between the man and his family at this point.


  59. Ben Franklin

    First time posting… kind of anywhere. But this case, as many I read / review sickens me , angers, & baffles.. with this case and the almost three months of time with no identified suspect..

    Why no new photos, why no video of the unsub fully walking the bridge?, why no more voice audio that is okay to use, where is the FBI profile?, where is LE’s best questimate range of height & Weight from this video/pics?

    If left hand theory is correct why is it not stated as such. ??? FBI / LE has way better equipment than all of the great sleuths here.

    I understand they want to keep it close to the vest but a little more info about who & what is be looked for may weed out this unthinkable demon (s) … but as i say this I wonder if something isnt adding up as being stated above.

    Lastly, more articles of fluff and nothing and also press coverage of nonsubstance either. Really makes you wonder whats really going on here.

    • Lotus

      I agree with some of what you say. I think if LE divulged more information, it would spur more tips. I think divulging more could be helpful in other cases, including Sherri Papini (abduction), Missy Bevers (murder), Rhoden Family (8 murders), and some others.

      You ask why more video and pictures have not been released. The police only have what Liberty German made. They say some of it depicts the crime, either visually or with audio, and that it is too graphic to release. That might be true and release of such things might lead to copycats. However, if the police were to release more audio of the suspect, and if the killer were saying horrible things — people might recognize him by the things he says. Often when a person has fits of rage, they say the same things each time, no matter who the victims are or the circumstances. If he is calling the girls specific horrible names, he has probably used those names before dozens of times on others.

      Same thing with the method of killing. We the public do not know if those girls were shot or strangled or had their skulls bashed in. If we knew, it might ring a few bells in peoples’ memories.

      Same with the Rhoden Family killings. Are there tire tracks? If so, what kind of car is it? What kind of gun(s) were used and what kind of ammo? That can bring forth people who know who uses that sort of gun.

      Withholding info seems like it is not a very good method of finding killers.

      Same with all these other crimes. And what do all these crimes have in common? A small town, inexperienced police department.

      • eric alter

        Perhaps there is not a need to release more?

        • Ben Franklin

          Exactly what I was trying to say at the end of my post. I agree.. The reason why I think its weird is bc of little things like more small video clips of BG walking for a few seconds 3/4 seconds or more audio for 3/4 more words, etc..

          It doesn’t make sense unless your right.. Which I think you could be.. and hope your right.. I have read all of your posts, saw your fb posts/comments, and seen some of the youtube videos.

          You have provided great insight and knowledge for us all. Thank you. I hope they do have person (s) in sight …

      • Ben Franklin

        Yes.. I agree.

        All I am saying and asking for is like 3/6/9 seconds of him walking down that trail on video ( Their has to be more to that) and not having to have a sleuth put the two pics together to show the walk.. Also, pull out a few seconds of saying something.. Obviously nothing that jeopardizes the case.. I understand not knowing all of the details etc.. but they need to give a little more. Tips dwindle over time unless the person that did it tells someone or someone close finds out. so other than that thats it. IMO.

        I agree with all of your things.. Thanks for replying and explaining.

        • Lotus

          I agree. Releasing more could jog someone’s memory.

        • Lori

          This whole thing makes me sick! Release more info or arrest someone WTF!

        • Hopeful

          It is my opinion that LE already knows who they’re looking for, and they’re keeping a close eye on them for the time being. I think its a matter of “dotting all the i’s and crossing all the t’s before making an arrest. Think Casey Anthony: LE was so quick to make an arrest and charge her, but when they made it to court they didn’t have enough evidence to convict, yet. That evidence came to light after she was already acquitted.
          I think this explains why they haven’t released any more information. They don’t have to. It would also explain why they’re no longer putting the pictures out there, asking everyone to take another look, listen to the voice again. It might even explain why the FBI would pull back from the investigation, IF they actually pulled back.
          Again, its just my opinion. But I’ve never in my life wanted more to be right.

  60. Steve Mathis

    Eric Alter, Are you applying that Farner might be a suspect in the Flora killings and it could be racially motivated? I read the appeal, and it makes sense. Wheres Farner now.

    • eric alter

      Last time I seen him is when I was giving him some tobacco in the joint. They called him Barge Burner and and took me straight to him. I was at work 3rd shift the night he burnt the boat. People came in and said he was down at that tavern threatening to burn the boat because some city offials had pulled the one two on him. Farner told me in the joint but I actually forget most of what he said. He was being or had been ripped off and something about $15,k
      People say those statements quoted in the appeal are false. Once again the people who came in on 3rd shift that night at 10pm quoted him as saying nothing like that.
      Delphi is Racist. Hispanics walk freely there and in Logansport and rarely are charged with crimes. They let them go when they pull them over drunk in the middle of the night with no license and insurance.
      They learned early on that they can’t milk them or their grandparents on the civil shake down.
      They skip out. They don’t pay court costs, fines or probation fees and Immigration would not come get them.
      It cost money to bring them back from Texas or wherever they run off too. They pick up a different name and they have to be finger printed before Texas would know the have a warrant in Indiana for failing to appear in court.
      2nd and most important reason Hispanics have a walking pass is the Meat Packers won’t tolerate their workforce being drove away.
      Blacks know the game in Delphi. Regarding IPC they can go there work and go back to Lafayette. If they stray of course their going to jail for whatever reason Delphi see’s fit.
      Roddy Goings, Flora Indiana. He’s an older black with an education. Raised his family there and as far as I know he still lives there. Him and his family where the only Blacks in the entire County. Roddy may be an Attorney now?
      Farner was barely capable of doing what he did in Delphi.
      The Klan used to set their victims house’s on fire and shoot them when they ran out.
      Small town police departments in Indiana stopped killing People one generation ago. No need for killing anyone anymore when you have a corrupted County Court and Court House.
      Call Roddy Goings he likes to talk.

      • eric alter

        Farner has one leg, yeah.
        That boat going up and down the canal would have been a Racist’s middle finger flying high.
        The boat was knew and cost a lot of money to build. She was a couple days away from her maiden voyage.
        Captain Hook burnt the Canal Boat for other reasons. Reasons they don’t want to discuss.

  61. Kim

    Eric, once a suspect is charged (godspeed the boys in LE do it soon), do you think this town is capable of effectively trying and convicting this guy? Maybe they would have to move to a different county to get a ‘fair’ trial? I understand Indiana is a death penalty state.

    • eric alter

      Interesting question. I figure the prosecutor will want the case moved and the defense will want it left there.
      The locals may be inclined to come back with a hung jury. Not many are going to romance a local with a clean record killing those girls.
      Ironically a lot of people who commit murder are not criminals.
      I think the prosecutor would be happy to see a change of venue.
      Another interesting thought is. Ives the prosecutor wants re-elected as do the others.
      The sheriff’s come and go there. The current sheriff is getting tossed under the bus either way.
      I got word today a couple of love birds have been trying to borrow money from family.
      This indicates an attorney pulling out.
      I also heard some of the Folks are going to go after the girlfriend in the wrong way.
      I’m not sure why from the beginning. My local friends there to include a couple Family members that are not playing detective have all said. They believe a woman was involved.
      I have yet to see that anywhere in comments from people who claim to have all these sources?

      • eric alter

        I don’t know that to be fact about the attorney. They tend to demand a bunch of money hoping you can’t pay, if they want to dump you. Once they enter into the record as council. Reasons to withdraw are more complicated and not being fully paid doesn’t work for the court.
        All I know is they were trying to borrow money.
        And more to your question. Yes I think they could handle a trial of that caliber, but I don’t think they would want to. Lafayette would probably suit both sides better?

        • Mer

          If they ever arrest and charge someone for this crime, the trial will have to be moved somewhere within Indiana. It won’t go to Lafayette or Monticello. That’s just too close. It would be moved far away.

        • eric alter

          I forget how that works. But part of it is a choice between 3 counties, I think the judge offers up those 3. That’s after one side files for change of venue.

      • Kim

        Eric, re “ironically a lot of people who commit murder are not criminals”, seems consistent with Libby’s family asking initially for him to turn himself in, however, this BG is certainly a major criminal now. It doesn’t have the motive, rage, revenge, a mental break, this person is a killer now. The condition of the bodies likely told the FBI much about the killers state of mind.

        My first jury duty was a double homicide, attempted triple but the third victim survived although unable to testify. There was only motive (young man had threatened bosses when fired) and the gun was found but no ties of weapon to defendant who also failed to produce an alibi. Nine of the 12 jurors had him guilty at first straw vote, I’m one of 3 who held out for several days before going along with other jurors. I was a young mother and didn’t have the strength to hold out against those who were certain he did it on the basis of only very weak circumstantial (only motive really) evidence. Also, he had a terrible public defender, and of course….. he was a young black man.

        I’ve refused jury duty since, although I got calls every year after as if I were on a preferred list. I would make an exception for this case; the voice match is an unbelievable and it seems all the evidence lines up.

        The lovebirds look like a romance of convenience with the pics professing true love dated 2/19. Desperation makes for strange Bedfellows.

        • eric alter

          Yes Kim I’m aware of a lot you mentioned in regards to trials and juries. Not as the result of my criminal record either although that was helpful.
          People are screwed from the start. Mainly because the public believes everything the prosecution says. Prosecutors and police lie worse than anyone under oath.
          What are you going to do about it?
          Those pics in FB profile. If you look deeper that the first mention or pic of him. It claims the have been in a relationship 10 months.
          This being his girlfriend makes him not the person I knew.
          I promise everyone that she is at the bottom of a motive.
          Several more things about her profile.
          The detective in me tells me she doesn’t have custody of here kids and she has another FB account.
          The Father and ex have the same name.
          I believe his first name is Shaun instead of the other spelling.
          They aren’t related. It’s probably the the entire reason the had a relationship to begin with. Totally rediculous yes

        • aaron

          Link to FB page of lovebirds or pics? Kim how did you find them on FB if you don’t know who eric is talking about? Did I miss something of him saying who?

        • Kim

          Aaron, open up Ib’s 2nd FB page (w/no profile pic). It’s one of the 2 female friends. She has/had him with her in her profile pic. She is also pictured in 2 pics in camo fatigues in this (Roberts WordPress) blog up above playing “guns”, ostensibly paintball.

        • Kim

          I don’t like FB and can’t make much from her page. She and your suspect seem most unlikely pair. Did Abby’s mom work in nursing home/healthcare by any chance? Jealousy and revenge can be very strong motives for women.

          Only other strange thing is the guy she’s pictured with a year ago, he’s on her friend list and has a pretty scary (facial expression) profile pic on his FB page in his Army uniform and he seems to have quite a penchant for pole dancers. Is he the dad you mention (he’s not a Shaun)? Without living in community with her it’s really hard to know about her crowd.

        • Pam

          I’m sorry, but the crimes as described were brutal, and usually when they’re that heartless the perp has a LONG criminal history. You don’t go from zero to Charlie Manson overnight. His past record might not be murder, but I’d be shocked if he hadn’t been accused of rape at least a couple of times. Very possible the cops didn’t take it seriously and he wasn’t convicted of any or all of the rapes, leaving him on the streets to victimize the next girl. That’s how serial killers are made.

  62. paula

    Eric, your posts remind me of a book by Thomas Tyron decades ago…”Harvest Home”…..frightening the undercurrent in some communities….you’re scaring the crap out of all of us….

    but keep up the good work…..LOL

    • eric alter

      I’ll have to check that out, thanks. I’m at a loss as to how I got here?
      I really didn’t want this. In the beginning People stood inform of me and laughed.
      They never really finished because they didn’t turn their heads from what I was showing them.
      It would sink in before they could finish that laugh.

      • Kim

        Eric, I hope you stay on this until an arrest is made. It’s so important for those girls. Also, School will be out soon, if I lived there I’d have to either send my kids away for the summer or simply move if the local old boys can’t get it up to make an arrest. I’m sure it was very disturbing to recognize the voice, and all other characteristics. I thought that was what rewards were for, to spur that kind of thinking.

        No one is going to wrap this guy up in a package with a bow, drive him to the Sheriff’s office and present him as a gift which seems to be what local LE expects. If he is the perp, and this town ever manages to see justice, the Governor should give you an award for staying on this and literally making Delphi safe for young girls again. The guy on that Bridge is a cold killer….there can be zero doubt about that.

  63. Mer

    I’m changing my view of the crime. Or, at least being more open minded.
    They could have never left the trail area, notwithstanding the rumors of drag marks, suspect vehicles, structures, sexual assault, etc.

    I just watched a video of the area taken from a helicopter on the afternoon of 2-14. The creek in that area is waist deep, and the direction ‘down the hill’ is towards the creek. We don’t know if unknown DNA was found on the girls’ bodies.

    They could have been subdued, forced to wade across the creek, and killed quickly. We don’t know. I hope LE knows.

    Any search of the area with night vision that first night was probably not done by an aircraft with night vision. It was probably done with night vision binoculars, or a night vision scope. The girls’ bodies could have been overlooked because of trees or the topography of the location their bodies were found. The bodies could have been overlooked the first night.

    If the murderer was from out of town, he could have been gone within the rumored 40 minutes of audio. If he was a local, he could have been done with the crime early enough to go home, shower, change clothes. and participate in the search.

    • eric alter

      I agree. I don’t put any stock in the barn or outbuilding theory.
      The issue for locals is besides where they were at that night, and I got this straight from a family member.
      How they wound up on the other side of the creek.
      It was daylight and there were no leaves on the trees. If they were walked alive back across through the creek. It would have been out in the open. Nobody really says but I think part of that other side of the creek Issue is because the murder seen is down the hill under the bridge? Meaning they were moved back across. I figure rinsed off in the creek also.

      • Mer

        I disagree with one point, Eric. If one or both girls were killed near the bridge, then the killer would have to drag a body through the creek. It is especially hard to pull an object out of water. If they were killed in the park, it was north of the creek.

        • Lori

          I saw a good close up of BG and there were clearly goggles at the opening of his jacket, around his neck. I wonder if those type goggles are used at the meat packing plant.

          Also, Tyson is a very bad company and the animals are put through hell for profit. I have been boycotting Tyson for years! Pure evil!

        • Lotus

          There have only been 2 pictures of Bridge Guy released. Neither of them shows any goggles. Neither of them shows a puppy. Neither of them shows a gun. Neither of them shows a rope.

          The pictures DO show a white, middle-aged man wearing blue jeans, a dark blue jacket, and brownish shoes.

        • Mer

          The photos show a semiautomatic pistol in his right jacket pocket. The shape is undeniable. If you look at his jacket, you can see stress lines or folds formed by the weight of the handgun. I believe the gun is not holstered, but rather placed butt first into pocket

        • @ Mer:

          If the gun is unholstered and butt-first into the right side pocket, that might shoot down the left-handed theory. Anyone that’s ever handled a gun knows to keep the barrel pointing away from your own flesh.

          Plus, it would make for an extra exchange from the right-hand to the left-hand. A perp will want to get the gun pointed as quickly as possible.

          I’m not saying you’re wrong about the placement, but I can’t imagine that someone who seems that calm prior to a crime would be that awkward with a gun.

        • Kim

          Biker ii, is it possible he had a generous inner pocket and was making a draw from the inside of the coat? Acknowledge he’d have to unzip or reach up inside coat from waist.

        • Lotus

          No, the REAL photo does not show any gun or any outline of a gun. What you are looking at is a photoshopped photo made to look as if there is an outline of a gun. That is not real.

          Even if there were an outline in his pocket, which there is not, it could be many things other than a gun.

          Te restate:

          The photo you have been looking at is not a real photo. It is a photoshopped creation made by someone on the internet who wants to create an illusion that there is an outline of a gun in his pocket.

        • Not true at all, Lotus. ALL existing photos show that gun quite clearly. The photo on the right is exactly the real photo itself. The photo on the left is the original photo with the gun outlined in blue. But it doesn’t even need to be as you can see that obvious gun in every BG photo.

        • Lotus

          Yes, sir, you are correct. He has something in his pocket. But —

          Who would carry such a big gun while out hiking?
          Who would carry a gun in such a manner that they could end out shooting themselves in the abdomen?
          How do you know it is not something else, such as an Ipad, camera, or some such thing?

        • Dlux

          LE has confirmed BG had a gun shaped iPad in his jacket pocket and have released new audio.

          BG: “Go down the hill, to my car, so I can charge my iPad and pull up a picture of my real gun”

          For someone who thought Eric was so dumb, your comment made him look like a Rhodes Scholar.

        • Sumi

          I agree, he has a gun in his pocket. He is right-handed, he wears his fanny pack/deer kit on the right hip as well, for easy access. Otherwise, if he was left-handed, he would have to reach across his body (and the gun) to access the contents, which is awkward. (I wear fanny packs once in a blue moon, so I know it from experience. lol) I also think, that he has his hands in his pockets, especially the right one, to keep/hold the gun securely in place. You would want to use your “good” hand for such an important task, especially if the gun is not in a holster. (I feel like the gun is pointing toward us… but I am not 100%.)

          Also, the third BG picture was posted on Newton County Sheriff ‘s Facebook page on February 16. They took it down by now, but copies of it floating around on websleuths.com and on some other websites. BG is kind of in a standing position.

          I do think, LE should release a few more still frames from the video. It would be tremendously helpful with cross-referencing different identifiers and clearing up a few questions like; if he has a beard, a gun, what kind of hat he has on etc. (Despite the third image of BG being blurry and low resolution, I find it very helpful, not on its own, but when I look at all three images together…)

        • Lotus


          Your comment is as ignorant as it is moronic. First, I never wrote anything about Eric being “so dumb.” Those were YOUR words. It is extraordinarily hostile of you to lie about me and make false accusations. You are a liar, let’s leave it at that. Your hostility and ignorance harm the discussion and harm the people here, rather than enhance.

          Second, the shape of the sun shining on the Bridge Guy’s pocket is not necessarily a gun, just because you happen to think it is. It could be many things. We don’t even know if there was a gun involved in the crime.

          Third, in the photos, there are squares of sunlight shining on the Bridge Guy’s leg. Does he have a big square box in his pants’ leg? No, it is how the sunlight is hitting.

          Fourth, the photos are open to interpretation. The man might have a gun in his pocket, he might not. Carry a large gun in a jacket pocket would be a very odd way to carry a gun. The item could be many other things. I personally think I know what the object is, but choose not to state so here where there are noncollegial ignoramuses, such as yourself.

          Fifth, the photos are open to interpretation in many respects. Is he wearing a hat? Is that his hair? Is it a toupee? Is the brown square a jacket lining, a shirt, a fanny pack, or some sort of bag? Is the item near his neck a hoodie, as the police said? Or is it a scarf, or as some people have seen — a dog, a pair of goggles, etc?

          Please, refrain from coming here when you are drunk or on drugs or just feeling that you need to abuse others. Your abuse is not helpful or enjoyable. Your abuse does not make you look smart.

        • Dlux

          Thanks Lotus. I guess I am an uneducated, drunk, junkie liar. Thanks for not leaving that open to interpretation. No need to be such a Drama Queen, I just wanted to point out how dumb your iPad theory sounded.

        • Lotus

          Yes, it is Saturday evening. Reading your posts, we can only assume you get drunk or high on Saturday night and go looking for someone to abuse. I am not that person. You might consider joining Alcoholics Anonymous.

        • Dlux

          I will be in touch when I get to step 9.

  64. Kim

    I’m open minded on this also Mer. LE must have answers. Was there tire marks on the service road? Even a rowboat could have been used to transport them or bodies could have been floated across cold water. Not sure why that would be, does seem a car (even in trunk) makes more sense. Condition of bodies/clothes should tell something. FBI/LE must have the answers to these questions.

    • eric alter

      Interesting I must say.
      Let’s go back to the hat first.
      Everyone says hat, I do believe all of you including Roberto. Who claims he’s not reading my comments if I don’t make paragraphs as he instrucks.
      Hat, interesting that two people can’t agree on what kind of or color of the hat is?
      Row boats in Deer Creek… Answer is LMMFAO.
      Car under bridge also interesting like Rob telling me about water depths in Deer Creek.
      It was muddy out. The water in the creek was up a foot. Deer Creek is known for Holes and Smallmouth Bass.
      Having said that one of you will say I’m the Killer and your inteligence will be on display for all to see as it has been.
      Indiana had some rain prior to this.
      No cars under bridge ever! People from Indiana and Delphi aren’t even that stupid. Which makes me wonder even more? 4×4’s … Lmfao …
      If I showed these comments to people at JC’s in Delphi. The entire place would die laughing.
      Ya look Fuck’n stupid and we all know that stupid can’t be fixed.
      Listen to what I’m going to say. The FBI and local authorities have already identified BG.
      Most everything here is absolute Bullshit written by people that definitely don’t have a clue and may be lacking in certain areas.
      Disinformation is part of the gig.
      I’m at a loss as to how no one knows how investigations are conducted and why Rob doesn’t jump in and set the record straight.
      I’m thinking if Gays were being bashed here or there was talk of violent butt sex he would be hanging on every comment drinking a beer jacking off.
      Maybe there was a Toyota Prius under the bridge, a hybrid that can fly?
      Maybe just maybe Charles Manson dug a tunnel from California to Delphi?
      Maybe it was an alien abduction? They can even make the space ship invisible.
      Maybe Ron Logan’s son is a Molester… Even though he looks absolutely nothing at all like BG.
      I would thoroughly enjoy watching Ryan slap the shit out of anyone who would step up and say that to him in person.

      • You indeed cannot place a proper paragraph into a post. Nor can you even write a proper paragraph at any time. Making a new fake paragraph with no spacing with every sentence is not proper English at all. It’s what someone who never went to school does. You also misspell all sorts of words, even ones easily fixed with a spellchecker which you refuse to use for some damned reason. On the Datalounge site, they call you “the semi-literate poster.” The semi part is quite generous.

        But that’s not why I am writing this. I am writing this to tell you that you have been in violation of Comments Rules since the day you strolled in here, fists swinging and firing a sixshooter. That’s how you walked in the door here. That’s not what welcome guests do.

        Anyway, I kept you around even though you are a serial violator because supposedly you may have some good information about this case, so I waived the rules.

        Well I have finally had it with you, Mr. Hick. Every man has his limits. You are now banned from this site. You may appeal, but I am dubious about that because you do not seem to be able to follow rules or even control your own behavior. Which makes me wonder how you made it to adulthood. This is, I do not care how much good or lousy info you spit out of your tobacco juice-stained mouth on here. I’ve had it with you. You are out whether you contributions are valuable or not. Politeness violations trump on comment vale on here, every day.


        HAVE A NICE DAY!

        The rest of you are just going to have to do without Eric Alter’s kind and loving presence. If you got a problem with that, the door’s that-away. ——>

        Over and out.

        • Kim

          Robert, it’s clear Eric is drunk in his comment. It’s 6pm Friday and he’s having an unhappy hour. I hope that if he appeals and tries to have manners you may let him return. He is extremely insightful, although spicy. I’ve been reading mostly his comments lately, they may drive donations.

        • Nobody is donating a nickel. This is my only job at this point. I get the trust fund check, but it’s only $900. I need another $300 to make it through the month. My counseling business has all but collapsed. Not sure what is going on but I lack degrees, credentials and licenses and when you lack those things, it is hard to get clients.

          So this blogging is my job. It’s my only income at this point.

        • Mer

          Eric made some relevant points about the murder scene. From him, we may think that a vehicle south of Deer Creek would be difficult if not impossible. He also had a strong opinion about the depth of the creek, and video taken on Feb 14 shows it to be two to three feet deep.

          He had produced a video of someone he knows well–someone who sounds like the man on the bridge–someone who he thinks looks like BG. That is what LE has been begging for, an identification of BG based on the evidence they provided to the public. Furthermore, his suspect may have found the bodies, and may have left DNA on at least one body at some point.

          Kim was quite taken by Eric. But her hillbilly fantasy is now gone.

        • Kim

          Nothing like a good hillbilly fantasy; I was hoping he only has one tooth!! 🙂 🙂

      • Kim

        I haven’t read anything on the rest of Rob’s site so I wouldn’t presume to know what he jacks off too. Butt we get the thrust of what your saying Eric 🙂

        • Looking for a ban, Kim? Watch your step now.

        • Kim

          No Robert :-). No disrespect to you (was double entendre only)! I think you have done a terrific service putting this topic on your site.

          This case bothered me so much because I have the 2 new dogs and spend an hour or so daily hiking with them in the similar woods w/creek so the pics/voice of the killer really shook me up. I’m actually thinking of taking firearms training now…

          At any rate, I do feel much better after reading Eric’s comments. If true then this case will be solved shortly. Best regards to you and have a good weekend! 🙂

        • Mer

          Kim, if you are walking with 2 dogs, you will never need a gun. Have you ever fired a handgun?

      • Mer

        Eric, relax. Most of the posters here and on Topix aren’t even from Indiana. They have never been to Delphi to check out the area.

        All the readers here know you have a suspect, and a good one. I have met the guy and agree he sounds like him. He has a distinctive walk, and BG looks like he has an arthritic left knee. It could be the guy. I hope they catch whoever did this, and soon.

        Another scenario is that the crime is a series of errors.

        Let’s say that BG has a car parked on the north side of the creek. He intends to grab a girl from the trail in that area, but he sees these girls go across the bridge. He finds it irresistible and follows them, abducting them on the opposite side of the creek from his car. His car may be at the cemetery. Then he has to cross the creek with them. Something makes him nervous and he kills them quickly and returns to his car and drives away. The search is focused on the south side of the creek and they simply don’t find the bodies the first night.

        This scenario is simpler than having an accomplice, simpler than having a vehicle on the private property south of Deer Creek, simpler than having a structure to rape and kill them in. And, he F’d it all up.

        It could be your suspect. It could be a SK from who knows where.

        • Kim

          Mer’s comment about “Hillbilly Fantasy” was so funny that I hit the PayPal button for 3rd time. Seriously, I am sleeping better after hearing Eric’s very rationale psychological profile of his suspect. Complex background of shunned Amish, repression of young girls, abattoir desensitization may have come to peak in an individual’s mental break.

          Sometimes feeling that you understand what happened makes it less frightening and disturbing. The messenger is impulsive, immature, etc.; perhaps this case will be his path back. 😉 (Paypal)

        • Hey thank you so much, Kim. You are great!

  65. Bob

    Has anyone looked at RL’s son and nephew? Both are registered sex offenders and resemble BG.

    • Lotus

      Call or email it in to police.
      Email to: abbyandlibbytip@cacoshrf.com

    • Names and photos please.

    • eric alter

      That’s complete nonsense.

    • eric alter

      That’s completely false about Logan’s Son. My guess is your a sex offender.

    • Lotus

      See, this is why if you have tip, you make it to police. Send it in via email. Posting it here is not giving a tip. The police do not read this blog.

      • I would not be so sure that the police do not read this site. A detective called me because some braindead rightwing Chistian housewives in Indiana were mass reporting me as the Delphi killer. Because how else could I know all this stuff. Because I’m creepy and weird and dangerous and all sorts of other stuff they could obviously figure out just reading my prose. Detective quickly figured out that I had nothing to do with the crime. I have not left California in years and I have never been to Indiana, thank God.

        However, he definitely read my site, that’s for sure. And he knew this site up and down, forwards and backwards better than most anyone in the past 10 years. He also suspected that I was writing under an alias or pen name. He sure was smart, I will say that.

        Also early in the case, ISP at a press conference mentioned something about a blog that had a lot of theories on it. That was apparently this one. There are a lot of good tips and theories here and killers read sites like mine and even participate in them. A fellow sleuth told me that the police were monitoring all of the websites seriously discussing this case.

        • Lotus

          The main crime theory sites like Websleuths and even Topix get a lot more action and a lot more crazy theories going that this one does.

          I love that the Housewives of Indiana reported you as the killer. That makes me laugh. Hello, Ladies! He’s not a killer, he’s just a blogger.

        • Well I am a ladykiller, I admit to that. Or at least I used to be in my younger days. Like with everything else, I am slowing down in my middle age. But not the Ted Bundy kind of ladykiller, more the Giacomo variety.

      • Bob

        Lotus: I don’t have a tip. I just saw a couple of RSO’s that could possibly fit the profile of BG. I have not reported it to police because I hope to God the police checked off every RSO within a couple of days.

        • Lotus

          I say email it in and if it turns out to be the killer, you have a written record of it and you march right up and ask for your $200,000.

  66. Nietsnie


    SP quoted; “I’m disappointed that we haven’t caught the person,” Riley said. “Am I giving up? No. I still feel we’re going to catch this person or persons that we’re looking at.”

    This recently released article sounds like they have nothing to go on.


  67. Lotus

    This is my new suspect for the Bridge Guy. This man has been waving a gun around, kidnapped his neighbor and put her into a grave they are calling “a pit,” and put stuff over it. He lives about 5 hours from Delphi.

    Have at it: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4448570/Ohio-man-arrested-holding-woman-captive-pit.html

  68. Sun

    Once the dust settles here, I really hope you post another update Robert. Mer seems to be separating some of the wheat from the chaff in these comments with his expertise and local knowledge, and who knows what other info you’ve gleaned outside. It would be great to understand if/how your theories have evolved. Thank you.

    • Thanks, I have sort of been going on strike here due to lack of donations. I just had to pay $50 to fix my car and I have really another $225 in repairs that needs to be done. And I am $85 below budget.

      This is pretty much my only job right now. My counseling business has pretty much collapsed at the moment. Not sure what is going on, but I lack degrees, licenses and credentials and it’s hard to get a lot of clients if that is the case.

      I have a $400 payment coming in from a book chapter I recently authored, but I guess it’s possible that they might pay me before I die, if you catch my drift.

      I’m not healthy enough to work full-time, so I sort of have to scramble around and do whatever. Every day I wake up and think, “How am I going to get some money today?” Then I try to hustle any way I can to get some.

      • Robert I just donated another $100 — same amount that I did on 3/30 8:43PM Central time. My Paypal account is under a different email address/userid than my blog posting account. I’m sure you can make the connection.

        Keep up the good, no, GREAT work!

        • Thank you so much! Yes I recognized the name. 🙂 And it looks like you just funded a couple of new updates. 😀 Once again, thank you so much for your kindness!

  69. Lotus


    At the 12-week mark into their investigation of the slayings of two Delphi teens, police have gotten below the 1,000 mark on leads and are continuing to evaluate evidence, but have not made an arrest.

    “Some evidence testing has come back in, but not a lot of it,” Carroll County Sheriff Tobe Leazenby said in an interview May 5, adding that he could not discuss particulars about that evidence that he previously said was sent to two locations – the Indiana State Police lab and the FBI lab in Quantico, Va.

    “Some of that has afforded us the opportunity to eliminate people from the picture, but it still hasn’t provided us someone to jail,” he added.

    It was a warm spring day off from school Feb. 13 when Abigail Williams, 13, and Liberty German, 14, headed to the Monon High Bridge area to walk the trails and take photos, as they had done before. But they failed to show up to a meeting point to be picked up, and their bodies were found during a search the next day.

    • Nietsnie

      Can anyone in Delphi confirm if Satellite Link to the FBI is still in place?

      I am sure they will zip this up, especially after that gum shoe with RL photo.

      • Kim

        Nietsne, I’ve been wondering what’s the significance of the satellite link. Delphi doesn’t have DSL or needs a higher baud (transfer) rate as afforded by satellite? Implies large transfer of data, likely not for forensic evidence as that seems sparse here.

  70. Anna

    Something to consider – in the Browns Chicken massacre in Palatine IL, police were accused of withholding too much information. That case hovered near the 10 yr mark to solve (or possibly exceeded it). Keeping too much info under wraps may be hurting this investigation….very surprised more hasn’t leaked.

    Kim- I run on trails 3-4 times a week (popular here in Chicago area, esp when weather gets nice)….my boyfriend goes with me now, I am terrified. You are not alone. This case shook me up bad too.

    With 400+ comments on here, Robert should not be wondering how he will pay bills. Step up to the plate people.

    Robert- emailing now to get that alernative info (can’t dontate on line)

    ***when Delphi victims get justice- all the brilliant minds on here should turn their attention to the Lane Bryant slaying in Tinley Park IL from 2008. Very near my location…..Also horrifying and UNSOLVED! 😦

  71. Lotus

    The Brown’s Chicken case may have been “solved” by false testimony.

    The Tinley Park Lane Bryant killings were not “solved” because of the sort of police they had working the case. One avenue of inquiry that was brought up by some people, though it seemed it was never explored, was that the killer, who was called a man, might actually have been biologically a female. The police never said if there was DNA found for the killer. If there was DNA, it would tell if this was a male or female. DNA was never mentioned

    • I live close to the old Brown’s Chicken location (now a Chase Bank branch). It was an absolutely terrible crime.

      That article you posted, to me, is really written as merely a report on what the defense team is trying to accomplish, rather than any kind of truth-finding venture by a meddling reporter. 🙂

      Plenty of other articles discuss the case against Degorski, such as the one below. No one around here is searching for the “true” killers.

      • Lotus

        One good thing that came of that terrible Brown’s crime is that now almost all fast food places have surveillance cameras. The sort of people who would commit such crimes have fewer and fewer easy targets.

        I have been on wooded trails that have surveillance cameras. Some people might object to the presence of cameras. It made me feel less vulnerable.

        • Lori

          That is also how they id’d the Boston bombers! Surveillance cameras in front of many stores.

        • Lotus

          So true. Those two were identified rather quickly and surely. People in the public helped so much — the photos were shown on the internet and —
          bam — the two were identified.

      • Anna

        Agreed, they have the right “people” if you can call them that. Sub-human is better 🙂

    • paula

      the LB killings weren’t solved because most of the victims were white, the perp was black, and sadly, the black population does not participate in solving crimes that involve black men…yes, that is a generalization, but its pretty true….there were 4 black guys who shot a girl at a fast food Sonic in Arkansas several months ago…it was daytime, and they even got a description of the perps plus the car they drove…yet, to my knowledge nobody turned them in…


      as far as surveillance cameras, they do nothing but show the aftermath of crime and that is little comfort if its your teenage girl or boy that was attacked while working the late shift…

      • Lotus

        I think there are two main elements that come from the surveillance cameras in fast food and other places. The first is that the cameras act as a crime deterrent. That is what cameras do before a crime. The second is that the cameras can help identify suspects.

        While having a loved one killed is terrible and the pain never ends, it appears that knowing who committed the crime and going through a trial does bring some comfort to the family and friends of the victim.

        That’s what this whole blog thread is about — trying to encourage people to help find whoever killed these girls, to make the community safer and bring some peace of mind to the families. The families want this very much. They have said so, even begged the public for information.

      • Anna

        I firmly believe the Lane Bryant case won’t be solved because the killer jumped on I80. If you are going to kill a bunch of women in a store for basically no cash, convenient to have the interestate one traffic light away. I see race as having little to do with why police can’t crack it. He had too far of a jump on the cops. This may also help the killer in Delphi- as Indiana is the “Crossroads of America”. Too many expressways!

  72. Kim

    Post Friday from a Delphi murder facebook page with a German (family member?) co-author. The tone of it suggests the town folks think BG’s local. If so, seems the end-game is near, possibly before school lets out.

    • Hi Kim, the FB article is no longer visible. Are you about to quote/post any content from it?

      • Kim

        No problem, I just copied it below, it went up ~12 hrs ago and looks like an appeal from a family member (Derrick German?) to a local. I also join the petition to let Alter return. He’s uncouth but clearly has terrific insights and on the ground info 🙂

        Carrie Timmons with Derrick German

        12 hrs

        If it was my husband…I’d know. If it was my brother…I’d know. If it was my son, my dad, my lifelong buddy…I would know. Even before I’d heard the audio, even with the grainy and inconsistent nature of the photos…I would know it was him. I wouldn’t like it, I couldn’t bear it, I’d be sick as can be…for them, for him, for myself, for everyone…but I’d know.

        He’s scared right now. He hates himself. He tries to blame them to make himself feel justified. But you know deep down he doesn’t feel justified. He’s reeling inside. He’s disgusted. He’s ashamed. He’s terrified…for himself, and he’s terrified for you. Because he knows you know. And he knows what you have to do.

        Part of him is screaming out for you to open your eyes and see what you have refused to see. Part of him is screaming out for you to believe what you have refused to believe. He is screaming out for you to help him…to stop him…Oh God please stop him…before the inner turmoil becomes more than he can bear, before he does it again. And part of him is already devising a plan.

        Is he your husband? Is he your brother? Is he your son, your dad, your lifelong buddy? You know you know. You know what you have to do.


        • Lotus

          I think Derrick German is the father of Liberty German. She was being raised by Mike and Becky Patty, her grandparents.

        • Lotus

          And if all that righteousness doesn’t work for you, there is a $230,000 reward.

        • Hopeful

          As a member of a nearby community, I am also a member of several community Facebook groups, as well as a group for locals dedicated to sharing tips and theories related to this case. I have seen this poetic plea for information before, as early as a few days after the bodies were found. I’m not sure where it originated, but I’ve seen it and a version of it with part about the unsub having remorse edited out.

          I have daughters. One is Abby and Libby’s age. We don’t know their families, but we know people who do. That’s just the way it is here. We follow this case because we want justice for those girls, for their families and friends, and for our communities. We all want to sleep better at night, and I personally would love to be able to comfortably let my kids out of my sight again. Even a little.

          My opinion is beginning to lean toward this monster being someone who is not local (anymore) but is still familiar with the area and the trails. BG looks to be 50-60, so its possible he could have spent a lot of time on the trail in his younger years and has not had any ties to the area for many years.

          Its just my opinion, but I cannot fathom that anyone who lives in the community (who would, I assume, know the families or know someone who does like I do) would know anything and not come forward. Maybe I’m placing too much faith in humankind, but I really hope not.

          I also believe it’s possible that LE has already identified a suspect, and is just gathering enough evidence to make their move.

          A friend of mine shared a Facebook post weeks ago from a woman who claimed to have taken a video she saw on YouTube to LE in Delphi. The video shows a local RSO posing in photos with guns next to the released photos of BG. The man wasn’t named, and I believe the video has been taken down. The woman claimed that LE told her they had seen the video, and that the man in the photos had been brought to their attention already. She didn’t share many details of her conversation with LE, but she quoted something about them “dotting the i’s and crossing the t’s.” And she said she wholeheartedly believes that justice is coming.

          But that could just be me being hopeful again.

    • Kim

      There’s a new poster w/pics of the girls with it also, but it’s not copying and coming along in the paste. Only the words of Derrick German and Carrie Timmons, the posters. It’s still up, though on a private group FB page.

  73. Lotus

    Paging Robert!

    I am here to petition for the readmission of Eric Alter. I found his misspellings to be authentic Indianaisms, sort of like Olde Englysh spellings. My favorite was when he wrote that he was going to space his paragraphs as Robert “instrucks.”

    Eric A did make some astute observations as a former Delphi Denizen who no longer has a stake in the place. I found these sharings particularly useful:

    That the mud in the creek can made it shallow enough to cross on foot.

    That there could be no car under the bridge.

    That certain people do resemble the BG and others do not.

    TO ALL: Does anyone else wish to ask Robert to allow Eric to post?

    • Barbarino

      No, They ran his azz out of indiana for a reason and he just hung himself with his own rope…Now THAT was STUPID

    • Lori

      Yes i agree. It is not up to us, however. Also, not so sure Eric is right yet maybe if Eric could devil advocate himself he may be able to analyze this from a different perspective.

      • Barbarino

        We’ve already heard it and it was what it was…BS. Has anyone been arrested or identified as a result fom it? Anyone could drink some brain remover and come up with different perspectives

    • Kim

      I agree with you Lotus. It seems Alter does not have a fan club; most iconoclasts don’t.

      • Lotus

        I did not agree with naming the person he thought was guilty. I was entertained by his creative work usage and his rants. I liked his folksy view of the dark side of small town living. I guess I viewed it as literature more than fact-finding.

        • Mer

          I don’t think Eric named the guy. It was someone else. Eric’s suspect is compelling–for more reasons than his voice and appearance.
          I do think that someone could make a video like Eric’s about almost anyone, and the subject would look guilty.

    • Barbarino

      Hmm…How does he know? Was he there on that particular day? Does EA resemble the BG?

    • Nietsnie

      Let’s leave this to the FBI, enough fiction already.

    • Tracy Williams

      I do. I thought his posts were interesting.

  74. Bina

    Re-watching one of the earlier press conferences, and the police spokesman is asked if there is any threat to public safety. His response being the residents of Delphi are smart enough to figure this one out on their own. If the folks in Delphi have no reason to fear for their safety and are said to be capable of understanding this crime, WHO is Bridge Guy and WHERE is he now? Perhaps there are people in Delphi who know more about this man, but don’t care to speak with the police or deem their information as important.

    I interpret the whole thing to mean the girls were targeted, but I don’t think they were held or raped in an outbuilding at any point of this ordeal. I believe the crime occurred very quickly, less than an hour, and it is all there on the phone in audio or video form. The guy was sent there by someone high up in the drug trade or there on his own to settle an old score, and he knew the girls would be an easy target.

    There is clearly a gun holstered on his person, but that no one in the area heard any gunshots at the time of the murders is the most puzzling aspect of this crime to me. It was done very fast and discrete right after ordering the girls to go down the hill.

    • Lotus

      Why would someone “high up in the drug trade” be “sent to kill” two little girls out for a walk?

      • WebSluts

        Have you been sleuthing Delphi and the families of the girls? Meth has taken over that town and that world is always going to bring some rather unsavoury characters with it. What makes you think someone didn’t get burned and the girls became collateral damage?

        Look, there was no sexual component to this crime and people are making it out to be more than it is. This has nothing to do with MS-13 or any of those Mexican drug cartels. This is about a group of good ol’ boys set on causing harm that day. The guy was there to kill and was quick and discrete about it. I am also open to the possibility of this being a Thrill Kill but then, the police should have been concerned for everyone’s safety.

        • Lotus

          Please explain your theory. What do these girls have to do with meth or with “good old boys”? They look like nice girls from nice families.

  75. paula

    the drug boss sending a middle age out of shape paid killer to town is a crazy scenario….IF a drug lord wanted to send a message, the bodies would have been left right near the road where all could see because the whole point would be to LET EVERYONE KNOW WHO THE BOSS IS…..

  76. Sunflower

    Hi Robert: I appreciate all of your efforts and have donated to you. I hope others can do the same for you. Hopefully, this guy will be caught soon.

    • Thank you so much Sunflower! I got a lot of money with this donations request. I have enough for my two remaining bills, and I have money for next month’s bills ,and I will have enough for the two car (air conditioning service and replacement of valve cover). And I bought some food.

      Anyway, I took care of lots of necessities!

      Good show everyone!

  77. Anna

    I never found anything Eric said to be all that offensive. However, I have no idea what he was talking about in reference to the Amish. Made zero sense to me. He seems to go off topic – a lot. The only thing I deciphered is that he used to work with who he believes is BG….and BG had issues with women and a very bad temper. Also has a young girlfriend now. Oh and allegedly he found the bodies tho not confirmed. Plus, none of us is will understand the ways of rural life in Indiana and need Eric to guide us though the complexities.

    • Lotus

      I think Eric was basically writing a short novel about his life in Delphi. Someone on here compared Eric to Mark Twain. I second that notion.

  78. I donated RL. Thanks for this blog. I say the unsub is not local or LE could’ve already dotted the i’s and crossed the t’s. To take this long in such a small community, BG has to be a non-local (familiar with the area from having visited/worked there), but not a local guy.

    • Thank you so much. You all are basically hiring me. Damn problem with that though is now I have to work for you all.


      Oh well it’s good for me anyway to do this work.

  79. Mophebius

    Are Kim and Eric the same person here? Mark Twain, really? I have trouble even following what Eric says due to numerous spelling errors, lack of paragraphs, and basic sentence structure or sentence flow. You may ban me if you feel the need to, that’s fine. However, something seems very fishy between those two accounts. Particularly considering all the obviously over-the-top ego stroking and a woman defending a convicted violent woman beater on a violent murder blog. Something appears off there; that’s just being honest.

    As for the case itself, there are currently 500+ POI’s in this case according to law enforcement sources who spoke on the record. Of these 500+ currently identifiable POI’s, zero have risen to the level of suspect.

    Only Unsub on the bridge is a suspect (according to law enforcement), and he is unidentifiable as of yet. In addition, law enforcement as well as the victim’s families have renewed their plea asking anyone who thinks they might know something or suspects someone to contact the tip-line. There have been 16,000+ tips received (as of Friday) in this case, not 100,000+ tips.

    I have personally spoken with 2 people via an investigative website as well as e-mail. Both of these individuals are verifiable locals to Delphi, IN (verified via Facebook & social media). They are as familiar with this double homicide case as anyone here. They both also still reside in Delphi currently.

    They both shared with a group of us (including myself) that IB indeed has what law enforcement considers to be an “air tight” alibi during the window of time the abduction and murders occurred. He has been both forthcoming and cooperative with law enforcement including submitting DNA to investigators and is not considered among those 500+ POI’s per both local sources.

    I will concede that it’s sometimes easy to develop tunnel vision in cases such as these. Particularly when you have potentially had negative issues with someone who appears to be close to the case. I certainly no longer consider IB to be suspicious of committing these murders after my communications with these folks.

    • Hi, you are not violating Comments Rules, so of course I will not ban you. Go read the rules if you wish. It’s rather hard for approved commenters to get banned here. You really have to try hard.

    • Kim

      Mophe, it’s fine for you to state it’s not IB; I certainly hope you are more correct about this than me being EA. They say the internet is a wild place but being accused of Hillbilly fantasies and then being the hillbilly himself is getting to be a bit much!

      I’m comfortable with the mental picture that I have of this crime now, and yes, EA did contribute a lot to that. I’m convinced it’s local, as I was a month ago, so this is clearly the hands of the capable(?) local LE; hopefully they can wrap this up for these girls and other children in that community.

      And I admit that I don’t mind people who speak out and defend their theories, even if they are an unlikely messenger. I’d defend you the same way if you had any credible theory….

    • Lotus

      Hello Mophebius, I do not think Kim and Eric are the same person. For one thing, Kim can spell and knows how to form paragraphs. I think his or her interest in Eric was to encourage Eric to tell what he thought was pertinent information.

      And keep in mind, there is a Sgt. Kim Riley involved in the investigation, and that Kim is very much a man. Things are not always as they seem.

    • 500 POIs? Whatever. That’s not misinformation, it’s an example of how gullible people are to believe anything put out by anyone concerning this case. I doubt there were 500 males even remotely resembling BG within 50 miles of the bridge during the time of the abduction.

      • Mophebius

        Yes Kelswhit77, They indeed currently have 500 POI’s according to Indiana State Police Spokeswoman for Lafayette district Kim Reilly.

        My apologies for not attaching a link when I provided that information initially. It’s actually not that unusual in a case such as this. Once the family and close friends have been vetted the POI pool often broadens as it expands out into many communities.

        You don’t have to believe a word law enforcement says. That is your own determination to make if you feel that number is incorrect. That wasn’t a guess made by myself. Law enforcement are the one’s that offered that information in an interview just 4 days ago now with a local media outlet.

        Link provided:


        • Mophebius

          Correction, the spelling is Kim Riley.

          My apologies

        • VGLante

          Kim Riley is a man.

        • I understand that’s what they’re saying, but there is no way that’s even close to accurate. Also, I’m wondering if they have the full text of the ‘scary guy following us’ conversation from Libby’s cell phone. Guessing the girls probably did NOT know him or they may have used his name. Just my two cents….

  80. Kim

    Kelswhit77, the girls first instinct would be to not let such a creepy guy close the distance between them so they likely couldn’t see his face when they texted friends. Also, I don’t think young girls are as good at ID’ing older men as they are at identifying teens their own age. I doubt they could have recognized him until ~40 ft or very shortly before the ‘down the hill’ moment.

    • Major problem here Kim! If Bridge Guy is who I think he is, the girls knew him very well, or at least Abbie did. Abbie had to have known him very well. If this theory is right:


      Incredible, really.

  81. Kim

    It makes sense to me they knew him. Explains why they even went “down the hill” rather than running even in face of gun. Also, the screams likely reflected some surprise at what started 6s later.

    Also, wouldn’t surprise me this centers on the youngest girl and her young single mother. Such families are vulnerable and certainly not unnoticed by potential predators when moving to an extremely small town where others may be nosy with ill intent. I hope you have written up and submitted your scenario TODAY to LE! If correct, I hope You get the reward, although I know that isn’t what this is about. It sounds like you have a very compelling scenario…

    • Mophebius

      I agree Kelswhit77 & Kim with both of you. In sleuthing the case on a few other sites I believe that the killer(s) were local. At least within say a 30-50 mile radius. They would have spent time on these trails in the past as well as recently. Nobody walked into this area essentially blind to what was/is typical for the trail. That includes, walkers, joggers, foot traffic patterns, what to expect etc.

      I don’t believe that the girls knew their killer directly as Libby at least had the opportunity to say his/their name(s) during the period of the recording (at least the audio of the crime). If they had any recognition of the bridge suspect, even if it was say a handyman, they would have said it imo.

      In my opinion the suspect is likely late 30’s to mid 40’s. I believe the suspect would have known that these girls were going to be there that day one way or another. Thus, this unidentified bridge suspect could be connected to the girls, families, acquaintance’s or some other type of obscure connection such as social media connection even if peripheral in nature. Such as online,
      acquaintance’s stepfather, neighbors lawn guy etc. (use your imagination, possibilities are nearly endless).

      I do not believe for one second that this was a stranger(s) from outside the area. Too many things point to local, in terms of planning, knowing where to take them, familiarity of the area, appearing ease of the crime, having kill tools etc on their person(s). I could go on but that’s probably enough to get my point across.

      Most people don’t simply run around with tools used for killing people. That type of behavior is extremely careless and reckless. I’m not going to call the killer(s) genius. Yet I do believe that him/they were at least well planned and spent significant time devoted to both mental and physical​ rehearsal of this crime.

      Though law enforcement had given us this very high number of POI’S in this case. I do believe that law enforcement has a hierarchy of POI’S. In other words, I believe that law enforcement is being cautious in naming anyone a suspect who is identifiable to them. But they certainly have people who they feel more strongly of than other’s. We know the unidentified person on the bridge is a named suspect. We just have no idea yet who that person is.

      I’d love to hear more input from lurkers or locals here about what you’ve heard/suspect in the case. Robert, you’ve done a good job with this blog. You’ve also provided an opportunity for healthy sleuthing to take place, unlike many other formus. Keep up the good work everyone!

      Peace & Justice for the girls and their loved ones!

  82. Researcher

    Quarter better research was done and my two Persons of Interest were developed again passed on to law enforcement this I have not posted it for public review considering passing on to somebody enjoyed reading for your information on this page that it appears to be in detail and you have some type of investigativeBackground my experience is prior military investigator plainclothes and also manager a private investigative agencies in Miami and New Orleans and Washington DC areas

    Important note this information is being typed out by voice and not by hand and I have not went back to make Corrections so obviously there’s going to be Miss spellings thanks

  83. Holly

    How do you explain the grandfather, Mike Patty, resembling the perpetrator’s stature, facial structure, facial hair, and voice?