Issues of Consent and Outcome in Victims of Child Molestation

It is not necessarily true that all child molestation is completely nonconsensual or that the child never enjoys it. These facts are difficult for society to contemplate in our one size fits all view of the crime. I would agree that children cannot consent to sex with adults, even if they agree with it at the time, and there are a few cases where they do. It seems like most of the time, the children don’t really enjoy what’s being done to them or they are just confused. However, there are some cases where the children, often older ones, quite enjoyed the experience. I don’t think that makes it right, and it needs to be illegal whether the child enjoys it or not simply because it’s wrong. But it’s important to see that this issue is more confusing that it is usually made out to be.

I dated a woman once who had been molested at age 8 by a young man in head of a youth group at church. She had gotten over it completely. This is another difficult fact that many find hard to stomach. Not everyone is damaged permanently or in the longterm when they are molested. Now some definitely are, the long-term effects of this are serious with enough kids that we can document it in studies.

However, I have known a number of women who were molested as girls, and they all told me that they just got over it. How? They just decided that they did not want to let this ruin their lives, so they worked their way out of it. But one woman told me, “It’s hard because it feels good. The abuse feels good, but it’s wrong, and that’s hard to make sense of.” So children can find this physically pleasurable, which makes the issue even more confusing.

There are fathers who molested their daughters and seemed to be carrying on a love affair with them. It was quite clear that the daughter was definitely “in love with Daddy.” Now one could argue that even if a daughter is in love with Daddy, that still does not make child molestation correct. For one thing, society strongly disapproves.

These girls are often older, 9-12 or 10-12. However, in many cases, the girl grows up to adulthood and then has second thoughts and decides she was molested, harmed or taken advantage of. She develops a lot of psychological symptoms and is angry at the father-daughter sex.

There was a very famous series of child porn videos out there, some of the most famous ever distributed. The girl had some well-known name. The videos are named “Tracy” or whatever her name was. Of course I have not seen them. It’s illegal to even look at such a thing for even one second if you can believe that, and that stuff is almost impossible to find anyway. Right now, almost all child porn is on the Dark Net, and I would imagine there is little if any on the real Internet, so your chances of stumbling across it are almost nil.

But it appears quite a few people on the Net did view those tapes. I have seen forums where people talk about these tapes, and many of the men commenting on them do not even appear to be pedophiles. That’s quite possible, as you don’t have to be a pedophile to enjoy such material, which once again is going to be very confusing for a lot of people. Many non-pedophilic men can be aroused by such material also. However, anyone seriously collecting lots of child porn on their drive is probably a pedophile. These movies were also popular with hebephiles, as the girl may have been ~11-12 in some of the movies.

What is shocking about those movies is that the girl is reportedly enjoying herself and she is clearly quite in love with Daddy. Now that doesn’t make it right, but it’s interesting. Anyway, she became famous at some point as a child porn star, and her name was outed, so people knew about her and what she did. After she became an adult, she was ashamed of being a famous child porn star and she decided she had been molested, abused and taken advantage of and developed psychological symptoms.

Her love for her father also turned to hatred. The father was arrested at some point after the tapes were made. He was apparently not a pedophile at all. This is typically the case with familial molesters. Familial molesters are usually not pedophiles. These are called non-pedophilic molesters and they account for 92% of all molestations.

You are only diagnosed a pedophile if you mostly or only aroused by children and have little or no interest in adults. Most familial molesters are not much more aroused by little girls than the rest of us are. Instead of being pedophiles, they are best seen simply as criminals.

They are doing this for other reasons. They often have low morals and the sexual abuse occurs along with physical and psychological abuse as a general pattern of a power-hungry and controlling men who is best seen as simply a “bad person” as opposed to a sexual deviant.

Other reasons are often simply sexual. We also need to consider a common line about men a number of girlfriends have told me and that is, “Men will screw anything.” Unfortunately, this is true and even heterosexual men will have sex with other men, little girls, old ladies and gosh I don’t know, cored out melons and holes the wall I suppose. Men have their preferences, but the male sex drive is very strong and a lot of men are not too particular about which sexual object they utilize to meet their needs.

Getting back to the story about the famous child porn star, the girl’s father was a very handsome man, a bodybuilder very popular with women. He was a non-pedophilic molester. About his motivations, he said he was just in love with his daughter. Be that as it may, the court did not buy it, and he got 30 years in prison. The punishment may fit, as society is simply not ok with fathers having sex with their 10-12 year old daughters and in particular making movies out of it.

A number of men were arrested for “downloading” her videos. This is a misnomer, and downloading often just means “looked at it on a computer screen.” But many men collected her videos. About 1,500 men were found who had collected her videos and had been convicted in court over this. After the girl was an adult, she started suing the men who collected her videos. Many men were not sued at all. Instead she went after the men who had a lot of money. One man was sued for $1.5 million. I think she should have gotten money out of him, but that seems rather excessive considering the crime. And I wonder if being found guilty criminally and civilly is not double jeopardy.

At any rate, the take-home point here is that even if uncommonly children may enjoy or even consent to the molestation, it’s quite typical for them to have second feelings about it as they get older and a change of heart as this woman experienced, along with development of a lot of psychological symptoms, is quite common. So molestation is rarely if ever beneficial to children, and in many cases it is harmful even in those cases where they enjoyed it at the time because those feelings often go away as they get older.

Even in the cases I have known where women simply got over it, one would argue that nevertheless the molestation was not a good thing to have happen to them. The fact that some people can get over the bad things that happen to them does not mean that what happened to them were not bad things. Bad things are bad things whether you get over them or not.

20 Comments

Filed under Child Porn, Crime, Girls, Incest, Law, Lolitas, Pedophilia, Pornography, Psychology, Psychopathology, Sex, Social Problems, Sociology

20 responses to “Issues of Consent and Outcome in Victims of Child Molestation

  1. dandate2

    What constitutes a child? Oceanic Aboriginals get pregnant at the average age of 9. Where the average life span is 30 if one made it to 16, the adulthood consideration is quite low (all of human history).

    Only that the average life span has increased do we consider even adults to still be children, and this is all subjective. The law should stay out of the bedroom and be socially handed back to the patriarchs.

  2. Willy von Niggerstick

    LOL I think you’re talking about Vicky. She’s famed for her salty milk video in which she sucks off her dad and describes the taste when she was about 10.

  3. ROBERT Lower-class and Sexual Hothouses

    Among the poor money is scarce. A man cannot simply go to bar and buy some female real estate $300 worth of Martinis because he is a lawyer or businessman who can easily afford to. Or, failing this, just get his penis sucked by a stripper for $300 in a gentleman’s club. Or a call girl. He can take the chance of getting a BJ in the ghetto but this has all sorts of risks and money is so tight even $50 might be a stretch.

    These men are often a step-father. In their own deep past an older sister perhaps initiated them into sex. Or an adult male.

    Poor uneducated households are a sexual hothouse. Access to women is less than it is for the middle-class male or the Alpha. Additionally, there are less diversions.

    Young girls from these households or young males tend to be over-sexualized from early genital stimulation. Talk to any serial killer. There will be some episode of Mom washing his genitals because the family was too poor to take him to the hospital for his bladder infection which then turned him into a serial rapist. There is little in the way of privacy in a household with two rooms and a single toilet where the person having a shower has to smell the feces of the previous user.

    This early sexualization leads to slutty teen behavior and the rest of it.

    • okay sure

      “Talk to any serial killer.”

      Sure thing. I’ll get right on that.

      • LOL sure I talked to one just the other day. Apparently you can write these guys and there are idiots who do that. They have webpages up with the correspondence on them. The conversations are usually manipulative. I didn’t do it, I’m innocent, etc.

        • ROBERT

          I was not being literal of course.

          I’ve read Manson’s website-he is after all intelligent-and his claim that he himself did not wield a knife or pull a trigger is technically correct.

          My point being that molestation of male serial killers is fairly commonplace in all of the male homosexual ones and most others. Without exception. Manson was apparently raped in prison and in juvenile reformatories. They all have been.

          It is one of the many things that has to go wrong to create a serial killer.

          And for that matter female serial killer have invariably been molested.

          We were going to get an Aileen Wuornos eventually. There have probably been other prostitutes who killed men serially that were never caught. Dozens perhaps. They would all have Aileen’s profile: the sexual abuse, adult exploitation, Lesbianism, antipathy to males.

        • ROBERT LINDSEY

          One graphic point. I once was talking to a reformed crack whore turned landlady (She later got back on the crack cocaine and sold her building and went to jail for welfare fraud).

          She explained to me that sucking men’s penises was almost an inborn female instinct, like babies sucking a nipple.

          Now my relationship with her was one of friendly acquaintance. Platonic.

          But that was her point.

        • It would be nice if they genetically selected for something like that.

      • You don’t have, most serial killers will tell the same story. They were all psychopaths to begin with but early sexual abuse probably triggered their deviant and homicidal pattern of crimes.

        Child abuse and sexual abuse of children is going to occur more often in lower to lower-middle-class environments because in upper middle-class neighborhoods the local surgeon or judge just does not have the time or the desire to get drunk and molest his neighbor.

        Stepfathers-that common cause of female molestation-are also less omnipresent in upper middle-class geographies or households, particularly the sort of alcoholic ones that will molest children.

        Abuse, sexual or otherwise, is frequently more common in lower middle-class or sub low-class geographies where women’s reproductive behavior mirrors a dog or cat’s.

  4. ROBERT Sex with Older Women

    What’s wrong with it? I have done it. Women’s vaginas can maintain a state of lubrication far into middle age, old age even. Old women, after a lifetime of orgasms, don’t care why a man is sticking his shaft into them. They simply like it.

    I do not see what is wrong with consensual sex with a 60 or 70 year old female.

    Plus semen itself does not gross them out. Women kind of get used to semen in their mouths or bodies after a certain age where as young women are disgusted at first.

  5. Lotus

    Robert, this is a great little essay and you have certainly written with honesty. People often have confused feelings and attractions. Sex between an adult and a child is always an inappropriate act, even if the child seems to enjoy it or accepts it and even if the child initiates it. It is the role of the adult to just say no and to create a healthier distance and way of relating. The Daddy-Daughter scenarios are famous, but not exclusive. There has long been the cliche of the priest or minister or youth minister using the altar boys for sex. In recent years, there has been a whole spate of attractive female schoolteachers having sex with their boy students. There are also plenty of stories of male or female coaches getting involved with a same sex athlete.

    It’s about being able to be in proximity with young people over whom you have power and to be worthy of the trust placed in you. It is never acceptable for the parent, step parent, grandparent, uncle or aunt, teacher, scout leader, coach, camp counselor — or anyone else — to engage in any kind of sexuality with any child or teen. These rules need to be very clear-cut and simple so that when an adult is in a situation that seems murky and tempting, where it seems like having secret activities and special friendships with someone under age 18 – that the adult can just say no.

    When these stories crop up of female teachers having sex with their male students, I wonder why they would be willing to risk their careers, their jobs, and often their husband and children – their whole lives — to screw some teenage boy. These women could find someone aged 18 or 19, have the same kind of thrill, and not risk prison.

    I think teacher training and training for these other types of work or volunteer positions should include very matter-of-fact training in how to say no and how to create a professional distance between the adult and the children or teens. When I have suggested this to teachers, they become all moralistic, insisting that “everyone” knows these things and that those that cross the line are just bad people. I don’t think that is true, but even if it were, then all the more reason to give these latent “bad people” a set of tools that will kick in on autopilot when temptation arises.

    • Thanks.

      Are you male or female? Guessing female by the name?

      What about situations where the Age of Consent has lowered to 16 as in many places in the US? What about Romeo and Juliet clauses that allow this sort of thing up into young adulthood in some cases?

      To me, teens and adults and little kids and adults are two different things. Little kids and adults just seems pure messed up all the way. I would imagine there are few if any cases of the child initiating the activity because they have no real sex drive. Hence the need for grooming etc. The damage seems pretty serious in many cases.

      Teens on the other hand are a whole other ballgame. The sex drive in males and females comes on like a freight train at age 13, and teenage boys and even teenage girls are as horny as grown men and women. I have now read of many cases of adults taking advantage of teenage girls by what looks like “grooming” behavior, but I do not like to use that word because that applies to little girls. Anyway in a lot of cases, men did pursue these girls as easy targets and took advantage of them.

      However in my life I am most familiar with cases where teenage girls came onto the men, asked them out, asked them for their number, seduced them or even openly propositioned them. Teenage girls have a high sex drive, so we might expect them to do such things, and girls don’t just like teenage boys. Quite a few of them like men too, especially the older ones. I doubt if girls are harmed in most of these cases, in particular where they initiate the activity. However, where the man takes advantage of them, there may be some harm.

      What we are dealing with here is a Societal Taboo. Society has decided that they don’t want adults having sex with teens below the age of consent, excepting Romeo and Juliet clauses. There are no severe penalties for violating this taboo. At my age, I have sex with a 16 yr old girl here in California, and I am looking at probably 10 years. You’d have to be out of your mind to risk that for some young tail.

      I have little sympathy for these men, as I regard them as idiots. Men need to control themselves.

      I haven’t touched an underage girl since age 21, but that was back in the 1970’s, and things were very different back then. No one much cared about this, and 18-21 year old men dated jailbaits (JB’s) in epidemic numbers. Now things have changed completely. If I can control myself, other men can too.

      I worked as a teacher for years. Yes, teenage girls come onto their teachers. They did to me anyway. A lot of it is just innocent flirtation, and I don’t think they want actually want to have sex. They’re just messing with the teacher and getting off on the flirtation and attention. But sometimes they openly proposition you, ask you out, ask you for your phone number, etc. All these things happened to me. I turned them all down.

      We do need to have classes about this stuff in teacher training programs. This business about teachers having sex with students is out of hand.

  6. Jason Y

    According to Trash, the molestation is creating female psychos, porn stars, and strippers and I have to say he’s probably right. So perhaps it’s not something we should ignore – and believe me – the cops are not.

  7. JASON Y

    Molestation creates recklessly promiscuous teenage girls who are much more likely to become pregnant over and over again out of wedlock.

    Economics-both of sex and money-create sex industries. I have no feeling good or bad about them.

    I do not believe Orthodox Jews in Yarmulkes are intentionally trying to degrade the morals of other North Americans through the production of pornography. Many will want to sell this-or did-because of the proceeds.

    What drives the sexual behavior of the white underclass is male deviancy. This does in effect, trigger promiscuity among females because their genitals were stimulated early and thus oversexualized them.

  8. Porn & Philippines Law

    Make a porn film with foreign women in the Philippines and you’ll do a year in jail before your Embassy gets you out.

    Make a porn film with adult Filipino women, you’ll do 5 years.

    Make a porn film with underage Filipinos, you’ll go under the jail.

    Buy a porn film in a kiosk and no trouble.

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