Delphi Murders Update March 16: One Sleuth’s Theorizing on the Delphi Murders

Most of the red hot discussion about this case has moved over to the private password-protected threads. On this forum you can discuss people’s full names, addresses, phone numbers, you name it – you can accuse anyone of anything, and you don’t have to worry about the threat of a defamation or libel lawsuit. Furthermore, the forum is rigorously policed to keep out trolls, spies, and other disruptors. None of your comments will appear on Internet search engines – you can say anything you want under any name you want without leaving a permanent record on the Net.

A vast amount of mostly unreleased photos, videos and data is stored and discussed here. Much of this information is highly pertinent to the case, but we have not released it on the open Net yet due to fears that we might harm the investigation. All of our material is turned over to LE, and my understanding is that LE monitor the private forum. At this moment, we have ~150 Websleuths working on the case.

Instructions for joining those threads are here.

Note to commenters: Please stop referring to Unsub as a pedophile. He may well be one, but that’s something that can be determined from this crime as it was not a pedophilic offense. Instead, this was a hebephilic offense. And the perpetrator could certainly be seen as a hebephile, although he’s not necessarily one. If you want to refer to the nature of the offense, use the word hebephilic instead of pedophilic. If you wish to refer to Unsub’s paraphilia, please refer to him as a hebephile and not a pedophile.

Thank you so much for this. I am getting tired of words being misused. And now we are being scientific on the board.

Note 2 to commenters: I am really getting sick and tired of saying this, but most of the material below is made up of rumors and my own opinions and theories. None of that is represented as fact. The only thing that is represented as fact as statements sourced from LE or the media.

And incidentally, the way I wrote up the case is precisely how detectives work a case. Detectives do not work cases using the scientific method. If they did, they would hardly solve one case. It’s more “We believe this for now…this is true for now…at the moment, this is what we think happened…we believe…” They are throwing out endless theories about what really happened and accepting them as (temporary) facts. They are then continuously revising and throwing out theories and creating new ones.

Being  a detective is about being wrong. Not just once, but being wrong over and over so many times your head will want to come off. If you can’t handle being wrong, then detective work is surely not for you. Finally detectives arrive at enough information to file a case against someone, but a lot of that is not factual either. They believe he did the crime. They believe that this, that, or the other happened with no way to really prove it – it’s just what they conjecture.

If he is convicted, then the theory that he did the crime is validated as fact, but I am not sure what other evidence is. And even court decisions are not scientific fact because they get overturned all the time. There are not a whole lot of 100% certain, clear scientific facts in LE work, detective work on the judicial system itself. A good portion of the decisions made turn out to be theories, temporary but unstable facts, beliefs, hunches and guesswork, all represented as fact in the court.

If you have issues with theories, opinions and what not, just quit reading and get the Hell off my site right now and never come back. I am really getting sick and tired of this BS.

If you have not heard of the Delphi murders, Google them. They are indeed as the commenter suggests the biggest homicides in the nation right now. And this case has grabbed me too just like this commenter. I actually don’t get interested in every homicide that comes around and I’ve been out of the crime and sleuthing loop for a while now. But there was something about this case – God knows what it is, that just grabbed me right there and affected me the way many similar cases have not.

I get comments like this and also emails and even phone calls along these lines quite often nowadays. This guy has had the best take so far. Not endorsing anything he says below except where he and I obviously agree, but I think you might find this enlightening reading.

Very interesting work you’ve done on this case Robert to try and get the truth of what really happened to the girls. It’s very hard to do, as rumors start to make things inconsistent, but I’ve always found that if enough credible people are talking – there will be no doubt a lot of truth to them.

I think firstly we have to assume this crime was “sexual” in nature, so the killer was both a pedophile and a killer. He likely also was a “sadist” and got a sexual thrill out of physically harming someone – that turns him on.

This killer is a sociopath or psychopath – really both one in the same. A sociopath doesn’t really feel any emotions – does not feel sadness or happiness, as he stays the same all the time. I’m sure in your practice you must deal with these type of people and may agree with me. I’ll give you my take on this killer(s). As you say there may be 2, or maybe only 1.

One thing I found very interesting and I read this today on a Sleuth forum, is that Abby only lived 1/8 of a mile from the bridge. That’s only about 6-7 city blocks – “that’s very close.” I’m sure some man could have seen her around and was watching her habits. Also Abby and her mom only moved to this area from Michigan about 1.5 years ago.

Also Abby liked to camp and I have a picture of her fishing, and it could be from the creek or river, as the bridge is in the background. If indeed she does live that close, I’m sure men like Ron Logan – “property owner” may have seen her around. I think her living so close by is “very significant”- my source – “Websleuths,” and this poster also posted the picture of Abby fishing. Apparently she and Libby frequented this area quite often??? I don’t know.

1) from looking at this “suspect’s” picture – walking on the bridge, I’d put his age at about 38 to 42 years old. You have him at 60, but his face actually looks a lot younger. You can tell by skin texture, and I’m good at sizing up age. I will add, the photo is a little blurry though – so hard to get a real good look at his face. I’ll refer to suspect as BG – “bridge guy.” I think BG’s height is around 5′ 9 to 5′ 10 inches tall, with a heavy-set build, his weight is around 190 to 210 lbs., and he looks very strong.

One thing I noted – he walks with a “duck walk” – if you notice his “right foot” plant in one of the pictures, his toes are pointed outside on about a 45 degree angle. Most people walk with their toes pointed straight ahead. I would say only about 4% of the population walks like that. With the picture being so blurry of his face, they should look at “body language” and study his gait and how he walks. I’m sure he has a “duck walk.”

Suspect’s (BG) Education- I’d say he’s likely has a Grade 11 or 12 education and maybe also a tradesman (electrician, plumber, etc.) I also think it’s quite likely he’s a truck driver or a delivery man, makes trips to the Delphi area quite often and knows people there cause of work.

I also think he’s not that smart!!! To leave something like a cell phone on the body of the person you just killed is pretty stupid. A smart person would know that young girls love their phones and love taking pictures. It’s also possible that Libby chucked it in the bush to not let him find it??? Be interesting to know where the phone was found???

There is a good chance this Killer is from out of state, as it would be far to risky in a small town to do something like this where everyone knows you.

Other things about BG – he looks like he’s disguising himself, walking with a mission, and has a deadly look in his eyes. This tells me he’s come prepared and knew the girls would be there. I think someone in the area told him this, or he obtained this thru social media and planned a meeting with the girls (I think social media – “good bet”).

General Personality – looks very meticulous – plans everything ahead of time, as this wasn’t done at the spur of the moment. His jeans look washed and pressed, and his dress looks “all in order.” If he’s a trades guy, I would bet all his tools are “clean” and organized. I don’t think he’s ever been married but may at one time and quite likely still does live with a parent, like a mother who washes his clothes etc. – “very possible.”

Pedophiles are not interested in adult women at all – they “like girls” – not women and get quite excited when around young kids. I know 2 pedos thru my work and got to know them and found out a little about their backgrounds. Both of these guys came from an “unstable or weird” family upbringing, and both didn’t like one of the parents at all. I did not know they were pedos when I met them.

This guy is definitely not a homeless guy – “forget it” – he works and is probably quite a good reliable worker. He could be liked or at least get along with his fellow workers. He looks and dresses like a truck driver, and most of these guys that sit behind a wheel all day “have quite a gut” – so I would say he’s about 30 lbs overweight – around 190 to 200 lbs and strong.

He’d have to be very strong if Robert is right about moving the girls across the creek – right??? Robert thinks the suspect is 60 yrs old??? How many 60 year old’s could lift and carry a 170 to 180 lb Libby thru water and over rough terrain? Most guys I know that age are looking to get hip or knee replacements, and some I know walk with a cane.

If there were 2 guys, I could see them moving Libby – just 1 – 60 years old??? I have my doubts. I do think there are some 50-60 year old men who keep in great shape who would have the kind of strength required to move the girls (very few, and ones that I know work out with weights and are very strong).

Moving Abbie – “not that hard” as she would weigh from 100 to 120 lbs judging by her photo. So, was there one killer or 2??? Judging from police reports and what Robert has said, there may have been 2 men (one was spotted – “all in black”) by trail hikers and probably worked in unison with BG (bridge suspect).

If there was only (1) killer, he definitely “was not very bright.” Can you imagine a guy wading thru a creek carrying a lifeless limp body over his shoulder?? You’d have to be crazy to put yourself at that kind of risk of someone seeing you. Also to do this crime in the middle of the day on a popular hiking trail makes me wonder how bright these guy(s) are – “not to bright” – IMO

Suspects – and things that bother me:

1) Jimmy Duvall – according to a person on Reddit that seems very genuine, he has not missed (1) day at work in 3 years at the Chrysler Auto plant where he works. Apparently he phoned in sick and was away from February 12 to Feb 15-th, and this poster says he’s not come back yet. He was taken right from work to give a DNA sample and then took off.

Robert says he’s at home??? But is he really??? How does anyone know for sure unless you work with law enforcement (you don’t). Just like Robert said awhile ago – one girl was found nude and the other clothed – so he is getting “false information” as well. This Duvall could be at home and could be innocent though.

Hopefully FBI have DNA – and they tested him, but it would take 2-3 weeks to get those results back. I’d say he’s still in the mix. This guy is a pedophile and a violent one as his past “convictions” prove.

2) Ron Logan – although he’s 75 yrs old and was the property owner where the girls were found – there is something very troubling about him in my mind. I don’t think he directly killed the girls. Could he have given information to someone who frequents his property. Remember Abby only lives 1/8 mile away (6 blocks) and may have played on Logan’s property.

I read the state order – he was arrested for violating probation and with “no bail option” – I find this very odd and perplexing??? You would think FBI, police, etc. would not all of a sudden call Ron Logan on this at the time of one of the nation’s biggest murders. This would scar him for life.

Why didn’t they arrest him a long time ago when he violated probation, or why not wait till the dust settles down in this case? He wasn’t going to go anywhere. I believe they will keep him detained, and I believe he may know something very important, so that’s why they’re keeping him in jail with “no bail” rights.

If he has been released (which I doubt), then I guess police are satisfied he’s totally innocent – “and he could be.”

Other Possible – Justin Wildey – 40 yrs. old – he’s wanted right now for child molestation – saw his poster. He’s from Indiana – weighs 220 lbs and is 6’3, so he’s mighty big and strong and would be capable of carrying the girls, and he’s also a pedophile. He works as a mover and may have been with the company that moved Abby’s family from Michigan to Delphi, Indiana. Some sleuther posters say this is very possible.

In Summary – I’m sure the FBI and police have a lot more suspects than what I have listed, and I believe their expertise is second to none, and they are going to give themselves the greatest opportunity to catch this monster or 2 killers that are on the loose.

Forensics has come a long long way in the last 30 years or so, and even a little fabric, or hair, shoe print, anything, can be identified, and I’m sure they are going all-out and exhausting every possible lead they get. It’s my hope that these cruel, cowardly monsters that pick on little girls are caught before they take another life.

I thank Robert for his insight into this case and also for his great site.

For some reason this case “really grabbed me,” and I want the guy(s)caught soon as possible, and who knows – they may be tracking him down right now. Not many cases where they have voice and a picture.

It’s only a matter of time on this case!!!


Filed under Crime, Criminology, Mental Illness, Midwest, Pedophilia, Personality Disorders, Psychology, Psychopathology, Regional, Serial Killers, Sex, Sociology, Sociopathy, USA

152 responses to “Delphi Murders Update March 16: One Sleuth’s Theorizing on the Delphi Murders

  1. As far as the “duck walk” it appears that there are many holes and gaps in the track on Monon High Bridge by watching videos, so looks like you have to move your feet however they must be moved to accommodate those open spaces to keep from falling through them. So it is possible the killer may have just been avoiding these holes…….would certainly help to see him walking if they have it. This case has really gripped me as well, probably because it was a combo of being 2 girls, they were killed at a young age and being the day before Valentines Day. This sob is a monster and must be put to death as soon as possible !

    • I suppose my reaction for the most part has been one of being dumbfounded even more than outraged. Like, why the Hell would anyone do such a thing? What the Hell is your major problem, dude?

      I just don’t get men who want to do this stuff. I will never understand them and I work in mental health. And yeah I have psychopaths or at least pre-psychopaths in my job. I didn’t understand them either. They don’t make sense to me.

      I mean I’m not sure what I would want to do with a 13 and 14 girl. Maybe talk to her? But you can hardly even do that around here anymore. Look at her? Not even much really. Have sex with her? Sure, a long time ago, but now, forget it.

      Beat her to a bloody unrecognizable pulp and then slit her throat with a knife? Are you kidding? Why in the Hell would I OR ANYONE want to do such a thing?

      These guys don’t make sense.

    • Look closely at the pictuers and you will see the suspect is covering the left side of his face with his left hand. Also, he looks like he might have sunglsses/safety glasses hanging around his neck. Possibly wearing a bucket or military style pile hat????

      I believe law enforcement is working with a photo that is cleaner than the one released to the public. Could the original possibly show a 2nd suspect?

      One has to remember a weapon was probably in the process of being drawn in the photo where he turned towards the girls.

      • Mer

        I don’t see that. His left hand is in his pant pocket in both photos. He is wearing a dark blue or black jacket which is too big for him. It is closed with buttons, so any zipper on it may not be working. He has something under the jacket which appears as a curved, light line under his chin. LE has said he disguised himself with a scarf. In the photo where his left leg is swinging forward you can see a sunlight reflection on his jean leg. It has a curious, narrow horizontal shadow which looks to be created by something from his fanny pack–either a strap or something sticking out of the fanny pack.

        • Find an enlarged picture like on You can see clearly four fingers just to the left of his nose. Yes, he is disguising his face. There isn’t any question…. I believe what LE says is a ‘scarf’ is his left hand over covering his face.

          He could have been trying to hide his identity to the last possible moment because the girls might have recognized him????

        • Lotus

          Ken, there are 2 photos that were distributed by Law Enforcement. Both of them show the man with both of his hands either in his pockets or down at his sides. There are no fingers near his nose or face. Perhaps you are looking at a photo that some internet sleuth created.

        • Lotus, I respectfully disagree with the notion his left hand is in his pocket. Until you are willing to look at the enlarged photo of the police released photo, you will continue to miss the evidence that is literally right in front of the suspect’s face.

          Have you taken the time to visit the photos at

        • This enlarged photo is the one Libby took of Abby crossing the bridge. It is what I believe is one, probably two vehicles, possibly three that are parked near the creek.

          What we don’t know is if the vehicle(s) are part of the murder investigation.

          There is a dark colored, some are saying a Mustang, but I’m not sure what it is. The second ‘might’ be a Jeep/Pickup Truck facing the camera at about a 3/4 angle.

          There is another vehicle, I believe in the background. It is a white/light colored vehicle. It looks like the tail light is visible and the license plate (unreadable) is shown. There “MIGHT” be another man just to the right of the rear of the vehicle, blocking the right taillight. Looks like he might be walking. I stress the image of a possible man is just a guess, but I can make out what looks like his head, an outstretched arm, possibly his torso, and his left leg. The other leg is cropped out of this shot.

          If you look at Libby’s photo, the dark sedan is visible. The white/light colored vehicle is there, but you have to look very closely.

        • Ken can you use a graphics tool to circle or draw silhouettes around these things?

      • OK, I’ll revise my thinking. He still has his hand up covering his face…partially.

        I’m new at this crap, so I hope this comes out…

        • I’m learning a little more about Paint, so I am starting to see a little more of these photos.

          I will not disclose here a very interesting hypothesis I’m developing about what went down.

          I will say, I think everything said on all boards are totally wrong. People need to enlarge those photos and really, really, really study them very hard. I’ve enlarged. I’ve inverted colors. I shrank the photos. I flipped them. I’ve changed angles. What I found, if I am correct, will blow people’s minds. I’ve looked at these photos till my eyes have turned red.
          Of course, I could be wrong.

          I have changed my opinion based on different information that has come to light in MY search. I will say, I think there are two or more individuals who should be considered suspects. I don’t know names.

          If people’s opinions are that one person done this, I think they will be surprised.

          Ask yourself one question: What could have made Libby get her phone out and start recording this incident? Would a guy walking fast on the bridge be enough to alarm her into filming him? The more I thought about that question, I began to question the validity.

          What if there was something unique, totally unexpected happening on that bridge? Would that be a more likely reason for Libby to film what was happening?

          One more thing I will add and then I will stop. I’ve mentioned before that there aren’t any shadows of the suspect, except for what people say is a black shadow of his jacket. Why would there be a shadow of his jacket, but no other shadows of the suspect’s body on the bridge? You really need to rethink if that is your opinion.

          You are more than welcome to visit my page. I have more there. You will have to search for the pictures and or comments. I don’t have a page just for the murders.

          If you do visit, I will tell you that I demand respect and courtesy. Any name calling or disrespect to me or anyone else will not be tolerated.

          Thank you. Thank you very much.

    • Robert Lindsey, I’m about as computer literate as one is. Oh, how, I would love to be able to highlight the many possible clues in these photos. My experience comes from examining late 1880 documents for my family history research.

      If what I think is there, we have two maybe three vehicles. Assuming that, there are at least two, maybe more suspects. That leads me go the possibility of this involving a larger investigation. Go back to some of the FBI’s initial statements of the director of the FBI being briefed twice. Why would the director have such an interest?

      I’m hoping someone with more knowledge can help out. I see it, but it is frustrating not to be able to share to get other’s opinons/input.

      • I’m not saying these are fact. A higher resolution is needed to verify this photo.

        To be honest, I can’t even remember where I found this photo, just to be clear, I did not enlarge them. Someone else did.

    • Check this out, let me know what you think.

      My scribbling is ‘Car’ ‘Car’ ‘Person’

      • TJP

        I think what you are seeing here is matrixing. It very common for our brains to determine pictures, objects, faces from the shapes we see. The only true way to confirm this is to go out there and take new photos. I do find it odd that no one talks about the rope hanging out of the front of his coat at the neck line. I also don’t hear many people mention the gun holstered on his right side (left in pic). The glare that appears to be a watch on his right hand and the position of the gun leads me to believe he’s left handed. I too want this person caught and destroyed.

    • There is a man in custody in Kansas that attempted to abduct a couple at a remote trail head near Albuquerque, NM. This person attempted to force a young couple into his trunk by brandishing a gun and shovel. He is accused of killing his girlfriend, a lady in a Church, and shooting 3 other people.
      In one mug shot which is full length he appears shoeless and with only 1 sock on. His feet very obviously look like they are heading out, could look like duck foot posture. This was called into the FBI top line 3/1 & 3/2/17.
      The murder of his girlfriend and the lady in the Church was in Mississippi, supposedly a few days earlier. So he is accused of committing crimes in at least 3 states.

  2. Well I was hoping to get to Delphi myself since police don’t seem to have any info about this guy….. I’m a hunter, and tracking clues through the woods is what I can do best. But now there have been so many people down there stomping around that there is no chance of finding any tracks the killer may have left on his way out. Only hope I can see in those woods now is if he maybe dropped, forgot or lost something somewhere that hasn’t been found, but most likely he kept everything in his little fanny pack and lost nothing. Still might get there anyway to film some HD video throughout the areas that I can access.

  3. Rich_M

    A poster on a sleuthing forum who did take the drive to Delphi offered many photographs of the crime scene areas. She also indicated that the back of the cemetery dips down and a car may not be visible from the main road if parked back there. My belief all along is that he parked in or behind the cemetery so the dip in the road only adds to the likelihood of that.

    If you were to go there and search around, I would be looking very intently near the rear of the cemetery and along the path that has been worn in that leads to the bridge area.

  4. Mer

    I think it would be difficult to make any assumptions about his gait from the photos. He is walking on railroad tracks and has to be careful with his feet. I don’t think he would have moved the girls across Deer Creek. It’s not a shallow brook that you can wade across. I’m familiar with Deer Creek where it crosses In29 east of there, and I would guess that it’s about 12 to 15 feet wide at Delphi and 6 feet deep, probably with pretty steep muddy banks. We’ve had a fair amount of rain this winter, and there is very little chance he would cross. The question I have is where is that mustang parked? Is it north or south of the creek?

  5. Debra

    It was eerie reading your profile. I could have written it myself; my line of thinking followed yours almost point for point. This case has kept my attention more so than most recently. It is heartbreaking, and as a Mom, I could not even imagine the nightmare this family carries in their hearts every day. He must be found and stopped, because I don’t believe this will be the last of it, if he isn’t caught. I also think they need to revisit the case in Iowa.

  6. Julie Gerber

    Please tell me how Justin Wildey had become a suspect? I am very curious because the FBI and everyone else has been very tight lipped about the details of this case.

    • Apparently a convicted child molester who is on the Sex Offender Registry.

    • Garry Palin

      I wouldn’t say Justin Wildey is a suspect, but he is on the run from LE, is a pedophile, and lives in Indianapolis. He’s another possibility, and I’m sure the FBI are looking at “all possible suspects”-including him.

  7. Ricita

    The Ron Logan probation violation thing is really bothering me too! It makes absolutely no sense whatsoever! Didn’t they initially clear him? And then, boom, he’s arrested on a probation violation? This whole situation is so “off”. It leaves me with so many unanswered questions.

  8. I read that he was wearing a brown hoodie. If that is accurate it might be a Cleveland Brown’s sports hoodie. He could be from the Cleveland area.

  9. I have always had a problem with RL it was something he said in a tv interview

  10. Garry Palin

    I think he definitely has a “duck walk,” and I understand he was walking on rotten rail ties etc, so his right foot plant may have been altered. If you look at the guy’s “left leg” in motion, you can see his leg is also not properly aimed straight on, and his final plant will be with toes pointed outside.

    These people’s bones do not develop as normal from a young age and are somewhat twisted. When this guy is caught – you will see he has a duck walk, and I think Police should be looking for this – “narrows down hunt.”

    On Ron Logan-property owner – “there is something not right there” – I agree with comment above by Ricita. The FBI are not dummies, and are not holding this guy “without bail” for no reason at all. They believe he knows something and or transferred information to his son, or possibly the suspect.

    It was very convenient he was away out of town for a week. With all this being said, it could all be just a coincidence, but if it were, I do not think law enforcement would hold a 75 yr old man for this minor charge. I think something is amiss – and there is more to it. We will see !!!

    PS – Even major crimes, a “bail amount” is offered – not Ron Logan though? It is my understanding they can hold him 2 months or so til a trial comes up, and that is ridiculous for a crime of violating probation rules – that originated from a DUI ( drinking under the influence).

    Something is not right here. The FBI wants to drag any information they can from him – and will do so. BTW – if he is out now – which I doubt, then I guess they cleared him.

  11. Ricita

    Has anyone seen anything about the Colorado Springs killings?

  12. Dr.Watson

    If I had to put money on someone, it would be this sex offender:

    I think he looks like the guy in the photo, inasmuch as anyone can look like the guy in the photo. The hat would cover the baldingness.

  13. Bullethead

    Disturbing to say the least. Few observations:
    1. Pic of bridge guy (Killer #1) walking upright. Bottom left of pic is small sliver that appears to be bottom corner of a full length black leather coat (Killer #2).
    2. Why would the girls wait the whole time for Killer #1 to walk across the entire bridge? This had to be prearranged.
    3. Abby and Killer #2 must have been preoccupied for Libby to be able to take pics unnoticed. When Killer #1 got close, Libby sensed something was wrong, but up until that point, they sure seemed to be waiting for him.
    4. Pic on bridge of Killer #1 upright. Front of left thigh appears to be roll of white shop towels hanging in a plastic bag with a hunters knife attached at top of bag. Big plastic bag hanging on his backside with maybe a couple of cans inside. Gun obvious on right side. This was no chance encounter. This guy came well prepared to kill, clean up the mess, and take any evidence, such as used towels, out with him. That’s why the closeness to the river to enable him to wash the blood off.
    5. Pic of Abby walking on the bridge. Look at hair. She spent some time putting it up. On the right side of her face, notice the ringlets of curled hair. Is this standard hiking attire? I would be strongly searching and checking with kids at school to see who Abby may have been seeing. Possibly an older guy as in black leather Killer #2.
    6. Who says a 60 yr old can’t carry a body across a creek? I’m over 65 and very capable of heavy lifting. But why carry a body across? I would think it would be easier to drag a body across the creek.
    7. I really think these guys are a couple of puny gutless wonders. They have to prey on young defenseless girls because they can’t handle anything else. Like I said, I’m over 65. Why not pick on somebody your own size boys? Anytime. Anyplace. Bare fisted. No LE and no audience. Of course you’d be way out of your league but I’d really like to see you try perverts.
    8. And as far as when they do catch them, I think it’s time for a strong message to be sent. An eye for an eye.

    • April

      Nicely written 🙌🏻 #4 I feel something is there in the inside of his leg too!

    • I do not believe there is more than one killer. The guy is a sociopathic predator. These people don’t recruit teammates. He is a loner and most likely drives a truck. I believe he is long gone from the area and has drastically changed his appearance and clothing style. But I do believe he is associated with the area in some way because he knew of the trail. Maybe the area is a sort of hub for a trucking firm? I do not know. And he could also be a self-employed trucker.

      I also believe he was waiting for the girls and perhaps “catfished” them as so many others have suggested. I don’t think their meeting was at all random. He looks to be walking with a purpose, and he was walking quickly. He’s looking down of course because the bridge is in shambles, but he’s also hunched in, and I think that is to keep the girls from recognizing him as an older man until he was very close to them, thus not running off. Too late by the time they realized it.

      And I think he held them at gunpoint for compliance. Either that, or one was quickly grabbed and the other didn’t want to abandon her as has been suggested. I think he has shaved his head and begun wearing glasses.

      I think he is paranoid as hell because the photo of him flipped him out. He was very much caught off guard with that. He thinks he’s smarter than everyone else, definitely smarter than LE because they haven’t caught him yet for other such offenses.

      Libby and Abby weren’t his first. Like I said, I think his “outdoorsy” look has changed and his manner of dress is now the complete opposite. Think flannel shirt and jeans to pressed khaki and an oxford weave button-down. But that might make him stick out because he still drives a truck and speaks in a very unrefined manner.

      I believe he either lives alone, lives with an elderly parent or lives with a spouse who is either “not all there” or lives in denial of his creepy tendencies. A very mousy woman who is used to his long absences. I think people shun him because of his creep factor. I do not think he fits in well with others like, for example, BTK.

      I think interpersonally, he’s a total loser. He doesn’t know how to or desire to form peer relationships. Because it’s unlikely that the thrill of just killing the girls was his motivation, I believe there was sexual violence involved. That’s nothing new.

      I’ve heard twice now that Libby was quickly murdered but that Abby died the following day from hypothermia. That doesn’t make sense to me, partly because it was a winter warm spell at the time. However, if they were forced to cross the creek, she could have fallen and been soaking wet, leading to that cause of death. But I think she was murdered, as well. Also, I don’t believe rumors about neck scarves at their funerals because their throats were cut. I think blunt force trauma head wounds caused their deaths.

      • Schwartzedeutsche

        Your assessment is very good. I have read three articles written on here and the comments beneath. Yours is straight to the point and using the facts given. Very well done.

        Moving forward, I do not think Logan is BG. His facial features do not fit.

        There are plenty of offenders in the Delphi area that “fit the bill”. Why I cannot comprehend parents who drop children off in National Parks, ALONE. At thirty, I wouldn’t go alone. Especially after this. I am in now way trying to judge the parents, but why no one has said this floors me. Understanding it would have never happened “had I known..” but no one ever does. Thus, be vigilant with your children. Ask questions. Don’t stop asking. Girls at their age are highly susceptible to grooming. Be it a dirty old man or the cute teenage boy, dangers lurk everywhere.
        Alas, the parents are victims. If I where the mother, of either girl, the killer wouldn’t be found. Not because he got away with it, because hed of been fed to pigs before they already got to him.

        Keep up the articles MR. Lindsay.

        Folks, please stick to facts as you throw out your conjecture. Adding opinions like “I’m sure he would have had his cellphone” and arguing about the most miniscule things really does take away from any valuable conjecture. It waters down your beliefs.

        • Have you considered joining the private site? There’s a small fee, but it might be worth it in your case.

          The private forum allows us to say whatever we want or post any pics or videos we want about anyone without fear of libel or defamation lawsuits. It also protects commenters from harassment and threats. In addition, you can say whatever you want without fear of your words going on the Net forever. The commenters on the forum love it because they feel safe and protected on there. You will also be joining the community and you can sleuth away to your heart’s content.

          We have lots of photos, videos and data to back up our case. Also you are free to run any of your theories such as this one by people on there and see what they think. There are 100-200 sleuths on the forum now.

  14. Garry Palin

    @ Bullethead- I do like your post and agree wit it. Yes there are 60 + yr olds that could carry or drag a body across a creek, “but not many”- sounds like you can, and are in great shape. Don’t forget the creek is 12 ft wide and about 6 ft deep, with a mud bottom, so it would be a tough job. Don’t forget that Libby may weigh close to 180 lbs. I’m in great shape and older as well, and I think I could handle Abby- don’t know about Libby. I know older hunters that carry their dead animals quite a distance-on their back,
    and we’re talking heavy deer etc. Can be done.
    Yesterday there was a “search warrant” on property owner Ron Logan’s property. I think the FBI feels that the killings were done in the house, barn or other buildings on property. This would make me believe that if this were the case, the girls were killed on the property somewhere, then brought back to the dump site on the north side. I wonder why Robert thinks the killings were done on the “south side” ??? I wonder how reliable he feels his information is ?? I have read now on a couple of forums, that people in the search party are convinced the body’s were “not there” on the first search, and were brought there after. ( at night) Considering Ron Logan knew one of the families, maybe the girls went with him “unforced” to one of his buildings or house. This sort of makes sense, that the killers could enjoy their killing more in a closed locale-then dumped the bodies later. So
    either they were killed on the South Side, or some closeby property. I still do believe there is more than “one man” involved here. I must say, for 77 yrs old, and a bigtime drinker ( alcohol) – Ron Logan looks very young for his age. I could give him 64 yrs old. Looks fairly strong as well. He would be one of those controlled drinkers. ( I think)
    In any event- I agree-these guys are “gutless cowards” to pick on 2 innocent young girls. They should have to deal with a guy like you Bullethead 🙂 – they wouldn’t live to see another day.

    • Ricita

      I agree with your theory about something happening at Ron Logan’s house. I think it’s the most plausible theory out there. Also, it seems as though the girls were on the trails quite frequently. Is it possible that they could have seen bridge man before and thought “There’s that creepy guy we saw here last month. I’m taking a picture of him just to be on the safe side.” I’ve read a lot on this case and I’ve watched Gray Hughes’s amazing videos but something is still not sitting well with me as far as the crime flow. At any rate, myself and a coworker are taking a road trip to Delphi in the very near future. I’m hoping to get some answers then.


        The GrayHuze videos, as well as the ones made by, I believe, his wife, where they actually walk the bridge, and go down the hill to the creek, shows that the creek is likely only around 6″-10″ deep in several places, and looks like it could be crossed very easily. I’m still in the camp that they were walked across and killed right where they were found. As tedious as the GrayHuze vids can be, he did an excellent job of showing exactly where the suspect was on the bridge when the video/pic was shot.

    • Mer

      I don’t think they were moved through the creek. It sounds like there are 2 areas at the park. An area south of the creek where something took place, and an area north of the creek, behind a cemetary which was where the bodies were discovered. Obviously, there was a vehicle involved to move the girls. The area behind the cemetery is described as steep and that would make it easier to move the girl’s bodies into the woods.

    • Bullethead

      And we wouldn’t need to pay to feed, clothe, or shelter these worthless pieces of trash.

      The pics I saw of the creek and the investigators crossing the creek illustrate an area much wider than 12′ and nowhere near 6′ deep. Maybe a sandbar area?

      That water is cold. Why would the killers (especially one in a black leather coat) want to cross it? Seems more likely that they used a car to drive around to Ron’s house.

      I was recently involved in a rescue attempt for a lost boy on one of the Great Lakes. FBI came in with a mobile home and set up a command center. The cute blonde agent garnered more attention than anything. More than 300 volunteers spent the night searching the shoreline. Having done some construction work along that shoreline area, I knew it well. Spent most of the night in the water or along the shore west of the kids house. We even had a chopper with infra red capabilities but we were told to concentrate west of the house. Next morning expanded search to east and south. They brought the dogs in, but as a handler told me that was way too late. Any trail was trampled by then. I was on the dock when they found the kid under 8′ of water stuck under a rock. I was last non- LE guy to leave before they brought him up because they needed someone to hold a jet ski tight against the dock to keep it from smashing against the rocks. The troubling parts? Nobody had any diving gear. All that time and nobody thought to bring any gear in. They even had a rescue LE boat there with no diving gear. They called another municipality in and we waited. Finally two bags of gear and when opened……someone had borrowed the masks. So we waited again. I was privy to all the conversations going on. The finger pointing and all. Troubling part was that all anyone cared about was who was going to get credit for finding the boy. Which municipality or county ambulance would be used to transport. Which individuals would be used to bring the 5 yr old autstic boy up etc.

      The worst part? LE had the info that the kid was spotted the afternoon he disappeared walking on the sidewalk EAST of his house. That info was never shared.

      Point of story. Do we have jurisdictional disputes going on here? Toby and boys trying to get the credit instead of letting more qualified FBI head things up? Toby strikes me as somebody who is in over his head and won’t admit it. But it’s his investigation right?

    • Mer

      I think there has been some misinformation about Ron Logan. The girls bodies were left on his farm, or near his farm. He said he was in Lafayette buying tropical fish and got home around 6:30. He also said some neighbors asked to search the woods on his land. The TV interview cuts off here, but I assume he said yes to the request. He seems genuinely upset that the girls were found there. He is willing to talk, and has been interviewed on his property by TV people. I assume from what he said that the area was searched on 2-13. If the bodies were already there, then they were overlooked. You said they were covered with leaves. The other possibility is that the girls were placed there at night, after the search ended. I don’t think he is the man in the photo, but the quality of the photos is so bad, who knows.

      • My latest info, straight from a real LE leak on the case (Linked to a guy, then to me, not linked to me) goes back an old theory.

        That theory is that the girls were placed in an outbuilding on 2-13 and kept there while this fellow had his way with them. They were then moved to the dump spot late at night after the searchers all left. And it is looking like they were marched to their dump site because I believe that they followed the girls footsteps to the dump site.

        I believe that the bodies were just not there on 2-13. The searchers are adamant that they searched that area.

        • Ricita

          This is horrific but it makes the most sense out of anything I’ve heard as far as the timeline of the crimes. Also, it rings a bell when Liberty’s grandfather spoke in the press conference as to both girls were heroes, that they had never left eachother’s side (paraphrased). It also makes sense as to what Ron Logan said as well, about something so horrible being committed in his home (paraphrased). Again, I don’t think Ron Logan or his immediate family had anything to do with this crime. As to if he knew the perpetrator, that remains to be seen. I think he’s in jail for his own personal protection and perhaps, because he is assisting LE as well. I just wish people would stop running his name through the mud.

        • Rich_M

          I was looking at a blow up of Logan’s property to try to locate a suitable outbuilding for the assaults. There are some but it seems a ways off from where they likely walked across the creek…which I believe occurred virtually right behind the cemetery. There are a few possibilities on Logan’s property for the scene of the crime but I would assume they would be locked…except for the barn which it seems to me would be pretty wide open.

          It could explain the length of time that LE was on scene…13 hours?

          And what of the one girl’s parents?
          Were they deep into drugs like the case in Iowa?

          Could this be a payback killing for a bad drug deal or flipping on someone?

  15. Rich_M

    If Logan was in jail at the time this crime was perpetrated..whose to say that he did not ask a friend or family member to check on his house while he was incarcerated and by coincidence, they just happened to show up on that day.

    If this friend or family member was into little girls and committed this crime…it would explain why no one saw a car, because it would have been parked at Logan’s house. No one outside of Logan would have known the person was there and with the woods behind the house, no one would have seen him walk toward the bridge.

    The possibility also exists that Ron Logan could be covering for this person because he would fear being implicated as an accessory, himself.

    Police may be aware of this person (assuming he exists) but do not have enough evidence to arrest him…and its also possible that they arrested Ron Logan to lean on him a little to get him to talk.

    Just an opinion, of course.

  16. There is something about this case that really bothers me, too. Beyond the obvious unnecessary loss of life. I guess bc this could be anyone’s child. Like you, I agree the FBI will soon have the suspect(s) in custody. There is so much info in this case and they will be able to prove their case. My heart breaks for the families of the girls.

    • I am not so optimistic anymore. I now am pessimistic again.

      This case really got to me too. I have not been following homicides lately, even vicious sexual rape-murder homicides, which are the ones I might want to follow. Especially serials. I mostly get involved in serial cases. It’s rather unusual for me to focus on a case like this but there’s something about this case that just really gets me for some reason. I can’t even put a finger on it.

  17. Garry Palin

    I’m beginning to wonder about the true motive for killing these 2 girls ??? Because a 15 man search team was called in Friday-March17, and also Ron Logan’s white half ton truck was seized, it tells me the FBI are desperately looking for DNA evidence.

    I hope this “was” a sexually motivated crime, because if it was there will be seminal fluids in or on one of the girls, or pubic hairs left. All they need is just one. I would think offenders today are very aware of leaving this DNA fingerprint behind, but if it was sexually motivated they lose control from getting excited. If this is the case, I’m sure they will find DNA. I’m beginning to think with all the searches, this was just a killing.

    If this was just a psychotic psychopath just looking to kill to innocent young girls, there would be very “little” DNA evidence left. As noted he had a gun, and may have just killed them, with a shot to the head. He may have also slit their throats so he could watch them die slowly. If he used a knife, then there is a good chance he cut himself, and left blood, as the girls put up a big fight. I hope this is the case, as I want this killer(s) caught.

    Some clues that police will not release is “how were they killed” ??? This is important, as it brings you into the minds of the killer(s) If indeed, as Ron says, they had scarves around the necks at the open casket funeral, then likely they had their throats slit, and likely stabbed several times. I’ve heard “conflicting” reports on this, and some say the girls had “no scarves” around their necks at the funeral. Maybe Ron can use his connections to find this out from family members or the search tea. ( very useful)

    Two other motives are that Logan was drunk and finally snapped at having the girls trespass on his property, and finally snapped, and things got carried away, and he killed them. Because he knew one og the families, they would have trusted him, to follow him to his house. Then he killed them, and maybe had help ???

    The last motive is that one of the girls, or their parents were deeply involved in drugs, and owed these people money, and the killers wanted to send a “message” like I believe is what happened in the Evansdale case.
    Only Law Enforcement, has this kind of information, and won’t divulge it.
    I wish LE would loosen up a little,and tell us, may help find the killer(s)

    In summary many people including myself, are trying to make sense of why grown men would harm innocent young girls, and take their lives at such a young age ??? It’s senseless, and if it was just a random killing by a psychotic psychopath, and or sexual killing- I hope these guys are caught, and they deserve to hang, or get the electric chair. It’s time society sends a message to these psychos, and let them know-“they will pay the price”
    The girls probably died a very slow and painful death-killers should as well.
    We are much to soft on killers like this- “time to change” and make these gutless guys pay for their crimes.


      I did a bit of research into the Iowa case and saw that the meth charges in at least one instance were federal. One of the Delphi victims also has a parent who has served prison time on meth-related charges. Cause me to wonder, even more, if these cases are not related. Could even be a cartel issue. Hopefully we find out, but I’m not very optimistic at this point. There was a recent arson in the Delphi area that killed children recently, as well. It went quiet after the double homicide. I have wondered since the beginning why the FBI was involved in the Delphi case, almost immediately?

      • A new FBI priority is crimes against children. They also go after pedophiles and their networks distributing child porn. Child porn is a huge issue with the FBI. Takes up a lot of resources.

        But the FBI lately has gotten into violent crime against children (or really against minors), particularly sexually motivated rape-murders. This guy did two teenage girls at once in broad daylight. That is a really audacious, brazen and unusual crime. I am not surprised the FBI jumped on it. The FBI was deeply involved in Evansdale too, for instance. They don’t like these sick fucks who go around raping and murdering little girls and teenage girls.

        Face it, that is one of the most fucked-up crimes you could commit in terms of sheer evil. I would almost say a crime like that is as bad as it gets crime-wise.


          No, there is nothing worse, IMO, than this type of crime, or any other that harms and/or kills children. I may not agree(presently) with your theory about motive/execution in this particular crime, but I absolutely agree this fucked up beyond healthy human comprehension.

        • I may not agree(presently) with your theory about motive/execution in this particular crime, but I absolutely agree this fucked up beyond healthy human comprehension.

          NO SHIT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Ricita

      The Logan being drunk and snapping theory makes no sense. He has an alibi and even if he didn’t, it’s just silly. I think people want to point the finger at him because it’s easy. As in “Logan did it, he’s already incarcerated, and now we can all breathe a sigh of relief and continue on with our lives.” Unfortunately, this is simply untrue. While I do think there is a compelling link between Evansdale and Delphi, I don’t think it has anything to do with drugs. On a personal note, I, unfortunately have many a family member involved in the drug game. If they want to get at you, they will get at YOU, not your children. They’ll pop a cap in your wig. Boom. Boom. You’re dead. What happened to these girls is so out of the realm of the street lifestyle. Drug dealers didn’t kill Abby and Libby, no way.

  18. Susan

    Who and where is Ron Logans son?????

    • 40 years old, lives about 30 miles away, married with a couple of kids. A lot of people are pointing fingers at him for some reason, but I can’t see any reason for him to be a POI.

      • sdflowergirl

        40yo married father profile does not mean one cannot be a POI or a real POS, particularly if an earlier profile describing MrX pedophile fits the family heritage.

        In RL interview, he sure is covered, among other unusual and unsettling things forever on tape. Newsguy: no gloves, coat unbuttoned, not that cold. RL: gloves tucked in to the coat and sweatshirt. Wader boots to the knee…seems ambidextrous pointing…knows . Curious what’s under there, what wrists and hands looked like. Covered–cold? Just covered?

        • Mer

          There is nothing unusual about the way he is dressed in the TV interviews he gave. I didn’t notice that he was wearing gloves, but he has a small farm, 40 acres(?), and would likely wear sturdy gloves while doing chores. He seemed appropriate in the interviews I saw. If he was involved, he would have hidden from the media. He is in jail for a parole or probation violation from DUIs.

  19. Colorado

    I noticed the large gloves and seemingly bulky (layered hoodie and jacket) clothing worn by RL in at LEAST one of the interviews online and wondered why he was wearing them when in one shot the female reporter was dressed for much warmer weather. I wondered at the time if hand wounds could exist after a month that needed to be covered (seems awkward to be wearing large, heavy work-type gloves as you are interviewed and are simply walking).

    Another interview shows RL with hand (s?) tucked into jeans pocket(s?) as he speaks to interviewer – a reminder to me of the posture of the subject in the photos from the bridge. In later interviews he seems to have dressed nicely in button shirts and jeans (no gloves, no jacket, no hat), so hard to say any of it really means anything.

    I thought I remembered a house being searched shorty after these murders. I wasn’t following the case as I am now and so only have a sketchy memory of seeing news reports showing police outside what looked like a white house – was that the same house as searched on RL property?

    Very interesting reading different ideas and questions. The man is innocent until proven guilty and I find that I must keep repeating that to myself. Anxious to find out more ….

  20. tess

    Why does everyone think that the police have the phone? This guy isn’t stupid. He took the phone; he probably erased everything he could and/or destroyed it. Police have not said they HAVE the phone, only that they got the pics off the phone.

    Whether an Android or Iphone, everything that was recorded and all pics taken went to the Cloud or Google Storage. I think police pulled everything off the Cloud. Killer probably didn’t even think that anything your phone does is “backed up” and stored as it’s happening. Thank God for that. Don’t forget…Libby’s phone was “pinging” around town after the murders.

  21. Susan M Cherry

    First of all I have been so interested in this case from the very beginning, so much that I really don’t know why. I guess it’s because I have four beautiful daughters of my own and can only imagine what these families are going through. I also have a beautiful granddaughter who is a teen, and if I had to go through something like this, I would be a basket case.

    With that being said I showed my Granddaughter this murder. We listened to that voice and picked apart the picture. She said he said “Go down the hill.” Not just “Down the hill,” but that one word makes a difference. “Go down the hill” is not the same as “down the hill.” A twelve year old girl figured that out.

    Also he has gloves on. Why would some man just walking on the trail have gloves on? Oh forgot to mention I love forensics! It is a passion of mine. I have called in on this case three times. I want this killer or killers caught. They are dangerous. Back to another point. The first time I called in I said he said “Go down the hill.” The next time I called about Ron Logan’s house. Does that house have a camera system on it? I wanted an answer, I am serious about this.

    You stated the girls were murdered in the daytime. I don’t think so. I think they were picked up, possibly taken to a house nearby, abused then put back when it was still dark on Feb 13, 2017 in the night. Or the early hours of the 14th.

    My Granddaughter found a piece on her phone that said that the body of one of the girls was still warm when they were found. It also talked about a rope. Then went on to say at the funeral, both girls had scarves on. That leads me to believe they were strangled. Another point that was the area where they were found was already searched once. So, they were put there later on. The piece my Granddaughter found on her phone, I have never seen that again.

    My daughters said that is not good to show her stuff like this, and I said I need her to know what type of people are in our world. Monster is what they are. I have pray to GOD to help us find who did this. Also my daughter said “Mom, if you keep calling in about this, they will think you are involved in this.” I thought about it, but it was in the case’s best interest for me to give little tidbits of things I noticed or heard that would help this case. I don’t want it to go cold. The sooner they get caught the better. Susan m cherry

    • CKS

      Yes, Susan Cherry, I think the bridge guy has on Brown rough working gloves. I also think he has a leather tool belt, the kind workmen wear sideways, around his waist. He clothes look clean and his face and hair groomed, so I doubt he was a drifter. I bet that blue coat was something he got just for the occasion – like at Goodwill. I wonder if he left it behind. I do respect the investigation to not share all the information with the public, but I hope they will choose to share it before the case goes cold. I hope that those of you who go to the area can share your pictures and experiences with us. My gut feeling is the guy is local. I live in a town of 3000 more people than Delphi and strangers stick out like a sore thumb.

      Please, find this monster(s)

  22. Susan M Cherry

    I have even gone so far as to compare the picture of the man on the bridge with pedophiles in that area. This case has me so upset inside because this behavior is dangerous. I just had to add this piece, as it has me so upset that a day doesn’t go by that I don’t look for progress in this case. I am very dedicated in finding who did this.

  23. Holley

    If this is Ron Logan, and he owns horses that’s a good way to get the girls down there……Not much trouble getting them out to those woods that way. Either carried over the horse or drug out there on top of something . Sled, tarp, small canoe, or a small wagon possibly. Just my thoughts….


    I think it’s almost automatic in a case like this, to assume the killing was sexually motivated, but what if this was something else? What if this was somehow peripheral to another crime? Such as : girls out hiking inadvertently stumble across drug deal or another drug-related crime, and are killed simply for being in the “wrong place/wrong time”? Or it could possibly even have been an act of revenge/retribution against someone? I just don’t think enough information has been released to know for certain what the killer(s)’ motivation was. The area, from what I have gleaned doing my own bit of research, has a very serious methamphetamine problem, and that is a drug that is a)highly lucrative for little initial investment, and b) one which causes the kind of paranoia and delusions that often lead to violence. The drug trade, especially when talking about substances such as meth, heroin, etc, attracts some of the worst personalities we can imagine, including those who think nothing of human life. This angle may be way off base, and I mean no disrespect to those who are certain this was the act of a pedophile, but at this point, I think every possibility needs to be considered.

    • Garry Palin

      @ Shane- good work on the “drug angle” on this case. The Iowa case certainly had drug dealer parents involved ( meth) and it appears one of the victim’s parents did jail time for Methamphetamine. I believe you also said these were Federal charges ( quite serious)-FBI involved.

      A lot of times biker gangs that control and live off the drug trade control certain areas and “protect” their trade. If other rival biker gangs try to step in and take over, or other competition, it usually ends up in a turf war, and people are killed-“without doubt.” This could have been a “message” by the drug lords to the Delphi parents-“stay off our turf.”

      With this being said, if the drug dealers felt they wanted to send a message, they would hire a professional type hit man to do the job. This guy on the bridge certainly came prepared to kill, and was very well organized. You really can make sense of the 2 cases being related. I would also think if this was drug related, you would think the case would not get this kind of coverage, “except” in this case young girls killed.

      If this was “not” the work of a pedophile, or a Serial killer, it’s going to be a lot harder to find the people(s) involved on these killings. A pro- hit man is just there to kill, and that’s it-no DNA-seminal fluids left etc., and it may be tough o find the guy (s) I’m hoping it was a serial killer, or a pedo, as their excitement to kill, causes them to lose control and leave evidence. I’m sure the FBI is looking at all possibilities, and they will eventually get to the bottom of this ( either way) and apprehend the killer (s) Even if this was drug related-the crime still has to be solved. We don’t have enough info to know at this time.

    • I am quite certain that this has nothing to do with the drug trade. The girls were apparently not into drugs at all AFAICT. This rarely happens. Drug dealers only very rarely kill a child of an enemy to send a message. The only cases I am aware of are deep in the ghetto. Anyway that would have just been two shots to the head. The manner of this crime indicates a sexual motive. The guy is rapist, a sexual sadist and a sociopath. He could well be a serial. In other words, Unsub has the same personality as Ted Bundy.

      On another note, this was not a pedophilic crime. If the Delphi guy did Evansdale too, then he would be a pedophile, but most of these sickos who go after teenage girls are not pedophiles. They normal at least as far as age range. Anyway, 13-14 is getting near the upper end of pedophilic interest.

      Pedophilia is defined as with kids 12-under, but pedophiles sometimes still go for 13-14 yr olds because girls that age still retain a lot of “childlike” features. But that’s still getting old for a pedophile. Once girls go through puberty and start looking like women, most pedophiles start losing interest pretty quickly.

      He could be a hebephile. Hebephiles don’t like little girls. Their preference is for girls around puberty age 12-14, 11-14, something like that. They refused to put hebephilia in the DSM, but true hebephiles are not normal. I have studied them on their boards. To only like girls age ~11-~15 and have no interest in mature females is NOT NORMAL. I have studied them on their boards. They freak out and start screaming if someone posts a 16 year old girl. They all start screaming, “No grandmas!” It’s actually funny.

      Look if you think a 16 yr old is a GRANDMA to you sexually, you are JUST NOT NORMAL, sorry about that.

    • Well a hit man would have just shot them and left. Considering the manner in which they were killed along with rape, there is no way any hit man would rape and murder his victims in this way. Further, I have never heard of a hit man murdering minors.

  25. Garry Palin

    In addition to my last comment-“about drugs involved”- if the drug cartel wanted to kill these 2 girls, I think it would have been done “right there”. They would not have been taken somewhere, and then moved back at night- just to much time and risk. Only way that would be possible is if the drug people knew one of the “property owners”-like Ron Logan. Even if they did though- why wouldn’t they kill them “right away” under the bridge and take off.

    At this point I’d put the drug theory at around 15-20 % as it would take to much time and “very risky.” I think this is sexual, or some type of Serial killer type personality. Just think about it- if you were a “hit-man” would you hang around for 6-8 hours and take the bodies back to the North Side ???

    ALSO- I’m sure the reason why the FBI empounded Ron Logan’s truck was to search for fibres, or blood that match the girls clothing or DNA. I also think the truck was used to transport the girl’s bodies to the dump site, and it’s obvious the FBI is thinking that way as well.


      I believe your logic is spot on. The only argument I would present is that, aside from speculation, we don’t know if the bodies were moved or not. Where they were found may be exactly where they were killed, and as it was nearing dark when the search began, searchers might have either walked past the site, or simply not have made it to the spot until the next day. I’m with you in hoping the FBI and all involved are looking at every possibility and find this person(s) soon.

      • The latest leak, supposedly straight from LE, is that FBI thinks the girls were taken to a structure somewhere where this guy had his fun with them. They were then moved down to the site very late at night.

        And I have heard that they followed the girls’ footprints down to the dump site so the girls were alive and walking on the way to the dump site, which was probably a kill site too.

        This is one fucked up crime, God damn.

        • Andrew

          If that is true, and the girls were taken to a structure or building, their cell phones should possibly show where in the GPS. I find it interesting that Libby was able to record her abduction without him noticing, because he surely would have taken the phone if he’d seen her recording him. He was not that far away when she was capturing him approaching, and while it’s hard to tell, the angle of the pictures don’t make it seem like she was recording discreetly.

          And it also seems so strange that the girls’ bodies were apparently found with the phone still with them. Unless he raped and killed them almost immediately and then fled in a hurry, how would he never think to check for that and take the cell from them to prevent a 911 call or something similar? You would think he would expect Libby and/or Abby to have a phone on them in this day and age.

          While I have mostly thought this murder seemed planned out in advance, the cellphone is the one piece of evidence that makes this seem like something done on the spur of the moment. Also, I don’t think the person in the picture is as heavy-set as others do. To me he looks to be bundled up in layers of clothing that makes him look much bigger than he really is, maybe intentionally.

        • Mer

          The question is where would this be? It makes you think the guy is local. You couldn’t drive onto someone’s farm and use an outbuilding. They would call the Sheriff and then come looking with a shotgun. If he used an outbuilding or structure at a nearby location, it would have to be a deserted property, or his own place.

    • Ok how does the killer have access to Ron Logan’s truck to drive it when Ron is not there?

      • Garry Palin

        The only way the “killer(s)” would have access to Ron Logan’s truck, was that he was involved, and had an extra key for them-right ??? or they hotwired the truck.( unlikely) but thieves do it all the time. Ron Logan would have to be a fool to allow his vehicle to be linked if he’s involved.

        This does not make sense in leu of what Ron says about the girls footprints being tracked to the kill site. We really can’t go on this information-“for sure” because at first it was thought there was 2 kill sites, one on the South ( murder scene), and the dump site ( North side) We need some “hard reliable facts” to make determinations.

        Summary- because of what’s all been learned-like Abby’s body being still warm when found etc, it’s very likely they were killed in a structure on Logan’s property-then driven by truck to dump site- or they were raped in a structure on Logan’s property, then walked to the final kill site with the killer(s) on the North side. Be interesting to have cold hard facts, but I’m sure we’re all fairly close here to what happened.

      • Mer

        Ron Logan was at home after 6:30, and he knew something was going on because neighbors asked to search the woods behind his farm. I don’t think his truck was used and I don’t think he knows anything.

        • Garry Palin

          If Ron Logan was home at 6:30 pm- what does that say ??? is it possible the killer had the girls in one of the barns with Logan being home?? If that’s the case you’d have to think he knew about this? either that or the killer(s) were hoping he would not check his barns etc and see the girls ?
          Something is not right with Logan here ?

  26. Runner3312

    Funny how everyone jumps to conclusions about facts this is how rumors get started. When has press ever said they found the phones??? Never because they didn’t find Libby phone. Clearly he isn’t as dumb as u all think. My best friend was related to liberty so I know my info is correct. There are other ways to get contents of a phone without possessing the phone itself ever heard of the cloud. And it is my understanding that there was a path where the bodies were drug through the woods to the dump site not sure where u all got t he whole carried them across the creek theory.
    This part is my own personal opinion but why would police say the man in the photo participated in the murders and that they weren’t saying that the voice of that on the audio clip was the same person who was pictured in the photo if there wasn’t evidence on the video of there being 2 murders.
    I do agree that they should release a small portion of the video showing the man walking because I too feel people carry themselves in a particular way (such as the duck walk theory) and seeing him walk could help identify him since the screen shot photo from the video is so grainy.


      Police haven’t stated there was a sex crime involved or cause of death, either. So much is pure speculation at this point, simply because of what little they HAVE said. Condolences to your friend who is related to the case. I can’t imagine the trauma everyone close to this is enduring.

  27. eric alter

    I actually know who did this. Turned them into FBI March 11, 2017.
    I’m the reason the investigation turned back to local.

  28. Katherine

    Has anyone looked at the Amber Alert for Columbia, TN (it’s right on I-65)? Over a week ago a fired high school teacher (Tad Cummins) kidnapped one of his 15 year old students. I think there is a resemblance here. Called the FBI last week and relayed my thought.

    • The girl’s fine. And she was not abducted anyway. She went a long quite willingly as she was in a consensual relationship with the man. Apparently she and he were going to take off somewhere to another town and live together as lovers or possibly even marry later. The girl was found very quickly but there is still an alert. How you can abduct someone who is perfectly happy to be abducted and participates in their own abduction.

      • Garry Palin

        I totally agree with you on this Elizabeth Thomas case. Although she was just 15 yrs old, she knew what she was doing. She’s probably had sex with the guy tons of times. As you said, she went with him on her own free will, and wanted to be with him. He’s not violent, and treats her very well, so I don’t understand all the money and LE resources being spent on this case. It is a “no case” in my mind. Why is our North American society so intolerant of age gap relationships, where it’s so common in Eastern Europe and Asia. What are they going to do here ? lock the guy up in jail for 10 years, for falling in love with a beautiful young girl ? You gotta wonder sometimes ?

      • CKS

        Because she was still a CHILD an unable to make such complex decisions herself since she obviously ran off with her creepy teacher. Also, he probably groomed her and screwed with her mind real good, ahead of time.

  29. Concerned Citizen

    A man in a white Ford cargo van with no windows, approached a child last Tuesday (Feb. 14), after they had been let off the bus.
    The man reportedly asked the Caston Elementary student if they wanted some Valentine’s Day candy.
    The man is described as a thin white male in his late forties to early fifties with curly brown hair and a scruffy beard. He was wearing a gray t-shirt.
    Caston is only 45 minutes away from Delphi.This bothers me, because things like this don’t happen often around these parts.

    • Thank you for this. Actually that would be two Tuesdays ago, and it would be March 14, not February 14.

      • Concerned citizen

        This is just copied from the article. I am a parent in the area and this incident did occurr on February 14. We all got letters from the school the next day.

        • sdflowergirl

          That changes things.

          Maybe the location of the crimes wasn’t a building near the water but a mobile van. Either way could explain the phone pinging all around town that night. Sad to think the girls could’ve been being driven around town as he watched it all unfold.

          Given LE were searching for a physical location for the crime and a cabin was mentioned early, there must be something identifiable in the video as location is concerned, perhaps after things quieted down for the night. Either way, this is a disturbing idea, particularly if there is a connection.

          That’s time enough for dropping off the girls, catching a nap, and hitting the road as school let’s out.

        • sdflowergirl

          Tried to verify this online and ended up finding a note in the Rochester Sentinel of a suspicious man approaching kids at a school bus stop March 3 in Beardstown area, Pulaski Co. White male, stubby beard, dark curly hair, 30-45. Different vehicle–a 4 door tan Chrysler passenger car with tinted windows.

          Kids think anyone over 25 is about the same age (just old), so not sure if kids are the best at estimating age of creepy dudes.

          This is 58 miles north of Delphi and 40 miles from the Caston School.

  30. Mick Johnson

    When the story broke, my first thought was that the girls agreed to meet with someone at some point on the trail.

    The man looks younger to me than most people are saying. I was thinking 23-45 maximum. He also appears to be average to maybe just a bit on the heavy side. First impression is 5-10 to 5-11 in height and 165 to 185 weight. He seems to have a roundish shaped face.

    No way is he a local man. Many people would have recognized one or more of the articles of clothing. By playing it so close to the vest, LE may have made a mistake. They certainly know far more than any of us…even those with inside sources.

    Logan is being held for unknown reasons..I’ve no idea what that is about. Does anyone know anything beyond pure speculation?

    What is this about phone pings in different spots? Any help is appreciated. if you can share any information.

    • I agree that they may have agreed to meet him. Many girls this age do that. They have a very strong sense of “nothing can happen to me.”

      • CKS

        The bridge guy cloud have pretending to be a teenager on social media and encouraged the girls to meet up with him. This, however, would show up on computers and phone records… So, I’m sure the cops know if that’s a possibility. I agree he looks younger than most people think. I see 20’s to 30’s. Ann’s if he’s a psychopath, I bet he will do it again. He probably LOVES that he was able to pull out off.

        Oh, another thing. Could the guy have past the girls going in the opposite direction on the trestle bridge, then turn around and go after them? The placement of his get in the still photos looks like he’s at a very brisk walk at the least… Perhaps even a slow jog.

        Liberty had a decent cell phone. Those cost a lot of money and teens can really get in trouble for losing one our having one stolen. She could have hid it afraid bridge guy wanted to steal it. I will say, those two girls are heroes to me. Sticking together, when one might have been able to flee and getting audio visual evidence. I’m 52 and have no confidence I would have such quick thinking.

  31. Houndstooth

    Not hearing much about the son of the property owner being the guilty sob. So no one suspects that the older property owner is covering for his son?

  32. I’ve followed this case from the beginning too. Why? I don’t know. I’ve even run a few ads on FB for information.

    With that, here’s what I surmise:

    “Looks very meticulous” …
    No. Shirt out…disheveled, like he’d been drinking or up to no good prior. I’ve gotten “public opinion” and “what do you see” and we’ve worked with the photo.

    Pedophiles are not statisticly violent, socio/psychopaths, sexual deviants are. Pedofiles befriend under your family and their very nose. They dont want to lose what they covet. They perceive “love” for the child. This is not pedo.

    I would think he’s unemployed or a driver, either way, someone saw him “acting strange” that day. Someone, maybe Logan, knows something.

    Ligatures by clothing or girls’ belongings.

    Semen on bodie(s).

    I haven’t contemplated much more. Law enforcement has already talked to the guilty party, yes, I’d be surprised if there were 2 perps.

    Happy Sleuthing!

    • P.S. One man can take two girls by threatening the life of one if the other ran. They promised to never leave each other, they were best friends and stayed together to the bitter end.

  33. Jennifer

    A thought that’s stuck in my head and seems to contradict the theory that he is not local is that the bridge is high and it seems in the pictures that he’s casually walking with his hands in his pocket. If someone wasn’t familiar or had been on the bridge multiple times before, don’t you think they would’ve been more concerned that they were so high up? To me, his body language shows that he’s familiar with the bridge and this is definitely not his first time on it. Just something that’s stuck in my mind.

  34. Teri Nash

    Look into Gabe Ellis of Kokomo. He was on Indiana’s most wanted list. He was arrested a day after the murdered teens were found. He has lived in West Lafayette, IN. He was arrested in 2009 in rural Delphi when caught with the precursors for meth. He rides a motorcycle and hang with bikers. Many biker event and trips include the bar in Delphi where one of the victim’s grandmother works. He is known to like teen woman. He has help at least two run away in the last year. One is the cousin of the young woman named McClerkin who is still missing since summer 2016. The other was a teen named Voiles who was found with him when he was arrested on Feb. 15, 2017. Ellis has a very long criminal record it includes sex crimes, weapons violations and drugs. He looks like the photo of the suspect on the bridge. He is the right age, height and build. He has a large nose, wore a goatee and had a lot of brown hair. But when arrested recently shaved down his goatee and hair thus changing his appearance. He stands with his legs turned out like bridge guy walks. He has a large tattoo on the left side of his neck. Some have thought bridge guy is covering the left side of his neck or face with a scarf. The tattoo is of a family members name some easy to identify. In Ellis’ FB photos he often where a cap, sometimes backwards, a pair of large sunglasses, an over sized hoodie, jeans, high top tennis shoes or boots, and a bandana around his neck ! Is it possible he was hiding out away from Kokomo in the Delphi area. Could he of been in the bar and overheard a conversation by the victim’s grandmother or someone else that the two girls were on the trail ? Someone called a tip in when Ellis was arrested. Could that someone have a clue of the horrible thing he did ? I am not saying Ellis did it. I am saying he is an excellent suspect.

  35. CKS

    Under the bridge guys jacket… What stone people think it’s a brown hoodie, reminds me of those brown leather total belts construction workers use. These belts are usually lower on one side.

    Also, does anyone think he used something to lure the girls in, perhaps? Only two ways I could see them going with him quietly. #1, did he say he was a cop or Ranger and that the bridge was illegal to cross? #2 predators he had a small puppy sick in his jacket and asked the girls to help him get it back to the mother dog or something.

  36. Me

    I think he described him very well… But there’s one thing that you didn’t notice. In fact a lot of people haven’t noticed take a good look at the picture tell me if you see something there that hasn’t been mentioned yet.

  37. i was falling short of hope,this case ripped my heart out.reading just a small amt.of theories ,gives me hope again.god bring this to the light before he finds other victims.amenin jesus name ,amen

  38. Craig Flynn

    Your wrong about the age. He is older than 30s or 40s. I had been praying a lot about being able to help the families of the victims. I got a 24 hour flu bug and stayed home from work and went back to sleep. I had a dream 6 weeks ago tomorrow that I was helping the FBI clear up the pics with software on a PC. When I woke up I downloaded software to clean up pictures, and it worked I sent all the pics to the tip email.

    They were getting 1,000 tips a day so I went to my local sheriff the very next evening and explained what had happened and showed him the pics, and he got very excited and took all my info plus my email address. He went and called the Carroll county sheriff and told them to pull my pics. The next morning they dropped from 200 investigators to 24 and went from 14,000 tips to 2,900. I know who the person in the pic is. They do to thanks to an answered prayer. They are waiting on DNA evidence to come back before they charge anybody.

    • Can you tell me who Bridge Guy is? Write me and email if you want to tell me.

    • Dlux

      Send the cleaned up pics for us too see, if you don’t mind?

      • Jen

        Would love to see the cleaned up pics as well.

        • Jen

          The lead investigators in the case just gave an update that sounds like they aren’t any closer to solving the case than they were on day 1? Are they just not wanting to reveal anything to the public yet? Or??? As frustrated as we all are feeling about this remaining unsolved, it’s got to be making them crazy. Every time it seems like they might be close it becomes a dead end.

        • Lotus

          Jen, sometimes they might make such an announcement when they are getting close. Everything they say, they say for a reason.

          If they truly are no closer, I think they should reveal more information. Even if they told the manner of killing, this might spark someone’s knowledge of a person.

        • Jen

          I really hope they are close; I check daily to see if they announce anything new, I know a lot of you do too. I can’t believe it’s been 3 months and still nothing. So discouraging, can’t imagine how the families must be feeling and everyone has to be on edge wondering where he will strike next:(. If it weren’t for the updates on here I’m not sure I’d feel much hope about an arrest ever being made.

        • Jen can you link me to that?

        • I do not know if it is making them nuts. These types of crimes are often extremely difficult to solve. They often go unsolved sadly enough.

        • Jen

          Robert, if you are referring to the link to the update, it is here:

      • I heard the DNA was back and it was a match for Ivan Brumbough, the guy who found the bodies.

        • Lotus

          Where did you hear this?

        • Mick Johnson

 Delphi native. Is this the man who found the bodies?

        • Lotus

          Mick, he has two facebooks — the one you have linked and this one also:

          The first one seems to be from when he owned the restaurant and is more public. This second one seems to be more private and only for him and this woman with the two girls.

        • Mick Johnson

          Thank you for that information, Lotus. I am still waiting to see the “cleaned up” photo.

        • Lotus

          Mick, it is important to know it is said to be “touch DNA” and that he said he did touch the bodies when he found them.

          There may numerous DNA profiles present on the girls and at the site. The object would be to see what DNA was under the fingernails if the girls were fighting back, any blood or semen, or anything that seems like it would have come from the killer. They may have such a DNA sample but not have it matched to anyone yet.

        • Lotus

          Mick, I am not connected to the supposedly cleaned up photo. Someone else posted about that. Maybe they don’t plan to share it.

        • Mick Johnson

          Lotus…sorry, I knew it was not you but my wording was poorly chosen.

        • Well the source is not great. It is a guy who is certain the Brumbaugh is the killer and has made videos to that effect. He also says that two days after he turned in Brumbaugh, the investigation was dramatically scaled down. And he says he’s going to get the reward. He also says Brumbaugh will be arrested very soon.

          This is a weak rumor because this very self-invested guy is pushing it. Nevertheless, it is the only person named as having a DNA hit in this case.

          Personally, I have a terribly difficult time seeing this Brumbaugh guy as some murdering maniac, unless he is another Ted Bundy. He does not seem like he would have it in him.

    • Mer

      Did LE tell you they are waiting on DNA evidence before they charge someone? This is a recurring rumor, that LE knows who did this and they are gathering evidence to prove a case. Craig, please send your cleaned up photo to Robert.

  39. Mer

    So many rumors and theories. I don’t believe that LE is back to square one. They don’t want to divulge anything. If they say they have a good suspect, it will be a media deluge, and they wouldn’t be able to take that statement back. At the very least, I hope they can build a strong circumstantial case.

    It’s hard to believe that after a fight and an assault, that there would not be DNA evidence, or fiber samples, or whatever they look for to link a suspect.

  40. Sorry, I hit return too soon. This is in response to the “duck walk”

  41. Lori Jo

    a sex offender….on the run…thats my bet ….JW

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