Veddoid Skulls, Genes and Phenotypes

Ultra Cool writes:

The Ainu are related to the Japanese, I assume that makes Veddas Mongoloid by genes, Australoid by skull and Caucasoid by looks, correct?

Not really. I mean Veddoid genes either look NE Asian or Malaysian in the case of the Senoi in Thailand or South Indian in the case of South Indian tribals.

So Veddoid genes have no particular quality. They simply assimilate to the genetics of whatever larger group they are around.

Negritos are similar. The pure genetic Negritos are in the Andaman Islands, and indeed their genes are very distinct. However, the rest of the Negritos simply have genes that look like whoever they are around. Thai Negritos have genes that look Thai. Filipino Negritos have genes that look Filipino. Indonesian Negritos have genes that look Indonesian. New Guinean Negritos have genes that look Papuan. Australian Negritos have genes that look Aborigine, and so on. This is because everywhere they went, the Negritos, a small group, bred in the much larger group until their genes began to resemble the larger group.

Yes, Veddoids do tend to have similar looking Australoid skulls everywhere they exist.

And yes, they do tend to have a “Caucasoid” phenotype everywhere they exist simply because this is somehow what they evolved in India, which then carried on to other places they went to. This Caucasoid phenotype is a result of convergent evolution and in way whatsoever proves that any of these peoples are actually Caucasoid.

I feel that the range of possible human phenotypes is small, so “Asian”, “Caucasian”, or “Negroid/African” are three of the most common phenotypes resulting in humans. These phenotypes can probably evolve just about anywhere because the range of possible end-types for phenotypes may be small. If it’s small, sooner or later, you will have people who look “Negroid” or “Caucasoid” simply due to the law of averages. There are a lot of “Negroid” looking people in Melanesia, among Negritos, among Papuans, and even among some Central Americans such as we see in the Olmec statues. “Negroid” just appears to be a sort of phenotype that may evolve in very hot or tropical weather, possibly because a lot of Negroid attritubes are adaptive in the tropics.

Veddoids may have evolved in India over 18,000 YBP, so they are a very archaic race.

After that, they appear to have gone from India to Thailand, possibly by sea. Skulls from Thailand 18,000 YBP look very much like Jomonese skulls from Japan and Ainu skulls today.

Before 18,000 YBP: Veddoids evolve in India.

18,000 YBP: Veddoids go to Thailand. Their descendants become the Senoi.

13,000 YBP: Veddoids show up in far southern Japan (possibly Okinawa) as the Jomonese, the ancestors of the Ainu and the first people to settle Japan that we know of. They arrive here from Thailand. They appear to have gone from Thailand to Japan by boat. No one knows when they left Thailand or how look it took them to get to Japan, but sometime in that 5,000 year period from 18,000 YBP to 13,000 YBP, they move in between Thailand and Japan by boat. Old anthropological theory said that a long time ago, one of the early peoples of the Philippines resembled what to me look like the Ainu, so they may have stopped in the Philippines at some point between 18,000 YBP and 13,000 YBP en route from Thailand to Japan by sea.


Filed under Ainu, Anthropology, Asia, Asians, Australia, Genetics, India, Indonesia, Japan, NE Asia, Negritos, Northeast Asians, Pacific, Papua New Guinea, Papuans, Philippines, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, SE Asia, SE Asians, South Asia, Thailand

17 responses to “Veddoid Skulls, Genes and Phenotypes

  1. Barack Thatcher

    Apparently the Indian-Australoid effect can be observed with Oetzi in Europe.

    One of the earliest /oldest races in Europe comes from Sardinia.
    Although Oetzi was in the Alps, his ancestry is linked to the people on their way to Sardina, much like Australoids and East India.

    I have seen an occasional East Indian, when in Western Garb, could easily be mistaken for an Australian Aborigine.

  2. Ultra Cool

    When you said phenotype, do you mean superficial looks or skull shape? Do you think Veddas can be thought of as different races depending on which of these traits you find more important?

      • Robert arent veddoids a proto-caucasoid (elamites)+negrito mix?

        • No, Veddoids are some of the original Australoids of India. I think they may be a more evolved type of Australoid, up from the more archaic Negritos. There is a group called the Senoi in Thailand that are certainly Veddoid Australoids. They appear later in the archeological record than Negrito or Melanesian types.

        • Wait so veddoids are pure australoid, then dravidians from elam (possibly related to the kushites) came and mixed in. Then aryans came and invaded. So india is a triracial mix of indo european aryans, medditerranean elamites and black australoids. Am i right with this notion robert?
          Thank you,
          Akhil Tummala

  3. pepperroncini

    The only people who can accurately be called Veddoid are the Vedda aboriginal people people of Sri-Lanka because that is the only place in South Asia where there is a distinct and separate Vedda community. Elsewhere in the SubContinent, they have assimilated into the larger cultures around them.

    Now the Ainu of yesteryear do have a certain Veddoid vibe going in their phenotype. And Australian aboriginals who are mixed with Whites do sometimes resemble some aboriginal South Asians.

  4. Ultra Cool

    There should be a different name for Blacks, both Caucasoids and Mongoloids have a name based on a geographical area, it makes no sense to name Blacks according to their skin color because people of other races can be very dark too.

    And thanks for letting me know the Black phenotype is an adaptation to tropical environment, I’m never going to the jungle now, just in case.

  5. Ultra Cool

    I haven’t ever heard of that term before, it seems good to me because it’s based on a geographical area.

  6. Ultra Cool

    I was looking at some Ainu and photographs and it’s very striking how Caucasoid many of them despite being geneticall different, what type of environment leads a population to develop a Caucasoid phenotype?

    • As far as I know, I would suppose Forests/ desert. Ideally place either cold and or dry.

      Interesting note, a anthropologist on human races name Carleton Coon reported that Australian Aborgines resembled cromagnons, in which their facial features were angular like Caucasians but more robust. What didn;t help however was that they had heat adaptation that gave pseudo-negroid traits so it’s not that noticable.

      This however is more marked when people look at Mulattoes versus mixed Aborginal people, the latter more inclined to a caucasian look.

    • Phil is correct. If you look at them even more closely, they also look like Aborigines. And Aborigines look more Caucasoid than they look like any other race.

      Ainu probably came from a proto-Aborigine stock down in Thailand 16,000 YBP. You must remember that at some point, most humans were Australoids. Even proto-Caucasoids have been described as Australoid. The earliest Koreans or Jomons are also very robust and appear somewhat Aborigine/Caucasian. The earliest Amerindians found down in Mexico were also very robust. Possibly early hunter-gatherer humans were simply robust and they become more gracile as they settled into agriculture.

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