Countering Some Anti-Communist Lies

Actually Pretty Funny: I mean, damn it, you only want everyone to be dirt poor. You only care for the dirt poor, and treat everyone the same like you treat the dirt poor. Affluent Soviet citizens need ten years to afford a car, with all the paperwork. And crappy cars indeed. Your homeless man doesn’t even have the patience to wait in a line without drinking, why do you force Soviet people who can afford cars to wait 10 years?

And since the Soviets gave undesirable people too much money and power and installed them in position of power and management, the people who could efficiently ran the country secretly quit.

Your Communism only works in very homogeneous and secluded societies or else it would fail hilariously. Belarus is landlocked and the people are mostly Belorussians, so it couldn’t break free away from Russia and indeed now depends partly on military/ intelligence/ security know-how and support from Russia. And the dictator there routinely puts  people into jail because he needs to keep people homogeneous in their thinking. But Ukraine isn’t homogeneous, so they fled. They have their own seaports to export their goods.

One good attribute of the Socialist Man is that he doesn’t complain or protest much. So you don’t hear much about the problems of countries like that.

In this day and age, no one really starves to death anymore. Obesity is now an epidemic. All thanks to tech from the capitalistic West. The Chinese literally sold Chinese made Iphones at 100 USD, so I am not surprised that Belarussians could afford Belorussian cars. Those are cheaper than, say, German imported cars, but they work anyway so why not. But the technology for those cars were imported directly from Italy or Germany, and those cars were older models.

Rich Belarussians of course drive Germans and Italians imported from abroad. A Rolls-Royce model 2000 is a Rolls Royce too, just feels a bit weird. People in America begin to run Tesla electric cars already. Back to Belarus, they of course produce some machinery of all sort, good and bad. Just like China. But the most advanced technology always comes from the West. Belarus has lower cost.

Before China opened up to the world(the West), a Chinese household needed 800 USD to 1000 USD and political connection to set up a home telephone line, the same for North Korea for example. I bet the price in North Korea is much lower now. Mobile service providers now beg me to buy the newest(older) tech from America, I love that.

Ever wonder why Putin has been trying so hard to get sanctions lifted off? He needed tech from the West. Communism = sclerosis. And by the way, Sweden is the role model the Chinese want for themselves. Funny to see you bash it that much. You can’t have it all. Choose 2: Prosperity, Diversity, Free Speech.

Surveys across Eastern Europe repeatedly show that high percentages, often majorities, of people say that life was better under Communism that it is today under capitalism. I’m not sure what that means, but it sounds like a lot of people like Communism and even prefer it over capitalism.

Almost no one can afford to buy a car in the US. They’re too expensive, and the number of people having $20,000 sitting around to buy a new car is very low. So they borrow the money at high interest to buy the car. You miss a few payments, and they come take car away. I suppose if you want to make cars so that everyone can buy one, maybe people do have to wait in line. I mean could the US produce 230 million cars to sell them to every US adult at a price they could easily afford such as say $300-400? That’s what the USSR was doing. No wonder you had to stand in line.

I don’t agree the Communists always produce junk products.

Cubans have made many dramatic innovations in the nickel and sugar industries on their very own. Cuban cigars produced in state firms are still of excellent quality and are sought after all over the world. Cuba has a world-class biotechnology industry that must compete with capitalist firms in the international market. Hence their stuff has to be good, or it won’t be able to compete at all. Their biotech products are purchased all over the world, and they compete well with capitalist companies.

If you force state enterprises to compete in world markets, it’s sink or swim. If they produce crap, they go out. They will have to compete with capitalist firms, and that means making good stuff for competitive prices. Hence I like the idea of state firms being forced to compete on the world markets. That way they cannot produce junk.

It’s not true that Communist countries produced nothing but crap. A friend of mine has a radio made in Czechoslovakia in the 1970’s. It is of fine quality, and it still works to this very day 50 years later. It’s never broken. Chinese fans made 30 years ago still work to this very day.

The Communist attitude was that they did not want to produce crap that broke right away because that way they would spend all their time re-manufacturing the same products over and over. So with a lot of products, the attitude was “built to last.” The quality may not have been superb, but it was generally adequate. So they produced average quality products that were built to last decades.

I don’t bash Sweden. I’m not sure if Sweden is really the Chinese model.

After all, the Chinese are doing State Capitalism. 45% of the economy is made up of state firms. How is the Chinese economy booming if half the economy is state firms? Shouldn’t it be sclerotic? Shouldn’t every Chinese person be dirt poor? Shouldn’t all Chinese products be junk? The commenter says that Communism makes everyone poor, is sclerotic, and creates nothing but junk products. How come that’s not true in China?

I have a friend in Slovakia. His father told him that when Slovakia went from Communism to capitalism in the 1990’s, many of the father’s friends committed suicide in the first 10 years of capitalism. Now why was that? Did they do it too fast? How can the commenter support something that caused so many suicides? Is he happy when people die? The commenter is willing to more or less kill lots of people just so you can get he can get his cool stuff?

My friend also showed me Google Earth photo of his small town in Slovakia. It was very nice. The architecture, design and general layout was very nice, with this sort of quaint European style. I told my friend that, and he said, “Yes, and all of that layout, design and architecture was built under Communism. The capitalists are not building anything good here.”

In Slovakia, housing tracts were built consisting of family homes with small yards. They somewhat resembled a stripped down suburban tract in the US. I have seen photos of these homes. The homes and yards aren’t fantastic, but they are perfectly adequate. You probably had to wait in line, but the houses were priced at a low rate. In addition, there was really no way whatsoever that a family could lose its house. It wasn’t possible. Wouldn’t that be great to have a house where the monthly payments were quite affordable and not only that but you were guaranteed never to lose the house no matter what?

29 Comments

Filed under Asia, Belarus, Capitalism, Caribbean, Cuba, Economics, Eurasia, Europe, Latin America, Left, Marxism, Regional, Russia, Socialism, Sweden, USA, USSR

29 responses to “Countering Some Anti-Communist Lies

  1. Jason Y

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_Bye,_Lenin%21

    This movie seemed to say that a lot of people led stable and happy lives, even though at times bland ones, under Communism. I suppose it’s like a Jehovah’s Witness like existance.

    • Jason Y

      How about a Communism that wasn’t so bland, maybe with some color? No I don’t mean as in race, but maybe more flashy and cool buildings and clothes and cars.

      Someone though told me the image of Communism as being something off a Halloween show, was propoganda by the west.

  2. Jason Y

    In Slovakia, housing tracts were built consisting of family homes with small yards. They somewhat resembled a stripped down suburban tract in the US. I have seen photos of these homes. The homes and yards aren’t fantastic, but they are perfectly adequate. You probably had to wait in line, but the houses were priced at a low rate. In addition, there was really no way whatsoever that a family could lose its house. It wasn’t possible. Wouldn’t that be great to have a house where the monthly payments were quite affordable and not only that but you were guaranteed never to lose the house no matter what?

    Well, actually the government housing in the US has rent that averages 100 dollars or less a month. However, you often have to live in neighborhoods with undesireable elements.

    Generally in the US, government housing is seen as being for losers, but is that just more capitalist pie in the sky propoganda?

  3. A lot of the problem in Eastern Europe was that in the early 1970s there were crop failures. When you’re not trading/producing for yourself, it can be a negative, in that production across all facets of what is required for society are not the same.

    For instance, if Nation A produces Buses at 2/hour, and train cars at 3/hour
    while Nation B produces buses at 3/hour and train cars at 2/hour, wouldn’t they stand to gain by trade?

    The society may be to function alone, BUT when production is decreased due to something like famine, as what occurred in the 1970s in EE, it all comes crashing down.

    Leftism in my opinion should be protection from failures/ ‘abuses’, in essence to ensure a free market is not destroyed by outside factors….
    this would be like a French/Swedish model.

    I will say Cuba is doing pretty good, on indicators, though, for whatever reason.

    • Jason Y

      In the case of the Soviet Union, also a lot of income was spent on the military (to counter the US), draining funds from other things.

  4. Incentive primarily seems to come from the free market, I can tell you this because of my family’s experiences in a Communist Country.

    That being said, Monetarism/Thatcherism/stagnation is NOT giving people incentive to do just about anything (like design pretty buildings seen in Slovakia).

  5. AngryRussian

    It is very important to discriminate between the Eastern Bloc and the USSR itself. And inside of them there was also disparity. People in Eastern Germany and Czechoslovakia lived very comfortable and relaxed lives, not much worse than in the West, however in the Balkans it might not be so well (but that’s hardly different from today). In the USSR, the Baltic republics had the highest living standards in the Union, they lived literally like in the West, but only inside of the USSR. Not so well, but still comfortable life was in Ukraine and Transcaucasia (Georgia, etc.). Central Asia was always backward, but billions of rubles from Moscow were invested into there to develop those republics. The RSFSR, in turn, was a hardworking but deprived Cinderella among the Soviet republics, many places there were really highly deprived and decaying, people always lacked goods, deficit for everything was a reality of everyday life. So among all of the former Communist nations, only Russians in the RSFSR had real reasons not to like the Communists as they literally deprived Russians of a better life, spending money on everybody but Russians. While all the others, from Eastern Germany to Georgia must have had no real reasons to hate Communism, despite what they say today that they all opposed the system. Despite the current anti-Communist propaganda the Communists of Eastern Europe hardly caused any harm. It was Russians who really suffered under Communism, from millions of deaths from the Civil War and subsequent famines to millions of repressed, jailed and killed under Stalin, not to count the famines in the 1930s and right after WWII. Only under Khrushchev and Brezhnev Russians could live decent lives, but that were just 25 happy years out of 75. The short (really it was just mere 15 years) Brezhnev era was the Golden period of the USSR. Most older Soviet people who have nostalgia do not want the USSR per se, they just like those 15 or 25 years, when they were young and happy and the future seemed to be promising. With all its negatives the current life in capitalist Russia is the best of the last 100 years, few really want the USSR back, even the USSR of Brezhnev.

    • Optimus Prime

      Angry Russian, how do Russians view stalin these days, is there visceral antipathy for stalin still? How do they view people who have soft spot for him. I heard theories that stalin was a Jew. Is there any truth to it? I verified some sources to know if he was of Jewish descent but they were all flimsy. According to sources I rereferrehe was a ethnic Georgian. I guess Putin is no fan of stalin or communism. Does yourr governnent wants to erase the history of stalin for what he has done?

      • AngryRussian

        There are at least 120 adult Russians and every of them might have their own opinion so it’s hard to make generalizations. Some Russians do not like Stalin at all, especially “liberals” and anti-Soviet nationalists. Some may like Stalin for some things, but blame and hate him for other things. There are, of course, some crazy real Stalinists, but they are nuts and mostly old. But the majority I’m sure simply do not care. But even if some Russians may like Stalin, it does not mean they want repressions and Gulag back. Stalin is now more like a symbol.
        I advise you to read this.
        http://www.unz.com/akarlin/tribal-stalinism/
        Though I do not agree with everything, the author has made a good point.

  6. AngryRussian

    You said: “I mean could the US produce 230 million cars to sell them to every US adult at a price they could easily afford such as say $300-400? That’s what the USSR was doing. No wonder you had to stand in line.”
    The average salary in 1980 in the USSR was 175 rubles. The average price of the most popular car VAZ 2106 (a Soviet modification of outdated Fiat 124 from 1966) was 9,600 rubles. That is 4.5 annual salaries. How many average annual salaries did an outdated car cost in the USA in 1980? The average annual income was $12,500, the average car price was around $7,000. That is an American Joe Doe just had to work less than a year to buy a car. Not to mention that a Soviet citizen, unlike an American one, could not just go to a shop and just buy a car. He had to write himself into the official queue and wait his turn. Sooner or later, when his turn came, he could buy a car, but it might last years.

    But that was not only about such “luxury” as cars. People also had problems with buying motorcycles,TVs, fridges, washing and sewing machines, clothes, good food and so on. Either such goods were simply absent in the shops or you had to wait in the queue. And everything was costly. The constant shortage of everything was the most prominent fact of the Soviet life and the skill of “getting” food and goods was vital for Soviet citizens. Americans cannot really imagine that, it is out of their understanding and any life experience.

  7. Jason Y

    Ok, either AngryRussian or Robert is right. Any links to back up anything?

    • AngryRussian

      I got the numbers for the salaries and the car prices from open sources. You can google them yourself, though for the USSR you might have to know Russian. As for other things you can just simply ask any Russian in America who is older than 40 years old. What I’ve said everybody in Russia and the former SU knows, it is not a secret knowledge. Note I’m not an anti-Communist, I’m neutral, there were good things and bad things back then, but when it goes to obvious facts I can’t help but only say the truth. But Robert is also right in some ways. The USSR had its own merits.

  8. “Cuba has a world-class biotechnology industry that must compete with capitalist firms in the international market. Hence their stuff has to be good, or it won’t be able to compete at all.”

    So what you’re saying is they are benefiting from competition with private firms lol.

  9. Saxohermeticus

    Thoughts on communism, capitalism and private debt

    There were only two historically highly industrialized communist countries: Czechoslovakia and GDR. So it would be fair to choose them for a comparison with the West.

    Communist economy wasn’t very effective. But an economic system, which guaranties labour for everybody, can’t be as effective as capitalism in the first place. So the crucial question is: What was the outcome for the populace?

    In communism infrastructure and standard of living was on average lower. On the other hand there was no extreme or wide spread poverty.

    Furthermore many important services were free for everybody: especially education and health care: Things, which can be very, very expensive in the West.

    And there is a factor that troubles me most: Private debt. While private debt was more or less unknown in communism, private households in the West are moaning under their debt burden. How to rate this? If houses, cars and air travels are mostly unearned, the differences between capitalism and communism are melting away.

    On the other hand: In contrast to communism Western societies are able to provide houses, cars and air travels. A systemic superiority?

  10. Actually Pretty Funny

    Well, let me tell you this: last time I see, the Cubans still use typewriters.

    Of course one would come up with some pretty innovations on his own, like the Russians did Sputnik, but Vietnamese students in Soviet Russia used to buy Russian girls with Chinese made jeans. What’s the point of launching satellites into space without being able to make your own jeans? You can live a secluded life, totally on your own, but you can’t force it down everyone else throat.

    Nat Geo once shows Russian Car Factory, and it’s imported wholesale from Italy. If Belorussian cars were any better, they would have exported the factory to Russia. But they didn’t. The OLD industry of Ukraine is heavily concentrated in Eastern Ukraine, supported more or less by Russia. And it’s pretty useless by Western standards, or even by Polish standards.

    The West of Ukraine had nothing until recently, and they geared heavily toward IT. That’s why West Ukraine is fonder with EU than East. But East Ukraine can do OK without Russia too. You don’t even take into account regional differences. You only care for “your” guys, “your” side of the story. You only want Ukraine to be dirt poor, to be your disciples of Communism.

    I said Communism needed a homogeneous society for that very reason. East Ukraine has to subdue West Ukraine to make it work.

  11. Actually Pretty Funny

    Made Your own jeans, for your own people. 3 years ago, one Vietnamese guy in Cuba told his sister, my friend, the same story: He made a fortune by smuggling clothes into Cuba, and had a new girlfriend every week. Each for one piece of clothes.

  12. Actually Pretty Funny

    Of course, in the 1950s the Soviets came up with some very nice idea, neat stuffs because Russians are never dumb to begin with. But a Soviet Russian scientist/ inventor could never, on his/her own, commercialize his/her own thing(s) on his/her own. Sometimes, many times, they needed/still need political connections.

    Many inventions, although being invented even before the West, never made it to the wider public because the maker of it hadn’t have good connections, or in favor with the higher-ups. The situation has been improved, but the “connections” you still need. That’s why being KGB is a proud family tradition there, you have all the connections you need in life.

    Said above guy never come back home. He had it better there in Cuba being one of the new class of businessmen.

  13. Actually Pretty Funny

    Since East Ukrainians were quite tired of the own industry, when people of other regions rose up, they didn’t even lift their hands. Being privileged with useless industry is not very fun, people still had to pay for the old (mis)management Soviet class. Of course they would have fought tooth and nail to protect the system 20 years ago, since the industry was still quite new by Soviet standards back then.

    But time changes, and people evolve. I mean Poland has evolved and has become a role model. People tend to look around and up.

  14. Actually Pretty Funny

    Every Vietnamese American I know owns car(s), so I have that illusion. Sorry, my population sample is different to yours.
    It’s feel a bit weird knowing that not every American owns car. Many of the Vietnamese I know, those who own car(s), work in the nail “industry”. That industry called dirty, low-caste, and in Vietnam is seen as reserved for lazy people. They call such people “hungry dogs”. Not me, I am humanist.
    So to be frank, Americans who don’t own car(s), in my eyes, are even lazier than our laziest.
    Again, Belarus is homogenous with a small population. Ukraine isn’t. So I am right all along. The exception proves the rule.
    People from some island chased off Maduro perhaps because they had been better off before Chavismo:
    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/04/world/americas/venezuelan-president-is-chased-by-angry-protesters.html?_r=0
    Can’t expect islanders to act and think the same as people from the inland.

    • Look man I am banning you and it’s about time. You are an anticommunist fanatic, and many of the things you say are flat-out lies. I don’t have time to go chasing all of your anticommunist lies all over the place.

      I’m getting tired of your endless rightwing rants on here.

  15. Actually Pretty Funny

    I forgot that people from North Vietnam tend to call nail workers lazy. And you praise those “n’eur do good” as smart cookies.
    Things like that, you Socialists/Communists can’t even sort out between yourself. So in this case which socialist is the One, you or the Vietcong? Nail workers are lazy or are they not?

    • Look man, I am getting really tired of you. I am banning you Viet ass. Now get out. Of course you are a rightwing who hates poor people, calls them lazy and says they deserve to be poor and if they only tried harder, they could get rich like everyone else. You can’t do that on here. You can’t attack working class or poor people for not having a lot of money, you can’t people who have more money are better human beings than those who have less money or anything like that.

    • See you hate socialism too, presumably all kinds of socialism. This makes sense as you are an anti-Communist fanatic and most such people don’t just hate Communism (a legitimate position) but they also hate any sort of socialism or usually even liberalism. Most even hate the Democratic Party.

  16. APF

    You are quite unreasonable.

    Saigon under the rain.

    Of course people live to, Socialists have roads too, but…A large chunk of the money was cut before being pumped into the economy. I don’t hate Lukashenko, but you need to know that Socialism only works in very, very, rare cases. And you don’t even know what like underneath. Do Belarus have road problems, of course you don’t know. You need photo for it to work.

    In Vietnam, the Vietcong had to scare the Indians, the Chinese to quit the country to somewhat make it work. See photo above.

    • The problem with this argument is that this is just another anti-Communist lie, I believe. I think Vietnam has always had flooding like that when they get monsoon rains. Philippines looks the same. I remember seeing pictures of streets flooded like that even back during the Vietnam War. I assume that this is just what happens when you live in a tropical jungle with typhoons, monsoons and whatnot.

  17. APF

    The problem is the middle of the city was originally designed by Frenchies, and it had never been flooded. I heard your argument too.
    Let me clarify, since there was no regulation for 30 years, people built, and built and built with permission from their political connections, until there is nore more land left for the water to reach the water-table. Moreover, the water for that is lackluster. And since everyone has political connections, everyone has built, except my family who was kinda…samurai.
    People endure, of course, pretending that’s life is beautiful in that wretched condition. Until the infrastructure collapses totally, and then the political chaos comes like in East Europe and Russia of the 1990s. And then depressed and enraged people kill each other heartily, like in Russia.
    The middle of the city:

  18. APF

    Funds for Water drainage is lackluster

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