The Homeland and Southward Journey of the Indo-Aryans

Varun writes:

You believe in OIT (aka Out of India theory of Aryan migrations)?

I used to believe that Aryans could possibly have originated in Southern-Central Asia, i.e just above Kashmir. Now I even don’t believe that, as Dravidians are actually Central Asians, possibly of Near Eastern origin. Aryans are way up the globe, somewhere around Russian Steppes. It is impossible to pin point exact location. They are subsumed among us.

The Indo-Aryan Homeland is in the area where northwestern Kazakhstan meets southwestern Russia near the southern end of the Urals close to Baskkoria and the Tatar Republic. I had a map of it that I had drawn for this site a while back. They were up there around 4,500 YBP probably. Between 4,500 BP and 3,500 BP, they moved south, eventually occupying the Indus River Valley. We can actually follow their migration every step of the way and yes, On the way down, they settled in Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Tajikistan, (here one arm, Indo-Iranian, branches off over to Iran and Afghanistan) and the Chitral up in the Northwest Territories of Pakistan over and across Gilgit and the north of Pakistani Punjab and Pakistani Kashmir to the Indus River Valley into Punjab, Kashmir, etc. where they settled. A number of these people along the way – the Tajiks, many Pakistanis, and the northwest Indians are all heavily Aryan. Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan are also heavily Aryan although the Aryan is heavily mixed with Mongol.

BMAC was one of the areas where they lived on the way down.


Filed under Afghanistan, Anthropology, Antiquity, Asia, Asians, East Indians, History, India, Iran, Kashmir, Near East, Pakistan, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, South Asia, South Asians, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan

24 responses to “The Homeland and Southward Journey of the Indo-Aryans

  1. Varun

    Yes, BMAC is also the area where Aryans (Indo-Iranians) picked up Soma cult – an intoxicating drink possibly made of Ephedra. Since we don’t have Ephedra in India, now we use Bhaang (made from Ganja) instead of Soma.

    In fact, some of the Brahmins were also picked up from BMAC area since Aryans were predominantly warriors, and the spilt between Brahmin Aryan and Kshatriya Aryan took place soon after leaving BMAC as well. Hence, Iranians don’t have the exact classification of castes as Indians do.

  2. Varun

    But I don’t agree with the exact location, Robert. I mean, if Aryans were living on the northern peripheries of Central Asia as you posit, then they must have been relatively darker, almost like Afghans of today. So Europeans must have gotten progressively fairer in last 5000 years only.

    Second problem is Ukrainian farmers. Ukraine had farming societies, a collection of village communities which was supposed to be overran by the Aryans in a series of violent invasions, though not always. This is confirmed by the fact that Saami languages have a term’ Oryo’, meaning ‘Southerner’ referring to Aryans. Now this may refer to Aryans who were already in Ukrain? Or was it a reference for the previous nomadic Aryans? So they are not necessarily the PIE people nor the Aryans who landed in BMAC, and if that is the case, then when and where was the the exact split between PIE and Indo-Iranians, i.e Aryans!!!

    • Varun

      A similar problem plagues the arrival of Aryans in India. The society described in Rg Veda (RV) is predominantly nomadic with little allusion to village life, and very little allusion to towns. Now Aryans lived in town-like settlements of Ukraine, then BMAC, and then Indus Valley Civilization (IVC), which was heavily urban. Sure, not all Aryans lived in IVC, but they were in BMAC which was contemporary to late IVC period. So Aryan must have picked up some traits pertaining to town life. But we don’t see anything in RV.

      Then there are famous retroflexes in RV Sanskrit, rarely found outside the Subcontinent. So by the time RV was composed, between 17-13 century BC, Aryans were already Dravidians, or they had already acculturated large number of Indian locals who spoke a language with retroflexes. This point is actually favorite of all OIT believers as it is one of the soundest point to counter AIT.

      Witzel proposed para-Munda tribes, living between BMAC and IVC, who got acculturated first before Aryans met Dravidians in 13 century BC or later. These Munda languages had retroflexes too, in fact, Dravidians picked up retroflexes from Mundas, a theory which makes a lot of sense if proved. There are Munda looking Brahmins for sure, in Sindh, Rajasthan, and Gujarat. So Mundas were not complete tribal fools as often believed (In fact, old Indian system of coins, known as aana system comes from Munda tribes, not Dravidian. This system has base 20, so 20 cent is 1 aana, and 4 aana or 80 cents is 1 dollar, like that). This is also the base of my claim that Dravidians are invaders or immigrants who took over small Munda communities in Afghanistan-Pakistan and started building IVC. Even today, some Austric-like, but non-Dravidian tribes, of Gujarat are exceptional at cotton weaving or bead making (Google ‘dhed caste of Gujarat’).

      • Dravidian people had to have migrated from some tropical place because anybody who has been to Cochin sees how Asiatic they are. No way that they evolved in Kashmir or Central Asia. That’s ludicrous.

        Did some eventually settle as far North as Gujarat or the Sindhi river. Undoubtedly, but probably these settlements were sparse.

        • Varun


          If Aryans can get subsumed among Dravidians, why can’t Dravidians be absorbed by the Asiatic locals same way? The transition of Indians from Austro-Asiatic to Caucasiods could have also started when Dravidians started mixing with the native making them Caucasiods progressively. This process is in full swing now. Two of my class mate, both Brahmin girls, married dark Dalits and their children both are Caucasiods and fairer than I am. Both these women are good looking but not as hot as Bollywood actresses (so I never felt jealous, LOL).

          Coming back to Dravidians, I forgot to mention another scholar, Southworth, who also claim Dravidians to be Central Asian or even BMAC people.

        • Varun


          Even if you believe that the Dravidians migrated from a tropic climate, there are lots of warmer places in Near East. Elam, for example, is located in South Iran. Elam also means home in Tamil language of Sri Lanka. Then if you go further towards western Iran, the belt below Zegro mountain is a bit tropical, though slightly colder than India. Even today, middle-caste Dravidians hate Dalits and call them Adi-Dravida (primitiv- Dravidians). Note, the etymological similarity between Adi and Adam.

          You have Dravidians becoming exceptionally civilized in 3000 BC. Then in 19th century AD, 35℅ of Dravidians start living in jungles? How can civilized Dravidians go back to jungles and start rubbing snakes on their bodies to cure diseases? 95℅ of Dravidians have no memory of Indus Valley Culture. What is the reason behind this collective amnesia? Because 5℅ of Dravidians built IVC by employing cheap labour of Adi-Dravida. Then, some of these locals rebelled against Dravidian elite, so Dravidians invited Aryans living in neighbouring BMAC to control the situation. Then Dravidians elite started mixing with Aryans. So those who formed kinship with Aryans adopted Sanskrit (these are some of the early Tamil and Gujarati Brahmins), and those who were just small time employees of Aryans retained Dravidians tounges. Later, there was more language shift in North India as more hordes of invaders arrived and conquered and displaced more locals. (Indo-Aryan Gujarati language has more retroflexes from Dravidian than are found in Sanskrit or Hindi, pointing to earliest Gujju Brahmins being a mixture of Dravidians and locals, who then mixed with some Aryans, adopting Sanskrit).

          So when Aryans conquered Dravidians, the Dravidians conquered other Indian natives. Mystery solved.

      • KsytriaKhalsa

        Pratilom marriage is banned, why are you allowing this dirty melech?

        Brahmin woman could look like elephant & donkey, still cannot marry dalit or melech.

        Dirty Saurastha Brahmin, trash.

        • calling people a melech just makes you look like some radical fanatical psychopath. I dare you to go to America or Australia and call a white person a melech, untouchable, to their face. They’ll probably just laugh at your scrawny weak ass, I doubt they’d even give a shit enough to give you the beating you deserve.

        • Goras do not care what a Sikh thinks or what they say-this bearded warrior cult of Arabs.

          They have fared badly in Canada in comparison to other races such as the Chinese. Their warrior code morphs into cheap petty gangster antics in Surrey, Vancouver or Brampton, Ontario.

          U.S. has seemingly attracted Gujji businessmen and Black Dravidian IT dorks in addition to some very high-caste Punjabi Hindus.

          Bangladeshis, who poured into the UK and now fill its streets with crime and vice, were never allowed into the U.S. in the first place anyhow.

        • Varun

          If pratiloma is banned, why did Sikhs allowed widow marriage? In fact, they fought for it, didn’t they?

    • That location near the city of Samsara is not even in dispute. There are archeological sites there. In fact, the native peoples at the southern end of the Urals are quite fair skinned. Go there and walk around and tell me what people look like.

    • Varun, if you are really rich enough to start your own company there in New Zealand, you might want to donate to the site. After all, we are giving you a forum to post your very learned and well-written views here. You ought to help out some of us poor motherfuckers.

      • Varun

        Sure, give me a week or two, unless you are looking for small donation like Wikipedia. “Oh if everyone donated a coffee money, our mission will be over in a day,” LOL.

        • TYT. Of course small donations are appreciated but honestly they are not that helpful. It’s not like there’s 100 people a month donating $3. Instead it’s maybe one if I am lucky.

          So sure, take your time and a week or two would be great. I think I am still $85 behind in bills this month.

        • Varun

          Sure, come November and I will get you out of your 85 dollar debt.

          Have you considered affiliate marketing? Help sell the books of some scholars on the stuff that you write.

  3. Sure, but WordPress will not let us carry ads. I would have to get off WP and go to my own server to do that.

    Thanks, that would help so much.

    • You can do what some bloggers do which is to take their top 10 or 15 best articles/essays and publish them on Kindle or some book format as “Selected Essays”. All you have to do is drop the link on your articles and request people to buy your book, so no need for affiliate banner ads or anything

  4. The true Aryans ate the Yamna who originated in the Russian steppe. They didn’t originate in India. They migrated TO India which is why some Indian populations as well as the Kalash and Nuristani show phenotypic similarity to Europeans (however the Kalash cluster with south Asians and not Europeans).

    They originated in the Russian steppe, not India.

  5. KsytriaKhalsa

    PIE Heterozygous Dominant for Light Skin & Eye.

    Making them tan skin dark eye & hair like Afghan.

    In Europe they became Heterozygous Recessive or Homozygous Recessive meaning blond hair.

    In Southern region they remain Heterozygous dominant. It’s that simple,

    Euros are lighter than PIE because EHG also had light skin mutation & in other areas only the one mutation transferred leading to Brown tan skin & black brown eyes.

    Also possible that Persian Gulf had older Arya population now under water. It’s plausible because oldest R1a found in Punjab Sindh.

    Either way, they’re not white & it’s not blond blue eye German writing Vedas.

    We’re Aryas & robert + ilk are melech being wiped off planet. 🙂

    Just describing people as whites, blacks, yellows, browns seemed horribly backwards to me. Guess a people with no tribe, nation, or culture for identity resorts to color based. 🙂

    • Salger

      You’re speaking English and using the White man’s technology. And non-Europeans have repeatedly lost in war when not aided by other Europeans.

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