The Alt Left, Leftypol and Third Positionism

Nebulous Maximus: I’ve noticed the Alt-Left group on Facefuck seems like it’s settled into being a /leftypol/ kind of crowd…mostly Socialists, Social Democrats and even Anarcho-Communists who happen to have a disdain for SJW’s and IdPol bullshit. But few people seem to want to touch HBD issues at all. I dunno, to me HBD seems like an effective normie-repellent. The Alt Left becomes a lot lest Alt in groups that are unwilling to at least entertain HBD issues.

As you may be aware, I started a movement called Liberal Race Realism a long time ago, maybe seven years ago. It was notable mostly for being a complete failure. It was a disaster. Basically nobody signed onto it. The few people who called themselves Liberal Race Realists assembled in the Comments Section and hurled racist rhetoric at each other forever. The whole idea of Liberal Race Realism was that antiracism was supposed to be a component. Well, antiracism and HBD go mix like oil and water – they don’t mix at all. Liberal Race Realism collapsed under the crushing weight of its own contradictions.

 

Nebulous Maximus: So the question is, is /leftpol/ culture even Alt Left or is it just a Cultural Libertarian -meets- Social Democratic movement?

Some say that leftypol is a type of Alt Left, but their only known position on the Alt Left is that we can go to Hell, so I am thinking that whatever they are, they are not us.

Just for the record, leftypol has linked to my website and Rabbit’s in the early days when we were the only ones. They absolutely hated both of us and called us fascists and the usual crap. I think maybe they called us National Bolsheviks or Third Positionists, whom they hate.

Third Positionists also linked here and were a lot more positive, but some of them really hated the race stuff because as 3P’s, they were only into nationalism, and they figure a nationalist of any X nation can be of any Y race. In other words, race is irrelevant to nationalism. They added a well known photo of a Black man who lives in Brittany and dresses in traditional Breton garb that looks rather unusual because you never see people dressed like that. Closest thing might be Scottish Celtic dress such as kilts and knee-high socks. The implication being there is no such thing as a racial Breton if a Black man can be a Breton.

They were more positive about Rabbit’s site and they described me as somewhere in between leftypol and 3P but closer to 3P at times. As a leftwing nationalist, that would probably be correct. Leftypol rejects me heatedly and says I am not one of them so I guess I am out with those guys, and I don’t really identify with 3P which sounds fash to me. I’m a nationalist, but I don’t like fash, and no, that’s not a contradiction. I believe you can be a nationalist without being fash, and I assume that is what a leftwing nationalist is.

Nebulous Maximus: I do understand the existential threat that a friendly stance toward HBD poses; go deep enough down that rabbit hole, and it starts unraveling the massive rat’s nest of fallacies the past century or so of the Left’s egalitarianism orthodoxy completely depends on.

It’s fine with me to unravel these fallacies, but I think they are going to stick around a long time anyway. People just don’t want to believe HBD. They simply cannot handle  it. As long as they cannot handle it, they will keep throwing up the fallacies forever.

Nebulous Maximus: And then of course there’s the obvious, as Robert has pointed out so many times, HBD attracts the deplorables crowd like maggots on dog shit. But…in the end, the truth is the truth, as ugly as it is. It’s a very rare breed that can handle inconvenient truths in a responsible manner.

It’s hard to find an HBD’er who is not some sort of deplorable. I hope I’m one of those rare breeds. Tulio is a great example of a Black HBD’er who has not gone nuts.

Finding Left HBD’ers is quite uncommon. I don’t like the liberal HBD bloggers like Jayman because for starters, they are not very liberal. When leftwingers do go HBD, they typically become a lot less leftwing over time. There is something about HBD that seems to destroy any progressive thinking. It’s like pouring anti-progressive corrosive into your brain. It’s as if the human brain can be either HBD or progressive, but it can’t be both.

Nearly every HBD’er who comes here is a rightwinger – usually a Libertarian, loves capitalism, and embraces Social Darwinism as a religion. I might add that they are a particularly vicious type of rightwinger, as many HBD’ers’ ideas for how to deal with “inferior” races including phasing them out, withholding food and medicine from them until they all die, throwing them out of the country, or some sort of segregation. They seem to think that mercy is some suicidal form of weakness and they say just this many times. Even most conservatives aren’t that ugly. HBD’ers are nastier than even 90% of conservatives. Vicious little shits, most of them.

Also almost all HBD’ers with the notable exception of Race Realist here are hard hereditarians. They always say that they believe that both environment and genes play a role in phenotypic behavioral expression, but then whenever you throw up any environmental evidence for behavioral variation, they jump up and shoot it down. So I think they just say “environment is part of the picture” as rhetorical cover because when you get down to the nitty-gritty, most of them seem to allow no room for environmental effects on behavior at all. Even culture does nothing because culture is entirely mediated by genes.

It’s such crap. I’m an HBD’er, but I am a soft HBD’er. Soft HBD is the only thing that makes sense. Anything more implies that humans lack willpower or even agency. It’s absurd.

 

19 Comments

Filed under Conservatism, Fascism, Left, Liberalism, Libertarianism, Nationalism, Political Science, Race Realism, Race/Ethnicity, Racism

19 responses to “The Alt Left, Leftypol and Third Positionism

  1. “Also almost all HBD’ers with the notable exception of Race Realist here are hard hereditarians. They always say that they believe that both environment and genes play a role in phenotypic behavioral expression, but then whenever you throw up any environmental evidence for behavioral variation, they jump up and shoot it down. So I think they just say “environment is part of the picture” as rhetorical cover because when you get down to the nitty-gritty, most of them seem to allow no room for environmental effects on behavior at all. Even culture does nothing because culture is entirely mediated by genes.”

    With all due respect, Robert, it’s not quite that simple. You may even have it backwards.
    https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/03/19/why-low-heritability-for-iq-would-be-good-news-for-white-racists/

  2. Jason Y

    Yeah, as I was saying in a comment on another post, “Compassion and racism, or HBD for that matter, just doesn’t mix.”. Compassionate racism is a contradiction in terms.

  3. James Schipper

    Dear Robert

    There is nothing contradictory about liberal race realism. Its tenets can be summed up as follows:

    1 – Races are real biological categories, but racial classifications are to some extent arbitrary, and racial perceptions are to some extent influenced by cultural factors.
    2 – Races are not equal, but we all belong to the human species, and the differences within races are much larger than the differences between races. There is a lot of overlap.
    3 – Racial homogeneity within a country is an advantage because it makes racial strife impossible, but once a country has become multiracial, it should strive to attain harmonious relations between the races.
    4 – Members of all races should have the same rights and duties, and be judged by the same standards.
    5 – Members of all races should be free to associate with each other. The government shall not impose segregation or forbid interracial marriages.
    6 – The government should not have any official racial classifications, nor have a policy of promoting racial diversity within certain institutions.
    7 – Racial discrimination, also by businesses, should be forbidden, but there shall not be any quotas. The notion of systemic racism should be rejected as invalid, and disparate impact should not be seen as proof of racism.

    Regards. James

    • Tulio

      On point 3, racial homogeneity still does not guarantee peace. If the world was only one race, people would start fighting each other over something else. Think about how many wars have been fought between groups of people negligible genetic difference, if any. Catholic Irish vs Protestants, Germans vs English, Khmer Rouge, Navajos vs Hopis, Tutsis vs Hutus, Saudi Arabia bombing Yemen right now, the Clusterfuck that is Syria.

      • To Tulio, exactly. What he should’ve meant was cultural homogenity.

        While there is still a biological aspect to it, it’s overall more phenotypical than merely gentoypical.

        e.i- I believe it’s been mentioned of a scenario where wns would welcome NE asians over certain Caucasian subgroups.

      • I think its more accurate to say there is less chance of civil war in an ethnically homogeneous country. Several of your examples involved civil conflict between two different cultural, religious or ethnic groups of the same race.

        I can’t think of an instance of a civil war that purely because two racial groups lived together.

      • James Schipper

        Dear Tulio

        You are 100% correct, but you refuted something that I didn’t say. I only said that a country will not be afflicted with racial strife if it enjoys racial homogeneity. It may of course be afflicted by various other types of conflict. The entire European history of the last 2 millennia is eloquent testimony to the fact that racial homogeneity is not sufficient to create a conflict-free continent. It wasn’t racial diversity that made Europeans kill each other in large numbers in WWI and WWII.

        Regards. James

      • Jason Y

        Yeah, definitely Amerindians provide insight into this, and also what we saw between the French and English, Japanese and Koreans. Members of one race don’t love each other. Actually, in reality most of the hate is nation-based. People of a particular nation love each other, and hate, distrust other nations (tribes).

        Nation is not race, but rather tribe, and tribe narrows down to particular people, not a whole skin color.

    • Brian Damage

      I am saving your post to my archive. What an excellent post. In No. 2 you said “Races are not equal, but we all belong to the human species, and the differences within races are much larger than the differences between races. There is a lot of overlap.” That is so correct. That’s where racial purists get it wrong. I think two IQ120 persons of different racial backgrounds but with similar opportunities are more in common than an IQ120 and an IQ95 from the same race but with dissimilar opportunities.

      We should just eliminate any artificial barriers based on assumed racial superiority and let nature takes its course. In the end , the smarter, the more determined, the delayed gratification, the one with work ethic will rise to the top. The last thing we need is for someone who feels entitled to be on top just because of race.

  4. iffen

    “HBD attracts the deplorables crowd like maggots on dog shit.”
    Flies are attracted to dog shit, not maggots, and although flies are attracted to dog shit they seldom lay eggs there, which is why one hardly ever sees maggots in dog shit but in carrion.

    Your point is informative and valid. HBD fits like a tailored glove on racist ideologies. Racists and racist ideologies are massive and abundant and dwarf any non-racist viewpoint.

    A non-racist, HBD informed ideology will be, if it ever fully develops, what some of the people here make it.

  5. Jason Y

    Nearly every HBD’er who comes here is a rightwinger – usually a Libertarian, loves capitalism, and embraces Social Darwinism as a religion. I might add that they are a particularly vicious type of rightwinger, as many HBD’ers’ ideas for how to deal with “inferior” races including phasing them out, withholding food and medicine from them until they all die, throwing them out of the country, or some sort of segregation. They seem to think that mercy is some suicidal form of weakness and they say just this many times. Even most conservatives aren’t that ugly. HBD’ers are nastier than even 90% of conservatives. Vicious little shits, most of them.

    Exactly it’s racism devoid of any compassion, unlike what we saw in the antebellum South where at least some could argue slavery kept the blacks out of trouble, gave them something useful to do, gave them physical exercise etc… However, note the slavery in Haiti etc.. was massively worse than in the US.

    • Jason Y

      Note possibly this HBD social darwinism has mostly arisen out of the fact the NAMS, in their mind, don’t produce anything, are a drain on society, money-wise, and via crime etc… Therefore, they see their existence as anti-evolutionary.

  6. Hbd investor

    Hbders are for free markets because there is evidence for free markets. On the other hand there is almost no evidence to support socialism.

    Even in social experiments it shows the hard workers resenting the lazy, and becoming lazy themselves. Why work hard so those mooch ers can sponge off my tax dollars.

    Many countries floundered in various socialist schemes and their economies massively improved when they became less socialist.

    There is a good reason why silicon Valley started up in the usa and not in europe or south American country. Out of the top 10 newly founded technology companies 7 are in the USA and 3 in europe. There is also a good reason why all the brightest Europeans flee to the usa. There is a good reason why elon musk a south African decided to seek his fortune in america rather than europe

    Scandinavia is successful because of scandinavians not because of socialism, scandinavians do far better is the usa than in Scandinavia.

    Taking wealth from the hardworking and clever to give to the lazy and inept is a recipe for disaster. Also the more capitalist a country is the more economic mobility exists. Scandinavian countries have the worst economic mobility amongst developed nations.

    http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalrevolution/2015/06/scandinavian-unexceptionalism.html

    The descendants of Scandinavian migrants in the US combine the high living standards of the US with the high levels of equality of Scandinavian countries. Median incomes of Scandinavian descendants are 20 per cent higher than average US incomes. It is true that poverty rates in Scandinavian countries are lower than in the US. However, the poverty rate among descendants of Nordic immigrants in the US today is half the average poverty rate of Americans – this has been a consistent finding for decades. In fact, Scandinavian Americans have lower poverty rates than Scandinavian citizens who have not emigrated. This suggests that pre-existing cultural norms are responsible for the low levels of poverty among Scandinavians rather than Nordic welfare states.

    • Look obviously you did not read the Comments Rules. You may not advocate rightwing economics on here in any way, shape or form. I ban on that.

      You’ve been warned.

    • NONSENSE YOU ARE TALKING TO A NORDIC AMERICAN

      Disclaimer: Finns are not entirely Nordic, they Uralic or Asiatic and are more often the derelict alcoholic street people of Minneapolis or St. Paul.

      Anybody who has seen FARGO knows that Upper Midwest’s Nordic landscape social landscape is a bleak one.

      Michigan U.P. (Finns, Swedes) – The most hardscrabble place in the Northern Midwest where unemployment or seasonal employment is high.

      Minneapolis, Duluth (Swedes, Finns, Norwegians) Minneapolis and St. Paul Scandinavian-Americans are middle-class or working class but their suburbs are rough around the edges and the cost of living is high.

      Duluth, which is Finnish-American to the extent that the language is a patois of sorts, is hard-scrabble indeed.

      Nordics in general struggle with alcohol. There was a famous Skid Row in Minneapolis where derelict first-generation Scandinavians drank themselves to death.

      North Dakota Population is so sparse that one cannot expect a thriving economy anyhow. Oil has helped.

    • SHEER NONSENSE The Scandinavian belt of the Upper Midwest spanning Northern Michigan through Minnesota to North Dakota is one of the most hard-scrabble places in the United States.

      Amerindians will sometimes leave their reservations to drink or drug in Minneapolis or Fargo Skid Rows that are primarily Finnish-American and more than a few are raped or beaten up.

      Nordics have wandering around the Great Lakes forever but even the Vikings did not think much of the area.

      I should add that Finns seem to have some Uralic-Asian cultural component towards violence and alcoholism. The real Skid Row crackheads who are Caucasian will usually be Finns.

      Watch FARGO again.

  7. Hbd investor

    Hbders are very rational people, many of them used to be liberals until they saw the mass amount of evidence compiled that intelligence was heritable.

    Once you accept that intelligence is heritable, the conclusion that it differs by race is inferred.

    If you want to convince hbders you need hard evidence that socialism works. You need to bring charts, figures, bring up past studies proving socialism works.

    On a historical level socialism is failed massively, if you look at all the innovative companies (mit tech review does a yearly list) almost all the companies are chinese, or American

    Europe is woefully underrepresented

  8. It’s not out of the question for leftypol types, who are usually Marxists, to accept HBD. Jack London – who wrote what was basically the “Atlas Shrugged” of the revolutionary left – was as staunch in his scientific racism as he was in his scientific socialism.

    But this is the exception, rather than the rule. Marxism starts with the proposition that human nature is determined mostly by the economic relations that dominate the society he lives in. Racism tends to see human nature as more biological and fixed in nature. Plus, racial prejudice was a very real barrier to worker solidarity, making any mixture of the two that much tougher a circle to square.

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