Vietnamese IQ’s in the US and Vietnam

Vietnamese are just as smart as Whites while in SE Asia and they nearly seem to outperform Whites here in the US from what I can tell.

There have been no IQ studies in Viets in US, either born here or otherwise.

A recent excellent study by the Vietnamese government found an IQ of 99.9, 109.9 (!) for the urban people and 89.9 for the rural areas. Check out that urban-rural gap! And that urban IQ makes urban Viets some of the smartest people on Earth.

They are not stupid.

Remember we couldn’t even beat them in the Vietnam War no matter how much ordinance we threw at them. And a lot of their war strategy was based on sheer cunning, trickery, deception, cleverness, etc.

I remember there was a conversation between Henry Kissinger and General Giap (leader of the Vietnamese Army), and Kissinger said, “You know, you guys never won that war. Hell, you never even won one battle!”

Giap smiled one of those thin Oriental smiles and said, “That’s ok. We didn’t have to win. All we had to do was not lose.”

Exactly. That’s one smart fucker.

There’s a lot to be said for Oriental wisdom. White nationalists like to put them down and say they lack creativity and whatnot, but those people are smart as Hell, and if you spend time around them, they are pretty damn wise too. They’ve got life pretty well figured out, and that’s all that matters at the end of the day for most of us anyway.

I have a lot of respect for those people.

Vietnamese IQ in Vietnam 99.9
White US IQ              100
Vietnamese US IQ         ?

Viets are smart as Hell. Even in Little Saigon in Orange Country where most of the people were poorly educated refugees, often peasants or urban poor with little or no English skills, you got the general impression that these people were not stupid at all. I taught Viets in Santa Ana and the kids are quite inteligent. My brother married a smart Viet and the Amerasian kid is smart as Hell. They are heavily present at UC Irvine in Orange County; in fact, they may be overrepresented. The general impression I get is that they may even be outperforming Whites in the US.


Filed under Asia, Asians, Intelligence, Psychology, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, SE Asia, SE Asians, Sociology, USA, Vietnam, Vietnam War, Vietnamese, War, Whites

98 responses to “Vietnamese IQ’s in the US and Vietnam

  1. Pingback: Possible Massive Increase in Real IQ in Thailand | Beyond Highbrow - Robert Lindsay

  2. GulliverFredrich2

    Nah Viets are one of the more inferior stupid Asians, they are south east Asians after all and northern Asians look down on them for that. A lot of the smarter ones are actually chinese/northern Asian transplants; not actual vietbamese.

    And no they didn’t win because they were smart or creative, a lot of their war tactics were copied from elsewhere.
    They won because the U.S gave up, the US actually were winning most of the war but had to pull out due to politics.

    The vietnamese won more due to familiarity with their own terrain, and setting, then they did with because of intellelligence. And a lot of generals have said smart things like that one general from other groups like that so……

    As far as I am concrrned, vietnamese never created any real advanced civilizations during the medieval ages/ancient period comparable to the rest of Asia, in terms of sheer advancement.

    And a lot of the vietnamese I have across in America, have been stupid as hell and wannabe try hard annoying gang banger types. From my impression, their is absolutely no way that they are out performing whites in anyway shape or form. Not even close….

    They arent grand and sophisticated deep intellectual types in the slightest . And there is nothing I have seen so far from them that would suggest in anyway otherwise……

    • trinh an

      GulliverFredrich2 : i think you are a stupid racist ! second generation of the children of the Vietnamese diaspora in occcident get along pretty well at school in all western countries, usa, france, germany … do a little research before saying stupidities!
      the majority of Vietnamese in the United States are chinese vietnamese ? No : they are not even 1/10. And they are not smarter than vietnamese vietnames people .
      See on this subject ,the research of somebody here :

  3. TRASH

    Southeast Asian economies are run by Fuji Chinese from Indonesia to Burma-less so in Thailand-which speaks voluminously.

    • Brian Damage

      Why less so in Thailand? Because they don’t have Chinese names? By the turn of the 20th century, the King legislated compulsory Thai names for everyone. Google the top Thai corporations and all of them are owned by ChaoZhou Chinese.

      BTW it is Fujian not Fuji and Hokkien not Hakka. Hakka people are a different from Hokkien people.

      The health of SEA economies rested on the proportion of Chinese minorities in their countries. Malaysia with 25%+ ethnic Chinese has the best economy. Singapore with 85%+ ethnic Chinese majority has one of the world’s top GDP per capita despite having no natural resources.

      • TRASH

        Gad’s, how Confucius-waving Fuji peasants are going to wave their flag at me.

        Fuji Chinese will keep wages down and do little to improve a country no matter how much of the economy they own so I doubt Malays are better off because syndicates of Chinese half-breeds have a choke-hold on industry.

        Nor can they be assimilated.

      • TRASH

        BRAIN DAMAGE Singapore benefited from an English infrastructure and Me Cane You managed to get investment from the Brits. Vietnam and Cambodia might have fared as successfully from French colonization but wars and Communist Chinese madmen interfered.

        Indian Sikhs and Hindus are a contributing factor to the success of Malaysia and Singapore.

        Philippines demonstrates what happens when a Fuji Chinese syndicate owns an economy: corruption, poverty, stagflation from depressed wages, drug dealing (Though the president has started wasted a great many Chinese in that business).

      • TRASH

        Thais were more fiercely nationalistic so somewhat forced assimilation upon the Chinese.

        I agree that their corruption, bribery and outright theft has had a negative impact while Hong Kong and Singapore as I stated were run by the English for so long and the relationships with Me Kane You so parental and controlling that this held rapacious locust like Chinese instincts in check.

        Taiwan is the horrible end-game result of what happens when they completely overrun a native population.

        • Brian Damage

          IMHO Thailand reached the almost perfect economic equilibrium between the market dominant Chinese, mestizos and the pure natives. The current Red Shirt and Yellow Shirt fight is about determining the economic future of Thailand between the poor and the elites. If the Red Shirt (poor) win, Thailand’s economy will retrograde to a level on non-sustainablity. Look at Cambodia and you will see Thailand if the Red Shirts win. The Thai King and the military know this and prevented the Red Shirts who kept winning elections after elections due to the overwhleming amount of supporters voting them into office, put a stop to this by taking over the government and passed a referendum last month to ensure that the Senate must be appointed rather than elected and has veto power over the representatives.

  4. Actually Pretty Funny

    Well, you are on the wrong end again.
    Do you know who those Viets in America are? They are the enemy of Giap. That’s why they end up in the US in the first place. A good percentage of them is Sino Vietnamese who was especially chased by the Communists. Those Sino Vietnamese had integrated well even before the war, so they are the main targets in your Communist War against the rich.
    The irony is, being so rich, those Sino Viets were dealing rice with the Communists who later kicked them out.
    Unlike the Koreans, who were so poor to the point that they have no problem killing every KoCom out there.
    To win Communism, you must be utterly poor.
    Again, it’s Little Saigon, not Little Hanoi.
    But who would tell you?
    The North Vietnamese have their own little network, it’s funny to see a nation with two communities overseas like that.
    I am the most neutral Vietnamese out there. But according to you, I am the rabid Capitalist.

    • Brian Damage

      I agree. Most Viets that ran to the US were Sino-Viets. I think most Viets other than the obvious brown ones are to one degree or another Sino-Viets depending on when their ancestors arrived and how much mixing they had with the local natives..

      • Vietman

        That’s wrong. Viets already looked very mongoloid (flat-faced) before the Chinese invaded their country ~ 2200 years ago. Anthropologists Mongoloid-looking people already appeared in VN ~3800 years ago. After Viets broke free from China, they took Champa and Cambodia and absorded those peoples (less mongoloid-looking peoples)
        Viets became much more diverse that you can see today. If you keep tracing back then every country in Asia was not mongoloid looking. Japan only started to looked mongoloid ~2500 whereas. Ainu people were roaming in northern Asia very early… Oldest mongoloid skull found in Asia is only about 7000 years old.

      • trinh an

        the majority of Vietnamese in the United States are chinese vietnamese ? No : they are not even 1/10. And they are not smarter than vietnamese vietnames people .maybe the reverse is true
        See on this subject ,the researc of somebody :

        • I was just in Ho Chi Minh city last September. Lots of Chinese. The ones that are not, you can tell. When I say Chinese, it doesn’t mean that they are from China. Vietnam shares its border with Canton and Yunnan. Migration from the North had been happening for hundreds of years. Chinese characters were used until the early 1900s. Just like Laos, many Vietnamese have southern Chinese blood. Vietnam means Southern Yue.

          Trinh An, tell me why Vietnam doesn’t have any architectures, writing system and practices similar to Cambodia, Laos, Thailand and Burma? They are similar to old China’s. I always tell people that Vietnam is the official keeper of old Chinese cultural practices. Other than Hong Kong and Singaporean/Malaysian Chinese, Vietnamese is one of the few that still practices traditional Chinese beliefs.

  5. Actually Pretty Funny

    Can you imagine a country with the Northern half utterly poor and overpopulated, and the Southern half somewhat affluent?
    Who would win a civil war in this case?

    • TRASH

      Northern Vietnamese WERE Chinese of some group who migrated 1,000 years ago from Canton province.

      Vietnam and China have been fighting ever since then.

      Like Castro or Che who came from wealthy landowning families in Latin America from the Spanish merchant class, Pol Pot and the Vietnamese Generals were the children of Chinese successful merchants who became radicalized in Europe where their fathers were able to send them to university.

      • Jason Y

        The French were quite brutal to the lower classes in Vietnam, at least that’s what I saw on this film about the tme. No wonder they would want independence. On one scene on the movie, a bunch of peasants are being tortured for some reason, and it included whole families.

        But this stuff could just be propoganda though, but I’m sure WNs believe it was the white man’s burden to Vietnam during the French and American times.

        • TRASH

          French also tried to teach Americans their own sad lessons from Vietnam, which we did not listen to.

          Nor Russia’s sad lessons from its own occupation of Afghanistan, which went unheeded.

          Americans always learn things the hard way at the expense of its own low-classes from Deer-Knock, Ohio or Crack Town, Pennsylvania who fight its wars and draw its casualties.

        • TRASH

          America is brutal to its own low-classes by failing to listen to the sad lessons some French or Russian U.N. delegate tells them of their own countries involvement in a Vietnam or Afghanistan.

          They then return from the war as you returned from Korea to a darker, dangerous place with a broken infrastructure and wrecking balls knocking down entire towns and unemployment lines.

          Is this what foreigners are supposed to admire?

    • Brian Damage

      Southern Vietnam used to be Cochin-China ruled by the Nyugens or in Mandarin “Ruan”s and in later years, by the French. After the Vietnam war, the many south Vietnamese who took refuge in the US were of ethnic Chinese background. BTW, Vietnam’s culture is still very Chinese and the writing used to be in Chinese characters unlike the other Indo-China states that used Sanskrit scripts. Even Malaysia and Indonesia used to write in Sanskrit type scripts before Arabic and European influences.

  6. TRASH

    Chinese form the merchant class of Vietnam and Cambodia so yes, they were ethnically cleansed (Though a certain Cambodian Communist dictator/madman WAS the son of a Chinese and from a merchant family). I’m of the information that North Vietnamese were originally from Cantonese province in the dawn of time 1,000 years ago anyhow.

    Fuji Chinese are like Buffalo (Women have thick ankles like a buffalo in fact) in the sense that they are plodding, hard-working, parent-worshiping stolid people. They lack the warmth or style of Cantonese, however.

    • Brian Damage

      Go to Taiwan and let me know know if the Fujians are like buffalos. Taiwan is right next to the Fujian province so naturally the island has mostly Fujians and speak Fujian. Interestingly, the island of Luzon in the Philippines is just slightly more than 500km south of Taiwan. Many Luzon Filipinos have Fujian blood. Jose Rizal, the national hero of the Philippines was half Fujian.

      While Mindanao has more of your typical Malayo/indonesian types.

      • Brian Damage

        Just looked at Google Map. Luzon is about 200km from Taiwan.

        • TRASH

          GOOGLE Jose Rizal’s biography. He was not a Chinese-Filipino.

          Chinese can do what they want in the Philippines to Filipinos who are basically lazy Mexicans who have the same love of cock-fighting, drugs, alcohol, violence, theft, drunk-driving, wife-beating, lying as Latin Americans.

          Filipinos cannot turn around and demand US AID because Chinese-Filipinos steal their money. Why should whites give Typhoon Aid to some country run by a syndicate of Chinese-Filipino drug dealers, crooked businessmen etc. etc.

          I agree with Duterte that China proper is stealing money out of the country but I do not see what his solution is.

      • TRASH

        Jose Rizal had Spanish and Japanese blood, prominently. But technically all Filipinos descend from Taiwanese aboriginals so this is not incorrect.

        • Brian Damage

          You are wrong. I am not sure where you got all your info from but most of them are wrong. I think they all come from your hatred of the “Fujis” who are “suppressing” your beloved Pinays and their Pinoys.

      • TRASH

        Taiwan is a horrifying example of what happens when peasants from the Fuji Province arrive in great numbers…They displace and shoot the aboriginals. Taiwan’s aboriginals today live in the hills in remote places or they are dead.

        • Brian Damage

          That was thousands of years ago. Are we going to debate about the First Nations people of North America which is more recent?

  7. Actually Pretty Funny

    Since many of them “Vietnamese” you see are dirt poor(US standard) but not Korean poor like the Communists, they usually aren’t that anti-Communist compared to the Communist hate against them.
    The majority of Japanese once upon a time survived on grass and seaweed alone.

    • TRASH

      It should be added that Koreans have not exactly been the “Asian Model citizens” of Los Angeles with their own capacity for violence against blacks, gangs, drug-dealing and prostitution and general bar-brawling.

      I’m not even sure Koreans are completely Asian. They speak some sort of Finno-Uralic dialect and drink vodka and originated in Siberia somewhere.

      • Jason Y

        In the language families, Korean is thrown in with Japanese, but not the Finno-uralic dialects. Seems like it would be thrown in with Mongolian, since obviously, the ancestors of Japanese and Koreans came from Mongolia.

      • Jason Y

        You gotta visit Korea. It’s awesome. I know I said some negative things, but I love Korea. I’m just cynical about Koreans. It’s a really exciting place, especially Seoul which is as exciting as New York City, but it’s definitely it’s own city.

  8. Actually Pretty Funny

    And since they aren’t anti-Communist, you, Robert, would think that Communism is good, Communism treat them well blah blah blah…..
    For a hint: I am half North Vietnamese, I ate grass too.

    • TRASH

      North Vietnamese trace their ancestry to Southern China to a particular group or region 1,000 years ago (They’ve been fighting the Chinese ever since and the Vietnam War was for nothing since the Chinese and Vietnamese hate one another so much).

      Correct my raw Occidental German ignorance, ACTUALLY PRETTY FUNNY.

      • Brian Damage

        For some reason, people like you think history starts after the Europeans started to flex its muscled across the world. There were many kingdoms in South East Asia. There was no Vietnam before the French consolidated 3 kingdoms into one. Just like there was no India until the British consolidated all the kingdoms in the subcontinent. All of these happened only a couple of hundreds of years ago.

        • TRASH

          Fuji peasants like you think that Southeast Asia depends on the brains and creativity of Chinese shopkeepers.

          Taiwan with its dead aboriginals demonstrates what happens ultimately but in Singapore and Hong Kong the English set up a system of laws and an infrastructure that allowed the places to be developed WITH WHITE MONEY.

          Malaysia and Singapore have enough Sikhs and Arabs to hold Chinese bribery, greed and corruption somewhat in check.

        • TRASH

          BRAIN DAMAGE Fuji peasant water buffalo think that Philippines and Indonesia actually benefit from being unlucky enough to have an economy run by a syndicate of corruption and bribery.

          Philippines did not become a Taiwan where the aboriginals were completely overrun because the Spanish and Americans administrated the place.

          Singapore also benefited from English infrastructure, laws etc. like Hong Kong has and the Indians-love em or hate em-have formed enough of a demographic to hold Chinese Fuji peasants somewhat in check.

    • TRASH

      ACTUALLY PRETTY FUNNY Correct my raw uncooked ignorance but aren’t North Vietnamese descended from some particular Han or Cantonese tribe that was driven from China 1,000 years ago while South Vietnamese do not.

      Is that wrong or right.

      • Lin

        “LIN Mao did wonders for Singapore, Hong Kong, Europe, California and Canada by exporting his best and brightest along with their money from the banks when things got dicey…”

        When I said Mao’s mistakes were corrected fast, I mean fast:

        Most of the engineers of china’s weapon programs are quite young. And recently Chinese R&Ds in terms of research citation/per year are rivaling those of the yanks. Here u’re not talking about something like the yanks skim off the top cream layer of talents (if the word ‘talents’ fit a country of 1.3 billion with only 1 single institute among the top 200) like in the case of India.

        • TRASH

          LIN 70’s and 80’s was the heyday for technocrats (Engineers, physicists) who left China for whichever Westernized country would accept them.

          Business people who invested in real estate in the 90’s brought cold, hard cash in North America which is far more important than one more engineer with questionable loyalties.

          Cold hard cash rules and Mao exported a great deal of that along with his merchant-class exiles.

  9. Actually Pretty Funny

    Btw, North Vietnamese, Chinese, Koreans, Japanese all once had the tradition of beating bread snatchers, robbers, etc…. to a pulp.
    The North Vietnamese and the Chinese still maintains that ol’ tradition. They are “Conservatists” so they say.
    For North Vietnamese, America was the bread snatcher who snatched their food from them. Obviously they beat you to a pulp. You need to see things from that perspective.
    And of course, I see them as bread snatchers too, need to be beaten to a pulp.

    • Brian Damage

      I would say that the Vietnamese are the real conservationists of traditional Chinese culture. To some extend non-China chinese. The Chinese in China lost a huge portion of their traditional culture. Even with industrialization, the Japanese still have their traditional identity intact but not so in China. I guess we can blame Mao and to some extend the 600 years of Manchurian rule.

      • Lin

        I found it nonsensical to talk about “conservation” of this or that ‘culture’. Culture for a progressive civilization always changes though abrupt change forced from above is bad. ‘Traditional Chinese culrure’? Just what the fuck you mean? First of all it’s almost impossible to define confucism in the modern context though some better elements,like meritocracy,and secularism still perisit but increasingly being superceded by modern form often initiated from outside,like Darwinism, dialectics. Culture to me means things like language,religion, custume, diet/culinary… Chinese,japanese,viets have given up parts of the above voluntarily, Do you want Chinese to keep polygamy, footbinding? What you said is just about as stupid as some Chinese say “I believe in traditional Chinese medicine”

      • Lin

        Tell me where does your ” 600 years of Manchurian rule.” come from?
        “blame Mao” ?
        The biggest blame on Mao is that he knew shit about demography and it’ll take well over a century to correct his mistake. Rest of his mistakes in fact can be corrected fast.
        I give him credit of telling educated Chinese to honour physical labour

        • TRASH

          LIN Mao did wonders for Singapore, Hong Kong, Europe, California and Canada by exporting his best and brightest along with their money from the banks when things got dicey.

          If prostitutes were forced into factory jobs or Shanghai night club owners “re-educated” that is unfortunate but enough of the educated elite fled with their money overseas to enrich other countries.

          Retrospectively, this is probably why the West waited for a years to press Reforms on China through Nixon in the 70’s. They were getting the best exiles.

          Fuji Chinese who go to Southeast Asia were not the wealth educated Han Chinese who took their money to Hawaii or Canada. The difference is fairly clear between Vancouver and Indonesia.

  10. Actually Pretty Funny

    Try to talk to a North Vietnamese about that war and sooner or later they will mention about food snatching. It’s funny!

  11. Actually Pretty Funny

    South Korea is the bread of North Korea, same for South Vietnam.

  12. Brian Damage

    Viets are always an anomaly and cannot be categorized either way. In the North many are closely related to the original Cantonese people and in the South you will see more Malay/Indonesians.

    • Brian Damage

      Just to correct the above. In the South, we will see more Malay/Indonesian types but Sino-Viets are still quite dominant in the region.

      • Jason Y

        Always an excuse for more racism… So Robert, was this look at Vietnamese, Filipinos, and Thais looking at pure ones or ones mixed with Chinese and Europeans?

        • Tests of Vietnamese were in North Vietnam. Hardly anyone there is mixed with White. No one knows how Chinese mixed they are. Most Viets are pretty heavily mixed with Chinese to start with.

          Tests of Thais were done throughout Thailand on ordinary Thai people. Most Thai people are not mixed with White. The tests were on regular ordinary Thai people with whatever Chinese mixture would be apparent in a cross section of a group of them.

          Tests on Filipinos were on Filipinos in the US. Most are not mixed with White. Tests were on ordinary Filipinos in the US. I have met many Filipinos in the US and most do not seem to be Chinese Filipinos. They may have some Chinese blood, but most are just regular Filipino people.

          The scores are good scores for regular ordinary people from all of those countries.

        • In reality one reason could be Southern Chinese are originally Thai, Myanmar, Vietnamese. Southern Chinese got sinicized by Northern Chinese.

          Then Southern Chinese migrate to SE Asia.

          In reality these are actually one people, sinicized or not.

  13. Jason Y

    Again more heavy evidence tropical climates do not evolve “little monkeys” (sarcasm) as racists think. in fact, HBD generally is a sham.

      Except when you consider for climatic variation as well as different origins based on migrations Jason. This basically boils down to you overusing an excpetion and ignoring the greater averages such as the North and South Global cline in IQ. The only “sham” is you hiding the fact that you’re scientifically illiterate, unable to make or comprehend an argument to save your life.

      Seriously, “heavy evidence” is ONE country with the IQ of 99 against the fact how most places North have higher average IQs?

      Well, lets get educated. One, Most of the people of Modern Vietnam came from Farmers that expanded into Southeast Asia.

      In other words, the IQ is they way it is because the group wasn;t the “indigenous” group. technically, the “rule” in intact whn thing are controlled for Migration groups because their IQs are still Lower than Northern ethnic groups of the same migration.

      • Jason Y

        Robert was the one saying this stuff. Not me.

        • No, Robert was talking about the actually IQs of the region, not that the evidence itself debunked the effects of climate and IQ.

        • Jason Y

          No, Robert is making a verified case against HBD, as southeast Asia is normally another showcase area for the idea of devolution (evolution towards the worst traits). It’s in the tropics, hence you should see a lower IQ as one sees in Africa.

        • Jason Y

          No, Robert was talking about the actually IQs of the region, not that the evidence itself debunked the effects of climate and IQ.

          Really, what’s the difference ???? (sarcasm)

        • “No, Robert is making a verified case against HBD, as southeast Asia is normally another showcase area for the idea of devolution (evolution towards the worst traits). It’s in the tropics, hence you should see a lower IQ as one sees in Africa.”

          Except that argument isn’t made anywhere in the article as put by you. The closest he did say was that Vietnam wasn’t as dumb as people would make them out.

          Tropics or climate weren’t even mentioned.

        • Jason-
          It’s considered a general rule of thumb, but there are exceptions.

          In the 10,000 year explosion it’s argued that ‘mutations’ for high IQ swept across Eurasia, mainly effecting non-European Caucasoids (really nothing much was going on in Europe at that time).
          When the mutations eventually reached Europe and NE Asia, combined with cold climate environment, their IQs took off.
          SE Asians got some of the mutations, from inbreeding?

          Africa, of course got neither the cold climate or mutation advantage.

        • chiune,

          actually due to being part of the expanding population of early farmers that had the high IQ genes.

          Actually Africans do have it, by mean of Agricultural spreading into Africa with Caspian expanders, except for Pygmies.

        • Climate and IQ is a good general rule, however, there are some rather glaring exceptions in the area of Southeast Asia around Vietnam, Southern China, Taiwan and possibly Thailand.

          Exceptions do not disprove rules. In fact, there is a saying, “The exception proves the rule.”

          This is a saying that Mr. Jason has never managed to understand unfortunately.

        • Robert,

          I can agree with that.

        • Jm8

          Independant plant domestications also occured in Africa; in parts of the West. Sahel/Savannah (e.g. millet, native rice, sorghum, cowpeas, a few ancillary crops, etc) , and the W. forrest region (e,g. native yams, oil palm).
          They also occured in East Asia (mostly in China e.g. .: Asian Rice, Asian millet—before spreading elsewhere in East Asia, and other parts of South Asia) as well as in Papua (an indigenous yam—which later spread to S.E Asia—and the banana).

        • Jm8

          Edit: “Independant plant domestications also occured in Africa that do not (likely do not) derive from the Nearn Eastern/West Asian tradition;”

        • Jm8

          The banana was also likely independantly domesticated later in parts of S.E Asia (after it was in Papua)—different varieties being native to each

        • To Jm8,

          Yes, I am aware of this. It’s just that I’m pointing out a non-sequitor.

      • Well the case of Vietnam, Southern China and possibly Thailand shows that high IQ’s can clearly develop in what is for all intents and purposes a tropical jungle.

        I should point out that the high IQ’s of the Vietnamese and possibly the Thais appear to be a direct result of a massive southward migration of high IQ Southern Chinese into the region 2,300 years ago in the case of Vietnam and 900 years ago in the case of Thailand.

        I am wondering, but I am starting to think that Thais are about as Sinicized as Viets genetically. Is that true? Face it, Thais are a very heavily Sinicized people in many ways, including probably genetically.

    • Unfortunately, tropical climates do not seem to have evolved high IQ’s with some notable exceptions such as Vietnam, Southern China, Taiwan and possibly Thailand. However, everywhere else, yes, tropical people tend to have lower IQ’s than northern people. They also tend to be a lot happier and more fun-loving and easygoing too. Come on, people, brains ain’t everything. There is something to be said for any human being to head for the tropics and “go native” as the Brits used to say. You only go around once in life. Why not head to where it’s hot and the people are happy, fun-loving and easygoing? So they’re not as smart. SO WHAT. What’s it going to matter in the end.

      “In the long run, we are all dead”

      • John Maynard Keynes (the Godhead)
      • The middle Chinese are smartest followed by Southern Chinese. The Northern Chinese are dumbest.

        China is somewhat different.

        Nevertheless Chinese civilization started at the North of China.

        But when Chinese migrate, they kept the culture acquired at the North.

        • TRASH

          CREADERS Probably Chinese civilization or a good proportion of it trickled down from Siberia where the Northern Chinese originated. Its hard to imagine any of this originated in Canton, Fuji province or anywhere down South.

        • I never deny that.

          My ancestors could be Thai or Vietnamese or Chinese..etc

          In reality, Indochinese integrates Southern Chinese well is because they are the same people.

        • If you want me to be a Thai, speak Thai, take Thai wife, that is easy for me. Same if I take up Vietnam identity.

          But if someone want me to become Malay and Muslims, I will fight. Neither can I take up Indians identity.

        • Jm8

          Diddn’t it originate along the Yangtzee and Yellow river’s? That seems to me in the middle, though towards the north. The Shang kingdom, was apparently more in the north (more or less centered in Henan), but (I think) there were other early centers

  14. TRASH

    BRAIN DAMAGE Fuji Chinese settled Taiwan about 400 years ago. Gun powder had been invented by then which is what the Fuji Chinese shot the Taiwanese natives with.

    Today they are totally marginalized and live in abject poverty to about the average age of 50 in the hills.

    Please do not tell me that Fuji Chinese peasants with their mindless insect greed and in-group out-group mentality have propelled Southeast Asia to a First World Standard of living.

    Philippines is where you go to see what happens when they have a country to run.

    • Brian Damage

      Tell it to the First Nations in North America. It is worst times ten.

      • TRASH

        BRAIN DAMAGE First Nations get a good deal more from the U.S. or Canada than Taiwanese aboriginals receive from their government BUT I agree that Fuji Chinese tend to invade in an insidious merchant-class fashion with “Associations” (Family cartels), cheap importation from China and bribery/corruption to keep wages down while stagflation goes up (Murder on the economy for the Southeast Malays but this does not matter to Fuji Chinese) and steal land illegally with a crooked lawyer instead of a gun-times change.

    • In reality it is sinicized malay in Fujian move over to Taiwan, and assimilate formosan Malay.

      It is easy to integrate Formosan.

      Below is a Taiwanese Malay girl singing Chinese song. They dont jihad us neither we impose caste system. I cannot even tell them apart from us when I visit Taiwan.

      • TRASH

        Chinese who go anywhere are overwhelmingly male polygamists so they intermarry with local females within a generation. Taiwanese and Thais demonstrate this. Very few women leave the village except when successful males import them as brides in arranged marriages.

        • Chinese successful male breeds a lot. And successful male are usually the imperial scholars, who then accumulate land through massive corruption. Alternatively even illiterate landlord class will educate their scion as hard as they can.

          Eventually landlord is scholar and scholar is landlord.

          That raises IQ.

          But entire society get so unequal that there will be a massacre every 300 years, culling all elites.

          Good thing is Chinese scholars do not keep their literacy to themselves unlike Brahmins.

          The poor still have chance to become elites.

          Generally the elite beuracrats are also scholars and that prevent even further degeneration of Chinese nation states.

      • TRASH

        Mixed, definitely. I’m not sure that.

        When you Consider how many people from Hungary in Eastern Europe (Where Mongolian Chinese raped local European women) to Indonesia where Chinese intermarried as well as importing wives from home village to have not ONE but TWO complete families…I should say Chinese men breed a great deal through any means necessary. Even Donald Trump’s wife looks as if she has some Mongolian Chinese ancestor somewhere in the gene pool.

  15. Malla

    I always looked at South East Asia as a Mongoloid version of India. I have reasons to believe that both Indian subcontinent and South East Asia share some common ancestry and before heavy Caucasian/Mongoloid movements were the same people. Except that the Indian subcontinent faced waves of Caucasians infusion which changed the population while South East Asia saw loads of Mongoloid infusions from the north. For Example, Indians call their dark skinned tribals ‘adivasi’ which means aboriginals while Malays call their semi negrito looking tribals ‘Orang Asli’ which means aboriginal too.
    “The Burmese are a compound population, of newcomers from the north, rather deep into China, and the long resident Austro-Asiatic population. Mons. It was probably a pretty singular pulse event to get picked up so well. These later went to eastern India, and mixed with the proto-Bengalis, who probably already had some Austro-Asiatic Munda ancestry. Additionally, the connection between the Burmese and Naxi minority in China is not surprising; they speak related languages. ”
    The Bengalis later mixed with the incoming Aryans and thus are heavily Caucasoid today (Bengali is an Indo European language like English). So much so that the Marxist ex Chief minister of West Bengal and the longest ruling chief minister of any Indian state looked like this
    while the present chief minister has definite Mongoloid ancestry

    Remember Bengal is extremely close to South East Asia.

  16. TRASH

    Gupta’s dynasty was Bengali.

  17. TRASH

    Gupta was a Bengali and the Gupta family is still quite prominent in the Bengali community in the States/Canada.

    They WILL TELL GORAS they are all descended from the Gupta king, though of course this is a bit of a boast.

  18. Does Australoidic Admixture play a role?

    I mean, there are some Caucasian/ Black looking SE Asians out there;

    • From what I read from Razib khan, further south in the region would be the most likely case but I don’t remember the ethnic groups. see my links above in the thread with Jason.

      However, this brings up an interesting point with Polynesian, as in the past the have been observed to phenotypically have “Oceanic negro” looks as well as “Caucasian” looks.

      Carleton coon actually said abos of Australia have a facial frame like Caucasian but “heavier”, as well as comparing them phenotypically as Cro-magnons while more negrito looking ones like ethnic Tasmanians (practically extinct I believe) were technically the “first” inhabitants.

    • such observation with australoids convinces me that they are probably the most phenotypically diverse at least on surface traits.

    • Jason Y

      Good point. Maybe Barack is really our first Filipino president.

  19. P.

    I lived in Vietnam for a few years. The people didn’t impress me as being very smart. In fact, I saw a lot of signs of low IQ. These IQ tests are probably administered in schools so the people taking them are not very representative of the general population. A lot of people there don’t attend school.

  20. Actually Pretty Funny

    A problem you don’t know much about, is that cheating is a huge problem with countries under Chinese influence. I am not very fond of your assessment for that reason. In other words, people dedicate a large part of their IQ to cheating, how to bypass the test the shortest way. In many instances, even people with responsibilities actually turn a blind eye to it, with order from higher above. Now that’s what hold the countries back.
    Tests for Vietnamese in America, IMHO, are honest though. You mostly can’t cheat things that aren’t there in the books.

    • trinh cong

      Il y a quelqu’un qui disait que les vietnamiens aux usa sont des chinois -vietnamiens ,sachez que la proportion de chinois -vietnamiens et vietnamiens-vietnamiens sont de 1/10 max et comme l’immigration continu depuis les années 80 sans les chinois-vietnamiens … Or on constate que les tests de QI des vietnamiens-américains s’améliore avec le temps ! il faut plutôt conclure que les vietnamiens-vietnamiens sont plus intelligents ! je ne vais pas jusque là je dirais que le QI dépends de beaucoup de choses ,comme la vie aux usa est meilleure le QI s’améliore avec ! j’ai des amis chinois-vietnamiens ils ne sont pas ignorants et bornés que ce monsieur !

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