Why Indians Hate the Aryan Invasion Theory So Much

Found on the Net:

In Indian context, the theory has a few problems:

  • The Aryan invasion theory was postulated by non-Indian thinkers at a time when India was a colony of Britain. That has led to the criticism that Europeans can never accept that Indian culture could not be home-grown, it must have been imported from elsewhere. This line of thinking is not completely baseless, just look at the decades it took for Westerners to accept that all the statues in Easter Island were built by the natives and not a creation of some alien species.
  • There is an Indocentric fervor in India – Indian culture is superior, Indian food is superior, Indian linguistic traditions are superior and Indian intellect is superior; not just against one or two countries but against everyone. So, the idea that India could have benefited from immigrants is immediately rejected. This line of thinking is quite evident when you see how many people want to cleanse India of Muslims.
  • The title of the theory has not helped – it implies that all the extant culture was destroyed and replaced with the culture of the invaders. If it had been called “Aryan Immigration Theory”, there would have been less resistance.
  • A few people have told me that the “Aryan Invasion Theory” was developed to cement the idea that Europeans and Indians were distinct populations – even though the theory actually calls for Europeans and Indians to have common ancestors!

All in all, this theory drives a lot of people (especially of Indian origin) batty.

This sums up very well the problems Indians have with the AIT and why it provokes such passionate emotional responses in them.

141 Comments

Filed under Asia, Asian, Colonialism, Culture, History, India, Political Science, Regional, South Asia

141 responses to “Why Indians Hate the Aryan Invasion Theory So Much

  1. Lin

    The upper caste Hindus/Brahmins don’t ‘hate’ the ‘Aryan Invasion Theory,’ and actually they’re very conscious of their caste/racial ‘superiority’. The caste system is just very PERSISTENT racism wrapped around a religion. Under more modern conditions, it’s no longer justified, so at least the Hindu elite must at the PR level mitigate caste volatility. So here comes the ‘Out of India’ thingie, not just to negate the ‘Aryan Invasion Theory’ but also to fool the darker-skinned Hindus into a sense of ‘pride’: Look, we are just Nordics with tropical suntanned skin. Actually Bob, you can compare it to the White ‘liberal/Cultural Left’ attempt to call races ‘cultural constructs,’ though the latter has more substance and sincerity, while the ‘Out of India’ is bullshitted by the fact that ancient Hindus didn’t bother to write down history, and they can brag as much as they could.

    People moved/migrated/invaded since time immemorial. The big difference is these days, to most non-Hindus, ancient history is ancient history you wouldn’t bother much about, while caste racism is much alive in Bharat to these days.

    Examples:

    — How often do Limeys bitch about the Norman invasion these days?

    — As a Chinese residing in HK, my ancestors were not the original aborigines who inhabited Southern China 2,000 years ago, but it has little meaning except to students of history. Even North Vietnamese have 70% Chinese ancestry.

    The above 2 examples are recorded in history.

    –I read the Japanese royal family actually were bandits from Korea.

    • Baji Rao 1

      @Lin,

      As a so-called “darker skinned ” Hindu myself, your post is complete bullshit. The Out of India Theory has far more going for it than the AIT. The Ancient Hindus did write their history in the form of ancient documents called the Rig Veda, Puranas and Itihasas. But what would you know about it? The fact is the Ancient Hindus did mention in their documents Indo-European speakers of two Indian tribes migrating away from India in olden times towards the West. These documents are called Puranas. They provide the historical context as to why there are Indo-European speakers outside India, to the West. To put it bluntly, Out of India Theory is correct and AIT is crap.

      • Another SHITndian thoroughly brainwashed by the RSS-hindutva VERMINSCUM.

        What aren’t you going to tell us how every CEO of EVERY corporation and EVERY existing business on the planet is a SHITTING-IN-THE-STREET SHITndian?

        Aren’t you going to tell us that 99.999999999999999% of employees in NASA are SHITTING-IN-THE-STREETS SHITndians?

        Aren’t you going to tell us that every culture across the entire globe is derived from SHITHOLE SHITndia?

        Aren’t you going to tell us that SHITTING-IN-THE-STREETS SWINGING-FROM-THE-TREE SUBHUMAN APE MONKEY SHITndians invented the zero and invented microsurgery and invented the computer and invented human speech and invented human thinking and invented reality and invented the universe?

        FUCKING SHITTING-IN-THE-STREETS SWINGING-FROM-THE-TREES SUBHUMAN APE MONKEY SHITHOLE SHITndians.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Archie Laech,

          It looks like you are having a panic attack, just by hearing the term
          Out of India/OIT. LOL.

          I am not making anything up. I read and have done the research
          on this Indo-European homeland theory. India is the best candidate
          for being the home of Indo-European language family based on
          purely scientific grounds, not emotional or nationalistic grounds.

          That might be difficult for you to swallow but it is true.
          It can easily be supported by archaeology, linguistics, literary
          evidence ect. No need for me to get into an emotional overdrive
          to prove it. But I can prove it easily on scientific grounds if you have
          the stomach to take it.

      • Lin

        Look,ancient hindu fairy tales also mentioned incest and homosexuality among their gods and ancient flying machines(saucers) and their gods even left a helmut on the surface of Mars during one of their wars. But you want to tell me:
        “The fact is the Ancient Hindus did mention in their documents Indo-
        European speakers of two Indian tribes migrating away from India”
        Basically you want to tell me the hindus fathered the white Europeans,justifiably the most accomplished grouping in the past 3 or 4 centuries. Going west? Hell, Africa is also to the west of india? Why don’t you tell me that’s a dead sure proof hindus are negroids?
        The bottom line of my thesis is ancient happenings are mostly ancient happenings. Lingual roots? Big deal !! Poor Sudanese arabs also share some lingual root with highly accomplished Ashkenazi jews. And as a Chinese, I have the confidence to look forwards to the bold new golden age and I don’t need to BS interpret ancient writing to soothe inferiority complex. By the way, I always believe Chinese ancestors were black skin people later bleached by the last ice age(~12000 years ago) and black Africans are my brothers.
        Last but not least,the ‘Out of India’ thingie is not entirely correct because people did move around. There seem to be enough evidence that the australoid race came from southern india. Yes,be proud, you are blood brother to the asutraloid natives and since I’m trying to be more PC, you can ignore the racist venom that the australoid have the lowest IQ. Here’s a picture of your brother:

        http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-21016700

        • Lin

          Typo – “Last but not least, the ‘Out of India’ thingie is not entirely correct” should be replaced by “Last but not least, the ‘Out of India’ thingie is not entirely INCORRECT.”

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Lin,

          Ancient Fairytales are not the same thing as ancient historical facts which have been documented. There is nothing fairy tale like about some Indian tribes from the past who are mentioned as having left Northwestern India due to certain sociopolitical events which took place in Ancient India. Yes, Indians at that time had migrated out of India just as they do even today. Is that so difficult for you to comprehend? You are from Hong Kong, aren’t there Indians in Hong Kong?

          I never said that Hindus/Indians fathered White Europeans. You are falling into the same trap where you confused race with language. Race and language are not necessarily correlated. Indians are their own race, originating in India and Europeans are indigenous to Europe. But language does not travel in the air, like pollen seeds.

          Language spreads largely due to human movements and contacts. How did the languages of India and languages of Europe, including Iran, become interrelated to the point that they make up one large linguistic family called Indo-European? Hint, it didn’t happen by way of telepathy. The Indian tribe known as Druhyus in Indian literature and in Europe as the Druids were the Indians who introduced Indo-European dialects of the Western branch to the White Europeans back in the day. It isn’t because of some Aryans coming to India but rather Indian Indo-European speakers moving towards Europe.

          Language spread doesn’t involve mass people based movements. There is something called elite dominance model.

      • TRASH

        RAO While this is possible Veddoid black beastie men like you did not swing out of India and become Germans or French 3,000 years ago. You might have gone to Maldives or Australia but that’s the other geographic direction.

        Give Dravidians their due-they invented some aspects of math and were ancient seafarers. But are not the ancestors of Persians or Europeans.

        Either way you are probably a black Nair or Tamil.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          I never said that Veddoid people left India for Europe.
          By the way, Veddoids are seen more in Sri Lanka, than in India.
          Majority of Indians are not Dravidian speakers and don't look
          "Veddoid".  Indo-European is the language of 80 % of Indians.
           It was a North Indian Tribe that migrated towards Europe, 
           not the Australoid speakers of India.  Australoid speakers make up
           only 8 % of Indian speakers.     
          
          Again, you can't grasp the difference between race and language.
          I never claimed that Indians became Germans and French.  
          The Germans and the French are descendants of White European
          locals who acquired Indo-European Dialects from an incoming 
          IE speaking group.    Keep in mind that Indo-European does not
          mean White European.     
          
          The Dravidian speaking Indians have definitely done great things.
          I never denied that.   Of course, the Dravidian speaking Indians are
          not the ancestors of Persians and Europeans.  I never claimed that.
          But the North Indian Indo-European speakers of India are indeed the 
          linguistic ancestors of Persians and Europeans, but not racially.  
          This is proven by the fact that Persian language and European
          languages are related to Sanskrit and other North Indian languages.
          
        • So THINGS with a lineage of YOU SWINGING-FROM-THE-TREES APE MONKEY SUBHUMANS were fighting Agamemnon 3500 years ago eh?

          Funny that Homer never mentions anything about YOU 650 million SUBHUMAN SHITTING-IN-THE-STREETS SHITndians SHITTING ALL OVER THE STREETS OF TROY.

          “incredible india”: https://media.8ch.net/ib/src/1437758319879.webm

          http://calloftravel.com/india-is-spectacularly-dirty/

          http://www.eatliver.com/the-real-india/

          http://www.tobydeveson.com/india-the-shitting-fields/

          http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=999_1434487174

    • TRASH

      LIN

      Chinese are a pretty ethnically mixed bunch.

      The purest Chinese groups are actually the 4th or 5th generation overseas merchant class-if you want pure Fujian village Chinese go to the Philippines and you will find whole villages and towns in the middle of nowhere full of them who barely speak Filipino languages. Thai Chinese are from the Yunnan Province or the Guangdong and Singaporeans are some other group.

      Cantonese Chinese in Canada are about as concentrated as you can get in places like Vancouver and not one Hokkien among them.

      Manchurian people appear to have been sorta/kinda Eurasians from Siberia who assimilated at some point in the deep past. Manchurian folks LOOK vaguely Soviet and have some Russian aspects to their culture like passing out in the street on straight Vodka.

      Western Chinese are essentially Turks. They have nothing to do with Han Chinese legal systems that govern China.

      For that matter so many Chinese nomadic groups migrated West like the Huns that everybody in Bulgaria or Hungary or even Estonia looks like they are part Asian. Leonard Nimoy who played Spock or Charles Bronson for example.

      Some proto-Caucasoid race from Russia might have actually been in Japan prior to Koreans migrating into the islands.

      Taiwanese Chinese are mixed with the local aboriginals who apparently spawned every Southeast Asian race from Philippines to Polynesia to South American Indians.

      • Lin

        China has about 50 ethnic groups,amazingly ‘Russians’ constitute one of them. The earliest inhabitants of Xinjiang are not Turkic, actually a Persian speaking people and they are still there. Mulan the Chinese heroine was NOT a Han apparently. She or her father called the Chinese Emperor the Great Khan, a central Asian title. However Chinese are quite homogenous considered the size. Regarding the Manchurians,they’re a well assimulated minority. If I remember right, many years ago, the Chinese gov found that only 8 of them can still speak the Manchu language and needed to teach the mongol language to more people. The Chinese mongols are also well assimulated on average but keep their language well, actually better than the Outer Mongols who bastardised their language with the Cyrillic script. All high schools in China use the Han Chinese ‘Mandarin’ language as the teaching medium.The Chinese geologist who found china’s biggest oil field is a well respected Chinese mongol. There’s absolutely no such thing as ‘purest chinese’. Han Chinese in China identify themselves with a shared written language, culture, and a sense of common history and destiny.
        –Though the political centre traditionally is in North China, all the recent important Chinese leaders like Sun, Chiang,Mao, Deng are from the south.
        Not known to non-Chinese,Cantonese, the southern Chinese dialect, actually resembly ancient Chinese pronunciation closer than mandarin which was influenced by central Asian language
        –History writing is important to ancient Chinese. Actually I’m quite amazed by the small amount of ‘pre-history’ chinese mythology. The main reason I think is that Confucism or its proto-form needed administration(preferably imperial) to function, so past record of governance was important, whereas Hinduism is atomized or decentralized and can function as long as caste hierarchy is observed.
        Honestly I hesitated to write the above. I don’t really care how non-Chinese comment. As I said always, China is a poor 3rd world country.

        • Lin

          typo:”many years ago, the Chinese gov found that only 8 of them can still speak the Manchu language and needed to teach the mongol language to more people” should be
          “many years ago, the Chinese gov found that only 8 of them could still speak the Manchu language and needed to teach the Manchu language to more people”

  2. Erik Sieven

    “This line of thinking is quite evident when you see how many people want to cleanse India of Muslims.”
    Pakistan was successfully cleansed of Non-Muslims, other important countries like Saudi Arabia, too. Right now the cleansing is going in countries like Syria and to some extent on countries like Indonesia. When will it stop that the muslims share of the population rises steadily in countries with muslim majority (from e.g. 80 to 99.9 percent) and with muslims minority (from 5 percent to up to 30 percent in younger countries in west european countries).

  3. The ‘Aryan Invasion Theory’ is defunct even from a Western point of view. Acculturation models have currency now

    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

    • Really? u ape faced semi-austric south-indian mutt. Look at my face,i’m your pure forefather. It was aryan annexation with your mud races(while forming united-varat)

      • Baji Rao 1

        @http://falsehistoryindia.com/,

        Add some knowledge and subtract some bigotry.
        Sujay Rao Mandavilli is right. The Aryan Invasion Theory is
        practically dead. Read the book by Edwin F Bryant from Rutgers
        university, “Indo-Aryan Controversy, Evidences and Inferences in
        Indian History”. The AIT according to the book has severe flaws
        and Bryant concludes that questioning the AIT is valid.

        What are you actually? A White Supremacist? Talking of purity
        on your part is laughable as Whites are a mixed race. You guys
        are a mix between African Hunter-gatherers and Neolithic era Middle
        eastern farmers who expanded into Europe and cross-bred with the
        African hunters already settled in Europe.

        • Tony Swagger

          Dude, science can be understood only by people who are genuine humans not streetshitters at this era, who barely qualify as human. The west didn’t come from your gigantic latrine. Even Africa has some decent areas with negros around. Iam yet to hear or see one good place in your glorious Bharat that doesn’t have poop or dirt. Clean the shitstain from your shoes if you wear one firat, then do your part to Fix your shithole if you can. Don’t try to fuck around with proven scientific theories that are beyond your semi australoidic drug addled brains’ comprehension.

        • typical monkey-faced south-indian half-austric mutts, can’t stand the truth that they are ugly piece of subhuman bastards.keep chimping!
          http://realhistoryindia.com/rape-crisis-fake-cases-analysis/

        • Sorry the AIT is not dead at all. There is no controversy at all about in academia and I know some top academics and have discussed this with them. These are guys with Wikipedia entries. They told me that AIT is not even up for grabs anymore. The evidence is mostly linguistic but also archeological and partly genetic. The only controversy is over whether it was an invasion or settlement.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Mr Robert Lindsay,

          The actual homeland of Indo-Europeans is still being debated in the academic circles. This debate has been going around for nearly 200 years now, with no real end in sight. There are many candidates for Indo-European homeland, including Indian Homeland Theory/IHT. The South Russian Theory is a dubious one but accepted by sizable number of thinkers not because the facts support it but because it looks convenient. It is neither too Western (ie. Europe) or to eastern (India and Central Asia) or too Southern(ie.Iran) or too Northern (Arctic).

          It looks less like a hot potato for the politically correct group in academia, as well as a desperation to get some consensus on this issue among academics. But even then, controversy still continues. You Yourself subscribe to the Anatolian Theory of Colin Renfrew. How come?

          The AIT is indeed coming apart at the seams. The Linguistic evidence that you refer to doesn’t disprove the OIT at all. It only disproves the notion that Vedic Sanskrit is identical to the Proto-Indo-European Language/PIE or that Vedic Sanskrit is the ancestor of all the branches of Indo-European.

          Heinrich H. Hock himself admits that it is relatively easy to maintain the PIE in India theory because there is no linguistic evidence going against that version of OIT. There is also no archaeological evidence showing a mass based intrusion of Aryans the way there is in Europe. Check out the Yamnaya Horizon. There is nothing comparable with respect to India. Genetics also shows that Indians descend from ANI/ASI, two prehistoric ancestors who lived 40,000 to 60,000 years ago, which is too early to attribute to any Indo-European arrival.

          In a nutshell, OIT is in fact more credible in explaining IE origins.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Tony Swagger,

          I never said the West came from India. I simply said that Indo-Europeans and the Indo-European language family originated in India. Some branches of IE emigrated from India and went as far West as Europe, introducing their dialects to White Europeans. Indo-European does not mean White European.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @FalsehistoryIndia,

          Humans as a whole came from Chimps anyway. So all of us humans have Chimps for ancestors, including you, that is unless you’re not human but a deformed alien from Mars. Only subhumans wouldn’t have chimps for ancestors, so I guess considering your hatred for chimps, you are the only subhuman here.
          LOL.

        • There is a journal called something like the Indo-European Review. It’s run by Colin Renfrew. They ran an issue recently on the OIT (Out of India Theory) of Indo-European and India as the homeland of the Indo-Europeans.

          They had to suspend peer review because there was no way that the any of the papers could have made it through peer review as papers must be scientifically valid to make it through peer review in a journal. I know because I sit on a peer review board of a journal. So the only way that they could get this theory printed was to suspend scientific peer review! No credible linguist believes in OIT. All of the people who published papers were well known cranks and most are not even academics. They are just independent scholars.

          Where is the Dravidian in the rest of Indo-European? THERE IS NONE. There would have to be Dravidian substratum in all of IE for OIT to be true.

        • Lin

          I’m not surprised by your lexical backtracking/sidetracking,but simply its too tiring to repeat:
          –“Ancient Fairytales are not the same thing as ancient historical facts which have been documented”
          http://www.mihirbose.com/index.php/indias-missing-historians/
          Look,the average person might not be aware of this but Robert Lindsay,myself and others here are very aware of the ancient hindus’ preference to write mythology over history. There’s might be a few true chronologers on local(like Kashmir,say) events but the first serious historian on boarder Indian history if I remember right was a foreign muslim. Definitely no serious hindu historian back in the time of ‘Aryan invasion/migration’ or ‘Out of India’. None not so ever. Being said, I take a tolerant view on ancient records. You can’t blame the ancients too much; hard to communicate 1000s of years ago; but however if an ancient king was recorded as a god, you got problems; history became fairy tales(here I’m not talking about deification of some roman emperors which was more like an honorific title)
          –“I never said that Hindus/Indians fathered White Europeans”
          Whenever the hindus invoke ‘Out of India’, they pretend they do so with racial pride or are you telling me the ancients across continents sharing some common lingual roots was worthy of such endeavour by the hindutwadis to cook up ‘out of India”? I must remind you I read on many occasions the hindu civilization was claimed to be the ‘mother/father’ civilisation of that of the Europeans by hinduwadis of which you’re apparently a member. There’s even a funny claim the Islamic kaaba stone was a hindu monument.
          —What does “XYZ invasion/migration” mean? To me it was just ancient people moving/warring from places to places. What’s the big deal? After all, ancient events are the focus here, not some recent memory branding nor economic news.
          —What does “Out of XYZ Theory” means? The first example that came to my mind is “Out of Africa” which means the paleo Africans fathered all the present human races.
          You guys are so fond of the Indo-Euro lingual grouping and added to it ‘Out of India Theory’ and you told me the hinduwadis don’t try to imply the euro or Caucasus civilization/people came from Bharat?
          Look,there’re more concrete evidence the gypsies(an ex-dalit race with ‘criminal’ tendency according to some) and the australoid(a race labeled as low IQ) came from Bharat. Tell me how often you and your fellow hindutwadis include them into your’Out of India’ thingie and take pride accordingly? 9 out of 10 time the hinduwadis mentioned ‘Out of India’ it has something to do with the ‘aryan’ or ‘Caucasian’ racial pride thing.
          Enough said,it’s probably the 10th time I wrote the above material.
          As I often said, to examine human insecurity,look no further than the Rakshaks of Bharat

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Robert Lindsay,

          Peer review is not exactly free from bias and vested agendas. The fact that to even discuss the OIT required suspending peer review only demonstrates the extent of the bias and unwillingness to think on different lines. The excuse that it is not scientific is just a veneer to hide the bias and dislike to consider something different from mainstream belief and dogma. The reason is many of the members of these committees tend to be Western and they have a personal dislike of such a theory. Not really because the science rules it out. That’s just an excuse to make their objection look credible and to stall any real debate which may challenge their pet theories. Intellectual inertia is actually quite common in academia, and tends to be more the rule than the exception. Academics are also human and they definitely have human flaws.

          As far as Peer Review goes, take the example of the book “The Bell Curve” by Charles Murray. That book wasn’t peer reviewed before being published and sold in the market. In fact one of the main objections of the academics and scientists to the book was that it was published without being peer reviewed. Had it been peer reviewed, it probably likely that the book might not have been published. But the book, whether peer reviewed or not, has influenced public opinion and led to lively debates on IQ. So peer review isn’t everything, particularly if you are against an entrenched establishment that wants to promote a certain way of thinking over a certain topic.

          About the lack of Dravidian influence on Western Indo-European languages, I answered this question to another poster yesterday. The reason for that is because the Western IE branch left Northwest India well before there could be any later interactions with Dravidian speakers. You see, there were no Dravidian speakers in Northwest India or even in Northern India proper, which was dominated by other IE branches, such as the Indo-Aryan branch. The Indo-Aryans interacted with the Dravidian speakers from the South much later to the emigration of the Western IE branches from Northwest India and beyond. So obviously Indo-Aryan may show some Dravidian influences but not the earlier emigrated Western IE branches which were no longer on the scene when interactions between the Indo-Aryans and Dravidians started taking place.

          So lack of Dravidian influence does not negate Out of India Theory. There is an explanation for that.

        • Baji, I told you to stop using pre and code tags in your posts. I am not going to warn you any more times. If you keep doing this, I am going to ban you.

          And no, peer review is not biased. It is science.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Lin,

          India has its own historical tradition and its quite well documented.
          Mihir Bose is simply rehashing colonial era myths of lack of historical
          sense. He is not a professional historian. Dr. Shivaji Singh, who by the
          way is a professional historian specializing in the subject of History,
          disagrees with that uninformed view. He describes the various genres
          of Indian historical tradition right from the Vedic era down to the end of
          at least the medieval era. You can read the introduction here:

          http://bharatabharati.wordpress.com/2014/12/18/contending-paradigm-of-indian-history-did-india-lack-historical-agency-shivaji-singh/

          Just because a King was recognized or considered a God doesn’t
          mean that the King never existed. In India, there is a guy called Sai
          Baba, who passed away 5 years ago. He is considered a God by many
          people,literally an incarnation of God. So just because he is considered
          as God, does it mean that he never existed in history?

          The OIT is based on explaining the existence of a language family
          that is accepted by linguists the world over. Its a purely academic debate
          on a topic of historical value. Looking at your responses, you don’t
          really seem to quite get what the issues are. You seem to think that
          it has no relevance, which is wrong.

          No one denies the Gypsies came from India. Indians dont.
          In fact the Gypsies migrating from India all the way to Europe, just
          a thousand years ago, provides a template for earlier Indo-European
          migrations coming from India towards West. Why not? If the Gypsies
          could do it, why not the other Indian tribes at a more earlier era?
          And this historical movement is mentioned in ancient documents.

          The reason many Indians don’t speak about Australoid leaving India
          for Australia is because this is new information for many. But you know
          what, that is great news also. It only reinforces the fact that migrations
          from India happened. So extend the logic here. Why wouldn’t Indo-Europeans have originated in India, like the Australoids, and migrated to
          Europe in the distant past?

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Robert Lindsay,

          Are you familiar with the arguments of OIT proponent Shrikant Talageri?
          He has written three books analysing the Aryan Invasion Theory in
          rigorous detail.  Needless to say, the linguistic arguments used by the 
          AIT side have been effectively rebutted by him, along with other 
          arguments.  
          

          It would be interesting if you could analyse his arguments and provide a
          response. I say this because he makes a pretty solid case for OIT, if
          you read his books. Maybe you would like to correspond with him?.

  4. There were and still are plenty of cultural differences. Furthermore, all existing models are outdated. The genetic output from Central Asia was at best small. Furthermore, the term ‘Aryan’ was cultural in the Rig Veda and did not represent a group of people moving from place to place. The term ‘Aryan’ was probably imported to India from Iran sometime later and not from Central Asia.

    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

    • Lin

      “…the term ‘Aryan’ was cultural in the Rig Veda…”

      It’s immaterial. The present day Northern or upper caste Hindus definitely invoke the word ‘Aryan’ with racial pride. Exactly the same racial pride with Iranians.

      “…‘Aryan’ was probably imported to India from Iran…”

      • Dave Mowers

        The written history say “Aryas,” were a race of Scythes whom first occupied Persia and continued into India. The written histories are very clear on this matter and include multiple cultures, races and peoples.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Dave Mowers,

          The word “Arya” is first attested in literature only in the Hindu Rig-Veda and somewhat later in the Iranian Zend Avesta. Regardless of whether you subscribe to OIT/Out of India Theory or AIT/Aryan Invasion Theory, this is the fact. Rig-Veda has been dated to between 3400 BC to 1400 BC, according to new scholarship. This dating of Rig Veda is based on the Mitanni documents of West Asia. The Scythians are only attested from about 600 BC, onwards.

          The Scythians are supposed to have originated in Siberia, from where they gradually migrated into Central Asia by 600 BC to 500 BC. So it is not likely that they were originally Indo-European speakers, but as they expanded into Central Asia and came in contact with Indo-Aryan and Iranic speakers, they adopted an Indo- European language. “Arya” is a Sanskrit word, not a Scythian word. Sanskrit belongs to the Indo-Aryan/Indian branch of Indo-European language family.

          So you are wrong about that.

      • Baji Rao 1

        @Lin,

        There is nothing wrong in having a little racial pride. Every race has it at some level. Whites have it, Japanese have it, Africans of various tribes have it, etc etc. As a Chinese person, you have no business questioning other peoples’ racial pride as you Chinese/East Asians are some of the most ethnocentric species on the face of the planet.

        • Lin

          My hindi Bhai Baji Rao, you got me completely wrong; I don’t question your racial pride, I’m just entertained by it. Is ‘Out of India’ an exercise in ‘racial pride’? If the answer is ‘YES’, you should’ve informed us beforehand instead of trying to pass it as an academic issue. Honestly I don’t give a shit if some people say Chinese or East Asians are inferior or of low IQ. Look, life is short, and I don’t believe in reincarnation (except the future possibility of cybernetic virtual afterlife after dumping the memory of dying people into a computer), please have fun and pride:

          http://scroll.in/article/698610/ancient-planes-and-vedic-cloud-seeding-day-2-at-the-indian-science-congress

          More, from another very serious Hindu wisdom site: …’Pinjula Mirror’ offered a sort of ‘visual shield’ preventing the pilots from being blinded by ‘evil rays’ and the weapon ‘Marika’ used to shoot enemy aircraft ‘does not seem too different from what we today called laser technology,’…

          http://www.hinduwisdom.info/Vimanas4.htm

        • TRASH

          Dr. Singh the Sikh expects us to believe ancient Punjabi people migrated in vast numbers up through the Indus Valley through Persia into Europe proper?

          Come no Baji the Nair, this is a little far-fetched.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

           No one is arguing for a MASS migration.  Only migrations which were
           relatively small in size in the pre-historic period.  
          
           Its odd that you can't grasp that fact.
          
        • TRASH

          RAO Racial pride but if you are a South Indian which even an uninformed Gora who spent his time on Goan beaches kind of picks up on you-why espouse Aryanism?

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Lin,

          It was you who brought up the issue of racial pride when this whole
          AIT/OIT debate started.  Not me.  The AIT/OIT debate is basically an
          academic debate which boils down to where the Indo-Europeans 
          originated and by extension, whether there was an Aryan movement
          towards India or away from it.  That's all.  This is a purely academic 
          issue with historical implications.  Racial pride has no priority in a case 
          like this.  Its about the facts and nothing but the facts.  
          
          And the facts do show that India was the original homeland of the
          Indo-Europeans and the Indo-European language family.
          
        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          Why espouse Aryanism?  Because its Indian culture, whether North or
          South.  Aryan means Indian/Indian culture as per the Rig Veda and 
          other Indian texts.  That's the debt we owe to our ancestors.
          
        • Lin

          Mihir Bose Is not a real historian? I’m not sure how strong his credentials as a historian are but you don’t need to be a professional historian to know certain facts. “India has its own historical tradition”? “Alternative tradition of history recording,say ‘oral tradition’? The best example that came to my mind is the jewish example,yes,you guess it right,the old testament. Not that the Old Testament can’t be reference for some items but should one believe the Noah’s Ark passengers re-populated the entire human race? Or the human race originated from iraq where the Garden of Eden was supposed to be?
          Haha ,“and its quite well documented”? That’s the biggest joke of the week at Robert Lindsay’s blog. If its so,why so much efforts by you and you fellow hinduwadis pushing ‘Out of India’ here and there?
          Most of the prominent Indian historians like Romila Thapar or Ramchandra Guha said the ‘Aryan migration/invasion’ did occur. Sure you can label them as ‘secular’ and you can also interpret certain Indian historical issues from a nationalistic view like the 1857 uprising. But to claim ‘Out of India’ civilisational origin of Europe based on mythology or epics is just as far stretched as ‘Out of Iraqi Eden’. Why should hinduwadis want to emphasise ‘alternative history writing’ as reference? Sure you’ll hate what I going to say:
          ***Lack of proper history writing is a hindu civilisational defect. ***
          The jews, even with their Old testament,had proper historians like Josephus. What would an average enquirer on the subject prefer to read, normal chronology/history writing or fairy tales? Yes,I agree Gods were actually ancient kings or heros; but ancient kings fought with sword/spear on horse back/chariot not flying chariots with winged horses or in the hindu case,even in flying machines/saucers.
          Even said, honestly ‘Out of India’ is NOT my concern and you can claim whatever you like. Just an advice to you my hindi Bhai: I can see hinduwadis are quite frustrated but why not spend more time to solve Indian unemployment problem which undoubtly is Bharat’s biggest calamity?

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Lin,

          Ramachandra Guha and Romila Thapar just know how to rehash what they THINK is history. Its pretty convenient to just go with the flow. Neither has ever done a critical analysis of the merits or demerits of the theory in a scientific way. To assess the AIT, you have to analyze the archaeological, literary, linguistic and genetic aspects of the debate. They just know how to mimic what others, read Westerners, say. Has Ramachandra Guha or Romila Thapar ever analyzed the linguistic side of this debate? I don’t think so. They don’t even have a clue.

          About Indian Historical sense, do read that link I sent you from an actual professional historian who would be in a position to make a judgement. India had/has both, oral history as well as written history. Some examples are Akhyanas, Narasamsis, Vamsavallis, Vamsanucharitas etc. There is a huge mass of such literature accumulated over the centuries/millenia detailing historical events, as well corpuses of inscriptions of each and every Indian dynasty detailing events. Indian history is largely told by its own sources.

          The mentioning of Indian Tribal emigrations westward to Europe in Indian documents is not the same as Noah’s Ark or the Iraqi Garden of Eden, mentioned in Old Testament. Because, the former event (ie. Indian emigration) is highly plausible and has the support of linguistics, albeit in the form of related languages spoken in Europe to this day. Whereas Anthropology and Genetics has discredited the Iraqi homeland of humanity, it’s Africa, by science.

          The Story of Noah’s Ark is an insult to common sense. Science, that is Linguistics, verifies the truth in Indian sources when they state that an Indo-European speaking tribe, left India towards Central Asia, from where they went further westwards into Europe. That is historical truth and event mentioned in the Indian sources, verified by science.

          The Itihasa and Puranas, for example, give a systematic account of the Vedic era kings and dynasties and events pertaining to the Vedic era in Indian history. You ask if OIT is correct, then why are we Hindutvavadis propounding it? It’s because a falsehood is trying to masquerade as a historical truth, in the form of AIT. So, in such a situation of historical bungling, the truth (ie. OIT) needs to be asserted more forcefully.

          And lastly, we Hindutvavadis have no insecurity at all. The facts and the Truth is on our side with respect to OIT. It just needs to be emphasized.

        • Dammit Baji Rao, I am banning your curry ass. Are you retarded? How many times have I told you to quit using code and pre tags? There is something retarded about you Indians. I can’t tell you how many of you dotheads have behaved this way on here. I will never understand you.

          Now get lost elephant jockey. Back to Bharat Mata!

          HAND!

      • TRASH

        LIN Look at the impact sort of Caucasians from Siberia had in Manchuria though your dynasties and emperors initially tried to wall them out. Manchurian Chinese clearly have a Soviet influence. They get drunk on vodka like Russians. They look like Eurasians. But they were enormously influential for centuries.

        Overseas Chinese are the purest Chinese, for my money, because they’ve been inbreeding in places like Philippines or Vancouver for 2-5 generations.

        Go to Cebu, PH-don’t ask me why Fujian people went there for business but some have done very well like Sy of course-you’ll walk through whole trading towns full of Fujian people who look more Hakkan than anyone in the Fuji province.

        • Lin

          Coastal Chinese actually have much northern Chinese ancestry.In the past 2000 years or so,chinese have been moving south from the Northern Central plain. Its pointless to say who are the ‘purest’ Chinese. My ancestors definitely were not southern aborigines. Yes,let me call it ‘Han invasion/migration’ and it is a fact.

      • TRASH

        LIN

        Would you agree that Manchurian Chinese are the most Caucasian people in China?

        A white is curious how Manchurians-clearly a Eurasian group from Russia somewhere-became more influential than an unimportant minority like the Uighur Turkics in Western China. True enough never as influential as Han or Hakka.

    • Baji Rao 1

      @Sujay Mandavilli,

      According to recent genetic studies done on the Indian population, there was no genetic input from Central Asia during the ancient era. Genetic studies show that 99 percent of Indians are a combination of Ancestral North Indian/ANI and Ancestral South Indian/ASI.

      The ANI and ASI were both indigenous prehistoric Indian tribes that existed in India between 40,000 to 60,000 years ago. These two Ancient Indian tribes merged with each other and produced their descendants, the modern day Indians that you see today.

      About the term “Aryan”, the term in the Rig Veda was both cultural and tribal initially. It referred to the Indian Tribe/Sub-tribe that was associated with the composition of the Vedas, literally people of the book, in Haryana-Uttar Pradesh region of North India. This Indian tribe was known as Purus and a sub-tribe within this tribe, called the Bharatas, were known as Aryans because they were responsible for composing the Rig-Veda. Gradually, over time, Arya/Aryan and Vedic culture became a pan-Indian heritage and all Indians across India accepted Arya heritage and called themselves “Arya”.

      The term “Arya” was actually exported from India to Iran, not the other way around. This is because another Indian tribe by name of Anus/Anavas, according to our documents, emigrated from India towards Iran, after a defeat in battle at the hands of the Vedic Aryans/Purus. This battle is known as the BATTLE OF TEN KINGS/DASARAJNA WAR. in the Rig-Veda. The Vedic Aryan Indian King who defeated the Anus/Iranics and expelled them from the Northwest was King Sudas.

      • Look YOU SUBHUMAN SHITTING-IN-THE-STREET SWINGING-FROM-A-TREE APE MONKEY SHITndian “bajirao1” you’re just regurgitating the fucking trash the fucking SUBHUMAN RSS-hindutva FROTH on and on about. The only SUBHUMAN CREATURES that buy into the fucking trash of “out-of-APE-MONKEYLAND are YOU SUBHUMAN SHITTING-IN-THE-STREETS SHITndians.

        MORON SHITndian “bajirao1” WHY ARE THERE NO TRACE OF DRAVIDIAN IN THE INDO-EUROPEAN LANGUAGES? YOU FUCKING 80IQ SUBHUMAN APE MONKEY SHITndians can’t even LOGICALLY deduce the answer to that because YOU SUBHUMAN SWINGING-FROM-THE-TREES APE MONKEY SHITndians ARE NOT CAPABLE OF IT.

        Stop sucking the cocks of the SUBHUMAN RSS-hindutva VERMIN and wake the fuck up from the fucking brainwashing that has so fucked up YOU 80IQ SHITTING-IN-THE-STREET APE MONKEY SHITndians.

        Besides don’t YOU APE MONKEY SHITndian “bajirao1” have work to do with “every single NASA employee is a SHITndian” at NASA?

        • “baji-rao” is just another typical monkey-faced south-indian half-austric mutts, can’t stand the truth that they are ugly piece of subhuman bastards.Look at my face, i’m their pure forefather.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @falsehistoryindia,

          You know what you really are? You’re uglier than the stuff that came out of my ass this morning. You seem jealous of Southis. Could be because a Southi dude got with your sister and mom and did a gang bang, with you filming it. I saw your site by the way. It shows a beautiful Northi girl with a nice Southi guy. You must be a loser, jealous Northi whose dream girl was picked up by a Southi dude, and while he’s cumming away down there, you’re shaking at the stars with your Dog.

      • Baji Rao 1

        @Archie Laech,

        Considering my IQ, seems I am smarter than you any day. Look at the way you type, you can’t even type without using capitals every now and then in your responses. What happened? Never completed elementary school? Are you an elementary school drop out?

        I can easily answer that question you asked about no Dravidian substratum in Indo-European languages. The Western IE languages don’t show a Dravidian substratum because there were no Dravidian speakers in Northern India/Northwestern India, from where the ancestors of Western Indo-European migrated from to start with.

        The Vedic Indo-Aryan branch was the stay at home branch which interacted with the Dravidian speakers sometime after the emigration of the Western IE branches from Northwest India. So obviously, there wouldn’t be any Dravidian influence in Western IE simply because they left India well before any interactions with Dravidian speakers could even take place.

        Did you understand, elementary school drop-out?

        • TRASH

          RAO

          What, might I ask, are you? South Indian or North Indian? Goa?

          I keep assuming your a black Nair with no drop of Aryan in your DNA but you are so Pro Aryan unlike most resentful Dravidian people that you sound like a Punjabi except your sign in name is South Indian.

          What is so interesting about Indians is that they do not travel around their own country as often as a Gora does. A Nair knows nothing of Delhi and a Punjabi knows nothing of Tamil Nadu.

          Just what are you?

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          You ask what am I?  I'm just an Indian and proud to be one at that. 
          You got it completely wrong about Aryan/Aryanism.  Aryan/Aryanism
          is not about race or color or blood.   It never was.  You're thinking of
          the Nazi belief which redefined an Aryan as being White, when the 
          funny thing is, that was never the case historically.  
          
          Aryan/Aryanism is about high culture and high spiritual values.  
          Its basically Hinduism or Sanatana Dharma.   If you adhere to the 
          Vedic Hindu/Aryan way of living and thinking are you an Aryan. 
          Being an Aryan is not Biological, but cultural only.    
          
          South Indians always considered themselves as Aryas just as the 
          North Indians do too.  Its because we share the same overriding 
          cultural spiritual heritage of Sanatana Dharma/Hinduism/Vedic/Aryan
          culture.  Indian culture is basically Aryan culture at its best.
          
        • TRASH

          ROBERT & RAO

          If visiting India for any reason Gora people should take pains to stay as close to Brahmans and Parsis (Iranians) as possible via 4-5 star hotels and first-class travel.

          Lower and lower-middle caste people especially in the South will bellow their nationalistic pride in your face in public places unlike the more refined and sophisticated Caucasoid-appearing types.

          It’s worth paying a pittance more to avoid them.

        • TRASH

          RAO Actually we Goras find one thing about Hinduism to be quite accurate-Brahmans are “brighter and whiter” than you.

      • TRASH

        RAO Kashmir Pundits from the Indus Valley did not migrate anywhere, much less introduce Sanskrit languages to Europe.

        India was a series of unconnected fiefdom states until Brits showed up.

        Gypsies are the only people who ever migrated OUT of India and they have been a headache and a nightmare.

        No evidence in Persia or Central Asia exists of a mass migration outwards from the Indus Valley into other countries.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          Boy, you really are a novice when it comes to understanding stuff.
          Kashmiri Pundits are Indo-Aryans who stayed at home and never left
          India. Sanskrit is an Indo-Aryan language, as are most Indian
          languages. I mentioned that Indo-Aryan was the stay at home branch
          while the other Indo-European branches left India gradually over the
          course of time. So the question of introducing Sanskrit languages to
          Europe doesn’t arise since the European languages belong to a
          different branch of Indo-European. Sanskrit is not the ancestor
          PIE language from which all other IE languages descend from.
          PIE was spoken in North India where it fragmented into several
          dialects belonging to different branches. Most of these branches left
          North India with Indo-Aryan remaining at home right to this day.

          There is no need for a mass migration of Indians to be seen in
          Central Asia or Persia because these Indian migrants were relatively
          small in number. In India’s case there is no evidence of any mass
          intrusions of so-called Aryans from the outside either.
          The movement of Indians into Central Asia and Iran is testified
          in Records like the Rig-Veda, Puranas and Iranian Avesta for example.

      • TRASH

        RAO The only Indians to have passed through Iran were Gypsies who grabbed some loan words.

        Iranians have been coming down to India forever. Your market-dominant minority is like a Gora a “caste-less” Parsi (Freddie Mercury or the steel-company owner Tata for example) that is in no way Hindu at all.

        Sorry Baji but you Indians or perhaps Indo-Aryans just never became a seafaring or geographically-mobile people. You’ve been invaded by everybody from Greeks to Chinese but never invaded or colonized another country until you entered Brampton, Ontario.

        You’ve been colonial subjects but never had a colony.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          Gypsies were not the only Indians who passed through Iran.  
          The Mittanni Indo-Aryans who were Indians also passed through
           Iran on their way to Iraq and Syria where they conquered and set
           up a kingdom.   The Parthians who conquered and ruled Iran 
           were loudest in proclaiming their descent from an Indian King by 
           name of Abhyavartin Chayamana.   The first Aryans who invaded Iran
           were ethnic Indians as seen in the Avesta and in the Assyrian 
           inscriptions of Shalmaneser.  Even Rig-Veda mentions Iranic tribes
           moving west towards Iran, after their defeat at the hands of Vedic Aryan
           King Sudas in India.    Avesta confirms it too. 
          
           Iranians were mostly traders and scholars who came to India 
           because India was far wealthier and learned than them, so they were
           tolerated.  Parsis were basically refugees who begged for refuge from
           Hindu King.   
          
           We were never a Sea-faring or geographically mobile people?
           Really? Then how do you explain the fact that Indians had thriving
           maritime trade with Greece, Rome, East Africa, South-east Asia, China,
           the Middle east.   We were doing sea trade with the Mesopatamians 
           back in 3000 BC!  The earliest Ship dock is found in India in the IVC.
           Indian cotton has been archeologically found even in mexico, 
           in ancient times.   Bali, an island in Southeast Asia is Hindu.  
           Because Indians went into South east Asia and spread Hinduism
           there.  Check out the Chola empire of South India.  Even on land, 
           our tribal ancestors conquered a good chunk of Afghanistan, 
           Central Asia and the Steppes by the Indian tribe Dhruhyus.  
           These guys went further into Europe as well.  Another tribe 
           the Anus/Anavas went into the Middle east.   
          
           Yes, we faced invasions but most of these invasions were successfully
           defeated and kept contained to the Northwest, without really
          affecting India at all.   Most invaders couldn't even get passed the 
          Indus river.  Or if they did, they were driven back and contained.
          
      • TRASH

        RAO Goras are more likely to interact with higher-caste Northerners or Parsis (No caste, Iranian) and they never bellow their Indian Nationalistic Pride in our face the way middle and lower-caste Hindus do.

        Here’s the secret with Brahman and Parsis. They do not feel the kinship or Aryan pride that you do or feel the need to express it to Goras because they are almost as tall/pale as we are.

        I’m going to be vague about what I did in your country but without exception it is always some lower to middle-caste person like you proclaims their Indian pride on a public bus or train.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

           Lol fucktard, Aryanism is not about race.  Its purely cultural and spiritual.
           It doesn't matter how tall or pale you are.  That is not the criteria for
           being an Aryan. If that is the case, then you may as well include the
           Albinos of Africa or the light skinned Semites of the Middle East as 
           "Aryans" as well.  Heck, even include the Ainu people of Japan in the
           basket just for the fun of it!      Piss of you bag of Aryan wannabe shit.
          
      • TRASH

        RAO Yep, you’re a low-caste Southie who combs your hair with coconut oil and smokes BDs or chews beetle nut. You have red hot chilli pepper BO and eat with your hands unlike the more Caucasoid Punjabis.

        You probably puff yourself up to Gora business people or tourists outside some Bangalore call center or Cochin and ask them how they like India.

        For my money Parsis like Tata or Freddie Mercury are probably the closest thing India has to Aryans and they are decidedly not Hindus.

        No Brahman or business-caste Gujarati or Parsi would get hot and emotional the way you effeminate Dravidian types do.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          I have nothing against Parsis.  I appreciate any good that they 
          have done for my country, just as any Indian would.  But Parsis
          are definitely not as Aryan- like as Indian Aryan Hindus.  Because
          Parsis come from a defeated nation which lacked the stamina for
          protecting Aryan heritage and spirit.   Iranians cowardly gave in to 
          Islam and have been worshipping some Arabs as their Gods for the
          last 1400 years.   This is not the case with Indian Hindus.  We too 
          were attacked by Islam for 1200 years but we fought and sacrificed 
          heavily throughout that period in innumerable battles and wars 
          and triumphed militarily in the final round.  We fought and won, which
          is why we are still around unlike many other ancient peoples.  
          It is because of our historical Aryan spirit, which made this possible.
          
        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          Dravidians or South Indians are not effeminate people.  They have 
          a proud martial traditions and kingdoms of the past, if you didn't know.
          Check out the Chola empire, it invaded a good chunk of South-east
          Asia at one time.   The Satavahana Empire founded by South Indians
          was a military bulwark against the Scythian invaders for almost 400 
          years.  The Vijayanagara Empire was another proud South Indian
          empire that stood like a rock for almost 300 years against Muslim 
          barbarians.   Dynasties like the Pandyan and Chera were greatly
          respected even in Rome.   When a Naval embassy was sent by the
          South Indians to Rome, it was received on equal terms by none other
          than the Roman Emperor Augustus.   
          
          Much of what you say simply has no credibility.
          
  5. if you want to marginalize fringe theories, better research and ‘Globalization of Science’ is the key

    Sujay Rao Mandavilli

  6. Hbd investor

    They also hate China, China’s rise goes against their narrative that india was the wealthiest and greatest before the evil Europeans made them poor.

  7. Sam J.

    Who cares about India? We should care about the poor starving White children in South Africa.

    https://josministries.prophpbb.com/topic11587.html?sid=74214e47e4be3b2b883dfb05fc20c7dc#p76728

    http://www.safrpsa.org/

    • Barack Thatcher

      As I’ve said before;
      “Nationalism”…is like what Bill Maher said about religion.
      A case of “surely the rational part of your brain sees….”

      you see things that way because you are a part of that race. Their is no logic or rationality behind it. So why think that way if you know it is irrational?

      • Sam J.

        “…“Nationalism”…is like what Bill Maher said about religion.
        A case of “surely the rational part of your brain sees….”…”

        Nationalism makes perfectly good sense. It’s how people band together to keep others from taking their stuff. If Nationalism doesn’t make sense then does cityism? Why should there be cities with police forces that “protect” the city? Shouldn’t, under your great “rational” leadership, every one just be for themselves with no police to stamp out that evil cityism?

        As for religion if there’s no God where did all this stuff come from? You may not like this question or ridicule it as being of no value. I’ve yet to see any atheist answer it but a religious person can easily respond that God made it. There’s a LOT of stuff in the Universe. It so much stuff it’s beyond human comprehension. Try to convince people that all this came from nothing and see how far you get.

      • I actually agree with Sam regarding how nationalism is beneficial, though urge itself is bond separate from reason, it’s basically instinctual in the act of protecting perceived kin that is basically automatic.

        As for religion, well, first when we say “God” what are we talking about? Are we talking simply about a conscious force being things or the actual Abrahamic God? If the latter then it’s sort of hard to argue that considering inconsistencies within the text and the applications of the principles in real life, overall not proving it more real than other religions.

        If a simply force itself that designed it then…..why? As far as we can tell the universe is rather random and the concepts of an “beginning” or “end” is really limited to us. Also, I’m pretty sure it wasn’t that there was nothing before the Big Bang but rather what preceded it was a different universe.

        http://science.howstuffworks.com/dictionary/astronomy-terms/before-big-bang.htm

        • Sam J.

          There are other Universe theories that are just as viable that don’t have any “Big Bang” at all. If the Universe is too complicated for us to comprehend, and I say it is, then how can we comprehend God? I doubt we can or ever will. All religions are just a short cut I believe. The best we can do.

        • When comparing comprehending the Universe (e.i known universe) and God, one would probably would need to understand that fundamentally the universe known by God’s knowledge was the Earth, Sky, and everything inbetween as we see it. This was greatly expanded with science.

          As of now I doubt science will have an exact origin but the process that it works on will likely get us on a likely path. I can say religion would be a short path, but the best we could do seems questionable. First off most if not all focuses more on human conduct and nature over the importance of the Universe and it’s traits.

          Even then, Polytheism on a religious basis was used more often to apply things to nature seeing how it divides major forces and principle separate, clashing in a complex and dynamic nature since the dawn of time. Best example, Greco-roman Mythology.

  8. Jason Y

    How would the invasion of India be any different than the invasion of the USA by Europeans? We could get into a long argument on whether the Euros were justified or not, as we can also regarding Indo-Aryan invaders.

    Actually, even though I’m generally liberal, I don’t care for a lot of stuff about Dravidians or Amerindians, even though I have a lot of Amerindian ancestery. Bottom line, it’s all just nature and how it operates. The strong take over weaker tribes. The Amerindians were heavily weakened by disease the Euros did not purposely bring over. Also I’m the Dravidians had weaknesses that were easily exploited by invaders.

    • Baji Rao 1

      @Jason Y,

      The difference lies in the fact that one of the invasions did take place and in the other, purported invasion never happened! Euros invaded and replaced Amerindians in America, is a fact of history which is well documented. But the alleged Indo-Aryan invasion/migration of India/Dravidians is not supported by any documented evidence from any scientific field worth the name.

      There is archaeological, literary and linguistic evidence for the European invasion of America. But in India’s case, there is no evidence from Archaeology, Literature, Linguistics or Genetics showing an invasion of so-called “Indo-Aryans” coming from the outside, supposedly overwhelming the so-called “Dravidians”, in the alleged time period.

      That is the difference. You are taking a proven historical event namely European invasion of America and comparing it to a dubious, unproven theory of Indo-Aryans. It would be like comparing the European invasion of America with the possibility of Aliens from Mars coming and invading the Earth. Does it sound possible? Maybe. But would it likely happen? Probably not.

      It’s the same with the Indo-Aryan Theory. It is a theory, not a proven fact.

      • TRASH

        RAO

        If Parsi people arrived in India as beggars they improved their standing to be the richest people in India today. TATA et al.

        Resisting Islam in the South? Sailors from Yemen traded and intermarried to create the Muslim Indians in Kerala today-or maybe it was Indian sailors who came back with Yemeni women.

        Greek Seafarers sailed to India. You did not sail to Greece. True enough India beat back Alexander but he came to you, you did not go to Greece. Buddha is the only Indian who left India and made a major cultural imprint elsewhere in Medieval History.

        Indian seafarers sailing to Yemen? Obviously they learned math from. East Africa? Possible.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          When I meant resisting Islam in the South, I was talking militarily. The Hindu Vijayanagar empire kept Islam at bay for nearly 300 years. The Muslims of Kerala, for the most part, like 99.9% have no connection with Yemenis. They are descendants of local converts.

          Greeks did not sail to India first. It was in fact Indians who initiated maritime contacts with Greece first. It was during Chandragupta Maurya, Indian emperor, who organized a navy and sent naval missions to Greece, Syria, Egypt, Cyrene, Macedonia and Epirus between 322 BC to 198 BC, along with his successor Ashoka. The Greeks came up to India’s borders first by land, not by sea.

          Alexander came to us, fine. But if you think about it, the Greek language is Indo-European, therefore Indian Indo-European speakers belonging to the Anus/Anava tribes migrated/invaded Greece first and introduced Greek language to the people of Greece. Greek is clearly related to Sanskrit.

          The Mycaenean “Greek” civilization clearly predates the arrival of Indo-European speaking Greeks, so that indicates that the ancestors of present day Greeks lived in Greece well before any Indo-European Greek speaking invaders arrived. In other words, the white population of Greece acquired their language from invaders coming from the east.

      • TRASH

        RAO Ancient Indian seafarers sailed to Rome? That’s a new one.

        For my money the Indian who had a large historical impact outside India was Buddha.

        As for Parsis arriving in India as beggars, they are doing pretty well today.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          Indians did sail to Roman ports. Many Indian Naval embassies were sent by the South Indian kings of the Pandyan, Chera etc dynasties. There was even a thriving Indian-Roman maritime trade that lasted centuries. There is a Roman source called Periplus, I think, that details the the Indian naval embassies to Rome. Augustus met them on terms of equality.

      • TRASH

        RAO RESPECT FOR BRAHMANS

        You can learn a great deal from the way in which Brahman people behave towards other people in India-though its silently arrogant.

        They do not care what others say about them.

        Being not particularly fearsome fighters in India (Those are probably Sikhs) they avoid confrontation through distance and sense of removal. They do not even speak or argue. If it is not a positive gain they simply move on.

        They do not waste words on profanities.

      • Baji Rao 1

        @TRASH,

        The richest people in India are not Parsis. I am sorry but you are wrong. Among the top 100 Billionaires of India as of 2016 AD, at least 95 are Indian Hindus, with only a few Parsis or Muslims represented. This is not just only in the top 100 billionaires, the richest man in India is Hindu. In the top 5 richest, 4 are Hindus, one Parsi. In top 10 richest, 7 are Hindus, 3 Parsis. If you keep scrolling down the list, its almost Hindu pretty much all the way.

        You don’t have to take my word for it. This is from a Forbes ranking list. Read it below:

        http://www.forbes.com/india-billionaires/list/3/ tab:overall

        • TRASH

          That could be true but the average Parsi is better off than the average Hindu, so if they did arrive as beggars to India 800 years ago they have done something right (But like most ethnic minorities Parsis cooperate/lend one another start-up and so forth).

          I’m of the opinion Dravidian seafarers were busy going East at the time that Greeks and Arabs started reaching South India. We know they did because they reached Sri Lanka and Maldives and even Southeast Asia.

          Greeks descended from Indo-Europeans who originated in Persia or Russia? Plausible, but I’m of the opinion Aryans had nothing to do with Southern Europe or introduced Sanskrit there. More likely whites as we know them originated in Russia and spread in various directions.

          Middle Eastern sailors have always been migrating to South India. Muslim Indians from the South have a different physical appearance, subtle yes, but one can see the hooked nose on them.

          Syrians have a weird relationship with Kerala. Syrian Christians have been there forever and are fairly prominent. How or why they did is unknown.

          Indian seafarers sailing across the Arabian and up the Red Sea into the Med. I doubt that. Even in ancient times the silk route existed so it is possible some Indian traders trekked through Iran and Turkey to Greece.

  9. “India” is not a real nation. “Indians” are just as much of a people as “Hispanics” are. The only difference is, is that Hispanics have a unifying language and culture along with a Latin-Southern European ruling caste at the top. The White Latins of Latin America, if they wanted to immigrate back to Spain and Portugal, could do so and would be accepted.

    There are no more true Indo-Aryans who remain after the Aryan Invasion (not a theory, but actual truth) occurred thousands of years ago, which let to the destruction of the Dravidian Indus Valley Civilization. Those same Aryan invaders would’ve been aghast to see the mixed-race “impure” people of modern “India” claiming to be members of the Hindu Upper Castes (especially Brahmin, who is seen as almost god-like). All of “India’s” so called Upper Castes would be immediately relegated to the status of “Untouchable”. “Untouchable” is a nice way of saying human garbage or filth. Which is how the Aryans would’ve seen non-Aryans back in the ancient world.

    In other words, all modern “Indians” are Dalits/Untouchables. The real Aryans wouldn’t tolerate even looking at them. And that includes every single Hindu Nationalist up to and including Narendra Modi. Who, in reality, is just another Untouchable Australoid.

    • TRASH

      DRAVIDIAN Actually Kerala seems to have improved since the Brahmans were kicked out. Even a Gora like me who spent a limited amount of time there can see that. Socialism in South Indian actually seems to work quite well. Cochin is clean, crime free and South Indian prostitution on the street is rare (Try walking in Jo Jo in Mumbai at night if you are a Gora).

      I’m of the opinion that North Indians are so diverse and heterogeneous that nothing but individualistic capitalism works for them. A Bengali and a Punjabi share few cultural similarities.

      • Kerala will only truly improve when it has backbone and courage to stand for its Dravidian heritage and past against New Delhi. Kerala will only come alive when it is reborn as a part of Dravida Nadu and says goodbye to India forever.

        As long as Kerala and other Dravidian nations like Tamil Nadu are intimidated into allowing India to illegally occupy it, the true essence of who we are will continue to be suppressed. Foreign languages such as Hindi and Sanskrit, which are barbarian languages brought by unwelcome Aryan invaders, will continue to be forced on the Dravidian people. We will be forced to identify with the false construct of “Indian Nationalism” and the false idea of an “Indian people”.

        We will be forced to salute a foreign flag (Indian tricolor) that does not represent us, sing a national anthem that is alien to us, and pay homage to a government (“Lok Sabha” is NOT Dravidian) that will always be our intractable enemy.

        It isn’t just Brahmins that need to be kicked out. India and everything about it has it go. Hindi language. Bollywood. The “Hindu” history that represents the Indo-Aryan invaders and not the true indigenous peoples. And the false “Indian” nationalism that posits that we are one people, when we are 20 different nations with little in terms of a common identity.

  10. SHI

    India is a mediocre country. Indians cut corners in everything and that is the reason you find everything here in a state of perennial decay. If left to fend for themselves, all of India would collapse to the level of Haiti.

    Right now, I’m having Carslberg beer at a 5 star resort in A beach town called Diu, it feels so good. It’s only 180 rupees (US $2.50) for 650 ml. Most local Indian beer brands like Kingfisher, Haywards etc. taste like crude oil. I hate Carlsberg, Heineken, Budweiser, Fosters and other mass produced beer brands the West exports to third world countries. But in India, you don’t have a single artisan beer which will not smell like donkey piss. What passes for “scotch whisky” in India is not even made of barley, but sugarcane malt, which technically means those beverages are rum concoctions. You shall not call them whisky, it feels so dishonest. But Indians don’t care about quality, brand and taste. They’ll just drink anything to feel drunk, absolutely no taste or class. Indian high end “champagnes” and “red/white/rose wines” are what you’ll find in an Aldi in Brussels/Paris for 2 Euros, these are beverages not fit for human beings. Yet at so-called 5 star resorts like this one I’m in now, the dishonest purveyors sell the substandard alcohol to the gullible, stupid Indian consumers as if it were meant for gods. And people are paying a premium for this hooch, like 2000 rupees a bottle (US$35). I feel so cheated even though I’m not the one paying for that crude oil tasting beverage. Why is the average Indian consumer treated so shabbily? Surely we are entitled to some decent local beers and whisky which taste real, and not overpriced.

    This 5 star resort itself is in a state of decay. The water hose in the toilets doesn’t work, the toilet paper is missing because someone probably stole it, and there are shit stains everywhere on the commode seat because nobody cleans it anyway. The swimming pools contain water so chlorinated that enjoying a dip means dealing with rashes and skin infections for another 3 months.

    Darnn the fucking third world.

  11. TRASH

    No Brahman or Gujarati businessman is going to start a fight with “goras” or boast of Indian superiority in a New Jersey bar or Dubai street.

    Nationalism is a low-caste thing. Brahmans are happy to eat, sleep and live with whites.

    • Baji Rao 1

      @TRASH,

      What’s with the Brahmin obsession all times? You seem to be haunted by the ghosts of Brahmins. The fact that they haunt you all the time to the point that you’re obsessed with them is proof of their superiority and your inferiority.

      I am not a Brahman by the way but I have great respect for them.

      • TRASH

        RAO Why do middle-caste Hindus like you show so much reverence for Brahmans who rather ride first class with Anglo people?

        Apart from your religion, which of course means that you have to respect your priests, why do you so love Brahman. I’d agree they are more intelligent than regular Indians.

        In effect, you worship Aryan wisdom from the Russian plains or Siberian steppes because Caucasians possess some intrinsic capacity for self-awareness or reflection that is missing in Dravidian and other Asiatics.

        • Baji Rao 1

          @Trash,

          Your name is quite apt for what you really are, TRASH….Now be a good boy and take TRASH out to the TRASH BIN so that the Dogs won’t eat the TRASH, near Trailer Park Central. Brahmans are respected because they are our own brothers. They are Hindus. I see nothing wrong with that. We Indians don’t worship Aryan wisdom from the Russian/Siberian plains, cause it is an oxymoron. There never was Aryan wisdom produced in Russia/Siberia. Aryan wisdom was produced only in India by Indians. That’s what we worship and know.

          Tell me one thing, why are there no Aryan wisdom texts seen in Europe comparable to the HINDU RIG VEDA, UPANISHADS, RAMAYANA, MAHABHARATA in the relevant time periods. What is the European equivalent of the Rig-Veda or the Upanishads?? Why is it that all the Aryan wisdom was produced in India but hardly anything in Europe?

          Caucasians have an inner ability for self-reflection? If that were true, then how come you don’t have a spiritual heritage compared to what the Indians have? You guys didn’t have enough self-reflection to realize that bathing was good for health and hygiene, when most non-White peoples considered it as common sense to do so at a much earlier date. It was non-Caucasians who taught you guys that bathing was something to be done. Indians elevated bathing to the level of ritual, something which still hasn’t happened with you guys.

          According to AIT, the Dravidians are supposed to be creators of the Indus Valley Civilization, one of the four earliest advanced civilizations of the world, along with China, Mesopotamia and Egypt. You don’t think the Dravidians had any self-reflection when they created the first Indian civilization back in 3000 BC? And what were you Caucasians doing at this time? Why, you were scratching your bums in caves.

        • Baji, stop writing in pre and code tags, ok? It makes your stuff impossible to read, and there’s no need for it anyway. I am not going to keep warning you about this. I am tired of having to go in and edit your stuff.

      • TRASH

        RAO Brahman treat you like the Dhobi Ka Kuta, not Goras who happen to be doing business in India (I lived in India off and on for some time).

        • Baji Rao 1

          @TRASH,

          Brahmans are people, just like any other people. You have real Brahmans and fake ones. No one is perfect. To a real Brahman, true to his actual character, you Goras are actually “untouchables”, Chandalas in Sanskrit. Why? Because you don’t even have a caste, and therefore would be worse than even a Dalit on the social order. Not having a caste is like being a non-entity, without a rank.

        • Baji, stop writing in pre and code tags, ok? It makes your stuff impossible to read, and there is no need for it anyway. I am not going to keep warning you about this. I am tired of having to go in and edit your stuff.

        • There are no “real” Brahmans left in the North anymore. No more pure-blooded Indo-Aryans. All have Australoid racial admixture, and would be “untouchable” if the real Indo-Aryans who lived thousands of years ago were alive today.

          The whole purpose of “untouchability” was to keep non-Aryans from having anything to do with the Aryan conquerors, so the Aryans would keep their blood pure. That is the root of all the inhumanity and cruelty in Hinduism.

          Today, the Aryans have long since been absorbed into the Australoid peoples. However, these Australoid peoples continue to preserve and practice the Hindu heritage and languages of the Aryan invaders. The “caste-fighting” is between different groups of Australoids who try to ascend into one of the higher castes. When in reality, because of Australoid racial admixture, they are by default untouchables.

  12. TRASH

    I’m a Gora who lived in Kerela and Andheri, Mumbai who is haunted by the ghosts of lower and middle-lower caste Hindus/Muslims who actually bother
    Goras/Goris. I’d say Parsis are the same as Brahmans in many ways-two successful and busy to be bothered much by foreigners.

    Anti-foreigner feelings come from low-caste people.

    • Baji Rao 1

      @TRASH,

      You say you lived in “Kerela” but interestingly you don’t know how to spell it correctly. It’s Kerala, not Kerela.

      • TRASH

        I say I lived in Cochin and the waterfalls are nice but it was so unimportant to me (Paycheck, though I won’t disclose my actual profession or identity) I cannot spell Malayalam without a dictionary. Goa is tolerable because the people are basically Hispanics after being sexually used by Portuguese for 5 centuries-Desi girls on the Malabar coast really love those Latin penises, don’t they?

        I agree that North Indians do take their ancestry from Caucasoid tribes but rather prehistoric Arab rapists and looters. Persians probably wrote your ancient texts and Dravidian people shyly accepted it.

        In the choice between my hotel in Cochin and a trailer park in Arkansas I would probably choose the latter although your parents probably manage some prostitute hotel in New Jersey washing infected semen off the sheets that is nearly as bad.

      • TRASH

        Cochin was my least favorite part of India and Goa is much better.

        I forgot how to spell those Adraputti waterfalls too. I got paid-profession and named withheld-and took off.

        Syrian Christians are cool though.

        Some Nair people are alright as well. But most of you are a pain in the ass.

    • S26

      Trash, goras and foreigners in general, need to keep clear of lower caste people until the latter learn basic etiquette and manners. One could start by teaching them not to stare or point and jeer, and that’s the just the beginning. Lower caste men also try particularly hard to try to act macho in front of outsiders, which is plain claustrophobic.

      I wouldn’t be so quick to trust the Brahmin / Parsis though. Apart from the avuncular ones, the rest range anywhere from subliminally hostile to plain ass kissers (I’m sure one of these days the ass kissing gene in Brahmins will be uncovered). Though they’d be a little welcoming, they’d really want to extract the most of a gora, mostly in terms of the social benefit they’d get out having them around.

      This feeling of comfort around Brahmin / Parsis can only be something for the ‘find my true self through Yoga and Tantra’ cultural left men and women and some expatriates specializing in soft skills. I can’t see why a sporty Anglo – Saxon or a technically superior South German engineer would gain socializing with these cunning aristocrats and their elaborate dining and ‘chai’ rituals.

      One thing though, most goras should go closer to young Indian women with caution. The lower castes would give you a bit of the extra hostility and threats if you spoke to one of theirs, and the upper caste women would plain out to try to tease and cuck a gora, who has no chance with these women who are already promised elsewhere.

      • TRASH

        S26

        Dean Morea and other B-grade Bollywood children of a dorky white businessman and a downright homely Indian woman are proof that to some degree race-mixing can improve the child’s appearance.

        Low-class males whether white, Indian or Japanese are going to be inclined to do something anti-social to a male member of another race with an attractive female of theirs no matter what country you are in.

        Russell Peters once remarked that when an Indian saw an ugly Desi married to a White man he feels great relief that “she has been taken off Indian’s hands”. I’m sad to say when a plain Indian woman who is fat or unattractive is seen walking with a wedding ring around with a Gora there is some silent approval/relief. No Desi will deny this.

        If having an affair with a bored 45 year old Brahman woman who was a child-bride in a sham marriage gets a Gora off, it is possible, but no relationship is going to come of it.

        Going to Red Light areas in Mumba as a Gora or approaching Indian women in the street is so stupid that most Whites would not do this.

        “Going rate” is $200/1hr for a polite, clean, beautiful high-class prostitute/call girl who will come to your hotel. If you have to get your rocks off on India, this is the way to go (I deny everything).

      • TRASH

        The average Indian male feels silent approval/relief when a fat, unattractive Indian female whose marriage value would be low visits Indian with some dorky White guy who probably has a reasonably good job and is a stable provider walks around with. Quoting Russell Peters: thanks for taking her off our hands.

        No Gora wants to be jumped by approaching Indian females unsolicited in India. You are always 2 steps away from having violence inflicted on you anyhow.

        Bollywood C-list actors are proof that throwing European blood into the Dravidian gene pool does not actually detract from the looks of the child.

  13. TRASH

    I lived in Cochin at one point and if you are named Rao you’re probably a Nair. Most of the wealthy Indians in South India are Syrian Christians for some reason.

    Brahmans are more “Western”-seeming in both color and behavior so of course Goras find them comforting when we live in India.

    Aryan garbage is nonsense in my opinion having lived in India.

    Above the Hindu line you are descended from ancient rapists and looters from Georgia (Russia that is) to Portugal to Volga River Scythian people who Jats claim descent from.

    I do not believe an ancient honorable tribe of whites arrived into welcoming Dravidian arms.

    • Baji Rao 1

      @TRASH,

      No, you’re wrong as usual. Indians descend from Ancient Indian Tribes called ANI and ASI. These are our ancestors from 40,000 to 60,000 years back. The vast majority of Indians across all castes descend from these ancestors, so your claim about looters and rapists etc is bullshit. The Jatts are not descended from any Scyths as you stupidly claim. The Scythians were ethnically cleansed and eliminated by an Indian Hindu King named Chandragupta the second of the Gupta Dynasty. So there is no possible way for Jats to be descended from them.

      • Baji Rao 1

        @TRASH,

        Only true Aryans, both historically and at present, are the Indian Hindus. Love it or Leave it, but it’s the truth. Deal with it.

        • TRASH

          Oh it really bothers a Gora that Dravidian Hindus are still at the bottom in some prehistoric Arab pecking-order in the 21 st century and actually like it, as you do.

          I’ve got this theory that low-caste Punjabi and Bengali chinks are too macho to let themselves be ordered around by 6 foot hazel-eyed Brahmans and that is why their ancestors found Islam but Dravidian people are a passive lot with a slightly feminine subservience to you.

          At any rate I’m not interested in more Nationalistic xenophobic garbage.

          Go tell a Brahman he is your “bro” and see what his reaction will be.

        • Baji, stop writing in pre and code tags, ok? It makes your stuff impossible to read, and there is no need for it anyway. I am not going to keep warning you about this. I am tired of having to go in and edit your stuff.

        • Baji, stop writing in pre and code tags, ok? It makes your stuff impossible to read, and there is no need for it anyway. I am not going to keep warning you about this. I’m tired of having to go in and edit your stuff.

      • TRASH

        RAO Nobody but a Brahman or Parsis can afford to hire a Gora in India and pay for his travel/accommodation costs so it is doubtful these 6 ft hazel-eyed associates who hired me misrepresented their caste. Shorter and darker the lower the caste goes the Gora rule of thumb.

        You think think they are your “brother”-I doubt they’d want you to marry their sister and darken their bloodlines.

        Jatt Sikhs and Tamil Dravidian descend from the same ancestors? Even a Gora from an Arkansas trailer park who’d never been to New Jersey would not believe that.

        Gupta was a Bangladeshi or Bengali chink whose ancestors probably came from Tibet or Nepal.

        You’re history is so trivial to a Gora that I cannot keep track of every Mongol, Armenian, Georgian and Arab horde that rearranged your DNA the old fashioned way every few centuries. Who gives a fat rat’s ass?

      • TRASH

        RAO Gupta was a Bengali and Scythian people migrated to Punjab. I know you are from the South and no less about Indian history even than a Gora who spent a few weeks smoking marijuana on a Goa beach but how do you connect these two?

      • TRASH

        Gupta was a Bengali chink who came about 500 years after the Scythian tribes assimilated into the Punjab and became Jatts-a different PART of North India completely.

        Are you even Indian or are some 3rd generation Indian-American in New Jersey? Have you even BEEN to India?

      • TRASH

        RAO Are you a black Nair? Nothing against Nair but this Gora is more knowledgeable than most.

        Am I right?

  14. TRASH

    RAO’S ANSWER…Of course you are not Brahman: probably a Nair from the South from the sound of your name. Perhaps Tamil.

    Goras who work IN India will have the greatest degree of contact with Brahmans above the Hindi line.

    Anti-foreign sentiment will be expressed by lower-caste Hindus while Muslims can be downright dangerous for obvious reasons.

  15. TRASH

    BAJI’S GREAT RESPECT Probably you are middle caste so of course you respect Brahman people.

    Parsis for my money are probably best people in India, because of course they are originally from Iran.

    Syrian Christians are nice too.

    Low-caste Indians which means Muslims and Christian converted in the South.

    They’re uncouth and quite stupid.

  16. MEANWHILE…… while the rest of HUMAN CIVILIZED HUMAN BEINGS are damning and embarrassing their dirtiest filthiest places……. along comes “the fountain of ALL civilization” SHITHOLE SHITndia that goes out of its way to point out it “the cleanest places in ‘fountain of ALL of civilization’ mighty india”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qu4ldznD7b8

  17. Lin

    Bob,
    You banned that Rao chap?
    Hell, here’s my last reply to him:

    –Shivaji Singh said ‘India doesn’t lack ‘historical agency’.Why such term ‘historical agency’? Why not ‘historical records’? The answer is precisely the ancient hindus didn’bother(with the exception of a few local chronologers as I said) to write history and have little proper historical records.”historical agency’ could just mean archaeological digs.
    –“Ramachandra Guha and Romila Thapar just know how to rehash what they THINK is history… Neither has ever done a critical analysis of the merits or demerits of the theory in a scientific way.”
    I found it laughable particularly the injustice on Romila Thapar who had been thrown ballistic objects at talks and had received death threats over ‘Aryan migration’. She had been asked by indian gov to write books on indian history.
    –The stuffs he claims to be ‘historical records’ are basically religious manuscript/dialogues, plays, poets… Ever wonder why the travel logs of Chinese Buddhist pilgrims are considered important literature on those indian kingdoms?
    —Hinduwadis are not insecure? Insecurity to me means refuse to accept reality and keep manufacturing ‘pride’ like ancient flying saucers or ancient xeno transplanting an elephant head to a human torso
    — ‘Out of India’ is just lingual issue? Apparently the average northern hindus in the street invoke ‘Aryans’ with racial pride. The ‘Out of India’ ‘lingual’ issue is just a thin veneer over that exercise or hopefully a slippy slope to that goal

    • Lin

      Wait a minute, seems that ancient hindu ‘xeno organ transplant’ and ‘Out of India’ medical tech are real; here’s the proof (Elephant god Ganesh is not the only example):

    • S26

      Lin, are you saying that the use of AIT has never been a slippery slope to non-scientific goals? Isn’t the use of OIT from hindutva trolls / dravidian nationalists, smaller on scale as compared to the use of AIT by white supremacists / brahmins / parsis?

      Just like simplistic OIT nits, low IQ trolls have used the AIT to puke over several public forums, with no inclination towards science. Look at the low IQ commenter ‘Tony Swagger’ here, who claims to be sure that India is shittier than Africa, and no single bit of it is shit free, and that Baji Rao’s semi-australoid mutt brain can’t comprehend science. This brilliant inventor of Google street SHITtracker, seems least interested in any science himself, and low IQ has deterred drawing any meaningful conclusions. Obvious conclusions, such as the fact that the more “Aryan” states are the bigger public shitters. Urban centers in J&K, supposedly most “Aryan” state, will be 25% defecation free next year. Just 25.

      Even you had asked, why no OIT proponent claims the (high criminality) gypsies to be one of their own? There is sufficient proof that the ex-criminal Lambadi tribe has a significant portion of European genes (more closely related to WE than even most Brahmins / Khatris) and they speak an IE language. Where is the Aryan pride for these people? Why isn’t the alt-right celebrating their tribalism and ‘anti-globalization’?

      • TRASH

        S26 Parsis are not Aryan supremacists. They care nothing for Brahmans or Shudras alike. They do not belong to the Caste system and are mostly business-orientated for survival in India (Though in Western Countries some become artists like Freddie Mercury or the Persis Bhambatta).

        • S26

          Trash, of course, I’ve never seen a Parsi interest himself in the Hindu nationalist / caste nonsense. The inclusion of Parsis in that statement, was misplaced.

          My point about the Parsis was, that they have been beneficiaries of the flooding of people from the Indian cow belt into places like Mumbai. They did build the nicer parts of the city, but at a heavy cost, with the most damaging wave of immigrants coming in the 2000s. The only others that seem to have benefited so much, seem to be the Banias.

      • TRASH

        Lambadi gypsies picked up European genes after leaving India.

        • S26

          The Lambadis seem to have been moving front and back between Rajasthan / WE, and that indeed explains the genes in the population in AP, India. The Chenchus and Saharias seem to have a fair deal of similarity to Eastern Europeans (sometimes more than upper castes), and both are tribes.

      • TRASH

        Parsis would be analogous to Asians in LA who prosper from real-estate and groceries, care nothing for European-Americans one way or the other, and hold lower-income minorities in silent contempt.

        Curiously for an Islam-persecuted group, Parsis have no participation in India’s Muslim/Hindu conflict and sit it out in Mumbai suburbs.

        They’ve been in India for an incredibly long time for such a glaring minority. The fact that their inbred to the point that they cannot intermarry by law reflects just how little they care to see their daughter marry some Hindu.

      • TRASH

        Eastern European genes have been in India forever and a day. Georgians evidently are the ancestors of Gujarat and Sikhs have some genetic link to tribes Siberia somewhere. Those are only two.

        Russian hookers and business types are continuing to come to India. They’ve never stopped showing in India.

      • TRASH

        GORAS can only see the behavior in front of them because the historical context is beyond their ability to learn but here are White observations:

        RACIAL COMMUNICATIONS TO WHITES: Khatris and Brahmans regard European whites to be “dumb cousins” from the ancient Aryan gene pool who moved West. We have some of the same rudimentary behavioral traits-cool, unemotional, haughty, unsentimental (to a Dravidian).

        A) Baniya money-people like Brahman just really do not get sucked up into Nationalistic fervor IE beating up some White guy with a 2nd Generation Desi wife on the street or puffing himself up to approach White wholesale fabric buyers in Andheri to tell them “India is best”.

        Most often they find some way to “middle-man” between other groups IE English Colonials and poorer castes.

        B) Baniya people have never been farmers or close to the land. They are city people. So nationalism is much less important to them. It seems to be a poor landowner thing.

        C) Baniya people live overseas for half their life. They re used to Arabs, Goras, whoever. They are much more cosmopolitan.

        D) They make enough money to live in nicer neighborhoods.

        E) West. When you hear of a rise in Indian-American youth gang crime in Vancouver or London, you know it is not their kids.

        • S26

          So khatris and Brahmins have such a scientifically informed opinions of whites, that they were the Aryan cousins who moved west? Almost all Brahmins wouldn’t even want to associate with other Brahmin groups, let alone group their genes and compare them to Europeans. Tiwaris don’t think Upadhyays are worth anything, Anavils don’t value other Guj Brahmins etc.

          Not a single south Indian thinks any north Indian, let alone Brahmins and Khatris are cool or unemotional. They think the exact opposite. EXACT. The South is far more unemotional and repressed.

          Not a single poor landowner supports nationalism. NOT ONE. They all vote for caste or subsidies. Their children possibly. The influx of hindutva into politics is to cater to a younger voter base, with no caste or class differences.

      • TRASH

        S26 A Brahman is related to a white like Chinese are related to a Chippewa Indian from Wisconsin.

        Its way distant.

      • Lin

        “Aryan Invasion Theory’ has a certain ‘racial tone,’ and that’s why Romila Thapar coins ‘Aryan Migration’. My point is people move around since time immemorial, and it’s no big deal. Mind you, ‘Aryan migration/invasion was not a high profile issue since like as I said, Han Chinese have been migrating to the south for 1000’s of years. The ‘Aryan migration/invasion’ thing gained publicity because of internal Hindu caste antagonism and the Hindu elite, trying to PR-mitigate the turmoil, came up with ‘Out of India’.

        Regarding the gypsies, I read they were expelled and sent to exile because of their criminality in the first place. Honestly I don’t give a shit how proudly Aryan they are (except my sister was once robbed by a gypsy girl when she was touring Paris).

    • S26

      Lin, (contd.)

      The northern “Aryan” pride has been used to justify their political dominance over the West and South-Central states, and to flood the latter with millions of “Aryan” public shitters. European nations scapegoat immigrants for social / economical failures. Heck, ask a Bavarian, and he or she will find an immigrant to blame for every problem. It’s either the Turks or the Romanians or the Bulgarians or the Poles. However, India’s problems (a clear indication of the chaos of unchecked immigration) and the subsequent destruction of local cultures and livelihoods of the farmer / pastorals / middle class, is according to low IQ paki / brahmin / alt right chumps the effect of “race-mixing”. How much critical analysis in a scientific way do you see there?

      Further down South, the cunning Tamil nationalists, who’ve internalized AIT in it’s fullest, with their nonsensical notions of superior Tamilian intellect have promoted the myth of India as a IT and tech support hub. In reality it’s barely a major contributor to the economy. Yet many sons and daughters of the agriculturalists and middle class have been pushed into this fake bubble to fill the pockets of the brahmin – bania businesses.

      If the discovery of thin veneers and hidden intentions were enough to disprove theories, then the Aryan migration theory would be completely dead.

  18. Malla

    The Buddha was most probably a White guy. One of the names of the Buddha used often is ‘Sakya Muni’ which translated to Sage (Munis) of the Sakyas. Now who are the Sakyas? Why they are the Scythians who invaded and conquered Northern India from Central Asia (Southern Ukraine/Southern Russia/ Kazakhstan ). Sythians were called ‘Sakas’ in Sanskrit.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-Scythians

    What did the Scythians look like?

    From
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythians

    In the late 2nd or early 3rd century AD, the Greek physician Galen declares that Sarmatians, Scythians and other northern peoples have reddish hair.[73][78] The fourth-century Roman historian Ammianus Marcellinus wrote that the Alans, a people closely related to the Scythians, were tall, blond and light-eyed.[79] The 4th century bishop of Nyssa Gregory of Nyssa wrote that the Scythians were fair skinned and blond haired.[80] The 5th-century physician Adamantius, who often follow Polemon, describes the Scythians are fair-haired.

    In the physical characteristics of Buddha you get
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_characteristics_of_the_Buddha
    characteristic no. 29 :Eyes deep blue

    For more details check out this website : This is not a Nordicist or Neo nazi website at all (not that it would make any difference at all if it had been). The concept is brilliant.
    http://thaimangoes.blogspot.in/2009/08/h9.html

    Buddha most probably was a Scythian, not only that, the Ashoka chakra which is now the official emblem of the Indian Republic and considered an ancient Indian emblem actually originates from central Asia and came to the Indian subcontinent with the White skinned Scythians! The Ashoka Chakra is also present on the Indian flag!!
    The Sakas, ‘people of the stag,’ are associated with the animal symbols of the chakravartin, (universal ‘wheel-turning’ sovereign).

    The Scythians also introduced the cremation of bodies and the erection of burial mounds, or stupas (topes), previously unknown in India.

    • TRASH

      MALLA

      Whites, I’m sad to say, were the looters and rapists of ancient Indian history.

      Aryans were probably males who simply shoved Dravidian men aside and grabbed their women.

      It would be nice to imagine these ancient Russian Caucasians brought high Persian culture to India but I do not believe it.

      Most likely they were rough and rude herders.

      • Malla

        Dear Trash, if you check out that link properly
        http://thaimangoes.blogspot.in/2009/08/h9.html

        you will realize that they were rough and rude herders. They really were. But with time they civilized and contributed a lot to Indian civilization. Just like how the Ostrogoths civilized and became romanised and made their own contributions, or the Mughals who later civilized and contributed to Indian architecture, or the Manchus and Mongols in China. History is full of cases of Northern Barbarians (Germanics, Hittites, Mongols, Celts, Dorians, Macedonians, Manchus, Scythians, Mughals, Vikings) coming south, to better agricultural lands, becoming civilized and innovating new things in civilization.

        • TRASH

          MALLA I’m not sure when the first rude pale Russian cattle-drivers showed up in India the Dravidian would have welcomed the idea that for the next 2,000 years he would be at the bottom of the society.

          But if an ancient Greek were to be told that the barbarian tribes from Germany and Scandinavia would someday run the E.U. and dictate terms to them they would have laughed in astonishment.

  19. TRASH

    S26 Nationalist pride is really a lower to middle caste thing.

    An Indian who embarrasses himself with declarations of Indian pride to a Gora is going to be a Brahman, Parsee or a Khatris?

    Stone fools who bellow their pride or self-assertion to disinterested Gora strangers will be a lower or middle-caste. Always.

    S26 is correct that Brahman and Khatris, half-Westernized, lack any interest in comparing themselves to whites.

    Like chewing beetle nut, its a lower caste and uneducated thing to do.

    Higher castes are more likely to spend a great deal of their lives in the West and not to feel any particular interest to boast that Indian will be a Superpower in 2030 to some German banker on a train.

  20. TRASH

    S26 The young Hindutva who makes a fool himself passionately declaring his Nationalist pride or comparing skin tone with some German holidaymaker will not be a Brahman with a white-collar job in Dubai or a Parsee with a penthouse in Jo Jo, Mumbai. He’ll be lower to middle caste and have less money.

    As for Muslim Indians, who seem to love getting drunk and pimping more than the average Hindu, well, they are the most angry.

    Black Dravidian people may act more emotional with whites simply because of a deep inferiority running through their genes from centuries of being the natives at the bottom of caste system where light is right.

    You’ll actually get none of the emotional fervor or insecure comparisons to the West from a Brahman or Khatris or a Parsee. You’ll get this from lower to middle caste people with less money who do not work in Dubai or the West in white-collar positions.

    Hatred towards Goras is a middle to lower caste sentiment based upon being the tea boys of the British Empire as oppose to Brahman administrators who had and continue to have a good thing going with Western relations.

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