Ryan England on the Alt Left

A comment from Ryan England who has set up his own Alt Left page.

He is pretty much coming from the same place I am, except his wing or tendency wants nothing to do with race realism, racialism, HBD or any of that. He wants to stay out of the race question altogether and says the Alt Left should be neutral on race, which is probably a good idea.

I believe he thinks that race is indeed real, but he does not see the point in talking about it, as all it will do is increase racism against NAM’s and empower the Right. I guess his attitude is that this type of theory can lead to no good, so why should we even talk about it? Let’s not talk about that, he seems to be saying.

He also says that if we are race realists we will be completely destroyed in public opinion, which may well be true.

I believe Ryan said that racialism is a risk of any Alt Left but that it is a trap that the Alt Left should not fall into. That is probably true also.

I think he has good points, but I still want an Alt Left tendency that is race realist but still nonracist and against White nationalism.

Ryan’s Alternative Left Facebook page.

Cool list. An alternative left has been needed for quite some time now. I started a Facebook page to promote the idea.

I’ll submit as a defining characteristic of the alternative left vs. the more mainstream progressives is that the alt-left is much more skeptical of the transcendentalist underpinnings of a lot of leftist thought, especially post 1960s. We are, at heart, a push to bring enlightenment rationalism back to the center of leftist thought and activism.

Transcendentalism – the kind originating back in 19th century New England, had its roots in European Romanticism, and is marked by a kind of idealistic utopianism. Religion and scientific alike were distrusted, in favor of subjective personal intuition and creativity. Nature and people considered “closer to the earth” (indigenous peoples and women) tended to be idealized. Emotion and intuition were extolled as being a kind of liberation from the bonds of strict empiricism. People were thought of as naturally good but corrupted by overly rationalized institutions and belief systems, against which struggle was seen in idealized terms.

I suspect that the alt left’s appeal is to people with liberal sensibilities but who are off-put by romanticist elements in mainstream progressivism. This is marked by the progressive’s tendency to go beyond mere equal rights for “marginalized” peoples and into flagrant idealization of them.

Women, immigrants, people of color, indigenous people, Muslims, Buddhists, LGBT people and so on are not necessarily viewed as superior to white Christian (or atheist) males (although they can be) but as being less corrupted by the soul destroying rationalism of capitalism, objectivism and/or Christian theology, which is thought to instill in the white male an oppressive, dominating mentality. I find this kind of thinking to absolutely pervade post modern progressive thought.

It is anathema to me, and I think the rise of the as yet embryonic alt-left is kind of rationalist and realist reaction to the romanticist conquest of materialism on the left.

 

31 Comments

Filed under Capitalism, Economics, Left, Liberalism, Philosophy, Political Science, Race Realism, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, Religion, White Nationalism, Whites

31 responses to “Ryan England on the Alt Left

  1. Ryan England

    Hey – thanks for the shout-out Robert. I must admit I’m flattered that you bothered with me personally. Just something I’d like to clarify:

    I’m not opposed to discussion of the idea of race realism per-se. I’m not, in fact, opposed to discussion of any idea whatsoever. The mainstream progressive tendency towards stigmatizing and erecting taboos around ideas considered dangerous is one of the major problems I have with it, and one of the reasons I came to feel that an alternative left became a necessity. So I’m very much in favor of honest and open discussion of race realism.

    Given that I believe in a rational and scientific approach (in as far as these are possible) to politics and sociology, this precludes a reactive and emotionally driven response to any but the most flagrantly debased and evil of ideas. I do not reject race realism out of hand, and am open to the possibility that biological and genetic differences between the races exist. Indeed, if they do exist, then our society’s present preoccupation with forced multiculturalism and forced equality of outcome across racial lines (which I also disagree with) seems doomed to fail. For this reason also do I oppose the notion that race realism as an idea should be taboo, though I am personally skeptical that those differences are overwhelming, or even significant to a degree that must be reflected in social policy.

    My concerns are that race-realist theories could end up becoming rationalizations for repressive or discriminatory policies and practices surrounding race, or at the very least can be used to hand-wave away otherwise real and legitimate concerns surrounding racial discrimination or the otherwise very real and very unjust results of a long history of white supremacy. “Racial differences are real” quite often, though does not always, come with an unstated subtext that adds: “and this is why mine is better.”

    Whether race realism ends up being true or not, I maintain that race neutrality is the best policy for governments to take. If racial differences do exist, than policies favoring the “superior” race are unnecessary and policies favoring the “inferior” race are doomed to fail. If racial differences do not exist, than policies favoring any race are unjust.

    Hope that makes sense.

    • Sam

      “…very unjust results of a long history of white supremacy…”

      This statement is extremely prejudicial towards Whites who wish to have a space for Whites uncontaminated with constant calls for Whites to do something or another about everyone else’s racial problems. It assumes that any space for Whites not consumed and directed by other races goals is somehow a “Supremacist ” idea. Is control over “White” spaces supremacy? The idea is foolish. If your name is Edward and you want to control your car is it Edward Supremacy? Is any attempt for Whites to control their collective destiny “Supremacy”? What I think is this is just another long line of propaganda techniques to disarm and subjugate Whites. It’s fine for every other race to demand control over not only their space but also all the spaces that Whites inhabit. My view is that if they don’t want to live under the rules that Whites determine for themselves in their spaces there’s a whole entire planet full of not Whites where they can at any time go and live and not oppress Whites.

      • As long as it doesn’t interfere with others, what you described is hardly supremacy.

        However, what I think Ryan mean is in the context of the bias of a white majority government in the process of establishing race-realist based laws in application of all of the population and not whites exclusive.

        • SD

          PHIL Africans have been in America longer than most whites. Its awfully unrealistic for a man whose grandparents are from Europe to expect all blacks in America who have been there for 400 years to want his uncontested supremacy.

          You really have to go to Australia or Russia for that.

          Or Iceland.

        • By that logic I agree but what mentioned that, say, if an area within a country (unless he meant a country that would automatically include all demographics) is majority white and that those communities were governed by the interests of whites then I would call that supremacy.

          Sam so far hasn’t advocated in the past to clear motivations to interfere with other race’s communities until such actions like assault towards whites being unchecked causes him to suggest retaliation. Other than that, he’d only pushed the idea that America was intended for whites only.

          Well, as for that it may depend on how you look at it. True, regulations were made concerning other races but the direct reason was due to social/economical consequences rather than a direct philosophy to be exclusively white. Still, to Sam’s favor, it doesn’t translate to a lack of Anglo Saxon overall dominant influence so work arounds were the cultural promotion of assimilation of other races cultural and segregation.

        • Sam

          Oh so we’re going to go the old,”They were here first” trick huh? Ok. Here’s a story on the 8,000 year old Windover Skeletons and these people were Caucasians. That’s right White people. The Indians came from Siberia and murdered my ancestors. So they need to get the fuck out(if we’re going by the “I got here fist rule”).

          https://bogbodies.wordpress.com/2012/04/16/windover-skeletons/

          http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/964408/posts

          http://greaterancestors.com/the-windover-pond-giants/

          If you think I’m kidding or trolling about them being Europeans I’m not. Europeans have a very distinct facial structure and are totally different from other races. A decent anthropologist can easily tell what race a person is from looking at their skull.

        • Sam

          Europeans had the mighty curragh skin boats. Perfect for long range ocean voyages.

        • Sam

          Tim Severin’s “Brendan” replica curragh under sail.

          Curraghs make great ocean craft as they are so lightweight they float on top of waves instead of digging in them. They still use them in Ireland today because they are safer in large surf than other craft.

          “…Ireland’s west coast is exposed to the full force of north Atlantic gales and their legacy of big waves. The local solution is the currach, curach or curragh. These canvas-covered rowing boats come in a range of shapes and sizes from a two-person “canoe” 5 metres long, up to an 8.3 metre naomhog which needs four crew, can carry a tonne of livestock or building materials but may weigh less than 100 kilos…”

          http://www.kayarchy.co.uk/html/01equipment/012otherboats.htm

          Michael Bradley says that flat bottomed curraghs are how they moved the stones for stonehenge. Makes good sense. You pull the boat into the shallows and fold down one side. Roll the rock on the boat and fold the side back up. Bail out the water from the boat and you’re ready to go. There are small channels near stonehenge that look like canals. The draft on a skin frame boat would be very low so the canals could be not very deep.

        • To Sam,

          From what I could find, the Kennwick man for example was linked to early Caucasian but DNA analysis has found it to be closer to Ainu people of Japan, northern adapted australoids that were noted to be sketeally European in form.

          https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2009/01/28/ancient-jomon-dna-from-hokkaido/

          https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/03/18/the-jomon-of-japan-13000-bc-to-300-bc/

          http://evoandproud.blogspot.com/2015/08/guess-who-first-came-to-america.html

        • Sam the DNA of the Windover People is Asian. The Caucasian appearance may be similar to Kennowick Man who comes from about that same time frame (Kennowick Man 9,000 YBP Windover People 7,500 YBP), however Kennowick Man only appears Caucasoid because he is sort of an Ainuid.

          Kennowick Man’s skull plots most closely with the Ainu and the Moiriori, an extinct Melanesianized Polynesian people from the Chatham Islands. The Ainu are Australoid and the Moriori were a heavily Australoid Polynesian type.

          Hence the Windover People are probably Australoids. When you cross an Australoid with a Mongoloid, sometimes you end up with a pseudo “Caucasoid” phenotype. These people are not really Caucasoids; they just look like them. This is possibly because the number of possible endpoints for human phenotypes is small, and “Caucasoid is one of the few possible endpoints.

        • Sam

          Kennwick man, West coast. Bog people East coast. You should look at some of the stuff on the Windover bog people. They were superbly preserved. Even some of their brains. Many textiles also. I think the oldest textiles on the planet. Some very high quality.

        • Sam

          Asian? Ainu? I know who the Ainu are. Northern Japan. Bear hunters. If you look a lot of Samurai are Ainu-Japanese crosses. Anyways this is not what I’m seeing.

          Quote,”…DNA samples prove the bodies to be of European origin…”

          http://www.gavinmenzies.net/Evidence/chapter-17-stone-age-sailors-%e2%80%93-the-%e2%80%9cwindover-bog%e2%80%9d-people-of-florida/

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9837837

          and the “Authoritative” link. 🙂

          https://www.stormfront.org/forum/t937550/

        • To Sam,

          I mentioned the Kennickman because it was a finding that was during initial analysis believed to be European.

          As for the DNA of Caucasian strands in Native Americans as you’re link gave, it’s discussed here.
          https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/01/23/solutrean-hypothesis-were-the-first-peoples-of-the-americas-from-spain/

          Also while you linked to a video, the actually hasn’t been published work in terms of the verification of the Bog people, just the documentary itself.

          My link’s author also discusses it as well.

        • To Sam,

          here as well, it’s been found that x2a found the Windover people to be asian based on a book by Rachael Wentz

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windover_Archeological_Site

        • AssemblyLineHuman

          Sam is right. There is nowhere in planet earth, where SJW anti-racists wont attack Whiteness. I dont think anyone who holds the view that the anti-racists are only worried about supremacy really understand them. Even in parts of Europe where the White people have barely seen a non white let alone oppresed one, there is still a demand that they open up their borders.

          You see any where where white people have not sought to destroy their own homogeniety, no matter how it came about, is bigoted, or racist, or xenophobic. They dont care about oppression, supremacy, there are just excuses. Any excuse will do. Never oppressed anyone or invaded, then theyll argue something else, genetic diversity, inbreeding, insular, bigotry, backwardness.

          If you think they will leave Whites who havent enslaved and oppressed alone, youre wrong, wrong, wrong.

          Besides, if one of the aspects of Alt-Left was not buying into cultural Left or SJW bullshit, why claim you are alt-Left, then have issues with its program.

          That seems sus to me.

        • To ALH,

          While you make a point with SJW mantra and how whites actually rule regarding other races in their country, that in of itself doesn’t dispel a presence of tribalism having an influence in a legit atmosphere of accepting race realism. Also, Ryan explained that he doesn’t believe in race realism being taboo and is just cautious in how it would influence policies in cases like America’s.

          In my opinion, based on how Ryan illustrated issues in either race realism or equality doesn’t coincide with the issue of race specified laws, I would hardly say this influence is of anti-racism in the modern sense. Whether they are correct through and through I leave for debate.

        • Barack Thatcher

          Jesus Christ!

          That skull doesn’t even really look Caucasian at all.
          And the DNA confirms that.

  2. AssemblyLineHuman

    I’m not sure why it matters a great deal whether race can be proven to exist or not. Whether a concept like race exist depends entirely on how you define the concept in the first place. I’m pretty sure it does, because its difficult to model the human species without it. No one actually does.

    There is another reason why I think that dropping “race realism” is a losing tactic. The Cultural Left are very much, absolutely, definitiviley race realists. They talk about race ALL THE TIME. They have no issue at all with racial terms like White or Black, but only seem to struggle with the concepts when they are used in a context they disapprove of.

    The Cultural Left act as if Brown and Black people can only get ahead if they are allowed into White nations. The Cultural Left argue that Whiteness is priviliege, you are born with (therefire Whiteness is hereditary and not environment or class). The Cultural Left argue that a poor, low paid White person partakes in White priviliege, because of his Whiteness, even over a richer, more powerful Black man. This model is based on race, not class, not culture.

    I’ve never met a Cultural Leftist who didn’t believe that race exists. Every single SJW, anti-racist, argues and behaves as if race is real. Their entire politics is predicated on race being biological.

    Dropping “race realism” is what Conservatives do. And Conservatives are always on the losing side of the culture war because of that.

    Gerald Celente said that Liberals lie, Conservatives believe. I think in this case, thats true. The Liberals, in the case the Cultural Leftists lie about race, and Conservatives believe them, taking up the ‘race doesn’t exist, we can all be one’ argument. The difference is when an anti-racist does it, they are doing it in a cynical manner as a hammer against Whites and the West which they hate (they do hate us). Ther colourblindenss is a political ploy. Hapless Conservatives take them at face value, and adopt it with all honesty!

    Given that so much SJW, anti-racist and Cultural Leftist behaiviour discusses race, discusses Whites, discusses Blacks, and has no issue identifying these people based on biology, and grouping them as such, ignoring this is a major error. You may as well say “SJW’s, you can do what you like, get what you wan’t. We won’t fight”.

    Screw that. We won’t effect change if we are too scared to upset the screamers, rock the status quo, and avoid criticism from those who wield power, or blindly support that power.

  3. SD

    40 years ago sexual liberation helped to create a hopelessly entrenched fatherless underclass in Britain and the U.S. of single mothers-gang activity, chavs, hopeless poverty all stems from a hapless young woman who spread her legs a few times for a man who move on and never saw the kid.

    Smarter classes fool around too when young, but they use protection wisely and at 30 they settle down: Lower classes always get pregnant.

    Men with “a rail” can father a great deal of illegitimate kids in the prime of their reproductive years.

  4. SD

    SEXUAL LIBERATION AND THE CHAV — HISTORY OF MASS LOOSENESS

    1963 – Mike is born to two honest hardworking lower-class people in US or Britain. His parents are poor, honest and hardworking if uneducated.

    1985 — Mike is 22 and at the height of his “wide-boy” reproductive prime. He lives day to day: taking drugs, casual sex, stealing cars, casual labor. He has none of the morals of his parents-he has some trade like plastering, sells some dope, steals the odd car….AND IMPREGNATES ALL THE YOUNG BROADS WHO THINK THEY ARE LIBERATED.

    Madonna’s PAPA DON’T PREACH is on the radio and young women think they can make a go of it alone.

    1986 — One of Mike’s 4 children is born to Lisa the part-time waitress, aged 20. PAPA DON”T PREACH sums up her life and background. Her Dad is furious at her pregnancy, knowing what is ahead.

    1990–Mike is now long gone. He has fathered several more children, gone to jail a few times, gone straight in his 30’s. Contributes no money.

    1995–Lisa and her chav son by Mike who is named Bill move frequently as she struggles to pay rent and find decent paying jobs as a waitress. Bill sees Mike rarely and his childhood is unstable.

    Lisa is bitter about men and sexual liberation, realizing now it is a license for males to fool around. Mike has had many more children by this time.

    1997–Lisa meets David, a single man who lives off women. He moves in. He sometimes abuses Lisa. Worse, he touches Bill’s penis on a few occasions and also shows porno to him. Bill is now hypersexual.

    2000–Bill attends poor schools full of kids like him. Petty criminality, drugs, sex follow. He wracks up minor convictions in Juvenile Court, shows little interest in school.

    2005–Mike and Bill reunite. Mike is now 42 and worn out. He’s done his jail sentences, had his time with meth or cocaine or crack, has a steady low-paying job, has little to say to his kids whom he did not know very well.

    2006–Bill is now himself a petty criminal and drug user and facing a jail sentence for possession of stolen property.

    …He has a kid on the way, too.

    This is what sexual liberation has done in the last 40 years. Granted males the license to mess around with various women whose unplanned pregnancies they have no intention of paying for.

  5. Sam

    A great scholar named Dufus said,”Non-Whites are the real White Supremacists as they expect us to solve all their problems for them.”

  6. SD

    SAM AND PHIL At the time that Kennewick man lived the continents were still fused together and in fact it is speculated that Europeans wandered down from a land bridge existing between Greenland and Europe via Iceland.

    Boats were not part of it.

    • You state a postulation, but again I’ve shown that the Kennwick man lines up with the Jomon people, ancient people of Japan before the Yaoi from Korea.

    • Sam

      I don’t know how Kennewick man got into this. I was talking about people on the other side of the continent. Maybe Kennewick man was Ainu but I’m not completely convinced because of this Dr. Zollikofer. He said,”If I take my own skull and print it out with a 3-D printer, many people would see a Neanderthal”, DING,DING,DING, he’s got to be a Jew and you can’t believe a damn thing these people say when it comes to this type situation. Just like Gould LIED, LIED, LIED in his made up, fraudulent book, the “Measurement of Man” that students were forced to read the lying Jew book for decades.

    • Sam

      “…At the time that Kennewick man lived the continents were still fused together…”

      They were not fused. There was probably an Ice bridge. I think by 10k years ago the ocean had come up most of the way. The Ice age difference was around 120 meters I think. So 120 feet at Kennewick man time.

      http://www.giss.nasa.gov/research/briefs/gornitz_09/

      In the Ice age travel across the North Atlantic from Europe to the America would have not been too difficult. There was large Ice sheets to stop on and lots of seals and other creatures to eat. Just follow the Ice sheet coast with their fabulous skin frame curraghs.

  7. Ultra Cool

    The problem with race realism is that while it could lead to something good, one must keep in mind that 99.99% of people interested on that subject are radical racists. Robert himself is defying nature just by being interested in this and not being racist, he is something the laws of physics do not allow to exist and he could accidently destroy the universe anytime now for being a living impossibility.

    Talking about racial behavior and IQ tends to attract nazis like lightbulbs attract moths, any project that includes race realism is doomed to be overrun by wannabe Hitlers sooner or later, The less is said about non-physical racial differences, the better.

  8. Barack Thatcher

    Sounds nice.

  9. Barack Thatcher

    I agree that this whole race thing leads down a path of empowering low-IQ White monkeys.

    And the demographics we have now can’t be turned back in the immediacy unless we scrap our Western Civilization values, our constitution and more (deporting non-Whites).

    As Hillary said; What difference does it make?

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