Photo of Phil

This is a photo of Phil, commenter and sometimes guest author on the site. A Black commenter named Chinedu got mad at Phil and said he’s not Black. Instead he’s a White man pretending to be Black. Phil got mad and emailed me asking to post his photo to prove to Chinedu that he was Black. Of course, I am well aware that Phil is Black. Only a Black male would write talk about Blacks the way he does some of the time.

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188 responses to “Photo of Phil

  1. Another William Playfair Web

    I was quite floored to find out Phil is as young as he is.
    Obviously Phil has quite a bright future, and I hope that he keeps up his good research.

    • Can’t wait to read. Chinedu’s reaction. btw, thank you.

      • Chinedu

        Anybody can have someone hold up a card or even photoshop it in. But I will concede that that is you, as I don’t see you going through the trouble to set up such an elaborate ruse.

        I must commend you for your intellect and scholarship at such a young age. Aren’t you a bright shinning example that black people have the same potential for intelligence as anyone else? As a black man (kid?) why do you spend so much time and energy trying to demonstrate that black people are intellectually inferior? Most black people I know will in private conversations lament many of the problems endemic to the black community. Rather than blaming others, most black people take the same attitude as Bill Cosby. That is, self-improvement, self-reliance, self-determination and taking advantage of the abundant opportunities that are here. But that’s not what you do. I doubt there’s anyone reading your writings that wouldn’t identify you as a white supremacist.

        Maybe you need to see someone in the psychiatric profession about the pitiable self-hatred and uncle tomism seemingly gushing from every pore. It will, I think, damage you severely if you don’t take steps to ameliorate it.

        • Tulio

          I admit I haven’t consistently read Phil’s posts. I don’t read every article here and sometimes I take breaks from this blog for weeks at a time. Can someone tell me why they think Phil is a white supremacist? Maybe I missed something.

          Maybe Phil can succinctly explain his position on race relations, black intelligence and behavior, and how it pertains to society.

        • To Chinedu,

          https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/02/01/hbd-like-father-like-son-by-phil/#comment-261871

          Yep, that’s self hate alright. Here’s a very good example from my actual article.

          “Over time though, after hearing his friends complaining how the white man can make it but they can’t, he saw Whites and other Blacks making it, and he had in his mind “I’m going to learn what they got that I don’t”. Eventually, he narrowed it down to behavior and aspirations. Included were work ethic of course, maintaining yourself, and trying to understand more of the world than your immediate surroundings.”

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I am interested, though (and I do love this blog), about what attracted you to RL’s blog., specifically.

          Your dad seems more like a libertarian/economic rightist and I would assume he passed it on to you..but this a socialist blog.
          Was it that it is anti-Racist and you felt you would be accepted here?

          I hate to say, AmRen, and I would presume, the Alt-Rightosphere, really are pretty much tokenists when it comes to Blacks, they give them one opportunity to speak, some emotionally bash them still just for being Black, and then they vanish.

        • A few point Chinedu.
          1. You often use variation to make the average meaningless, however it doesn’t because average do indeed have room for variation. Two averages could have the same variation range but not the same ratios of number ranges.

          For example, (A) could have more in the 50s and (B) could have more in the 70s but both general have numbers from 1 to 100.

          You also use subraces as a reason to make race meaningless despite it “existing”, yet it still mattered to you what race the Egyptians were.

          BTW, racial differences and association accuracy http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/autopsy/human-remains-examination

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762614/

          You have actually given info in support of HBD, such as you head size chart and those hormone studies between races. Point being, biological difference exist.
          “Biology has everything to do with human behavior on an individual level. It does not, for example, mean that every white man likes to boink little boys just because the vast majority of pedophiles are white men. There is, however, something in the culture of white men that produces this kind of deviancy. Take away that something and the problem would be ameliorated. In other words, it’s not genetically coded.

          To say that all the people of this race or that race are this or that is what makes race realism or HBD an idiotic, cult-like pseudoscience. Whenever they’re presented with opposing evidence they simply answer by repeating the same discredited junk. They can never debate honestly and rationally because they have such a vested interest in their fantasies being real.”

          I agree with this morally that not all of the same race should be treated the same way with a stigma, that alone doesn’t negate different ratios of certain behaviors/ abilities.

          5.https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/05/31/the-limits-of-hereditarianism/#comment-261668

          This actually has some flaws based on my original statement. I said a white at 70, not a white at 100. Aside from that, I’ve discussed and basically answered any HBD argument you’ve made from there.

          The closest I’ve came off as a white supremacist was the comment in which I “misspoke” on race riots and similar actions. The problem with that were that these actions as I cited when talking to Jm8 were then suppressed BY WHITES and decreased.

          Issues like crime and economic achievement on the otherhand are very often associated with Blacks. And when I say this, I don’t mean that all Blacks are like this but I’ve compared on a relative scale when you use whole demographics (aside from selected immigrants) within countries like the U.S or compare nations generally.

          However, I’m NOT opposed to environmental factors in conjunction, interpretation of biological differences, etc. as long as they are civil and well argued.

        • To William,

          My Dad is sort of like that yet he really isn’t for two reasons
          1. He’s familiar with the association of White supremacists and adherence to the Right.
          2. He’s not all that into Poor bashing. Yeah he would be critical, but he doesn’t forget his roots. Thus he calls himself (by culture) “upper lower class”.

          I’ll admit that prior I was very much “socially” conservative in regards to black uplift. However what drew to Robert was that he accepted racial differences yet didn’t support racism as far as WN style. Thus I was grateful for meeting him and I shall always respect him for giving me that opportunity.

        • Chinedu

          Phil,

          It’s one thing to suggest variations in head shape and hormone levels (which themselves can be attributed to environment), it’s quite another to suggest a racial hierarchy in complex traits like intelligence. You talk about averages but how do you know what the real averages are? No entity or organization has ever done a comprehensive global intelligence test that was deemed culturally neutral and unbiased. So you are basing your ideas on what is essentially fake data. What’s more, you’ve shown a tendency to stick your head in the sand with respect to any piece of information that might challenge your worldview. Do you really think that the issue of racial hierarchies in intelligence is settled? Not only is it not settled, the overwhelming opinion of scholars, scientists and psychologists is that skin color (race if you will) plays no role in innate intelligence. You avoid all those opinions rather preferring the “work” of noted racists, segregationists and eugenicists, who are shunned and censured by their peers. Why is that? Honest answer please.

          When I talk about equal intelligence I’m talking about equal potential, not equal outcomes. Another Einstein could be sitting in a village in Africa somewhere. But he needs the right environment and the right motivation to reach that potential.

        • You talk about averages but how do you know what the real averages are? No entity or organization has ever done a comprehensive global intelligence test that was deemed culturally neutral and unbiased.

          Ravens is as culturally neutral as you can get. It doesn’t even have any language on it!

          Why is it that only Black people are affected adversely by these biased tests? There are all sorts of ethnicities all over the world for whom those tests would be just as biased towards as they are towards Africans. Yet those other groups just fine. Why is it that cultural bias always affects Blacks and only Blacks?

          Furthermore, if anything is settled, it’s that the tests are not biased against Blacks or anyone else for that matter.

          Do you really think that the issue of racial hierarchies in intelligence is settled? Not only is it not settled, the overwhelming opinion of scholars, scientists and psychologists is that skin color (race if you will) plays no role in innate intelligence.

          This is correct. Formally it is not settled that the intelligence differences are due to biology or environment. However, the whole field agrees that there are intelligence differences between races on average and that indeed there are racial hierarchies in intelligence on average. Everyone agrees with that, and everyone agrees that IQ tests indeed measure intelligence.

        • Chinedu

          Robert,

          Ravens is as culturally neutral as you can get. It doesn’t even have any language on it!

          So you’re telling me that if I grew up in an African village instead of the United States I would have the same exact score on Ravens? For that matter, if you grew up in a village in Pakistan, would you have the same exact score on Ravens?

          And which IQ studies are you using to form these opinions anyway? Lynn and Vanhanen? Total fraud. If you’re going to make the extraordinary claim that some races are less intelligent, why rely on garbage like that?

          Why is it that only Black people are affected adversely by these biased tests? There are all sorts of ethnicities all over the world for whom those tests would be just as biased towards as they are towards Africans. Yet those other groups just fine.

          In looking at the sources you’re using, black Americans score higher than about 2 billion Caucasians in the Middle East, North Africa and the Indian sub-continent. Some African groups/countries also score higher than these same Caucasians. So, obviously, those Caucasians are adversely affected too, wouldn’t you say?

          This is correct. Formally it is not settled that the intelligence differences are due to biology or environment. However, the whole field agrees that there are intelligence differences between races on average and that indeed there are racial hierarchies in intelligence on average. Everyone agrees with that, and everyone agrees that IQ tests indeed measure intelligence.

          They agree about IQ, not intelligence. No credible scholar or scientist talks about intelligence differences between races, they talk about IQ differences. The same IQ difference that are observed among European countries and even among ethnically homogeneous populations, separated only by religion, culture or socio-economic status.

          IQ is not a place holder for intelligence. Plenty of high IQ people are, in fact, stupid. They’re dull, they’re slow, they can’t think on their feet. Separated from their highly structured environments, they’re useless.

        • Chinedu

          And I would strongly dispute your assertion that “everyone agrees that IQ measures intelligence.” As far as I can tell the only people that agree with that are white supremacists and HBD cultists.

          No one really knows what the hell IQ measures, but it’s certainly not native intelligence. If it did it would be fixed for all eternity. It would never rise. Group differences would never converge. In one study just promising people a few dollars raised their scores by 10 points. When they were promised $20 their scores rose by a whopping 20 points. So IQ is even malleable among individuals with respect to their level of motivation.

          Read it for yourself, starting on the 4th paragraph:

          http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/04/what-does-iq-really-measure

        • Jason Y

          Racists try to sidetrack the issue by saying things like musical intellegence, (many blacks are great musicians) isn’t important because you cannot build a society with it.

          In other words, they only want engineers, doctors and the like, and even sort of dispise white people in the humanities, (also because it’s heavily liberal).

          Racists also go on and on about IQ attacking average IQ people, unless they happen to be some kind of Larry the Cable Guy person who might support the KKK on weekends. OK, possibly they will say Larry is really an engineering genius, but he’s such a humble good fella that he doesn’t brag and sticks to a Clark Kent Cable job. 😆

        • Jason Y

          Also can racists live up to thier ridiculously high standards of intelligence and beauty? No, and I bet many are average :Larry the Cable Guy people or worse. Perhaps they are also obese or skinny or possibly effeminate.

          I find this problem with Republicans also who take pride in being un-PC when obviously PC benefits them as they are incredibly misfit creatures.

        • Jason Y

          Commenter Homer Simpson and Ben Stiegmann, whom I suspect are non-WN trolls doing a thing to make the WN movement look evil and unappealing, would make comments which basically alienate the WN base by creating a situation where only the 100 percent perfect can be in the movement, when obviously the base is not 100 percent perfect.

          Tons of fat people have to exist in the WN movement as it would reflect the US population.

        • “Phil,

          “It’s one thing to suggest variations in head shape and hormone levels (which themselves can be attributed to environment), it’s quite another to suggest a racial hierarchy in complex traits like intelligence. You talk about averages but how do you know what the real averages are? No entity or organization has ever done a comprehensive global intelligence test that was deemed culturally neutral and unbiased. So you are basing your ideas on what is essentially fake data.”

          You have basically not proved it efficiently.

          “What’s more, you’ve shown a tendency to stick your head in the sand with respect to any piece of information that might challenge your worldview. Do you really think that the issue of racial hierarchies in intelligence is settled? Not only is it not settled, the overwhelming opinion of scholars, scientists and psychologists is that skin color (race if you will) plays no role in innate intelligence.”

          Actually no, I gave you a link on studies going into that yet you never managed to explain to me why the studies that found no differences would be superior over those that would find a difference. I never “stuck my head in the sand

          Well one that’s for political reasons as been already discussed and when showing the debate between the Likes of Flynn and Rushton, Flynn himself said how his model couldn’t explain modern differences in IQ. So basically at this point there is at least no solid position over

          “You avoid all those opinions rather preferring the “work” of noted racists, segregationists and eugenicists, who are shunned and censured by their peers. Why is that? Honest answer please.”

          Because Number one if you actually research Jensen for example he was a respected member of Psychology and has actually debunked Gould (race denier) on many claims scientifically.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Jensen#Jensen.27s_response_and_criticism

          You on the otherhand Chinedu I have pointed put many inconsistencies with you have clearly “stuck your head in the stand” by often relying on insults and buzzwords over science.

          As for why I “deny” the work of others because Flynn was the only “real” consistent one who tried to dispute race and intelligence on a genetic level. Nisbett (Richard) did to but he was debunked as well as Gould. Basically everyone else just repeats what they said.

          Also, overall, I actually DON”T always go with HBD’rs. If you go back to my article on African Women and Beauty I mention how Kanazawa findings were indeed flawed in the comments.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Jason- “Commenter Homer Simpson and Ben Stiegmann, whom I suspect are non-WN trolls doing a thing to make the WN movement look evil and unappealing, would make comments which basically alienate the WN base by creating a situation where only the 100 percent perfect can be in the movement, when obviously the base is not 100 percent perfect.
          Tons of fat people have to exist in the WN movement as it would reflect the US population.”

          They believe imperfect Whites, and they use the words “White trash”, are mixed with Black, since they tend to come from the American South.
          and of course the only reason Phil is smart, is not because of the Gaussian distribution of Black (or mostly Black) IQs, rather, that he is 15% White, and happened to get those genes for intelligence.

        • So you’re telling me that if I grew up in an African village instead of the United States I would have the same exact score on Ravens? For that matter, if you grew up in a village in Pakistan, would you have the same exact score on Ravens?

          Nope. The debate about cultural fairness of IQ tests is over. The environmentalists quit arguing that line quite a well back. All or almost all intelligence specialists agree that the tests are culture fair. All Raven’s is is pattern recognition. There are poor villages in North Korea, China, Mongolia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia on and on and on, all of these groups score far better than Black Africans. And they are just as isolated and poor in their villages as Black Africans are. Why are poor African villagers too dumb to recognize patterns but somehow equally poor villagers in Asia score dramatically better on pattern recognition.

          In looking at the sources you’re using, black Americans score higher than about 2 billion Caucasians in the Middle East, North Africa and the Indian sub-continent. Some African groups/countries also score higher than these same Caucasians. So, obviously, those Caucasians are adversely affected too, wouldn’t you say?

          Easy answer. The tests are not biased. No one’s being adversely affected because the tests are fair and the whole field believes they are fair now.

          Caucasians are not a monolithic entity. Those Caucasians in those parts of the world you mention score a lot lower than Caucasians in Europe.This is because Caucasians are a variable race with intelligence that varies among Caucasian groups.

          And which IQ studies are you using to form these opinions anyway? Lynn and Vanhanen? Total fraud. If you’re going to make the extraordinary claim that some races are less intelligent, why rely on garbage like that?

          Lynn and Vanhanen simply reviewed all existing studies and came up with averages. I have been over all of the African studies myself that they used. I do think their estimate of 67 IQ is low though. I got an average of 76 IQ when I averaged all the African scores together. Lynn and Vanhanen are not fraud. They have their own POV on these scores. You are welcome to go through the scores yourself and average them all together. Even their critics do not usually come up with much different numbers as Lynn and Vanhanen. Even 76 IQ is very low I might add.

          IQ correlates well with reaction time. IQ correlates very well with estimated IQ based on brain size via MRI. IQ correlates very well with the efficiency with which your brain uses glucose.

          And I would strongly dispute your assertion that “everyone agrees that IQ measures intelligence.” As far as I can tell the only people that agree with that are white supremacists and HBD cultists. No one really knows what the hell IQ measures, but it’s certainly not native intelligence.

          http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2011/04/what-does-iq-really-measure

          The popular media is far behind the intelligence profession. The debate about whether IQ tests measure intelligence is over. It ended maybe 10 years ago. Now both sides agree that IQ indeed measures intelligence or raw brain processing speed, pattern recognition and analytical thinking. There is hardly anyone left who says that IQ tests don’t measure intelligence or that the tests are not culture fair. You have not been keeping up with the debate in the journals. Everyone agrees that Blacks are less intelligent than Whites on average but the debate is all about whether the differences are due to environment or genetics.

          They agree about IQ, not intelligence. No credible scholar or scientist talks about intelligence differences between races, they talk about IQ differences.

          Usually intelligence professionals do not say that Blacks are less intelligent than Whites because that is not PC. What they do say is this;

          1. IQ tests measure intelligence.
          2. Blacks score lower than Whites on IQ

          So you can see that it follows from 1 and 2 that the field is indeed saying that Blacks are less intelligent than Whites.The whole debate is over whether the differences are due to genes or environment.

          The same IQ difference that are observed among European countries and even among ethnically homogeneous populations, separated only by religion, culture or socioeconomic status.

          What are you talking about? Yes poor Whites have lower intelligence than richer Whites. This is to be expected.

          I would like to see some European societies where there are significant intelligence differences based on culture or religion.

          IQ is not a place holder for intelligence. Plenty of high IQ people are, in fact, stupid. They’re dull, they’re slow, they can’t think on their feet. Separated from their highly structured environments, they’re useless.

          What is interesting is that I have not met a single such individual in my entire life. I have not met one single high IQ person who was dull, slow or stupid unless they were stoned out of their minds on some drug temporarily. Where are all these high IQ dummies? How come I never find them?

        • Gay State Girl

          Lindsay

          Do you have any statistics on the IQ scores of transracial adoptees?

        • Jason Y

          In response to William, poor whites and mixed with black in the south??

          Are you fucking kidding me 😆 That isn’t the case by a long shot. Also, I was on another forum and found out this cool thing.

          It isn’t the brain size as stated by WNs, but rather neural connections This think is hurt by smoking tobacco, doing drugs, all the stuff Iv’e said certain poor people do around kids.

          Yes, some mix of black and white in the south, but it’s mostly a certain group of women doing this. Obviously, most whites are not mixed with black or Latino.

        • Jason Y

          In response to Robert,’

          I see what your saying about IQ, and it’s generally true. However, the idea of neural connections as I was saying with William is left out, and that;s a big piece of the puzzle.

          Obviously, a lot of low IQ groups would have a high rate of smoking tobacco around kids and other negative habits as well as poor nutrition. This reduced neural connections, so groups which might even have a smaller brain cannot function to the best and even those with a larger brain cannot function at the best capacity.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I think, that to a certain extent, insistnence on “purity” is silly….
          White Appalachian peoples are some of the poorest in the country, and the standard of living is generally sh!tty with them around, even if, as the WNs say “crime is low” among them (at least relative to Blacks).

          As I’ve explained, the Blacker areas in the W.V. Panhandle;
          1 . have better schools
          2. Have higher median annual incomes
          If one were to look at this, almost certainly it would look as if Whites are the cause of problem- so that’s certainly interesting.

          One would NOT advise a White state UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

          Speaking of that, what does everyone of “Norms of reaction”, genes respond to environment differently, meaning there really could be no “general cognitive ability”
          There is some evidence of this, since IQ correlation between parents and children (when slightly mutated) decreases over time/by age.
          hmm…
          ?

        • Gay State Girl

          William

          True but northern New England, Canada’s Atlantic provinces are ~98% rural white and they don’t have the problems of West Virginia.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          GSG- I see.
          My point was just that people really do over-hype IQ, especially in the Alt-Reich sphere (they have low IQs, so can’t understand subtly, generally)
          Blacks have done NOTHING ever, apparently, because of their lower IQs.

          In reality it’s “Whites will thrive more often than Blacks”.

        • Alpha Unit

          West Virginia is different in some ways from northern New England and the Atlantic provinces, but some of the problems are the same. Northern New England and the provinces have their share of poverty, unemployment, people on public assistance, single mothering, etc. Rural Maine has had problems with meth abuse, as well.

        • Chinedu

          Robert,

          <

          blockquote>Nope. The debate about cultural fairness of IQ tests is over. The environmentalists quit arguing that line quite a well back

          So why does Google pull up thousands of hits that say the exact opposite of what you’re claiming? Try it. Google IQ cultural bias.

          All or almost all intelligence specialists agree that the tests are culture fair.

          Oh really? Name just a few intelligence specialists that agrees that the tests are culture fair. No pseudoscientists funded by the Pioneer Fund please.

          All Raven’s is is pattern recognition. There are poor villages in North Korea, China, Mongolia, Vietnam, Laos, Thailand, Philippines, Indonesia on and on and on, all of these groups score far better than Black Africans.

          So? How does that prove a genetic hierarchy in intelligence? And again, who gave these tests to black Africans? Who funded them? Who were the subjects? Aren’t there voluminous reviews of said tests, with some reviewers going as far as to call them fraudulent?

          Why are poor African villagers too dumb to recognize patterns but somehow equally poor villagers in Asia score dramatically better on pattern recognition.

          I want to know which tests you’re using to form that opinion. Again, if it’s Lynn, you’re using a fraudulent study to form an opinion. Use the legal standard. If you introduced Lynn’s “work” in a court of law as some sort of expert testimony you’d be laughed out of the building.

          Easy answer. The tests are not biased. No one’s being adversely affected because the tests are fair and the whole field believes they are fair now.

          Who are members of “the whole field?” Please give me some names and cite the articles they’ve published.

          Caucasians are not a monolithic entity. Those Caucasians in those parts of the world you mention score a lot lower than Caucasians in Europe.This is because Caucasians are a variable race with intelligence that varies among Caucasian groups.

          You say whites are smarter than blacks on a genetic level. Whites are Caucasians, no? If indeed whites are smarter than blacks we should expect all Caucasians to be smarter than all blacks. That they are not speaks to the environmental rather than genetic influence on IQ.

          Lynn and Vanhanen simply reviewed all existing studies and came up with averages.

          They are fraudulent. Again, introduce their “studies” in a court of law and get ridiculed.

          Go here:

          http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2011/08/devastating-criticism-of-richard-lynn.html

          IQ correlates well with reaction time.

          And yet allegedly low IQ black Americans can create elaborate rhymed rap verses extemporaneously. Your typical so-called high IQ white guy would have trouble doing that.

          IQ correlates very well with estimated IQ based on brain size via MRI,

          So if you have 100,000 black people with large brains and 100,000 white people with small brains we should expect the blacks to be smarter?

          IQ correlates very well with the efficiency with which your brain uses glucose.

          And this is determined by race? Do you have proof? No pseudoscience please.

          The popular media is far behind the intelligence profession. The debate about whether IQ tests measure intelligence is over.

          Please cite some of these “intelligence professionals.” In fact, increasingly the intelligence professionals are moving in the opposite direction. They’re talking about different types of intelligences which are informed by different types of cultural practices. They’re wondering whether IQ measures intelligence at all or whether it only measures adaptation to certain norms (which are learned).

          It ended maybe 10 years ago. Now both sides agree that IQ indeed measures intelligence or raw brain processing speed, pattern recognition and analytical thinking.

          Nope. Please cite some names. Again, no pseudoscientists.
          In fact the opposite is true. IQ tests will soon be relegated to the dust bin of history. Future generations will look back and laugh at us for relying on them.

          Go here:

          http://www.webmd.com/brain/news/20121218/iq-test-really-measure-intelligence

          Everyone agrees that Blacks are less intelligent than Whites on average but the debate is all about whether the differences are due to environment or genetics.

          Maybe on another planet, not this one. What most people agree on is that in the US, whites have a higher IQ average than blacks. But someone would have to be pretty dense to think that after 400 years of slavery, brutality and cultural ostracization, blacks would have the same IQ as whites. In fact adjusted for those factors, black IQ is actually higher than white IQ. Whites should be about 40 points ahead.

          Usually intelligence professionals do not say that Blacks are less intelligent than Whites because that is not PC.

          Oh, the old PC canard. White racists usually pull out the PC card when their talking points run into a brick wall. Tell you what, name a non-PC country (Russia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia, North Korea, Mongolia, etc) where “intelligence professionals” assert that blacks are less intelligent than whites? And based on the sources you’re using, Austria has a higher IQ than Finland. Is it also a PC conspiracy that keeps intelligence professionals from saying that Austrians are more intelligent than Finns?
          Actually, the reason so-called intelligence professionals don’t say one group is smarter than the other is because such a statement would be stupid. It has nothing to do with PC.

          1. IQ tests measure intelligence.
          2. Blacks score lower than Whites on IQ
          So you can see that it follows from 1 and 2 that the field is indeed saying that Blacks are less intelligent than Whites.The whole debate is over whether the differences are due to genes or environment.

          So whenever one group has a higher average than another, the group with the higher average is smarter? So Germany is smarter than France?

          What are you talking about? Yes poor Whites have lower intelligence than richer Whites. This is to be expected.

          So then environment is the prime controlling factor. Poverty is caused by environment, not genes.

          I would like to see some European societies where there are significant intelligence differences based on culture or religion

          .
          In Northern Ireland Protestants score 15 points higher than Catholics. Same genes, different culture, religion and socio-economics.

          By the way, now that we know that just from being promised a few bucks IQ can rise by as much as 20 points, I would suspect that if any random African village was promised $1000 each, given 6 months and then tested, they will likely obtain the highest IQ scores ever achieved by a group. Promise them $10,000 each and the entire village will average genius level IQ’s.

        • Ken

          If Richard lynn is a fraud, why does his data constantly get published in one of the most prestigious science journals in the world? Elsevier dominate the publishing market. your claims are pretty laughable Chinedu.

      • Gay State Girl

        Alpha

        I am aware of poverty, addiction, obesity, and domestic abuse that exists in Northern New England, but certainly not to the extent that exists in WV.

        • Alpha Unit

          Thanks, Gay State Girl. I guess how bad the problems are depends on who’s doing the assessments. As for Maine, a conservative group up there released a report a few years ago saying that Maine was one of the most welfare-dependent states in the country, beating out West Virginia on a number of measures.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I hate to be a douchebag about this- but Maine attracts more liberals, who are proven to be smarter, by HBDers/psychology today, educational statistics, and more,
          Maine is moderately liberal, West Virginians have been tricked into voting against their interests in recent years- voting generally for the GOP.

    • Tulio

      Yeah! I pictured Phil to be a man in his 50s. Crazy. Hey Phil, would you ever be interested in perhaps starting a mailing list or some online network of black race realists? I feel, very very lonely. Especially with all that’s going on in the news.

      • “Yeah! I pictured Phil to be a man in his 50s. Crazy. Hey Phil, would you ever be interested in perhaps starting a mailing list or some online network of black race realists? I feel, very very lonely. Especially with all that’s going on in the news.”

        That would be a nice idea, if you want to talk you can ask Robert for my e-mail.

        BTW, here’s text of a favorite of mind regarding African culture. This is a source where I base much of my ideas on. Hope you can make use of it as well.

        http://www.archive.org/stream/amongibosofniger00basd/amongibosofniger00basd_djvu.txt

      • Joe

        How many black race realists are on here?

        • Well counting You, myself, Tulio, Kareem, Jm8, that makes Five as far as I know.

          I haven’t read of Kareem in awhile but she might pop back up.

        • Tulio

          I feel like I need some sort of support group. As a black race realist, I’m tired of people assuming that I must have a Black Lives Matter™ view of the world lest I be an enemy of my race and of decency and justice itself. Once you realize the truth of HBD, the world just instantly starts to make complete sense. You understand why blacks were successively conquered and enslaved several times by other races. You realize why Africa is the poorest continent on earth while being the richest in resources. You realize why Germans recreated a mini-Germany in Namibia and have a first world lifestyle while the surrounding population is still living in squalor. You realize why we are collectively at the bottom of the totem pole in every majority non-black society we exist.

          I’ve been tuning in to much of the mainstream debate on police shootings and liberals are floored by the fact that it’s been proven that cops(and society in general)have implicit biases against black people and are more likely to see us as threatening. And this discussion is of course always entirely devoid of any context. It’s as if the fact that 3% of the population(young, black males) commits half the murders and armed robberies is immaterial with regards to the way we are perceived. And this is the discussion that is normative in mainstream media. Liberals can’t even wrap their mind around why people see black men as more threatening. I’m not comfortable about the fact that I am part of a group that is seen as violent and threatening. But I can’t deny that many of us behave in such a way that perpetuates that perception with both the crime rates and the music.

          The majority of my friends are far left. I only have one conservative friend. Not sure why I don’t know many moderates, but I guess that has to do with growing up in a place like L.A. that is very diverse and left-leaning and also having a lot of “progressive” ethnic minority friends who are social justice warriors, critical race theorists and subscribe to deep victimology. If you grow up in urban California, and especially so if you’re a minority, it’s really kind of hard to escape that. I also don’t think conservatives(whites) are too keen on making black friends as many of them actually are racists in some form.

          When I’m around my friends, it’s a nonstop feeling of cognitive dissonance. I love them like family, yet their political views I find repulsive(not the economic ones which I agree with, but rather the BLM/SJW stuff). I can never feel at ease. I can never fully be myself. I can’t let them know how I really feel. I must always be on guard and change the subject or coyly excuse myself from the conversation when a heated topic comes up. I sometimes wonder what it must be like to have a close group of friends who share your world view who you can be completely open with. I have a great time with them as long as we stay away from politics. The times I have treaded into politics it has been disastrous. One friend, we didn’t speak for a few years after a fallout from an extremely testy political discussion.

          I’d love to be able to connect, even online with other non-racist race realists. And especially black ones. I think we need to figure out a way to carve a new path forward that is based on reality and science over ideology. And one that does not assume egalitarianism in abilities while also affirming equality of humanity and equality in treatment under the law. One that pursues truth and deals with reality as it is in the face of a cold and uncaring universe where evolution has made winners and losers.

          Most white race-realists are our enemy. They may have stumbled across a truth, but I’m not about to rub elbows with the American Renaissance crowd and white HBD crowd. They are hostile toward us, plus they believe in libertarianism and other crackpot economics. I can never be friends with them.

          Most blacks are deep into victimology and don’t seem to respond well to facts and reasons which might challenge those notions.

          There is really nowhere for someone like me to go. I enjoy reading Jayman’s blog and this blog. But such individuals with this level of nuance are depressingly rare.

        • Joe

          @Tulio

          I have a somewhat different problem. My friends are mainly conservative, but they’re not the type to engage in these topics; the level of controversy spreads both ways. And not only a matter of engagement, but active research.

          I don’t have a problem with white race realists. Don’t see why I would, but I’m assuming you mean, in terms of securing a positive future for blacks. I would say, so long as you’re not of a particular race, as a race realist, you tend to skew impartial. We, as blacks, of course, seek to better our race – I for one am interested in the eugenic approach.

          I should also mention that I’m a conservative libertarian; interesting contrast we have, which isn’t unpredictable, considering I’m from the east coast.

          “I think we need to figure out a way to carve a new path forward that is based on reality and science over ideology.”

          That sentiment is what drove me to race realism. I wouldn’t mind being part of something like that.

        • Chinedu

          Not me. I stick to actual science. Race realism is pseudoscience. A 5 year old child could poke a million holes in all their ridiculous theories.

        • Chinedu

          Tulio,

          Race realism isn’t going to help black Americans. For one thing, the false ideology of race realism says that blacks are inherently inferior. You may argue that that isn’t true, but that’s the general consensus among race realists, who are actually racists trying to dress their bullshit up as science, usually failing miserably. All the things black Americans fought and died for are redounding to the benefit of other ethnic groups, many of whom hate blacks. Black Americans opened the way for non-whites in this country. Yet they end up working as security guards while other minorities because engineers and doctors.

          Education is the key. Africans do it here, why can’t traditional black Americans? Black Americans paved the way for us too. But when I go into my office building, they occupy all the menial, low paying jobs.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          You are correct about Blacks paving the way for more non-Whites to come here….without the Civil rights protests- the ’65 immigration act might not have happened otherwise.

          Blacks are actually, according to polls in the Esquire, more hated than Hispanics (like half of Whites express concern about (non-White) Hispanics coming over here- HALF- the uncuckening is absurd)), but a vast, vast majority are “outraged” (and even less than non-Whites) when an unarmed Black man is killed.

          Xenophobia is rising, but Blacks are whom Whites have grown up around, know, and love, so this whole Trumpenreich may benefit Blacks.

        • Tulio

          “Race realism isn’t going to help black Americans.”

          It probably isn’t. But sometimes the truth is bitter. And I feel I’d rather deal with stark reality than embrace the warm fuzziness of egalitarianism that is based on ideology. It’s like swallowing the red pill from the matrix. You learn that reality is sucks, but you’d rather know the depressing truth than live in a world of feel-good deception. It’s not unlike a religious man converting to atheism. It doesn’t feel good, but once you realize that religion is a construct created by man to control us and make people feel good about their inevitable death, it’s kind of hard to take it seriously again.

          “For one thing, the false ideology of race realism says that blacks are inherently inferior.”

          That’s quite a loaded term. I haven’t said anything about racial inferiority. Because someone is smarter than me doesn’t mean I am inferior. Phil is smarter than me, but I don’t think that makes me inferior on the whole as a human being just because he’s smarter. It just means he has a more powerful brain. But I may have strengths in other areas that he lacks. Differences in IQ are only one part of race realism. There are other things, such as real talk on crime and social behavior. These things ARE controllable, even if genes in part were responsible. The black family unit is decimated. At work I was having a discussion with a Middle Eastern woman from a strict Muslim family about what would happen if a woman got pregnant outside of marriage in her culture. She’d basically be disowned from her family as that would bring dishonor upon them. Then we talked about how many black women in our office have out of wedlock kids and there is no shame whatsoever about having a “baby daddy” rather than a husband. And no shame about going on welfare to find support for it. Now I think Muslim culture is too extreme for me, but in some ways I wish we could adopt more of that as we’ve gone too far in the opposite direction. So even if IQs are immutable, there is still much we can do to improve our race by improving behaviors. While I’m not a fan of Islam, I agree with what I’ve heard Robert say in the past, that Islam(and I’m talking real cultural Islam, not the Nation of Islam crap taught in US prison) seems to produce better black behavior.

          “You may argue that that isn’t true, but that’s the general consensus among race realists, who are actually racists trying to dress their bullshit up as science, usually failing miserably. ”

          They may be racist. But if they find something that’s true and it holds up under the scientific method, then who cares what their motivation is? I only care if it’s true. Anyone that has spent any time reading this topic in depth can’t deny that that we keep finding this same hierarchy over and over Ashkenazi Jews >Asian > Caucasian > Negroid > Australoid. No one in 100 years has been able to produce any test of cognitive ability that does not reinforce that same hierarchy. Whether it’s IQ tests, SAT scores, the military ASVAB. What finally converted me over to HBD was when I found out that children of high IQ black parents regress to a lower mean than the children of white parents. That right there was the final nail in the coffin. And keep in mind, I spent many years debating against HBD. You can look up my history on this site starting in 2008 or so. I did nothing but fight against Robert using many of the same arguments you use. I lost the debate and decided to just pursue truth wherever it leads me.

          “All the things black Americans fought and died for are redounding to the benefit of other ethnic groups, many of whom hate blacks. Black Americans opened the way for non-whites in this country. Yet they end up working as security guards while other minorities because engineers and doctors.”

          What you said right there is exactly what you’d expect if HBD were true. I remember looking at some photos of Haiti after the earthquake and saw that most of the small businesses there aren’t even run by blacks but by non-black immigrants. Indian immigrants in Zimbabwe were doing better than the native blacks, before Idi Amin expelled them. The Chinese are in the process of taking over Africa’s resources, not by force, but by deft. Even in our own black majority countries, we come out on bottom when we have to compete with other races. What does this tell you?

          “Education is the key. Africans do it here, why can’t traditional black Americans? Black Americans paved the way for us too. But when I go into my office building, they occupy all the menial, low paying jobs.”

          Many blacks go to college, but our graduation rates are lower than other races. This even more true for cognitive rigorous courses such as STEM. It’s interesting that we have no problem admitting that blacks have a gift for sports and music(and notice this seems to be universal no matter where blacks reside), yet we can’t admit that some other groups may have gifts in cognitive ability. Thus why Asians and whites and Jews especially dominate in fields that require a lot of brainpower.

        • To Tulio,

          Good, you shouldn’t feel “inferior” to me because I never thought I was to you. We had disagreements but I never viewed you in such a way.

        • Joe

          There are different categories that breed their own IQ score, averaged out to give you your overall IQ.

          With the potential of subcategories diverging between an overall IQ gap of two individuals, to claim superiority or inferiority would be illogical. Nature is that probabilistic, that you can’t ever, truly let your guard down.

        • Chinedu

          Tulio,

          What race realist theory holds up under the scientific method? Identify any race realist theory that you believe holds up under rigorous scientific examination. I will prove that it doesn’t and hopeless you will abandon this nonsense.

        • Tulio

          @Chinedu

          I’ve seen some of the back and forth between you and Robert on this topic. I think he has adequately answered all your questions. I don’t have the patience to keep rehashing what has already been stated. There are literally thousands of blog post over the last decade here that you can go through that answer all your questions.

        • Chinedu

          Tulio,

          No offense but some the things you’re writing is precisely why race realism is stupid.

          It probably isn’t. But sometimes the truth is bitter. And I feel I’d rather deal with stark reality than embrace the warm fuzziness of egalitarianism that is based on ideology. It’s like swallowing the red pill from the matrix. You learn that reality is sucks, but you’d rather know the depressing truth than live in a world of feel-good deception. It’s not unlike a religious man converting to atheism. It doesn’t feel good, but once you realize that religion is a construct created by man to control us and make people feel good about their inevitable death, it’s kind of hard to take it seriously again.,/blockquote>

          So you would deny opportunities to a super sharp kid like Phil, who is much smarter than the average white or Asian person, based on some idiotic theory of alleged averages? If I had internalized what you are saying about black people I would be a failure. But, fortunately, I came from a culture where we believe that no one is better than us. We don’t have an inferiority complex. We don’t think that whites or anyone else are smarter than us. We don’t believe there’s anything we can’t do or achieve.

          .The black family unit is decimated.

          Africans in America have stronger family units than whites. They have virtually no out of wedlock births, divorces are rare. Truancy is rare. Drug addiction is rare. They’re conservative. Their girls don’t sleep around. Their boys don’t join gangs. So, it’s really not about being black, is it?

          <

          blockquote>At work I was having a discussion with a Middle Eastern woman from a strict Muslim family about what would happen if a woman got pregnant outside of marriage in her culture. She’d basically be disowned from her family as that would bring dishonor upon them. Then we talked about how many black women in our office have out of wedlock kids and there is no shame whatsoever about having a “baby daddy” rather than a husband.

          <

          blockquote>

          We practice the same values. It would be unheard of for an African girl, here or back home, to get pregnant outside of marriage. We’re not Muslims, we’re Christian Catholics. So it’s not about race or religion, is it?

          And no shame about going on welfare to find support for it. Now I think Muslim culture is too extreme for me, but in some ways I wish we could adopt more of that as we’ve gone too far in the opposite direction. So even if IQs are immutable, there is still much we can do to improve our race by improving behaviors. While I’m not a fan of Islam, I agree with what I’ve heard Robert say in the past, that Islam(and I’m talking real cultural Islam, not the Nation of Islam crap taught in US prison) seems to produce better black behavior.

          Islam produces a certain type of behavior. I do business in the Middle East and have always been struck by how calm,serene, polite and hospitable Muslims are. On the other hand, there are aspects of their culture I can do without. You take the good with the bad.

          They may be racist. But if they find something that’s true and it holds up under the scientific method, then who cares what their motivation is? I only care if it’s true. Anyone that has spent any time reading this topic in depth can’t deny that that we keep finding this same hierarchy over and over Ashkenazi Jews >Asian > Caucasian > Negroid > Australoid.

          The idea of racial hierarchies is a fringe position which harkens back to the 19th century. You’re judged on individual merit. There are black people that are much smarter than everyone posting here. As long as that overlap exists, your hierarchies, whether real or fabricated, are meaningless. That’s the prime reason real scientists and society at large don’t take race realism or HBD seriously.

          No one in 100 years has been able to produce any test of cognitive ability that does not reinforce that same hierarchy. Whether it’s IQ tests, SAT scores, the military ASVAB. What finally converted me over to HBD was when I found out that children of high IQ black parents regress to a lower mean than the children of white parents. That right there was the final nail in the coffin.

          Once again, all those points are easily countered. There are countervailing examples and confounding variables. Again, this is why serious people don’t take it seriously, relegating the subject to fodder for keyboard warriors. Moreover, you’re citing social science stats and trying to dress it up as some sort of immutable scientific principle. As long as we’re dealing with society, culture and environment, change is inevitable. In 200 years people could be sitting around wondering why black Americans dominate all the scientific disciplines.

          What you said right there is exactly what you’d expect if HBD were true. I remember looking at some photos of Haiti after the earthquake and saw that most of the small businesses there aren’t even run by blacks but by non-black immigrants.

          Wrong. At least 95% of Haitian entrepreneurs are black.

          Indian immigrants in Zimbabwe were doing better than the native blacks, before Idi Amin expelled them.

          You mean Uganda. But so what? And now without all those Asians and without constant war and better governance, Uganda is doing quite well and is on a trajectory to economic prosperity.

          The Chinese are in the process of taking over Africa’s resources, not by force, but by deft.

          Wrong again. The Chinese actually own much more of America than it owns Africa. In fact it doesn’t own Africa at all. It pays for the commodities it takes and those resources remain in African hands. They can throw the Chinese out any time they want and often they do. Thousands of Chinese have been expelled from African countries for running all sorts of nefarious enterprises. And Africans are in China big time and have set up chocolate cities. They take advantage of Chinese slave labor to wake themselves wealthy. So who’s exploiting whom?

          Even in our own black majority countries, we come out on bottom when we have to compete with other races. What does this tell you?

          It tells me you’re delusional. Most of your info is taken verbatim from white supremacist websites so of course it’s mostly bullshit. You’re a self-hating black man and you can’t understand why the rest of us won’t join you in your misery.

          Many blacks go to college, but our graduation rates are lower than other races.

          First and second generation black African graduation rates are higher than other races.

          This even more true for cognitive rigorous courses such as STEM.

          First and second generation black Africans are disproportionately represented in STEM.

          It’s interesting that we have no problem admitting that blacks have a gift for sports and music(and notice this seems to be universal no matter where blacks reside), yet we can’t admit that some other groups may have gifts in cognitive ability. Thus why Asians and whites and Jews especially dominate in fields that require a lot of brainpower.

          Blacks aren’t better athletes or better musicians than any other race, nor are they less gifted in brainpower than any other race.

          You’ve presented the entire catalog of idiotic white supremacist and HBD talking points and slogans. Listen, a 5 year old could shoot all of this shit down. And this is why you embraced HBD? Arguments that are so easily refuted as to be comical?

        • Chinedu

          Let’s try this again:

          Tulio,

          No offense but some the things you’re writing is precisely why race realism is stupid.

          It probably isn’t. But sometimes the truth is bitter. And I feel I’d rather deal with stark reality than embrace the warm fuzziness of egalitarianism that is based on ideology. It’s like swallowing the red pill from the matrix. You learn that reality is sucks, but you’d rather know the depressing truth than live in a world of feel-good deception. It’s not unlike a religious man converting to atheism. It doesn’t feel good, but once you realize that religion is a construct created by man to control us and make people feel good about their inevitable death, it’s kind of hard to take it seriously again.,

          So you would deny opportunities to a super sharp kid like Phil, who is much smarter than the average white or Asian person, based on some idiotic theory of alleged averages? If I had internalized what you are saying about black people I would be a failure. But, fortunately, I came from a culture where we believe that no one is better than us. We don’t have an inferiority complex. We don’t think that whites or anyone else are smarter than us. We don’t believe there’s anything we can’t do or achieve.

          .

          The black family unit is decimated.

          Africans in America have stronger family units than whites. They have virtually no out of wedlock births, divorces are rare. Truancy is rare. Drug addiction is rare. They’re conservative. Their girls don’t sleep around. Their boys don’t join gangs. So, it’s really not about being black, is it?

          At work I was having a discussion with a Middle Eastern woman from a strict Muslim family about what would happen if a woman got pregnant outside of marriage in her culture. She’d basically be disowned from her family as that would bring dishonor upon them. Then we talked about how many black women in our office have out of wedlock kids and there is no shame whatsoever about having a “baby daddy” rather than a husband.

          We practice the same values. It would be unheard of for an African girl, here or back home, to get pregnant outside of marriage. We’re not Muslims, we’re Christian Catholics. So it’s not about race or religion, is it?

          And no shame about going on welfare to find support for it. Now I think Muslim culture is too extreme for me, but in some ways I wish we could adopt more of that as we’ve gone too far in the opposite direction. So even if IQs are immutable, there is still much we can do to improve our race by improving behaviors. While I’m not a fan of Islam, I agree with what I’ve heard Robert say in the past, that Islam(and I’m talking real cultural Islam, not the Nation of Islam crap taught in US prison) seems to produce better black behavior.

          Islam produces a certain type of behavior. I do business in the Middle East and have always been struck by how calm, serene, polite and hospitable Muslims are. On the other hand, there are aspects of their culture I can do without. You take the good with the bad.

          They may be racist. But if they find something that’s true and it holds up under the scientific method, then who cares what their motivation is? I only care if it’s true. Anyone that has spent any time reading this topic in depth can’t deny that that we keep finding this same hierarchy over and over Ashkenazi Jews >Asian > Caucasian > Negroid > Australoid.

          The idea of racial hierarchies is a fringe position which harkens back to the 19th century. You’re judged on individual merit. There are black people that are much smarter than everyone posting here. As long as that overlap exists, your hierarchies, whether real or fabricated, are meaningless. That’s the prime reason real scientists and society at large don’t take race realism or HBD seriously.

          No one in 100 years has been able to produce any test of cognitive ability that does not reinforce that same hierarchy. Whether it’s IQ tests, SAT scores, the military ASVAB. What finally converted me over to HBD was when I found out that children of high IQ black parents regress to a lower mean than the children of white parents. That right there was the final nail in the coffin.

          Once again, all those points are easily countered. There are countervailing examples and confounding variables. Again, this is why serious people don’t take it seriously, relegating the subject to fodder for keyboard warriors. Moreover, you’re citing social science stats and trying to dress it up as some sort of immutable scientific principle. As long as we’re dealing with society, culture and environment, change is inevitable. In 200 years people could be sitting around wondering why black Americans dominate all the scientific disciplines.

          What you said right there is exactly what you’d expect if HBD were true. I remember looking at some photos of Haiti after the earthquake and saw that most of the small businesses there aren’t even run by blacks but by non-black immigrants.

          Wrong. At least 95% of Haitian entrepreneurs are black.

          Indian immigrants in Zimbabwe were doing better than the native blacks, before Idi Amin expelled them.

          You mean Uganda. But so what? And now without all those Asians and without constant war and better governance, Uganda is doing quite well and is on a trajectory to economic prosperity.

          The Chinese are in the process of taking over Africa’s resources, not by force, but by deft.

          Wrong again. The Chinese actually own much more of America than it owns of Africa. In fact it doesn’t own Africa at all. It pays for the commodities it takes and those resources remain in African hands. They can throw the Chinese out any time they want and often they do. Thousands of Chinese have been expelled from African countries for running all sorts of nefarious enterprises. And Africans are in China big time and have set up chocolate cities. They take advantage of Chinese slave labor to wake themselves wealthy. So who’s exploiting whom?

          Even in our own black majority countries, we come out on bottom when we have to compete with other races. What does this tell you?

          It tells me you’re delusional. Most of your info is taken verbatim from white supremacist websites so of course it’s mostly bullshit. You’re a self-hating black man and you can’t understand why the rest of us won’t join you in your misery.

          Many blacks go to college, but our graduation rates are lower than other races.

          First and second generation black African graduation rates are higher than other races.

          This even more true for cognitive rigorous courses such as STEM.

          First and second generation black Africans are disproportionately represented in STEM.

          It’s interesting that we have no problem admitting that blacks have a gift for sports and music(and notice this seems to be universal no matter where blacks reside), yet we can’t admit that some other groups may have gifts in cognitive ability. Thus why Asians and whites and Jews especially dominate in fields that require a lot of brainpower.

          Blacks aren’t better athletes or better musicians than any other race, nor are they less gifted in brainpower than any other race. Besides, music often requires genius so I don’t know what you’re getting at there.

          You’ve presented the entire catalog of idiotic white supremacist and HBD talking points and slogans. Listen, a 5 year old could shoot all of this shit down. And this is why you embraced HBD? Arguments that are so easily refuted as to be comical?

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Tulio-
          “Most white race-realists are our enemy. They may have stumbled across a truth, but I’m not about to rub elbows with the American Renaissance crowd and white HBD crowd. They are hostile toward us, plus they believe in libertarianism and other crackpot economics. I can never be friends with them.”

          As I’ve shown on this blog, AmRenners are uneducated clowns. They’re the type that, (perhaps a source of their low intellects), can not even acknowledge that they are racist, hence an emotional reaction.
          Jared Taylor thinks Egyptians were European- hell, probably even Nordics. It’s a joke.

          and…ultimatley…
          HBDers/White Supremacists are disproportiantly low IQ;
          they are what they hate

          in recent events,
          Ruth Bader Ginsburg, seeing the trials and tribulations her family faced as the Jews were purged from Russia at the turn of the century, and growing up as a young girl during the holocaust,
          she could not live with herself if she did not speak out against it

          all hail the “Notorious RBG”;

          a longtime warrior for the left.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          ultimately…..
          we are all Jews, we are all Blacks.
          There is no reason in hatred.
          It can turn against us, or “our people” very quickly.
          I believe in the law of love

        • To Chinedu.

          All your comments on African Immigrants can be attributed to Brain Drain.
          http://www.universityworldnews.com/article.php?story=20131011121316706

          Because as for Premartial pregancy in Nigeria

          http://www.ea-journal.com/art2.1/Premarital-sexual-activities-in-an-urban-society-of-Southwest-Nigeria.pdf

          Furthermore, people from different economic status on average have higher IQs than the rest as Robert explained with Whites. This would also apply to Blacks two.

          This brings us to you’re comments on overlap and that causing heiarchies to be meaningless, that being false. A population’s average can tell it’s ability to economically adapted and to what capacity

          Uganda is technically improving HDI wise but has a long way to go.

          http://countryeconomy.com/hdi/uganda

          http://countryeconomy.com/hdi/south-korea

          Exactly where did you find that percentage for Haiti?

          “Once again, all those points are easily countered. There are countervailing examples and confounding variables. Again, this is why serious people don’t take it seriously, relegating the subject to fodder for keyboard warriors. Moreover, you’re citing social science stats and trying to dress it up as some sort of immutable scientific principle. As long as we’re dealing with society, culture and environment, change is inevitable. In 200 years people could be sitting around wondering why black Americans dominate all the scientific disciplines.”

          Yet you actually don’t counter them. Second it’s not simply that this has just a current trend, this has been a trend from generations not only in America but also Africa as well. Your view of the future is purely hypothetical and as well Flynn had admitted that his model of racial difference in IQ was insufficient.

          http://www.unz.com/isteve/rushton-jense-v-flynn-on-flynn-effect/

          “It tells me you’re delusional. Most of your info is taken verbatim from white supremacist websites so of course it’s mostly bullshit. You’re a self-hating black man and you can’t understand why the rest of us won’t join you in your misery.”

          So you insult him instead of actually proving him wrong.

          “Blacks aren’t better athletes or better musicians than any other race, nor are they less gifted in brainpower than any other race.” Well Richard Lynn explained how Black had higher Rhythm Quotients on average than Whites, though as they reach adulthood they level out.

          http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2006/02/world-of-difference-richard-lynn-maps.php

          Whites, on the other hand, achieved higher in Pitch distinguishing and Melody. Keep in mind that despite you probably denying this, you used “rapping” as an ability that Blacks do better in than whites to refute Reaction times.

          My initial link to you points out body differences between races on average that correlates with athletic awards. So technically blacks do have an advantage in some sports but it is worth noting that these are due to AVERAGES and not a rule.

          http://internetlooks.com/humandifferentiation.html

          “You’ve presented the entire catalog of idiotic white supremacist and HBD talking points and slogans. Listen, a 5 year old could shoot all of this shit down. And this is why you embraced HBD? Arguments that are so easily refuted as to be comical?”

          You barely refuted any of his points efficiently as I have shown.

        • Tulio

          Africans in America have stronger family units than whites. They have virtually no out of wedlock births, divorces are rare. Truancy is rare. Drug addiction is rare. They’re conservative. Their girls don’t sleep around. Their boys don’t join gangs. So, it’s really not about being black, is it?

          1) I was talking about out of wedlock births among black Americans. African immigrants are statistically insignificant group amongst black people living in America.

          2) I didn’t say that the out of wedlock birthrate is immutable. I believe it’s cultural. I even said that black Islamic societies don’t seem to have these problems for example.

          3) African immigrants are highly subject to selection bias and are not representative of the majority of their population. African women are clearly sleeping around or the HIV rate wouldn’t be as high as it is. If everyone married virgins, the HIV rate would be practically zero. Prostitution is rife across sub-saharan African. And it’s not like Africa is a difficult place for a tourist to get laid. Maybe the rural women adhering to strict tribal customs are not available, but do I believe this is the case in places like Lagos and Nairobi? I seriously doubt it based on the stories I’ve heard.

          The idea of racial hierarchies is a fringe position which harkens back to the 19th century.

          At one time heliocentrism was a fringe position which could get you burned at the stake. You’re using the appeal to popularity fallacy. I think HBD is a lot like heliocentrism in the beginning stages of acceptance.

          You’re judged on individual merit. There are black people that are much smarter than everyone posting here. As long as that overlap exists, your hierarchies, whether real or fabricated, are meaningless. That’s the prime reason real scientists and society at large don’t take race realism or HBD seriously.

          Nothing you said here contradicts HBD. There are representatives from all races along the entire spectrum of the bell curve from retarted to genius. The difference is their distribution. Some curves produce more geniuses. Some produce fewer. You are looking at the individual tree while I am looking at the forest. The differences aren’t meaningless. Intelligence is a major factor underlying human capital, the mose important resource on earth. Human capital is why a nation like Singapore with no resources can be one of the most prosperous societies on earth. It’s why countries like Germany and Japan can be bombed to ruins and within a few decades they’ve sprang back and you’d never know anything happened. While resources rich places like Nigeria are amongst the poorest on earth 56 years after independence. Not long ago I was watching footage of Africans floating on makeshift rafts trying to get to Italy and gain asylum. It was one of those HBD moments. I was thinking how profound it is that blacks are fleeing from the most resource rich continent on earth so that they can live amongst white people.

          In 200 years people could be sitting around wondering why black Americans dominate all the scientific disciplines.

          And what would possibly cause this? Black Americans aren’t facing malnutrition. They get a first world education. They aren’t eating lead paint chips. What will be the catylist for this explosion of black progress in science? And why isn’t it happening now? Why are Jews on a per capita basis winning the most Nobel prizes in sciences? Why are there few(are there any?) black Nobel prize winners in science? Jews faces intense oppression and the holocaust. How did German Jews manage to outperform Gentile Germans and outscore them on IQ tests? Hitler even banned IQ tests because Jews were outperforming gentiles.

          Wrong. At least 95% of Haitian entrepreneurs are black.</blockquote

          Whatever the figure is, Syrian immigrants to Haiti live better then the local Haitians. The same can be said of Chinese. There are whole luxurious neighborhoods of Chinese people in Africa that blacks aren't allowed to live. Caucasians and Asians can move to black majority countries and live better than the natives.

          Wrong again. The Chinese actually own much more of America than it owns Africa. In fact it doesn’t own Africa at all. It pays for the commodities it takes and those resources remain in African hands. They can throw the Chinese out any time they want and often they do. Thousands of Chinese have been expelled from African countries for running all sorts of nefarious enterprises. And Africans are in China big time and have set up chocolate cities. They take advantage of Chinese slave labor to wake themselves wealthy. So who’s exploiting whom?

          That has to be the most sugar-coated narrative I’ve ever heard on the Chinese push into Africa. If you are pro-black, I would think this would disturb you. The chinese push into Africa is a neoliberal’s dream. Massive fortunes are being made by Chinese investors. Corrupt African officials take bribes and kickbacks from the Chinese. The Chinese share none of their manufacturing know-how with the locals and live amongst their own communities. And the average people are still in poverty and seeing little if any of the gains from the extraction of their nation’s resources. It looks little different than the US in Latin America during the 20th century. And this is something you’re proud of as a black man?

          It tells me you’re delusional. Most of your info is taken verbatim from white supremacist websites so of course it’s mostly bullshit. You’re a self-hating black man and you can’t understand why the rest of us won’t join you in your misery.

          When all arguments fail, fall back on ad-hominems. Btw, there’s nothing “white supremacist” about HBD. You seem to keep forgetting that Jews are at the top of the heirarchy. And Asians above whites as well. You do know that white supremacists hate Jews right? White would a white supremacist be in favor of something that puts Jews at the top? I am not self-hating. I’m just indifferent. I don’t have any need for political correctness to protect my feelings. I really don’t hate anybody. What sense would it make to hate someone for things they had no choice in?

          First and second generation black Africans are disproportionately represented in STEM.

          And they are disproportionately skimmed off the talented 10th of their country. Same thing with India. Google 3rd world brain drain. If you were pro-black, you would be in favor of these folks returning to Africa with their skills and helping to build a future for their home continent. Why do you think it’s a good idea for the West to rob Africa of it’s most talented people through brain drain? Who is going to develop Africa if the smartest people leave?

          Blacks aren’t better athletes or better musicians than any other race, nor are they less gifted in brainpower than any other race.

          On a per capita basis, blacks absolutely dominate sports. And not just team sports. Look at the best runners. Look at the list of best boxers of all time, most of them are black, even though boxing as a sport originated in England. But genes has nothing to do with that, right?

        • Chinedu

          Tulio,

          I was talking about out of wedlock births among black Americans. African immigrants are statistically insignificant group amongst black people living in America.

          There are approximately 2 million foreign born Africans in the U.S. and perhaps the same number of American born Africans. They are not insignificant. There are Africans excelling in all facets of American society today, from Hollywood to science.

          African immigrants are highly subject to selection bias and are not representative of the majority of their population.

          There’s no evidence to support this. A dumb African is just as likely to immigrate as a smart one. Immigrants rely on family members to help them come to America. Those family members don’t care if they’re smart or dumb. I have personal experience in this area and you don’t. If only the smart people from my part of Africa were allowed to immigrate, many that are here would be shipped home and many in Africa would take their place.

          African women are clearly sleeping around or the HIV rate wouldn’t be as high as it is. If everyone married virgins, the HIV rate would be practically zero. Prostitution is rife across sub-saharan African.

          African moress have gotten looser tracking with exposure to western values. But we were talking about out of wedlock births. Once again, this is a cultural phenomenon and not something genetically encoded.

          At one time heliocentrism was a fringe position which could get you burned at the stake. You’re using the appeal to popularity fallacy. I think HBD is a lot like heliocentrism in the beginning stages of acceptance.

          Haha. That’s funny. HBD is actually more analogous to geocentrism. It wilts when considered against ALL the evidence and not just the evidence that is conveniently cherrypicked.

          Nothing you said here contradicts HBD. There are representatives from all races along the entire spectrum of the bell curve from retarted to genius. The difference is their distribution. Some curves produce more geniuses. Some produce fewer.

          Nature doesn’t work that way. Either an organism has something or it doesn’t. That’s why there isn’t a single chimpanzee that can fly an airplane or do algebra. If a lower percentage of a group are in the upper echelons of any demographic it’s idiotic to ascribe that uneven distribution to genetics (particularly with absolutely no proof) when there are more plausible explanations. We don’t find any great philosophers or builders or scientists among Northwestern Europeans at many historical epochs. If HBD weren’t racist and if HDB held to its ideals, it would say they lacked the “intelligence genes.” But a more thoughtful interpretation would say that those Northwestern Europeans had as much POTENTIAL as other societies, but due to environmental circumstances, cultural differences, influences or lack thereof, etc, the potential could not find expression.

          You are looking at the individual tree while I am looking at the forest. The differences aren’t meaningless. Intelligence is a major factor underlying human capital, the mose important resource on earth. Human capital is why a nation like Singapore with no resources can be one of the most prosperous societies on earth.

          And you keep citing intelligence, which all humans have, rather than looking at a set of fortuitous circumstances, geography, history, cultural practices, etc,. which would more plausible explain the success of Singapore.

          It’s why countries like Germany and Japan can be bombed to ruins and within a few decades they’ve sprang back and you’d never know anything happened.

          I guess the fact that both countries were rebuilt by the United States means they were more intelligent?

          While resources rich places like Nigeria are amongst the poorest on earth 56 years after independence.

          Nigeria is resource poor on a per capita basis. They have 28 times the population of Libya and produce about the same amount of oil. They have 20 times the population of Saudi Arabia and produce about 1/8 of the oil Saudi Arabia produces. Even if Nigerian oil money wasn’t being stolen by corrupt leaders, it still wouldn’t be enough to go around. Mind you, the leadership in all oil producing countries are kleptocrats, not just Nigerians.

          What HBD fails to understand is that the present state of nations or regions says nothing about the intelligence of people living there. Europe was a barbaric backwater for much of human history. Ireland completely collapsed over a potato fungus.

          And what would possibly cause this? Black Americans aren’t facing malnutrition. They get a first world education. They aren’t eating lead paint chips. What will be the catylist for this explosion of black progress in science?

          What was the catalyst for the explosion of European progress in science? Do you understand what a hellish and backwards shithole Middle Ages Europe was? So such explosions can happen absent any genetic influence. I must repeat: Culture, culture, culture.

          And why isn’t it happening now?

          Why should it happen now? Your individual lifetime is not the end all of human existence. Already there are African scientists in the west that have the potential to be future Nobel winners. Remember, the Nobel is a Northern European centered award. There aren’t any Greek winners either. There are few Chinese, Indian and Japanese winners as a percentage of their respective populations. Let’s go back to antiquity or the Middle Ages. How many Northern Europeans would win a Nobel-type award? The answer is zero.

          Whatever the figure is, Syrian immigrants to Haiti live better then the local Haitians. The same can be said of Chinese.

          And African immigrants to China live better than the local Chinese. They actually fly back and forth whereas the average Chinese doesn’t even have a passport and may never have been on a plane.

          Syrian immigrants to the United States live better than native Americans. So what?

          There are whole luxurious neighborhoods of Chinese people in Africa that blacks aren’t allowed to live.

          Prove it. And not all Chinese immigrants to Africa are wealthy or prosperous. Many of them are dirt poor, much like the gold rushers to California in the 19th century.

          Caucasians and Asians can move to black majority countries and live better than the natives.

          I depends on the Caucasians or Asians. Do you know how many rich Africans move to America or Europe and live vastly better than the locals?

          That has to be the most sugar-coated narrative I’ve ever heard on the Chinese push into Africa. If you are pro-black, I would think this would disturb you. The chinese push into Africa is a neoliberal’s dream. Massive fortunes are being made by Chinese investors.

          You have no evidence to support any of this.It’s just wishful thinking you’ve gleaned from white supremacist websites. White racists have convinced themselves that China is enslaving Africa and stripping it of its resources. The notion that China and Africa are doing mutually beneficial business is anathema to them. But that is the actual reality. You think that after their experience with European colonialism, Africans are going to let another foreign power walk all over them? Unlike the whites, the Chinese try to blend in. They interact with locals and marry local women. And again, there are thriving communities of Africans in China. I know Nigerians that have became multi-millionaires in China. They are constantly flying back and forth to China. I told you, we have no fear. We don’t think anyone is better than us. While black Americans might be skittish about travel around the world, we’re not. You’ll find us everywhere: Russia, India, Dubai, Indonesia, you name it.

          Btw, there’s nothing “white supremacist” about HBD.

          Haha. That’s funny. Everybody knows that HBD is a racist and perniciously anti-black movement. They throw in the bit about Jews and East Asians to try to throw people off the scent of their racist trail. But anybody with two brain cells to rub together isn’t going to be fooled.

          And they are disproportionately skimmed off the talented 10th of their country.

          You have no evidence to support this. Besides, the highest performing Africans are the children and grandchildren of African immigrants. They, by definition, do not qualify as a brain drain.

          Why do you think it’s a good idea for the West to rob Africa of it’s most talented people through brain drain? Who is going to develop Africa if the smartest people leave?

          Speaking as a Nigerian, the immigrants that come here are not professionals The get educated and gain their credentials in the United States. So the west isn’t robbing Nigeria of anything. If Nigerian immigrants consisted of doctors, engineers and scientists, that would qualify as a brain drain. But that’s not the typical profile of a Nigerian immigrant.

          On a per capita basis, blacks absolutely dominate sports.

          Nope. Whites actually dominate sports. There’s more to sport than football and basketball. And speaking of basketball, if blacks were genetically predisposed to be great basketball players, Africans would dominate. But African teams tend to suck and routinely get killed (by white teams) in international competition.

          And not just team sports. Look at the best runners.

          Americans and Jamaicans dominate sprints. There are obviously cultural and historical reasons for that otherwise it wouldn’t be just those two countries that dominate. Kenya dominates distance running. Again, if genes were the key there would be other black nations represented.

          Look at the list of best boxers of all time, most of them are black, even though boxing as a sport originated in England. But genes has nothing to do with that, right?

          Look at boxing now. Whites from Eastern Europe are at least as successful as blacks, if not more so. Why are white Americans not represented anymore? Well, few of them even take it up. There are much better ways for the average white guy to be successful without suffering concussive brain injuries. And increasingly, black Americans are shying away from boxing. Once again, it’s all about culture and environment. Keep repeating that to yourself,

        • to Chinedu

          “There are approximately 2 million foreign born Africans in the U.S. and perhaps the same number of American born Africans. They are not insignificant. There are Africans excelling in all facets of American society today, from Hollywood to science.”

          Out of the 40 million African Americans yes, they are few.

          “There’s no evidence to support this. A dumb African is just as likely to immigrate as a smart one. Immigrants rely on family members to help them come to America. Those family members don’t care if they’re smart or dumb. I have personal experience in this area and you don’t. If only the smart people from my part of Africa were allowed to immigrate, many that are here would be shipped home and many in Africa would take their place.”

          You use experience but here’s the problem, YOU’RE perceptions without evidence doesn’t qualify as the by and large reality of immigration. Second, even if selection wasn’t involved the immigrants that do leave are not a random sample of Africans because there IS a Brain drain with Africa and Nigeria isn’t an exception.

          http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7322365.stm

          “Nature doesn’t work that way. Either an organism has something or it doesn’t. ” Genetic variation in an population of organisms exists. If not, evolution wouldn’t work.

          “That’s why there isn’t a single chimpanzee that can fly an airplane or do algebra. If a lower percentage of a group are in the upper echelons of any demographic it’s idiotic to ascribe that uneven distribution to genetics (particularly with absolutely no proof) when there are more plausible explanations.”

          First of all that analogy with chimps is absurd because that’s assuming if the variation is comparable to humans and your example of intellectual abilities are limited. Even if chimps couldn’t do those things, that doesn’t mean they don’t vary by ability.

          “We don’t find any great philosophers or builders or scientists among Northwestern Europeans at many historical epochs. If HBD weren’t racist and if HDB held to its ideals, it would say they lacked the “intelligence genes.”

          First of all your example again doesn’t use enough examples of intellectual expression. Second HBd doesn’t say that environments can’t impede progress either literally or actually causing depravity in resource needs.

          “But a more thoughtful interpretation would say that those Northwestern Europeans had as much POTENTIAL as other societies, but due to environmental circumstances, cultural differences, influences or lack thereof, etc, the potential could not find expression.”

          That actually is acceptable in HBD, it’s just that you are using a strawman.

          “Nigeria is resource poor on a per capita basis. They have 28 times the population of Libya and produce about the same amount of oil. They have 20 times the population of Saudi Arabia and produce about 1/8 of the oil Saudi Arabia produces. Even if Nigerian oil money wasn’t being stolen by corrupt leaders, it still wouldn’t be enough to go around. Mind you, the leadership in all oil producing countries are kleptocrats, not just Nigerians.”

          What you are measuring is oil output, not the actual oil they have natural.

          “What HBD fails to understand is that the present state of nations or regions says nothing about the intelligence of people living there.” You haven’t successfully proved that

          “Europe was a barbaric backwater for much of human history. Ireland completely collapsed over a potato fungus.”

          You again ignore Rome and Greece. Second, differences in different time periods could indeed be due to genetic difference between them.

          Also, what would that make Africa actually? Don’t bother talking about empires because I already know about Mali, Songhai, Ghana, Ashanti, Benin, Nok, Etc, Djenne-Jeno.

          Problem? The last one was the only one that goes back to deep history comparable to ones in Eurasia, abouy 1000-2000 b.c. The majority of those kingdoms only goes back to the Middle Ages.

          Your comment on sports can be explain easily. Tulio misspoke and it rather that different races vary differently in atheletic abilities on average.

          This also varies by subgroup so it is possible that African Americans have something that African Players don’t and something Eastern Europeans could have as well.

          On top of that yes, interests could also make thing shift as far as racial demographics go. However, that alone doesn;t defeat HBD.

          BTW, proof of immigrant selection

          https://books.google.com/books?id=Whi0kQzE_NkC&pg=PA17&lpg=PA17&dq=african+immigrant+self+selection&source=bl&ots=Zxozz_nfwp&sig=PhqRPeyd8nIz7NH2tEzc-sFzJ9I&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjfz9CorvbNAhVU5WMKHYblAa4Q6AEIUzAH

        • Jm8

          Nok is also old, in addition to Djenne/Tichit, (it is the oldest of those listed). It goes back to ca. 1500-1000 bc.

        • Jm8

          Edit: It (Nok) is probaby roughly equal in age to the broader Tichitt cultural complex (related to Djenne), ie (the latter being) 1500-2000 bc (give or take).

        • To Jm8,

          True, but the thing is that Eurasian settlement of comparable development can be scene older as well.

          As well, in distinct levels of development through time compared to Africa. I’m not saying Africa succeed in nothing but relative to Europe or Asia it is less throughout a whole timeline.

        • To Chinedu,

          More on the empires, the most advance came from Islamic influence. And the thing about culture is that it too has a genetic component in regards to behavior.

          https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/03/04/environmental-hereditarianism/

          This, however, can be of advantage to your point on what helps or not but it is still tied to genes.

        • Jm8

          There were some in Eurasia that were equal to or more advanced than it—ie Nok and others like it (one might mention the Gajiganna culture too. Cultures on that general level were not rare at the time, or in times fairly soon after, in W. Africa, but those were notably the oldest and most advanced (or among such) in their region)—(at the time), but there were also some that were less advanced (or certain other contempory Africa cultures) and/or did not become so until much later. Of course was not the most advanced on earth (or any such thing)

          If by “throughout a whole timeline.”, you mean overall (combined, taken together), this is would likely true generally. I would not dispute this (I’m pretty sure). (clearly, especially given the very great acomplishment of certain parts of Eurasia in the last few centuries, and a few exceptioally accomplished/influential cultures before.)

          If you mean in every period, that is of course not accurate—but it may be pedantic/a bit nitpicking of me to point that out,—I guess that depends on the conversation— (but I’m guessing you probably meant something closer to the first anyway).

          (tangentially speaking, not to belabor the point too much):
          There are especially important developements in Africa that are early (and especially stand out by by global standards: for instance, the likely invention of iron metalurgy in W. Africa (the Igbo region ca. 2000 bc) 1000 years before its—only other—independant discoveries in two other places—China and the Near east; one of the few and oldest independant inventions of pottery other than that of Asia(both arround the mesolithic; in either Southern Mali or the Central Sudan, and somewhere between N. E. Russia and China).

          The Nsibidi script of S.E
          Nigeria is probably one of the few indepentant scripts developed, but it probably developed much later than the others and did not spread much beyond its region.

          Though Eurasia and Africa have been very diverse in this regard (ie levels of complexity) temporaly and geagraphically with great areas of contrast (and different areas/manifestations of sophistication in different places is relevant, as you might have mentioned) .

          The nature/relationship of these civilizational differences (respective/comparative statuses can vary very widely by period and region. Very broad comparisons of continents and macro-continents are not always the most informative/effective approach.

        • To Jm8,

          I meant the first method. And of course I don’t dispute the presence/signifigance of mentioned developments in Africa and I’m only trying to be Objective.

        • Jm8

          cont: the other (true) scripts (that we know of) being; Chinese, Cuneiform, Hieroglyghic, Indus valley, and Olmec. Independant proto-scrips (of symbols not used to express full syntactical language) are more common historically (than true scripts such as Nsibidi and those above listed): like, the wampum belt code of the iroquios, the Middewewin symbols of the Chippewa, or the Adinkra of the Ashanti.

          A few of the drum languages of W. and Central Africa—an interesting case—technically approached/evolved to the level (or conceptually parallel) of aural/sonic alphabets (particularly among the Akan/Ashanti), with discrete sounds/signals symbolizing the vowels and/or tones and (sometimes, as in Ashanti) also consonants of the the language (Of course these systems may still be a step below visual alphabets in efficiency in a way, since they still require some element of memorization— with no physical document. But are more advanced than oral transmission, since they operate/transmit much more systematically and objectively, thus likely more reliably.).

        • To Jm8,

          Yes, I have heard of the “Drum Languages” and I find that very interesting.

          I remember reading of a European’s amazement when witnessing such a device in use in Cameroon.

        • To Jm8,

          Can you link me to any other info that talks about the drum languages as well?

          I’ve also heard of it being used to communicate with merchants in the purchasing of products in the Sahel.

        • Tulio

          There are approximately 2 million foreign born Africans in the U.S. and perhaps the same number of American born Africans. They are not insignificant.

          Less than 5% of the black population and and half a percent of the overall population IS an insignificant number.

          There’s no evidence to support this. A dumb African is just as likely to immigrate as a smart one. Immigrants rely on family members to help them come to America. Those family members don’t care if they’re smart or dumb. I have personal experience in this area and you don’t. If only the smart people from my part of Africa were allowed to immigrate, many that are here would be shipped home and many in Africa would take their place.

          Phil has already provided you enough evidence of the braindrain effect. So I won’t bother with the redundancy. Families come from the same genetic background and often same class. And no, a dumb African is not as likely to make it here as a smart one. Because those with qualifications are given preference.

          African moress have gotten looser tracking with exposure to western values. But we were talking about out of wedlock births. Once again, this is a cultural phenomenon and not something genetically encoded.

          I didn’t say out of wedlock births are genetic.

          Haha. That’s funny. HBD is actually more analogous to geocentrism. It wilts when considered against ALL the evidence and not just the evidence that is conveniently cherrypicked.

          So you believe that 100% of the difference we see between all groups on earth is 100% environmental and genetics plays no role in the differences? Is that your position? I just want to clarify. European Jews have an average IQ of around 115, and Australian Aboriginals at around 62. You believe that 53 point difference is entirely environmental? Environmentalists acknowledge that there are differences in intelligence in the rest of the animal kingdom, even amongst different breeds of animals in the same species. But they think nature decided to make humans exempt from this phenomena because it might offend our sensibilities.

          Nature doesn’t work that way. Either an organism has something or it doesn’t. That’s why there isn’t a single chimpanzee that can fly an airplane or do algebra.

          Distribution my friend. Distribution. That some groups share the same range of an attribute doesn’t mean that it is equally distributed. What you say is absurd. Danes are the tallest group on earth. Your argument is like saying, because of the existance of a few tall Chinese people like Yao Ming, it’s a lie that genetic differences in height between groups exist. Well for every Chinese man over 6ft tall, there may be 50 Danes over 6ft tall.

          If HBD weren’t racist and if HDB held to its ideals, it would say they lacked the “intelligence genes.” But a more thoughtful interpretation would say that those Northwestern Europeans had as much POTENTIAL as other societies, but due to environmental circumstances, cultural differences, influences or lack thereof, etc, the potential could not find expression.

          This is true. But also doesn’t debunk HBD. Some groups doing poorly have high potential, but cultural or environmental reasons explain differences. Sometimes that isn’t the case and it really is genes. You have to take things on a case by case basis. For example, despite Russians having nearly the same IQ as their Western counterparts, they are faring much worse. You can see this in many post-communist societies. N. Korea is much worse off than S. Korea despite being gentically identical. So extra-genetic factors are important. But they aren’t the entire picture either. It’s somethings environment, it’s something genes, it’s often a mix of both. I think Africa has the potential to do better than it is now with time, but I have my doubts that it will do as well as Germany. Not without some sort of selective breeding.

          I guess the fact that both countries were rebuilt by the United States means they were more intelligent?

          They were already manufacturing powerhouses before the war. The potential was already there. You can give assistance and things will spring back quickly. Whereas you can pour endless financial aid into Afghanistan and it will disappear into a black hole with nothing to show for it.

          Nigeria is resource poor on a per capita basis. They have 28 times the population of Libya and produce about the same amount of oil. They have 20 times the population of Saudi Arabia and produce about 1/8 of the oil Saudi Arabia produces. Even if Nigerian oil money wasn’t being stolen by corrupt leaders, it still wouldn’t be enough to go around. Mind you, the leadership in all oil producing countries are kleptocrats, not just Nigerians.

          Oil isn’t the only resource. There’s natural gas, metals, lumber, etc.

          What was the catalyst for the explosion of European progress in science? Do you understand what a hellish and backwards shithole Middle Ages Europe was? So such explosions can happen absent any genetic influence. I must repeat: Culture, culture, culture.

          Even during the “shithole Middle Ages”, there were tremendous achievements. Notre Dame for example. You can wander around Europe and fine impressive architecture, art and monuments build during the Dark Ages.

          And African immigrants to China live better than the local Chinese. They actually fly back and forth whereas the average Chinese doesn’t even have a passport and may never have been on a plane.

          China is a terrible place for blacks to live. http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/7/africans-in-chinachinesemigrantsinafricachinaafricarelations.html

          Syrian immigrants to the United States live better than native Americans. So what?

          Proof?

          I depends on the Caucasians or Asians. Do you know how many rich Africans move to America or Europe and live vastly better than the locals?

          Very few such people exist. And most of them are probably part of their nation’s kleptocracy. How many Africans are moving to Europe or the Americans and founding recognizable companies that employ lots of people, such as an Elon Musk?

          You have no evidence to support any of this.It’s just wishful thinking you’ve gleaned from white supremacist websites. White racists have convinced themselves that China is enslaving Africa and stripping it of its resources. The notion that China and Africa are doing mutually beneficial business is anathema to them. But that is the actual reality.

          That’s a load of crap. You have Chinese companies abusing African workers in mines and bribing local officials to not crack down on them and you think this is mutually beneficial. Why do you believe in selling out your continent to foreigners?

          Haha. That’s funny. Everybody knows that HBD is a racist and perniciously anti-black movement. They throw in the bit about Jews and East Asians to try to throw people off the scent of their racist trail. But anybody with two brain cells to rub together isn’t going to be fooled.

          That’s like saying it’s sexist to point out that men are strong than women, or it’s racist to say blacks are taller than Asians. Facts can’t be racist.

          Nope. Whites actually dominate sports. There’s more to sport than football and basketball. And speaking of basketball, if blacks were genetically predisposed to be great basketball players, Africans would dominate. But African teams tend to suck and routinely get killed (by white teams) in international competition.

          That’s mainly due to poor management and funding. When those two issues are eliminated, blacks generally dominate the game.

          Look at boxing now. Whites from Eastern Europe are at least as successful as blacks, if not more so. Why are white Americans not represented anymore?

          But Slavic boxers do not fill up the list of the greatest OF ALL TIME. Most of the greatest looking over the history of the sport are black. As for white Americans, that is due to the popularity of MMA drawing more fighters into that sport over boxing. And even in MMA, the best pound for pound fighters are black, Anderson Silva in his prime and Jon Jones.

  2. Gay State Girl

    The face looks a little feminine though to be honest.

  3. Jason Y

    Sorry if this sounds like a bonehead comment, but why are so many young blacks gay? Like there is the one at McDonalds and another one working at a nearby Wendys.

    Also, all the white guy gays have black female friends. 😆

    • Another William Playfair Web

      I can explain the latter,
      you hear of “fag hag”, it’s true that in the U.S. Black women are looked upon as less attractive and will resort to being “fag hags”, it’s unfortunate.
      I would take it they are typically darker Black females?

      • Another William Playfair Web

        of course, they will, and that’s a reason, but it would lend itself to being so disproportionally.

      • Jason Y

        No, not really this one friend of a white gay guy was hot, and she was smart too, going to college.

        • Jason Y

          No Iv’e not seen that (as society judges black women’s beauty) that many of the black female friends of gay guys were unattractive.

    • Tulio

      Anecdotes like this are worthless. If you have a study that shows that a higher percentage of black men are gay than white men, please post it. There is likely no difference. What you may be seeing is that black gays may be more flamboyant than white gays thus more noticeable. Leading to the impression that there are more of them per capita. I notice there are quite a few white gays who do not even seem gay at all and don’t trigger any gaydar, and you wouldn’t know unless they told you.

      • I saw the stats, like a 1% percent difference.

      • Jason Y

        A lot of this is tongue in the cheek humor. Yeah, I can go on any dating website and see tons of white gay guys. It’s actually shocking, especially since my area is so Christian and conservative.

    • Erik Sieven

      maybe some black females just enjoy it to see when white males ridicule themselves?

  4. Jason Y

    Math and science professors seem to be the most un-PC and more agreeing to Phil’s thinking. Today one even commented in the context of a logistics problem that Connecticut recently allowed animal hunting and that was a good thing. There was over-population and he cautioned the class that we shouldn’t be “too compassionate” OK…. Creepy.. Yikes. :lol;

    Well, he had a point. But….. it’s kind of like when someone says something weird and they suspect they might be gay..

    He might be a white supremacist…. If (joke) (Similar ot Jeff Foxworthy, You might be a redneck if…)

    • Jason Y

      He definitely has that William Pierce look down pat. That gentle Mr. Rogers, I’m secretly a Nazi look.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      pumpkin person discusses this, and if I recall correctly, liberals are still overrepresented in all branches of academia (at Universities, at least), but less acutely over-represented in Engineering, and the Physical Sciences.

  5. Jason Y

    I’m always wondering if trolls go on blogs and Strormfront etc.. with the intention of destroying the movement by basically exxagerating the negative aspect of it in comments.

    For instance, I heard this really cruel attack on the disabled on Stormfront once. One of them claimed other races simply let thier retarded people die, and then did a mocking paragraph with a baby who ingests poison cause he’s too dumb to know better.

    So basically whenever you some really mean comments, though true racist do make many of them, then possibly it could be some kind of troll trying to sabatoge the movement by making it look, from a moral POV, ugly and unappealing.

    However, The Daily Strormer and the like does a good job at being morally ugly even without sabatoging trolls coming in. One example was the article on mixed raced kids bascially calling them garbage people.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      well, according to web analytics Alexa, stormfronters are about as Educated as average (see a recent comment on pp’s), which if they are saying profoundly retarded stuff, that may be true, but I think you have to realize under that scenario- the average IQ is 100, so their are going to be some dolts on there.

      But….
      4% come from India.

      I believe the standard set (I read somewhere) for them was 15/16+ non-Jewish European in ancestry, and have to denounce any (if any ) non-Euro ancestry…
      so them coming from India, is quite fishy..

    • Stary Wylk

      I’m sure they do, just as many of the disruptive “Bernie Bros” at Trump rallies were really Hillaryists or sent by them.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        Trump supporters are rowdy, and have violently removed protestors- even peaceful protestors.

        I.E. “I’ll pay for legal bills, beat the crap out of them”.

        Indeed, protestors purposely tried to provoke them.

        That being said, Liberals have acted that way, too, throwing eggs, that’s despicable, but smarter (less direct contact, you can’t be identified, etc.)

      • Another William Playfair Web

        Hillary speaks at a 7th grade level, Bernie at 10th, Trump at a 4th.

        That could be a general indicator of their supporter’s intellects.

        • Gay State Girl

          Bernie’s social media accounts do not communicate at a very sophisticated level though.

  6. Joe

    Whoa. You look young. How old are you, Phil?

  7. TJF

    To Chinedu:

    In Northern Ireland Protestants score 15 points higher than Catholics. Same genes, different culture, religion and socio-economics.

    False – that IQ difference (it wasn’t 15) came from a misinterpretation of a study by Richard Lynn of a select group of long term unemployed people in Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland Catholics routinely academically outperform much of the UK on GSCE exams.

    http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/ni/educ.htm
    http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/education/league-tables-northern-ireland-schools-at-alevel-34679570.html

    • Chinedu

      TJF,

      Either Lynn is a worthy authority or he’s not. I’m just using the same sources white supremacists and HBDers use. You’ll find that Lynn’s “work” is replete with such shoddy, unprofessional, even fraudulent data. But people like Robert insist that he’s a credible researcher who is dispassionately compiling data.

      • TJF

        To Chinedu:

        Either Lynn is a worthy authority or he’s not. I’m just using the same sources white supremacists and HBDers use. You’ll find that Lynn’s “work” is replete with such shoddy, unprofessional, even fraudulent data.

        I don’t know if Lynn is fraudulent or not – what I do know is that the study cited does not take a random sampling of Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland so it’s intent was never to measure the difference between broad based groups. Hence, anyone citing the study and coming up with that figure and applying to either group has either not read the study, read it carefully, or is misrepresenting the information.

        Stephen Jay Gould did the same thing in the Mismeasure of Man by declaring that IQ tests in the 1920s had shown that Jewish immigrants had lower than average IQs whereas the man who had administered the tests, Henry H. Goddard, clearly stated the subjects were selected because they exhibited signs of lower than normal intelligence (eg not randomly selected). In reality Goddard was of the opinion that Jews, on average, had higher IQs than gentile whites.

  8. Gay State Girl

    William

    I don’t think the WN movement would be quite as rabid if not confined to the Internet. The Internet exists to capture and archive douchebaggery at its finest.

    I don’t like the manosphere either but understand and appreciate their frustrations although their assessments are not always accurate. They’d probably subdue themselves if they could hold their meetings in public.

    Other then that I am happy to let them behave like little boys and WNs and let their respective movements remain stagnant.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      GSG- I believe you are correct.
      Trump is running with these things in mind for President- so obviously it’s not censored anymore.
      Then….
      Why don’t these people broadcast themselves/ you they are at events (whether violent or non-violent)?
      They’re embarrassed. They don’t want their friends and/or family knowing what they are/think.

      More low-intellect AmRenners claim that they do, but higher-intellected stormfronters don’t, I suppose they have more control over the emotions.
      I would like to see some actual IQ results from the Alt-Reich, I suspect many of them are spatially gifted computer nerds, but are verbally retarded (their trolling is very rarely witty, or satirical).
      It would put me at ease, I’m petty like that🙂

      Or it could just be they are too stupid to either think of that, or are so verbally retarded they think it will be worthless.

      I used to be shrilly pro-Asian on here and pumpkinperson.com, but considering the rise of the Alt-Reich, I am learning verbal IQ/thought procces do matter…

  9. TJF

    To Tulio, Phil, and Robert:

    Tulio said:

    Btw, I’d be cautious about putting your photo out there. It could come back to bite you years down the line.

    Agree with this 1000% – Phil has made his point. I would suggest that the photo should now be removed.

    The internet has a long memory and such things can be used to bite your backside – probably not now but in 5 to 10 years – especially in Academia or certain government positions. Select quotes could be taken out of context to paint you as an Uncle Tom or worse as a willing tool of white racists.

    • Gay State Girl

      I never put any part of my name or photo on the blogosphere, nevertheless I know the powers that be have a way of keeping tabs on us.

    • Yeah, I was feeling cautious about this as well. Typically it’s actual social media networks where this type of shit bites you in the ass. This blog seems to attract 50% pissed of Hindu-centrists, 20% White nationalists, 10% pissed off blacks, 10% SJWs, and a 10% percent “other” category but I still wouldn’t take the chance of this biting me later.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        This blog has a wide range of opinions and people with varying reasons for their opinions.

        Hell, we’ve got a pro-White Black (Phil) and a Pro-Black White (Jason).
        We’ve got hardcare Alt-Reichers with Jewish names (Sam) and more….

        • Jason Y

          I’m not as pro-black as it seems, and Phil has limits on his pro-white sympathy, but you have to go pretty far out there though. I’m probably more pro-white than Phil is pro-black.

        • Jason Y

          Most of Sam’s views are pretty reasonable as compared to Homer Simpson or Ben Steigmann or santoculto. I can understand how Sam came to be and have some sympathy for his views, even though in the end I disagree. However, not all WNs are the same. Some like Sam are more humble and appeal to ordinary people rather than nose up in the air elitists.

        • Again Jason, for the 101 time, how am I anti-Black simply by believing in HBD? (if Chinedu comments I’ll just go ahead and say that I’m not even going to consider your opinion because I’ve responded to you countless times and I’ve recently read Tulio’s comment, a nice one at that, as to you’re latest one on Race realism).

          Did I support extermination or sterilization? Did I outright state an opinion of blacks from a personal note purely?

          Jason, admit it, the only reason you say so is because I adhere to HBD. But here’s the thing, it’s less about you’re view and more about you’re arguing style. We went over this before.

          https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/12/18/the-genesis-of-black-minority-problems-in-a-non-black-society/#comment-247992

          Note how commenter “Johnny” gained my respect on his first try when this was trial number 50 for you at this point.

        • Tulio

          @Phil, not to be a grammar Nazi, but a smart guy like you needs to use “you’re” and “your” appropriately.

      • 10% Other here. You need more categories.

        • Yeah, I figured so. These were just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

          It was mostly a joke anyways.🙂

    • Jason Y

      Yeah jackasses on Facebook always amaze me. They blab thier mouth saying the most on the edge stuff, yet they don’t seem to get death threats. But do they? Note your full name is visible on social media, often the picture too.

  10. Jason Y

    OK so I’m using more sources than usual at least sometimes. OK, is Chindeau giving any sources? This is what Phil wants.

    • In this case, actual sources that I’m Anti-black.

    • Jason Y

      Phil may not be anti-black. But honestly, considering the stuff he believes in, what other conclusion can you draw other than the one saying, “Extermination and/or deportation is the only answer for blacks.”?

      • “Phil may not be anti-black. But honestly, considering the stuff he believes in, what other conclusion can you draw other than the one saying, “Extermination and/or deportation is the only answer for blacks.”?”

        That still isn’t Anti-black and you know it. Second what stuff in particular? Most of what I write on this blog in general isn’t actually about blacks, it’s explaining HBD to you.

        So no, that is merely you’re perception.

  11. TJF

    To Phil:

    Again Jason, for the 101 time, how am I anti-Black simply by believing in HBD?

    W.E.B Dubois – the grandfather of much of the current race theory in the US, was a proponent of eugenics and it’s pretty clear Dubois was not a white supremacist nor a tool for whites. Whether one accepts eugenics as valid notion or not it is clearly has some overlap with HBD.

    “Also in the 1910s the American eugenics movement was in its infancy, and many leading eugenicists were openly racist, defining Blacks as “a lower race”. Du Bois opposed this view as an unscientific aberration, but still maintained the basic principle of eugenics: That different persons have different inborn characteristics that make them more or less suited for specific kinds of employment, and that by encouraging the most talented members of all races to procreate would better the “stocks” of humanity.”

    “Dr. Shantella Y. Sherman illustrates the tragic history of how some of the early 20th Century Black Mis-leadership class fully supported eugenic theory using racial sterilization couched in language supporting birth control to limit the ability of poor Black women to have children. A veritable who’s who of early 20th century Black history from W.E.B. Dubois, Mary McCloud Bethune, Charles Drew and more were supporters of this widely supported Black Eugenics movement to basically rid America of the Black poor.”

    http://www.blackagendareport.com/black_eugenics_sterilization_black_poor

    • Still, someone would still label them as “anti-black”, despite their praise amongst modern Aframs and/or they could be like Chinedu and claim that they too were “misguided”.

    • Still, I see you’re point, there are those held as pro-black that leaned closer to Anti-black than me.

  12. Another William Playfair Web

    If you accept P=G+E, it would mean, that although Eugenics would perhaps help for generations, and still make a small difference in the end, our lack of knowledge of how environment works (how to manipulate it)- would lead consistently to regression to the racial/archaic mean and be pretty pointless.

  13. TJF

    To Another William Playfair Web:

    would lead consistently to regression to the racial/archaic mean and be pretty pointless..

    I suspect that there is some regression but not all the way to the mean…especially if multiple generations of people through assorted mating marry someone of their (higher) intellectual peer. Two generations of accomplished people who produce two sons that run off with the maid or hot secretary with giant mammaries sort of throws a wrench in things.

    Religion wherein the parents or group are heavily involved seeking quality mates for their offspring tends to have a positive intellectual effect. (Brahmans in India – Jews in Europe)

    • Another William Playfair Web

      no, of course not all the way, but virtually all the way.

      I.E. say, they make it so the average Black who breeds must have an IQ of 100, where AA’s average is 85 heritability would make it so there kids (say it’s 0.5), 92.5, then 88.75, so after two generations, it’s virtually pointless.

      • Tulio

        Only problem with that is how do people keep getting smarter? Humans used to drag their knuckles on the ground and communicate with grunts and groans. Over the short term, what you are saying may be the case, but over the long-term, I think all races are evolving and becoming smarter.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Tulio-
          well, the racial mean seems to increase.

          It must be that such is done through immediate mutations (as a response to environment) rather than selective breeding.

          If P=G+E is true, my statement is true, however, it appears that heritability is a lot higher than Rushton’s estimate of 0.5 (Highly Australoid children of East Indian immigrants- don’t have their IQs crash too much- right? I suspect Heritability is quite high).

        • Another William Playfair Web

          actually, though P=G+E “additive heredity” actually is not what the preponderance of the evidence presents- IQ heritability from parents to children (slightly different genes because of mutations)- decreases over time, meaning genes determine whether an environment is good or bad.

          HBDers do jump the gun. We’ve just scratched the surface of this thing and they pretend like everything is fact. I get that they were bullied by a Black in grade school but they need to calm the f*** down🙂

        • EPGAH

          Wouldn’t cleaning up the genepool lead to an improvement in environment? It would make things less ghetto at the very least.

          Moreover, people MAKE the environment nowadays. Good people make good culture, make a good country, regardless of the continent. Bad people turn a good country into Hell. If we just stopped the White->Nonwhite Decline, wouldn’t that automatically fix the environment?

      • TJF

        To Another William Playfair Web:

        no, of course not all the way, but virtually all the way.
        I.E. say, they make it so the average Black who breeds must have an IQ of 100, where AA’s average is 85 heritability would make it so there kids (say it’s 0.5), 92.5, then 88.75, so after two generations, it’s virtually pointless.

        Sorry I wasn’t clear – I understand the hypothesis of regression to the mean as it applies to human IQ but I don’t see how it can be easily confirmed. Are their multi-generational records of families with high IQs in sufficient samples along with their children, grandchildren, and great grandchildren….? To the best of my knowledge the answer is no, I don’t think IQ testing became widespread until around WWII and wasn’t applied to both sexes until the 1960s. (I know there was some testing of WWI recruits and some immigrants in the 20s but it was still a developing field…)

        In my example of Jews in Europe and Brahmans in India, these two groups that have intermarried for generations that outperform the populations that were derived from, this seems to run counter to the hypothesis of regression.

        As for my example of the two successful generations followed by the third reproducing with someone of lower cognitive skills is that a decline in IQ over generations may not be caused by regression to the mean – but by simply marrying out (down) of one’s cognitive group.

      • William

        too little is known about environment, EPGAH.

        Environment in the biological sense and culture are really not even remotely synonymous.

        There is even a school of thought that Blacks do better in squalor (r-selected environments).

  14. Kareem

    Whoever said that being a black believer in HBD was a lonely place to be wasn’t kidding. Really changes the way you see the world.

    It really took me lots of thinking, reading, and observing to get to different stages in the evolution of how to regard this subject.

    Never bought into the victim hood culture that is fostered among most blacks and was always critical and brutally aware of the problems of blacks, but still believed that we as whole had equal capabilities as whites and the root cause of black dysfunction was culture.

    I grew up pretty poor and attended mostly inner city majority black schools. There were usually fights every other day and the kids were too loud and rowdy for the teachers to teach half of the time. The schools gave tons of standardized tests and at least half the kids didn’t score at grade level. I barely studied or even bothered to show up for school half the time, but still scored at the top or near the top on every test. Eventually I just showed up to classes just to take the tests and pass them, until I stopped giving a fuck and dropped out completely.

    Realized how dumb it was to dropout of high school, so I went to take the G.E.D. Chatted with some of the people before I took the exam. Can’t help but notice the racial makeup. Asians are nearly nonexistent. There’s a handful of whites and the majority are black and or Hispanic, at least half of whom have already failed the test at some point and are retaking it.

    Passed the G.E.D and ran to the nearest military recruitment office to join. Scored 78 out of 99 on the ASVAB. Pretty decent score. Once again can’t help but notice that hispanics and especially blacks have the most trouble passing it. Did some research online about the test scores and nearly 40 percent of black students and 30 percent of Hispanics don’t pass, compared with only 16 percent of whites. The average score for blacks who pass is 38 and for Hispanics is 44, compared to whites’ average score of 55 and asians average score of 60.

    Starting to see all these patterns everywhere it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to connect dots and put two and two together. I grew up in a pretty shitty environment with a single mother, shitty inner city school, but could till do well on tests and blend in well in society. My belief that culture and circumstances were the root cause of black dysfunction was eroding steadily for years. The final nail in the coffin was reading definitive studies showing that even when adjusting for education level, income level, and family structure, are all taken into account, other races still score better than blacks.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      It must be difficult. I can not even imagine.

    • Jason Y

      So? It still seems like the evironment is the main cause.

      For instance, if some kid is raised in an environment of heavy second hand chain smoking, then that wasn’t his fault, even if HBD caused his parent’s smoking habit.

      • “So? It still seems like the evironment is the main cause.

        For instance, if some kid is raised in an environment of heavy second hand chain smoking, then that wasn’t his fault, even if HBD caused his parent’s smoking habit.”

        Despite the mass data we have that dives deeper than your speculation.

      • Second, that explanation you gave was extremely limited. Of course you could just simply be referring to environmental stressors in general but here’s the thing.

        If the parent had it, the child likely has it as well. Second, regardless of what the child did, whether it was academic decisions or decisions in general I don’t see how that doesn’t make them “their fault”. I mean yes, the environment could be explanation but not excuses. I’m not doubting how much the environment could interfere with that but I’m talking more from the side of responsibility.

        Lastly it would be tough to support a root culture explanation when this persists so well through various controls as Kareem said.

      • Tulio

        Transracial adoption studies though. And regression to a lower mean. And kids of upper middle class black families scoring lower on the SAT than poor whites. I think the evidence is overwhelming to the point that I’m surprised that it’s been so effectively suppressed in the mainstream media for this long.

        • Chinedu

          Tulio,

          Transracial adoption studies have been debunked. You must be avoiding all the countervailing evidence willfully. This is why HBD is a joke. You only look at the evidence that affirms your convictions while running like hell from evidence that doesn’t. Assuming you’re trying to promote HBD, people like you are its worst advocates.

          Poor whites are still white. And blacks from upper-middle class environments are not immune from all the debilitating effects of being black in America. I know this from personal experience. Some can rise above it, some can’t.

          Here’s a natural experiment that will clear this up for you if, indeed, you’re looking for the truth. Compare the test scores of upper middle class Nigerian Americans (born in the USA) to those of poor whites. If HBD is correct we should see the same pattern. If HBD is incorrect we won’t.

        • Again, you don’t even try to pull up a link to prove that they are debunked or explain how.

          Second, no, that comparison Doesn’t dispute HBD, only your strawman. HBD ranking of IQ by race is done by AVERAGES that are compared BY AND LARGE. in other words, not controlling for Socioeconomics.

          In otherwords, using immigrants who again were selected versus a poor population that has less phenotypical potential in both genetics and environment doesn’t defeat the hierarchy.

          If you knew anything about HBD you would know that simply being white/Caucasian doesn’t automatically make you smarter than a black. It’s has to do with genetic traits based on IQ and where on the bell curve on would lie.

          On AVERGAE, whites have are higher due to their distribution than balcks, But basically the range/variation between the two races are similar.

          For example, in sample (A) you have 1,2,3,3,4,7,10 the average would be about 4.3. In sample (B) you have 1,1,2,3,3,6,10 the average would be about 3.7. (A) is higher than (B) but both have a similar range but a different distribution.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          speaking of averages and distributions….
          it’s sort of ironic that Whites (and Asians) in the HBD-o-sphere are more tribalistic and emotional (many come to with a vendetta) and hence have lower IQs than their racial average, but Blacks and “Hispanics” are anti-tribal and are overcoming emotion by believing in HBD, and are hence smarter.

          I’d actually venture to say that Black HBDers are smarter than White ones.

    • Tulio

      Thanks for your reply. I want to hear more black race realist coming out stories like this. It’s intriguing. Many blacks are closeted race realists. They will never come out and consciously admit these things but sometimes slip up. I remember Jesse Jackson once said that when he hears footsteps behind him on the street at night, he’s relieved to turn around and see that it’s a white person. I’m paraphrasing.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        The problem was, the kids were adopted later, they were, in early years brought up in third world squalor, they were tested first at 8?
        Malnutrition plays a massive role, and with that being said, I believe they may have tested -2/3 SDs from Whites?

      • To Tulio,

        Thank’s for the grammar note. I typically type impulsively so I occasionally make mistakes.

  15. Chinedu

    Phil,

    Please stop following me around and writing nonsense. Why am I measuring only oil output? Because the oil in the ground is worthless until it’s produced. And there is a maximum number of barrels that can be produced per day. If you could simply extract all the barrels you want, the U.S. wouldn’t have to import any oil since there are tens of billions of barrels in the ground in this country. And, by the way, Nigeria’s oil reserves are modest compared to other countries and even the United States. Now you are sounding like a clueless 17 year old.

    I’m not commenting on the rest of your gibberish. As you may have noticed, I’m ignoring you. You’re a a hopeless member of a cult. Nothing anyone can do.

    • “Please stop following me around and writing nonsense. Why am I measuring only oil output? Because the oil in the ground is worthless until it’s produced.” Actually that goes into the difference between a reserve and reservoir. The former the amount in the ground that’s economically attainable and worth the effort to extract, the other would be the total in the ground in general. So no, oil does have value even if it wasn’t extracted.

      “And there is a maximum number of barrels that can be produced per day. If you could simply extract all the barrels you want, the U.S. wouldn’t have to import any oil since there are tens of billions of barrels in the ground in this country.”

      “And, by the way, Nigeria’s oil reserves are modest compared to other countries and even the United States. Now you are sounding like a clueless 17 year old.”

      Actually when you go by proven oil reserves, Nigeria is higher.

      https://www.google.com/search?q=oil+reserves+in+the+united+states&rlz=1CAACAJ_enUS665US665&oq=oil+reserves+in+the+united+states&aqs=chrome..69i57.8145j0j7&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_reserves_in_Nigeria

      https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2244rank.html

      • Chinedu

        Nigeria has larger oil reserves than the U.S.? No, it doesn’t. The U.S. has hundreds of billions of barrels of reserves that are not economical at current prices. Those are proven reserves. The oil is there. American frackers and offshore drillers are shutting down or suspending operations, not because they’ve hit dry wells, but because current prices don’t support production. Do you get the difference? Nigeria’s reserves don’t even come close to America’s or Saudi Arabia’s or Canada’s or Venezuela or UAE or Russia or Kuwait or Iraq or Iran.

      • Chinedu

        Sometimes it’s a good idea to shut up and listen and get educated.

        Oil producing countries like Nigeria will produce as at loss. America’s industry is private. They have to make a profit. Most of the government-run oil producers in the Middle East, Africa and South America are losing money on every barrel right now. Ecuador is losing $20 a barrel. Venezuela is losing about the same. But they have to keep producing and there are no stockholders to answer to. In this country, private publicly traded companies are the producers. If they don’t make money, they stop producing.

        • “Sometimes it’s a good idea to shut up and listen and get educated.

          Oil producing countries like Nigeria will produce as at loss. America’s industry is private. They have to make a profit. Most of the government-run oil producers in the Middle East, Africa and South America are losing money on every barrel right now. Ecuador is losing $20 a barrel. Venezuela is losing about the same. But they have to keep producing and there are no stockholders to answer to. In this country, private publicly traded companies are the producers. If they don’t make money, they stop producing.”

          That has nothing to do with my original point. My point was that you originally said nigeria was resource poor per capita.

          My point was that in terms available resources that can be extracted by proven oil resources, Nigeria isn’t resource poor.

          What you are going into is how effectively these countries could sell there oil in the market between private and government productions, something that wasn’t brought up til now.

          What you originally said was how it was resource poor based on how much it produces and how much it’s wealth is distributed.

          So you negated nothing of what I said.

        • Jason Y

          Phil has sort of a point. However, then again under private production, a selfish elite class keeps all the oil profits and won’t invest it wisely in the nation. See, that’s a problem that Karl Marx dealt with back in his day.

          Of course white supremacists and some Repubicans will blame the problem over-population, but that idea is debateable.

        • Jason Y

          Sorry meant to say “Of course white supremacists and some Repubicans will blame the problem on over-population, but that idea is highly debateable.

  16. Jason Y

    No offense to Phil, and also I can say I have the same problem, but I bet when he was younger people thought he was gay. He acts all tough in his posts, but I think it’s a cover or front.

    Of course, people being bullied because they seem gay, goes on big time in black neighborhoods. Phil has just taken this humilation from bullying and turned it against his own race. I don’t really blame him,

    I can expect his reaction to what I said to be harsh. If he does try to deny it, then I bet he’s lying.

    • Jason Y

      Note I am not being a prick here. It’s just his behavior is pretty obvious. I don’t mean my comments to be some kind of attempt to be mean to Phil.

    • Jason Y

      I hung around a black neighborhood one time in Knoxville and I was wearing cargo pants (I’m also a tall thin guy) cause I was going to church. These blacks were making fun of me saying, “I don’t know. He show does seem gay,”😆

      So this kind of behavior is common in black neighborhoods, and the more rougher than the more so obviously.

    • William

      I don’t know, Jason. Phil seems to put up with a lot of crap.

      More than I could deal with if I were in his place.

    • While I admit that I’m not exactly you’re typical black extrovert, any real proof that I’m taking out bullying by black because I was gay? You seem to be pretty jumpy on trying to assume things about me that isn’t there.

      But, I’ll give you credit where it’s sue, here’s what happened.

      As I was young, around (, I went from a private Catholic school to a Public School. Sure, I was picked on for my behavior and such but eventually I adapted and “earned” a place as a nice kid.Problem that this reflects in my feelings towards blacks was that

      A. the Catholic school itself was Black Majority, and Black kids. In other words, they weren’t the typical “thugs”.

      B. The Public school I went to was White Majority, hence I wasn’t bullied mostly by Blacks.

      C. When I did have issues with blacks, it was in middle school, with one kid who I made up with anyways.

      D. I made a post of attractive features of Black Women.

      Jason, if you wanted to know more about me I suggest you and not make ask assumptions. Such an action automatically puts you on the offensive regardless of your intentions.

      But I’ll tell you what, since you’re been so damn curious for the past forever about me I’ll write an article soon probably about blacks.

      • I retract D, the point was more towards Black people around me.

      • William

        So I take it you did not live in the rural parts of North Florida, where even among Whites there is a macho Redneck culture?

        • No, even when I did live in florida I lived in the Suburbs. But I did somewhat notice a more “macho” white thing going on compared to PA whites when I moved there when I was 11.

        • Now I live in the Austin Area of Texas, an overall Librel region.

      • Jason Y

        Kids don’t have to be thugs to be mean. Some really mean kids are just ordinary kids going to ordinary or above ordinary schools.

        • Jason Y

          Phil was saying black kids were giving him a hard time at an all black catholic school, maybe cause he was a smart kid.

        • Jason Y

          If you were bullied by whites, then you gotta taste indirectly of what mean blacks are like. To some extent, bullies are the same everywhere.

        • Jason Y

          Maybe Phil was bullied for being black, he was put in the same boat with ghetto blacks when didn’t deserve it. Perhaps that’s the source of much of his anger. Where I live you see a lot of that. Smartass kids want to start stuff with anyone black or people who have black inborn features, dress or talk black.

          It’s a case of the majority being cool and the misfit being stupid etc…

        • A. I didn’t say my majority black school gave me a hard time

          B. Your black/white bully point means nothing this case.

          C. Your assumption of me being lumped with Ghetto Blacks is wrong, Race wasn’t even a big deal in the areas I went to. Second, what “anger”?

          I’ve asked you in the past of why I’m “anti-black” and you never gave me an answer or an example. The only thing I do is support HBD and assert facts associated with them in applying them with blacks. But not just blacks, but other groups as well.

          The only anger I have is with people like you who ignore or don’t understand how science works, gets petty and evasive with answers, and become defensive a paint me like a bad Guy.

          I’ve pointed out and explained your faults before in the past elaborately, with little or poor responses. Hell, considering how much you bitcxh about Koreans and Low Class whites you come of as more of a racist than I do in the regard of showing great aversion for them.

          Cite me, anywhere, that I show aversion for blacks in a clear manner and general manner.

        • Jason Y

          No Phil apparently wasn’t bullied, but it seems to be the case with 99 percent of racists out there, including myself, my grudges came from bullying which some might argue I asked for.

          I think the truth may be in the middle. Koreans, for instance, didn’t ask for qualifications when hiring, so I went over there and did well for a time, but often fucked up. So then I get bullied and blamed for all sorts of crap I didn’t cause (9/11 etc..) and also cheap shots at my weight and other inborn features.

          Who knows? Among low class whites I grew up with, perhaps I was running my mouth, I just didn’t have the ability to socialize well with other kids. Because I was physically weak, I couldn’t impress them as someone to be respected. Basically the movies told me, if someone picks on you, then fight back. But I fought back and it just caused more bullying.

        • William

          I suppose that’s why Jason doesn’t always rub in the “NE Asians are Smarter than you, and SE Asians are equal” when debating White Supremacists.

          He doesn’t like them, either.

        • Jason Y

          Problem with Korea is due to job desperation they lower standards. However, at the same time the culture is incredibly intolerant and Darwinian. So from that mix your bound to get problems, as the people hired can never match up to the qualifications demanded. Also, and Koreans are to blame, the ordinary people will not blame the system, but will only blame the foreigner. They won’t even blame the school.

        • Jason Y

          I did go back many times thinking I could change things, and sometimes I had some good schools in South Korea, but generally it was just this big BDSM show. Well, one good thing, i can handle stress really well.

        • William

          although he does defend Jews………………….

          Now, speaking of Jews, I’d said my paternal grandmother hates Jews because she lived in a blue collar neighborhood in New York, and Jewish gangs and Dominican gangs constantly fought, since the Dominicans were moving in.

          Now, she has biases in that reaction

          It’s not only the Jews’ violence- it’s that she’s a Goy. Pretty obviously. My Grandfather looks like Azamat from Borat (Semitic) so he got by better.
          Her Maternal Grandparents had Black sharecroppers and she was always overly sympathetic towards Blacks (the Dominicans).

          I think personal prejuidices play into it. EPGAH was on a role up there talking about “Good people” (i.e. saying the people who create bad environments in the ghetto are inherently amoral), but you are treated the way you might treat the “other” it’s something found in all races.

        • Jason Y

          They want you to talk to Korean kids, but the kids won’t talk to you. You can’t make them talk unless you got a lot of training which they don’t demand over there.

        • William

          I think Asian- Americans are great.

          But from all I’ve heard I’m not naïve about the ones still there.

          I’ve heard other than upper-class portions of China the people are likely to extremely Darwinian, as Jason said.

          and as for YT, they either hate you or love you, there seems to be no in-between.

        • Okay Jason, this would be how you would do ask me this without being arrogantly self projecting

          “Was Phil ever bullied? In my experience, most of the racists I know had a hard time and that influenced them.”

          And to that effect I was “bullied” but it was just mild teasing that Robert had written about. I was sensitive about it but I conformed eventually and I actually appreciated it. I was too sensitive and it made me feel more social and confident. So I hold no grudges aside from a few people, individuals that gave me no reason to generalize a group.

        • William

          They thought you were a ghost🙂

        • Jason Y

          A lot of Korean kids loved my classes and it was something off Dead Poet’s Society. But many others didn’t because I didn’t connect with them. So everyday was like going to comedy show where your hated. So Imagine that. Wouldn’t that make you pscyho?

          Now possibly my personality could be bad, but I don’t think it was. I think the schools and system is BS and they’re to blame. I’m not that sucky so to speak. I can be funny and interesting if given the right tools, and I’m not stupid.

        • Jason Y

          The problem was always running out of material. If given the right material, then I can always delever a good show with no “You suck” heckling at all. 😆

        • Jason Y

          Well, what does Phil think of Fresh Prince’s brother on the show? Does his brother suffer unfair persecution? 😆

        • William

          Jason- I suppose you were teaching younger kids?

          If not, lecture might have been better. Rushton claimed Asians actually have lower self-esteem, and are just not talkative.

          The crowd here, at this Baseball game in Japan (MLB “tour”) was like 1/3 as loud as American crowds are regularly, but their beloved PM threw a pitch.

          If the President through the opening pitch at Nats stadium, the crowd would be going nuts (both Black and White), not as quiet!

        • I believe you are referring to Carlton, he was his Cousin not brother.

  17. actually culture plays an important role in advancement of civilization. Some golden-races of Afghanistan for example, are backward & war-torn just like congo/darfur/subsaharan africa(due to arab/sand-culture)…while srilankans/malayes etc non-Caucasians are having a healthy,nerdy & progressive civilization, due to sticking to hinduism/buddhism.(non-aryas with arya-culture/religion)

  18. Jason Y

    You have to talk to them. That’s the job. Even games get boring for them after awhile you have to talk. If you make them do homework they’ll hate you cause they go to school 15 hours a day.

    In response to phil,

    I think different types of everyone a good thing. All blacks shouldn’t be the same just as all whites are not the same.

    • Well alright but I never really said that Blacks were alike, and to be honest that something that I’m truly against in terms of thinking.

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