“Black Women and Beauty,” by Phil

This article shall partake in an investigation of “attractive traits” with females of West African extraction in terms of their effects with regard to appearance, along with a discussion of their development. Such an endeavor is undertaken due to Satoshi Kanazawa’s controversial work in analyzing differences in perceived beauty among races.

Why Are Black Women Less Physically Attractive Than Other Women?

In my honest opinion, this was something that I had trouble going through when thinking of women. I mean sure, I could think of attractive black women but typically they were mixed noticeably.

However, it wasn’t until I read and saw pictures of Native African women that I noticed four appealing physical aspects of African women.

Traits:

1. Eye Shape – Defining eye shape of Blacks is sort of weird, for there are various caricatures. The type encompasses the big “wide eyes”, “sad eyes” (almost like triangles, giving a sad look to them), small slits, etc. The big eyes I find to be more common in deeper jungle Blacks, I believe, sad eyes and slits to those that came from the desert. Medium/almond eyes, that are sometimes considered “pseudo Asian” eyes on black women, were among the one I found rather appealing.

2. Lips – While “Big lips” are sometimes seen as unattractive as opposed to small or lips that are just full, depending on the actually shape of the lips themselves they look nice as well. The thing is though is that they are less of a sexual appeal of beauty and just more of a comely feature when they are big but well shaped.

3. Contrast of features against skin – In the case of having attractive features they become more pronounced. Not a huge necessity for standard beauty, but a nice trait at least – though its effect depends on the presence of pre-existing features. The trend was present, although further examining led me to conclude it wasn’t that uncommon.

4. The fourth one has at first a bit of a dubious nature to it. Basically it deals with cases where typically discouraged traits like prognathism and prominent cheek bones look good when coupled with a slimmer face, prominent chin, and not as exaggerated. Basically what this does is further draw attention to these features in an organized and pleasing composition. The issue is that I was unsure of how significantly “common” this trend was, though further examining led me to conclude it wasn’t that uncommon.

Here. This would be a decent example of what I’m talking about.

However, it’s time to get to cons.

1. Head shape – From what I read, at least for the average African American female, they tend to get a wider face. Personally, a face that’s more pointed or oval – that is, having a thinner lower face – is more attractive on women. In the case of Black women this is caused by the larger Jaws of Blacks generally, more prominent cheek bones, and emphasized with a narrower forehead amongst blacks. However, I believe this is more of a male trait than female.

2. Nose – Basically more angular noses are preferred but I think it is more of its relative size and how much the nostrils flare.

3. Body – Reading info from Steve Sailor, while Black men in America have narrower hips than Whites or Latinos, Black women have the widest waists of women and even wider waists than Black men.

This is basically due to a combination of earlier development of female fat distribution in females and Blacks being on average more impulsive, in this case particularly with food. In some African cultures it’s a sign of beauty. Often before marriage ceremonies the women go through a fattening period.

Examination:

While many are probably familiar with European-mix progression, examples of African progression can be seen here amongst these Igbo women, an ethnic group of various looks.

Igbo Women

The two on the right and the second from the left are overall better looking than the one in the middle or on the left end (though the one in the middle is of course notably older). The causes are more noticeable in the one second from the left and the one on the far right, having less prominent cheek bones, more expressive eyes, and smaller lower lips. The eye traits are present in the one second from the right, though she has prominent cheekbones. This trait is complimented with a wider forehead and what I believed to be a more prominent chin.

More African women.

Compared to the one on the far left, the other two look more appealing due to having smaller jaws. But overall none look hideous, just more “ethnic looking” in which they have the traits to a noticeable but not to an exaggerated degree. All three, however, show the cheekbone trait (which I may add looks actually nice when coupled with a smaller jaw) but they seem to have “better” facial proportions where their faces don’t look unpleasingly wide. Their eye shapes seem to vary, too.

Ibo women.

The one on the far left shows African achievement of a face highly reduced of maxillary prognathism, while the one on the right shows one that is only partially reduced but is at a point that displays that unique “attractive” jutting I mentioned earlier. The one second from the right when compared to the one second from the left has wider (more almond) eyes and less prominent cheekbones, appearing more attractive due to a slimmer looking face and more expressive eyes. The one in the very middle is blurry but appears to resemble the type on the far right.

Young Ibo Women of Ibuza

Each of these girls, in my opinion, deviate a fair amount from typical vices due to the lower jaws with smaller lips and noses, though the one on the left seems to have a lower forehead (a vice that I forgot to add as well as possessing more slit eyes. The one on the right is quite the opposite, having quite a wider and higher forehead with bigger eyes.)

Igbo Women

This is a favorite of mine in which it shows a very good example of African progression that I speak of, being prognathism that is subtle and pronounces the fullness of the lips, not extending further than nose length, an overall smaller nose, what appear to be almond eyes, cheek bones that are showing but not overly prominent, with a forehead that is round.

The only concerning “flaw” it the forehead’s height but it’s not that big of a deal.

Biafrans.

The one on the right has the smallest jaw, thinnest lower face, intermediate nose and eyes size, and least exaggerated cheekbones. Still, all are rather pretty in my opinion anyway.

Though we’ve seen many examples of well-formed faces, actual specimens of body shapes yield little variation (from what I could find) to offer in forms of images. Most were slim, lanky forms that, while not truly unpleasing in my opinion, I must admit I would be biased in saying that it wouldn’t have limited appeal. Among African-American women these forms seems occasional but not that common, at least to me. Thus, it is likely due to nutritional factors if not wholly due to admixture, for native Africans were often recorded to be vegetarians, meat being held more commonly as a luxury rather than a given.

However, I’m fortunately in possession of positive commentary of European comments on Gold Coast women of both the Fanti and Ashanti tribes.

“The women when young are ugly in face and beautiful in form, when old they are in both.” (This is likely due to R/K breeding, causing faster maturation and possible loss in the retaining of younger traits).

“In general appearance the Ashanti much resemble the Fanti though they are not perhaps so strongly built. They are however quite as good looking and according to Mr Bowdieh the women are handsomer than those of the Fanti.”

The Uncivilized Races of Men in All Countries of the World Volume 1. by J. G. Wood

Discussion:

Now that we are familiar with the identification of African progression of attractive female traits, what possible mechanisms in Africa caused the common (without influence of modern opinions) stereotype type to prevail?

Well, Satoshi, after ruling out BMI and intellect differences, claims testosterone differences. The reasoning behind this is due to his findings that, net of intelligence, Black men were rated higher than men of other races. This led him to suggest that difference in testosterone, which produces masculine features and being recorded to being highest in blacks, resulted in Black males deemed more attractive and females not.

I’m unsure of this inference, but it does draw attention to the stronger association between “beauty” and intellect in Black males compared to females. The topic between his research of beauty and intellect can be accessed here for others to discuss in the comments, for now I’m going into some knowledge of why the results are the way they are.

Beautiful People Really Are More Intelligent

One possible reason for these results is social roles in regards to sexual selection. From reading Among the Ibos by George Thomas Basden:

“In the majority of cases young man makes his own choice. He happens to a girl who attracts his attention and he immediately inquiries as to her parents and whether she be engaged or not. If she is free he endeavors to through her friends information concerning her in cooking trading and other useful and profitable accomplishments. He also inquires about her whether she be of good temper quiet industrious and so forth. Should these investigations prove satisfactory he lays his case before his parents or his friend for he cannot make the first advances personally.”

According to this, while initial notice (likely attraction) starts courtship, it is actual character that causes union to follow. Some HBD’rs claim that populations in Eurasia had a more directed course of selection, often described as self-domestication. It’s possible that in cases like here with some African tribes different standards in selection caused for different measures of association of intellect – for example, a proxy of character – that caused the weaker association in black women. It is worth mentioning, however, that based on Satoshi’s research that the correlation between attractiveness and intellect is higher in men than women by about 2.4 IQ points. I believe the association becomes stronger as a society develops. The Ashanti have often been commented to have a higher culture than Fanti, and the women of the Ashanti were commented to be more beautiful as well, though the margin between men was regarded as relatively smaller, with the Fanti males having a better build but the Ashanti being superior in facial features.

Regardless, I’m an amateur at best with the topic and I urge anyone else knowledgeable on the topic to share in the comment section.

103 Comments

Filed under Africa, Anthropology, Blacks, Guest Posts, Nigeria, Nigerians, Physical, Psychology, Race Realism, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, West Africa, Women

103 responses to ““Black Women and Beauty,” by Phil

  1. “The big eyes I fond to be more common in deeper jungle Blacks I believe, sad eyes and slits to those that came from the desert.”

    This was accidently misspoken. I meant to phrase it as it could’ve been possible that these difference spawned from adaptations to the environments.

    E.I more wooeded areas with little light would need bugger eyes to capture light, areas with more sand blowing would need smaller eyes to protect them (like Khoisan).

    Editing mistake, didn’t mean to sound so blunt.

  2. Also the example of skin contrast was meant to be one of subtle Prognathism and prominent cheekbones. When not exaggerated, they both come off as attractive my emphasized the sculpt of the face and drawing attention to the lips.

    The example along with it, though, displays both.

  3. Gay State Girl

    Phil

    How do you feel about girls with thick textured hair or curly hair on a white woman for that matter?

  4. In regards to the Testosterone theory, while latest studies did find a 2-5% difference for Blacks (higher estradiol being more consistent though it’s particular function is as a steroid such as for Bone density somewhat similar to Testosterone and Muscle), I not 100% if this is the main effect but again possible.

    Selection though I feel may play a larger role or is more of the cause and hormones being the result.

  5. Jason Y

    More stuff that’s subjective, but oddly enough you could find white nationalists posters who argue mixed raced girls are more ugly simply cause they don’t like race mixing. In some cases, they try to argue both are ugly.

  6. Jason Y

    I’m unsure of this inference, but it does draw attention to the stronger association between “beauty” and intellect in Black males compared to females. The topic between his research of beauty and intellect can be accessed here for others to discuss in the comments, for now I’m going into some knowledge of why the results are the way they are.

    Beautiful People Really Are More Intelligent

    One possible reason for these results is social roles in regards to sexual selection. From reading Among the Ibos by George Thomas Basden:

    More massive genetic theory overkill, and again it’s more subjective stuff. For instance, I like Northeast Asian women. My friend doesn’t saying their ugly. I cannot understand his view at all, mainly cause it’s very subjective.

    • Again, have you even researched the topic to even judge it objectively. Also you’re using a case study, overall a euphemism for anecdote as usually.

      • Jason Y

        Just cause a few go against the crowd doesn’t mean the crowd is always right. The few who go against the crowd, are proving the crowd wrong. Note, a lot of times in math logic, all you need is one example which makes the math proof wrong, and you therefore prove the opposite true.

        • You example is muddled, that exactly what I’m asking you to do. I WANT YOU to prove me to me that this info could be error if you believe bias is at hand.

  7. Jason Y

    Another example regards dickhead Koreans. They will point out that one among them or a foreigner is fat, and even say it to their face or behind their back. Of course, I saw plenty of women there who were not fat, but were rather thick. Yet, these people have to comment they’re fat.

    So again, it’s more subjective crap used to promote psychological abuse of people, subhuman treatment, job and sexual discrimination etc…

    • Irrelevant, unless you could actually point out a methodical flaw in Satoshi’s work then this is your typical drivel as always Jason.

      • Jason Y

        Why does everything have to be scientific and couldn’t science be BS sometimes? A lot of stuff just comes from observing people’s conversations etc.. You can see pretty clearly, using the example of Koreans, that the view of beauty is a load of crap, especially considering many other cultures, African American being one actually prefer thick women, at least a lot of them do.

        Koreans are just kind of people who always want to tear people down, and they adopt shallow western views of beauty that they get from the mass media from the west.

      • Jason Y

        A Japanese guy does the research? Among what cultures? Wouldn’t cultural BS bias the study. Kind of like how Koreans think moderately thick chicks are fat and should be shamed, but African Americans would give the women a 10.

        How about how western men go to Northeast Asia and become 10s and then go back home and there just another average white guy?

      • “Why does everything have to be scientific and couldn’t science be BS sometimes?” Well if you stop and think about what science actually is then you wouldn’t ask why “everything has to be scientific”. To prove BS you would have to use proof. While the refutation article I linked to makes some points, it doesn’t exactly refute the actual correlations found.

        A lot of stuff just comes from observing people’s conversations etc.. You can see pretty clearly, using the example of Koreans, that the view of beauty is a load of crap, especially considering many other cultures, African American being one actually prefer thick women, at least a lot of them do.

        Despite the study, as I said, wasn’t based on Satoshi’s opinion but the opinion of Add health interviewers. Still, even in that, there was errors made apparently.

        • Jason Y

          Errors? Interesting.

        • Yes, errors. In otherwords, actually investigation and arguments and not just some hypothetical mush on cultural bias, Koreans, and hillbillies from Tennessee as you usually do.

          I can definitely accept arguments against the case, all I ask is to prove it. Same shit over and over Jason.

  8. Tulio

    I think it’s subjective as Jason states. Satoshi thinks black women are most unattractive. I think Australian Aboriginal women are by far less attractive than black women and in my opinion the least attractive women on earth. Number two after them would be Andean Indian women. Beautiful Amerindian women are almost non-existent. Whereas I can find many example of attractive African women.

    http://darkskinnedblackbeauty.tumblr.com/image/146537341739

    • Jason Y

      Amerindian women unattractive? You’ve never seen those nature exploitation movies?

    • Jason Y

      Ok, your saying it’s subjective, but how counter arguments by phil who claims science and research is on his side?

    • To Tulio,

      Satoshi study was just based on What I believe are American population of these races, considering the Native American and Latinos categories, not global races as a whole.

      Also it was done with multiple subjects, so while you’re opinion possibly exists among it’s not representative. Furthermore, what you’re using are not representative samples to judge and you’re confusing the finding. Like with IQ, this is based on averages.

    • Also, tulio, based on the study it appears that this inference was based on African American teenagers and not African American adult women.

      It’s been shown that in regards to adult women the distribution in scores with that they didn’t differ, at least with this study.

      However, the refutation article which mentions this also shows another study in perceived differences but he doesn’t exactly take that one apart either.

    • https://racehist.blogspot.com/2011/06/light-skinned-black-women-rated-more.html

      Ignore the commenters, this site is rather Nordicist in a sense, and just focus on this chart from Kanazawa.

      While the overall correlation would be that light skin s an advantage, what’s interesting is the extremes as you go along the different levels of attractiveness.

      Rather than Black itself, medium brown was seen as the most unattractive, though fluctuations occur as you go higher in attractiveness.

      As far as the most attractive, it goes as light skin, dark brown, medium brown, black, and then white.

      This seems to have some support for my comment on color contrast based in skin tone, but as the blogger mentions it could be flawed.

    • Gay State Girl

      Amerindian women are unattractive? Just what planet are you living on?

  9. Jason Y

    Oddly enough, a face will grow on you. Even an average face becomes like a super-model. For instance, you might see an average girl at school, work, a waitress etc.. Soon you want to fuck her, even more so than some porn model you see on the net.

    Sounds creepy and weird, but true and I’m not the only guy like that.

    I guess it’s kind of like how average or maybe bad food or a song grows on you also.

    • Again, scientific support that this is a common trend in behavior? Second, Satoshi’s work was based on interviewers of Add who observed interviewees. What I DID find that the attraction perception was based on teenagers but as adults Black women apparently weren’t found to be the most physically unattractive apparently on an analysis of his data in the refution article.

      https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/beautiful-minds/201105/black-women-are-not-rated-less-attractive-our-independent-analysis-the

      Some of the other analysis is speculative in refuting Satoshi, yet still nothing has refuted a true valid measure of beauty.

      “A Japanese guy does the research? Among what cultures? Wouldn’t cultural BS bias the study. Kind of like how Koreans think moderately thick chicks are fat and should be shamed, but African Americans would give the women a 10.

      How about how western men go to Northeast Asia and become 10s and then go back home and there just another average white guy?”

      Why would he raise Black men up then and not Black women if it was cultural Bias?

      Second it wasn’t because it was “fat” as viewed by NE Asians because he mentioned how BMI NOR intelligence differences explained it.

      Third, it wasn’t simply HIS opinion, it was the opinion based on Add Health interviewers however, as I said, a valid note would be how the negative readings were based on Black female teenagers.

      • Jm8

        In the UK Concerning Afro Carribbeans (since Africans outmarry much-significantly less): The rate of Black female/White male marriage is fairly close to the Bm/Wf rate (about 40% and 50% of Black females and males respectively. While in the US, the rates have been (perhaps this may have begun to change but very recent data would be needed) much are more asymmetrical (about twice as many men as women).

        • Well that’s somewhat to be expected in respects to immigrants, though something worth mentioning is that Jamaica from example has a particularly significant amount of ancestry from Akan people, particularly of Ashanti origin (referring to what was said of them in terms of beauty).

          That was something I’ve actually considered when thinking about New World Blacks.

          Also, what data do you have on economic status, because while I heard earlier ones were from lower classes it’s different with later arrivals.

        • Jm8

          Also, high cheekbones, which are somewhat common (as you mention) in some black types (especially some West African Sahel/Savanah/Savannah border types, Nilo-Saharans/Nilotics/certain East Africans, and some types of Southern Bantu.) are generally more of a feminine trait (as I believe are thicker lips, as opposed to thin ones).

        • True, but there’s actually a point for both traits where they are deemed unappealing with exaggerated.

          For example, when the lip “bulge” too much in terms of projection, also with Blacks, compared to other Races on average, prominent cheekbones are a feature but it is one that is deemed somewhat primitive (that’s not to say other races don’t have it, for the cranial base is a feature that is larger in blacks that is considered a modern feature.) when the project too mucb as well.

      • Jm8

        To name a few examples: Women of the certain tribes in the savanna (like the Wolof, Mandinka, etc) region) were said to be (especially) attractive in the region by some explorers/visitors (as were those of the south/south east Nigeria (and the Akan (as you mention). Central African explorer, Emil Torday (a Hungarian) found the Luba tribe’s women (of Zaire) to be especially pretty.

        • Yes, Blacks further North where noted to be rather handsome, the most prolific in this quality I read of the Wolof.

          While I have not read of much in Central Africa towards a particular tribe, the area was general held in the past as having a higher density of advance pagan cultures than Western Africa, and if the trend of Higher society and female beauty applies there as well, the Luba would be likely suspects.

        • Oh, btw, I wanted to recheck my research on cheekbones between races because I’ve only read that it was particularly projecting in Asians, Blacks and Caucasians being receded on average.

          Looking back on skull differences mentioned in “Erectus Walks Among Us” Blacks are described as “Slightly projecting” in terms of cheekbones, so my points on that were slightly correct.

      • Jason Y

        Fat girls are dumber? That’s not the explanation why some people don’t want fat girls. What r u driving at here? Maybe they could be preceived as lazy, but only in certain cultures among certain groups, especially normie assholes.

        • Less intelligence= more impulsiveness thus they would have higher BMI than average more often than those of higher intellect.

          It’s a correlation, not a exact rule. Basically people in different IQ levels have different likelihoods of being Obese.

    • Stary Wylk

      “Sounds creepy and weird, but true and I’m not the only guy like that.”

      What is creepy and weird is that you call it “creepy and weird”. One of the things where a waitress you see often has an beauty advantage over the porn actress is that you can smell her, whether you are aware of this or not. Another is that you don’t know that the waitress is a whore, in some sense.

      I cruise the web for pictures of nude women almost daily. There is one who stands out to me for attractiveness, to the point where I deliberately did not click on her since I don’t want to encourage myself to crush on pictures.

      A little analysis showed me why I found her so much better than others. Her pubes are hairy, she has no piercings nor tattoos. In the first set I saw her in she wore a crown of wildflowers so she looked like a young bride showing herself to her husband.

      There is nothing weird or wrong about preferring to fuck a woman who hasn’t already been fucked by many others. Your instincts are a better guide, sometimes at least, than your conscious, and socially learned. thinking.

  10. DHL

    I would like to point out one physical trait that the European people are not proud of, among many physical traits they seem to like about themselves. The physical trait is of having Canines like that of a Dog.

    • I believe the reason why that may be is because, compared to Blacks, they ate meat more when adapting to Europe. As well they have larger Incisors.

      Blacks, I believe, in turn have bigger Molars (I also vaguely remember hearing something about them having slightly MORE teeth on average but I haven’t researched that recently.)

    • Stary Wylk

      “I would like to point out one physical trait that the European people are not proud of, among many physical traits they seem to like about themselves. The physical trait is of having Canines like that of a Dog.”

      A few years ago I had some dentures made. One of the things I specified was that the canines be a sixteenth-inch longer than the teeth next them. One of the things that always gave away the falsity of dentures to me was that none of them stuck out above (or below for an upper) the others. One guy I knew actually had his made a little crooked,

  11. Rowlii

    Nice Post !

    Taking into account the sexual selection for beauty (and intelligence) can we expect to see black people (and people generally) being more intelligent despite dysgenic effet ?

    • Thank you.

      Sadly that would depend on how criminals are apprehended as well as how different demographics breed.

      If, say, the smarter amongst people breed more or the lower intelligent breed less (beauty and IQ so far having a .4 correlation) thing would be likely to progress.

      Unless this is handled, as it is not in the west, thing would not likely be. I wouldn’t suggest anything cruel but a better grip on society would be required if actual progression is desired.

      • Rowlii

        Thanks.

        An other question : I am dating a black woman (whith indian mixture)… I think that she is more intelligent that the average women (she has a master degree).

        Taking into account that the intelligence is less hereditary for black people do i have to worry about the smartness of my prospective offspring ?

        • That’s interesting, Typically while Blacks are found to have a lower heredity with IQ a Mother’s IQ has more of a correlation than the father’s. Not sure which would when definitely in this scenario but what I can tell you is that those with White father and Black mothers typically turn out pretty good at least Behaviorally.

          You may have to worry but perhaps not that much, especially if she seems smarter than average.

      • Tulio

        I’d read that college educated black women have a fertility rate of 1.2. I know it seems like the ones on welfare have 4 kids by different dads. I’m honestly surprised the black American IQ is holding at 85, because it definitely seems like the dumbest amongst us are way outbreeding the smarter ones.

        • Jm8

          I read somewhere that current American Black mating trends are dysgenic (and may have become more so t0ward the present) in some studies (or would be thought to be by indicators like the one you cite) so this may be right. I will probably post the source/data if I find it

        • Gay State Girl

          I am concerned about that as well. All the fault of the pro life leanings of the church.

          I am concerned about the underclass outbreeding the elite as well.

          We could just invite all the high IQ women to donate their ova and in return contribute to paying off their college loans. This need not be a fight.

        • Good thing I’m a twin.

        • Jason Y

          If they’re having kds by 4 different dads then inbreeding would be a problem like you’d see in Slavic nations. If they stopped, even average blacks might overtime become smarter thru just normal breeding among themselves, or even a few dumb one in the mix wouldn’t do much.

        • “If they’re having kds by 4 different dads then inbreeding would be a problem like you’d see in Slavic nations. If they stopped, even average blacks might overtime become smarter thru just normal breeding among themselves, or even a few dumb one in the mix wouldn’t do much.”

          No, that would be inbreeding, that would be simply irresponsible sex. Inbreeding at somepoint would have to involve mating with someone with with a close genetic relation, the limit being a 2nd cousin as far as possible genetic defects goes.

          To prove inbreeding, one would have to prove that they are breeding with their family. Third, while outbreeding would help exactly how do you think that will change in their circumstances? People like that typically hardly change their routines based on good foresight.

        • Gay State Girl

          I’m pretty inbred LOL. I have several great grandparents who married cousins.

        • Jason Y

          Having a dad who has kids with 10 women does wreck the environment though, something HBDers don’t take into account that much.

        • To Jason,

          perhaps because it is logically scene as a product of dysfunction rather than the cause. I mean, it doesn’t help but simply removing it wouldn’t automatically make things better.

          If environmental reasons are to help, counseling would probably be best but the results from that I’m agnostic of.

  12. Jm8

    Generally speaking, it seems that in mating/marriage, women are more influenced by emotional impressions, while men often(or are at least somewhat more likely to) prioritize factors that bear on the long term and legacy(in addtion to beauty); since men are historically the sex that more seeks/preserves power, wealth, and status (of family and lineage) and concerns itself with the future/legacy of such (the production of heirs).

    Men will allways be less likely to marry and have kids with (or at least exclusively with) the women of a stigmatized or lower-status group in their society (which Blacks are in parts of the west, or maybe rather, at least/especially in the US—historically and now) even if they may find that group’s women attractive.

    To marry them would be risky (for men of the more dominant/highter status social group—whether by race, ethnicity, or caste), because it would endanger/compromise/downgrade the social status(or their connection to the more prestigious culture) of ther offspring (causing theirs to be lower than his own). This does not of course prohibit, or much discourage—as many hostorical examples show—, sexual activity by them with women of such a group; casual, before or outside marriage, etc.

  13. Jm8

    Edit: “…because it would endanger/compromise/downgrade the social status(or their connection to the more prestigious societal group and its networks/assets/wealth/advantages/etc)”

    • Jason Y

      Depends on the crowd. If you live in a racist family or a racist area, which in Tennessee would be certain small areas, as opposed to the whole, then you’d get shamed and hated.

      In Tennessee, for instance, it’s also seen as desperation by some latent racist families which have decent money. The poorer classes have some girls,sometimes guys who date blacks.

      • Jason Y

        However, the idea that the kids will be unwanted or you will be burned alive for having mixed kids (with blacks) is highly misleading even in Tennessee. That was true probably in the 50s and 60, somewhat in the 70s. It’s pretty much died out on the whole here, unless you go to certain really small areas. But even the small town I am near, Iv’e seen white women with mixed kids and nobody cares.

        • Jm8

          I didd’nt mean that extreme necessarily. But their standing will likely be lower/membership insecure, less valued(none of this is farfetched, but rather the reverse; very intuitive and straightforward, especially given our history). When one group is of higher status, those descended from both in general (it and the lower status group) will usually have a middle a status (or worse, as the US uniquely had the very caste-like on-drop rule—though that rule is now erroding/disolving here.)

          People are rarely burned alive now (and I said nothing about that or anything like that). Fomerly they were also often exiled in a sence from mainstram (essentially White) society. I would not make such a strong statement about the second.

          As for mixed kids being unwanted—or barely tolerated and resented, that is still quite common in American culture—hard data might be hard, but not impossible to find—(but is seemingly but much less common in Europe/Canada, or in Latin America—and I was primarily speaking of the US anyway)—sometimes obscured by the smokescreens of political correctness (the desire to not SEEM racist) or politeness.
          It could vary by region though. I have the impression that parts (but likely only parts) of Appalacia were less racist (by Southern, or even American standards in some ways) historically.

        • Jm8

          edit: “…unwanted—or barely tolerated and resented, that is still quite common in American culture but it is often very subtle and would mostly not be apparent to ouside/casual observation—…”

        • Jason Y

          True Appalachia isn’t the deep south. In some parts of Appalachia, a black or mixed raced person is just seen as another white guy.

          Well, there isn’t a lot of ethnic conflict, so you don’t have as much hate, cause people don’t feel as threatened. For instance, a black moving from Atlanta (deep south) into an all white Georgia county would be met with massive fear and hate cause he would be associated with crime etc…

        • Jason Y

          Iv’e not seen that mixed raced kids at least here in Appalachia or resented or hated. They’re just viewed as black. But it can be difficult for a white face with curly hair. I think the problem is that mixed kids with black faces are considered black, so they have other blacks to back them up when they’re threatened.

          Also, again mixed kids would live in more black areas around more blacks. But a black or mixed kid in a white area like the one near my home would get hassled from white kids.

        • Jason Y

          Note Jamaica is massively racist, cause Bob Marley was bullied for being part white, called “white boy” as a youngster.

          However, now in the US there are so many mixed raced kids, that they form a tribe, so it’s probably harder for more pure blacks or sometimes whites to bully them.

        • Jason Y

          I wouldn’t want to marry Asians or maybe even Latinos cause they’re more racist againt blacks and my kids might have curly hair. I wouldn’t even really want to marry a white for the same reason, but probably they would fare well in a more black area.

          Of course, a Filipina will marry any white guy, but the problem lies in the fact they’re idiotically racist and the kids would have to deal with other Asian kids giving them a hard time.

        • Jason Y

          Filipinos are racist against blacks and part blacks. A part white Filipino without curly hair would be liked however.

      • Jason Y

        Generally speaking, the rebel flag flying crowd (in the back of trucks) only pick on people who directly try to confront them, or directly attack white people say on Facebook or something. They won’t bully black people or so called race mixers in most areas

        Of course a lot of them are in denial thinking they’re not racist, but only doing some dumb cultural heritage thing.

  14. Joe

    The reason why big lips are seen as unattractive, particularly on black women, is because of alveolar prognathism. Generally, alveolar prognathism is a primitive trait, that is common amongst sub-Saharan Africans and darker Asians.

    Prognathism is likely the number one contributor to black women’s perceived unattrativeness, because we generally attribute prognathism as masculine:

    Men are to have a strong jaw, as an example.

    Lets not forget that almost everything runs under a probability distribution curve. I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a correlation between attractiveness and IQ (not directly). In that, attractive black women, without admixture, will have less aggressive features – less testosterone – thus less likely to be perceived as masculine.

    • As for Lips being seen as unattractive on Black women being due of prognathism I’m unsure because typically the rule applied to white women as well and they typically didn’t have prognathism.

      Granted Yeah, I do believe prognathism, when exaggerated, is indeed masculine such as being coupled with a large Jaw and jutting maxillary bone. Though when it occasionally is coupled by a small jaw and is less extreme I personally find it to somewhat enhance features.

      As for your last paragraph that’s basically true too when it comes to the perception of Black women with respect to racial differences.

  15. Erik Sieven

    female attractivity is rather irrelevant. Almost all women look good enough for almost all men when they are young. When they have no extreme disease, are not extremely fat or something like that they are OK for most men. Male attractivity on the other side is rather important, because when they are not rich a substantial share of male have serious problems getting a wife because of their physical conditions.

    • “female attractivity is rather irrelevant. Almost all women look good enough for almost all men when they are young. When they have no extreme disease, are not extremely fat or something like that they are OK for most men. Male attractivity on the other side is rather important, because when they are not rich a substantial share of male have serious problems getting a wife because of their physical conditions.”

      That depends on what culture selection is acting under. While women have a role in choosing, males are typically the ones historically who actually chooses (hierarchy, polygamy, etc.).

      However, the fitness of men is important as well, but it’s less to give good perception to the woman and more about actual ability to compete with other males but I do still think that it perception would be something value though it would be more obvious under forces of monogamy or bigamous polygamy.

      Nowadays in societies with expectations to live longer and such, even if they still hold to young marriages, a wife who would retain beauty longer would still be desired.

      Though you overall have a point, and you’re description of a passable wife would apply to many young girls that I have notice in pictures in Sub Saharan Africa, before aging or ceremonial fattening.

  16. Chinedu

    Beauty is in the eye of the beholder and is largely depended on conditioning. Take a white blonde supermodel type and have her walk into some native village where the people are not accustomed to seeing white people and I guarantee you she will be considered grotesque looking.

    I attended a predominantly black middle school. All the boys there, including the white, Asian and Hispanic boys, lusted after black girls. Because that’s what we were exposed to. That’s what we were around every day.

    • This I’ll give you, despite Satoshi’s work even some HBD’rs find it some part dubious in terms of making correlations with certain features.

      When researching preferences with a sample of Black women and white women among the most attractive were light brown and other shade with whites at last, though the correlation displayed lighter skin having a general advantage rather than a extreme one.

      However, there are forms of what is consider beautiful, in the sense of face symmetry as well as correlations between facial appearance and health. These forms, however, are not exclusive to European people and exists amongst other groups as well. The thing is that they have common features but also unique features as well (such as those that I observed in Black women).

      Because think about it, you could basically think about it as say, healthy people natural look “better” than say unhealthy ones. As Erik said above, women like them, at least when young, are a good threshold.

      Also you have some cultural aspects as well (ceremonial fattening being one). One of my favorites though would be how in many African cultures the native stylized hair using mud, charcoal, and other material to make albeit permanent, very alluring shapes. I find people like the Igbo (from photos that I’m able to observe) and similar to be particularly good at this. The Only people in North Africa that I’ve seen doing stuff like this are nomads like Fulani and Tuaregs who are typically mixed, so I get an impression this is a form of cultural expression more prominent in Sub Saharan people.

      I prefer that Black women in America would do stuff like this (actual hair styling) rather than using fake hair. I find it both authentic and traditional.

      • Chinedu

        Well, even today among the Igbos, someone with typical European features (and they do exist) isn’t going to be considered the most beautiful. This is in spite the fact that black Africans are now very much exposed to this idea of beauty and maybe even overexposed. Extreme features in any direction is not considered ideal, including very light skin, very dark skin, pointy nose, broad nose, thin lips, very thick lips, etc. I believe it has always been this way even before colonialism.

  17. Chinedu

    *dependent

  18. Ultra Cool

    Black women are NOT ugly. the is their skin is often uneven, some parts darker and some lighter, uneven-colored skin is not attractive. All races have beautiful women, but exreme racial phenotypes tend to be ugly.

  19. Another William Playfair Web

    I find East African women more attractive than west African/African American. Like Lupitya Nyongo . Do you live in a highly Black area, Phil? Seems like you talk more anthropologically than personal experiencelly…

    • I haven’t been around blacks that much sense I was a kid in Florida. Even then, it was just my school and not my neighborhood.

      As much as others would consider what I’m about to say to be mad, I wish I either stayed or even better I actually lived with my extended family in South Carolina. I use anthropology because, while it does often speak ill of black, they express it more intelligently better than say you average ranting commenter. Even then, with it’s criticisms there comes their honest compliments as well.

      Here’s an example of what I usually read. http://www.archive.org/stream/amongibosofniger00basd/amongibosofniger00basd_djvu.txt

      Typically I spend my research typing in “negro” with a old tribe name on google and see what results I could find. Aside from that, Jm8 typically adds commentary as well.

      I usually don’t hang all that much with other Middle class blacks in white Majority schools, not that I don’t like them or try to avoid them, but I just don’t typically gravitate. As far a social trends, I mainly listen to some stories from my parents. I actually have a cousin name Zachary who basically is going through all the troubles being a young dad, no Job and with a record. Time after time he couldn’t commit to an opportunity but now he’s part of the workforce, so I’m not exactly agnostic towards trends of struggles.

  20. Nsimbi

    This is one of your gayest write up…real men can never be this petty

    • Define “Gay”. Unless you have an actual scientific argument I recommend that you refrain from emotional projection.

      Second, if you even bothered to read my other comments you would see that I actually mentioned flaws pertaining to the original study and it’s conclusion to black women.

  21. lysingur

    Maybe I’m missing something but there are different types of black Africans. East Africans, like Somalian and Ethiopians, have vastly different morphology than West Africans like Burkinabé and Senegalese.
    Miss Ethiopia 2012
    The cited article focuses only on facial features but when men look at women they don’t just focus on their face. Even from a purely physical attraction standpoint, body shape figures large for men. Controlling nutrient intake, social class, and health status and factoring in body type, I’d imagine that the beauty ranking would be a bit different.

    • The article was mainly taking about those of West African/ Central African extraction. Keep in mind East Africans are significantly mixed compared to West Africans due to Neolithic farmers and historical expansions from the Middle East. Nilotics however are different in morphology than the subject used in the study but are quite pure.

      I’ve mentioned body types in my article as well. Aside from those points, your other notes are legit and should be kept in mind.

    • Well can you provide any data that could be applied here?

      Also, this article was in reference to West Africans and New World descendants on the Most part. Also, East Africa is significantly mixed with Neolithic Farmer ancestry and historical expansions from the middle east.

  22. Ultra Cool

    Women with strong Black physical features look better with very dark skin, the light golden brown skin some of them have doesn’t fit them well, Black albinos look quite frightening because their color doesn’t fit their looks.

  23. Ultra Cool

    Prognathism can look cute, but ONLY when it’s not extreme and the face is not wide, African hair doesn’t look good in its natural form no matter the style, I cannot blame Blacks for straightening their hair so often.

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