More Crap about IQ from the IQ Haters

From Facebook, referring to my posts:

I would never deny the value of a High-IQ person over a Low-IQ person. However, there are many things that might easily allow a Low-IQ person to beat a High-IQ person at any skill.

Patience and Discipline are the most important of those things, followed by Experience and Lowered Neuroticism. These are the qualities that can defeat a High-IQ person.

Any skill?

No way, but there is truth to what he says. You can certainly get far in life with a normal IQ or even a low IQ. Charles Oglivy, the founder of modern American advertising, took repeated IQ tests and always scored ~95. He was one of the most successful men in the history of this country. Elvis Presley scored 70 on an IQ in school but he was one of the greatest entertainers of all time. 70 is borderline IQ, verging on retarded, but it didn’t stop him from being famous and wealthy. Muhammad Ali had an IQ of 85. That’s low normal. But he was very charming, had delightful verbal skills almost like a pre-rapper and was funny as Hell. An IQ of below 100 is often not a barrier at all to success at least in America.

America is a nation of IQ haters. It is completely unacceptable to discuss this matter or even write about it. You would not believe the grief I get for even daring to write about it. Most people you meet flip out when you mention IQ, especially high IQ, and start getting upset and angry. However, almost all of these are people who apparently do not have very high IQ’s. Every single high to very high IQ person I have ever run into likes to talk about this subject, and they are not bothered by it at all. The truth is that most Americans hate IQ and high IQ discussions because their own IQ isn’t very high!

I fail to understand why Americans are so bizarre about this.

A high IQ is simply a talent, and inborn one, a gift. So many people are born with gifted talents. Think of all of the musical, artistic, literary, mechanical, thesbian, dancing, singing, mathematical, athletic and even socially talented born geniuses there are out there. Americans admire anyone who has any of these natural inborn talents.

“Ooohhh ahhhhh wow she is such a great artist, oh wow, impressive.”

All inborn talents, even beauty, are respected and even cheered on except for brains!

Yes lower IQ people can outperform higher IQ on many tasks and even jobs, and many lower IQ people can and do still earn a lot of money. Brains, even brilliant brains, will only get you so far in society.

Now to the suggestions in the argument above. I believe they are not valid. I have been around many people in my life, high to low IQ, and I would say that high IQ people are much more likely to be patient and disciplined than lower IQ persons. Yes, lower IQ people are less neurotic, but they also often suffer from other disorders such as mood, psychotic, character or substance use disorders.

I have a hard time understand why some anxiety disorder (neuroticism) is such a big deal. Generally speaking, these are pretty minor mental illnesses, you know.

At any rate, IQ is correlated very well with work performance, attendance, discipline, all the sort of things that lead to success on the job. I would hire a higher IQ person over a lower IQ one in a heartbeat.  IQ is correlated with many things that will help you be successful and healthy in life.

A lower IQ person is no more likely to have a lot of experience than a high IQ person is. Anyway, all of the Renaissance Men I have known who were experienced and very good at all sorts of things had high IQ’s. Your lower IQ guy is often good at one thing, say being a short order cook in a taqueria.

Also, below a certain level, low intelligence is downright dangerous. Dumb people are sort of dangerous solely on account of being dumb. Haven’t you noticed that in life?

Stupidity is dangerous!

65 Comments

Filed under American, Anxiety Disorders, Celebrities, Culture, Dangerous Idiots, Intelligence, Mental Illness, Psychology, Psychopathology, Regional, USA

65 responses to “More Crap about IQ from the IQ Haters

  1. James Schipper

    Dear Robert

    IQ has predictive value, but not for every individual, only for groups. If we have 2000 15-year-olds , 1000 with an IQ of 110 and 1000 with an IQ of 90, then we can safely predict that, when they are 50, the ones with the IQ of 110 will have higher average income than the ones with the IQ of 90. However, there will be overlap. In the low-IQ group there will be some individuals with high incomes, and among the high-IQ individuals there will be some with a low income.

    It is the same with every group difference. There is nearly always overlap. On average, men are taller than women, but there are tall women and short men. Still, if we compare the average height of 1000 more or less randomly chosen men with the average height of similarly chosen women from the same race, then we can safely predict that the average height of the men will be greater than that of the women. On the other hand, if all we know about Paula is that she is a woman, then we cannot safely predict that Paula is short.

    About group differences, we should reason statistically, to which, unfortunately, very few people are inclined. it is very annoying when people ignore overlap or when they seem to think that overlap somehow eliminates group differences. It is the old fallacy of “women can be tall, good at math, power-hungry, violent, etc too”. Yes they can, but maybe tallness, excellence at math, power-hungriness and violence are not found as frequently among women as among men.

    Regards. James

  2. Endgame

    The IQ test I took was strictly spatial intelligence, recongizing patterns.

    Does not factor in our neoliberal endgame: that chronic stress….

    (inability to plan or take care of needs; scrambling at near-survival level; employer misinformation and indifference; lousy noisy dirty environments you can afford to live in; the better sort rationalizing that you deserved it as the poor just aren’t that smart; meanwhile they’ll only hire young, lovely people who are easily maniuplated)

    …can and will significantly lower apparent IQ. Sheer exhaustion.

    • Well they have IQ tests now that are so culture-fair that they do not even have any language on them! It’s all just pattern recognition and whatnot. I doubt if those tests measure math ability. I can recognize patterns very well, but higher math may as well be chicken scratch. But I am still in the Top 30% in math in the US. If there are 10 people in a room, I am better at math than seven of them. That means 70% of the population probably cannot do higher math at all. I passed the CBEST which was 1/2 math and 1/2 verbal. Many of the minorities (Blacks and Hispanics) cannot pass that test, so it is a controversial test. You had to get 70% to pass, and I got 90%.

  3. Ed

    I’m only going to comment on the remark on Mohamed Ali, mainly because I’ve seen this crop up repeatedly on alt right blogs.

    Mohamed Ali was drafted during the Vietnam War. He objected to fighting in a war, particularly that war, and was quite vocal about it. When he was first drafted, an IQ test (it may have been called something else) was part of the process to evaluate him for fitness, and he took it and flunked it. He tested as an idiot. It would have been really difficult for him to flunk the physical tests, for obvious reasons. Later on, the relevant government agencies ruled that there was no problem with conscripting idiots and Mohamed Ali would have to be drafted anyway, and he refused to serve outright and was imprisoned until the Supreme Court put a stop to the whole show.

    I don’t understand why the federal executive was so determined to conscript him. Generally in World War 2 the practice was to induct celebrity entertainers like DiMaggio and Reagan into the military but to assign them soft jobs essentially as entertainers.

    Anyway, I strongly suspect that Mohamed Ali flunked the IQ test deliberately and he really wasn’t an idiot. But I see bloggers and commentators repeatedly claiming that he was an idiot based on one IQ test that he had every reason to deliberately perform badly on.

    • Jason Y

      True, he could have possibly flunked it on purpose. It was common practice to sabatoge things so people wouldn’t have to fight.

    • 85 IQ is not idiot. It is just called Low Normal. Low Normal is 80-90. 15% of the population has IQ’s of 70-90. None of them are idiots. The 2% of IQ’s below 70 are indeed idiots or retards or whatever.

      85 IQ is the average US Black IQ. I never thought Ali was much or any smarter than your average Black person. The score rings true for me.

      Note: I taught Blacks in LA city schools for years.

      • Gay State Girl

        I think the average black IQ is closer to 90 now.

      • Matt

        I’m skeptical about the Ali and Elvis IQs. I think Ali was dyslexic before anyone knew what that was, and I suspect (without evidence) that something similar may have been true of Elvis. When you start talking about IQs that low, it manifests in everything, including motor skills. And wordplay of any kind? Fugedaboutit.

        • I have seen what I believe to be ~85 IQ Blacks and even Hispanics and Samoans engage in some of the most amazing rapping style wordplay you could ever imagine. Blacks are just good at that stuff. I think Blacks score higher than any other race on Verbal Memory.

          Bottom line is humans are pretty damn smart for a species. You would be amazed at what a lot of even “low IQ” people can do.

          I told you about Oglivy, the father of US advertising. ~95 IQ, measured many times.

          I know a guy with a 96 IQ who is extremely educated and sharp as a whip. He’s an intellectual. I know another guy with a 94 IQ who is quite smart and very well read.

          Your basic average human being is pretty damned smart, you would be surprised.

  4. Jason Y

    People hate the high IQ cause they associate with being a show-off or being a class brown-nose. They see it as another form of elitism. For instance, remember the scene on Good WIll Hunting where the math professor visits some janitors, states his academic rank and then asks them where the boy is, and then after he leaves they call him an asshole.

    Elvis has an IQ of 70? Well, no wonder he did all the hip shaking and whatnot. If his IQ was low, then possibly he had more in common with some southern rural blacks at the time then most white people. Anyhow though, he seems smart in movies, like the ones about Hawaii and Miami etc..

    • Jason Y

      Also IQ talk could give some indication your a Nazi etc.. and American people generally hate Nazis, KKK etc..

    • Jason Y

      At any rate, IQ is correlated very well with work performance, attendance, discipline, all the sort of things that lead to success on the job. I would hire a higher IQ person over a lower IQ one in a heartbeat. IQ is correlated with many things that will help you be successful and healthy in life.

      Not always, Even the average or high IQ can pick a bad college major, my case. Also mental stability etc.. is an issue and some higher IQ people are emotionally unstable because of environmental factors, bad environment, bad childhood etc..

    • Jason Y

      A high IQ could also be seen as effeminate, and no guy wants to been seen like that. They don’t want to look like the little schoolgirl teacher’s pet etc..

    • “Not always, Even the average or high IQ can pick a bad college major, my case. Also mental stability etc.. is an issue and some higher IQ people are emotionally unstable because of environmental factors, bad environment, bad childhood etc..”

      Do you have any idea what correlation means? All you’ve been using are anecdotes. A single predicator, meaning a measured factor all by itself, it is substantially higher than other measures.

      So of course when you ADD other factors as you said their would be a higher correlation.

      • Jason Y

        OK, generally, minus a bad enviornment, the higher IQ will excel. Possibly most higher IQ people are raised in a good environment, but there are some ancedotes who were not.

        I mean some guy raised in a trailer or government housing, yet having a high IQ, would be under pressure to conform to the low IQ environment he/she is surrounded by. In other words, they would try to act tough and all that, when in reality, being tough isn’t helping them academically.

        • Jason Y

          Jealousy is a major problem with high IQ. A lot of people will kill or harm you out of jealousy alone.

      • “OK, generally, minus a bad enviornment, the higher IQ will excel. Possibly most higher IQ people are raised in a good environment, but there are some ancedotes who were not.

        I mean some guy raised in a trailer or government housing, yet having a high IQ, would be under pressure to conform to the low IQ environment he/she is surrounded by. In other words, they would try to act tough and all that, when in reality, being tough isn’t helping them academically.”

        Possible.

      • Jason Y

        Of course, if you eliminate the trailer parks etc.. you might find more students would “come out of the closet” and try to be more academic than they would otherwise be. People might have a higher IQ then it would it seems at first glance.

        Take Cuba for instance. It had a lot of illiteracy in the countryside until the government made it top priority to educate the countryside.

        • Jason Y

          A lot of the problem with the American low IQ is the American culture itself, all the rap, the pressure to conform to being cool etc… Given that world, it’s hard to nurture an IQ.

        • Oneaboveall

          “A lot of the problem with the American low IQ is the American culture itself, all the rap, the pressure to conform to being cool etc… Given that world, it’s hard to nurture an IQ.”

          A few years back, I saw a comment on an NYT article that I think summed things up perfectly. Basically the point was that American culture sees education solely as a means to make money; you’re not supposed to have a curiosity about the wider world or want to learn about it. People are only supposed to be educated enough to get a good job and earn as much of the almighty dollar as possible. This is true from the ghettos to the gated communities. While I’ve paraphrased the quote, I think you all get the idea.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          translation;
          “America is prole as shit”.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Cuba… has an IQ lower than what it should be racially (it’s like what 25% Black by autosomal stuff, about 10% Amerind, the rest European, and it has an IQ in the mid 80s on White norms?)
          -Has it rose beyond everyone elses since the 1950s?
          It was probably lower than everyone elses then as well, probably more lower than it is now.

          BLAME
          1. The embargo
          2. RACE!. They hate these Blacks. One of the most sad stories I ever read was a WN praising Cuban Americans- for in one extended family he knew had a Cuban girl date a Black girl and the whole family called him “monkey” (“from Grandpas to little babies).
          Terrible people.
          My P grandparents were born there- probably Anglo-Cuban elite.
          BUT
          we are terrible people.
          Are uptiness isn’t working.

          I’ll just wait till November, if Herr Drumpfkin wins the Cuban-American vote, I might just have to kill myself.
          Even if Trump loses overall.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          our, oops.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I wouldn’t say I’m a self-hating European/European-American.
          BUT
          Cuban-Americans are generally terrible people.
          Their upitiness has gotten no where.
          Despite Mann Coulter banging every young Cuban male in South Florida, he still bashes the whole ethnicity.
          Poetic justice

        • Jason Y

          Most of your latino cultures hate blacks. In Latin America,you hate blacks unless you are black or part black. Even in the US, and especially where I live in Tennessee, at least some white people like blacks, thanks to media propoganda (Thank goodness for Jews.).

        • Jason Y

          Of course hating ghetto blacks in understandable. Hating ALL blacks via a racist generalization is not.

        • Jason Y

          Generally lower IQ white people and lower IQ anything hates blacks, unless they are black or a lower IQ type that would marry a black. Most of them have little cultural empathy and just call things on the spot.

        • Jason Y

          Isn’t it funny these lower IQ idiots will have a pitbull around young children, yet they hate blacks like they are the plague of mankind? 😆

        • Another William Playfair Web

          All true.
          These people are a threat to the existence of the human race.
          I’m slowly becoming
          ‘trans-ch!nk’

        • Transchink? LOL. Well that’s not so bad. I came out (at least to my immediate family) as a transnigger a while back. But I am still closeted as far as the rest of society goes. There’s a lot of discrimination against us transniggers, you know.

  5. Muhammad Ali seemed a lot smarter to people, because of his personality. He was an extreme extrovert, possessed with a surreal amount of self-confidence and belief, sociopathic like.

    He was a great, funny man.

  6. SHI

    High IQ is an invaluable gift that is a double-edged sword. While it wins you admirers everywhere you go, it also creates more enemies than you can handle. Having the extra smarts means people will depend on you to fix their problems. But they’ll also be talking shit behind your backs. Nothing pleases them more than taking you down a peg or two. Being smart, sharp-witted and a fast thinker amazes average people but that is the very reason you will be hated. Your very existence threatens their small, perfect universe. You prove them wrong every single time with a simple nudge of the shoulder or an askance gesture. Don’t think they can’t sense your disapproval every time you bite your lips. Not a great way to make friends, surely. High IQ people try to blend with others but just can’t stop themselves from acting smarter. This creates resentment and bitter feelings. You are able to read people’s motives before they have opened their mouths. You have little patience with ceremonies and cannot wait to jump straight to business.

    Having a high IQ creates problems in professional life as well. Since you’re not a simpleton, marketers cannot take advantage of you. You can see right through the rhetorical bullshit of self-serving politicians, religious leaders and bosses at the workplace. Most movies and television shows bore the hell out of you, and you cannot sustain interest in mundane conversations.

    The problem really becomes serious when you’re surrounded with people whose average IQ is 30 to 40 points lower than yours. This is truly happening in my case. I have 130 IQ which is fairly decent but by no means, at genius levels. However, this creates a wide gulf between me and the people that surround me. The average IQ of my townspeople is between 90 or 100. I have been thrown out of jobs for “not being able to get along with other team members”. I think they’re flaky and dull. They think I’m arrogant and a show-off. It’s a match made in hell. All my relationships with women tanked because I could not sustain them after a certain point. Really, the interest dies out because there’s nothing I stand to gain from relationships with someone dull, unoriginal and uninspiring. I have run into frequent confrontations and show-downs. You have to often apologize for your extra intelligence just in order to keep peace while trying not to offend others. Only reason I love living in my present town, I’m able to take advantage of the dim-bulbs and separate them from their money without breaking a sweat. It does prick my conscience a bit, but seriously, being high IQ makes you unemotional and get over anything you want as quickly as possible.

    If you’re a high IQ person, it’s very important to surround yourself with as many smart people as you can. Most high IQ people are really happy within the realm of academia and the stimulating environment offered by scientific and research institutions. If that requires a relocation, consider doing it. Being highly intelligent automatically makes you a better risk taker. You can navigate through the most challenging problems with unsurpassed aplomb and levelheadedness.

    • Jason Y

      A high IQ person may not like other high IQ people. He might consider them cocksuckers and dickheads, just like the low IQ people do. I mean, is it such a wrong way to feel? Some high IQ are really very arrogant, so why are we shocked with the reaction?

      • Jason Y

        I’m not impressed with the academia Iv’e seen. Some of them, especially the men, are very much the kind of people anyone would love to hate. dickhead in the first degree. People who are not friendly and it’s all not just cause they think socializing with a lower rank is a bad thing, which might be true, like say being too frank and friendly with a student etc..

  7. Another William Playfair Web

    Low neuroticism!
    Asians have that!
    Mongoloid power!
    Rubio 2016!

  8. George Mack

    I think that a big part of it is this:

    Many “gifts” are seen a special talents or hobbies, things that only “types” participate in. You don’t have to play sports unless you’re into that. Music skills matter if you were identified as talented in this area and take classes and have gigs or whatever. No one really cares about shortcomings here because they usually don’t matter unless you ended up at an event or were forced into these activities for social reasons. Even if we screw up, we laugh about it.

    That is, unless you care about your skills here, and they matter for something. Say you’re in band hoping for a scholarship, but you’re a 5th-chair flute. But Jessica is the best and gets all solos.

    But intelligence…Stupidity isn’t funny. We all have to engage in intellectual activity for at least 12 years of our life. In that time, we’re judged for our ability. A+. B-. F. “Great work!” “Work on your grammar.” “Congrats! You were accepted.” “Unfortunately, we had lots of applicants.” It matters. And there will always be those impressive ones who get what they want because of IQ. Medical school. Scholarships. All.

    Constantly awarded or constantly criticized. Yet you can hardly run away from it.

    If there are abilities everyone has to be judged on regularly, smarts is certainly one. Looks, another.

  9. “Basically the point was that American culture sees education solely as a means to make money; you’re not supposed to have a curiosity about the wider world or want to learn about it. People are only supposed to be educated enough to get a good job and earn as much of the almighty dollar as possible. This is true from the ghettos to the gated communities. While I’ve paraphrased the quote, I think you all get the idea.”

    Lol, You think that’s bad? Come to India. These are not schools…they’re factories churning out robots.

    • Jason Y

      I wouldn’t be so sure about the American thing. Schools force students to take tons of liberal arts courses, with the goal of producing well rounded, sensitive individuals.

    • Jason Y

      True, the brain can be trained, something white nationalists refuse to believe. There are many techniques like biofeedback among many others. Also all sorts of brain games exist like you’d find on Luminosity.com (not spamming just bringing up a point).

    • There are some serious changes that can be made during adolescence. So if you want to do something like this, do it in your teen years. Your IQ can go up or down ~10-15 points in your teen years. After that, the possibilities seem limited, but I operate on the idea that I am always trying to improve my IQ most of the time throughout the day. Whether or not I can improve my IQ, I would love to improve my crystallized IQ. Crystallized IQ indeed can rise up to middle age and even into old age. Fluid IQ on the other hand does not change much.

      Go ahead and try to make yourself as smart as you want to make yourself any time you want to, even most of the time if it suits you. That’s what I do. I do not think it matters if you can REALLY make yourself smarter IQ wise, but you can definitely put more ideas in your head and for me anyway, you can always find new patterns and ways of sorting out this and that in the universe.

      • Rowlii

        Thanks for your answers.

        So in your point of view, we can improve our IQ until a “genetic limit” (which is not clearly identified)…

        I also heard the genes expression can change under the influence of our way of life ? Is it true ?

        In this case, can we hope “micro-evolution” (generations after generations) with this phenomenon ?

        • A “eugenic” one? That depends on what population you’re talking about, and as for Blacks I’m agnostic towards such a phenomenon.

          Perhaps Muslim ones.

      • Jason Y

        Interesting. Change in teen years? That’s why teenagers get massive damage smoking pot, but it does nothing to adults.

        Of course, if ghetto blacks etc.. are stoned out on drugs, then they won’t meet thier max potential even for someone with a smaller brain.

        • Jason Y

          In reference to RobertLindsay saying the teen years are crucial to IQ.

        • Jason Y

          OK another reason to be tough on teenagers and don’t allow them to hang with cool crowds.

        • Jason Y

          It could be some stoner members of my family really aren’t smart despite having good genetics, possibly cause they damaged their brain via drugs and alcohol from as early as 13 or 14.

    • As far as studies show, it is malleable during adolescence and younger but past that it is solid, likely drifting to your actual genetic potential despite the previous presence of up lifters.

      BTW, those Brain games Jason Speak of are very misleading and only would have short terms effects since you’ll be stuck within a certain limit.

      You could improve in that ONE or few skills that it does improve but it’s not that beneficial of trade off realistically.

        • I heard that this was controversial in terms of it’s application to blacks in Africa, but if possible it would likely apply to very environmentally deprave people like Africans.

        • I meant that it’s rather controversial when applied to blacks in America, not Africa.

        • I believe US Blacks may have been influenced by epigenetics. There is no way whatsoever otherwise to get to that hard and fast 85 IQ they’ve got. The White genes only jack it up to ~78. That leaves 8 solid IQ points unaccounted for. I figure US Blacks may have experienced some epigenetic changes here in the US, perhaps mostly in the past 150 years.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Robert-
          I believe the 67 IQ study (where U.S. Whites are at 103) was done using the GRE.
          Surely some Black chum whose village school was blown up in Sierra Leone can’t compete fairly with a Japanese kid who goes to school 5.5 days a week…?

        • I believe the 67 IQ study (where U.S. Whites are at 103) was done using the GRE.

          Surely some Black chum whose village school was blown up in Sierra Leone can’t compete fairly with a Japanese kid who goes to school 5.5 days a week…?

          South African Black UNIVERSITY STUDENTS have only 85 IQ’s. Also university students usually have IQ’s about 15 points higher than the society average.

          Riddle me that, cuck.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          okay. That’s fair.
          Just two mitigating factors;
          1. South Africans have Bushmen ancestry (my all-knowing Nat Geo genome study I always reference says “52% Southern African”, and “47% Sub-Saharan African”
          2. 15 seems a little High….I have a source that says 938,000 Blacks in College in SA, and the age pyramid for SA on wiki shows about 4.7 million SAs between the ages of 20-24, and assuming about 80% are Pure Black,
          we get;
          3,760,000
          26% of the pop.
          so One in 4, are so privileged, and multiplying the educational achievement to IQ correlation by 0.65, we get about 7 points above the average.
          I don’t know where Rushton got “15” from….
          that’s not the case in the U.S.
          http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/iqtable.aspx

          So I’d say 78 is more accurate than 70.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          For Blacks of course.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          If relative to Whites, you have the CC data and IQ data, and use CC as a Y, you get an IQ of 78.
          Vice-versa, you get 96.
          I’m not sure if regression (0.4 correlation) for individual points, works both ways. If that’s the case, the Black IQ (genetic/or CC based) could be between those two numbers.
          Otherwise, barring other factors, it is one of those two numbers.
          Say, you just average them and get 87, and on U.S. norms the SA IQ is 78-3=75 (U.S. Whites have 103 IQ on those norms)
          you could say that Bushmen, if raised in first world would have an IQ of 75-(87-75)=63.
          Considering they’re at like 55, now, that does seem plausible.

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