The Limits of Hereditarianism

Ultra Cool,  a Brazilian commenter writes about this post: This post is 100% true and this is something I have personally observed, as a simple example, I noticed Whites from the underclass and slums are some 5 times more likely to be low functioning sociopaths than working class Whites, this difference can’t be pinned down to genes because these two groups of Whites are virtually the same in genetic terms.

Good environments, like those that teach altruism and self-control, can make genetically disadvantaged people behave much better than they normally would, bad environments, like those that glorify sociopathy and hedonism, can make genetically advantaged people behave much worse than they normally would.

Exactly, and it is here that hereditarianism falls flat on its face. What turned the uncivilized monsters in Africa into something that looked more or less like civilized US Whites? Culture. And if you see the way these Blacks used to behave in Africa, where to me they were barely even human (unless the natural state of man is utter savagery), and how Blacks transformed from the lowest of brutal savages to people who had at least the basic accouterments of a civilized Western culture, the change within a few hundred years was nothing short of breathtaking.

We all have potentials in us, potentials for savagery ranging down to the utter baseness of raw animals all the way up to possibly something near the Renaissance Men of a few centuries past or at least a raw approximation of that. These potentials are brought out or suppressed by…guess what?

Culture. Culture culture culture culture culture.

Culture is the key that opens or shuts the locks on our genes. And I do want you to think about that sentence.

170 Comments

Filed under Blacks, Culture, Race Realism, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, USA, Whites

170 responses to “The Limits of Hereditarianism

  1. Huuuuhhhhh……

    Okay, here’s what I’ll say. I can buy that social/environmental influences can affect a person in someway based on cultural customs or conditions the environment has on health.

    Basically, I believe their is a continuum based around how well someone can adapt to a culture or be stable within it’s own, so not black or white “savage” or “human being”.

    Basically, without any cultural influences a person would express their genetic behavior based on their personality whether they are violent, calm, neutral, smart, dumb, mentally stable, mentally unstable, individualist, communal, lazy, active, or any combination of them plus more traits.

    Now, what culture does in my opinion presents intra-group principles that give certain combination types the ability to be fit and or make an impression on others to follow.

    At some point though their will not only be those who don’t need culture for the same reasons or degree as others and those who will not adapt and will either die on their own, leave the community, require assistance, or will react (very likely) antisocially.

    When applied to human populations I think there are different standards and principles required to gain society wide stability and there would be distinct attributes that some will do better or worst on.

  2. jorge

    Do you think that all native populations from sub-Saharan Africa were “uncivilized monsters”?

  3. I do not know. Go read Negroes in Negroland and get back to me. It is a compendium of early anthropological reports by the first Whites to journey to Africa. What they found was quite appalling by my standards anyway. According to the reports, the Africans did not seem to differ a lot in their basic savagery.

    • jorge

      But what about sub-Saharan African empires/kingdoms of many centuries ago? Were built by savages?

      • Some where, some weren’t. Tribes of the Sahel were known to be very advance amongst Africans, however due to thingd like having on observation finer features like Eurasians and sometimes lighter hues of skin they were thought to be very mixed.

        Today that mainly goes for the Horn of Africa and some partolists, but on the most part ones like Hausa, mandingoes, etc. in admixture weren’t that much, below 10% for many actually.

        The ashanti, however, were indeed violent in the ways of sacrifices that put emphasis on pain and gore with Benin and Dahomey holding similar reputations.

        The Azande of the Congo, Calabar (SE nigeria), some western Bantus were also other hot spots but ones like the Yoruba generally weren’t.

        • jorge

          But even being cruel and violent a population can’t be “savage” (yes maybe “monstrous”, but this was very common to populations of all races in past centuries) if you built an “advanced” society like an empire/kingdom.

        • “But even being cruel and violent a population can’t be “savage” (yes maybe “monstrous”, but this was very common to populations of all races in past centuries) if you built an “advanced” society like an empire/kingdom.”

          The term you would be looking for would be barbarous. Keep in mind that these empire in terms of infrastructure weren’t advance for their time but as far as the people’s potential go they were on the path towards civilization but with set backs in character.

        • jorge

          But current elites are descendants of colonialists and some local allies. The same that in colonial times (were formed in those times).

          And in many African countries, many problems of extreme poverty are based in unequal distribution of lands (like in much part of the world by the way). At the same time, this make that many farmers leave countryside and go to cities/towns, where live in slums and form many new ones, so usually they ends living as marginals.

          Also, some European countries (well, really their governments) are the heads of African ones (obviously local elites of each country are their allies), in the same way that United States is “boss” of Central American and South American countries, the main ally of their elites.

          Besides, influence that there are inept governments (but usually are functional to elites) and societies less able to develop according to the rules of capitalism and globalization, but those has been imposed in a way that has hurt many people. The same happened throughout the third world. Consumerism have very negative effects.

        • “But current elites are descendants of colonialists and some local allies. The same that in colonial times (were formed in those times).” Proof of their influence ACROSS Africa?

          “And in many African countries, many problems of extreme poverty are based in unequal distribution of lands (like in much part of the world by the way). At the same time, this make that many farmers leave countryside and go to cities/towns, where live in slums and form many new ones, so usually they ends living as marginals.”

          “Also, some European countries (well, really their governments) are the heads of African ones (obviously local elites of each country are their allies), in the same way that United States is “boss” of Central American and South American countries, the main ally of their elites.”

          So THEY are the ones behind Boko Haram, Rwanda Genocide, etc. Also, why would they deliberately make the nations poor if they could get their resources faster had they used their influence to advance them AT LEAST to colonialism’s standards of stability?

          “Besides, influence that there are inept governments (but usually are functional to elites) and societies less able to develop according to the rules of capitalism and globalization, but those has been imposed in a way that has hurt many people. The same happened throughout the third world. Consumerism have very negative effects.”

          And with that one also find correlations in the evolution of human populations to explain why this does occur. This tying back to how some population can’t adapt to other’s standards.

        • jorge

          “Proof of their influence ACROSS Africa?

          So THEY are the ones behind Boko Haram, Rwanda Genocide, etc. Also, why would they deliberately make the nations poor if they could get their resources faster had they used their influence to advance them AT LEAST to colonialism’s standards of stability?

          And with that one also find correlations in the evolution of human populations to explain why this does occur. This tying back to how some population can’t adapt to other’s standards.”

          I’m talking about different local elites, not that there are some few that have influence across Africa. Each country has its own.

          Not, but there is much more than this in Africa. Obviously is not that “evil Europeans” are behind everything, but there were/are cases of this. For example European governments financing guerrilla groups some decades ago (for afraid that socialists take power), the sell of guns from the “first world”, control of local economies by big companies (supported by European governments), etc.

        • “I’m talking about different local elites, not that there are some few that have influence across Africa. Each country has its own.”

          That what I thought as well, which is my point. Explain how LOCAL elites managed to have more influence of a freed nation than Native executives?

          “Not, but there is much more than this in Africa. Obviously is not that “evil Europeans” are behind everything, but there were/are cases of this. For example European governments financing guerrilla groups some decades ago (for afraid that socialists take power), the sell of guns from the “first world”, control of local economies by big companies (supported by European governments), etc.”

          http://www.pmnewsnigeria.com/2016/03/24/buharis-apc-stealing-from-the-poor/

          Can you give sources and NOT minute examples of the past to prove that that cases that you are describing out weighs stuff like this? Also That doesn’t explain the situations that I have described such as local terrorism, poor police enforcement, disease, etc.

          Explain how small local elites have managed to create nationwide consequences for Africa countries in a multitude of issues.

        • jorge

          Uuumm.. the opening line says that this was a NEW struggle in Africa. In other words, this is the behavior of a symptom rather than a root problem.

          Also, quotes

          “In 2010, the ZimOnline news service reported that about 2,200 black Zimbabweans belonging to the elite of the country control almost 40 percent of the 14 million hectares of land confiscated from white farmers, and that President Robert Mugabe and his family have 14 farms with an area of 16,000 hectares, at least.”

          “Our ancestors… protested when the colonialists seized their land more than one century ago, but today the history repeats itself, as our own political leaders and fellow rich are looting the land”: Claris Madhuku.

          “The rich and the powerful, as well as corrupt politicians, take advantage of the demand for land and… tend to be distributed among them urban land for resale at exorbitant prices at the expense of the poor,” said.
          The activist Owen Dliwayo.

          “A survey conducted by the National Union of farmers in Mozambique in 2014 revealed that the country produced an appropriation of lands to colonial style, since companies with political ties confiscated the farmers hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland.”

          “The Government of Mozambique is known to put themselves on the side of the foreign investors, who now occupy large tracts of land for their own use, while local farmers lose yours, that are his birthright,” said Kingston Nyakurukwa, an independent Zimbabwean Economist.

          So this is clearly spawned predominately by Elite Greed that were specified as Black who sided with companies rather than the people’s welfare.”

          Forget race.

          Many politicians are from elites, and elites always were allies of colonialists, in fact, became elites thanks to colonialism. So companies finance politicians from this sector because protect their interests, and vice versa is the same.

          Also exist internal conflicts (between different ethnic groups, or religious groups, etc.) who are magnified by foreign governments (traditionally Europeans but also Americans and, since some time, Chineses) and transnational companies. Who do you think that get money and firearms to this groups that are poor? Each government/company support some group that will protect their interests. Leaders of those groups known very well this (and will be very well rewarded if they succeed), while privates think that are fighting for their people. Also participate many mercenaries.

          https://pmundial.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/el-mapa-guerrillero-africano/

          Some European governments have implicance here because they controlled this lands many years before but companies from their countries continued functioning after independences.

          So, many conflicts are invented or, at least, potentiated by transnational companies/foreign governments to have control of resources, economies or politics of those countries.

        • “Forget race.

          Many politicians are from elites, and elites always were allies of colonialists, in fact, became elites thanks to colonialism. So companies finance politicians from this sector because protect their interests, and vice versa is the same.”

          That was STILL the decision of the government regardless.

          “Also exist internal conflicts (between different ethnic groups, or religious groups, etc.) who are magnified by foreign governments (traditionally Europeans but also Americans and, since some time, Chineses) and transnational companies. Who do you think that get money and firearms to this groups that are poor? Each government/company support some group that will protect their interests. Leaders of those groups known very well this (and will be very well rewarded if they succeed), while privates think that are fighting for their people. Also participate many mercenaries.

          https://pmundial.wordpress.com/2008/11/09/el-mapa-guerrillero-africano/)

          (Some European governments have implicance here because they controlled this lands many years before but companies from their countries continued functioning after independences.

          So, many conflicts are invented or, at least, potentiated by transnational companies/foreign governments to have control of resources, economies or politics of those countries..)”

          And again, the government does nothing about this. The reason i presented those quotes wasn’t just to point out that they were black, my point was that regardless of what you show it CAN STILL be tied back towards Africans themselves.

          These ethnic groups have been competing for years even before colonialism in trade

          https://books.google.com/books?id=Ck87AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA339&lpg=PA339&dq=eboes+industrious&source=bl&ots=J2MSr1mLzm&sig=qLzd3ZjLrpz54gvKbUlUffxJyzE&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwisvpDE2LbKAhVHu4MKHT_eBI44ChDoAQgbMAA#v=snippet&q=eboe&f=false

          https://www.academia.edu/3651357/This_Horrid_Hole_-_Bonny_in_18th_Century

          So while they may’ve been elevated by company influence it was still a weakness they had to begin with as well as leaders in it for themselves. example Obi of Aboh. p. 412

          https://books.google.com/books?id=94bQAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA405&lpg=PA405&dq=nyffe+yarribas&source=bl&ots=C3uB6oOCs9&sig=BlHq2oOv8hXnnu2of03AxonPuvI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiL8raO9MfKAhUmuoMKHcMwD2wQ6AEIHjAA#v=onepage&q=obie&f=false

          Also, many of these elites descended from elites of the past as well, usually it was only the absolute head that was exiled/replaced.

          And in all this, you STILL have rural leaders (guerrilla leaders) outside of “elites” who organized these group from the start and are merely supported by companies.

          What this shows is that internal weaknesses already existed in African nations, also 3 out of the five represented African leaders given as examples of icons in decolonization were of elite background either as chief lineage or of profession. In other words simple colonial ties don’t explain it their greed for resources alone.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Decolonisation_of_Africa

          The 2nd link you gave me has two things to be noticed.

          1.) While modern ethncities are different from precolonial ones, their still existed competition. Also Tutusi and Hutus are still distinct genetically.
          http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/2011/08/tutsi-differ-genetically-from-the-hutu/#.V0_JcxMrLnA

          2.) “Do you use the term “buying” symbolically or literally? – Half and half. On the one hand, they are investing. Furthermore, they are generating leeway with African political elites.” And as I noted these elites likely descended from lineages already their but likely from a different individual.

          As for the third

          1.) “Many people do not clear that the major players in the current process of land grabbing for overseas food production are not countries or governments but corporations. Too much attention is given to the participation of States, such as Saudi Arabia, China or South Korea. The reality is that while governments are facilitating the deals, private companies gain control of the land. And their interests are simply not the same as those of governments.

          Take an example. In August 2009, the Mauritian government, through the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, managed long – term lease 20,000 hectares of good farmland in Mozambique where rice for the Mauritian market. It is a dislocation of agricultural production, but it is not the government of Mauritius, on behalf of the Mauritian people, who will exploit the land and ship the rice to the country. The Ministry of Agro Industry immediately sub – leased the land to two corporations: one of Singapore (eager to develop markets for their patented seeds of hybrid rice in Africa) and Swaziland (specializing in livestock production, and involved in biofuels in southern Africa).”

          And exactly where is the government on board of counteracting this if they weren’t involved? It says that it wasn’t the government taking part in this, though it is likely to assume that this info should correspond with the details of the last one, in which government is paid off.

        • I’ve made a response earlier but it didn’t go through, but I’ll just summarize it.

          None of you’re sources stated where modern elites originated. Local Government were often selected from previous elite families from precolonial time. All the second one said that it was the case for the Tutis, despite the fact that Hutu and Tutsi classes weren’t restraint by ethnic group.

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tutsi

          2nd link- While modern tribes are modified from precolonial counterparts in terms of identification, the Tutsi and Hutu analogy doesn’t stand the genetic tests.
          http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/crux/2011/10/16/the-tutsis-and-hutus-are-genetically-different-does-that-matter/#.V0_nvTLmpYc

          Given how Tutsi still have a traceable distinction, why not would that be the case with other groups?

          The 2nd mentions Payment to persuade Government, thus governrment bribes.
          Contradiction with third link. It starts of as saying that the government doesn’t steal from poor yet stories like the first one you gave clearly stated the opposite with actual statistics
          If what you say about Guerrilla leader is true then that makes things worst because they are not typically elites yet still lead with greed and own self interest on a lower rank than Local government.

        • jorge

          “I’ve made a response earlier but it didn’t go through, but I’ll just summarize it.

          None of you’re sources stated where modern elites originated. Local Government were often selected from previous elite families from precolonial time. All the second one said that it was the case for the Tutis, despite the fact that Hutu and Tutsi classes weren’t restraint by ethnic group.

          2nd link- While modern tribes are modified from precolonial counterparts in terms of identification, the Tutsi and Hutu analogy doesn’t stand the genetic tests.

          Given how Tutsi still have a traceable distinction, why not would that be the case with other groups?

          The 2nd mentions Payment to persuade Government, thus governrment bribes.
          Contradiction with third link. It starts of as saying that the government doesn’t steal from poor yet stories like the first one you gave clearly stated the opposite with actual statistics
          If what you say about Guerrilla leader is true then that makes things worst because they are not typically elites yet still lead with greed and own self interest on a lower rank than Local government.”

          Is not necessary have been raised into a elite family to govern for it. By the wat, is easier govern for it that against it. And making a parallelism with Latin America, there are many politicians that were raised in working class families and, once in power, act against their original social class (being hard neoliberals for example)…

          Also is not necessary being part of elite to act with greed (by the way, many people start to be greedy when have some important leading position), wich is like a epidemic disease in many poor countries, like here in Latin America, where in some places it was installed a “culture” of “climbing” at any cost, no matter who is prejudiced. This affects especially many poor people, that sometimes act desperate and without moral (in different situations) because is like a form to escape from poverty, especially in cities, where consumerism is strong and there is a “fast way” of living, while poor people from rural areas (who is much poorer) or towns and small cities usually have more values. Equally, there are tons of exceptions in both cases.

          Probably there are many guerrilla leaders that simply are ignorant and can be cheated easily, but many others can be very greedy, if not from beginning, when start to have some power.

          In fact, many socialist/communist guerrilla leaders were very corrupt and greedy. When Che Guevara went to Congo to reunite with leftist guerrillas, felt very disapointed when saw attitude of some leaders, who did not care about their soldiers (acting as a pattern that feels superior to its employees) or the whole movement, and simply were having sex with many women (taking advantage of their leader position) and drinking whisky.

        • “Is not necessary have been raised into a elite family to govern for it. By the wat, is easier govern for it that against it. And making a parallelism with Latin America, there are many politicians that were raised in working class families and, once in power, act against their original social class (being hard neoliberals for example)…”

          That basically has not effect on my previous points.

          “Also is not necessary being part of elite to act with greed (by the way, many people start to be greedy when have some important leading position), wich is like a epidemic disease in many poor countries, like here in Latin America, where in some places it was installed a “culture” of “climbing” at any cost, no matter who is prejudiced. This affects especially many poor people, that sometimes act desperate and without moral (in different situations) because is like a form to escape from poverty, especially in cities, where consumerism is strong and there is a “fast way” of living, while poor people from rural areas (who is much poorer) or towns and small cities usually have more values. Equally, there are tons of exceptions in both cases.”

          Again not my point. What I;m trying to point out is how inadequate leadership, either through someone with resources like the elite or guerrilla leaders typivally have their own greed, compounding the problem.

          “Probably there are many guerrilla leaders that simply are ignorant and can be cheated easily, but many others can be very greedy, if not from beginning, when start to have some power.”

          Speculation

          ?In fact, many socialist/communist guerrilla leaders were very corrupt and greedy. When Che Guevara went to Congo to reunite with leftist guerrillas, felt very disapointed when saw attitude of some leaders, who did not care about their soldiers (acting as a pattern that feels superior to its employees) or the whole movement, and simply were having sex with many women (taking advantage of their leader position) and drinking whisky.”

          Again furthers my point of how the leadership in these countries adds to it’s own disaster.

      • On the most part, tribes very close to the coast were the most savage, the ones more inland were typically either considered merely barbaric or semi-civilized.

        However, as today shows, many today have a capacity towards violence but i do believe it varies on ethnic groups.

        • jorge

          My point is that it is ignorant to consider savages to all native peoples of sub-Saharan Africa.

        • “My point is that it is ignorant to consider savages to all native peoples of sub-Saharan Africa.”

          All I did was pointed out the reputations of the empires along with some exceptions.

          I even pointed out some fallacies of the older thinking in regards to admixture, so I didn’t truly believe that to start with.

        • jorge

          “The term you would be looking for would be barbarous. Keep in mind that these empire in terms of infrastructure weren’t advance for their time but as far as the people’s potential go they were on the path towards civilization but with set backs in character.”

          I said that were relatively advanced social organizations, not that had more technology than peoples from other parts of the world or something like this. So, they weren’t “savages”.

        • “I said that were relatively advanced social organizations, not that had more technology than peoples from other parts of the world or something like this. So, they weren’t “savages”.”

          regardless the point is less on material culture and more towards behavior.

        • jorge

          “regardless the point is less on material culture and more towards behavior.”

          Well, in this case there were many “savages” around the world at those times, not only blacks.

        • “Well, in this case there were many “savages” around the world at those times, not only blacks.”

          Cool, now lets be specific in how recent savagery prevailed on average in these regions prior to european contact, their modern crimes rates now, and who has the highest.

        • “I said that were relatively advanced social organizations, not that had more technology than peoples from other parts of the world or something like this. So, they weren’t “savages”.”

          I was also referring to their social organization as well. They had, for there circumstances, a semblance to civilized culture. Also “infrastructure” doesn’t deal exclusively with technology, it also deals with organization as well.

          “in·fra·struc·ture
          ˈinfrəˌstrək(t)SHər/
          noun
          the basic physical and organizational structures and facilities (e.g., buildings, roads, and power supplies) needed for the operation of a society or enterprise.”

          Mainly referring towards establishments of education, economy, etc.

          Also, I’m quite familiar with this topic before I even came to this Blog.

          https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/a-look-at-precontact-igbo-society/

        • jorge

          If they had this kind of social organization, they were far from being “savages”. You can be brutal, like Europeans/descendants of Europeans torturing blacks and Amerindians (until 19th century), without being “savage”.

        • “If they had this kind of social organization, they were far from being “savages”. You can be brutal, like Europeans/descendants of Europeans torturing blacks and Amerindians (until 19th century), without being “savage”.”

          …..? Okay, While I can’t speak much in the way Of South America , Blacks of North America weren’t tortured widespread throughout their slavery. Yes, their were cases of abuse but most actually weren’t.

          Second, it’s one thing to be cruel towards another group but the thing with these empire was tyranny towards it’s own population (Dahomey, Ashanti, Benin) either through religion and blood sacrifices or government.

        • BTW, I’m also speak of generally social stability.

          You could point out this and that about Europe in the past but Europe has grown, Africa, outside of technology and economy, only made as much progress as it did through colonial influence.

        • jorge

          Well, maybe there are exaggerations, but I don’t know how many of those stories of lashes and burning of slaves are lies. Even after slavery there were attacks of civil white people against blacks.

          I did not put those examples for make whites look evil or something like this, I put it to show examples of brutality into “non-savage” peoples.

          I don’t know of sacrifices into this nations (Dahomey, Ashanti, etc.). In empire of Mexicas for example, foreigners were who were used for sacrifices (persons from other indigenous peoples).

          And I never said that you said that sub-Saharan Africans were savages (I re-read a comment yours where you apparently infer this). Was Robert who referred to them as “uncivilized monsters”.

          Colonialism bequeathed some “good” Western values, but also many bad things, including posterior globalization, that made many people poorer than their parents/grandparents. In the last decades there were much more inherited extreme poverty than in the past.

        • “Well, maybe there are exaggerations, but I don’t know how many of those stories of lashes and burning of slaves are lies. Even after slavery there were attacks of civil white people against blacks.”

          I never said they were lies, what I meant was what you said exaggerations.

          “I did not put those examples for make whites look evil or something like this, I put it to show examples of brutality into “non-savage” peoples.”

          Still, different scenerios. In other words, the Cruelty was embodied wider in the Afican populations I spoke of.

          “I don’t know of sacrifices into this nations (Dahomey, Ashanti, etc.). In empire of Mexicas for example, foreigners were who were used for sacrifices (persons from other indigenous peoples).”

          The differences were that these human sacrifices were often done to display power, the most gruesome being the execution of slaves when a chiefs died. The slaves died in immense multitude in one event.

          “And I never said that you said that sub-Saharan Africans were savages (I re-read a comment yours where you apparently infer this). Was Robert who referred to them as “uncivilized monsters”.”

          He told me that the book was politically biased over e-mails. Not that the accounts were false, but that they didn’t display all of the traits of Native Blacks. Still, acts like those were more widespread than the examples of slaves you gave. If not, they are now.

          “Colonialism bequeathed some “good” Western values, but also many bad things, including posterior globalization, that made many people poorer than their parents/grandparents. In the last decades there were much more inherited extreme poverty than in the past.”

          …..You do know most African nations were free from colonialism for a decent while, right?

          Also, if they are becoming “poorer and poorer” as time goes forward, you do know this is occurring after their freedom? So how can colonialism be blamed for that?

        • jorge

          “Can you give sources and NOT minute examples of the past to prove that that cases that you are describing out weighs stuff like this? Also That doesn’t explain the situations that I have described such as local terrorism, poor police enforcement, disease, etc.

          Explain how small local elites have managed to create nationwide consequences for Africa countries in a multitude of issues.”

          I’m talking about poverty in general.

          I have some sources in Spanish, you have to give me some time to search sources in English with concrete examples.

          I’m talking about how many companies control big part of African economies. And governments usually are allies of them. Local elites are who control media, politics and local companies. At the same time, they are “employees” of international financial system, transnational companies and governments of first world countries. It’s like here (Latin America) but worst.

          But this don’t mean that there aren’t governments nationalist or socialist, but maybe very inept.

        • “I’m talking about poverty in general.

          I have some sources in Spanish, you have to give me some time to search sources in English with concrete examples.

          I’m talking about how many companies control big part of African economies. And governments usually are allies of them. Local elites are who control media, politics and local companies. At the same time, they are “employees” of international financial system, transnational companies and governments of first world countries. It’s like here (Latin America) but worst.

          But this don’t mean that there aren’t governments nationalist or socialist, but maybe very inept.”

          Okay, i’m just going to stop you at Government. I’ve already gave you an example of complaints and inadequate actions done by their own government, the ones who would be allies with these companies.

          Also with African countries their is AID misused by the Government as well, stealing of oil, etc.

          http://chegepublishing.net/how-crude-oil-is-stolen/

          My point is why you would point towards loose ties with colonialist influence RATHER than the fault of the government in which many backed ethnic civil war/ genocide.

          I don’t even care that you are pointing towards environmental explanations, what I find ludicrous is you blatantly giving these people lack of accountability for their incompetence.

        • jorge

          “Okay, i’m just going to stop you at Government. I’ve already gave you an example of complaints and inadequate actions done by their own government, the ones who would be allies with these companies.

          Also with African countries their is AID misused by the Government as well, stealing of oil, etc.

          My point is why you would point towards loose ties with colonialist influence RATHER than the fault of the government in which many backed ethnic civil war/ genocide.

          I don’t even care that you are pointing towards environmental explanations, what I find ludicrous is you blatantly giving these people lack of accountability for their incompetence.”

          I never said that African governments were good. I said that who control economies of many countries are big companies, and governments don’t make any attempt to stop this, in fact, they responds to it, because they function like local managers. Like here, in many countries elites are allies of foreigner governments, transnational companies and obviously international financial system (that, at the end, rule the world).

          Also I did not said that without foreign influence, African countries will be better, because it can’t be know. But that transnational companies and some first world countries fuck them it’s true.

          Landowners (foreigners or from local elites) have increasingly more land for them, forcing peasants to work for them in conditions of semi-slavery. This makes that poverty rates increase, that’s why, in many countries, people live worst than in past decades.

          Like United States governments supported right wing dictatorships in Latin America, something similar happened in Africa, and sometimes were European governments who supported some guerrilla groups (some with many mercenaries into it) and dictatorships.

          So is not only people’s incompetence, is that powerful evil motherfuckers oppress them like shit. Is not the same live in humble conditions than in extreme poverty.

          It’s ridiculous not see the role of some first world governments and transnational companies in African situation.

          But don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying that their leaders have not any responsability, but, like in great part of third world, countries are ruled by elites that go against interests of their own people. If there are some politicians that want to change this, have to go against media (whose owners are part of elites too), other politicians and powerful businessmen. That’s why some opt by armed way, then usually things go worst.

          I’m giving a very general view, each country have it particular situation. But also you gave a general view talking about genocide, that happened in some particular conflicts, like in Rwanda.

        • “I never said that African governments were good. I said that who control economies of many countries are big companies, and governments don’t make any attempt to stop this.” They were the ones who let them in to begin with.

          in fact, they responds to it, because they function like local managers. Like here, in many countries elites are allies of foreigner governments, transnational companies and obviously international financial system (that, at the end, rule the world).”

          Also I did not said that without foreign influence, African countries will be better, because it can’t be know. But that transnational companies and some first world countries fuck them it’s true.”
          The point of this thread was regarding the modern state of African nations as a whole and give so much focus on Europeans rather than Africans themselves even though you admit that they don’t respond to this.

          Landowners (foreigners or from local elites) have increasingly more land for them, forcing peasants to work for them in conditions of semi-slavery. This makes that poverty rates increase, that’s why, in many countries, people live worst than in past decades.

          Evidence?

          Like United States governments supported right wing dictatorships in Latin America, something similar happened in Africa, and sometimes were European governments who supported some guerrilla groups (some with many mercenaries into it) and dictatorships.

          Again, evidence that this was widespread across Africa?

          So is not only people’s incompetence, is that powerful evil motherfuckers oppress them like shit. Is not the same live in humble conditions than in extreme poverty.

          It’s ridiculous not see the role of some first world governments and transnational companies in African situation.

          But don’t misunderstand me, I’m not saying that their leaders have not any responsability, but, like in great part of third world, countries are ruled by elites that go against interests of their own people. If there are some politicians that want to change this, have to go against media (whose owners are part of elites too), other politicians and powerful businessmen. That’s why some opt by armed way, then usually things go worst.

          I’m giving a very general view, each country have it particular situation. But also you gave a general view talking about genocide, that happened in some particular conflicts, like in Rwanda.”

          The issue here is that regardless of what role Companies have, outisde of economy and ties to said consequences the Africans themselves, such as in the Rwanda Genocide and Civil wars of many, have been involved in their own forms of mayhem showing little sense of national organization and stability and without your spanish source that you spoke of what you’re saying is just speculation. Reading from actual socialist sites it’s African variant fell onto itself and was not overthrown.

          https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2005/05/exch-m19.html

        • jorge

          “They were the ones who let them in to begin with.

          Evidence?

          Again, evidence that this was widespread across Africa?

          The issue here is that regardless of what role Companies have, outisde of economy and ties to said consequences the Africans themselves, such as in the Rwanda Genocide and Civil wars of many, have been involved in their own forms of mayhem showing little sense of national organization and stability and without your spanish source that you spoke of what you’re saying is just speculation. Reading from actual socialist sites it’s African variant fell onto itself and was not overthrown.”

          Read about Jonas Savimbi and UNITA (supported by racist South African governments of apartheid times and PIDE from Portugal), who fought against MPLA even when this party won democratic elections.

          Or read about case of Lumumba…

          In cases like those are examples of groups supported for European governments.

          And local elites many times were in power since colonial times (that lasted until mid 20th century). It did not become elites after independences.

          Also big companies were there and had power since colonial times, so is not that always were corrupt local governments who give it power and allowed it control their economies. In fact, precisely for this is that European governments were interested in supporting elites and armed groups that fought against parties or politicians that went against business of this companies in African lands.

          About peasants loosing lands in Africa…

          http://www.ipsnoticias.net/2015/04/empresas-extranjeras-arrebatan-las-tierras-a-los-pobres-en-africa/

          Again, this don’t means that without this, Africa will be a paradise. But it’s clear that make situation even worst.

        • Jorge, companies don’t just waltz into Third World counties. Some Authority would have to let them in though really it’s not that much of an option when they couldn’t make as adequate companies themselves without foreign assistance but that is just one of many examples of their incompetence if they didn’t at least been proactive against shady stuff that you are suggesting.

          The issue here is that regardless of what role Companies have, outisde of economy and ties to said consequences the Africans themselves, such as in the Rwanda Genocide and Civil wars of many, have been involved in their own forms of mayhem showing little sense of national organization and stability and without your spanish source that you spoke of what you’re saying is just speculation. Reading from actual socialist sites it’s African variant fell onto itself and was not overthrown.”

          “Read about Jonas Savimbi and UNITA (supported by racist South African governments of apartheid times and PIDE from Portugal), who fought against MPLA even when this party won democratic elections.

          Or read about case of Lumumba…

          In cases like those are examples of groups supported for European governments.”

          Hint, ACROSS Africa not just two examples. On the most part, African Socialism fell upon itself as my linked said.

          “And local elites many times were in power since colonial times (that lasted until mid 20th century). It did not become elites after independences.”

          But do you know whether or not the organization of colonial power was/is the same through Africa or just in certain examples.

          “Also big companies were there and had power since colonial times, so is not that always were corrupt local governments who give it power and allowed it control their economies. In fact, precisely for this is that European governments were interested in supporting elites and armed groups that fought against parties or politicians that went against business of this companies in African lands.”

          About peasants loosing lands in Africa…

          Again, this don’t means that without this, Africa will be a paradise. But it’s clear that make situation even worst.”

          Uuumm.. the opening line says that this was a NEW struggle in Africa. In other words, this is the behavior of a symptom rather than a root problem.

          Also, quotes

          “In 2010, the ZimOnline news service reported that about 2,200 black Zimbabweans belonging to the elite of the country control almost 40 percent of the 14 million hectares of land confiscated from white farmers, and that President Robert Mugabe and his family have 14 farms with an area of 16,000 hectares, at least.”

          “Our ancestors… protested when the colonialists seized their land more than one century ago, but today the history repeats itself, as our own political leaders and fellow rich are looting the land”: Claris Madhuku.

          “The rich and the powerful, as well as corrupt politicians, take advantage of the demand for land and… tend to be distributed among them urban land for resale at exorbitant prices at the expense of the poor,” said.
          The activist Owen Dliwayo.

          “A survey conducted by the National Union of farmers in Mozambique in 2014 revealed that the country produced an appropriation of lands to colonial style, since companies with political ties confiscated the farmers hundreds of thousands of hectares of farmland.”

          “The Government of Mozambique is known to put themselves on the side of the foreign investors, who now occupy large tracts of land for their own use, while local farmers lose yours, that are his birthright,” said Kingston Nyakurukwa, an independent Zimbabwean Economist.

          So this is clearly spawned predominately by Elite Greed that were specified as Black who sided with companies rather than the people’s welfare.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          phil- do you know much about/ have an opinion about increasing East Asian business interests in China- which could speculatively lead to colonization (Mugabe hinted at this, but spun in words of praise not to get in trouble- or perhaps I am overestimating him🙂 );
          http://qz.com/565860/robert-mugabe-china-is-doing-everything-that-africas-colonizers-should-have-done/

        • “phil- do you know much about/ have an opinion about increasing East Asian business interests in China- which could speculatively lead to colonization (Mugabe hinted at this, but spun in words of praise not to get in trouble- or perhaps I am overestimating him:) ”

          I guess it’s sort of more likely early trade rather than colonialism at this point, due to cooperation with the native leaders with resources, but I likely see the course of this becoming an issue when china gains too much influence in Africa.

          However, I suspect it would be purely in the economic sense rather than a political sense, they can barely control the Africans they have in Guangzhou from what I heard let alone Africa.

          an African a few months back pointed at Madagascar being the fastest growing in immigrants from china growing.

        • jorge

          “That basically has not effect on my previous points.

          Again not my point. What I;m trying to point out is how inadequate leadership, either through someone with resources like the elite or guerrilla leaders typivally have their own greed, compounding the problem.

          Speculation

          Again furthers my point of how the leadership in these countries adds to it’s own disaster.”

          But you ignore completely the role of some foreign governments and transnational companies.

        • “But you ignore completely the role of some foreign governments and transnational companies.”

          If we are going to apply these concepts to Africa, one needs to disambiguate “governments” and “companies”.

          Influence of foriegn governments isn’t monolithic in Africa with most of your examples using such most of their examples of this in Southern Africa, among the most Western influenced area in the continent. While this explanation could be used for certain nation one would have to require actual widespread data to understand it’s function across the whole region.

          Second, companies. While more widespread, it’s been pointed out in most of you’re sources they work in cooperation with elites and the government there and none of you’re sources say, with elites in Africa generally, that they were setted up by the colonial officials.

        • Again another comment didn’t get through so I’ll summarize.

          1.) The Governemnt were the ones that made arranegment with the companies you talked about as well as causing chaos when they were given aid which is also tied in it’s failure to adaot to socialism.

          https://fee.org/articles/the-sorry-record-of-foreign-aid-in-africa/

          2.) outside of merely ethnic tension, there exist types that spawn from superstition

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Witchcraft_accusations_against_children_in_Africa

          https://www.naij.com/738120-special-report-albinism-africa-murder-discriminate.html

          Therefore it is questionable to attribute much of ethnic tension to foreign interaction alone.

          3.) You’re sources and your words support the concept of both government and guerrilla groups’ intentions shows thorough motivations by a multitude of leaderships in the country itself. Thus they are not a cause, but a tool for such leaders to use to maintain their position in power.

          I don’t deny that companies do horrible things and can’t be accounted for, but I’m looking at the situation and vices as a whole in Africa and such as my aid example in which the money was given for good the Government was accountable.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        He did selectively take from the accounts.

        I have heard, in ‘indigenous’ areas/ with those types, of Cannibalism, one of particular notability, General “Buck Naked” in Liberia, who would eat portions of slain/captured generals on the opposing side during the First (and possibly second) Liberian Civil War(s).
        Liberia is rare in that, it was not really colonized by Whites, and has many areas that chose to remain separate from the cruel Americo-Liberians (who enslaved many) and kept many customs.
        Animist faiths have a lot to do with the cannibalism. I doubt that the Muslims in the Gambia practiced it, or the more advanced Yoruba/Ibo people did either.

        I think the people we lived in the swampy Jungle lands had stunted development, they did develop agriculture, according to Wikipedia, until near the year 1000. Phil also says the Ashantis were savage like, but I do not know much about them.
        So basically, Cannabilism was probably only practiced in the present day nations of Sierra Leone, Liberia, Ivory Coast, and possibly Ghana.
        The main British outposts in the region were in Sierra Leone, and Ghana
        The main French outposts were in present day Senegal,
        while the Portuguese were in Guinea-Bissau, Angola, and Mozambique.

        So from what the British saw, it would appear all of these people were cannibal savages, but not all really were (the Portuguese have far more generous accounts of such)
        I mean were the San cannibals? What about the Bantu-San mixes in South Africa?
        The San seem like very nice people.
        I don’t think it’s an IQ thing.

        Tried to keep the formatting acceptable, but I do know a lot about Sub-Saharan History (of course not as much as Phil🙂 ) and I wanted to share.

        • Ashantis were Barbarous, the difference being in their material culture being above savage.

          Sans are not aggressive like blacks, but do have primitive vices.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I take it the Yorubas and Igbos weren’t as “savage”?
          As well as the muslims in present day Gambia and Senegal?

        • Igboes are hard to tell.

          The ones of the kingdom of Aboh were barbarous (worst than Ashantis though). Onitsha ones were somewhat nicer than Ashantis but with some barbaric tendencies, Awka ones from what I could tell were as worst pushy merchants that do human sacrifices every now and then. The Aro, though the biggest of Igbo slave traders, were like on the upper end of barbaric in how they were received but I haven’t read anything indepth by European travelers yet as i did with other groups.

          The Yoruba people are again various but much more uniform in their general appeal. Ife people were the best recieved, being more along the lines of “semi-civilized” than “barabric”. The Oyo people, the ones that were historically referred to as Yoruba, were a bit lower tier than Ife but still decent. One tribe I heard of called the Oza were called rather lazy.

          Aside from the warlike Oyo, few I could remember were as bad as the ashantis except for Benin, which is a diverged Yoruba subgroup near the coast and likely the most advance of coastal people.

          The Igala are a weird branch that have close connection with the Yoruba, and from what i read I think they are also mixed with central nigerians such as the Idoma but I check again.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      Just looked it up. Hinton Helper wrote it?
      Fascinating.
      The ‘I hate negroes just as much as the next guy, but slavery is harming the cracker’ guy (late 1850s).

      • Yes, all of the ethnographic data in there should be clean. Hinton took all of that from legitimate ethnographic data from the first White explorers in the region. The thing is that that book is biased. Hinton went through and he took out all of the bad parts where the explorers were talking about the bad things about these Africans. I have not read the ethnographic literature he used, but I assume that these explorers must have had some good things to say about these Africans.

        The liberals on this site said, “All those early explorers were racist Whites who hated Blacks, so they made up all that bad stuff about those wonderful African Miss Manners type people. The Africans were really all choir boys and Southern belles but evil White European scum made up evil lies about these glorious ebony folks just to be evil and shit.”

        They rejected ALL of the early ethnographic work in Africa on the basis “evil White racism.”

        I swear, sometimes liberals are just so retarded. Liberals are almost as retarded as White nationalists, but I guess they’re less evil. I GUESS. Personally, I hate both of them. I would love to line the PC and SJW people up against the wall and start shooting them. That’s how much hate I feel for those people. I actually like White nationalists better than Cultural Left types. At least White nationalists are pretty nice to me. Sure they hate some people, but they don’t hate me. I figure that’s a beef between them and the folks they hate, and just leave me out of it.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Did he use Portuguese, British or French (or any combination)’s work?
          The British set up slaving camps in present day Sierra Leone and Ghana, which were less advanced than say, the Muslim regions in the Gambia or the Yoruba and Igbos.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          The Tribal/rural regions of Liberia still apparently practice cannabilism (gulp), however, I’m skeptical as to how wide spread it really was. It does seem he was selective.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          that weird Saboteur guy (who I don’t believe for a second was an actual Economics professor, given his “research method” is just copying and pasting links) referred to you as a “Communist Anti-Racist” (more evidence of his brilliant mind).

        • Another William Playfair Web

          he’s not on the blogroll I see…….

        • Another William Playfair Web

          he’s a pretty solid WN, tis the point.
          I think more liberals would be entertaining of “race realism” than one would think. I shudder at calling WNs “realists” at all.

        • I love it when White nationalist types call me Communist antiracist and stuff like that. That is so hot. I like being called names like that so much more than being called racist, sexist, anti-Semitic, homophobic, transphobic reactionary righting fascist Nazi. I just don’t relate to that at all. The Commie antiracist thing I can sort of relate to though I would want to hang around those idiots about as much as I would want to hang around WN’s. I hate em both. SJW’s and White nationalists can both burn. Bullets for both of them.

        • think more liberals would be entertaining of “race realism” than one would think.

          I started a movement called “Liberal Race Realism” which was I guess a precursor to the Alternative Left. It completely flopped in the worst possible way. If it was a product, I would have gone bankrupt.

          The Alt Left already seems to be failing LOL. We just started and we have already split into at least three different wings LOL.

          God I love the Left. Leftists are the ultimate splitters. No matter how big tent they try to be, pretty soon, there are like 5-10 splits in any Left movement.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Liberals may deny facts, but typically they don’t make stuff up.
          That’s the difference between them and right-leaning WNs.
          I.E. half the stuff on American Renaissance is in the readers’ damn heads
          i.e. at one point they were talking about Black female-White male couples, and someone said that they only existed at a rate of ‘1 in 18000 couples’ (may have been hyperbolic, since they are few), to which a Confederate flag avartared WN said “that’s too many, that makes me sick”
          IN THEIR DAMN HEADS
          That’s no major issue, it’s just in their damn heads!

  4. Jason Y

    Genetics is way exxagerted with WNs and other racists. People only act the way they do cause they’re in a comfort zone. Things change rapidly once the pampered are put in a harsh environment. Sure, the poor white in Brazil is a sociopath, but that’s how you survive. Such a personality isn’t needed in some middle class or rich area.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      When Jared Gaylor debated those beastie boy Jew rappers, they essentially just used the straw man tactic with his statements, making him look nutty/not credible. One of the things was he poo-pooed environment, basically saying it was ‘irrelevant’. That did not go over well…….

    • Another William Playfair Web

      cause any chump knows environment is a factor….

    • Another William Playfair Web

      that could dictate environment to the racial mean, but in bad environments, it would cause it to be less than that..

    • Jason Y

      Life in a middle class area would be a joke. Once you run into anything bad or dangerous on the outside, you can just run away<.b>. However, a poor guy trapped in such an area has nowhere to run, kind of like in a prison situation.

      • Jason Y

        Sorry mistake in html

        Life in a middle class area would be a joke. Once you run into anything bad or dangerous on the outside, you can just run away. However, a poor guy trapped in such an area has nowhere to run, kind of like in a prison situation.

        Note ep-gah and the like rant on about savages etc.. but fail to realize they’re savages cause well, they don’t have a middle class neighborhood, or a middle class mommy to run to. They have to fight.

        • Jason Y

          Meant to say:

          Life in a middle class area would be a joke. Once you run into anything bad or dangerous outside of the area, you can just run away. However, a poor guy trapped in a poor area has nowhere to run, kind of like in a prison situation.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Yes. EPGAH was laughed off of this blog. It took me on average less than half a second to come up with something that completely rebutted almost everything he just said, and he many times did not even have a rebuttal to that (proof that it worked).

  5. Jim

    The difference in the average level of various traits between different racial/ethnic groups is completely compatible with a lot of variation between
    individuals in each racial/ethnic group. For example the 2-R allele of the MAOA gene is found in .1-.2% of white males vs. about 5.5% of black males. The approximately 50 times higher incidence of this allele in blacks no doubt plays a role in the higher levels of violence in black communities. Still the vast majority of blacks (95%) do not have the 2-R allele.

    The problem with cultural explanations is that the behavioral genetic studies on identical twins show very minor effect of “shared environment”. Culture would presumabley fall within shared environment. Most human behavior is mostly due to a combination of genetic factors and somethiing not very well understood today called “non-shared environment”.

    • Chinedu

      Pseudoscience stupidity. A hallmark of white nationalism along with fraudulent statistics.

      I’ll give you guys credit for persistence though. You keep trotting out this fake junk no matter how many times you get shot down.

      • Jason Y

        They believe a lot of it, cause that’s what they want to believe. They’re looking at all of it from a negative viewpoint, a cup is half empty viewpoint, because they hate or loathe non-whites and mixed raced people.

        • “They believe a lot of it, cause that’s what they want to believe. They’re looking at all of it from a negative viewpoint, a cup is half empty viewpoint, because they hate or loathe non-whites and mixed raced people.”

          So only white nationalist believe is HBD? If you actually read Jim’s comments He’s nothing of the type, at least not of the typical conviction you often express.

        • “Jorge – Human sacrifice as well as cannibalism in Mesoamerican cultures was not necessarily restricted to captives. There is much to admire about the artistic and architectural accomplishments of Mesoamerican cultures but there is no denying that these cultures in general tended to be very warlike as well as practicing human sacrifice and cannibalism on a frequently massive scale.”

          Where does this response line up with your expectations?

      • Waltem

        You outed yourself as a Blank Slate pusher.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          You deny statistics about the intellect of Drumfkins.

          The pot calling the Kettle BLACK?

    • Chinedu

      @Phil

      We can only go by what you people present, not what you say. If you go to stormfront many of them will swear up and down that they’re not racists. But perusing their writing for a few minutes proves otherwise.

      HBD is another idiotic creationist type false ideology that’s held to desperately by a bunch of losers who want to see themselves as special, unique and superior, when in fact they’re the exact opposite. Why rely on pseudoscience that any 5 year old can debunk if you want to be taken seriously?

      • “We can only go by what you people present, not what you say. If you go to stormfront many of them will swear up and down that they’re not racists. But perusing their writing for a few minutes proves otherwise.”

        Can you actually debunk genetic differences on average behavior and average IQ?

        “HBD is another idiotic creationist type false ideology that’s held to desperately by a bunch of losers who want to see themselves as special, unique and superior, when in fact they’re the exact opposite. Why rely on pseudoscience that any 5 year old can debunk if you want to be taken seriously?”

        I wholeheartedly agree HBD is misused but it is a reality. The thing is though is that the author of this blog doesn’t use it the way others do. I actually been reading on Pre-colonial Black culture and think it could help issue facing Black Americans here and I even think environmental tactics could be used to help situations but to make progress it would have to keep HBD in mind.

      • Waltem

        You seem to be offended at the notion that biology has something to do with human behavior and in term, differences in performance. Even though that’s the case for other animals.

        • Chinedu

          Biology has everything to do with human behavior on an individual level. It does not, for example, mean that every white man likes to boink little boys just because the vast majority of pedophiles are white men. There is, however, something in the culture of white men that produces this kind of deviancy. Take away that something and the problem would be ameliorated. In other words, it’s not genetically coded.

          To say that all the people of this race or that race are this or that is what makes race realism or HBD an idiotic, cult-like pseudoscience. Whenever they’re presented with opposing evidence they simply answer by repeating the same discredited junk. They can never debate honestly and rationally because they have such a vested interest in their fantasies being real.

        • Waltem

          “Biology has everything to do with human behavior on an individual level. It does not, for example, mean that every white man likes to boink little boys just because the vast majority of pedophiles are white men.”

          Anti-White garbage. In America Blacks and Hispanics are charged with sex crimes directed at children proportionately more than Whites. There’s a shot that you’re pulling the classic trick of grouping Hispanics in with Whites to bloat White levels.

          “There is, however, something in the culture of white men that produces this kind of deviancy.”

          Non-straight men are overrepresented in sex crimes inflicted on somebody of the same sex. Robert Lindsay already tackled this.

          “Take away that something and the problem would be ameliorated. In other words, it’s not genetically coded.”

          How about you show me a modern White nation where underage sex with another male is socially acceptable.

          “To say that all the people of this race or that race are this or that is what makes race realism or HBD an idiotic, cult-like pseudoscience.”

          Keep on pulling the NAXALT card.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Anti-White garbage
          on a scale of 1 to this, how bad of Anti-White garbage is it?;

        • Another William Playfair Web

          “How about you show me a modern White nation where underage sex with another male is socially acceptable.”

          Yeah, Trumpkin, well show me a Latin American one where that is the case.
          Mann Coulter never actually provided evidence of ‘Latin America Child-Rape Culture’

        • Another William Playfair Web

          proportionately more than Whites
          Although it may just be a technicality, I believe you mean, disproportionately more than Whites
          beyond proportion,
          that would imply that Blacks and “Hispanics” had a higher pop. than Whites, and hence performed the crimes just for that reason.

          BUT, it probably doesn’t matter.
          Just my way of doing things.
          It could be said that, Blacks are I don’t know 1.6x more likely than Whites to do something, or something like that.

          But you’re probably just spouting your MANTRA.

    • Chinedu

      @Phil

      “Well obviously Race have adapted physically to their environment

      http://internetlooks.com/humandifferentiation.html

      As a chart in the link would show races have different shapes that leads to different athletic outcomes.”

      There are different body shapes all over the world and even within your own family. Do Nigerians have the same body shape as Kenyans? Do Nigerians even have the same body shape as other Nigerians? There are no hard races that fit into the neat little categories you people dream about. It just doesn’t work. Everyone keeps telling you people this but you keep beating your head against the wall, expecting everyone else to go along with the stupidity.

      Moreover, what do body shapes have to do with intelligence and learned behaviors?

      “As well one can observe difference in IQ ranges.

      https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2010/03/07/iq-by-region-maps/

      IQ’s range all over the place even within ethnically homogeneous populations. Again, trying to assert some of racial hierarchy in intelligence is another losing battle. IQ, by the way, is not set in stone for all eternity. IQ’s rise, gaps close.

      “And that IQ does correlate with mental abilities.”

      That’s questionable at best. And stupid people can have high IQ’s

      “As well as this varying by race.”

      There are blacks and whites outside of America. Black Americans score higher than Iranians, Saudis, white North Africans, etc. Based on the HBD nonsense, all Caucasians should score higher than all blacks. But we know that’s not true, don’t we. I’ve also seen studies where Sierra Leone and Nigeria scored higher than North Africans, Arabs and Southern Europeans,

      “However, it’s not as simple as that “whites are smarter than blacks”, what it means it that, on average, Whites and blacks differ in mental abilities.”

      Complete rubbish. So the blacks that are smarter than you, how do you explain that? I know you’ll say averages but nature doesn’t work that way. Either an organism has something or they don’t. That’s why there isn’t a single chimpanzee that can operate an airliner or do calculus. Besides, you have absolutely no idea what the real averages are. In order to find out we’d have to isolate new born babies on an island, expose them to the same learning, nutrition and other environmental stimuli, free of racism and other destructive phenomenon. Then we can test. If that were to happen, I assure you, you won’t like the results.

      “For example, a Black at a 70 IQ functions better than an average white at 70 iq because 70 is closer to the theoretical genetic IQ for Blacks (80) compared to whites (100).”

      More pseudoscience nonsense. If a black at 70 functions better than a white at 100 then that’s an indictment of IQ testing, isn’t it? That means that the black isn’t really at 70 because he’s innately more functional and innately more intelligent than the white at 100.

      “While environment does impedes mental development if deprived of requirements but have their limits not just between races but between individuals.”

      Iranians are white, and they score below black Americans. You see, anybody can find counterexamples to refute all this garbage. You people like to couch this junk as accepted scientific facts. It’s not. It’s pseudoscience at best. A real scientific fact is repeatable every time and cannot be refuted. The law of gravity works every time. The law of thermodynamics works every time. But if assert that blacks are less intelligent than whites as some sort of scientific principal, all anyone has to do is introduce a single black person that is smarter than you and everyone you know.

      • “There are different body shapes all over the world and even within your own family. Do Nigerians have the same body shape as Kenyans? Do Nigerians even have the same body shape as other Nigerians? ”

        What you are describing are variations in them which does exist, however what occurs with ethnic groups is that there is basically an “average type” to represent them. Even within race they have different body shapes due to living in different environment and needing different adaptations.

        “There are no hard races that fit into the neat little categories you people dream about. It just doesn’t work. Everyone keeps telling you people this but you keep beating your head against the wall, expecting everyone else to go along with the stupidity.”

        Then explain how people are capable of tracing their ancestry then on DNA sites? Also, yes, racial groups in science exist.

        http://www.biologyreference.com/Ar-Bi/Biology-of-Race.html

        Moreover, what do body shapes have to do with intelligence and learned behaviors?”

        That wasn’t my point, my point is giving an example of human adaptation to then understand the latter concept when it applies to mental abilities which does have a biological basis.

        “IQ’s range all over the place even within ethnically homogeneous populations. Again, trying to assert some of racial hierarchy in intelligence is another losing battle. IQ, by the way, is not set in stone for all eternity. IQ’s rise, gaps close.”

        Yes, between races IQ rnages are similar but the differences lies in distribution thus having different averages. You say that gaps close but with environmental affects alone it still persists unless you can give data of otherwise.

        “There are blacks and whites outside of America. Black Americans score higher than Iranians, Saudis, white North Africans, etc. Based on the HBD nonsense, all Caucasians should score higher than all blacks.”

        No it doesn’t, the “hiearchy” is b ased on the averages of whole races, not between sub races.

        “But we know that’s not true, don’t we. I’ve also seen studies where Sierra Leone and Nigeria scored higher than North Africans, Arabs and Southern Europeans,”

        That result was based on a unrepresentative sample

        http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/lynn2010.pdf

        “Complete rubbish. So the blacks that are smarter than you, how do you explain that? I know you’ll say averages but nature doesn’t work that way. Either an organism has something or they don’t.”

        The you don’t know how averages work. My point that their are sub sections of mental abilities that different groups do better in due to adaptation.

        “That’s why there isn’t a single chimpanzee that can operate an airliner or do calculus.”

        That has nothing to do with what i said, as i said before, I’m talking about sub section of mental abilities. BTW

        http://www.livescience.com/27199-chimps-smarter-memory-humans.html

        “Besides, you have absolutely no idea what the real averages are. In order to find out we’d have to isolate new born babies on an island, expose them to the same learning, nutrition and other environmental stimuli, free of racism and other destructive phenomenon. Then we can test. If that were to happen, I assure you, you won’t like the results.”

        https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/05/22/the-black-white-iq-gap/

        here it argues how environment had little affect on their IQs.

        “More pseudoscience nonsense. If a black at 70 functions better than a white at 100 then that’s an indictment of IQ testing, isn’t it? That means that the black isn’t really at 70 because he’s innately more functional and innately more intelligent than the white at 100.”

        No, they still have similarities in term of g related abilities, the differences lie in behavior.

        “Iranians are white, and they score below black Americans. You see, anybody can find counterexamples to refute all this garbage. You people like to couch this junk as accepted scientific facts. It’s not. It’s pseudoscience at best. A real scientific fact is repeatable every time and cannot be refuted. The law of gravity works every time. The law of thermodynamics works every time. But if assert that blacks are less intelligent than whites as some sort of scientific principal, all anyone has to do is introduce a single black person that is smarter than you and everyone you know.”

        Again you fail to understand the concept.

        A.) Within macro races like Whites, different groups within them do varies in IQ. It’s the IQ averages of the whole group that shows the general pattern.

        B.) That statement of a Black smarter than doesn’t contradict the science because these are averages in IQ at populations, not that everyone in a population has the same IQ.

        C.) I’m not white.
        https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/10/27/a-look-at-precontact-igbo-society/

      • A post didn’t get through but basically I summarize my points

        1.) the example of physical differences was to show that human adaptation to environment occurs. They don’t neccessarily make all bodies the same but makes a body type that is more ideal to adapt more prevalent, so you can have population with different types within itself. Your comparison of Kenyans and Nigerians doesn’t contradict my point because
        a. They adapted to different environment themselves
        b. Those are nationalities with ethnic groups of different origins.

        2.) IQ works the same way. Within ethnic groups of races you have different averages as well with individuals

        https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/03/13/why-hbd/

        So yes, a black smarter than me is possible.

        3.) Basically anypoint you make with IQ and environment, racism, etc. can be argued here.

        https://notpoliticallycorrect.me/2016/05/22/the-black-white-iq-gap/

        4.) My point is that along with different overall IQ average, there are difference with strengths of different brain functions.

        http://www.livescience.com/27199-chimps-smarter-memory-humans.html

        5.) The results on Sierra Leone was based on unrepresentative samples
        http://www.iapsych.com/iqmr/fe/LinkedDocuments/lynn2010.pdf

        6.) I’m Black.

        7.) “Biology has everything to do with human behavior on an individual level. It does not, for example, mean that every white man likes to boink little boys just because the vast majority of pedophiles are white men. There is, however, something in the culture of white men that produces this kind of deviancy. Take away that something and the problem would be ameliorated. In other words, it’s not genetically coded.

        To say that all the people of this race or that race are this or that is what makes race realism or HBD an idiotic, cult-like pseudoscience. Whenever they’re presented with opposing evidence they simply answer by repeating the same discredited junk. They can never debate honestly and rationally because they have such a vested interest in their fantasies being real.”

        I agree with your philosophy but culture doesn’t become a go to answer when genetic variation is considered. Also, HBD doesn’t say that. People abuse it but the science always points out that these are averages being discussed.

        Regardless, I do believe in social intervention but it would have to follow rules of human biology to achieve realistic goals.

        • Chinedu

          Phil,

          I notice you keep linking to bloggers instead of real scientists. I don’t consider bloggers to be authoritative. Many of them have a racial axe to grind and will resort to lying and manipulation of data to try to get adherents to their cause.

          Why don’t you link me to a real scientist that agrees with you that there is some sort of biological basis in IQ disparities between groups. As a matter of fact, since you’ll claim that they’re all being silenced due to political correctness, simply link to scientists or academics in a country that doesn’t give a shit about political correctness. How about Russia or North Korea or Iceland or Saudi Arabia. Surely if this view had any scientific merit, it would be taught at institutes of learning. Can you identify any university on earth that teaches racial hierarchies in intelligence?

          I’m not surprised that you tried to argue away all the countervailing evidence I presented. This is typical of HBDers and one of the main reasons no one takes you seriously. So you are arguing there are gradations in Caucasian intelligence (with absolutely no proof to back up that absurd notion). Nevermind that the Caucasians that now score below African Americans once had spectacular civilizations while the “smart” Caucasians (Europeans) were nothing more than marauding barbarian savages. What you are claiming, if it were true, would hold thoroughtout human civilization and it doesn’t. If you were to administer any sort of intelligence test to Europeans at various points in history, they would fall well below the people you now claim are at the lower end of Caucasian intelligence. What changed? Culture, influences, values. NOT GENETICS!!!!! Those same people immigrate to America and quickly overtake white Americans in academics and occupation. And no, they are not selected for intelligence. All it is is a change in environment.

        • “I notice you keep linking to bloggers instead of real scientists. I don’t consider bloggers to be authoritative. Many of them have a racial axe to grind and will resort to lying and manipulation of data to try to get adherents to their cause.”
          The bloggers have links to the studies themselves.

          http://frihetspartiet.net/dokumenter/minnesota-transracial-adoption-study.pdf

          “Why don’t you link me to a real scientist that agrees with you that there is some sort of biological basis in IQ disparities between groups. As a matter of fact, since you’ll claim that they’re all being silenced due to political correctness, simply link to scientists or academics in a country that doesn’t give a shit about political correctness. How about Russia or North Korea or Iceland or Saudi Arabia. Surely if this view had any scientific merit, it would be taught at institutes of learning. Can you identify any university on earth that teaches racial hierarchies in intelligence?”

          The problem with suggesting that it doesn’t have scientific merit simply because it’s not taught regularly is sort of irrelevant. Outside of political reasons, their is also the quality of other universities outside of the U.S or Europe.

          Either way, while racial IQ studies may not be even than popular in the U.S their is still studies on IQ and genetics themselves.
          https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn1520-iq-is-inherited-suggests-twin-study/
          http://www.ibc7.org/article/journal_v.php?sid=317
          http://openpsych.net/OBG/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/OBG_PolSelIntel_final.pdf

          “I’m not surprised that you tried to argue away all the countervailing evidence I presented.”
          Actually I thoroughly debunked your strawmans, if you think I didn’t please state them again.

          “This is typical of HBDers and one of the main reasons no one takes you seriously. So you are arguing there are gradations in Caucasian intelligence (with absolutely no proof to back up that absurd notion). ”

          http://mapsontheweb.zoom-maps.com/post/105271679688/world-brain-size-map-map-over-cranial-capacity-in

          While studies in identifying genes isn’t yet present AFAIK with Caucasians but there are traits to suggest different modes of selection

          “Nevermind that the Caucasians that now score below African Americans once had spectacular civilizations while the “smart” Caucasians (Europeans) were nothing more than marauding barbarian savages.”

          This based on IQ scores NOW, rather than what they may’ve been in the past.
          https://hbdchick.wordpress.com/2012/03/04/medieval-manorialism-and-selection-again/

          The site also deals with many ways, not JUST with Blacks and Whites, in how evolution has occurred within human history.

          Also, are you saying the Roman Empire wasn’t European? Middle Eastern Influence sure but not middle eastern itself.

          “What you are claiming, if it were true, would hold thoroughtout human civilization and it doesn’t. If you were to administer any sort of intelligence test to Europeans at various points in history, they would fall well below the people you now claim are at the lower end of Caucasian intelligence. What changed? Culture, influences, values. NOT GENETICS!!!!!”

          Actually we don’t know that for sure, because cultures does change genetic selection

          “Those same people immigrate to America and quickly overtake white Americans in academics and occupation. And no, they are not selected for intelligence. All it is is a change in environment.”

          Proof that they weren’t? There is actually evidence that Migrants from the middle east that actually do compete were skilled already.

          http://www.un.org/esa/population/meetings/EGM_Ittmig_Arab/P10_Ozden.pdf

        • Waltem

          Plenty of real scientists have considered differences in intelligence between races and the sex that lead to differences in performance. James Watson for one, Richard Lynn another. Even Steven Pinker talked about the performance of Ashkenazi Jews going down to biology and defended Richard Lynn’s work.

          And the Western European barbarians as of Caesar’s conquest certainly had more to label them as advanced than Sub-Saharan Africa did. One can just look their metallurgy.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Do you understand their REASONS?

          It’s just a mantra

          I may be a “racialist”
          but I hate the vast majority of other racialists.

        • Chinedu

          Phil,

          If you can’t figure out what’s wrong with the infamous Minnesota Adoption Study, then I feel sorry for you.. You’re on the Internet and all this material is available at your fingertips. For some reason, even though you claim your black, you’d rather bury your head in the sand in order to feed your racist fantasies. No serious person debating this topic can plausibly claim they haven’t encountered some of the shitload of debunking of that study.

          You say the Sierra Leone score was based on a non-representative sample? Everything about IQ testing is non-representative. You acclaim Richard Lynn, who not only uses non-representative samples, he actually cooks and fabricates data. But as long as you agree with his conclusions, you don’t really give a shit what he does, do you?

          Yeah, intelligence is significantly heritable. Okay, so what? How does that fact support HBD pseudoscience?

          You want racial groups to exist? Fine, but your Negroid, Caucasoid and Asiatic mantra is null and void. People like me don’t say that human groups don’t exist, we say that the classification system is arbitrary and unrelated to actual genetics. You want races? Okay, there are 1000 races in Europe and 10,000 races in Africa. In fact you can even create races within your family. After all, you’re all different and biologically distinct from each other. Knock yourself out. There are races all over the place. I agree with you. There are thousands of races. Now what? What’s your point? What do you hope to gain? Who’s going to subscribe to your pseudoscience and organize the world according to your delusions?

          Remember, I agree with you that races exist. In fact, I think there are thousands of races among humanity and perhaps hundreds of thousands of races depending on how finely we delineate differences. You and your brother could be classified as belonging to different races. I’m all for it. It’s all arbitrary anyway so make up as many races as you want. It’s the race realists and HBDers that are anti-human variation, You try to fit everyone into your black, white and Asian classification scheme come hell or high water.

        • “If you can’t figure out what’s wrong with the infamous Minnesota Adoption Study, then I feel sorry for you.. You’re on the Internet and all this material is available at your fingertips. For some reason, even though you claim your black, you’d rather bury your head in the sand in order to feed your racist fantasies. No serious person debating this topic can plausibly claim they haven’t encountered some of the shitload of debunking of that study.”

          Look, how about rather than just saying “info is out there” and insulting me how about you actually link a review that debunks it and argue that.

          “The transracial adoption design is of intense interest because it controls for a number of environmental variables commonly cited to explain race differences in phenotypic intelligence. It is possible that among the environmental variables the transracial adoption design does not control for are some which explain the race difference. However, these variables must be specified and shown independently to affect IQ test performance before this possibility can be cited as an alternative explanation of the data. ”

          https://lesacreduprintemps19.files.wordpress.com/2012/11/levin-comment-on-mtras.pdf

          “You say the Sierra Leone score was based on a non-representative sample? Everything about IQ testing is non-representative. You acclaim Richard Lynn, who not only uses non-representative samples, he actually cooks and fabricates data. But as long as you agree with his conclusions, you don’t really give a shit what he does, do you?”

          While that was a vice of his, other studies have replicated his results.

          https://pumpkinperson.com/2015/07/05/estimating-the-average-iq-of-sub-saharan-africa/

          This post talks about Rushton’s studying.

          “Yeah, intelligence is significantly heritable. Okay, so what? How does that fact support HBD pseudoscience?

          You want racial groups to exist? Fine, but your Negroid, Caucasoid and Asiatic mantra is null and void. People like me don’t say that human groups don’t exist, we say that the classification system is arbitrary and unrelated to actual genetics. You want races? Okay, there are 1000 races in Europe and 10,000 races in Africa. In fact you can even create races within your family. After all, you’re all different and biologically distinct from each other. Knock yourself out. There are races all over the place. I agree with you. There are thousands of races. Now what? What’s your point? What do you hope to gain? Who’s going to subscribe to your pseudoscience and organize the world according to your delusions?”

          Race is based on how phenotypical traits are expressed different between population on average that is due to environmental adaptation. It’s used in police forensics
          http://www.forensicpathologyonline.com/e-book/autopsy/human-remains-examination

          Also http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3762614/

          Again, if they didn’t, then

          “Remember, I agree with you that races exist. In fact, I think there are thousands of races among humanity and perhaps hundreds of thousands of races depending on how finely we delineate differences. You and your brother could be classified as belonging to different races. I’m all for it. It’s all arbitrary anyway so make up as many races as you want. It’s the race realists and HBDers that are anti-human variation, You try to fit everyone into your black, white and Asian classification scheme come hell or high water.”

          http://isites.harvard.edu/fs/docs/icb.topic185351.files/RACEgen.pdf

          I find it funny that while say that I’m both scientifically confused and poltically motivated, I have

          A.) given sources and scientific explanations

          While you

          B.) nickpicked, used buzzwords like “psuedoscience”, you emotional mantra and ranting on how “stupid” HBD’rs are instead of actually debunking my arguments or making and investigative arguments yourself that actually represent the arguments I have.

        • Jm8

          to Phil:

          An observation re: Pumpkinperson’s discussion of African iq and his comparison to White Victorians: He claims that malnutrition in White Victorians was less severe than in modern Africans (which sounds questionable, but I don’t know) but ignores the very high disease burden (of diseases that can artificially lower iq, many but perhaps not all of them tropical) in Africa (higher than the still substantial/high disease burdens in South Asia and most of the Caribbean), which is surely higher that that suffered by White Victorians (though theirs was surely great by modern Western standards).

        • Jm8

          Nevermind, I think a commentator at that site may have made similar point to mine (albeit with less detail).

        • to Phil:
          “an observation re: Pumpkinperson’s discussion of African iq and his comparison to White Victorians:
          He claims that malnutrition in White Victorians was less severe than in modern Africans (which sounds questionable, but I don’t know), but ignores the very high disease burden (of diseases that can artificially lower iq, many—but perhaps not all—of them tropical) in Africa (higher than the still substantial/hight disease burdens in South Asia and most of the Caribbean), which is surely higher that that suffered by White Victorians (though theirs was surely great by modern Western standards).”

          I used his post mainly in regard towards Rushton’s work rather than his speculation on Victorian IQ. I don’t even know where he got that from.

          http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-2323944/Were-Victorians-cleverer-Research-indicates-decline-brainpower-reflex-speed.html

          Just commenting on the possibility of higher processing speed (if galton results are accurate and comparable to modern comparsion) I think a possible reason would be obesity.

          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3869042/

          Multiple people in the comment section mentioned how athletes have better processing speed than regular people but of course they were absolute geniuses.

          Just a thought.

        • Chinedu

          “Look, how about rather than just saying “info is out there” and insulting me how about you actually link a review that debunks it and argue that.”

          Not when it takes anyone twp seconds to Google it. Why should I spam this page with the literally dozens of criticisms of this study when you can simply read them at your leisure? But of course you won’t. HBD is a joke because you’re all cultists that are pathologically unwilling to look at anything that doesn’t support your world view.

          “While that was a vice of his, other studies have replicated his results.”

          And there are studies that debunk his results. We know that Africans aren’t functionally or clinically retarded. So the studies that debunk Lynn’s results are the ones grounded in actual reality.

          “Race is based on how phenotypical traits are expressed different between population on average that is due to environmental adaptation. It’s used in police forensics”r

          Nope. Race is whatever we say it is. An idea of race changes depending on where in the world you are or even the historical period. Obama is black in America but colored in South Africa. New Guineans are “black” even though they cluster with Asians genetically. Australian Aborigines are also black even though they are some of the most divergent people from Africans genetically. In the past in Europe the different nationalities were considered different races. There used to be an English race, German race etc. In Africa, they describe different ethnic groups as distinct races. For example, some Africans call my people the Igbo race.

          Sorry, reality is what it is. Race is arbitrary and exists as a social construct. That’s why I gave you leave to create all the races you want. Go ahead, knock yourself out. How about a million races? That would be just as valid as any other classification scheme.

          “I find it funny that while say that I’m both scientifically confused and poltically motivated, I have,,,”

          Frankly you’re just spamming the board with the same tripe you people always trot out. There isn’t any of it that can’t be comprehensively refuted with hard facts. There are entire websites devoted to debunking all your junk.

        • “Not when it takes anyone twp seconds to Google it. Why should I spam this page with the literally dozens of criticisms of this study when you can simply read them at your leisure? But of course you won’t. HBD is a joke because you’re all cultists that are pathologically unwilling to look at anything that doesn’t support your world view.”

          That doesn’t matter. Whether you like it or not when arguing with someone you lose credibility when you neither give a source or at least argue using some sort of concept. You did neither and just ranted. If it was that easy, then why would it be a bother?

          “And there are studies that debunk his results. We know that Africans aren’t functionally or clinically retarded. So the studies that debunk Lynn’s results are the ones grounded in actual reality.”

          Okay, HOW do we know they are not? To tell you would need an IQ test, IQ test studies have been done and they showed that many are within that range of IQ at least.

          You so far only say that “they are out there” and refuse to do it, so is it me that’s denying evidence against my “world views” or you not capable of arguing on scientific grounds? Also most of the articles that attack his results, after they are redone, point out biases.

          Also, if you actually read Richard Lynn, he says that malnutrition likely does affect African IQs.

          “Nope. Race is whatever we say it is. An idea of race changes depending on where in the world you are or even the historical period. Obama is black in America but colored in South Africa. New Guineans are “black” even though they cluster with Asians genetically. Australian Aborigines are also black even though they are some of the most divergent people from Africans genetically. In the past in Europe the different nationalities were considered different races. There used to be an English race, German race etc. In Africa, they describe different ethnic groups as distinct races. For example, some Africans call my people the Igbo race.”

          All you are describing is conventional meanings of word versus their scientific use. Examples would be words like “Law” ,”Theory” ,”Model”.

          Also, you have not debunked the links that prove genetic correlation based on PERCIEVED ETHNIC GROUPS.

          “Sorry, reality is what it is. Race is arbitrary and exists as a social construct. That’s why I gave you leave to create all the races you want. Go ahead, knock yourself out. How about a million races? That would be just as valid as any other classification scheme.”

          You didn’t even read what I linked obviously.

          Even back then when they dis use race as loosely as you describe it was in the same relation as the “black, white, yellow” races and the sub categories within them. Another note that sub races often had ethnic groups within them with a genetic relation by historical lineages.

          And again, I gave you sources that prove genetic relation but have yet to prove otherwise in any form towards the literature.

          “Frankly you’re just spamming the board with the same tripe you people always trot out. There isn’t any of it that can’t be comprehensively refuted with hard facts. There are entire websites devoted to debunking all your junk.”

          Yet you are to lazy to prove otherwise. also, it doesn’t matter how many website dispute it. All it does matter is how well their arguments are.

          I’M being unoriginal? says the person who denies race’s significance in biology (as I proved with police forensics and disease frequency studies) and keep spouting “social construct” in light hard facts.

          You also claim that I’m “a cultist” when you are literally just repeating yourself and not actually arguing with so called scientifically validity.

          Evidence of someone who isn’t one would be another Black HBD’r

          https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/02/21/the-problem-with-hbd-the-dark-enlighment-neoreactionism-alt-rightism-and-that-jazz/

          Also, his evidence of HBD

          https://jaymans.wordpress.com/jaymans-race-inheritance-and-iq-f-a-q-f-r-b/

  6. Jim

    Jorge – Human sacrifice as well as cannibalism in Mesoamerican cultures was not necessarily restricted to captives. There is much to admire about the artistic and architectural accomplishments of Mesoamerican cultures but there is no denying that these cultures in general tended to be very warlike as well as practicing human sacrifice and cannibalism on a frequently massive scale.

    • jorge

      Maybe there were some sacrifices to members of their own people, but at least in the case of Mexicas, almost all were prisoners and slaves from surrounding nations that were dominated by them. About cannibalism, I don’t know how much was practiced in that region. It would have been impossible sacrifice many persons of it own people because could create instability because the high demand of sacrifices.
      Instead, sometimes reduced control to some of this dominated nations to make that they begin revolts and so have an excuse for attack them and take prisoners and slaves.

      It was more common in South America, mainly in Amazonian region, but with a special mention of Ava Guaranis (people extended by Paraguay, east of Bolivia, east part of northwest Argentina, northeast of Argentina and north of Pampean region), that used to eat best warriors of their enemies in rituals.

      • Jim

        The Maya actually raised specific children for the purpose of sacrificing them when they reached a certain age, a pretty chiling practice. As for tolerance of the practice of sacrifice of members of one’s own group, most Mesoamerican cultures believed that failure to offer human sacrifices would lead to terrible retalitaion from the gods so they were very fearful about the consequences of not doing so.

        In general the gods of Mesoamerican cultures were very grim and malevolent dieties not at all inclined to forgiveness of human failure to appease them.

        Let me add that there were a tremendous number of different cultures over a long period of time in Mesoamerica and it is very difficult to make any statement about them for which there are not exceotions art various times and places. However as admirable as much of the art and architecture of Mesoamerica was their cultures undoubtedly had a very dark side.

  7. Chinedu

    Europe was/is even more savage. It’s all a matter of perspective. You are looking at European savagery from the point of view of someone who has internalized it as “normal savagery” or something that’s in furtherance of what you consider a noble objectives.

    Imagine if Africans went to Europe and saw people being burned alive or beheaded, They would be horrified at the savagery. Who introduced cutting of limbs to the Congo? It was the Belgians, not the Africans. And wouldn’t you agree that WWI and WWII were particularly savage? In fact 100 million Europeans were killed in the 20th century alone.

    • Jason Y

      A WN would probably say savage behavior is OK in the context of war, but some African shouting oooga booooga 😆 with a spear beheading someone is a poster boy for why we need white nationalism.

    • Jason Y

      Many white attempts to control the savages were just as savage, take the most ugly examples of lynching in the US. How about Vietnam where some US GI made a cigar box of a Viet Cong lady’s breasts?

    • “Europe was/is even more savage. It’s all a matter of perspective. You are looking at European savagery from the point of view of someone who has internalized it as “normal savagery” or something that’s in furtherance of what you consider a noble objectives.”
      Alright, lets see examples.

      “Imagine if Africans went to Europe and saw people being burned alive or beheaded, They would be horrified at the savagery.” Uuummm, no, considering that they did that in village raids and sacrifices there is no reason to be believe that would be their reaction.

      “Who introduced cutting of limbs to the Congo? It was the Belgians, not the Africans.” Actually it says that it was a tactic to to torture them into working harder, not that it was “introduced” by them.

      “And wouldn’t you agree that WWI and WWII were particularly savage? In fact 100 million Europeans were killed in the 20th century alone”

      So that would roughly equal 1 million a year, right?

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide
      An estimated 500,000–1,000,000 Rwandans were killed during the 100-day period from April 7 to mid-July 1994,[

      Even if you could point out a equivalence from the past, basically nothing of the actually European population itself goes to the depths of savagery scene in Africa today.

      • Waltem

        Read Lawrence Keeley. “Savage” warfare (like say, in New Guinea) is proportionately more lethal than “civilized” warfare.

        • From the wiki

          “the genocide was planned by members of the core political elite, many of whom occupied positions at top levels of the national government. Perpetrators came from the ranks of the Rwandan army, the Gendarmerie, government-backed militias including the Interahamwe and Impuzamugambi, as well as countless ordinary civilians.”

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rwandan_genocide

        • Jason Y

          So what Phil. Mass genocide occured in the Nazi holocaust, assuming you believe it exists as many WNs do not. Some also think there was mass holocaust under Stalin and also Mao (not white but not black either).

        • Another William Playfair Web

          point is, the World Wars and the mass genocides of Europe did not rival Historic Africa, perhaps solely because the Africans did not have the means to commit such large genocides.
          Blacks are the most diverse, and may hence be the least connected to other portions of their race or even ethnicities, perhaps indicating they are more or less prone to ethnic violence (I’m not sure)

        • “So what Phil. Mass genocide occured in the Nazi holocaust, assuming you believe it exists as many WNs do not. Some also think there was mass holocaust under Stalin and also Mao (not white but not black either).”

          The point was the INTENSITY of the rate at which they killed. I never said it didn’t occur under other leaders

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Right. Some tribal war in New Guinea, in raw numbers was worse than in WWII.

          You’re not on AmRen anymore

      • Chinedu

        Dropping bombs from 30,000 feet on defenseless civilians and killing innocent women and children is even more savage — a type of cowardly savagery. If you don’t have the balls to go in on the ground then just stay out.

        • Waltem

          You have a noticeably ignorant narrative of warfare.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I guess the Ch!nks deserved it.
          Typical.
          Please go back to AmRen.
          Thanks.

        • Waltem

          Targeting non-combatants has been long been part of warfare. And the Showa Japanese government wouldn’t have surrendered when it did and under the terms it followed without the bombings.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          “Targeting non-combatants has been long been part of warfare”. Still pretty savage.

          “And the Showa Japanese government wouldn’t have surrendered when it did and under the terms it followed without the bombings.”

          Firebombings were on the path to working. The Nuclear Warhead was a symbol to the Soviets that we were ready to use them…(Robert McNamara spoke of this as a factor in his DOD decisions when he was secretary in the 1960s. Another Presidential adviser, Curtis LeMay, had directed such bombings;
          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hOCYcgOnWUM )

        • Waltem

          Revisionist myth. The sources on the going ons in Showa Japan’s government right before the bombings and after them show that Hirohito and Co.’s push to surrender was thanks to the bombings. And that they were trying to draw out the war before the atomic bombings.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          “And that they were trying to draw out the war before the atomic bombings.”

          Um….that backs up what I just said. ?

  8. Chinedu

    Shaka Zulu’s military reforms came as a shock to most Africans. Until that time an idea of total war was anathema to Africans. In fact, prior to that time often times opposing armies would hold dance offs rather than actually killing each other. The best dancers were declared the winner of the “battle.” So Shaka’s main innovation was an idea of ruthless, unforgiving warfare like practiced in Europe.

    • “Shaka Zulu’s military reforms came as a shock to most Africans. Until that time an idea of total war was anathema to Africans. In fact, prior to that time often times opposing armies would hold dance offs rather than actually killing each other. The best dancers were declared the winner of the “battle.” So Shaka’s main innovation was an idea of ruthless, unforgiving warfare like practiced in Europe.”

      While the details about dancing are true, his reforms weren’t a “shock” to most Africans.

      What made him distinct was how he used it to establish a kingdom, which was more or less uncommon amongst South African Bantus who were often Nomadic compared to West Africans. Nomads do make settlements, but just not as often because of their lifestyle and they typically weren’t as large as agriculturalists.

      Before that, Bantu people often went on cattle raids in which they stole each other’s cattle and and often leading to hurting others without resources.

      Also,

      “Dropping bombs from 30,000 feet on defenseless civilians and killing innocent women and children is even more savage — a type of cowardly savagery. If you don’t have the balls to go in on the ground then just stay out.”

      The motive behind this isn’t to make a point in Bravery, it’s to cause as much destruction as possible. With that said I don’t approve of this, but just examining warfare alone isn’t what make “savage”.

      Warfare is a case where you would expect violence to ensue at large scale with a lot of factors outside of just simple impulses to make it happen.

      Observation on how daily life is done is also another factor, like the stealing of cattle as well as town raiding. How safe their basic level of community is also another trait to be observed through crime rates.

      “I’ve seen pics of dozens of heavily armed whites lynching a lone black man. There were men, women and children there, all smiling and laughing it up. That’s a particular form of savagery as evil as anything anyone can imagine.”

      Lynching, while indeed used for igniting fear, wasn’t exclusive to black and were often used as a means to eliminate criminals in small rural areas.

      Still, regardless I agree it was a brutal practice but stuff like this wasn’t unknown in nonwhite societies, hell witch killing still exists in Africa.

      • Chinedu

        What about killing and maiming innocent black people because a white man lost a boxing match to a black man? (see boxing riots) Savage enough?

        What about razing and burning down entire black communities and killing men, women and children because they couldn’t bear to see blacks getting ahead? (search Black Wall Street). Savage enough?

        What about trying to burn down an orphanage filled with black children (See Gangs of New York, it’s a true story) Savage enough?

        One of the reasons white nationalists, white supremacists and HBDers are considered a bunch of clowns is because they have the temerity to accuse the victims of their brutality of being the aggressors an of having a violence or crime gene. If indeed a violence or crime gene exists, most rational people would say that whites have in in vastly greater abundance than blacks.

        • “What about killing and maiming innocent black people because a white man lost a boxing match to a black man? (see boxing riots) Savage enough?

          What about razing and burning down entire black communities and killing men, women and children because they couldn’t bear to see blacks getting ahead? (search Black Wall Street). Savage enough?

          What about trying to burn down an orphanage filled with black children (See Gangs of New York, it’s a true story) Savage enough?

          One of the reasons white nationalists, white supremacists and HBDers are considered a bunch of clowns is because they have the temerity to accuse the victims of their brutality of being the aggressors an of having a violence or crime gene. If indeed a violence or crime gene exists, most rational people would say that whites have in in vastly greater abundance than blacks.”

          But those were isolated events and if we were to go by those ideas, what about the Milwaukee “Beat Whitey Night” where college kids at a fair were maimed? What about the Civil Wars African countries partook in that kills people to this day?
          What about the rates of regular to violent crime Blacks have in basically in every country compared to White ones on average?

        • Jm8

          to Phil:

          I would not really call those isolated incidents.
          “Race riots” in the jim crow era (which were fairly common) usually described White attacks on Black (communities/sections of town)
          Lynchings were sometimes but not always—or even that frequently—done on the (often flimsy) pretext of a sex crime, but were often also often an effort to suppress Blacks who competed/tried to compete with Whites economically or were seen as generally behaving above their station. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lynching_in_the_United_States#Resistance_2

        • “I would not really call those isolated incidents.
          “Race riots” in the jim crow era (which were fairly common) usually described White attacks on Black (communities/sections of town)
          Lynchings were sometimes but not always—or even that frequently—done on the (often flimsy) pretext of a sex crime, but were often also often an effort to suppress Blacks who competed/tried to compete with Whites economically or were seen as generally behaving above their station.”

          I suppose “isolated” wasn’t the right word, but rather that these events weren’t representative of whites. In response to the revival of the Kaln, there was this

          “While the second KKK grew rapidly in cities undergoing major change and achieved some political power, many state and city leaders, including white religious leaders such as Reinhold Niebuhr in Detroit, acted strongly and spoke out publicly against the organization. Some anti-Klan groups published members’ names and quickly reduced the energy in their efforts. As a result, in most areas, after 1925 KKK membership and organizations rapidly declined. Cities passed laws against wearing of masks, and otherwise acted against the KKK.[65]”

          So their was an authorative response towards these incidences which led to a diminish. While I’ve heard of Nigeria’s Edo state making an organization for Albino discrimination and Uganda with Witch killings these things are still prevailing for whatever reason.

          In 1930, Southern white women responded in large numbers to the leadership of Jessie Daniel Ames in forming the Association of Southern Women for the Prevention of Lynching. She and her co-founders obtained the signatures of 40,000 women to their pledge against lynching and for a change in the South. The pledge included the statement:

          In light of the facts we dare no longer to… allow those bent upon personal revenge and savagery to commit acts of violence and lawlessness in the name of women.

          Despite physical threats and hostile opposition, the women leaders persisted with petition drives, letter campaigns, meetings and demonstrations to highlight the issues.[10] By the 1930s, the number of lynchings had dropped to about ten per year in Southern states.

          In the 1930s, communist organizations, including a legal defense organization called the International Labor Defense (ILD), organized support to stop lynching (see The Communist Party USA and African Americans). The ILD defended the Scottsboro Boys, as well as three black men accused of rape in Tuscaloosa in 1933. In the Tuscaloosa case, two defendants were lynched under circumstances that suggested police complicity. The ILD lawyers narrowly escaped lynching. Many Southerners resented them for their perceived “interference” in local affairs. In a remark to an investigator, a white Tuscaloosan said, “For New York Jews to butt in and spread communistic ideas is too much.”[22]

          I of course consider true events of discrimination but exactly how widespread were these types of crime by whites in general considering the WHOLE white population at that time?

          Even when you could make a point their, there is still discrepancies to consider when it continues to this day. It’s not simply the acts that occurred in history but how they have continuity into the present.

        • Also Jm8,

          While not being apologetic towards Lynching, it was traditionally a means of rural societies to punish criminals. Black societies in the south and in Africa did it too as well as Towns in the Old West towards other whites. Basically it’s not exactly hard to believe their was racial overlap in lynchings that were based on legit cases.

        • Waltem

          Tell me who does a bulk of violent crime in America when accounting for population.
          Tell me what nations have higher homicide rates per capita than America.

        • Chinedu

          “But those were isolated events and if we were to go by those ideas, what about the Milwaukee “Beat Whitey Night” where college kids at a fair were maimed? What about the Civil Wars African countries partook in that kills people to this day?
          What about the rates of regular to violent crime Blacks have in basically in every country compared to White ones on average?”

          Oh, so beat whitey night is not an isolated event? how many beat whitey nights have there been? How do the number of lychings of blacks compare to the number of beat whitey nights? And has it occurred to you that beat whitey night is a direct of those lynchings?

          How many African civil wars are extant and how do they compare to the thousands of years of European butchery that continues to this day in places like Ukraine?

          Blacks do not commit greater numbers of crimes compared to whites. Have you taken a look at Eastern European criminality? How about the Eastern European immigrants causing crime waves in Western Europe and even the United States? Moreover, crime statistics capture just a fraction of crimes. Blacks are scrutinized more and prosecuted more, In New York, blacks are stopped by police at a rate 8 times higher than whites. Once stopped, those blacks have not been shown to be engaged in criminal activity in excess of whites. But what it does mean is that those blacks that are engaged in crime will be arrested while whites engaged in crime are free to go on committing crimes and you’ll never find them in crime statistics. The same is true of shoplifting. White women are notorious shoplifters. The reason they’re so successful is because they can do it with impunity. Do you to trust shoplifting statistics then?

          There is a much higher correlation between poverty and street crime. Poor whites have caused massive waves of crime in this country when there used to be white urban ghettos. Most poor whites nowadays live in rural areas so of course there’s going to be fewer criminal incidents in rural environments. But if we look at a place like North Dakota, white crime has proliferated tracking with increased urbanization from the oil boom.

          You see, I’m not arguing that black people aren’t capable of great evil. But I do take exception to the notion propagated by you people that somehow blacks are more evil or have cruder morals than whites. Like everything else you people believe, the evidence just doesn’t support that idea.

        • Waltem

          “Blacks do not commit greater numbers of crimes compared to whites.”

          When accounting for population Blacks are ahead of Europeans when it comes to violent crime in America. Largely Black nations also are ahead of largely European nations in homicides per capita.

          “Have you taken a look at Eastern European criminality? How about the Eastern European immigrants causing crime waves in Western Europe and even the United States?”

          Eastern Europeans are more inclined to violent crime than other Europeans.

          “Moreover, crime statistics capture just a fraction of crimes. Blacks are scrutinized more and prosecuted more, In New York, blacks are stopped by police at a rate 8 times higher than whites.”

          And Blacks are overrepresented in violent crime.

          “Once stopped, those blacks have not been shown to be engaged in criminal activity in excess of whites. But what it does mean is that those blacks that are engaged in crime will be arrested while whites engaged in crime are free to go on committing crimes and you’ll never find them in crime statistics.”

          Yawn.

          “The same is true of shoplifting. White women are notorious shoplifters. The reason they’re so successful is because they can do it with impunity. Do you to trust shoplifting statistics then?”

          Oh, shoplifting. Such a great crime.

          “There is a much higher correlation between poverty and street crime.”

          Which is ahead in violent crime:

          Detroit or Appalachia?

          “Poor whites have caused massive waves of crime in this country when there used to be white urban ghettos.”

          Account for population.

          “Most poor whites nowadays live in rural areas so of course there’s going to be fewer criminal incidents in rural environments. But if we look at a place like North Dakota, white crime has proliferated tracking with increased urbanization from the oil boom.”

          Instead of going on about White crime you could discriminate between types of crime and which races or ethnicies are ahead when accounting for population.

        • “Instead of going on about White crime you could discriminate between types of crime and which races or ethnicies are ahead when accounting for population.”

          Considering how he handled such an attempt with whites and pedophilia you’re asking too much from him.

          Feel free to hog any more responses from him. I dealt with worse (far worse) but it doesn’t make it any less tolerable.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I think Waltem is missing the point of “savage”. It’s the manner in which things are done. If you deny that, then sorry bud, using raw numbers Europeans or possibly NE Asians are the most “savage”.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          of course that is referencing all of history.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          “Once stopped, those blacks have not been shown to be engaged in criminal activity in excess of whites. But what it does mean is that those blacks that are engaged in crime will be arrested, while whites engaged in crime are free to go on committing crimes, and you’ll never find them in crime statistics. Yawn.”

          Reminder, this is not a fact free zone. It’s true. No rebuttal. Typical Alt-Right idiocy.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Trump fackts (TM) are the only fackts I listen to.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          “of course that is referencing all history

          Yes, Blacks were less technologically advanced. They couldn’t kill each other as much. That’s the point!

        • Another William Playfair Web

          “all of history”

          Using raw numbers (I mean we’re talking about lives here), that’s true almost anywhere, ’tis the point.

        • Another William Playfair Web


          Keep in mind, Brazil is half White. Argentina is also heavily White.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          By people, of course. Far more than that in the gene pool…

    • Waltem

      You’re noble savage narrative is rejected by the likes of Lawrence H. Keeley

  9. Another William Playfair Web

    isn’t “savage” about perspective.
    There are some reasons Whites are hated, and it’s not solely jealousy.

    WHO do you think the Blacks learned to do this from, had it ever occured on a large scale, previously?

  10. Another William Playfair Web

    That’s cool, Waltem. When there are some facts I don’t like, I’ll just say “yawn” from here on out.
    Thanks, your really contributing to this blog!

    • Gay State Girl

      I do pity the WN Trump supporters, as they are willing to carry water for people who wouldn’t give them the time of day. The fact that they are willing to get their criminal record dirty (not to mention their digital fingerprint) is enough to perk up my maternal instincts…

    • Another William Playfair Web

      Well, I mean they’re unstoppable in general because in many issues, they’re correct. It’s the admitted Alt-Right that has the problem. I mean, Breitbart has given money to Cruz and is basically run by a gay Jew. Do they not see it’s a false flag operation? Or, like you say, their records could be compromised.

      I found out Hillary Clinton used to be on the Wal-Mart board of Directors. It’s that sort of BS that makes people go “Bernie or bust”

  11. Waltem

    “I think Waltem is missing the point of “savage”.

    It’s the manner in which things are done. If you deny that, then sorry bud, using raw numbers Europeans or possibly NE Asians are the most “savage”.”

    Read Lawrence Keeley and scholars like Steven Pinker who use his work. The warfare conducted by non-state societies (like say, in New Guinea) is proportionately more lethal than warfare conducted by state societies.

    “Reminder, this is not a fact free zone. It’s true. No rebuttal. Typical Alt-Right idiocy.”

    Neither you or that other poster have shown there are hordes of White men committing that just aren’t getting arrested so they don’t get listed, and so that’s what makes Blacks overrepresented in select crimes.

    “Yes, Blacks were less technologically advanced. They couldn’t kill each other as much. That’s the point!”

    The Crow Creek Massacre doesn’t agree with you. Neither does Lawrence Keeley’s work.

    “Using raw numbers (I mean we’re talking about lives here), that’s true almost anywhere, ’tis the point.”

    Try accounting for the world population across history.

    “Keep in mind, Brazil is half White. Argentina is also heavily White.”

    Only about 47% of Brazilians are listed as White as 2010. Argentinians are noticeably admixed.

  12. Rowlii

    Guys, how do you explain that black women are the most educate group in US and at the same time one of the poorest ?

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/black-women-become-most-educated-group-in-us-a7063361.html

      • Rowlii

        The B-W iq gap can’t explain it. We are talking about people with education!

        PS: Sorry for my bad english i am french

        • Actually this is one of the places where it does explains it. IQ is basically a traits that determines how much you can use knowledge you obtain as well as how well you can understand it.

          If you are aware of the B-W Gap then you should know about the limited role education plays.

        • Also, another thing, that article speaks particularly about Black women participating in Higher education, not Black women in general.

  13. Rowlii

    How do you explain that black women are more educate that asian women ??

    • Exactly what do you mean when you mention “education”?

      Considering how Affirmative action is a thing in the U,S, Black women are likely people you will have excess of higher education through advantages.

      Also if you read the comments of your link you will find that there was a misinterpretation of data.

      Read the second comment.

      • Rowlii

        Thanks for your answer.

        In my mind, B-W iq gap can’t explain himself this data, because, despite affirmative action, we can imagine that these women belong to the cognitive elite of african americans…

        They must have a iq higher than the average (surely lower than the average of high school students).

        • Yes, they likely would.

          The problem is though is that they aren’t representative of Black women in general in the U.S, many likely along with males dropping out at least by high school.

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