In Our Modern World, The Cultural Left and SJW’s Are Actually Normie Entities

Jason Y writes:

The posts about mixed race like transniggers as well as the stuff about transsexuals hinted of normie thinking. Of course, the transsexual thing is a total thing for choice, as opposed to mixed race which someone is born with. People have been mixing since the start of time, and many groups like the Irish and Scotch Irish normally have members with frizzy curly hair etc. Fortunately they don’t enslave them.

There’s nothing wrong with agreeing with society’s rules and views if you think those views are correct.

That’s not what Normieism is all about.

This page here is all about Normieism.

I don’t think some of you get it. Normies are assholes! Just because I agree with some of society’s views and that makes me conform does not make me a Normie. There’s nothing wrong with going along with society if you happen to agree, but when society’s views are simply insane, as they often are, then you are an idiot to conform, and you should be smart and reject society.

The problem with Normies is that they go along with society’s rules because they feel that they have to and they are afraid of rejection if they go against them. And they have never stopped to think if society’s rules and views make sense or not. They simply adopt those rules and views without even thinking. Normieism is unbelievably closed-minded and incurious.

Nowadays it is practically Normie to love trannies! To love trannies, gays, bis and whatevers, and whatever sexual perversions and deviancies du jour, to be idiotically “anti-racist,” a race denier, and a gender feminist. All those things are Normie. I get massacred by Normies all the time for violating the SJW/Cultural Left agenda. You either go along with the Cultural Left or you are an evil hater bigot.

Bottom line is SJWism and the Cultural Left nowadays is Normie thinking. The Cultural Left line is the normal, accepted, conforming view for most of society. If I go against the Cultural Left here in my town or even with the people I hang out with, I am going to stir up a hornet’s nest full of troubles.

Even my Mom and siblings are very Cultural Left. They are mostly going along with the whole crazy project – gays, trannies, sexual perversion du jour, genderqueer, being nongender or neither male nor female, and on and on, it’s all a-ok in my family. The attitude is, “Hey, whatever. Let people do whatever they want to. None of this stuff is a serious problem. Any of these people can do whatever they want to along these lines. and it’s nothing to the rest of us or society at large.”

On feminism and race, they go more against Normieism. Two siblings are opposed to gender feminism, and two siblings and my Mom are quite realist on race. There is one sibling that is SJW all the way. In addition, they are sadly the worst feminazi in the family, but most of the time, they never talk about it, so it’s not a problem.

My Mom is very sensitive on gender stuff because she’s female, and she is a gender feminist to some extent. I believe she is “supporting her people.” Normally I think everyone should support their own people, but the feminists take this too far beyond actual support all the way to waging warfare against men. If supporting your people means punching me in the face, I will not support your endeavor. You need to find a better way to support your kind that doesn’t involve hitting me.

159 Comments

Filed under Cultural Marxists, Feminism, Gender Studies, Left, Personality, Psychology

159 responses to “In Our Modern World, The Cultural Left and SJW’s Are Actually Normie Entities

  1. Jason Y

    As I was saying, being tranny is a choice, being a flaming gay is a choice, being mixed raced or seeming like your mixed race is not. Insulting people for stuff of which they have no choice is akin to insulting somebody’s mother.

    So many people hate a normie “fashionably liberal” tryranny, but there are also normie redneck tyrannies kind of like where I went to middle school.

    I got a better idea, why don’t people just mind their own business, especially in regards to stuff nobody has any control over, cause your touching on issues of pride and dignity.

  2. Jason Y

    Most cultures practice being normie. Koreans do, southern USA rednecks do, liberal assholes do. In other words, you have to fall in line with their BS or your punished harshly.

  3. Jason Y

    Saying people have control over stuff might be misleading though. For instance, a pedophile might have a sexual orientation he has no control over. Nonetheless, society cannot tolerate his behavior.

    However, racical heritage is something that isn’t really bothering people, and also people have no control over it, so I see it as off-limits to people wanting to be mean and pick on people.

  4. Jason Y

    sorry some problems with the keyboard: (one misspelling)

    However, racial heritage is something that isn’t really bothering people (at least as far appearance is concerned), and also people have no control over it, so I see it as off-limits to people wanting to be mean and pick on people.

  5. Another William Playfair Web

    This trans sexual stuff is illogical;
    1. The whole notion of switching bathrooms, is because one does not feel comfortable, in the bathroom of the gender he was born to, like he/she is going to the wrong bathroom,
    2. except, under that scenario, you subject others to someone who is still physically of the other gender to that exactly. So it’s super super ironic.

    • Gay State Girl

      Why do we have to specify one age? If I feel like an 85 year old trapped in a 20-ish body why can’t I say so damn it!

      • Another William Playfair Web

        Social security fraud. Follow the money. This whole transgender thing is a serious distraction. Bruce Jenner ran over a guy while drunk, and did this for sympathy points and/or a distraction. Same with this whole bathroom thing.

        Although I can’t help but wonder, even with this transgender issue, why they are trying to help Ann Coulter ?:)

    • Jason Y

      I guess it would depend on whether the transsexual looked like girl or boy. If they look like the other gender, even if they’re the same gender, then that would cause massive problems.

      I mean imagine someone who looks like a man, even though he’s a woman, going into a woman’s bathroom.

  6. Jason Y

    On the lighter side of things,😆 I’m cross eyed, and some students are making fun of me when I look at them. So should I play up this disability to my advantage, or have the school punish the students?

    • Gay State Girl

      Yes yes, demand affirmative action extend to allotting space for visually impaired in the NCAA if you’re interested.🙂

      • Jason Y

        This cross eyed thing isn’t going to hurt my chances at being an airline pilot will it? 😆

        • Gay State Girl

          Dyspraxic fighter pilot is even more, but no one knows what dyspraxia is.

        • Jason Y

          Oh sorry put in wrong comment:

          Cross eyed might mean they can focus on the target better, since the eyes are drawn toward one point.

  7. Jason Y

    My Mom is very sensitive on gender stuff because she’s female, and she is a gender feminist to some extent. I believe she is “supporting her people.” Normally I think everyone should support their own people, but the feminists take this too far beyond actual support all the way to waging warfare against men.

    Racists take pride in thier own people too far by viciously attacking the concept of mixed race and actual mixed race people. They also brew up hatred against other races when the situation doesn’t call for it.

  8. Jason Y

    Even my Mom and siblings are very Cultural Left. They are mostly going along with the whole crazy project – gays, trannies, sexual perversion du jour, genderqueer, being nongender or neither male nor female, and on and on, it’s all a-ok in my family. The attitude is, “Hey, whatever. Let people do whatever they want to. None of this stuff is a serious problem. Any of these people can do whatever they want to along these lines. and it’s nothing to the rest of us or society at large.”

    Gays, trannies etc..are in one group as opposed to mixed race which is a totally different unrelated concept. Only racists (of all races) seem put those two things together as one.

    Finally, in reference to things we can say our choice, tranny stuff etc.., as opposed to being something people are born with, mixed race or some disability, we have to look at things at things logically.

    Well, for one thing, I don’t really like the choice trannies made or gays, but Nazis and the like have created a sub-culture that hates these groups which is even more evil and repulsive than those groups.

    I mean I’d rather live in a queer town anyday as opposed to some town full of racists, and Iv’e been in some. Gay areas are very liveable, tolerant, places, at least in the south USA, but San Francisco might be some freak show.

    • Optimus Prime

      The reason people turn Nazi is because of these aberrations. Nobody wears that identity willingly. The forced acceptance of gay, transsexual, non gender, race denial is the main driving factor behind the so called hate, which is in fact a normal reaction.

      • Jason Y

        But what is race denial? The inability to pick on mixed race people like one would like, or the inability to use racial slurs?

        • Race denial is the notion that there is no such thing as race, that race is not real, that it is a social construct. It’s a made up idea. There are no real human races.

        • Jason Y

          Such an idea that race does exist, could be true, but it’s exxagerated to promote a lot of evil.

          Of course I see Optimus Prime’s idea. There was a guy I knew in high school who is now an incredibly punk angry fellow, even with a college degree. All a reaction cause somebody black did him wrong, somebody gay did him wrong, and he felt like the gay agenda and other (what he thinks are) “sissy” stuff was pushed on him at university, (Having a poor white background as far as parents didn’t help either, and also having only one parent, a mom.,)

          Nonetheless, there are plenty of college kids whom don’t give a shit about agendas at college or just ignore the situation. It seems it takes a really hateful angry personality to really be absorbed to the extent he was.

          However, of course, politics in general is a nasty game, even if it isn’t racial. Perhaps this is an attack on politics and could be expanded to religion.

        • Jason Y

          I think again, as I mentioned with the far right college student, some people due to a really poor environment of some sort are more drawn into hate then other people. You could take someone from good background, and they might not like the gay or tranny agenda, but they really just don’t get absorbed into the anger.

          In fact, there might even be students at unviersity who aren’t against inter-racial marriage, but they choose due to tradition to date thier own race. Again, they’re just not aborbed into anger enough to where they feel actually threatened by stuff that’s different.

        • Jason Y

          It seems like people who are that full of anger like that kid need an outlet, maybe sports etc… Most guys are into a lot of activity so they kind of sweat out all that stress from stuff of which some they might find disturbing. I don’t think there is a need to be that uptight and douchebag-like so to speak.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Such an idea that race does exist, could be true, but it’s exxagerated to promote a lot of evil.

          Race is real, but honestly so called “race realists” often times have no idea what they are talking about.

          I.E., the Mexican, Jewish and “Latinate” “races”

          “Latinate”
          lol

        • Jason Y

          Possibly racists vastly exxagerate race because they’re pushing a political agenda. It would be like how liberals would exxagerate certain things to push thier agenda.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          of course.

  9. Hitler had the solution but the Anglo-Cucks ruined everything.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      Hitler wanted a uniform society, more than anyone.

      If someone would want to wreck European diaspora Society, they would try to divide us, which is exactly what the Alt-Right alleges Jews and others are doing.

      Conformity has been on the wane since the Anglo-Sphere fell to the Jews (Jews hated more by Hitler) so I don’t know what you are talking about…..

      • Jason Y

        Hitler was just some psycho reaction to Communism more than some racist reaction. Think about it. You had Stalin next door preaching revolution. The USSR was the first successful anti-capitalist state and ruling classes everywhere were scared.

        So I can’t see no difference in Hitler and some rinky dink right wing dictator in Latin America, except Hitler had real working resources at his disposal.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          So I can’t see no difference in Hitler and some rinky dink right wing dictator in Latin America

          Jason, my family, was part of the criollos (or in my case British) elite in Cuba/Carribbean. I think much behavior of Latin American dicatators is despicable, but they never expressed the desire to wipe out the Amerinds/Blacks.

          Without them, who would do the tough work?

          PART of the reason Latin American right-wingers get such a bad rap, is because unlike U.S. elites they didn’t toy with the “White man’s burden” crap, they just owned up to the FACT that they were exploiting these people.

        • Jason Y

          Possibly the far right in Anglo America wants to wipe out dark skinned groups because they believe the US is a light skinned nation. On the other hand, Latin America has always been a mixed raced and/or non-white area.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Possibly the far right in Anglo America wants to wipe out dark skinned groups because they believe the US is a light skinned nation. On the other hand, Latin America has always been a mixed raced and/or non-white area.
          I’m talking about things like the Dole Fruit Company and their Guatemalan exports.
          And it’s great that White America wants America to be White, and think that Latin Americans have no right to complain,
          but, it’s like
          the U.S. and Canada were completely uninhabited pre-Jamestown?
          right?

          So they’re still somewhat hypocrites.

        • Jason Y

          PART of the reason Latin American right-wingers get such a bad rap, is because unlike U.S. elites they didn’t toy with the “White man’s burden” crap, they just owned up to the FACT that they were exploiting these people.

          Possibly the far right in Latin America doesn’t want to come across as too pompous or anti-white cause they want some of the slaves, so to speak, to support them. Note in these banana republics the elites need a certain percentage or working class support to function.

        • Jason Y

          Some supporters of the white man’s burden Idea think mixed race is a good idea. They think mating with so called lower races makes them then more intellegent, hence they’re doing them a favor.

          You might find some sickos like that who might travel to third world nations for sex, or of course we saw that back in the US during Negro slavery (Thomas Jefferson etc..)

        • Jason Y

          Note I’m not saying mixed race is wrong or evil, but that some men might want to screw other races due to some racist notion they’re doing them a favor genetically.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          You might find some sickos like that who might travel to third world nations for sex, or of course we saw that back in the US during Negro slavery (Thomas Jefferson etc..)

          Well that’s just it, Jason.
          Blacks in the U.S. and Mestizos, are, according to outside web sources, about the same percentage White, so it’s not like the Spanish were that much worse of rapists.

        • Jason Y

          Most of the mixing before the Civil Rights in the US might have been rape, but afterwards there was a lot of black and white couples by choice. Of course, before the Civil Rights era there may have been Amerindian and black mixing by choice as no laws did forbid it. For instance, Michael Jackson’s family, Tina Turner, and several other black musical groups had Cherokee ancestery etc..

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Yes, but by that logic, their was always some voluntary race mixing in Latin America (mix with mix or mix with pure) since almost the beginning.

        • Jason Y

          Race mixing is fun. It isn’t evil or wrong. People always want the exotic. However, if some people feel like certain races are going extinct and they choose (without forcing others to do the same) to date their own race, then that’s their call.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      Hitler was a complete con-man just like the modern day Alt-Righters

      and my Great Nordic Master Race fell for it, and is falling for it now, and will over and over again.

      I always like to say that Asians don’t act that way, and they do less than Whites, who do less than Blacks, but they are still bad.

      It’s because humans are inherently evil

      • Jason Y

        Generally the whole racist thing is taken way too far. For instance, mixed race couples and mixed kids aren’t really a big deal, only when racists make them a big deal. As for the gay stuff, most if it is easily ignored.

        Isn’t it sad when mixed raced kids get bullied because some jerk associates them with gay people and other weird stuff he hates.

        So actually I’m glad for the sake of mixed race kids, that our media and whatnot is ruled by Jews, even if the Jews are controlling things from a sinister or selfish motive. A tolerant and loving society is the best way to go. Nazis have never been for tolerance or freedom.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          So actually I’m glad for the sake of mixed race kids, that our media and whatnot is ruled by Jews, even if the Jews are controlling things from a sinister or selfish motive. A tolerant and loving society is the best way to go. Nazis have never been for tolerance or freedom.

          If we just stopped immigration here, and went Giuliani style with crime in all major cities, we’d be on a sustainable path, and better than where we were under the Anglo-Saxon American elite.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        Not all humans are evil, but humans are inherently so, it’s just that some manage to overcome their evilness.
        That’s why on personality test/ psychological exam type questions, I answer “most humans are bad with a few good”

        • Jason Y

          The error with white racists (and really all racists) is they think morals come from genetics and they don’t. Human beings don’t have a moral compass. Therefore, I think the status quo of freedom and tolerance is the best, as it safeguards against tyranny.

  10. Another William Playfair Web

    “Therefore, I think the status quo of freedom and tolerance is the best, as it safeguards against tyranny.”

    I talked about people being able to overcome their inherent evilness/lack of a moral compass/darwinian nature and form their own, per se.

    The people that can do this, are, disproportionately smarter than the median, so that’s my one time to step outside my centre-left economic views, it’s that libertarianism does have some attractions to me, at least compared to highly corruptible Authoritarian Marxism and of course, Fascism.

    I agree with this; “The error with white racists (and really all racists) is they think morals come from genetics and they don’t. Human beings don’t have a moral compass. “, of course.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      In Libertariaism the smarter people, disprop. represent those with a semblance of a self-formed moral compass, bubble to the top…

      • Jason Y

        Libertarianism is incredibly dangerous, but less so than fascism, cause there is no control over capitalists.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          At least there’s no structure for the brain dead violent evil mobs to be funneled through, as much.

          Even in war torn, basically Anarchial parts of Sierra Leone, the Insurgents/Liberian armies/armed “refugees” had to initiate slayings…
          all at the behest of the head of Liberia, for his diamonds.

          Even the -2SD from the White mean Sierra Leoneans wouldn’t initiate ethnic violence.
          Rwanda was even more government supervised.

  11. Jason Y

    Possibly the far right in Anglo America wants to wipe out dark skinned groups because they believe the US is a light skinned nation. On the other hand, Latin America has always been a mixed raced and/or non-white area.
    I’m talking about things like the Dole Fruit Company and their Guatemalan exports.
    And it’s great that White America wants America to be White, and think that Latin Americans have no right to complain,
    but, it’s like
    the U.S. and Canada were completely uninhabited pre-Jamestown?
    right?

    So they’re still somewhat hypocrites.

    Disease had wiped out so many Amerinidans in Anglo America that you can’t really say the whites stole anything from them. They were already finished by the time Jamestown took root.

    If we just stopped immigration here, and went Giuliani style with crime in all major cities, we’d be on a sustainable path, and better than where we were under the Anglo-Saxon American elite.

    I’m not for more immigration to the US, but I’m not for banning inter-racial marriage either, nor deporting legal people already here.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      Yes, people act like it’s so terrible here now adays.
      It’s pretty sweet, it’s just WN nutcases insecure that some coloreds’ are smarter than them.
      So it’s all in their head, to a certain extent.
      We can do a few minor things and this “demographic crisis” should end up fine.

      The Alt-Right is full of cliche “drama queens“….

      • Jason Y

        No actually the US is in a golden age. For instance the internet didn’t exist when I was a kid in the 1980s. Things aren’t so bad, so why is everyone so angry?

        • Another William Playfair Web

          No actually the US is in a golden age.

          “Dat’s what I was telling you before…..”

        • Jason Y

          A lot of things aren’t as bad as they seem, and if they are bad is cause people are so lazy. They’re too lazy to work and/or get an education, even when the fact they are a US citizen gives them so many free breaks, and also you have free education on YouTube.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          they’re spoiled
          They came from that type of background, and there massive egos (unjustly sized) are probably what led them to being a WN.
          Case in point;
          That’s why the average White doesn’t want to have anything to do with the WNs
          1. They possibly have it good,
          or
          2. The average non-WN White isn’t delusional; he/she realize that the WNs are poor stupid cr@ckers. You have to go through mental gymnastics to deny that is the norm among WNs.

  12. Jason Y

    they’re spoiled
    They came from that type of background, and there massive egos (unjustly sized) are probably what led them to being a WN.
    Case in point;
    That’s why the average White doesn’t want to have anything to do with the WNs
    1. They possibly have it good,
    or
    2. The average non-WN White isn’t delusional; he/she realize that the WNs are poor stupid cr@ckers. You have to go through mental gymnastics to deny that is the norm among WNs.

    Defintely the college student I mentioned has serious personality issues, possibly, as William noted, coming from the fact he views himself as more important than he really is.

    Possibly a stint in basic training would so someone like that good, to wake them up.

    Actually I knew two people like that. One was a punk as teenager but grew out of it and went into bodybuilding, but the other one is the guy I mentioned who is still trapped in this really angry phase.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      The Army has been regarded in pop culture as the place where White Nationalism dies.
      Yes, the training is tough.
      You have to work with Coloreds’

      Also, Banging those hot Asian and Arab temptresses in nearby cities (before going into battle, like the guys going into Nam’ at Okinawa) changes that😉

      • Jason Y

        Generally a lot of guys, including most WNs, are wusses before going into the Army

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Well, apparently a lot of Southern guys, whose dads and grandaddies were in the Klan, went to fight in Korea, and seeing the advanced nature of NorthEast Asian civilization, and probably having flings with non-White women, completely flipped.

          That was the good ole boy traditional cons, not these pagan keyboard warriors, so they probably weren’t quite as much of wusses back then.

        • Jason Y

          Yeah definitely people are racist cause they’re ignorant of other cultures having never traveled. But you can say the same for Chinese etc.. They’re very closed minded, mainly cause most of them have never been anywhere.

        • Jason Y

          Iv’e always wondered why people expect whites to be open minded and tolerant when other races aren’t. Not saying though that being open minded and tolerant is a bad thing though, not in the least bit.

          Your typical foriegner when living in his own nation and unexposed to travel, is annoyingly common and racist.

          For instance your typical Filipino cannot watch any show or movie about blacks without some negative or smartass comment.

        • Jason Y

          The root of a lot of the hatred is jealousy of the traveler. People never venture outside these woods here, so they love to call people gook lovers or international elitist snobs. They assume anyone who travels thinks thier better than back home people.

        • Jason Y

          Anyone who breaks out of the mold and does anything spectacular is going to run into haters. It’s inevitable. It can be so bad that you have to literally avoid certain people and areas for life.

    • Jason Y

      Actually those spoiled personalities always try to make it seem like you have the problem, when they do.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        I have personality problems,
        but I know I do.

        Honestly, how can being part of the White race, not even the smartest race, produce ALL your self esteem.

        Seriously demented people.

        • Jason Y

          Notice comically that they have no place for any humility. Note at school, army, workplace etc.. nobody likes arrogant people. Plus it’s a wonder if they’re really as superior as they let on. I mean, do they all look like bodybuilders and have IQs of Einstein?

        • Another William Playfair Web

          They think they do.
          That’s why hard-core racism is associated among outsiders with mental illness.

          The less extreme types, like some commenters on here, are the opposite, they believe everything bad is the fault of the coloreds’ and can do no wrong.
          Hard to tell which is better to be honest, although I personally lean towards the Coloreds’ are bad type versus the Whites are chosen by god type, because the Coloreds’ are bad type, now they are being terrible people, and have the ability to show some self restraint.
          Plus, that’s less attractive to the masses.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          now they are terrible people should be know they are terrible people
          oops.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Einstein was the greatest Nordic of all time, NOT A JEW.

          Jews steal our great stuff!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
          Trumpity Trumpity Trumpity. Ted Croos is a mud. Obama from Kenya. grunt.grunt.

        • Gay State Girl

          Didn’t you know Einstein was a Fraud.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Einstein, wasn’t a fraud! He just wasn’t a Jew!
          Just like Jesus!

        • Jason Y

          One problem with Phil’s thinking is that the brain abnormalities are not present with most or definitely not ALL blacks, or most or ALL of them would be behind bars. A lot of blacks are behind bars though.

        • Again, I do not. All I ever stated was that they have higher rates compared to whites and their is genetic reason why.

          Show me a link or anything to prove me wrong. If not then find, i’ll have a hypothetical debate based on no links because since I already know the logic behind it it should your repetitive inconsistency.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Phil-
          Apparently Blacks are more often Schizophrenics, and of course are more verbal as opposed to spatial thinkers, so they don’t think quite as logically, and are more pre-disposed to delusions/ lack of perception, etc.

          I think that’s where this stigma comes from.

        • “Phil-
          Apparently Blacks are more often Schizophrenics, and of course are more verbal as opposed to spatial thinkers, so they don’t think quite as logically, and are more pre-disposed to delusions/ lack of perception, etc.

          I think that’s where this stigma comes from.”

          I’ve heard of this likely from the same guy you have, PP.

          I agree, this developed from living in an environment where you think “more in the now” rather than long term such as in most of Eurasia.

          However, some areas in Africa produce some exceptional tribes in regards to this issue.

        • Jm8

          To Phil:
          Many of these tribes may be in the Savannah Sahel region (or have a fairly recent origin there ie within the last few thousand years or less) and may not necessarily be so exceptional in some of those areas, where dry periods require a significant amount of food storage (and thus more planning, at least in that area of life) for survival
          Much of sub-saharan west Africa, both the sahel and savannah regions; has a significant dry season lasting roughly half the year when little food can be grown, hunting traditionally increases (as also in hunter-gatherer times) and in preparation for which grain must be stored in traditional granaries and yam barns, etc.
          The savannah and sahel form a large belt, which includes for example: Mali, Senegal, Burkina Faso, the Northern and central Parts of Ghana and Nigeria, Niger at the western end. The semi (seasonally) arid-grassland regions of east Africa including much Kenya, Sudan and Tanzania have their own significant dry seasons (as do parts of Southern Africa, the wettest place being Central Africa).
          The border “ecotones, between the forest and savannah (and parts of the northern forest are this way (to a lesser extent).
          Niger-Congo languages/peoples in general probably originate in the Savannah (perhaps Mali or near Chad), but as some early Niger-Congo groups moved south (more the earliest waves), they mixed with native/longer resident (now extinct/absorbed), likely proto Pygmy-like peoples in some of the forests of W. Africa, and adapted to the region. The Bantu branch of Niger Congo-peoples of course later encountered Pygmies in Central Africa.
          Nil0-Saharans originate somewhere in the Savannah as well.
          Still, a few of the more succesfull tribes (at least at this time), live in the Central African forest zone/W, bordering the C. African forest: like the Bamileke (and their close, Cameroon- grassfield dwelling neighbors/relatives) the Nande, certain tribes of S. E. Nigeria (e.g.: the long resident Ijoid tribes and the Semi-Bantu Ibibio and Efik. The Igbo belong to the West Benue Congo language group which is a relatively later arriving branch from the savannah. Most other W. Benue Congo tribes still live in the drier savannah or forest border zone), and at least historically; the BaKuba and some branches of the Luba and Bakongo, and the BaGanda/BaNyoro. I’m not sure quite how they’re doing in recent times, as far as I know not as well as the Bamileke or Nande). But environments vary within thin region (as you mentioned in your second post on the Southern Niger-Delta tribes).
          Some genetic studies detect this pygmy-like admixture (in some W. Africans). Interestingly, one study found dna supposedly more Khoisan-like than Pygmy-like in S. E. Nigerians, from absorbed hunter-gatherers(presumable from a very distinct/long diverged now extinct group or race native to parts of forest-zone W. Africa, that nonetheless had some khoisan-like affinites. But the study is early and may not hold up.

        • Jm8

          “Most other W. Benue Congo tribes, like the Yoruba, Edo, and Igala, still live in the drier savannah or forest border zone, as do Gbe speaking tribes like the Fon and Ewe. ) I believe the Gbe and the Akan/Ashanti branches are later arriving too (to the forest). Apparently West Benue-Congo is also sometimes called “Volta-Niger”.

        • Jm8

          Edit(s):
          “…(as also in hunter-gatherer times, when gathering plant staples became difficult—sometimes very much so-impossible)…
          ….
          “…the BaKuba and some branches of the Luba and Bakongo, and the BaGanda and BaNyoro. I’m not sure quite how those last five are doing in recent times, as far as I know not as well as the Bamileke, Nande, or those certain S.E Nigerian groups)”

        • To Jm8,

          I concur with your statement on what areas/tribes you speak of that posses these qualities and seems very consistent with my findings in old ethnology. The thing was that they distinguished Muslims ( called Mohammedans) from Pagan ones, noticing their differences.

          The BaKuba I read stated that they came from the Northeast of their current position in the DRC, which is consistent with their physiology being said, under close observation, to share affinities with the Azande, A Nilosaharan mixed tribe.

          The Igboid langauages originated from the Savannah? Well, this makes sense because based on my observations the ones East of the Niger (Awka) seem different from ones like Onitsha (significant Bini influence) and Asaba (Igala and somesort of lowland tribe influence, I believe from a place named Otagu.) The Awka Blacksmiths described By Thomas Northcote were said to be very wealthy.

          Ones in the Forest exist show such traits due to basically living in “pockets” of distinct dry elevation and likely less productive soil.

          The Pygmy-like Admixture in some West Africans seems interesting, I recall some old documents claiming such a race existed but dwindle being said to have “red skin”. However the ancestry that was detected in SE Nigeria being closer to the Khoisan is more surprising.

          Now, my guess is that that original African HG populations were closest to the Khoisan before the differentiated into a group more like the Pygmy populations of today. Thus, the ones that used to live in SE were likely more basal compared to others but that’s only my guess.

          What regions had admixture closer to forest types?

        • Jm8

          To Phil:

          “The BaKuba I read stated that they came from the Northeast of their current position in the DRC, which is consistent with their physiology being said, under close observation, to share affinities with the Azande, A Nilosaharan mixed tribe.”
          I believe this is an outdated theory (really a speculation not a theory, occasionally made by some Victorian writers. Most/many others (including, Victorians/Edwardians though, described them physically as ordinary local “negro” types of a regional variety). There are of course some cases of Nilo-Saharan-Bantu interaction/mixture (and with other Branches of Niger-Congo like Azande and Adamawa-Ubangian) in some parts of Central Africa (generally east of the Kuba zone).
          There is no evidence of the Kuba linguistically or ethnologically (being especially exotic, for the region), The Bakuba are Western Bantu etho/linguistically as is/was their elite/royal dialect, known as “Lambil/Lambila” (confirmed to be by more recent scholars/linguists. Lambil is basically just archaic Kuba), and it is specifically of the Mongo branch which includes nearby Lele, Ndegese, and Tetela.) The Bakuba rise dates from the beginning (some aspects maybe earlier) of their kingdom in the 15-1600s. Their culture evolves from Bantu precedents. Anthropologist Mary Douglas has a good essay (most is available in google books) contrasting them (factoring in differing histories/natural environments) with their less advanced neighbors and relatives, the Lele. Jan Vansina has many good/important books on them too.

          “The Igboid langauages originated from the Savannah? Well, this makes sense because based on my observations the ones East of the Niger (Awka) seem different from ones like Onitsha (significant Bini influence) …”

          The West Benue Congo/Volta Niger languages in general (which include the Igbo, Edo/Bini, Yoruba, and Igala (and others, see languages of Nigeria map), originate from the savannah relatively recently (I think about within the last 2-4,000 years depending on the branch, some much earlier than others) Now (to give a few examples of tribes and their current locations) most Edo subgroups live in the N. forest of border zone, the Yoruba in the Northern forest-border zone,the Igala in the border zone-savannah, and the Nupe in the South Savannah). Igboid, among W. Benue Congo branches, extends the furthest south/ancestral Igboid went the further south (except for maybe Itsekri) and mixed most with pre-existing forest peoples. W. Benue Congo is a late arrival in Southern/southermost Nigeria compared to other branches of Niger Congo; like South Benue Congo (which includes Bantu) and especially compared to Ijoid (Ijaw, spoken in S.E Nigeria; the S. Niger delta in Rivers State), which is the oldest branch (oldest known surviving language group) in that area. Ijo is one of the oldest diverging/most distinct ranches of Niger-Congo, along with Mande(which is based in mostly in Mali/S. E Mauritania Gambia)
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Languages_of_Nigeria

          “The Pygmy-like Admixture in some West Africans seems interesting, I recall some old documents claiming such a race existed but dwindle being said to have “red skin”. However the ancestry that was detected in SE Nigeria being closer to the Khoisan is more surprising.”

          The Pygmy-like admixture detected is generally small, but it could be evidence of an affinity in a now extinct group that was somewhat different/distinct from Pygmies.

          “Now, my guess is that that original African HG populations were closest to the Khoisan before the differentiated into a group more like the Pygmy populations of today. ”
          Could be.

          “Thus, the ones that used to live in SE were likely more basal compared to others but that’s only my guess.”
          That is possible, but there is not too much evidence ether way yet. More than one group might have been present in the broad general area.

        • Jm8

          To Phil:

          Just to clarify(my perhaps vague wording): I think the Pygmy like admixture is mostly in (certain) Forest (esp southern forest) zone West Africans. Though smaller (trace) amounts may show up (or seem to) in some others.

        • Jm8

          “…The Pygmy-like admixture detected is generally small, but its signals could be evidence of an affinity in a now extinct (probably mostly forest) West African HG group/groups that was somewhat different/distinct from Pygmies. Thus said admixture could be a little underestimated in some groups.

        • Jm8

          ….Douglas has a good essay…. contrasting them (factoring in differing histories/natural environments) with their less advanced neighbors and close relatives, the Lele (the Lele were less advanced than many other tribes in Central Africa, and the Kuba/Bushong more so).

        • “The Bakuba rise dates from the beginning (some aspects maybe earlier) of their kingdom in the 15-1600s. Their culture evolves from Bantu precedents. Anthropologist Mary Douglas has a good essay (most is available in google books) contrasting them (factoring in differing histories/natural environments) with their less advanced neighbors and relatives, the Lele. Jan Vansina has many good/important books on them too.”

          Well that tells us about their culture, but what about their actual physiology? It is possible that they simply adopted those elements into their culture but I do admit that little traces of their “old language”, had they been migrants, be present in their language and habits.

          And you said tribes of such a composition existed east from where the Kuba live but I technically said they migrated from a different position. I even read material that measure facial features and the matched the Azande closer than other central African groups.

        • To Jm8,

          Also, and correct me if I’m wrong, but whle you give dares to when the Kingdom existed that’s still later to when the ethnicity itself existed, which was said to go back to around 400 A.D. In addition before that they weren’t a single entity but a collection of united tribes formerly segmented, so it possible their was some variation between these groups such as you would have with Igbos.

        • Jm8

          “Well that tells us about their culture, but what about their actual physiology? It is possible that they simply adopted those elements into their culture but I do admit that little traces of their “old language”, had they been migrants, be present in their language and habits.”

          They belong to a family of cultures native to Central Africa (the Mongo branch of Western Bantu, as mentioned). As far as I know there is no evidence of a non-Bantu origin (though there is some evidence of influence from the kingdom of Kongo to the west) One would expect (as you say) at least a trace in their culture. And if they became totally indistinguishable from natives culturally, they would not likely stay very distinct in appearance. If there is a difference, local divergence/variation might be more likely.). Jan Vansina’s books (“Children of Woot”, Kingdoms of the Savanna”, “How Societies Are Born: Governance in West Central Africa before 1600”, “Paths in the Rainforests: Toward a History of Political Tradition in Equatorial Africa” trace their evolution from the ancestral Mongo and C. African Bantu (and the origins of other C. African groups), and are quite detailed and interesting/informative.
          “I even read material that measure facial features and the matched the Azande closer than other central African groups.”
          I have not heard of measurements, only visual impressions. The parallels were posited before the existence of modern linguistics, archaeology, etc.
          Anyway, measuring facial features (depending on how significant the tendency) is not always the most scientific (or at least a very uncertain one, though it can provide strong suggestions) way of determining origin (at least in the absence of any other corroborating evidence, and there is none that I know of in the case of the Kuba). The Azande probably been in Central Africa for a long time (they are a very distinct branch of Niger-Congo), and there may not be that much phenotypically different about them—though I could be wrong (most likely differences in Azandes are subtle, though there may be some.)
          Anyway, the Azande are Niger-Congo, not Nilo-Saharan, but they have interacted with the Nilo-Saharan Mangbetu. The Mangbetu arrived in their recent location centuries after the Kuba formed as an ethnic group the 18th century). But the Azande though may have been present a lot earlier.
          I guess an Azande connection could be possible. There just isn’t any evidence(in recent scholarship) I’m aware of.

        • Jm8

          “Also, and correct me if I’m wrong, but whle you give dares to when the Kingdom existed that’s still later to when the ethnicity itself existed, which was said to go back to around 400 A.D. In addition before that they weren’t a single entity but a collection of united tribes formerly segmented, ”

          I think this is about right, yes.

        • Jm8

          Correction:
          Children of Woot” and Kingdoms of the Savanna” are (mainly) about the Kuba, but “How Societies Are Born: Governance in West Central Africa before 1600” is about another region, and “Paths in the Rainforests: Toward a History of Political Tradition in Equatorial Africa is about the early Bantu in general) with sections on the evolution on different Central African Bantu groups, including the Mongo and Kuba, and their evolution from their early ancestors.

        • I was looking back at my source and I stand corrected, the Azande were only compared to Oromos in terms of behavior and not in physical traits.

          I will look at the bakuba later during convenience.

        • Jm8

          Edit: “The Mangbetu arrived in their recent location centuries after the Kuba formed as an ethnic group, in the 18th century)”
          i.e. The 18th century is when the Mangbetu arrived.

        • https://books.google.com/books?id=kY5FAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA216&lpg=PA216&dq=bakuba+negroes+caucasian&source=bl&ots=y6z04zeuXs&sig=VtA6031t96sE7v8YohAC6TSdKfI&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjCor7fsOHMAhUpzoMKHZBhBMIQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=bakuba%20negroes%20caucasian&f=false

          This contains info on semi-caucasian infusion into the congo (I guess this would be nilosaharan), and they were believed to be in both the Azande and Bakuba to an extent but perhaps not majority.

          Also it supplies a photo of what the invader phentypically looked like on page 516. Personally, I don;t find it very caucasian but it does have isolated features similar to them. Basically here’s their conjecture

          “But though the Hamitic or Hima element found a fresh focus of and influence in the lands Between Sankuru and Kasai It had obviously thither some seven or eight hundred years ago or earlier from the country clubs west the Victoria Nyanza and of course Ultimately from Galaland or the Nile valley.”

          About how “white” are nilosaharans are generally?

        • “But it is a great mistake to class all the Nyamnyam (Azande) people as negroid The bulk of them are of the average black Sudan type Which is a varying degree of intermixture Between Forest black and Nilotic With an occasional suggestion of Congo Pygmy or Hottentot” p. 537

          So they likely mixed with Nilosaharans as well. My guess is due to the lack of language and cultural evidence for the Bakuba and Azande was that Bantu element made the culture yet it was the foreign elements that were absorbed?

          All and all, bith groups seem to be predominately “black” and the only other trace would be East African or Nilosaharan likely controbuting just minor but noticeable “caucasian” traits.

        • To Jm8,

          “The tradition Among the Baqouba Is That They Came from the north east and Settled down as conquerors on the banks of the Sankuru That They Were one people eleven With the Basonge now dwelling to the east of them and That When They crossed the Sankuru and advanced towards the Lulua and Kasai They ran up Against the Baluba coming from the south east.” 516

          https://books.google.com/books?id=DRBJAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA736&lpg=PA736&dq=bakuba+negroes&source=bl&ots=BIyd1TiqAm&sig=ATOE_9NCl_u7NSwJz2fV50e0BHA&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwih3f2YxuHMAhVE94MKHYECC5wQ6AEIHDAA#v=onepage&q=bakuba%20negroes&f=false

          “The natives of the Congo Represent two main types physical Pygmies and Negroes. The Pygmies are sprinkled over the part of the equatorial forest often living in close contact with dominant the dominate Negroes .eg With the Baqouba in the southwest the Mangbettu in the northeast”

          If the Mangebettue reside in the NE like how the Kuba describe themselves then that would explain where they may have gotten their foreign element from.

        • Jm8

          “About how “white” are nilosaharans are generally?”
          Not white at all usually. The Azande (and Mangbetu) are quite negroid (very “black”), as are most Nilo-Saharan groups. A few tribes of the eastern Nilotic subgroup of the Nilotic branch (of Nilo-Saharan) in Kenya and Tanzania have minor-moderate Cushitic admixture ,like the Massai (the Massai are about 14% Causasian/Eurasian) and Turkana. But most Cushitic tribes from S. Ethiopia are fairly large majority subsaharan anyway ,more so than than Somalis and Amharas/Tigrinyas/Oromos, who at about 40-30% Eurasian are the among most “White” of Cushitic/horn African people (they mostly live closer to Eurasia than other tribes), who otherwise tend to be closer to 15-25%. The vast majority of Nilotic groups however are not admixed. Those in the central-southern Sudan(close to the Nilo-Saharan homeland) are not admixed (nor are non-Nilotic Nilo-Saharans like the Fur and Massalit from Central Sudan. And those (non-Nilotic Nilosaharans from Northern Chad and North East Niger are very minimally so. Nubians (who don’t live very close to other many Nilo-Saharan groups) from the north part of Nubia near Egypt are somewhat mixed (a minority fraction but sometimes a significant one, and some of this likely comes from the last millennia or so.) and Nubians toward the Southern part of North Sudan and North Central Sudan (the historic center of Nubian civilization: from the oldest neolithic chiefdoms in the nile valley: at Al Kadada, Kadero, Esh Shaheineb, etc: the bronze age; the Kerma culture of central Nubia, to later Meroe in South Nubia near Khartoum) are probably significantly less mixed (unfortunately, many of the genetic studies with Nubians focus on Northern Nubian subgroups near the Egyptian border)
          Most Nilo-Saharan groups that ended up in Central Africa came form the South Sudan (like the Luo, related to the Dinka and Nuer of Sudan). Others Belong more disparate branches, like Central Sudanic. Neither are admixed Nilo-Saharan is a very old and diverse group. Some linguists dispute that all posited branches are really one group at all.
          Non-Subsaharan admixture in Nilo-Saharans is generally extremely low-absent except in a few atypical tribes (like Nubians and the Massai).
          This contains info on semi-caucasian infusion into the congo (I guess this would be nilosaharan)”
          Nilo-Saharans are not “semi-Caucasian or anything close. Most Cushitic tribes are just barely semi-Caucasian at most (like Somalis, others less.)

          “But though the Hamitic or Hima element found a fresh focus of and influence in the lands Between Sankuru and Kasai It had obviously thither some seven or eight hundred years ago or earlier from the country clubs west the Victoria Nyanza and of course Ultimately from Galaland or the Nile valley.”
          The Hima are not in the area of the Kuba (they live mostly in Rwanda and Burundi. They are of mixed Bantu/Nilotic/Cushitic origin) and have not had contact with them(as far as I know) nor really with the Azande further north east. There is no evidence noteworthy presence in those places (or any really).

          “But it is a great mistake to class all the Nyamnyam (Azande) people as negroid The bulk of them are of the average black Sudan type Which is a varying degree of intermixture Between Forest black and Nilotic With an occasional suggestion of Congo Pygmy or Hottentot”
          Nilotics are negroid, albeit usually of a different type than Central African Bantus or (any of the various types of ) forest zone West Africans (“Forest black” presumably). The early writers had a too narrow definition of negroid (centering it on Western and central African types), and tended to attribute a wide range of physical and cultural traits to non-African influences (mostly unjustified/greatly overestimated in light of modern archaeology, anthropology, linguistics and genetics.)
          Likely at most (in the case of East Central Africa specifically) there were some minor Cushitic, but more Nilotic influences on the East Central African/Great Lakes Bantu of Rwanda/Burundi (but not as much in neighboring Buganda), and most of these influences were not foundational but relatively late. Chiefdoms and polities in this area begin much earlier with the early eastern Bantu (from the Urewe culture on).
          “Bantu element made the culture yet it was the foreign elements that were absorbed?”
          This may be true of the Azande, since they were influenced by the Mangbetu (except the Azande are not Bantu, but a very different branch of Niger Congo that reached Central Africa separately from Bantu).
          It could also be said of some cultures of the East Central African Great Lakes (Rwanda, Bunyoro, BuHaya). But it’s not really true the Kuba as far as we know.

        • Jm8

          A few more superficial traits likely tricked in from (possibly) Nilo-Saharans (at a relative recent time, post medieval) to the Kuba area. The African throwing knife (which they and some of their neighbors used is thought to come from near S. Sudan or South Chad (invented by Nilo-Saharans or a nearby Niger-Congo group like the ancestral Azande or Adamawa-Ubangians. But this would not speak to origins or substantial influences any more ( and perhaps less) than the adoption of the stirrup of crossbow (indirectly) from Asia by Europeans in the Byzantine era.

        • Jm8

          “The tradition Among the Baqouba Is That They Came from the north east…”
          The north east may mean a from a north eastern direction within the Kasai or general region. A relatively isolated and primitive people (by modern standards) may have a very “small scale” perspective of geography, if this claim is reliable. Vansina probably addressed it, but don’t remember what he said exactly. It think the general agreement is that Mongo peoples (of which the Kuba are one) came to the Kasai (finding earlier arriving bantu subgroups like the Luba and Kete) from somewhere near the Congo river region (which is a little to the north of the Kassai). Some Mongo (Mongo is also a specific tribe.) tribes still live in the Congo river region (I think the “Mongo family is also called Bantu Zone C. by linguists. Bantu subgroups are sometimes given letter designations.).

        • To jm8,

          Everything you have said so far makes sense. For example, while ancestral traits were clearly observed by the explorers between the ruling and common class of Mangbettu I have not heard of the same with the Bakuba Phenotypically speaking.

          Also, correct me if I’m wrong, but weren’t both the Azande AND the Bakuba known for having elaborate and efficient throwing knives, such reputation being the Namesake of the latter (Boshongo)? The Mangbetu were also very well known for their abilities of in crafting metal implements, thus leading me to believe that possible traces of Nilo-saharan in the other tribes may’ve been through them but as you said were likely not fundamental. This likely spawned from the want of metal implements thus diffusion may’ve caused a shift in phenotypes (definitely possible sense the groups varied in appearance to begin with). This could be similar to Aka pygmies changing phenotype due to working under Mangbetu people, hybrids being said to be common. So the source of this could be likely economic.

          With all that in mind, of course they were majority black of course.

          As for the likely comment of South Sudanese being the groups to disperse into Central Africa seems consistent with with my finding on the Azande, though some Gallas seem to be likely candidates as well.

          I couldn’t agree more that they had a rather limited idea of “black” then with more in efficient taxonomies.

        • Jm8

          “this likely spawned from the want of metal implements…”

          Ironworking long predated this in Central Africa. The throwing knife probably spread because it was an especially effective weapon (for certain groups).
          “The linguist Christopher Ehret argues that the first words for iron-working in Bantu languages were borrowed from Central Sudanic languages, probably somewhere in the vicinity of modern Uganda and Kenya,[18] while Jan Vansina[19] argues instead that they originated in non-Bantu languages in Nigeria, and that iron metallurgy spread southwards and eastwards to speakers of Bantu languages, which had already dispersed into the Congo rainforest and into the Great Lakes region.”
          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_metallurgy_in_Africa

          Vansina’s theory is likely correct (Proto-Bantus, leaving the Cameroon region near 3,000 bc, did not yet have iron, but most got it within the next 2,000 years from W. Africa. A few far flung Bantu groups could have received it from Nilo Saharans too, but usually Bantus are the first to have it in East Africa). Recent Ironworking dates at Lejja, S. E Nigeria are about 2000 bc. (strongly suggesting independent invention in W. Africa before other places. Nok, Central Nigeria has dates of about 1,000 BC (or perhaps lately a little earlier. The culture itself is now dated from 13-1600 bc at its known start by Peter Breunig and other German archaeologists)
          http://www.academia.edu/4103707/Iron_and_its_influence_on_the_prehistoric_site_of_Lejja

        • Jm8

          Edit: “…but usually Bantus are the first to have it (iron) in the parts of East Africa where they eventually settled…”

        • To Jm8,

          By metal implements I meant the techniques that the Mangbettu were capable of, not the ability itself.

      • Jason Y

        Irish co-teacher I worked with overseas was like that. A guy I knew back in school who’d give me trouble was like that. Generally I can get a long with most real men though. Wusses? No.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          what would you define as a “wuss” a macho man who is actually a baby?
          If a man is somewhat effiminate/physically weak there’s no reason to dislike him, but if he acts otherwise and harms others to compensate, then there is a problem.

        • Jason Y

          A wuss can even be a bodybulder. He doesn’t have to have a weak body. A wuss generally has a spoiled personality.

          Actually there are very mature macho guys with weak bodies.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Well, by that logic our next President may be the biggest wuss of all time.

        • Jason Y

          A lot of blacks and hispanics are wusses, with the biggest ones having tattoos and strong bodies. It’s so ironic that someone who could kill or beat you up is a wimp, but it’s true.

          I mean it’s no wonder everybody hates them in prison, especially budding WNs. There is a reason why. There is a reason why inner cities are full of crime, again wusses.

        • Jason Y

          Actually WNs are wusses and so are the black and hispanic punks they hate. That’s generally the problem with ALL of them. It’s a pretty sad situation really. Of course, the environment is to blame, the single parent homes and all.

        • Jason Y

          So I was reading in Scientific American at Wal Mart, that the most violent offenders are sociopaths, psychopaths etc.. In other words, they’re would you would call violent wusses. They’re not real men. They’ve got serious problems, mostly caused by the environment which might trigger certain brain abnormalities within them.

        • Matt

          There are a lot of bodybuilding wusses. I think women sense this, which is why very few of them are actually into bodybuilders.

        • “So I was reading in Scientific American at Wal Mart, that the most violent offenders are sociopaths, psychopaths etc.. In other words, they’re would you would call violent wusses. They’re not real men. They’ve got serious problems, mostly caused by the environment which might trigger certain brain abnormalities within them.”

          What a cluster of opinion projection by you Jason. I’m not going to attack the “wusses” comment because of it’s subjectivity that you will likely utilize in further discussion, but do you have proof that these cases are caused by environment?

          I’m aware that their is often a trigger, but regardless the “brain abnormalities” aren’t something that are completely latent. In some form or another they will be reflected in their standard behavior but not to an extreme degree until something, not even necessarily tragic, will accuse either as a response or their own decision.

        • Jason Y

          A wuss is a wuss. What’s subjective about that? They have selfish baby personalitles. It’s pretty obvious. That’s why they’re in prison for the most part. That’s also why courts etc.. try to get people from bad backgrounds to join the military, to make a man out of them.

        • Jason Y

          Sorry put this comment under wrong comment. Here it is under the right one.

          One problem with Phil’s thinking is that the brain abnormalities are not present with most or definitely not ALL blacks, or most or ALL of them would be behind bars. A lot of blacks are behind bars though.

        • Jason Y

          I know from experience. Iv’e been around these kind of guys. They’re in my family and I have met them other places. They’re prone toward crime etc.. cause they’re incredibly egotistical, mean etc…

          Basically they’re trapped in some middle school age of development. An age where when I was a kid certain kids would be involve in name-calling, throwing things at people, attention getting.

          Basically it’s childish, un-manly behavior. Notice it’s always about bringing up the ego of the guy, it’s never about love or trying to build up other people via some positive way.

        • Jason Y

          In response to Phil, the article was saying the environment was a trigger for these types of brain abnormalities.

        • “A wuss is a wuss. What’s subjective about that? They have selfish baby personalitles.” A psychopath, in the general sense, is basical anti-social. A sociopath is manipulative and has little empathy. I would fresh up on psychology and not generalize Jason. How these are “babyish” is beyond me.

          “It’s pretty obvious. That’s why they’re in prison for the most part.” Well, actually for possessing the traits that I mentioned as well as likely possessing some sort of impulsiveness.

          “That’s also why courts etc.. try to get people from bad backgrounds to join the military, to make a man out of them.” Bad background =/= psychological dangerous.

          Sorry put this comment under wrong comment. Here it is under the right one.

          “One problem with Phil’s thinking is that the brain abnormalities are not present with most or definitely not ALL blacks, or most or ALL of them would be behind bars. A lot of blacks are behind bars though.”

          When did i ever say that most are like that or that most are behind bars? Cite me.

          “know from experience. Iv’e been around these kind of guys. They’re in my family and I have met them other places. They’re prone toward crime etc.. cause they’re incredibly egotistical, mean etc…” Sound sociopathic to me.

          “Basically they’re trapped in some middle school age of development. An age where when I was a kid certain kids would be involve in name-calling, throwing things at people, attention getting.” I suppose so, but it’s deeper than that, it;s an old trait.

          http://www.unz.com/pfrost/is-sick-the-right-word/#comment-1249956

          “Basically it’s childish, un-manly behavior. Notice it’s always about bringing up the ego of the guy, it’s never about love or trying to build up other people via some positive way.”

          Basically because it is an individual success behavior that is current disadvantageous for society. True it’s “umanly” in the sense, but it is also can serious and threatening behavior rather than just a personality quirk (the title picture of my link would pretty much explain why).

          “In response to Phil, the article was saying the environment was a trigger for these types of brain abnormalities.” Trigger for the proceeding negative incidents or the behavior itself? Anyway it is unlikely that it did “make the behavior” but rather caused a reaction. the problem is that the subject himself doesn’t just sit and let it happen like any other incident, these types try to find it.

          https://jaymans.wordpress.com/2014/04/15/more-behavioral-genetic-facts/

          again, behavior has a biological basis and you have yet to disprove it by scientific means.

  13. Matt

    Transgenderism has always been a thing among a small segment of any society. Some societies have made a place for it (India with the hijra, Native Americans with their two spirit people, etc.) others have not. It is just a thing that happens. That isn’t to say that a lot of the “gender fluidity” stuff going on today isn’t stupid and crazy, but I think ultimately it is self limiting. Someday not too far into the future, these special snowflakes will graduate. They’ll have to get jobs and relate to people who don’t understand critical theory. Eventually, they’ll have to stop flying their freak flag, or at least pick a side. In the meantime, it is probably best not to give them the reaction that they want–positive or negative–and wait for the selling out. Take it from a former safety pin wearing punk rocker.

    • Gay State Girl

      Amen. The attention seeking ones (who wage these asinine lawsuits), don’t realize they’re amassing pretty damning google searches.

      • Matt

        Yeah… I actually feel bad for them. If you can’t experiment with being a self righteous douche in your 20s and still have a do over or two, I feel like the bad guys have won…

    • Jason Y

      I can’t see much a difference between WNs and transgender and gay activists. The same sort of self-worship and vanity posseses them all.

      Ultimately the claim of high IQ/physical superiority of WNs, many who are common hillbillies or some creepy computer nerd is laughable. So likewise, who cares about the special nature of transgender. Most people just don’t care about it and are worried abou their own problems.

      It’s just a bunch of people: gays, WNs and whatnot that people are just too busy to care about, and rightly so..

      Incels? Oh yeah. Don’t care about them. They could visit the gym even just two days out of the week and get self confidence and women, but they are lazy whiners. That’s another group.

      • Jason Y

        And now. Oh, gosh. The incels want to KILL us !!! An innocent by-standard who isn’t some college douche who deserves it has to pay. Maybe some nice person working on some college degree etc… Now they will be killed, crippled, disfigured etc..

  14. Jason Y

    quote by William

    They think they do.
    That’s why hard-core racism is associated among outsiders with mental illness.

    The less extreme types, like some commenters on here, are the opposite, they believe everything bad is the fault of the coloreds’ and can do no wrong.
    Hard to tell which is better to be honest, although I personally lean towards the Coloreds’ are bad type versus the Whites are chosen by god type, because the Coloreds’ are bad type, now they are being terrible people, and have the ability to show some self restraint.
    Plus, that’s less attractive to the masses.

    They’re making mass generaizations. Possibly they are using wussy blacks in prison or in the inner city as the image of how ALL blacks are. You can’t make stereotypes based on bad encounters. So some white guy gets raped or bullied in prison and develops a life long hatred of blacks. OK, that’s understandable. Nonetheless, it just isn’t scientific to make stereotypes that way.

    WNs claim they are for free speech and real science, yet they base their views on blacks (and other non-whites) mostly from stereotypes based on negative encounters.

    It’s also interesting to note WNs have the same douchebag wussy personalities that ghetto blacks have, so it’s like the pot calling the kettle black.

  15. Jason Y

    quote by phil

    Again, I do not. All I ever stated was that they have higher rates compared to whites and their is genetic reason why.

    Show me a link or anything to prove me wrong. If not then find, i’ll have a hypothetical debate based on no links because since I already know the logic behind it it should your repetitive inconsistency.

    There is also a massive enviornmental reason why: one parent homes. The genetics didn’t cause the one parent homes, but rather a change in the overall society: welfare, outsourcing of non college-educated jobs, drug use etc..

    You take a white kid, and generally if they’re exposed to those things they come out the same as a psychopathic black.

    • “The genetics didn’t cause the one parent homes, but rather a change in the overall society: welfare, outsourcing of non college-educated jobs, drug use etc..”

      One parent homes were actual a common form of raising in Africa, Coincidence?

      https://evolutionistx.wordpress.com/2015/07/07/west-african-marriage-and-child-rearing-norms-vs-african-american-norms/

      “You take a white kid, and generally if they’re exposed to those things they come out the same as a psychopathic black.”

      First of all the diagnosis of criminal Black isn’t monolithic, so we can’t even make a generalization of exposure that “makes them psychotic”, also we CAN’T assert this because it’s never been tested.

      You can CITE experiences however do you have a ROBUST study?

      • Jason Y

        It isn’t the case in America as in Africa. Different cultures. Iv’e not seen there is no connection between one parent homes in America and deliquency.

        • Jason Y

          Plenty of studies also back up the claim, at least as far as the US is concerned.

        • “It isn’t the case in America as in Africa. Different cultures.”
          Suggest you work on your grammar, because I’m not sure what you are saying. Are you saying that it isn’t the case because they are different cultures?

          Not seeing your point here because A. Cultural adaptation/behavior is genetic and B. My point is that there are links in heritage for the high amount of one parent homes for US Blacks.

          Again, no coincidence.

          “I’ve not seen there is no connection between one parent homes in America and deliquency.”

          Not what I said, what I’m talking about is the causation and all you are doing is speculating and beating around the bush about it with any evidence.

          “Plenty of studies also back up the claim, at least as far as the US is concerned.”

          Then show them. Even then they can be refuted of they point towards what they are saying through counter evidence.

        • Jason Y

          USA Blacks had two parents homes until the overall cultural shift of the 60s. Of course, before the 60s, they had problems, but none like they have now.

        • Jason Y

          Not seeing your point here because A. Cultural adaptation/behavior is genetic and B. My point is that there are links in heritage for the high amount of one parent homes for US Blacks.

          But all that stuff didn’t mean jack in the US before the 1960s.

        • “USA Blacks had two parents homes until the overall cultural shift of the 60s. Of course, before the 60s, they had problems, but none like they have now.”
          Go to the link and the Blogger discusses that in the comment section. Also, that makes sense due to pressure to assimilate but how successful were they as well as rates of domestic violence?

          “Single mother households were not as common in Africa (generally), nor are they generally today. This is despite the frequency of divorce in some cultures (which varies significantly even within tribes; e.g.: among subgroups of the Yoruba. It might also be noted that very few Yoruba were brought to the US.). As I posted a while ago, often in cases of divorce, both parents continue to contribute to their joint childrens’ up keep. The blog post itself states that “When women divorced, sometimes they would leave their children with their husbands’ families”. Sometimes tribal law requires this (though this varies by tribe and sometimes the ages/birth orders of the children)”

          I would like to know some tribe names as well as regions because from what I read single mother raising was amongst the Fanti, Ibo, Yoruba, etc.

          Also, I’m well aware that extended families help however What I’m talking about is mainly the actual social investment of the father.

          ” The post makes a somewhat reaching/questionable connection between the fosterage of children to (usually) blood relatives and the high rate of American Black children in foster care (with unconnected complete strangers).” I believe I’ve seen data where Black children in fosterage more often go to extended family than other races. Is that the matter or is it something different?

          “Also, men did most of the farming(and large scale trade, where it existed) in Yoruba (and Bini, Dahomean, and Ewe) culture, though women did petty trading at local markets. Other W. African cultures tended to have fairly gender balanced (verging on more male in places) farming systems, (though often, as with the Igbo and many Sahelian/Savannah tribes, “female crops”/and tasks were supplementary rather than primary).”

          These seems less controversial but I still would like some tribe names/data. I believe I read some books on that said otherwise, can you vindicate these claims?

          I’m not oppose to the idea that men did work or participated in farming, but from what I read often the case was that farming had overweight towards women and crafts had overweight towards men.

        • Jm8

          Some sources Re the Yoruba:
          “..in western Nigeria, the Yoruba men have traditionally specialized in food production, and women in transport, processing and trade.”
          Agricultural Labour Markets and Structural” Adjustment in Sub-Saharan Africa p. 51
          https://www.google.com/#q=traditional+yoruba+agriculture+male&tbm=bks

          “Men in precontact Yoruba society were engaged in farming, land clearing, iron smelting, house construction, and palm tree climbing…Women were involved in food processing, harvesting and marketing farm products”p.23 Women in the Yoruba Religious Sphere

          …”Farming is men’s work, although a few women worked their farms like men. In Ondo women help their husbands more than in Ife, where men do the clearing, hoeing, planting, weeding and harvesting.”
          The Yoruba city in history: 11th century to the present p. 318

          https://www.google.com/#q=yoruba+farming+men&tbm=bks

          “In Yorubaland, agriculture was a male dominated profession. Unlike societies in the central and southeastern part of Nigeria where women cultivated and maintained large farms, Yoruba women were not directly involved in agriculture…”
          Understanding Yoruba life and culture – Page 314

          “When cultivating fields, planting crops, and bringing in the harvest, each man relied on his dependent male family members for assistance.”
          Orature and Yoruba Riddles p. 45

          https://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&hl=en&q=yoruba+agriculture+male&ei=sU4uVuvkComy-QHxkYrIDw&emsg=NCSR&noj=1

          A similar pattern existed in Edo Fon/Dahomean and Ewe cultures.

          Traditionally(other than in Yoruba culture e.g.: with Igbos and other S. Nigerian tribes, some in S. Ghana), in the forrest zone of W. Africa(in general), the indigenous yam (which was indigenously domesticated and is the oldest crop in the forest zone) was the mostly male crop. The cocoyam/taro (the second oldest crop originally from S. Asia) was more female and functioned as a supplementary (though not insignificant) crop (cassava and maize came much later form the Americas). The Igbo called the yam the “king of crops”. Archaeologists and linguists believe yams were more important still before the adoption of cocoyams
          In the sahel/savannah, the male crop (for instance; among groups like the Mandinka, Bambara, Wolof, and many in Burkina Faso) is millet(and sorghum). The female crop was traditionally rice, outside the Niger valley, where rice was more male or gender balanced. Though men engaged in the land preparation of female crops (in places shifting/bush fallow farming was practiced, and sometimes harvest)
          I will try to add more sources as I track them down.

        • Jm8

          regarding the Ewe people mentioned earlier:
          “Spieth quotes informants who tell that agriculture in the older days was carried out exclusively by men. Old people today say that before cocoa was introduced, men were “by far and large the food producers, while the women helped on the farm during weeding and harvesting periods”. There is locally a strong opinion about the importance of male labour in food production in the earlier days and it seems certain that men were mainly responsible for yam cultivation.
          Men were responsible for clearing the land and burning the straws, diggingthe hills for the yam, and, when mature, cutting the heads of the yam for replanting. Women seemed to have shared the work with the men in weeding, and in planting and harvesting the rest of the crop. If the family had people in pledge or slaves, then they did the clearing and digging of the yam mounds, and helped with the weeding.
          When the farmers started to grow cocoa, much less emphasis was put on food crops. Firstly, the food farms were soon pushed away from the most fertile land, now being used for cocoa growing. Secondly, the men’s time now became occupied in the cocoa farms for part of the year. Work in the cocoa farms coincided with e.g. the yam harvest, but the men also had in general less time to spend on the food farms. The responsibilities for food production thereby to a larger degree came to be left to the women. This new sexual division of labour in agriculture resulted in the yam slowly being replaced with other crops like maize and cassava, which were less labour intensive.
          The new sexual division of labour in agriculture created a system under which the men controlled the cash crop production, while women took responsibility for the subsistence activities. Cocoa was grown by men, and the marketing of the beans was also completely in the hands of men, who sold them to the European trading houses. Food crops, on the other hand, were entirely the women’s domain, in the sense that they were responsible for handling and selling them in the market. The cocoa brought money into the hands of the men twice a year. This money was earmarked for larger investments either in more cocoa, or in house building and children’s education. The women’s sale offood crops from the family farm did not yield cash that they could dispose of. This money was controlled by the family head, the man, and used directly for subsistence needs of the family. ”
          Bukh, J. 1979. The Village Woman in Ghana
          Re: Yoruba
          “The three major items within the household were food, clothes, and education. The division of finacial load varied greatly, depending on the relative wealth of the spouses, the number of children, and the total income of the polygynous family. In general, men earned more than women, and when the wife was trading on a small scale, the husband had to provide nearly everything. Polygynous men tended to be wealthier, but their households were correspondingly larger.
          …For instance, if a man had no money on him in the morning to give his wife, or chop money(food money; my parenthesis) for the children, he would leave early for the market, leaving his wife to provide the money from her own pocket. He would then pay her back at the end of the day out of his takings.”
          Strangers and Traders: Yoruba Migrants, Markets, and the State in Northern Ghana
          By Jeremy Seymour Eades, p.85

          “In the case of the woman trader, the main source of capital was her husband or his father on marriage, and the percentage seems to have been higher in Ogbomosho than in the other towns. The amount of (Table 5.5) capital varied with th e means of the husband, but was generally smaller than that of the men, reflecting their greater dependency.”

          Strangers and Traders: Yoruba Migrants, Markets, and the State in Northern Ghana
          By Jeremy Seymour Eades, p.111

          https://www.google.com/#tbm=bks&q=Strangers+and+Traders:+Yoruba+Migrants%2C

        • Jm8

          Female (subsistence) farming roles increased after the columbian exchange when men took up cash cropping (and because American crops were easier to grow)

          From Jane Guyer’s
          “Female Farming in Anthropology and African History”
          p. 260-261
          “Cultivation of the ancient staples is characterized by the interdigitation of male and female…supported by an ctivity-specific cultural definition of the division of labor…infused with ritual symbolism.
          …As Forde (1964) described cultivation by the Yako of Southwestern Nigeria, ownership of seed yams are planyed by both men and women working together. Weeding is female; stalking and training the vines is male. Harvesting is a joint activity; washing and carrying are female. Storage barns are built by men, but ownership of the harvested yams is individual according to ownership of the seed yams.”

          In Central Africa, where farming generally more closely approached being female dominated (than in most of W. Africa), tasks were nonetheless more balanced in earlier times and in traditional farming activities (of course hunting/fishing and also oil palm cultivation-harvesting tasks, were male). Guyer discussed this in her studies of the (central African Bantu) Beti of Gabon/Equatorial Guinea/Cameroon(related to the Fang). Here she cites the Zambia Bemba (whose origins, being Bantu, are in Central Africa)

          “Audrey Richard’s.. work…of the Bemba provides a comparable example for the indigenous cereal Millet. Tree pollarding was carried out by groups of young men following the chief’s ritual declaration…
          Women stacked the branches, men put fire to the fields, and then men planted with their wives following behind to cover up the seed. Men fenced the field against wild animals, while women did whatever tending was required and were exclusively responsible for reaping.”
          “The contrast with the common mode of cultivation of both of the new world staples is striking. …Throughout Africa Cassava is grown with …no ritualizaton at all. In many regions it is primarily a female crop.”
          “..Archaeological work on the oldest African farming system…, the Kintampo culture in Ghana, suggests a savannah border ecology..Extrapolating from the ethnographyone can speculate that both types of crop may have been grown under the interdigitated activity specific, sacralized regime..of current cultivation methods for the old staples. None of the old staples was monopolized by female labor.”

          A minor point: the Kintampo farming precedent is outdated. According to recent discoveries, the oldest W. African farming systems are likely in the Mali region; near Tichitt and Tillemsi. But these are of course savannah farming cultures too. Some historical ethno-linguists theorized farming a few millennia earlier in the same general region.

        • Jm8

          Re the yam in S. Nigeria
          “The yam was the monarch of all crops…
          ..As the king of crops, it was a man’s crop, and there were many rituals and taboos surrounding its cultivation and even its consumption. The rituals and taboos, as well as the institutionalization of yam titles, especially among the Igbo, are indicative of not only its antiquity as a domesticated crop, but also the importance attached to it…:
          Nigerian History, Politics and Affairs: The Collected Essays of Adiele Afigbo p. 92
          https://books.google.com/books?id=ez58Dwpa8JcC&pg=PA92&dq=igbo+yam+importance&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiG5Ob0-9nMAhUGeT4KHZcZCzYQ6AEIKDAC#v=onepage&q=igbo%20yam%20importance&f=false
          As I mentioned before in a comment at a previous entry here (in a comment somewhat toward the top with a colorful copy/pasted image showing bar graphs:
          https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2015/12/18/the-genesis-of-black-minority-problems-in-a-non-black-society/):
          Male migration, often for the purpose of sending money to kin (and widowhood), is a significant cause of female-headed households (where they occur, they are ) in Africa, as well as latin America, and parts of Asia (where divorce rates can also be high).
          “…by age forty to forty-five, 20 percent of African women and 10 to 29 percent of Asian women will be separated, divorced, or widowed (Bruce 1989).”
          Women’s Lives and Public Policy: The International Experience p, 56

      • Jm8

        Single mother households were not as common in Africa (generally), nor are they generally today. This is despite the frequency of divorce in some cultures (which varies significantly even within tribes; e.g.: among subgroups of the Yoruba. It might also be noted that very few Yoruba were brought to the US.). As I posted a while ago, often in cases of divorce, both parents continue to contribute to their joint childrens’ up keep. The blog post itself states that “When women divorced, sometimes they would leave their children with their husbands’ families”. Sometimes tribal law requires this (though this varies by tribe and sometimes the ages/birth orders of the children)
        The post makes a somewhat reaching/questionable connection between the fosterage of children to (usually) blood relatives and the high rate of American Black children in foster care (with unconnected complete strangers).
        Also, men did most of the farming(and large scale trade, where it existed) in Yoruba (and Bini, Dahomean, and Ewe) culture, though women did petty trading at local markets. Other W. African cultures tended to have fairly gender balanced (verging on more male in places) farming systems, (though often, as with the Igbo and many Sahelian/Savannah tribes, “female crops”/and tasks were supplementary rather than primary)

        • Jason Y

          Whatever the case, and the blog commenter Tulio has stated a similar statement: Lack of a two parent home for any race (in the USA) produces deliquents because kids are not scared of the mother, only the father. Of course, in the case of blacks, given the genetic makeup, the lack of a two parent home might even be more destructive.

        • “Whatever the case, and the blog commenter Tulio has stated a similar statement: Lack of a two parent home for any race (in the USA) produces deliquents because kids are not scared of the mother, only the father. Of course, in the case of blacks, given the genetic makeup, the lack of a two parent home might even be more destructive.”

          While the lack of two parents would likely cause problem, to produce a delinquent would require a genetic disposition to react like that in the face of lacking tow parents.

          Are you saying that all single parent children are antisocial?

        • Jason Y

          I’m looking at averages regarding one parent homes. Generally, they suck. Even in my own family we had one monster I was about ready to choke him death growing up. It’s all due to the reason stated, we were too soft to punish him for anything, mainly cause we were not the real parents.

        • “I’m looking at averages regarding one parent homes. Generally, they suck. Even in my own family we had one monster I was about ready to choke him death growing up. It’s all due to the reason stated, we were too soft to punish him for anything, mainly cause we were not the real parents.”

          What are the actual numbers though? My point is that we need to consider the variables of why they are bad. One on hand it definitely involves inefficient parenting but what is the source and how does it connect towards different behaviors regarding ethnicities?

          “My family has raised some kids in the fashion of Africa, and we aren’t African at all. Mostly our situation was due to the fact the actual parents are horribly diysfunctional (drug abuse etc..).”

          When did I say that the behavior was EXCLUSIVELY “AFRICAN”?

          “We were never prone to raise kids like Africa genetically, cause we aren’t African.”
          Again, while it it is a trend that can be linked with Africa, it is NOT EXCLUSIVE to such groups.

          Jm8, thanks.

          Now back to Jason, from you Atlantic article

          percentage of single-parent homes.

          “Single Moms Can’t Be Scapegoated for the Murder Rate Anymore

          The other well-known, and highly controversial, change in crime fighting was mass incarceration. Criminologists don’t agree about whether crowded prisons can account for the crime drop of the 1990s and early 2000s, or if they can, by how much. Zimring himself is a skeptic, but others have argued that it can explain about 25 percent of the decline. Regardless, there is no disagreement that the majority, and perhaps the large majority, of inmates grew up in fatherless homes. It’s difficult to get up-to-date data since the Bureau of Justice doesn’t reliably track the family background of inmates. (They also put intact and step families in the same “two parent” category, though at least one study has found the later to be predictive of juvenile incarceration.) The 1987 “Survey of Youth in Custody” found that 70% did not grow up with both parents. Another 1994 study of Wisconsin juveniles was even more stark: only 13% grew up with their married parents. Here’s the conclusion of Cynthia Harper and Sara McLanahan, the doyenne of researchers about single parenthood: ‘[C]ontrolling for income and all other factors, youths in father-absent families (mother only, mother-stepfather, and relatives/other) still had significantly higher odds of incarceration than those from mother-father families.’ ”

          With actual numbers, we can conclude a correlation but as we read further nothing is was made certain about the causes about the relationship.

          Also, some points made in this article that repeats what was said in my intial links

          “Some academics and advocates, including Cohen here, counter that mass incarceration is actually creating more single-parent families. That argument rests on the questionable assumption that men who are in prison would become reliable presences in their children’s lives if freed. Worse, it implies that children—or their mothers—would be better off with a violent father in the house than on their own. There are valid concerns about our harsh drug policies, but the truth is the percentage of prisoners behind bars for drugs is relatively modest. According to the BJS, about 20 percent of the current state prison population has been convicted of drug offenses while 50 percent are doing time for violent crimes. (Federal percentages, though not the number of actual prisoners, are higher.) Violent offenders accounted for 60 percent of the rise in the state prison population between 2000 and 2008, a time when the percentage of drug offenders declined.

          It would be easy to make nifty charts showing a strong correlation between the increase in the number of police in D.C. and the rise of single-parent homes or one highlighting the striking parallel in the growth in the nation’s prison population and the soaring numbers of nonmarital births. But without careful regression analysis—controlling for other possible reasons for a rise in police and prison numbers—the charts would be, at best, suggestive. So it is with the inverse correlation between family breakdown and crime rates shown in Cohen’s charts.

          Moreover, the charts ignore social science truism that correlations existing on the individual level—i.e. children of single mothers and criminal actions—do not necessarily translate to the aggregate, i.e. children of single mothers and official crime rates. Consider this other example: Crime did not increase during the Great Recession;* in fact, violent crime in the United States fell to a 40-year low in 2010 even while poverty was on the rise.* Yet we know that poor are more likely than others to commit crimes. We could design a chart demonstrating that crime rates and poverty rates are unrelated and ask for an apology from the many pundits who have insisted they had to be, but those pundits would rightly object that on its own, the chart can’t prove that poverty doesn’t cause crime.

          The bottom line is that there is a large body of literature showing that children of single mothers are more likely to commit crimes than children who grow up with their married parents. This is true not just in the United States, but wherever the issue has been researched. Few experts, including Cohen, dispute this. Studies cannot prove conclusively that fatherlessness—or any other factor—actually causes people to commit crimes. For that, you’d have to do the impossible: take a large group of infants and raise each of them simultaneously in two precisely equivalent households—except one would be headed by a father and mother and the other by a lone mother. But by comparing criminals of the same race, education, income, and mother’s education whose primary observable difference is family structure, social scientists have come as close as they can to making the causal case with the methodological tools available.

          To say this is not to “scapegoat” or “blame” women; for one thing, fathers also play a role in the making of single-mother families. For another, blame personalizes what is a huge, global, and multi-causal demographic shift; it’s like saying economists are blaming laid-off employees for noting the decline in manufacturing jobs. But it is to caution that the societal consequences of that shift can’t be wished away by a simple graph.”

          All this article shows is the comparing of relationships does nothing in regards to a genetic hypothesis.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          I know one very educated Black lady who would argue with mainstream Conservatives on Black culture problems, and she stated that the selling of slaves caused the breakup of families, where it just was not possible to have the actual parents one or both be the guardians, and therefore modern day Black culture has a more casual relationship with the concept of ‘parents’.

        • “I know one very educated Black lady who would argue with mainstream Conservatives on Black culture problems, and she stated that the selling of slaves caused the breakup of families, where it just was not possible to have the actual parents one or both be the guardians, and therefore modern day Black culture has a more casual relationship with the concept of ‘parents’.”

          That is actually a common belief, but the thing was such an issue was somewhat reminiscent in Africa as well but I think it way’ve been better due to having better access to extended families for help compared to slaves.

          But a bigger problem is that Blacks still had a good while post slavery to create new bonds and learn influence from Whites. (which as Jason noted was higher before the Sixties).

          What happened was that due to a “white ideal” due to assimilation pressures it decreased.

          I’m thinking of ways to tackle that, though it hinges on cooperation which would require intense effort and convincing.

        • Jm8

          Interestingly, subsistence crops in Ghana; (Yams being male, and cocoyams female before the modern era, and then cash crops and still somewhat yams being male, and American crops female in later times)
          have become somewhat less gender split and more balanced recently, with men participating more in the growing of American derived crops and cocoyams.
          http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/20624/1/sp01do03.pdf

          (mother only, mother-stepfather, and relatives/other) still had significantly higher odds of incarceration than those from mother-father families.’ ”
          This is not surprising. Step-parents are notoriously more likely to abuse/neglect unrelated children (than are biological parents). An even among relatives e.g.: less related children may not receive the optimal treatment esp. in a household where one parent is unrelated to the child e.g.: an aunt by blood and uncle by marriage(her husband) plus their own children, creating a situation sometimes not unlike the step parent one. I still suspect that the single mother situation is the worst (all else being equal)
          Just a thought. Of course I am not ruling out a genetic component ,speaking generally, in all groups/people prone to crime.
          I wonder if the number of inmates cited for drug offenses included those convicted for violent acts related to the drug trade/drug addiction.

          to: Another William Playfair Web

          “I know one very educated Black lady who… stated that the selling of slaves caused the breakup of families, where it just was not possible to have the actual parents one or both be the guardians, and therefore modern day Black culture has a more casual relationship with the concept of ‘parents’.”

          I would agree that this may be a major factor (later things like the effects of extreme feminism etc probably contributed). The method attempted/invested in in the United States of maintaining the slave population was “natural increase” (instead of new slaves from Africa, to replace dead ones). The attempt was often (though likely significantly more in some regions than others; less in the rice growing “Gullah” region and possibly a bit less in parts of coastal Virginia and the small-farming South Appallachians) to breed as many slaves as possible. Requiring slaves to breed serially and promiscuously (and forcing or at least incentivizing such) was part of this effort (because it was profitable). Some plantations were known for producing children for sale, often sold at very young ages, essentially functioning as breeding farms. The selling of slave children was profitable, and these outfits (according to some scholars at least) were an important part of the slave economy. Slave narratives often mention these kinds of things; including family separations, not only from fathers, but from mothers too, at young ages. The provisioning of slaves and their children from the “big house”, unrelated to the efforts of individual parents may factor too.
          There is some debate though about the extent and efficiency of these practices. It’s hard to imagine it didn’t add somehow to the problem.

        • Jm8

          “That is actually a common belief, but the thing was such an issue was somewhat reminiscent in Africa as well but I think it way’ve been better due to having better access to extended families for help compared to slaves.”

          I would agree that extended families helped. These were weakened during slavery. They are also weakened when a mainly rural peasant people with little urban history moves en masse to cities (causing a single-motherhood increase.) This happened to the Irish in America (having little history of urbanism, or experience of proprietorship/ownership since mostly being peasantized/made serf-like by the Protestant ruling class. The Italians and Germans, with their different histories, fared somewhat better.), and to rural US black migrants to cities during the great migration.

        • Jm8

          Also, extended families include male members, such have uncles, who have traditional child upkeep responsibilities in some cultures.

        • Jm8

          Urban living tends to break up large groups and encourage the primacy of small ones (and atomization).

        • Jm8

          There is a sizable female contribution to farming and trading (according to data, but anecdotally, one often notices small female enterprises in Asia E. Asian neighborhoods) in East/South East Asia.
          But not so much in the Middle East or India/Pakistan

          female labor percentages(as a percentage of total agricultural labour as recorded in the 1970 population census) eg: 36 Ghana, 42 Liberia, 42 Sierra Leone, 50 Thailand, 24 India, 9 Morocco, 13 Pakistan
          The Character of Kinship
          By Jack Goody p.180-181
          https://books.google.com/books?id=TFjf4mUHqv4C&pg=PA175&lpg=PA175&dq=Polygyny,+Economy+and+the+Role+of+Women.+In+The+Character+of+Kinship&source=bl&ots=Lf9x7vC_bD&sig=FIXZhuFg7FqH7l1FiOuf38ARa-w&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAmoVChMI57C-i7j9yAIVjDc-Ch1wvghF#v=onepage&q=Polygyny%2C%20Economy%20and%20the%20Role%20of%20Women.%20In%20The%20Character%20of%20Kinship&f=false
          “In Asia, women account for approximately 50 percent of food production overall in the region, with considerable variation from country to country. For example, women compose 47 percent of the agricultural labour force in the Philippines, 35 percent in Malaysia, 54 percent in Indonesia and over 60 percent in Thailand. In Southeast Asia, women play a major role in rice production, particularly in sowing, transplanting, harvesting and processing (Karl, 1996).”
          http://www.fao.org/docrep/x0198e/x0198e02.htm

    • Jason Y

      My family has raised some kids in the fashion of Africa, and we aren’t African at all. Mostly our situation was due to the fact the actual parents are horribly diysfunctional (drug abuse etc..).

      We were never prone to raise kids like Africa genetically, cause we aren’t African.

  16. mateuse

    …and of course, behaviors come about by magic, with no basis in physical or biological phenomena. Everyone knows that.

  17. Jason Y

    It could be some think they’re superior cause they’ve been raised to believe so. Just as William pointed out people with big egos are drawn to WN. Usually they’re the loudmouths, the punks, the joke makers etc..

    Also, in other arenas like sports, people are drawn to do the best and this could go into overkill with some people making them bullies and making them partial to racist philosophies. South Koreans, for instance, as mentioned in another post, are pressured to be the best, but it has made them think all human value should be based on success hence making them cruel to the disabled.

    • Jason Y

      Of course, the opposite, people with battered wife syndrome etc.. who are brainwashed to believe they are weak and dumb is just as bad. Some self esteem is needed to function well in life.

    • Well on one hand you have that right in regards to extreme perception of superiority, but other cases could be explained through observation.

      Overall while acknowledgement wouldn’t alone be horrible, how to react to such revelation under certain circumstances wiuld be determined under inner personalities :e.g “egos”.

      “Of course, the opposite, people with battered wife syndrome etc.. who are brainwashed to believe they are weak and dumb is just as bad. Some self esteem is needed to function well in life.”

      While possible, in the case of blacks studies have found confidence to be superior to whites, thus they have higher instances of the qualities, and especially the consequences, of not having enough forsight to worry about essential tasks and abilities.

      Basically this stems form extroversion. However, cases where balck do feel like that are typically those with above average qualities.

  18. Jason Y

    Mind over matter is always important regardless the genetics. For instance, in bodybuilding the first step is to conquer the mind and make it become less lazy, and then the body follows.

    • Bodybuilding’s success also varies based on genes as well. People can come out of a lazy disposition, but even that just translates to a point I’ve made multiple times in the past that their is a continuum in behavior traits :e.g “lazy” and “energetic” is not black and white.

      • Jason Y

        I think genes can dictate the results of bodybuilding, but the actual effort is totally a mind game. Obviously, anyone can try hard, but only some have the genetics for huge arms etc…

        Try to debate me and say I’m wrong. I think it will be tough.

      • Jason Y

        You can take supplements and steriods, but it isn’t natural, cancer causing, and perhaps it can castrate you. It’s not worth it, even though you might for a short time get a lot of women etc..

        I don’t even trust just general supplements you can get at Wal Mart or GNC.

        • Jason Y

          Supplements could massively offset genetic disadvantage, but as I was saying, they aren’t worth it.

      • “I think genes can dictate the results of bodybuilding, but the actual effort is totally a mind game. Obviously, anyone can try hard, but only some have the genetics for huge arms etc…” Didn’t even mention physicality in this, but whatever.

        “Try to debate me and say I’m wrong. I think it will be tough.” Actually you’re really not in the position claim to be the most logical, sense mindpower would be attributed to the brain which is in turn linked towards genetics and you have yet to correct me on that.

        “You can take supplements and steriods, but it isn’t natural, cancer causing, and perhaps it can castrate you. It’s not worth it, even though you might for a short time get a lot of women etc..

        I don’t even trust just general supplements you can get at Wal Mart or GNC.” Sure but that wasn’t my point.

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