Race and IQ in Latin America: Time for a Study?

A. B. Prosper writes:

This is an old post but do remember Hispanic also includes White Hispanics.

If you factor it by race say using the old Casta system for simplicity I suspect you’d end up with different result,

White Hispanics (Criollo and Peninsulars, German and other stock lines) with White IQ, Mestizos with lower, Negritos (Blacks) lower and Indios with probably lower than that, though I’m not sure about the latter.

Some Indian admixture if in a Flynn Effected environment doesn’t seem to matter. My guess and I don’t know is that it reduces the likelihood of very high IQ, but this is unlikely in any case.

Argentina is the Whitest Hispanic country and it has an IQ of 93. That’s not broken down racially of course. Argentina is 21% Amerindian when you look at the entire nation’s genome. Chile is about the same IQ-wise, and the estimates for Indian blood may be even higher. At any rate, a fair amount of Indian blood does not appear to be fatal to IQ or even behaviorally for that matter.

Argentina and Chile function more or less like European countries except for the typical “Latin American sickness” which has always enveloped them. But even a lot of Europe was nearly feudal with wild inequality and  polarized and radicalized politics split into fascists versus communists and socialists and a lot of political violence even up until 70 years ago. Latin American style coups followed by Latin American style dictatorships occurred in Greece only 50 years ago. Latin American style fascist dictatorships ruled Portugal and Spain until only 40 years ago. Europe’s no paradise.

The very heavily Indian countries in Latin America do tend to have lower IQ’s, often IQ ~83-85. Mexico is a mestizo country, and it is somewhere in between Argentina/Chile and the more Indian nations at 90.

A racial IQ study in Latin America would be a nice study though.It might be a bit hard to do as things are so mixed down there that it might be hard to sort out valid groups to test.

I am thinking maybe in Mexico:

Whites:   IQ 96
Mestizos: IQ 90
Indians:  IQ 84

What is interesting is that those figures stick in my mind for those races in Mexico, and my mind keeps telling me that I have seen those figures somewhere. But offhand, I can’t dig up the study and it may not even exist. My mind may just be playing tricks on me, or maybe it was someone’s guesstimate.

98 Comments

Filed under Americas, Amerindians, Argentina, Argentines, Chile, Chileans, Europe, Fascism, Greece, Hispanics, Intelligence, Latin America, Latin American Right, Mestizos, Mexicans, Mexico, Mixed Race, Political Science, Politics, Portugal, Psychology, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, South America, Spain, Whites

98 responses to “Race and IQ in Latin America: Time for a Study?

  1. S

    But wouldn’t that imply, that the Mestizos are on the surface, 50% White, (IQ value in the middle) but actually more, because their FEMALE ancestors are Indian, who have more of a bearing on IQ than male ancestors.

  2. Tulio

    I have a female friend who is a Latin American studies professor. Oh man she would go ballistic if she read this post.

    • EPGAH

      Great! Then can she think of another reason why Mexico is a violent hellhole of thugs&drugs, while in America, assassination is NOT accepted as a method of politicking?

      http://www.cbsnews.com/news/mexico-mayor-gisela-mota-assassinated-one-day-after-taking-office/
      Why doesn’t shit like that happen in America? Is it IQ, or better impulse control, or is there a Blessing on Canada and America and a Curse on everything south of our border?

      Why can Americans manage to keep our problem population in our borders, but Mexico can’t, and routinely dumps shitloads of thugs&drugs on us?

  3. Ed

    I used to feel sorry for the descendants of the Italians who went to Argentina, thinking they were getting a better deal, when their families would have been better off in Italy in the long run.

    However, the emigration of lots of poor Italian peasants probably raised the overall living standards for the people who were left behind. And actually if you look at Italy vs. Argentina over the really long run, its not that clear which country does better, sometimes things are better in one country and sometimes in another. I’ve been to both. Italy is a wealthier place with a stronger social safety net, but there is not a huge noticeable difference in how people live.

    • jorge

      I don’t know where you were in Argentina, but there is a big differences between lower classes of both countries. In Italy don’t exist shanty towns or people with malnutrition (this mainly happens in rural villages of the north of Argentina).

      Some shanty towns in Buenos Aires and it metropolitan area (conformed by around 100 cities).

      Some shanty towns in Posadas (my city, located in the northeast of the country).

    • jorge

      I don’t know where you were in Argentina, but there is a big differences between lower classes of both countries. In Italy don’t exist shanty towns or people with malnutrition (this mainly happens in rural villages of the north of Argentina).

    • jorge

      Some shanty towns in Buenos Aires and it metropolitan area (conformed by around 100 cities).

      Some shanty towns in Posadas (my city, located in the northeast of the country).

    • jorge

      Some shanty towns in Buenos Aires and it metropolitan area (conformed by around 100 cities).

      Some shanty towns in Posadas (my city, located in the northeast of the country, in the border with Paraguay).

    • jorge

      Some shanty towns in Buenos Aires and it metropolitan area (conformed by around 100 cities).

      Some shanty towns in Posadas (my city, located in the northeast of the country).

      • jorge

        Shit, a single comment of mine was posted several times. Please someone delete two or three first (all except the last) if can. Thanks.

      • Tulio

        Damn, I had no idea Argentina had Brazilian style favelas. I went to Buenos Aires in 2009 and never saw any hint of those places.

        • jorge

          Here aren’t called “favelas”, here are called “villas de emergencia” (emergency villages, for it sanitary “emergency” situation), “villas miseria” (misery villages, a name “invented” by a writter of a novel of 1957 that precisely talk about this shanty towns) or simply “villas” (villages, the most used term, that is like an abbreviation of emergency villages/misery villages).

          Since some years also it is used the term “asentamiento” (settlement) for some shanty towns, but especially for some that have some particular characteristics (those built with precarious elements but with more order and the intention of conform permanent “regular” neighborhoods, while villages were built originally with the intention of survive there for only a few years until prosper economically, thing that usually never happened).

        • EPGAH

          There’s nothing more permanent than a “temporary” Government solution. And do you really think the refugees have any thought of going back home? Even this squalor must be better than the alternative, right? Similar to how even being a criminal in America is better than being a “citizen” in their own country, so the “temporary” illegals never seem to want to go back home…and sometimes pop back up here after being deported…as in HOURS after!

  4. jorge

    Not really. The whitest country of Latin America and even of the whole Americas is Uruguay.

    And, like I said before in another post, I personally “define” races according to phenotype, not genetics, and I define persons to one or another race, not some mongrel racial category (like “mestizo”, “mulatto”, etc.).

    Like 20% of Argentines are phenotypically Amerindian, not only in it genes. Obviously most of them have much white ancestry and this is noted in the phenotype.

    And average Mexicans are phenotypically Amerindian.

    • S

      Like 20% of Argentines are phenotypically Amerindian, not only in it genes. Obviously most of them have much white ancestry and this is noted in the phenotype.”

      I hate to be rude, but no sh*t.

      but this;
      “And average Mexicans are phenotypically Amerindian.”

      was my point earlier, it didn’t seem accurate that the average Mestizo (assuming about the same amount of reservation Indians and pure whites), are less than half-Indian.

      • jorge

        I don’t understand your disagreement about Argentina (I’m from Argentina).

        And what you said about mestizos it’s true. I define most part of “mestizos” simply as Amerindians (many of them very mixed, but Amerindians anyway).

        • S

          The point was, I thought what you were saying about Argentina was not just true, it was so true, it was very obvious.

  5. Jason Y

    Again, the environment is not factored into the equation regarding high poverty nations like Bolivia. How about oppressive regimes, bad nutrition, poor public education etc..?

    • “Factored into the Equation”? That is sort of irrelevant.

      While gains from improvement are possible, that doesn’t dispute natural incompetence contributed on the part of certain group abilities. That’s pretty much the pattern everywhere else.

      Speaking in the Hypothetical sense as well as simply saying “elites won’t help” as always, even if true, doesn’t make their plight any better without a plausible solution to implement with no “ifs, ands, or buts”.

      • Jason Y

        You would have to find out if disadvantages are caused by genetics vs the environment scientifically. Obviously, without such testing, it would be easy to say someone would inherit a good environment from their parents, and I don’t mean genetically. It would be more like, well I grew up in Beverly Hills, so the odds are my kids will too.

        Note though, no real effort has been made to improve heavily Amerindian nations, Mixed, or African ones. The few exceptions have been Cuba, Venezuela, and Bolivia has tried under Morales.

      • Jason Y

        A big problem lies with self esteem as I was saying in the article about Alphas vs Omegas. Unless the government rises the self esteem of the poor, they probably won’t make super-human efforts to overcome poverty, even though ways to escape poverty are available. They’d probably rather drink or drug away all thier money, and many of them do.

        Likewise, if fat or skinny Omegas aren’t reconditioned to overcome negative insults directed their way, they’re probably not going to ask out the prom queen.

      • “You would have to find out if disadvantages are caused by genetics vs the environment scientifically.”

        Well it’s already established that in terms of a general population, races like Blacks and Amerindians score lower that whites and gene correlations have been found. It really doesn’t help your case since Colorism is a common structure in Latin America.

        “Obviously, without such testing, it would be easy to say someone would inherit a good environment from their parents, and I don’t mean genetically. It would be more like, well I grew up in Beverly Hills, so the odds are my kids will too.”

        True, and more or less you in such a scenario would’ve possessed biological characteristics to do so thus your child would likely to however that’s before we consider regression.

        “Note though, no real effort has been made to improve heavily Amerindian nations, Mixed, or African ones. The few exceptions have been Cuba, Venezuela, and Bolivia has tried under Morales.”

        You just used the fallacy pointed out that I already made. Olus, If you said Cuba tried, it should be noted that Afro Cubans are about 85 like Afams. While higher than an Africa Phenotypical 70, one must consider that Cuban Blacks are basically mulatto and still have a stigma of doing rather poor in school.

        “A big problem lies with self esteem as I was saying in the article about Alphas vs Omegas. Unless the government rises the self esteem of the poor, they probably won’t make super-human efforts to overcome poverty, even though ways to escape poverty are available. They’d probably rather drink or drug away all thier money, and many of them do.”

        Jason, two things. Frost, as you said originally that we should TEST on which factor, environment or genetics, is he key you just pointed out what they do with money. While some may have different results when intervened by others, the simple efforts to uplift lower class balcks has been shown to be often fruitless unless remodeled. Show me, with a source, how intervention works in Cuba and show me your workable modification.

        “Likewise, if fat or skinny Omegas aren’t reconditioned to overcome negative insults directed their way, they’re probably not going to ask out the prom queen.”

        Like many lowerclass blacks, they might not even want the goal that is best for them.

        • Jason Y

          Like many lowerclass blacks, they might not even want the goal that is best for them.

          They might want something better if they didn’t come from a culture that was so negative. However, in reality, they simply accept the status quo and drink or drug to dull the pain.

        • Jason Y

          Show me, with a source, how intervention works in Cuba and show me your workable modification.

          http://thecubaneconomy.com/articles/2010/10/cuba%E2%80%99s-achievements-under-the-presidency-of-fidel-castro-the-top-ten/

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuban_Literacy_Campaign

          https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_Cuba

          A workable modification would be having a government which like Cuba is dedicated to rising the self esteem of the population.

        • “They might want something better if they didn’t come from a culture that was so negative. However, in reality, they simply accept the status quo and drink or drug to dull the pain.”

          Sort of putting the underclass in monolith, are we? Also my Father had a fraternity brother who tried helping at Baltimore but was put in the Hospital by thugs.

          As well, since Africa, the Bechuana in particular, often when missionaries intervened the Native were rude, stole from them, and even threaten them. They basically asked “why don’t you just leave” to the missionaries and that what they finally did as well.

          Note, this was the same tribe that buried that Baby that grew up to be a teacher for native christian children.

          “A workable modification would be having a government which like Cuba is dedicated to rising the self esteem of the population.”

          Are you saying Cuba IS dedicated or that a Cuba would be a good base to establish a dedicated government? If the former, keep in mind of the results that robert explained on them in the past.

        • Jason Y

          Not all people will react to someone trying to help them kindly. You simply have to ignore the bad people, or get rid of them to get results. Cuba, of course, got rid of bad elements opposed to their revolution, as well as criminals. Some of those criminals they ended up dumping on the US in 1980 causing a crime wave in Miami.

        • Jason Y

          The first step in a revolution to help the poor is a massive campaign to stop crime, while at the same time vastly improving the environment. However, what we got now in the USA, is a movement to stop crime that really doesn’t work, along with NO attempt to improve the environment.

        • “Not all people will react to someone trying to help them kindly. You simply have to ignore the bad people, or get rid of them to get results. Cuba, of course, got rid of bad elements opposed to their revolution, as well as criminals. Some of those criminals they ended up dumping on the US in 1980 causing a crime wave in Miami.”

          That would require intrusion which local who may not be even criminals may oppose. I bring this up not because I disagree with the concept, the problem is that this is basically Eugenics in a basic modern form yet you disagreed with the idea in the past with me.

          “The first step in a revolution to help the poor is a massive campaign to stop crime, while at the same time vastly improving the environment. However, what we got now in the USA, is a movement to stop crime that really doesn’t work, along with NO attempt to improve the environment.”

          ……well first of all explain how it “doesn’t work here” and we’ve been proving the environment in America for Blacks for over a century. Another thing is that even if we raise their IQ, Robert points out issues like behavior.

          Also, are you aware of how expensive it would be to raise IQ with actual measurements or how complicated. The people are likely not all depraved in the same way, they likely would have irresponsible parents, then they would have to go to foster homes or relatives and that just probability. Then how will it be controlled for how they are cared for monolithically.

          3rd, Projects like these I can see for areas in Latin America but in America exactly how active would this be for the poor if this were to be a social and not racial uplifting?

          But lets say you selected for criminals, you pointed out how they were deprived, etc. Who is going to do the effort for what would only likely be only a portion of the current poor population that would at best only get in the range of mid to high 90s if not 100 (again, this theoretical for the poor in general, not by specific race so for poor blacks, who knows, it may be lower.)

          Now, lets get by to the statement in which the US doesn’t engage in this, that basically proves my other argument about how since most plans you offer rely on altruism of elites the point is irrelevant. considering that they, in America, can’t help themselves to the same extent as others.

        • Jason Y

          No it’s not eugenics. You have to prove your a criminal before your taken out. Someone who is simply born with say a low IQ, but doesn’t bother anyone is left alone.

        • “No it’s not eugenics. You have to prove your a criminal before your taken out. Someone who is simply born with say a low IQ, but doesn’t bother anyone is left alone.”

          Are you saying that with Eugenics within an ethnic criminals aren’t scanned or proved? Jason, the development of criminal execution in of it self was eugenic since criminal genes are heritable.

          There is no set boundary in how to do it as long as it trying to get a particular trait, it doesn’t have to be arbitrary as you put it.

        • Jason Y

          Not everyone with criminal genes becomes criminal, and if the environment is good they probably won’t. HOWEVER, in the formation of an ideal state, unfortunately, those who became bad, because nobody ever helped them, will have to be taken out, even though it seems very unjust.

          Fortunately though, in the ideal state, the environment becomes so good, that there are no FUTURE bad people, even though they might have a gene for being a criminal.

        • Jason Y

          Even though my heart goes out ot bad people who became bad cause of a bad enviornment, I recognize they’re going to have to be taken out via imprisonment, because they would simply wreck an ideal progressive state.

          For instance, Cuba’s criminals were locked up for that very reason, and when they were released on Florida in 1980, we saw that there was very good reason Castro had them in prison. Those people were monsters, causing rapes, murder, everything under the sun.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          For instance, Cuba’s criminals were locked up for that very reason, and when they were released on Florida in 1980, we saw that there was very good reason Castro had them in prison. Those people were monsters, causing rapes, murder, everything under the sun.

          Yes, the Marieletos or something like that.

          Castro was smart… very smart, well, at least smarter than Nicola Ceausescu, the Romanian dictator who outlawed abortion in his socialist Romania, and the country had trouble.

          Castro was a genius. Castro started the whole ‘Latin American Conspiracy’ stuff Trump talks about (i.e. America has become the dumping ground of the world, especially the hated, at least among his supporters, non-white world).

        • “Not everyone with criminal genes becomes criminal, and if the environment is good they probably won’t.”

          No data to confirm this, thus I won’t argue any firther than, well, “criminal” genes isn’t one type of phenotypical behavior.

          “HOWEVER, in the formation of an ideal state, unfortunately, those who became bad, because nobody ever helped them,” assumption.

          “will have to be taken out, even though it seems very unjust.” it is unjust not to tolerate criminal behavior in a vicinity to restore/maintain stability…you have a funny way of seeing “excuses” vs “explanations” even though your explanations are dubious.

          “Fortunately though, in the ideal state, the environment becomes so good, that there are no FUTURE bad people, even though they might have a gene for being a criminal.”

          Actually, I won’t repeat myself but Robert made a post about it. Also, no evidence of your claim.

          https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/04/01/people-are-getting-tired-of-the-endless-wait-for-blacks-to-close-iq-and-achievement-gaps-with-whites/

          I believe he made a similar one in the past but this will suffice.

          “Even though my heart goes out ot bad people who became bad cause of a bad enviornment, I recognize they’re going to have to be taken out via imprisonment, because they would simply wreck an ideal progressive state.”

          Jason, this time i will repeat myself, you’re only accepting my point earlier. Even “if” they are the way they are for environmental reasons the persistence of the behavior as well as inadequate nature of intervention of them makes the purpose of the environment argument useless and makes the purpose of a genetic argument more credibility in what you are describing as selection. Your model basically is eugenci in nature and whatever connotation you get from it is irrelevant to what it actually is. Hell, what you are proposing is exactly how I imagine “eugenics”.

          https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2016/02/16/jeb-bush-loves-all-children-especially-black-children/#comment-252459

          “For instance, Cuba’s criminals were locked up for that very reason, and when they were released on Florida in 1980, we saw that there was very good reason Castro had them in prison. Those people were monsters, causing rapes, murder, everything under the sun.”

          My point exactly as expressed in the about link.

        • Jason Y

          Your acting like most blacks will behave like ghetto blacks even if they grew up from the cradle onward in a massive super-enviornment. What links do I need to show what I’m saying is right?

          How about the fact blacks in the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion are not thugs, even though they all come from a stock of ordinary blacks, the same ones that produce criminals. Don’t try to say natural selection goes on with church blacks, it isn’t true.

        • Jason Y

          Another example of a super-environment, even though a cruel one, was slavery. Blacks were well-behaved under slavery. All the beatings, rules, lack of freedom made thier criminal behavior non-existent.

        • “Your acting like most blacks will behave like ghetto blacks even if they grew up from the cradle onward in a massive super-enviornment. What links do I need to show what I’m saying is right?”

          I wasn’t talking about Blacks IN GENERAL, this entire thread was specifically talking about GHETTO CLASS PEOPLE.

          “How about the fact blacks in the Jehovah’s Witnesses religion are not thugs, even though they all come from a stock of ordinary blacks, the same ones that produce criminals. Don’t try to say natural selection goes on with church blacks, it isn’t true.”

          That last part had me cracking up inside. The thing is that those organizations ATTRACTS people who would want to be involved in that kind of work.

          It’s like how volunteer groups often attract altruistic people. The presence of the blacks you are talking about, while possibly a major portion of Blacks, aren’t COMPLETELY PRESENTATIVE. So it IS selection, not natural selection exactly but not representative.

          Also, we technically haven’t have any data on seeing any difference in them so we cant even say that they are the same.

          “Another example of a super-environment, even though a cruel one, was slavery. Blacks were well-behaved under slavery. All the beatings, rules, lack of freedom made thier criminal behavior non-existent.”

          UUUuuummmm……bullshit. While their were well behaved ones, are you not familiar with Slave Rebellions? Not all, very few, were truly “noble forms of liberation”. Many were due to the fact that many of the slaves exported by African were CRIMINALS. Historical romanticism

          They may’ve not expressed it as much then, though the crime in the South Afterwards (see Rob’s Negroes in Negroland article) proves that it was not a Panacea.

        • Cases where slaves were truly well behaved, between Master and slave, were likely because of selection.

          In South Carolina, for example, they didn’t want Eboes (Igboes from Aboh mostly likely and possibly Mokoes) because A. they didn’t traditional grow rice and B. They had horrible track record in behavior.

          Senegambian ones were desired for behavior and growing skills, I think Yoruba as well since they were often attracted.

        • Jason Y

          Phil, no, the churches attract average people, who then after conversion become more alturistic etc.. Otherwise what’s the freaking point of converting them to begin with?

          As far as your slavery comments, yeah, people are more behaved after they’ve been whipped, lol. Look at Saudi Arabia.

        • Jason Y

          OK, some of the blacks imported may have been bad apples, kind of like when Castro dumped criminals on the US in 1980.

          Nonetheless,whippings and other harsh measures make a massive difference, even with criminals. For one thing,the reason our prison system doesn’t produce really rehabiliate criminals is cause it’s too soft and the prisoners are just thrown into an environment with other criminals.

        • “phil, no, the churches attract average people, who then after conversion become more alturistic etc.. Otherwise what’s the freaking point of converting them to begin with?”

          no, they attract people who SEEK salvation by converting. In other words, people with certain motivations. You have a different idea of “average”. if you mean average in social status, then yeah.

          However that is NOT synonymous average in terms of beliefs and motivations. I do believe people like them could exist in the black community, they shouldn’t be considered the average on that basis.

          One of the problems with converting in Africa was that their understanding of practice wasn’t the same as Europeans. For example they, on the most part, didn’t respond to the idea of their sins hurting them later in life (heaven and hell) because they formerly would be punished in paganism by chiefs who were often seen with spiritual connection or by others who were spiritual “zealots”. Thus when converted, many thought that all thy had to do was do the practices and rites in Christianity but they didn’t internalize the same sense as Europeans, just retain their old ones.

          Now, I DIDN”T say all, their were quite a few who were commended for their work under god but they weren’t the whole result.

          “OK, some of the blacks imported may have been bad apples, kind of like when Castro dumped criminals on the US in 1980.

          Nonetheless,whippings and other harsh measures make a massive difference, even with criminals. For one thing,the reason our prison system doesn’t produce really rehabilitate criminals is cause it’s too soft and the prisoners are just thrown into an environment with other criminals.”

          Define “soft” with suppoirt of evidence of this happening in prisons. Second, what you are suggesting is exactly why i brought up Robert Negroes in Negroland article, that it doesn’t immortally change them unless constantly applied.

          Also Jason, and i don;t now if you can really understand this(I am definitely having my doubts though), but from both expert opinion and experience the only way some can really “kick a habit” it from his own ability.

          Life is unfair in people’s fate, so I have no idea why you repeatedly resist the idea of people not having that in them. As well, when one considers that our body is verified in being chemically designed, with our brains being no exception, the idea that genes are relevant (though perhaps not sole) in this is rather illogical.

        • Jason Y

          They’re genetically motivated to become Christians? Give me a break,,

          Yes, people are genetically programmed toward certain things, but that doesn’t mean they act on it. The environment and limits that people make on thier own behavior play a role in determining how much of a person they are, as opposed to some monkey etc..

        • “They’re genetically motivated to become Christians? Give me a break,,”

          Considering that behavior is genetic, and that people in a population can VARY in genetics, and these people have their OWN motivations to convert and they are not the whole population it makes sense, elaborate why it would not.

          “Yes, people are genetically programmed toward certain things, but that doesn’t mean they act on it.” Not always but most definitely will be urged to.

          “The environment and limits that people make on thier own behavior play a role in determining how much of a person they are, as opposed to some monkey etc..”

          What you said was utter mush and non-specific. I suggest you give an example, preferably with a link supporting that. Like it or not, Behavior is something that is studied and with a pattern for certain types of people.

          Lets say hypothetical we have someone who has a genetic predisposition to be insensitive and see nothing wrong. Whether born poor or in a decent home and taught better he wouldn’t sincerely internalize sensitivity as a value. Of course you have those who can be insensitive but understand otherwise does catch on but they are technically phenotypically different and likely have a different genetic type. They may EXPRESS it differently but nonetheless have the trait.

          Now lets go to the convert example. You have one person who may have innate qualities to aspire towards the pertain to Christian practice and behavior they will thus be attract and thus join.

        • Jason Y

          People are often insensitive because it’s been dulled thru abuse, one parent homes etc… Also, they may have been taught to be all macho etc… How genetics would have anything to do with that is beyond me. Basically, HBDers are trying to put genetics into everything. It’s over-kill.

        • Jason Y

          One example would be a dog a relative owned. You couldn’t trust the dog, and it was known to attack. In fact, we had to kill it because we thought it might attack some kids at our house.

          What caused it? Well, the owner had his chained up all the time, and who knows what else abuse he did to him.

          Note, not all dogs act like that. Only ones who were abused.

        • “People are often insensitive because it’s been dulled thru abuse, one parent homes etc… Also, they may have been taught to be all macho etc…”

          Is that always the case? Can you back that up with evidence. What about the possibility kids in that situation respond WITH sensitivity towards abuse?

          “How genetics would have anything to do with that is beyond me.”

          Simple, you don’t even research it yourself and remain comfortable with your own environment oriented beliefs.

          I’m going to let you in how you can gain some credibility. Go on googe. show me a “Genes determines behavior” study and explain to me why, by scientific reasons, it’s not logical”

          “Basically, HBDers are trying to put genetics into everything. It’s over-kill.”

          You do understand that most HBD bloggers don’t claim things without an actual study? Hell, most of their post deals with talking about conclusion MADE FROM THE STUDIES THEMSELVES rather than ones they make themselves.

          Even Robert made a post of actual HBD scientists that get panned by environmentalists but are actually taken serious in their field.

          “One example would be a dog a relative owned. You couldn’t trust the dog, and it was known to attack. In fact, we had to kill it because we thought it might attack some kids at our house.

          What caused it? Well, the owner had his chained up all the time, and who knows what else abuse he did to him.

          Note, not all dogs act like that. Only ones who were abused.”

          ……this goes back to my other point about abuse. Like Children, not ALL abused animals turn out that way and also how do you know (data please) that ONLY abused dogs act that way.

          How about data that talks about dog behavior please? That’s even assuming if dog behavior can even be a proxy for precise human psychology despite obvious similarities.

      • Also Jason, if abuse in childhood is what causes criminality, how is then that your claim of slavery’s abuses working for DOCILITY even with CRIMINALS?

    • Jason Y

      I mean it ain’t like they got Taco Bell on every corner. 😆

  6. S.D.

    In the United States Hispanic criminals seem to come from the Mestizo and Mulatto belt from Mexico down to Columbia and Brazil.

    We hear of a few Brazilian gangs in the U.S. (Though far less than Mexican or Central American) but no Argentinian gangs in the U;S. or Uruguayan criminal gangs.

    We do not see Argentinian or Uruguay citizens committing crimes in the U.S. although some small number of them do come to the United States for work or study.

    • Jason Y

      But the Argentians or Uraguayans didn’t grow up in a shitty environment.

    • Jason Y

      Ultimately, the real battle is mind over matter. Typically, taking US Amerindians on an Indian reservaton for instance, you see them lay around and drink booze because they have no self confidence to overcome thier situation. Possibly, they’ve bought into the negative stuff whites have said that they’re worthless Indians.

      Also, in Latin America or India, the same thing. Fascist regimes cater to a rich elite who view the poor as dogs, and make no effort to help them. Even the TV in Mexico doesn’t show real Mexicans, but rather Spaniards.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        I saw the Colombian government’s documentary on Pablo Escobar (of course with subtitles).

        So many whites, only light skinned mestizos/castizos, and actually some blacks, almost like blacks were more taboo than the mestizos, there were less of them, but I’m pretty sure Colombia has more mestizos than blacks, so highly, highly disproportionate.

        Mestizos are like Blacks in the U.S., while Latin American Blacks, are like U.S. Asians, too few to cause rage, except in Panama and Brazil.

        • jorge

          Colombia and Venezuela also have a relevant percentage of blacks.

          And most of people that is called “mestizos” in fact are Amerindians, but are called like this because usually have a relevant ancestry from another race (in most cases, white) or because they aren’t part of some indigenous nations, so they are not taken as Amerindians.

          But are Amerindians in most cases. Blacks in all the Americas also usually have a relevant ancestry from another race/s but still are called blacks, not mongrels.

          This is only a personal appreciation,

        • Samuel Di Lima (Opposition's debator)

          Venezuela has a ton of blacks/mulattoes, I left that out. But I’m pretty sure Colombia does not have too high a percentage of them…..

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Shoot used wrong profile name

    • Tulio

      I’m not aware of any gang problem from Brazilians in the US. I’d wager that the main problems with Latinos come from the ones that can just walk across the border and then bring their families up through family reunification. Every Brazilian I meet in the US is upstanding, speaks English, has an education, is smart and typically professional. They can’t just walk here like Mexicans.

      • jorge

        I’m not from there, but I also think the same. The typical Latin American gangs (that are similar to American ones) are conformed by Mexicans or Central Americans. In South America there is a different “gang culture” (even in very dangerous countries like Brazil or Colombia). And, more importantly, poor people from here don’t migrate to United States (at least in large quantity) because it’s very far, so most part that go to your country is middle class/upper class people or, less, some very educated working class people. Where you can have some problematic South Americans is in Spain, but even them don’t have the typical American “gang culture” (in Europe don’t exist this).

        South Americans that make some crime in North America maybe are associated with drug trafficker, but I think that they don’t conform regular gangs, or at least I never hear about this.

    • jorge

      Argentine and Uruguayans that went to United States were mostly from middle or upper classes. Poor people here rarely migrate to another countries.

      Or were people recently fell down from middle class to working class because some crisis (like this of 1989 or another from mid 90s to 2001).

      Also in Argentina and Uruguay (also Chile, Paraguay, Bolivia, Peru, Ecuador) don’t exist a “gang culture” like in Brazil, Colombia, Venezuela, Central America, Mexico or United States. “Gangs” here have another codes and conformation, and are less problematic. A group of thieves who steal banks, markets, cars, etc. don’t use a “gang” name or paint walls into streets. Don’t “mark territory”.

    • jorge

      Spain is maybe the only country where there are some “ghetto” Argentines (usually with middle class origins, but there they are of working class or underclass). Other countries where Argentines went in bad times are United States, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Chile, Uruguay, Brazil, Mexico, Italy, France, Germany, United Kingdom and Israel. But in this cases usually are professional or, at least, have middle class/upper clas origins.

  7. S.D.

    England’s females seem to have been more keen on boat trips than their Spanish counterparts during the Colonial days so less Amerindian women were shafted by white males above the Rio Grande.

    Today we are dealing with the product of sexual escapades between white men and red women below the Rio Grande.

    Instead they seem to have been so completely decimated by whites that outside of a stabbing behind a frigid Minnesota or Fairbanks bar North American Amerindians do not really commit any sort of crimes at all.

    Their might be a few gangs on Indian reservations and I have heard of drunken Native American females being trafficked in prostitution but beyond that they hardly make the U.S. radar for crimes.

    • EPGAH

      It’s simple: Savages respect force. Sometimes it has to be more strident than others, but after God knows how many “rematches” and betrayals, the savages in America saw that their NEXT betrayal would be their LAST betrayal, so they are very keen to AVOID any future problems with us, doing anything to us that would be construed as an attack. They will go to great lengths to avoid being finished off, as it were? PLUS, they realize they’re dependent on the money we give them.

      Hey, Japan hasn’t fucked with us in almost 70 years either. Do you suppose they remember the beatdown they got the last time they tried that?

      Mexicans or other countries haven’t had their asses kicked nearly as much, and they know they can just stroll into America and STEAL money even if we don’t give it to them, so they have nowhere near as much incentive not to fuck with us. Indeed, they can just whine and get our Government to avoid enforcing our sovereignty, and can even interfere in trials of THEIR criminals in OUR borders.

      Who’s dominating whom here? America needs to reestablish primacy in that “relationship”! It redefines toxic relationships!

      • jorge

        Do you consider American indigenous as “savages”? They reacted as anyone who saw invaded would react. In the Americas, clearly whites were way more “savages” enslaving brutally millions blacks and some Amerindians.

  8. S.D.

    Middle-class and upper-class Argentinian emigres whom I knew spoke of having Italian backgrounds, in particularly.

    None appeared to be Mestizo. They were engineering students.

    I am professing my own ignorance because I have never visited Latin American.

  9. S.D.

    Middle-class Argentinians often profess an Italian background.

  10. S.D.

    QUESTION FOR JORGE

    Italians seem to have flourished in Argentina (Within the limits of some political instability and economic serious issues).

    They came quite impoverished to the country and yet they seem to have risen,

    How?

    • jorge

      It was a time when government here give lands and opportunities to immigrants. Since mid of 19th century, different racist and liberal (but when I say liberal I meant to capitalists, not to left wing like in North America) governments from that times had the intention to attract immigrants because they wanted replace Amerindians and mixed whites (like “gauchos”, whose culture was hated in those times by our elites) for “pure” whites. So, since 1880s started to arrive to the country many immigrants, mainly until the end of World War I (after that, continued arriving European immigrants until some years after the World War II, but in less quantity).

      But our politicians wanted north Europeans, and most part of our immigrants were Italians (mostly from the south) and Spaniards (70% of them were Galicians). Also arrived important minorities of Germans, Polish, Ukrainians, Russians and French. And, last, some little minorities of Bulgarians, Swiss, Finnish, Welsh, Irish, Lebanese, Japanese, Arabs, Armenians… All them mainly peasantry from working class, but also many people from middle class or upper class that escaped of wars.

      They had more experience in technology of that time and were more used in manual labour with tools in towns and cities, while in countryside usually governments gave them lands.

      Meanwhile, many Amerindians of indigenous communities were killed (in genocidal campaigns, similar to American Indian Wars) or stripped off their lands (by rich landowners helped by governments), while those who lived into our Argentine “mestizo culture” (and not in villages from some indigenous nation) were used, since colonial times, as low quality workers (the same with mixed whites from those times that lived here, or their ancestors, before the big European immigration).

      So, with pass of decades, a big part of those European immigrants became middle class and, some, upper class (who were populated since before by descendants of Spaniards from colonial times and by English capitalists that commerced with our country during 19th century).

      Also many Europeans continued being part of working class or, even, underclass.

      While East Europeans and Asians (Lebanese, Armenians, Japanese, Arabs…) had the custom, at least in the first decades here, of form families with people of their same nationality (or descendants of people of their same nation), Italians and Spaniards mixed very much with Amerindians and local whites (who were mostly mixed, much more than today).

  11. S.D.

    Al Pacino with a suntan can hardly be described as “Nordic” but the much-cited Mariel Boatlift consisted of the many of the “whitest” Latin Americans-some of course were also Afro-Caribbeans.

    African and Mediterranean Cubans are not Amerindian Mestizos, it should be noted.

  12. S.D.

    JORGE Does the Italian mafia exist in Argentina?

    • jorge

      Not. But, at least until 10s or 20s, many Italians from some working class neighborhoods of Buenos Aires (like La Boca) and surrounding cities had disrepute of being thugs and thieves, while immigrants from the other contries (Spain, Germany, Poland, Russia, Lebanon -that in those times was part of Otoman empire-) did not had it. In this neighborhoods were common tenements (quasi poor collective housing), in fact, some old big houses that were abandoned by their rich owners during mid 19th century (before the big European immigration) because an yellow fever epidemic in the neighborhoods of the south of Buenos Aires (like La Boca, San Telmo and Barracas) were occupied by poor European immigrants, mainly Italians. In this places developed the subculture related with tango, and were most dangerous areas (in Buenos Aires) of that times (theft, fights, etc. were more common in that neighborhoods), all places with high Italian population (or sons/grandsons of Italians).

  13. S.D.

    How you define Al Pacino with a suntan is negligible (Not Nordic) but as SCARFACE depicted, many white Cuban criminals arrived in the Mariel boat lift (As well as many black ones).

    Cubans are not Amerindian or Mestizo, either.

    At the time SCARFACE was produced Italian-Americans were playing Hispanics in film but nevertheless Mariel Boatlift included many Caucasian criminals under the broad definition.

  14. S.D.

    MARIEL BOATLIFT’S White Hispanic criminals historically committed made the GREATEST IMPACT on U.S. Crime Statistics in Miami during the SCARFACE sequence (1980-1984).

    Many were Afro-Caribbean but it cannot be denied that the WORST HISPANIC CRIMINALS EN MASSE RESEMBLED ITALIAN-AMERICANS LIKE AL PACINIO AND WERE PRESUMABLY PURELY SPANISH.

    MARIEL BOATLIFT contained the whitest Hispanics in Latin America, descended from Northern Spanish Emigres.

    • EPGAH

      It wasn’t a random selection. If you took whites out of our prison, then dumped them on a country you don’t like, I’m sure the crime would be exponentially higher than if you just took random whites and dumped them on that same country.

      THAT’S WHAT THE MARIEL BOATLIFT WAS! A near complete transplant of Cuba’s criminal element. Ironically, prisons are one of the few things we HAVEN’T outsourced in America! Why not dump our criminals on other countries–the way other countries dump their shit on us?

      • Another William Playfair Web

        “If you took whites out of our prison, then dumped them on a country you don’t like”
        Finally talking sense.

      • Another William Playfair Web

        Well………..
        where do you have in mind?
        Canada?
        Liberia? Mexico?

        Some of the worldwide big-nigs wouldn’t let us do it, but otherwise we’d be allowed, we just couldn’t push too hard or the rest of the world, would unite in their hatred of us.

  15. Gay State Girl

    I heard that a significant percentage of South America’s was of Middle Eastern origin. Especially in Brazil.

  16. A lot of Lebanese, especially around southern Brazil, Paraguay and Argentina and particularly where all three of those countries come together. There are a lot of Hezbollah sympathizers down there and has been a bit of a problem.

    • jorge

      Hezbollah sympathizers aren’t only people with Lebanese/Syrian/Arab origin. Many people are in favor of Palestine independence, and consequently, much of it sympathizes with Hezbollah (for example, most part of leftists, or many nationalists, etc.).

      In Argentina, people with Lebanese, Syrian or Arab origins are around 3,500,000 people (going from largest to smallest amount in that order), but most part are Christians. I must also say that most of them have diverse origins (this means that most of them also have ancestors of other nationalities). Only 1,5% of Argentine population profess Islam.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      What is your opinion on Hezbollah? My Cousin’s fiancee is a Christian Lebanese woman and one of my father’s friends the same. We didn’t like them. But like you, we think Netanyahu is a scumbag and Palestinians are victimized. What is your opinion?

      • I love Hezbollah. Until recently, Hezbollah had ~85% support inside Lebanon. It’s now gone down a bit, but it is still high.

      • jorge

        Sorry, I mistook Hezbollah with Hamas. I was talking about Hamas sympathizers, but more than Hamas sympathizers, people that I said sympathize with Palestine independence, beyond that what organization fight for it.

        But sure Hezbollah have some sympathizers here, but I think that most of them are leftists/nationalists (and sure some Muslims) that don’t like Israeli role in Middle East conflicts.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Hamas is controlled by the wealthy Arabs. Having the Jews as the boogeyman is good for their interests is beneficial to them. Yasser Arafat screwed his people in the talks with Yitzhak Rabin. Palestinian s are the victims in both sides.

        • Another William Playfair Web

          Palestinians understand this (ani-arab graffiti in Palestine). They are smarter than prole as shite non-Hispanic White America

        • EPGAH

          If “Palestinians understand this”, why do they keep attacking Israel, thus provoking counterattacks and making the whole Civilized World roll our eyes and “They Did It Again, They Get What They Deserve”? The Palestinian attacks on Israel would be like Mexicans in America openly attacking American civilians, instead of just a “few scattered incidents” that you claim you can’t even find. Interestingly though, they keep attacking, then keep bitching when they get hit back. What’s up with that? Don’t Start None, Won’t Be None–especially if you’re on someone else’s country!

      • jorge

        I don’t know too much about situation there, but I support Palestine independence (but I am against radical Jihad, like I am opposite to radical Zionism) and, about Hezbollah, I have a good refference based on Lebanese people’s support to it (and supporters are not only Shia Muslims, but also are Sunni Muslims, Christians and Druze).

        • I support most of the armed groups to some extent, but I disagree with a lot of their tactics. But this is just how Arabs fight. They’re pretty low-down, dirty-type people and they just do not buy Western standards of human rights. The PLO is ok. I am not wild about Hamas at all or Islamic Jihad, though IJ is not very active these days. I respect Hamas for fighting though. Hamas are definitely terrorists, but not all of their armed actions are terrorist. A lot of times they fire on legitimate targets. Actually most of the time they do.

          The group I like best is called the PFLP. They are about as radical as Hamas, but they are completely nonreligious. They have a lot of Christian members and they have a lot of support among the Christians and more secular Palestinians. They are about as Islamist as Assad. I was in a web group with them for a while, and they are radical as Hell. I could not believe how radical they were. But they were also very much for human rights. They eventually threw me out of the group and banned as a “Zionist spy.” That’s how radical they are. They’re basically Communists, Marxists. Their longtime leader was an Orthodox Christian named George Habash. They also have an armed wing and yes, sometimes they do carry out terrorist attacks, but their guerrilla force is not large.

          PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP! PFLP!

  17. S.D.

    Arabs have been coming to Latin America since it was a colony of Spain.

  18. S.D.

    Certainly you see Mexicans who resemble Sephardic Jews.

  19. S.D.

    Many Mexicans are clearly “Crypto Jews” (Sephardic Jewish ancestry.

  20. S.D.

    Even the Philippines has a small minority of Sephardic Jews but Mexico has significant numbers.

    You definitely see Mexicans who resemble Sephardic Jews, as oppose to Aztec.

  21. S.D.

    Oh definitely if she were standing next to a “Mestizo” like Jennifer Lopez or Danny “Machete” T

    She does not have the broad Mongoloid cheekbones and nose of a Native American like Trejo or Jennifer Lopez do.

  22. S.D.

    EPAGH

    Our criminals who get OUTSOURCED are the ones WHO DON’T GET CAUGHT. If they have any money, they go to Europe like Polanksi. If poor Latin American.

    Mexico gets a great deal of our worst criminals from the United States if they are able to flee the country. All of South American gets the dregs of the U.S. population on the run from the authorities.

    Philippines and Cambodia get the sex criminals-pedophiles and rapists.

  23. jorge

    EPAGH (I don’t know why I can’t reply you).

    About Argentine shanty towns, this are not “government solutions”. Shanty towns are built precariously by poor people. And yes, usually (not always) are better than the other options that they have. In some cases, they lived in shanty towns of smaller cities/towns or in poor shacks in countryside. In another cases, some lived in streets, and other people lived heaped in small houses/apartments (so, for example, if a working class family’s son want to have a own house because formed a new family with a young girl and his house become to small for everybody, he don’t have another option that take some little terrain in a shanty town and build his shack, that will get better with pass of years but still will be poor) or even shacks in another shanty towns. And other people no longer had money to rent a regular place to live. Usually is some of this kind of people who build shanty towns.

    And about Palestine, is natural that some Palestinians attack Israel because it don’t give independence. Some attacks maybe will continue even with an hypothetic Palestinian independence because simply are made by radical Muslims that hate Jews or all the other religions. But some other will stop (if Israel don’t oppress this new hypothetic Palestinian independent state).

  24. Gay State Girl

    I lived in a largely Latino neighborhood, (mostly Puerto Rican, Dominican, and Brazilian) and I never felt threatened when refusing a man’s sexual advances.

    • Another William Playfair Web

      My god the media is obviously not control by evil cuckish leftist Jews anymore. The lies/popular opinion is starting to be biased toward the right.
      Looking at stats in the Almanac.
      U.K. is still “92% White”.

      My god, it is indeed a fucking genocide.
      Tonald Dump and Dann Coulterguiste just make stuff up.
      At this point it is advisable to believe the exact opposite of what comes out of their mouth…..

      • Gay State Girl

        I never paid the pundits much mind. They pander the least common denominator.

        Okay I admit it. I’m personally hoping for a President Trump so that I can play the role of righteous gringa and hide my Guatemalan domestics in my basement.🙂

        bc I have a bit of munchausen and I’m seeking to be superhero🙂

      • Jason Y

        The internet is always free and open to any opinion, no matter how shocking. The far right has all the free speech they could possibly want, even though they’ll never be able to get on cable TV, or even AM radio.

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