The Alt Left Position on Feminism

On the woman question, Rabbit (Altleft.com) does not seem to care much about feminism, while I believe that Gender Feminism is nothing but a man-hating movement, and most women involved in it are there to nurture feelings of anger, rage and mostly resentment towards men. As a man, I do not see why I should support a movement of people who hate me.

I think we should support Equity Feminism though, the movement for women’s equal rights. We should support the Equity Feminist movements in much of the world where women’s rights are much worse than they are. These women deserve their just and healthy Liberation.

I would like to look into Sex-positive Feminism to see if it fits with the Alt Left. I feel good about the Sex-positive Feminism of the Jezebel website. One beef against gender feminists is that they are very puritanical and seem to hate heterosexual men, normal heterosexual male sexuality and even masculinity itself, which they call toxic.

The Alt Left supports straight men and thinks there is nothing wrong with heterosexual male sexuality. We also are not opposed to masculinity, do not think it is toxic but nevertheless do not believe it should be fetishized in a homophobic way. We feel that straight men ought to choose their own paths to their own particular brand of masculinity, even if that involves some healthy androgyny. Different straight men have different masculine styles, and this ought to be respected.

Nevertheless, effeminate behavior in straight men should be opposed, as it is disgusting, degrading and absurd. Effeminate behavior in gay men is simply normative and getting mad at gay men for being effeminate is like getting mad at your dog for barking. This is simply the way most of these men are, and I assume it is tied somehow in with their biological homosexuality.

The Men’s Rights Movements have made some valid points, but most of them have turned into the mirror of Gender Feminism. MRA’s hate women the same way most gender feminists are hostile to men. Neither movement is any more valid than the other, and neither sex deserves to be hated or even praised more than the other.

The sexes are different, but most of the differences are biological, and men and women probably have little control over their gendered behavior. Getting mad at women for causing drama and chaos (the bad side of the Feminine Character) is like kicking your cat for acting like a cat. This is simply women’s normative behavior, and while it should not be encouraged, neither should women be hated for their bad side. At any rate, the Male Character has an extremely bad side too, which appears to be much worse than bad side of the Female Character.

Bottom line is that the sexes have each a good and bad side to their characters, and neither sex deserves to be hated more than the other one. Misogyny is as irrational as misandry. All forms of hardcore sexism ought to be as proscribed as hardcore racism.

You can see where this is headed. The Alt Left thinks that the Feminist Movement has gone way too far and has verged off into Female Supremacism and hatred of men. That doesn’t sound like Liberation to me, and hence the Alt Left rejects the Gender Feminism of the Cultural Left as a hate movement against men that engages in hate speech towards men.

But the Alt Left, while rejecting Cultural Left Feminism, also rejects the regressive, discriminatory, prejudicial and demeaning anti-feminism of Cultural Conservatism. The movement for Women’s Liberation was to free themselves from the shackles of Cultural Conservatism, and at core, this movement was and still should be at least theoretically a good thing.

So the Alt Left position on feminism and women would be moderate, rejecting both Cultural Left Feminism Cultural Conservative Antifeminism.

I believe that one must not hate men in order to be part of the Alt Left. One of the pillars of the Alt Left is the rejection of the man-hatred of Cultural Left Feminism. If you hate men, you can’t be part of the Alt Left. It’s a dealkiller.

37 Comments

Filed under Conservatism, Feminism, Gender Studies, Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Left, Masculinism, Political Science, Radical Feminists, Sane Pro-Woman, Sex

37 responses to “The Alt Left Position on Feminism

  1. Tulio

    You forgot to mention the lie of 77 cents on the dollar.

  2. Jason Y

    Feminism up to a point makes sense. For instance, real sexual harassment, say grabbing a woman’s ass at IHOP, lol, should have zero tolerance. On the other hand, casual flirting at a college should be given some mercy. The bottom line we know what cool behavior is, and what it isn’t. Of course, we all gawk at women sometimes, but unless it just never stops, it should not be a cause for harassment.

  3. As a man, I do not see why I should support a movement of people who hate me.

    Exactly. Dota once told me that there’s a saying in Hindi to the effect that you swing an axe at your own feet; that’s exactly what feminists want men to do, it seems.

    • Anglo-Saxon Maverick

      Fair is fair, whether it is in one’s self interests or not. If people only looked out for their own singular self-interests, there would be no society.

      “The great objects of a society are constantly sacrificed by local interests”.
      -Stephen Breyer
      https://www.google.com/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Stephen+Breyer+on+individual+sacrifices+for+a+society

      Hence, also, ‘The great objects of a society are constantly sacrificed by individual interests’

      However, it’s not a double standards, feminists should make sacrifices and advocate for fairness as well.

      • @ Anglo-Saxon Maverick

        There’s a difference between supporting “fairness” and deliberately engaging in self-sabotage.

        Given feminists’ generally rancorous feelings for men, hoping that they’ll make sacrifices and advocate for fairness is rather naive. Feminism is nothing more than a power grab; men ignore that at their peril.

  4. Anglo-Saxon Maverick

    In response to the whole comment;

    The words the extreme feminists use/ the things they say, are crazy, and indeed it is *”self sabotaging”, to support them, however it’s so laughably a joke, I don’t think there’s any need to be worried, men still have so much more power than women.

  5. Gay State Girl

    I am forced to side with Ted Cruz on something. What a crazy world.

  6. Anglo-Saxon Maverick

    I don’t want to offend anyone with this;
    but what is Anatoly Karlin’s influence on the Alt-Left? I was sort of taken aback on pumpkinperson’s blog when advocated a “14/88” style “race war”
    (“RACE WAR NOW 14/88”, is what he said).

  7. Anglo-Saxon Maverick

    when he advocated…oops

  8. Anglo-Saxon Maverick

    Bay Area Guy;
    Basically Gay State Girl and I are saying the proposals of extreme feminists are so absurd they are irrelevant. I wouldn’t lose sleep over it.

  9. Jason Y

    Gender neutral bathrooms don’t mean much many places cause only one person at a time uses them anyway.

  10. Jason Y

    Nevertheless, effeminate behavior in straight men should be opposed, as it is disgusting, degrading and absurd.

    Based on whose standards? Is playing the piano effeminate? Seems like people need to mind thier own business. Otherwise you start getting into these debates similar to the ones on beauty where the idea seems to be subjective.

    • Jason Y

      Mistake in html

      Quote by Robert

      Nevertheless, effeminate behavior in straight men should be opposed, as it is disgusting, degrading and absurd.

      Based on whose standards? Is playing the piano effeminate? Seems like people need to mind thier own business. Otherwise you start getting into these debates similar to the ones on beauty where the idea seems to be subjective.

    • Like most people, you do not undestand the difference between what I suppose I would call “feminine:” behavior in men and what I call “effeminate” behavior in men. Almost 100% of the straight population, both male and female, completely conflate these two things, which was caused by homophobia more than anything else. The fact that people moronically equate male feminine behavior with male effeminate behavior is the reason for all the insane gay-baiting, gay-bashing and even anti-gay discrimination that feminine straight men have to deal with.

      I would argue that there is a good side of men simply embodying the feminine side of their personality, which all men have. Now, you don’t have to do this of course, and in hypermasculine America, you are not supposed to anyway and hardly any men even want to.

      Playing the piano is probably feminine, but it’s not effeminate. There are a lot of pretty masucline guys who play the piano. Many straight men have some feminine things about them.

      Effeminate means acting like a woman. You know, the way so many gay men do. Acting faggoty. And if you do not know what that is, then I’m not going to explain it anymore.

      Right. Straight men should not act faggoty, effeminate, like a woman, like so many gay men do.

      • Oh no I think you need to say what you mean by “acting faggoty”.

        • Good God, I really have to explain that? Have you ever seen the way a lot of gay men act? I mean, everyone in the whole universe knows what that behavior looks like. I guess you don’t???!!! Effeminate behavior is acting like a woman. That’s what faggoty is, it’s acting like a woman. You’ve never seen a gay man acting faggoty? Where do you live? Mars?

          Honestly, effeminate or faggoty behavior among predominantly straight men is not very common at all, but that could change. I could become a fad to act like a faggot. The latest groovy thing.

          I really don’t like effeminate behavior at all because like most straight men, it repels me and repulses me. On the other hand, gay men who act effeminate or faggoty or like women are just doing what they do. Getting mad at a gay man for acting effeminate is like getting mad at your dog for acting like a dog. This is the way they are, and I hate to say it, but they’re just being normal I am afraid.

          I am actually a straight pure androgyne with some very strong masculine stuff going and then, yeah, there’s a feminine side, but the Hell if I’m effeminate. I’d rather die. I’ve been gay baited much of my life, pursued by gay men more times than I can count and been accused of being gay so many times I can’t even count them. I’ve also been gay bashed by homophobes, once with a baseball bat. So I don’t appreciate you calling me a homophobe. I also don’t appreciate you calling me socially regressive. Hell, if I am socially regressive now, then society has truly gone to Hell.

          News flash! All straight men are homophobes in a manner! Almost no straight men like gay men very much. At best they are very wary and nervous around them. And a lot of straight men have a strong to extreme repulsion and even hatred for gay behaviors. That’s called normal. It’s normal for straight men to feel that way. It’s irrational to demand that straight men throw a love-fest for gay men. Ain’t going to happen and it’s actually probably a bad idea. We should argue instead that straight men be tolerant of gay men.

          MRA’s hate women to an insane degree. The misogyny oozes out of every one of their sites, even if it’s only resentment. Even a Voice for Men is very bad that way. It’s not an equal rights movement. It’s a hate women movement.

          The movement for equal rights for women is a valid progressive project and was one of the great Liberation movements that came out of the 1960’s.

          I don’t use the phrase Cultural Marxism. I use the phrase Cultural Left, and Cultural Left is exactly what you are, apparently, except for the feminism.

          Why are you getting all upset about criticism of homosexuals? Are you gay? If so, that explains a lot.

      • Jason Y

        Actually playing the guitar, in many cases in feminine, though not effeminate, like when otherwise tough guys wail out thier heart on some love song.

        If they poured out thier feeling outside of music, they’d get a pounding. LOL

  11. What the fuck?????

    “effeminate behavior in straight men should be opposed, as it is disgusting, degrading and absurd”

    • Yeah it is. You think straight men should act like flaming faggots? Are you nuts? Most of them don’t, thank God, and let’s keep it that way. Anyway it’s natural for straight men to regard effeminate behavior in men with repulsion and disgust. We don’t like it. On a base, primal level.

      • Jason Y

        I don’t really like flaming behavior, but I’m not God, just an ordinary nobody. Also, I don’t have the time to police behavior.

        Didn’t the Bible say we should work on our own faults before judging others?

  12. You (aka “Alt Left”) sound like a libertarian with some regressive conservative social views and anti-gay feeling. So ironically, both the “Alt Left” and the “Cultural Left” that you describe are both right wing and essentially conservative in nature.

    There’s no such thing as equity feminism. Christina Hoff Sommers is not a movement. No feminists would call her a feminist of any kind. What she is is a conservative leaning ex-feminist who still has an emotional tie to the term “feminism” even as she completely disagrees with what the movement stands for. Several ex-feminists have created such a term. i think “dissident feminist” is the better term. Did Camile Paglia come up with that one? Similarly Wendy McElroy calls herself an “iFeminist”. They all mean “ex-feminist”.

    All feminism is about hating men. If there was really a significant subset of the movement that held an exact opposite view from the majority it would be evident to all. It would be like having a bunch of vegans who go around saying that true veganism means eating human flesh or something. There would be huge fights. In reality the only people who criticize feminists on the grounds of their hatred of men are the MRA and Left anti-feminists.

    You appear to attack the MRA purely to maintain a faux neutrality. I despise people who do this, as they are moral cowards, but it is very common. There’s no comparable hatred of women among the MRA. it simply does not exist. Much as a love of equality doesn’t exist among feminists. There is no symmetry here and no fence so quit pretending to sit on it.

    Oh and for god’s sake stop using that absurd phrase “cultural Marxist”. I’m a Marxist. There’s no such thing as cultural Marxism. It’s a nonsense phrase invented and used only by libertarians.

    • EPGAH

      So, you don’t believe in the Frankfurt School (Which I admit is a bit Tinfoil Hat) but more realistically, in this idiotic belief being pushed now that all cultures are equal, “There Are No Wrong Cultures”™, therefore the ones who are ahead have simply CHEATED to get there.

      That sounds like the Marxist dogma to me, to convince the proles that the bourgeois don’t deserve their better life, and therefore it’s OK to overthrow the country, kill them, and steal their “Better Life”–In the Name of Equality, of course.Tell the losers they’re being exploited, rather than that they did something wrong, which resulted in their current situation, AKA “It’s Not Your Fault, It’s Those Big Meanies”?

      I’m sure you’ll say the Civilized World “hates” savages too, but isn’t it natural to “hate” (As in fight back against) that which is trying to rob and murder you? I bet you have an immune system within you that is doing the same thing on a micro-scale within your very body, without your knowledge or consent.

      You COULD take immunosuppressants and end the “hate” against the murdering thieves, but you might not survive long enough to enjoy your “Moral Victory”.

      • Jason Y

        The expolited did some right and wrong things. The main point however is that the govenment, as well as other outside people have made no effort to improve thier self confidence. Hence, they’re trapped in this loser mentality and don’t advance.

        Generally it’s in the interest of upper classes in feudal shit-holes to make sure the peasants are kept down. This idea started eons before things like Cultural Marxism were ever even thought up.

  13. Jason Y

    I think dudes who police gays or people who seem gay have nothing to do. They need to do something. Go get a job, study at school, start working out. Seems like it’s a hobby for bored assholes.

    • Jason Y

      No I don’t really like guys acting like girls, and especially being transsexual, in the sense of really being effeminate as opposed to being feminine. Nonetheless, like most people, I don’t really have time to police people, nor would I want to.

    • EPGAH

      So you’re saying when the queers wave it in your face, or sexually herass you, you shouldn’t fight back?

      You shouldn’t do something when you see a MAN go into a WOMAN’S bathroom?

      Please, enlighten me!

      • Jason Y

        They don’t sexually harass everyone, just like straight people don’t sexually harass everyone. Yes, if it came down to gays harassing me, I’d have to say something. However, they all don’t harass, probably only a tiny minority.

        Note, however, if the subject became women suing over sexual harassment, then you’d be taking the straight guy’s side 100 percent. Isn’t that hypocritical?

      • Jason Y

        Iv’e not seen that most homophobes have a legit right to bully gays. Generally, they’re bullying gays to feel better about themselves, often in the company of a like-minded crowd. It’s just classic bullying like you’d see on any schoolyard. It’s all just a scheme to gain peer approval and/or vent frustraton over some shit the gay had nothing to do with.

  14. Jason Y

    Some vent over things the other person has really caused, but often, it isn’t the case. Generally speaking people’s lives become hell because they have to deal with these types of frustraton venting characters.

    • Jason Y

      Now, frustraton venting douchebags? Yeah, that’s a group I’d like to beat up for sure.😆

      I’d like to shove thier face in a unflushed toilet too, just like some do to gays.

  15. Pingback: A Brazilian Joins the Alternative Left | Beyond Highbrow - Robert Lindsay

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