Indians Have Created a Worse Environment than Africans

Jm8 writes:

RL: Even in the catastrophic environment of South Asia (often regarded as worse than Black Africa in many ways)…

In terms of disease burden, it does not seem to worse than in Africa but rather the reverse (Africa’s is significantly worse.). See the link below labeled Global Infectious Disease Deaths by Region 2004 from the work of Christopher Eppig, near the top.

What is the cause of all of these diseases? Simply living in a tropical country? Or is it living in utter filth? If Africans have lots of diseases simply due to living in a tropical country, then there is nothing to be done about this, and this is a problem that will go on forever. If they have all of these diseases due to living in utter filth, then that is a problem that could be remedied.

By all accounts, India is a much filthier place than Black Africa.

I agree that Africa has a garbage problem. The garbage, filth, stench and utter depravity of India is only mirrored in some places in Africa. I read a recent travelogue by some men who went to Africa, and as they approached the capital of Burkina Faso, they said the entire desert surrounding the city was covered with swirling garbage. They had to drive through what seemed like tornadoes of swirling garbage on the highway just to get to the city.

The beautiful white sand beaches of Ghana are often dotted with piles of shit because Ghanaians living near the beach are in the ages-old habit of going down to the beach and squatting at the tide line to take a dump.

You see something like an Indian-level collapse in some urban areas in Africa. Urban Nigeria approaches Indian levels of sheer filth, garbage and stench.

Look at Lagos:

Only 1% of the population of Lagos is hooked up to a sewer system. Shitting on streets and sidewalks is very common. Nothing works. The city has a lot of electricity due to oil, but there are continuous blackouts because the people who run the power companies steal most of the oil that is intended to power the city, so there is not enough to power Lagos. Most Lagos residents with any money invest in a generator.

Perhaps not coincidentally, urban Nigeria is also morally collapsed on something like an Indian level.

The slums of Nairobi are horrifying and insanely dangerous. The sheer filth and ruin of these zones approaches the level of a Mumbai slum.

Cities in the “new South Africa” are starting to degenerate into filth, chaos and in particular mass crime, especially violent crime. There is now horrible pollution on some South African beaches because sewer pipes break due to Black workers jerry-rigging things instead of fixing them. Then when the pipes beak, no one comes out to fix them for a few months, and the people who do come out to fix it don’t know how to repair them. South African beaches are now full of garbage.

The sort of collapse there looks something like a Detroit/Newark/Baltimore ruined war zone big city look. The city still functions much as Detroit still does, but it is a mess. Whether America’s urban slums are worse than India, I have no idea. But the entirety of America is not Detroit. And people don’t shit on the sidewalk in Detroit. There are no dead bodies floating in the rivers. There are no rivers of raw sewage flowing down the gutters. The police force is not corrupt and incompetent. There is no mass corruption and bribery in government and business.

This is a higher level of FAIL.

Something has gone seriously wrong in urban South Africa, Kenya and Nigeria. Africans just can’t seem to do this modern urban thing.

However, if you look at basic health indicators, they are actually worse in India than in Sub Saharan Africa! Indicators like infant and maternal mortality, malnutrition, stunting and wasting, and especially access to toilets and shitting outdoors are all worse in India, typically much worse, than they are in Africa.

This shows me that Africans seem to care something about these problems. Your average African seems to be unhappy about high levels of infant and maternal mortality and surely malnutrition, stunting and wasting. Your typical African probably looks around his country and says that it sure would be nice if we had less starvation and deaths of mothers and babies in my country.

He probably considers it somewhat shameful that so many of his countrymen lack food and die in the process of childbirth or soon after. I doubt if your typical African hates most of his countrymen. You can say what you will about tribalism, but I do not think that even members of different tribes hate each other that much. I doubt if African Tribe A wants to see the children of African Tribe B starving and mothers and babies dying in childbirth. Perhaps he does, but I haven’t seen much evidence of it. Sure, they fight sometimes, but tribalism in modern Africa does not typically produce that level of sheer callous sociopathy.

I read a lot of articles about the toilet and sewage crisis in the 3rd World. In India, no one seems to care. Those guys shitting over there in the street? Who cares about them? Those are poor or low caste people who deserve to be living such lives of utter misery because their poverty and low caste is proof that they sinned in past lives, and now they are slowly working it off through many generations of purgatory.

Your average Indian looks at the starving, stunted, children, the diseased, deformed and limbless beggars, and the legions of men shitting in the streets and thinks that he could care less whether those people live or die. Now you just don’t see that sort of callous viciousness in Africa. Faced with such scenes of suffering by their countrymen, I think most Africans feel bad for these people who on some level they probably regard as brothers.

The articles all said that the shitting outdoors problem in Africa, while rather serious in a few countries, was nevertheless not nearly as bad as in India, and furthermore the societal response seemed to be completely different. African governments, confronted with reports that their countrymen were shitting outdoors and on the streets, regarded them with embarrassment and shame. Many governments said that they were aware of the problem and had ongoing programs to deal with it. And indeed, in a number of African countries, dramatic progress had been made on this question in the last 5-10 years.

Interviews with local Africans in countries like Ghana showed the same thing. Locals were ashamed, embarassed and humiliated that they or  their countrymen had to shit outdoors. Over and over, they told the reporters things like, “This is just terrible. I cannot believe we have to shit on the sidewalk like this. This is so humiliating. What is wrong with my country that we cannot fix this?” They reacted the same way that the government officials had. Their attitude was that shitting outdoors was embarrassing, shameful and humiliating for them as citizens of that country. They wanted this problem gone, now.

But in India, no one seems to care. The people who shit outdoors either say they like to do this, or they have been so browbeaten and downtrodden that they feel that they are scum for being low caste and that they somehow deserve this degraded fate to have to shit on a beach. Further, even if they thought this was a problem, almost no one seemed to think that anything would be done about it. There was a sense of total hopelessness about them.

It is these sort of things that I am talking about when I say that the environment is worse in India than in Africa and that honestly I think that most Africans are better human beings than Indians. There still seems to be some sort of a real soul and beating heart in there somewhere in most Africans. In India, I just don’t see it. It’s like those ultimate essences of humanity shriveled up and died.


Filed under Africa, Asia, Burkina Faso, Government, India, Nigeria, North Africa, Regional, Social Problems, Sociology, South Africa, South Asia, Urban Decay, Urban Studies, USA, West Africa

16 responses to “Indians Have Created a Worse Environment than Africans

  1. TJF

    To Rob:

    The slums of Nairobi are horrifying and insanely dangerous. The sheer filth and ruin of these zones approaches the level of a Mumbai slum.

    As you know, Africa is a huge continent with markedly lower population density than India.

    I suspect in African countries with population densities approaching India you would see similar or even worse figures.

    Note the wide range of life expectancy by region in India:

    Life expectancy is pretty good in North Africa (an area that is usually considered culturally different than sub-Saharan Africa) but fairly dismal for at least half of sub-Saharan Africa with 18 countries having a lower life expectancy than the worst Indian state:

    Here’s a comparison of population densities:
    India 382 persons per square kilometer
    African continent 33.6 persons per square kilometer
    United States 35 person per square kilometer

  2. Halal Butcher of Lhasa

    I got the passage from other sites. The indian army officers are VERY well paid; still they’re complaining

    The indian GDP/capita is about US$1600-1700 or 100000-110000 rupees,the starting salary of indian army lieutenant (not counting benefits&allowance)is 56100 rupee/month or 673200 rupee/yr or 6 times of hindu GDP/capita.

    Let’s compared to the US pay sacle:
    US GDP/capita is about $50000 and the starting salary of US lieutenant at $34862.40 is only about 0.7 times of US GDP/capita.

    The hinduwadis love to hide the poverty of the lower castes by using the PPP(purchase Power Parity) GDP figure and accordingly US$1 = 17 rupee not the nominal US$1 = 67 rupees.One comes up with something amazing:
    Starting indian lieutenant pay is $40000, more than $34862.40 for US lieutenants

    • Hasdrubal

      I gotta correct you a little bit here. The $50,000 per year number is for US households not individuals. The pay for a Lieutenant (O-1 and O-2) is pretty much all take home since the army (or other military branch) will provide food and housing or give the officer a monthly stipend to cover those costs for off base housing. Your larger point still seems valid, I just wanted to point out that low level US military officers are not underpaid by any stretch.

      • Halal Butcher of Lhasa

        You must differentiate 2 things:
        1)GDP/capita–the US figure is definitely at least $50,000
        Mind you GDP/capita is NOT average income/capita. You could go check with a book on economics and find out.
        2)The US after-tax family icome might be around US50,000
        “..The pay for a Lieutenant (O-1 and O-2) is pretty much all take home since the army (or other military branch) will provide food and housing or give the officer a monthly stipend to cover those costs for off base housing…”
        Pls read the first article I linked(might, apparently the indian army officers also enjoy quite a bit of fringe benefits, 56100 rupee/month is just basic starting pay. I think it is a world wide thing soldiers enjoy certain extra benefits
        Apparently the indian army care more about its establishment interests than anything else and its probably the only major armed force that keeps growing in manpower. Cutting manpower means forcing the ordinary grunts to become civilian watchmans if not coolies and reduces promotion opportunity of officers.

  3. Horatio

    I’ve had some bad experiences with Africans. Despite the relatively little contact I’ve had with them, I’ve witness a disproportionate amount of violence, and been subject to some myself.

    But I’ve met pleasant Africans too, who have been congenial, wise and spirited.

    Indians on the other hand seem to not have such a dynamic social spectrum. There are some Indian groups who are tolerable, and I have met maybe one or two (one I worked for) who I could say I enjoyed the company of, or at least, found their personality amenable. But the Indian culture runs broad and deep, and in situations where I was forced to work alongside them, it never, ever, was pleasant. It really is a case of the 98% giving the other 2% a bad name.

  4. Jm8

    “Simply living in a tropical country? Or is it living in utter filth? If Africans have lots of diseases simply due to living in a tropical country, then there is nothing to be done about this, and this is a problem that will go on forever.”

    It’s likely often a combination of both. tropical diseases like malaria and hookworm (which is related to filth), river blindness…etc. can be minimized in a tropical country (controlling mosquitoes, avoiding certain water supplies/modifying or cleaning others). One example is the Bahamas which, while it has an overall disease burden level higher than I would have expected, has much lower rate of malaria now than in the past.

  5. Jm8

    The severity of various disease affliction rates in tropical places(in African S. Asia etc) has likely fluctuated over history, depending of settlement patterns(proximity to vectors of disease; infested bodies of water etc. , which some tribes used to traditionally avoid), lifestyles etc. Populations may have been more or less afflicted than now at different times in history.

    • Jm8

      “can be minimized in a tropical country, esp with modern technology e.g.: DDT for mosquitoes(unfortunately banned in certain tropical countries)

  6. Yeah, and the environment they create is WORSE THAN BLACK AFRICA. Not only that, but Indians are smarter, so there is no excuse.

    How is that for FAIL?

    • Jason Y

      People underestimate the effect of the environment, particularly religion. In India’s case, Hinduism holds them back to a large degree. Perhaps the Communists were right to some degree in claiming religion needs to be wiped out.

      • Jason Y

        Who knows what India could accomplish if Hinduism disappeared. Even assuming Indians would still keep the 80 some IQ average they have.

      • Punjabi Sardar

        The main problem in India is lack of quality leadership, due to democratic drivel pulling in all directions.

        Having a centralized military leadership & leaving villages to be republics is what has always worked best.

        If you want to destroy Hindu Dharam, I suggest you prepare to fight 100s of millions of Sikhs & Rajputs with Nukes & desi Sukhois. 🙂

        Jai Bharat

      • Lin

        Its not so simple as getting rid of religion.
        If u chat to the average hinduwadis, he/she will tell u how proud he/she is of the hindu religion. If u ask further what pride, either that person couldn’t say much or worse becomes agitated, or starts blaming the limeys or muslims for their problems. Overall, one should investigate the issue from a psychological view point. Ancient hindus kept very little historical records OR they just take fairy tales like Mahabharata as real. Of course the problem is not restricted to hindus, some stormfront white supremacists if I remember right, claimed that the elves in their favorite movies,lord of the rings(which is basically romanticized racial war) were ancient Aryans. The major difference is at least the greeks and romans kept reasonable historical records. Asking hindus to get rid of Hinduism is like asking heroin addicts to kick their drug habit.
        My conclusion:
        Hinduism basically is racism/casteism sanctified by the brown Aryan invaders.
        Sunni Islam is a vehicle of arab nationalism/tribalism with great success in the past. Shiite islam has become a Persian dilution of the said arab cultural force and is naturally hated for that. A head to toe burqa worn by a woman is literally “fuck your assimulation efforts”
        Protestant Christianity and Mahayana Buddhism are reasonable universal religions and demand little lingual,costume,dietary conformity(Most East Asian Buddhists are NOT vegetarians) . Its perfectly alright for a non-western protestant not to know any bible related lingual expression. As a Chinese protestant, I’m surprised that very few Chinese Christians know the expression ‘Maranatha'(My Lord cometh)

    • Santoculto

      Many ”africans” even create a environment, worse or better, but just look for criminality in India, is very lower for a one billion people living in a peninsula with the same size of Australia and very poor.

      Indians are on average little more smart than subsaharian africans. Iq 90 is in the limit of the sustainability of technological society.

      ”there is no excuse”

      guilty indian elites specially.

      guilty french people for worst and treacherous environment before french revolution.

      guilty indian men, feminazis are right in some aspects about men common failures.

      You’re emotionally agitated with this subject!!

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