The Bell Curve Thirty Years On

From: Arthur Jenson and Philippe Rushton. 2005. Thirty Years of Research on Race Differences in Cognitive Ability, Psychology, Public Policy, and Law. Vol. 11, No. 2, 2.

The Bell Curve (Herrnstein & Murray, 1994) presented general readers an update of the evidence for the hereditarian position along with several policy recommendations and an original analysis of 11,878 youths (including 3,022 Blacks) from the 12-year National Longitudinal Survey of Youth. It found that most 17-year-olds with high scores on the Armed Forces Qualification Test, regardless of ethnic background, went on to occupational success by their late 20’s and early 30’s, whereas those with low scores were more inclined to welfare dependency. The study also found that the average IQ for African Americans was
lower than those for Latino, White, Asian, and Jewish Americans – 85, 89, 103, 106, and 113, respectively (Herrnstein & Murray, 1994, pp. 273–27.)

Currently, the 1.1 standard deviation difference in average IQ between Blacks and Whites in the United States is not in itself a matter of empirical dispute. A meta-analytic review by Roth, Bevier, Bobko, Switzer, and Tyler (2001) showed it also holds for college and university application tests such as the Scholastic Aptitude Test (SAT; N = 2.4 million) and the Graduate Record Examination (GRE; N = 2.3 million), as well as for tests for job applicants in corporate settings (N = 0.5 million) and in the military (N = 0.4 million). Because test scores are the best predictor of economic success in Western society (Schmidt & Hunter, 199), these group differences have important societal outcomes (R. A. Gordon, 1997; Gottfredson, 1997).

At this point, the matter is pretty much settled. These are simply the facts. As the article states, it is no longer a matter of empirical debate that Blacks and Whites differ on these test scores or in fact that these differences represent a measure of intelligence.

As an Alt Left person though, these facts are very depressing to me, but I recognize them as true. I suppose an argument for the Alt Left is that given these facts, to paraphrase a great revolutionary, “What is to be done?”

References

Gordon, R. A. (1997). Everyday life as an intelligence test: Effects of intelligence and intelligence context. Intelligence, 24, 203–320.

Herrnstein, R. J., & Murray, C. (1994). The bell curve. New York: Free Press.

Roth, P. L., Bevier, C. A., Bobko, P., Switzer, F. S., III, & Tyler, P. (2001). Ethnic group differences in cognitive ability in employment and educational settings: A meta-analysis. Personnel Psychology, 54, 297–330.

Schmidt, F. L., & Hunter, J. E. (1998). The validity and utility of selection methods in personnel psychology: Practical and theoretical implications of 85 years of research findings. Psychological Bulletin, 124, 262–274.

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56 Comments

Filed under Asians, Blacks, Economics, Higher Education, Hispanics, Intelligence, Jews, Labor, Left, Psychology, Race/Ethnicity, Sociology, Whites

56 responses to “The Bell Curve Thirty Years On

  1. Jason Y

    Usually race is a gigantic way to deflect attention away from failed neo-liberal policies. Who gives a shit about the bell curve anyhow? it’s not why Latin America, Africa etc.. are over-breeding. They’re doing so because they’re trapped in feudalism. Their governments will literally do NOTHING to help them. If they did, as Robert Lindsay said before, birth rates would come crashing down.

    I’m not denying IQ doesn’t make a difference in things, but it isn’t the main factor causing third worlders to have large families.

    • Johnny

      Problem is also that when you lump these groups as units you are also ignoring the important outliers who will suffer discrimination for no reason. If you’re an accomplished black person with a high IQ some people will just always see you as an anomaly or part of affirmative action despite the relatively low rates of a.a. that are actually applied. That’s just unacceptable to lump everyone together because you don’t like their group.

      It is the economics that is the driving factor. IF you want AfAms to have fewer offspring (and really their birthrates have dropped to below replacement levels anyway) then you have to consider policies that promote integration and absorption. This would require stepping outside the hysteria of AfAms coming for all white women and other tropes, but really IQ leaves out many other aspects of what people are. You can’t always imbue a desire to learn for example, something a high IQ isn’t always intrinsically linked to.

      • Jason Y

        Right, isolating groups and ignoring them, whether by discouraging integration in the USA or promoting feudalism in Latin America, will keep birthrates high. However, the very racists who hate high non-white birthrates are snobs and capitalists who want to keep “far away” from non-whites.

        • Johnny

          Really makes no sense except for many rightwing types there is no consideration of why so much as a desire to complain and then suggest extreme “solutions”. It really is a simple matter of economics though. People who have even a basic semblance of the means to survive (food, shelter etc) aren’t going to be so reckless with their lives. It’s a means towards also lowering crime and addressing other problems.

        • Jason Y

          quote by johnny

          Really makes no sense except for many rightwing types there is no consideration of why so much as a desire to complain and then suggest extreme “solutions”. It really is a simple matter of economics though. People who have even a basic semblance of the means to survive (food, shelter etc) aren’t going to be so reckless with their lives. It’s a means towards also lowering crime and addressing other problems.

          Resorting to be a snob asshole who bitches about people who live 100 miles away is a survival mechanism, though they could be snobs and totally ignore poor non-whites or white trash.

          Yes, the root of the problem is that most people want to live comfortable lives and they have to move away from the poor to acheive that goal.

  2. Jason Y

    Note IQ can change. The Irish at one time had a low IQ and were considered incredibly annoying, maybe even more so than me on this blog LOL. However, thier IQ went up and now is similar to the UK IQ.

    • Jason Y

      My own theory is that increased genetic variation (stopping incest or mild incest) increased the Irish IQ, along with environmental factors.

  3. Carl R

    I agree that, biologically speaking, the broad outline is pretty much settled. As for “What is to be done?” I think that most of the answer is to just stop doing. Stop assuming that if outcomes are different between races, the only possible answer is oppression. Stop arguing for, and setting one’s hopes on, social programs that have no chance of success unless, in contrast to the rest of the living world, differences in intelligence between human groups are always environmental in origin.

    Having lived most of my life in some of the most rural parts of the most reactionary states in the U.S., my observation is that there are significant numbers of people who are inclined to many Left values but feel driven to the Right because of this disconnect from reality about race (and immigration). Few of these people are reflective enough to be self-conscious this, but spend time with them and the psychological dynamic becomes clear. The Left would find it has a much greater potential for sympathy out there if it would just quit living in a dreamworld about race and immigration.

    • Tulio

      Robert has mentioned before that if not for race, we’d have national healthcare in America. When poor whites hear about freely available healthcare they hear “lazy niggers and spics getting free shit from whitey so I’m voting Republican”.

      • Tulio

        And that’s doubly true when the person trying to reform healthcare is suspected of being a Muslim born in Kenya.

        • EPGAH

          Except that the “reform” really DOES exactly that, and makes healthcare MORE expensive for the people who pay their own way. PLUS now a $5,000 deductible in insurance–and all the people who lost their insurance or their whole JOB because of it!

          What sense does it make to punish the industrious, especially in the name of rewarding the indolent?

  4. Trutheller

    The intellectual (not to mention moral and cultural) inferiority of blacks is simply UNDENIABLE – as anyone living in a big city with them sees everyday – and it is indeed the left’s continual denial of this fact that has led them to political defeat in the U.S. time and time again. Any policy made on the assumption that these are “people just like you and me who have the same values” is doomed to failure and can only produce more hellholes like Detroit, the South Side of Chicago etc. etc. etc.

    • Tulio

      I wouldn’t agree that the left is being defeated. On pretty much every major issue I can think of, society has moved in a leftward direction. Be it race, gays, social programs, immigration, death penalty, environment, abortion, guns, etc. I don’t see the right winning any battles long-term. Can anyone think of one major issue where the country has become more conservative than it was 100 years ago?

      • EPGAH

        Great, you’re winning POLITICALLY, but you can’t deny these “wins” are causing the public at large to LOSE! Liberal policy is colliding hard with reality!

        From jobs to illegals raping and murdering their betters, can you name any POSITIVE impact of Liberal policy?
        Truthteller put it softer, but Liberal thug-coddling instead of Conservative policies of protecting ourselves FROM the thugs, Detroit, Chicago, Ferguson, Baltimore, are being destroyed.

      • EPGAH

        TLDR: Can you truly deny America is worse and less safe because of these Liberal “wins”?
        How much disaster do we have to take before we go back to policies that WORKED?

  5. What’s to be done? That’s difficult to determine because let’s not kid ourselves.

    Whether the answer is extermination, eugenics, or whatever it wouldn’t persist to the point where it’s effect can be made if the PC control is as influential as it is.

    The idea is that we need to find a way to apply the main message to the public to get the idea.

    Honestly, as long as the concept of average and aspects of heritability are kept in mind the “truth” isn’t so bad…….the problem lies with the public to make such a transition.

    This issues such as disproportionate crime rates, poverty, school success have been clouded with ideas ranging for asinine to incomplete at best to the general public, so the best we have for general forums to discuss these kinds of things are places like this blog.

    There are ALOT of people and ALOT of arguments on “what should be done”, some being undesirable and some being quite nice. However, due to topics like this being controlled or absent in sufficient data like racial differences it will be difficult to actually adjust for actual application of ANY method.

    I have an idea of how to do this in my particular “solution”, but it’s no formula that’s capable to be applied to others.

    However, if I were to guess, I would propose that race realism should be expressed in a similar sense how race realism was done back in the old days except rather than bordering things at discrete races in terms of public perception we become more individual about it.

    The difference was that race realism in the old days, while there was definitely scientific work on it, the cultural practice was overall clannish in nature.In order for it to be more applicable, learning the concept of average and respecting the individual would be held more in mind.

    Though I suppose there likely were “racist” societies in older days that functioned like this though how common I’m sure. Anyone lived in such a culture?

    • Jason Y

      quote by phil

      This issues such as disproportionate crime rates, poverty, school success have been clouded with ideas ranging for asinine to incomplete at best to the general public, so the best we have for general forums to discuss these kinds of things are places like this blog.

      But really Phil, as I explained in comments down below. What does IQ matter? How would rocket scientist IQ make a difference in making money? It usually doesn’t as money is coming from vocational trades, doing manual labor and saving, or from a biz startup loan from the bank.

      My guess is the whole mess with non-whites seems to flow from other things besides IQ.

      • IQ is also linked to IMPULSE CONTROL, not just “making money”. Lower IQ thus puts people at risk of being more prone to, say, addictions, moments of aggressive violence, worst decision making, etc.

        “My guess is the whole mess with non-whites seems to flow from other things besides IQ.”

        Citations please.

        • Jason Y

          I can’t really make any citations right now, but I know a family in which one sibling makes 200,000 USD a year and is college educated, and the other barely gets by and is addicited to drugs. They both have the same genetic makeup. The lower functioning one has high intellegence, no mental retardation..

        • “They both have the same genetic makeup. The lower functioning one has high intellegence, no mental retardation..”

          Yet do we have metric to validate this? Sibling can be only 50% the same on a genetic level, twins are really the only ones that can be applied for the “control” and “uncontrolled” variables.

  6. Kareem

    I have a feeling that if IQ knowledge became widespread America would burn. Besides the need to escape religious persecution, the notation that anyone could be successful simply by working hard regardless of background is one of the biggest foundations of the U.S. IQ effectively spits on that, since there is a very large correlation between IQ and life success. People (especially in the west) HATE the idea that genetics dictates their life and destiny.

    Hitler was hated not for his genocide (both Mao and Stalin killed more) but for his public obsession with genetic superiority. The race pill was what made him this over-glorified monster. The reason black American slavery (but not irish slavery) is held up as this horrible thing was because of it’s obsession on the racial inferiority of blacks. Once again the race pill was too much and white people have had to pay ever since.

    Anyway, I always felt like the violence always held African Americans more than IQ. There are populations in the 85 IQ range who aren’t anywhere near as violent as blacks. If blacks acted like whites and other races but were simply less bright on average it wouldn’t be so bad.

    • Jason Y

      Groups of blacks are rising out of the sterotypical low achieving violent shell. Generalizations about blacks are really ones about “ghetto blacks”. Of course, non-ghetto blacks might be lower in IQ etc.. but it doesn’t really matter. It probably doesn’t effect thier success in a negative way, and of course, they aren’t violent.

      However, let’s not forget the US pumped crack cocaine into black neighborhoods, on purpose to destabalize black neighborhoods, as they are now probably doing with “meth” or “pain pills” in white neighborhoods.

      • Jason Y

        Yes, often IQ doesn’t mean shit. I mean, for instance, a math degree helps out a lot in rising above everyone else, but it isn’t the only way. You can could also make a crap load of cash being a janitor, or better yet, going into a trade or driving a truck.

        Stuff like good work history and being on time etc.. are often more valuable to an employer than book smarts.

        • Jason Y

          As for myself, I’ll admit I’m kind of a wuss, mama’s boy, Bluntly, I’m not a man. I don’t come on time to school often. I haven’t applied myself to do things. But I know that will put me ahead, probably more than some brainy academic education.

      • Jason Y

        As for Brazil, Santo-culto’s home, I’m sure plenty of blacks, despite the neo-liberal hellhole, are rising out of the dump. But Santo-culto would want to be pessimistic and focus on ghetto Brazillian blacks.

    • Well actually, Irish were view pretty low along with blacks and were even depicted in Newspapers as ape-men like Blacks were, however I doubt they were treated the same way in science like Blacks were.

      Still, I’m pretty sure they were still seen above Blacks.

      • Jason Y

        The Irish were actually seen as worthless, more so than blacks, cause in slavery days, blacks cost money. Irish would keep coming in, much like illegal Latinos do now.

        • Actually I was referring to the Irish as a race rather than slaves

        • Jason Y

          quote by phil

          Actually I was referring to the Irish as a race rather than slaves

          Absoutely the Irish were portrayed as monkeys etc.. Mainly cause the British Isles, themselves, were colonized by Anglo Saxons, and taken away from the Irish and similar people (Celts). Also, as with present day Latinos, Irish were seen as pests, as driving down wages etc..

    • Jason Y

      quote by kareem

      Anyway, I always felt like the violence always held African Americans more than IQ. There are populations in the 85 IQ range who aren’t anywhere near as violent as blacks. If blacks acted like whites and other races but were simply less bright on average it wouldn’t be so bad.

      But only ghetto ones are causing problems. Non-ghetto blacks in the 85 range aren’t causing problems.

  7. Jason Y

    quote by kareem

    I have a feeling that if IQ knowledge became widespread America would burn. Besides the need to escape religious persecution, the notation that anyone could be successful simply by working hard regardless of background is one of the biggest foundations of the U.S. IQ effectively spits on that, since there is a very large correlation between IQ and life success. People (especially in the west) HATE the idea that genetics dictates their life and destiny.

    A larger idea than that is saying “IQ doesn’t mean crap”, as I explained above because it’s all about MONEY. Vocational trades, driving 18 wheeler trucks, owning a store or restaurant, making money off the internet, don’t need massive IQ. Heck, as I said, a janitor who worked hard and invested could make more than a college professor.

    Either people are not getting access to biz startup capital, or they haven’t pursued any vocational trade (or been willing to mop some floors),. That would explain why they don’t have any CASH.

    • Jason Y

      There is some cynical truth in the rapper’s fashion sense, when he wears huge DOLLAR SIGN jewelry.😆 THINK ABOUT IT. What the hell does IQ matter, when via another method, which is often easier, produces the cash that people need to live, or to become rich?

    • That kind of entrepreneurism would still require a decent IQ to manage money like that.

      • Jason Y

        R u sure? Plenty of 85 range IQ people have worked in auto plants, done all kinds of highly skilled things, and have produced massive amounts of cash for themselves.

      • Jason Y

        I can think of several ways a 10 year old could make thousands of dollars right now, assuming they had the startup capital. See, it’s the small amount of knowledge (nothing a 10 year old couldn’t handle) and the startup capital which keeps people from being rich.

        You don’t even really need work ethic, cause you can hire other people to do the manual work.

        • Tulio

          I’m assuming you must be rich since you know all the shortcuts to wealth?

        • Jason Y

          Good one Tulio. The big joke is I’m a loser with no access to startup capital.😆

        • Jason Y

          In fairness to Tulio, It is possible though for somebody to have massive biz startup capital, but be naive and dumb. They would waste a lot of money. It happens all the time. It wouldn’t happen to me though, cause, and not trying to be a bragging idiot, but I know a lot about biz opportunities, marketing etc..

          The big problem is that in order to have capital to make things happen, I’d have to get off government money and get a real job. But government money is paying for my university.

  8. Jason Y

    quote by Phil

    http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx

    I’ll give you this Jason, IQ of 85 CAN get you somewhere and even further with some of the strategies you are talking about.

    Thanks. Sorry about the eating white man’s poop comment in another thread. I was just saying perhaps you were the type of guy who always chooses the “tough” route, that would include accepting racist capitalist oppression. There are a lot of non-whites like that though.

    Some people though have called me a cocksucker for majoring math. Maybe it’s cause they think I suck at it, but probably mainly cause they hate anyone who tries hard at anything. They see them as a sellout.

    Note, I am not bad at math and got a B in Calc I and II, but still more name calling and bullying from a_hole generation X people (or whatever you call the brats)

    • Jason Y

      Right. as Phil was saying, an IQ of 85 is not a block to people’s progress. He noted that following some strategies I was speaking of, even though the business opportunity ones seem a little crazy, would especially help out people who just want to survive and make a good income, but aren’t interested in massive secondary education.

      • Jason Y

        Oh yes, of course, I would NEVER advise going into biz opportunities without a lot of experience though. Too many people getting ripped off !!

        The other stuff though, trucking, saving money from manual labor, getting into a solid vocational trade are good ideas though.

  9. Gary

    Thoroughly depressing that just because you lose out in the lottery of life , in a technical environment you are destined to have a nasty and brutish outcome. And it seems desperately beyond remedy.

    PS : could JasonY please try and formulate his thoughts so that we have less JasonY comment debris. But , it’s probably just me.

    • Thoroughly depressing that just because you lose out in the lottery of life , in a technical environment you are destined to have a nasty and brutish outcome. And it seems desperately beyond remedy.

      These are exactly my feelings about the whole HBD thing in general.

      Thanks for the post, Gary.

      • Jason Y

        Sorry trying not to make too many comments as it is annoying. However, what do you mean “losing the lottery of life”? If that means just having an 85 or so IQ, then that doesn’t mean anything, as all sorts of decent money making jobs can be done by 85 or so IQ people.

        Salaries would be between 50,000 to 200,000 dollars for 85 or so IQ people in trucking, vocational trades etc..

        Yeah, definitely HBDers are too pessimistic. Of course though, their philosophy is heavily biased and often full of hate.

        • Optimus Prime

          On the contrary, I find Jason Y an interesting fellow and has kept the blog going long. Granted, he should organize his thoughts and then comment.

          “Thoroughly depressing that just because you lose out in the lottery of life , in a technical environment you are destined to have a nasty and brutish outcome. And it seems desperately beyond remedy.”

          Thats a very good point Gary, Its infact if you study more about it it is a lottery of life. Unfortunately people have to put up with what they have and endure the miserable things that follow it. Pathetic that a good and vast concept like HBD is reduced in the end as a environment for the lunatics and mentally deranged to drop their festering hatred and malevolence.

    • Jason Y

      I’ll try to organize rants (or the main response) into one blog comment, and then wait to respond from other comments rather than just go “comment crazy”. But I will exercise caution before responding to comments, so as not to cause too many comments.

  10. Jason Y

    quote by phil

    http://www.iqcomparisonsite.com/Occupations.aspx

    I’ll give you this Jason, IQ of 85 CAN get you somewhere and even further with some of the strategies you are talking about.

    The graph seems kind of sketchy. In other words, there is no definite cut off point for certain positions. A few things on there like high school teacher, college professor, electrical engineer and doctor seemed to be off limits to the 85 IQ. Of course, those things would be highly necessary in the third world, as everywhere else.

    • Jason Y

      Note if the African American IQ was even lower during slavery, then those people were literally unable to do anything except manual work. They didn’t even have enough intellegence for a vocational trade.

    • They way to think of it is just a “general range”, and the higher the range would likely predict the quality of said individual is at that profession.

  11. Jason Y

    This article seems to be saying the environment and genetics influence IQ:

    http://examinedexistence.com/is-intelligence-genetic/

  12. Jason Y

    Here is another article which makes quite a bit of sense:

    http://www.education.com/reference/article/factors-influence-intelligence-scores/

    Yeah, of course, it was seem reasonable to say a crappy environment for learning causes a lot of the low IQ.

    • Jason Y

      So can RobertLindsay of anyone else say the scientists who made anti-HBD comments in the reasearch mentioned in the article are full of shit?

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