Female to Male HIV Transmission: Much Ado about Nothing

The Nancy Padian study is the gold standard for heterosexual HIV. It came out in 1989 and has since been blasted from here to Kingdom Come mostly by stupid and crazy gays. They have been beating her to death for “underestimating the risk of heterosexual HIV.” This is a big deal for the gays because the gays, like the religious right, have long sought to portray HIV as a disease that straights are very much at risk of getting. You know, Mr. and Mrs. Jones next door can get it from doing it missionary style.

The reason they do this is very sleazy, cynical, pure politics. Gays think that if HIV is seen as a “gay men’s disease,” which it is at least as far as males are concerned, then most straight people will not want to spend much money on cures, treatments, vaccines, prophylactics, etc. that does not effect them.

So the political gay lunatics have been beating poor Ms. Padian over the head endlessly in a modern day version of a Salem Witch Trial. She was forced to do a number of mea culpas where she lied and said that her study very much underestimates the risk of heterosexual HIV, and she apologizes very, very much to the poor wronged Identity Politics gay nuts. Thing is her apologies were all a big lie. She did this to cave in to PC mandarins who probably threatened to ruin her career unless she told these lies they demanded she tell. Padian’s figures are as relevant today as they were then.

That study followed serodiscordant HIV couples over five years. I do not believe they used condoms, but I am not sure. 20% of the men seroconverted over a 5 year period in which they probably had sex with their wives perhaps ~700 times. So even if you have sex with an HIV positive woman 700 times over years, you only have a 20% chance of getting HIV. See how hard it is to get?

And even in the cases that did transmit – that 20% – there was a high rate of instances of penile and vaginal bleeding. So you see, if you have sex with an HIV positive woman 700 times over several years, you still have an 80% chance of not getting HIV. And even if you do get it, it looks like vaginal or penile bleeding is involved in many cases.

There is also a theory that heterosexual HIV may need multiple dosings in order to infect. In other words, you may have to receive a dosage infection a number of times, maybe quite a few times, for the disease to transmit. Simply getting one dose may not be enough to transmit. This is almost certainly true in the case of men.

Statistically if a man had sex with a woman who was HIV positive, this is his risk of getting HIV:

700 times = 20% risk
350 times = 10% risk
175 times = 5% risk
87 times  = 2.5% risk
35 times  = 1% risk
3.5 times = .1% risk
1 time    = .03% risk

As we can see in this link, The Truth about AIDS and Heterosexual Transmission, a commenter notes that his friend, an infectious disease physician, has treated a number of HIV patients over the years. This doctor said that he has had quite a few men come in over the years who claim to have gotten it from a woman. Subsequent examination of their bodies revealed either needle tracks from recent drug use and/or examination of their anus revealed signs of recent receptive anal sex (How they figure this out, I have no idea). So in almost all cases, the men who said they got it from women either got it from a sharing a needle with a fellow doper or from getting fucked in the ass by another guy.

In the one case in which he found no signs of homosexual anal sex or IV drug abuse, the man had an active case of genital Herpes when he acquired the infection. The doctor felt that the active Herpes infection may have been an adequate vector to transmit the disease from female to male. Studies in Africa imply that active Herpes infection is a risk for HIV transmission.

Another problem is vaginal HIV titers. Titers are the levels of HIV in various parts of the body. HIV titers have to be pretty high otherwise the disease simply will not transmit at all. Saliva titers are ridiculously low, and it is assumed that they cannot possibly transmit. I have looked closely at vaginal titers of HIV, and honestly they are so low that I wonder how they can ever transmit the disease.

HIV is a bloodborne illness.

People keep forgetting that. And it is hard to transmit even compared to other bloodborne illnesses. Hepatitis B is also a bloodborne illness, but it is 50X easier to transmit than HIV.

Receptive anal sex provides a perfect environment for HIV transmission. Anal linings are very fragile, and there is often microscopic bleeding that takes place in the anal lining during anal sex. Semen has a very high level of HIV, and semen can enter the bloodstream directly via small breaks in the anal lining.

The vagina was built to take a pounding by penises on a regular basis, and in addition must stretch out dramatically to do the seemingly impossible delivery of a baby through that tiny hole. The vaginal walls are very thick compared to anal walls. Nevertheless, semen can still get into the bloodstream via the vaginal walls although this is much harder than via anal sex.

The only entry point for the male in heterosexual sex is the urethra, barring cases of penile bleeding. Vaginal titers are so low that one wonders how they can transmit, and these very low titers would have to go through the urethra which has no link to the bloodstream. So anatomically, transmission is going to be pretty difficult female to male.

There was a lot of female to male transmission happening in Thailand among prostitutes a while back. These prostitutes serviced many men a day, and after a while, they were not aroused anymore and they failed to lubricate. So they were basically dry-fucking. This causes vaginal bleeding, and the men were contacting blood in the vagina this way. Presumably this is how the men contracted HIV.

In Africa, many women use vaginal drying techniques because for some bizarre reason, men think it it more pleasurable to have sex with a drier vagina than with a wetter one. Once again, apparently there is quite a bit of vaginal bleeding and the men’s penises are coming into contact with blood once again, presumably causing HIV transmission

There was a famous case of a Black male pornstar named Darren James who went down to Brazil on a porn shoot. He did not have sex with an actual woman. Instead he had sex with a male to female transsexual of some type. He had insertive anal sex with this person, who was infected with HIV, possibly because when they had a more male body, they were living as a homosexual man and caught HIV the usual way that gay men do. I am not sure how relevant the fact that James caught it from a transsexual and not an actual genetic female, but it deserves mention.

It is very much worth noting that while there have been 30-35 HIV cases in the straight porn industry, most were among females who often got it from receptive anal sex with a male star. James is the only one who caught HIV from sex with a “woman.”

A smaller number of men in the industry have gotten HIV, but it has been proven that all of these men except for James got HIV either from IV drug use needle sharing or via engaging in receptive anal sex. Quite a few straight male pornstars also act in the gay porn industry because it pays better. A significant number also work as gay prostitutes, often as escorts. They do this again because the only real way a man can make money as a prostitute is by serving men as there is hardly any market for gigolos or male prostitutes for women.

In all cases but one in the porn industry, the men got it from receptive anal sex with other men or from sharing needles and then gave it to women during filming, often by having insertive anal sex with the women.

Insertive anal sex with a female may be more risky as the penis may come in contact with a small amount of blood via microscopic bleeding in the anal wall of the receptive partner.

The bottom line to all of this is that it in general seems quite hard for a man to get HIV from a woman.

21 Comments

Filed under Africa, Asia, Biology, Cultural Marxists, Health, Heterosexuality, Homosexuality, Illness, Politics, Pornography, Public Health, Regional, Science, SE Asia, Sex, Thailand

21 responses to “Female to Male HIV Transmission: Much Ado about Nothing

  1. Drake

    Bob,

    Firstly, I wish you a very nice 2015. Let’s all go beyond highbrow!

    Secondly, I would like you to share with us, some anecdotical account of facts ( if it doesn’t bother you of course) , on how you came to be interested in researching HIV , educating yourself on the topic and deconstructing the historical momentum you went through during previous decades of the epidemic.

    A considerable section of the site has been devoted to provide risk assessment in terms of Std’s to several readers who desperately write looking for online therapy/ counselling, and, to my mind, you manage to carry out quite optimistic estimates most of the times. Therefore, I consider it would be rather enjoyable to hear directly from the original source, how your education process on the Hiv virus took place.

    If I recall correctly, you seem to have mentioned the following curious details on older posts regarding a similar discussion:

    1) You have been studying the disease since the 80’s, when it had a different name, something liked Gay inmunodeficiency virus, I really don’t remember.

    2) You used to visit a library, somehow, you became friends with the librarian ( a nice black guy) who would give you access to the restricted medical section in which you had the chance to read some of the first articles on the virus.

    3) Some of your friends have unfortunately ( or successfully) engaged in unprotected vaginal sex with street-prostitutes, encounters from which they did no contract Hiv, but they did contract gonorrhea.

    4) You have at different points of your life, had sex with Commercial Sex workers, including both escorts and prostitutes. You have constantly mentioned Hiv would be difficult to get in those cases, though herpes is quite likely to get in those situations.

    5) The first time you were going to get an Hiv test, you were quite scared. Nonetheless, you currently have unprotected sex with women ( as you recently mentioned, that there was always at least one if not two women in your life) but you simply mentioned you did not care anymore.

    In this order of ideas, how. do you think the perception and attitudes towards the virus have changed the during the last four decases? And, in your personal case, how have your ways of thinking, feeling and acting have transformed via education and understanding?

    Regards.

  2. Greg

    Another excellent deconstruction, Robert. If I may, I’d like to add a quote from HIV specialist Dr Handsfield who fields internet enquiries from the worried well on a regular basis:

    “And oral sex is basically safe sex — completely safe with respect to HIV and although not zero risk for other STDs, the chance of infection is far lower than for unprotected vaginal or anal sex. Please educate yourself about the real risks. If you stick with oral sex and condom-protected vaginal or anal sex, you have no HIV worries and very little worry about other STDs. ” DR HANSFIELD

  3. Jason Y

    I still wouldn’t take the chance. For instance, you can visit some sex hot spot like Thailand. It might seem fun, but then there’s the risk. Of course, you can still visit, but I wouldn’t have “actual sex” with a hooker there. But then again you might get AIDS from just kissing one.

    If somebody could take a Thai girl to the clinic (say you wanted to hire one for all week or month) and prove they don’t have AIDS, it would be different.

    People do get AIDS from heterosexual sex. For instance, the guy on the movie “Dallas Buyers Club” He was the biggest homophobe in Texas, and still got it. But then again, he could have got it from needles. What’s worse needles or sex?

    • Greg

      Dallas Buyers’ Club sought to perpetuate the notion that everyone is at equal risk.
      Steven Pounders, who was Woodroof’s doctor from 1989 until he died in 1992, says: “I never thought of him as straight in the least. His wife [Brenda] told me he was bisexual. I’ve seen the movie with her. I’ve had dinner with her, and she said he was never embarrassed about his bisexuality; Ron felt comfortable with who he was.”
      Penny Krispin, a nurse who treated Woodroof and became a close friend, concurs. “Ron was one of my gay patients,” she told a newspaper last year. “I never knew anyone who thought Ron was straight.”

    • alaidaros

      If somebody could take a Thai girl to the clinic (say you wanted to hire one for all week or month) and prove they don’t have AIDS, it would be different

  4. Jason Y

    You say AIDS doesn’t come from women. Well, look at Africa, or India. Obviously the disease spread mostly thru hetero contact. There wasn’t any other way. There may have been some bisexual encounters, and then the bis spread the disease to straight men and women.

  5. Jason Y

    Whether it’s dry (known to cause AIDS easily) or wet screwing, most people aren’t paying attention. Therefore, the golden rule of avoiding hookers and swinging etc.. is the way to go. Unfortunately, the free love days of the 60s are too dangerous. If people need excitement, they can just take pictures and movies, and use a sex toy for a hole.

  6. Lisa

    Oh yes it is low risk, but not zero…but the risks increase if there is ‘dry’ vaginal sex (because of abrasions) or either partner already has an STD (particularly syphilis).

    The female has the higher risk of course.

  7. Pingback: HIV Transmission | Awesome Science

  8. JM

    Big fan here, this is a great blog. To your point, many guidelines for health care workers don’t even recommend testing if one comes into contact with anything besides “blood or bloody fluid,” and they designate vaginal fluid as only “potentially” infectious. Another point to consider is that the HIV virus can’t survive outside a pH range of 7-8. Vaginal fluid has a pH in the 3-4 range. Guess what the pH of rectal fluid is: 7-8 (blood is 7.3-7.4).

    Another reason why heterosexual men might lie about how they got HIV is that some healthcare providers will defer treatment if you admit to being an IV drug user! I know I would lie in that scenario.

    Like you I had a recent scare and got tested. All the while I was freaking out, having been fed all the BS about HIV transmission. Of course I was negative, but your articles were the most reassuring source of information anywhere. Many thanks!

    • Thank you very much my good friend!

      If you think this website is valuable to you, please consider a <a href=”https://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/contribute/>contribution to support the continuation of the site. Donations are the only thing that keep the site operating.

  9. Nightowl2548

    I remember hearing ridiculous statistics about how say 30-70% of people in X country have aids about 20-25 years back. Well, you’d expect X country to be a depopulated wasteland now, like Pripyat outside Chernobyl, however these countries are alive and well, and have no mass graves. Seems to me a coalition of leftists who want research funding (don’t really blame the gays for lying in this circumstance to try to stay alive) and NGO-Missionary types who want big bucks $$$ in donations to live an adventurous life overseas as the “great white savior” made all this shit up. The average Joe is unlikely to ever visit these spots and see the plague is mostly hype to get him to donate, or scare him out of sex. (Upper Middle Class Frigid type women LOVE the excuse aids gave them not to put out)

    When you look at actual statics in these places I hear rates in the 3-6% range. Considering about 4% of males are homosexual, gays and the women they have sex with could easily account for these numbers. In a lot of these countries there is no public “gay” identity like we have in contemporary western nations, however there is just as much “gay” behavior as anywhere else. Unlike the west where a lot of gays lead an exclusive homosexual lifestyle, men in these countries marry and have children (No social security, you need a large family to be looked after in old age.) Such bisexual men just like their western counterparts often are hyper-sexual and visit prostitutes accounting for much of the sex worker epidemic. (Just visit your typical Dirty Book Store in America and notice that well over 4% of the place is dedicated to gay porn, if this group isn’t hyper-sexual why are they such a disproportionate share of the clientele?) Add to the mix the reuse of hypodermic needles through poor medical practices, and by quack non-physician “healers” in such countries and you can explain the epidemic through the well known risk factors instead of it jumping from heterosexual to heterosexual to heterosexual as these bureaucratic prudes want you to think.

  10. Samy

    Hi Dr,
    Few days ago , I was sex with Pros in Bharian . Only for one time and after that I am in fear of HIV.
    First of all I dn’t know that girl have the HIV or not . I kissed her and also fingering then I try to put my penis without condom , but its not happend as it was not hard then I try to make it hard with my hand and touches the vagina with that and within few mnts I ejected in top of vagina with rubbing my penis without insertion in fact not get time to insert . Her vaginal fluid touches my penis . Is that any chances to get HIV+. Please help me out , I am very screed on that . What should I do now.

  11. surreal

    What about when a man has sex with a woman who is having sex with two men who may be HIV+ and one who is not and both men ejaculate externally.

    Do you have any idea of the risk for the HIV- male?

  12. solar

    if an HIV negative male penetrate a HIV positive lady, at what point is d disease transmitted, is it at point of sperm coming out of d penis or immediately she is wet n he penetrate her?

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