Bigfoot News August 23, 2012

Possible hint to the journal where Dr. Melba Ketchum Bigfoot DNA study will be published. One of my sources is a young woman with deep links to the Ketchum study. I had the following conversation with her recently.

RL: Do you know the name of the journal?

Source: (excitedly) Yes! I do! (Laughs).

RL: What!? What the?! Can you tell me the name of it?

Source: (slyly) No, I can’t. I’m sorry. I can’t do that.

RL: Hmmmm. Is it at Nature Magazine?

Source: (insinuating) Well…you’re close…Let’s just put it this way…Hmmm. Let’s see now. Does Nature have other journals associated with it? Say a group of affiliated journals?

RL: Yes, they do, as a matter of fact. There is a whole group associated with them, the Nature group…

Source: (Hinting tone) Well, then, I would suggest that you might want to look there…

RL: An affiliated Nature group journal?

Source: Yes…

Well, there you have it, folks. Put on your thinking caps and get cracking on the mystery.

Ketchum paper may not be released via Newswise list of embargoed journals. Not many folks know this, but there is a secret group on Facebook that has been set up for the Ketchum DNA project. Ketchum and Sally Ramey, her publicist, pretty much hold down the fort there.

The group has about 300 members and is impossible to infiltrate (I know because I tried). The only way to get in is by invite, and you have to have a long track record of interest in Bigfoot with a known identity. All email addresses are checked to try to ferret out imposters. They are unbelievably paranoid, and the group goes completely dark periodically for mysterious and unknown reasons.

Numerous members of the group are now apparently “suspected leakers or spies” and have been shut out of news and updates. Bottom line is it’s basically impossible to infiltrate or get any spies in there. I won’t tell you the name of the group, but it’s something along the lines of The Sasquatch Protection Group. Don’t bother trying to join because you won’t get in.

Yesterday, my August 21 post was the topic of much of the discussion in the group for much of the day. At some point, a person posted the Newswise list of embargoed journals and wondered if the Ketchum paper would be on that list.

Sally Ramey basically flipped out and said she was going to try to prevent the journal from posting to that service in order to keep leakers and embargo breakers out. She also threatened any group members with serious consequences if they were caught with media passwords trying to break into embargoed journal article sites to break the embargo.

Here is the direct quote from Sally:

Because of the interest level in this story, I fully expect the journal not to post it to this service. I will certainly recommend against it when we discuss it with the journal’s PR office. The LAST thing we need is the news to get out before things are in place.

So bottom line is those who are looking in the Newswise list for the embargoed piece may just be out of luck.

Ramey’s statement is important for additional reasons. Skeptics have often stated that the Ketchum team has never stated that the paper is at any journal, much less that it has passed peer review or that it is in line to be published. However, with this latest statement we can clear some of that up.

Is the paper at a journal? Sally Ramey (Ketchum project) says YES.

Has the paper passed peer review? Sally Ramey implies YES (see above).

Is the paper in line to published, possibly soon? Sally Ramey implies YES (see above).

So that ought to clear things up for some of the skeptics.

Elaboration for evidence that Ketchum team may believe that Dogman is a separate entity related to Bigfoot. Yesterday’s piece about the Ketchum team believing that Dogmen exist in the US and are a separate species from Bigfoots caused a lot of derision around the Net. One suggestion was that the Ketchum team had thrown this out there as nonsense to try to ferret out a spy in their ranks. However, that cannot be the case, as I will explain below.

The following is a conversation I had with a young man who is deep with the Ketchum Project.

Source: You know, Dogmen exist!

RL: What the…??? Dogmen?! (Laughs) No way.

Source: Yes! They do! Sally Ramey said so. Sally says they are like Bigfoots, but they are a separate species…

RL: What!? OK, separate species or separate subspecies?

Source: I’m not sure! One or the other. Species? Subspecies?

RL: So it’s like the difference between a Kit Fox and a Swift Fox, then?

Source: Yes! Dogmen are like Bigfoots, but they are somewhat different, a different entity. A different critter.

RL: How do they know this? DNA? Is there genetic evidence for a separate genetic entity?

Source: I don’t know! I know there is a team, associated with the Ketchum people, who are trying to gather Dogman DNA right now…

RL: OK, well, Sally believes this. Maybe Sally believes lots of things. But does Ketchum believe this too, that Dogmen are real, a separate creature related to but separate from a Bigfoot?

Source: She must! She has to! If Sally said, it had to come from Melba! It couldn’t come from anyone else!

RL: Wow…What the heck is a Dogman, anyway? Isn’t it more ape-like?

Source:Well, not really…it has a different nose…a sort of a snout for a nose. And it has longer hair, sort of a mane…

RL: You mean like the Beast of Seven Chutes? Is that a Dogman?

Source: Yes! Exactly! That’s one. That’s exactly what they look like…

OK folks, so there you have it. I have taken a lot of hits for writing this Dogman stuff, but I want to tell you that I have never believed there was anything other than a Bigfoot of one species or subspecies in North America. I thought the existence of other entities was ridiculous if not insane. I still think the existence of a Dogman is ridiculous, and I hardly believe it because it’s so incredible. On the other hand, anything is possible in this wild world.

If Bigfoots exist at all (which in and of itself is completely insane if you ask me) then, what the heck? Why not different types, subspecies or species or whatever, scattered about our benighted land?

Dogman information will not be included in Ketchum paper. Some false ideas are floating around that I am saying that the Ketchum paper will include discussion of the Dogman phenomenon. This is not the case.

While the available evidence suggests that for some reason Ketchum believes in the existence of Dogmen as a separate but related entity to Bigfoots, there will be nothing about Dogmen in the coming paper. Ketchum will write about Dogmen, if at all, possibly in an upcoming paper.

More than one Bigfoot type may exist in the US and the world. There have long been theories that there is more than one Bigfoot type in North America. Some hold that there are up to 20 different distinct types here, either subspecies or species. That sounds insane to me, but who knows? It does appear that the Himalayan Yeti may exist as a separate but related entity to Bigfoots.

There are stories that lack good evidence of other types from the Altai, the Caucasus, Pakistan, Southeast Asia, Malaysia, Indonesia, Australia, the Pamirs, Siberia, Russia, Poland and the Basque Country. There is weak evidence for their existence in Central and South America and in Africa.

Of all of these, the Orang Pendek in Sumatra does seem to exist, but it may be on the verge of extinction. It seems to be completely different from a Bigfoot type, instead related possibly to Homo Floresiensis that went extinct on Flores Island not long ago.

One good theory is that Dogmen, Skunk Apes, Goatmen, Grassmen and whatnot are all either misidentified Bigfoots or are some genetic geographical variations of Bigfoots as in separate species or subspecies. This has the advantage over other theories of at least passing the plausibility test and avoiding the falling down laughing barrier.

Ray Crowe on Dogmen. The great Ray Crowe is not dead as I had feared. Instead he is still with us, quite alive and kicking and working like crazy! My heart goes out to him, and I hope he sticks around this planet as long as possible. He’s truly one of the greats. Ray stopped by my site and wrote about Dogmen.

Here is his extensive remark:

A recent Lindsay release addresses the issue of a dog-faced creature and some speculation concerning possible DNA differentiation from the typical Bigfoot “species” a la Dr. Melba Ketchum.

Readers might be interested in some speculation along those lines by Ray Crowe, to be released in the upcoming Volume 2 of Bigfoot Behavior to be released possibly this fall.

Dog-Headed Creatures

Bord lists in the Bigfoot Casebook where in 1972 a witness saw a Bigfoot with a wolf-like head. The head had an elongated nose and fangs.

Three teenaged boys were driving near a wildlife area and saw what they thought was a dead dog alongside of the road. It was torn open at the stomach with the intestines exposed. The boys stopped to examine; poking a stick at the carcass. Immediately a huge “Werewolf” looking creature screamed at them and charged towards them (not the dog).

The boys piled into the car and raced off to avoid the creature. But it chased after them running up to 35 mph before they outdistanced it. One boy said that the upright hairy creature had ears visible on the side of its head.

He said that the face was like that of an ape. But it had strange ears, “like large lynx-type in appearance.”

Near Grand Rivers, Kentucky, July 1978, 13 year old “Joe” on his dirt bike screamed as the creature grabbed his leg, leaving scratch marks across his right thigh where it had torn through the denim of his Levi’s. The hairy wolf thing was following him on the path through the woods and grabbed him near the road. It ran on two legs and was taller than a man.

“Linda” said the Farmington creature was the size of a large deer but had a massive wolf-like head and pointy ears. It lumbered on across the road into the woods, uncaring of her car’s presence.

In November 2006 near Holly Town, “Steve,” a Department of Natural Resources employee, hired to pick up road-kill in Wisconsin, had just picked up an 80 pound doe deer carcass and put it in the back of his truck.

The truck shook violently, and he looked back in his rear-view mirror and saw a creature lift the deer and a steel ramp that the carcass was tangled in and run off into the heavily wooded area carrying the deer in its arms.

The creature had a distinct muzzle and prominent ears, the head of a wolf. It was said that other sightings of some sort of creature resembling an ape with the head of a wolf had been seen in the past.

Outside of Elkhorn, Wisconsin, a creature was reported in the 1980’s called the Beast of Bray Road. Reporter Linda Godfrey of the Walworth County Week interviewed the witnesses who talked of a Werewolf. The creature was said to be seven feet tall, weighed 400-700 pounds and had a face like a German Shepherd with pointed ears.

The creature had been seen running on all four legs and sitting in the road eating dead road kill. In vehicle headlights, the eyes glow yellow and the odor of decaying meat is noticed.

Not to be left out, Michigan had a popular song, The Legend of the Michigan Dogman, in 1987. The Dogman was first reported in 1887 in Wexford County, when two lumberjacks said they had seen a creature with a man’s body and a dog’s head.

Later, in Paris, Michigan in 1938, “Robert” was said to have been attacked by five wild dogs, one of which walked upright.

Joedy Cook said in 1996, the Norwood, Ohio, police followed up on a report of a creature described as “a dog running on two legs.”

Ronnie Roseman said he interviewed a Lummi Reservation cop who said that 15-20 years ago as the police cruiser was driving along the road and out of the woods, a creature with a snout like a wolf dashed out and deliberately slammed into the car and dented it after bouncing off, then dashed back into the woods. The big hairy creature was really quick, he said.

There was a violent occurrence in Kentucky involving something called The Beast of LBL (Land Between the Lakes). The tale was related by Jan Thompson in the book Jan’s Tales, in a chapter called Creature of LBL.

The spooky area had a long history of hauntings, Indian curses, and mysterious lights over gravestones, hag witches, and tales of a wolf-like upright creature that would attack livestock.

The seven foot Wolfman left barefoot paw-type tracks, and had long hair and a stench of open graves. The huge wolf head had a long snout, sharp incisors and red eyes with huge hands and long spindly-type fingers. At night there were strange howls of painful agony.

Families told of livestock slaughtered, ripped into pieces. Cattle and horses had their legs pulled from the sockets. A farmer found the creature in one of his horse stalls once; he “wet his overalls.”

Thompson goes on to say where two police officers fresh from a crime scene were shaken and pale, one vomiting. They had gotten a call to help with investigating a crime scene at the popular LBL campground where some early season arrivals had been attacked by something. There were county coroners and ambulances besides other official cars on site.

The victims were all dead at the ghastly scene, yellow ribbons of “CRIME SCENE” tape everywhere. The campfire was almost out, and the doors of the motor home were torn loose. Inside were bloody handprints sliding down the metal walls. Outside there was ripped clothing, bodies and body parts with limbs torn off, a pile of bowels and pieces of loose flesh and muscle tissues scattered everywhere.

All of which belonged to three bodies. The remains of what had been hours earlier…a happy vacationing family.

The father, mother and young son, the coroner said, were pierced by claws and incisors. The father had on his corpse four long claw marks, with a smaller digit like a thumb, that was wider than a man’s hand. The marks looked like the man was trying to flee.

An officer stepped out of the motor home holding a garment; a small dress like a five year old would wear, but no small child was found. Fifty yards away in the woods, an officer had blood on his face, hat, and shirt. It had been dripping from a small hand seen in the tree, along with a leg with a white sock still on the foot that was dangling down. The missing child had been found.

She had apparently been taken into the tree and leisurely eaten on as she lay across a large tree branch.

The LBL is a popular campground bringing a lot of extra money into the area; so, of course, like in the movie Jaws, they tried to keep it quiet so as not to scare any tourists away.

Summary

So, what are these wolf-like creatures? There are enough reports that it would appear to be part of the animal menagerie of our forests. The most I can do is make a really wild guess; tongue-in-cheek. It’ll have to do for me until something better comes along.

Could it be a possible hybrid between a Bigfoot and a baboon? Not necessarily today, but in the geological past (baboon fossils go back eight million years)?

All baboons live in troops of up to 150; have long dog-like muzzles, powerful jaws with long heavy canine teeth, close-set eyes, and thick fur except around the muzzle. They also have short tails and bare butts.

The males are considerably larger than the female, up to 90 pounds. The Hamadryads Baboon has a large white mane. The female initiates mating by presenting her rump to the male and gives birth to a single infant after six months.

The baboons have 91% similarity in DNA with a human and are have A, B, and O blood types. They have no problem hybridizing with similar species or even different genera in the wild; like between the Gelada and the Hamadryads baboons which have been distinct for several million years.

Many today argue that they should be classified with the apes. There are five species, and they are generally considered to be Old World monkeys. There is debate over the evolution processes of the baboon; the fact that they are so closely related to humans often scares people. However in 1977, researcher Michael Bedford discovered that human sperm could not penetrate the eggs of non-hominid primates like the baboon.

The chimpanzee group split from a common ancestor around six to eight million years ago. It is commonly believed that following the split, the two distinct lineages had sex with viable hybrids for 1.2 million years, when another split occurred. I assume the same was true between baboons and the common ancestral stock that gave rise to both Bigfoot and humanity.

Could wolf-like Bigfeet have been hanging around since then? Like in Medieval Europe?

And would a Bigfoot be involved with bestiality? Mary Green writes of a possible cow that was molested! The poor cow had its privates treated very roughly, torn up pretty bad. The farmer had no idea what could have caused the massive physical damage; it was something that could have been caused by being bred by a bull.

As an aside, the Russian Ilya Ivanovich Ivanov experimented unsuccessfully with creating human/chimp crosses called Chumans or Manpanzees by artificial insemination. The chimps share with us 99% of coding DNA.

And again, Birute Goldakas writes:

“Chimpanzees are blood relatives who share almost 99 percent of our genetic material. Once blood groups are matched, humans could receive a transfusion from a chimp but not a gorilla or an orangutan.

Some scientists believe that assigning humans and chimpanzees to different families is artificial. UCLA physiologist Jared Diamond argues that humans are the third chimpanzee species.”

So, perhaps the reader can speculate and come up with a better explanation for the dog-headed creatures?

While in the Wayne National Forest in Adams County, Ohio, Joedy Cook found the skull of a baboon. Joedy was hiking on a ridge called Buzzard’s Roost at the time. He speculated that it might have been somebody’s exotic pet that escaped and died or that it was from a nearby Primate Research Center.

As the skull was damaged, he assumed a predator of some kind had brought it there. Originally he thought it was of a dog or coyote, but an expert that he took it to identified it as a baboon. Division of Wildlife said exotic pets, including primates, are legal in Ohio, so there is a brisk trade in exotic creatures of all kinds.

Beast of Seven Chutes before and after and long distance photos. From the site Have You Seen This Creature? the official Beast of Seven Chutes site.

The following is the original photo in a series that were shot by the man on that day. He took many photos and four videos that day. Later he was looking back over them was shocked to find the creature in Photo 32.

Original photo from a distance. Creature is seen in the lower right.

This photo will point out for you exactly where the creature is in the photo.

Same photo with a graphic.

On a return trip about a month later, the man and his girlfriend went down to where the Dogman was and took some comparison photos. This photo shows the man standing in the location where the Dogman was.

The man who took the photo is in this shot a few weeks later, standing in the same spot as the Dogman for comparison purposes.

Other photos show the girlfriend. No photo exists that shows simply the site with no Dogman or humans in it. Some growth occurred in the month interim period, so the scene is not exactly the same, but it is similar. Obviously the Dogman is not some existing feature like a rock pile or tree stump. It is either a real creature, the best mask ever made by mankind, or a good Photoshop job.

The area where the Dogman was is very steep and overgrown and hardly anyone goes down there. It’s also extremely tangled and full of poison oak. There is also reportedly a fence around the area, but that can obviously be traversed, as the man and his girlfriend were able to make it down there.

It has a small animal in its arms, which is either a white poodle (probable) or a rabbit. The creature may be dead, and the Dogman may be feeding on it. Some think that the Dogman has a blood spot on its forehead, possibly from feeding on the white animal. The area around the falls is rural, but it is not uninhabited by any stretch, so the Dogman could easily have killed a small poodle in the area. Another theory is that the white animal is a baby Dogman, but that seems unlikely.

There are many claims that the photo has been debunked, but that does not appear to be the case. The photo remains a very bizarre mystery to this day, seven years after the 2005 shooting.

28 Comments

Filed under Americas, Animals, Anthropology, Apes, Bigfoot, Canada, Genetics, Mammals, North America, Physical, Quebec, Regional, Science, Wild

28 responses to “Bigfoot News August 23, 2012

  1. TheManWithoutAPlan

    Please include me out of the next Dogman hunt, thankyou! I much prefer docile paranormal people.

  2. Righteous Ketchum news btw, Bob, insanely exciting. Thanks so much for the espionage.

  3. Josh/Bahlz

    Great read, As always very interesting, TY

  4. Robert, I saw my first picture of a Dogman yesterday thanks to your blog. I have appreciated your support of the Ketchum study, but you are causing trouble with the leaks you are posting. Can you not ask someone *before* you post some of this secret information? You could (I think) derail years of work that Dr. ketchum has done with some of this stuff. How in the world did you receive the copies of private communications? Surely that is illegal. Robert, could you at least verify some of this stuff ***Before** you post it?.

    • I know someone in the Sasquatch Protection Group, a young woman who works closely with Melba. She sent me the Ramey quote, then told me not to run it because it would cause too much trouble. Then she said, “Oh well, go ahead and run it anyway. It will be interesting to see what happens.”

      As far as the quote about Ramey and the Dogmen, that’s from a young man who works with Ketchum. He gave me permission to print everything that I printed.

      • Robert,
        There is no one in the Sas. Preservation Group that is privy to any of the news re: publication date or study results.The groups intent is written into it’s name .
        We are all on the same page waiting. The source(s) you speak of are most likely misinformed, mistaken or feeding you misinformation, I would not trust them.
        Thank you.

      • Robert, Everyone involved in any way with the project signed NDAs, this man/woman had no right to give you permission to post anything. The only person who can truly give anyone permission to do anything such as sharing any info regarding the study is Dr. Ketchum, and I sincerely suspect that she did not allow this to be shared, nor did she do it. I sincerely pray that the project has not been hurt by this latest blog. However, I have been hurt, through no fault of my own except I “friended” you and discussed with you openly in various blogs for a longer period than the past year that this is a serious research organization, doing groundbreaking work, and that Dr. Ketchum should be treated with the respect due to someone who had the foresight and the **ability** to take a “campfire” story, prove it to be true, and then make plans on how to keep this species safe from being hunted to extinction.

        • nominay

          You remind me of the kind of people at the other “established” Bigfoot sites/forums … full of themselves, full of personal drama and internal feuding. It’s annoying …

        • Hey Nominay,
          It bothers me to hear you malign someone who was just trying to defend Dr K and her associates She is a very scrupulous person who is passionate about protecting Bigfoot. And If you were talking to me, I am not into drama either, so cheers to you, have a good night.

        • nominay

          Alexes,
          I’ve read 3 posts of hers so far, with each one annoying me more than the last. You can chalk that up to my issues all you want, but my gut instinct tells me she will end up getting banned (here) ….
          People like her have such self importance that they beleaguer their point to where their emotions get in the way. She fits the profile of an “establishment Bigfooter” type. It’s not about status necessarily but about personality. There can be any one of a number of obnoxious traits that make someone unpleasant on this blog. For example, Alex Hearn threatened Robert as this site. Twice. Each time it came at the end of a long, rambling comment. In Alex’s case, he was moved enough by his own rhetoric that he felt it warranted threats. Whoever Linda Lesak is (and I really don’t care), she wants to provoke, and make personal, a feud. That’s really boring and unappreciated around here.

        • I don’t think I should ban Linda. She hasn’t been rude enough anyway. I don’t speak to her at all, and to be honest, she is one of my worst enemies. She always goes around to other sites badmouthing me and she never has anything good to say about me. If she thinks she befriended me then she has a curious idea of friendship. I don’t have anything to do with her. She is up there with Kulls and Hearn on my enemies list.

        • Thanks Nominay,
          I agree that getting emotional is not the way to go, but I do believe Linda’s heart is in the right place.I am not wanting to make enemies anywhere just trying to stress that the Sas Preservation group really knows as much as anyone else and nothing more.

  5. Its a big outdoors so one never knows…big fan robert

  6. Sam

    Thanks for your Bigfoot coverage. It’s very interesting. I not sure one really exists. A shame one has to be shot to prove it.
    These two sites show what is purported to be a Neanderthal/Human cross. Could it be not Neanderthal but Bigfoot.

    http://gaizy.hubpages.com/hub/Mystery-Files-The-Story-of-Zana-Do-Neanderthals-Still-Walk-Amongst-us
    http://www.hominology.narod.ru/zanai.htm

  7. Sam

    That didn’t come out right. I not sure one really exists and I’m also not sure one doesn’t exist.

  8. mitchw

    Let’s think for a second: would a journal really kibosh such an important paper like Ketchum’s just because of a few unverifiable leaks on your blog, Robert?

    • mitchew, At this point I’m just not willing to take the chance. Too many people have worked far too long and too hard to secure this project and to ensure the future safety of the Sasquatch from hunters.

    • TheManWithoutAPlan

      I believe that the reason why journals do not want their name out there as about to out the existence of a species that society has fought for decades to keep under raps, is because of the political pressure, threats, and the danger that it may subject them to, given the insane obsessiveness and lack of respect for the law, that the organized groups possess, who are not going to just let this happen without some kind of fight. I know for a fact how vicious they have become. As a heads up, they most likely have the telephones and emails of all key players, wiretapped and eavedropped, for instance. Perhaps RL can take this under consideration. I doubt whether he has yet experienced the full force of their rath. Two locations where these anti-disclosure persons lurk, is on cryptozoology.com and james randi forums. Drop by and you will see the mentality that exists there, and perhaps you may get a glimpse of their as yet undisclosed strategy, that will be designed to counteract the upcoming DNA announcement.

    • Of course not. It’s simply ridiculous!

  9. DDP

    I have to agree with Uncle Tancred here. It just doesn’t add up.

    And as far as the Beast of Seven Chutes, that looks like another blobsquatch picked out of the background. And the size isn’t right when compared with trees and bushes around it. It’s a midget!

  10. Maurice Cloud

    A broad and thoughtful post Steve. Well spoken. “Protection”, as things stand now, is at best a most ambiguous expression, and I don’t see why we shouldn’t include, expectation. When the cat is finally out of the bag it would be naive to say the least that some sort of all-encompassing legal mandate will swiftly follow along upon its/their heels . . . I mean, can you imagine the debate that will surely follow in any impacted state? And then assuming rational thought does carry the day, this, what, completely obliterates the genetic make-up of every bog trotter with a rifle? They’re going to catch a bigfoot in their crosshairs and then think to themselves, “Dang, but I cain’t shoot this critter. It’s protected!”? Poaching is as poaching does. Re: Ketchum, I’m beginning to wonder if our beloved moderator might be being played by her. Who else is talking about her, keeping her name out there? She is supposedly associated with the Olympic Project, but they’re just another members only, secrecy-obsessed clique. She seems, to my eyes anyway, to be something of a glory-hound who is willing to hook up her drip feed to anyone willing to publicise her. And Robert I mean no disrespect to you in this. I’m simply thinking that she might be deliberately sending the occasional tidbit your way in order to stay au courant with the in crowd. Sykes is a different kettle of fish altogether. We’re all holding our breath there. Cheers!

  11. Maurice Cloud

    A hoax, alas. Cheers!

  12. Maurice Cloud

    Indeed they have. Count me as one to whom forestry/wildlife officials have spoken to on this subject. The worst thing about the above hoax is the possible impact it might have on the willingness of these people to finally open up a bit, not ‘gag’ their employees, interns, etc . . . from publicly discussing this not so long ago taboo subject. Cheers!

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