The Trayvon Martin Case

Much ink has now been spilled over the Trayvon Martin case in Sanford, Florida, where an Hispanic man named George Zimmerman shot and killed a 17 year old Black boy.

Zimmerman was a self styled neighborhood watch type who was patrolling his neighborhood. He saw Trayvon walking around the neighborhood wearing a hoodie, and he thought Trayvon looked suspicious so he started to follow the boy.

Trayvon noticed someone was following him and told his girlfriend on the phone that a man was following him and Trayvon was going to try to lose him. Zimmerman called 911, and they told Zimmerman to quit following the boy. “We don’t need you to do that,” they said.

What happened next is very confused. Zimmerman was following Martin in his car and got out of his car to follow him on foot, but Zimmerman said he lost Martin and was heading back to his vehicle. According to Zimmerman, Martin came up behind him and confronted him. “You got a problem?” Martin demanded. “No, I don’t have a problem,” Zimmerman answered. “Well, you do now,” Martin said. Zimmerman then turned and walked away from the ensuing confrontation. As he was walking away, Martin blindsided him with a punch to the back of the head, knocking him to the sidewalk.

Zimmerman was indeed bleeding from the back of head when the police showed up, either from the punch in the head or from getting his head beaten on the pavement, which is more likely (see below). Zimmerman said that Martin then jumped on top of him, pounding his head on the sidewalk while straddling Zimmerman’s chest and pummeling him. They then rolled over onto the grass and the fight continued.

A witness saw Martin on top of Zimmerman beating him. Zimmerman was armed with loaded gun, which he was permitted to carry. While pinned to the ground, he apparently pulled out the gun and shot Martin dead. Zimmerman had grass stains on his back and was bleeding from the face, consistent with his story.

At some point, Zimmerman’s gun was revealed. Martin tried to grab Zimmerman’s gun during the scuffle. At this point, Martin repeatedly threatened to kill Zimmerman, saying, “You’re going to die tonight.”

Witnesses reporting hearing the sounds of whimpering or screams, which some said came from Martin but which actually came from Zimmerman.

Other reports said that Martin confronted Zimmerman, punched him in the nose and knocked him to the ground, and then began slamming his head into the pavement. They then rolled over onto the grass, where the fight continued.

According to Martin’s phone conversation with his girlfriend, the man was following him and Martin was going to try to lose him. The girlfriend then heard the sounds of a conversation. “What are you doing here?” asked Zimmerman. “Why are you following me?” demanded Martin. Sounds of a fight or scuffle followed, and the phone was dropped. Others say that this phone conversation with the girlfriend never occurred.

Police arrived on the scene, and Martin was dead. They believed Zimmerman’s story. According to a terrible Florida “stand your ground” law written by rightwing Florida legislators, there was no way to arrest, much less prosecute Zimmerman under the law. Zimmerman was within his legal rights to do what he did.

The case has sparked a huge brouhaha, with Blacks going predictably insane and liberals joining in to some extent. At first the case seemed outrageously wrong against Zimmerman, but further evidence seems to have put Martin much more in the blame than before. There are demands for Zimmerman to be prosecuted. Many Blacks are calling it cold blooded murder, but that’s not what it looks like anymore. The mayor has resigned.

Martin is looking less and less angelic as time goes by.

He was involved in a fistfight around Thanksgiving with a boy who Martin suspected of  “snitching” on him with regard to marijuana. Just five days before his death, he punched a bus driver. He was recently kicked out of school for having an empty bag of marijuana and a pot pipe in his pocket. Previously, he and his friends were known for hanging out on roofs paintballing cars as they drove by.

Martin was caught in possession of women’s jewelry that was thought to be stolen along with burglary tools. He also graffitied his school’s property and defaced school lockers and doors. He was a fan of hardcore rap music, and he had an interest in handguns. He had already been suspended from school three times.

Gucci Little Piggy describes Martin as a burgeoning hoodlum.

It looks like Martin was getting into a behavioral pattern of increasing fistfights, not uncommon for a boy his age, especially a Black boy. This pattern would be right in line with his blindsiding Zimmerman and then striding his chest and pummeling his face.

At the moment, it does not look like Zimmerman is guilty of any crime.

However, it must be said that Zimmerman set off this whole mess by chasing the boy in the first place. The boy was doing nothing wrong. He was over at his father’s place watching a ballgame when he left to go buy some Skittles and iced tea at the store. He was returning from the store back to the house when Zimmerman started following him. There doesn’t seem to have been a valid reason for Zimmerman to chase the boy in the first place.

The whole thing has turned into a gigantic mess.


Filed under Blacks, Florida, Hispanics, Law, Race Relations, Race/Ethnicity, Regional, Sociology, South, USA

200 responses to “The Trayvon Martin Case

  1. dq

    This kind of incident has “layers of accountability” meaning that each upper layer could neutralize all that follow if it had played out differently.

    Layer one: Zimmerman continuing to follow Martin despite having no reason to. Neighborhood Watch is not empowered to predict, only to report. Call the cops about your suspicion and leave. Zimmerman caused the entire clusterfuck by his meddlesome initial actions. So I place 100% of the blame on him.

    • 100% of the blame? Do you normally go and punch someone who annoys you or do you move along and brush off the affront? You should probably bring that number down a little bit. Martin had agency; he didn’t have to start beating on Zimmerman.

      • dq

        Yes, Martin had every right to pummel Zimmerman. We have every right to protect ourselves against a physical aggressor or trespasser as long as we are willing to suffer the consequences. This is the key. We are all arguing life from the safety of our little home workstations. Zimmerman proved he couldn’t handle what he started the moment he decided to use his gun during a man’s fight (which he himself precipitated).

      • An Unmarried Man

        BTW, why did Zimmerman never announce his intention or role. He never threatened, “I’m the Neighborhood Watch captain!”

        Why not?

        Because it’s a joke. Zimmerman was a joke. If you have a sworn badge, you have something to uphold. If you’re a hallway monitor, you best go home and jack-off to internet porn.

        • etype

          So you’re solution to most everything is go home and jack-off to internet porn. I’m glad you’re not my neighbor.

        • An Unmarried Man

          Can you think of a better alternative?

          Perhaps you get off on chasing down bad guys in your neighborhood LOL!

    • buckhunter1969

      You are serious? Zimmerman is responsible for his actions as is Martin. If Martin would have told Zimmerman he was visiting a neighbor, none of this would have happened. Martin became violent and started the physical contact and by doing so, he put himself and Zimmerman in danger. Zimmerman should have stopped following Martin when told to by the police BUT he was not the one who started the violence, he just finished it. Zimmerman (by his story and the evidence) was getting the crap beat out of him and he was in fear for his safety and life. I personally would have stopped following Martin after the police advised me to but if I were attacked and getting beaten, I would have shot Martin as well. This incident was indeed tragic because EVERYBODY involved made mistakes.

      • kevin g dukes

        who the fuck was zimmerman? town watch? i don’t have to tell any town watch person shit. dumb ass. and if a kid who weights 150 pounds soaking wet can beat a man who weights 250 ibs……………zimmerman is a bitch. he should have been able to handle this kid without ever needing a gun. typical white guy.

        • buckhunter1969

          It is called a neighborhood watch. It is perfectly legal and MANY decent neighborhoods have them. Someone’s weight has nothing to do with fighting, hell Bruce Lee was a tiny man that could kick most anybody’s ass. Zimmerman should have identified himself as neioghborhood watch but we dont know if he did or didn’t. Use of IQ woud have been a better option for both involved. Typical black guy! (Wow, did that sound racist????) If so, stop saying “typical white guy” because it is just as racist!

        • Mr.E2ME

          Uhm, Zimmerman is latino…… Jump to conclusions much or is racism a way of life for you?

      • kevin g dukes

        it’s easy for u white guys to sound tough on internet blogs and if i sounded racist so what? zimmerman was a chump. as for town watch…………it’s a joke. and if trayvon had any training what so ever in boxing or any other art……… would have been reported. now we find out this fat coward was fired from a security job for being to aggressive. a wanta be cop? he is going to jail…………..can’t wait! lmao!

    • Hacienda

      Who cares? Nigger down. Now you got the Panthers up Zimmerman’s ass. Zimmerman just trying to protect his investments. Landed spics have to pay a price, too. You down with this?

      • tulio

        It makes me sick that I have to share this planet with people like you.

        • Hacienda

          Why? Because I don’t act like typical white man who replaces his mouth with a vagina whenever the black/mulatto issue comes up?

          Save it. Asians don’t give a fuck. We didn’t fuck blacks to create a sub-race of mulattos that whites are now beholden to. Asians see blacks for what they are. It isn’t all bad, either. It’s mostly the mulattos that make asses of themselves anyway. But not all bad. I LIKE blacks. The darker the better. Mulattos even. When they are clear that whites OWE them, but not ASIANS. Down with that?

        • Gay State Girl

          “But not all bad. I LIKE blacks. The darker the better.”

          Hear hear.

        • Hacienda

          Whites jus can’t get enough of blackie.

        • Hacienda

          Here’s another version. Crossover madness. Just beautiful.

      • Steve

        no maybe because you said nigger down and basically who cares that he died because its a black person. Then you seemed to propose that Hispanics should get some too.

        I don’t know you but it came across as pretty darn hateful.

        • Steve

          is that the same South Pacific region where white America whupped the Japanese?

          I’m just playin’

        • Hacienda’s comment was not PC, but it summarized the situation pretty well. I would not have phrased it that way myself because I don’t like to use such language.

        • Hacienda

          “Hacienda’s comment….”

          The Bagavad Gita says it’s the person, not the words that matter. Complete flip flop of the quaint American university idea that it’s the words, not the person that matter.

          I’ve been wrongly accused by Hispanics in formal/informal situations of doing things wrong. Like the time a security guard searched my bag insisting that I had shop lifted my items at Rite-Aid. We went back to the cashier and the cashier cleared all the items and the asshole STILL gave me the evil eye.

          Judging by the 911 call, Zimmerman had made up his mind that Trayvon was a criminal and probably approached him very accusatory, aggressive. Probably told him to get out of the neighborhood, we don’t need fucks like you here, I’ll be watching you, etc. LOL. Trayvon probably thought about it, worked himself up, followed him and BLINDSIDED the SOB. Like Tiger Wood’s wife did to Tiger. LOL.

          My 2 cents. Zimmerman is a hero. When you got the Panthers up your ass, you’ve got to have done something right. Trayvon is a martyr. LOL.


        • Steve

          my last comment was supposed to be here. about hacienda telling him as it is. or don’t you agree with that part?

        • Yes! “Nigger down,” “who cares if a Black man gets killed.” Right! That’s telling it like it, bro! I wouldn’t have said it myself, but can you deny that that’s the way that so many millions see it?

        • Steve

          okay, I don’t quite see it like that myself. Maybe if a confirmed bad guy or thug with a track record gets killed, the world is a better place, but just to not care that a black man is killed, its not discriminating between good and bad. They are human beings!

        • Alpha Unit


      • An Unmarried Man

        Tell us more about these “investments” Hace. Investments like this are two-fold. They are bullshit unless you sincerely and moronically believe they have value. And even then, no one else might. Hello Jim Jones. Hello Kool Aid.

  2. etype

    Wrong. Zimmerman was in his rights as a Neighborhood Watch whatever. The law is fairly clear – Zimmerman did not break any laws. If Zimmerman’s account is accurate – then Martin did break the law by attacking Zimmerman, who was acting within his rights… the fault is Martin’s.
    Martin looks to me like he might have a good kid, but got carried into this tragedy by a culture which tutored him to act in a manner that provides for this result. This same culture is the one blowing this out of proportion and twisting it into race baiting. We should know better than to listen to that bullshit.

    • An Unmarried Man

      Yes, modern wimp culture punishing Alpha behavior. Martin started kicking ass and got shot for fighting like a man. I don’t give a shit about your “laws.” Zimmerman was a pussy and caused this.

      I worked in a bar a long time ago and one of the LA Sheriffs who frequented it got in a fight at a nightclub and started get his ass whooped. Guess what he did? He pulled out a pistol from his boot and shot the guy dead. He was legally “correct.”

      • etype

        whine about it all you like tough guy. Bad things can happen to you self professed ‘alpha’s’ and your ‘ass kicking’. Guess you’re not that alpha after all.
        Suck it up.

      • buckhunter1969

        Martin caused this by using violence instead of reason. He put himself in the situation and he paid the consequences for it. Zimmerman was the “alpha” male for finishing the violence. This is not whimp culture, it is REALITY. And you “not giving and a shit about our laws” is the exact reason that this happened and why our society is in the shape that it is in. American youths dont understand that there are consequences for your actions and lack of actions. Ther is also respect for autority and laws, and unfortunately most young people have NO idea what that is.

    • tulio

      Seems to me that Martin was the one standing HIS ground. He didn’t know who the hell Zimmerman was. All he knows is that he has some confrontational guy following him.

      I’d love to see what people would say if it were reversed. If a white man was walking through a black neighborhood and a strange black man started following the white guy and asking confrontational questions.

      • buckhunter1969

        I bet the white guy would answer some questions instead of resorting to violence. Heck maybe the black guy has a gun, likw Zimmerman did, why not answer the questions reasonably? Martin got away from Zimmerman and then approached him to confront him! (at least that is what our news said)

  3. Holy Frijole

    To An Unmarried Man:

    I worked in a bar a long time ago and one of the LA Sheriffs who frequented it got in a fight at a nightclub and started get his ass whooped. Guess what he did? He pulled out a pistol from his boot and shot the guy dead. He was legally “correct.”

    A few years ago I had some guy challenge me to a fight because he thought I looked at him the wrong way. He was in better shape than me and likely a more experienced fighter. I tried to walk around him but he attempted to block my path so.I stepped back and pulled out my can of bear mace and zapped him. He stumbled back, cursed, covered his eyes and started gasping for breath as he leaned up against the outside of a building. I walked away unharmed with my pride and physical being intact.

    I call that fighting like a man….. with a higher IQ.

    • An Unmarried Man

      Non-lethal force is important and if anything, I think that is all that community hallway monitors should be equipped with. I’m no tough guy. I would probably lose about 60-70% of the fights I got into. I would love to walk around with a bean bag gun in my backpack.

  4. WMarkW

    I don’t have anything new to say about the facts of the incident, but as a media story, this case is demonstrating the power of internet to prevent the media from ignoring things. It was a local crime story until liberal bloggers started writing about the racial undertones, and then it became national news about white gunowner kills black teen model student and is protected by Florida laws. Then conservative bloggers started contradicting facts of the case, and we get a much more complex picture of Trayvon as a high school hood on a drug suspension who attacked an armed man after the two had lost contact.

    It’s becoming increasingly difficult for MSM to ignore stories they don’t like, or to oversimplify the narratives they want to tell.

  5. DDP

    One thing you can be certain of. Truth will not matter in this case. Justice will not be served, no matter which party was in the wrong.
    Why? It’s a political football now. Used to drive a wedge in between people so that we continually fight amongst ourselves and have no time to notice all the real injustices going on in this world.
    Nope, truth and justice have no place in this tragedy. They take a backseat to more important things, like re-elections and political power.

  6. Pepperoncini

    Theres a lot of alleged and downright wrong information out on Martin. Right Wingsphere was featuring what they claimed was low slung shorts throwing up 2 FU signs, but it is now accepted that that picture is not of Martin. Michelle Malkin who featured it backtracked and apologized.

    Also the so called “burglary tools” was a screw driver.

    Since when is a screwdriver a “burglary tool”?. It’s not like a screwdriver is a specialised tool used mostly by burglars or locksmiths, like lock picks or slim jims.

    The lead homocide investigator wanted to charge Zimmermann with manslaughter because he was unconvinced with Zimmerman’s version of events, but the State AG overruled.

    If the lone witness is to be believed, he (Martin) was on top of Zimmerman hitting him. This doesn’t still make Martin the agressor just that he got the better of Zimmerman. Even if Martin was the first one to hit, it doesn’t mean Zimmerman didn’t instigate the altercation. If you were in a bar or other place, you can’t go get in someone’s face and when pushed back end up killing the person and claim self defense. If Z-Man had only observed and didn’t follow/approach Martin, things would be different.

    This whole saga is one big clusterfcuk, from patchy media reports to Police incompetence in not doing a drug test on Z-Man and first sending a narcotics officer to question him instead of a homocide investigator.

    • No way should Zimmerman be charged with a thing. No way no way no way no way.

      He was found with the screwdriver and women’s jewelry. He lied about the jewelry. He’s thought to have burglarized it. He had no reason to carry that screwdriver, and the fact that he had it with the jewelry implies he was a burglar, which I believe. The kid was on his way to becoming a typical Black thug.

      Zimmerman was apparently walking away when Martin blindsided him to the back of his head, Black thug style.

      • Pepperoncini

        Well thats Zimmerman’s version of events, 1 that the lead homocide investigator was not convinced with, which is why he wanted to press a manslaughter charge.

        Theres nothing suspicious with possesing a screwdriver. He might have needed it for his car (if he had one) or adjust his footbal helmet or lent it to a friend etc…Pics of the jewlery were sent around to LEOs to see if it matches any stolen jewlery , and it didn’t. Besides the jewlery is totally irrevelant to the case.

        Unless Martin was doing something criminal while he was at the gated community, he is just another innocent civilian.

        • Give it up man. He STOLE that jewelry. He said it wasn’t his and freaked out when they found it. They asked who it belonged to, and he said it belonged to a friend. He lied, the friend knew nothing about it. The screwdriver was found on him at the same time the jewelry was. He had no reason whatsoever to have the screwdriver and he gave no explanation for why he had it. Obviously it was some sort of a burglary tool.

          Get used it, he’s another up and coming YOUNG BLACK THUG. Which is why he reacted how he did, and which is why he is now dead, pretty much.

        • tulio

          Robert, you’re being ridiculous. It’s 100% irrelevant whether he stole jewelry in the past or not with regards to this case. Seriously, if you got in a fight tomorrow and someone killed you, would you consider it relevant if people start pulling up anything wrong you did in your past as some sort of “evidence” against you? Even if that past evidence has absolutely nothing to do with the case at hand? Is that your idea of justice under the law?

        • tulio:

          I disagree with your statement that it is 100% irrelevant whether or not the kid stole jewelry. You know the “broken windows theory” that suggests that cities with litter and broken property and graffiti and crime fare poorly economically and have more crime? I believe the same concept applies to the individual. The Broken Soul theory.

  7. nominay

    “They believed Zimmerman’s story.”

    That was the problem.

    • buckhunter1969

      Zimmermans story matches the evidence and the witness testimony. Martin’s girlfriend stated that Zimmerman asked him “what are you doing here” while she was on the phone with him. The neighborhood watchman was inquiring on what he was doing walking through a gated neighborhood. Nothing that warranted the reaction that was received. The cuts and bruises in Zimmerman did not get there by magic. The young man resorted to violence and he paid the price. Zimmerman (like him or not) did not violate any laws and he was protecting himself from a physical attack. Should this incident have happened? NO! Should there be all of this outrage? NO! It is indeed unfortunate that a young life was ended, but he should not have physically attacked Zimmerman or anybody else. If I was getting beaten and I was scared for my life, I would have shot him too! It is my constitutional right to do so.

      • Pepperoncini

        Martin has the same right to Stand Your Ground / Self Defense that everyone says Zimmerman has. A strange guy in the night is stalking you and then he comes up to you and demands to know what you are doing there, why would anyone think Martin didn’t feel threatned.

        Martin had a legit reason to be there, his dad lived there. There is no proof of Martin engaging in any criminal activity while there.

        If you are the instigator in an altercation and resort to deadly force to save yourself , then you can’t claim self defense and need to face the consequences. I can’t just go up to someone and demand answers and not expect people to get pissed. Sure you have the right to ask people anything but if things go south, then you also own the consequences of your innitial action. Now if Zimmerman had just had some sort of visible Identification showing him to be a community watchman or had taken the advice of the police and not pursued Martin , things would be different. A community watchman’s job is to watch and report, not demand people answer to them.

        My sis has a house in a gated community and another house (where I live with her family) that is a sub-division with a wall but no gate and the road inside the sub-division is private with signs saying community watch. Still, no one here would just go and confront strangers who happen to come in. Leave the confronting/questions to the police because they are in uniform so people won’t feel threatned when they are approached for answers.

      • nominay

        Well the way you tell it, what need for a trial? Again, the problem is the murderer was not charged, let alone detained for further questioning. It’s a strange age we live in where trigger happy Americans with guns are seen as the victims.

        • The young Black thug was on top of Zimmerman, beating the crap out of him. Zimmerman pulled out his gun and shot him. Case closed.

        • tulio

          Robert, if you had a son, and things went down exactly as they did for Martin, you might feel differently. Getting your ass kicked is not reason to kill someone. Seriously, what the fuck dude?!?! Who hasn’t been in a fist fight at least once in their life?? So if someone pulled out a gun every time there was a scuffle this country’s population would be cut in half.

          Zimmerman instigated the incident.

        • etype

          If I owned a house in a neighbourhood that had the highest breakin and robbery rate in Florida, and volunteered for Neighbourhood watch, and in accord with that I saw a unknown man in a hoodie and followed him, and he disappeared and then appeared out of nowhere and jumped on me… I’d shoot him, no questions asked…BAM !
          And if you were honest, and it’s obvious you’re in the state where you hardly know what that is – so would you.
          It is pathetic how you all jump on this and start crying victim on cue like a cheap side show minstrel act.
          If Trayvon wouldn’t have jumped him, he wouldn’t have been shot….but he did – an unfortunate decision, I’d say he made that unfortunate decision because too many fucking dime store gangsters have made the tough-guy/poor victim act their personal life’s sound track. It was your culture that killed Trayvon. Zimmerman is just a chump trying to protect his neighbourhood like decent J.Q Citizen. Wake up and smell the coffee gangsters

        • matt

          Robert, I don’t think that story holds water given the video of the hale and hearty Zimmerman striding into the police station hours after the attack. Not unless he is a fast healer, say like the Hayden Panettiere character in “Heroes.” Have you ever been beaten up as Zimmerman claims he was? If anything, it’s worse after the adrenaline is gone. Something happened, but not that.

        • A witness saw Trayvon on top of Zimmerman beating him up exactly as described while Zimmerman yelled for help. Zimmerman was bleeding from his face and from the back of his head and had grass stains on his back. And apparently he was detained in this incident, correct? He was cuffed.

  8. Steve

    I can understand how if somebody was following him, it could make him worried and aggressive. I can’t condone him going that far but what do you do? You either escape (flight) or confront or attack (fight). If you have made enemies with bad behaviour and you know how common gun ownership and drive-bys are in America, you might be concerned about an attack, maybe a gun attack, if you confront the guy in the car. That could be why he cleverly sneaked away then blindsided him. He probably felt under threat at least.

    On the other hand, he did go too far and I can understand how scared and stuff Zimmerman must have been. He could have felt his life was at risk. People do get beat to death in the street.

    Zimmerman seems like a crank, the way he was acting in the first place.

    He was defending himself but he provoked the guy, so I’m not sure which way to go on this. I’m thinking maybe manslaughter but I’m not sure.

  9. Steve

    If somebody was following my dad in a car, then my dad attacked him, then got killed, I think I would think the guy had some legitimate blame for what happened.

    • buckhunter1969

      There is no blame for that guy because your dad attacked him first. Following somebody is not a crime as long as you dont go “all stalky” on them. Martin attacked a man and he was shot, PLAIN AND SIMPLE. He started the violence and paid the price. More Americans need to legally carry guns so when someone attacks somebody, they would pay the price. If the idea the “hmmm, I might get killed if I attack that person” crossed criminals minds, crime would drop drastically. Look at the old west, (movies lie and do not show the truth about crime) crime was nowhere like it is now. People knew if they screwed up they would be hung or shot on the spot!

      • Steve

        if somebody is following you though, there’s some justification for attacking them or at least a provocation. I mean, why are they doing it? they are doing something against you. They must be up to something that isn’t in your interest or that could harm you in some way. at the least, they are pestering you without consent. it seems to me like some kind of violation or harassment. They are also placing you in a position where it is understandable to feel under threat or in danger. anybody feeling me on this?

        btw I don’t advocate violence in this situation* but I think there is some culpability on their part if you do or some provocation at least. its understandable if you feel under threat and people are liable to be violent if they feel under threat.

        *Personally, I think its smarter to ask them what’s up (unless its a car full of gangbangers, in which case, try to loose them).

        • The kid wasn’t being followed anymore. He lost Zimmerman. Zimmerman was on his way back to his truck when Trayvon popped up out of nowhere and confronted him. Trayvon more or less sought him out for a confrontation after having lost him, AFAICT. Then Trayvon assaulted him after Zimmerman tried to back down and walk away. If someone is following me, I sure as Hell am not going to punch them out!

      • Steve

        how well could he have lost him though? he must have been hiding somewhere very nearby. he wasn’t completely out of the situation. I’m only saying there was some provocation.

  10. The “stand your ground” rule is reasonable because it can be more dangerous to try to disengage. Many people who are attacked get attacked as they are walking away. This seems to stimulate aggression via the “chase response”.

  11. KarolS

    The top news story on the BBC right now is “Shawn Tyson guilty of murdering two Britons in Florida”

    Mr Tyson spotted the victims before he shot them and said, “Who are those crackers walking past the park?” –

    Can you here the clamor of US journalists investigating? Is it on the front page of the NYT and CNN? Are there heartfelt editorials spelling out what the murder means for America? What do you hear about the story from the US media? Crickets.

  12. kevin g dukes

    whats interesting is that there is no mention of the prior arrests of zimmerman or the fact that there are witnesses that say exactly the opposite of what u claim some “unknown witness” is saying. there is no way in hell under any law that this man should not have been arrested. then we find out who is daddy is and we find out why he expects to get away with murder. the law says u dont have to retreat………….but if u r the aggresser……..u r not retreating so this law does not apply and will not protect him. this was a child. zimmerman is a grown man and out weights this kid by a hundred pounds……………but it was him on the ground? i hope they hang
    his fat ass…………and fire that entire police department.

    • buckhunter1969

      It was NOT murder! He will NOT go to jail for murder, manslaughter, or any other killing charge. He was within his rights to defend himself from an aggressor. Physical attributes have nothing to do with fighting especially when you are sucker punched. Martin DESERVED (as would I if I did the same) to be shot! I am a big man Kevin g dukes, and I can handle myself when it comes to fighting. Would you shoot me if I was bashing your head on concrete? If you were in fear for your life? You damn sure would! This has NOTHING to do with race, it has EVERYTHING to do with consequences for your actions!

  13. kevin g dukes

    one other thing…………..martin like most kids was taught not to talk to strangers………… he did not have to answer zimmerman. who the fuck was zimmerman to stop anyone and ask them anything? this kid had his hands and some snacks ………. zimmerman had a gun………..and he’s the alpha male? zimmerman……………was a bitch.

  14. Gay State Girl

    George Zimmerman’s father is Robert Zimmerman hahaha.

  15. Nordic Plant

    I think Martin had the right to stand HIS ground… Questions of his character are not relevant to this particular event. If a strange guy is following you (with a gun no less) you don’t have the right to fight for your life? Zimmerman went hunting, he found a prey that fought back so he shot him. There needs to be a trial.

    • etype

      No, Zimmerman was within his rights as a Neighbourhood watch volunteer. It’s really too bad Trayvon or anyone like him doesn’t enjoy being followed in a strange neighbourhood. Life is full of hard knocks for you wannabe gangsters…I am so sympathetic! The hoodie and the sudden attacks from nowhere don’t allow people the time to enjoy your funlovin scamp like natures. There is no time to grok the winning smile on your average moon-light thug. I hope more Neighbourhood Watches arm themselves and say ‘enough crime’, ‘enough rape’, enough destruction – we are going to make our streets safe….that means not safe for thugs btw.
      It amazes me how you all start bawling and pointing at what a teddy bear, sweetie pie Trayvon Martin was. Typical civil rights bullshit. None of you make a peep about getting on the straight edge when some white is killed, beaten, raped or robbed.
      But poor Trayvon! Woe is me! Won’t stand for it!
      Those days are slipping away fast when that shit would fly my friends.

      • buckhunter1969

        Bravo! It is indeed time for more Americans to take their streets back! Crime has taken control of our culture and it is time for it to stop! Protect yourself America!

        • tulio

          Crime has been on a sharp decline in America in the past few decades. Only right-wing paranoid whites think everyone is out to get them.

        • Matt

          I’m a white guy, and I live in a decent (mixed) neighborhood on the border of several bad ones. Crime exists, but it is rarely the ever present reality that some of these whackadoos seem to think. Tulio, you’re right about the stats. And anyone who’s lived through the 80s can tell you that things in this regard have gotten better, not worse.

          If some of these barney fifes and survivalist wannabees experience a lot of crime and hostility, I wonder if they aren’t bringing it on themselves by being jerks. I know they make me want to give them a sound thrashing.

        • etype

          Okay! So let’s put on the rose coloured glasses and turn our backs on reality, cuz anyone experiencing a lot of crime and hostility is a jerk (except of course, noble Trayvon…)

        • Gay State Girl

          There is some merit to what Tulio is saying. Half of the people who are victims of violent crime are involved with drug dealers.

  16. buckhunter1969

    All of this uproar because an “innocent” kid was shot???? What about the innocent kid that had gasoline poured over him and set ablaze? What about a $10,000.00 bounty placed on a man by an activist group??? I am fed up with all of this bulls#$t that is on the news. A man was attacked by a thug and he shot the thug! It has nothing to do with what color the thug was! If a white thug attacked a black neighborhood watchman, I would feel the same way! The issue is about crime and violence. Was this shooting justified, YES! If I was attacked by ANYBODY (white, black, asian, or any race) and I was in fear for my life, I would shoot them! PERIOD! Most of the people that i have discussed this with, agree (my white and black friends)! Stop playing the race card and start worrying about crime!

    • Pepperoncini

      And what makes you say Trayon is a thug?

      The reason the kid who was burned is not making the news with the same attention as this case is because the cops in that case are not being accused of doing nothing to the perps. This case has got soo much attention not because a Black kid died , but because the law didn’t do anything to the killer.

      There was recently a case of a White teens running down and killing a Black guy because they wanted to kill a Black person, but that case didn’t become controversial and receive this level of media scrutiny because law enforcement arrested and charged the perps.

      • He’s heading towards thuggery. He got into a fistfight with another Black kid for “snitching.” He got into a fistfight with a bus driver 5 days prior to his death. He was apparently caught with burglary tools and stolen jewelry, so he’s a burglar. He vandalized and graffitied school property by writing on doors and walls. He had been suspended from school 3 times already. We can see clearly what road he’s headed down – the road to becoming an up and coming Black thug.

  17. America won’t go far when many of its citizens are armed with lethal weaponry. Besides the constitutional right to bear arms is completely irrelevant now as the British have for long posed no threat to the USA.

    • DDP

      “America won’t go far when many of its citizens are armed with lethal weaponry.”

      Wow. That is such laughable statement. On so many levels.

      The constitutional right to bear arms is not there to protect us from the British. It’s there to protect us from our own gov’t and each other.

      Governments are, statistically, the most dangerous thing on Earth.

      And I love how the media is trying to portray this as a black vs. white matter when Zimmerman is Hispanic.

      This WILL be used as a tool to attack Florida’s “stand your ground” law and our 2nd amendment RIGHTS. All gun control laws serve to disarm law-abiding people and leave them helpless against crooks and an ever-encroaching fascistic police state in this country.

      Remember Katrina when the National Guard when to the high and dry areas of New Orleans and confiscated the firearms from the citizens, leaving them vulnerable to crime and thuggery? Totally illegal, but they did it anyway.

  18. If everyone has a gun then your more likely to be killed or kill, then without. It doesn’t work as a deterrent, if one guy carries a gun and successfully defends his/herself against a thug, then someother thug will want to acquire a gun to make sure that his mugging is successful.

  19. I don’t think using guns to attack another rival gang is so much defending one self. If guns were made illegal homicide rates would be so much lower as killing each other wouldn’t be as easy. You look at the homicide rates of all of americas big cities with white and minority majorities, they all have a high concentration of gun outlets and a high rate of homicide. Guns are to easy to get

    • buckhunter1969

      You are so incorrect asante. Guns do not kill people, people do. I will bear arms and I will have the ability to protect myself and my family. I do not go around killing people. Homicide rates would not change if guns were made illegal, the killers would just use other weapons. Your knowledge (or lack there of) of guns is flawed.

      • nominay

        That’s like saying whenever any accident having to do with machinery happens, it’s the man who made it, not the machine. And IED’s did not kill all of those troops of ours in Iraq, the person who planted them did, or the person who made them. Or wait a minute – it was the person who made those chemicals who killed them …. anything but the device itself!

      • Steve

        If you want to make that argument, your best bet is to refer to the Swiss, who have a peaceful society but are armed to the teeth:

        However, American society has a lot more poor and downtrodden people, a lot more conflict and dysfunctionality and violence. This , plus widespread gun ownership, has to spell trouble. Its easier to kill somebody with a gun that anything else, so more violent encounters involving guns will end in death. More people will be using deadly force to defend themselves or to get revenge for deadly force. Why do you need guns anyway? what good do they do? You can say to defend yourself but if nobody else has guns, you don’t need guns to defend yourself. They’re just a tool designed to inflict serious injury and death. As a British person the idea of everybody having guns just seems barbaric and scary.

        America has the highest murder rate in the developed world by far. A lot of those murders are with guns. If nobody has guns, its just harder and less likely they’re gonna kill people. If you’ve got a gun, you don’t need hands on violence and effort. You just pull a trigger from a distance. Its so easy. Gives you so much more power when you can just reach for that gun. And people do.

  20. Shawn

    Look for my comments over at this ethnic (Asian) interest blog:

    My screen name is Fun9876.

  21. Again I’m impressed by Robert’s ability to avoid being swept up by the politically correct party line. Ex-Army has several posts with lots of useful links on the Trayvon affair:

  22. Steve

    Apparently it took place in a gated community so I guess Zimmerman thought he shouldn’t be in there or something.

    • He should not have followed him. That’s completely clear. That’s what set off the whole mess. There was no reason to follow that boy. That’s what antagonized the kid. Trayvon was on his way to becoming a bad person, but I don’t think that means he needed to be killed.

  23. Ken Hoop

    Some, perhaps many, of the “liberal” “progessive” bloggers and commentators are using this as a means of letting their “white guilt” overflow by calling Zimmerman, a non-white metztizo, White. And usually proceeding to make their anti-White points in the process.

    • Steve

      crime statistics include Hispanics as white too I think, thus making the white murder rate appear closer to the black murder rate, since Hispanics are in between.

      • Steve

        Spanish people are pretty much white but the Hispanics in America are Latinos which means part native central and south America.

        • Gay State Girl

          Most of the Hispanics in the Northeast are Caribbean Mulattos, you’d be insane to classify them as white. They are pretty much lumped in with blacks. I don’t think anyone is trying to whitewash hispanic crime and brand it as white, Zimmerman is just not a hispanic sounding name.

        • Steve

          Zimmerman sounds Jewish. Bob Dylan’s real name.

          The Mulattos ones might get lumped in with blacks but the fact is that Mexicans, who you can often see are part native American by their bone structure, and other Latinos, are classed as Hispanic and lumped in the white category in certain crime stats.

        • Gay State Girl

          I don’t know how it is in Europe, where I’m assuming the Latino population is existent but pretty much overlooked on government statistics and databases, so it wouldn’t surprise me if light skinned mestizos are lumped in with whites, as Arabs are classified as whites in North America.

        • Steve

          GSG There are some Latin American individuals here and there (I can only think of one that I’ve ever met) but there’s no Latino community, no significant amount, as far as I know.

        • Gay State Girl

          I know some Latin Americans living in the UK as well. I remember that the day after the London subway bombings, Scotland Yard shot a Brazilian who was running to catch his train. I believe Marianne Pearl, the widow of Daniel Pearl was of Cuban extraction and grew up in Paris.

          From what I gather, the majority of Latin Americans in Northern Europe are wealthy and educated and white or castizo, so they are pretty much irrelevant on census forms, no one has studied them as a demographic and they just get lumped in with whites.

  24. Let’s dismiss the BS…this is getting ridiculous

    First of all, the infamous hoodie debate…let’s get serious people…

    This is an everyday fall and winter apparel that is worn by most college students, most athletes, most joggers, and is the preferred winter gear for almost everyone I know who works in construction…you know, the work of ‘real men’…those who built America…real Alpha male stuff!!!

    The only one with a REAL criminal record here is George Zimmerman!

    2005 – “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer.” Both felonies!!

    2005 – civil motion for a restraining order, alleging domestic violence.
    Zimmerman, basically, a woman beating pussy!

    And why did he get off on lesser charges?
    You don’t think it was because his father was a retired judge do ya??!!!!

    1.) Zimmerman disobeyed the authorities and kept pursing this youngster
    2.) Zimmerman was not legally authorized to carry a weapon or firearm in the capacity of a certified security personal or guard.
    3.) Zimmerman was not allowed to carry a weapon or firearm as a neighborhood watch volunteer.
    4.) Zimmerman had absolutely no authority to pursue, engage, or question this young man.

    He was a wannabe cop, and the only reason he went after and stalked that young man was because the youngster was so small in build, he thought this was one Black male he could physically handle!
    Zimmerman? …better yet, Super pussy!

    I have nothing against Latinos, but for those who are into this, he was Hispanic and not “white” rant, there are millions of Hispanics who consider themselves “white” regardless of how “brown” they look…Just ask some Afro-Latinos how they are treated in various Latin American countries and in some parts of the US. If this was any other subject matter, such as the subject of DNA and genetics (a favorite at this forum) there would be all of this talk about the high percentage of “white European blood” in Latin America.

    This Zimmerman pursued this kid and was the aggressor, and this 170 pounds young man had the right to be frighten being approached in the middle of the night by a 250 pound man…Even if the youngster fought off Zimmerman, Trayvon Martin had the right “to stand his ground” (as the law says), for Trayvon Martin hadn’t broken any laws and had the legal right to be in that community and the constitutional right to walk down the street unimpeded by another citizen!

    But really…

    The fact that a 250 pound 28 year-old man with a firearm, is claiming that a 170 pound just turned 17 year-old unarmed teenager broke his nose, knocked him down, pinned him, and beat his ass as he hollered for help, is enough to send sissy-ass George to jail, for Jimbo and Big Benny need a new bitch!

    • tulio

      Dubz, I couldn’t have put it better myself. I can’t believe Robert’s statements on this topic. It’s like he’s on an anti-black tirade here. Honestly I expected better of someone claiming to be from the left.

      Oh, and remember:

      • I am not on an anti-Black tirade here. I just think it’s sick that the liberals and Left especially and all the Blacks are lining up with the Black thug, and the conservatives are all lining up with Zimmerman. Pathetic. No one is thinking for themselves. No one, not one person. I’m on the Left, and I’m with Zimmerman. Fuck Trayvon. Zimmerman broke no laws. The whole thing is a terrible mess, but the Black thug basically started the whole confrontation.

        It’s become a political football whereby most of Zimmerman’s supporters are anti-Black racists and most of Trayvon’s are the antis and the Blacks, but that’s just unfortunate. It doesn’t have to be that way.

        • tulio

          For someone to be a thug, they must be a criminal. What crime was Martin ever convicted of? Wearing a fucking hoodie does not make one a thug. Hell, I have a hoodie I go jogging when it’s cold. I guess I better not go jogging with it at night being black or someone might think I’m a criminal who deserves to die too.

        • He’s a junior wannabe thug. There’s photos of him throwing gang signs, hanging out with bangers, with the name of his set graffitied on the page. He listens to gangster rap. He apparently sold weed. He was a burglar who was caught with burglary tools and jewelry in his pocket. He graffitied up his own school. He was suspended from school THREE times. He punched out a kid for “snitching.” He punched out a bus driver five days before. And he started a fistfight with Zimmerman in typical thug style.

          Basically on his way to becoming yet another TYPICAL BLACK THUG.

    • Steve

      170 pound isn’t skinny for the record lol. I’m close to that. that’s 12 stone 2. That’s a super middleweight boxer, not far off a light heavy.

      I know a Peruvian American and he doesn’t and has never classed himself as white. He’s probably got a large amount of Caucasian dna though, like you said. Latin America is mixed. Lots of mixed race people, white, black and Amerindian.

    • etype

      dubz my friend, your arguments are laughable. Burglars also use screwdivers and prybars; also used by REAL ALPHA MEN!!! Hoodies are worn by burglars to obstruct identification, despite being also worn by monks, of whom it is debatable if they are REAL ALPHA MEN!!! (despite wearing hoodies)
      Your ad hominums against Zimmerman claiming he’s a woman beating pussy, are as nonsensical as your afro-centric Egypt arguments. You seem to think this is a popularity contest, it is not a popularity contest – grow up.

      1) Zimmerman did not disobey authorities, he ignored their advise.
      2&3) Zimmerman is allowed to carry a firearm for personal protection.
      4) Zimmerman was totally in his rights observing any strange person in his neighbourhood.

      It’s ironic you repeatedly call Zimmerman a bitch, when it is you acting like the bitch, making your hissy little digs, trying to stir the pot. Is this the way a REAL ALPHA MAN acts? No, it is how meopausal prom queen acts.
      Grow a pair will ya?

    • Zimmerman weighs 200 pound and Trayvon the thug weighs 170 pounds. Not much difference. It doesn’t matter anyway, as Zimmerman was getting his ass beat pretty bad. Zimmerman did the right thing! Good job Zimmerman!

      • etype

        Seriously Robert, I’ve seen no evidence Zimmerman is a psycho… but there is a distinct possibility he is stupid, considering the mess he is in. But then again, he may be over-vigilant in protecting his neighborhood… for which he should be applauded. I ‘d hope dubz and tulio would protect their neighbourhood also. A guiding principle could be don’t attack people following you around in strange neighborhoods! It’s really dangerous.
        And if you attack and pummel some stranger following you around in a strange neighborhood…don’t be too f’king surprised you end up a plank… and your mom trademarks your name!

        • I go for walks late at night. It’s a pretty major street, but there are residences up and down it. I even carry a weapon sometimes (a knife!). I certainly would not want anybody following me around when I was going for my nightly walks! It would scare the living crap out of me. OTOH, Zimmerman just looks like Joe Ordinary, and he was mostly following him in his car. If someone was following me, I would yell at them and ask them what they wanted. I really don’t want to deal with anyone when I am out for my walks at night. Don’t want to talk to anyone. I see people sometimes, but I don’t feel like saying anything to them. I just look at them and move along. Anyone looking at me might think I am going for a walk because I’m walking really fast and looking straight ahead.

          It’s super provocative to follow pedestrians who are walking around at night. It’s scary for the pedestrian! Around here we do have a few muggings and attempted holdups at night, so there is something to worry about.

        • etype

          According to his Dad in the Miami Herald

          he just walked the same direction on a path.

        • tulio

          “I ‘d hope dubz and tulio would protect their neighbourhood also. ”

          If someone dangerous is walking around my neighborhood. That’s what 911 is for. Being a vigilante is a nice way to get yourself in your trouble.

        • etype

          Totally agree.

        • This guy fucked up by his vigilante game. He caused this whole tragedy. This is why cops hate vigilantism. This is what it leads to. I’ve done some vigilante stuff myself. Once I took a baseball bat, went over to a neighbor’s house, and bashed a hole in his door! But he had just caused $800 damage to my car. The cops said I was a vigilante, and they didn’t dig it. They were actually going to arrest me, but a cop friend intervened.

      • tulio

        If he was getting beat up so bad, why did the latest video released(in my link above) show no visible evidence of trauma to his face or even any evidence of blood?

        Robert you are so taken on hating Martin that you are willing to throw out anything to justify it. If Zimmerman claimed that Martin started foaming at the mouth, barking and biting him you’d probably believe it at this point.

      • Zimmerman weighs 250 and is a 28 year-old man and was armed… But hey…the truth is slowly coming out by witnesses and other evidence that reveals that Zimmerman is a liar, a murderer, a criminal, and a fool.

  25. etype

    we could throw blood at them. Are you psychokinetic?

  26. Steve

    @ Robert

    do you mean the nigger down comment? who cares if a black guy gets killed? is that telling it how it is?

    • etype

      That is how it is. Trayvon attacked an armed person who was protecting his neighbourhood… and was killed. It’s a terrible thing, but um….duh.

      • baloocartoons

        The PC left always considers it a tragedy when a thug is killed or harmed in any way by a regular decent person defending himself or others, while sensible people consider it the proper outcome.

        • etype

          these precious, totally unique, individual snowflakes think the world is some type of pre-school identity exploration period, where they get to explore transgressing norms, such as attacking people monitoring their own neighbourhoods, and finding their true inner selves.
          Their big problem is that Zimmerman didn’t deliver Martin a pint of warm milk and a plate of cookies…maybe give him a massage and teach him a sacred mantra before sending him off into the cruel night.

        • This is my position exactly. This is what the antiracist movement has come down to. Defense of Black thugs! Bring back Rosa Parks and the Little Rock Six! I’m disgusted and I want no part of this shit anymore, and I consider myself part of the antiracist movement (as one of the components of Liberal Race Realism is antiracism).

        • LOL, that’s about it etype.

      • dubz

        I guess it takes a coward to know a coward…

      • avoid getting banned

        no the point is you’re saying who cares if a black guy gets killed, not who cares if Trayvon gets killed. ‘nigger down. who cares?’ Unless by nigger, you mean it sort of like Chris Rock, as a ghetto black thug, as distinct from a black person. nigga

    • For a lot of people, that IS telling it like it is, right. That’s reality.

      • Pepperoncini

        Robert, I don’t see how/why Martin is a thug. He wasn’t doing anything criminal when Zim approached him.

        His school suspensions isn’t really a big deal, lots of HS kids get into all sort of trouble, doesn’t mean they are thugs/robbers or destined to be one. My friends in HS were mostly middle class/affluent White kids, sort of preppie types. They did and sold weed & shrooms, once or twice nicked things from stores just for the hell of it. Over all though, they were good kids, it was just teenagers rebeling/being wild/doing shit for excitement etc…Theres also a stigma attached to being a goody 2 shoe, cute chicks like the bad boys.

  27. dubz

    Zimmerman a coward, who beat on women, and who tried to accost a Black teenager half his size.

    If Zimmerman had a busted or broke nose, he would’ve been in severe pain, needing immediate hospitalization and his nose would have bled profusely with a significant amount of blood evident on his shirt or jacket…the police station video nor the eyewitness account attested to any blood being on Zimmerman’s shirt. The EMT’s would have at least bandaged his head if just with some tape and gauze, patching up any open wounds on his neck or head (also head wounds especially, have a tendency to bleed profusely…yet no sign of blood on clothing)

    Grass stains on his pants already proves there is a blatant contradiction in Zimmerman’s account as reported by his father, because he swore that a scuffle took place on the sidewalk, he was knocked back, and his head was being bashed against the concrete right before he shot Trayvon Martin and an eyewitness says they definitely were on the grass when the gun was fired with Zimmerman being on top of Trayvon.

    • Gay State Girl

      It’s unclear if the story is authentic or not. People always come forth during such scandals in the hope of scoring talk shows, book deals etc.

    • Pepperoncini

      I have seen people claim that not all broken noses bleed profusely. I don’t know how accurate this claim. My personal expereince with broken nose is lots of blood, such that t-shirt was very visibly soaked.

      I am wondering how Zim’s t-shit/shirt had no visible signs of blood. He might have cleaned up well after paramedics treated him on the scene but if it really was as serious a physical encounter as Zim portrays, the injuries aren’t going to go away that fast.

  28. There doesn’t seem to have been a valid reason for Zimmerman to chase the boy in the first place.

    And this is what we must remember. There isn’t an angel walking this planet. We have all done something wrong at one time or another, should there be open killing season on one of us just because???

  29. Hey guys 🙂

    What is up with my email addy.

  30. Steve

    Where I come from, you’re not allowed to blow somebody’s head off, even if they are beating you up. Its a no no. You get sent to jail for it. But I guess Florida isn’t where I come from.

  31. Howard

    We will never know the full details of the case, only Zimmerman’s account.

    Place yourself in Martin’s position. You are being chased in YOUR own neighborhood by someone in a car. They jump out of the car and run toward you. They are in plain clothes and it is at night. Do you assume that they are the lawful authority, or someone out to harm you? Do you hide behind a corner and blindside them? Or do you wait for them to catch you and explain the purpose of the pursuit?

    What did Zimmerman say? No one knows, but Zimmerman. What does Zimmerman say now? Anything he has to!

    I have a concealed handgun permit. I don’t use it to accost strangers at night. I am trained to kill. Surprisingly, it only took two days of training. I would not use it to bolster my courage and place myself and others in dangerous situations. When events spiral out of control, I am not trained to respond with non-lethal force. I avoid trouble.

    Zimmerman put Martin and himself in a deadly situation. He will pay the price. Even if he is acquitted, the legal defense will bankrupt him.

    • Gay State Girl

      Martin was not from Sanford (approximately 50 miles from Orlando) but Miami Dade county. He was currently serving suspension from school and chose to to travel to North.

    • Hacienda

      “Zimmerman put Martin and himself in a deadly situation. He will pay the price.”

      The Bhagavad Gita: It’s the man that counts. Not the words.

      Were you always a coward, Howard?

      • Howard

        Again, with the accusations! This time, you don’t even bother to attempt a segue. If anyone can make sense of Hacienda’s flight-of-ideas post, please enlighten me.

        Did you just get the Cliff Notes for the Bhagavad Gita? This is the second time you mentioned it.

        My courage comes from my convictions, not the barrel of a gun or a bottle. The concealed handgun is a last resort tool. If a private citizen pulls a handgun, it should not be to threaten or persuade. It should be to kill. I do not regard the reluctance to kill another human being as cowardice. I do not regard hunting an unarmed teenager as heroic.

  32. Andrew

    Zimmerman was a 5′ lardball. The perp was 6′-3″. The un-trained negro w/ touch of the whitewashbrush is stronger lb for lb than the equivalent spic-honkey zebra…. Sounds like the same BS as posting his 12 year old photo, ya know claiming he weighed 150 lbs.

    Look he was wrestling for his gun… ALL COPS GUN DOWN A PERP WHO IS WRESTLING FOR HIS GUN.

    Since the perp was the majority aggressor by far, Zimmerman with his subconscious “I got a gun” (Samuel Colt made all men equal) didn’t know if the perp was going to gun him & then be bad in the hood “I gots me a 9mm” or fence it for crack….
    Or just try to disarm lardball Zimmerman “Yo Honkey ain’t gonna gun me down fo Trashin’ Yo Ass”

    • Howard

      You have no idea whether he was wrestling for the gun. You only know what Zimmerman said after the shooting.

    • Howard

      BTW Kojak,
      There was no “perp” . There was a wannabe cop and a kid walking home in the dark from the store.

      • etype

        And the kid, probably under the influence of a mentality that said; ‘you can’t hurt me, you’re a wannabe cop, lardass, white, etc. who has no right to defend his property or stand his ground, can’t touch this…. I’m the alpha/victim and always right, while you’re always the badguy… I’m strong and tough gansta, I’m going to teach you a lesson…. alpha/victims always win!”
        But guess what? Reality rears it’s head and Zimmerman shoots the kid who thinks he’s a favorite, and kills him in legal self defense.
        Now the peanut gallery is crying ‘hey we didn’t sign up for this type of reality show!’ (too real)… and want the guy protecting his property punished for not following the secret rules… (that people are not allowed to protect property or anything other than bending over backwards towards their fucked way of thinking and living life)
        But guess what? People are sick of your excuses and bitching and destroying shit when you don’t get what you want.
        Your refusal to accept reality is making things worse.
        Eventually a day will come when you push it too far, like Trayvon did. and ugly reality raises it’s head again… learn from this.

  33. Howard

    Again, we know Martin was in his neighborhood being chased by a guy in a car with a gun at night. Everything else is something told to us or to an intermediary by Zimmerman.

    • etype

      You want so badly for this to be about ‘racism’. You’re hoping and praying you get to use your magic ‘racism’ ticket.
      Imagine what you could do if your magic ticket was accepted everywhere? Unlimited credit! Priceless!
      Unfortunately the magic is wearing thin…and the bubble is about to burst.

  34. Howard

    Let’s leave the race issue out of this. Gun carrying man chases teenager through teenager’s neighborhood at night and eventually shoots him to death. Those are the facts. Everything else is supposition and conjecture.
    You need to stop making about anything but the law and the facts.

    • etype

      well, the law is one can – A) protect oneself ‘if attacked.’
      B) one can watch those in his neighborhood and (A) protect oneself ‘if attacked.’
      So what is your problem?

      • An Unmarried Man

        Can we presume Martin thought he was being “attacked?”

        • etype

          I don’t think we can. Preemptive attacks are not an excuse, nor do they shift culpability. Also if one is killed in a preemptive attack, one loses the ability to testify on one’s own behalf. The law doesn’t endorse preemptive attacks, only ‘stand your ground’
          for good reason.

        • An Unmarried Man

          Sorry, I’m horribly confused. WTF is an attack if not “preemptive” by definition?

          I was walking down the street, I saw a black man who didn’t belong here, so I followed him and acted like I was a cop even though I was just a fat pussy. I wanted to “scare” him. But he hurt me, wah!

      • Howard

        The problem is that you cannot set up a situation in which it is likely that you will be attacked and then respond with asymmetric lethal force and use self defense as a legal maneuver. Again, his neighborhood was also Martin’s neighborhood. Once your “neighborhood” becomes large enough to fit something the size of manslaughter into, you frequently can’t recognize your neighbors. The problem is that we still only have one person as an independent source stating that Martin attacked Zimmerman. That person was the shooter.

        What’s your problem?

        • An Unmarried Man

          There was only one attacker, and that was Zimmerman.
          If his “pursuit” evoked a fight or flight reaction, it’s Zimmerman’s problem and no one else’s.

        • etype

          What is your problem is the question. All of you Trayvon freaks distort the issue as if practicing a fantasy courtroom oration between double-bong hits.
          Your description of event Howard, has been inspired by herb clippings and banana peels.
          Zimmerman shot Trayvon in self defense – case closed.

        • Howard

          My understanding is based upon the only facts in the record. Your description is based upon Zimmerman’s un-sworn testimony and his father’s hearsay report of his son’s description. What other evidence do you have? I am sure Ted Bundy said that the girls were attacking him.

          Again, although it may be inconvenient to respond, Zimmerman set up the situation. All the reports about returning to his car and being attacked are his statements.

          Neighborhood watches are to watch and report. You can defend your home. You can expand the claim to defend your next-door neighbor’s home. At some point, you are trying to defend your neighbor’s home against himself….as it was in this case.

          You probably thought they should have shot Professor Henry Gate, Jr. for breaking into his own house. He was cursing the officers and brandishing a screwdriver.

          Zimmerman was a trigger-happy wannabe cop with no non-lethal response. He did not understand his mission. He did not understand his limitations He placed himself and Martin in harm’s way. He was Barney Fife without a badge.

          Etype, hopefully, Andy will not leave you with the cartridge.

        • etype

          Sorry, your understanding is based on a need to not deal with reality – cuz it’s so unfair…wah!
          First; Zimmerman gave sworn testimony of the facts, which were collaborated by other testimony, and leaked.
          Everything else you had to say is ad hominum , exaggerated conjecture and presumption. Presumptions like defining the role of Neighbourhood Watch…. when there are no national standards for Neighbourhood Watch, only advisories on local law and common sense. Presuming people who disagree with you have ‘this’ to say about some other case (Gates).
          Your absolute refusal to lay any blame at Trayvon’s feet – which is the most telling point to the fact you are unhinged.
          And going on about a character from a tv show…alpha males and whatever…as if it matters what you think of people who disagree with you – people who argue for sanity btw.

          Besides, Andy left me the cartridges so I can get up a few fine rodents for Aunt Bea’s squirrel n’ yam pie.

        • Howard

          Ah yes! The sworn testimony….corroborated by his father and his friend You used the word “collaborated”. Are you implying that the testimony was manufactured….or do you not understand the word?

          It must be true then. That’s how we know that OJ was innocent. He swore that he was not there and therefore we believed him.

          The reason I brought up Gates is that the lawful authorities had the skills and force not to kill Gates for his indiscretion. Zimmerman did not have the reserve force to use a non-lethal alternative.

          If Martin did attack Zimmerman, he is not without fault, but Zimmerman created the situation.

          BTW, let Aunt Bea go after the rats. You wouldn’t want the rodents to take away your gun and bitch slap you.

  35. Howard

    You have the right to protect your home. You have the right to stand your ground. You do not have the right to chase down a teenager in his own neighborhood because you have a gun.

    You are like my brother-in-law; a soft-bellied, gun-toting “manly” Asian. He is enamored by the military and police, but did not serve in the military. He carries his “concealed weapon” in a holster in plain sight. You both are “toy soldiers”; wannabe cops.

    If you want to protect and serve, sign up! I did!

    Until then, cradle your pistol like a security blanket and pretend like you are a man. If you make the mistake of acting on that delusion, you will also wind up paying the price for not having a non-lethal alternative.

    The concealed handgun is like the ballistic recovery parachute in modern small aircraft. It is used only to save the lives of your passengers. The aircraft is destroyed. If you use a handgun to kill another human being except as a last resort, your life will be destroyed.

    It’s food for thought while you sit bitching in your armchair.

    • Hacienda

      “You do not have the right to chase down a teenager in his own neighborhood because you have a gun.”

      You don’t know that. He saw what appeared to be suspicious activity. Zimmerman’s word against Trayvon’s family’s word. Who to believe?

      What’s known is that Sanford is a crime-ridden area where public policing is inadequate. This makes Sanford pretty much identical to about half a million other such neighborhoods in the US. So the options are fight, flight, or you lay down and take it like a whore. Zimmerman chose NOT to be a whore and bless his dirty spic soul- he chose NOT to flight. We’re not all gonna be doctors, lawyers, pimps, high-priced prostitutes, discount retailers, etc. Some people take chances, step into the void that needs stepping into. For the good of the COMMUNITY. Zimmerman’s a throwback. I can see why whities want to throw him under the bus, but why would any self-respecting man (black, Mexican, yellow, even white), want to?

      • An Unmarried Man

        Hace, minority romanticization is so unlike you. Zimmerman don’t mean shit around there. The people who are too poor or intellectually inept to move out deserve a dime-store vigilante?

        • Hacienda

          “minority romanticization”

          Not that. I believe people are what they are. Zimmerman is a born vigilante. A ninja. A scab. A hole-plugger. Romantic only in the sense that it’s just all part of the grand scheme.

          I do find certain minorities to be romantic under the right circumstances. Like smart blacks at elite schools, Eva Longoria 5 years ago, Norwegian women in Japan, etc. Trayvon getting killed by Zimmerman is not romantic, just silly Florida bullshit.

        • An Unmarried Man

          You are more optimistic than I.

          Few people are “romantic” ideals. Like maybe .00312%, tops.

          Everyone I know is a scavenging, lazy ass, stupid idiot. I think I knew Zimmerman…he worked at the local DIY car wash. He dried my windows and made sure I wasn’t packing.

        • Hacienda

          “I think I knew Zimmerman…he worked at the local DIY car wash.”

          Yeah, I can maybe see that. I think Zimmerman’s made. He gets a book deal out of this at a minimum. No one’s gonna take up a 10k bounty. That’s a joke. And 12 members will never unanimously convict. Highly doubltful he even gets arrested, unless Florida is as bad as Chicago. Which, it ain’t.

        • Howard

          I know many hole-pluggers. They do not volunteer. They have had their turn in the barrel. They are experienced and over-trained. They can handle the situation and anything like it. Zimmerman was an incompetent with a gun; just a silly Florida bullshit troublemaker

        • An Unmarried Man

          Zimmerman (I propose a nickname, “Zimmy”), Zimmy, will not only get a book deal. Book deals are so passe, Hacienda, WTF are you on Salvia again???? Zimmy will get a reality show, he will be the host, it will be like COPS except it will follow the exploits of security guards manning the dangerous outlands of gated communities and Walmarts across this great nation. It will be called “cops” and lower case is key.

  36. dubz

    @ Robert

    You say now, bring back Rosa Park and the [North] Little Rock Six, and I say, lets also not forget the thousands upon thousands more, named and unnamed law-abiding citizens of that same era, who were viewed as being no more worthy of justice than the average thug or were treated worst than animals as they were spat upon daily, harassed, unlawfully detained and arrested, beaten, tortured, disfigured, raped, and murdered for merely being Black and exercising their constitutional rights. Those who could not have lived in that gated community, nor walk down the streets of America peacefully without being accosted if deemed by any white citizen that they didn’t look right, were in the wrong neighborhood, basically, merely “walking while Black.”

    These people weren’t being assaulted by known criminal elements, but by church-going, everyday whites both in public life and law enforcement, who felt they were privileged to have the god-given right to violate another American’s human rights, constitutional rights, and actual physical being at will without reason or remorse.

    Back then, most whites felt any or all violent actions against these innocent Black victims were always justifiable. Any accounts given by the white perpetrators were always believed without question.

    It has taken the Justice department over 50 years to arrest some of those who murdered Black people in that time with the majority of these crimes still unsolved or the criminals still never being properly investigated, charged, or prosecuted.

    There are several accounts of White men shooting innocent Black men for just running down the street and the only defense of the shooter was, and I quote, “the nigger was running, he must have done something”

    I ask…what has changed???

    • Howard

      Well said! Your post has lifted this thread from the separate incident to the historic progress and principle. It is sobering to recognize this incident as one of many miscarriages of justice in a history of racism.

      • Hacienda

        “Well said!”

        We need a new Genghis Kahn. The Great Cleanser. Destroy the surveillance cameras in space, the planetary network of mind and behavior control. The bullshit so deep that a Chinese guy believes history is a movement to morality. Like Hegel did. The same moralizing shit that kills off all people who have any sense that living the isn’t a block- network existence. We need to destroy the rich WASPs, end them. Make an example of them. Then the new Genghis Khan takes out Beijing. Just as the old one did.

        • etype

          not only that…but we do it on enduro motorcycles, snowmobiles jet-skis, small homebuilt light sport planes fitted with machineguns and exploding lawn darts… and we get to wear gun belt bandoliers all day… and be cannibals.
          I’m down with this.

  37. etype

    bullshit… his post is just more alpha-victim dog and pony show. You people think like 9 yr old girls

  38. EternalStudent

    “Hispanic” is not a race. So, Zimmerman is technically white. Futhermore, he has a Jewish surname. So he’s only “Hispanic” in the sense that he speaks Spanish, which is all that word really means.

    • baloocartoons

      He’s clearly part Amerindian, so he can be White only in the sense of non-Black, which is ridiculous.

      • EternalStudent

        How is he “clearly” Amerindian? Frankly, he looks rather Jewish or Middle-Eastern. And it makes sense, given his lastname. He also has a beard, and Native Americans very seldom if ever have facial hair.

        • baloocartoons

          I don’t think you’ve seen all that many Amerindians. And he’s _part_ Amerindian and part White, hence the beard. Anyhow, he’s technically a mestizo, and could easily pass for a Mexican mesitzo. Robert’s the expert on this sort of thing. Maybe he’ll chime in here. There’s a lot of confusion about this to laymen. I once met an American living in France, and he assured me that Mexicans were all descended from Spaniards, and that Indians were all living tribally in the boondocks there.

  39. baloocartoons

    For what it’s worth, Sherlock Holmes and Dr. Watson discuss the Trayvon Martin case here:

  40. EternalStudent

    I see Native Americans on a daily basis (I live in Flagstaff, AZ), and Zimmerman doesn’t look Native at all to me. He looks rather Semitic/Middle Eastern, but I don’t know the guy, so I can’t say with any certainty. Besides, Hispanics can belong to any race anyway. And most Hispanics are not Mestizo, or even have dark skin. There are videos on Youtube entitled “White People Speaking Spanish” which is totally redundant and absurd, considering that the Spanish language was in fact invented by white people.

    In the US, the words Hispanic and Latino have become synonymous with anyone who has dark skin or who “looks Mexican”. Classifying Hispanics as a race unto its own is just as erroneous as saying that “English speakers” is a race. Brazilians are Lusophonic, meaning they speak Portuguese. But is Lusophonic a race? Hardly.

  41. Andrew

    More facts are coming out – the perp was suspended 3 times from school, vandalized school building & lockers, was caught previously with stolen jewelry, had tools suitable for breaking & entering in his possession & discussed with others about physically layin’ into a bus driver a fewearlier on a personal facebook type deal.

    Teens are Adults according to USA law? (emancipation of minors age 14 anyone?) and give full consent such as 15 year old Hispanic Barrio Drug Dealer/Pimp tried as Adult & sent to Adult Prison. Think teens are innocent & not punished & aren’t Adults?

    A 14, 15 or 16 year old Black female sexually active with Adults crack whore gives consent & knows what she is doing just the same as a 13, 14, 15 or 16 year old borderline retarded Black gangbanger who blows away a cop or Adult homie for def Nike sneakers or gang rapes/murders a girl/woman, who all often get tried as Adults & executed as Adults.

    Or put all cops, judges & prison staff in prison for years as depraved harmers of “children” for making “children” take responsibility & claiming they give consent & know what they are doing.

    That puts to death the femnazi lie “That under 18′s can’t give sexual consent”

    • Howard

      Tell me, Columbo, what crime was the “perp” in the process of perpetrating when he was being chased down in his own neighborhood. Hopefully it was more than the juvenille misdemeanors mentioned in your post. It seems like the death penalty would be more appropriate for more serious crimes.

      What I gather from your post is that Blacks and Hispanics mature at a much faster rate than whites. Therefore, we can “emancipate” them and execute them at a younger age. Not racist at all!

      As far as trial of minors as adults, It is not the maturity of the minor that brings about the trial as an adult. It is when the nature of the crime so offends our sensibilities that we want to exact a greater revenge on the child criminal.

      BTW, you might want to look up the word emancipate.

  42. Andrew

    Nearly every more or less Caucasian I grew up with who engaged in the perps criminal activity, was also commiting felonies or quickly graduated to felonies by their late teens.

    The perp was following the old adage “run to the guy with a gun… run away from the guy with a knife”.

    It is 99% certain as the 5′ tall lardball was packing a holstered full size service pistol, that the perp felt it while laying in to ole’ tubby, saw lardball attempting to fumble toward a draw/retrieval to wave/fend him off & hold him at bay for arrest…. so he wrestled him over the gun while trashin’ him. Any cop doesn’t have to know why you are beating him up AND attempting to go for his holstered weapon… disarm him, shoot the cop, or sell it in the hood or keep it for braggin’ rights…. THE COP CAN SHOOT YOU DEAD. Any person in the same situation if he was doin serious trashin would take the russian roulette gamble & wrestle for the gun if he doesn’t like the odds of getting shot in the back.

    This area has a history of recent crime sprees of Black males as usually the perps in a mostly non-black community. The lardball has a more or less stable history… He wasn’t going “Negro Hunting wearing an SS uniform with a pointy white hat shouting the Aryan gods told me to exterminate the Black race”.

    UNLIKE THE DC SHOOTER & his TEENAGE SIDEKICK… oops they were Black too.

  43. Howard

    Your argument and thought processes are almost incoherent.

    Why don’t you just say it clearly. ” Because he was black, he was going to go bad anyway. Just go ahead and shoot him now. I am a white racist!”

    I had to paraphrase it, but don’t you feel better now?

  44. Andrew

    Then it began to emerge that the real story was more ambiguous. Zimmerman turned out to be a mestizo (which is apparently an ethnicity too shameful for the press to mention). The tale slowly morphed into a dismal cross between The Bonfire of the Vanities and Paul Blart: Mall Cop.

    Trayvon had tried to fit the stereotype of young black males aspiring to the thug life, picking a Twitter handle based on a rap song featuring convicted killer C-Murder. Just as Zimmerman had worried, Trayvon (standing in the rain eyeing into the bungalows of the community)likely had dabbled in burglary: Martin was nabbed at his high school last fall with a backpack containing women’s jewelry and a screwdriver.

    The win-win solution against stereotyping is for blacks to stop living down to their profiles.

    So what can grownups do to discourage black youths from acting like knuckleheads?

  45. Andrew

    So poisonous is Nation of Islam & Black community & rap thug culture hate & love-hate toward the Jews, maybe Trayvon was knowingly commiting a racial hate crime against the Jew zebra Zimmerman for sucking the blood outta my peoples and Trayvon should be the one charged with a Federal hate crime.

    • Gulf Arab

      Andrew, what do you make of this alleged ”Islamophobic hate crime” case of Shaima Alawadi? Cops told media not to jump to conclusions but they did and got the entire nation crying “hate crime” and inspired a 1 Million Hijabi March. And now? A suspicious text on the daughter’s cell phone alludes to a some sort of coverup.

      Hate crime, my kufr ass.

  46. Michael Porter

    What’s this? Has everybody lost interest now that Zimmerman’s been charged with second-degree murder and it’s beginning to look as though Martin didn’t deserve to be shot after all? It always puzzled me why the mysterious eye-witness who saw poor Zimmerman lying on his back being beaten to death by a boy he’d been stalking through the night, and heard him crying piteously for help USING SOMEBODY ELSE’S VOICE (because voice-profilers have decided it wasn’t his voice that could be heard screaming on the 911 calls), why this witness did nothing to help him fight off his murderous black nigger assailant? What the fuck, though! Who needs convincing evidence when there’s a case to be made for shooting suspicious-looking black kids? In fact who needs any evidence at all? You can always make it up as you go along. I’m not saying Martin didn’t attack Zimmerman, but didn’t ‘Stand your ground’ apply to him too if he thought he was in danger? We’ll never know what was going though his mind because he’s fucking dead !!! So what? Piss on yet another snuffed out nigger, call him a thug, insult his mother, and continue dragging America backwards and downwards into the dark ages…

    Apologies to Howard, Dubz, Tulio and An Unmarried Man, but I think I need to go and take a wash.

  47. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on marijuana. Regards

  48. Set666

    Where is the outrage for Channon Christian and Chris Newsome? Why didn’t their carjacking, rape, multi-day torture, mutilation, and murder at the hands of a gang of blacks get national attention? What about their civil rights?
    What about all the black on black violence and black flashmob attacks on whites? Where is the outrage over that.
    Here’s some reality:
    The rate at which Blacks commit murder is thirteen times
    that of Whites. Rape and assault, ten times. These figures, as given yearly by FBI and DOJ reports, vary somewhat from year to year but accurately represent the trend for the past 4 decades. The annual report from the DOJ reveals that when Whites commit violence, they do it to Blacks 2.4% of the time. Blacks, on the other hand, choose White victims MORE THAN HALF of the time. Although only 12% of the U.S. population, Blacks commit more than half of all rapes and robberies and 60% of all murders in the U.S. Approximately 50% of all Black males will be arrested and charged with a serious felony during their lifetime. A Black person is 56 TIMES more likely to attack a White person than Vice Versa. Black rapists choose White victims over half (54.9%) of the time, 30X as often as Whites choose Blacks.

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