Racial History of Egypt

Prior to 40,000 YBP: An African population resided here.

40,000 YBP: African population wiped out, to be replaced by a mixed Eurasian/African population.

10,000 YBP: Mixed population mostly replaced by “Capsian” population from the Near East (Asia).

8,000 YBP: Neolithic farmers move in from the Near East and add to the Capsians.

Modern Egyptians derive from a movement of Near Easterners into Egypt 8-10,000 YBP. Maternally, Egyptians are mostly Eurasian. The general appearance of Egyptians is “Middle Eastern.”

Approximately 14% of the mummies and painted statues look Black. Egyptian DNA is only ~5% modern Arab, presumably from Arab invasions and migrations. The Afrocentric theory says that the ancient Black Egyptians mixed with large numbers of Arabs, which is why they look like they do now.

The Y-DNA is largely Near Eastern or Eurasian. The E3b Y DNA and M1 MtDNA originated in the Near East (possibly in Arabia) ~20,25,000 YBP and is also thought to be “ancient Caucasoid.”

Upper Egypt is ~30% Black by DNA. But even upper Egyptians are much closer to the Near East than to Africans. Modern Egyptians are ~25% Black by DNA, but studies on ancient Egyptians show them to much less Black, possibly at ~9%. Most of the Egyptian Black DNA seems to have come in via the Arab conquest and the slave trade.

Ancient Egyptian hair is like modern Egyptian hair, from straight to curly with a small minority having kinky hair. Ancient Egyptians look just like modern Egyptian on the following variables: hair, teeth and skulls.

The paintings do not show people with dark skin. Men are shown with red ocher and women are painted yellow. The lifelike portrait statues don’t have black skin either. The “black land” refers to the color of the soil. The desert was called the red land.

A Eurocentric argument is that the ancient Egyptians were Whites who were replaced by Blacks. Along the same lines, Afrocentrists argue the opposite – that the ancients were Blacks who were then replaced by Whites.

There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever that ancient Egyptians were European Whites or Nordics. We can see this by looking at the crural index (arm length):

American white 82.6% Modern Egyptian 84.9% American Black 85.25%

Ancient Egyptians had the exact same crural index as modern Egyptians, which is nothing like the European index at all. We can also see that modern Egyptians had the same crural index and ancient Egyptians, so there was no change from Black to White over the period.

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Filed under Africa, Anthropology, Antiquity, Art, Blacks, Egypt, Egyptians, Genetics, History, North Africa, North Africans, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional

122 responses to “Racial History of Egypt

  1. nominay

    Robert, how did you find all this out? “Pre-history” info in particular is hard to ascertain.

  2. The problem is that there is a presumed idea that the terms Caucasian, Middle Eastern, Near Eastern, Caspian, Arab, African, Black, White, and even Eurasian have both genetic and scientific validity and are hard coded terms that define monolithic racial types and they don’t!

    And then you say the paintings or pictographs don’t show dark skin! Are you actually serious Robert???

    And this debate concerning some ancient Egyptians being painted reddish-brown, brown, or lighter as compared to other darker-skinned Africans living nearby is a baseless argument that proves nothing relative to so-called “racial” differences…throughout Africa, brown skin people live next to much darker brown skin people all the time, you have unmixed lighter brown Igbo in Nigeria who have resided for centuries next to mostly darker-skinned Yoruba, you have Fulani in West Africa, the Sans people of the Kalahari, some Twa or so-called pygmies are nowhere near as dark as their neighbors, and along with the Sans are genetically some of the oldest people in Africa! You can see this up and down the East African coastline and in the interior, and yet, these people are not different “races” though they may have different ethnic, cultural, or tribal affiliations, divisions, and loyalties.

    Here are your own scholars witnessing and reporting what they knew to be true concerning the ancient Egyptians, as testaments for all time and for all who were to come later:

    – Herodotus states in several passages that the Egyptians were black. Herodotus also states that a Greek oracle was known to be from Egypt because she was “black”, that the natives of the Nile region are “black with heat”, and that Egyptians were “black skinned with woolly hair”.

    – Lucian observes an Egyptian boy and notices that he is not merely black, but has thick lips.

    – Diodorus Siculus mentioned that the Ethiopians considered the Egyptians a colony.

    – Appollodorus, a Greek, calls Egypt the country of the black footed ones.

    – Aeschylus, a Greek poet, wrote that Egyptian seamen had “black limbs.”

    – Strabo mentions that the Ethiopians and Colchians are of the same race.

    – Gaston Maspero states that “by the almost unanimous testimony of ancient [Greek] historians, they [Ancient Egyptians] belonged to the African race, which settled in Ethiopia.”

    And we know that the Greeks were already a dark or Olive complexioned people similar to other Mediterraneans or Southern Europeans…so the terms dark, black, or Ethiopian (sun-burnt faces) meant exactly that!

    • If the words Black and Caucasian have no meaning whatsoever, where the Hell do you get off insisting that the ancient Egyptians were Black people, since as you just said there’s no such thing as Black people?

      • Robert as I have tried to make clear repeatedly, Black, White, Yellow, Caucasian, Mongoloid, or Negroid have absolutely no scientific meaning, but it is obvious that in the context of this discussion they are all being used descriptively and the biggest mistake by others here is that these terms are being referenced to verify arguments that reference the science of genetics.

        Geneticist have proven, you can’t have it both ways.

        Africans, Asians, and Europeans (again using huge generalizations) all have a plethora of genetic markers that may differ and are the same, with that which differs being the least of what’s been discoverable, but there is no unique or separate African, European, or Asian genome, for we are all of one race, Homo Sapiens, i.e., human beings. But if you believe in the Out of Africa theoretical construct, which has yet to be definitively disputed, then Africans who happened to be “Black” or “dark Brown” of a particular phenotype were the original prototypical humans and all other people derived from that source. This is actually elementary…

        What I presented refutes the statements that the ancient Egyptians were never considered “Black”, which by all accounts of those who witnessed them, is an untrue statement…plain and simple!

        • Nu GeVe Neteru

          WOW. Can I quote you? Very intelligent response.

        • ray

          I really do not understand how people get there facts totally wrong and then say they hold the facts and are right? So genetics have proven that ancient Egyptians and modern Egyptians are in and the same people. Then the writings show that no Egyptians seen themselves as different from sub saharan Africans and so did the sub saharan Africans as well as all other neighbors. There own artwork disputes them being black as well. The entire thing is nonsense. They aren’t white. Theu aren’t black. They are Egyptians. The technology which was shown in Egypt came from out of africa and was brought in to africa. This is also.obvious. every advanced idea or action they had was already being done in the north and none were doing any of it in the south.

      • Brian Taylor

        Robert, if you’re anyone of any prominent status then I encourage you to spear-head a world-wide discussion on this subject where all of the world’s scholars will come together to debate this very topic, once and for all!

    • None of those quotes mean anything at all. Egyptian paintings show the Libyan Berbers as looking like White Europeans, the Nubians looking like stereotypical Black people, the Iraqi Assyrians looking like yellow Asiatics and the ancient Egyptians as a golden skilled people darker than the Libyans or Assyrians but lighter than the Nubians. The paintings make it crystal clear that the Egyptians saw themselves as 100% different from the much Blacker Nubians.

      • And finally, here is the problem that has plagued this forum, most “whites”, and all of your suppositions, and I quote: “…Nubians looking like stereotypical Black people…”

        “…stereotypical Black people????” You got to be kidding!

        There is no one shade of Black people or Africans anywhere on the planet earth and especially in Africa! As a matter of fact, the Nubians being portrayed in those pictographs that are deemed to be Nubians, look more like modern-day Nilotic Dinka people than they necessarily favor most modern-day Nubians who actually resemble the ancient Egyptians, though it is language along with ethnicity and genes that make these people a unique people…but I know it may be a surprise to you. But all Africans of any ethnicity do not all look alike.

        • Nu GeVe Neteru


        • Porshia

          I agree. “Black people come in a variety of shades, from blue black to albino. We are the ONLY race that can get 2 of the darkest people and make a “white” child. (Albino, if you will) You can NOT put any 2 white people together to produce a dark skinned child. It’s not possible.

        • Joy Time

          The point is that sub-saharan genes produce a very dark-skinned person. These are the people that ‘black’ Americans are descended from. Any who are lighter or have whiter features are part-white or partly some other race. Sub-Saharan genes make up a very small portion of Ancient Egyptians’ genes. Most of their genes are Arab(Asiatic) or European. This all can be confirmed with genetic testing. The Nubians however had mostly Sub-Saharan genes.

        • Anonymous


        • Anonymous


      • NonKoolAidDrinker

        The Assyrians are shown as looking like Middle eastern Caucasoids not Asiatics (if by Asiatic you mean Mongoloid looking). The Lybians are depicted as being very white skinned but not partivularly European looking. They are often shown having frizzy hair and pronounced prognathism. Clearly the Egyptians weren’t using modern day Western racial categories.

        • Since there was officially no such thing as the Middle East before 1957 and it was created by British euro-centrists a hundred years before, therefore there can be no such thing as a Middle Eastern Caucasoid Race.

        • Caucasoid is a valid grouping based on genes for sure and I believe skulls also. There are a number of groups in the Middle East region who group in with the Caucasoids on genes. I can show you the charts. Those groups would be referred to as Middle Eastern Caucasoids.

      • Holy Frijole

        To Rob:
        None of those quotes mean anything at all.

        And I would suggest those quotes were misused or taken out of context. I would also suggest that Ancient Egypt was (by modern notions..) a multiracial society with darker skinned people in Upper (Southern) Egypt and lighter skinned people as you head towards the Mediterranean which were unified by a common culture centered around the Nile river.

        • Ancient Lighter-skinned Egyptians and Darker-skinned Egyptians and every complex in between, just like what you see throughout Africa today and everywhere African people are in the world. Just like what you see amongst African Americans who by today standards and the terminology being used here in this very forum are considered “Black”, “negroid”, and of Black African descent.

          And as you can see in the examples below, Ancient Egyptians lived and worked side-by-side not segregated based on complexion or so-called racial selectivity within Africa.

        • Dude, what is your point? The ancient Egyptians are the same as the modern Egyptians. Are modern Egyptians Black or not? Is everyone in Africa Black? What’s your evidence that ancient Egyptians were Black? Because they lived in Africa, and everyone in Africa is Black?

          You don’t even acknowledge that a Caucasian race even exists. If it doesn’t exist, how can a Black race exist? If there’s no Black race, there’s no such thing as Black people.

      • DarkLegoMan

        The Egyptian Gods were often depicted as golden skinned, likely the Egyptian ideal. As far as features go, Egyptians depicted themselves as most distant from the big-lipped(obvious deviation) Nubians and grouped well with other Caucasians.

    • Holy Frijole

      Here’s a rebuttal to your quotes. Since I have not read the original texts of any of the authors in the link below.. I do not know how accurate they are. But if one actually reads read Herodotus’ the Histories you would know that the quotes provided above are distorted and/or taken out of context.

      “Egyptians resembled Northern Indians

      There are cases of Greco-Roman authors likening Egyptians’ appearance to that of northern Indians, who generally do not look like black Africans. According to Arrian (Indica 6.9):

      The appearance of the inhabitants is also not very different in India and Ethiopia: the southern Indians are rather more like Ethiopians as they are black to look on, and their hair is black; only they are not so snub-nosed or woolly-haired as the Ethiopians; the northern Indians are most like the Egyptians physically.

      Strabo confirms in Geography 15.1.13, in almost identical wording:

      As for the people of India, those in the south are like the Aethiopians in color, although they are like the rest in respect to countenance and hair (for on account of the humidity of the air their hair does not curl), whereas those in the north are like the Egyptians.
      Arrian and Strabo concur that the Egyptians resembled northern Indians – who are usually straight-haired and occasionally as light-skinned as southern Europeans – rather than the dark Dravidian types of southern India. Furthermore, although Arrian and Strabo differentiate Ethiopians from South Indians in terms of facial form and hair texture, they cite no such differences between the Egyptians and northern Indians.

      The Ethiopians stain the world and depict a race of men steeped in darkness; less sun-burnt are the natives of India; the land of Egypt, flooded by the Nile, darkens bodies more mildly owing to the inundation of its fields: it it a country nearer to us and its moderate climate imparts a medium tone.
      – Manilius, Astronomica 4.724

      Here the term Ethiopians (= Greek “burnt face”, denoting very dark skin) refers to Africans inhabiting latitudes south of Egypt (Snowden, 1989). The term “Ethiopian,” in that it was a broad category encompassing diverse ethnic groups of tropical Africa, was similar to a modern-day “racial” designation and roughly corresponded to what early anthropologists would have called “Negro.” Yet classical writers, as exemplified by Manilius’ quote above, clearly differentiated the Egyptians from “Ethiopians.” Philostratus, for example, noted that a people living near the Nubian border were lighter than Ethiopians, and that Egyptians were lighter still.”

    • Jihad Hamlett

      Hes using modern facts, dna specialist said its too hard to check ancient mummy dna after 600 years the dna dry up and break apart, im mad he used afrocentric tho that just turned me off i dont want to read anything else from this dude

  3. Pepperoncini

    The Y-dna of contemporary Egyptians is/are clades of E1B1B, which is a quintesential North African and Horn Y haplogroup. Arabs from the Penninsula (the real Arabs) are J1c . Arab Muslim invaders did not radically change the demographics of Egypt, i.e. kill off most of the local males.

    • E1B1B is thought to be ancient Caucasoid. Its origins are in Arabia 25-45,000 YBP.

      • AndrewV

        Before anyone gets their knickers in a twist, follow the link:


        Haplogroup E1b1b (E-M215)
        Possible time of origin: approx 22,400 years
        Possible place of origin: Eastern Africa

        “it is one of the major paternal lines of humanity, linking from father-to-son back to a common male-line ancestor. It is a subject of discussion and study in genetics as well as genetic genealogy, archaeology, and historical linguistics.”

      • Pepperoncini

        I’m not soo sure if it (E1B1B) can be assigned to a race that far back. At 25-45,-000 years ago, who knows what the phenotype of the carrier looked like.

        Re. Origin
        I was under the impression that the most recent turn the debate on where E1B1b originated, placed it in North East Africa. In 2011 Dienekes featured a paper by Beniamino Trombetta et al on E1B1 and spread of its branches.

        The paper , and below quote is of the pertinent portion of the paper dealing with the origin of E1b1b.

        “The second basal branch of E1b1, E-M215, has a broad geographic distribution from southern Europe to northern and eastern Africa where it has been proposed to have originated [8]. “

        • Thing is, there are groups that have 10-25% of their genes in this E1B1 or M215 line or the other various lines. Ashkenazi Jews are 10% E1B1. They look 10% Black to you? Kosovar Albanians are 25% E1B1. They look 25% Black to you? See what I mean? It must be a Caucasoid line.

        • Jihad Hamlett

          Didnt all those gene lines start in east africa? And theres parts all over africa that share the same genes some mixed with others. Im trying to understand this better forgive me people

        • Dave Mowers

          Out of Africa hypothesis debunked by modern DNA evidence;


          “Indeed, the presence of a significant excess of Neanderthal-derived alleles in Eurasian populations as compared to Africans has been interpreted as resulting from an admixture episode between the ancestors of Eurasians and Neanderthals somewhere in the Middle East”

          Which is exactly what Paul Pezron says in his “Antiquities of Nations; Origins of Celtae” explaining that the most ancient works describing origins of peoples from Greece claim that the Celtic, read Caucasian, people came from Central Asia and were called the Sacae.

          DNA from Sima Cave in Spain shows Caucasian, Denisovan and Neanderthal admixture 400,000 years ago proving Caucasians were in Europe 360,000 years before originally thought;


          So we have the mythology, the written histories and the DNA proof that your hypotheses about Africa-origins of the human race are bunk. They found a 200,000 year old homo sapien skeleton in south Asia as well. How much more evidence do we need to say conclusively that the old theories are no longer valid?

        • Elwell

          The new topology here reported has important implications as to the origins of the haplogroup E1b1. Using the principle of the phylogeographic parsimony, the resolution of the E1b1b trifurcation in favor of a common ancestor of E-M2 and E-M329 strongly supports the hypothesis that haplogroup E1b1 originated in eastern Africa, as previously suggested [10], and that chromosomes E-M2, so frequently observed in sub-Saharan Africa, trace their descent to a common ancestor present in eastern Africa.

    • AndrewV

      Funnily enough, I bookmarked this interesting entry last year, where the invaders apparently did make a “radical” adjustment to the demographics
      (presumably by killing the men and “mating” with their women, and I will leave it to you to envision whatever you want as to how this mating was accomplished).

      Y-chromosome, mtDNA, and autosomal DNA from Treilles (5,000 years ago, Neolithic France)

  4. AndrewV

    @Robert Lindsay March 26, 2012 at 11:10 PM

    “Yeah, but most people say that’s ancient Caucasoid. That’s the ~50% component of the Horners that a lot of people call “Caucasoid.”

    In these politically correct times, if I say E1b1b no one is going to step up and lecture me about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    I find it annoying and I would rather not deal with it.

  5. Holy Frijole

    To Dubz:
    – Herodotus states in several passages that the Egyptians were black.

    that the natives of the Nile region are “black with heat”,

    That passage is a speculation of the origins of the Nile. He refers to the Nile passing through several countries, Libya, Eqypt, and Ethiopia (basically the Sudan…) and not just Eqypt.

    From book Two of the Histories:
    The third of the ways is much the most specious, but nevertheless it is the most mistaken of all: for indeed this way has no more truth in it than the rest, alleging as it does that the Nile flows from melting snow; whereas it flows out of Libya through the midst of the Ethiopians, and so comes out into Egypt. How then should it flow from snow, when it flows from the hottest parts to those which are cooler? And indeed most of the facts are such as to convince a man (one at least who is capable of reasoning about such matters), that it is not at all likely that it flows from snow. The first and greatest evidence is afforded by the winds, which blow hot from these regions; the second is that the land is rainless always and without frost, whereas after snow has fallen rain must necessarily come within five days, so that if it snowed in those parts rain would fall there; the third evidence is afforded by the people dwelling there, who are of a black colour by reason of the burning heat. Moreover kites and swallows remain there through the year and do not leave the land; and cranes flying from the cold weather which comes on in the region of Scythia come regularly to these parts for wintering: if then it snowed ever so little in that land through which the Nile flows and in which it has its rise, none of these things would take place, as necessity compels us to admit. 23. As for him who talked about the Ocean, he carried his tale into the region of the unknown, and so he need not be refuted; since I for my part know of no river Ocean existing, but I think that Homer or one of the poets who were before him invented the name and introduced it into his verse.

    It looks like he was referring to the “Ethiopians” (Sudanese) here. By the Ethiopian is from the Greek “aithiops” (= “burnt appearance”), from “aitho” (I burn) and “opsis” (aspect, appearance), To Herodotus Athiopians were the people South of what is now known as Egypt.

    and that Egyptians were “black skinned with woolly hair”.

    No.. that particular passage was about the Colchians and specifically he said they had dark skin and (sometimes translated as woolly) curly hair and he thought they had migrated from Egypt to Colchia.

    Ancient Colchia was located in what is basically now Western Georgia (the country..) on the Black sea that was once part of the USSR.


    “104. For the people of Colchis are evidently Egyptian, and this I perceived for myself before I heard it from others. So when I had come to consider the matter I asked them both; and the Colchians had remembrance of the Egyptians more than the Egyptians of the Colchians; but the Egyptians said they believed that the Colchians were a portion of the army of Sesostris. That this was so I conjectured myself not only because they are dark-skinned and have curly hair (this of itself amounts to nothing, for there are other races which are so), but also still more because the Colchians, Egyptians, and Ethiopians alone of all the races of men have practised circumcision from the first. The Phenicians and the Syrians who dwell in Palestine confess themselves that they have learnt it from the Egyptians, and the Syrians about the river Thermodon and the river Parthenios, and the Macronians, who are their neighbours, say that they have learnt it lately from the Colchians. These are the only races of men who practise circumcision, and these evidently practise it in the same manner as the Egyptians. Of the Egyptians themselves however and the Ethiopians, I am not able to say which learnt from the other, for undoubtedly it is a most ancient custom; but that the other nations learnt it by intercourse with the Egyptians, this among others is to me a strong proof, namely that those of the Phenicians who have intercourse with Hellas cease to follow the example of the Egyptians in this matter, and do not circumcise their children. 105. Now let me tell another thing about the Colchians to show how they resemble the Egyptians:–they alone work flax in the same fashion as the Egyptians, and the two nations are like one another in their whole manner of living and also in their language: now the linen of Colchis is called by the Hellenes Sardonic, whereas that from Egypt is called Egyptian.”

    • What I find interesting in your interpretation of these passages, is that if the Greeks, a people who were already partly “curly-haired and somewhat dark skinned”, having features as seen throughout Southern Europe and the Mediterranean, viewed the Ancient Egyptians as being Caucasians as themselves, they would have said so and compared them with themselves as being of the same complexion and hair texture. The Ancient Egyptians phenotypic look would have not been such a uniquely different observation.

      Let’s look at what you submitted here:

      “…but also still more because the Colchians, Egyptians, and Ethiopians alone of all the races of men have practised circumcision from the first.”

      “These are the only races of men who practise circumcision, and these evidently practise it in the same manner as the Egyptians. Of the Egyptians themselves however and the Ethiopians, I am not able to say which learnt from the other, for undoubtedly it is a most ancient custom; but that the other nations learnt it by intercourse with the Egyptians,…”

      And guess who else practiced circumcision in that region of the world and continues to this very day, almost 99% of all Black African people! Circumcision is an indigenous African ritualistic practice that goes back thousand upon thousands of years.

      And it is believed that “Ethiopia” (sun-burnt faces) was a term used to represent any “Black African” nation known to these Greek scholars since we know that “Ethiopia” did not represent a unique nationality until recent times.

      The Greek’s knowledge of the African continental landmass and the various people who resided there was very limited, but one thing for sure, over and over again the Greeks viewed the Ethiopians and Egyptians as being the same in every way.

      If you really were able to move beyond the cut-in-stone euro-centric view of world history, you would see that Black people originally from Africa and those who lived in Asia as attested to by the Greek scholars dominated most of the Southern globe, which the Greeks divided into two regions, Eastern Ethiopia and Western Ethiopia, and those designated regions were defined farther north than what most euro-centrist like to admit or are comfortable with, as we see with the Colchians.

      You can’t fit the ancient world into the racist and backwards worldview of euro-centric Britains and Germans of the 19th and 20th century.

    • Dave Mowers

      What I find amazing is that no one bothers to point out that no distinction was made by ancient authors between a mythological tale and a factually-derived historical narrative. Case in point, all peoples descend from Gods to start with in their “histories.” You can define history liberally or exacting.

      There are “black people” in India and the name “Egypt” contains within in it, a Sanskrit root word. Furthermore in Herodotus, he states that the men who follow the Ethiopian Memnon are;

      “exempt from the ills of humanity and their tables are always loaded with banquets which no labor of theirs has provided.”

      The word for “Ethiopian” is spelled originally, “Aithiopian” or “Aethiopian” contains a root word itself “Aither” or “Aether” and it does not mean “burn or burning or black” it means the “air” so that Ethiopians are in the mythological sense, Sky people or Sky gods and not real people living in a country or region named after the mythology.

      You are historicizing from mythology.

      No facts can be ascertained about the people who lived in Egypt this way. Now, actual Egyptians did write histories in hieroglyph about themselves and called themselves “red peoples.” They did paint themselves with red paint making themselves olive-skinned or sunburnt and perhaps the association of words like Ethiopians became as such do to their actual appearance as Caucasoid’s with red skin from sun exposure.

      • Pepperoncini

        No Sanskrit root word in Egypt . Since you claim otherwise, show us proof in the manner of peer reviewed publications such as the ” Journal of Indo-European Studies”

        Their fresco in the tomb of Seti shows them to be reddish brown and no mention of it not being their natural color.

        • Dave Mowers

          Gopt Google it. Also the mythologies of the Egyptians, Assyrians, Chaldees and Hindus are clear; Nimrod is Sargon who beget Menes who founded Egypt and Egypt is Agade. Anyone who reads it will see it.

  6. Holy Frijole


    And it is believed that “Ethiopia” (sun-burnt faces) was a term used to represent any “Black African” nation known to these Greek scholars since we know that “Ethiopia” did not represent a unique nationality until recent times.

    No.. Dubz… Herodotus clearly distinguishes between what he calls Libyans, Egyptians, and Ethiopians.

    over and over again the Greeks viewed the Ethiopians and Egyptians as being the same in every way.

    Have you read the texts or are you taking someone else’s interpretations…? Understand at the time the Ancient Greeks were writing Nubia (What is basically now Northern Sudan..) and Egypt had already been effectively merged. culturally. (The Egyptians had conquered Nubia at various times and then the Nubians conquered Egypt in the 25th dynasty… these events predate Herodotus.

    As for Black or Dark.. that is a relative term…. since the same Colchians which Herodotus is talking about as being dark with curly (woolly) hair are described by Hippocrates (an ancient Greek physician…) as being sallow / yellow in color.

    I can find different interpretations of some of the people you quoted if you like.. I though I would respond first to the claims you assigned to Herodotus since I have actually read the text.

    • Good point about dark being a relative term. I met a girl from Sweden, years ago, who commented on all the dark people in L.A. Then she qualified her statement with, “We have dark people in Sweden; there are many Germans living there.”

    • Jihad Hamlett

      Man people going to argue you down by quoting them because they came around during the time nubia ruled egypt. Right before they were conquered by the asiatics or was it after, but the burnt faces ruled africa

    • Jihad Hamlett

      Yes show us what your talking about give dates too if you can please

  7. Holy Frijole

    To Rob:

    Dude, what is your point? The ancient Egyptians are the same as the modern Egyptians. Are modern Egyptians Black or not? Is everyone in Africa Black?

    Were you replying to me or Dudz..? Personally I think ancient Egyptians look pretty close to modern Egyptians which I think you endorse also:

    Such as:


    Although in the far South near Aswan, ancient Egypt’s Southern border for many years, you have a fair number of people that look like:

    • Jihad Hamlett

      Na! I doubt ancient egyptians look like modern egyptians that took years of invasions for that look to pop up, theres nubians who look egyptians so.there arab too?

  8. Holy Frijole

    To Dubz

    And as you can see in the examples below, Ancient Egyptians lived and worked side-by-side not segregated based on complexion or so-called racial selectivity within Africa.

    From what period did those paintings come from..? Given that the Ancient Egyptians generally contrasted their appearance with that of people from ancient Nubia.. I would suggest that they occurred when the two regions were united. Because at other times Nubians were considered the enemies of Egypt.
    Such as:

    • Again like the others here, you are attempting to define sharp genetic or racial differences in Africa solely by way of complexions as seen on frescoes, and no other factors, such as overall phenotypes, geography, linguistics, or cultural congruency or similarities.

      Let’s take color for instance,the Igbo and the San in general, are much lighter than the Dinka, and the Swedes in general are much lighter than the Southern Italians or Greeks, and in both cases, this has nothing to do with extreme racial differences using the arcane racial designators fictionalized by euro-centrist of the early 19th century!

      The Igbo were many times described as a “red skin” people by early historians, yet they were and still are an unmixed West African people who reside in present-day Nigeria.

      There are various Somalians, Ethiopians, and Sudanese who are much much darker than other Somalians, Ethiopians, and Sudanese with every complexion in-between. If one ethnic faction was at war with another ethnic faction within the nations mentioned above, and just so happen they were of different complexions, this conflict would look no different than what was depicted in the Ancient Egyptian war campaign you presented.


      Note: I find the caption under this image quite interesting since all of the enemies of Tut are very dark-skinned: “A painted wood box from Tut’s tomb shows him vanquishing Nubians and Syrians. (Araldo De Luca)”


      An excellent example of this is what is happening in the Sudan in modern times, whereas the Western euro-centric media ignorantly reported the regional conflict there as some sort of racial war of Arabs fighting and oppressing Black Africans to get the ignorant Western public both white and black to buy into this view for other geopolitical objectives. Complexion, religion, and political differences were packaged as definitive racial differences.

      Now I’m sure General Omar Al-Bashir is probably far from being a saint, but one thing for sure, what he has been quoted as saying is true:

      “Talk of Arabs killing Blacks is a lie, the government of Sudan is a government of Blacks, with all different ethnic backgrounds. We’re all Africans. We’re all Black.”

      Now let me be clear, we all know what is happening in the Sudan is atrocious and horrific, but as most of these conflicts are, it’s way more complicated than what is being fed to the simpleminded American public.


      Ethiopia to this very day has every complexion in the world, from groups of people as light as Haile Selassie, to some of the darkest Black people in Africa….regardless, Haile Selassie knew he was an African through and through…

      Euro-centric Europeans and Americans have proven historically that they are obsessed with eugenics, convoluted concepts of neatly packaged racial categories, the breeding of people, and the fantasy of a pure and untainted superior bloodline…African people who were subjected to this madness for centuries are not going to buy into this foolish any longer, neither historically or presently.

  9. Nubia once completely occupied egypt until the Assyrians drove them out and occupied it for themselves.

    • Didn’t Nubia conquer Egypt twice, once early in Egypt’s history and then later in its decline before the Assyrians? Black Pharaohs were put on the throne then and sphinxes were made in honor of them.

  10. Andrew

    END OF

    (one would think at least for the psycopathic feeble minded caucasoid hating “NOI”/”bad” pan-afro neo-marxist racists)

    • Medjay Commander

      But you just displayed a video by a racist and not someone who actually works in the field. OK i’ll raise you one, here is White woman who not only works in the field but Sally-Ann is a Senior Curator in the Department of Antiquities, Fitzwilliam Museum, Cambridge, UK

    • Medjay Commander

      And to boot I will end this debate with the end all to end all DNA results of the Amarna Mummies (Tut and his family) released 1/1/2012 by DNA tribes.
      Genetic Analysis of Amarna Mummies
      Geographical analysis of the Amarna mummies was performed using their autosomal STR profiles based on 8 tested loci.4
      Results are summarized in Table 1 and illustrated in Figure 1. Maps for individual Amarna mummies are included in Figures 2-8 in the Appendix.
      Discussion: Average MLI scores in Table 1 indicate the STR profiles of the Amarna mummies would be most frequent in present day populations of several African regions: including the Southern African
      (average MLI 326.94), African Great Lakes (average MLI 323.76), and Tropical West African (average MLI 83.74) regions.
      These regional matches do not necessarily indicate an exclusively African ancestry for the Amarna pharaonic family. However, results indicate these ancient individuals inherited some alleles that
      today are more frequent in populations of Africa than in other parts of the world (such as D18S51=19 and D21S11=34).
      MLI for World Region
      Southern African 359.72
      African Great Lakes 233.49
      Tropical West African 142.84
      Horn of Africa 14.65
      Sahelian 39.14
      Levantine 0.40
      Aegean 0.12
      Arabian 0.12
      Northwest European 0.21
      Mediterranean 0.08
      North African 2.22
      Mesopotamian 0.06

      Southern African 34.48
      African Great Lakes 35.53
      Tropical West African 8.91
      Horn of Africa 0.79
      Sahelian 0.74
      Levantine 1.56
      Aegean 0.35
      Arabian 0.42
      Northwest European 0.28
      Mediterranean 0.23
      North African 0.21
      Mesopotamian 0.41

      Southern African 20.73
      African Great Lakes 20.87
      Tropical West African 6.93
      Horn of Africa 5.17
      Sahelian 5.76
      Levantine 0.66
      Aegean 0.87
      Arabian 0.70
      Northwest European 1.26
      Mediterranean 0.74
      North African 0.75
      Mesopotamian 0.64

      (Amen‐hotep III)
      Southern African 108.53
      African Great Lakes 222.53
      Tropical West African 37.43
      Horn of Africa 12.03
      Sahelian 2.97
      Levantine 10.30
      Aegean 9.06
      Arabian 5.58
      Northwest European 3.99
      Mediterranean 4.54
      North African 3.39
      Mesopotamian 6.24

      Southern African 174.90
      African Great Lakes 381.30
      Tropical West African 53.03
      Horn of Africa 4.54
      Sahelian 4.40
      Levantine 6.07
      Aegean 7.05
      Arabian 2.83
      Northwest European 10.41
      Mediterranean 5.81
      North African 3.25
      Mesopotamian 2.69

      Southern African 71.17
      African Great Lakes 44.58
      Tropical West African 22.99
      Horn of Africa 22.00
      Sahelian 16.85
      Levantine 8.40
      Aegean 20.16
      Arabian 21.41
      Northwest European 15.01
      Mediterranean 16.80
      North African 12.63
      Mesopotamian 11.54

      Southern African 1,519.03
      African Great Lakes 1,328.01
      Tropical West African 314.00
      Horn of Africa 44.35
      Sahelian 30.41
      Levantine 21.08
      Aegean 9.85
      Arabian 10.91
      Northwest European 5.33
      Mediterranean 6.04
      North African 6.55
      Mesopotamian 5.27

      ( For a grand average of:)
      Southern African 326.94
      African Great Lakes 323.76
      Tropical West African 83.74
      Horn of Africa 14.79
      Sahelian 14.33
      Levantine 6.92
      Aegean 6.78
      Arabian 6.00
      Northwest European 5.21
      Mediterranean 4.89
      North African 4.14
      Mesopotamian 3.84

      Table 1: Top MLI (Match Likelihood Index) scores for Amarna mummies based on the world regions identified by
      DNA Tribes® STR analysis. Each MLI score identifies the likelihood of occurrence of an STR profile in that region
      versus the likelihood of occurrence in the world as a whole.

      The end all to this story is the Egyptians were a Black African people with not only Horn of Africa but south and West African Ancestor.

    • Jihad Hamlett

      Omg!!! Im tired of people showing this its warfare propaganda bloods and crips are the same race different ethnic groups different colors they were different clothing they dislike each other they have different views, they want to wipe each other out so they slander there names deface there tags, there doing the same thing egyptians and nubians did, but! Like blood and crips many ran together and got along even helped each other out, bloods probably didnt like other crip sets so they ganged up with a crip set just to knock that set off it doesnt mean they hate all crips. You get my drift worst example i can use but im using my enviorment lol

  11. Andrew

    The above video shows a series of Short Tandem Repeats (STRs), repeated DNA sequences whose characteristics are used to identify humans.
    Using a haplogroup preditictor by physicist and professor Whit Athey, the resulting haplogroup, which gives insight into the ancestral background of an individual going back thousands of years, came back with a 99.6% match with the R1b haplogroup.

    Recently-leaked DNA test results prove ancient Egyptian royal Pharaoh Tutankhamen, aka King Tut, is 99.6% Western European.
    The results were mistakenly leaked in the American cable television show Royal Blood: King Tut Unwrapped. The tests were conducted to find out if a newly-discovered mummy was the boy king’s father.
    The Secretary General of the Egyptian Supreme Council of Antiquities, Zahi Hawass, had previously stated that he would never reveal the DNA results of King Tut, whose racial make-up has been a source of dispute for many.

  12. Andrew

    Please note, the following will depend on further confirmation that the hg is actually R1b, the history chanell has been known to get things wrong before and I would hate to be jumping the Gun.

    This is further evidence that the Bible is true. The Egyptians, being originally descendants of Ham specifically Mizraim (Egypt) as similarly Ham’s other descedent Cush (Ethiopia), must have the same Y-DNA as Noah’s other sons, Shem and Japheth, its an impossibility for them not to have. Therefore the descendants of Shem and Japheth must also be R1b.
    The specific haplogroup of King Tutankhamen is R1b1b2, which has distinct origin. You also have to know from which population the genetic marker originated, simply looking at overall percentages does not give you the full picture.

    For example, 12% of the population in Turkey is R1b1b2 and its 85% in Ireland, however, it was found that it originated in Turkey based on the amount of additional mutations (diversity) it accumulated within that population.

    An ancient race from Anatolia (possibly related to Hattians and the people who built the first structures in history, and spoke an isolated and extinct language) migrated along the Mediterranean, they reached Egypt and probably became the dominant class, and they reached Western Europe at a later time.
    The story of Noah’s sons is (additionally) based on cultural and linguistic traits. It has really no basis on genetics, but it can help us. Ham is the representation of the aboriginal Near East races that were encountered by Shem (representing northern Mesopotamian groups), and Japeth as the Indo-European foreigners who lived in the periphery according to them.

    Since language and culture can be adopted quite fluidly, we can imagine that the majority of the early Jews or Egyptians were ‘Hamites’, but they adopted the ways of Shem and doing so took that identity. So we can have the majority of the population being of one genetic type, and the ruling class being another.

    This is also true of Persia, where they were originally a Shemite group (Elam) and mixed with the Indo-European speaking Medes.
    The ancestral R1b* marker did not originated in Europe either, it came from the Middle East, near the Levant or Anatolia. Later on they populated Europe and it was a very successful lineage, otherwise there wouldnt be such significant numbers of them in the present. It’s similar to how Europeans populated the New World, but the West Asians colonized Europe first, primarily from the Mediterranean.
    What’s more, there is also the possiblity of intermixing with ancient pre-human races. That would explain the relatively rapid evolution of human features. Neanderthals in Europe already developed light pigmentation, and ‘Peking Man’ has facial flatness similar to East Asians. And these pre-humans also had origins in Africa as homo erectus. Humans could just be a diverse mixture of different ‘races’ that came as waves out of Africa.

    The implications are quite staggering here, R1b is not common amongst modern Ashkenazi Jews, which means they are highly diluted mainly or some not descendats of Noah-Shem and aren’t even Semites.

  13. Pepperoncini

    Kin Tut’s Y-Hap has never been released, so any claims to the contrary is just speculation. One can’t form a definite opinion based on amateur sleuthing.

  14. Horn of Africa

    Diodorus Siculus says in Book Three, “The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians are a colony drawn out of them by Osiris; and that Egypt was formerly no part of the continent; but a sea at the beginning of the world, and that it was afterwards made land by the river Nile.”

    This testimony is corroborated by geology. Rennel after scientific investigation says, “The configuration and composition of the low lands of Egypt leave no room to doubt that the sea once washed the base of the rocks on which the pyramids of Memphis stand; the present base of which is, reached by the inundations of the Nile at an elevation of seventy or eighty feet above the Mediterranean.” How remote, must be the period when Egypt was not the gift of the Nile. Rennel declares that Egypt had no infancy because, its first colonists had been civilized in Ethiopia.

  15. Well done, respect. Sick of people saying Egyptians are “Black” what ever the hell that means. I’m Asante, point blank period. You explain it much better than I and I will make sure I spread the word.

  16. I doubt egypt would tell us if it wasn’t their ancestors bones they found, that would mean rewriting history books, and forgoing claim to not only the mummies of the royals but to the pyramids they built with help from their darker skinned brothers and sisters. I also agree in the many earlier forms of humanoid life contributing to our current genetic differences in some way such as polynesian dna isn’t just asian is it?
    It really bugs me that you people are bickering about race and claims rather than learn the truth. there is a difference in race, yes we are all human but its those differences that make us unique. and its the dna that can help us trace our roots, which is very important for those of us that question where we came from. I am here in america the melting pot, yet I get more racist comments geared towards me because I am white than I do because I am native american. I actually like being both and both are important to my research. just as those of you who are black and something else most likely care about both sides of what makes you you… so please stop the racism comments its science not a hate crime. I will withhold my own opinion on what I believe to be the truth as I am sure you would call me a racist for it.

  17. tiger

    1 thing which has me wondering in all this……..well make it a few things i wonder why were not mentioned. 1 is why didnt anybody mention the oldest mummies ever found in egypt the infamous “ginger” mummies? 5-6 of them all blonde and red haired and of eurasian skulls to match. 2 is a fairly new dna testing done on berbers shows them to be a branch off of the SAMI people. the seperation is dated to thru genetics as being to approx 8-9000 yrs ago. the SAMI people are western european and at that time would have resided in western france but now and for thousands of yrs reside in northern scandanavia. they are viking white. this makes sense since berbers have always been known as white or southern european most thought. obviously not tho. now 8-9000 yrs ago they split from the SAMI people the sami continue north following the reindeer and the other porton of the sam head south east for some reason(these would become the berbers of north africa. now from egyptian art to all mediteranean art shows them as european. but in more specific art say of 5th century BC the greeks have famous paintings on vase which depicts hercules wrestling the giant of lybia….es white with red hair, and hercules is white with dark hair. now, if 8ish thousand yrs ago these bright whites are moving from france to what would end up being north africa and it was a walk through what would become greece through what would become mesopatamia and down thru what is modern day palestine thru egypt….pause how long would this alone have taken them? who knows right? pause remember the 5000 BC + ginger mummies of egypt? right nothing written in stone here but just talking here. so thru egypt into north africa and settle down. they are joined by southern europeans and capsians more eurasians and iberomauresians etc. so is it not possible for one these are some of your first animal herders, also on this move from western europe to north africa some would be lost along the way or settle in some regions etc, they already herd animals they are moving thru regions coming out of europe into asia minor that are already farming already using beasts of burden including the horse. and have to pass thru egypt, and it would seem the earlest egyptian mummies seem to resemble them perfectly i mean they are called the ‘ginger’ mummies. hmmmmmmmmmm…… and the head curator and archaeologist in egyptian museum said one thing regaurding there ancient racial make up didnt he, yes he said they are the same then as now to a very high percent. and if you ever been to egypt and look at everything there is to see, most dont look black in anyway what so ever and they look like the museum staff for goodness sakes. the sculptures especially and the art. and anytime you see a black person you see them in chains or in trouble or a world of hurting. except for the less then one hundred yr period of the 25th dynasty. i mean tut had slippers with blacks on the feet suffering. he would walk on them all day.

    • You are a bit of an idiot. Firstly due to your grammar and secondly because of your stupid claims. People with black skin are never depicted suffering in Egyptian art. You obviously don’t know what you’re talking about. Tut had black grandmother, Queen Tiye, for goodness sake.

  18. starchild

    If this is not the dummest analysis ever of the egyptians!!!!..you can look at the paintings & sculptures & see that they were black people!..everything about them were african including language & culture..the greek historian herodotus called black..if the egyptians weren’t black then the ancient romans weren’t white…

    • All right you idiotic Black, I am banning you.

    • Joy Time

      Sub-Saharan Africans had no written language, no stone buildings, no paintings of a similar quality, no sculptures of a similar quality. The Egyptians were not of the Negroid race.

      • Anonymous


      • Anonymous


  19. starchildstarchild

    African people are a diverse people,so just because they all dont possess what we define as “true” african features doesn’t mean they weren’t black,it just simply meant that they were another tribal african people.The bible refers to africa as the land of ham/black people.The question would not be whether or not the egyptians were black because black people are the world indigenous people,but the question would be,when did other racial types came into being??..

  20. starchildstarchild

    African people are a diverse people,so just because they all dont possess what we define as “true” african features doesn’t mean they weren’t black,it just simply meant that they another tribal african people.The bible refers to africa as the land of ham/black people.The question would not be whether or not the egyptians were black because all indigenous people of the world black ,but the question would be,when did other racial types came into being??..

  21. starchildstarchild

    Hey mr.roberts while you’re all in africa trying to make big lip africans white,you need to be concerned with darkskinned romans such as the severance dynasty rulers.the romans weren’t pure white especially the etruscans..

  22. Lynn

    A personal genomics company in Switzerland says they’ve reconstructed a DNA profile of King Tutankhamen that shows the pharaoh’s male lineage by watching the Discovery Channel, but researchers who worked to decode Tut’s genome in the first place say the claim is “unscientific.”

    Swiss genomics company iGENEA has launched a Tutankhamen DNA project based on what they say are genetic markers that appeared on a computer screen during a Discovery Channel special on the famous pharaoh’s genetic lineage.

    “Maybe they didn’t know what they showed, but we got 16 markers from the Y chromosome from these pharaohs,” Roman Schultz, the managing director of iGENEA, told LiveScience.

    If the claims were true, it would put King Tut in a genetic profile group shared by more than half of Western European men. That would make those men relatives – albeit distant ones – of the pharaoh.

    But Carsten Pusch, a geneticist at Germany’s University of Tubingen who was part of the team that unraveled Tut’s DNA from samples taken from his mummy and mummies of his family members, said that iGENEA’s claims are “simply impossible.” Pusch and his colleagues published part of their results, though not the Y-chromosome DNA, in the Journal of the American Medical Association (JAMA) in 2010. The Y chromosome is the sex chromosome found only in males, and looking at the genes in this chromosome would show Tut’s male lineage.

    Pusch’s team used snippets of Y-chromosome DNA to link Tut to his closest relatives, identifying his mom and dad. But they didn’t publish the full genetic data that would allow genomics companies like iGENEA to link modern people to the Tutankhamen lineage. According to Schultz, that crucial data is what appeared on the Discovery Channel.

    “Dr. Albert Zink from the EURAC [European Academy of Bolzano, an independent research center] in Bolzano and co-author of the 2010 JAMA publication screened the footage and confirmed that the company acts very unscientific,” Pusch wrote in an email to LiveScience. “The Swiss company did not try to get into contact with us prior to launching their new Internet page.”

    The alleged Discovery Channel markers put Tut in a genetic profile group, or haplogroup, that also includes more than half of the men in Western Europe. Schultz said the company is now searching for the closest living relatives of Tutankhamen, men who share all 16 genetic markers on the pharaoh’s supposed Y chromosome. Exact matches get a refund for their $179 to $399 test and will also get free additional DNA analysis.

    The haplogroup R1b1a2, which iGENEA claims includes King Tut, arose 9,500 years ago in the Black Sea region. How Tut’s ancestors would have gotten from that region to Egypt is unknown, but Schultz said iGENEA hopes to learn more by collecting more close and exact matches from modern people of Western European descent.

    “The better the match, the more recent the common ancestor,” Schultz said.

    But people hoping to prove that they’ve got an ancestor in common with the notoriously sickly boy king should take iGENEA’s claims with a grain of salt, Pusch said: “It appears that they try to better sell their DNA testing kit by using the media attention connected to King Tut.”

  23. Ishi

    In December 2012, DNA tests were conducted on the mummies of Pharaoh Rameses III and his son, which proved that they belonged to human Y chromosome group E1b1a. This is the Y chromosome group of Sub Saharan Africans who speak Niger–Congo languages.
    The disclosed Y chromosome group of the Pharaoh, at the time of releasing the report, was considered as just one of the details to make the investigation scientifically solid with facts. But its revelation caused a stir equal to the purpose of the original forensic investigation.
    Another group of mummies from the Amarna period of Egyptian pharaohs were tested by DNA Tribes, an American Company which specialises in conducting DNA tests, in 2013.

    The conclusion of the tests were that the mummies autosomal profiles would be most frequent in the present day populations of the African Great Lakes region and Southern Africa. Subsequent analysis of the autosomal profile of the mummy of Pharaoh Rameses III also concluded that this matched the genetic profiles of the population of the Great Lakes region as well.

    It was reported in the DNA Tribe’s digest of February 2013, that the DNA match results of the ancient Egyptian Amarna royal mummies with the present day world regions reflect the population changes in Africa after the time of Rameses III .
    One issue which remains unresolved is that of language. The language of ancient Egypt is classified as belonging to the Afro-Asiatic family of languages, which are spoken by people like the Somali and Amhara of Ethiopia, while the genetic profiles of the mummies match those of Niger–Congo language speakers. The most likely explanation is that some of the Niger-Congo speaking people, who were carriers of human Y chromosome E1b1a, moved into ancient Egypt along the Nile from the Sahara region as the region dried up and fused with the Afro-Asiatic speaking people, giving rise to the unique language of ancient Egypt.

    However, these speakers of the Niger–Congo language went on to form the ruling class producing pharaohs for Egypt, while retaining the customs which they practised in common with their relatives who had migrated south into the Great Lakes region as the genetic tests have shown.

    • E1B1 is actually ancient Northeast African/Middle East Caucasoid. It goes back to the birth of the Caucasian race 42,000 YBP.

      Egyptian Coptic is not a Niger-Congo language so it is highly dubious that Black Niger-Congo speakers moved into Egypt at any time in the past 17,000 years, though Egypt may have been Black 17,000 YBP.

      • Did not Caucasians develop in Eurasia? And by Eurasia i mean central Eurasia ie the Caucasus mountain region (thus Caucasoid)? Halo group E & its sub groups such as E1b1are prolific through out sub Saharan Africa. How is it in any way connected to the birth of the Caucasian race? The climate conditions in the middle east weren’t condusive to creating the Caucasoid phenotype. #ijs

      • Ann

        The Y-DNA is largely Near Eastern or Eurasian. The E3b Y DNA and M1 MtDNA ORIGINATED in the Near East (possibly in Arabia) ~20,25,000 YBP and is also thought to be “ancient Caucasoid.”

        E1B1 is actually ancient Northeast African/Middle East Caucasoid. It goes back to the birth of the Caucasian race 42,000 YBP.

        E3b or E1b1
        Possible time of origin approx 22,400 years BP[1]
        Possible place of origin North Africa or Horn of Africa

        E-P2 ORIGINATED in East Africa.

        How did you come to the conclusion E1b1 or E3b origin is outside of Africa, when it’s ancestor ORIGINATED in Africa?

  24. I humbly disagree Robert. Not totally but in part. The dna test im familiar with show a preponderance of Sub Saharan African dna. These were test taken from actually ancient Egyptian mummies. In of course talking about the DNA Tribes test. Other genetic test im familiar with are toatal frauds (iGenea Tut test) or they are extrapolations from modern Egyptians. As for skull studies admittedly the only one im familiar with was done identify Cleopatra’s sister Arsinoe. The Africoid features helped identify her. I will look into these “Caucasoid” Egyptian skulls. Of course we know Egypt was a cosmopolitan & racially mixed society. Arab types clearly existed in Egypt. The most recent dna test seem to confirm the Black African component of ancient Egypt to have been far larger than the 9% you state. I also read your post “What Race were the Egyptians” but it seems the comment thread has been closed. I present my take on the whole Afro-Euro Egyptian argument here

  25. Jason Y

    Some white nationalists agree Egyptians were black, but they claim they were originally white, and as they declined they became more black.

    • DarkLegoMan

      National Geographic also points to that black Egyptian decline, despite having the opposite intention.

      • DarkLegoMan

        I was in Egypt only briefly but the Egyptians in Cairo look like a mixture of Arab, black and Berber.

        Getting up into Alexandria they are more Arab with some Greek.

        Egyptians might have been black and Berber to begin with but the Arabs and Greeks both intermarried with them.

        • DarkLegoMan

          Egyptian depictions of themselves compared to Nubians, impressive in their own right, debunks the myth of a black Egypt in its height. As Egypt blackened its pyramids and civilization itself was comparitively less “Great”.

  26. Jason Y

    If evolution supposedly made blacks weak, then how come they are so physically strong (even so much to be desired as slaves)? Also, wouldn’t a tough tropical environment make people more tough rather than weak? Some questions for WNs.

  27. dorisjean23

    Why are people comparing DNA of a modern population of Egypt with the original African population of thousands of years ago? That’s like comparing the DNA of the modern population of American with the original American population of thousands of years ago.

    • A number of reasons would inspire most of us. For one thing, to see who was there first, and thus has a claim on it. (Technically it is clear that in that location there were both blacks as slaves, and whites as rulers.)
      Also to see the pattern of admixture, how long it took for admixture to destroy it (as it always does. . .I mean, have you seen a brown country that is thriving?!), and if it was equally done by males of both races?

      And yes, the comparison is similar. People are also very curious to find out who was here first, based on the DNA of the most ancient bones, and what is seen is that the mongolian mixed Asian/African/Europeans came over the land bridge from Siberia and were here with the whites, who they called their gods. The whites mainly if not all left, but when their children came back many generations later as explorers they were all hailed as gods by the “natives” there. Magilan and Columbus both!

    • That is a good analogy.

      We do not even KNOW who the first Native Americans WERE. The American Indians living in North America today are clearly descended from Russians but some evidence suggests that Austronesian or who knows who else were there even earlier.

      Arabs did not enter Egypt (until AFTER the Greeks had been there and also Romans) during the 7th Century-Pyramids were not build by Muslims.

  28. Historia Nerd

    I want to believe the Elamite/Dravidian/Egyptian Theory, but not sure if it’ll hold

  29. Big d

    intrestering read.
    A few holes in the Afrocentric theory.
    The Afrocentric seems to use the Arab invasion as the reason for Egypt no longer being a black population.
    The Arab Islamic empire also expanded into sub Saharan Africa and Europe, yet those populations remain black and white respectively, so why is it any different for Egypt?
    I can’t believe people are holding on to the DNA tribes study as evidence. They only used 8 loci indicators.
    Also e1b1 really. Have any Afrocentric looked at other DNA study’s to see the other sequences. I guess not.
    These Afrocentric so called scholars whom a lot of you base your answers off, have been caught using photoshoped images for there presentations. Distorting and misquoting historical accounts, Herodotus being a prime example.
    Also just basically lying through there back teeth.
    Afrocentrics like to take the credit for all these civilisations outside of sub Saharan Africa, from Egypt to the Sumarians to the phonecians as well as a long list of others. But yet not one of these civilisations remains black. You would have thought at least one of them would.
    Just a thought.

    • actually the holes are in the information you have and your knowledge of the degree of miscegenation that occurred in Egypt and Asia Minor. Egypt was conquered and colonized not just by Arabs but by other Caucasoid peoples for over 2000 yrs. You cant compare the minimal expansions by Arabs into southern Europe and Sub Saharan Africa to this prolonged immigration and migration. Arabs and Africans nevertheless have left their genetic markers in southern Europe and southern Europeans “olive” skin tones are evident of this. Many Libyans look like mixed race Afro Americans as do other north Africans. As for Herodotus,Diodorus and other contemporary historians plainly stated what they saw I mean whats to argue? As for lying through ones teeth Eurocentrics perpetrated thee most blatant fraud with the totality fabricated iGENEA King Tut dna test stating Tut shared dna with roughly 50% of western European males- A Total lie.
      The dna Tribe test state what they state and arguing the fact DNA Tribes use 8 loci indicators(as you state) doesn’t dismiss those locators indicate Black African origin. I break down the Afro-Euro Egypt debate concisely here https://hucipher.wordpress.com/2015/04/26/the-afroeuro-centric-ancient-egypt-debate/

  30. Achilles

    When whites arrived in North America they fought the natives savages and usually gont the worst of it! Then whites applied their superior tech and adopted the Indians method of warfare and improved it beat the savage at their own game. Why didn’t Indians adapt to the whitemans fighting techs and beat him at his own game? Answer: no race has ever been as quick on their feet and can adapt like the white man, history will back me up on this. History will always disprove your bullshit excuses. Ipso facto, we still rule!

    • yeah you guys still rule but in this long history of earth it hasn’t always been that way. When the Vikings set foot into North America they got ran off. why? well for one thing their war tech was more equal at that time. jump ahead a few centuries & Europeans have pergected Chinese gun powder tech in the constant wars they faught amongst themselves & stepped to a niave native American population that also was highly vulnerable to European disease. European disease probably killed more native Americans than guns. Europeans have had a good run as of recent but in truth its a tribute to all human adaptability & survival skills. Europes geographic position is very fortunate also. Between Africa & Asia & next to the middle east Europeans benifited from the tech & invention of all three then later innovated on thier own but if you’re gonna own Europes triumph today & be honest you have to recognize where it came from also

  31. Ann

    E3b or E1b1 Possible time of origin approx 22,400 years
    Possible place of origin North Africa or Horn of Africa

    As you can see, E3b or E1b1 could’ve ORIGINATED in the Horn of Africa….the Horn of Africa is located in sub-Saharan Africa.

    What if it’s concluded E3b or E1b1 did originate in the Horn of Africa…would you still consider the Y-DNA marker a near east/caucasoid marker?

    • I think everyone says it’s Caucasoids. There were Caucasoids in that region you know. Horners are ~43% Caucasoid.

      • Well i, most African Americans & many West Africans belong to haplo group E1b1a & im far from “Caucasoid”


        Also I believe the previous gene studies stating Horn Africans are 45% caucasoid or European are a mistake stemming from the fact dna companies :
        “ancestry painting” algorithm uses West African Yoruba as a reference population, and East Africans are often not well modeled as derivative of West Africans. So, for example, the Nubian individual who I’ve analyzed supposedly comes up to be well over 50% “European” in ancestry painting. Then again, I”m 55-60% “European” as well according that method! So we shouldn’t take these judgments to heart too much. Obviously something was off, and thanks to Genome Bloggers like Dienekes Pontikos we know what the problem was: the populations of the Horn of Africa have almost no distinctive “Bantu” element to connect them with West Africans like the Yoruba.”

        ” The HapMap Utah European American sample and the Nigerian Yoruba are very suboptimal for people with eastern African background. In contrast, African Americans are a mixture of West Africans and Northern Europeans, so the ancestry painting algorithm has nearly perfect reference populations for them. The results for African Americans may not be very detailed and rich, but they’re probably pretty accurate at the level of grain which they’re offering results.”


        This is another reason so many African Americans look at ancient Egypt & East Africans & simply see “Black” people. We are a genetically mixed bunch that have a similar gene mixtures as these ancient & modern Africans
        Afro Americans have European & mongoloid(Amerindian) & even other admixture & ancient Egypt had Eurasian admixture & horn Africans have admixture from an ancient group from the Arabian peninsula. As a kid in school long before id been introduced to any so called Afro Centric philosophy when we opened the history book to ancient Egypt most of the people represented in the pictures of artifacts looked Black to me. I didn’t need JA Rogers, Chiek Anta Diop or Herodotus to tell me that. Now we can argue what is “Black” but for me Black is what i “see”. My view of “Blackness” is not monolithic but for myself the common threads are a connection to Africa (ancient or contemporary) shared phenotypical traits(no one Black person may posses all of these but usually Blacks posses more than one of these such as skin color,nose,lip & skull shape & hair). Africans have the most genetic diversity with in the human family so naturaly African phenotypes are varied. No one argues the seperation of West African so called negroe types & pygmies or Khosian peoples but the horn African has been attempted to be claimed as caucasoid since Guissepe Sergi. One can also say an of shoot or sub group of “Blacks” (lets say Black Asiatics) can even consist of South Indian Tamil,Maylasian,New Guinean,Adaman & other island peoples of South East Asia & the South Pacific. I think saying Horn Africans arent Black is like saying Cambodians are not Asian.


      • Sam Rothenberg

        If horners are 40 percent caucasoid. Then who the hell are those pitch black people the Egyptians portrayed as Nubians? It’s obvious to everyone that they were all originally black. DNA testing their Art History archeology. Linguistics. And now genetics. All point in that direction.

        • Thats because Ethiopians are not Caucasoids

          They are a Black African people with “slender” features with a long written history & having such the Eurocentric racist tendency is to seperate them from other Black Africans. This all goes back to the slave trade & the Europeans psychological need to justify slavery. Having a written history & a high civilization Eurocentrics couldn’t allow them to be connected to the Africans whom they enslaved in the west. Today due to the long entrinched Eurocentric view of Black Africans you have Europeans operating with this racist view point thinking its normal & correct.
          West Africans arent the same as Khosian peoples but you never see Europeans trying to seperate Black Americans from Mandela or ancient Khosian cultures.
          This is because Europeans thinking places a higher value on written histories & cultures that have built complex architecture like the Ethiopian castles,temples & churches. You even see some Eurocentrics doing the same with ancient Nubian civilizations attempting to seperate them from Black Africa despite the fact their temple art & hieroglyphs depict them more “negroid” than for example…me Will Smith or Pharrell Williams
          Ethiopian Haplo types older than Eurasian back migrations

          Eurasian back migrations to the Horn only 3k yrs old

          Ethiopians are primarily y Haplo group E which originated in Africa is a macro haplo group many Black Africans belong to including Afro Americans

  32. Give it up dude person. All of you have been busted, okay? The Egyptian people were a tribe of Black (actually various shades of reddish-Brown from very dark to medium brown like Jasper stones and top soil) people. NONE was white. There is NOthing good about being “white.” Nothing. It is really a shameful thing to be without color. Without lips. Just hairy, pink, and just ugly. May I suggest you read my history book, known as The Bible, to get your facts because your pseudo crap does not add up and is no longer accepted and its basis is on the evil lie of white supremacy. A lie NEVER lives forever. You people have stolen everything that is good from the non-whites on this earth. Including the Egyptian culture to which you contributed NOTHING.

  33. Lucien

    The Sahara desert was a formidable physical barrier between Sub-Saharan Africa and the rest of the world. There was and is a huge difference between Sub-Saharan blacks and North Africans–racially, culturally, and socially.

    It took brains, drive, and ingenuity to cross the Sahara. That’s why the ancient Egyptians were building pyramids and had civilized law and order while Sub-Saharan blacks were naked in huts flinging spears at each other.

  34. Oral Powell

    White people were African? Would had died of skin cancer specially in those days.
    DNA evidence have proven they were not white.

    • Before admixture, no native american tribes in the southwest US were black, and the Aleutians way, way up north were not “snow white”. There goes your implied theory.

  35. anhaga olson

    Re genetic diversity in Africa see
    The Evolution of Human Genetic and Phenotypic Variation in Africa

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