Mathilda’s Anthropology Blog on Ancient Egyptians

Here.

Her conclusion is that ancient Egyptians were pretty much the same folks as the modern Egyptians – a North African Caucasoid group with some Black admixture. Sounds about right to me. She says that ancient and modern Egyptian DNA is mainly Asiatic in origin. This is true, but what does it mean. I think she refers to ancient Caucasoid DNA from the Middle East.

85% of modern Egyptian ancestry traces back to Dynastic and earlier times. Only ~5% of modern Egyptian DNA goes back to any Arab input via Arab invasions. They’re the same people as they used to be! The moderns are the same as the ancients.

Matilda did an excellent job taking on Afrocentrist dolts and losers for a long time on her blog.

Modern Egyptian participants in the Miss Egypt contest in Cairo in 2007. These women are the same people as the Dynastic Egyptians.

37 Comments

Filed under Africa, Anthropology, Antiquity, Blacks, Egypt, Egyptians, Genetics, History, North Africa, North Africans, Physical, Race/Ethnicity, Regional

37 responses to “Mathilda’s Anthropology Blog on Ancient Egyptians

  1. Conquistador

    So what explains Egypt’s decline then? Is it safe to say Islam?

    I’m convinced that if the peoples of north Africa and southwest Asia converted to something else the region would improve drastically. Even the “Islamic golden age” is mostly a myth. It took a long time for Islam to cement itself into the areas it conquered. Conversion by force was deemed unprofitable as non-Muslims could be taxed more and those who did convert were Muslims on paper only for social advancement purposes. Eventually that all changed.

    Modern Turkey is the most radically secular Islamic country on earth and they are the most advanced socially, culturally, politically, and militarily. Coincidence?

  2. Gay State Girl

    The one in middle of the front row looks Chinese.

  3. AndrewV

    @Tertius,

    I agree and you would think that the current crop of Feminists would have learned that lesson, but apparently not.

    Consider this question. What reproductive rights does a man have?

  4. There is no such thing as a North African Caucasian race! There is no migratory evidence of Asiatics entering Africa during predynastic or early dynastic Egypt that would have greatly altered the regions aboriginal genetic makeup. The picture presented above has no validity towards proving anything, for modern Egypt is a nation and not a monolithic tribal, ethnic, or racial oasis of one pure genetic stock. The modern-day Egyptian nation, which is not an continuation of ancient Dynastic Egypt has experienced generations upon generations of immigrants let alone a history of numerous invasions.

    And even Ancient Egypt wasn’t genetically monolithic or racially pure, however it wasn’t a Caucasian nation…for this type of racialization of humanity as it related to national identity, intelligence, geography, and social standing is a mostly 20th century racist European invention that reached it’s zenith under Adolf Hitler’s Nazis. Northern Europeans and Germanics became obsessed with this type of thinking and its not surprising that the Eurocentric anthropologist and archeologist who have attempted to define the world like this were educated during the eras when Eugenics, Teutonicism, and Aryanism were flourishing and being passed off as the new science.

    • They are the same people. Egyptians are the same today as they were then – a largely Caucasoid people with some Black DNA. Most Egyptian DNA, ancient and modern, is Asian – from the Middle East. They came from there 8-10,000 YBP. Egyptians are not Black people.

    • It is indeed the same now as it was then. 85% of modern Egyptian DNA goes back to the ancient Egyptians. So they are the same people, bottom line. And Egyptians are not Black people.

      • AndrewV

        Are you really still arguing with Afrocentrist? Why?

        Next they are going to tell you that the indigenous Berbers are really the freed slaves of the Tuareg, and that the Canary Islanders were really black and so are the indigenous Sami.

        My previous statement is very sarcastic, but I contend that no scientific evidence of any sort is going to overcome any sort of religious belief, and is meant to underscore that point.

        • AndrewV since it’s obvious that you’re an Eurocentrist, do you really believe that the term and the functional category “Caucasian” is a scientific term? Do you know when it was first coined and by whom, what it originally defined, and who was actually qualified to be a “Caucasian?”

          And if the you believe so-called Afrocentrism is philosophically religious based, is it not true that Eurocentrism just as the term and perceived racial category “Caucasoid” are also philosophically-based having absolutely nothing to do with science?

          Are the Tuareg and the Canary Islanders definitively “white?” For we know that “white” was invented to recognize a very exclusive and narrowly defined phenotype and social construct based both on the proof of absolute white European ancestry and whitish skin color (or the absence of skin color). Depending on the times, the politics, or the country, many who are considered “white” today racial purity and authenticity was challenged and sometimes rejected, no matter how light-skinned they were or what degree of European ancestry they possessed.

          The history of white Europeans and race is nowhere near as scientific as you might want to believe or postulate.

        • Caucasoid is a valid term both for skulls and for genes. Genetically, it includes all of the peoples of Europe, the Middle East, the Caucasus and South Asia, with a few exceptions here and there. With a few exceptions, all of these peoples are Caucasoid on skulls and with fewer exceptions, on genes.

          There is a borderland in Central Asia between Asians and Caucasians in the steppes where the people are very hard to define as either Asians or Caucasians.

          Some groups such as Berbers are very hard to define as to whether they are Blacks or Caucasians. They look Caucasian, but they’re genes are barely into the African territory. However, their skulls are Caucasians.

    • Carol Clemons

      I agree with you dubz

  5. AndrewV

    @dubz

    “AndrewV since it’s obvious that you’re an Eurocentrist,”

    The above statement was where you went off the rails. Your basic premise is wrong. You would have been better off asking what my position is rather than assuming an either/or dichotomy of Afrocentrism/ Eurocentrist.

    I am not interested in either the nationalist/religious arguments of either camp. As far as I am concerned the whole lot can go flock off and argue among themselves as to how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

    I will tell you that my current position favours a ‘weak Eden’ theory, which means mostly out of Africa. My interest is in population genetics and my current position is based on population genetic studies and analysis. The evidence that apparently early hominids were promiscuous to a such a hilarious extent that it practically beggars belief is just icing on the cake.

    I am interested in facts only. That apparently the Kalahari Bushmen are the most closely related to the last identified oldest modern humans has no ideological impact on me in the slightest.

    I do not share the political consternation of the Chinese authorities of the discovery of the red haired Tarim mummies, because I do not favour nationalistic claims that only Han ever lived in that area.

    I will admit that I do tolerate the Eurocentrist to a greater extent because (and I could be wrong), their view is more informed by the scientific method and as more evidence comes to light they will be forced to change their views.

    In the end I will go where the facts lead me. If the facts are inconvient to the current theory then it is “so long and thanks for all the fish” as far as I am concerned.

    YMMV

    • AndrewV

      Replying to my own post, because I am going to throw you a bone:

      There is at least one genetics blog that frowns upon the use of the term “Caucasian” because they too are apparently sick and tired of all the nonsense associated with the term.

  6. It’s “Mathilda”, not “Matilda”. She’s a very smart woman.

  7. I am very fond of Mathilda’s blog. And yes of course there is such a thing as a North African Caucasian race, and it has been there a long time. As mentioned by Robert, it is clearly demarked both by genes and by skulls, and I happen to be an Anthropologist pretty well versed in both genes and skulls. And the convention is that “Whites”=”Caucasians”=”Europeans” (or Europoids, or whatever other disguised terms are sought as a replacement), and they can be traced back to the Western half of the Out Of Africa movements starting something like 50000-60000 years ago, the Eastern half of the same wave becoming the Asiatic and American Aboriginals.I don’t see how any of that is even controversial.

  8. NonKoolAidDrinker

    “Are the Tuareg and the Canary Islanders definitively “white?” For we know that “white” was invented to recognize a very exclusive and narrowly defined phenotype and social construct based both on the proof of absolute white European ancestry and whitish skin color (or the absence of skin color). Depending on the times, the politics, or the country, many who are considered “white” today racial purity and authenticity was challenged and sometimes rejected, no matter how light-skinned they were or what degree of European ancestry they possessed”

    White is not a narrow phenotype. It includes Europeans and most Middle Easterners. It was invented to counter “black” or “native”. A person can be very swarthy and still be “white” as long as they’re not black or native.

  9. B.Truth

    Robert – Congrats on taking on Mathilda’s job of propagating Eurocentic/White Supremacist ideas that would want to deny certain historical truths but unfortunately there are many holes to your story.

    Please provide more information on this so called evidence found such as which samples was it taken from. Ancient Egypt covers THOUSANDS of years of history and migrations of different people from varying regions. Your claim of a caucasoid skull seems to forget that many sub-sahran Africans (most diverse group genetically) have this skull strucuture specifically groups in east Africa such as those found in Ethiopia and neighbouring Somalia (where Ancient Egyptian oral history itself claims its origin in Punt land) or in Central Africa with some Tutsis o West and central africa with some fulanis and many related groups throughout the continent.

    • Ok, I just banned your ass nigga. Now head on back to the basketball court or the corner or the porch or wherever it is you hang out in the daytime. Better hurry, sun’s coming up!

  10. RObertLindsdayblowscocks

    you’re a fucktard

  11. oh ok robert, i was reading your comments & everyone else’s, up until u said your banned nigga. explains now that your racist brother..not good my friend (: but anyways im from eritrea north of ethiopia. i wanna ask you are you familiar with word cushite? because the ancient egyptians lol are not white or middle east or black africans that you see in modern day. the science of now believe the beja of north sudan, the oromo & afar of ethiopia, the somali of somalia ARE all CUSHITIC brothers who are the closest related to ancient egyptians. white scientists say this, white anthropologist say this. & we’ve been knowing this back home. please mr robert, go to this link that im about to give you on the BEJA people from an anthropologist named orville jenkins, & look for beja people please . try not to be racist though brother or supremacy though. be one of those educated smart white people. but please type in orville jenkins, then next to that, BEJA people. ok have a good..

    • Corvus

      Hello Mr.Berhane

      I hope you realize what you just said doesn’t contribute to the problem when deconstructing racial inconsistencies concerning ancient Egypt. The fact of the matter is, and that is despite what anyone racist says, Egypt was black Hamite civilization. I don’t attribute the designated name Africa to the Continent because it was originally without a name, but given one later by the Greeks called Aeithiopia. Later given to Scipio Africanus as a cognomen after defeating Hannibal at the battle of Zama in today Tunisia.

      The bible Gods inspired word and one of the worlds oldest history books gives the correct explaination on the origin of the races. Noahs three sons Shem, Ham, and Japheth attacked as the progenitors for each on the races. The entire black race which extends far outside of Africa was produced by Ham. Ham son’s were Egypt,Ethiopia,Put, and Canaan. Ham was purported to have went south into Africa and adjoining parts of south western Asia where the Kingdom of Saba once stretched between Ethiopia and Yemen.

      Now there’s no mistery concerning that the bible states that Shem created the Caucasian race and Japheth the East Asian Race.

    • Gian Luca

      Yonas Berhane. First without white historians and archaelogists that rediscovered, reconstructed, restored ancient Egyptian history the ancient Egyptian history would got lost unnoticed. White historians and archaeologists made ancient Egypt famous, known and popular world wide. So just because some white historians were indeed racists that doesn mean all white historians are. Actually Eurocentricism is corrected today and no one claims that ancient Egyptians were white Europeans. As an Eritrean you should know it better. It’s a shame that you seem to be a black American ass kissing Afrocentrics. You know exactly that Eritreans have no genetical or cultural links to Bantus or black Americans. Besides the Tigerinia people are not Cushitic and in their own history they say they are mixed race people, between Arabs, Semites and East Africans. The Bejas, the Eritreans or Northern Ethiopians have West Asian Admixture and they don’t represent the entire black African people. Even the pitch black ancient Nubians have no historical or genetical links to West African Bantus or black Americans but to the Nilotic tribes from South Sudan like the Dinkas, Nuer or Mundarist hat are a diffrent stock of the negroid race. Ancient Egyptians travelled and explored ancient Nubia, the today Sudan and they also went to Eritrea what makes sense since these countries are close to Egypt and have a coast at the read sea too. So the Bejas, Eritreans that live in regions that are geographically close to Egypt are the only Subsaharan Africans that have cultural and gentical links to ancient Egypt while the rest of Subsaharan Africans have zero links to ancient Egypt. Keep in mind the Sahara is as big as the USA and Central and West Africa were covered by thick rainforest and jungle: Again Eritreans or the Bejas are NOT fully black themselves and therefore they can resemble ancient Egyptians. However Bejas or Eritreans having links to ancient Egypt doesn’t prove that ancient Egyptians were originally black. The point is black Americans use Eritreans, Beja people and Northern Ethiopians that are not related to them to claim ancient Egyptians as their ancestors and people. Black Americans claim that they build the pyramids because they think they can pick and choose their ancestors as long they can label them as black. In Africa people only identitify themselves with their ethnic groups,culture and language and not with skin colour, black skin means nothing Africa. Afrocentricism is an invention of black Americans that never set foot in Africa and a miscarriage of Eurocentrism. Afrocentrics look at history with the American cultural lense and they have no proper understanding of African history and it context. The problem is that Afrocentrics americanize history. Furthermore being dark skinned doesn’t automatically mean being black, negroid since skin colour alone doesn’t determine race. There are native Nothern Africans in Algeria, Marroko that live in the mountains that are fair skinned and not black. So being African doesn’t always equal being black . Africa is a huge continent with diverse people, ethnic groups, languages yet Afrocentrics pretend that Africans are one homogenous people with one history, culure and language that all originated from ancient Egypt. It’s ridiculous how you pretend that Eritreans or Somalis traditionally considered themselves black like the other Subsaharan Africans. Actually traditional and proud Somalis or Eritreans would be very offended and annoyed if they get lumped together in one basket with other Africans, blacks to get the label black on them.

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  13. Europigs Stole America

    Now take on the eurocentrists who claim it was a white civilization.

    • Real White Nationalist

      Well it mainly was! White with a little black admixture.

      • Yep, ancient Egyptians were 12% Black by genes. Take that White nationalists!

        Ancient Egyptians were 88% White by genes. Take that Black nationalists!

        • Corvus

          Hello,Mr Lindsay

          I hope you very much realize the biological differences between Hamites(blacks) and Shemites(Caucasian). Europeans are not acclimated to thrive in hot tropical areas such as Africa. The whites there now are descendants of Romans,Vandals,French, Spanish,and Portugese from very recent incursions into north Africa.

          I can name several tombs which depict the exact opposite of your claiming on this site. I’d be more then happy do so just for you. If your only respone will be they are conventional renderings displaying the Egyptians in an artistic way, then I’m afraid that won’t work.

          I can give you many reasons why Amenhoteps Mural in the Kings Valley Tomb 22 is not a conventional portrait of himself.

          Now i’ll start by making this easy and see if you’re willing to comply.

          Have a nice day

  14. Amen Hotep

    One day you can show true documentation instead of opinions like Mathilda. The True Facts Are:
    DNA Results from DNA Tribe document that King Tut was an indigenous African with Central and South African DNA: http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CCgQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.dnatribes.com%2Fdnatribes-digest-2012-01-01.pdf&ei=AUq9VNXDMMSnggTmkoHgBw&usg=AFQjCNH5xg3fRAx2qndazpLCmOT4erVucA&sig2=E_PophemUtS0shogc_vHJg&bvm=bv.83829542,d.eXY

    DNA Consultants Documentation that King Tut’s DNA and his Family Lineage are indigenous to Africa and not from the Caucasus Mountains or Western Europe: http://dnaconsultants.com/Default.aspx?PageID=6875719&A=SearchResult&SearchID=7285051&ObjectID=6875719&ObjectType=1

    The Original Reconstruction of King Tut’s Face by Dr. Robin Richards in 2002: http://www.sciencemuseum.org.uk/antenna/tutankhamun/111.asp

    Historical Accounts:
    Herodotus [2.57] The Dodonaeans called the women doves because they were foreigners, and seemed to them to make a noise like birds. After a while the dove spoke with a human voice, because the woman, whose foreign talk had previously sounded to them like the chattering of a bird, acquired the power of speaking what they could understand. For how can it be conceived possible that a dove should really speak with the voice of a man? Lastly, by calling the dove black the Dodonaeans indicated that the woman was an Egyptian. And certainly the character of the oracles at Thebes and Dodona is very similar. Besides this form of divination, the Greeks learnt also divination by means of victims from the Egyptians.

    Herodotus [2.104] There can be no doubt that the Colchians are an Egyptian race. Before I heard any mention of the fact from others, I had remarked it myself. After the thought had struck me, I made inquiries on the subject both in Colchis and in Egypt, and I found that the Colchians had a more distinct recollection of the Egyptians, than the Egyptians had of them. Still the Egyptians said that they believed the Colchians to be descended from the army of Sesostris. My own conjectures were founded, first, on the fact that they are black-skinned and have woolly hair, which certainly amounts to but little, since several other nations are so too; but further and more especially, on the circumstance that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians, are the only nations who have practised circumcision from the earliest times.

    Aristotle wrote in his book “Physiognomica” Chapter V1 (6) : “The Ethiopians and Egyptians are very Black”.
    Diodorus Siculus wrote that the Ethiopians considered the Egyptians their colony.
    Lucian observes an Egyptian boy and notices that he is not merely black, but has thick lips.
    Appollodorus called Egypt the country of the black-footed ones.
    Aeschylus, a Greek poet, wrote that Egyptian seamen had “black limbs.”
    Gaston Maspero states that “by the almost unanimous testimony of ancient [Greek] historians, they [ancient Egyptians] belonged to the African race, which settled in Ethiopia.”

    Read “A History Of The Modern World By R.R. Palmer and Joel Colton – Page 13
    http://books.google.com/books?id=1LhrAAAAIAAJ&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=europeans+were+by+no+means

    Europeans were by no means the pioneer of human civilization. Half of man’s recorded history had passed before anyone in Europe could read or write. The priests of Egypt began to keep written records between 4000 and 3000 B.C., but more than two thousand years later, the poems of Homer were still being circulated in the Greek city-states by word of mouth. Shortly after 3000 B.C., while the pharaohs were building the first pyramids, Europeans were creating nothing more distinguished than huge garbage heaps.

    How can all the above European Writers of History be blind???!!!

    Biblical Evidence: The Sons of Ham (Black) –
    Genesis 10:6 – And the sons of Ham: Cush and Mizraim and Punt and Canaan https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Genesis%2010&version=KJ21
    Cush is the Hebrew name for Nubia/Ethiopia
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Cush?s=t
    Mizraim is the Hebrew name for Egypt (Upper and Lower)
    Psalm 105: 23 “Israel also came into Egypt…the land of Ham http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/mizraim
    Punt is the Hebrew name for Somaliland (Africa)
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/punt?s=t
    Canaan is the Hebrew name for Palestine – Birth Place of Jesus The Christ
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Canaan?s=t

    http://adorepics.com/earliest-known-image-of-jesus-christ-from-the-coptic-museum-in-cairo-egypt-this-painting-of-jesus-is-older-than-the-image-of-the-black-jesus-christ-in-the-church-of-rome-which-is-from-the-6th-centu/

    Black Madonna and Child (Jesus) World Wide: http://www.interfaithmary.net/pages/blackmadonna.html

    Archeological Evidence:
    Egypt is in Africa and will remain in Africa! Egypt is a Nile Valley Civilization not a Western European Civilization!!!

    The Ankh (Symbol of Life) that all the Egyptian Rulers held in their hands and the worship of Horus all came from South Africa: http://www.michaeltellinger.com/stone-circles.php

    The Oldest Mathematical instrument was found in Central Africa that dates back 22,000 B.C. showing that Mathematics started in Africa!! – https://www.naturalsciences.be/expo/old_ishango/en/ishango/introduction.html

    Astronomical Calculations by the People of Mali Africa about The Star Sirius “B” still out rank the telescopes of NASA Scientist today: http://chandra.harvard.edu/chronicle/0400/sirius_part2.html

    The ancient Egyptians were in every sense of the word Africans. They were of racial African descent, spoke an African language, and practiced widespread African customs. Their civilization should therefore be classified as one of the great African kingdoms alongside Nubia, Mali, Ethiopia, and Great Zimbabwe.

    Nubia (5900 B.C.) which is today called the Sudan also called Sub-Saharan Africa is the Mother of Egyptian Civilization:
    http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=990CEFDD1031E432A25752C0A9659C946890D6CF

    There are 223 Pyramids in the so called Sub-Saharan Africa in the Sudan. http://www.philipcoppens.com/nap_art3.html

    They practiced building pyramids in the south of Africa before the Step Pyramid and Great Pyramid of Giza was built.

    There is a 6500 B.C. Astronomical Calendar in Nabata Playa that existed before any Egyptian Civilization: http://wysinger.homestead.com/nabtaplaya.html

    If you need more documentation it is available!! Documentation Always Beats Conversation!!!

  15. Bokar

    Mathilda’s blog was one of the most EUROCENTRIC site available on the web, authored by a blogger that unashamedly showed a bias attaching peoples and monuments to Europe, often in the same manner done by blatantly racist 17-18th century Western historians. The blogger often wrote simply out of spite to attack Afrocentrists as opposed to focusing solely on revealing facts and truths. The blog was extremely advanced in terms of geneticism but pathetically elementary (at best) in its knowledge of African & Middle Eastern history and its peoples, which was often a topic of discussion. Genetics without proper historical knowledge becomes highly speculative and unhistorical. The blogger’s knowledge of Africa and its history showed pitiful ignorance on the subject while attempting to stand on a very specific interpretation of genetic studies to make substanceless arguments.

  16. steppa sowah

    Ofcourse these modern “EGYPTIANS” are the same as the ancients….Just as modern AMERICANS are the same as the ancient ones….As if the KHMT didn’t leave evidence of themselves for the WORLD to see….with their BLUBBER LIPS…FLAT NOSES and WOOLY HAIR….Soon they’ll tell us Columbus “DISCOVERED” the AMERICAS…

  17. TRASH

    Alexandria in Northern Egypt 400 miles South of Crete is genetically Southern Italian-Arab, Greek, Roman, Phoenician.

    Southern Egypt is 100% African.

    Middle Egypt (Cairo) is African, Arab, Roman, Greek, Arabic, Phoenician.

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