Caribbean Day Festival 2001 Riot Video

Video here.

Caribbean Day Festival 2001 in Washington DC was marred by a riot involving two Black gangs from the area (I assume that “crews” means gangs, correct?). These gangs have been warring for some time now. The riot took place at Howard University, but Howard University students did not take place. It appears that few, if any, Caribbeans took part in the riot. Instead, the riots seem to be African-Americans.

At first it’s just the usual fighting. A White boy gets mixed up in it about the 1 minute mark and the Blacks beat him up. The rest of the video is Blacks beating up on each other. Note the presence of many young Black females in the mix. They seem to be as excited as the males. Around the 3:25 mark things start to get really serious when one Black picks up a metal chair and hits another Black over the head with it.

Police were delayed in responding to the gang fight due to a shooting at the Caribbean Day Parade itself. In the shooting, one man was killed and three others were wounded. Three of the four shot were innocent bystanders.

154 Comments

Filed under Blacks, Crime, Race/Ethnicity

154 responses to “Caribbean Day Festival 2001 Riot Video

  1. Chullo

    Note the presence of many young Black females in the mix. They seem to be as excited as the males.

    According to Wikipedia, on sexual dimorphism in different races:
    “Native Americans are the most sexually dimorphic followed by Asians and Europeans followed by Africans and New Guineans who show the most similarity in stature between the sexes”

    I have no idea how to interpret that. But I do remember reading that dimorphism for Neanderthals and Erectus was greater than humans. Despite this there is a greater division of labor between the sexes in humans than neanderthals, and this gave humans an advantage – http://www.terradaily.com/reports/Gendered_Division_Of_Labor_Gave_Modern_Humans_Advantage_Over_Neanderthals_999.html

    So when you hear a feminist say that a man is behaving in a ‘neanderthal’ way, she probably doesn’t realise that this means she is describing a more gender-neutral role. In other words, the neanderthals died out because they were feminists with too much sexual equality.

  2. Lookingforanswers

    Robert,
    Seriously, where do you find this stuff? I’m Black and never even heard about this. Ever think it’s not as common as you think if you don’t actually go looking for it?

  3. Wade in MO

    Carribean Day 2011 is what I think you meant.

    • Lookingforanswers

      Wade in MO,
      Do you just go to youtube and type Black fights or something? When you type White fights I guess nothing comes up right?

      • Wade in MO

        No man. Those are some of my “Favorites” although the last one (that you have to follow a link for) is sad and disturbing.

        I’ve never actually typed “black fights” in before. I’m going to try it now and see if anything good comes up……And white fights aren’t nearly as entertaining.

        • Lookingforanswers

          @ Wade in MO,

          Looking at those videos I wouldn’t even know where to find an environment like that to get caught up in. I guess you think that’s like every friday for Black people. I bet people like me must really suck at being Black in your eyes.

        • Wade in MO

          ” I guess you think that’s like every friday for Black people. I bet people like me must really suck at being Black in your eyes.”

          WTF? A bit hypersensitive aren’t we?

          I know every black person isn’t a thug. We used to have a few blacks that hung around our house. The neighborhood hasn’t been the same since we had to cut them down.

          Black fights are just more entertaining. More screaming, more wilding punching, and weapons. Then of course there’s pulling weave pulling. In high school I could always tell when there was a black girl fight because the floor of the hall would be covered with weave. Fat white girls aside, whites just aren’t that entertaining when it comes to fights.

      • Wade in MO

        @Lookingforanswers

        That was a great idea. There’s a lot of good stuff there. Here’s a sample:

        • Wade in MO

          Holy shit, just ran into this. Look at 28 seconds….FACEKICK!!!! And the black girl actually went into the fight (she started) pregnant. WTF?!

      • Wade in MO

        @Lookingforanswers

        Your “white fights” idea turned out better than I thought.

  4. ski

    Lookingforanswers is using a tactic common amongst apologists for black thuggery: don’t focus at all on what’s wrong with the thuggery, but instead shift the focus onto what’s wrong with people who notice the thuggery. We saw this recently a lot with the editorial on Salon attacking Matt Drudge for posting links to news stories about flash mobs. Drudge didn’t even mention anything about race, just posted links to news stories, but according to the Salon editorial that makes him racist. They also criticized him for not posting links to stories involving white mob violence (which supposedly exists just as much as black mob violence), just like our answer curious poster here with this post.

    Yeah of course whites engage in some degree of fights/mob violence; but not as much as blacks. The black violence apologists however, insist that it’s racist for blacks violence to receive more coverage than white violence despite blacks doing more of it. They implicitly demand a sort of quota system in the media in which white mob violence is given equal time to black mob violence despite white mob violence being much less frequent.

    Mr. Answer Looker also uses another neat tactic, which is to preemptively accuse the people guilty of the “crime” of noticing bad black behavior of thinking that all blacks are guilty of this behavior, despite them not saying that.

    “I guess you think that’s like every friday for Black people. I bet people like me must really suck at being Black in your eyes.”

    The implied syllogism is:
    A. You noticed some incidents of black thuggery.

    B. Therefore you think that every single black acts this way.

    C. But I don’t! Therefore you’re a bigot!

    And the logically implied “cure for bigotry,” is to never notice when blacks act up.

    Well sorry Mr. Answer Looker, but these incidents aren’t quite as uncommon as you think. Have you been paying attention to the recent events in Philly, Chicago, Peoria and so on? Go ahead and check these stories out. It’s not an the arduous search for a needle in a haystack you seem to imply it is. Of course not all blacks act like this, yes. But it’s not so rare that every white who notices it must have spent hours upon hours trawling through google searches of “black fights” or something to find them.

    If you’re a decent black guy who doesn’t want whites to think all blacks “are like that,” you’d be better off condemning black violence than condemning the whites who happen to notice it.

    • Lookingforanswers

      @ ski

      Talk about overeading something! But I will address your points.

      I do categorically condemn that type of violence. It’s not only sad to see but it’s a bit scary if you ask me. I do find it strange though that as a Black person who grew up in one of the roughest neighborhoods in the country I hardly hear about these things but when I come to sites like this, it seems like it happens every day. I was just pointing that out, that’s all. I also find it a bit strange that people find the scariest of Black people fighting in videos to post which can make it seem that we are all like that. I mean, it even scares me when I watch some of that crap!

      I think you are taking the second part of what I said to Wade in MO way too seriously.

      By the way, how/why am I suppose to “be better off condemning black violence”? To who? I’d probably get shot if I confronted some of those people in Wade’s first video. Why am I responsible for what those idiots are doing? Because our skin color is similar? What I do want is to not be lumped together with those clowns and be judged for what I do. Is that too much to ask of intelligent/thinking human beings?

      • Amy

        It makes me wonder whether lots of white-people-behaving-badly videos are being dug up and posted in e.g. Asian countries.

        • Wade in MO

          I’m sure they have their own “gooks behaving badly” videos. I’d bet that the people in China post “southeast asians behaving badly” videos. Particularly from the Phillipines.

  5. Alpha Unit

    What is it, exactly, that people want done about Black thuggery?

    • Uncle Milton

      To Alpha Unit:

      What is it, exactly, that people want done about Black thuggery?
      Stand your grounds laws would help to reduce all thuggery… not just Black thuggery…however, the chance of such laws being passed in California, Chicago, NYC, etc.. are somewhere between Bob Hope and no hope.

    • Back to Africa. :)

      Look, some people just no longer care about “what’s good for blacks.” ‘Cos it turns out that 90% of what’s good for blacks is no good for non-blacks. Race matters, honey, and there’ s nothing you can do to stop it mattering.

  6. Jason

    Racists dont want american racial issues to fit current demographics. They want to focus on minor black issues and ignore that fact that latinos dominate the southwest now and are the largest minority and that asians and arabs are immigrating in large numbers. Racist whites dont want an white/nonwhite dichotomy. Blacks oppose this that is why we support continued immigration.

    • Wade in MO

      ” Racist whites dont want an white/nonwhite dichotomy.”

      More bullshit. I actually support having racial issues fit current demographics. Blacks are only 13% of the population. That is about how much time we should be spent talking about blacks then. The reality is that it is you who doesn’t want racial issues to fit current demoraphics. Blacks just want to piggy back on the backs of others, which is why you want this “white/nonwhite dichotomy”. Why should an immigrant from Vietnam or Iran want to stand around with a bunch of blacks with their hands out yelling “GIBS ME DAT!!!” when they actually work for their money and don’t commit a proportion of murders and other crimes that is several times higher than their share of the population. They should be recognized as seperate groups. Asians are one group. Middle Easterners another. Whites another. etc Blacks would be just another group. If africans and carribean blacks want to form their own groups so that they’re not clumped in with the violence, shiftlessness, and “gibs me dat” of american blacks, that’s fine with me too.

      • LaFleur

        Considering stuff like the Azusa 13 case, I don’t understand why black people think a Latino majority/white minority is going to work in their favor. It makes about as much sense as Jews calling for more Muslims in Europe.

        CRTs are just out to lunch.

        • Wade in MO

          ” I don’t understand why black people think a Latino majority/white minority is going to work in their favor.”

          It doesn;t make any sense. I have had some wxperience with latinos (mostly mexicans, but a few carribeans) and the don’t fawn over blacks the way your average white liberal or neocon does. One of my firends told me of a cuban girl he used to work with who had a big round ass. When she first started working there a bunch of black guys came up to her and kept trying to talk to her. She kept answering them “Que? Que?” and acting like she didn’t understand them. Later she walked up to my friend and a coworker (both white) and started taking to them. She spoke english very well.

          I had another friend who had a Puerto Rican girlfriend who looked to be of mostly african ancestry. My friend was amazed by the things she would say to him about (american) blacks. She even went as far as to change roomates in her first year of college before she even moved in because she didn’t want to get caught up in “black girl problems” after finding out her assigned roomate was black.

          Blacks would be fools to want to displace whitey. This isn’t the Old South and blacks are better off here with whitey than most other groups of people in the world. I don’t see east asians, indians, or latinos wanting to give blacks entitlements that disadvantge them, and attacking whitey can only work so long…especially if whites grow a pair and fight back. I think if that if the jews saw that black set asides were no longer in their interests either, they’d abandon them too. Better the (white) devil you know, than the devil you don’t.

        • FG

          Many members of the new immigrant communities, not wanting their posterity to be swept into America’s outcast group, sense the need to distance themselves from American blacks. This is an especially difficult task for Caribbean Latinos, a large portion of whom display obvious African ancestry and are thus associated with “blackness” in the minds of many. Hence, they show disdain for the African American ethnicity (as opposed to all blacks) in a bid for acceptance into the social and cultural mainstream.

  7. Jason

    This can be resolved if whites just give in to black demands and create a new american identity based to nationality or religion instead of skin color. For example if whites decided to base ingroup/outgroup relations to be based on religion instead of race, blacks would support these efforts.

    • Hacienda

      “This can be resolved if whites just give in to black demands”

      What demands? Blacks are a ward class of the US as it is. The whole problem is that blacks have been a ward class of the US for so long, that blacks like you make comments like “whites should just give in to our demands”… like it’s perfectly natural, when looked at from another perspective, is impossibly childish. That’s a ward mentality.

  8. Jason

    Whites need to understand that if whites want to have No. 1 status in america than blacks should be No. 2. Until whites get it though their heads that blacks are more american than arabs and asians race relations would never improve.

    • Wade in MO

      “Whites need to understand that if whites want to have No. 1 status in america than blacks should be No. 2.”

      I’m begining to think that this guy is a troll. “No. 1 status” WTF? I don’;t know any white people who go around chanting “we’re number one” except the degenerates on sites like Stormfront. Most people I talk to about these type of things are just tired of the way blacks act and how they have excuses made for them. I think that opinions may be harsher here than out in California for various reasons. The main one being what has happened to St. Louis in the past few decades. My parents and people I know grew up either in St. Louis City or in certain inner ring suburbs. The pretty much say that the areas they grew up in have been largely ruined. Large parts of the area are extremely rundown with vacant lots and wrecked buildings. The school system has been ruined and St. Louis (city) is constantly ranked as one of the most violent cities in the US. I believe that the probably largely caused by blacks in the city are one of the main reasons for the awful suburban sprawl around the St. Louis area. People just don’t want to live around that shit.

      • Wade in MO

        “Until whites get it though their heads that blacks are more american than arabs and asians race relations would never improve”

        This guy is a joker. Whites don’t go around saying that blacks aren’t americans. The say blacks are more prone to being violent, disruptive, obnoxious, and are prone to epic chimpouts.

        This is guy either A) a troll or B) one of those hypersensitive blacks who thinks that fried chicken jokes lead to lynching.

        • Bay Area Guy

          Whites don’t go around saying that blacks aren’t americans. The say blacks are more prone to being violent, disruptive, obnoxious, and are prone to epic chimpouts.

          I agree. Whites do see blacks as Americans. They just don’t see blacks as their kind of Americans.

  9. Bay Area Guy

    This can be resolved if whites just give in to black demands

    Oh brother (or should that be brutha?). Yeah, well, fat chance for that. If current surveys and political trends are an indication of anything, it’s that whites are in no mood to give in to non-white (particularly black) demands.

    And while your desire to transcend race and create an identity based on nationality instead of race is noble, well, I’ll just say that the genie’s already out of the lamp.

    Race is here to stay.

    blacks are more american than arabs and asians

    That’s debatable.

    I know plenty of Asian Americans (and a smaller number of Middle Eastern Americans), and they speak standard American English just like white Americans, dress like white Americans, and aside from their overachieving academic ways (which in large part has to do with the selective immigration of their parents) and certain cultural differences, are not that radically different from whites.

    (though they are different, to be sure, just like all groups are different from one another)

    I feel more comfortable around/more solidarity with an Asian American, or even Asian immigrant, than I do a black American.

    • Wade in MO

      “blacks are more american than arabs and asians

      That’s debatable.”

      I disagree. Blacks are definitley americans. Being comfortable around someone is no substitute for history. I also don’t believe that whiteness should be a baseline for being american. If blacks want to dress like clowns with doo rags on their heads that’s fine. They just shouldn’t shoot other people or look for AA handouts while they’re doing it.

      • Bay Area Guy

        @ Wade

        Yes, I definitely acknowledge that they’re Americans. Still, they’re different Americans, and I don’t have a ton in common with them.

        I’ve never believed in American exceptionalism or the creedal nation anyway.

        • Wade in MO

          “I’ve never believed in American exceptionalism or the creedal nation anyway”

          Well, I don’t think blacks need the idea of a “creedal nation” to be american. They were brought here less than 2 decades after the whites in Virigina. They’ve been in some formerly french and dutch areas of the countries longer than english speaking whites. (with the exception of Obama’s ancestors)

          I don’t agree with the idea of a creedal nation, but that doesn’t mean I desire to make a totally homogenous state either. It would almost be impossible in today’s america. Besides, many states (note: states not nations) throughout history have been multiethnic with most having a dominant ethnic group, but some not as much. Having no dominant ethnic group can lead to big problems. I think that the attack on whites as a dominant group is what will hurt the US….unless the spot is filled by the jews, which is a definite possibility and has already happened to an extent.

          I don’t have a lot in common with most of them either. I don’t like being around them in large numbers. Then, even the decent blacks are normally pulled into ghetto behavior.

        • Bay Area Guy

          Having no dominant ethnic group can lead to big problems. I think that the attack on whites as a dominant group is what will hurt the US….unless the spot is filled by the jews, which is a definite possibility and has already happened to an extent.

          This country was at its best when whites were the large and dominant majority.

          I would add that the ideal situation is for the majority group to be dominant.

          Having Jews become THE dominant group will not bode well for this country. It will just replicate the problems of many Southeast Asian countries, where the Chinese, the Jews of Southeast Asia, basically dominate those countries’ economies despite being about 1% of the population.

          Having a situation where minorities control the money but the majority controls the guns is never good.

        • Gay State Girl

          I think Wade was implying that the growing resentment against Jews was a good thing.

        • Wade in MO

          “Having Jews become THE dominant group will not bode well for this country. It will just replicate the problems of many Southeast Asian countries, where the Chinese, the Jews of Southeast Asia, basically dominate those countries’ economies despite being about 1% of the population.”

          I totally agree that the jews being the dominant ethnic group would be absolutely horrible. It may be even worse than the chinese because everytime someone criticized them there would be a holocaust remembrance day to ward off the “New Antisemitism”. Personally, I really don’t give a shit about the holocaust. It wasn’t part of this countries history and there’s no need for a national holocaust memorial. Do we have a memorial dedicated to islamic conquests in India? No, and that’s about as relevant as the holocaust to american history.

          “Having a situation where minorities control the money but the majority controls the guns is never good.”

          A situation where the minoirty controls the money AND the guns can be even worse.

        • Wade in MO

          “I think Wade was implying that the growing resentment against Jews was a good thing”

          Actually, I was just stating the reality that the jews are a disproportionatley influential and are in the upper echelon of influential ethnic groups in the US. Is anyone really going to disagree with me on this?

        • Gay State Girl

          I didn’t take offense, I was just stating facts.

        • Bay Area Guy

          It may be even worse than the chinese because everytime someone criticized them there would be a holocaust remembrance day to ward off the “New Antisemitism”.

          True, native Filipinos, Malays, and Burmese at least don’t have to worry about being accused of “anti-Sinoism” whenever they denounce disproportionate Chinese power.

  10. uncle joe

    It is true that blacks are more American than Arabs and Asians. At the same time, Arabs and Asians are more HUMAN than blacks.

  11. Gay State Girl

    If we want to create a truly color blind society, we have to avoid talking about race period. But minorities and liberal whites like to talk about how “race matters” only when it’s on their terms.

  12. Hacienda

    “If we want to create a truly color blind society, we have to avoid talking about race period.”

    That’s not how sensory perception works. If I don’t talk about a car’s color, I’ll still see the color of the car. It’s a non-sequitor.

  13. Lookingforanswers

    Bay Area Guy, Wade in MO, Robert,

    How can an individual Black guy signal to Whites that he is not the “violent, disruptive, obnoxious, and are prone to epic chimpouts.” type as BAG put’s it?

    • Wade in MO

      Most white people know that most individual blacks do not have these characteristics in high degrees. The problems whites seem to have is blacks as an aggregate, not blacks as individuals. I’m not going to pretend that’s a nice thing to say or that it’s a good thing, but that is reality for most whites. Part of the reason is that around a lot of ghetto blacks, better blacks will take on some elements of their behavior as a part of peer pressure or from some identity crisis. I believe that the bigger issue is statistics though. Whites (and most people) will do what is safe. The truth is that most people perceive blacks as the main source (or disproportionate source) of violence in the US. There is definitley truth in that claim, even if not all blacks are criminals. It would seem safe, especially in certian situations, to avoid blacks, especially younger black males. Think of it like playing Russian Roulette with a six shooter. The first shot you have a 5/6 chance of living. If you’re the second shot you have a 4/5 chance of living. On the third you have a 3/4 chance of succedding. So you know that if you are in the first three shots (if it goes that far) you have a 75% or greater probablity of surviving. So, if I told you that you would be within the first three shots, would you play for 20$. The odds are in your favor. What if I increased the number of chambers to 10 and had you shoot first. That’s a 90% chance of surviving and getting 20 bucks for just pulling a trigger. Would you do it? Most people wouldn’t despite knowing that only one out of the bunch is dangerous. They are not worried about the empty chambers, but only the chance they may come across the one that is loaded. The same with blacks. Whites are not worried about most blacks, but just the dangrous portion, which seems to be a larger portion than that of other groups. The difference is that people are not bullets and judgements can be made. If a white knows a black well then they will most likely not be weary of them (unless they have a good reason). Also, people put off signals in their body behavior and other behaviors. Encountering a black guy on the street at night in a three piece suite or even causual “non-thug” clothing will not worry whites. Walking by a group of young black males wearing “thuggish” clothing is a different story. I think much of what people think is based on this type of primitive statistical thinking rather than some abstract reasoning or anything else. It’s all part of the old saying “better safe than sorry”.

      I don’t know about BAG, but I’ve lived around a lot of blacks for most of my life and I have not had too many problems. In my school days, I don’t ever remember seeing a multiracial fistfight, except for the small one I was involved in in middle school and that guy was mixed and hung out with almost all whites at school…so it doesn’t “count” as much. It seems most racial groups, unless it’s a criminal type assault, stay in their own groups with their problems here.

      As far as being obnoxious and having chimpouts, I don’t think there’s really anything that can be done. Having been exposed to my share of whtie trash in my life, I know there are a large amount of whites who act pretty much like, or worse, that the most ghetto blacks. However, no one really wants to thinks this about themselves. Blacks do chimpout more though. That’s just reality. That’s why it’s much funner to watch black fights than white fights. Things may get better for blacks in the future though as more whites get pissed at each other and start to think negatively about other whites. Liberal self-righteous obnoxiouness has been hated for years, but the Tea Party has broght out a previously under-tapped ocean of dickheads for everyone to see. White obnoxiousness is starting to reveal its face more, even to other whites.

      Sorry for the oversized, rambling post.

      • Lookingforanswers

        I guess I’m trying to figure out what I can do as a Black individual to better succeed in this country’s White power structure. I can’t change that structure or other Blacks behaving badly so all I can do is try to manage the perception of me as an individual in the eyes of Whites. Any advice on that would be welcomed.

        • Wade in MO

          “I guess I’m trying to figure out what I can do as a Black individual to better succeed in this country’s White power structure”

          Just act friendly and try not to be intimidating. Also, avoid obvious ghetto links like naming a child something like Deshauntavious. Most whites don’t hate black people they know. I don’t have a problem with the black guy across the street from me, but I still don’t want to spend any time across the river in East St. Louis.

          I’m always mysitified by terms like “white power structure”. I think most whites are. I’ll grant that among the people with influence, most are white, but most whites are not included in that group. I’m certainly not. It’s annoying to hear about. Sort of like how jews look when I ask them to put Star Trek on more often. I know every jew does not own a television station or a movie country, but I would hope they could ask their uncle who does to make the change for me. More tellers at the bank might save some time too. (Hint, hint Gay State Girl)

          Unless you’re an ass or have some serious character defect, most whites will not judge you as harsh as you think once they know you a bit.

          But you can give up on stopping whites from watching black fight videos or making fried chickien jokes. (though they probably won’t do either whitle you’re around) That stuff is just too funny.

        • Bay Area Guy

          I’ll grant that among the people with influence, most are white, but most whites are not included in that group

          Also, many if not most whites with power/influence do not give a shit about the average white person on the ground. In fact, they often backstab their fellow whites.

          It’s as if CRT’s think that Bill Gates or the white guy in charge of a big corporation really give a crap about the average white person on the street.

  14. Bay Area Guy

    How can an individual Black guy signal to Whites that he is not the “violent, disruptive, obnoxious, and are prone to epic chimpouts.” type as BAG put’s it?

    Well, first of all, that was Wade who said that, not me. But hey, no biggie.

    But anyway, to answer your question. A lot of it has to do with the way a black person conveys himself. If a black person is speaking with a heavy black accent, speaking improper English (ie. he don’t, you was, etc), or wearing baggy/hip hop clothing, that will always make white people uneasy.

    I think the way black people speak/carry themselves rubs many white people the wrong way, to the point where blacks can come across as rough and obnoxious even when they don’t mean to.

    It’s hard to say what exactly to do. I just listed what not to do. I don’t think that blacks have to behave like stereotypical preppy whites.

    They just don’t want to signal that they’re a DeShawn from Oakland.

    • Bay Area Guy

      Oh, that reminds me.

      Stupid black names like DeQuan and LaMarcus have got to go. I mean, if you’re a parent giving your kid a name like that, you might as well slap a sign on their back saying, “I’m an uneducated, potentially problematic black person, who likely speaks with a ghetto accent.”

    • Wade in MO

      “Well, first of all, that was Wade who said that, not me”

      All crackers look the same honkey.

      • Bay Area Guy

        All crackers look the same honkey.

        Oh right, I almost forgot.

        That would also include Castrated Crackers.

    • Lookingforanswers

      “If a black person is speaking with a heavy black accent, speaking improper English (ie. he don’t, you was, etc), or wearing baggy/hip hop clothing, that will always make white people uneasy.”

      What in your view is a heavy Black accent? I know I don’t do the other stuff.

      I’ve found that Whites relax a little when Blacks flash a smile (without showing teeth) when they walk into a room. I think it may signal “I’m the friendly type”. Am I right? Are there any other things like that?

      • Bay Area Guy

        Basically, you don’t want to come across as a threat or potential irritant.

        So yes, smiling definitely helps. Conveying an overall cheerful demeanor is also good.

        The discomfort many whites feel around blacks has much to do with the perception that black people are a bunch of angry grievance merchants just waiting to go off on them. Many see blacks as potential headcases and ticking racial time bombs.

        Somehow conveying, one way or another, that you’re not the type of black person to cry racism or be hypersensitive will help.

        Or, to put it more offensively, “I sho nuff ain’t gon’ cause no problems.”

  15. Jason

    The problem is that a sizable number of white americans refuse to accept that their real enemies reside overseas in places such as the mideast, Iran, Russia and the PRC. The hypocrisy of whites critizing blacks who fought in every american war, while blatantly favoring immigrants many of whom are from countries and peoples that are traditional enemies of america, is obvious.

    • Bay Area Guy

      The problem is that a sizable number of white americans refuse to accept that their real enemies reside overseas in places such as the mideast, Iran, Russia and the PRC

      The real enemies reside in places like Iran? Oh god, you’re starting to sound like a neocon.

      • Lookingforanswers

        I think what whites don’t realize is that the main enemies to this country are multi-national corporations influencing politics and shifting jobs across seas, not blacks.

      • Jason

        You do Know that Russia and China over the past decade has formed an alliance called the Shanghai Cooperation Organization? That alliance is explicitly to counter western influence.

        • Wade in MO

          “That alliance is explicitly to counter western influence.”

          …..IN ASIA. I have no problem with that. The US has negative plans for asia since the government sees many asia countries as potential economic competitors. Personally, seeing the US out of many of these places would be A-OK with me.

    • Wade in MO

      No white person thinks that blacks pose a possible military threat to the US like China. By the same token, people don’t expect to be mugged downtown by the People’s Liberation Army.

  16. Jason

    When 9/11 happened blacks joined the crusade to beat back the terrorists. Many whites however, not wanting to abandon their racism, claimed that jews did 9/11, despite the evidence being as clear as a bell that islamic terrorists were responsible, some white nationalists even celebrated the attacks. When OBL was killed online racists howled with rage at the same time tens of thousands of americans spontaniously gathered in cities across the country to celebrate or to show closure regarding 9/11.

    • Wade in MO

      I think your off here. I think the reason that a lot of people “howled with rage” when OBL died is becuase they felt that his death was going to be used as a rallying tool to support continuing imperial wars in the muslim world and elsewhere. I don’t remeber a lot of people celebrating 9/11 (even though I wasn’t on the net much back then). I think many just thought it was a natural blowback from US foreing policy and to a lesser degree US immigration policy.

    • Bay Area Guy

      Many whites however, not wanting to abandon their racism, claimed that jews did 9/11

      WTF?!

      That’s a major strawman on your part. Seriously, besides a few fringe white nationalists and far leftist conspiracy theorists, how many white people were actually claiming that the Jews did 9/11?

      Most whites simply aren’t into 9/11 trutherism.

  17. Jason

    Most of black opposition ton the GOP is due to racist elements in the party influencing republican social policy. Many Blacks actually support america projecting its power abroad.

  18. American Blacks and latin americans and american whites. YOUR ALL QUITE PATHETIC. In europe sure there are problems with race etc but the way you americans portray the problems as being absolute is sad. I’ve been a victim of white racism countless time over here but i don’t hold grudges against the entire race. The same with whites and asians ove here to. I have a mixed bag of friends of all sorts who have been victims of racism countless times but don’t mope, moan and cry about it the way americans do.

  19. Jason

    The problem is that racists dont want large percentages of blacks to be middle-class americans who aspire to education, employment and entrepreneurship. They dont want a standard english speaking black population. Racists deliberately encourage the rappers and hustlers to exploit the everyday african-american. The result of this is that high achieving blacks are considered “oreos” and “race traitors” by ghetto thugs. These ghetto thus are often directly and indirectly supported by white racist influence in order to weaken the black community.

    • LaFleur

      The problem is…

      You got a million of ‘em, eh?

      They dont want a standard english speaking black population.

      I hate to break this to you, but it’s often blacks themselves who claim that expecting black kids to speak standard English is racist.

      See the Seattle Public Schools brouhaha involving Caprice Hollins, head of the Office of Equity and Race Relations:

      Those aspects of society that overtly and covertly attribute value and normality to white people and Whiteness, and devalue, stereotype, and label people of color as “other”, different, less than, or render them invisible. Examples of these norms include defining white skin tones as nude or flesh colored, having a future time orientation, emphasizing individualism as opposed to a more collective ideology, defining one form of English as standard, and identifying only Whites as great writers or composers.

      In other words, long-term planning and speaking proper English are white people stuff.

      Racists deliberately encourage the rappers and hustlers to exploit the everyday african-american.

      The MSM is controlled by a very small number of people. Not only does the average white person not get a say in its content, poor and working white people are routinely ridiculed in ways no longer considered acceptable for other groups:

      http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/tag/trailer-trash/

      Somehow I don’t think Mr. Goldman would have the nerve to draw “Ghetto Trash”.

      Maybe not watching the boob tube 7 hours a day would help. I’m no genius, but I’m sick enough of MSM garbage that I find other things to do. Nobody forces you to be a mindless consumer. It amazes me how much time websites from Jezebel to Racialicious spend bitching about pop culture garbage. It IS garbage. Entertainment is not a right. People used to have to entertain themselves.

      • LaFleur

        I should add that all Americans should wake up and stop sucking on the MSM teat, not just black people. With the internet, libraries, and cheap technology, there is no excuse for Americans to continue to be so passive.

        • Bay Area Guy

          and label people of color as “other”, different

          Well, they ARE different, though their mileage obviously varies.

          Also, I find this amusing for another reason.

          These same CRT’s who complain about whites seeing non-whites as the other/different then get their panties in a wad whenever white people try to be colorblind, because they’re “devaluing the experiences of people of color,” allowing themselves to be “comfortable in their racism” by ignoring the unique experiences of non-whites, etc.

          I recall watching Jared Taylor debate a Hispanic woman on Russia Today a while back, where the Hispanic woman basically said that if you’re a white person, you always have to acknowledge a non-white person’s racial background “as a matter of respect.”

          And yet at the same time, they then complain about white people othering them when we do see them as different/take into account their racial background.

          They want to have their cake and eat it too. On the one hand, they want us to not judge them negatively on account of their race/treat them as individuals, and yet they also want some type of racial affirmation.

          Well, sorry, if you’re going to identify with your race, then you’re going get the whole package, good and bad.

          This is certainly true for many black activist types. Ditto for Hispanic, Asian American, and Jewish activists.

          I would also add gays to the list. They don’t want to be discriminated against for being gay/want to be treated as individuals/human beings, and yet at the same time shove their flamboyant gay pride parades in our face.

          You see this kind of duality in almost all minority groups. But as Asian American writer Eric Liu once pointed out in an old Slate article, this duality cuts both ways. Sooner or later, you can’t have your cake and eat it too.

        • Wade in MO

          “On the one hand, they want us to not judge them negatively on account of their race/treat them as individuals, and yet they also want some type of racial affirmation. ”

          Reminds me of something I read a while back on Chimpout reversing a MLK line: “If we judged blacks by the content of their character, then they would be begging us to judge them by the color of their skin.”

          A bit harsh…

        • Hacienda

          ‘Reminds me of something I read a while back on Chimpout reversing a MLK line: “If we judged blacks by the content of their character, then they would be begging us to judge them by the color of their skin.” ‘

          Something most non-blacks do already. It’s more objective and actually is a far more tolerant way of judging blacks. MLK’s screech is Christian lunacy. “Character”. Holy Shit. WN’s aren’t savvy enough to keep up with the times.

  20. Dota

    “How can an individual Black guy signal to Whites that he is not the “violent, disruptive, obnoxious, and are prone to epic chimpouts.” type as BAG put’s it? ”

    Education also helps. I’ve got an undergrad in Business Admin. From personal experiance, whites have always been comfortable around me because like most South Asians, I look like a nerd and also dress like one (glasses and a formal shirt always, never T-Shirts). Nerd = non threatening regardless of the nerd’s ethnicity.

    • Bay Area Guy

      Nerd = non threatening regardless of the nerd’s ethnicity.

      Indeed. As much as “nerd” may be an epithet at times, and as much as they can be mocked, deep down inside there’s a bit of respect for nerds.

      Nobody worries about a nerd starting a fight or being belligerent.

      People also see nerds as hard working and intelligent, the type of person you can trust to get things done.

      • Wade in MO

        “deep down inside there’s a bit of respect for nerds.

        Nobody worries about a nerd starting a fight or being belligerent”

        That’s like saying that there’s a bit of respect for impotent men because women don’t worry about being raped by them.

    • Bay Area Guy

      What do you guys make of this paper?

      I see it as a bunch of CRT garbage. Canada is very much a white/western country, in my opinion. In terms of language, heritage, institutions, and demography (though like the U.S, that has changed dramatically lately).

      To me, the whole term “white privilege” is bunk. It’s funny how “privilege” only seems to be used in a Western context. You don’t even hear the term “privilege” being used to describe Jewish dominance in Israel, despite the fact that they’re “privileged” in the truest sense of the term.

      Whenever I hear the term “white privilege,” I just tune out. And really, who can blame me?

      • Bay Area Guy

        Of course, I know that you’re a Canadian citizen, so it wasn’t my intention to offend you or say “you’re not really Canadian” when I pointed out that I conceived of Canada as a white country.

        The fact of the matter is that white countries are for everyone now. Even traditional European countries are being told that they’re no longer allowed to define their nationality in ethnic terms, and that Abdullah is just as much of a Brit as Walter Smith.

        This whole creedal nation BS is only applied to white/Western countries.

        Northeast Asian countries don’t see things the same way, and very much define their nationality in terms of ethnicity. Maybe that’s one of the reasons why they’re rapidly eclipsing us.

        Sorry for the rant, Dota, but I get worked up whenever I read anything CRT related.

        It’s simply a fact that white identity (as well as indigenous European identity without any explicit white consciousness) and Western civilization is under siege worldwide.

        • Hacienda

          “Northeast Asian countries don’t see things the same way, and very much define their nationality in terms of ethnicity. ”

          As does India, the Middle East, Africa, all populations of non-settling, non-colonizing countries. Whites are different because whites are colonizing, mechanizing, and yet also depopulating. When whites stop colonizing, mechanizing, and creating island offensive platforms, then the world will accept white states based on ethnicity. Until then, what do you expect? Seriously, what would you expect?

        • Wade in MO

          “When whites stop colonizing, mechanizing, and creating island offensive platforms, then the world will accept white states based on ethnicity.”

          That might be beliveable except that we see the same types of things occuring in in countries that were never imperial, or at least not for very long like Sweden, Poland, Norway, Ireland, etc. Even countries who haven’t been colonizers in any signifigant way for a long while (ex spain) or whose damage was largely done in Europe (Germany) are being affected by this. Also, non-white countries that have been, and are, imperial get off without anything happening (ex Turkey). Of course the idea that non-whites have their own imperial hisotries never seems to register either. I think the whole claim is BS. These “anti-racists” are composed of a few true-believers surrounded by a bunch of opportunists.

        • Wade in MO

          “As does India, the Middle East, Africa, all populations of non-settling, non-colonizing countries”

          Last time I checked, many of the problems in Africa are caused by group friction specifically because most states aren’t based on anything but old colonial borders. I don’t know the degree that each could be called ethonostates, at least south of the Sahara. I believe something similar could be said for Iraq.

        • LaFleur

          One wonders who wins the All Time Colonialism Death Toll Sweepstakes: Europeans or Muslims?

        • LaFleur

          Also, non-white countries that have been, and are, imperial get off without anything happening (ex Turkey).

          Considering Turkey’s history of aggression in Europe, and its decimation of its Christian and Jewish populations, it does frost one, doesn’t it? But the idiot “antiracists” act like they’re all noble colored folks.

        • LaFleur

          We’ve already discussed here what a joke it is to claim that Asians and Muslims are not colonizers.

          No matter. When I started seeing affluent minorities engaging in Tim Wise-esque dissembling and shameless ethnocentrism, rewriting their own histories and cloaking their will to power in social justice bullshit, I was done with white guilt. The elites who indoctrinate Europeans with white guilt are the same ones who wanted the Turks of all people to join the EU.

          Laissez les bon temps roulez.

        • Hacienda

          “Laissez les bon temps roulez.”

          The good times are here. It’s gonna be fun watching rest of the US turn into California as I age.

        • Hacienda

          “Last time I checked, many of the problems in Africa are caused by group friction specifically because most states aren’t based on anything but old colonial borders. ”

          That’s the old rubarb about post-colonial Africa. Was pre-colonial Africa more peaceful? Hard to tell, there no statisticians of these things. But we do know that jungle tribals have a lifespan of what? 20? Which is not really a bad age to die, btw.

        • Hacienda

          “We’ve already discussed here what a joke it is to claim that Asians and Muslims are not colonizers.”

          I’m not talking about something that happened 700 years ago. And its seems to me that Mongoloids have paid a heavy price for their imperial ways. Mongolia after Khan remained a slaughterhouse for centuries, until the Manchus brought some order to Mongolia. And in turn the Russians made good work of the Manchus. And the Russians in turn are getting their Slavic just deserts in Siberia as we speak, baby.

        • Wade in MO

          ” And the Russians in turn are getting their Slavic just deserts in Siberia as we speak, baby.”

          Yeah, I don’t really see much of a problem here. If China every tried to grab for Siberia they would end up as a nuclear crater if Russia felt it necessary. That or the Russian would just beat them conventionally. Their main ethnic problems seem to come from Central Asia
          and the Caucasus. I don’t see Kazakstan being able to do anything to Russia, and Caucasus are going to be “freed” without out a major war involving outsiders.

        • Hacienda

          “If China every tried to grab for Siberia they would end up as a nuclear crater if Russia felt it necessary. ”

          We’ll have to see, Wade. I note that you have no problem imagining mass genocide of Chinese. Noted.

        • Wade in MO

          “We’ll have to see, Wade. I note that you have no problem imagining mass genocide of Chinese. Noted.”

          LOL Talk about reading something into something that’s not there. Just saying what I think would happen. I didn’t say it was a great thing. Besides, I see you have no problem ethnically cleansing Russians from parts of Russia. Noted.

        • Hacienda

          “Besides, I see you have no problem ethnically cleansing Russians from parts of Russia. Noted.”

          I never said Siberia belonged to the Chinese in first place, kid. Eurasia’s an evolving polity, we’ll see how it all shakes out. And, no, if it makes you feel better, I don’t believe in ethnic cleansing.

    • Wade in MO

      From the paper:
      “One way that white privilege is maintained is through the construction of stereotypes of people of colour. Generally these stereotypes are different from ideas of a normal Canadian and depict negative images. Examples of this include those of Natives as alcoholics and lazy; of Chinese as treacherous; etc. The overall effect is to infer that whiteness is goodness”

      This is the kind of shit that pisses me off. Does this author really think that a group of people stereo styping other groups of people is really anything new or unique?

      • Hacienda

        “That might be beliveable except that we see the same types of things occuring in in countries that were never imperial, or at least not for very long like Sweden, Poland, Norway, Ireland, etc. ”

        The price they paid for joining the EU. Regardless, Swedes, Poles, Norwegians, Irish were deeply part of the colonial process. Scandinavians in particular like to boast their world best per capita incomes and standard of living. Unlike say Albanians. And they maintain they’re ethnic identity well.

        Also, BAG is just factually wrong. Korea doesn’t see itself as a super ethnic state. There is a large SE Asian immigrant population. Also smattering of Turks, Russians, blacks, etc. who experience little racial antagonism, but who surely deserve some more of it, given that Russians are deeply into organized crime in Korea, and the blacks (and whites) as always are mighty concerned about the fair share of Korean pussy they get. And it’s fairly easy to establish residence there, if not citizenship. All you need is some special technical expertise or not great amount of investment money.

        Korea’s definitely changing. In some ways it’s culturally far in advance of the West and deserves the right to protect those assets to the extent they derive from the ethnic makeup of Korea. Korea does replace the losers regardless of ethnicity, it’s a pretty damn natural selective place.

        • Wade in MO

          “The price they paid for joining the EU.”

          This is just you making bullshit up. Whatever they do, you’ll just make up some garbage about it being bad. Oh well.

          ” Regardless, Swedes, Poles, Norwegians, Irish were deeply part of the colonial process.”

          How so. Both the Irish and the Poles had their independence taken from them. Saying that they were involved in it because they were conquered by states involved in to is like saying that the Comanches are reponsible for the Iraq War. Norway was not always independent either. Sweden’s overseas empire was a joke and really wasn’t around that long.

          Would you say that China was invovled in european imperialism because it took a huge amount of silver from spanish america via the Phillipines?

          ” Scandinavians in particular like to boast their world best per capita incomes and standard of living.”

          What’s your point? Are you saying having a productive society is a form of imperialism? Japan has a high standard of living too, but unlike Japan, Sweden wasn’t so imperialist that it’s neighbors would oppose having consitiuationally imposed limits on its military lifted. We’re talking about Sweden for christs sake. Ever heard of Gunnar Myrdal?

          ” Unlike say Albanians. And they maintain they’re ethnic identity well”

          LOL That is a ridiculous thing to say.

        • Hacienda

          ” Unlike say Albanians. And they maintain they’re ethnic identity well”

          LOL That is a ridiculous thing to say.
          ————————

          How so? The EU is the main reason previously white countries are now getting mass non-white immigration. What’s ridiculous about this?

        • Wade in MO

          “How so? The EU is the main reason previously white countries are now getting mass non-white immigration. What’s ridiculous about this?”

          I misinterpreted your statement. I thought that yoiu meant that some how Sweden or Ireland deseved these immigrants becuase joing the EU somehow made them imperialist. BTW, Norway is not an EU country. It’s just a state that has a lot of oil and a small populace. They also have immigrant problems though. And Albania is a horrible example. No one wants to live in Albania because it’s probably the dumpiest country in Europe. that’s why Albanians move other places….and take their mafia with them.

        • Hacienda

          “This is just you making bullshit up. Whatever they do, you’ll just make up some garbage about it being bad. Oh well.”

          No, you jumped into the thread without looking at the premises of the discussion. So it looks nonsensical to you. Just go back and figure it out.

  21. uncle joe

    @Wade
    Turkey is not white? I thought they were Mediterranean Caucasoid?
    And I agree that Germany, Poland, etc. shouldn’t be flooded with racial aliens. However, I cannot sympathize with Anglo countried being flooded with whoever they colonized. Anglos fucked themselves over with no help from others (except kikes of course) and they did plenty of damage to others in the process. Fuck ‘em.

    • Wade in MO

      “Turkey is not white? ”

      Yes, in the biological way, Turks are caucasoid, but then so are arabs, iranians, etc. It may be more correct to say that they’re non-eurpean caucasoids (for the most part). The earlier ruling class many have been more mongoloid, depending on how mixed the turks were back then.

  22. uncle joe

    @LaFleur
    The Ottoman Empire was actually philo-Semitic. They were given protections and privileges as a mercantile commercial class. You’re right about the Christian part though.

  23. Dota

    @ BaG

    No I’m not offended in any way; I’ve just given up trying to be ‘Canadian’ because the word has no meaning whatsoever. I can’t fully relate to Whites for obvious reasons but I can’t seem to relate to South Asians either, so I’m stuck in between 2 worlds. I agree with you that Euro states should define their national character along the lines of ethnicity but the same does not neccecarily apply to North American states, as they are ‘settler’ states. Having said this, I still feel that we are better of with whites being the majority. If canada was given to the east Indians, they would run it into the ground. Also, if you read the paper I linked above, did you notice that one of the references was a ‘Weiss’. Guess who :D

  24. Uncle Milton

    Hacienda,

    Regardless, Swedes, Poles, Norwegians, Irish were deeply part of the colonial process. Scandinavians in particular like to boast their world best per capita incomes and standard of living.

    Only Sweden was a colonizer both in Europe and overseas but they exited their last holding overseas holding (an island in the Carribean..) 130 years ago. Norway,Ireland, Poland, Finland, Hungary, the Czech and Slovak Republics, and Bulgaria were never colonizers but were dominated by more powerful countries for many years. As for assertion that Muslims and Asians haven;t colonized for 700 years… are you forgetting the Japanese Imperial Army and the colonization of Korea, Taiwan, parts of China, Vietnam, etc…in the early to mid 20th century…? The Ottoman empire ruled much of Southeastern Europe for hundreds of years and didn’t completely lose it’s hold until WW!.

    I would agree that the US effectively has colonies with Britain generally along for the ride.

  25. Uncle Milton

    To Hacienda,

    When whites stop colonizing, mechanizing, and creating island offensive platforms…

    Can you elaborate on this…? About the only “White” country that is a colonizer (and not in the traditional sense but certainly through influence… ) is the US. Ok maybe Britain will toss their hat in the ring on occasion with the US.

    What do you mean by “mechanizing..”?

    • LaFleur

      He’s reducing everything to a “white/nonwhite dichotomy” as Jason has. This is what the neoliberal fake left has been aiming toward for the past 40 years. It doesn’t matter if you are from bleakest Eastern Europe or the US – you’re white and therefore the oppressor. This is why it’s a joke for people like Robert Jensen to talk about how white people should define themselves. It has no effect on how others define us.

      • Hacienda

        “you’re white and therefore the oppressor.”

        When did I say whites were oppressors? Where, babe, where?

  26. Hacienda

    “What do you mean by “mechanizing..”?”

    I’m taking time out of my money making activities to respond here UM. As you well know, part of the fun of the internet is wondering whether the person you are replying to actually swallows the crap your spewing. And whether he actually believes he is shitting gold, and not what is always evacuated from him.

    Mostly since BAG believes whitey invented all of modernity, he should complete the logic that modernity is all about mechanization, at least for the average Western dimwit. So that’s what I meant. The mechanized portion of modernity.

    • mott 69

      Whitey actually did invent modernity. It’s not just mechanization. It’s sanitation, medicine, scientific approach in general.

      It’s also secularism, egalitarianism and democratic political processes.

      Arabs and Chinese had made advances in some of these areas but stopped progressing for whatever reasons…

      So, Western “modernity” comes out of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, and the Industrial Revolution.

      C’mon trolls- disagree w/me!

      • uncle joe

        Egalitarianism and democrapic political processes are mental AIDs.
        Secularism can be good or bad, depending on how its used.
        In a European context, I prefer continental autocratic political traditions and cultures over Judaicized Anglo liberalism.

        • mott 69

          Thank you, Hacienda and Uncle Joe, for once again proving Western superiority better than I ever could!
          U.J.- If you “prefer” autocracy you are deranged- and you are inferior.

      • Hacienda

        mott69,

        You autistic retard.

        • mott 69

          I’m “artistic”- you obviously misread my resume.

          To which I can now add: “I HAVE BEEN CALLED A RETARD BY A RETARD”.

          Not responding to you puppy-chowing fish heads anymore! (/:=) Sieg Heil!

      • Wade in MO

        “So, Western “modernity” comes out of the Renaissance and Enlightenment, and the Industrial Revolution.

        C’mon trolls- disagree w/me!”

        Actually, I will disagree. What is called “modern civilization” in western europe actually started earlier than the renaissance. Many discoveries from the middle ages were the basis of later discoveries. For example, in his book “Two New Sciences” Galileo uses a graphing techinique created by a medieval bishop (Nicole Oresme) to prove the Mean Speed Theroem, which was discovered by a group of medieval monks known as the Oxford Calculators. It was also in this period where the first real universities in Western Europe (or anywhere to my knowledge) were begining to form.

        Of course not all of what we call modern civilization started here. The periods you listed obviously made contributions, but we cannot ignore the Middle Ages in looking into the origins of modern civilization, especially from about 1100 on.

      • Wade in MO

        “Arabs and Chinese had made advances in some of these areas but stopped progressing for whatever reasons”

        I’ve heard some people say that the Chinese were able to keep up with the West at least until the 18th century. Of course many technological innovations came from there. I read a while back that Chinese immigrants were important in founding the steel industry in parts of the US. Not as mere laborers, but as people brought in for their technical expertise in certain processes. I can’t remember all the details right now though.

        The muslims were important as you said. Earlier western scientists (in the middle ages, the renaissance, and even early in the scientific revolution) look to muslims more than your average neocon would like to admit. Some muslim countries aren’t totally bad today. From what I’ve heard, Iran and Turkey are especially important in islamic science. They are also important as scientific immigrants to other countries. I remeber reading a few years back, that Iraq was starting to develop scientifically too before sanctions really began to hurt them.

        I think that a large part of the decline of Asia had to do with trades routes shifting from overland “silk road” routes to littoral oceanic routes.

        It would see that some countries modernized without the traits you listed too. Imperial Japan would be one. Pre WWI german speaking empires were developing differently too. And many of the countries we call modern, while democratic, are monarchies (UK, Netherlands, etc)

        • mott 69

          Yes. The Chinese stopped at the Industrial Revolution. They missed the boat. Unfortunately for them, the Industrial Revolution is easily half of what makes up Modernity. They also lack democracy- another huge blow which renders them more backward. They are also culturally reactionary in the same way religious zealots are: they ban Modern Art, Rock Music, books, all kinds of “new” or “Western” stuff. And yes, that does hold them back even more, just like the Arab/Muslim countries. Their anti-Westernism amounts to a backwards religion that keeps them way behind the West.

          Japan- They embarked on a 19th cen.modernization campaign to copy the West- specifically Britain (and Germany).

          The roots of Democracy are in Constitutional Monarchies- like the U.K. and Netherlands. The two are not incompatible at all, in fact the highest living standards are in Constitutional Monarchies- WHICH ARE’NT MONARCHIES ANYMORE!

          Pre WWI German empires? Wot? That’s the West, too.

        • Wade in MO

          “Pre WWI German empires? Wot? That’s the West, too.”

          The pre-WWI german empires do not fit your criteria of being democratic. Many early modern states were not demodratic and were famous for absolutist rulers (Louis XVI, Frederick the Great, etc..) Prussia was certainly democratic and was seen by many outsiders as being quite militant.

        • mott 69

          You misunderstood. I didn’t say that all Modern, Western societies have been democracies.

          Most have been, though- and I mean democratic in comparision to the East. And- even a Napoleon was an improvement over absolute monarchy.

          WW II Germany and Japan were notably undemocratic while still being ultra-Modern. Fascist autocracy is an anti-Western chacteristic that these Westernized countries unfortunately shared.

        • uncle joe

          @mott
          It’s an error on your part to assume that democracy represents true Western culture. Fascist autocracy is just as much a European phenomenon as Anglo liberalism is, just as India represented a more liberal version of Asiatic civilizaiton compared to, say, China.

        • mott 69

          I’m not making an error, Josef.
          Democracy, with all its flaws, comes from the West, not the East.
          Liberalism, secularism, capitalism (unfortunately?), all Western stuff.
          Yeah, it’s polluted by Jewiness. Still preferable to absolute dictatorships.
          Its called a step up.

          Further, I don’t think that every democratic nation is infested by corrupt media and Jewish-style capitalism like the U.S.

          India is liberal? Backward chaos is more like it.

          Have you been eating the green fuzzy Ramen again?

  27. Jason

    The notion that countries like Iran and China are part of the west is insane delusional nonsense. The west has always been understood as europe and the countries of the americans all of whom are ultimately derived from former european colonies.

  28. Bay Area Guy

    Swedes, Poles, Norwegians, Irish were deeply part of the colonial process.

    Absolute bullshit. Seriously, learn some history, Hacienda.

    Have you forgotten the little part about how Ireland was itself a long abused British colony, or how Poland was Russia’s bitch for quite some time? Besides one colony, St. Bartholomew in the Caribbean, Sweden was not a colonial power.

    And yes, whitey very much invented modernity.

    And yes, Korea is very much an ethnonationalist nation. Certainly more so than any Western country. If not, prove me wrong. Ever hear the term “mixed blood?”

    Korea imports SE Asian immigrants only because Korean men in rural areas can’t get laid, so they get mail order brides (many of whom are Vietnamese).

    Besides, Koreans and Vietnamese/other Asians have a lot more in common than whites and Pakistanis or Africans.

    • Hacienda

      “Absolute bullshit. Seriously, learn some history, Hacienda.”
      UM, BAG

      Both of you need text interpretation lessons. Reread what I wrote. I didn’t say each group were principle colonists. Ireland did not hold colonies themselves, but the Irish did in fact immigrate into the colonies during times of their expansion and operate as settlers within the colonies. As did Swedes, Poles, Norwegians. Each and every one of these groups. Swedes and Norwegians in Minnesota for starters. There were many Polish setters in the west post (pre?) Civil War. I’d have to research that. And no, none of this nonsense about the Irish were so downtrodden and poor-mouthed by “real”whites, LOL, that Irish can’t be considered autonomous.

      • Wade in MO

        “As did Swedes, Poles, Norwegians. Each and every one of these groups”

        I guess you’re proof that Korea is a north american colonizer then.

        • Hacienda

          “I guess you’re proof that Korea is a north american colonizer then.”

          I can’t disagree with this. Koreans are an updated colonizing force. But like the stock market, it’s only in hindsight you can really tell who were the colonizers.

          I don’t think story of WASP colonization is complete. I don’t think it was all evil either.

    • Hacienda

      “Korea imports SE Asian immigrants only because Korean men in rural areas can’t get laid, so they get mail order brides (many of whom are Vietnamese).”

      Wrong again BAG. Most immigration into Korea is not marriage related. It’s a small percentage of the overall immigrant mix. It’s mostly work related. You’ve picked up on the sensational, ignoring the sensible part again.

    • mott 69

      Is Hacienda the one that equates groups who immigrate to the Americas to escape lousy conditions with the original imperialist/colonist dominant groups? THAT’S INSANE!

      The Poles, or the Irish, and other later immigrants are not equivalent to the English colonists, The Founding Fathers, or the Conquistadors.

      Why? Just because they all came to the New World, to the detriment of the natives? THAT’S NUTS!

      • Hacienda

        mott 69,

        Don’t oversimplify and don’t be an asshole. The readers here tend to see through it.

        • mott 69

          Which is why “the readers here” think you said something stupid.

          I was quoting you almost verbatim. You were the one who was guilty of oversimplification.

          And, I’m not an asshole, although I unfortunately correspond with
          assholes on a regular basis (not naming names here).

          Admit you said something dumb and get over it. I’ve made factual errors myself in the past. Not such a big deal.

          I admit that I am no expert on Eastern Civilization. From your comments you are no authority on Western Civ. Admit it.

          And admit that your hatred of Whites lies behind all of your comments, skewing your perspective to the point that it can’t be trusted.

        • Hacienda

          “Which is why “the readers here” think you said something stupid.
          And, I’m not an asshole…
          And admit that your hatred of Whites lies behind all of your comments, skewing your perspective to the point that it can’t be trusted.”

          Aside from whatever my motivations might be (and I don’t really know what all my motivations are) you are welcome to not trust me. I never asked for anyone’s trust here. But, postings here are fast and informal. You obviously have not followed the core track of my reply to BAG’s original post. Wade corrected himself partially to his credit. He’s a fairly careful reader and responder. You OTOH. LOL. Didn’t you say you were done replying to fishheads? Let’s keep it that way. You’re annoying as a fucking a lame prostitute.

        • mott 69

          Listen here you zipper-head needle dick slope- I reserve the right to respond to fish heads who are desparately trying to get in the last word.

          I followed your post. Wade is nit-picky to the point of absurdity. But he makes a good point on a regular basis.

          You, on the other hand are a dim-witted prick. Fuck You.

          BTW- What’s so annoying about a “lame prostitute”? Sounds like my ideal woman! You’re command of the English language is too lacking for you to be taking a stab at complex insults. Give it up!

        • Hacienda

          “zipper-head needle dick slope-”

          Ouch. Not. LOL. More please.

        • mott 69

          Outta bullets.

          I’m just trying to be funny- let’s call it a day! (/:=))

        • Hacienda

          “I’m just trying to be funny- let’s call it a day! (/:=))”

          Let’s. I’ve had LOLs for the evening. I mean that. LOL.

  29. Bay Area Guy

    And yes, to other commenters above, the fact that Turkey gets off the hook for all of its crimes is quite infuriating.

    Besides the Armenian genocide and other massacres of non-Turkish Christians, many people seemed to have forgotten the part about how it abused and ruled over Southeastern Europe for some 4 centuries. Certainly much longer than Europe ruled over Africa.

    And yet nobody ever hears anyone blame Turkey for the problems of Southeastern Europe. At least nobody in the American left.

    Funny how that works.

    I have Greek ancestors who were ruled by Turkish imperialism. And yet Turks are somehow noble “people of color.”

    *rolls eyes*

    • Dota

      @ BaG

      Your posts are beginning to sound increasingly reactionary. An attack on western imperialism is not an attack on whites or western civilization. This is wahabi logic where the wahabi sees every attack on Islamic extremism as an attack on Islam itself.

      “”And yes, to other commenters above, the fact that Turkey gets off the hook for all of its crimes is quite infuriating.”””

      I find this remark to be somewhat…puzzling. In the end, everyone gets away with crimes like genocide and ethnic cleansing, the Americans did, the Jews did and so did the Turks and Pakistanis. I am frankly appalled at the world’s indifference to the shocking genocide committed by the Pakis against the Bengalis in the early 70s. This may sound cynical, but at the end of the day assigning blame to a group for a crime like genocide does not make one cents worth of difference to them.

      • Wade in MO

        “I find this remark to be somewhat…puzzling.”

        What I think he means in that he is pissed off by the inconsistencies. People will pin things on the US or european countries, but then the same people will dismiss or ignore the crimes of other peoples because they don’t fit their white oppressor historical narrative.

        • Bay Area Guy

          An attack on western imperialism is not an attack on whites or western civilization.

          Not necessarily, true. However, if you’ve spent enough time around American leftists or the post-modernists who infest many college campuses, such attacks on Western imperialism often are attacks on whites and western civilization.

          It’s as if they somehow believe in the unique evil of whites/think that the world was in a wonderful and egalitarian state before they arrived.

          Perhaps I’m wrong, but that’s the impression I get.

          What I think he means in that he is pissed off by the inconsistencies. People will pin things on the US or european countries, but then the same people will dismiss or ignore the crimes of other peoples because they don’t fit their white oppressor historical narrative.

          Exactly. Wade nailed it perfectly.

          I just can’t help but think that the Western cultural left is at war with its own civilization. I see them as a fifth column that weakens and demoralizes the West from within.

  30. Hacienda

    Guys, I’ll repeat what I stated on Sailer’s blog in a different context, but still relevant to this blog:

    There’s something profoundly wrong with the way whites are socialized. It’s why whites are losing everywhere. But don’t cry over it. Okay?

  31. uncle joe

    As Francis Parker Yockey has said, democracy is simply the disguised dictatorship of finance capital/usury and a parasitic, degenerate media elite.
    In other words, Jewry.

  32. uncle joe

    Actually mott, the last thing I ate was a roast beef sandwich, washed down with some Budweiser. Can you lay off the childish ad insults?

  33. mott 69

    No problem, Joe! I actually wasn’t inferring anything cutural from the Ramen comment- I just thought it sounded funny. I am into Asian cuisine, actually.

    I actually have no problem with you- you seem like a good-natured sort- and I notice that you’re not into name-calling. I was actually going to mention that in my last comment.

    Actually, I like you as I perceive your personality, I just can’t follow your logic! That’s what I meant by the comment.

    My previous insult was directed at Hacienda, who I am not liking at the moment. He seems to not possess the class that you have, U.J. He started the name-calling. I try hard to not be the one that starts the real ad hominem- I leave that to my adversary to take the first swing.

    • uncle joe

      Well, I have done my fair share of flaming on this blog, but yes, I’m generally good-natured except with certain groups of “people.”
      I also found you, based on your comments, to be a likable, intelligent guy.
      I also had a hard time understanding your thinking, since in general, people who tend to be critical of capitalism, whether they be commies or some right-wing fascist/Third Position types, tend to also favor political autocracy, if not outright totalitarianism, which is where I tend to lean as well.

      • mott 69

        Yeah. I’m a pro-Western leftist democratic socialist. I think viewpoints like yours are hard to understand for those like me and vice-versa.

        A famous Greek (Plato?) thought that the best form of government was a benevolent dictatorship. I agree with that- I just don’t think we’ll be electing any good Philosopher-Kings in our capitalist-pig infested Jewocracy any time soon. I am a realist. America sucks, agreed.

        My theory is that Easterners lean toward autocracy and Westerners lean toward libertarian type “freedom”. Must be something about living on the other side of the planet.

        • Hacienda

          “My theory is that Easterners lean toward autocracy and Westerners lean toward libertarian type “freedom”. Must be something about living on the other side of the planet.”

          WOW. LOL. Such depth, such richness of thought, such wisdom. LOL. I’m frozen in AWE.

      • Hacienda

        “I also found you, based on your comments, to be a likable, intelligent guy.”

        LOL. You stupid fag. He called you an inferior fishhead just yesterday. Are you REALLY that hard up for companionship of the social networking Facebooky kind? What a fucked up generation. LOL.

        • mott 69

          Did I start something between you two? Darn! My evil plan worked!

          For the record, Uncle Joe is the cooler of you two because he takes the higher road.

          My insult was directed at you because you started it. And no, I am not serious. Chill!

        • Wade in MO

          “LOL. You stupid fag. He called you an inferior fishhead just yesterday. Are you REALLY that hard up for companionship of the social networking Facebooky kind? What a fucked up generation. LOL.”

          LOL @ this LOL!!!

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