Are Iranians White?

It’s certainly a reasonable question, as White nationalists in general answer a resounding “No!” to that question. But even they are funny. Stormfront threw out 300 Armenians on the grounds that they were non-White. They have a Pan-Europeanist policy, which is one of the few noble things about that site.

A very White European-looking Iranian woman. I don't know what the getup is, maybe a traditional costume.

Recently there a lot of Iranians on the site, and though Iranians are not specifically cited as either White or non-White by Stormfront, there has been a hands-off policy about them, and the Stormfronters are letting the Iranians in with little discussion about the issue.

Iranians are funny people. In 1978, I drove an ice cream truck for a living. There were a bunch of Iranians were who driving trucks too. We were all sort of budding capitalists. You lease the truck every day, buy your ice cream, mark it up, and hope for the best. A lot of us supplemented our incomes. The Iranians were very good at this, selling joints for $1 each mostly to the many Mexicans in the parks of Santa Ana (Santa Ana was a heavily Mexican city even 30 years ago).

Once at the end of the day (we lined up at the end of the day to have our coins rolled and get our payout in easy cash) I asked them if they were Arabs. They were adamant. “We are not Arabs!” Later I learned that they don’t like Arabs much. It’s a superior versus inferior thing. The Iranians think they are better and that the Arabs are inferior, a bunch of animals.

Shirin Ebadi, winner of the Nobel Peace Prize. She is an ethnic Azeri.

At worst, Iranian nationalists call them “lizard eating Mohammadens.” Image is heathen Arab Muslims charging out of the deserts of Arabia to destroy the great and proud Iranian culture. And it’s true that the Muslims did devastate Iranian culture, but they did this to all non-Muslim cultures they encountered. After all they were Jahiliyyah or grounded in ignorance.

The modern Islamic state has reinstated this view, downplaying traditional Iranian culture, making Arabic practically a 2nd official language, etc., all of this infuriating Iranian nationalists.

The real hardcore Iranian nationalists often abandon Islam altogether and claim to be Zoroastrians, the true ancient religion of Iran.

The widely despised Ahmadinejad is not even an ethnic Persian.

Iranian nationalists are interesting people.

Iranian nationalists hate Arabs, so you might think they like Jews, but they hate Jews about as much as they hate Arabs. They especially hate Israel. “Mak bar Israel!” is a common cry on Iranian forms (“Death to Israel!”) And the guys yelling this stuff were older professional guys in their 40′s with young kids, secular, and while respectful of Islam, not very religious.

Why the hatred of Israel? Probably, if you are an Iranian nationalist, even a secular one, Israel is seen as your mortal enemy. That’s a logical assumption.

The harder-core Iranian nationalists also dislike Pan-Turkic types, since the Turanian lunatics usually claim some or all of Iran.

The saner Iranian nationalists hate not Arabs but Arab nationalism. Arab nationalism is funny. It’s Leftist, secular, supposedly anti-racist, but they are bristling with hatred for Iranians. Saddam Hussein’s Arab nationalist uncle, who profoundly effected his views, wrote a famous tract, somewhat humorously titled, Three Whom God Should Not Have Created: Jews, Persians and Flies.

The hatred of Arabs towards Persians is similar to that of Gentiles towards Jews or Blacks towards Whites: resentment against a group that thinks they are superior. A common claim, similar to anti-Semitism, among Whites is, “The Iranians are trying to dominate the Arab World!” It’s true that the Iranians opposed Arab nationalism, but who could blame them? The Pan-Arabists were a bunch of anti-Iranian racist shits.

The famous Iranian reformer Khatami was a Persian. Honestly, take off the beard and the funny hat and he's just some White guy, maybe a professor from Germany.

What’s funny about this is that there are Iranian genes running all through the Arabs of the Levant, Mesopotamia and Arabia. It is particularly the case with the Mesopotamian Arabs. The Arab Shia in Southern Iraq have a lot of Iranian blood. One of the reasons Saddam persecuted them so harshly is he thought that they were Iranian fifth columnists. In general, it wasn’t really true, but there was reason to be concerned.

In recent years, as Iran and its Shia allies have turned into the greatest defenders of the Palestinians, the Arab nationalists are in a tough spot. They hate Iran, but how can they deny that Iran is the best defender of the Palestinians in the pitiful and sold-out Arab and Muslim world? There are particular conflicts with Hamas, a Sunni fundamentalist group which is strangely also pro-Iran, and Hezbollah, whose defense of the Palestinians puts the Sunni Arabs to shame.

These realities have forced the Sunnis into all sorts of cognitive dissonance that as usual does not make much sense.

I’ve known a few Iranians. They definitely look like White people. Their skin is often very pale White, especially the females (Why is that?). Some charts strangely enough put them right next to British, Danes and Norwegians genetically. No one knows what to make of it, but we were all together in Southern Russia 4,500 years ago. Some of us took off south to Iran, and others went into Europeans to constitute the modern Europeans. We are born of the same modern roots.

I’ve asked a few Iranians, “You’re White like us, right?” You might think they would get pissed, but they usually give an instant yes or break into a huge smile. They clearly consider themselves “Europeans outside or Europe.”

Aylar Lie, Iranian porn star from Norway. A lot of Iranian refugees are in Northern Europe for unknown reasons. There are quite a few in Norway. She has gotten death threats from Iranians in Norway due to her work. I've seen some of her movies. Not bad.

Scientifically, it’s an reasonable assumption.

Genetically, Iranians probably have little if any Black in them. Your average German has more Black in them than an Iranian. They do have some Asiatic genes, but probably not many.

The Iranians are actually an interesting link to populations further east. There is a close link between Italians and Iranians (Italians are probably the closest Europeans to Iranians) and then there is another close link between Iranians and Indians, especially North Indians.

So the linkage goes like this (all groups separated by only one arrow are closely linked, but groups separated by more than one arrow are not so close):

Core Europeans -> Italians -> Iranians -> North Indians

So, neither core Europeans nor Italians are all that close to North Indians per se, they can become closer to them through this linkage process.

As you can see on this incredible map, Iranians are about as far from core North European Whites as Italians are. Amazing.

Iranian genes are common in the region, even outside of Arabia. Many Afghans have Iranian blood and it’s quite common in Pakistanis too. There is a lot of Iranian blood in the Caucasus. Most of your Chechen, Dagestani, Ingush, etc. types seem to derive from some sort of Iranian-Turkish mix. The Ossetians are actually a transplanted Iranian group living in Russia and speaking a language related to Iranian.

There is Iranian blood running through the Stans – Uzbekistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan, Tajikistan and Kyrgyzstan. It’s probably most prominent in Tajikistan.

Persians are only 51% or Iran. Most would be surprised to learn that. The rest are Kurds, Azeris (27%), Arabs, Lurs, Mazandaris, Qashqai, Balochis, Gilakis, Turkmen and Talysh. There are also smaller groups such as Assyrians, Armenians, Georgians, Kazakhs, Chechens and Jews.

The Kurds and Balochis have serious separatist tendencies. The Arabs (Ahvaz) just fight for more rights as an oppressed minority. Azeri separatism has not really gone anywhere, since the Azeris are actually a dominant minority in Iran! The Talysh have separatist tendencies, but in Azerbaijan, not in Iran.

An Azeri from Azerbaijan. Most Azeris actually live outside of Azerbaijan in Iran. Many Azeris look very White, even more so than Iranians. Lot of blond hair and blue and green eyes. Interesting.

I don’t support the separatism of the Balochis and Kurds in Iran as long as Iran is under imperialist assault, but if this were not the case, I would think they deserve the right to self-determination. Iran is correct to suppress Arab separatism and the desire to take Iran’s oil and gas wealth with them to a separate state.

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564 Comments

Filed under Afghans, Arabs, Azeris, Caucasus, Central Asians, Chechens, Dagestanis, Ethnic Nationalism, Europeans, Hispanics, Iran, Iranians, Iraqis, Islam, Israel, Italians, Jews, Kurds, Mexicans, Middle East, Nationalism, Near Easterners, Pakistanis, Palestinians, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, Regional, Religion, Shiism, South Asia, South Asians, Sunnism, White Nationalism, White Racism, Whites, Zoroastrianism

564 responses to “Are Iranians White?

  1. anon

    Are Jews more related to Arabs or non-Arab peoples such as Anatolian Turks, Kurds, and Persians?
    It’s strange because Jews are supposedly a Semitic people with a Semitic language yet some genetic tests show they are closer to peoples north of the Fertile Crescent such as Kurds and Anatolian Turks than their Levantine Arab neighbors such as Syrians and Palestinians.

    • Cyrus

      I am pretty weary of a lot of these “genetic tests.” How much of it is steered for political purposes, including influencing the results, is questions that should be asked.

      • bob matthews

        i second that, very much all state funded science and has been for centuries

      • hamid

        hey man your words are very beautiful bravo ;) ( hamid from persia)

      • jackie43

        iranians are NOT white, iranians are muslims=brown

        • cyrus

          go to hell, how dare you say muslims are brown, you are so stupid, iran in caucasions aryans and only 60-70% are still aryans, the ones that are brown are other races, azerbaigan, turkey, afghan, iran, lebanon, all these lands are caucasion people, the brown ones are foreign to us, just like any other country, we have our immigrends, but the natives are caucasion, muslim are just a religion, how can they all belong to one race, you are a stupid dog, i have seen brown christans, am i going to say all christians are brown, no, because im not so stupid like you, simple minded ape.

        • Dota

          This isn’t our Cyrus that’s for sure

        • Iranians ARE white…they were Zoroastrians before becoming Muslims, which was the first monotheistic religion ever. So they are not ethnically Muslims…Europeans or “whites” actually derived from the Indo-Iranian people thousands of years ago…so yes Iranians ARE white.

        • alexisjoon

          oh my God, read a book you idiot..

        • persia

          iranian are not muslims,they hate eslammmmm and mohammad who raped 9 years old girl!

        • You do know that true caucasians are from the caucas moutains right? Anyway they are not caucasian and neither are Europeans. Caucasian or Caucasoid was introduced as a specific term since they thought they had the most beautiful features and so thought they were descended from that area (We now know europeans and other caucasoid people originated in central asia so should be considerd asiatic or some other correct term.

        • Celtic origins are in Anatolia.

          Iranians are Europeans outside of Europe!

        • Leo

          Being a Muslim does not mean one is brown. It’s a religion. Anyone can convert to Islam — whether white or black.

          Plus, white people aren’t literally white lol. They tend to be either beige, tan, or light brown. So being brown does not exclude one from being white. Most Iranians I know or have seen look no different than Southern Europeans. I would consider them white. Same goes for Arabs of the Levant. They look white too. All are Caucasoid so I guess it makes no difference.

        • ?

          how the f do you relate the religion of a man with his skin color? LOL

        • No.you are wrong.i am ab iranian and i know my skin’s color.I AM WHITE.your religion doesn’t make your skin’s color.you have not seen a black catholic in your life.do you really think any muslim is muslim geneticly and his religion makes his color skin?read and study more,please.

    • Ashkenazi Jews are close to Kurds, Armenians and Turks, but they are also secondarily close to Levantine Arabs. Not sure about Mizrachi Jews.

      • Dave Coe

        Are you talking about Khazars?

      • anon

        How is that so if they are Semitic in origin?

        • The notion that they are Semites is not based on science. That’s just old anthropological theory that lumps people into these fake races based on phenotype and also language. It’s not that scientific. Genes are better.

      • Nope. Ashkenazi Jews are basically Iraqi Jews who went to Europe. Also, it’s possible that the Jews came out of Iraq. Read the Bible and see where Abraham came from. I think Ur.

        Khazarian DNA looks different from the Armenian – Turkish – Kurdish DNA.

        • anon

          Shouldn’t they be speaking an Indo-European language instead of Hebrew then? And is there that much of a difference genetically between Arabs and people directly to the north such as Kurds and Turks?

        • Not necessarily. Language and genes do not always line up very well. Yes, Semitic DNA looks a lot different from Anatolian DNA.

        • anon

          I meant Levantine Arabs and Anatolians not Arabs of Arabia.

        • Cyrus

          Interesting. I didn’t know they were basically Iraqi Jews. I might just have to start calling some of my Jewish buddies “Iraqis,” and see how they react.

          I would imagine that Khazarian DNA would differ greatly from Armenian-Turkish-Kurdish examples. Any idea where they got the Khazarian DNA samples from? Do they actually have any modern day direct descendants?

        • u know nothing it was better to say i dont know than to pretend that u know jew word means ashkenaz mizrahe and sefardime word israelite the semstic one means only jacob decendenses
          the king of khazar he and his nation they convert till judaism casi 1000 years ago so they jew by religion and not israelite by race

        • http://www.familytreedna.com/pdf/4302 6_ Doron.pdf
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/
          http://www.pnas.org/content/97/12/6769.full
          http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/vaop/ncurrent/abs/nature09103.¬html
          http://www.nytimes.com/2000/05/09/science/y-chromosome-bears-witness-to-story-of-the-jewish-diaspora.html
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1274378/?tool=pm¬centrez
          http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1380291/?tool=pm¬centrez

          Efforts to identify the origins of Ashkenazi Jews through DNA analysis began in the 1990s. Like most DNA studies of human migration patterns, these studies have focused on two segments of the human genome, the Y chromosome (inherited only by males), and the mitochondrial genome (mtDNA, DNA which passes from mother to child). Both segments are unaffected by recombination. Thus, they provide an indicator of paternal and maternal origins, respectively.
          2A study of haplotypes of the Y chromosome, published in 2000, addressed the paternal origins of Ashkenazi Jews. Hammer et al. found that the Y chromosome of some Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews contained mutations that are also common among Middle Eastern peoples, but uncommon in the general European population. This suggested that the male ancestors of the Ashkenazi Jews could be traced to the Middle East. The proportion of male genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to less than 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, with ” minor contribution of European Y chromosomes to the Ashkenazim,”
          Points in which Jewish groups differ is largely in the source and proportion of genetic contribution from host populations. The proportion of male indigenous European genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to around 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, and a total admixture estimate “very similar to Motulsky’s average estimate of 12.5%. More recent study estimates an even lower European male contribution, and that only 5%-8% of the Ashkenazi gene pool is of European origin.
          3. A 2005 study by Nebel et al., based on Y chromosome polymorphic markers, showed that Ashkenazi Jews are more closely related to other Jewish and Middle Eastern groups than to their host populations in Europe.Nebel concluded that jewish genetics is wey much uniforme and that the level of non israelite contribution to Jews is extremely low in comparation to other nation and their non indigenous genetic makeup
          Almut Nebel, Dvora Filon, Bernd Brinkmann, Partha P. Majumder, Marina Faerman, Ariella Oppenheim. “The Y Chromosome Pool of Jews as Part of the Genetic Landscape of the Middle East
          Wade, Nicholas (January 14 2006)

          more recent studies point to a significant female founder ancestry deriving from the Middle East. A 2006 study by Behar et based on high-resolution analysis of haplogroup K(mtDNA), suggested that the current Ashkenazi population is descended matrilineally from just four women, or “founder lineages”, that were “likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool” originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries CE. Although Haplogroup K is common throughout western Eurasia, “the observed global pattern of distribution renders very unlikely the possibility that the four aforementioned founder lineages entered the Ashkenazi mtDNA pool via gene flow from a European host population.”
          4 In addition, Behar et al. have suggested that the rest of Ashkenazi mtDNA is originated from ~150 women, most of those were probably of Middle Eastern origin.
          Behar, M.; Ene Metspalu, Toomas Kivisild, Alessandro Achilli, Yarin Hadid, Shay Tzur, Luisa Pereira, Antonio Amorim, Lluı’s Quintana-Murci, Kari Majamaa, Corinna Herrnstadt, Neil Howell, Oleg Balanovsky, Ildus Kutuev, Andrey Pshenichnov, , Batsheva Bonne-Tamir, Antonio Torroni, Richard Villems, and Karl Skorecki (March 2006). “The Matrilineal Ancestry of Ashkenazi Jewry: Portrait of a Recent Founder Event” (PDF). The American Journal of Human Genetics 78 (3): 48797. doi:10.1086/500307. PMID 16404693. http://www.ftdna.com/pdf/43026_Doron.pdf. Retrieved on 2008-12-30.
          using complete sequences of the maternally inherited mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), we show that close to one-half of Ashkenazi Jews, estimated at 8,000,000 people, can be traced back to only four women carrying distinct mtDNAs that are virtually absent in other populations, with the important exception of non Ashkenazi jews We conclude that four founding mtDNAs, Near Eastern ancestry, and can be described as a sovely Israelite mtDNA.This mt DNA was not found in any non jewish or semitic people searched (Palestinians,Turks,Kurds,Slavs and others)
          Wade, Nicholas (January 14 2006)
          Behar, M.; Ene Metspalu, Toomas Kivisild, Alessandro Achilli, Yarin Hadid, Shay Tzur, Luisa Pereira, Antonio Amorim, Lluı’s Quintana-Murci, Kari Majamaa, Corinna Herrnstadt
          Jewish populations which have both culturall and physicall uniformity, genetic studies have demonstrated most of these to be genetically related to one another, having ultimately originated from a common ancient Israelite population that underwent geographic branching and subsequent independent evolutions.
          A study published by the National Academy of Sciences found that “the paternal gene pools of Jewish communities from Europe, North Africa, and the Middle East descended from a common Middle Eastern ancestral population”, and suggested that Jewish communities have remained isolated from neighboring non-Jewish communities during and after the Diaspora Researchers expressed surprise at the remarkable genetic uniformity they found among modern Jews, no matter where the diaspora has become dispersed around the world.[
          Hammer, M. F.; A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir (May 9 2000). "Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 97: 6769. doi:10.1073/pnas.100115997. PMID 10801975.

          Moreover, DNA tests have demonstrated substantially less inter-marriage in most of the various Jewish ethnic divisions over the last 3,000 years than in other populations.

          Even the archetype of Israelite-origin is also beginning to be reviewed for some Jewish populations amid newer studies. Previously, the Israelite origin identified in the world's Jewish populations was attributed only to the males who had migrated from the Middle East and then forged the current known communities with "the women from each local population whom they took as wives and converted to Judaism".Research in Ashkenazi Jews has suggested that, in addition to the male founders, significant female founder ancestry also derive from the Middle East, with the current Ashkenazi population descended matrilineally from just four women, or "founder lineages", that were "likely from a Hebrew/Levantine mtDNA pool" originating in the Near East in the first and second centuries CE
          Wade, Nicholas (January 14 2006). "New Light on Origins of Ashkenazi in Europe". The New York Times. http://www.nytimes.com/2006/01/14/science/14gene.html?_r=1&oref=slogin. Retrieved on 2006-05-24.

          DNA analysis further determined that modern Jews of the priesthood tribe — "Kohanim" — share a common ancestor dating back about 3,000 years. This result is consistent for all Jewish populations around the world. The researchers estimated that the most recent common ancestor of modern Kohanim lived between 1000 BCE (roughly the time of the Biblical Exodus) and 586 BCE, when the Babylonians destroyed the First Temple. They found similar results analyzing DNA from Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews. The scientists estimated the date of the original priest based on genetic mutations, which indicated that the priest lived roughly 106 generations ago, between 2,650 and 3,180 years ago depending whether one counts a generation as 25 or 30 years,, This mutations in DNA is used nowdays as exclusive Israelite base for comperation with other ethnic groups.
          • Karl Skorecki, Sara Selig, Shraga Blazer, Bruce Rappaport, Robert Bradman, Neil Bradman, P.J. Waburton, Monic Ismajlowicz (January 2 1997). "Y Chromosomes of Jewish Priests" ([dead link] Scholar search). NATURE, Volume 385. http://www.familytreedna.com/nature97385.html.
          • ^ a b c “Priestly Gene Shared By Widely Dispersed Jews”. American Society for Technion, Israel Institute of Technology. July
          http://www.aish.com/societywork/sciencenature/Jewish_Genes.asp
          The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrahim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.
          The National Academy of Science
          http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/jewish-genetics/
          non Israelite contribution to askhenazi jews. There is no jewish race. Showing all the unbeatebale evidence of Israelite Ashkenazi and sepharadic which had less intermarriage than most of other europen nations we must also stress that there is a wey small but existing non jewish contribution in nowdays Ashkenazim Hamer pointed out that it can be about5-12% of genetic pole of askhenazim and about 2% of other Jews Nebel belived that this procentage is about 8,7% while other scientists agree about 5-12,5% of askenazi jews and abot 7,9-8,2% of owerall jewish population
          The proportion of male indigenous European genetic admixture in Ashkenazi Jews amounts to around 0.5% per generation over an estimated 80 generations, and a total admixture estimate “very similar to Motulsky’s average estimate of 12.5%.”
          Hammer, M. F.; A. J. Redd, E. T. Wood, M. R. Bonner, H. Jarjanazi, T. Karafet, S. Santachiara-Benerecetti, A. Oppenheim, M. A. Jobling, T. Jenkins, H. Ostrer, and B. Bonné-Tamir (May 9 2000). “Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes”. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences 97: 6769. doi:10.1073/pnas.100115997.
          Just to be clear THIS PROCENTAGE IS EXTREMLY LOW in comparation with other nations/
          However it must be said that the ashkenazi levytes have many non jewish genes.Interestingly most of this genes were usally contributed to slavs
          CONCLUSIONS
          The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrahim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J E and K.
          Ashkenazim also descend, in a WERY small way, from European peoples
          THE ISRAELITE ORIGIN is one of the highest procentage of genetcal uniformity and ancestors genes hereditament among any nation worldvide. Knowing the makeup of Israeli population (mizrachi majority and askhenazi minority we can say that Israeli Jews are absolutely Israelites today.

          1 The ahaaron haplotype is today videly used as a model of semitic origin marker by all scientist
          2. There is no doubt in any scientific circle that today jews are representing the main stream of jewish israelite population that lived in the ancient Israel
          3. There are some evidence that Jews as a people migrated from the place of northern Iraq (ancient mesopotamia) to the land of Israel 2000 year B.CE

          Prof Behar found in 2006 and 2008 studies that Jews are maternaly decendans of midle east Israelites (whic is uniqe as such level of inharited decendancy is not existing enywhere in any nation) Behar as Hammer and Thomas concluded that
          ”there is no doubt of any Israelite origin of Jews.
          The summary of all studies carried out till today copy/paste
          # The main ethnic element of Ashkenazim (German and Eastern European Jews), Sephardim (Spanish and Portuguese Jews), Mizrakhim (Middle Eastern Jews), Juhurim (Mountain Jews of the Caucasus), Italqim (Italian Jews), and most other modern Jewish populations of the world is Israelite. The Israelite haplotypes fall into Y-DNA haplogroups J and E.

          van Oransky. “Tracing Mideast Roots Back to Isaac and Ishmael: Study of Y Chromosome Suggests a Common Ancestry for Jews and Arabs.” The Forward (May 19, 2000). Excerpts:

          “. Follow-up studies are already being planned. Dr. Ostrer is hoping to collect genetic information from 1000 Askenazi Jews to study migrational patterns across Europe. Dr. Hammer said he will study the D

          Hillary Mayell. “Genetic Link Established Between Jews and Arabs.” National Geographic News
          “…The study, published in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences, found that Jewish men shared a common set of genetic signatures with non-Jews from the Middle East, including Palestinians, Syrians, and Lebanese. These signatures were significantly different from non-Jewish men outside of the Middle East. This means Jews and Arabs have more in common with each other, genetically speaking, than they do with any of the wider communities in which they might live. Dr Mark Jobling of Leicester University, UK, one of the authors of the new study, told the BBC: ‘The kind of DNA we have used to analyse this question is the human Y chromosome. This represents only 2% of our genetic material and it is passed down from father to son… The fact that we don’t see it [signals of genetic mixture
          between Jews and non-Jews] suggests that after the Diaspora these populations really have managed to maintain their Jewish heritage.”

          Nicholas Wade. “Y Chromosome Bears Witness to Story of the Jewish Diaspora.” The New York Times (May 9, 2000): F4 (col. 1). Excerpts:

          “The analysis provides genetic witness that these communities have, to a remarkable extent, retained their biological identity separate from their host populations, evidence of relatively little intermarriage or conversion into Judaism over the centuries…. The results accord with Jewish history and tradition and refute theories like those holding that Jewish communities consist mostly of converts from other faiths, or that they are descended from the Khazars, a medieval Turkish tribe that adopted Judaism…. But present-day Ethiopian Jews lack some of the other lineages found in Jewish communities, and overall are more like non-Jewish Ethiopians than other Jewish populations, at least in terms of their Y chromosome lineage pattern…. Roman Jews have a pattern quite similar to that of Ashkenazis, the Jewish community of Eastern Europe. Dr. Hammer said the finding accorded with the hypothesis that Roman Jews were the ancestors of the Ashkenazis. Despite the Ashkenazi Jews’ long residence in Europe, their Y signature has remained distinct from that of non-Jewish Europeans.”

          Joel J. Elias. “The Genetics of Modern Assyrians and their Relationship to Other People of the Middle East.” Assyrian Health Network (July 20, 2000). Excerpts:

          “Based on earlier studies using classical genetic methods7, Cavalli-Sforza et al. came to the conclusion ‘that Jews have maintained considerable genetic similarity among themselves and with people from the Middle East, with whom they have common origins.’ Evidence for the latter concept was very convincingly made and extended by an international team of scientists [Hammer et al.] in a very recent research article8, widely reported in the press, in which the genetics of different Middle Eastern populations were studied using a completely different method than the classical methods that form the great majority of papers in the Cavalli-Sforza et al book. The research involved direct DNA analysis of the Y chromosome, which is found only in males and is passed down from father to son. Seven different Jewish groups from communities in Europe, North Africa and the Middle East were compared to various non-Jewish populations from those areas. The results showed, first of all, that ‘Despite their long-term residence in different countries and isolation from one another, most Jewish populations were not significantly different from one another at the genetic level.’ Furthermore, the genetic characteristics of Jews were shown to be distinctly different from (non-Jewish) Europeans, suggesting that very little admixture occurred between Jews and Europeans, even after about 80 generations of Jews in Europe…. In fact, the Palestinians and Syrians were so close to the Jews in genetic characteristics that they ‘mapped within the central cluster of Jewish populations.’”
          7. Carmelli, D. and Cavalli-Sforza, L.L. The genetic origin of the Jews: A multi-variate approach. Hum. Biol., 51:41-61. 1979.
          8. Hammer, M.F. et al. [12 authors]. Jewish and Middle Eastern non-Jewish populations share a common pool of Y-chromosome biallelic haplotypes. Proceedings National Academy Sciences USA…

          Doron M. Behar, Ene Metspalu, Toomas Kivisild, Saharon Rosset, Shay Tzur, Yarin Hadid, Guennady Yudkovsky, Dror Rosengarten, Luisa Pereira, Antonio Amorim, Ildus Kutuev, David Gurwitz, Batsheva Bonne-Tamir, Richard Villems, and Karl Skorecki. “Counting the Founders: The Matrilineal Genetic Ancestry of the Jewish Diaspora.” PLoS ONE 3:4 (April 30, 2008): e2062. (mirror) 1142 mtDNA samples were gathered from Jews of non-Ashkenazi origin (including Georgian Jews, Indian Jews, Iraqi Jews, Tunisian Jews, Bulgarian Jews, and others) plus 253 samples from Near Eastern non-Jews. These data were compared with data from 583 Ashkenazi Jews. Abstract: The level of Israelite ogenes of Jews are abowe 90%

          Michael F. Seldin, Russell Shigeta, Pablo Villoslada, Carlo Selmi, Jaakko Tuomilehto, Gabriel Silva, John W. Belmont, Lars Klareskog, and Peter K. Gregersen. “European Population Substructure: Clustering of Northern and Southern Populations.” Public Library of Science Genetics (PLoS Genetics) 2(9) (September 2006). Abstra

          evolutsioon.ut.ee/publications/Shen2004.pdf
          This is wery interesting study because of two reasons
          1.Samaritanians are belived to be the true surviving Israelites who still cary the l picture of Israelite people.
          Here are the conclusions of Shen et all after comparing Samaritanian Israelites with 11 populational group

          ”Table 3 presents the pair-wise genetic distances (Fst)
          between 11 populations from AMOVA applied to the
          Y-chromosomal and mitochondrial data. For the
          Y-chromosome, all Jewish groups, except for the Ethiopians,
          are closely related to each other. They do not differ
          significantly from Samaritans (0.041) and Druze (0.033),
          but are different from Palestinians (0.163), Africans
          (0.219), and Europeans (0.111) (Table 4).

          Nevertheless, the data in Tables 3 and 4
          indicate that the Samaritan and Jewish Y-chromosomes
          have a much greater affinity than do those of the
          Samaritans and their long time geographical neighbours,
          the Palestinians.

        • jayjay

          what is white Bob? WHat is the definition of white- nobody here seems to have done this. This must be one of the most unscientific discussions I have read. And remember you take a Spaniard or an Italian and put him in the blazing fields of the Punjab and you get a brown “white”. So what IS white Bob. What is white?

        • What is White, Jay?

          Why that’s easy. White is whatever I say it is. If I say you’re White, you’re White. How hard is that?

        • Reader

          Your information is incorrect, your knowledge is wrongly based and your writing lack scientific or archaeologic back up. Please instruct your self before sharing phantasmic theories.

        • Ok dickwad, you are banned.

          HAVE A NICE DAY!

      • olbodala

        No,celtics origins like info-european origins in a large way are in Ukraine.

    • anatolian

      jew-wish?

  2. Cyrus

    Damn Robert. Good article. You really did your homework on all this!

    The only point I think you may be in error is on the ethnic background of Ahmadinejad. I am almost certain he is not of Azeri background. Inbred Persian peasant, and not much more. He does not speak any Azeri Turkish, and doesn’t really look it either. Khamenei and Khatami or both ethnic Azeri, and it shows.

    For fun, check out these Iranian “comparison pics.”

    http://www.aref-adib.com/archives/khomeini_connery1.jpg

    http://www.aref-adib.com/archives/spielbergkhatami1.jpg

    http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/12/4/128728998449020593.jpg

    Freaking scarey… :D

  3. Dave Coe

    You say Iranian Nationalist hate Jews as much as Arabs but I have seen tons of Persians at pro-Israel rallies here in LA. I went to one sponsored by a group called Jewish Voice for Peace against the siege in Gaza and on the Pro-Israel side about half of the Zionist were Persians. I don’t know maybe they could of been Mizrahi Jews from Iran but a lot of Persian in the US support Israel because they hate the Islamist Regime and Ahmadinejad.

    • Cyrus

      Well, a lot of these LA “Persians” are what you call “Shahis.” They were supporters and close to the Shah’s regime back in Iran, and fled to the U.S with all their bad habits. They have a lot in common with Cuban-Americans and Vietnamese-Americans in that regard. Absolutely disgusting people. Right-wing assholes to the core. Every stereotype you can think of about Iranian-Americans comes from their spoiled children.

      The Shah had VERY close relations with Israel. Very close is probably an understatement. The Mossad basically trained and taught the Shah’s secret police, the “Savak.” It is not the least bit surprising that the majority of Shahis are pro-Israel. They always have been. They may secretly hate Jews, but in public, they support Israel. The also support the neocons, because they live in the fantasy land that the U.S will simply overthrow the current Iranian government and reinstall the Shah’s fat-ass son as king.

      These are absolutely the last people on Earth you want to talk to in trying to understand the current situation in Iran. Most have not been there in over 30 years, and have no clue how much the place has changed. Even worse, they are all convinced that there could have been no progress what-so-ever in Iran without their enlightened leadership. Absolute morons who are leading the charge for war between the U.S and Iran. They could care less if the U.S has to kill millions of their fellow “countrymen” to get their power back. All they care about is returning to pre-1979. Even worse, plenty of our leaders are listening on either side of the isle. So is the Israeli lobby. None of these people have a clue about the realities that will take place if their “dream” comes true.

      As for the Persian Jews, I don’t blame them for being pro-Israel. Hell, there Jewish after all, and most don’t see any future in Iran for themselves. I also don’t have much sympathy for them. They weren’t exactly facing an real threat in 1979 that anyone else was, unless they were really close to the Shah. Unfortunately, many were. Also, and for the record, plenty of LA Persian Jews travel to Iran all the time, to see family and for business. Nobody there gives them a hard time unless they are really politically active in the U.S. Hence, my lack of sympathy for their plight.

      Then there is the Iran-Iraq War. A lot of folks fled that, regardless of ethnic or religious background. Of course, they came to the U.S claiming political refugee status, but that is bullshit about 50% of the time. I even know of some Iranians who claim to be “Persian Jews,” even though I know damn well that they are not. Go figure. Anything for asylum in the U.S, eh? :D

      • Dyrus

        You don’t know about Persians, Shah and Shahis. You idiot have to do some more research before you open your fucking mouth. Your name is the name of best person ever in the world but you have not even little in common with Cyrus the great… you asshole better don’t fuck his name up with your ugly face and personality… Fuck U.S. Americans had loved to live in Iran when Shah was in power. Go figure…

      • just for fun

        why did u chose “Cyrus” for ur name? I’m almost sure ur Azeri

    • India

      They must be Iranian Jews. Iranian Muslims – no matter how much they hate Ahmedinejad – will not support the Jews because most Iranians are highly sympathetic towards Palestinians.

      • Cyrus

        India, you have just shown how little you know of the subject you are talking about. Did you even bother to read what I wrote? Oh wait, let me guess, we just have to defer to your infinite Indian wisdom… :D

        To say you missed the mark here is an understatement.

        • Cyrus

          In truth, only maybe 20-30% of Iranians in Iran give a damn about the “Palestinians.” More probably hate them. Iranians would be indifferent to the entire conflict, if it wasn’t for their stupid government’s obsession with using the Palestinians as a tool to garner Arab support, and become a regional “puppet player.” After all, that is where the government is spending their money, on a bunch of Arabs who they hate. This, as opposed to Iran’s own people.

          Lets not forget than during the Iran-Iraq War, the Palestinians even sent volunteers to fight with Saddam’s forces against Iran.

          In Southern California, that is another story. The Shahi’s love Israel. They are basically neocons ideologically. They would love for Israel, and then the U.S, to attack Iran. Many of these LA “Persians” even still consider themselves Shia Muslims while doing this. Some even pray 3 times a day. Whatever.

          The idea of Persian Jews and Persian Shia being on the same side in a debate in SoCal is entirely believable. Almost guaranteed at times.

  4. Ken Hoop

    I believe “orthodox” Zoroastrians have perenially forbade conversion into–perhaps they’re relaxing this practise, due to declining ranks?

    • Yes, you can now convert to Zoroastrianism. And the ranks are declining.

      Convert today!

      I did some research into it. It’s a pretty cool religion, makes a lot of sense really.

      • Cyrus

        Cool region, yes. The Zoroastrians I have met that have tried “convert” me, did so because they view all Iranians and their descendants as potential candidates to “re-discover” their ways.

        Pretty smart folks, when you meet them. A number of them look like Freddy Mercury, for some reason… :)

        • Car Guy

          Yea, a solid square jaw with a double chin must be common with these guys. The only Zoroastrian I have ever met in real life had this feature.

    • Cyrus

      It is. They are focusing for the most part on overseas Iranians, to “revert” back to the initial religion. Kinda interesting to meet them…

      • Mort Goldman

        I’ve read quite a bit about Zoroastrianism. It does sorta make sense, and I like the idea of sky burial as practiced by the Parsees of India. Could one become an honorary Parsee or Zoroastrian at death? And if Jews are as closely related to such Indo-Iranians as the Kurds and Armenians as some studies show, maybe I’d have a shot.

        • Cyrus

          Hey, I’m all for it if they let you! I guess in America, we try and make anything work. :)

          If you like, I can ask around. I meet a lot of Persian Zoroastrians here in Southern California, and a few Indian ones to. They have a good size community here. I bet they have some kind of funeral park around here somewhere…Wonder how it relates to local burial laws?

          I have always been under the impression that Zoroastrianism and Judaism have a relative ancient connection of sorts, and perhaps a mutual origin. As though Zoroastrianism is what connects Judaism to the religions of India and such. I am not certain, but the prospect has always fascinated me.

          All in all and to my understanding, Indian Zoroastrians of the Parsee flavor do not allow converts of any kind. Not even Persian ones from Iran. They are hell bent on protecting their community. The other group of more “recent” Zoroastrians in India do allow it, but I think they have to see you as one of them, aka probably some kind of Persian type, or married to one. Iranian Zoroastrians in the U.S as of late, and to a degree in Iran, will convert pretty much anyone from any country with the word “stan” behind it. Even anyone even close. You probably got a shot with them, at least for the burial. Just hang around some of those guys(and ladies). :)

        • Shawn

          hi ah,

          Persians are NOT White. They are a mixed race — impure by their nature — muds.

        • I met some of them online, and they acted like they would convert me too. I’m just some White WASP type. Maybe they will convert anyone.

          The Parsees are dying out in India and a lot of people are pissed about their burial practices.

          That burial practice is probably one of the most ancient of all. I think the Yezidis used to bury their dead like that too. And some extant Negrito populations do too. This suggests that it goes along with one of the most ancient religions of man. Zoroastrianism, along with Yezidism, is probably one of the most ancient formal religions known to mankind. I figure it may go back 10,000 years. Yezidism draws a lot from Zoroastrianism also.

          I have a feeling that Zoroastrianism was probably the ancient religion of the proto-Indo-Iranians up there in Southern Russia when they were with the Indo-Europeans.

        • Cyrus

          Come to think of, back in the 90′s, I remember a Usenet group on history getting spammed by Zoroastrian missionaries. They were looking to convert anyone, just like Evangelical Christians. Seems they have decided the only way to survive is to expand, me thinks.

          I am certain those are Iranians doing this. Probably converts themselves. Goes hand in hand with their hatred of the Iranian government, and disgust with Islam as a religion.

          Of course, when you read about the decline of the Sassanid Persian empire, it becomes evident that the Zoroastrian priests of the 6 century are literally the ayatollahs of the 21st. Even their clothing is very similar. Seems to me that they just switched religions at some point along the way. Hence, going back to Zoroastrianism won’t fix anything, me thinks.

        • Cyrus

          Shawn’s a hater.

          Now, pardon me while I go back to my “mud” hut…

        • Mort Goldman

          Cyrus: Go ahead, as long as it’s not wasting their time. My interest is still at the point of idle curiosity.

          The connection between Judaism (and therefore Christianity, Islam, etc.) is very interesting and suggestive, and it’s clear some influence took place. A few years ago I was reading a massive treatise someone had put on the Internet claiming that post exilic Judaism had been created from whole cloth by transplanted Persian Zoroastrians from orthodox Zorastrian doctrine with some local color thrown in. In support of his thesis, the author cited the similarity of key concepts that did not seem to exist in the Hebrew/Israelite religion prio to the exile but did exist in Zoroastrianism. He also suggested the possibility that the word “Pharisee” came from Parsee or Farsi.

          I assumed he was a crank at the time, although a very interesting one. After all, why did he have to publish this massive (and I DO mean massive) tome on the internet for free? But I later learned that some mainstream scholars take a similar view for similar reasons, although w/o this guy’s somewhat conspiratorial slant. I wish I still had the link, or remembered the author’s name.

        • Mort Goldman

          Here’s the link, actually:

          http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/index.php

        • Cheesy

          My wife is half Iranian: most people think she’s of mediteranean blood, usually Italian.
          I used to piss my MIL off by suggesting Zoroastrians are followers of “The Great A ctorGuy Williams.

  5. hmm

    “seen some of her movies”

    LOL

    quality actor, huh? She needs to get into it more, cant tell if she loves the role or not.

  6. Emmalovely

    Iranians look Middle eastern.. but they are considered caucasians.

    • Dave Coe

      middle easterners are caucasion.

    • Cyrus

      As opposed to other Middle Easterners?

      • Dave Coe

        bassically all middle easterners are caucasion. Caucasion doesn’t nessesarily mean white even a lot of South Asians are Caucasion.

        • Cyrus

          I know. :)

        • Most South Asians are Caucasians. Some are Asians, and a tiny few are Blacks.

          I don’t think all Middle Easterners are Caucasians. Have you seen Prince Bandar? He has so much Black in him, I’m not sure if he’s even a Caucasoid. He seems like a mulatto of some type. There are also some Horner type Blacks in Yemen and also some very small Blacks that no one knows what to make of. They may be the remains of some sort of Negritos.

          What’s fascinating is that there apparently were Negritos along the coast of Iran in historical times, but it looks like they died out or got bred out. There were probably Negrito types living all along the Indian Ocean from Yemen to Vietnam, New Guinea and Australia.

        • Cyrus

          Actually Robert, the Iranians you meet from the southern coasts of Iran, down near Bandar Abbas, are REALLY dark. Almost like Africans. They speak Persian and are culturally no different, but they have been mixing it up with the Arabs of the Southern Arabia Peninsula for some time. This is due to the fishing and trade that has been taking place there for thousands of years. That also meant plenty of interwction with East Africans and such. Then there was the Arab slave trade, plus the Porteguese conterolled the place for a while, and

        • Cyrus

          Actually Robert, the Iranians you meet from the southern coasts of Iran, down near Bandar Abbas, are REALLY dark. Almost like Africans. They look African sometimes. They speak Persian and are culturally no different, but they have been mixing it up with the Arabs of the Southern Arabian Peninsula for some time. This is due to the fishing and trade that has been taking place there for thousands of years. That also meant plenty of interaction with East Africans and such. Then there was the Arab slave trade, plus the Portuguese controlled the place for a while.

  7. Reader

    The Persian expats you find in LA generally look much darker and less white than the pics people post online to prove how white Iranians are. Ahmadinejad is very white by the standards of Iranians I’ve met.

    • Cyrus

      Hah! That has more to do with Southern California’s sunny outdoor living than anything else. Most pics of Iranians comes from Tehran. Ever been to Tehran in the winter? Think Boston or New York, or even Chicago from time to time.

    • Dave Coe

      Yeah noticed that to. could be cause they are Jewish and Iranian Jews are semitic?

      • Mort Goldman

        I’ve known a fair number of Iranian Jews and gentiles. I can’t really tell them apart, but Iranians themselves can do it quite easily, I’m told.

        I knew one Iranian Jewish guy who was absolutely a dead ringer for the short lived president of revolutionary Iran, Bani Sadr. He was very short, though. Like 5 ft.

        • Mort Goldman

          And I know it’s been debunked, but I wasn’t surprised when I heard the claim that Ahmadinejad had Jewish roots. Most Iranians I’ve seen have somewhat “Aryan” features. Ahmadinejad looks almost Arab.

        • Cyrus

          Yah, he does. Maybe the little village he is from was settled by Arabs centuries ago. Who knows…

          There are a lot of modern day Persian Shia Muslims who are descended from village tribes that may have been Jewish at one point, but for whatever reason are no longer. It is kind of a known fact in central Iran. It looks like someone was trying to use that to hurt Ahmedinejad. Truth is, no one gives a damn. They only care if you have any connection to Israel.

    • NonKoolAidDrinker

      Pure BS. Ahmadinejad is almost an “oulier” he’s so much darker than the average L.A. Persian. The typical L.A. Persian is pale in the winter months, light brown in the Summer months.

  8. Husaayn

    Robert – You’re a very intelligent guy but your statements on Islam are almost always inaccurate or colored with an animosity towards Islam/Muslims that really is below your grasp of history and also your general empathy towards human beings.

    The Islamic conquest of Persia did not decimate the indigenous Persian culture. It did decimate the oppressive landed nobility who rallied around Zoroastrianism and Persian identity against what they viewed as uncultured desert Arabs imposing their power on a decadent empire. They fled to the east of the Iranian plateau and fought the Muslim armies who were encroaching east and who had by now Persians, both Muslim converts and not, in their forces. This could partially explain why Persian culture is so entrenched in Tajikistan, geographically far from the origin and center of Persian culture in SW Iran. It’s because the eastern provinces were heavily inundated with Persian Zoroastrian exiles fleeing the Muslim conquests and the east was a base for Persian counterattacks against the Islamic armies.

    That is far different than destroying Persian culture. In fact, most contemporary historians would agree that the Islamic caliphates actually continued developing and Islamicising the pre-existing Persian accomplishments in government, economy, literature, philosophy, etc.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamicization_in_post-conquest_Iran

    Many of the great minds of Islamic civilization were of Persian descent, Al-Ghazzali, Rumi, Ibn Sina, etc. In fact, the development of Arabic grammar and philology as an actual scholarly discipline was largely under the aegis of Persians.

    Iranians still celebrate Nowruz, a pre-Islamic holiday as well as many other thing that are strictly Persian so the idea of Persian culture being dismantled by the advance of Islam is false.

    • “Genetically, Iranians probably have little if any Black in them. Your average German has more Black in them than an Iranian.”

      What are you smoking? There is Negro blood all around the Indian Ocean rim because of the slave trade.

      Slavery was only abolished in Iran in 1929. Where did all those slaves go? I’d say that the dark complexion of many Iranians answers that question.

      • Cyrus

        “Negro blood?” Ah, a White nationalist type, I presume. :D

        I already said above that along the Southern Persian Gulf coast of Iran, you meet some seriously dark folks. Some rather African looking. This is due to thousands of years of coastal trade between the Southern Arabian Peninsula, and the Southern Iranian Plateau. Arabs have been interacting and intermixing with East Africans for thousands of years. Not shocking at all. Was some of this due to slavery? Sure. The Arabs loved the idea, so anywhere they went, so did their form of slavery. Mind you, they enslaved everyone, including Iranians, Caucasians and Central Asians, Slavs, to name a few. The Portuguese even imported slaves to their short lived colony at what is now Bandar Abbas.

        As far as the African slave trade existing in Iran, I just don’t buy it existing beyond the Arab influenced coasts, and the short lived Arab occupation. It sounds like revisionist history by guilty White scholars trying to point the finger at others, especially the current “bad guy” of the west. Kind of like claiming pogroms in Iran that never took place. Rather common now days.

        Iranians genetically have more of an Asian genetic component than anything African. Not that there is anything wrong with Africans. They just didn’t interact that much. Look at a topographical map if you have to, to see what I mean. If anything, it was the Iranians themselves that were made slaves by the Arabs, and a number of other conquerors throughout history.

        What was outlawed in 1929 was indentured servitude. I.E most of those slaves were other Iranians or Turkic folk for the most part. Not a big racial element there. Still practiced at the time amongst nomadic tribes, even beyond 1929. Again, not shocking. African slaves were never imported to Iran in the millions like into the Arab nations, or the “New World.” Those dark Iranian features you mention, meaning brown skin, has plenty to do with the environment.

        Again, go consult a map.

        • I would very interested in seeing some evidence for Black genes anywhere east of Iraq. Even north of Iraq, it evaporates. It’s nonexistent in Jews, Kurds, Armenians, Georgians, the Caucasus. I assume it’s nonexistent in Iranians, Afghans, the Stans, Pakistanis, Indians, Bangladeshis, Nepalese.

          There are few to no Black genes anywhere east of the Zagros or north of the mountains of Iraq.

          There are no Asians with any Black blood at all.

    • Cyrus

      Husaayn, you come across as an apologist.

      • Husaayn

        Cyrus – I’m just correcting what Robert asserted as an absolute statement. There was no destruction of Persian culture wholesale. The fact is very few whites (whether Christian, white nationalist, capitalist, socialist, etc) have a good grasp of the Muslim world and resort to gross oversimplification to make some point.

        Was there tension between Persians and Arabs? Of course there was, there was even a literary movement during the Abbasid times called Shu’ubiya which was Persian Muslim literati writing about the greatness of Persian culture. The Persians were able to get their rights through the brotherhood of Islam.

    • Cyrus

      Persian culture was “chased” into Central Asia by the Islamic conquerors???

      LOL!!!

      Husaayn, you sound like you are reading this right out of a text book published by the Islamic Republic!

      The “Persians” were there 13 centuries or more before the Arabs ever “chased” them in, and other Iranian tribes perhaps 10 centuries before that. Hell, that is the their theorized place of Origin. They originally came from Central Asia.

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_languages

      The truth is, early Islam was a lot like Judaism. The Arabs weren’t looking for converts after they conquered Persia. Hell, it took them decades just to tame the place anyways, and their inroads into the present day “Stans” was minimal. Most Iranians converted later to avoid paying that “special tax” that was so revolutionary 13 centuries ago, and in fact were converted by other Persian speakers. It also didn’t help matters that Shiaism caught on in popularity long before the official “conversion” during the Safavid dynasty. Ever wonder why? Ever wonder why it was it was Shia clergy egging on Halaku Khan to sack Baghdad? Or Tamerlane for that matter?

      The bottom line is that the Arabs conquered the place. They effected the culture permanently. It took the Iranians nearly two centuries to cast the invaders out, and in the mean time, everything from their very own names to their own alphabet changed, let alone their own religions. To this day, most Iranians view the Arab/Muslim invasion as the worst event in their nearly three-thousand years history. Period. Nothing else comes close. Not Alexander the Great’s invasion. Not the Turkic invasions(they are seen as favorable, actually), and not even the Mongols or the Russians and English. No, even rather devout Muslim Iranians will mouth off about it at times. At least the educated ones. They can’t help it. I don’t blame them. They may be Muslims in some form, but they never lost what they were before, despite everything.

      No, those Arabs defiantly left their mark. You might not call in devastation. I call it one hell of an attempt at cultural genocide. The Sassanid Empire may have been in decay in the 7th century, but so what? All empires come and go. The notion that a barbarian invasion that attempts to wipe out one’s historical existence is some how needed, is a sick joke at best.

  9. cursed

    Robert your post is great, as are the comments.

  10. Pingback: Linkage is Good for You: Three-Day Weekend Edition

  11. Manoochehr

    Those who have not seen many Iranians, need a picture of some Iranian crowd or gatherings, I have a good picture for them,go to this URL : http://www.tehran24.com/tehran/links/tassvir/index.html , then click on the picture and again one more click to enlarge it , this is a picture of about may be 300 Iranians somewhere in Tehran , you will see for yourselves , that they are all white people..

    • sam

      Manoochehr,
      How do you explain those in the picture who are brown or dark-skinned?
      Second of all, MOST do look white, but i can also find white-skinned north-indians like kashmiris, and white-skinned afghans, not to mention white-skinned Turks, arabs and jews – so having white skin doesnt really make you more closer to europeans/americans than your neighbours. Other factors like the envirronment also affects skin colour – not race/ethnicity.

  12. RiverInCambridge

    I’ve always believed that Iranians are Caucasians, whites. They are white in appearance and have all of our features to bear.

    I’ve read that the aryans come from Old world Iran, i believe the article was on stormfront.

  13. persian-zartoshti

    Hi
    I read all the comments and some were baseless in my opinion.
    1- Ahmady nejad is not persian. his real last name is Sabourchian and he has Jewish roots.
    2- Khatami is from Yazd and he is completely Persian.
    3-Khamenei has an Azeri father and Persian mother.
    ====================================
    To the guy that said Arabs or Muslims did not try to destroy Persian culture.
    1-Omar Ibn Khatab your second Khalife ordered the destruction and burning down of Persian libraries THE BIGGEST OF THE KINDS AT THE TIME.
    2-They forced people to speak Arabic.
    3-Did you ever know that your second Khalife was killed by Abo lulu or simply Pirooz Nahavandi WHO WAS PERSIAN???
    Do you know why he killed them? I leave that to you to find out to see what he did to Persians and their children.
    Omar hated Persians…

  14. Omid

    good forum guys…cyrus you have some good things to say….and yes the only lame comment was by Shawn who was demonstrating that it is possible to shit out of one’s mouth.

  15. A Kurd

    For Real you have to know. That Kurds have the right to seperate because we kurds are divided into four what are the Iranians expecting? That a kurd wants to live either with an persian than with his real kurdish Brothers? I am a Kurd from Sine(Sanandaj) and I want a free Kurdistan for a Nation of 40 Mio

    • Sorna Javadi

      persians are the closest ethnic group to kurds infact they are close cousins of one another what we are suffering from is a bad government in iran this has effected every one the same regardless of ethnicity and tongue

    • Cyrus

      Ah, please. You are Kurdish nationalist type. Go educate yourself a little.

      On second thought, don’t. It’s gonna be more fun watching the Turks and Arabs kill you off. :)

    • incognito from iran

      go to hell Kurd
      We Iranian wont let you dissolve our country.

  16. bugun

    hi guys
    I read your comments but I as a citizen of Iran and from Tabriz city in north western of Iran should say that some comments aren’t correct.
    race and genetic aren’t absolute rule. for example Iran and middle east always has been highway for migrations of lot ant different ethnic ant human groups.middle east is located in the middle of
    three continent and naturally Iranian people should possess all characteristic of Asian, African and European communities. and pure race is a tale.

    notions about Jews in Iran are different and necessarily Ahmadinezhad’s opinion about Jews isn’t all iranian’s opinion and as well proShah’s(Los Angeles) opinion about Jews isn’t all iranian’s opinion.I have no problem with Israel and jews but they should respect to Palestinian rights.

    article’s author has wrote that Azerbaijani turks seriously have no tendency for separation from iran but I should say that azeris are only ethnic group in Iran that they twice have established independent state whit azadistan (1918) and azerbaijan(1945) names.of course they don’t use terroristic and military way and they follow civil and democratic ways.

    iran’s leader Khamanei and ex president Khatami are seyyed(arabian origin that spread Shiite islam in iran ).khamanei’s father is from ashtian (markazi province and they are persian ) and his mother is from kashmar(khorasan province and they are prsian).in addition khamanei was born/grown in mashhad city(persian).khatami’s mother is azeri and is from yazd(persian).

    • Cyrus

      I get what you are saying, and I agree.

      Well, they claim to be “Seyyed,” but find me a Mullah who doesn’t? For them, the greatest thing in life is to be from Mohammad’s clan. AKA, and Arab.

      Kind of like a lot of Turkic leaders claimed to be descended from Genghis Khan over the last few centuries. Or how every White Southerner in the U.S claims to be related to one Confederate General or another.

      Everyone’s got an idol.

  17. A Kurd

    @Cyrus you are damn Nazi i hope you will burn in hell with your leaders.
    @sorna Javadi. Wrong the closest ethnic group to Persians are the Afghans and Tajiks. Kurds and Persians are just as same related as a Polish and Russian. Please try to understand that we kurds want to live together not divided by wrong Borders.

    • Cyrus

      Rad! I’ve never been called a Nazi before! That is so awesome!

      • Cyrus

        Oh, and in all fairness, you guys don’t have a chance. Sorry. Enjoy what you got in Northern Iraq. That’s your best bet. Not gonna get much more than that anytime soon.

        Kurds are such a brainwashed lot. I can understand wanting your own nation-state, but you guys REALLY go too far with the propaganda sometimes.

        • A Kurd

          Nobody called you Nazi? Propaganda? WHAT ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT YOU DAMN NERD!

          Someone who says it will be fun to see how Kurds (humans ) will get killed isn´t racistic?

          The only brainwashed stupid idiot is you! This land is our land it belongs to the people who are native to this lands. And occupied by you! Iran will be attacked sooner or later.

  18. aah

    Hey Rob, I’d like a count of the times you approach a pathetic downtrodden creature from some pissant country and inform them that they are really white and a smile breaks out on their faces. What up? Do you enjoy this shit. Humiliating these fuckers. Whitey rules so everyone wants that. I’d be much happier if you came up to me and said “Man, you hung like a bro”. Now that would make my day.

  19. bugun

    I have an article that clearly explains facts in Iran.I offer to read this article:”Iran: Tricontinental Nexus for Y-Chromosome Driven Migration”.
    http://www.yhrd.org/files/b465c9a4e956626445689b1dd11409ef27e60d0f.regueiro2006.pdf

    Cyrus khan@ I think you are ethnically a persian or fars. my purpose from my last comment is that unfortunately non Iranian and even Iranian authors and writer dont know about iran’s verities and realities.

    and about kurds I think that as Europe communities experienced sociological revolutions in three or two centuries ago and was born new countries and nations , now middle eastern communities like kurds are going to change their situations. middle east are changing and cannot stop this changing stream. as in Europe borders ware not holy, now in middle east borders isn’t too.

    • A Kurd

      @bugun so true it will change.

    • Cyrus

      I am not technically “Persian.” Not that it really matters. I am more than familiar with the culture and region, plus I have the advantage of an outsider with related ties, looking in. :)

      As for the “Middle East,” there are way too many artificial countries as it is. More aren’t needed.

      Ever heard of the colonial strategy of “divide and conquer?”

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divide_and_rule

      Western Europe’s borders have far more meaning than the borders of most Middle Eastern and Central Asian nations.

      After all, who do you think created these modern borders, anyways?

      • A Kurd

        ah come on man what are you talking about? look at Europe. on the same size of Iran you can find 4-7 different countrys. The only reason why this region is so unstable is because of such big no sense countrys like Iran or Turkey. While every little ethnicity enjoy liberity in the middle east 4-5 different ethnicitys have to live under some other.

        • Cyrus

          While every little ethnicity enjoy liberity in the middle east 4-5 different ethnicitys have to live under some other.

          That’s fine by me. I can live with that.

        • A Kurd

          you know that I just made a grammer mistake and you know what i mean. While every ethnicity in Europe enjoy liberity, in middle east 4-7 different ethnic groups have to live under one other.

        • Cyrus

          Where did you make the grammar mistake?

        • JohnnyG

          Russia is bigger than Iran. Actually it’s bigger than everyone else in the world.
          Russians are European, white as snow.
          And the Commonwealth is even bigger.

  20. bugun

    This text has very unreal reports and information about present day Iran.Persian isn’t a major ethnic group in Iran, but you have said Persians constitute 51% of all Iranians and Azerbaijanis constitute 27%. This numbers that you have reported, are political and faked report. Iran’s central government always prevent ethical census because it influences Iran national security. Only official census for Iran’s ethnic group was established by Iran’s army. Colonel Panahian in his book, National Geography of Iranian Turks, reported results of this census that Azerbaijani Turks population constituted 36% of Iran’s population. This census is only official and acceptable report. In addition, education ministry of Iran has announced last year that students with Persian mother tongue constituted 30% of all Iranian students. Those two official reports refute your writing.

  21. bugun

    what you mean with “artificial countries”?
    look at the Europe, before the 18th century, when nationalism emerged as a distinctive movement, states usually were based on religious or dynastic ties; citizens owed loyalty to their church or ruling family. Concerned with clan, tribe, village, or province, people rarely extended their interests nationwide and Before World War I began in 1914, the major European powers included Britain, France, Italy, and the empires of Germany, Russia, and Austria-Hungary. The Ottoman Empire also controlled territory in Europe. After World War I ended in 1918, the makeup of Europe changed dramatically. Germany and Russia (later the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics) gave up land, while Austria-Hungary and the Ottoman Empire were broken into several smaller states. Poland was reestablished as an independent nation. New states included Finland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Czechoslovakia, and what was later known as Yugoslavia and look at today’s Europe which of empires and borders , you claim they were natural or unartificial, are existing. in Europe new nation-states were created because every nation or ethnic can change it’s destiny.who can determine artificiality of this new country ?
    I think Persian people fear that non Persian awaking movements threaten Persian’s hegemony in Iran and this factor cause that you say some countries are artificial. Iran hasn’t disintegrated until because Islam factor has delayed nationalism consciousness of middle eastern communities. as we saw in Europe , growing of middle class and weakness of faith to religion will allow to growing of nationalism.

    Dear Cyrus
    sociological evolution of Islamic and Europe communities don’t happen simultaneous.in contrast with middle eastern community,Europeans are three century up front.

    • Cyrus

      Your knowledge of Middle Eastern and European history largely sucks.

      All the Arab countries are “artificial.” They are the result of colonialism. The British drew the lines between nations arbitrarily, and solely for their own benefit. These borders and basically meaningless, and only serve the ruling few.

      As for “Persian People” fearing ethnic minorities “rising up” in Iran. That my friend, is a pipe dream. With the exception of some Kurds and the Balouch, it just ain’t gonna happen. Not even the Arabs in Iran want to separate. All the other groups as so “Persianized” that in effect, they cannot even comprehend secession.

      Now, run along and go care about all the Palestinians. I am not thinking that you are Iranian. Maybe another Pakistani pretending to be Iranian. We get SO many of those, here on the Internets. Your phrase usage and knowledge errors gave you away.

      Cheers! :D

  22. bugun

    dear Cyrus@
    thank you for that at least you accepted arabs are existing in countries that you remarked them as “artificial”.
    as you correctly said Britannia drew the lines arbitrarily and this action include all of middle east borders.as a fine example I explain present day Iran that historically has had multiethnical and multicultural identity with distinct territories and states.but Britannia discovered reza palani(latter reza shah pahlavi) from gajar’s stables and started to destroy and deny of nonpersian states, cultures, languages….
    I bet you don’t know about “mamalek mahruseye Iran” (united states of Iran) that Azerbaijan was one of this states and now it has been divided to several provinces .

    Dear Cyrus@I remembered Baku in 1986 that nearly all of it’s population were using Russian language and most of people hadn’t secession tendencies. this position was very disappointing for me. but now look at North Azerbaijan and Baku. Russification politics couldn’t change identity and language of Azerbaijan because even big power like soviet union don’t able to fight with national awaking flow.
    again I bet you don’t know about Iran.I am form Tabriz and in spite of 80 years Persianizatin politics, Azerbaijani Turks don’t use Persian (Dari or Tadzhik ) and even hate from this Afghanistani language. in Tabriz, Zanjan,Ardabil, Urmiye and other cities of south Azerbaijan nobody use Persian ( Dari).I think you and other Iranians that were exiled to los angles should come Iran to see/face facts and realities.

    Dear Cyrus@
    way Pakistan?
    Persians have a unique habit that they like to accuse opposites to foreign countries and powers

  23. persian

    im persian.your article was very interesting for me.black or withe!it was my question about Iranian people for several years.i got to a result finally.iranian in the north places in iran almost are with.in the south almost people have dark skin.but you cant sa iranian are withe or not as you cant say americans are with or not!we have blond , black , olive, eastern(yellow)….for example kurds and gilakis and mazandaranis have many blond but in kerman ,yazd ,bandar abas and khozestan we have many olive and a little black.in east we have many yellow skin and in center we have with (black eye and hair) and among of azeris we have some blond and many withe and even olive.im persian from center of iran im olive but my parent are with.

    • NonKoolAidDrinker

      “white” doesn’t mean blue eyed blondes in the US or anywhere else in the western world. Nor does it mean lireally “white” skinned. It’s a euphemism for caucasians, except perhaps very dark skinned Arabs.”Olive” skin is definately within the skin color range of “white” people in the US – Italians, French, Southern Germans, even many WASPs have “olive” skin.

      • Olive” skin is definately within the skin color range of “white” people in the US – Italians, French, Southern Germans, even many WASPs have “olive” skin.

        None of those people consider Middle Easterners as a White.

        You Indians are funny. A bunch of dark-skinned “Caucasians” running around trying to tell White people that they are actually racially Asian, and Middle Easterners are “white.”

        Good luck with that!

      • olbodala

        French and southern germans have non olive skin,only the Italians,spanish,north africans or turkish immigrants have it.

        • Leo

          Way more Europeans than Italians and Spanish have olive skin. Balkan peoples, southern French, Greeks, Portuguese, Slovenians, many Austrians and Swiss, many Russians, etc all have olive skin. Look at people like Roger Federer or Rudolph Martin. They are Germanic with olive skin.

  24. A Kurd

    @Persian still talking about we. there is no we in my world we are not a part of you and will not let us assimilate to be persian

  25. A Kurd

    and what is all that about white or not. Iran is a big (too big) country. The people in southeast like Kerman are most not Persians but Belutch people. The people in West and Northwest are Kurds and Azeris who also do not consider themself as persians. The Persians up to North like in Teheran mazandaran, gilan look like Azeris and other Caucasians. People of Isfahan and yazd look like a mix of Iraqi arabs and caucasians, people of Yazd look Iraqi. The south costs like hormozgan have even black people due to slavery.

  26. Emarian

    So sad seeing teenage Persians getting brainwashed and manipulated by their parents (even in the West!) to keep hold onto a large mass of earth which they had under control many, many decades ago.

    • Cyrus

      No idea what you are trying to say here, big guy.

      • Wade in MO

        “No idea what you are trying to say here, big guy.”

        Well, I believe that’s a Kurdish flag in his avatar. With his ” keep hold onto a large mass of earth which they had under control many, many decades ago” remark, I’m guessing he’s complaining about Iran’s hold on part of the kurdish areas.

    • Dyako

      Everybody who think the Persians are less radical and chauvinistic than Turks or other Middle Eastern People just because they act like liberal westernized people in the West must be blind. They can´t share anything with other Nations either you want to be Persian or you are nothing. Fortunately they are not all like this but a big group of them (even in the Western World).

  27. bahman

    I think we are all human and this is not important except in the eye of a politician….
    Sorry for that: this is a racist dispute!

  28. Bahman

    Note the safavid and ghajar dynasties in iran were azeries but they didnt ever claim to create azeri country!this is a joke.they both created persian dynasties as i know as the capitals where in tehran and esfahan!
    they had wars with ottoman turks so how could they have been claiming azeri or torkish kingdoms.i have read some books of europians traveled to iran in that era with the exact phrase written : “the king of qajar said that a a human can be nothing but he can be a tork!” so you can see their sympathy.
    as the outhor wrote : “i can never find two countries hate each othe like these!”.of course fortunately that hate between iran and turkey doesnt exist
    today.
    another example is that when king(shah) Abbas safavi sent agents to central europe for cooprating against powerfull ottoman empire the agent told :
    “the king says i am afolower (or i mean from the person) of cyrus”.
    so you can see they were not azeri or turkish dynasties at all!
    before those kingdoms :
    before mongol attack and after islam there were no persian or turkish empires at all unless there were some local kings supported by caliph in baghdad!all the iran and other places divided to some parts each under ruling of one agent of caliph.These are the facts.please stop saying azeri or turkish kingdoms after islam!this is a lie.
    the idea of south azerbaijan or (free!) kordestan are created not bye azeries
    or kurds but they are derrived from the idea that “IRAN IS TOO BIG”
    and “Iran has the potential to become a powerfull state” developed in unitedstates and former soviet union.damn on both of them.

    • Cyrus

      Couldn’t have said it better, myself Bahman.

    • A Kurd

      keep pushing all of your problems away. By telling your self “that all this is a Game of Outside”.

      You know nothing about the Situation of Kurds and other minorities you don´t know how many Kurds were deported from Urmiye their homeland to Khorasan just because they wanted to reduce the kurdish influence on this Region.

  29. radi

    bro ..i’m Iranian…….. and Khatami is not a German professor …. Khatam Kari is a job in iran – most in Isfahan ..the name Khatami is taken from this job and even he is not a professor

    and 99% of iranian people are WHITE!
    yea ahmadi nejad is not persian…. he is a hybride – collored skin guy from somewhere near Afghanistan he is a yellow skin man

    and those arabs are NOT related to us …1400 years ago they attacked persia(iran) and destroyed our culture .. our names …our armies ..our kings…. they ruined every thing and most of the iranian people hate arabs because of that

    and by the way WE HATE OUR GOVERNMENT and we are not terrorists

    YOU DONT KNOW ANY THING ABOUT US…………ANY THING

    • Cyrus

      Radi, who are you talking about?

      If you mean Robert, he knows a lot about Iran and Iranians. More than 99.9% of Americans. Plus, he is open minded. He likes to ask questions and learn about “us.”

      So lighten up a bit. :)

    • johnUK

      “and those arabs are NOT related to us …1400 years ago they attacked persia(iran) and destroyed our culture .. our names …our armies ..our kings…. they ruined every thing and most of the iranian people hate arabs because of that”

      I thought it was Alexander the Great that destroyed the Persian Empire?

      What do Iranians think of Azeris and Kurds?

      • Wade in MO

        “I thought it was Alexander the Great that destroyed the Persian Empire? ”

        That was WAAAAAAAAAAAY earlier. Alexander the Great – 300s BC
        Arabs camelfuckers – 600s AD

    • A Kurd

      dude what is all that about?

      like I mentioned Persians from North look like Azeris, Persians from Central and South look like Assyrians.

  30. yashar bugun

    as an Azerbaijani Turk from Iran, I think Azerbaijanis and Kurds and baluchis aren’t former humans who Persians know. national awakening among these communities has risen and Persian government along with Persian people are totalitarian. these non-persian nations have referent culture, art ,dance , music and language in comparison with Persians (originally Daris or Tajikis like Afghanistan ). the problem of Persians is that they dont want to accept this reality that non-Persians have right to live freely and right to protection of their cultures and lands. this totalitarian belief is current among persians and specially new-persiansed persons (assimilated).

    • yashar bugun

      different=referent

      • Shaituni

        The problem with people like you are that you are agitating for something that is going out of date. National ethnic identities are changing rapidly in Europe as countries like Germany accept millions of Turks, to become German citizens. So get over your out of date ideas and realise that Iran and Turkey and most Asian countries are far ahead of Europe in terms of ethnic integration and harmony. You do not need independence. It will destabilise and fragment the region only to the benefit of US oil companies and European pseudo-liberals. Federalism recognising ethnic differences is the way forward for Iran. Integration with Turkey and Caucasus and central Asia is the path to a form of social stability akin to the EU. Your ideas are decades out of date and simply dangerous. No country like Iran needs to be fragmented into small units, at a time when Europe is incorporating more and more diverse peoples into its framework. Your talk is of reckless recidivism. And as for rubbish about animosity in Iran. I have two Azeri cousins by marriage, several friends and i do not recognise your divisive talk designed at stoking up social resentments. No society is perfect but Iran has worked well for centuries on unspoken social contracts which you clearly know little about. And you who is supposedly Azeri, talk more like a Soviet one , make little reference to how wealthy and comfortable Azeris are in Iranian society. Khamanei? The Army? Bazaars? I think you must be a Soviet mole or troll.

        Size karshi nasil davrandik?

  31. husayn

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/06/middle_east_iranians_react_to_cartoon_row/html/5.stm
    these are persians and by the way the elamites are the dravidians!
    the africans in south iran came by trade and slavery the elamites were a significant the dravidians are a significant race!

  32. husayn

    above is brahui dravidianThe Brahui or Brohi (Brahui: بروہی) are a distinct ethnic group of about 2.2 million people with the majority found in Kalat, Baluchistan, Pakistan, but they are also found in smaller numbers in neighboring Afghanistan and Iran. The call themselves Baloch, and are part of the Baloch tribal system. The Brahuis are almost entirely Muslim, usually of the Sunni sect.[1] They are mentioned in the Afghan National Anthem as an ethnic group of Afghanistan.

  33. husayn

    Presently Brahui is spoken in Sistan va Baluchestan, Pakistani Balochistan, Afghanistan, Turkmenistan, Sindh and the Gulf Arab states.

  34. husayn


    brahui song there are faris people and sythians in balochistan kurds are indeed from a frais people scythians are another aryan race u can tell them apart and again the brahuis are a northern dravidian tribe who mixed with faris people and other aryan groups

    • Cyrus

      The Scythians, aka the “Saka,” were an ancient Iranian group from Central Asia. They’re decedents are probably all over the place, from Western China to Eastern Europe.

      • husayn

        they originally came from where south russia is scythia was their kingdom kurds are from medes not scythians maybe very possible after the 28yr reign the medes gained control again some of the scythians were absorbed into the medes and also persian empire but the faris kurds and faris people of iran same look very handsome people

      • Anoshiravan

        What are you talking about? I myself am originally from Iran, and who says that we Persians are blonde and have to look as white Europeans? Have you seen the pictures, photos from the way we looked around. 5000 years ago? I think your comments are funny and are to a large extent formed by white supremacy (western) Ideologies. It is quite ironic that the oldest Persian reminiscent of middle-Persian spoken in the southern parts of Iran, etc., local villages south of the province of farce, Hormuzgan, Bushehr, and Kerman. I come from Bastak, a little west of Bandar abbas. We are more Persian than the people of Tehran, Tabriz, Mashad, Esfahan, and all these cities. We do not use as much Arabic and Turkish as you do, we also have more respect for our Persian culture, customs and practices. We therefore have left traditional clothing, music and food derived from the ancient Persians. And we are defenitaly not “white” or europeid looking peoples, maybe some small minoreties look kind of white. Are you telling me that Iam not native of Iran, just because I am darkskinned with black hair? You telling me that brown people of Iran are immigrants? Are you fucking kidding me? Racists and ppl like u will turn Iran into peices. you need to blend in among Westerners that you have fair skin, surgery nose and blond hair? Certainly it is true that the majority of us Iranians, Afghans, Pakistanis, North Indians, Iraqis, and Arabs are caucasoider in racial terms. That does not mean that we are generally “white”. Hitler philosophy about the aryan race was totally irrational and wrong. Aryans were never blonde or white looking ppl my son. Those blonde white looking iranis u see are probably from azeri dominated regions in north, and also among kurds and other non-persian ethnics. This white blondi iranis also can have georgian, macedonian, viking ancestry. As I said we are not of this blonde white looking barbarian race and if an european called me that I am white and looking like them, I would be offended. Same thing if an african or asian told me I look like them, I would also be offended.

        • cyrus1

          lady, you have taken offence by my comment because you misunderstood me, i got angry at that ape for saying iranians are brown, because when looking at brown people as a race, they are defined as negroid races, like in north africa and mexico(afro arabs). it does not matter if you have the same wheatish skin color as they do, if you are iranian, then you are caucasion raced(caucasion race are not only europe). i have seen ancient iranian painting, they are whitish to wheatish with dark hair and eyes, im not saying because they are caucasion they must look like europeans,
          you misunderstood, you must not call yourself brown, rather middle eastern, skin color means nothing, the race truly means something, take a german or european and a jew, they have the same skin color but are very different in race, you cannot judge people by color, and that stuff about nazis are mostly properganda, they had peaceful relations with all non european countries. and when did i say persians must have blonde hair?

        • mott 69

          Afraid Cyrus1 is right on the money here. SIEG HEIL!

        • cyrus1

          Sieg heil to you comrade

        • mott 69

          Danke schon! Nichts zu danken. Sehr angenehm!

  35. husayn

    kurds are from same race as persians same features were as punjabis Scythians have different features and there are still scythians in iran

  36. husayn

    brahui balochi

  37. husayn


    these are tamil muslims

  38. husayn


    same tamil muslim song different singer

  39. husayn

    http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/1626606/posts
    kurds and jews! very close from ancient times jews are not the only ones with the cohen ydna many iraqi kurds have this as well!

  40. husayn

    http://www.corbisimages.com/Enlargement/42-15828111.html
    these are kurds both my grand dads are iraqi kurds and both looked very middle eastern not european

  41. husayn


    persian sunni this is faris people

  42. husayn

    Collected from adh-Dhahabi’s ‘Siyar A’lam an-Nubala”:

    1 – Abu Hanifah an-Nu’man bin Thabit:

    Abu Yusuf said: “Abu Hanifah was well-formed, was from the best of people in appearance, the most eloquent of them in speech, the sweetest in tone, and the clearest of them in expressing what he felt.”

    Hamad bin Abi Hanifah said: “My father was very handsome, dark, had good posture, would wear a lot of perfume, was tall, would not speak except in reply to what someone else had said, and he – may Allah have Mercy upon him – would not involve himself in what did not concern him.”

    [6/535] Imam Abu Hanifa was sunni Imam from Kufa Iraq and of farsi heritage

  43. husayn

    The Muslim historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (c. 915) recounts a tradition that the wife of Lud was named Shakbah, daughter of Japheth, and that she bore him “Faris, Jurjan, and the races of Faris”. He further asserts that Lud was the progenitor of not only the Persians, but also the Amalekites and Canaanites, and all the peoples of the East, Oman, Hejaz, Syria, Egypt, and Bahrein.

  44. husayn

    first off on a spiritual side i have dreamt of Prophet Muhammad more than 8times the last time was in the dream i am being told i am not from the family of the Prophet PBH and he is standing on the left of me and i ask him what about the indian people he just had a big smile on his face this is what made made interested in our background!i will jump to some of my most recent dreams the first one i had was i dreamt of a explanation of the dravidians in dream it said hamitic in type with straight hair and were also from egypt after this dream i dreamt of the fertlile crescent in syria and it is showing the dravidians came from the fertile crescent in syria close to the sea and weird thing i read a article on the brahui dravidians they claim they are from aleppo i looked this up and indeed aleppo is by the sea and in syria 1 or 2 days after this i dreamt of the dravidians coming out of upper egypt not ethiopia i sea map it was not the eastern coast but upper egypt i see a arrow showing the direction of travel into syria and i see arrows going east through the middle east through south iran into northwest india and indeed the elamites were all in southern iran not the sumerians and this is the direction of travel of the dravidians . long time before this i dreamt dark people entering india through northwest then also settling in bangladesh and then tamil nadu, also i have dreamt of different hamitic races and ones with straight hair looking like arabs and brown indians with straight hair very different then the other negroid types of africa also i dreamt of some ethiopians and somalians like us same fine features straight hair looking like brown indians. also i dreamt of egypt i see egypt in the dream and i am being told our family is from afro arabian people!weird and the elamites were a middle eastern hamitic race and they are also are from shem through his son elam hence the name elamite arabian is meaning from shem but elamites did not have a semitic culture or language also i dreamt of myself in iraq i see all of iraq and iran and in dream it is saying the faris races of iraq and iran are same as people of the gulf well i came across something after i dreamt this our sunni imam says on a tradition that lud son of shem married shakbah daughter of japheth and the faris race comes from them lud was also the fore father of the amalikites the canaanites the people of oman the gulf egypt hijaz this is in wikipedia! and before this i dreamt of lud and his wife and i in dream it is saying we are not semitic and then i am holding lud in my arms like a baby and what imam tabari said is true because the faris is not semitic and also come from him also i dreamt of a fair lady and in dream it is saying the people of gulf and iran are from her and also saying the indians are from the middle east but from someone else an in fact they are from the scythians who are from magog son of japheth

  45. husayn


    these are tamils when dravidians mix with the aryans of south they come out pretty

  46. husayn


    tamil muslim singer

  47. husayn


    south india kerala name Malik ibn Dinar RA was a tabi i successor of the companions, student of Hasan al BasriRA some say he was sahaba but what i know he is tabi i . Tameen al AnsairRA and Ukasha RAare two Companions of the Prophet PBH are buried in southern india

  48. husayn


    muslims of kerala song

  49. husayn


    tamil muslim songs

  50. husayn


    tamil muslim song

  51. husayn


    tamil singer and by the way the Pallava southern indian kingdom was persian from the parthians

  52. husayn

    http://www.iranchamber.com/history/articles/india_parthian_colony1.php
    this proof the parthians(pallavas ruled southern india have a look at the singer shihab in above post many like him in the gulf

  53. sanam

    dont be sure that all iranians hate arabs.

    • Cyrus

      Nah, just 99%. Kind of like how you can find the occasional Jew who loves Germans, or Armenian who loves Turks.

      • Dave Coe

        Your Iranian? What is your personal take on Jews and Arabs. Whats up with all these Persian Zionist here in LA?

        • Cyrus

          Well, I am “Iranian-American.” Personally, I like Jews a lot, and hate Arabs. I do not think the nation or Iran, or Iranian-Americans, should have an opinion on the conflict between Jews and Arabs, one way or another. None of “our” business. I mean that as an American, as well. :)

          As for Iranian-Americans being very “Pro-Israel” and “Zionist,” that is a very vocal and rich minority. They are called “Shahis,” and are the failed followers of the Shah’s old failed regime. They are by nature very “neo-liberal” in their world outlook, and fall into bed very easily with American neo-con types. They will support anyone who is against the current Islamic regime in Iran, and could potentially have themselves returned to power.

          In truth, the majority of Iranian-Americans, i.e “Persians,” who are not Jewish, don’t really care much for Jews. If anything, they tend to view them as rivals in the marketplace, and very capable ones at that. As for Arabs, unless the Iranian-American is a Muslim fanatic, and a handful here actually are, they views Arabs as pretty much less than human, and an ancient enemy. I don’t care what a Persian says to your face. I know what they are thinking on the inside, when it comes to their old Arab “friends.”

          Does that help clear it up for you, Dave?

  54. Ramin

    Hello Mr. Robert,

    I’m an Azeri from Iran. Born and raised in the city of Tabriz. My paternal grandfather moved here from the Qaradağ region close to Azerbaijan-Armenia border. It is said that my maternal great-grandfather move to Tabriz from Tbilisi, Georgia. I can tell you that almost 80% of my family have white skin and there are some with green eyes as well. My father was blond as a kid. I have a white skin tone that stands lighter than many Iranians from Tehran or Central and Southern Iran.

    You are absolutely right about some Iranian nationalist (as they claim themselves) that people of Iran are close to Aryans and in fact they insist that they are the true Aryans. But these are only lies!!

    I know they bore you with their constant talk about their pride, culture, history and everything. I apologize you on behalf of them.

    Since I live in Tabriz, East Azerbaijan province, I can tell you that people of the following ethnic groups can be considered White:

    1- Kurds (I have relatives so it’s a first hand experience! :D)
    2- Azeris (In general people around me and on the streets!)
    3- Gilaks (They live in the Southwestern Caspian sea region, our neighbors!)
    4- Mazandaranis (Live in Southeastern Caspian sea region)
    5- Tats and Talyshis (live between Azeris and Gilaks)
    6- Qashqais (a nomadic tribe who speak a language close to Azeri)

    Other that this, the remaining population is either Arab (South and Southwest regions of Iran), Baluch, Farsi-speaking people of Central Iran, Turkmens of Khorasan region…There is another ethnic group called the Lurs and they live in Luristan region just North of Fars province…They speak a dialect of Farsi as well…

    But out of all these ethnic groups only Farsi-speaking people of Central and Southern Iran try to claim all the credit for history and culture of this land. Therefore nowadays there are local movements who advocate separation and among these Kurds, Azeris, Arabs of Khuzestan region (Southwest of Iran) and Baluchis can be mentioned!

  55. Ramin

    I hope it can help for the discussion here!
    Sorry for some mistakes I made in my previous comment after all, English is not my native language! :)

  56. Ramin

    One more thing I’d like to add, although I mentioned the word “White” in my comment, I believe that in the world that we are living currently, these topics are nonsense and what matters is humanity and caring for this planet and the mankind, like MJ used to sing: It doesn’t matter black or white :).
    But unfortunately some of people of the country I live in, are suffering from inferiority complex so they bring up the topics of race, Genetics, ethnic issues, etc…

  57. Hi Robert, I’m from Sardinia, I don’t understand vert well where you put Sardinian people in your scheme ..anyway I look more white than you (if the guy in your avatar is you) and a lot of Sardinian as well ..that’s very strange.

    bye

  58. Farhad

    I am a Tajik originally from Tajikistan. I say Tajiks-Iranians-Afghans are very mixed, but overall are white. I have seen Greeks in my university with fairly dark skin tone.

    Some of the comments made here regarding the “Islamization of Iran” is very inaccurate. Modern Scholars like Richard Bullet, Donnet have shown that “Jizya” (poll-tax) was not a factor for conversion to Islam in Greater Iran. For the average Iranians, there was already a Sassanian taxation system in place. Infact, some scholars have argued that Sassanian taxes were actually higher than later Jizya (poll-tax). So, Jizya was not a factor for conversion, at least not in Sassanian controlled regions.

    The “Islamization of Greater Iran” was a complex and lengthy process that spanned about 300/400 yrs, it didn’t happen overnight. Richard Bullet in his “conversion curve” has shown that conversion rate was very slow at the earlier Umayyad Caliphate. Infact, most rapid conversion to Islam occurred under the native Islamic Persian Empires like Samanids, Saffarids, Tahirids, some of whom were directly related to Sassanian courts & Rulers (For example: the founder of Samanid Empire was Saman Khuda, a direct descendant of Sassanian Bahram Chubin).

    More on Samanids:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samanids

    The case of modern-day Iran is slightly different because Iranians where initially majority Sunnis, like the neighboring Afghans & Tajiks, but later Iranians were converted to Shia by the Safavids from 16th century onwards.

    Here’s a PhD thesis from MIT University that talks about the Islamic Architecture under the Samanids and the conversion of Islam in Greater Iran. Please read Chapter II: Sassanian and Sogdian and conversion to Islam.

    http://dspace.mit.edu/bitstream/handle/1721.1/41720/222332133.pdf?sequence=1

    Note: Sassanian refers to Iranians and Sogdian refers to Tajiks.

    Regards,

  59. anton

    While I can understand the differences in people, I really don’t see what does it matter who is white or not or white looking. I am white and couldn’t care less in that all people want to be happy, healthy and there is good and bad in all races. Anyway, there is beauty in all races too.

  60. Dyako

    Dudes this Husayn is some sort of retard Tamil Muslim who tries to prove the world that Kurds, Persians, Ossetians are of Dravidian Race. He does this to feel closer to this groups. :D . He usually uses long bearded old man to prove his weird fantasies.

  61. Dyako

    this Husayn guy is everywhere on the Net where there is a Subject about Persians, Kurds, Afghans, Azeris and Ossetians. :Lol:
    He uses old extrem atypical Persians, Azeris, Kurds etc and compares them to the lightest tamil Muslims (He himself is a Muslim Tamil) and tries to prove that they all belong to one Group. He has complexes.

  62. hasan

    Here is a fact for you all…..the Ghom-e Maad, about 4,000 years ago migrated south from Ukrain to present Iran.
    Before that Ghom-e Maad were somewhere in Europe, and they screwed up that area, that is in farsi….”Reed” beh onn mahal.
    Later on they figured that the area was in present Spain, and the are ghome maad “Reed” to that area was found.
    They named it “Maad-Reed”, or currently known as “madrid” the capital of Spain.
    This was a short History trivia

  63. sam

    “Iranian nationalists hate Arabs, so you might think they like Jews, but they hate Jews about as much as they hate Arabs. They especially hate Israel. “Mak bar Israel!” is a common cry on Iranian forms (“Death to Israel!”)”
    how can you possibly say more than 70 Million Iranians living in Iran today all hate Jews when the second largest Jewish population in the middle east after Israel is living in Iran at this moment.
    Don’t be stupid and let the propaganda shape your ideas about people.

  64. Dota-Player

    As I said in the other thread, North Indians and Persians are not white and neither were the Aryans. Whites are Caucasoids indigenous to Europe whereas the Persians and North Indians are Caucasoids indigenous to Asia.

    People place too much emphasis on skin colour when the later is merely pigmentation which is a function of the enviorment. North Indians and persians clearly have caucazoid phenotypes such as straight and soft textured hair, lean bone structure, pronounced jaw line ect… We genetically cluster with Whites and our dark hair and darker skin is merely a result of mutations which have taken place due to the climatic conditions of Asia. Just google the pics of Bollywood actors such as Hrithik Roshan, Salman khan or Saif Ali Khan. Or you may try some actresses such as kareena kapoor or preity zinta. They look white, but clearly are not.

    • Hacienda

      “People place too much emphasis on skin colour when the later is merely pigmentation which is a function of the enviorment.”

      I used to think this, until I got older and wiser. Take away the great barriers of language, sigma 2+ difference in IQ, you have the great barrier height, skin lightness/darkness, morphology. Of these, it may seem that skin color would be the least important, but it isn’t working out that way. It seems to me skin color is a great separator, roughly in importance to height. It’s rare to find men or women socially befriend others when there is even a not so great separation – 3 or more inches. Skin color works similarly, if you see a difference in lightness between a few shades, you will rarely see social friends. I’m not saying these a immutable barriers to friendship, just that it takes other things to overcome these differences- class, education, religious ties, restriction of movement. OTOH morphologically, people are quite diverse. Whites can have all kinds of morphologies, as do blacks, Asians. You really get the full effect with mixed peoples- Mexicans, Arabs, Indians.
      It’s unfortunate that darkness to a large extent in the world has become associated with lower potential. Indians in the US, and black Americans to a certain extent (to the degree they are much livelier than their African cousins and apparently are smarter) are helping to breakdown that stereotype.

      But, I think there are deeper issues about skin color than what I described above. It seems to me that there are deep perceptual, automatized things going on about color, the amount of photons, radiation in the air that seems to be embedded in people and races. Something which whitey and blacky having learned the painful lessons of 19th C race speculation of the kind I’m doing now, seems to want to eradicate or at the least run away from. Hell, I would too, if I found out my race was on some God damned yin-yang treadmill.

  65. India

    Well, South Asians are Caucasoid but not European. We have similar facial structure to Europeans but 99.99% of the time you can tell a European from a South Asian, even among those of use who are pretty light skinned. If some South Asians tend to get mistaken for other groups, it tends to be for West Asians and Middle Easterners rather than Europeans, although ocasionally it can for Southern Europeans, but still very rare.

  66. India

    I agree about Khatami above. Minus the turban, he can easily pass for an European.

  67. Eric Cartman

    “Many Azeris look very White, even moreso than Iranians”

    Actually, I think many of them look like Jews. Mousavi is a good example.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mir-Hossein_Mousavi

  68. olbodala

    Iranians(persians) are mainly a mix of semitics(50%,arabs) and dravidians(35%) with a little bit of european and turkic blood(15%),so they are not white/europeans,but middle-easterns.

    In fact,they were semitics/dravidians conquered by white/indo-european tribes.
    But,they are a great and ancient people,it’s not the color of skin who matters.

      • Wade in MO

        “Iranians(persians) are mainly a mix of semitics(50%,arabs) and dravidians(35%) with a little bit of european and turkic blood(15%),so they are not white/europeans,but middle-easterns”

        There is no such thing as semitic blood, turkic blood, or dravidian blood (at least not in the purely biological sense). Those are language groups. Kobe Bryant speaks english. Would you call him a “great germanic basketball player”?

      • That you in the avatar? Funny, you’re a dead ringer for Al Pacino, I swear. Lucky guy.

      • Iran Azadi

        do not take him serious this is just another stupid Indian Faggot who is also active on Storm Front.

    • Wade in MO

      “Why are glaringly brown, semetic iranians/persians OBSESSED with trying to be White? PLEASE TELL ME! ”

      I have a better question. Why are obviously cracker northern-european descended americans obsessed with trying to be aryan (aka ancient Iranian)? Why are they obesses with trying to say they are ancient greeks/romans. Looks like a bunch of ” ‘gypshunzs” in the making.

      • Dota

        Or Khazars claiming to be semitic Hebrews =p

        But jokes aside, the average Persian on the street looks quite Indian/Pakistani. Just google some of those ‘death to america’ rallys and take a look at the average joe in Iran. What’s ironic is that the ancient Persians were proud to maintain a dictinct non European identity. This is why hellinization was such a failuire in Iran.

        • Wade in MO

          “What’s ironic is that the ancient Persians were proud to maintain a dictinct non European identity. This is why hellinization was such a failuire in Iran”

          True, but we don’t want to contaminate our thoughts about the past with modern realities if we can help it. I believe the idea of a “non-European” or “european” identity doens’t even make sense back then, at least not they same way it does now. If we look at ancient Europe civilization as the meditteranean and see it as spreading from there, then we could also say the Germanic people who defeated Rome in the Teutoberg Forest also maintained a distinct non-european identity and civilization like the Persians did. (Which I think is correct. I believe the later mixing of the ancient meditteranean cultures with the western euarsian peoples (Germanics, Slavs, Hungarians, etc) created modern european civilization.).

        • Yah, a lot of Northern Indians have similar features to Persians. I’m sure there is a connection. More so than Iranians have with Arabs. I’ll rarely guess an Arab for and Persian. Indians, sometimes I do.

        • Yes, but when I meet Persians and start talking to them, I say, “You guys are White, right?” And they beam a smile as wide as my butt crack and say, “Yes!” I say, “You’re White, just like us, right? Like Europeans?” That’s when they get that million dollar smile and say, “Yes!” Now, granted, these are Persians and they are upper class, but still. One guy said he was related to “the Europeans.” It’s like they see themselves as some kind of “Europeans outside of Russia.”

        • They are weird Robert. Neither either really East nor West.Lets just leave it at that… :)

          Many of the Iranians you meet view “being white” or European as the top of the mountain. After all, these people ruled the planet for the last five hundred years, and developed virtually all scientific knowledge and technology. They built the modern world. Who the hell wouldn’t have want to be counted as “white,” at least up until very recently. They are Caucasian enough, and speak an Indo-European language, so why not try to be counted among “the winners?” That is the language of Iranian immigrants to the west.

          I suspect though, that as the world continues to realign it’s points of economic and political power in the decades to come, Iran will turn itself more “East.” It has that luxury.

      • I’m just amazed anyone is interested in any of this. Azeri, Iranians, whatever…Only on Robert’s site.

        • Ah, they’re all bunch of towelheads, rage-heads, ragheads, whatever. :P

          My Mom works at a community college. After 9-11, the English 10 teacher got this stupid and long essay from some dumb White hillbilly going on and on about the rageheads (rage-heads I guess) misspelling of ragheads I guess. I thought it was funny.

        • Oh, the things I hear everyday. I work in very conservative area in SoCal, and the bullshit I hear. It is endless.

          What floors me, is that people who know my ethnic background, are even more aggressive about. They take pleasure in being bigoted pricks, and knowing they can get away with it.

          Hence, why I created that “angry” blog.

          Even worse, if they find out your “wanna them liberals,” they get militant. They view you as a traitor. A cancer on American. These people are fascists.

          Lately, I’ve been around a lot of Marines getting back from Afghanistan, and those that serve in Iraq. They know I am ex-Army, but do not know my “background.” The things they have told me…I’m talking war-crimes. The pleasure they take in having taken part. It makes me sick. Disgusted.

          Our country has gone barbaric.

        • Davey

          The US Army has reduced the required IQ for recruits over the years.
          Back in the day they were liberating the death camps. When they took over Japan, the Japanese were shocked at how well the Americans treated them. The Japanese thought they would be all shot in the head, raped etc, in revenge for Japanese atrocities – many committed suicide because of these fears.

          Nowadays, it the US who are setting up camps (Gitmo) and committing atrocities in far-off lands. The last breath of any empire is military and colonial over-stretch and hubris. Greece, Rome, Mongols, Germany, Japan, Britain, Soviet Union, USA.

        • Reality Check

          Cyrus,

          What floors me, is that people who know my ethnic background, are even more aggressive about. They take pleasure in being bigoted pricks, and knowing they can get away with it.

          They view you as a traitor. A cancer on American. These people are fascists.

          Lately, I’ve been around a lot of Marines getting back from Afghanistan, and those that serve in Iraq. The things they have told me…I’m talking war-crimes. The pleasure they take in having taken part.

          Our country has gone barbaric.

          Ha, I bet they’re all Joos….

          Davey,

          Since all the innocent wittle American boys were sent to the slaughter over a supremacist country in the Middle East.

        • @Reality Check:

          Ha, I bet they’re all Joos….

          I can say with a certainty, that none were Jewish. In fact, most Jewish folks I know wouldn’t stoop to that kind of bullshit in polite company.

        • johnUK

          @Davey

          Nowadays, it the US who are setting up camps (Gitmo) and committing atrocities in far-off lands. The last breath of any empire is military and colonial over-stretch and hubris. Greece, Rome, Mongols, Germany, Japan, Britain, Soviet Union, USA.

          No it is just the anti-Christ US/British/NATO/Islamic/Jewish NWO realigning and expanding its empire for world domination where the non European and western countries of the world which includes Serbia and Russia will be ruled by Islamic terrorists and Jewish organized crime.

        • Wade in MO

          “In fact, most Jewish folks I know wouldn’t stoop to that kind of bullshit in polite company.”

          Well, you’ve just met one who does. You notice how she tries to insert jews into everything, even places where no one mentions them?

        • @Wade

          “Reality Check” is Jewish?

        • Wade in MO

          ““Reality Check” is Jewish?”

          Yes.

        • @Wade:

          “Reality Check” is a cunt.

          I thought her post was a bit bitter…

        • Reality Check

          Wade,

          Reality Check” is Jewish?
          Yes

          What makes you so sure? According to our records, you’ve never attended any Bat Mitzvahs.

        • Reality Check

          Wade,

          Well, you’ve just met one who does.

          Could you stretch your analogy any further? “Inserting Jews into everything” is somehow equivalent to bragging about bloodthirst and war-crimes?

          Besides, this isn’t exactly polite company.

          You notice how she tries to insert jews into everything, even places where no one mentions them?

          Only gentiles are allowed to do that? Or are Jews always supposed to follow the gentile lead?

          Well, I’m just trying to fill in the holes that you missed. It’s called parody, sweetie.

          Or is it too sophisticated for a guileless gentile lamb such as yourself?

        • Reality Check

          Not to out-nitpick you or anything, but shouldn’t the relevant question be whether Jews are relevant to the subject at hand, not whether someone else has already mentioned Jews?

        • Wade in MO

          “Not to out-nitpick you or anything, but shouldn’t the relevant question be whether Jews are relevant to the subject at hand, not whether someone else has already mentioned Jews?”

          With you, both statements are the same because you make jew comments where no one was even talking about anything that was specifically about jews more than anyone else.

        • Reality Check

          Wade,

          Why is it that I always have to repeat myself even for the wunderkind goyim?

          Well, you’ve just met one who does.

          Could you stretch your analogy any further? “Inserting Jews into everything” is somehow equivalent to bragging about bloodthirst and war-crimes?

          Besides, this isn’t exactly polite company.

          You notice how she tries to insert jews into everything, even places where no one mentions them?

          Only gentiles are allowed to do that? Or are Jews always supposed to follow the gentile lead?

          Well, I’m just trying to fill in the holes that you missed. It’s called parody, sweetie.

          Or is it too sophisticated for a guileless gentile lamb such as yourself?

        • Reality Check

          Cyrus,

          Maybe if you hadn’t taken that shrapnel to the head you would have been able to parse that the thrust of the hostility in my comment was directed toward Davey and his ilk (which obviously includes Wad, btw).

      • I think it’s cool that they are trying to be White. It’s great. Whites are great. After all, I’m White, and I am very happy and proud to be White. I look in the mirror and smile every day. At me, at my great people.

      • Iran Azadi

        The Topic on Stormfront was not started by Europeans. The User was obviously just another Hindu.

  69. Saeed

    its not true about us.
    Iranian are white but some are light black because the weather Iran have all the weather types,Cold=whiter people middle=Beautiful ones and south of Iran most have darker skin but we have lots of white and blond girls which are portogunes origin in South but we arent Arab and we are most white and the stupid who wrote this page must know sth thing to change his mind.
    Iranian most dont like Islam,We hate our Goverment,We hate Arabs and we dont have any problem with Judes its Goverment which has problem not our people so you should change your mind and study more before you make a nation bad in other Eyes.

    • All right Ali Baba, you’re banned. Now go ride a flying carpet right on away from this blog.

      • Wade in MO

        “All right Ali Baba, you’re banned”

        What the hell is your problem? Are you just banning everyone now?

        • He insulted me. You can’t do that on here. You know that, Wade, come on. He called me an idiot. You can’t do that.

          You know what happens to this site if I let people bash away at me? It turns into a zoo run by the trolls. There are many sites out there like that. They are ruined. It has to be this way. All you regs are pretty much ok. No one’s going to ban you. What are you so worried about. Relax. Bro. :)

    • Hey “Saeed,” you got an Arabic name. Anyone ever tell you that? It means descended from the prophet. Either way, you sound like an asshole.

  70. nazbol

    “The last breath of any empire is military and colonial over-stretch and hubris. Greece, Rome, Mongols, Germany, Japan, Britain, Soviet Union, USA.”

    The collapse of the Mongols, Japan, Germany, USSR were all tragic.

    • Xera

      LoL why are you including Japan, it was one of the most short-lived empires out there and everything they had was based off the West; they were a bunch of white wannabe Asians that just bullied a bunch of other Asians, and that’s all they pretty much did. Oh and the Japanese are pretty fucking racist because of their “empire” and think they are a superior white descended people with great history when they did jack shit and tried their best to be “ancient, sophisticated, & European Asians”, despite being one of the least attractive looking race of people just like all Asians are (especially the Males). The moment they faced a great power, is the moment they got their asses kicked. Don’t tell me bullshit about the Russo-Japanese war when the entire Japanese force was trained & armed to the teeth by British agents and naval officers with a stake in the region.

  71. Saman the Iranian guy

    Olbodala. It’s actually the other way around. Original Iranians/Persians are the ones wh conquered th Dravidians and semites of ancient Iran and basically raped them. Not to mention that the Persians constantly controled all of the mid-east, including all of Arab land (Just look at the acheamenid, Parthian, Sassanian, or safavid Persian empire and dynasty maps), and the Persian soldiers, Kings, and nobles were enouurage to take foreign non-Iranian brides. You go to any Arab countr and they all look different depending on the Arab state, but most in Iran look the same.

    Also Iranians are closey related to racially, even today, to mediteranians and latins of Europe. The skin color depends wheher they’re from the south (Darker) or the North (lighter skin wise).

  72. olbodala

    Dear Saman

    Yes,i’m agree,Persians/Iranians are a great civilization,without zionist jewish embargo,your country will be much more powerfull,and i have a lot of respects for Iranians people,but you have arab/semitic and turkic influence in your gene pool(it’s not a fault).

    I’m French,and even if us pure stock French are mainly of celtic and germanic roots(genetically speaking)or sub-nordic romanized,there’s also mediterranean influence in the extreme south(Aquitaine,Provence)(iberian/basque,italic,some moorish with northern admixture),and it’s not a shame to recognize it.

    • Iran Azadi

      tard stop fooling around. You are not a French. You are just another Hindu obsessed with Iranians.

      • Dota

        I take it you dislike being compared to the lowly Indians? :p

      • olbodala

        I’m not hindu,i’m French,but if Iranians are indo-europeans,why your ancestors fought against byzantines?
        And,now it’s proven,Islam was created by the jews/talmudists and your persians ancestors in order to use arabs for many reasons:
        For the jews:take off jerusalem to the hands of Byzantines in order to built their so-called temple.
        For the persians:expel byzantines and christians of middle-east(even if a lot of these christians were arabs).
        Moreover don’t forget the mamilla slaughter(in jerusalem)in 614 by the jews,arabs(proto-muslims,known as agarenians during this time) allied to Persians.

  73. Saman the Iranian guy

    Olbodala. Go check the ancient Iranian/Persian statues, or the pics of Cyrus the great, Darius the great, Shapour, or Babak khoramdin, and then compar their features to the typical average Iranian of today, and you’ll see that we still look alike. Btw, I’m not denying us having some semetic background, I mean who is pure nowadays? We were mixd with semites etc.. again, when the Persians and Iranics invaded the elamites and the other dravidians, and the Persian soldiers, nobles, kings etc.. were encouraged to take conqured people’s women as wives, to create botherhood so to speak. Pus, the Persian empires were huge and I’m sure immigration happened alot.

    This is coming from a Northern Iranian btw. I don’t consider myself white even though I have pale skin and look totally mediteranian European. I just considermyslf Iranian/Persian as most other people from Iran do. Ethnicity and nationality matter to us matte alot more.

  74. Saman the Iranian guy

    But one thing I disagree wth you on, is that you said we have some Turkic background also. This isn’t true at all. I mean who in Iran looks asian what so ever other than the Turkemens? Afghans, Iraqis etc.. seem to be the most mixed with Asiatics, alon with Turks from Turkey obviously in the mideast.

  75. Darius

    Aryan = Iranian
    Iranians are the start-point for the European culture – including Christianity, which is a reenacting religion of the Iranian Mythra cult.

  76. Silly People

    My mom is Persian and my dad is Arab. Neither side of my family considers themselves white and don’t really care to think of these things along these lines. My mom is tanned and has black hair and black eyes. My dad has green eyes, lighter skin than my mom and brown hair. My Arab dad is more “white” looking than my supposedly “white” Persian mom.

    The concept of “white” is really stupid. And I find it very annoying that everyone is trying to claim whiteness. It’s disgusting. Arabs seem to be ok with just being Arab – whether your black, yellow, purple or green. A lot of my Persian friends can’t just be Persian they have to be “Caucasian” or “Ayran.”

    As far as the whole hating each other thing. Seriously, Persians need to stop hating Arabs and blaming “barbaric Arabs” for all of their problems. And Arabs need to stop reacting to Persians. Both are so annoying.

    • Word. You seem to be a very sensible people in this age of wild tribalist racism..

    • Wade in MO

      “Persian friends can’t just be Persian they have to be “Caucasian” or “Ayran.””

      Persians and Northern indians really are aryan. That is a term that long predates Hitler or any white supremacist ideas from the US. Why should persians give something up because a bunch of american crackers act like morons?

      • Silly People

        All I’m saying is what is considered “Aryan” today is not what was perhaps originally meant by the word. So I don’t understand why it’s necessary to even still use it. It’s embarrassing as a half Persian when people who are Persian say they are Aryan because Europeans (white people) think that Persian are trying to be European.

        I’m sorry but it’s embarrassing. I’m proud to just say I’m Persian and not have to make myself palatable to anyone by saying “Well Persians are actually Aryan.” Yes I get that the concept of “Aryan” predates Hitler. But the reason why Persians should give up this concept is because these are anarchic and barbaric concepts. As are all concepts of “race” or whatever.

        I don’t think that being “white” should be the standard of acceptability and implicitly that is what Persians are doing by having to constantly claim whiteness (or as Europeans see it). Many white people don’t consider Persians white – regardless of the logistics of the term so why even give white people more of an ego boost by saying well “I’m white to.” White people are already so obsessed with themselves. Let them be obsessed with themselves without dividing the rest of the world. I’m not going to play into these stupid nonsensical games.

        As far as I’m considered. I’m half Arab and half Persian and that’s that. Whether I’m black, brown or white just doesn’t matter. I’m not going to allow “American crackers” think I’m anything like them in anyway or that I aspire to be like them.

    • Dota

      “””A lot of my Persian friends can’t just be Persian they have to be “Caucasian” or “Ayran.”””””

      I suspect this is more the case with Persians living in the west than the ones in Iran. I Could be wrong tho

  77. Demon

    The adoption of European standards of racial profiling are pathetic! To think that Iran has been multi ethnic for 2500 years + and enshrined diverse peoples rights when Europe was utterly primitive, speaks for the low level of this garbage talk. Who gives a damn if you are white or brown? The whole world is mixed anyway. Persians have lost one of their core values which is strength in diversity if they talk in terms of blond and blue eyes as somehow superior and blacks and browns and Arabs as inferior. Such garbage is fit only for primitive nationalistic thinking. Grow up . Talk about real issues- cultural values, appreciation of arts, good social customs. These things make Persians what they are, which is civilised, gentle and humane not their melanin expression levels. Arab scholars, Afghan scholars, Persian scholars and Azeri scholars and writers and poets all contributed to a uniquely deep and spiritual culture that survived countless invasions. No external stirring up of racial hatred is going to undo this. Iran has mastered these issues for 2000 years which is why it is the large place it is today, despite losing most of its territory to Russian and Turkish imperialism.

    The whole thread of this website is based on a fundamentally flawed premise, presumably started by a Westerner, who has dictated the subsequent course of the debate into a degeneration of WASP style prejudice, that does not reflect the ethos of Persian or Iranian values. A few so-called Azeri trolls don’t make for a separatist movement. While Europe surges ahead with racial diversity through mass immigration, this debate seems to provoke the lowest common denominator of colour prejudice as the basis of a discourse which ranges from basic eugenics to huge geopolitical opinions, minimal knowledge of Irans history or ethos of cultural values. At a time when nationalism is dead and the US runs the world on the basis of a pluralistic multi-ethnic society , numerous people here seem to be attempting to revive a very recidivist interpretation of Iranianness to foster mutual hostilities between Irans long established communities.
    Such cheap talk for people who don’t have to live with the consequences of economic disintegration and geopolitical disadvantage that Iran would invariably incur if it followed the childishly prejudiced musings of many troll contributors to break itself up on the basis of racial disharmony.

    A mature pluralistic federalism respecting all peoples rights and extending across Turkey and the Middle East is the only way to be rid of these backward Nationalistic tendencies that are shown by Europe and the US to have no future.

    DON’T LET TROLLS DIVIDE YOU

    • Silly People

      I completely agree

    • mott69

      Hey, Demon- You’re dead wrong about a lot of things.

      Europe 2500 years ago was not utterly primitive. Tell the Greeks and Romans. An ancient European Greek kicked your Persian butt a while back.

      “nationalism is dead” “the US runs the world” Wrong. Wrong.

      Dude- you are an Iranian nationalist- who are you kidding?

      “a mature pluralistic federalism respecting all peoples rights and extending across Turkey and the Middle East.”

      What are you smoking? When will that happen? Maybe in 500-1000 years!

      • Demon

        Mott69,
        I guess you are some immature little 18 year old troll who whacks off on websites like this?
        The point is Lyndsey’s question was provocative- fine, but also there is an element of profound ignorance about Iranians – which if he claims he knows a lot about them- shows how far off the mark he is. Persia has been multi-ethnic for thousands of years. They long ago realised the need to harmonise tribal differences. that is also why Islam has been very durable in Iran for example, transcending racial and cultural differences to a far greater extend than Europe which has always looked down, even today ( remember the ‘Mud race’ comments…) on any kind of coloured peoples as inferior.

        I don’t smoke what you do thats for sure. If you knew anything about the Middle East- you would know there have been several reform efforts, and this is an ongoing process. Just like it took Europe hundreds of years to remove aristocracy from the equation and bring representative democracy to the fore. The French and Russian revolutions were not very long ago. Europes democratic credentials are no more than 300 years old and that relates to France in particular not the rest of Europe.
        Read Jadidisim espoused by the Volga Tartars, The Iranian Tobacco Revolution, Communism, Baathism, Secularisation (Turkey), social land redistribution reform programs in several countries.
        In other words there have been several reformatory attempts to modernise religion, state power and executive and modes of governance. This is an ongoing process.

        Obviously you never read Plato- as HIS democracy excluded women and slaves from the democratic process so admired by Europe. And slaves formed a large part of the population, so sorry- no representational democracy there. Further Plato advocated a ruling by Philosophers.
        If you have ever read Aristotle or Plato, then you can appreciate, that the common man would be instantly excluded, being intellectually inferior and could never aspire to to level required for Kingship as the philosopher king.
        So yes my Hellenophile- you can keep your Platonic democracy for yourself.

        I would also reiterate that the original question was framed within a Westerners (negative and racially prejudiced) way of thinking, and is exactly the kind of debate that provokes young Iranians into outbursts of nationalistic prejudice that are not in keeping with Iranian culture, but are with Western culture. These exchanges all add a little damage to the body fabric of the countrys unity.

        Iranians beware how they provoke you with seemingly innocent questions, don’t fall into their traps!

        Sorry Mr Lyndsey- you cannot divide people by such transparent provocations to make Iranians come to verbal blows with Azeris and Kurds, hoping to start a process of divide and rule. Your debate EITHER is flawed, devisive and politically perniciously motivated, or you know very little about Middle Eastern cultures, who do not obsess over a phenotypic argument.

        I am not an Iranian nationalist as clearly if you had read what i said, you would have seen i advocate broad based political co-operation. Read, then think, THEN reply…

        So troll off and find a target your age.

        • mott69

          Hey, asshole- I mean Demon…

          “Europe’s democratic credentials are no more than 300 years old?”

          European democratic tradition goes back to the Viking woden councils, the English Parliament , the Magna Carta, the idea of Parliamentary Democracy, and the American Colonies about 235 years ago.

          And yeah, the Republican Romans and Greeks started the idea of representative gov’t, ( briefly revived later by the Venetians).

          I have a degree in Political Science and History and a Teaching Credential, you insufferable little rag-head prick. And I’m probably considerably older than you, you lizzard-eating camel humper.

          No, I’m not a Hellenophile (where did you get that?)

          YOUR Facebook page states that YOU are the one who’s into Greek stuff, let the record show.

          Iran is a fucked up crappy country- mostly due no doubt to that awful “religion”- Is-Lame. It was fucked up under the Shah and it’s just gotten worse. Those Green Revolutions are a joke- no chance of winning.

          I have good friends who are Persian and it’s too bad their country has been a shithole for so long- I think highly of them as a people. (Or I used to until you came along DEMON).
          There is NO democratic tradition in any Middle Eastern, African or Asian culture.

        • Wade in MO

          “European democratic tradition goes back to the Viking woden councils, the English Parliament , the Magna Carta, the idea of Parliamentary Democracy, and the American Colonies about 235 years ago.”

          I believe San Marino has had some form of representative government for a long time and Novgorod did to until it was taken in by Moscow.

        • mott69

          Wade- You are correct about San Marino. Small place, tho.

          Novogorod was Rus- and they were Vikings, no?

        • Wade in MO

          “Novogorod was Rus- and they were Vikings, no?”

          Slavic – Viking mix (with finnic peoples too). I think that most of what we call “european civilization” come from mixtures of different parts of europe with elements assimilated from outside. People like nordicists, medicists, or extreme slavophiles seem odd to me. Rome and Greece are not modern europe. Ancient scandinavia is not modern europe. It is the interplay of these different areas (in varying degrees across different nations) combined without outside elements which form modern europe, and it started to happen in the “dark ages” and emerged into something even greater later on.

        • Wade in MO

          “Iran is a fucked up crappy country- mostly due no doubt to that awful “religion”- Is-Lame. It was fucked up under the Shah and it’s just gotten worse.”

          Yeah, but Iran was not always in the state it is in, even under islam. Many of the people we hear of as arab or muslim scientists were in reality persian speaking peoples. Iran is an extremely important country in the history of the world. It, along with much of inner eurasia, declined with the silk road. Desipe their rivalry, many of the classical peoples of Europe were persiaphiles in different degrees. Even Arrian’s account of Alexander the Great’s life is actually modeled on a book about Cyrus the Great called Cyropaedia written by Xenophon. We shouldn’t be too quick to dismiss Iran or think that they can’t be great again.

        • Wade in MO

          “Novogorod was Rus- and they were Vikings, no?”

          The other important part is that it was a merchant city. A lot of merchant city-states seem to have more republican type institutions.

          “Obviously you never read Plato- as HIS democracy excluded women ”

          Sounds like a great idea.

          No society would be called democratic is by democratic you mean that everyone votes. In America, we do not allow those under eighteen to vote. We do not allow those under eighteen to vote because their minds are not developed enough to make informed decisions. (Incidentally, this is why women should not be allowed to vote either.)

        • Wade in MO

          “YOUR Facebook page states that YOU are the one who’s into Greek stuff, let the record show”

          Where did you see his facebook page at?

        • mott69

          @Wade- I know all about Persia’s great history- they invented algebra among other stuff. They used to be awesome- a long time ago. What happened?

          Yeah, they could be great again- if they got rid of their insane religious fundamentalism.

          Merchant city-states were SMALL, VERY RICH independent entities. Perfect for experiments in republican gov’t. (which did not go very well).

          Re: Facebook page. Attempt at humor. I don’t have a Facebook account- they are a sign of lameness.

        • Wade in MO

          ” They used to be awesome- a long time ago. What happened?”

          Well, religion may play a part, but I don’t think it is the defining factor. The reorientation of trade routes off of the “Silk Road system” and onto the high seas really fucked them and Central Asia pretty badly. It also cause a large reorientation in other areas as well. China used to do a lot of trade through Central Asia, but after the Russia took control of large parts and the Qing Dynasty fucked the Jungars up the trade crapped out. Many areas once oreinted toward overland trade reoriented toward the sea in the last few hundred years. Hence we see the rise of Shanghai and Hong Kong in China. The Chinese naitnoalists even had their capital at a place that was sea accesable by a navigalbe river (Nanjing). In India, Bombay develped. Peter the Great founded a new capital on the Baltic. The twetnieth century revolutions in Russia and China took theit capitals back inland and further away from western influence. Iran is not as weak as some might think. If this inward trend continues we may well see another reorientation in trade. It wouldn’t have the drastic effect on the west like it did on central asia. Sea borne trade would still be important. It wou;d be essential for trade with the americas. But the new trade routes would be protected from western influence. Specificaly western navies. Whic would cause a potential decline in political influence. We may well see a powerful Iran within our own lifetimes.

        • Iranian

          Truth said very nice. Thank you.

        • Excellent way to look at it, Wade.

        • mott 69

          Mr. Sandman- I’m not really familiar with your point of view, but I’ll take your critique. I’m trying to mellow out, for the exact reason you describe.

          Here’s the problem- I never start the ad-hominem, the name calling, etc. If responding in kind when personally attacked makes me a jerk,oh well- bummer.

          I only respond negatively to what I think are off-the-charts outrageous statements. That’s not unreasonable, is it?

          The problem with this blog is: the only winners are the trolls, who come and go as they please, entertaining and frustrating everyone; and the blogger himself, who can just ban someone who is being a jerk to him.

          Everyone else has to either keep a cool head and somehow stay above the fray (like BAG), or risked being mercilessly attacked by the trolls, not being able to hit back at them at the risk of looking like them- like a jerk.

          When looking thru the posts, unless you know who started the squabble and why, it makes everyone look like jerks- including myself. Waahh. Bummer.

          So, Sandman- what’s your secret recipe for not coming off like a jerk?

          Enlighten us, oh Sandman!

    • Iranian

      I was referring to Demon when I said truth said very nicely. Iranians have always been multicultural and should be aware that this is their strength. They don’t even want to know about this kind of labeling.

      • mott 69

        Hey, Iranian- the post should have been titled “Are Ethnic Persians “Caucasians”?” That is not an unreasonable question…a matter on which reasonable people could differ, kind of minor point, but so what?

        Why are Iranians like Asshole Demon so longwinded, inaccurate and tiresome when comes to talking about themselves? Why do they object to anyone who is not one of them espousing an opinion on the subject of their culture?

        Answer- because they are ethnocentric, idiotic douchebags similar to Hindu Indian nationalists.

        Multi-Culturalism=Strength? Not generally. Their brand of Sh-itey Islam unites the country, is more like it. By the way, I don’t hate Iran. Ahmadinajacket is pretty cool, in a batshit crazy way!

        Truth said not-very-nicely. (/:=()

        • I don’t know Mott. Your level us “assholishness” can be off the charts, at times.

        • mott 69

          Ok, Mr. Sandman, I know who you are- Cyrus (duh). Why change your name?

          So, you are an Iranian-American who doesn’t like the Shah or Ahmedinejad. OK. So, you are a “Green Rev” guy? And you’re not Persian, one can infer?

          Well, now I know how I offended you- by insulting your Shiite religion. I will apologise for that.

          But- if people didn’t take religions so seriously, or were more secure in their beliefs, they could withstand attacks upon their beliefs in good humour.

          FYI- I don’t like any organized religions. I will insult all of them equally. Some are worse. Some are more harmless.

          I’m kind of a lukewarm “philosophical” Christian myself. Feel free to attack me for it. I’m cool with that!

    • NonKoolAidDrinker

      “Persians have lost one of their core values which is strength in diversity if they talk in terms of blond and blue eyes as somehow superior and blacks and browns and Arabs ”

      LOL What a candy ass argument! “White” isn’t defined as blond hair and blue eyes. Most Europeans aren’t blue eyed blondes. Most WASPs aren’t even blue eyed blondes. Many Europeans, even Northern and Central Europeans, have olive or tawny complexions. It’s a non-issue. A derailament. Persians are white and you know it! Tamils are brown. Veddhas are brown. Malays are brown. The average persian has no affinity to real brown people. They’re just “dark” whites. Case closed.

  78. Dota

    I agree strongly with what Silly People is saying here. The term ‘Aryan’ is outdated by a couple of thousand years and it seems rather ridiculous when people use it today. ‘Aryan’ is an ethnicity and not a race. If anyone were to ask me if I were an Aryan, I would respond and say: “No, but I am a descendant.” Unlike Race, ethnicity is socially constructed and is also temporal in nature. You don’t hear Iraqis referring to themselves as Sumerians do you? Today they are Arabs, despite still carrying the blood of their Sumerian ancestors. I’ll lay long odds that they have very little in common (genetically) with the Hijazi Arabs.

  79. Demon

    I doubt you got out of high school except on parole asshole. I doubt you have a degree in anything except trailer trash camp planning , and thats something considering the filth that spills out of your white trash mouth. Kuni- kir-am dehanat. What kind of school would anyone allow an ‘insufferable prick’ ( his quote mr lyndsey…) like you to teach their kids. You are a joker, and probably drunk.

    As the Greeks say – paramoo pipa malaka, or as the kazaks say- shishinanamsagan, or more frank in Russian- pashol na hui dalbayob suker. Or maybe you want some Chechen pigface: sunna beed ma beetsa hara stug.

    If you are the geriatric you claim to be then you will remember it was YOUR country that made Iran the crappy fucked up state it is today. You championed the Shah- yes you sweet tits, you championed him to ass fuck and torture any opposition, and you’re all sore in the anus now, because no-one likes you anymore and they threw him out and put their own shit people in, instead.
    I laugh at you, you sclerotic old fool with no class or culture.
    You may think that because Iranians sit meekly in America while they listen to an incorrigible bore like you pontificate about whats wrong with their country,( when your own is so fucked up, you couldn’t even send the president to New Orleans ….) everyone else has to listen to your crap with equal tolerance- fuck off.

    People like you just talk shite all the time about other peoples countries. You never even went to Iran you fucking desk jockey.
    You are full of ignorant racism and the funny thing is you’re probably a 1/4 polak , 1/3 romanian, 1/8 german and 7/8 shit.

    You have no cred, and no standing as a nation of vulgar bullies, no face in the world.
    Get real man, the days of Captain America are over, so spin on your own web spidey lover.

    • Dota

      @ Demon

      I can tell from your posts that you are not a fool, but you’ve still said some foolish things. Pride in one’s heritage is fine, but that should not give you the license to put down some one else’s heritage. I say the same thing to white nationalists too, so don’t deel bad. The democratic traditions of the west go back to antiquity, this cannot be disputed.

      That being said, I completely understand the source of your anger, I felt the same way a decade ago. I’m Indian, btw, and I strongly rejected the Aryan theory in my teens as I felt that it was a western attempt at undermining the uniqueness of my heritage. But nationalism is inherently ahistorical and frequently clashes with empiracal evidence. Anyhow, what I’m saying is that you’ve got Robert L all wrong. The reason he asks this question is because he’s stated before that he considers all caucazoids his family where whites are immediate family,and Asian caucazoids (north Indians/Iranians) are extended family. Your aggressive posturing is unwarranted.
      I get the impression from your posts that the west is exploiting an inferiority complex in Iranian socioety. Is this true?

    • mott69

      I’m not going to really respond to you anymore, Demon, because you are an embarrassment to your kind.

      You sure know a lot of big words, tho!

      And- you can cuss in five languages. You are so superior…

      I shall have a word with the immigration authorities concerning how and why a mistake like you got allowed into this country. You’ll be hearing from them soon…
      Bye, bye, asshole!

      • Demon

        And there we can sum it up- Mott69 like so many bullies relies on verbal bullying, and when he is outclassed by someone he derogatorily describes as a ‘lizzard eating rag-head’ he goes back to his trailer in a huff and just wont talk again.

        Well my frightened friend, unless you can expel me from my own country then your immigration comment is about as misdirected as your paltry insults.

        As for my Indian colleague well, i have been to India several times from Chennai, to Vizak to Delhi to Calcutta. I expect I could give you a run for your money on any number of topics – partition, Kashmir, Cricket, the Indian reservation system, BC’s and caste politics, naxalities or Communist Keralites + BJP and Congress- but I’m not about to launch off on India today, most Americans don’t even know what Asia is, let alone where to place it geographically.
        Besides i liked India so much I married one. ( Anglo-Indian- oh another subject Robert could launch off on, and educate the moronic elements represented by ‘Mott the Lizzard’.) The world is ripe with opportunities for more tawdry race speculations.

        As for Robert L- some of your stuff is undoubtedly good, but there is also an inordinate amount of garbage, and garbage commentary. I am not surprised you have to resort to Indie media, since your racism makes you instantly rather irrelevant mainstream.
        These ‘ethno’ conversations are utterly redundant intellectually primitive concepts and seem to reflect the vapid empty heads of the average white American man, who thinking he is intelligent picks up a keyboard to rant on about other peoples cultures with and insult with total impunity. But when the insults fly back- YOU CAN’T TAKE IT….

        Mott69- aka Lizzard Lover- I shall have a word with the authorities about your disturbing behaviour and comments which call into question whether you should be supervising kids alone…
        Who would want to be a US citizen today anyway. Those days are passed. Get on with being an ordinary country like everyone else.

        • All right Demon, you’re banned. You just called me a racist. You don’t get to do that on here. You also said my blog is full of garbage. I’m not sure if I like that either. Violation of comments policy. You’ve been verging on violation since you showed up, but I let you stick around until you totally blew it, which you just did. Now go ride your magic carpet back to the land of genies, if you will.

          And yes, that is correct, you don’t get to insult me on here. It’s a violation of the comments policy, which you should have read.

          You are correct that my race realism makes it hard to publish me.

  80. Demon

    And the illiterate peasant can’t even spell Lizard correctly. And you call yourself a teacher, you insufferable old fart without a cause….

    • mott69

      Very observant! I spelled that way intentionally!
      Why did you capitalize it? I’ll you why, because your English sucks!

      • mott69

        Oops! I forgot to insert an “it” in my second sentence!
        I’m waiting for the next “Rosetta Stone: English” sub-genius troll (like Demon) to point it out..
        Hey, at least my errors are “just” typos, and not indicative of a tentative grasp of the Anglash langlage!

  81. Dota

    Wade

    “We do not allow those under eighteen to vote because their minds are not developed enough to make informed decisions. (Incidentally, this is why women should not be allowed to vote either.)””

    Why do you say that? Do you believe that women are unable to look out for their best interests?

  82. Interesting, but as an Iranian, I refuse to believe this stuff. First of all, Iran was one of the many places the Aryans resettled in, and the country renamed itself to Iran to de-Hellenize its international identity and also was political nod by Reza I to Adolf Hitler (Though Iran, or Iran-zamin is what Iranians have called the area for a while). There is a national myth (nationalism has been very big in Iranian culture once the Qajar lull faded) that Iranians are Aryans (despite Greek, Mongol, Arab, Russian, and other invasions and cultural influences). By this time, the value of such a statement is arbitrary- for all its “Aryan” qualities, Iranians follow a religion that came from Arabia, their cuisine and philosophy has mixed with Greek, Indian, and Turkic influences, a large fraction of Iranians have Mongolian and Turkic in their family line, as well as others. I won’t lay the basic knowledge down and say “race” is a fabrication as it seems you don’t believe so; I’ll let you know that even if it wasn’t a fabrication, Iranian’s are not “White” and hopefully you see what I’m doing and ask yourself in that framework if Germans or Poles are “White”, and then realize how stupid the idea of race really is.

    This idea of Iranians still being “Aryan” became an idea of Iranians being “White”, especially after colonialism, UK dominance, Adolf Hitler, then US world dominance, and finally globalization. These factors have implanted the idea in many Third World nations that “White is right” and that people from America, Germany, UK, etc are superior. The people aren’t superior, but they had geopolitical advantages, made certain decisions, and took advantage of opportunities that propelled them to such power. Just like Iranians did during the Achaemenid era. It’s not an innate quality. Its logic. So many Iranians seem to think that by proving they are White they are at the same time:

    1) Distancing themselves from “Stupid Turks”, “Dirty Arabs” and “Smelly Indians” (Quoting common Iranian stereotypes here).
    2) Putting themselves on the same “level” as Europe, who they see as civilized, especially in comparison with the Arabs.

    There is a wierd relationship with Iranians and Islam. On one side, they are a very devout nation. On the other side, they think Islam is backward, Arabic, and sick. But one thing that Iran’s philosophical and cultural sphere has maintained since the early days of the Persian Empire has been a deep, solemn fervor. Iranian philosophies (Manichaeism, Mazdaism) think in bipolar terms- good and evil, and a battle of faith within and without each individual to determine which side wins. Its not hard to see that Islam, an offshoot of Christianity, which is an offshoot of Judaism, which was inspired by Zoroastrianism, which was the embodiment of these Iranian philosophies, would come to be accepted somehow in Iran. The fact that it came from Arabs, though, was not.

    The reality is this. Go to northern Iran, where the Azeris live, you will see white skin. Azeris are Turkic and originally their people migrated from Central Asia. Also, Azeri Turkish is an Asiatic language, while Persian is Indo-European (meaning it came from Sanskrit). You will also see white Kurds, white Luri, and white Persians. Go to the middle, you will see many like me (light tan with dark hair and eyes- what would be considered “brown” in US and what would have be shot by a street gang in Russia), also you will see this tan type up north near the Caspian Sea and even as far North as you can get, by the Turkish border. Go to the cities, you will see all types, and Go to the south and south east, you will see very dark tan and “Indian” looking types. Will you argue that Ahmadinejad is brown because he “must have an Arabic or Jewish person in his family” like all the Iranian nationalist types do?

    Skin color changes by clime and sun exposure over THOUSANDS of years and is a result of adaptation. Culture is an important factor but it is not inherent. It’s linked to food, water, resources, neighbors, ideas, and events that all come to shape and continue to do so, a group’s history. As far as “race” as a real phenomenon goes, there is no significant evidence for it. Spoken by an Iranian.

    • NonKoolAidDrinker

      “(light tan with dark hair and eyes- what would be considered “brown” in US”
      That’s not considered “brown” in the US. Only Stormfront nuts consider a Caucasian with a light tan complexion, “brown”. Brown in the US generally means mestizo and native blood Latinos, particularly Meso-Americans like Mexicans or Salvadorans. South Asians, Filipinos and Pacific Islanders in the US also use the term for themselves but in the media, “brown” almost always means non-white Latinos.

  83. Indra of the Aryans

    This whole blog by a ‘Robert Lindsay’ seems suspiciously very pro-Iranian promulgating a falsehood that Iranians are white.

    Modern genetic studies have laid to rest the ‘Aryan’ question, by showing that the R1a haplotype originates in India and that India is the Aryan homeland and progenitors of the modern European race and along the way the neighbouring Iranians being the first of the Indian outward migration. That is, Iranians are the Indian offspring.
    The whole myth of a white Aryan race coming down south was a myth and pitifully absurd (how likely was it big wheeled wagons made it through natural passes like the Khyber when even today on the HWY in a Land Rover you risk death!!!).
    The linguistic proof of how Sanskrit spread towards Europe to give rise to the Indo-European languages is not backed up by the discovery of the R1a haplotype showing a similar flow of genes out of India towards Europe.

    Case closed.

    So Robert you are partly correct…..Iranians are Caucasoid but not because of any Aryan influx from central russia or europe but from India!!

    All of the European races and ethnic groups except the non-Indo-European speaking groups are descendants of the ancient Indians that spread out from the home land Arya-Varta–>Bharata–>Bharat (India) meaning Home of the Aryans!

  84. Indra of the Aryans

    “The linguistic proof of how Sanskrit spread towards Europe to give rise to the Indo-European languages is ((not)) backed up by the discovery of the R1a haplotype showing a similar flow of genes out of India towards Europe.

    Case closed.”

    Error: ((not)) should be “now “, sorry about the word error

  85. mahdi4chaos

    the only white people in iran are azeri turks, persians are semites, u must be a lying persian, persians always use pictures of iranian azeri turks to prove themselves as whites and aryans, persians are true ass holes.

  86. hemed

    That was the worse article I ever read, first, Iranian people don’t hate Israel, Iranian government does it and Iranian people hate Iranian government, that’s why Green revolution happened almost 3 years ago. Iranian are not really good with arab because Iranian leaders are not Persian blood or Iranian, most of them have Arab bloods, but Iranian still don’t hate arabs. I’m really sorry for you because between thuns of famous stars Iranian in since you picked Aylar(porn star) as a Iranian who you want to interduce, well, you said you watched some of her movies, may is better if you don’t write any more article and just watch porno, I’m sure you delete my opinion of your article, but be a man and just think about it.

  87. Sia kir koloft

    I gota to say all u persian ppl who come here and leave ur 2cents r arguein about nonesense, some of u have good facts, bahman and cyrus as an ex, the rest are allaf oghdeyis like that kurdish retard and his fairy tales. the real deal is hate it or love it iran is what is left of that bigg ass empire we had and are proud of and who cares if there are azari, kurds, rashti or whatever. the sad truth remain that human nature proves to have these racist tendecies, no mater how multi cultural, educational, spiritual ppl are, at the end of the day some one will blurt out a racist comment wheter its at a china man behind a wheel, a black dude being loud,or a white guy like some one i don think i need to mention who apparently loves being white is very intellectual and open minded and well informed about our culture , tellin some ignorant persian(i assume) to go fly his magic carpet, which is a hint to be an arab after all,. at the end of all this wasted energy and sore finger tips/ lmao……. ps. I really do have a big sshlong. wake up ppl don hate or discriminate learn to love an appreciate. forget all this none sense who died and made any of these races king.

    • some of u have good facts, bahman and cyrus as an ex, the rest are allaf oghdeyis like that kurdish retard and his fairy tales.

      Thanks…I think?

      tellin some ignorant persian(i assume) to go fly his magic carpet, which is a hint to be an arab after all,. at the end of all this wasted energy and sore finger tips/ lmao……. ps. I really do have a big sshlong. wake up ppl don hate or discriminate learn to love an appreciate. forget all this none sense who died and made any of these races king.

      Grow up, and grow “a pair.” Just my advice.

  88. Sia kir koloft

    robby robby don ban me, i need ur blog to surviveeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee, sarcasm at its finest …..
    ye toop daram ghelghelie,
    mizanam zamin hava mire, nemidooni ta koja mire
    ta tah koone molahe mire,,(robby im not cussin at u if thats what ur thinkin, ur a cool dude who loves porn ) this is just a little poem by the late great hafez)
    Im ashamed to have wasted my time to contribute to this maddness… at the end I like to end on this last note…… wont somebody pls think of the children., mrs.lovejoy
    toodle oo

  89. tsa15@sfu.ca

    Ok, i’m iranian (persian) and I think that man persians and iranians are “white” as in caucasians with white skin and europid features but others are also not white because there are non-white ethnic groups that live in iran like baluchis that live in south eastern iran and look like pakistanis/indians. most persians/azeris lives in the north and west of the country (tehran is in the north) and they are closer to the caususes.

    to the people who say the ‘ones in the south are dark because of the sun” that sounds like ignorance. In the south there are arabs that live there and even minority of blacks that live there.

    also a lot of iranians don’t really get the labels white, black, asian etc. My dad
    for example thinks that race means nationality so he considers iranian a race, german a race, french a race. I live in Canada though and here people go by look or colour, black, white brown (brown which is not a race and i’ve heard it applied to east indians, filipinos, mexicans, arabs etc) and I look ‘white” and i’m caucasian so people here will refer to me as “white”.

    if you’re going to refer to me as race I consider myself white/caucasian but i’m certainly not european and I don’t consider myself like a european but persian. but it is hard to say that i’m not white because I look white even though I have dark brown hair now I used to have blonde hair as a kid and i know other iranians with light hair, coloured eyes and european looking.

    also when I or any other iranian claims to be “white” we are not trying to be like europeans. I don’t think any european is superior to me and neither do I think i’m european in any way. i’m persian and if you like to label me then i’m white/caucasian.

  90. Iranians are a Brown Mestizo'ish People

    What an absurd post. Do you honestly expect white European people to ever accept Iranians as their own? They are an alien people of questionable genetic-racial stock. They are a mongrel people, inseminated by centuries of alien invasions, including Mongoloid, Turkic and Arabic. They are the farthest thing from white. Light skin is meaningless without the features and the genetic history to substantiate claims of whiteness. My family is French, English and Belgian. THAT is white. Iranians are BROWN and neither my family, friends nor myself will ever accept them as anything else.

  91. Mary

    To the poster that wrote ” Iranians are a Brown Mestizo’ish People”- It’s clear that you have never met an Iranian. Iranians are actually genetically almost identical to Armenians. There is no sign of mixing in our genetical pool, probably yours is more mixed and “less Caucasoid” than ours because Iranians are CAUCASIANS. Period. You should accept that and stop living in a fantasy world. Iranians do not want to be “Europeans”. Iranians are proud of their Eurasian, Caucasian and Central Asian ancestries. And Iranians outside of Iran are actually accepted as WHITE by far “Whiter” people than yourself and your racist family. Even in Nordic Sweden, and even right winged groups in Scandinavia not only praise Iranians but also accept them as whites. Only stupid, uneducated and dumb rednecks in the US are speaking the way you do because they haven’t gone outside of Alabama or Mississippi and they can’t even see the difference between an Arab and an Iranian. Just google “Iranian protests 2009” and compare to any news shots of the “Arabic spring movement” and you will see major differences in morphology, regardless of skin color.
    You are a fool.

    • Blow it out your ass. To the average White American, Iranians are brown, and in the same boat as anyone from Morocco to Bangladesh. That’s a fact, jack…

      • NonKoolAidDrinker

        To the average “white” American, “brown” means Mexican, Cyrus. Nobody rational thinks Iranians are part of some big “brown” race that includes everybody from Morocco to India.

        • You just go on a keep telling yourself that, Sparky. If you say it enough times, and REALLY REALLY believe it, maybe it’ll actually come true!

          Oh, and if you haven”t noticed, most Americans ain’t that rationale. They also don’t much like wasting their time listening to some “raghead Osama looking curry-eater” like yourself, arrogantly explain to them how an Indian is somehow not and “Arab.”

          That’s a fact, Jack.

  92. Mary

    Oh and another thing, in Northern Iran, the majority of the ethnic groups there are IRANIC and NOT Turkish or Azeri . They have striking Nordic features and they are IRANIAN and speak IRANIAN languages and they are no Turks. Okay?
    Stop with the Azeri bullshit propaganda! I’ve seen VERY dark Azeri Turks that could definitely pass as Arabs.

    Iranians, Persians, have noble features, regardless of their skin or hair colors.

  93. Iranian Azeri

    Well Robert I really liked this peace of article, thanks! :)

    This is my cousin in Iran: http://bit.ly/sV68pj
    I don’t think there’s any superiority or inferiority and don’t like some people finding ways to prove Iranians are caucasians… So what? I mean It’s not a big deal! If it’s scientific, well IT IS, but being caucasian doesn’t make one a better human or whatever!!! All in all, I think we Iranians are light-skinned YES.

    I love my country as everyone should love all countries.
    @Cyrus: your comments are sooo funny dude.

  94. Blaine

    The only people in today’s iran that can be accepted as lets say caucasian or white according to the classical racial classification are: AZERIS, people of the North (Gilaks and Mazandaranis) and Kurds….but of course not 100%, a big majority of them are of caucasian origin….

    And here we obviously have so called: persians who are just farsi-speaking of central and southern regions of iran but they brag about how great their ancestors were back in 2500 years ago and therefore make a fool of themselves all the time! So these people try to undermine other nationalities in Iran so they can feel better…..

    One more time to the so-called FARS people: stop feeling pissed because you are not what you want to think you are, its not gonna change anything!

    There are people among FARS who appear white but if you investigate the individuals family history, you can definitely find an AZERI, KURD, Gilak or Mazandarani….b

  95. None of these words is not correct
    I am a 19 year old from Iran.
    My name is Hadi. Most Iranians are white and beautiful
    Iranians hate Arabs.
    Thousands of years ever since the Arabs have been fighting with the Persians
    Such as the Iran-Iraq war in 30 years
    Iranians do not hate Americans
    Iranians and Germans are of a generation
    Unlike Top Posts
    Iranians and Germans are descendants of Aryans
    If you are Iranian and German words in Persian language, you will notice it.
    Iran and Germany are in Persian language the word Arya.
    Such as library and books in Persian.
    کتاب و کتابخانه
    You can ask me in my blog.
    ir-usa.blog.com

    • Really? What about bald spots and raging back-hair…Do Germans have that in common with the Iranians, to?

    • Pepperoncini

      Iranians have some genetic input from the Indo-Iranians , starting with the speakers of Avestan but to say Iranians are Aryans is like saying Iraqis are Arabs.

      What is present day Iran was not empty or near empty when Indo-Iranians entered the Iranian plateau some time around early 2nd millenium BC or slighlty earlier. As far as we can tell Indo-Iranians came from the North-North East. The Elamite civilization (non Indo-European, non Semitic ) was already established in South West Iran. Elamite continued to be used up until the Achamenid empire (550-330 BC). We have no evidence for any sort of mass extermination of Elamites by ‘Aryans’ (Indo-Iranians) so we can assume that Elamite speakers just got assimilated, not unlike how Dravidians and Austro-Asiatics got assimilated by Indo-Aryans in what is present day Pakistan/India.

      Apart from Elamites there were Hurrians & Uratians in Northern Mesopotamia / NW Iran and the BMAC civilization in Northern Iran (none of which were Indo-European or Semitic). Archaeology has found a previously unknown civlization, the Jiroft Civilization, in what is present day Sistan and Baluchistan province.

      Iran like soo many other countries in that region is multi-racial and multi-ethnic with Turkic, Semitic and Indo-European overlayed onto other ethno-linguistic identities.

  96. Asian Philosopher Om Tat Sat

    Parsis (Zorastrians) all had to leave Iran and go to India in order not to be killed by Muslims. Bahais are persecuted in Iran and have to spread out all over the world.

    Persia had great religions and sub-cultures but when the virus of Islam made its way into that body, all you get now is that cancer.

    I feel bad for the Iranian people because the truth at ground level is that they are too smart, open-minded and kind for the current state of their culture and governmental regime. Many would prefer to be allowed to go back to Zorastrianism, but are not allowed.

    • XEra

      Can I ask what the the hell does an “Asian”, knows about Iranian culture besides information off wikipedia articles? Did you know Iranians espiecally look down on Asians, and they are the untouchables of the Middle East?

    • Parsis (Zorastrians) all had to leave Iran and go to India in order not to be killed by Muslims. Bahais are persecuted in Iran and have to spread out all over the world.

      Spread out all over the world? Where are they in any numbers beside Iran, India, and the San Fernando Valley?

      Persia had great religions and sub-cultures but when the virus of Islam made its way into that body, all you get now is that cancer.

      Sounds like you been hanging around to band refugee “Shahi” types. You won’t be getting thought to many “real” Iranians spouting that kind of drivel.

      I feel bad for the Iranian people because the truth at ground level is that they are too smart, open-minded and kind for the current state of their culture and governmental regime. Many would prefer to be allowed to go back to Zorastrianism, but are not allowed.

      Nobody asked you to feel bad, or even give a shit. For all intents and purposes, Zoroastrianism never “went away” in Iran. It just melded into a newer form, and lives on today, from Noruz celebrations to Sufi readings.

      Besides, Zoroastrianism wasn’t that great to begin with, anyways. It was exactly the same Mullahs that are running the show today. Clothes and all. Just another name for it.

      If you had a clue as to what the hell you are talking about, you would know this. You just see Zoroastrianism as some sort of “Eastern religion” thing, that pumps your little ego and superiority complex.. Just ’cause it might have some ancient connection to Hinduism. Big deal.

      • Dota

        Cyrus

        Asian Philosopher is a Hindutwadi, just giving you a heads up as I know that you are about as fond of them as I am.

        Just to add a bit more to your post

        Scholars speculate that the Zoroastrians who fled Iran were from the priestly ‘caste’ and bolted because they did not want to suffer a loss of privilege. Like India, Iran has a historic tradition of absorbing invaders into the fabric of their culture. It was the Iranians who taught the Abbasids everything they knew. Bernard Lewis called Islam the world’s first ‘international civilization’ but I think that distinction belongs to Iran. The Arabs just successfully emulated the Iranian model. Iran’s inquisitive intellectual tradition shaped the ‘Golden age of Islam’ with scholars like Omar Khayam and Ibn sina contributing to its prominence. A lot of Hindutwadis will talk about the coming of Islam as the end of Iranian history. To these people there was the ‘ancient civilization’, the Islamic invasion of the 7th century, and then fast forward to Khomeni’s Islamic revolution. The mongol invasion, the rise of the Safavids, the conflict with the ottomans and Russians never happened.

        Hindutwadis do not see culture as an evolving tradition but compartmentalize history with little emphasis on human actors. This is a colonial reading of history that was popularized by James Stuart Mill and is still in vogue in India. Also AP is a fucking idiot, but you’ll come to that conclusion yourself soon enough.

        • Asian Philosopher is not really a Hindutwavadi. She is just an desi woman who accentuates her Hinduism because it is seen as cool and exotic among certain alternative lifestyles. I have seen guys who do that after a visit to Rishikesh or Haridwar, when some white hippie girls shows some interest in them and their Hinduness. Guys who were otherwise desperate to be westernised and ‘mordan’ (modern) suddenly become all interested in yoga, kama sutra and the Hindu philosophy.

          Hindutvawadis, like any other extremist group (Al Qaeda, KKK, etc.) don’t care too much about history, culture or philosophy. All they are interested in is finding more ways to make their enemies as vile as possible and while they are at it, find as many allies as they can. This is why in spite of their rabid anti-Christian violence in the Indian sub-continent, they tone it down in the United States and other western nations. Their so called ‘love’ of Parsis and Jews follows the same ideology. Most western hippies who think Hinduism is a religion of yoga, kama sutra and om shanti-ism don’t realize that it is also the religion whose followers cry ‘Jai Shree Ram’ before raping nuns (Orissa and Karnataka), massacring Buddhist monks (Tamil Nadu and Sri Lanka) or shoving Hinduism on people who are culturally not Hindus (North Eastern India).

        • Thanks for the heads-up, Dota, and the history lesson. Personally, I’ve always felt that many of the greatest contributions to human civilization from the Persians, came after the coming of Islam, but you won’t hear about that too much from Persians in the West.

          I’ve noticed this “revisionist” history crap about Iran from Hindu psychos all the time. When they start preaching this shit to me, and I turn around and put them in the pathetic insecure little place, then always come across as “shocked.” You know why? They have been dealing with all these refugee “Shahi” Persian types in the West, who have been reinforcing their bullshit notions about not just Iran, but Central Asia and the Middle East, for the past thirty years.

          As for “AP,” he-she is a pretentious freak, but then again, I’ve known many a person, not just Indians, who ride high and mighty on the whole “Eastern Religion” thing. I.E, I am more enlightened than you, etc, etc.

          To them, I say go watch reruns of Kung Fu, and leave me the fuck alone.

        • Dota

          @ Atheist Indian

          I use the term ‘Hindutwadi’ loosely when referring to ABCDs. The VHP does reach out and tries to spread its ideology among the Diaspora; this is a very well known and well documented phenomenon, especially on campuses. AP’s views are tainted with Hindutva as a lot of Diaspora desis who want to re discover their ‘Hindu roots’ eventually encounter the ideology. I wasn’t saying that she’s a card carrying sevak. Similarly, my Pakistani roommate isn’t a religious scholar nor is he affiliated in any way with any Saudi institutions. I still refer to him as a Wahabi because that is the philosophy he sympathizes with.

          Cyrus

          “Thanks for the heads-up, Dota, and the history lesson. Personally, I’ve always felt that many of the greatest contributions to human civilization from the Persians, came after the coming of Islam, but you won’t hear about that too much from Persians in the West.””

          Islam wasn’t the cause per se. The Arabs brought in some new ideas and built a civilization upon the cultural infrastructure that was already present in Iran. It was a synthesis of cultures. Most civilizations are. The Islamophobic view that Islam destroys civilizations is just as bogus as the wahabi claim which states that Islam brings light to decedant societies.

        • The Islamophobic view that Islam destroys civilizations is just as bogus as the wahabi claim which states that Islam brings light to decedant societies.

          Yup.

  97. Asian Philosopher Om Tat Sat

    “Aylar Lie, Iranian porn star from Norway. A lot of Iranian refugees are in Northern Europe for unknown reasons. There are quite a few in Norway. She has gotten death threats from Iranians in Norway due to her work. I’ve seen some of her movies. Not bad.”

    For “some” reason? Uh, to be able to LIVE. Bahais and Zorastrians are intensely discriminated against in Iran. Cannot get into Uni, cannot get a good job, etc.

    • Bahais yes. Zoroastrians no. Bahais are seen as British stooges and traitors. That will never change in Iran. I don’t care who is in charge.

      it appears you info on Iran is less that “up to par.”

      As for Aylar, I doubt it was “Iranians” giving the death threats, if any where even seriously given at all. Being a certain kind of victim, sells books…

  98. Asian Philosopher Om Tat Sat

    @Xera, “Can I ask what the the hell does an “Asian”, knows about Iranian culture besides information off wikipedia articles? Did you know Iranians espiecally look down on Asians, and they are the untouchables of the Middle East?”

    Iran is in Asia, dear. ;)

    • Xera

      Umm no, that would be the same as saying South Asians are the same as East Asians, which is false. Technically Iran is part of the Middle East as its more similar in land & everything to that region. Also what I meant to say was that East Asian looking people are the untouchables of the Middle East region & are VERY much looked down upon by Iranians. Same with Pakistani’s and to an extent North Indians and those regions with similar connections to that culture.

      • Well Xera, you might want to take into account that there is no “equivalent” term for the “Middle East” in Persian…So the concept must have been rather foreign, until the Brits and Uncle Sugar introduced it.

        As far as East Asian people being the “untouchables” of the Middle East, that is complete bullshit, on-top of a mountain worth of horseshit.

        My family looks rather East Asian, and never has felt “looked down upon.” You are so full of crap it’s laughable.

        Here is a link to go educate your ignorant self, honey buns:

        http://www.worldfootball.net/entry/_12898_khodadad-azizi/

        • Xera

          Oh i’m sorry but most of the Persian people i’ve met seem to really really look down on them but pretty much anyone else not like them they seem to look down onto . There is like an ethnic group, the name which I forgot, but they are fucking East Asian looking and they a get a whole of shit just from looking like that from what i’ve been told but i’m wrong apparently, so please tell me things without throwing a fucking hissy fit.

        • Oh i’m sorry but most of the Persian people i’ve met seem to really really look down on them but pretty much anyone else not like them they seem to look down onto . There is like an ethnic group, the name which I forgot, but they are fucking East Asian looking and they a get a whole of shit just from looking like that from what i’ve been told but i’m wrong apparently, so please tell me things without throwing a fucking hissy fit.

          Go fuck yourself, loser. The only people Iranians hate are Arabs. Looking “Asian” means a damn thing. You are so ignorant, you can’t even name a single “Asian” looking ethnic group from Iran. Yet, you want to “school” me? Who the fuck do you think you are?

          I smell a stupid cock-sucker who just entered the forum…

        • Xera

          Calm the fuck down, when the fuck did I imply I want to school you? I honestly don’t give a shit about your people anyway. However the vast majority of the Persian people i’ve met (in the U.S) tend to look down on anyone not like them, that includes a hell lot of all sorts of people including Asians. None of them looked Asian but the stereotypical brown-white shade look. LoL the mighty Persians are so fond of everyone, so imperfect they can’t have any weakness or be criticized by outsiders, even if it involves them looking down on *gasp* other people. Seriously grow the fuck up & do not fucking arrogantly talk for my own experiences douchebag. The group was called the “Hazara” or some shit like that; but “Asiatic” types of people like that, not exactly them, also exist in environments where they are a minority like in Afghanistan, Pakistan, India, & Bangladesh and they are all looked down upon by the controlling majority from what i’ve heard, explain to me why it wouldn’t be the same case for your great Persia.

          Sorry I “defiled” and said wrong things about your great “Persian” people, actually i’m not sorry, because apparently no one is allowed to talk or discuss about unless its with the utmost authority of you & the great “Persians”. But apparently everyone is a genius scholar and free to discuss and criticize when it concerns the U.S, Europeans, & even shithole India. And let’s be honest none of you (including you Cyrus), REALLY knew much about that place until Dota, idiot AP, & Atheist Indian came along and broadened it further when you really knew jackshit about that region. You are here for the exact reason that you can get away with all sorts of rants that’s coherently put together and phrased formally by “race realists” & the people with the exact same need as you, which you couldn’t in real life. I’ll say whatever the fuck I want dickwad and speak what I have experienced.

          And no Cyrus, I don’t think Iran has that luxury to say it’s “Eastern” when political realighnment changes; which it obviously won’t because China is a house of cards & a shithole, India is a shithole, and there are obviously going to be other players besides them but that still doesn’t mean that the U.S will lose it’s innovation capacity or it’s military might, or that every other country out there virtually depends on it’s creative citizens. I’ve never seen any Chinese person look like the guy you posted above, based on my visits there & i’m probably betting there are no Persians that resemble a full han chinese person; BUT i’ve seen Uyghurs look like that & REALLY Caucasoid Iranian looking people being publicly hacked apart and beaten in broad daylight by Chinese police officers in uniform, with my own eyes. The Chinese are not really that fond of Persian looking people or Middle Eastern looking people, no matter how brown, olive, or white they are and are quite ethnocentric & xenophobic. Last time I heard, the Iranians caught a couple of Chinese spies trying to steal & copy their technology, if anything their alliance is more of a business partnership of protection & necessity due to the U.S then an actual “cultural” alliance of any sorts. The Chinese don’t really like Middle Eastern people, although they are masters of pokers faces due to their hideous faces, so they manage to hide that. If India rises, (which it won’t in this century or not even the next), they can’t claim that luxury either because those people are just too filthy brown to do that. Maybe it’s time you stopped kissing ass yourself you douche, oh wait your not even full Persian are you?

        • Touchy, touchy! :D :D :D

          Oh, and I’m not even “Persian,” you dumb cunt.

  99. Asian Philosopher Om Tat Sat

    Iran is in Asia dear. Look at a map. Who cares who they “look down on”. I might look down on you – who cares? Has nothing to do with the continent of Asia.

  100. Glimpses of Life and Manners in Persia
    by Lady Mary Shiel (1856)

    There are three kinds of negro slaves in Persia, who are named Bambassees, Nubees, and Habeshees. The former come from Zanjibar, and the neighbouring country in the interior, but I do not know the derivation of the name. The others, as their names imply, are natives of Nubia and Abyssinia. The Bambassees, who are genuine negroes, are in great disrepute as being ferocious, treacherous, and lazy. The Nubees and Habeshees, excepting in being black, do not present the usual negro characteristics. They are highly esteemed as being mild, faithful, brave and intelligent, and are generally confidential servants in Persian households. Ill-treatment must of course sometimes take place when there is unlimited power on one hand, and entire submission on the other. The fact is proved by the occasional instances in which slaves have taken refuge in the Mission to escape from punishment by their masters. Still it is believed that in general, cruelty, or even harshness, is rarely practised towards slaves in Persia. Their customary treatment is similar to that of the other servants of a family, or even something better, particularly when they happen to be Nubees or Habeshees. They are never employed as field labourers, their occupations being confined to the duties of the household. It is probable that in the anderoons more suffering is inflicted on the women slaves than is endured by the men. Caprice and idleness are unsafe guardians for human beings of an inferior race, when there is no “Times” to denounce and correct the wantonness of power. On the whole, however, the lot of slaves in Persia is perhaps as favourable as that institution will admit of. They are not treated with contempt as in America; there are no special laws to hold them in a state of degradation; they are frequently restored to freedom, and when this happens, they take their station in society without any reference to their colour or descent.
    http://bahai-library.com/shiel_glimpses_life_persia&chapter=16

    • Great. Then the Iranians did something right. Not a whole lot of “black” Iranians running around, last I checked…I.E, full societal assimilation. Not bad for a bunch of primitive “ragheads,” eh?

  101. NonKoolAidDrinker

    The “gold standard” for “brown people” is either South Asian, Mestizo or Malayo-Polynesian depending on who you ask.. Iranians are simply to pale to be “brown people”. At most you could say they have some brown ancesters. They’re an essentially white people.

    • You have to be South Asian. Probably Indian. Am I right?

      Only an Indian could craft such a delusional and clearly stupid argument, all wrapped up in such a “small paragraph”…(Sort of like your penis. Am I right?).

      ‘Cuase, you know, to the average German or redneck American, an Iranian is SOOOOooooo damn different from a Pakistani Punjabi, or Indian Gujarati.

      Watch out everyone! That Indian sitting next to that man from Yemen is obviously not of the same race. Just look. That Yemeni man could be Irish or Swedish. How could one possibly be sure?

      Really. White people site around thinking about this all the time, worrying about the differences. They care. I swear. I’m being serious, here. I mean it. Really.

      • NonKoolAidDrinker

        I don’t know what the average redneck thinks. I live in L.A. All the white people around here are either Jewish or SWPL types. They seem to be cool with your people as a rule. I see Iranians at the local Starbucks and all the other white people hangouts.

        • Uh…Huh. I’m a Angelino native. I’ve also lived and been all over the great old U.S of A.

          L.A/S.F – NY/Boston…Ain’t the rest of the U.S.

          Being Iranian in West Los Angeles is a worlds apart from being one in say, Tulsa Oklahoma.

        • Gay State Girl

          “Being Iranian in West Los Angeles is a worlds apart from being one in say, Tulsa Oklahoma.”

          Don’t know much about Iranian enclaves, but there are large Muslim populations in both Oklahoma City and Dallas.

          You lived in Tulsa?

        • U.S Army time in Oklahoma. Tulsa was just the first city the popped in my head. Could have said Lawton.

          As for the Iranian “Okies,” they are the handful of religious ones in the U.S, to boot.

          Go figure…

  102. Xera

    I would disagree, I have seen a considerable number of “Brown” Iranians.

    • NonKoolAidDrinker

      “light brown” maybe, but “Mindy Kaelin” brown? “George Lopez” brown?

      In the realm of hair color any color from white-yellow to sandy brown is called “blonde”. I feel the same standards should apply to skin tone. Any skin tone from pink-pale to light brown is “blonde”. I think that would effectively resolve this whole interminable “who’s white” non-issue. Europeans, Middle Easterners and North Africans are all blonde skinned people. Different shades maybe, but still all blondies.

      • KoolAidAssHole Wrote:
        I think that would effectively resolve this whole interminable “who’s white” non-issue. Europeans, Middle Easterners and North Africans are all blonde skinned people. Different shades maybe, but still all blondies.

        Yes, I do believe that is the most fucking stupid comment ever left on an internet discussion forum. Ever…

        • Xera

          Cyrus you are Persian right? What do you think of those Indians overseas that try their best to be like “Persians” or “Aryans”, or “fair skinned, so I am a gift of god and a warrior of the great people” while having the disgusting filthy self-serving egoic, opportunistic, short-sighted, thieving, ugly presence that Indians seem to have? This includes both Hindu’s & Muslims, to separate & elevate themselves from other Indians into superior “successful” people.

        • I think South Asians in general are effeminate kiss-asses. Next question.

        • NonKoolAidDrinker

          I was making an analogogy between hair color terminology and skin color terminology. If there was a skin color term that covered all shades from white to light brown (like the term blonde for hair color) it would it cover most caucasians and end the wholoe “who’s white” nonsense. It obviously went over your head. It’s called thinking outside the box, you dumb hairy desert honky.
          It was only meant to taken half seriously, anyway.

        • Yah big guy. Went over my head. Went over anybody’s head whose spent a day on planet Earth.

  103. Joe C.

    I think we need to back up here. The ancient PRE-Arab Middle East was the real “cradle of civilization.” People who are entirely or largely of the ancient stock have given no indication whatsoever that they are anything other than highly intelligent and creative, not to mention physically attractive; while the Arab element has a very clear and well-deserved reputation of having low IQ’s, not to mention pretty ugly. “Arabs,” even with centuries of mixing with the original stock, STILL have 85-average IQ’s (the same as African-Americans).

    I believe that it is our duty as White people to “save” the remnants of the ancient stock, as well as ourselves. Modern “Persia” represents the largest concentration of that stock. Ahmadinejad is not an ethnic Persian. Not surprising since the “spiritually brown Muslim element” is in power today. Quite contrary to popular belief, Persians are not radical Islamists by nature. Many would like to bring back the pagan native beliefs of their ancestors. By the way, I’m one of those “ignorant Stormfronters.”

    • Watch out everybody! It’s the “Great White Hope” coming through!!!

    • mott

      As a white guy (not a StormF’r, but not a self-hating white either) I have to admit it’s pretty puzzling and amusing watching this squabble play out- quite a few people, most of who don’t claim to be “white”, or who are arguably not “white”, all disagreeing over “who’s white’ and whether it matters….etc.

      Just an idea- why don’t you ask some Whites what they think?

      As Cyrus says- alot of dumb redneck whites in the U.S. can’t distinguish between any of the various groups and lump them together.

      On the other hand, educated, urban whites are into knowing, and distinguishing the differences between the variety of ethnic immigrant groups.

      Even is the slightly redneck area around here, the local yokels know that the Punjabis are not Arabs or Muslims. And, yes they do accept them as, at a minimum,”honorary whites”, even though they might be prejudiced in general towards all “foreign types”.

      And, yeah, the Punjabis say they are “white”. I’ve also known Pakistanis that consider themselves “white” (as in “caucasian”. And, actually I agree with them. And I don’t think that skin tone is what makes someone “white”.

      It’s (allegedly) a race, not a skin color, not a hair or eye color. It’s about more basic physical structures.

      There is also a hierarchy within “whites” that most whites and most non -whites don’t “get”. Some think that the only “real whites” are the top-rank ones: Germanic/Nords/Brittanic at the top (not the Irish, tho- although that’s changed now. maybe), Meds equal or just slightly under, all with others considered lesser, and so on down to Russians, Slavs (this is changing now too) and others at the bottom (or maybe Arabs?- if you think they should be included in “whites”- that’s pure opinion.

      Being “white” can mean a lot things: whether you consider yourself “white”, whether other groups do, and whether “whites” in general do. The last one might be, whether or not Nordicists or StormFront types would consider you “white”. If they do, then guess what- you’re probably “white”!

      Then there’s the whole issue of “acting white”. Which many do not. There will always be plenty of stupid, ugly, ignorant whites for detractors to poin to.
      I personally think ethnic Persians are “white”, I admit I havn’t studied the other groups (Azeris, etc,) enough to comment on them.

      • dota

        Welcome back Mott, where have you been?

        • mott

          @Dota- I’ve been sidelined for a while. Have health issues- gotta have surgery on my neck in Dec. Blown out disc- need to fuse two vertabrae. Also, up to neck in school work at University. AND, I just got involved in an internet “thing” where I had to get legal advice, bla bla bla…

          Kind of made me shy away from posting for a while- but I’ve been following the festivities- some real interesting and entertaining stuff.

          You and Cyrus make me realize that I need to bone up on more knowledge of Mid- Eastern stuff. But that’s History as a discipline- you can’t ever know too much- and there’s always areas that you haven’t gotten into enough.

        • Gay State Girl

          Mott
          Please do tell. Where did you get advice from?

        • mott

          @GSG- I take it….You mean legal advice? I called an attorney who is a friend of mine. But, I also had to do a lot of research myself, many phone calls, etc. Because my friend charges alot…

        • Gay State Girl

          Does this lawyer know where the information is stored and how the government uses it.

        • mott

          GSG- You mean the gov’t watching us all on the Net? The Conspiracy? I can’t talk about it…No, actually, I don’t even care about that particular Conspiracy Theory…I don’t think they are competent enough to track us all….it would be a complete waste of time to spy on 95% of us- we’re not that interesting.

        • Gay State Girl

          I didn’t say the government was spying on us. Just that they archive information from social networking sites and possibly from generous email providers.

        • Dota

          Mott

          Hope you make a full recovery and hang out here more often :)

        • mott

          Thanks, Dota. I will be hanging ’round! I miss Wade, Uncle Joe and Huax, tho!

      • Yah Mott, welcome back!

        • mott

          @Cyrus- Thanks for the “Welcome Back”- ya know I can play that song on guitar- John Sebastian IS a genius (the Spoonful stuff, of course!)

      • Mott Said:

        There is also a hierarchy within “whites” that most whites and most non -whites don’t “get”. Some think that the only “real whites” are the top-rank ones: Germanic/Nords/Brittanic at the top (not the Irish, tho- although that’s changed now. maybe), Meds equal or just slightly under, all with others considered lesser, and so on down to Russians, Slavs (this is changing now too) and others at the bottom (or maybe Arabs?- if you think they should be included in “whites”- that’s pure opinion.

        That is a good way to put it. I might also add that Arabs can “earn” a generic white “status,” sort of like Hispanics in many cases, by simply acting as white as possible. Even some South Asians have been entering conservative politics in this manor, as of late.

        American whites at least, don’t care much about the skin color in my experience, so long as you act the “part.”

        Europeans…Are another story.

        I also agree with your notion that skin color is not what makes a “Caucasian,” Caucasian. Just like yellow skin is not a sole identifier of an “Asian.” Case in point, Filipinos and Southeast Asians…The “Middle Easterners” of the East Asian world.

        • mott

          Yeah. the “are Arabs white” thing is something I try to steer clear of. To no avail…
          Some, more Europeanized Arabs- like Lebanese, can definitely “pass” (Ralph Nader, Casy Casem). And some lighter Pali-area types- Levant Arabs is the word? But let’s face it- it’s the European blood that is showing through in these types, not the Semitic or Arab blood (ex. Arafat- not white!)

          And Berbers, etc, aren’t Arabs anyway.

          Another example: Armenians are “white” IMO. but are slightly different than all others. They look like they have Ancient Greek blood, IMO.

          And the next time I whiteness being described as an eye, hair or skin color, I will SCREAM!

    • Mustapha

      You do know that Iraqis scored higher than Iranians in IQ tests right? Iranians have an IQ of 84 which is lower than many Arabs nations.

      Are you Iranian yourself? Well know that most Europeans consider you brown. The funniest thing in the world is the Iranian who thinks he’s white.

      • Sara

        I am so impressed that ARABS are now more intelligent than Persians. I have YET to see more than a FEW ARABS in total in any of my courses and currently, I am a PhD student of Chem Eng and a woman. The number of Iranians/Persians outnumber any other nationality in my uni. Like it or hate it, Persians are demonstrably high achiever in all professions and quite well known in the sciences in the west. Most my friends in Iran have at least a Bachelors degree in some science, and as someone who left Iran at age 19 and was still top of class in US Universities. I must tell you that Iranian educational system and their IQ is certainly and demonstrably much higher than ANY ARAB could possibly dream. If that’s not enough, we have a WHOLE HISTORY of what dumb westerners call Arab or Muslim Science which is a gross misnomer, as Muslim Science was and is always PERSIAN science with a few Anatolian and North Africans among the ranks and close to ZERO true Arabs or the good old violent race of Mohammad, the Bedouins I am referring to. Look at Saudi Arabia today in education , and look at Iran, I think you have to really take back your incredibly laughable comment on Persian intelligence vs Arab. Violence is the ONLY attribute of Arabs, in that, they win, have always won over Persians. History of the past and present is the witness to this statement of course. BTW, as a Persian, I can assure you we never consider ourselves white Europeans, but genetically, we are in the group of WHITE race, and that has NOTHING to do with colors. It has everything to do with anatomy. That is why if you mix a Jew, Arab, or Indian, with a Swedish person, the kid will come out more or less a typical WHITE kid, with a homogenous mixture, (40-6- to 50-50). If you mix an African or Asian with a Swedish person, the kid will predominately will skew toward the dominant phenotype, which is the Asian and African. Do you now understand what it means to be white? I know this, as a scientist in the field. As a Persian who could pass for Arab or Spanish or Italian, etc, I now have a child with red-hair and greenish eyes with an English man. He is so English looking that people often think I must be the nanny. First educate yourself on what it means to be white and what are the characteristics of the several races and why Middle Eastern populations, like it or not, ARE in the category of WHITE. It won’t even take more than one mixture to bring out/turn on the lighter colored genes. That is NOT the case with Africans and Asians for the most part, as they are much more different in their genetics and they rarely have genes for let say blue eye color or red hair. That is demonstrably NOT true in the case of MOST middle eastern people. They only reason they have darker fetures is bc of dominance of darker colored genes in circulation and burrying of the lighter ones that do come out in one simple mixture as in my case and numerous others. You can start noticing. Compare half middle eastern kids and the rest, you’d be shocked.

  104. Gay State Girl

    The Last Dictator Standing

  105. Gay State Girl

    My loverboy came to Boston to speak, but I was busy both nights. :(

  106. Gay State Girl

    “It’s called thinking outside the box, you dumb hairy desert honky.”

    Hee Hee Hee Hee

    East Asians are the real blondies then.

  107. Gay State Girl

    “Nope. Ashkenazi Jews are basically Iraqi Jews who went to Europe. Also, it’s possible that the Jews came out of Iraq. Read the Bible and see where Abraham came from. I think Ur.”

    So we orchestrated the destruction of our ancestral homeland. Bahahahaha.

    That Azeri guy looks like Bilbo Baggins.
    Many of the places in The Chronicles of Narnia had Indo Aryan names as well.

  108. NonKoolAidDrinker

    Iranians are to pale and caucasoid to be considered “brown”.
    I’ve even known Iranian girls that go to tanning salons.
    Do you think Mindy Kaelin or Michelle Malkin ever has to go to a f*****g tanning salon?
    That’s white people behavior!

  109. NonKoolAidDrinker

    Iranian women go to tanning salons. Nuff said.

  110. Gay State Girl

    You don’t understand. I’ve been trapezing through dangerous territory, swimming in the sewer, and hanging by a spider’s thread to find out.

    • mott

      GSG- Funny you said that- Because of this- I just removed my name/pics from all social net sites- bad news! Not just the gov but anyone who wants to mess with anyone can just find your name, pic, and start causing sh*te.

  111. Gay State Girl

    What about you, Lindsay?
    Any ideas?

  112. Gay State Girl

    Senator Al Franken, you are my hero.

  113. Gay State Girl

    Sorry. One of the links I posted was from The Onion. However, truth is stranger than fiction.

    • I can’t imagine a resource as invasive and popular as Facebook would go unheeded by Big Brother. The infrastructure is there, private industry did the leg work for them, now all they need to do is tap in. They couldn’t have asked for more, could they??

  114. Gay State Girl

    Lindsay
    What’s your take?

  115. Gay State Girl

    The worst part is that they mine data on the most vulnerable.

  116. Gay State Girl

    Lindsay
    You’re usually on top of things and you said you were a tech buff, so how exactly do TPTB track our use of technology and for what purposes is it used. The world shall soon know. I hope that misuse of the Patriot act and government exploitation of social networking sites as well as abuses and neglect committed by the medical establishment will soon be at the forefront of OWS’s platform.

    • Do I think the evil gubmint is tracking us on the Internet? No.

      Do I think some Internet psychos and some potential employers might be tracking our activities? Yes.

      • Gay State Girl

        Have any idea how they are tracking people? Where they store information? For what purposes they bring it up?

        • Well, I’ve heard through the grapevine that Facebook keeps everything at a single massive server farm in San Jose, and not “dispersed” world-wide. Gotta mean something…

      • I don’t believe the government is actively tracking us. I don’t believe you have centers filled with people sitting there watching internet transmissions, but I do believe software/infrastructure is in place that easily monitors all traffic and is designed perhaps to issue alerts when it detects “suspicious” activity. Hell, this is what anti-virus software does. The computing power must be immense but not impossible.

        Employers and psychos are not so sophisticated so you can see them coming and avoid if you’re smart. :)

        • Employers and psychos are not so sophisticated so you can see them coming and avoid if you’re smart.

          Yah, I figure as much.

          The psychos are usually life-long losers, in my experience. Employers are on the power-trip of being an “employer.”

  117. Gay State Girl

    Have you run into problems?

  118. Vahid

    Hi Robert.
    Thanks for the info.

  119. If iranians are white, so niggers are white too.

    • USA IS WHITE&BLACK NIIGER

      USA=NIGGER WHITE NIGGER JEWS ISLAM
      BULLSHIT
      USA IS SECOND WORLD
      GERMANY AND WEST EUROPE(GB IS WHITE NIGGER=USA IS NIGGER)
      IS THE BEST LAND AND PEOPLE
      USA IS STALINS BEST FRIEND
      IN 10 YEARS IS USA DEAD

    • kami

      f u c k y o u b a b y

  120. USA IS WHITE&BLACK&RED%ISLAM&JEWSNIGGER

    if jews and americans (except the real german-americans) are white,
    so niggers are too white
    p.s english is for me ( I AM GERMAN =GERMANS ARE THE MASTERS OF THE WHITES) WHITE NIGGER(4 CLASS GERMANS)

  121. USA IS WHITE&BLACK&RED%ISLAM&JEWSNIGGER

    AMERICAN;JEWS;ISLAM;JEWS
    ALL NIGGERS
    GERMANY IS CLEAN AND WHITE
    GB AND USA NIGGER WHITE

  122. WER

    USA=IS IN MY GERMANY EYS NIGGER
    BLACK OR WHITE …USA IS NIGGER
    JEWS AND ISLAM=USA
    USA IS DIRTY BITCH (NO STALIN=NO STRONG USA)
    USA IS BLABLABLA
    IN 10 YEARS USA IS JEWISH OR NIGGER (AND ISLAM)

  123. WER

    HIER WIRD ÜBER IRANER GELÄSTERT
    DABEI SIND DOCH DIE AMERIKANER
    NICHTS USA IS NIGGER&JEW&ISLAM
    USA=NIGGER NIGGER AND COMMUNISTS
    GERMANY IS CRISTIAN AND WHITE FOR EVER
    I THINK IRAN IS MORE THAN USA
    USA=BABEL A NIGGERLAND WITHOUT CULTURE AND honour

  124. WER

    one german is more than 1000000000 white americans(english is white nigger)
    ENGLISH=4-5 CLASS GERMANS
    NOT MORE A BASTARD

    • Mott

      Refreshing to hear from a real Nazi! Howevr, if 1,0000,000 Americans, or 4-5 English, equal 1 German…PLEASE “Splain WW II?

      (I’m an English and Swiss-Germanand French heritage American)

  125. manfred

    i am from germany, too
    i think african-americans are good people
    better than the most primitive whites in USA
    slaveholder too lazy for hard work

  126. Derone Leeway

    who gives a shit! WE ARE ALL PART OF THE HUMAN RACE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Mott

      Derone- Yes, we are all a part of the human race.

      Except for stupid people like you, who think there are no differences between the various breeds. Which doesn’t apply to all individuals within, of course. Education, intelligence and culture tend to blur the differences between individuals- but generalizations are generally correct often enough to be called such. You are being foolish- but, then, I used to think like you, too. And I was a fool to do so. We are talking about differences here- if you don’t believe in such- go somewhere else. Peace!

  127. Hamid

    Im Iranian. I look like many people from european lands. There are people of brown race here in Iran and there are people of the white race here in from Iran. Its not that big of deal. the human geno is very all close the same around the world. only weirdo and fools pay attention to the slight physical differences

  128. Armin

    it’s true that many iranians really hate Arabs.because they attack iran and force iranians to be muslims.muslims killed,destroyed,attacked to iranian weman,…….something that is in our mind is that they are really wild.that’s why.
    but let me explain about jewish.when we were child in kindergarden,elementry school every time in our school ,they force us to say death to israeel,(that’s “marg bar israeel”)this keep in our mind.every time when you turn on tv,shows that israeel is very slaughterous.it impact on people.it is completly political.but in fact me my self don’t hate israeel.problems of phelestin is not relate to us.

  129. ghyut

    most of persian (and some armenian) i have seen so far look like pakistani and indians (because they are from elamito-dravidian race)

  130. ghyut

    more than 50% of ppl in iran are not ethnic persian they should be free on speaking their own language instead of become brainwashed about fars propaganda!

    • Iranian The truth about Iran

      There is no such ethnicity as Persians. Persians were an empire made up of different ethnicities and tribes. Plus it’s a Greek word. In Iran we call ourselves IRANI and abroad we call ourselves Iranian NOT persians. Some Iranians find the term Persian appealing b/c as Iranians we face discrimination so we try to distant ourselve from “iran”. Iranians are made of up soo many different tribes and ethnicities that it’s too much to list, and plus we’ve been mixing for the past 1000 years soo, you’ll never find a pure race. The notion that Azeri want a separation from Iran is laughable b/c the majority of iranians have Azeri blood in them. It’s just propaganda to take land from Iran. The majority of our leaders have Azeri mix in them. It’s like saying German American want separation from americans since english is the offical launguage of america. It doesn’t even make sense, people are mix of everything. There is no pure race in iran.

  131. to anon: “Jews” are NOT a race. There are black Jews, Chinese Jews, Slavic Jews, Mediterranean Jews, etc. It is an identity, not a race.

    • mott69

      You’re wrong= all due respect. The J-ish race is passed along thru matrilineal lines. Very hard to convert. If there are ” black Jews, Chinese Jews, Slavic Jews, Mediterranean Jews, etc” then they either married into it, converted or have enough blood to get in. Silly argument- it is a race, an ethnicity, and a “religion”- and none of the above at the same time. They want it all ways= that’s why they piss people off! (of course, there’s also the money thing, the greed thing, and the cliquishness thing- and the defensiveness and disingenousness. Who, us? Control the media, Control the U.S. of Misra-hell? Nazi LIES!

      Reply

      • Bay Area Guy

        Yeah, Jews are funny like that.

        Jews are not technically a racial or ethnic group. You have white Ashkenazi Jews, Middle Eastern Mizrahi Jews, black Ethiopian Jews, etc.

        But they’re also not just a religious group. As long as your mother is Jewish by blood, you are a Jew even if you know nothing about the religion of Judaism.

        Jews are also not a national group, since you have Jews living throughout the world, of various different nationalities.

        So what, then, are they?

        The way I see it, at least when analyzing American and other Western Jewry, it’s best to think of them as a tribal/ethnic group. Even if they aren’t technically an ethnic group, they sure as hell function like one.

  132. Laurence Kueffer

    No! Armenians are still very much welcomed as members at Stormfront. I know this to be true, because I’m an Armenian Member, with Armenian and Swiss-German ancestry, and my Stormfront Name is Armenian Bishop. When I leave there for a while, members there remind me that I’m very much appreciated at Stormfront, and they enjoy reading my posts about Armenians. Stormfront Moderators recognize that “…many Armenians are White…” and they consider Armenians to be a welcomed part of the community. Armenians are considered to be a more cohesive part of the White community than is the case with Iranians or Persians, because they’re a Christian Civilization, with closer proximity to the European Continent, and they more fully embrace Western Civilization. In 2008, there was an Armenian Hater who called himself the Grand Inquisitor, he ultimately got his way and banned 300 Armenians, but since the time of that Witch Hunt, Armenians have returned at Stormfront, and can be found there again.

  133. mott69

    Yeah, I think the world owes me a Swiss chalet and a castle by Loch Ness- because MY ancestors were genocided also (the Britons and the Huguenots). Plus, nobody can criticize me- I’ll have you killed for being a genocidal Jew-Nazi!

  134. Nene

    funny thing what’s called turkey is atually greeks and irans land . The turks came from from central asia and settleled there . There are numerous Greeks historical land marks in present day so called turke . When will the greeks take their land????

    • Nene, you bring up an important point, but your statement is in error. Present Day Turkey is actually derived from Greek and Armenian Homelands, and has been so for many thousands of years into antiquity.

      The Armenian Highlands include much of Present Day Eastern Turkey. While Iranians are benevolent cousins to Armenians, Iran doesn’t claim Western Armenia, in present day Eastern Turkey. Iran knows better, and understands that Turkey has violated Armenia’s Territorial Integrity, in Western Armenia.

      I too would like to see those lands returned to their rightful owners — Greece and Armenia.

  135. Voice of Reason

    Holy shit, the ignorance in the Comments section of this article is so overwhelming, that I’m befuddled by how the Universe has the capacity to contain it all. First of all, the racial categorizations outlined in the U.S. Race Census are nothing more than socio-political terms. The term “Caucasoid and “Caucasian”, are based the Typological Five Race Model. Which consisted of Caucasoid, Negroid, Mongoloid, Capoid and Australoid.

    The typological model has been falsified since the early 20th Century, because of its lack of rigidity, inherent subjectivity and inability to account for patterns of morphological diversity within and between populations. It was used in relation to a set of craniofacial traits individuals evinced, thought to be discrete and non-overlapping, rather than just skin complexion. But because it’s been misused in the U.S. for decades, it eventually became synonymous with those of primarily European/White ancestry. Iranian people are not descended nor mixed with Europeans.

    Human genetic variation is clinal, what that means is that it isn’t fixated. And is very fluid in response to selective pressures in the environment. Genetic variability is accumulated through gradients, gradually over a long period of time over a geographical area. It is reflective of a continuum of change of allele frequencies of a previously more ancient ancestral population.

    Iranians are a Middle Eastern population, with a genetic substructure consistent with other contemporary Middle Eastern ethnic groups. They are not White, as they do not genetically cluster closely to Europeans, and can be genetically differentiated on the basis of their autosomal components. Which are distinctly Middle Eastern. In addition to that, they also share alleles with South Asians, and other Non-European populations.

    So how could they possibly be White? The reality is, they’re not and the fact that some can superficially pass for White does not give one grounds to categorize them as such. There are Balochis, Pakistanis and some Sikhs that can pass for White too. Yet no one with a fraction of a brain cell would collectively classify them as White. Why?

    Because they understand, that even though there are lighter skinned Balochis, Pakistanis and Sikhs, there are also brown Balochis, Pakistanis and Sikhs. The same principal applies to Iranians and other Middle Eastern people. This article does nothing more, than parrot the propaganda that is perpetuated by uneducated White people and some Middle Eastern people with an inferiority complex.

    • Leo

      You act as if ‘white’ is a fixed term that solely equates to Europeans. It isn’t and it doesn’t. It’s a completely made-up social construct. A white person by general consensus is basically just a light complexioned person (as opposed to say, South Indians) with observable Caucasoid features (as opposed to say, East Asians or Sub-Saharan Africans). There are plenty of Persians, Lebanese, or Punjabis who fit this mold. Of course there are more Europeans who fit this mold because the colder European environment selects for lighter colouring. But that doesn’t mean others outside Europe couldn’t have also developed a light complexion. There is much evidence that they indeed have.

      You obviously have a very superficial view of what ‘white’ is. Whites are not actually white. They are beige, tan, or brown. So being brown does not exclude one from being white. A naturally beige white person can become brown under the hot sun of a tropical setting. Does that mean they suddenly change ‘race’ and will no longer be seen as white? Of course not.

      As for genetic clusters, where do you draw the line between what is close or not? Europeans certainly cluster close to Middle Easterners than to other groups. Of course there are differences, but there are also differences between the genes of Irish and Romanians. That doesn’t make them separate races.

      • The Boss

        “You act as if ‘white’ is a fixed term that solely equates to Europeans. It isn’t and it doesn’t. It’s a completely made-up social construct. A white person by general consensus is basically just a light complexioned person (as opposed to say, South Indians) with observable Caucasoid features (as opposed to say, East Asians or Sub-Saharan Africans). There are plenty of Persians, Lebanese, or Punjabis who fit this mold. Of course there are more Europeans who fit this mold because the colder European environment selects for lighter colouring. But that doesn’t mean others outside Europe couldn’t have also developed a light complexion. There is much evidence that they indeed have.”

        If we are to define “White”, in a traditional context. Then yes, White = European. You are correct, that it is indeed a social construct. But it is a social construct that is inextricably interlaced with European heritage. It is not a concept, that one mentally envisions as encompassing a nebulous macrofamily of indisputably disparate populations.

        I.E., West, West-Central and South Asians, like Mr. Lindsay would have you believe. Anyone who honestly believes that these ethno-culturally and linguistically incommensurable peoples, are identical in every conceivable way genetically with respect to their autosomal DNA, needs to have their brain checked. Assuming they even have one. It’s funny you should remark on the supposed anatomical traits that unify all “Caucasoids” into one monolithic branch.

        What’s even funnier, is that you seriously believe, that the genotype (set of genes you’re born with) will reflect in its entirety in your phenotype. Even though the coding regions of your DNA (those are the genes responsible for phenotype), only comprise a tenuous 1-10% of your genome. That means, that there is more than one configuration, at which these alleles can be arranged. In other words, it doesn’t matter if one Iranian is brown and the either is light. A light Iranian is still genetically closer to a brown Iranian, than he is to any European.

        Because the brown Iranian still shares more gene variants in common with the light Iranian, despite evincing some superficial physical characteristics with some Europeans. Due to the fact that they been inhabiting the same overall geographic region(s), for tens of thousands of years. My advice to you, Robert Lindsay and his legion of deluded Pan-Aryanist fucktards is go read some multilocus, Genome-Wide Association and other genetic studies comparing Middle Easterners and Europeans before commenting further on the alleged “Whiteness” of Middle Easterners.

        “You obviously have a very superficial view of what ‘white’ is. Whites are not actually white. They are beige, tan, or brown. So being brown does not exclude one from being white. A naturally beige white person can become brown under the hot sun of a tropical setting. Does that mean they suddenly change ‘race’ and will no longer be seen as white? Of course not.”

        No, I have what you call a realistic view of White, that borders on scientific impartiality. Your definition though, is so vague, broad and inclusive so as to be completely devoid of any ethno-cultural implications whatsoever and thus meaningless. True, everyone on the planet has varying doses of melanin in their skin. But there’s difference between being brown, and being tan.

        Contrary to popular belief, the dark skin in Middle Easterners can be described as a light-brown to medium-brown. It is not a “tan”, tans degenerate over time, brown skin doesn’t. The dark skin in Middle Easterners and North Africans is not a “tan”, it can be legitimately be referred to as brown skin. Because most brown skinned Middle Easterners, remain the same skin tone for most, if not their whole lives.

        Also, the darkest Europeans don’t even remotely come close in terms of pigmentation, to the darkest Middle Easterners.

        “As for genetic clusters, where do you draw the line between what is close or not? Europeans certainly cluster close to Middle Easterners than to other groups. Of course there are differences, but there are also differences between the genes of Irish and Romanians. That doesn’t make them separate races.”

        I draw the line at a genetic distance of 25 to 30 and above. Genetic distances directly correspond to geographic distance. So the further away the European population from a Middle Eastern one. The more genetic dissimilarities there are. Is this is an arbitrary distinction?

        Yes. But so is the one between Native American and East Asian populations, yet we acknowledge the differences between both groups. So why do we create this special exception for Middle Easterners, South Asians and Europeans? Especially when East Asians and Amerindians have had less time to accrue mutational diversity, than Europeans and Middle Easterners/South Asians have?

        Robert, if you don’t approve this reply. You are coward, that is all.

  136. Voice of Reason

    Furthermore, the author of this article is being disingenuous, he is accentuating the lighter-skinned, more phenotypically European Iranians. In an attempt to have people focus solely on them and ignore the average, much darker, Non-European looking Iranians. Which is more accurate, and representative of the majority of Iranians. So all he’s doing is minimizing the “darkies”, so he could fallaciously maximize the exceptions.

  137. Voice of Reason

    Moreover, this image that the author provided is based on an outdated study, published in a book entitled “The History and Geography of Human Genes” by Cavalli-Sforza. Which only measured genetic similarity on classical blood groups, and just over a hundred allele frequencies. Which is so horrendously low so as to be meaningless.

    http://i20.photobucket.com/albums/b237/jakjamal/race_genes.jpg

    Here’s a more modern, detailed PCA Plot, that utilizes hundreds of thousands of Markers in populations.

    http://i52.tinypic.com/23wrz2o.png

    Notice how far away Iranians are from all the European populations, and how they “pull” towards South Asia.

  138. Mustapha

    “Most Iranians look white”

    Well, you don’t know many Iranians then. Some Northern Iranians can be light but if you take into account the whole country, they are dark people and don’t look white at all. Only in the dreams of Persian nationalists.

    And what do you mean Arabs have Iranians genes? That’s bullshit and doesn’t really mean anything. Genes are not specific to any nation. Most Iranians are not even “Aryans” they’re just descended from the inhabitants of the Iranian plateau. Same with Iraqis and Mesopotamia.

    I am half Iraqi half Iranian myself and I really dislike Persian nationalists, they consider themselves superior to Arabs and think they’re white.

  139. Iran has formed an alliance with Armenia, as well as Russia and China.

    Armenia shares borders with 4 neighboring countries: Turkey, Georgia, Azerbaijan, and Iran. Turkey and Azerbaijan are openly hostile. Georgia represses and oppresses its Armenian minority. Iran on the other hand, expresses much good will and feelings of brotherhood with Armenia.

    While Turkey, Azerbaijan, and Georgia have been engaged in the destruction of Armenian historical landmarks, in their countries; Iran, on the other hand, has invested for the preservation of Armenian historical landmarks, with much care and goodwill.

    Genocidal Acts of Oppression in Turkey and Azerbaijan have led to the annihilation of their Armenian populations. Georgia oppresses and represses the rights of Armenians in Georgia to study their own language and history. But, Iran provides schools and churches for Armenians to study their own language, learn about their history and politics, and preserve their cultural heritage.

    Russia too has been a good ally to Armenia. These three countries: Iran, Armenia, and Russia have forged an alliance which links the political, military and economic interests, between the three countries.

  140. Sara

    Interesting info. I look like the typical Persian girl, big brown eyes, pale skin and black hair. I did a DNA test on DNAtribes.com and I was a huge mix of MOSTLY European population. My highest match was a low match, meaning, I am so mixed, I could not get a high match of a particular population. My highest (low match) was Northern Ireland 35%, then Southern Ireland ( 30%), Cacusians of Afghanistan ( 20%) followed by France Italy, and LOTS of Poland( several regions). I know my mom’s family has some Russian origin and she looks very slovic, all of them do actually. My father is from eastern Iran. My parents have been in Iran for generations, no one knows exactly how deeply rooted Persian we are, but I am pretty sure my mom’s side is most likely of Northern /eastern EU, since their ancestral village in Iran is even a Polish name (near Tehran). My family is a typical Persian family, many Persians have such ancestry. I thought of the Irish part as BS, but then my son was born, with an English man, with RED HAIR and greenish eyes. He is so white, you could bet a million dollars he is a kid from England or Ireland with ZERO middle eastern or Persian genes in him and lose big. I have seen quite a few full Persians with red hair actually. I obviously have the genes ( must for red hair) even though I know of NO ONE in my family with this trait. My cousin just had a baby with a Aussie man. Same thing, the kid is so white, it’s shocking, even though she looks very Asian, from eastern Iran, I think she has serious Asian genes. This anecdotal event tells me Persians are so white that it takes ONE mixture to resemble, phenotypically, a European look and that has NOTHING to do with how light or European we look. I don’t in ANY way look like a European girl, my cousin, even worse. We could pass for Greek, Turk, Italian or Spanish. My test also shows that maybe there is something to the historian accounts on the CELT’s origin being in the middle east. That may explain why my highest match that still stands out even though I am SUCH a mix ( of mostly Caucasian populations) like most other Persians is actually Irish ( share with the celtic homeland).

  141. nafise

    hahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
    you are all good liars
    it’s so funny passage
    i laughed a lot because of your fictions…
    all of you dont know us very well
    this is not your fault,however you need money for your life and you have to say this trashy things,but you choose the worst way to earn money!!!!
    we hate this way
    you will be a looser in your life with thic dicisions

    you got that? :this is islamic ethic…

  142. I need to mention that kurds, lurs, Azeris,mazandaranis, gilacs, sistanis, baluchis, ghashghaeis,bakhtiaris and mamy more are all persians. Only Turkmans and Arabs are none persian Iranisns. Even Armanians are persian. You can investigate about it by analysing their languages and resding history. As you already mentioned

  143. Hi just wanted to tell u the reason most Iranians dont like arabs is because back in time Iran was a country of Medicin and Architecture, we worshiped the sun and so on. We were Blond, blue eyed and Golden or white skinned.
    The arabs came with their religion and started “Converting”. The Arabs were in the beginning a war country so when they came against us we werent prepared for it. So they killed our men and some kids and raped our women. When this got around some towns said “We are muslims dont attack” to preserve our way. Thats why the hate Exists. We dont forget. In my family every child is born with blond hair and that gradually changes to black or brown over time. Since our original genetic is recessive the arabic genes show… Currently there is a town in the south of Iran were “Original” persians live, they are forbidden to mix with anyone else that does not look like them. And the reason why its ok 2 marry ur cousin and so forth is because we tried to preserve our race when the arabs came and now its stuck in our society. Thats also a reason why most persian women dye their hair blond.
    The warcry u mentioned is “Marg bar” which means Death to “Insert enemy name” =).

    Anyway now you know. Remember the history is written by those that win but through history is given from generation to generation so that nobody forgets. The War in the 1980s didnt help the situation either…

    • Thank you very much for this my Aryan friend. WPWW motherfuckers!

    • hehehe The Arabs were in the beginning a war country so when they came against us we werent prepared yet) are u kidding me btw i m lebanese not arabic..but the history kid never lie..khaled eben al walid attack u in 17.000 worriers only and rostom confront them 4 times in 100.000 worriers and u were the prepared one and have elephants and and everything else..ur king kesra insult the messenger of the prophet mohammad when he asked him to convert till islam while hercacle respected even didnt accept its message..thats why ..u always feel proud against the arabs while ur civilizations is tooken the most from the babylians and assyrians and from india..and nowaday u r ruling by the fake religious enforce u to worship them in one way or another and as we hear that the chicken is expenisve more than zafaran..hope God to destroy u and hozbala the terrorist organization ur people plant in my country

    • bart

      @Julius

      “We were Blond, blue eyed and Golden or white skinned.”

      The people inhabiting the Iranian plateau were never blond and blue-eyed in the majority at any point in history. Iranians are just as “Aryan” as Indians are. If you really think Iranians today are mostly dark-haired and -eyed due to Arab admixture, you are a moron. Probably at least 85% of Iranians have jet black hair, that’s just how Iranians look.

      BTW, the ironic thing is if it weren’t for a Persian man, Salman al-Farsi, Islam wouldn’t exist. Salman’s advice to Muhammad during the Battle of the Trench saved the Muslims from being annihilated.

  144. Gay State Girl

    Richard Nixon was a Parsiphile as well.

  145. Iñaki

    Persians are not true whites (Indo-European). Why? Despite all these silly theories of Arabs mixing with Persians during Islamic times, it doesn’t hold up. Persians to a large extent lack haplogroup J, an Arab gene, this gene is found mostly among Iranian Arabs. Moreover, for Arabs to have successfully intermixed with Persians to any significant degree is numerically and logistically impossible given the enormous Persian population and the small Arabian populace: Persians outnumbered Arabs by a large multiple. It’s like saying the Mongols of the Ilkhanate in Iran had any significant genetic impact – it’s quite silly actually. Furthermore, we know the Iranian plateau was inhabited by many nations and peoples (Elamites among them) who were non-Indo-European (IE) before the Indo-Iranian speakers arrived in Iran. These non-IE populations were large civilizations who were not merely replaced by IE nomads. Mixing seems plausible but not widespread since Persians have very little of haplogroup R1a1a, a signature gene of Indo-Iranians (and Slavs). This means that in a very real sense, the shift to IE languages in Iran was mostly just linguistic and cultural, but not genetic. We find more Indo-Iranian genes in northern Indians, Kurds, Tajiks, and Pashtuns than in Persians. Tajiks, though Persian-speaking, descend from the Sogdians. In Iran, the only real European-looking people are other Iranian speaking groups, such as Caspian Sea Iranian-speakers, Kurds, and the Turkicized Azeris. Actual European-looking Persians are quite rare, and usually descend from Parthians or other IE nomads. So the reason they look mostly non-European though they speak an IE language is based off of their ancestry – previous nations (like Elamites) who were culturally assimilated by IE nomads, much in the same way that Anatolian Turks were assimilated by Central Asian Turks, with relatively little genetic input.

  146. Too Funny

    I love how none of the pictures people post to convince others of their Whiteness actually look like White people. None of the pics posted by the author or by those claiming Persians look White help your case. I see brown people.

  147. Gavin

    You’re a freaking moron. You just spew a bunch of crap about what you “think” these groups like and don’t and why they don’t like it. You’re just babbling to make yourself feel good.

  148. Parthianshot21

    Northern Iranians on average are lighter than southern Iranians. But for the most part I would say that 70% of Iranians/Persians have their own facial features, which is unique.

    Actual true Persian/Iranian nationalists I’ve met dont want to lable themselves as a color and see their Persian ethnicity and Iranian nationality as their race, as in those things come first before the color of your skin.

    Most Iranians I know dont consider themselves white, even the white looking ones.

    Further more, pan-arabists and pan-turkists are the biggest racists on the planet and both have commited genocides. Turanist young toorks commited the Armenian genocide which took the lives of more than 1 million Armenian women, men and children and saddam who was a pan-arabist bathist killed so many kurdish citizens.

  149. Parthianshot21

    I myself am a Iranian-Persian nationalist. Iranians/Persians are my race and religion, and Cyrus is my god.

    I want to help and unify all ethnic Persians through out the world aswell, whether they be Persians in Afghanistan (Tajiks, farsiwans, even Hazaras), Tajik Persians from tajikestan, Persians in China, Russia and ethnic Persians in Persian gulf “arab” countries like kuwait, bahrain, qatar and uea which consist of 20-30% of the local populations.

    I also hate pan-iranism with a passion as that ideology has degenerated Persian/Iranian nationalism into this cosmopolition bullshit ideology.

    Anyways, dorood bar shoma and sepas gozaram.

    I cannot wait for the Ressurection of Imperial Persia and the rape of the our enemies. On that day every single Iranian is going to have a huge smile on their face.

    May Ahura Mazda e bozorg be with us!

  150. Parthianshot21

    Btw, Iranians were never blue eyed and blonde haired aka nordic. Nord looking people were always a minority amongst Persians. Don’t believe such euro lies.

    There are statues of ancient Persians in Perspolis and pasargad and guess what? they look exactly like your typical Iranian of today.

    Also, Aylar lie is an azeri whore, not Persian.

    I’m Azeri myself but consider myself Persian, but just being truthful about her ethnicity.

  151. Nadir

    Iranians are not white and cannot be compared to Armenians. Not every race that gets rejected by WN idiots makes them white by nature. Just because a minority of Iranians are white doesn’t make them all white. If you want to get out of skin tone and more on the grounds of race, still no. Check the phenotypes, check the haplogroups of Iran. The ‘Italian link’ is better described as common Mesopotamian genes between Mediterranean populations and that of the Middle East and South Asia, so Iranians are no exception .

    If Iranians are white, then so are Arabs, Turks, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Nepalis (save for the mongoloid ones) and even north Indians for that matter

  152. If Ahmedinejad is not an ethnic Persian, what is he ?

  153. Real White Nationalist

    ”If Iranians are white, then so are Arabs, Turks, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Nepalis (save for the mongoloid ones) and even north Indians for that matter”

    Yeah, they’re White.

  154. Xors

    Ancient Iranic peoples were White/Aryan. Medes, Parthians, Persians, Scythians, Sarmatians, Alans, Cimmerians and … were White tribes. Original Iranians were Eastern Europeans.

    Today most Iranians are mixed, but some of them are White. Iranian are a mix of Aryans, Arabs, Mongols and Turks. But they save some of their Indo-European elements like their language Persian/Farsi.

    Some Iranians/Persians can pass as White. Persia was a White Nation and White Civilization before Arab invasion.

  155. kaveh

    I am from Iran, and I do not give a shit to be labeled as a white or brown. You can either consider us as African black if you feel better. before writing a controversial article witch such a yellow questionable title plz read more about a nation and history. you tend to generalize!

  156. Bryan

    That’s Interesting.
    Couple of years ago I met Some people coming from Italy. There were two originally Iranian among them who lived in Italy. I didn’t notice any difference between Italian and Iranian members of the group until they told me so.

  157. Yassine

    Robert Iranians have SSA admixture ?

  158. Yassine

    Robert what race these Iranians from South Iran (Sistan and Baluchestan region ) ?

    http://oi42.tinypic.com/2hwjy49.jpg

  159. Manny

    I saw the movie 300. Persians were one ugly race.
    :P

  160. bart

    Iranians on the internet will do anything to connect themselves to Europeans. The average Iranian doesn’t look European, sorry. Iranians have a minority of blond hair and blue eyes but so do many other Middle Eastern groups. Turks are closer to Europeans genetically. Even Syrian and Lebanese “Semites” have more European looks and more light eyes/blond hair than Iranians, who have a more ethnic look from my experience (which makes sense from a geographical point of view). Yet Iranians more so than any other Middle Eastern group, such as Turks and Levantines, try to link themselves to Europeans and “Aryans” (which is an Indo-Iranian term and has nothing to do with Europe, but is used by Iranians to try and associate themselves with Europeans). Language doesn’t mean much, many Indians speak IE languages but they don’t look white. When IE tribes moved into the Indian subcontinent and Iranian plateau, they mixed with aboriginal peoples already there.

    Also, looking at this PCA plot, Iranians are not any more “European” than their neighbors.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/06/jewsnat2.png

    Another plot shows that Turks, Druze, Samaritans, Cypriots, and Caucasians are all more European than Iranians.

    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/TBDp0Qi88iI/AAAAAAAACc0/_WLpsi3NeKI/s1600/magnification.jpg

    Iranians need to be proud of their WEST ASIAN heritage, and need to stop trying to distance themselves from their Turkic and Semitic neighbors so much while trying to associate with Europeans.

  161. allimcbiel

    Did anyone see the movie 300? The Iranians were not white in that movie. They all looked like Arabs.

  162. Javad

    Upper caste Indian show the same genetic relationship with Iranians and Europeans thought the haplogroup R1a and these groups speak indo European languages and contain the same root words of things in their languages. Iranians and Northern Upper Caste come from the same indo European migration group in Central Asia. Another thing Persians are not in anyway culturally similar to Arabs, arabs are predominantly haplogroup J1 and J2 and speak Arabic which is a Semitic language with Aramaic and Hebrew. whether Persians are white or not so white like pale brown skin coulour has nothing to do with Persians as a race as a whole. Persians like others have diverse looks and facial structures. For example India. There are very dark skinned Dravidian population in the south but if you keep going north you will see the Dravidian mix indo European populations getting paler all the the way up to Kashmir where people have a very pale skin and pure indo European ancestry as they have not mixed and they look European. But Indian itself over the generations it self with many cultures people and religions. Indian has been the crossroads of migrations. You would find many Chinese Asian looking people as well as well as Middle Eastern looking people who ancestors from their former lands and made India their home. For examples many Zorastrians after the Islamic conquest of Iran fled to India where they started a now flourishing community called the Parsis, though in India Parsis use Avrestra an ancient Perisan language which is like Arabic to the muslims. And another case study the Sayyids. The Sayyids are people who are related to the twelve imams who are directs descendants of the prophet Muhammad and revered figures in Shia Islam came from Arabia and Iraq to withstand persecution from the caliphates migrated to Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan and India and mixed with the local people. Notably Khatami, Khamanei, Mir Mossevi are all Sayyids. Also to note Ayatollah Khomeni the best known Iranian political cleric is also Sayyid but his father side of the family were originally Sayyids from India as his grandfather migrated from India to Iran to study but then chose to settle down in Iran and not return to India. Hindi the language of India shares many linguistic similarities with Perisan. One of the only languages to do so. After the Islamic conquests of India many empires such as the Moguls forced persian to be the main language of the empire for many centuries until the British came and forced English to be English to be the main language. Interestingly enough India’s motto is unity within diversity. Indian’s are not just one race and do not all look the same. India contains many different people and interestingly enough India is also a very genetically diverse country. India is one the oldest places in the world with diversity.

  163. Javad

    Robert do you specialise in genetics or antropology?

  164. Javad

    Robert I see you have done many great articles on many varied topics about cultures and people and topics which matter to this world and society. I praise you for your efforts of doing these articles which especially interest me. I am a student of Anthropology at Sydney Uni and am scramming for articles which are relevant to me. I also mainly prefer anthropology as rather and a Interest and passion, like this article. Cheers.

  165. Louay

    I’m Arab, and i Hate all Iranians so much. 99% of Arabs in the Arab world they hate Iranians.
    The Arabs are the only people who gave the Iranians a lesson that they wont forget it.

    The Iranians have inferiority complex and obsessed with white skin, they go around and try to convinces the Americans and Europeans that they’re white, and they are their cousins!
    We know that the Iranians are closer to Indians and Urdu, and they look like them, and they speak like them.

    Who said that the Iranians are Persians?
    Most of the Iranians are Not Persians.
    There are 30 Million Azeris
    7 Million Kurds
    6 Million Lurs
    4 Million Gelaki people
    4 Million Mazanderani people
    2-5 Million Ahwazi Arabs
    2 Million Lak people
    2 Million Hazara people
    1 million Qashqai people
    1 Million Turkmen
    1 Million Baluchi
    1 Milliom Kharasani Turks
    1 Million Bakhtiari people
    500,000 Talysh
    120,000 Armenians
    100,000 Georgians
    25,000 Jews
    20,000 Assyrian people

    And many more ethnicities that are different than Persians!
    Most of those ethnicities above they don’t consider themselves Persians, and they want to get independence and freedom special the Azeris, Kurds, Arabs, Gelakis, and Baluchis

    In so called Iran has 110 languages that are different than Persian language. Also the Persian language has 60% Arabic vocabularies!

    So called Iran was made by UK in the 20′s, and most of the Iranians map doesn’t belong to the Persians, the Persians stole south of Azerbaijan, Ahwaz (In the Arabian Gulf), south of Turkmenistan, North of Baluchistan, Assyrian land, and many more.
    Even Tehran, and Qom are an Azeri cities not Persians.
    The Persian land is in the Middle of Iran wish’s deserts such as Lut desert, and Kavir desert, those deserts are the motherland of they Persians, and it’s call (Farsistan) which means (Land of Persians).

    The Persians don’t have their identity in their own language, when the Greeks occupied them, they used to call them (Persis) in Greek language, and when the Arabs occupied them, they used to call them (Farsis) in Arabic language.
    So what’s the name of their people in their own language?
    known that the first source that mentioned the Persians was in 800 BC only!

  166. Louay

    The Arabs are Not white, we are Semitics Caucasoid, though there are some Arabs have fair or white skins special the Levantine Arabs because they mixed with Greeks along time ago, but they still are not white, they’re Arabs.
    It’s a shame for us if someone refers us to the white!
    Nope we’re not (Thank god)

    We are Not like the Iranians who are damn crazy about white skin, and inferiors! .

  167. Alexis

    LOL Iranians maybe caucasian, similar to S.Euros not at all. Maybe to the S.Euroes represented by Hollywood not to the real ones, because there never uses real S.Euro but mixes, mestizos, ews, . Please don’t go cherry picking those two or three S.Euros to prove your points, if i cherry picked Iranians you would be astonished. For the One who said Italians and Iranians are similar must be out of his mind. Take whichever genetic map, you fall from the other side of the spectrum, you have nothing to do with Italy.

  168. Jebus

    Persians like Arabs are niggers

  169. Jebus

    Dota sounds like an idiot

  170. Saman Q

    I’m an Iranian who is living in Iran , and i haven’t seen any one here to consider himself with European looking (they are some but not many) !! Do Iranians outside of Iran say that ?? Iran is a country of countries !!! very diverse , you can find any look here and there is no typical look , i’v read some comments here and many says that we look like Indian or Pakistani’s or Europeans , there a few people here that look like Indians , but also there are black peoples here ( south of Iran) and there are some European looking ones too but not many (and they are not Persian) , majority are Persians have olive skin color or whatever , i don’t know exactly what color is that , but the ones that are Persian here don’t look Europeans nor Indians , they look Persian , you should come here to see what i mean , and if you see an Iranian doesn’t mean he is Persian , i’m the one that you can say most of Persians look like !! my pic : http://cubeupload.com/im/Hh5dUN.jpg

    and Robert , do Iranians that you have seen really say they are white ?
    Its funny that how much different is between Iranians inside of Iran and outside of Iran !! here most of young people get tanned because it considers beautiful !! but it doesn’t seem like this outside !!

  171. The Statesman

    Some Iranians try hard to be recognized as “white” in the countries where they immigrate to.

    To save you the trouble, no white person is interested in listening to a lecture on the Aryan Nazi story. They have better things to do, and they use their eyes to judge.

    It is much quicker, much credible.

    No matter what you do, you will never be recognized as “white”. Don’t take anybody’s nod as a sign that they are convinced. Far from it.

    They know that you are bullshitting, but they are polite enough not to say it to you.

    Good luck !

  172. Jamshid

    Ayatollah Khomenei family is from India from his fathers side. So he is not typical Iranian.

  173. Iraniproudgirl786

    Many people think as Indians and Pakistanis and other South Asian who can go as Middle Eastern or European dark or just brown. There are heaps of Indians in the very north who lighter then Arabs and some Persian such as Kashmiris and Imran Khan the famous cricketer from Pakistan. If you go tot the very South Iran you will find really dark skinned people there not mixed its just cause of the climate and they are still regarded as Persians and speak Persian. If you to central Iran likes places like Yazd and Kerman you will also a lot of tanned people cause of the extreme hot weather, for example look up Moshe Katsav former President Of Israel his family comes from Yazd and he looks tanned and not WHITE! But if you go in the very North of Iran where there are cold places like Gilan, Kurdistan and East Azerbaijan you will find lots of extreme light skinned people who can be compared to Europeans. Iranians respect and consider all Iranians as Iranians regardless of their skin colour or looks I have also seen many Iranians who can count looking so called South Asian. Iran has different skin colours and we dont consider ourselves belonging to White people and europeans and or even Arabs. We have a proud culture and nation. And to answer no Iranians are not WHITE!! And this also a ridiculous topic to have a discussion on. And when was Admedinejad not Persian his family background is from Iran and I have not heard of him being a Turkmen, Azeri, Belochi, Arab or even Pastoun, his original Persian you are disregarding cause of his looks so what are you talking about.

  174. SHI

    I’ve known a few Iranians myself and they always seemed like good, gracious, hospitable and charming human beings something you can’t say about the vast majority of my countrymen – miserable fucks lacking humour and the large-hearted generosity you will find among Iranians. Many Persian words, phrases and even idioms have made their presence in Hindustani vocabulary which makes Bollywood a big draw in Iran as they can pretty much follow those movies (at least the songs) without need for translation or subtitles. Iran and India had historically very close relations spanning thousands of years of mutual respect except for conflicting episodes like Nader Shah’s invasion of Delhi in 1739. In recent years, however, India has politically drifted toward Israel (and by extension the “Jewnited States”) which is the right thing to do the only hope for Hindoo heathens they should not be on the wrong side of God’s chosen people. Iran’s biggest challenge is that they are stuck in a filthy religion imposed on them by those illegitimate sons of Abraham called Ishmael which plagiarizes Judaism and Christianity but has been perverted in the worst possible manner. You’re right, Iran would have been on the side of America had it not been for the moon-worshipping Islamists.

    The Iranians I met are in fact, Muslims only in name. They do not observe the Islamic ban on alcohol consumption when they come to India, do not pray 5 times a day to a false god like the Arabs and even Indian Muslims; their women dress provocatively (often garish) are freely approachable and less bitchy compared to Indian princess atiitudes, more similar to Russian or Central Asian girls. Ahmadinjad is an exception, quite a lot of Iranians are handsome in appearance with Aryan features.

    I wouldn’t recommend Iranians drifting back to Zoroastrianism. That religion has insane rituals like open air cremation (birds and insects consume dead body in full view of the sunlight…creepy). The only way that land could be saved is through the Bible like all other lands.

  175. I actually think Zoroastrianism was worse than Islam.

    I like Iran’s Buddhist roots more. Buddhism actually traveled to Iran prior to its spread, and a Buddhist missionary named An Shigao brought Buddhism to China. Bodhidharma (founder of Zen) is also claimed to be Persian in Chinese sources. Moreover, the Sassanian Persians were persecuting Manichaeists, Buddhists, and Christians. Bahram I had Mani killed for example. The Zoroastrian magi of Sassanian time periods were corrupt, following a distort interpretation of Zoroastrianism (unlike the kind Achaeminids). The Arabs did us a favor by disposing of the Sassanian Empire.

    After Islam spread, Iran had a heightened period of intellectual growth. I attribute this to the fact racial boundaries were momentarily “broken down” and Turks, Chinese, Persian, and Arab scholars were all collaborating with each other Central Asia. Iran produced many great intellectuals such as Al Khwarizmi, Rhazes, Omar Khayyam (who my parents still read), Avicenna, and etc. around this time period.The Safavid Empire was the last strong empire of Iran.

    I think one needs to be done is for Iran to move towards a more Sufi interpretation of Islam, one that encourages diversity and not rigid imposed values. That way it can also be friendlier with its neighbors and encourage growth. However, the effects of the Iran-Iraq war still linger, and I doubt Iran will recover from that. The Qajars, Pahlavis, and this new wretched regime have technically destroyed Iran, and most of its smart people are leaving causing “brain drain”. The death of a great country, sadly.

  176. The Iranian Inferiority Complex

    The Iranians have extremely inferiority complex, and obsessed with white skins!
    They deny their Indian roots, and their brown skin!
    They want to be white by force! Well, they should use some Skin Whitening Injections (Just like Michael Jackson) and dye their oily hair, and use contact lens. The Iranian government should imports a tons of those stuff to make a solution!
    LMAO XD!! Those creatures are the the most joke in this planet!
    Thank god i’m not Iranian.

    • They do not have Indian roots.

      • The Iranian Inferiority Complex

        Then what are they?
        Their language is exactly like Indian language! Also i’ve seen a lot of Iranians look like Indians!
        The real Persians were (Indo-Iranic) who originated in North India.
        No mention that all Iranians today are almost NOT Persians, they are Azeris, Turkmens, Baluchis, Kurds, Arabs, Lurs, Qashgai, Talysh, Gilakis, and Mazandaranis.
        Even the Gilakis and Mazandaranis are NOT Persians, they are of Greek and Macedonian descent from “Amard” which’s a Greek tribe (Non-Aryans) who lived in Mazandaran on the Caspian Sea before the Persians came from India.

        • Iranians do not come from Indians. They both come from the Stans to the north. Iranians are only related to the lighter skinned North Indians of the north of India.

        • Zulu Lesbian Construction Company

          You are right about the number of people who are not Farsi or Persian in Iran. I believe the other races are all over Iran. I wonder how many Farsi people actually live in Iran. I have heard about a half are Farsi. So Iran is a is a bit like Yugoslavia before it split up as regards the variety of races there.

          The desire to be called white is quite strong among the persians because of their strong inferiority complex. One could even call it the “Death to America inferiority” complex. The root is a sense of inferiority. You never ever see the americans doing a “death to Iran” demonstration. Americans just do not give a damn about Iran; but in Iran this a national pastime and some people have done it for decades and have even passed the torch of “death to america” demonstrating to their grandchildren!

          The pictures posted at Stromfront regularly disprove the thesis that that persians are white. Someone (a persian) always pops up with the “we are white” thesis and gets a thread going and then that gets trashed. Iranians are mostly dark and often look like indians. At the most one can say they are Dark Caucasians.

          To be white means all are white not just one or two Azeris with blonde hair. My niece has red hair and I am indian. That does not mean indians are white because of one person. Indians are most definitely a dark race. To be a white race all must have white skin. Anything else is lie and an attempt to become white when that is not the reality.It is a bit like when blacks or Arabs claim to have invented everything and well it just not true. It is easy to see through.

          To penetrate through the “Persians are white” thesis one only has to google a few “death to America” demonstration images of this happening in Iran and you will see that the people are dark. It is that simple.

  177. The Iranian Inferiority Complex

    Ugh, don’t tell me about them, i don’t know from where should i start to talk about their dirty acts.
    Absolutely they are weirdos, and have very strong inferiority complex. They live in the in 500 AD by talking about history and some crap things. They bother their neighbors. They abuse the Internet to slur the other nations. They always say they are superior, and their country is great, while they sleep in front of the west Embassies to get visa in order to leave their shithole. Also Iran is still third world, no real industry, no high education, no high health care, Nothing! I can’t believe that Indian’s cousins are arrogant! And many many more from bad things they have like envy, hateful, rude..etc
    What the hell are those people, from where did they came from?
    Oh god.

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