We Don’t Listen To You

This post will follow on the heels of the We Don’t Respect You post, and it’s along the same lines. It grows out of some recent comments in the comments threads.

The discussion was about who created Political Correctness. I agree with the White nationalists that it was created by White Jewish and Gentile liberals. I don’t think that Blacks or Hispanics played much of a role in it, and that is because we Whites won’t listen to them. Further, I don’t think that Blacks or Hispanics are good enough at propaganda to be able to push the PC thing through. The best propagandists are Jews, and White Gentiles are pretty good too.

Whites would never have allowed Hispanics and Blacks to brainwash White America into going along with PC. Why? Because we don’t listen to Blacks and Hispanics, at least when they are talking race. We do listen to our fellow Whites though. And that’s how our fellow Whites were able to implement the PC regime.

Blacks and Hispanics nowadays, and to a much lesser extent our liberal White brethren, are great at shaming Whites. Any sensible talk about race by Whites is immediately shouted down by Blacks and Hispanics as racism. Whites are afraid of being called racists. I think it’s more true to say that Whites are afraid of criticizing Blacks nowadays than to say we are racists who slam them at every opportunity.

Personally, I am very afraid of criticizing Blacks, or maybe any minority, on this site, since I always get the “shaming” treatment whenever I do it. So instead of being some ranting racist, I’m more of a White guy who’s afraid to say “boo.”

A commenter brought up the Civil Rights Movement and pointed out that Whites listened to Blacks in that era. True, but many did not or hated what Blacks were saying. My friends and I listened to them, and agreed with much, though not all, of what they said. If Blacks are saying something sensible about race, we will to listen. Increasingly, that’s not the case. Civil rights is about through, and it’s been replaced by PC, which is mostly Blacks and Hispanics screaming and yelling about nothing.

A commenter points out that Whites got very upset about Reverend Wright’s anti-White comments. It’s true, but usually only racist Whites get bent about that stuff. The more racist the White person, the more freaked out they get when Blacks do their hate-Whitey shtick. If you go over to American Renaissance, you will find many articles about Blacks dissing Whites, followed by comments from outraged racist Whites ranting about the latest horror of their worst enemy.

The racists there see US Blacks as the worst enemies of Whites. My friends and I think that is ridiculous, and we do not think that Blacks are capable of much. Sure, they riot once in a while, but that’s not the end of the world. Truth is, the Black community is too screwed up, dysfunctional and ultimately incompetent to harm the White American community. If some White guy tells me that Blacks are my worst enemy, that’s like telling me that some little kid is my worst enemy.

So my friends and I don’t take Blacks all that seriously when they are doing the rant thing, and we are not worried about them. When they are doing their anti-White thing, we figure it’s just Black people acting like Black people. Do you kick your cat and throw it across the room for acting like a cat and fighting with the other cat? When Blacks act this way, it’s like a little kid throwing a temper tantrum, and about as reasonable and dangerous. It’s a joke.

Now, if a Black person is making sense about race (increasingly unlikely these days), my friends and I are going to listen. Blacks and White liberals recently have suggested that a lot of the (almost all White) rage and hatred against Obama is ultimately rooted in racism. It was an interesting theory, and I thought about it a long time, and finally decided that they were right.

But Blacks these days are mostly raving about nothing. Obama is “articulate.” The Professor Gates episode. The “black holes” comment. The fake Black stripper rape. The fake Jena 6 episode. The James Watson remarks about Africa. On and on and on.

49 Comments

Filed under Anti-Racism, Blacks, Civil Rights, Cultural Marxists, Europeans, Hispanics, Race Relations, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, Scum, Sociology, The Jewish Question, White Nationalism, White Racism, Whites

49 responses to “We Don’t Listen To You

  1. alpha unit

    You’re right, Robert. Whites don’t listen to us, because they don’t respect us.

    They listen to one another. Maybe they ought to find someone else to listen to, if their current problems are any indication.

    • Exactly. We don’t listen to you because we don’t respect you. That’s it pretty much.

      Now, if some Black guy is on TV talking about physics or linguistics or spotted owl conservation biology or computer software or the best coffee to drink or something like that, sure I’m going to listen to him. And I always listened to the Black anchors on the news. The news is the news.

    • Prole

      I respect you, Alpha Unit.

    • alpha unit

      You’re very kind, Prole.

  2. Mort Goldman

    Probably also why most Jews don’t regard black antisemitism as a big deal. A lot of Jews get pissed off at Farrakhan, but most would admit that in the final analysis they just don’t care that much.

    • They’re not a threat to the Jews. Yeah, I can see that…What are they going to do to us, anyway? Rise up and overthrow us? Forget it.

    • alpha unit

      Even our antisemitism doesn’t make the grade. Damn.

    • mort goldman

      Well… Part of it is that antisemitic beliefs are fairly widesoread and acceptable in the black community. Most black people I know hold them, but don’t take them that seriously. I could be pissy about it, but it doesn’t even affect how they relate to me. I suppose if I did something “Jewish” to them like cheated them out of money for example, it might come out, but otherwise, it means nothing. I even know a card carrying Fruit of Islam guy who works at the local Radio Shack, and we talk about technology and video games, etc., and he can’t even seem to work up enough antisemitism to be coldly polite.

      OTOH, when I see people like some of the WN posters here, I know they *really* hate Jews. They base their lives on it, to some degree or another. If I met them in real life, I couldn’t imagine a civil exchange. I’ve never met a black antisemite who can measure up to that. Sorry, but it’s true.

    • Eman

      Jew Moneyman:”Most black people I know hold them, but don’t take them that seriously.”

      They will take them more seriously once we can spread the word to more Blacks in the Americas that Jews are the people who mostly ran and masterminded the trans-Atlantic African slave-trade.

    • alpha unit

      Well, thanks for your response to that.

      You know, the longer this conversation goes on, the more fascinating it gets. Evidently Blacks are less of a threat than anyone ever knew.

    • tulio

      They’re not a threat to the Jews. Yeah, I can see that…What are they going to do to us, anyway? Rise up and overthrow us? Forget it.

      I think this condescension towards blacks is going a bit overboard, and I’m seeing ignorance of recent history as well. Have you guys not heard of the Crown Heights Riots in NYC in the early 90s? It has been regarded as perhaps the worse anti-Jewish pogrom in U.S. history. It was done by blacks.

    • Well perhaps you may see as condescension tulio, but this is a free speech board here, and I pretty much just call em like I see em, fans in the bleachers be damned.

      The way I and my friends view Blacks is that they are not a threat to us for a variety of reasons. One is that they are thoroughly disorganized. Another is that they lack the discipline to coherently put their diffused anger towards Whites towards usurping us. Another is that deep down inside, Blacks don’t really want to usurp us, because they know that they need us. Blacks are not stupid, and they are not really that arrogant. They are quite reasonable people really.

      I don’t think Blacks want to usurp us Whites, I think they just want a place at the table. And their rage is not so much directed towards overthrowing us as it is towards wanting us to work hand in hand with them in an equitable manner. They want to share this country with us Whites, not toss us aside and take over. Also, I don’t think most Blacks really think they are superior to Whites. Most usurpers feel superior.

      Another thing is that the Black community is completely overwhelmed and pretty much nuked by their own problems. They are 10 feet under with their own unfathomable issues and they don’t have time, energy or inclination to revolt against us.

      I really feel that Blacks are not organized enough to do this either. The Organized Black Movement seems so chaotic that I wonder how they could organize a trip to the bathroom, much less overthrow Whitey.

      Bottom line is racists who are terrified of Blacks displacing or usurping Whitey and who regard Blacks as the worst enemy of the White man are utter fools.

      Now we ARE worried about Muslims and especially Hispanics. Hispanics are *very much* a threat to us here for a variety of reasons that I may go into later.

      Muslims are just out and out dangerous, and they’ve proven this many times. Scary people.

      Blacks? Give it up.

      American Indians? You’re making me laugh. In order to have a revolution, you have to get up early in the morning, and most Indians are probably too hung over to get out bed before noon.

    • tulio

      I think the fear from the racists isn’t so much fear of being usurped. I think the fear is of crime. Especially fear of white women being raped by black men. That one runs very deep with the WNs.

    • tulio, maybe you need to go hang out on their boards a bit. One I recommend is American Renaissance. It’s basically the far moderate end of the White nationalist movement. It’s nothing like Stormfront at all.

      If you go there, you will see this theme played out over and over. An absolute terror of Blacks. Blacks as the worst enemy of Whites, filled with hatred, often homicidal, towards Whites. Blacks determined to make some sort of revolution to overthrow Whitey and take over the whole country. Their fear and hatred of Blacks is far worse than that of any other group. They don’t even care about Hispanics or Muslims all that much. That’s why I call White racism against Blacks The Mother of All Hatreds.

      They go on about this all the time. Obama is the first step in total Black rule of the US. Blacks all over the US are plotting to take over. They will come in and fire all the Whites and replace them with incompetent Blacks. And if Obama is not stopped soon, this takeover will be complete.

      Now you just heard my opinion about Black capabilities or even desires in this area. I think it’s total nonsense. I don’t even think that Blacks are filled with all this raging hatred towards us. Yeah, they have some anger, but I’m not all that scared of em, and if you treat them with decency, most of them will be pretty civil to you. Recall I taught in the ghetto for years and never had any more Black problems than a slashed car battery cable.

      Further, the Blacks at those schools were always very happy to see me, since most folks won’t work there. They respect a competent White man who treats them with respect and dignity and doesn’t act like he’s better.

      As far fears of Black crime, *the vast majority of Whites* are afraid of this! Including me! And yeah, when I moved to this town, one of the things I wanted to hear was how many Blacks lived here. I was told there were very few Blacks, and therefore, the crime was at a tolerable level. Sure, the racists are afraid of Black crime, but really, almost all of us Whites are. As far as Blacks raping White women, yeah, that’s one of their obsessions. Or even screwing our women.

      Now me, I don’t really care. I’m pretty secure about that stuff and I’ve had tons of success with women in my life, so I’m not all insecure about White women. Black guys are not going to rape all our women, and they aren’t even going to screw all of them. To tell you truth, a lot of us guys feel that White women with Jungle Fever are more or less sluts anyway!

      There are some Blacks in this town here, but I almost never see a Black man with a White woman. In the mountains where I hang out, it’s very White, but there are tons of tourists. You would assume that some of those White women could go find a Black guy somewhere and bring him around. You would think you would see some Black male tourists with White women.

      Truth is up there too, you almost never see a Black guy with a White woman.

      They also think that tons of Black crime is racist crime, specifically directed against Whites out of sheer racist hate. I have no idea if that’s true, and I’ve spent ages thinking about it, but I doubt it. I figure Black criminals just attack anyone and everyone. I really doubt if they attack Whites much out of sheer racist rage and hatred. Anyway, it seems like they mostly attack their own kind.

    • alpha unit

      I don’t know. I could listen to how non-threatening and uninteresting Black people are for hours.

    • tulio

      I just don’t think I can lurk on anymore WN forums. First for one thing, when I tried to rebut their arguments on SF, I was frequently censored, even when being 100% civil. Secondly, I just have better things to do with my short time on this planet. People of this extremity are only a few percentage of the population and represent no realistic threat other than the occasion wacko arrested for threatening the president. The only utility I see in spending any time in there is in trying to study the psychology of racism and what makes such people tick. Like you’ve mentioned before, you can learn something about white views in general by looking at these forums, though most whites will have more moderate forms of these views or suppress them altogether and attempt to be PC. I had to quit SF after a month because it was depressing. Being steeped in so much hate begins to effect the mood of the reader. Even when you know you are right. I got the feeling that these guys are just miserable people period. Even if I was white and agreed with their aims 100%, I couldn’t see these being folks I’d want to socialize with in any way. They just seem like sour, embittered souls.

  3. tulio

    Your view that blacks are not a threat to whites seems to be the exact opposite of what the WNs say who think that only racial separation will save the white race. Interestingly, your position is the same as many, liberals. I’m sure Professor Gates feels blacks are no threat to whites as well, however the underlying reasons for that conclusion are different.

    • Yeah, it’s weird because they see you as their worst enemy. You are this horrible deadly threat to them. They even talk about how Blacks move into a White town, slowly take it over, and soon it’s majority Black and gone to Hell. Then the Whites have to run to a new town. Well, sadly there is a certain truth there, but they say that soon the Whites will run out of towns to run to because all towns in the US will be majority-Black!

      Whoa! I had to think about that one for a while. There’s no way on Earth that every town in the US could even be majority Black, and there’s no way that every town could even be at least 13% Black, since Blacks concentrate, so it’s not possible to spread Blacks evenly so they are 13% everywhere.

      But there are TONS of them that insist that this is going to happen and they are terrified of it. At one point, I even got into this stupid mental thing where I was wondering if they might be right cuz so many of them insisted on this. But no matter how much I thought about it, there was no way we could have Black majorities in every town. I couldn’t even get large minorities in every town.

      They also insist that Obama is the first wave of the Black takeover of the US, some kind of Black dictatorship that is going to usurp Whitey. That’s so stupid that I almost laugh, but almost all of them seem to believe it.

      *These people are really terrified of you*!

  4. Eman

    tulio:”only racial separation will save the white race.”

    Get a clue WHITE AMERICA and TAKE YOUR CHOICE – it is either full and permanent RACIAL SEPARATION or else the inevitable MONGRELIZATION of the White race here in North America as slowly we become yet another multiracial cesspool like Brazil, India, Mexico, North Africa, etc: http://www.churchoftrueisrael.com/tyc/tyc_toc.html – “OUR NATION is now standing at the crossroads, and we must choose between a white or mongrel America of the future. The Negro problem can be adequately solved only by the physical separation of the races. There are but two roads – separation or mongrelization – and we must take our choice.”

  5. tulio

    Even our antisemitism doesn’t make the grade. Damn.

    I wouldn’t say that. Jessie Jackson was beat over the head for years for that “Hymie town” incident back in the 80s.

    Nobody hears much about black anti-semetism because it’s really not a defining element of the black struggle. Blacks by and large are not worried about Jews one way or the other.

    • Mort’s point is that Jews are not worried about Black anti-Semitism. It’s a nonstarter. What they are worried about is White anti-Semitism, which is more or less neo-Nazism. That has a rather frightening history behind it and they have shown themselves capable of and willing to commit some real serious harm to the Jews, like slaughtering millions of them. And you know they want to try to do it again, too.

      The fact that Jackson got pummeled over that remark does not mean people are scared of Black anti-Semitism. It just means that there’s a lot of shaming going on towards anyone who says “Boo” to the Jews. They have so much media and political power in the US that not one person can say two unkind words about them and not have their career wiped out forever. A White man probably would have been treated the same way.

      However, something tells me that a White might have gotten away with it better. I think a lot of it was White and especially Jewish anger towards Jackson as some kind of an uppity and radical Black man. A lot of Whites really, really hate Jackson as some sort of a “poverty pimp,” and his Hymietown remark was just a way to pummel the uppity Black man and put him in his place. The same conservatives who hate Jackson’s guts and nowadays almost completely free of anti-Semitism, no matter what the paranoid Jews say. US conservatism now is characterized in part by masked animus towards Blacks and overt and shameless Judeophilia.

      You can see both elements in play in the pummeling of Jackson over this rather harmless remark.

  6. Shawn

    For any real movement to take effect it has to attract the elite of a population. The reason unions lost their clout was because high verbal IQ types left for white collar work. A college education did not used to be essential.

    Skinheads and KKK types are just about entirely made up of low-class Whites, are are more likely to have high IQs.

    Looking at the National Socialist leaders, we find that they were very high IQ. See here:

    http://www.gnxp.com/MT2/archives/003155.html

    I cannot think of one example where Blacks compose the elite in a multiracial “society” (oxymoron).

  7. Mort Goldman

    Another thing: I can sort of see how black antisemitism is legitimate. There is a long history of Jewish slumlords and substandard, overpriced Jewish stores in the black community. A stereotype to be sure, but like all stereotypes, it has a grain of truth. And as for the Crown Heights thing, the ultraorthodox community are, as a group, *not very nice* to people they regard as other. OTOH, WNs just seem crazy and irrational to me. I don’t think they have any legitimate complaints against the Jews, and my attitude toward crazy people is to stay out of their way until they get in your way.

    • Prole

      “And as for the Crown Heights thing, the ultraorthodox community are, as a group, *not very nice* to people they regard as other.”

      Sometimes the “other” can be non-Orthodox, Reform Jews as well, I believe.

  8. FrankBD

    I disagree about all this being primarily the work of Jews; at least not “qua: Jews, maybe as a correlate to liberal intellectuals in general.

    But I think what created PC and has empowered the civil rights of perpetual complaint is an intellectual alliance with feminism. Fifty years ago, America was a white male-centric society, and it was simply assumed that laws that treated blacks and women differently were based on legitimate differences about their stations. Both civil rights and feminism started by campaigning against what would realistically be called a discriminatory society.

    Then the discriminatory laws were repealed, but blacks and women (now with Hispanics as an important demographic) still weren’t achieving equally, so they needed new doctrines like results-based affirmative action and diversity, based on the assumption that inequality of results was prima facie proof of lack of opportunity. Which is why research into IQ differences by race (Watson) or suggesting that women’s choices and aptitudes drive lack of equal achievement in science (Summers) “has no place in the debate” (the exact works Oxford used to dismiss Watson).

    Neither blacks nor feminists could win politically beyond achieving equality laws if they didn’t form a voting bloc to demand equal results. Strategically, what the WC’s (White Culturalists) need to do is break that linkage by convincing one party (white women would probably be easier) that they don’t have nearly the same political goals as the other, and to stop white maleness from being a political rallying cry.

  9. Mort Goldman

    Just to clarify: I don’t necessarily think WNs are all clinically mentally ill, but from a practical POV it’s best to look at them that way because they sure ain’t rational. I’ve tried to understand why they might look at the world the way they do, and a migraine was the only result.

    Tulio, I completely agree with what you say about the WN boards. I used to lurk on some of them too, and it was very depressing and disheartening. Best to occupy oneself w/ people whose opinions actually count, IMO. You’ll be surprised how much more hopeful and optimistic you’ll feel w/ only a couple days away from it.

    • FrankBD

      Yeah, I went to SF for a couple of days, attracted by an “every race but whites are supposed to feel pride” article that had been cross-posted to another site I was reading.

      I decided that what unified them even more than hating blacks was anti-Semitism and holocaust denial. That’s when I switched to AmRen, whose articles are quite reasonable, even if the comments section is dominated by reflexive haters.

  10. tulio

    Thinking a bit more about this matter of blacks being too disorganized to present any “threat”, I feel I need to address that topic a bit more. I was just thinking about blacks in the U.S. versus blacks in Latin America and the notable achievement gap between say Afro-Americans and Afro-Brazilians.

    In America, blacks probably have the strongest sense of group loyalty/racial identity than any of the other races. Or maybe we should simply call it the sense of “peoplehood”. I don’t think this exists in Latin America much. If you want to REALLY talk about a place where blacks are not a threat as any organized force, and where blacks are REALLY ignored, it’s Latin America. Blacks there even ignore each other in a sense as they will try to define themselves as mulattos or zambos or one of the other terms to define the particular degree of African-ness. People whose black identity would be beyond dispute in America may not even identify as black if they were in the Dominican Republic or Brazil.

    There has never been much of an organized black civil rights movement that sought to gain respect and equality for blacks in Latin America. Those that do try to organize blacks there seem to be perpetually frustrated. The whites of Latin America could care less about the black condition, and the blacks don’t even want to identify as black yet alone join a black organization. Being a black civil rights organizer in Latin America must be the most frustrating job on earth.

    In the United States however, blacks have organized for their rights brilliantly. Drawing inspiration from the non-violent movement of Ghandi and drawing themes of freedom and rights from the founding fathers(which whites could identify with), as well as a measured decision to distance the civil rights movement from the alienating afrocentric movement, black Americans were able to obtain equal rights and recognition under the law. We kind of take it for granted now, but it was a marvelous achievement. I mean we’ve gone from Rosa Parks to Barack Obama in just one generation. No wonder tears were streaming down the face of civil rights leaders at his victory speech. A haphazard black movement could not have changed such a situation around in such a short period of time. It was quite an achievement. There is no parallel for Latin American blacks who truly are disorganized and powerless.

    • alpha unit

      I agree with you that the Black civil rights movement was impressive. I have great respect for all those people, some of whom lost their lives in that struggle.

      As you probably know, some people don’t give Black people the credit for that movement. They are happy to state that the whole thing was a Jewish front.

      Of course, without allies Black people could not have achieved what they did. That’s a reality for any minority.

  11. Jack

    The discussion reminds me of the country’s oldest and largest civil rights organization – the NAACP.

    The NAACP cannot function without Jewish money. When Ben Chavis, a well-known civil rights activist, was hired to head the organization in the early 90s, the Jewish funders simply held back their contribution because of his past support for the PLO and his outreach to all segments of the black community, including the Nation of Islam. And the Forward kept attacking him until he was forced to resign. Not very effectual, the NAACP. He who pays the piper calls the tune. Same can be said about the Congressional Black Caucus.

    The Black civil rights movement was impressive. The Blacks were at the forefront, joined by Jews, Asians and other minorities. But without Jewish money, brains, lawyers, and organizational skills, the movement would not have been triumphant — at least not in that short amount of time.

    Some argue that Jew leaders used the Civil rights movement as a proxy war against the White establishment. Maybe there is some truth to that. The WASP have lost their grip on “power”, and Jews have since become part of the establishment. And American blacks, though no longer voiceless and invisible, still are considered as the most disenfranchised group in America.

    • tulio

      I don’t know to what extend Jews were involved in the early days of the civil rights movement. I know they contributed financially, but to what extent they were involved in the daily operations I’m not entirely sure. I suspect that it isn’t as much as WNs claim and I think that this particular narrative serves to reinforce 2 beliefs held near and dear to WNs: 1) Belief in Jewish conspiracies to undermine white gentiles in any way possible and 2) belief in black intellectual inferiority(“these guys are too dumb to organize themselves in any productive manner!”).

      Let’s not forget that the civil rights movement began as a grassroots movement. It has it’s origins in black churches, black barbershops and the streets of small towns in the south. It wasn’t Jews that came along with this plan to organize blacks, tell them what to do, and what to say and when to say it. Rosa Parks didn’t have a Jew tell her what to do on that faithful day that she stood up to a white man.

      As for the NAACP, they got Jewish financing, but it’s not as if they were somehow singularly responsible for the civil rights movement. This was a movement born in black churches, not synagogues. The NAACP of today is completely irrelevant in black life and is struggling for direction and purpose. There just isn’t much of one at this point.

    • Jack

      tulio, I don’t know whether or not the NAACP was financed by Jewish money during the CR movement. I was talking about what has been going on with the NAACP and the Congressional Black Caucus in the last 20 years. The outside money make them ineffectual in the black community. This is almost 2010. If the black community even can’t even support a group like the NAACP, how organized and effective the CR movement would be in the 60s without Jewish help?

      I learned a lot from Jewish writers about Jewish involvement in the CR movement. My conclusion wasn’t that Blacks were dumb. My conclusion was that Jews were too good at what they did. Blacks simply didn’t have the experience, expertise and money to combat the White establishment alone.

      Given the fact that Blacks historically didn’t have the same access as Jews did, that Blacks or Asians or other minorities weren’t as good as Jews in many areas is understandable. For example, Jews had played very important roles in organizing labor unions way before the CR movement. Another example, the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government on the same day that the Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed the new State of Israel. The reason? The Jewish leaders lobbied Truman on behalf of Israel. The Time magazine and numerous books have written about it. It would be unimaginable that other minority groups would have that kind of access back in 1948.

      Would Blacks be able to do it without Jewish influence? Maybe. I certainly would think the struggle would be a lot longer and tougher.

  12. Mic Mic

    First of all you should feel threatened by Black people because not only do we have years of strength and overcoming on our side but we aren’t descended from a race that has dominated and stolen from others and then claimed everything as theirs.

    If you do your research you’ll discover that you aren’t that separate at all from Black people.

    In fact all races in the end descend from Black people in Africa. So calling yourself “white” is really just a title you give yourself. The thought of you being superior to anyone is even more ridiculous… Because when you die your skin is going to turn brown and you’ll look just like the very people that you don’t respect.

    I dislike ghetto people myself but only because of their practices and actions. I don’t like someone dismissing education, uplifting destroying their community, and being unwilling to broaden their horizons. A redneck can act the same way!

    It’s people. Not black not white or Jewish but just people and the choices they make. Until you realize that you will always be blinded to the facts and unable to join in the group of everyone.

    Whites aren’t exclusive. Blacks aren’t exclusive because it’s already proven we’re all the same. Your descendants just stayed out of the sun too long…

  13. randy

    i don’t know…the civil rights movement seems just, but look at the outcome. i think blacks are way more fucked up than they were before. i mean, segregation is bullshit, but look at what we have going on now.

    there’s definitely a set of black people (growing majority?) that ruin things for all the other black folks. saying shit like “you act too white” and fucking up the classrooms, so nobody black can get an education.

    • tulio

      What some call “black problems” aren’t getting worse. At worse they have leveled off some time ago. Crime has been trending down since the early 90s. Black home ownership rates had been rising until the recession hit. I’d read that black single motherhood rates are now falling. As for education, I think it’s getting worse across the board. The black middle class went from being a minority before the civil rights era to being a majority now. American students just aren’t that competitive anymore, period.

  14. lafayettesennacherib

    ” WNs just seem crazy and irrational to me. I don’t think they have any legitimate complaints against the Jews… ”

    Mostly they just strike me as infantile, but the DO have legitimate complaints against the jews; the trouble is that they bundle them together with a lot of totally spurious ones, which only serves to discredit by association the genuine grounds for complaint, in the same way that the small percentage of space-lizard believers amongst the critics of the official 9/11 conspiracy theory are used to discredit the rest.
    Is it legitimate to make a general complaint against ‘the jews’ rather than the zionists, or the elite jews? I’ve posted below some points that count as pros and cons to that, from the brilliant recent essay by James Petras ‘the Deadly embrace’

    http://tinyurl.com/yzlgp89

    (If you care about yourself, friends and family, never mind your country, you have to read this – then read his books on the power of Israel)

    But first, relevant to a lot of the discussion above, Petras says:
    ” As in the case of Congresswoman McKinney, Zionist ‘punishment’ against African-American politicians is particularly vehement.”

    Here’s the pros and cons re the view that ‘the jews are to blame’. I conclude that no – they’re not, but the zionists/ jew firsters’ networks go deep into all jewish life, and ‘the jews’ need to do a lot more to shake them off – passive acquiescence is some kind of guilt.

    [ PRO]
    …Israeli public opinion was overwhelmingly in favor of the war as were all the leaders of the major American Jewish organization, but not the majority of American Jews, especially young Jews and those who were not members of any of the Zionist (Israel First) front organizations….

    ….Let us be perfectly clear that the ZPC, the Presidents of the Major American Jewish Organizations, the Rahm Emanuels (Israeli-Americans) controlling the Democratic caucus agenda…do not always and everywhere speak for the majority of American Jews, especially on the denial of the Turkish genocide of the Armenians. Pugnacious ADL President Abraham Foxman found out in Watham, Massachusetts that both the local Armenian-American community and their Jewish-American compatriots and neighbors do not tolerate the denial of genocide – even by the ADL. Substantial sectors of American Jews object to Clinton’s war mongering and find her servile truckling to Israeli officials offensive, even obscene. Zionist polls reveal the majority of educated young American Jews are less and less interested in Israel and its local Fifth Column – much to the chagrin of the self-styled ‘leaders’ of the community. Saying that a Jewish minority speaks in the name of an unwilling majority, however, does not lessen its power and stranglehold over US political institutions and public opinion with regard to policy or appropriations touching on the Middle East or Israeli-defined interests.

    [ CON]
    … equally or even more important in censoring and purging critics, controlling local media and shaping opinion throughout cities, towns and villages are the local Jewish community federations and organizations which browbeat local cultural programmers, editors, bookstores, universities, churches and civic groups to deny public platforms to speakers, writers, artists, religious spokespeople and other public figures critical of Israel and its Zionist disciple. The power base of the ZPC is found in the local activist doctors, dentists, lawyers, real estate brokers and landlords who preside over the local confederations and their several hundred thousand affiliates. It is they who harass, badger, browbeat, raise money and organize propaganda junkets…
    ————————————————————-
    [ More on the ‘zionist power configuration’]

    … In complete contradiction to the ‘leftist’ Trotskyist-Zionist finger pointing at Big Oil as the main push for war, big Texas oil was working profitable with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, signing hundreds of millions of dollars in illegal contracts with the now executed ruler. ….

    … the oil companies were not actively supporting the war via propaganda, congressional lobbying or through any other policy vehicle….

    ….Big Oil, Texas billionaires, even big contributors to the Bush family political campaigns were no match for the ZPC when it came to Middle East war policy. They lacked the inside and outside power, the disciplined grass roots organization of Jewish community organizations to overcome the Zionist warmongering power over Congress, their position in strategic executive offices and their army of academic scribes from Harvard, Yale and Hopkins churning out bellicose propaganda in the US media. What is striking about the position papers and op-ed reprints in the Daily Alert is the total absence of any deviation from official Israeli pro-war positions: Whether it is killing children in Jenin, bombing population centers in Lebanon, shelling Arab families relaxing at the beach in Gaza, the Daily Alert simply echoes the official Israeli line and blatant lies about human shields, accidents, gunmen among school children, self-induced atrocities. Never in the entire period analyzed is there a single critical article questioning Israel’s massive displacement of hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. No crime against humanity is too great for the Presidents of the Leading American Jewish Organizations to defend. It is this slavish obedience to the official Israeli policy that marks out the Zionist Power Configuration as something much more than just another lobby as its ‘left’ apologists and even Walt and Mearsheimer claim. The ZPC is much more sinister both as a transmission belt for the policies and interests of a colonial power hell-bent on domination in the Middle East and as the most serious authoritarian threat to our democratic freedoms: no single individual who dares criticize can escape the long hand of the pro-Israel authoritarians. Book sellers are picketed, editors are intimidated, university presses and distributors are threatened, university presidents are blackmailed, local and national candidates are browbeaten and smeared, meetings are cancelled and venues are pressured, faculty are fired or denied promotion, corporations are blacklisted, union pension funds are raided, theater performances and concerts are cancelled. And the list of repressive actions taken by these authoritarian Zionist organizations at the national and local levels runs on, arousing fear among some, anger among many more and a slowly burning resentment and growing awareness among the silent majority.

    …The scope, depth and centralized structure of the Zionist Power Configuration far exceed anything, which can be properly conceived of as a ‘lobby’. In that sense Mearsheimer and Walt in the study of the Israel Lobby underestimate the power and political influence of the pro-Israeli forces. Secondly the measure of the ZPC power must take account of several factors. These include its direct and indirect power. ZPC power is exercised directly on political, academic and cultural decision makers to make sure their policies back pro-Israel, pro-Zionist interests. An even more direct expression of power is when Zionists occupy top decision-making positions and make policies on behalf of Israeli military and economic interests. Elliot Abrams, President Bush’s key Middle East advisor on the National Security Council is one of many examples as is the Director of Homeland Security, Michael Chertoff, who allocates over three-quarters of available funds for the ‘security’ of private Jewish organizations.

    Equally formidable is the ZPC exercise of indirect power through several mechanisms.

    One is by parleying influence over a small group of Congressmen into a large majority. For example, AIPAC wrote up the bill, presented by Senator Lieberman and co-signed by Senator Kyl, labeling the Iranian Revolutionary Guards as ‘terrorists’, which paves the way for Bush to launch an attack. It was passed by 80% of Congress.

    Cumulative power is the convergence of different sectors of the ZPC on a single issue. For example, pro-Israel writers and Jewish leaders from all major organizations and spheres of its media from Left to far Right, joined to denounce Mearsheimer and Walt’s essay and subsequent book, most resorting to either ad hominem attacks (‘anti-Semites’) or illogical and convoluted arguments ignoring the empirical data.

    … The ZPC has multiple resources that are mutually re-enforcing in both the private, and public spheres. Large-scale, long-term party and electoral financing buy Congressional influence. This in turn increases the power of the large minority of Zionist Congressmen in gaining control over party nominations and committee assignments in Congress. This in turn feeds back into greater influence for the ZPC in shaping US-Middle East foreign policy and facilitating access of pro-Israeli writers to the Op-Ed pages of the major dailies, weeklies and other branches of the corporate media….

    Israel Lobby or ‘Zionist Power Configuration’?

    Mearsheimer and Walt describe the pro-Israel power configuration as a ‘lobby, just like any other US lobby’, a ‘loose collection of individuals and groups’ outside of government, acting on behalf of Israel. Nothing could be further from the truth. The power of Israel in the United States is manifested through a multiplicity of highly organized, well financed and centrally directed structures throughout the United States. The ZPC include several score political action committees with innocuous names, at least a dozen propaganda mills (‘think tanks’) employing scores of former highly connected top policymakers mostly in Washington and the East Coast, and the 52 major American Jewish Organizations grouped under the umbrella listing ‘Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations’ (CPMAJO). AIPAC and other national organizations (ADL, AJC etc ) are important influences at the national Executive-Congressional lobbying levels. But equally or even more important in censoring and purging critics, controlling local media and shaping opinion throughout cities, towns and villages are the local Jewish community federations … [etc as quoted above]

    … The local Zionist power structure organizes successful campaigns forcing state pension funds to purchase billions of dollars in underperforming Israel state bonds and to disinvest in companies engaged in economic transactions with Israel’s self-described ‘state terrorists adversaries’. It is the Jewish based pro-Israel student organizations which spy on US professors, who may or may not be critical of Israel and smear them in local and national newsletters and pressure administrations to fire them. …. The Zionist octopus has extended its tentacles far beyond the traditional centers of big city power and national politics, reaching into remote towns and cultural spheres. …

    Centralized structures – coordinated policy, targets, quotas, fund raising, large-scale special campaigns, black lists (‘anti-Semites’ and ‘self-hating Jews’), and networks all are integral parts of the ZPC. Mearsheimer and Walt have failed to analyze the organizational relations between the head office, regional staff and local organizations of the major pro-Israel Jewish organizations and how quickly they can be mobilized to stigmatize, censor or support a given speaker, activity or fund raiser in favor of Israeli interests.

    … The recent Congressional Hearings of a blue ribbon committee, which finally got around to investigating the Israeli military attack on the USS Liberty (after 40 years of successfully preventing an official investigation through the pressure of the Israel lobby) found Israel guilty of the deliberate killing and maiming of over 100 US service personnel. Its explosive findings, published in the Congressional Record, never appeared in the print and broadcast media…

    • alpha unit

      I don’t think any group of people should be immune to criticism. I don’t think any nation should be immune to criticism either.

      But when you read all this stuff about the overwhelming reach and control of Zionists, the Jews, etc., there aren’t that many ways to respond to it. Do you devote a considerable portion of your life railing against it? If the Zionists control Congress, what good is it to “write to your Congressman” (a joke anyway)?

      If they control the media, what possible hearing can your complaint get there?

      What is the sane way to deal with it?

    • Mort Goldman

      LS: Those are legitimate complaints, but I don’t see how they point to the unique Jewish Evil Gene. I understand that you’re prob. not implying that it is, but it’s certainly the implicit or explicit position of most WNs. Secondly, those aren’t even really *their* complaints, except insofar as they latch onto anything that makes the Jews look bad. I’ve never seen a WN get truly excited about the Palestinians. OTOH, bring up How The Evil Jews Manipulated the Stupid Nigras, and they’ll talk about it all day. Or how Jews are Evil Reptilian Bankers From Hell. They *love* that one. Or how Jews are behind Communism, except on odd numbered days when they’re behind Capitalism. You get the point. Again, I don’t know if they’re clinically mentally ill, but it makes my life easier to assume that they are, because assuming that they’re rational will make *me* insane. That is all.

  15. Jack

    tulio, I don’t know whether or not the NAACP was financed by Jewish money during the CR movement. I was talking about what has been going on with the NAACP and the Congressional Black Caucus in the last 20 years. The outside money makes them ineffectual in the black community. This is almost 2010. If the black community can’t even support a group like the NAACP, how organized and effective the CR movement would be in the 60s without Jewish help?

    I learned a lot from Jewish writers about Jewish involvement in the CR movement. My conclusion wasn’t that Blacks were dumb. My conclusion was that Jews were too good at what they did. Blacks simply didn’t have the experience, expertise and money to combat the White establishment alone.

    Given the fact that Blacks historically didn’t have the same access as Jews did, that Blacks or Asians or other minorities weren’t as good as Jews in many areas is understandable. For example, Jews had played very important roles in organizing labor unions way before the CR movement. Another example, the United States, in the person of President Truman, recognized the provisional Jewish government on the same day that the Provisional Government of Israel proclaimed the new State of Israel. The reason? The Jewish leaders lobbied Truman on behalf of Israel. The Time magazine and numerous books have written about it. It would be unimaginable that other minority groups would have that kind of access back in 1948.

    Would Blacks be able to do it without Jewish influence? Maybe. I certainly would think the struggle would be a lot longer and tougher.

    • tulio

      If the black community can’t even support a group like the NAACP, how organized and effective the CR movement would be in the 60s without Jewish help?

      Like I said, these days, most blacks couldn’t care less about the NAACP. I’ve never met a black in my life who said he or she was a member or had any plans on joining. It has mostly done its job and its time has come and gone. Racism still exists in America no doubt, but it’s not the kind of racism you can fight with more laws or legislation. It’s more in cultural attitudes and social behaviors.

    • Jack

      The Jewish community contributed greatly to the NAACP’s founding and continued financing. Jewish historian Howard Sachar writes in his book A History of Jews in America of how, “In 1914, Professor Emeritus Joel Spingarn of Columbia University became chairman of the NAACP and recruited for its board such Jewish leaders as Jacob Schiff, Jacob Billikopf, and Rabbi Stephen Wise.”[13] Early Jewish-American co-founders included Julius Rosenwald, Lillian Wald, Rabbi Emil G. Hirsch and Wise. It did not elect a black president until 1975

      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Association_for_the_Advancement_of_Colored_People

      Is there even a black organization that has enough clout to draw the attention of a congressman? You need political power to fight racism and social injustice, you need political power to fight poverty, you need political power to make the changes within, to help your own people, etc.

  16. Jack

    tulio, Black households have had lower homeownership rates than the general populace since 1950. http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/housing/census/historic/ownrate.html That and along with statistics on education, income and crime rate, it is safe to say that blacks are outcompeted by every other groups. (excluding Native Americans)

    • tulio

      Jack, you’re not saying anything I don’t know. What I said is that statistics aren’t showing that blacks are in a downward spiral. Black problems don’t seem to be getting worse. You are saying that blacks aren’t doing as well as other groups. That’s a non-sequitor.

    • Jack

      I was just echoing Robert’s point that since the Blacks are doing so bad, how could they be a threat to the people on top? It seems to me that the Civil Right movement has done more for other minority group than for the Blacks.

    • tulio

      I’m comparing where blacks are now, to where they were before the civil rights movement. Not comparing blacks to other groups. Btw, Hispanics aren’t doing that much better better than blacks when looking at the data. Just a little bit, but certainly not by leaps and bounds, such as Asians.

  17. Olive

    @Mort Goldman
    Neo nazis practically worship the Palestinians.

  18. whodareswings

    “Muslims are just out and out dangerous, and they’ve proven this many times. Scary people.

    Blacks? Give it up.”

    This is just ridiculous. When was the last time a Muslim invaded your personal space on a public sidewalk with a crack addled show of sullen foul mouthed braggadocio just because you didn’t give her the quarter she demanded?

  19. Unlce Milton

    To Tulio:

    Let’s not forget that the civil rights movement began as a grassroots movement. It has it’s origins in black churches, black barbershops and the streets of small towns in the south. It wasn’t Jews that came along with this plan to organize blacks, tell them what to do, and what to say and when to say it. Rosa Parks didn’t have a Jew tell her what to do on that faithful day that she stood up to a white man.

    No I doubt a Jew directly told Rosa Parks to not stand up but she did work for the NAACP (founded by White Gentiles, Jews, and Blacks) for over 10 years before her protest and attended the (Founded by White Gentiles..) Highlander Folk School.

    “Mr. Parks was an early activist in the effort to free the “Scottsboro Boys,” a celebrated case in the 1930’s. Together, Raymond and Rosa worked in the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP’s) programs. He was an active member and she served as secretary and later youth leader of the local branch. At the time of her arrest, she was preparing for a major youth conference.”

    http://www.rosaparks.org/bio.html

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Highlander_Research_and_Education_Center

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myles_Horton

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naacp

    “The NAACP was incorporated a year later in 1911. The association’s charter delineated its mission:

    To promote equality of rights and to eradicate caste or race prejudice among the citizens of the United States; to advance the interest of colored citizens; to secure for them impartial suffrage; and to increase their opportunities for securing justice in the courts, education for the children, employment according to their ability and complete equality before law.

    The conference resulted in a more influential and diverse organization, where the leadership was predominantly white and heavily Jewish American. In fact, at its founding, the NAACP had only one African American on its executive board, Du Bois himself. It did not elect a black president until 1975, although executive directors had been African American. The Jewish community contributed greatly to the NAACP’s founding and continued financing. Jewish historian Howard Sachar writes in his book A History of Jews in America of how, “In 1914, Professor Emeritus Joel Spingarn of Columbia University became chairman of the NAACP and recruited for its board such Jewish leaders as Jacob Schiff, Jacob Billikopf, and Rabbi Stephen Wise.”[13] Early Jewish-American co-founders included Julius Rosenwald, Lillian Wald, Rabbi Emil G. Hirsch and Wise.

    According to Pbs.org “Over the years Jews have also expressed empathy (capability to share and understand another’s emotion and feelings) with the plight of Blacks. In the early 1900s, Jewish newspapers drew parallels between the Black movement out of the South and the Jews’ escape from Egypt, pointing out that both Blacks and Jews lived in ghettos, and calling anti-Black riots in the South “pogroms”. Stressing the similarities rather than the differences between the Jewish and Black experience in America, Jewish leaders emphasized the idea that both groups would benefit the more America moved toward a society of merit, free of religious, ethnic and racial restrictions.”[14] Pbs.org further states, “The American Jewish Committee, the American Jewish Congress, and the Anti-Defamation League were central to the campaign against racial prejudice. Jews made substantial financial contributions to many civil rights organizations, including the NAACP, the Urban League, the Congress of Racial Equality, and the Student Non-Violent Coordinating Committee. About 50 percent of the civil rights attorneys in the South during the 1960s were Jews, as were over 50 percent of the Whites who went to Mississippi in 1964 to challenge Jim Crow Laws.”[14]

    Du Bois continued to play a pivotal role in the organization and served as editor of the association’s magazine, The Crisis, which had a circulation of over 30,000.

    Moorfield Storey, who was white, was the president of the NAACP from its founding to 1915. Storey was a long-time classical liberal and Grover Cleveland Democrat who advocated laissez-faire free markets, the gold standard, and anti-imperialism. Storey consistently and aggressively championed civil rights, not only for blacks but also for Native Americans and immigrants (he opposed immigration restrictions).”

    I read that the NAACP was looking for someone to defer the Whites only rule and thought they had someone before Ms. Parks but backed away because the woman in question had a police record. (Whereas Ms. Parks had a spotless. record…)

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