More Race in Latin America

Repost from the old site.

Following on the heels of a couple of posts on the racial composition of Hispanics and Latin America in general, let us look a little further into the issue.

First of all, let us look at the racial breakdown of Puerto Ricans. Genetic studies of Puerto Ricans have shown that they are on average 53.3% White (Spaniard), 29.1% Black, and 17.6% Amerindian, or, to put it another way, those numbers reflect their total genetic base.

So you can see that Puerto Ricans are very much mixed-race people, but on the other hand, they are mostly White, or at least much more White than Black or Amerindian. The predominance of White over Amerindian and/or Black genes is common in Latin America.

Rather than being a continent primarily of Amerindians or Blacks, the story of Latin America is one of mestizaje, the marriage of two great races – the White European and the Amerindian. In many cases, especially around the Caribbean, there are varying degrees of Black too, but they do not tend to predominate.

This sort of Black – Amerindian – White mixed race phenomenon is actually pretty common in and around the Caribbean. This is the predominant phenotype in Venezuela (Hugo Chavez is a good example), Panama and Brazil, and is also common in Cuba and Colombia. It is also common along the Caribbean coasts of Mexico, British Honduras, Honduras, Costa Rica and Nicaragua.

Studies of race in Brazil has produced some interesting results.

For one thing, the concept of “White” in Brazil, and probably in Latin America in general, is not the same as in the US. Latin America is a mixed-race continent. White often means simply lighter-skinned than other folks. The concept of social race is also common, whereby a Black man with money becomes White simply by acquiring cash, education and upper class status.

In Brazil, a majority of the population refers to themselves as White, but as I said, that does not mean the same thing as in the US. Towards the southern end of Brazil, you do have some American-style relatively pure Whites.

A study of self-identified Whites in Rio Grande do Sul did find one group that was almost 100% Caucasian – they were mostly descendants of Italian immigrants. But another group of self-identified Whites had 18% Indian and 8% Black genes, all on the mother’s side. Therefore, they were 87% White, 9% Amerindian and 4% Black.

It is common in Latin America for non-White genes to be on the mother’s side, reflecting the common practice of European males taking Black or Indian spouses.

Whites in Brazil are not necessarily White in an American sense.

I spent a lot of time at One Drop Rule going over many studies of race in Latin America.

The results are variable and confusing, but one thing became clear. Race is not as clear-cut a category in Latin America as in the US. Latin American Whites typically had more Amerindian or Black blood than US Whites. Even Amerindians were rarely pure, at least in Mexico. However, Amerindians from Oaxaca, Chiapas, Guatemala and the Andes of Peru, Ecuador and Bolivia are probably pure Indian or close to it.

In one study, a Mexican Indian tribe was significantly mixed in with White at ~20% or so. Keep in mind that someone who is 80% Indian will look very Indian. We have a local Indian tribe where I live, and there is one full-blood left out of 800 Indians. Yet many of those who are a little mixed look very Indian.

With a mulatto President, mass immigration from Latin America, and increasing racial intermarriage, the story of the continent – mestizaje, and to a lesser extent, mulattoization, figures to be increasingly America’s story too in coming decades. As always, it promises to be interesting.

References

Marrero, AR, Das Neves Leite, FOP, De Almeida Carvalho, B, Peres, LM, Kommers, TC, Da Cruz, IM, Salzano, FM, Ruiz-Linares, A, Da Silva Júnior, WA, Bortolini, MC. 2005. Heterogeneity of the Genome Ancestry of Individuals Classified As White in the State Of Rio Grande Do Sul, Brazil. Am J Hum Biol. (4): 496-506.

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25 Comments

Filed under Reposts From The Old Site

25 responses to “More Race in Latin America

  1. bongoparty5

    White in Latin America means “light skinned mestizo.” In America it means someone of 100% European descent in most cases, and sometimes limited to a “Germanic”/northern European person. The “Latin America” section of Stormfront for instance is really full of Mestizos, and they get mad when you point it out.

    • LOL That is totally incorect. Excuse me but have you ever been to latin america? I can bet my bucks that you havn,t.. So why make such a stupid claim that light skin=white in “latin america”? So not ture very far from the truth thats is just crazy. Its like saying dark skin= black which is also not true hahaha come on man. I realize now that im dealing with a race motivated website i think im lost lol. The concept of race has also been debunked but im not even get into that quite yet

  2. Obvious

    “I spent a lot of time at One Drop Rule going over many studies of race in Latin America.”

    The one drop rule, while seemingly absurd, exists for a reason – if you add a single drop of black paint to a can of white paint, that paint is not white any longer.

    Understand?

  3. I think that is pretty much true, bp. I guess there are some pure Whites in Latin America (and some are quick to emphasize that they are 100% pure Spaniard without one drop of that horrible evil Indian blood in them, in the course of my research, I found that a lot of the “Whites” in Latin America, even in places like Mexico or Brazil, were really mixed to some light degree. The Indian blood is often not visible, or only a little, so they pretty much look White, but you are correct that they are not White in the same way that say US Whites are.

    Latin America has been one gigantic race mixing orgy for 500 years or so, and not too many have emerged from it unscathed.

  4. G-Man

    White is more of a descriptor in Latin America. In the U.S. it represents a distinct allegedly pure racial group; or at least a group that is free of any sub-Saharan African ancestry.

    Depending on where you go in Latin America, mentioning that a white person may have some African ancestry isn’t that devastating. In the U.S. it would be for many white people.

  5. Jas

    I agree G-Man,

    Many Latin Americans take a bit more pride in their overall ancestry,
    being mixed to some degree makes them appear to be more exotic and physically fluent, having differences in their hair grade, their skin tone, their fuller bodies, lips, rear-end, curves, etc, many white women now crave fuller lips, and roundness, etc

  6. I agree with Jas that White women are now trying to look like Black women. They are getting lip injections to have full lips, they would round butts and big tits. The exotic look is coming to be seen as the most beautiful of all in parts of urban metrosexual America.

    I don’t know much about Latin Americans and their racial pride thing. Race is a very sensitive subject with Mexicans and you bring it up and you just get blank stares. A large number of Hispanics around do not even know what their racial heritage is. If you tell them that Hispanic is a mix between White and Indian, they give you a blank stare or insist that you are wrong. A lot of the ones around here are into Indian fetish and an anti-White thing. I had one light-skinned Hispanic get upset when I suggested he was 70-80% White. That was a big insult to him. He was sure he was pure Mexican Indian.

    Mexicans in the know are not really in denial about their Indian blood. It’s more that the subject is sort of taboo. White blood, Indian blood, all of that – taboo subject. However, with the Whiter and more intelligent Hispanics, they are often quite eager to tell you that that are White or pure White and that their ancestry comes from Spain. I have had a few of them insist to me that they actually are pure White and have traced their ancestry back to prove it. Some of the pure Whites apparently guard their racial lines carefully, especially the ones who have $.

    The more middle class types with a lot of Indian are more defensive about it and show less pride in it than the more White types (they get angry if you bring it up and try to shut down the conversation). The more Indian they have in them, the more they are into the Reconquista/La Raza mindset too

    But Whites, especially White men from Spain, have been marrying Indians and Mestizos all down through Mexican history. There was still quite a bit of it going as of the late 1800’s, and at this time there were still a lot of Spaniards coming over from Spain to settle in Mexico.

    There are also other strains in the Mexican stew, including quite a bit of French, and some Arab (Palestinian or Lebanese), Jew, German, Chinese, Filipino.

    That place is an insane human casserole. You have no idea. The mixing has been so immense that the whole subject of race has been more or less elided and I guess if anything exists anymore, it might be the “colorism” that James describes in Brazil. There is some tendency of males to prefer a lighter skinned Mestizo female, but it’s not vast preference.

    At the lower end of the income spectrum here you see Mexicans of all shades and phenotypes mating up. Very lightskinned guys who look as White as I do with dark Mestizas, light women with darker men, dark skinned folks with very Caucasian features, light skinned folks with very Indian features, on and on. At the lower end, I’m not sure people even care about color or race that much anymore.

  7. For G-Man, I’m not too sure that most Mexicans, Salvadorans or Argentines would be happy to learn that they have Black in them. Salvadorans especially can be insanely anti-Black. If you get into Brazilians, Cubans, Colombians, Venezuelans and Panamanians, they’re probably a lot cooler about it, because there is more Black in the gene pool.

    • G-Man

      That’s why I mentioned that it depends on where the Latino/Hispanic is from and how long they’ve been residing in the U.S.

      Mexicans and Chicanos are largely mestizos, and the mention of any African ancestry, which is present in their makeup, may alarm them, especially if they’ve spent significant time in the U.S.

      Argentines are predominantly European, but even in Argentina (specifically Buenos Aires), there was an Afro-Argentine population. They’ve been pretty much absorbed into the population, so there might be some very European-looking Argentines with substantial sub-Saharan African ancestry.

    • Hi G-man. Mexicans are ~5% Black or thereabouts, and it is quite evenly distributed in the population. In general, you cannot see it in the phenotype. Argentines are 3% Black. I am not sure how that is distributed, probably pretty evenly once again.

    • Hi, please google, the mestizo concept: a product of european imperialism. May i get a response of your reaction?

      • Yes I do not agree with Mixteca/Azteca Aztlan theory. Crazy stuff.

        • Me nether and im mexican im not from california but you have to understand the majority of us mexicans can care less about this aztlan theory. We dnt care we all ready know california arizona san jose san fransisco ect are spanish named cities the fact the region used to be part of mexico is enough for us we dont want it to be mexico that is stupid. Us citizens know who we are and we are not mestizos or half whites dont be ignorant we are natives because of our cultures/traditions in which has mostly dominate indigenous roots. I seen ypur other articals were you called one a spic burrito eater not cool man. You cant be taken seriously for stuff like that. Jealousy hate and envious gets you know where in life. Respect indigenous ppl of all cultures and faces. Did you read the artical? What are your thoughts

        • No, I never read it.

          If you don’t respect me on here, I will have to ban you. Ok?

  8. Omar E. Vega

    What is funny it is that the U.S. has a lot more Black genetics, in proportion, than most Latin American countries.

    White childrens in the U.S. less than 5 years old are less than 50% of the children population!

    With all those facts, how come “gringos” continue to be so racist and claiming a missing white purity?

    Don’t they see they are ruled by a mulatto?

    Time to wake up, “gringos”

    Omar Vega,
    Chilean

  9. Omar, here in California, we Whites are becoming “Mestiziced”. The Mexicans have been here for a very long time (many have been here longer than many Whites) and over 100 years or so, many Whites have married Mexicans, 1/2 Mexicans, etc. There are now many kids coming up who are 1/2 Mexican, 1/4 Mexican, etc. Obviously this is a process of Mestizization similar to what has occurred over 500 years in Latin America. The Classic Chilean Mestizo – about 80% – accounts for quite a few people here in California these days. This is approximately the makeup of many of the Mexican-Americans too. So here in this state we are heading towards Chileization. I suppose it’s better than Brazilianization.

  10. Omar E. Vega

    Let’s say you will end up “looking” somehow closer to Chileans. I remembered when I lived in Saskatchewan, Canada, that I confussed some Meti people for Chileans and tried to speak to them in Spanish… that was a lot of fun; for them, of course.

    Chilean nationality was formed long time ago, though, and was the result of the violent crash between Spanish soldiers and violent natives that never gave up. Our country identity was formed in the middle of major dissasters (earthqueakes, tsunamis, social crisis, revolutions) and several wars against our “brother” countries that surround us. It was also shaped by the landscape and by our poets that sing in Spanish and Mapudungun.

    Perhaps 200 years from now the genetics and identity of California get stable at last. Who nows, perhaps then we could see how close our peoples are.

    The U.S. in general, though, seem to head to something more like Brazil rather than to Hispanic America or Chile. A triracial society or perhaps even more diverse than that. Interesting process.

    Regards.

    Omar E. Vega
    Chilean

  11. I would very much prefer to end up genetically like Chile or Argentina than like Brazil. Brazil seems like an unholy mess.

    We have a lot Mesoamericans around here, mostly Mexicans, some Central Americans, only a few South Americans. I can’t help but think what a handsome race this is. I don’t know about the pure Indians. A few of the Indian women are really really beautiful, but most of them are just not for me. I don’t know what the mix is around here, but a lot of these Mesoamericans are 10-40% Indian and the rest White. I’m not even sure what a 50-50 White-Indian Mestizo would look like. Even some of the more Indian type mixes can be quite beautiful in a very different way. The young Hispanic females here often look great from teenage up to around 30 or so. They look best from teenage – 22 or so. After that, they start putting on some weight and I’m not really into that. But definitely at their peak in youth, this is a gloriously handsome race of humans. Somehow the combination of Iberian and Indian works out quite well. The pure of either race can be harsh, but the Mestiza often seems to be toned down in the harsher features of either race and only the best qualities of both races come out.

    As you can tell, I am a big fan of race mixing (in some combinations anyway) and Latinas! Also, Latinas are much more pleasant than your usual gringa around here. They are very feminine and submissive and like masculine men. She’s a woman and you’re a man. They have not yet been ruined by feminism. The Latina can be fiery with rage, but it’s not ball-breaking or castrating. Her rage comes from a feminine place. Sexist as the culture is, I much prefer to these White ultrabitches.

    • Tony

      I like that..”rage comes from a feminine place”..I am not sure what you are talking about but Megan Fox looks pretty hot to me, She must be 1/4 Indian. I too like my woman to be feminine,though not submissive. By the way there are plenty of American white women who are like that.You just got to scratch the surface a little bit.

  12. Omar E. Vega

    Hello:

    First thing to know about Amerindian peoples is that not all groups look the same. Even in prehispanic times there were very different “races” of Amerindians all over the Americas. Some natives people were small, other very tall. Some natives were dark other light, some have prognatism others standar faces, some thick lips other thin, etc. In short, some looked sort of Caucasian or East Indians and other like East Asians.

    How do I know? We have mummies, and also quite a lot of arts.

    Now, you very well know not all Europeans look the same either. An Albanian looks quite different from a Dutch, or a Portuguese from an Hungarian. Some Europeans are more Germanics, others more Arab or African looking, and even others resemble Mongolians.

    So, knowing that, it is very clear there aren’t two mestizo groups that are going to look the same. If you mix a gracil people like the ancient Fuegins with Nordic you will get a very different looking people to a mixture between Mayan and Portuguese. Both being technically mestizo.

    This is so much true that in Latin America we can -with certain degree of precision- know the country of origin of people, just by observing them. All mixtures are slightly different in proportion and in the aspect of the original ancestors.

    In Chile we believe we were lucky

    This comment was just to satisfy the curiosity of Americans.

    Regards,

    Omar

  13. Omar E. Vega

    By the way, I forget to mention that white americans have always had a small degree of mestizaje as well. Studies have shown White Americans are 6% Amerindians. In countries like Argentina or Uruguay that percentage goes up to 20%.
    The reason the U.S. had less admixture I believe it is obvious: the density of population in North America was low, given that Amerindians have a nomadic lifestyle there. However, the fur trade left its mark; that’s for sure.
    Pochahontas wasn’t the only case.

    Omar

  14. Source, please google the mestizo concept. Dna tells you very little. Just cause one has euro blood does not make him white look at george lopez. Most spaniards are not even white them selves but mestizos The spaniards and southern europeans are mestizos them selves, italians are mestizos ect if you really think about it were all mestizos(mixed). there are multipul types of dna test what you are bringing up is y-chromosome dna paternal bloodline which makes since the spaniards did rape(not married) our indigenous females. But you provide no links to those claims? But research our mtdna maternal bloodline and you will find out a lot of us are 80% native. Google the mestizo concept a product of european imperialism and im sure it would probably motivate you to ether edit apologize or delete your racist post. Maybe not but then again you could just be another racist or envious person so there is no chance but if your legit then you shouldd but i guess we,ll find out what type of person you are

  15. Dont ban me please i respect you but i have to be honest as well. I think you have some sort of hatred against mexicans Im pretty sure you did read the artical you just dont want to admit it? Please my friend look it up its some imporant stuff you need to know. It totally debunks all your posts and exposes your claims as racist views. Dont ban me friend can we please have a civil debate? Im not calling you a racist im trying to protect you from telling that they come out to be racist ppl make mistakes its ok

    • Belief in something called mestizo or mestizism is not racist. That’s all there is to it.

      I already know what the article says, and it’s nonsense. Mexico is not an Indian society, and saying it is a mixed White-Indian society (mestizism) is not a reactionary, racist, colonialist or imperialist thing to say.

      I don’t even want to read it to be honest. I’ve already read enough stuff like that.

      I don’t have any hatred against Mexicans or at least I don’t want to have any, let’s put it that way. Racist hatred seems wrong to me.

      You are not 80% native either. Even many of the Indians are ~20% White. The Mexicans in the US for a long time were 70% White, then 60% White and now they are 50-50 White-Indian.

      The whole Mexico is 80% native thing is nonsense.

      • Its not nonsense mexico is over 80% indigenous decent indio/mestizos should account for the native ancestry as they are rooted to the indignouse customs and traditions. Compare us mexicnas to dominicans. They say the DR about 90% BLACK it that true? They are just as mixed as we are but why could they embrace there african roots as number one but we cant? Next to the DR is hati and they are straight up black african they are the souther mexicans/guatamalens of mexico compare to central noth mexico which is like the DR of mexico. Cubans puerto ricans brazilians they are all black african/mulatto mixed no matter how mixed they still claim their african roots tho some domt becuase of racism issues in their country, but they still get called out by there own watch the documenteries on youtube do some research. I can assure you the artical is NOT nonsense its legit i can honestly swear to god and tell you that you have never read an artical like this one. Mexica movement la raza mecha whatever thise fags talk about have nothing to do with this artical which is pro indian not mexican but for all natives ppls of the so called americas. It just focuses on mexicans cause we are one of the most misrepresented.

        and how do you know if im not 80% indigenous? What gives you the idea? Not saying that i am but i know that my maternal bloodline is over the limit of 80% but like i said i can be 12% native and still be proud as long as i have the culture still attatched and blood the foods the dialects the acknoledgment it domt matter what percemtage i am.

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