Our Common Australoid Past

Khan1983 writes:

I have read somewhere that Southeast Asian and North Eurasian split around 50,000 years ago while Caucasian and Northeast Asian split around 30,000 years ago. By genetic, would this mean that Mongoloid phenotype is just a convergent evolution of both Northeast Asian and some Southeast Asian (S. Chinese & Vietnamese)?

I doubt if the figure for Southeast Asian and North Eurasian splitting at 50,000 YBP is correct. The Asian race began in northern Vietnam 51,000 YBP. But who did they split off from? Was this the date of the SE Asian-North Eurasian split? I do not think anyone knows what those people looked like but skulls from 25,000 YBP in Thailand look like Aborigines and skulls from Vietnam 22,000 YBP look Melanesian. Also skulls from India 25,000 YBP look like Aborigines.

And about these elusive North Eurasian people, lost in the mists of time – could the very mysterious Caucasoid-like Chukchi and Ainu be all that remains?

Caucasian and Northeast Asian could not have split off that late. Cavalli-Sforza says that Caucasian split off in part from Northeast Asian 42,000 YBP. We do not know exactly what those people looked like, but a skull from 7,000 years after the creation of the Caucasian race from southern Russia has been characterized as Australoid.

So from 22,000-35,000 YBP in a belt from Caucasus – India – Thailand – Vietnam, all humans were apparently Australoids.

It is starting to look like Australoid types were the basic human type outside of Africa for a very long time, possibly until just recently.

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Possible Human Phenotypes As a Limited Subset at Any Point in Time

tangybutthole writes:

Robert why do you say that the modern races are what the humans phenotype eventually ends at? I feel if we went back to neanderthal times someone would say ” this is where all possible phenotype point to”. Don’t you think it’s possible that another phenotype could arise or would that make it a new species at that point?

All of the recent races seem to be crashing down into a limited subset of possible of phenotypes.

Perhaps at any given time in evolution, only a limited subset of all possible phenotypes are available. That is why “Neandertal” is not one of the possible human phenotypes available today, though it was long ago.

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OCD-Psychosis Borderline Cases

Lynn writes:

I’m really struggling with schiz-related OCD, and I know that for a fact. However, what I’m not sure about is whether I have schizophrenia (or maybe schizotypal personality) as well… or if it’s just the OCD, or if I might even also have factitious disorder imitating schizophrenia.

So, about me:

I first noticed OCD symptoms in myself when I was about 14, though it may have been subclinical then. It took the forms of “wanting to be a good person”, order/symmetry/pattern stuff, and the occasional vague “I need to do X or Y will go wrong somehow”. As I got older the order and symmetry faded somewhat and the “good person” got bad–for example, fears of violence to the point of feeling weapons in my hands and needing to rub them against surfaces to make sure nothing was actually there.

This later came to include an obsession with schizophrenia, but not of the “I’m afraid I have it” sort–rather, I wanted to prove I had it because that would provide an explanation for certain things wrong with me, taking the blame off of me, and subsequently I realised I could be (likely was) faking symptoms and started to obsessively examine if all my so-called symptoms were legitimate. I could be exaggerating, or outright fabricating.

On the other hand, I was the star pupil in my high school for the first two and a half years. All my teachers loved me. Then in the second semester of my junior year, I started skipping classes and forgetting assignments, gradually stopped bathing, started getting comments (sometimes concerned, sometimes angry) about how I never paid attention in class and my writing had gone from excellent to a mess of unnecessary words and long tangents…

Other students started to call me “weird” and avoid me, and those who were my friends either cut contact or pointed out as nicely as possible that my social and conversational skills were terrible and it made me really difficult to deal with. In response to all of this, I thought “eh, whatever, I don’t really care about school or friends anyway”, eventually dropped most of my classes, graduated early, and spent the next few years locked in my bedroom playing online games and watching anime.

I had a couple friends online, however, and the opportunity came to move out and stay with one of them when I was 21. I lived with her and her girlfriend (all three of us were bisexual) for a few weeks, but three things came up in that time.

First, my attention span and general awareness was next to none, and sometimes it was to the point that I would just stare at people really confused when they spoke to me, totally unable to make sense of their words.

Second, my roommates told me a few times that things I remembered them saying to me had never been said.

Third, I was convinced that the other girl was just trying to use me to pay the rent, had no intention of accommodating me as a proper roommate, and was taking incriminating pictures of me to show the police to kick me out. She did actually call the police, however, so I was probably right. She hated me. Bad. I did start to think I might be reaching a little when I accused her of stealing money out of my wallet, and I now think I was probably wrong on that, however.

I ended up moving back in with my family, and a couple months later the idea that I might have schizophrenia first crossed my mind. I thought about it off and on for months, but it seemed like a huge stretch, so I shelved it eventually.

Over the next year I would start seeing shadow bugs (like the typical shadow people, but the size of and moving like bugs), thinking people were breaking into my window at night… Move out again, fear that people were going to kidnap or rape me, that they were following me and planning to mug me, see whole crowds of people just coldly stare at me on the streets for several seconds…

And then over the next year after that, I’d move back with my family (evicted this time, for being a bad roommate–spending all day lying in bed and never doing chores), start noticing my hands looked strange, occasionally hear a voice repeating my thoughts aloud, and then…

And then my OCD landed on the subject of schizophrenia when researching why I was so lazy, and it was sort of like a million bells went off at once saying “YES HELLO PLEASE NOTICE ME, YOU HAVE STRUCK GOLD” …And then I shrugged it off again after a couple months of intense obsession.

And started thinking people I met online were actually people I already knew in the past, but using different names and ages and such… They acted so similar though! And then the obsession would hit again.

So basically, right now I’m sort of thinking I’m an immortal nonhuman being who reincarnated into this plane and various others of my kind are active here and occasionally contact me but usually just monitor me from a distance while doing their own things with human experiments and such.

But then there are like three voices (not actual voices lol) in my head saying “you are delusional”, “you are faking being delusional”, and “you are just being OCD, calm down” and I don’t know which to believe and the more I think and research the more distressed I get.

So, um… What do you think? (please don’t say “e-mail me”!)

This comment appeared on one of my articles, so I will publish it while keeping anything about the person’s identity confidential as is proper.

There is clearly a psychotic process going on here that looks very much like classic schizophrenia. Then we also have some very classic OCD going on at the same time. The OCD came on at age 14, and the schizophrenia came on 2.5 years later at age 16. It has long been known that OCD sometimes appears as the leading edge of schizophrenia. Schizophrenia often occurs ~2 years after the onset of the OCD, and the schizophrenia might have some of the same OCD symptoms, now magnified to psychotic level.

I am aware of several cases of OCD preceding schizophrenia. In two cases, the OCD appeared quite early around age 11-12 and was extremely severe during high school years to the point where they were nearly disabled. The schizophrenia then appeared at the classic age of 19-20.

In another case, OCD appeared at age 19 and then schizophrenia occurred at the classic age of 23.

This data has been interpreted to show that OCD is a risk factor for schizophrenia. This interpretation is false. First of all, most if not all people with schizophrenia are now known to have been ill from a very early age, possibly form birth. The schizophrenia is simply subclinical until the real hard symptoms hit often in late adolescence to early adulthood. If schizophrenics have had the illness since birth, OCD cannot possibly be a risk factor for schizophrenia as OCD appears later in life, often in late childhood to adolescence.

The question then is whether OCD is a risk factor the triggering of full schizophrenic symptoms in someone with subclinical schizophrenia since birth. This is uncertain, but it is probably not the case. Probably the stress of OCD is not a risk factor for triggering full blown schizophrenia either, as in the cases above, full blown OCD occurred for 2, 4, and 7-9 years before the onset of full schizophrenia. OCD is a very stressful illness. If the stress of OCD triggered schizophrenia, it would trigger it very soon after the OCD onset, not 2-9 years later. Stress as a trigger for schizophrenia is typically a serious stress where the schizophrenia occurs soon after the stress, not years later like some sort of time bomb.

In recent years, there has been discussion of something called schizo-obsessive disorder. These are cases of OCD and schizophrenia in the same person where the OCD is impacting the schizophrenia. Often these people retain more insight into their delusional processes than typical schizophrenics as OCD is a disorder of doubt whereby schizophrenic is a disorder of knowing. So the OCD can lead to better reality testing where the factor of doubt may be introduced into delusional material.

Schizo-obsessive disorder is probably just OCD and schizophrenia occurring in the same individual with different onsets for each illness. Each illness is discrete and neither one was causative or the other, yet both illnesses are impacting each other probably via an endless feedback loop whereby they feed into each other like a dog chasing its tail and sometimes it is difficult to tell where one illness ends and the other begins.

The above case looks like classic schizo-obsessive disorder. Schneiderian symptoms such as hearing ones thoughts spoken out loud are common as are ideas of reference and in particular paranoia. The prototypical “voice in the head” of OCD is often quite a loud voice, louder than in most OCD cases. In fact it is so loud that sufferers sometimes worry that others must be able to hear their thoughts. There is sometimes difficult diagnostics between a very loud OCD voice and and worrying that others can hear it, which has more of an OCD character to hearing one’s thoughts spoken aloud which is more schizophrenic..

Auditory hallucinations occur, but they are not common.

Functioning is often better than for schizophrenics. In the above case, you can see that this person has been able to move out of the parental home several times. They had to move back home, but most schizophrenics would probably be too ill to even survive living on their own for any length of time.

Delusions are often reported but are then denied as the person says that they do not really believe this. This is because these people often cannot accept being delusional. Probably what is happening is that delusional material is simply being hidden and then denied when a clinician confronts the person with it. Paranoid and grandiose delusions are common.

Insight wavers between complete loss to partial to even full insight on a spectrum where the symptoms move back and forth along the spectrum without any particular order or reason. These people may be more likely to recognize that they have schizophrenia than other schizophrenics because the presence of OCD enables improved insight. It is common for sufferers to waver between believing they have schizophrenia, insisting that they do not, being unsure whether they have it or not or saying that they have some illness other than schizophrenia to explain symptoms.

Thought disorder is often present but is less severe than in schizophrenia. Often written and spoken communications with schizo-obsessives can be quite clear and cogent whereas most schizophrenic communications typically have an odd to incoherent character abut them.

Mood symptoms are sometimes present and can take a bipolar character.

They are often highly intelligent, much more intelligent than schizophrenics. This is because OCD tends to strike more intelligent persons.

Treatment is often difficult as atypical antipsychotics often worsen the OCD, in many cases dramatically so.

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Skin Color among the Mongoloid Races

Mike815 writes:

Are there Neomongoloids darker(almost as dark as Indians) than Southern Chinese and Vietnamese? And are there Paleomongoloids other than the Ainu that are very light skinned?

Yes, in the south of China, there are some pretty dark Neos. And some Koreans and Japanese look pretty dark. When Neomongoloids look dark, their prototypical “yellow” skin seems to look “orange” or “tanned.” The northern ones in Japan and Korea can look more “orange” = darkened yellow, and the ones in Southern China can look more “tanned.” Probably the ones in the South are more melaninized as it is a lot hotter down there.

The Ainu are not really Paleos. They are Australoids. Paleos are Australoid-Mongoloid transitionals.

Some Ryuku Islanders may be quite light. Many Ryuku Islanders may be more properly classed as Paleomongoloids than as Neomongoloids.

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More On Possible Paleocaucasoids

Mike815 writes:

If there is a division between the Northern Chinese and the Southern Chinese, should the Chinese people in Western China be regarded as another separate group of Chinese since most of them(especially the Uighur people) have varying degrees of Caucasoid admixture that are identical to Central Asians?

The Uighurs are very much a different type of people. They are very much Caucasoid-Neomongoloid mixes. They are in that way similar to the Central Asian peoples of the Stans where the Caucasoid mix is more Iranid and the Neomongoloid element is Mongolian.

Also for some reason, genetic charts and papers on ancient peoples seem to show that the Uighurs are like the Mozabites, Orkney Islanders and Kalash in that they are a very ancient people. They are either very ancient Neomongoloids, which I find dubious, or they are the remains of very ancient Caucasoids, which I think is a lot more accurate. So maybe the Uighurs are Paleocaucaoid-Neomongoloid mixes.

So possibly some genetically Paleocaucasoid peoples would be:

  • Orkney Islanders
  • Mozabites
  • Berbers in general
  • Uighurs
  • Kalash
  • Chukchi
  • South Indians?

The Orkney Islanders are interesting in that they are very modern Caucasoids yet their genes are very ancient. In fact, their genes trace back to Northeastern Asia where the Chukchi and the Ainu reside. So possibly this is the same group of people. Orkney Islanders then may be Paleoasian Chukchi or Ainuid types who migrated to Europe and simply transitioned over to modern Caucasoids over time.

The Berbers are some of the most diverse Caucasoids of all, and in fact, on some charts, they show up as Africans,  not even Caucasoids. These are odd people, phenotypical Caucasoids that sometimes have African genetics, similar to the odd Chukchi, phenotypical Asians who sometimes have Caucasoid genetics.

As far as phenotypes go, Paleocaucasoids would be:

  • Mozabites
  • Uighurs
  • Kalash
  • South Indians
  • Horners
  • Chukchi?

The Chukchi are very odd as they show up Caucasoid on some genetic charts, yet their appearance is Mongoloid. Whether they are Neomongoloid or Paleomongoloid is uncertain. They look more Paleo to me. But if they look Mongoloid, then why do they have Caucasoid genes. Possibly the very ancient Caucasoids, some of the most ancient of all, looked Mongoloid. The confusion regarding the “Caucasoid” appearance of very ancient Paleoasian Ainu and Paleoamerind Kennewick Man points in this direction. Kennewick Man is not actually Caucasoid. Instead, he is an Ainuid (Paleoasian).

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Were the Shang Dynasty People Black?

Mike815 writes:

Yes, the Shang Dynasty people in Southern China people may well have been Negritos or maybe Melanesian types. That is well known.

The Australoid -> Mongoloid transition seems to have been later in Southern China and Vietnam than it was in the north, where it occurred much earlier, around 9,000 YBP.

In the South, the Australoid -> Mongoloid transition took place 2,300-4,500 YBP, and many Southeast Asians have not even fully transitioned but are still transitional types moving from Australoids towards Neomongoloids, that is, they are Paleomongoloids. There are figures on the Angkor Watt temples that look very much like Negrito or Melanesian people. These may well have been the basic Khmer type ~3,000-4,000 YBP.

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Why Everyone Cannot “Advance”

Jason Y writes:

The educated white leftists might view white proles as lazy. Seeing that the white proles don’t have racial prejudice or another bad environmental factor working against them, they shouldn’t have probems advancing in society. Of course, though that isn’t always the case. The illegal immigration is quite aggressive and takes white proles off guard.

The very fact that White Leftists would condemn working class Whites for not “advancing” shows that they are not real Leftists at all. A real true Leftist loves the working class. If you don’t love the working class, you’re not a Leftist. Maybe you are on the Left, but you are not a real Leftie. You are what we call a liberal. And this right there is one reason I dislike White liberals so much. At least in the US, they aren’t even very liberal! In the US at least, White liberals are notoriously classist. Classists on the Left? Disgusting!

So no White Leftist should or would ever condemn a working class White for not “advancing” because according to Left theory, it is 100% acceptable to be a working class person your whole life. In fact, I do know some real White Leftists who are very intelligent but simply work at working class jobs. One guy I know is about 60 years old and has been laying bricks his whole life. He’s one of the smartest people I ever met. Another guy works as some sort of an orderly in a hospital. If you ever meet a really smart Leftwinger working in some basic working class job and who is totally happy with it, you know you have met a real Leftie, not a fake liberal.

Why are they lazy? What’s wrong with being working class? Why does everyone have to “advance?” This is the insanity of US society. It’s called “everyone has to be a winner.” You see, everyone has to “advance.” But why? What’s wrong with being working class? What’s wrong with just being a working class person your whole life?

Do you realize that 100% of society cannot constantly “advance?” Saying everyone has to always be advancing is like saying that everyone has to win. How can everyone win? Life is like a footrace. If you have 1,000 runners, someone will come in first, someone will come in 100th (top 10th) and a lot will come in 900th-1,000th.

No matter how many times you run the race, you will always end up with 10% of more being “losers.” This is exactly the way capitalist society is. No matter how hard everyone runs in that race, the bottom 10% will always end up in 900th-1,000th place. Being in the bottom 10% doesn’t mean you were “lazy.” Many some runners didn’t try, but even if everyone tried their hardest to run their fastest, 10% would still end up 900th-1,000th.

So capitalist society will always have winners and losers no matter how hard anyone tries. This is why it is insane to say that the people on the bottom are not trying hard enough or they are lazy for not “advancing.” Sure maybe some on the bottom are lazy, but if you arranged society like a game and made everyone try their hardest, you would still end up with 10% losers, because capitalist society is like a footrace and this is how the game is rigged or set up.

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Did Caucasoids Come from Australoids?

Mike815 writes:

Robert, if Paleomongoloids are half Neomongoloids and half Australoids, is it true that the Mediterranean and Arab Caucasoids are and half Nordics or at least being a mix of the two?

There are ancient Caucasoids from Southern Russia dating back 35,000 years. Their skulls are said to be Australoid.

If you consider that the original Caucasian stock was 2/3 Proto-Chinese (maybe Paleo-Ainuid) and 1/3 Ancient African (no idea on Earth what they looked like, but they may have looked like Negritos), birthed in the Caucasus 42,000 YBP according to Cavalli-Sforza. The Negritos are an Australoid people. The Proto-Chinese from 40,000 YBP were no doubt an Australoid people. So it looks like Caucasoids were birthed from the Australoid race. But the Asians were also birthed from Australoids. This makes sense as probably the first people out of Africa turned into Australoids at some point after they left Africa, so all out of Africa races probably have an Australoid origin.

I am not aware of what ancient African skulls from 42,000 YBP look like.

The reconstruction of a skull from 35,.000 YBP does not look like any existing human race but it looks more Khoisanid than anything else.

I know that skulls from Europe 22,000 YBP match most closely with the Makah Indians, so it appears that 20-25,000 YBP in Europe Caucasoids looked like Paleomongoloids. How exactly they transitioned to modern day Caucasoids, I have no idea.

The problem is that when you that far back, you are dealing with races that don’t even exist anymore. So we can look at skulls and say, “Well, these ancient people looked most like these modern people.” But that is not the same thing as saying that the ancient people and the modern people are the same. You follow?

No, the only place where Caucasoids and Australoids mixed in recent days was in India, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, Nepal, Pakistan, places like that. There has also been Australoid-Caucasoid mixing in Australia. I am not sure what the mixes end up looking like. Possible those mixes might be called Paleocaucasoid. So a lot of Indian people may be termed Paleocaucasoids. I actually like that term because there is good evidence that the Indian people are the remains of one of the oldest Caucasoid races on Earth.

A Mozabite, probably a Proto-Caucasian type.

A Mozabite, probably a Proto-Caucasian type.

Another very old race is a group called Mozabites in North Africa. They may also be an ancient Caucasoid race. I think the Mozabites are Paleocaucasoids.

More very odd looking Mozabite people. Notice that there is some resemblance to South Asian types, which makes sense as South Asians are Paleocaucasians.

More very odd looking Mozabite people. Notice that there is some resemblance to South Asian types, which makes sense as South Asians are Paleocaucasians.

The Sami race is also very ancient Caucasoid. I am not sure if they are Paleocaucasoids.

I am not sure if the Kalash are Paleocaucasoids or not, but some of them look pretty strange.

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What Does a Neomongoloid-Australoid Cross Look Like?

Anthropology1994 writes:

So if a person looks Neomongoloid but has more percent of Paleomongoloid genes, will he still be categorized as Neomongoloid? And will a half Neomongoloid half Australoid that looks Neomongoloid be categorized too as Neomongoloid?

Yes all of this is based on phenotype or appearance. None of it is based on genetics.

The Japanese are Neomongoloid-Australoid crosses, but they are 80% Neo and only 20% Australoid. That gives you some sort of an idea of what such a cross may look like.

Well, they might be classed as Paleos. From what I have seen, Japanese-Ainu crosses look rather Paleo. A lot of them look like Taiwanese Aborigines.

But honestly, Neos are not going to breed in with hardcore Australoids anywhere on Earth. How many Chinese people are going to breed with a Senoi, a Veddoid, a Naga, a Melanesian, a Negrito, a Papuan or an Aborigine.

Hell, how many Chinese even breed with a Tamil? Maybe in Singapore?

I do believe that you end up with a Paleo type when you breed these two together. And for some reason when you breed a Mongoloid with an Australoid, a lot of the time, you end up with something that looks rather Caucasoid. I have no idea why that is except that perhaps “Caucasoid” is one of a limited set of possible endpoints for a human phenotype. In other words, no matter how you mix up and interbreed humans, the ways in which we can end up looking are only going to fall into a fairly small subset of all possible appearances. And that subset probably looks like the races we have now. Look how many humans look like Negroids but are not Negroid at all.

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Immigrants are Great Because They Make Products So Much Cheaper!

James Schipper writes:

Dear Robert
If there is a job that nobody in a country won’t do, then either the wage offered is too low or else it is a job that shouldn’t be done at all. Suppose that a job is so dangerous that anyone working at it will die within 10 hours, then such a job shouldn’t exist.

Let’s assume that Obama had died in a car accident 12 years ago. Would that mean that the US would be without a President today? Obviously not. Something else would have changed as well and somebody else would be President today. Yet, this is the type of fallacy that people often use with regard to immigration. They see that all the landscape workers in a city are immigrants, and then draw the conclusion that there would be no landscaping services if these immigrants had not come. Of course there would be landscaping without the immigrants, but it probably would cost a bit more.

The benefits of low-cost labor to consumers are often slight. Let’s assume that a hotel maid can clean 2 rooms in a hour and that she gets paid 10 dollars per hour. What if she got paid 16 dollars per hour? Then the price of a hotel room for a night would go up by 3 dollars. Not a huge sum.

Without legal or illegal immigration some goods and services would be more expensive, but why does nobody complain about the huge fees that dentists and lawyers charge? These fees aren’t going to be brought down by low-skilled illegal immigrants.

Regards. James

The capitalists are lying dirtballs. They always screw the customer as much as they can possibly get away with. Why else would they be so opposed to consumer groups and pro-consumer legislation? Why is it that every capitalist media outlet in the US absolutely hates Consumer Reports Magazine? That mag is one of the most hated magazines in the country. The entire rest of the media despises them.

But when they get to hire Hindu 1-B’s, scabs and illegals, they scream and yell about how cool it is for us consumers! Like they care about us! They don’t care about us. Actually, we, the consumers, are the enemy. So why are they on our side for once? Answer? They aren’t. They are just trying to get us on board with their cheap labor project which was done to line their pockets and for no other reason.

As far as I can tell, I am getting no benefits from these illegals, none, zero, zip, zilch. Sure illegals have replaced legal Americans in many jobs, but I never noticed the cost of anything going down. American workers replaced with Mexicans at a restaurant? Food costs as much as ever. I understand that landscaping costs as much as it ever did, but the capitalist small businessmen are making a lot more money hiring illegals as their labor costs are less. No construction contractor is lowering his prices because he hires illegals. He just makes more money.

I can’t think of one single item I might purchase where I think, “Wow, all those workers are illegals now, so I can get it for really cheap!”

Generally, when an industry goes all illegals, the prices are the same as ever, but the capitalist small businessmen are simply making a lot more money. They don’t bother to pass on the labor savings to us. They just pocket the profits.

There are literally no benefits for me here on the ground. I do not believe I am seeing lower prices for anything as a result of some company hiring illegals.

I remember when my town was all White and all the “jobs Whites won’t do” were being done by White men. Then many to most of them got replaced by illegals. I didn’t notice that anything became cheaper just because the Americans were replaced by illegals.

The software companies are replacing all of their American, mostly White, programmers with cheap, lousy Hindu 1-B scabs from India who can’t code their way out of a paper bag. The labor savings have been tremendous. They may pay a Hindu 1-B up to 50% less than a White man. So is software any cheaper? It seems like it costs as much as ever.

As a general rule, businesses do not pass on their labor savings to consumers. That is a massive delusion that a lot of people believe. They aren’t hiring that cheap scab labor so they can be cool and give you a great deal on your whatever. They are hiring them so they can pocket more profits. If they pass on their labor savings to you, they don’t get to pocket any profits from their cheap labor, which defeats the whole purpose of hiring them in the first place. I doubt if there is one business in the US that hires immigrants or illegals and passes on the full labor savings to consumers.

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