Ishmael writes:
And didn’t you make a post about how gays were more cultured? A healthy love for literature and art is great, but it seems gays now are more concerned with fashion (why fashion?), female pop singers and beauty products. Feminine products designed to attract a mate. Men shouldn’t be overly concerned with this crap and focus on more important things.
I agree that gay men have basically abandoned literature and art anymore in favor of more base pursuits. This is sad. If straight men are avoiding art and lit because it’s too faggoty, at least we might have the gays to pick up the slack and redeem themselves and us men in general by being the cultural vanguard of the male sex. But sadly, gay men seem to be as narcissistic, petty and pedestrian as straight men anymore.
Fashion, pop singers and beauty products.
These are the obsessions of narcissistic and shallow females. Men of any orientation should not degrade themselves with such a feminine, solipsistic, vain, gossipy and bitchy lifestyle. There’s plenty enough females around as it is. No use creating fake females with Y chromosomes.
Fashion? Lame. I knew two guys who were really into fashion. They both worked at clothing stores in the mall. They were both very good friends of mine, but after the friendships ended (rather abruptly almost like a lover’s quarrel!?) I heard that both of those guys got into homosexuality, or bisexuality I guess, since they were both into women pretty seriously when I knew them.
They were both exclusively straight when I knew them, but they always talked about queers and homosexuality because the retail fashion industry was absolutely swarming with queers, both as workers and consumers.
So the score is
2 guys really into fashion = 2 bisexual guys.
That’s 2 for 2 as I see it.
Screw fashion. I change my clothes a lot (lately I have been wearing an expensive silk shirt that I got for very cheap), but I am pretty much a dog about fashion.
Female pop singers. LOL wut? Nuf said!
On to the next topic!
Fashion products? Huh? I have 2 shavers, soap, shampoo, conditioner and two brushes. I make sure my hair is nice and neat when I go out, but I often don’t even shave. When I do shave, I now shave my ears and even nose. I am told that women like men “clean” this way nowadays.
I tuck in my shirts well or leave them out if it’s appropriate. I tie or belt my pants. I usually wear sandals. I get my hair cut regularly and often even cut my own hair a bit here and there. And I trim my eyelashes sometimes too. I used to have aftershave, but I ran out and have not restocked.
I do not wear stained, ripped, dirty, or smelly clothes. Those go right in the wash or trash. Around my neighborhood, if you avoid stained, ripped, dirty or smelly clothes as a male, you’re basically a fashion maven.
It depends how into fashion you mean. A lot of straight guys are into fashion to the extent of taking enough interest in clothes to dress well and even develop their own style. There are a lot of men’s clothes stores of all kinds and they aren’t all catering to bisexuals and gays.
You see masculine Asian and black guys who are really well dressed. Sometimes they are bright and brash and all about new sneakers and labels. Other times they have quite a refined sense of style. Men care about fashion to look good, impress people, boost their status and attract woman.
Fashion is also huge for kids and teenagers where I’m from. When I was a teen there was strong peer pressure to wear certain things. Some labels had real stigma and wearing the wrong shoes or bag could get you bullied. Others were the in thing and brought status and acceptance.
When I went to Slovenia as a teen, a not long ex socialist country, I was surprised by how absent the huge concern with labels and the oppressive peer pressure in regard to fashion was. One kid wore his grandmother’s pink sweat pants/jogging bottoms for PE and get this…..nobody bullied him. I swear in my school, its quite possible he still would have been mercilessly taunted for this years later.
I’m trying to understand this in my own mind so excuse me if its not clear yet. On the one hand, the enormous concern with clothing/fashion and the pervasiveness of fashion is something manufactured by capitalist companies for money making- one aspect of consumerism. Capitalism appears to be super effective at creating, refining and flooding the world with superficial desirables and making everyone obsessed with them. On the other hand, this must be rooted in the human condition- in the superficial aspects of our nature, in our artistic and creative intelligence, and and our evolved wish for social acceptance and status.
As long as we wear clothing, its understandable for us to be creative with them and want them to have a certain aesthetic charm or beauty. I don’t think that would go away with capitalism. But what form would it take and how much would people care about it without capitalism? Who would make the clothes and how far would fashion go?
Also, I’m sorry to say but this obsession with superficiality goes on within a spiritual vacuum. Materialism (the valuing and pursuit of material goods) is related to philosophical materialism. When there is no spirituality in our lives, no concern with the deep things, and no deeper or greater purpose to our lives then what are we going to do but concern ourselves and distract ourselves with superficial things and pursuits? What have we got to think about but clothes, food, the latest movie and our next holiday? There’s nothing else to do and nothing that provides a big enough incentive to reform the masses. Consumerism is related to a deeper spiritual problem.
Human society wont change until we change spiritually, until we get more knowledge and re-evaluate our lives. Until then, capitalism or socialism- its just about what does a better job of making stuff.
If you see Edward Bernay’s Century of Self on Youtube, you will get a clearer understanding of consumerism in America. Capitalists have devised ways to emotionally mess with people’s minds and divide people BY THE THINGS THEY BUY. Buying things are now a part of your identity. It’s kind of like how the OWS movement goes on twitter, facebook and use apple products (RICH companies) while talking down the ceos of wallstreet.
Fashion is good, looking good is good – as a man. But when taken to the extremes women take them, like gay men, it pretty much takes away the manhood of a person. GAY MEN OVERSEXUALIZE FASHION AND TAKING CARE OF YOURSELF. I don’t know many men that fester in front of a mirror to see if his jeans perfectly match the contours of his ass.
If you want a reversal, look at butch females like Rachel Maddow or Rosie O’Donnel, Hillary or even Oprah. Ugly, bitchy and very masculine. It’s wierd.
thanks for the recommendation. Good points.
(bitchiness is a feminine trait and some gay men are super bitches).
Apple is the ‘socialist’ brand name!
When you were a kid around girls what was the first thing they did when they had numbers. They dressed you up in makeup and girl clothes like a fruitcake. All these guys are super metro because the girls they are around seem to demand it. It’s all about getting a mating partner at the end of the day. Women now hold the power in this situation.
Hard to imagine that men used to dictate the sexual selection and now men shave their balls and pluck their eyebrows to please women.
You should work on selling a ‘spiritual’ product in order to turn the tide. Make sure to market to emotions of emptiness, loneliness, and insecurity and promise that you will be able to give them a life that will never feel sad ever again and they will make millions of dollars through their ‘spiritual’ transformation!
Buy now within the next hour and receive energy stones scientifically proven to dissolve spiritual blockages and materialism! That’s a thousand dollar value of spiritual growth. Yours free.
CALL NOW!
One kid wore his grandmother’s pink sweat pants/jogging bottoms for PE and get this…..nobody bullied him.
He needs a beatin’! Jesus Christ, that would be enough to ruin your life here.
haha its funny cos its true. You’d have to give him a beating, just out of concern for the kid.
A good hiding would be the paternal thing to do!
‘a good hiding’ lol! Do they say that in Ireland? Its an old fashioned scouse phrase but I’m guessing it came from Ireland.
My South African born mother used to say it so I assumed it was common in England as well.
Well, it’s certainly a common saying in Ireland but I have no idea of it’s original provenance. It has a charm, I think it sounds great in that it’s slightly comical but could also be quite menacing.
Gay male fascination with campy, superficial pop culture is nothing new. Goes back before Elizabethan times. A superficial, bitchy, not too smart gay man is not going to appreciate art and great literature any more than anyone else. Its a question of intellect more than sexual orientation.
This sounds right.
A dumb gay man shouldn’t be held to a higher standard than a dumb woman.
I recall a phobe friend who griped about another guy that spent too much time on his hair. This was twenty years ago.
Sorry, but are you implying that fashion makes you bisexual or gay?
I mean, you can’t seriously believe that, I must be misunderstanding you. Please clarify.
Certainly there must be straight guys who are really, really into fashion. But really the only two guys I have ever known well who were into it were bisexual. I knew some other guys who worked in those clothing stores who were apparently straight.
I must disagree on your assessment of fashion. While not being that interested in it personally, I have to admire people (men and women) who make an effort to look the best they can. Fashion is really a form of art. It is art, and culture as well. As a side note, I think one can definitely see the devolution of American men in particular in the way they dress. It would have been unheard of even 20-30 years ago for adult men to lumber around in baseball caps, dirty sneakers (or crocs, ugh) and baggy, stained t shirts..
That’s just fine, but my personal experience has been that men who are extremely into fashion to the point of the guys who worked in the fancier clothing stores in the mall were, frankly, a bunch of faggots.
Now that just turns me off from the whole scene right there. Even if I had the money to indulge, why would I get involved in such a gay-overrun scene? Forget it. I’ve deal with way too many gay and bisexual men as it is in my life. Don’t need any more of them.
I also want to know what’s in it for me? Are these fancy clothes going to get me chicks or not? If not, why bother?
Yeah, they’ll get you chicks. They’ll increase your chances anyway. People in general judge you/react to you differently depending on what you are wearing. They read off them a lot about status, money, personality.
and also, regarding what you get out of them, maybe you will feel better about yourself or more confident if you are well dressed. You can walk down the street knowing you are looking good.
I like a woman to be stylishly dressed. It shows she is making an effort for you and she looks after herself well. It sends all these kinds of signals.
…and shows she has good taste
Of course we like it when women dress up. It’s what they do! They dress up! That’s what being a woman is all about, really.
About men, not so sure. Around these parts, hardly any guys dress up at all.
Its not just about ‘dressing up’. You can dress casually but well. Like I said, people judge you on what you are wearing. Woman definitely do for mating purposes, one hundred million percent.
A female close to me used to say that a guy could be really physically attractive but if he had scruffy/dirty/badly chosen shoes, that would negate said attractiveness.
But where I live, yeah men ‘dress up’ on nights out or formal occasions or for certain jobs. They aren’t walking around the streets in a nice shirt, generally.
well, she never put it like that but you know, it would turn her off him.
If you are scruffy, dirty etc, people wont respect you as much. It means low status. A whole range of judgments comes from dress about personality, culture, status, money etc etc etc. Everyone makes them all the time.
you don’t have a whole lot more than someone’s appearance to judge them on, until you get to know them. That means looks, hairstyle, clothes.
That’s one reason why fashion is so popular. It is connected to identity. It is what you project to the world, what you say about yourself. And its done for status and for mating. A big part of why people get rolex watches for other people’s sake, to be seen with it on.
gays oversexualize fashion, that’s the problem. No doubt dressing classy is good, but like I said before, dressing so your jeans match the contour of you ass is strange.
Apart from the fact it as nice watch to wear, what does a rolex say: I am rich. I can afford a rolex. lol
Even if gays sexualise fashion, what if straight guys start doing it? It wont make them gay. It will just mean they want to show off their body to woman and it might work. Straight guys do that anyway. They go to the gym to get muscles to attract woman, and they wear tight t shirts or vests to show them off.
That’s true. Goes with the name of this thread.
All I’m saying is that Kingdom Brunel or T.R didn’t have this mentality. And I doubt the normal working man worried about it either. Oversexualization is a disease of capitalism.
Its not just about ‘dressing up’. You can dress casually but well. Like I said, people judge you on what you are wearing. Woman definitely do for mating purposes, one hundred million percent.
A female close to me used to say that a guy could be really physically attractive but if he had scruffy/dirty/badly chosen shoes, that would negate said attractiveness.
But where I live, yeah men ‘dress up’ on nights out or formal occasions or for certain jobs. They aren’t walking around the streets in a nice shirt, generally.
This isn’t what I am talking about. These guys were basically “fashion mavens.” They were “fashion nuts.” And yeah, most of the guys I knew who were insanely into high fashion were either bisexual or gay. I remember another guy who was a very fashionable fellow at the place I worked in Beverly Hills. Basically either a gay or a mostly bisexual gay. Had a beautiful gf though.
gays oversexualize fashion, that’s the problem. No doubt dressing classy is good, but like I said before, dressing so your jeans match the contour of you ass is strange.
Exactly! This is what I mean. And it now makes sense that guys who are really, really into fashion are often gay or bisexual. Of course they are! Their attitude towards clothes is the same as a woman’s!
Even if gays sexualise fashion, what if straight guys start doing it? It wont make them gay. It will just mean they want to show off their body to woman and it might work. Straight guys do that anyway.
The problem is that it could “turn them gay” in a sense. Even straight and mostly straight males have a tremendous capacity for bisexuality. Trust me when I say I know what I’m talking about when it comes to this! And when it becomes hip, a lot of them will just start doing it.
Even if they don’t actually do it, they end up like the guy in this post. A seriously faggoty straight male. Which, let’s face it, from my POV, is somewhat disgusting. I mean, a straight man is not supposed to be really faggoty. If you want to be faggoty, just be gay. Faggoty is for gays. If you’re straight, try to act at least a little bit like a man, God damn it.
I’m not sure I buy that sexualized or body conscious fashion is strictly a gay thing, either. Men have been using fashion to display or accentuate physical characteristics forever. The knee breeches worn in the 18th century were specifically meant to accentuate the calves, which *women* of the time regarded as a particularly attractive male trait. The Renaissance: tights, codpieces, ’nuff said. Greco Roman armor with idealized male torsoes in relief. It’s true that the modern suit is specifically intended to deemphasize male physical traits (which is why the Governator always looks a little ill at ease in one, and Alan Greenspan doesn’t) but that’s a relatively recent thing. Anyway, were all these guys gay?
[youtube http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOHHK-yrFjA&w=420&h=315%5D
This guy knows how to dress to please a woman!
The suit – a man’s premier wardrobe, was not designed with sexuality in mind. It’s a symbol of power over other men. Power financially, power in their career, whatever. It doesn’t show men’s pecs and abs quite well.
Women’s clothing catered to her sexual shape. Now men’s clothing falls into this line. Capitalism has destroyed gender roles.
THAT is why I’m irked out about it.
Since gay men are looking for attraction to other visual based males, they come off as feminine and weak. They look good to attract a man, just like a woman.
You have to admit though that there are some very sharply dressed men that would cut your nuts off without a second thought.
Are they wearing a suit?
Are they wearing a suit?
Yes. A tailored suit.
This comes to mind.
Oops, wrong board.