I really didn’t want to do this, but I finally had to. This is a socialist blog, and one of the rules here is no rightwing economics. John violated this rule on endless occasions. He’s only supposed to get one warning, but he got way more than that. He just did it again, and this was the last time.
I’m not wild about his other views – his support for Ron Paul, his Libertarianism, his wild Islamophobia, his anti-Semitism combined with equally ridiculous fanatical Zionism, his insane rightwing populism and his insanity in general, but most of that isn’t necessarily bannable, although it’s odd to see it on a progressive website for sure. Well, now we won’t have to put up with that anymore either.
I know a lot of you are going to squeal, but what’s done is done. At any rate, the sanity level of the blog ought to go up just a bit.
Hi Robert, I have been enjoying your info about Bigfoot very much. Thank you! You mentioned progressive vs conservative. I am a conservative Christian Republican and a native Texan and part native American, and I am still a fan of your Bigfoot news blog. I am certainly not a socialist, but I am not afraid to entertain other people’s beliefs because we also all have so many things in common – like Bigfoot
Just don’t talk politics and you won’t get banned.
There are tons of conservatives who post here, usually about nonpolitical stuff like Bigfoot and whatnot. As long as they keep their politics inside, they can post all they want. If they want to post political stuff, there are about 100 million conservative sites out there where they can post that.
We talk about a ton of other stuff on here outside the political realm, and conservatives can talk about that stuff all they want to.
Aww….
That sounds great to me! I’m glad I’m welcome, I love your bigfoot blog.
Great! YW Natalie!
I love John. Things will get boring without him.
I would have said to John “welcome to the club of the banned ” – but I am no longer a member!
So Zionism is back on the blog!
I know that this information will be greeted with a mixture of wild excitement and bored indifference.
Awaiting your welcome………………
Zionism is back! And back with a vengeance!
WB Andyboy!
There’s a difference between you and John UK. First of all, you’re sane, and he’s not. Second, you can follow rules, and he’s incorrigible.
I LOVE John. He provides comic relief to an otherwise tense forum.
how come Andyboy got banned in the first place then? I could file back through all the posts but fuck that. I don’t care that much. But WB Andyboy!
Anybody appealed his ban. You’re allowed to do that, but almost no one ever does because most of those banned are assholes. Andyboy, despite his politics, is not an asshole. He’s actually a good person if you leave the politics aside.
So Andyboy, what new hasbara can we expect? Perhaps something along the lines of the U.S. needs to attack Iran in order to help Israel, oops, I mean to defeat an evil nuclear weapons obsessed country that’s part of the axis of Islamic evil and a threat to world peace…
Well, of course, one man’s Hasbara is another man’s truth.
The measures America needs to take regarding Iran will be decided according to what it considers to be in it’s own best interests – as always.
The decision makers will be subjected to all kinds of pressures, but they are the one’s who will decide.
That’s why they pay them the big bucks.
Should that decision involve a military element, no doubt you will disagree with it.
That’s your right – but then you’re not in the hot seat.
Fuck You, Andy Boy. There’s your welcome!
pwnt
And your point is?
Thank you Mott!
Exactly what I could have expected from you.
Eloquent as ever
I assume I can look forward to you maintaining this level of debate in the future?
Whist you persist in maintaining eloquence level of the dearest loquatiousness, I fear that you and I shant be on nothing but the finest of terms. “Fuck off and die, Andy Boy”, I should have said. Correction duly noted!
Greetings, goyim! Your president, Baruch Herzl Obamawitz is back. I was relaxing in the white house, getting ready to bomb Iran on behalf of massa Bibi, when I couldn’t help but notice that you were menacing a proud Israeli Jew.
He is our ally, part of the only democracy in the Middle East, and our first and foremost commitment is to the this great ally!
Mott, as commander in chief, I order you to worship Andyboy, because Israel comes first, and the American people need to be with me on this one!
America’s relationship to Israel reminds me of Offspring’s “Self esteem”
Gay Area Guy and Dota
You must admit it is sweet irony to watch great satan be taken down by a tiny country like Israel.
I admit, things here will be a little less interesting without Johnny Boy, but I applaud your decision.
He always posted the same Chechen conspiracy, Brzezinski, Islamic anti-Christ crap, and it got old after a while.
Not to mention I couldn’t understand what the hell he was talking about most of the time.
To be fair, the U.S is trying to re-create some sort of a neo-ottoman empire to counter balance Russia+China
This is breaking news indeed. So we trade Johnny boy for Andy boy? Given both their levels of sanity, I’d say its a very equal trade.
“Not to mention I couldn’t understand what the hell he was talking about most of the time.”
One reason you couldn’t argue with him is because you cannot engage a delusional man on his own turf. There is no logic that binds the fabric of his reality and so it’s impossible to keep up. Not that you’d want to anyway.
Aww hell I miss fruitcake already, and for old times sake, Johnny boy, this one’s for you
That was the best part.
I’ll trade you TWO Johnny Boys for one Andy Boy. Are you listening, Robert?
Is that your final offer?
I think I’m worth more than that!
And how many John Boys equal a Mott?
”I really didn’t want to do this, but I finally had to. This is a socialist blog, and one of the rules here is no rightwing economics. John violated this rule on endless occasions. He’s only supposed to get one warning, but he got way more than that. He just did it again, and this was the last time.”
First of all I was not advocating right wing economics I was stating a fact that India’s economic development like China started once they started implementing western free market reform which is a fact but you are so virulently anti-India you don’t like any defence of India.
“I’m not wild about his other views – his support for Ron Paul”
Only US presidential candidate that is anti-war.
“his Libertarianism”
Libertarianism is rightwing? Yes there are good points about libertarianism especially in regards to Central Banking.
”his wild Islamophobia,”
Sorry I just post the fact and critique Islam like other mainstream social commentators without the hypocritical bullshit of the good jihad vs bad jihad like we got from the likes of Christopher Hitchens.
As I have stated before Islam is the only religion on Earth that is in conflict with every other religion with most terrorist groups and ethnic conflict involving Muslims/Islam which is an aggressive, racist, expansionist economic and cultural system that advances US global hegemony.
Did you not post some of my “wild Islamaphobic” videos like Muslim behavior in France?
“his anti-Semitism combined with equally ridiculous fanatical Zionism,”
How can I be anti-Semitic and pro-Zionist?
My critique of Jews which I usually cite Jewish sources as a reference are historic political and economic activities that go against their host nations that famous people like Mark Twain, FDR, Churchill and others have made comments about.
I have been a harsher critic of Britain and the US does that make me anti-British/American?
I don’t see how I am pro-Zionist simply because I state the historical fact that Palestine was created by a Roman general to quell Jewish revolts against the Roman Empire bring in neighboring tribes from Syria and other places.
Israel is far more tolerant and open country than any of the neighboring countries in the region.
”his insane rightwing populism and his insanity in general, but most of that isn’t necessarily bannable, although it’s odd to see it on a progressive website for sure. Well, now we won’t have to put up with that anymore either.”
I am neither left nor right which are social constructs created to frame limited debates which really have no meaning in modern society with the Democratic and Republican parties in the US and the Conservative and Liberal parties in Europe being an example of this.
”I know a lot of you are going to squeal, but what’s done is done. At any rate, the sanity level of the blog ought to go up just a bit.”
Yes more Indian bashing, advocating failed socialist economics which you are not allowed to argue against and Bigfoot news.
@Bay Area Guy
I post facts with references from western sources which include intelligence sources and US terrorism court cases that you or anybody else on this blog has yet to refute.
@Gay State Girl
Comic relief. WTF!!
@Xera
Since the collapse of the USSR and dating back to the Afghan war in 79 our purpose is to create an Arc of Crisis against Russia in Eurasia supporting Pan-Turanian Islamic movements among the various ethnic groups in the Eurasian landmass and Russia itself to control the future oil and gas energy reserves to Europe and Asia.
Balkans wars, Islamic terrorism, Chechnya, Brzezinski, Kissinger, Rothschild, Soros, colour revolutions, Georgia, Ukraine, Russia, Xinjing, Kosovo, Afghanistan, Taliban, Wahabism, Fetullah Gulen, Grey Wolves, Turkey, Azerbaijan, Central Asia, Missile shield, NATO and 9/11.
What do you think the connection is?
Really you guys are all jumping on this too seriously. It’s the internet, people proceed with their lives after they are done, all this blog commentating is nothing but a side activity from the main important stuff that they have to handle & take care of in their lives. People have normal life’s they have to live in. I don’t think JohnUk was an exception, although what he always said about some stuff was just ridicules, he never came off NEARLY as annoying and irritating as Huax, Andyboy, fy3p, Howard, Asian philosopher, Asia finest trolls, Storm fronters, Pro-corporatist hard core capitalist Americans, Libertarian HBDers, pro-Israeli’s & Jewish sympathizers, Nordicists, Hinduvta fascists, Han centrist Chinese nationalists, Arab racists, Afro-centrists, idiotic selfish high caste diaspora Indians, Persian nationalists and European obsessed Persians, wannabe Persians (Cyrus), Sinophilliacs, Japanophiles, East Asian admirers/worshippers, right-wing sympathizers & advocates, Aryan invasion denier Indians, Indian nationalist/South nationalist crowd, orientalists, hard-core Jared taylor types, “gamers” & Roosh followers, white supremacists, anti-racism is anti white crowd, red necks, self-loathing blacks, feminists and various other groups that have crossed roads here.
Surprisingly I was the only one that didn’t seem to have a problem with.
I find you annoying, Xera.
Ok well I really don’t care
problem with JohnUK at nearly the same level as others*
@Mott
Predictable as always.
At my age I am happy that I am still able to carry out the first word of your epithet.
And I’m getting closer to the second part every day!
Do you have anything more interesting to contribute?
Yeah, Andy…anything we can do to help you with the second part? I’ve already made out my check to Iranian Government, and told them I’m down for helping to smuggle centrifuges, make coffee, or man phone lines.
Oh, and I did read your nonsensical “comeback” post- (paraphrased):
“the deciders will decide”,
“countries will act in their own best interest”,
“we have a right to disagree (????), but, we don’t live in (Misrahell)”.
Here’s some advice: Drop your pathetic attempts to appear “neutral”- it’s comical!
Any other pearls, nuggets, or small turds of Infinite Jewish Wisdom you care to impart? You are belying the stereotype about all Jews being smart, Andy.
Predictable? You called me predictable? Not only do I resent that, but that kind of hate speech has no place in a civil forum like this. If you don’t cease, I will report you to the Departmanet of Hate Speech.
And you are confirming the stereotype of the “don’t confuse me with the facts” knee jerk Israel hating bigot.
I must check with Robert if personal death threats are permitted on this forum since they seem to be a fixation with you – certainly insofar as they concern me!
Really Andyboy, you consider Mott a threat when every Arab in Israel is a ticking time bomb?
Unfortunately, FOAD isn’t exactly a personal death threat, though we don’t encourage people to talk that way on here.
Andy- Let me clarify- I am not, I have never, threatened you personally. And I will never. That would be a violation of the (unspoken) rules of the net. I was just being mean. Very mean. Don’t be a crybaby.
BTW, do you know what is a threat to MY life, and to COUNTLESSS LIVES all over the planet?
People like you! Insane, psychopathic Israelis who insist that their sorry asses are worth World War Three erupting, all for their shitty piece of desert wasteland real estate that doesn’t really belong to them. Everyday, millions of innocent lives are being put at risk by the insane rantings of Zionists and Isreal-Lovers, insisting that the world has to go to war because of them.
News For You: You, and Israhell, aren’t that important. You aren’t worth a single innocent life. Happy Reapings!
And HAVE A NICE DAY ON THE SUNNY BEACHES OF ELIAT
” I have never, threatened you personally.”
I understand that I misinterpreted the meaning of FOAD. Perhaps you could give me your definition.
Regarding WW3 – we are pretty much in it. It’s been bubbling along for years. It is the “clash of civilisations” theory propounded by Samuel Huntington- with Muslims being the most aggressive and active.
Israel just happens to be in the front line – literally and figuratively. We are, what I once saw described as “the canary in the coal mine.”
What happens to us today will happen to America and the Western World tomorrow. This is neither insane or psychopathic – it’s reality.
You are the one who is ranting – not me.
Israel already protected the world from its own weakness by destroying the nuclear reactors in Iraq and Syria.
If we have to save the world yet again by dealing with Iran, so be it.
Those with a different worldview than you will thank us one day.
Amen Mott.
I just wish there was a way to punish Israel and the neocons, without giving the Palestinians the upper hand.
Count me out of the Gaza worship.
@ Mott
Oh, but don’t you see? WWIII erupting on behalf of Israel is more than just, since the world didn’t do enough to save the Jews during the Nazi holocaust.
Because we all know that the world revolves around the Jews and their needs/wants.
Well said Mott and BAG
A closer reading of Andyboy’s nonsense will demonstrate that his underlying argument is unequivocally “might makes right.” He seems morally retarded in that he cannot tell apart right from wrong. It’s ok for the Jews to form their nation at the expense of others, but it’s not ok for others to commit genocide against the Jews. It’s ok for Israel to exist, but not an Arab state. It’s ok for the Jews to have a right of return, but not Arabs. It’s ok for Jews to be entitled to their ethno nationalism, but not whites. And on and on. Essentially people like him will always prove Kevin MacDonald right when he states that the white man asks: Is it good for Mankind, whereas the Jew will ask: Is it good for the Jews.
Dota
You do make a lot of sweeping generalizations and false assumptions, though. The jewish community can be divided into multiple factions, and you have to recognize those distinctions if you’re want to formulate a sound argument, something Kevin MacDonald has failed to do. He basically treats everything-whether it is a roudy anonymous comment in the Internet, a blog column by a Jewish pundit, a press release by one Jewish institute or another or a statement by the Israeli government as if it came from the same source, and locate extreme example of both left wing radicalism and ethnocentric zionism (lumped in with right wing orthodox ideology) and juxtapose seemingly starkly contradictory behaviors as examples of jewish hypocrisy.
And do you really think that ANYONE acts purely in the name of humanity?
I actually think the Talmudic quotes about gentiles are worthy of further examination-but NOT the quotes about women. I don’t need Kevin MacDonald, David Duke, Adam Horowitz, Hillary Clinton or the leaders of OWS to rescue me.
@ GSG
I could actually care less about the Talmud, seeing as how most Jews aren’t even religious.
Jewish identity is really more of an aggressive ethnic identity, what Joe Sobran once describe as a “furtive racial superpatriotism.”
GSG, I don’t believe that anyone acts out of a purely humanitarian impulse.
I just think that Jews are much more blatantly hypocritical about it than anyone else. The fact that Jews are very much a diaspora group makes this hypocrisy much more visible.
What sweeping generalizations? That Jews cannot comprehend universalism? That much is true because they still are quite tribal in nature. It’s also obvious from their behavior, especially Israel’s use of collective punishment. Hindus and Jews cannot understand how wrong collective punishment is, because their identities are drawn from the collective. This is the reason the US is having a hard time occupying Iraq and Afghanistan. Because unlike Israel, Americans cannot bring themselves to carpet bomb a village to deter militant recruitment (some exceptions here like Fallujah). One cannot embrace the Jewish faith without the historical baggage that comes with it. Take my former Proff Barry Wilson (York University) who converted to Judaism for example. He made the switch from a white man enjoying his privileges to an oppressed Jew, hated and persecuted by all. Now he talks about how Christians oppress his people. His individualism has gone down the crapper.
Gay Area Guy
I think it would be wise to dig out the quotations now for the general public to see, so they can be judged objectively. If left to haters, they will be distorted and perverted. Those quotations David Duke cited were strictly about how menstruation contaminates women, and there is a silver lining, which he neglected to mention, as women are not obligated to perform their usual tasks during the week of their period.
Your loving fantasies about universalism and brotherly love haave no place in the real world. The ‘human family’ is nothing but a pipedream. Ethnic tribalism and religious sectarianism are here to stay. Accept it , embrace it, love it.
That reminds me. In an attempt to shed her aristocratic family background and to flee from white guilt, University of Chicago professor Martha Craven Nussbaum converted to reform Judaism, with no intention of practicing. In doing so, she became a member of a ‘minority.’
Dota once mentioned that a British Jew (who was presumably of Iberian Sephardic extraction) was a major shareholder in the British East India tea company, as a counter example to the secular Ostjuden’s role self proclaimed role in civil rights and social justice movements. Today he would deem their relatives “victims of Ashkenazi oppression.” David Duke has neglected to mention the Sephardic origins of Jews involved in the Trans Atlantic Slave trade. Instead he says modern Ostjuden should bear that burden, as well as take responsibility for the behavior of a few Western European Jewish banking families who wanted nothing to do with Ostjuden. You should recognize distinctions before you talk.
“”Your loving fantasies about universalism and brotherly love haave no place in the real world. “”
They do. The Renaissance is proof of it.
I just had an amusing thought (well it was funny to me anyhow) about you living in the Star Trek universe and lecturing non Bajoran members of the Marquis (Like Michael Eddington) about the folly of their actions. I can just imagine you going: “But what have the Bajorans done for you?! Would they give their lives if Earth was occupied by the Dominion or Romulans?!”
Kinda random, just made me chuckle for a bit. But seriously I do pity you, and you’ll live the rest of your life without being able to figure it out.
“you’ll live the rest of your life without being able to figure it out”
I’m having difficulty figuring out any of this drivel.
I don’t think I’ll waste time worrying about spaceships and aliens.
And you think I’M delusional?
Dude, it’s just a Star Trek reference!
Sometimes I forget how few people get Star Trek references–I thought it was rather clever, anyway.
I’m allergic to sci-fi. I have trouble sitting through movies period.
“Kinda random, just made me chuckle for a bit. But seriously I do pity you, and you’ll live the rest of your life without being able to figure it out.”
Now, now don’t flatter yourself. You
I don’t mind helping others, and don’t expect to be rewarded in kind, but I would not put myself out for a person or a group that would treat me like a second class citizen. I wish that kid in Bangladesh knew that.
This is the REAL tragedy.
http://mondoweiss.net/2012/02/cruelest-demolition-kills-palestinians-sheep-and-signals-political-tension-with-europeans.html
I love sheep.
Sorry about the last part. I do love sheep though.
Lindsay could you please delete it?
BAG- I think that is exactly what the radical Zionists want- they want a war so they can try to nuke millions of Arabs- their historical tribal enemy, in their version of the Hallal-ocast. Biblical revenge. Then, and only then, can Isra-hell exist in peace.
Only one problem- they’ll have to kill ALL the Arabs and Muslims, which is impossible, so this scenario would actually seal Israhell’s fate. Eventually, (and it might be decades later) one of their enemies WOULD try to take them out- in retribution.
Zio-Fascists are like the Born-Twice crowd (who are also Fascists, IMO), who wants the Apocalypse to come so they can be the first to get J.C.’s autograph, THESE TWO groups are the most dangerous on Earth- not the Arabs, Iranians, Chinese or North Koreans.
Good to know that the Arabs, Iranians, Chinese and North Koreans are such pussy cats and not dangerous at all.
I shall sleep more soundly tonight, safe in that knowledge.
On second thoughts, those are Mott’s opinions.
Maybe I shouldn’t feel so secure, after all!
BAG & Mott
“”I could actually care less about the Talmud, seeing as how most Jews aren’t even religious. “”‘
True enough. However some analysts view Israel’s actions as leading to one goal: Becoming the most dominant power in the middle east by forging their old empire form the Nile to the Euphrates. At the atomized level Jews might appear to be secular and non religious, however collectively one wonders if they aren’t working towards some demented Biblical prophecy.
Andy- “Fuck off and Die” is merely a more extreme way of saying “Fuck Off” here in the U.S. No personal threat is implied. “I wish nothing but bad things upon you and you ilk” might be a cognate.
Glad you were able to come up with semi-coherent sentences this time, (instead of the babble you offered previously). Easier for me to take apart, one by one.
“WW III, we’re in it.” No, we’re not. Anyone who thinks we are, or that WW III is inevitable, is insane. But it is that kind of thinking that could lead to a massive shit storm. Currently, I’m paying through the nose for gasoline BECAUSE OF ISRAHELL. Thanks!
Honestly, you come out with “Clash of Civs”? Is that all you got? This thing is hardly cutting edge news- came out in the 90s, written by a dead guy who was starting lose it. He got a lot of shit wrong in that book. Example: “China and the Arab/Muslim World will buddy up”. Never happen.
And let’s not forget that the Ay-rabs and Moo-slims wouldn’t be on their warpath if it wasn’t for the Zionist Project, and the fact that the U.S. treats the Mid- East like their oil-filled sandbox to shit in as they please.
“Israel ‘just happens’ to be on the front-line’” Oh really? And whose fault is that? Who put them there? It was an accident???
“What happens to us today”- Bullshit. We don’t live on their land.
“Israel protected the world from its own weakness”. ROFLMAO. Actually, the U.S. often use Israel as proxy and vice-versa. The U.S. didn’t want to do it- so they let them do it. They operate under America’s shield when they do that shit. Who are you kidding? The U.S. invades, occupies Iraq and Afghanistan for ten years- but they wouldn’t have had the balls to do that? Would have been done regardless. Because it was doable. Iran- not doable.
The day that the world thanks Misreahell will never come. I’ve got an Aerosmith song for you (and it’s not “Draw The Line”).
As Winston Churchill once said: “England and America are two countries separated by a common language.” It’s interesting to learn how you address each other to express your displeasure.
Personally, I inhabit a region where the expression; “may the fleas from a thousand camels infest your underwear” is in more common usage.
Speaking of babbling, I’m not sure that I can unravel all of yours. I understand that it is your wet dream for Israel to be wiped off the face of the earth by Iranian nukes. You shouldn’t get too excited. At the rate Iran is developing long range rockets, America would be next on their list. I imagine that there could be a fair amount of whining from those American left alive, about that.
World War 3 is different from the previous wars. The lead up to military action is currently being preceded by media mania and hackers in cyberspace. And as far as your gasoline is concerned, you need to complain to the producers and the oil companies. None of them controlled by Jews.
Regarding Huntington – If China’s current support for Syria is not “buddying up”- then what is?
What America did in Iraq and Afghanistan, it did for its own reasons. Much as you choose to believe it, Israel is not responsible for everything that happens in this world.
As for Iran – action is very doable; it just requires balls.
@ Mott
Indeed, the real threat isn’t some “Islamofascist” in Iran or elsewhere in the Muslim world, but nutjobs like Andyboy, as well as his treacherous co-ethnics who share his views living in Western countries.
I understand that your definition of “nutjob” is anyone who doesn’t see the world through your eyes.
I’m not the one trying frantically to develop a nuclear bomb in order to wreak havoc in the West.
Amy : “Sometimes I forget how few people get Star Trek references–I thought it was rather clever, anyway. ”
Sensors are picking up another trekkie! Intercept at maximum warp Mr Data
Shame. I was starting to warm to him. What would he have to agree to to be allowed allowed back?
I don’t know. He was so incorrigible that I don’t think he’s coming back. He’s deeply into rightwing populist politics, and it’s hard for him to shut up about the economic aspect of it. He keeps promoting rightwing economics, and he won’t be able to stop doing that. He did it endless times, and he was warned countless times. He’s hopeless.
@ Baruch
Sorry to say, but I find your attempt at irony somewhat pathetic. You were trying to be ironic, weren’t you?
Why do you persist in trying to blame Israel for whatever actions America will take over Iran?
I think that you attribute too much to the Israel lobby.
America’s leaders will make whatever decisions they deem to be in America’s best interests.
Should that turn out to be “throwing Israel under the bus” so be it.
They will simply need to explain and justify their decisions to the electorate, in due course.
I think that’s how democracy works in your country – doesn’t it?
We don’t have a democracy. We have ZOG – Zionist Occupied Government.
You agree with my assessment though, right?
Mott
Jeffrey Goldberg said the best way we could cure Michele Bachmann from Zionicitis (not my word) was to take her to Israel during the week of the international gay pride parade in Jerusalem. I was thinking that if we could expose secular Israeli attitude and sentiment toward the Christian right, we could ease them of their Zionist fervor.
GSG- I’m going to see Ilan Pappe speak tomorrow night. (I’m sure AndyBoy will love that- watch him come take the bait!)
There is already an outcry in the papers here- Zio-philiacs are calling him “Anti-Smegmitic”. My kinda guy!
Who is Jeff Goldberg? Sounds like my kinds Jew!
Enjoy your brainwashing!
Jeffrey Goldberg did chicken out when Tom Friedman wrote that op-ed, criticizing the republican candidates for pandering on Israel and lambasted W&M for embracing that clown Atzmon (which I have no problem with) but it was for the wrong reason.
Jeffrey Goldberg also wrote an article detailing how Jewish entertainers internalized antisemitism but tried to shift all the negative stereotypes about Jews, onto Jewish women.
I can’t get into Jewish human rights activists. Maybe if it were a Palestinian, I’d go out of sheer curiosity. But jews are so predictable. Except for dream boy.
Who is dream boy?
You tell him.
Mmm-hmm, Norman what’s-his-name. Finkelstein, is that the right Norman?
Oh yes Norman. Maybe I can get him to fuck me out of sheer pity.
So, in a few months you have the opportunity to vote for a different government.
Why do you have such a low opinion of your democratic processes?
We don’t have a democracy. We have a parody of a democracy along the lines of a classic Marxist critique of capitalist democracy – that it’s no democracy since the rich own and rule the system as a dictatorship for the rich. The US is a classic example. We have money based elections, and the US is ruled exclusively by the Rich, which includes rich Jews and other very rich people. The rich Jews have bought to the system to an extent, and they lobby the system on behalf of their interests such as support for the Zionist entity. The officeholders are all bought by Jewish money, and the result is ZOG.
“and the US is ruled exclusively by the Rich, which includes rich Jews and other very rich people”
So, it’s not a Jewish monopoly. Presumably, the Jews lobby for their interests, and the non Jews for theirs.
What kind of democracy would suit you? One ruled by the proletariat?
Simply because you don’t agree with the direction the elected government takes, doesn’t invalidate the democracy.
And I’m getting a bit nervous now, since I’m not sure how far I can go in discussing American politics.
The writing is on the wall my friend.
And what is it stating, exactly?
You’re doing just fine Andy. Just don’t start promoting the Republican Party against the Dems and you will be ok.
Wouldn’t dream of it!
The religious conservatism of the Republicans frightens the shit out of me – and I don’t have to live with the results on a daily basis.
But you still didn’t define what kind of democracy you want.
Given the failings of many democracies in the world, I’m not so sure that benevolent dictatorship is such a bad option.
I guess it helps if you happen to be the President’s brother-in -law.
Andyboy will be ok here. I don’t expect any bans as long as he controls himself well, as he seems to be able to do as a mature man. He’s fundamentally a decent and mature person with good emotional control, so I don’t see him getting into ban problems.
“The religious conservatism of the Republicans frightens the shit out of me – and I don’t have to live with the results on a daily basis.”
Would you like me to send a memo to Pastor Hagee informing him that you do not share his sentiment?
I’m not sure that Pastor Hagee cares what I think.
I am aware of the support for Israel from Christian Fundamentalists, and this places me in a personal dilemma.
On the one hand, I welcome any support, even though I’m wary of the motivation.
On the other hand as a religion hating Atheist, I find all forms of religious demonstration repugnant.
But then I don’t run your country – or mine!
I want to get the $$$$ out of politics, and have elections that are not based on money in any way whatsoever. That means public financing of elections at the least. As far as whatever else we can do, I am not sure. I don’t support Communism for the US. But at the rate the fanatical hardline capitalists are running the country into the ground, more and more Americans will come to support some form of socialism. Right now, capitalism has its lowest favorability in the US in a long time, and socialism is showing its highest ratings in a long time. Among young Americans, a plurality prefer socialism to capitalism. I would define socialism very broadly here to include even social liberalism, which is on the rightwing of socialism but is socialist nonetheless.
“. But at the rate the fanatical hardline capitalists are running the country into the ground, more and more Americans will come to support some form of capitalism.”
Did you mean to say that?
Anyway, before rejecting capitalism as an ideology, you need to take a very hard look at what social democracy has done to European politics.
Apart from Germany, almost every European country is struggling economically.
As the oft quoted Chinese saying goes: “Be careful what you wish for”…….
I’m not rejecting capitalism as an ideology. My definition of socialism includes even social liberalism, which is even to the right of social democracy. It includes all of the political parties in the Socialist International.
Sounds like Andy is bashing social democracies in Europe and advocating right-wing economics to me. Tsk, tsk…shame…
@ GSG
I wouldn’t exactly call it a “sweet irony.”
More like an unprecedented historical abomination/tail wagging the dog situation.
As Pat Buchanan once said, the U.S. is the only empire that pays tribute to its satraps.
Okay, back to being BAG.
Was he referring only to Israel?
You ever going to be Gay Area Guy?
Just the very idea of him being Gay Area Guy makes me GAG on this hot dog in my mouth.
Why?
Why?
Sorry. The hot dog was way too long. When I read “Gay Area Guy” it got stuck in my throat and started choking.
How do you feel about me being Gay State Girl?
I love it. Makes me want to get down on all fours, press my mouth into the floor and chew deeply on my carpet. Could not have picked a better name!
Why does one upset you more than the other?
Chewing carpets is fun. Choking on foot-long hot dogs is a drag. Did that way too many times last time I went to Frisco.
I know that East Asia has stayed on good terms, with the Arab world, but I don’t think they ever expressed the level of admiration that Korean claimed.
@Mott
“Sounds like Andy is bashing social democracies in Europe and advocating right-wing economics to me”.
Wow, Mott! If you’re trying to get me banned again, you’re really clutching at straws. I didn’t know that you were that desperate.
What is happening in Europe is a matter of fact, not opinion. And, are you arguing that any system – other than Communism or Socialism – is de facto “right wing economics”?
If that’s the case, there’s not much room for debate about this subject on this forum!
You have to advocate something. You can’t oppose the welfare state on here. You have to at the very least support social liberalism and a decent, healthy safety net. If you’re not on board with that, well then you need to keep quiet. Social liberalism with a safety net is as rightwing as you can go as far as economics is concerned. Everything further right than that is bannable.
Amen!
Thx Bibi!
I shall desist from further comment on the subject.
I have no wish to trample on your, obviously, deeply held beliefs.
Personally I belong to the school of: “I may not agree with what you say – but I will fight to the death for your right to say it.”
Well – maybe not exactly to the death – but you get my drift.
We have had all manner of problems with rightwing trolls on this socialist website. We really don’t need them here. They clutter up the place and we usually have to answer their stupid rightwing arguments, and personally I am tired of arguing with them. I’m a busy guy, and I have a lot to do, and I don’t have time to argue with rightwing trolls.
There are about 100,000 other subjects that may be debated on this site, and frankly, we let all kinds of idiots, kooks, crazies, nuts and political fanatics comment on here with no bans. Personally I don’t like your hasbara at all, but it’s nice to have you on here as a foil for the others and to have someone to have some nice debates about the Israel-Palestine question about. Otherwise this place is kind of an echo chamber. At any rates, hasbara is not a bannable offense.
You have no idea the number of crap views that I find terribly offensive that I don’t ban on on this site.
Rightwing politics mostly of the US type is just something that I’m not willing to tolerate on here, and I don’t see why I should. There are like 100 million sites for that sort of thing on here. They can just go there and spout that all we want to. No one is censoring them with 100 million fora for their views. We are under no obligation to provide the enemy with any platforms here.
@Dota
I don’t consider every Israeli Arab to be a a ticking time bomb. Their situation vis-a-vis Jews and Israelis is usually on the political or social level.
As the saying goes in your country: “It’s only business – it ain’t personal.”
Mott’s threats, on the other hand, are extremely personal.
@Robert
I agree that FOAD is more of a wish than a threat.
I usually assume that if that is the level of intellectual riposte, then the other party has nothing of value to add to the debate.
Well, feel free to continue warning me if people are making threats or death threats towards you. I’m not sure what to do about that yet. Maybe I will have to poll the audience. But there’s a possibility we might not allow it.
I think the audience reaction could be interesting.
Maybe there will be a different result for death threats in general, as compared with death threats against me in particular.
I have previously written elsewhere that I am not a great believer in words ALWAYS leading to actions.
Rhetoric can only go so far. It needs the will of the individual or group to take action.
For me, the problem is that commentators invariably blame the words – as if the actions take place in some form of mindless vacuum.
For all the arguments against European socialism from American right wingers, Europe is still one of the most societially stable regions of the world. The few troubles that erupt now and then are from the religious or ultra-nationalist zealots – both right wing ideologies in their base essence.
In my personal observations of South East Asia, societies that lean towards free market capitalism put far less value on the human aspect of our existence as people while the socialist leaning societies are more tolerant and more humane. Nothing I could put in words would illustrate it better than a visit to region, especially South and North Vietnam. If you are a Laotian or a North Vietnamese, you are more likely to have a more dignified, sane and contended life than the Thais or South Vietnamese, who could sell anything, including their soul for the goodies that money can buy.
To Andyboy:
Apart from Germany, almost every European country is struggling economically.
Denmark, Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, and Finland are doing pretty well. All have a strong social safety net yet they have lower unemployment than the US.
The unified currency, the Euro is what ails Europe. Basically all of the countries in the Euro facing a severe crisis except for Ireland (which blew up it’s economy with neoliberal style housing speculation..) were historically noted for having weak currencies and high inflation. Being tied to a strong currency such as the Euro and turning over monetary policy has not worked well for the Italians, Greeks, Spaniards, and the Portuguese.
And can you name another five?
I would like to debate this further, but my contributions on this subject must, of necessity, be limited.
To andyboy:
And can you name another five?
The following 5 have lower unemployment than the US:
The Netherlands, Austria, the Czech Republic, Belgium, and Luxembourg.
All the of aforementioned have lower debt to GDP than the US. (Albeit Belgium is pretty close..)
Basically the countries in Europe that are facing the biggest problems are those that borrowed too much money. Ireland, Spain, the Baltic states had a large property boom. (The first two make the US property boom, which was mostly centered in 4 states look like a piker..I think a property boom also occurred in the Baltic states) In Greece the government (in collusion with Goldman Sachs..) cooked the books to enter the EU and has a sovereign (government borrowing..) debt crisis.
The US has a big advantage in that it controls it’s own currency and it’s currency is basically the world’s reserve currency such that countries that wish to continue to export to the US must buy our debt which effectively exports our inflation.
Ahh yes.. here’s a paper on the Baltic Real Estate bubble:
http://www.international-economy.com/TIE_W08_Hudson.pdf
So the countries worst hit in Europe, except for Greece, all had speculative Real Estate bubbles.
http://www.tradersnarrative.com/global-real-estate-ratios-show-extent-of-bubble-2066.html
Unfortunately, I cannot continue with this thread.
@GSG
What’s with the “amen Mott”?
What do you want to punish Israel for?
For existing??
Existing at the expense of others.
Historically, many modern countries came into being at the expense of others.
Why single out Israel?
Couldn’t have something to do with Jews, could it?
Well said. I’ll keep that in mind should Iran nuke your assess and the Arabs moved back in. I suppose the rest of the Jewish community would simply take it in their stride because nations are formed at the expense of others and so we won’t have to put up with Jewish whinning for the next hundred years.
Andy sez: “And as far as your gasoline is concerned, you need to complain to the producers and the oil companies. None of them controlled by Jews.”
Here’s why AB, and his cuntry, are “to blame” for the current horrible gas prices that are strangling the U.S. consumer and the whole U.S. economy as we speak:
If it wasn’t for Misreal’s presence, and its possession of 200-3000 nukes that are pointed at countries like Iran (which they deny having and won’t let anyone inspect), countries like Iran and others would have no reason to embark on the nuke weapon programs.
This conflict, which starts with Misra-hell, NOT IRAN, is what is causing the conflict with Iran, which is causing gas prices to go thru the roof.
Killing my bank account. So, now, AB can explain why he and his cuntry doesn’t owe us for BIG TIME for creating such trouble (which I believe was at the heart of the 1973 Embargo,which nuked the U.S. economy, and the 1979 U.S. Embargo, which led to all kinds of bad shit, like the Reagan being elected).
Pay up, AndyBoy! Is your check in the mail?
Do you wake up each day and wonder “what can I blame the existence of Israel for today?” And how can I express my thoughts in the most colourful language with lots of , none too subtle, spelling mistakes. Or maybe that’s just your level of English.
Anyway, the absurdity of your claim, as far as it possible to understand it, is that Iran has no hatred for “The Great Satan”, only for “The Small Satan.”
If you seriously imagine that the Muslim/Arab world will suddenly embrace America and Western style democracy once Israel is no more, you are in for a shock.
Of course, I might not be around to tell you “I told you so”, but I guess that will be the silver lining on your cloud.
I get more and more angry every day.
About?
Andy
I get really upset about Israel’s effect on the rest of the world, and how it drives the jewish diaspora into a tight spot. For some reason, I’m immune to the Palestinians, mostly because of how their movement is handled. I get more worked up when I see a sheep die than a Palestinian child.
That’s a very interesting last line.
Even I’ve never gone that far.
Anyway, if you’re uncomfortable in the diaspora, we really need well educated, secular, Atheist or, even, Liberal, Reform or Conservative Jews to help balance our population.
Feel free to join us.
From here you have more chance of influencing the direction the state will take in the future in defining itself than you will ever have from there.
I’m from an orthodox background, but very liberal socially. I would never try to impose my beliefs or lifestyle on anyone.
I can tell the Palestinians and their supporters have big plans for us all.
Where did I say I was uncomfortable in the diaspora?
I do believe Israel is finished. Relocate to a safer place and I’ll be your first settler.
I was referring spefically to the settlers massacring a shepherd’s flock. I’ve been relying on the alternative media on the middle east, but I do find the Palestinian supporters to be incredibly obnoxious, which initially turned me off. I do get fanatic about seemingly unimportant things.
Andy
You’ve really got to behave more maturely if you want more olim. Israel is an embarassment.
Well – you raise a few points, so I will try to deal with them.
Firstly, there’s no need to be defensive about the sheep remark. After all a sheep is a useful animal. It provides milk and wool that is good income for a small family. And, eventually it can provide the meat to feed them.
A baby is just another hungry mouth to feed.
Regarding your background – it really doesn’t matter because I’m not talking about imposition of will. It’s simply that, in a democratic society, you can express your point of view openly and try to persuade and influence others.
Or you can decide not to, and live with the consequences.
I assume the Palestinian plans you are referring to involve the eradication of Israel. Of course, the Muslim plans involve the wiping out of all Western civilisation – Jews first.
What aspect of my personal behaviour is affecting anyone’s decision to make aliyah?
Regarding your personal discomfort, it’s evident from what you say about Israel being an embarrassment. Our existence, and what we need to do to survive, makes you feel uncomfortable as a Jew in the Diaspora.
Since we will continue to do what is necessary for our survival, I assume you will continue to feel unhappy – until Israel is no more.
Then. I’m not sure what you’ll feel.
Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt you know.
Personally I’m more of a Tigris to the Euphrates person.
Hehe.
I would like to relocate Israel to a safer place and less Israelis will get killed and drafted and Israel can devote more money and resources to other areas and have relative anonymity. What is wrong with that?
Practicality for one thing.
The “down payment” might be expensive, but you would no longer have all those military expenses. You’re not religious, so I can’t understand why the land is so important to you. My family would be unwanted in your plans for greater Israel anyway.
And if you main concern is to counter the Haredi population explosion, why not bring in some non jews. Bring in some goyishe white South Africans and Rhodesians to Israel, and let the Asian graduate students settle down.
I don’t think that there is much purpose in pursuing your drift into fantasy.
As an Atheist Jew, I obviously don’t subscribe to the “God promised this land to the Jews” justification. But the reality of the historical and emotional connection of the Jewish people to this tiny sliver of territory is undeniable. Anyway, we’re here, and no-one else has a better claim to be here.
Of course, the Arabs have their narrative – but they also tend to indulge in flights of fantasy!
“Anyway, we’re here, and no-one else has a better claim to be here.”
At whose expense?
I think jewish nationalism is necessary because self segregation is nearly impossible in such a diverse and egalitarian society.
James Petras hasn’t spoken about the treatment of Orthodox women. I appreciate that.
He grants us a form of equality; equal culpability and for this I am grateful.
Maybe the hogs would find Phil and Cindy quite tasty.
God am I mean,
The problem with bringing in non-Jews to counterbalance the Haredim is that they would bring their anti-Semitism with them.
And those that were not, would have difficulty in not developing it.
It’s not easy living among so many Jews……
I thought it was to preserve jewish flavor, which could be easily countered by the fact that they would have to communicate in Israeli medium in order to adapt to Israel society. The religion apsect should not be a problem for you.
That Japanese graduate student who is in the process of being deported (to keep a jewish majority) originally came because he was pro Israel. He will probably leave as a fanatical anti semite, as Israel will not let him finish his degree because they are afraid he will meet a Jewish Israeli woman and spread his roots. God you are so fucked up.
“God you are so fucked up.”
What does He/She have to do with it?
And don’t you deport people from America?
You are going to screw yourselves up. You shit on your own allies.
Specifically?
You’re only going to alienate yourself further. You’ll hurt relations with those countries.
Do I understand you to say that Israel cannot deport people because it will disturb its relationship with their countries of origin?
Does that mean that any immigrant (legal or illegal), student or visitor with an expired visa, can have permanent right of residence here?
Whatever happened to the concept of sovereignty?
You can do whatever the fuck you want but you’re only harming your reputation within the international community.
” You can do whatever the fuck you want but you’re only harming your reputation within the international community”
Is this the same “International Community” that has been turning a blind eye to events in Syria for months.
That interferes in domestic issues when it chooses to, and ignores others when it doesn’t?
That doesn’t seriously give a shit about Iran’s nuclear ambitions – as long as only Israel is perceived to be threatened?
That condemns Israel, with a knee jerk reaction, to almost everything we do or say?
THIS International Community?
Don’t tell me that you now subscribe to the philosophy of “keep your head down and don’t do anything to annoy the goyim?”
You’re uselss to argue with.
“You’re uselss to argue with.”
Is that what we were doing?
I thought that you were giving your opinions and I was advising you of the realities.
How do you define a “useful” argument?
While your busy being dead wrong, Andy (you’re about 0 for 10 in just a few days), let me get out my red pen again. You really need to get out out that plastic bubble you live in, Andy.
“the same “International Community” that has been turning a blind eye to events in Syria for months.” No, they haven’t U.S. television is all Syria, all the time lately and the right-wing, Misrael -loving Fox TV has been pushing for US intervention in Syria. They’ve been doing this for over a year. This is turning a blind eye? That is a lie!
“That doesn’t seriously give a shit about Iran’s nuclear ambitions – as long as only Israel is perceived to be threatened?” Lie!
The U.S. media has been wailing about Iran constantly, for about the last two years. Again, the right-wing, Fox and the bloggosphere has been egging on a U.S. war with Iran, principally because they are supposedly threatening Misrael.
“That interferes in domestic issues when it chooses to, and ignores others when it doesn’t?” Since when has Misrael been influenced by, listened to, or even gave appeared to give a shit about the International Community’s opinion?
And since when is having an OPINION on Misrael “INTERFERING” ???. That’s some scary, scary talk, Andy! Also…If you look up “interfering”, you will see the a group pictutre of AIPAC. Hypocrisy doesn’t ever cross your synapses, does it?
“That condemns Israel, with a knee jerk reaction, to almost everything we do or say?” The U.S. media has been extremely pro-Misrael since I can recall. Why is evey dissenting opinion “knee jerk”? I developed my views over 40 years, after being RAISED TO LOVE MISRAEL. That’s “knee-jerk”?
More like, “Yer a jerk”, Andy. You make no sense.
The U.S. media has been wailing about Iran constantly, for about the last two years.
More like the last six.
One minor correction to your otherwise excellent rebuttal of Andyboy’s hasbara.
“It’s not easy living among so many Jews……”
Hear hear.
“At whose expense?”
As I said – the Arabs have their narrative.
That doesn’t mean that their claims have more validity.
Andyboy
Do you really believe what you say?
Do you?
Are your fantasies of having sex with your dream boy real?
Yes I do.
Are you just able to guard yourself from reality?
You might find these quotes interesting:
“All things are subject to interpretation. Whichever interpretation prevails at a given time is a function of power and not truth”. Friedrich Nietzsche
In a well known paraphrased dialogue with Socrates, Protagoras said: “What is true for you is true for you, and what is true for me is true for me.”
What is reality?
“The relativism which is not willing to speak about truth but only about ‘what is true for me’ is an evasion of the serious business of living. It is the mark of a tragic loss of nerve in our contemporary culture. It is a preliminary symptom of death.”
― Lesslie Newbigin, The Gospel in a Pluralist Society
Thanks for backing me up, Amy.
Amy, “preliminary symptom” is redundant and hyperbolic.
It is not redundant. Please look it up.
As to whether it’s hyperbolic or not–it depends on whether you agree with the statement in the quote. People who tend to ascribe to moral relativism themselves will probably find the quote has a “the sky is falling” feel to it.
Birobidzhan is cute. Almost like a Jewish candyland but it needs more people. Google image it.
@Amy
The serious business of living means facing up to the reality that, at least where historical narrative is concerned, there is not one truth.
Nowhere is that more obvious than in this forum, as you see for yourself.
@ Amy
What Andy boy has been saying all along is that might makes right. Since there is no truth, the more powerful party defines truth, in this case, Israel. Andyboy’s love of relativism has little to do with an intellectual fascination of post modernist philosophy. He’s just a moral coward using relativism as a shield to prevent Jews from being held up to any moral standard whatsoever.
I don’t have an intellectual fascination with post modernist philosophy, but, from what little I understand about it. it does seem to have relevance in our 21st century world.
But the strongest party defining the truth is not a new phenomenon. In previous centuries it was easier than it is today. Given the proliferation of “instant truth” via mobile media devices, the question of control is no longer relevant.
The problem is that Jews are being held to a moral standard not applied to others. Syria,Libya,Egypt,Iran,Hamas,Hezbollah and the Palestinians are just a few examples of entities not held to account as Israel is.
There is nothing wrong with Israel’s moral standards in relation to its neighbours.
I wish the same could be said of them.
Andyboy, the difference between Jews and other groups is that Jews, far more than others, put on this charade of tolerance, love of multiculturalism, enlightenment, social justice activism, etc, all while acting extremely tribally when push comes to shove.
Granted, the same could be said about certain white gentiles (particularly SWPL’s), but Jews take it to a whole new level.
So yes, I would agree that Jews to a certain extent are held to higher moral standards than most people (except for white gentiles, who are held to the highest).
But then again, they constantly brag about their morality and enlightenment, so that’s to be expected.
As Mearsheimer and Walt pointed out in their book, critics of Israel aren’t comparing it to authoritarian countries like China, Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. They’re comparing Israel to other modern, liberal Western democracies.
And Israel certainly fails tremendously when compared to other Western countries (and I dispute Israel being a Western country).
A Boy- So, here’s your “pro-Misrael” slogan: “Misrael: We’re Only Just As Bad As Syria, etc.”
And here’s the real diference between those countries: those countries are not comprised of alien foreigners who surreptitiously snuck in, usurped, terrorized and then ethnically cleansed the area only 55 years ago. It is absurd for Misraelis to even attempt to compare themselves to those other countries, none of whom are challenged for their very legitimacy.
You ain’t no Iraq, Egypt, Iran, or Saudi Arabia. Not even close. They have existed, intact, for thousands of years. Not like your joke of a country.
And, as oppressive as those country’s gov’ts are, they only oppress their own people. and usually do it with fairly broad support among thier own (until the shit hits the fan like the Arab Spring). They do not wholesale violate the rights of the people that were there originally.
There’s the key. People, countries have the right to govern themselves in a nasty way, if they prefer, until there is a popular revolt. They have a right to elect their own dictator. That is totally different than being governed by an alien, occupying force that arguably shouldn’t be there at all.
Your moral relatavism is truly bone-chilling. I do believe that the Nazis had more morality than that- they used a lot of moral relativism in theri arguments and propaganda, but in the end, did believe they were on a moral crusade, I believe. They believed they were right, and that there was a right and wrong (although they were nuts).
You Misraelis are somehow even scarier: “there is no truth- only yours”, etc.
No. No. Wrong. To hell with you, and that way of thinking. You outta be nuked just for that.
And no, that’s not my “wet dream”, as you claim. I don’t wish for that- its behavior like yours that will bring it about, though. Keep it up!
“”And Israel certainly fails tremendously when compared to other Western countries (and I dispute Israel being a Western country).”"
I think even freedom house dropped their rating a bit.
@Mott
“alien foreigners who surreptitiously snuck in, usurped, terrorized and then ethnically cleansed the area”
This is your calm and rational analysis of the history of the region over the past 120 years or so. Sounds a bit emotional to my ears .
I assume you have arrived at this conclusion from a deep analysis of all the historical data?
“They do not wholesale violate the rights of the people that were there originally”
Well, it all depends on how you define “originally”. There is no doubt that the Jews have existed continuously in the area, now called Israel, for many thousands of years. The Arab connection is far more recent.
I seem to recall that there was an indigenous population in your country who could justifiably claim that THEIR rights were violated and only a couple of hundred years ago. You have some plan for them?
“Your moral relatavism is truly bone-chilling”
If this is what chills your bones, better stay away from horror movies otherwise you could get REALLY frightened.
Regarding the National Socialists in Germany – I don’t think the issue was one of right or wrong. They perceived that the Jews were a problem and would have solved that problem by mass deportation had they found any other country willing to take their excess Jews.
The “FInal Solution” really came about only after it was realised that the world didn’t care what happened to the Jews, and it certainly applied the NIMBY principle with a vengeance.
I am not sure that morality was ever an issue for the Germans. They saw the Jews as a problem that had to be dealt with in a pragmatic way.
“there is no truth- only yours”
To which I might reply “and there is only YOUR truth”?
“You outta be nuked”
Well, maybe we will be. But if we are, you’ll be next. Prepare your bomb shelter now. I have.
@ BAG & Dota
“and I dispute Israel being a Western country).””
Funny how our neighbours always refer to us as a “Bastion of Western Imperialism” in a Muslim region.
We are resented not only for being Jews, but for our Western values.
The people around here don’t see us through your eyes!
@BAG
Well, I’m not sure how many Jews you have had close contact with, but how can you tar all Jews with the same brush?
For example, I am not a great believer in multiculturalism (so now you’ll call me a racist). I hate social justice activism and I am extremely intolerant of religion in any form. Enlightenment is probably a matter of interpretation.
When it comes to criticism of Israel, the question of comparison usually doesn’t arise. I think that our internal political and judicial systems are favourably comparable to any in the Western world – I could just wish for more separation between religion and state.
I don’t agree at all that Israel fails miserably on any reasonable basis of comparison.
Regarding our being a Western country – I answered that point elsewhere.
Try telling our neighbours that we’re not an island of Western values in a Muslim sea – or , as Ehud Barak once described it: “a villa in the jungle.”
No Andyboy Israel fails in everything and definitely does not in any way measure up to a “Western country”. Its a racist apartheid settler state that is more involved with the racial realization and supporting of a “white Jewish” group & superiority. I don’t think anyone has much problems with the Jewish religion but with the nature of the settler state of Israel and it’s Jewish denizens.
It is definitely not compatible or up to par with that of any Western political or Judicial system given the workings of that state.
I’m sorry that you have a problem with the existence of Israel – but it’s your problem.
Your perceptions are based on your emotions, and which media reports your select as confirming your opinion.
My view, from inside Israel, is not what you claim.
@Mott
What the US media has been doing has nothing to do with the actions, or, rather, lack of actions, of the “International Community.” They have a different agenda.
Given how this same “Community” tends to relate to Israel, I think we can be forgiven for taking most of their opinions with the proverbial pinch of salt.
As for your opinions “developed over 40 years” – you’re entitled to believe what you want. Whether those opinions have any connection to facts or reality need not faze you.
@BAG
The literal meaning of “hasbara” is “explanation.”- and that’s what I’m doing- explaining!
A Boy- So, what are all the sanctions against Iran? The U.S. FLeet in the Gulf? That’s doing nothing? Sure, because you want the whole world to go to war FOR your stupid little “cuntry”. When they don’t, that’s “doing nothing”.
So, the opinions of billions of people, in 130 plus countries all over the world, have to be “taken with a grain of salt”, because they don’t like Miserael. They’re the crazy ones, Andy!
As for me being “entitled to believe”, First- I don’t need a worm like you to tell me I have that right. Second, that’s such a stupid “non-point” that you really need to stop saying idiotic things like that. Stick to your idiotic statements, not idiotic non-statements.
It is no secret that for a country like Iran with its alliances and proxies (and oil), the present sanctions are meaningless. They are just a bit of political tap dancing around the real problem.
If America decides on a military option it will only be because it considers that to be in its best interests.
The “opinions” of much of the world are governed by self interest, a need for oil and a fear of Islam. In this scenario, Israel is considered expendable.
As for your last paragraph, it seems like a course in anger management would not come amiss.
So, “hasbara”, literally translates to “bullshit”, or “creative excuse”? Nice.
It is remarkable how even non religious jews still subscribe to messianic delusions of being at the center of the universe, and that the IC means nothing. Essentially A-boy insists that the goyim not paint jews with the same brush, but does not reciprocate that courtesy himself. It’s still Jew vs Gentile in his book. What does it take to shake the tribalism out of the jew? Even non religious ones.
What does it take to shake the tribalism out of the jew? Assimilation. But some would say that it’s a hopeless project.
My response to BAG was in connection with his claim that all Jews are the same.
I don’t consider Jews to be at the “centre of the universe” and I think that the pressure and assumptions are coming from non- Jews. Somehow, the Gentile world seems obsessed with Jews and/or Israel and studies every minute move and action under a microscope.
I have no problem with non-Jews if they are willing to look at things with an open mind. Unfortunately, prejudice tends to get in the way much of the time.
not worthy of a reply
@Robert
I’m not sure what is your definition of “tribalism.” You have a problem with a people seeking to preserve a culture different from yours? Does this problem apply to all nations, races and ethnic group? And if not, why not?
Do you really believe in the “melting pot” principle? It has only partially worked, even in America. And in the rest of the world, Nationalism is a growing force.
Even Scotland is seeking independence from England!
Just to be clear, I have no problem with Jewish tribalism.
My problem with Jews is that they hypocritically and disingenuously masquerade as progressive, enlightened, universal, multicultural, etc, under the guise of aggressive ethnocentrism/tribalism.