Latest News from the Bigfoot World August 2, 2011

Long, runs to 33 pages.

Stunning new leaks from the Erickson Project. We can now confirm the existence of a 45 minute video on the Erickson Project (EP). If it is ever released, it will go down in history as one of most stunning documentaries in the history of film. I know that this film exists, because one of my sources watched the whole thing.

First of all, the video consists of a number of interviews. There are interviews with Adrian Erickson, head of the project; Dr. Leila Hadj-Chikh, apparently the lead scientist with the project; Dennis Pfohl, head videographer with the project among other roles; and Dr. Melba Ketchum, who is running her own DNA project in tandem with the Erickson Project. The interview with Ketchum shows her sitting at a chair, working in her lab. The interviews make up about 3/4 of the footage of the film, or about 33 minutes.

The other quarter of the film, or about 12 minutes of footage, is made up of some of the most kick-ass, out of this world, knock your socks off Bigfoot footage that the world has ever seen. The closeup video of the young female Bigfoot in Kentucky we described earlier is part of the footage, but there is much more. There is quite a bit of other footage from the same Kentucky site. In addition, there is excellent footage, possibly on a par with the Kentucky footage, from at least one or possibly more than one other habituation site.

All of the 12 minutes of Bigfoot footage on the tape is excellent. Some of it was shot in the day, and a fair amount of it was shot at night with infrared technology. The night footage is also very good. At least some of the footage is on a par with the Patterson film, and some is even better. Chris Noel said the footage as a whole “will blow the lid off the whole field.”

Kentucky habituation site not the only EP habituation site. Keep in mind that the Kentucky habituation site, which we will now publically reveal as being in Crittenden, Kentucky, only 15 miles south of Cincinnati, was only one of 5 habituation sites that Erickson used for his project.

A photo Erickson's habituation site in Crittenden, Kentucky.

This is reportedly an excellent habituation site, and Bigfoots definitely seem to be using the area.

Erickson's habituation site in Crittenden, Kentucky.

Good DNA evidence in the form of blood and tissue and some outrageous, out of this world film, also came from this site.

A photo of purported Bigfoot blood and tissue evidence from Erickson's habituation site in Crittenden, Kentucky.

The footage was shot by a variety of different people. The EP footage itself, I believe, was shot mostly by Pfohl. Other footage was shot by residents of the sites. I know for a fact that the Kentucky residents shot quite a bit of superb video.

Erickson Project had many opportunities to kill a Bigfoot. We can now report that the EP says they had countless opportunities to kill a Bigfoot in the course of these investigations. Apparently they had high powered weapons that they were ready to use if they had to. But the team was staunchly anti-kill from the very start, and this position never changed. I am pro-kill myself, and it’s too bad they felt this way, as it could have solved this mystery once and for all.

EP wanted badly to tranquilize a Bigfoot. The EP also thought long and hard about tranquilizing a Bigfoot, as they had many opportunities to do that too, but they decided that it would be too difficult and that it might not even work.

First of all, you need to know the exact dose necessary for any given animal. Each animal takes a different dose and maybe even a different drug. There is no way to calculate the proper dose for a Bigfoot since we don’t have any subjects to test it out on. If you get the dose wrong, you could kill the Bigfoot if the dose is too high. Not high enough, and the Bigfoot won’t even drop, but it will probably vacate the habituation site and take all the others with it.

In addition, tranquilizers don’t typically drop animals right away. The animals run for aways until they drop. Surely Bigfoots will be the same. Now you have a Bigfoot that dropped down a few hundred yards away in the woods. How to get it out? And you will have some other very angry Bigfoots in the area to prevent you from taking out the body. What to do? At the moment, the tranquilizing idea seems to have too many problems. Maybe in the future.

Dennis Pfohl describes Bigfoot behavior. Dennis Pfohl seemed to be running the Erickson Project on the ground. I feel that he shot most of the EP video for the project. Hadj-Chikh probably shot few, if any, videos. In addition to shooting video at the Kentucky site, I also feel that Pfohl shot video at the Vermont site. He may have shot video at other habituation sites too, assuming that they exist.

In the course of the project, Pfohl got to know the local Bigfoots very well. He said each one had its own distinct personality, and he got to understand their personalities quite well.

Pfohl also said that the Bigfoots have a strange way of dealing with humans they like. They are playful, and almost seem to be playing little jokes on us a lot of the time. At the same time, they seem to be sending a message that says, “Let’s be friends, but don’t get too close.”

Like other animals, the Bigfoots come to recognize the sounds of various vehicles. If it is someone they like, they will do things like wood knocks when one of their friends’ cars shows up. At one site, a person the Bigfoots liked left the place, and another person took their place. This person drove a pickup truck and had a rather angry personality. The Bigfoots knew the sound of his car and avoided him.

Justin Smeja under investigation by the California Department of Fish and Game. In a previous article, Richard Stubstad describes how he and I undertook an investigation into the Sierra Kills by going to the site of the shooting west of Frenchman Lake, California. We spoke to the local Forest Service law enforcement officer, who had not heard of the case.

Then we spoke to the local Fish and Game game warden in charge of the area. He told us that recently two people had inquired about the Sierra Kills shooting. The first person gave them fuzzy details. The case went to his superior, who decided it was not worth investigating.

However, the second inquiry was more convincing. The officer told us that he had been given Smeja’s name, email and physical address in Sacramento. He said he was going to follow up on the case and try to talk to Smeja, but he didn’t want to waste too much time on the matter, as he thought it was nonsense. He was not sure if any laws had been broken. We confirmed for him that Smeja was the shooter.

Justin Smeja lying about reporting Sierra Kills to the sheriff’s office. We contacted the local Plumas County sheriff’s office and asked them if Smeja had reported the incident to them. Smeja’s name was not in their files, therefore, he had not reported it, as they have to make a report on every call. The part about reporting it to the sheriff’s is also part of Derek Randles’ official version of the story that he is demanding that we adopt. We respectfully refuse to automatically adopt what is essentially the killer’s version of a homicide case, sorry.

Justin Smeja continuing to lie about the site of the Sierra Kills. Smeja, who according to Derek Randles is as wholesome and upright as Mother Theresa, recently came to my site and chided us for not knowing where the Sierra Kills took place. Smeja said that he had never heard of Frenchman Lake or Dixie Mountain before I started writing about it, and neither had Randles.

This is apparently a lie. A source has informed me that Derek Randles and Melba Ketchum both told him that the Sierra Kills took place west of Frenchman Lake. Randles added that it was on the game refuge, then later changed his story to say it was somewhere near the game refuge. He did this in order to protect Smeja. Furthermore, when we revealed Dixie Mountain as the site of the shooting on a forum, Randles got very upset and told me to please keep the site quiet. This seemed to be an admission by Randles that Dixie Mountain was the correct site.

It seems that Smeja is trying to give us the run around regarding where this shooting actually took place. Previously, I was told that the kills took place in northern California on the Nevada/California border near a game refuge. The most sensible description of such a locale is Dixie Mountain.

Derek Randles had never been to the Sierra Kills scene nor met Justin Smeja in person. Derek Randles, who claims to have investigated this story inside and out, has never even been to Sacramento to talk with Smeja. Nor has he ever been to the Sierra Kills scene or talked to anyone in the area. Some investigation. Some investigator. Update: Derek Randles, Justin Smeja, a scientist, a biologist, two trackers and a cadaver dog went back to the scene just recently. The search was uneventful except for some footprints.

Justin Smeja’s driver completely hysterical after Sierra Kills, wants nothing to do with Smeja anymore. The driver of Smeja’s vehicle in the Sierra Kills shooting was horrified by the shootings. He was hysterical  and absolutely beside himself, especially after Smeja killed the juvenile Bigfoot. As we reported, the driver pointed his gun at Smeja and said if you kill another one of those things, I will kill you too. It was mostly due to the driver’s hysteria that the two abandoned the scene, but probably not after Smeja carved off a piece of the female Bigfoot’s thigh.

The driver was previously a good friend of Smeja’s, but now he has abandoned his friend, ended their relationship, and wants absolutely nothing to do with Smeja, so horrified was he by Smeja’s maniacal behavior on that hallowed and doomed fall day in the Eastern Sierras.

Psychic horrified by photo of Justin Smeja, felt he was “malevolent,” demanded that his photo be removed from her home. As part of our investigation, we visited a psychic who Stubstad knew in Truckee, California. We showed her Smeja’s photo. She stared at it for a long time, then said that he was hiding something, but she did not know what. She also felt that he was very protective of his family, and that his family had been threatened over this purported shooting.

She said he generated very intense bad energy, which she described as malevolent. In fact, when we left that day, she demanded that we take the Smeja photos with us because she didn’t want them in her house as they were generating extreme bad vibes around the house and making the house uncomfortable for her to stay in.

Bigfoot steak from the Sierra Kills had non-human hair structure. Unknown persons, possibly Smeja and Randles, are reporting that the hairs on the Bigfoot thigh slice from the Sierra shootings appeared to have a general nonhuman appearance in terms of their structure and characteristics.

Ketchum has an unfulfilled NDA with Tom Biscardi. It is interesting that the Ketchum Project people attempted to trash us as being associated with Tom Biscardi. Biscardi, whatever you think of him, has been an essential element of the Ketchum Project. Many times we needed folks to run samples from wherever to Ketchum’s lab in Texas. All of these illustrious Biscardi-hating investigators could not be bothered to do so. Only Tom Biscardi would step up to the plate, and so he was used.

Ketchum has an agreement with Biscardi to do the work on his own samples and to send him the results. She has never fulfilled her end of the bargain, hence she can be sued by Biscardi. However, Biscardi probably lacks money for a lawsuit.

The Bigfoot toenail in the Ketchum Project is from Larry Jenkins in northwest Arizona. This toenail, submitted to the Ketchum DNA project, was found by Jenkins at his cabin high up in the Arizona mountains near the Grand Canyon.

There do appear to be some Bigfoots in the area.

Jenkins is a Vietnam vet who lives with his family most of time, but also likes to go up to his cabin in this extremely remote area to shoot guns and get away from it all. One of my sources has been to this site and has seen a Bigfoot footprint in a streambed.

The toenail does not appear to be human. It is much too large, too thick, and has a sort of yellowish-black color to it that human nails do not have. Albert Ostman noted long ago that Bigfoots have blackish nails. The badly decomposed dead Bigfoot found by two Indian girls in Happy Camp, California, in 1965, also had black nails. This is why John Green felt it was a real Bigfoot, due to its consistency with Ostman’s tale.

BFRO has a possible Bigfoot skull. The BFRO has come into possession of a possible Bigfoot skull from Walla Walla, Washington. It is a small, ape-like skull, but it does not appear to be of an ape. It was found in the forest near Walla Walla. There is a lot of Bigfoot activity in this part of the Blue Mountains, the site of the famous Freeman film and Freeman footprints. I feel that the Freeman film is 100% genuine. Update: Skull has been shown to be human.

Another possible Bigfoot killing near the possible Sierra Kills site. While Stubstad and I were investigating the Sierra Kills case, we spoke with the Forest Service LE officer for the Beckwourth District of the Plumas National Forest. This is the district where the Sierra Kills may have taken place.

He told us that he had received a report of another Bigfoot being shot dead at Janesville Grade, about 20 miles north of the Sierra Kills site. The killing is said to have occurred about two weeks ago in the middle of July. We could not confirm this story in one way or another so we have no way of knowing if it occurred or not.

If it happened, the surviving juvenile or the surviving father from the Sierra Kills may have been killed. We feel that there was a male Bigfoot mate of the killed female Bigfoot, since Bigfoot single Moms are not common. If there is anything to either of these stories, it is amazing that two Bigfoots were reportedly shot dead within 20 miles of each other in the Eastern Sierra Nevada in California only nine months apart.

Reported Bigfoot sighting in Placerville, California, in mid-July. As part of our investigation, Stubstad and I went to a liquor store in tiny Sierraville, California. The American Indian woman there told us that there had been a Bigfoot sighting in Placerville only two weeks before. Supposedly, an excellent photograph was taken as part of this sighting. Placerville is about 70 miles southwest of Sierraville and 43 miles east of Sacramento.

We were unable to confirm this sighting one way or the other. One thing is for sure though. The northern Sierra Nevada seems to get a lot of Bigfoot sightings, especially in the summertime. Most are apparently not reported to Bigfoot organizations.

Erickson Project flat broke, out of funds. Although Adrian Erickson is a rich man, he has been running into financial trouble lately with his housing development in British Colombia, which is his principal business at the moment. Housing sales have slowed down due to the economic crash created by finance capital in the US (Wall Street).

Erickson had been financing his Bigfoot project, on which so far he has spent $3 million, on a revolving line of credit. For whatever reason, his bank is not willing to loan him any more money for Bigfoot ventures. Therefore, the EP is flat broke, and it is uncertain what major ventures they can do in the future.

Erickson to go down in history among the greatest of the greats. I would like to add that I think the EP’s best work is already behind them. Adrian Erickson and to a lesser extent Dennis Pfohl will go down in history as some of the greatest men to grace the annals of the worldwide investigation of the Bigfoot phenomenon. Erickson’s name will be up there with Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin, and he may even supersede them. Let us bow down before our Bigfootery Gods!

Melba Ketchum has mysterious benefactor who demands to remain anonymous. We made the error early on in our reporting of mixing up the EP with the Ketchum Project (KP). Although the beginnings of the KP are very difficult to describe and involve Ketchum, David Paulides, Erickson and Biscardi in various confusing, conflicting and hard to sort out roles, for a long time now, the KP has been a singular entity.

One wonders about the financing. Actually, Ketchum has a mysterious benefactor, who seems to be a relatively famous and very rich person, who is funding most of her DNA testing. This is necessary because Ketchum charges about $11,500 for full nuclear DNA sequencing. Obviously, submitters do not have this kind of cash, so someone is paying their way. If you heard this man’s name, you might or might not recognize it, because he is relatively famous. However, he wishes to remain anonymous, hence my sources would not reveal his name to me.

Mass confusion reigns about Ketchum’s DNA pricing. Some submitters have said that Ketchum charged them $200 for DNA sequencing of samples. The submitters were able to pay this. However, when I revealed that Erickson paid $70,000 for the sequencing of 6 samples, mass confusion broke out. We can now clear up the confusion.

Ketchum charges $200 for MtDNA sequencing. But for NuDNA testing, which is vastly more complex, she charges ~$11,500. This is why Erickson paid so much for his samples.

Ketchum cruelly fired of her best friends, lied and said she was “too slow.” Ketchum’s insatiable quest for all-encompassing power and glory in the discovery of Bigfoot seems to know no ends. We can now report that she fired a female geneticist, a PhD who did excellent work. Ketchum said she was “too slow.” My sources say that this is nonsense; the woman did excellent work.

The reason for Ketchum firing the woman are completely unknown, but sources said that she felt threatened by the geneticist because she does such great work. Ketchum is insecure and sometimes tries to get rid of highly competent workers who threaten her grandiose self-image and fantasies of unlimited power, glory and money. The geneticist was a close friend of Ketchum’s, and she was utterly devastated after being fired. But the geneticist certainly didn’t lose out on any paychecks. At the time, she was working for Ketchum for free!

Ketchum furiously trying to wiggle out of NDA agreement with Erickson. Sources say that Ketchum dislikes the agreement she has with Erickson and would very much like to get out of it. The reason is because there is supposed to be a press conference upon the publication of  Ketchum’s DNA paper, assuming it ever gets published.

At this press conference, Ketchum will unveil her DNA paper, and she will focus on Erickson’s 6 samples, which all turned out to be from separate Bigfoots. Other samples that tested positive as Bigfoots will be revealed “as an aside.” It will be difficult for Ketchum to do a press conference referring for the most part only to Erickson’s samples; this is not what she wants to do. The EP video will then be released in tandem with the DNA evidence. If Ketchum fails to hold the press conference as it is supposed to be held, she can be sued by Erickson for violating their agreement.

Matt Moneymaker using a fake name. In case you are interested in the details of this most unpleasant person, Matt Moneymaker, head of the BFRO, we can now report that Matt Moneymaker is not even his real name. His real name is Matt Johnson or some ordinary name like that. This profoundly abrasive clown apparently changed his surname to Moneymaker. Now what kind of a person deliberately chooses a name like that?

Moneymaker is a highly unpleasant person – controlling, dishonest, vindictive, mercurial, underhanded, possibly fraudulent, competitive to the point of pathology, and above all, incredibly narcissistic. He is ferociously competitive to the point that his personality exudes sheer poison, and he is determined that his organization be the one and only one that discovers Bigfoot. He’s Melba Ketchum with a sex change on steroids.

Matt often refuses to link to competing groups and often forbids discussion of them at his crazy website. For instance, all threads about the Erickson and Ketchum Projects are immediately shut down and locked with a snide remark about how they have had years of work and have never come up with anything. The forum is run by some of the worst forum Nazis in the field. Threads are constantly being shut down by Matt and his pals, and posters are banned all the time. I lasted a whole 2 hours on the site before I was banned, and I was trying to be good.

Further, Moneymaker is not even a practicing attorney as he implies he is. This is just more narcissistic bluster and chest beating. What he is is some guy who managed to graduate from Law School. Whether or not he passed the Bar is not known.

Since Matt took over the BFRO, there have been repeated mass exoduses of members due to his horrific personality. Although they do some good science, the whole BFRO enterprise is rather shameful due to being poisoned by Moneymaker. Matt Moneymaker is the definition of a toxic individual.

Tom Biscardi – hoaxer or not? After quite a bit of investigation, including an interview with Java Bob Schmaltzbach, I have concluded that Tom Biscardi is not a hoaxer. Java Bob went through a long history with me about the Georgia Boys’ fake Bigfoot body saga. It appears that both Biscardi and Java Bob were hoaxed by the Georgia Boys. Biscardi had no idea it was a fake. He was on the phone having Java Bob run tests on the thing when Bob discovered that it had a rubber foot.

It was then that that Java and Biscardi realized that they had been had. Recall that Biscardi forked over ~$50,000 for the fake dead Bigfoot. Why would he lose all that money if he was in on a hoax?

The truth is that Biscardi is not a hoaxer. Instead, he is a gullible, not particularly bright, narcissistic, showboating sort of guy who works as a Las Vegas showman. He believes anyone, so he gets hoaxed himself all the time. Biscardi also believes very much in Bigfoot, and he has 4 excellent daytime sightings and many more nighttime sightings. He has made some positive contributions to the Bigfoot field. In short, the popular image of Tom Biscardi as a hoaxer seems to be mistaken.

Biscardi does not have a good personality. He is a crass, vulgar, condescending, arrogant, egotistical and highly narcissistic man. Most people who associate with him for a while leave him because he is so hurtful. He hurts his own friends and even his own family with his callous remarks. Like many such types, he hasn’t the slightest clue about his culpability in these interpersonal scenarios. He has contempt for nearly everyone else in the Bigfoot world, who he typically refers to as bottom feeders.

Biscardi is not a Rhodes scholar, but he’s not stupid either. At best he has about average intelligence or so. He has an engaging, extroverted but brash personality.

Tom Biscardi the Wilt Chamberlain of Bigfootery. Biscardi lives in between the California Bay Area and Las Vegas, or, as a source says, “wherever he can find a loose woman.” Biscardi thinks he is God’s gift to women, and he is one of the wildest, most out of control and notorious womanizers in the Bigfoot world. One source compared him to Wilt Chamberlain. “Biscardi has a woman in every port,” the source said.

He typically can’t hang onto a woman for more than a year or two, but then he just goes out and grabs a new one. He has some grown kids from one or more previous marriages.

Tom Biscardi financially ruined Java Bob Schmaltzbach, left him out to dry. For a while, Java Bob hooked up with Biscardi on his round the country Bigfoot road show. Bob was paid around ~$1,000/month salary, but that did not even begin to cover basic expenses. They roamed around the country searching for Bigfoot, either staying in motels or staying with people who had seen Bigfoots and wanted investigations. Java left his wife at home and took off with Biscardi on this wild voyage, but the wife didn’t really mind.

It was wild and fun, but it drained Bob’s finances and eventually ruined his car. He ended up broke, with a wrecked car that would not even run. He was nearly homeless and had to move in with one of his kids for a while. He is now living happily in Happy Camp, California with his wife.

He is still hurt by the way that Biscardi treated him. Seems no one comes out of a relationship with Biscardi without a bit of damage.

Richard Stubstad not financing Tom Biscardi. There is a rumor floating around that Stubstad is Biscardi’s newest investor. It is certainly not true. I can assure you that, as I know Stubstad quite well.

349 Comments

Filed under Americas, Animals, Apes, Bigfoot, California, Government, Local, Mammals, North America, Northeast, Regional, Science, South, USA, Washington, West, Wild

349 responses to “Latest News from the Bigfoot World August 2, 2011

  1. You are awesome Robert! Keep up the good work!

  2. The news about the Walla Walla Bigfoot skull turned out to be human. I blogged about this a few days ago. http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2011/07/bigfoot-skull-in-walla-walla-turned-out.html

  3. Chullo

    Psychics, huh?

  4. Dano

    I’d like to sample-fuck a big strapping Bigfoot matron.

    • Maurice Cloud

      Excellent! But two things —
      1. Familiarize yourself beforehand with the nuances of the Bigfoot philological sense of things, utterances like: “Bite me!”
      “Grr!!!”
      “Don’t you ever shave?”
      “Give me head!”
      could conceivably have quite unpleasant consequences. And —
      2. Would you consider signing a release so that your remains might be available for study as trace evidence . . ? Otherwise, sounds great! Beast of luck!

      • Dano

        I would make her ropy, furry arm fly back and knock the jar of fireflies off the tree stump table.

        • Maurice Cloud

          Whilst reaching for her copy of the latest issue of ‘quatch Quarterly waiting for you to finish up . . .

        • unholy

          There is an old Home Grown Funnies story illustrating just such an encounter — quite entertaining. “Yeti, my love!” ….etc

        • Maurice Cloud

          Inter-speciel sexual congress — Mary had a little lamb, little lamb . . . Sometimes, d’ya think, homo sapiens just have way-y-y too much time on their hands, although . . . do we have an actual birth certificate re: Mr. Biscardi . . ?

  5. Maurice Cloud

    Robert, as always, many thanks for your tireless efforts on this! But on to specifics(from the bottom up) — Biscardi, yuck! While you are correct to establish the fact that he wasn’t behind that circus in Kentucky, he did nonetheless strut and shill all over the place for the morons who were. In light of this, as well as the additional behaviors you describe, does he really merit the(reflected) credibility the considerable mention, however unfavorable, on your site might be seen as bringing him . . ? Dr. Ketchum certainly appears to be shooting herself — presumably without Smeja’s rifle — in the foot, repeatedly! If the split with Erickson is as profound as you describe they should simply sever the connection, say “Sod the NDA’s!”, and each go their separate direction on this matter. Erickson could do himself no end of good by simply releasing the videos he has, which would carry with it, seems to me, the added benefit of generating some much needed income for his project. On her side Ketchum would then be free to frame the DNA any which way she wanted . . . if she gets around to writing up her research and getting every last little jot of stuff peer-reviewed that is . . . although that last bit would mean allowing other sources to bask, however minimally, in the bright glow of discovery. Hmm, might be a sticky wicket there . . . Dr. Stubstad, I am willing to pay any amount up to, say, eight dollars or so to persuade you to put together a proper organization to nail this down, one not structured around camouflage jim-jams, trail cams, and rifles. I consider you to possess the unique combination of insight and expertise capable of judiciously moving this matter along to its logical conclusion . . . Interested? Cheers!

    • Ketchum’s science may well be just fine, but other than that, she has been a total nightmare for this entire project for a very very long time now, I would say from Day One in fact. All of these people associating themselves with her are insane. None of them are going to get one red nickel out of this association with this Vampire Woman, and she will, crash, burn, rip off and shaft everyone who gets on board with her. At least that’s my opinion based on her past behavior.

      It’s really sad because Erickson, Dennis Pfohl and Leila Hadj-Chikh have conducted themselves very admirably in this whole affair. Team players all.

      I could tell you so many stories about this woman, but I’m not allowed to talk about it. I can’t count the number of people who have described her behavior as “appalling.” Her behavior has been so bad it will make your jaw drop so low it will about fall off your face.

    • Maurice:

      I’m interested.

      What now?

      Richard

      • Maurice Cloud

        Dr Stubstad, Rather than, as I reference somewhere above, a bunch of yahoos running around the woods in their camouflage jim-jams, trail cams, guns, and leaking testosterone, what about an organization similar in intention to SETI, to wit: an organization founded on scientific principles with the goal of making contact . . ? There may very well be, for all I know, groups like this out there, the EP, for example, sounds close-ish, but only “ish”. So. A few hastily thought through noodlings —
        1. The goal is contact, not blow one of the critters to smithereens for DNA study.
        2. An absolute dedication to openness and transparency. The degree of secrecy, paranoia, mistrust, and outright condescension toward public opinion that most extant groups display is stomach-crampingly offensive and, ultimately, counter-productive. No secrets. No NDA’s.
        3. A commitment to public release of all findings, evidence, etc . . . as expeditiously as possible.
        4. A non-hierarchical, non-militaristic overall structure, but one that still provides for clearly defined roles for each member in order to expedite fieldwork, findings, etc . . .
        5. An unconditional application of scientific procedure to the overall effort that would, in effect, function as the organization’s charter. E.g. — when considering sites for investigation factors such as global chaos(which is what global warming really should be called) must be taken into consideration. Why? With temperate zones being pushed further to the north and south Biggie F.’s environment changes coterminously.. Said critter as you know is highly adaptable, its prey, less so. As the apex predator(and forager) in any environment it chooses to be habitant in climatic suitability therefore becomes a determinant factor.
        6. Season-long field investigations at pre-determined sites.with teams of 4 rotating through on something like a 3 weeks on, 3-6 weeks off basis. Which leads to —
        7. 8-12 members.
        8. Minimal firearms, which, if used, are used only in self-defense.
        So. There it is. Piece of cake huh!? Cheers!

        • Tom Daramus jr.

          Sounds great. I’m not rich, but would gladly pitch in with what I’ve got- a couple jeeps, 30+ yrs outdoor experience, and the lifelong belief in this creature, stemming from a few experiences as a kid.
          I don’t care about money, fame or any of the crap these others are clawing for. I love adventure and a peaceful co-existence.
          If you ever get serious on this, hit me up.

        • Tom Daramus jr.

          PS – great article, but it is very disappointing to find out that so many of the people involved in this field are such a$$holes. As a ‘bottomfeeder’, I guess I resent that attitude towards us (the public) that is so prevalent. I, however, KNOW what I saw. And I’m NOT out grubbing money and whoring my name all over the media in a thinly-veiled attempt at fame and fortune.

  6. Pingback: The ‘Bride of Bigfoot’ Hoax » WeNewsIt

  7. Well that was a lot to take in. I disagree with your conclusion on Biscardi. I watched that Georgia fiasco from beginning to end, and he was on Fox News claiming he touched and smelled the body. He knew it was real. He may have believed the Georgia boys in the beginning, but there’s no way he touched and smelled that thing and thought it was real. He was in on the hoax. And let’s not forget the Happy Camp hoax. You should rent “Not Your Typical Bigfoot Movie” It features Biscardi and catches him trying to “fix” some evidence. One of the guys had taken a picture of a figure that looked apish. Biscardi arranged a radio interview for the guy and then told him to say the picture was recent. The guy felt uneasy because the picture was a couple years old. Of course the poor guy got caught in the lie and Biscardi threw him under the bus. It was sad. I felt really bad for the guy. He was just doing what Biscardi told him to do which was lie. You should really watch the movie and see if you feel the same way about Biscardi.

    The Melba bashing is getting a little stale. We get it. Your source doesn’t like her. Have you considered that your source might just be an asshole? For the most part, Dr. Ketchum has just let these attacks slide with barely a word in response. That’s certainly not the behavior of someone who is as paranoid and coniving as you’ve descirbed here. She seems to be conducting herself in professional manner.

    If nothing else, Robert, you’re keeping this interesting.

    • It’s not just my source. LOTS of people really despise this woman and the appalling way that she has carried on and conducted herself on quite a few occasions. She’s pissing off a LOT of people, not just one.

      I’m not really allowed to go into details about this stuff though.

      Basic theme is she wants to hog the show. It has to be 99-100% of the loot and glory about her and everyone else gets 1% or preferably cut out altogether. It’s been this way from the very beginning. As you might imagine, it’s not going over really well with the other folks involved in these projects. I certainly don’t blame them.

    • I think I am going to keep it up. She’s a power-crazed freak. I have never met this woman, but what I have seen of her behavior, she is just SICK. I hate people like that. It’s appalling, deplorable, sickening and shameful. It’s utterly lacking in civilized behavior. If what she’s doing is the American way, then fuck the American way.

      Would you want to be friends with someone like that? Would you even want to say hello to them. She’s a disgusting person.

      Now, as a scientist, she may well be very good. But as a human, I think she’s pure trash. Just my 2 cents.

      • Well, in the words of Rumsfeld (Sorry for using the ‘R’ word), there are known unknows and unknown unknowns. Dr. Ketchum is an unknown unknown at this point. She may be as portrayed here, or she may be the victim of unfounded character assassination by a group of researchers who don’t want anyone else providing proof of existence other than than their organization. No on knows because to her credit she’s stayed above the fray. BTW – I’m not including you in that possible scenario. Your reporting what you’re told. I know you’ve been catching some heat for these posts, but not from me. If sources came to me with this information, I’d probably report it, too. I may take a different approach and use the word “allegedly” ever other word, but it would still be very hard not to report it.

        Biscardi, however, is a known unknown. He’s been caught more than once hyping and doctoring evidence. He’s more interested in being the next PT Barnum than he is being the next George Schaller. No offense, but I have to question your judgment when you come to his defense and eviscerate Dr. Ketchum. If you’re that wrong on Biscardi, I have to believe you’re equally as wrong about Ketchum.

        Have you attempted to contact Dr. Ketchum for a response? It may be too late since you’ve made this so personal, but I think she deserves an opportunity to clear her name.

        • I know Ketchum and she has contacted me a few times. At this point, I am quite sure that she does not want to talk to me.

          Ketchum’s personality is not completely bad. But from the very start, there were large meetings involving Hollywood, legal matters and business ventures and cooperatives. Ketchum’s behavior was described as utterly appalling by numerous sources at all of these high-level gatherings. I don’t know if she lacks social skills or is a social retard (I doubt it) or if she simply does not care. I’m not at liberty to go into any more details here but she made a whole bunch of people really mad and mostly just outraged and appalled. I could give you names but I am not allowed to. You would recognize them instantly as they have become big in the field.

          On the other hand, even one of her harshest critics told me that he had a good relationship with her for several months and that she can be a good and fun person when she wants to be. He’s not a serious critic, but at the time he described her as a friend. He said it all fell apart when she got her Hollywood lawyer. Thing is, when she is in fame and glory mode she is utterly insufferable, but she’s not always like that. When she’s just being her regular self, she can be a very fun and pleasant person. He told me she is also extremely intelligent.

          If you saw what I wrote about Biscardi, I didn’t exactly go easy on him. Problem is that my main sources are Biscardi defenders, so that colors my perspective.

          This Bigfoot stuff is like gold fever. It really seems to be bringing out the worst in people.

        • One more thing, I am writing these updates in a mock National Enquirer tabloid type style, with a deliberate scurrilous, sleazy, rude, rumor mongering and sensationalistic style. I am doing it partly as a joke and partly to see if I could do it. I always wanted to change styles and write in different ways, to parody or imitate someone else’s style. Face it, most writers have one style. The very best can imitate or parody or take on new personas and totally change their style, like actors but with prose. It’s a mark of the best of the best writers, and I am trying to do it in part just to see if I can do it.

          Imagine parodying Hemmingway or Kurt Vonnegut, or Tom Clancy thriller style, or Steven King horror style. Wouldn’t that be hard to do? If you can pull that off, you’re an amazing writer. So I am challenging myself here to see if I can do this sort of thing.

        • Thanks for your criticism though. A lot of it is right on, and you are keeping me on my toes. I have changed my tone and content a few times based on your critiques. Thanks again.

        • Jean

          I do wonder if you realize how much damage you are doing your own credibility with this kind of approach; this is my first (and likely, last) visit here, and I’m not inclined to come back for more nastiness.

      • Obviously I’ve enjoyed your posts on this topic or I wouldn’t keep coming back. And judging by comments on various messageboards and Facebook groups, your detractors are coming back over and over again. It’s like that scene in Private Parts where they discover that the people who hate Howard Stern listen longer than people who like him just to see what he’ll say next. You’re doing something right.

        • Guy

          “It’s a mark of the best of the best writers, and I am trying to do it in part just to see if I can do it”.

          Enjoying your updates Robert but do the best writers follow a comma with the word “and”? Just saying..

          All the best,
          Guy

        • Actually, the use of a comma before the and above is indeed correct. That is because a complete sentence follows the “and.” This involves the rules regarding when to set off and, or, but, yet, etc. with a comma and when not to. And sometimes gets a comma, and sometimes does not.

  8. In my opinion, you are simply a shill for the Erickson Project. I have no further intention on referring to so-called ‘leaked’ information…basically because the actual parties involved with the Ketchum study are under a NDA. I have been informed that, up until now, ERICKSON IS NOT PART OF THE INVESTOR GROUP. For various reasons (which I will not get into), Erickson has not been in the loop (so to speak)…but he or his associates have been spoon-feeding information to you (Lindsay) in a campaign to somehow prove their legitimacy. Like I had stated previously, some of the information you are posting is indeed true…but the context and other important facts have not been presented (yet…but it will not be coming from Erickson).

  9. Ralphie Boy

    Very interesting insights into the latest chicanery in the bigfoot world. Let me make some psychic predictions of my own:
    First, the movie your witnesses saw may be released at some point, but it will not be the film your witnesses remember seeing. It will be shorter and more inconclusive. Instead of the dramatic close ups, the movie will be grainy, out of focus and badly edited.
    Melba Ketchum will never finish or present her paper. Her already discredited DNA lab will close. Samples will be lost or go missing. Any money put into this effort by backers will be lost. She will be hard to locate.
    David Paulides, whose research showed an innovative approach to bigfoot by using classic police techniques, will make heroic efforts to support and stand by his cohorts, unfortunately eventually he will be dragged down into this morass and discredited as well. Once he realizes it is a house of cards it will be too late. It will take a long time for him to disassociate from this scandal, and he might eventually leave the field because of it.
    Moneymaker (an actual, if curious name) will bullishly barrel through it all with the BFRO intact. Remember, there is always a fresh supply of willing volunteers. (aside- Are you implying Matt Johnson, the psychologist who saw the bigfoot while on a family outing, was actually MM? just wondering because you chose that name.)
    Biscardi will bounce back from it on go on his wild ride, and continue to further discredit this field by his actions and personality. Luckily for Biscardi, he will not care.
    So, at the end of it all there will be rumors, leaked informations, name calling, jealousies and threats and postings galore on this and other sites from would be scientists all the way down to sexual perverts (see above)
    And NOTHING will have been accomplished or proven.
    Remember this post when that day comes.
    P.S. Odd that the old comment was that a bigfoot body had never been found…now they seem to be a dime a dozen. Why is that, do you think?

    • HOLDMYBEER

      Ralphie Boy,
      What do your tea leaves say about the Sierra shooting of two sasquatches? What happens to the Olympic Project and it’s shooter-member?

      • Ralphie Boy

        Oh…the crystal ball is getting fuzzy…no!!, that’s a photo of Sasquatch’s fur trimmed parka sleeve. Or is that Ralphie Boy himself with a bad case of bed head? Hard at it since 2009 the Olympic Project has published a collection of photos that are in many ways the most embarrassing since EB’s. Ralphie doesn’t need to be psychic…all he has to do is take a look the Olympic Project website to predict it’s future. But wait, I’m having another vision…The two sasquatch who were killed were levitated by ETs into the caverns beneath a mesa on the Rez, leaving behind only a greasy chunk. Taken to Melba Ketchums DNA lab, the chunk will be found to be gristle from MM’s flabby behind. Disappointing.
        Did the shooting really take place?
        Ralphie”s Indian Spirit Guide shakes the magic eight ball and says, “Probably Not!”
        What will happen to the Olympic Project?
        The website will never be updated, the “definitive” photos will never be taken, and someone will have to go into town to buy more whiteout, to draw “track outlines” with. The bottle of white out will put the Olympic Project so deep in the red that investigations will crawl to a halt. The boys will head down to their uncle’s place, because they know he’s got some cold ones in the fridge in his garage.

  10. Ken Wilson

    What the Hell…… will someone at least release one picture of the supposed Kentucky Squatch so I can go on with my life.

  11. bones

    Somehow, or other- Robert your literary adaptations if this full scale Cl—–F— have once again caught my interest.. Interesting pot stirring methodology you have there. Im not really all that interested if they can prove this or not, Because it would appear the trip and not the destonation, are in fact, more entertaining.
    Keep at it, and for the record it -would seem Raplh and Ken have it about right.

  12. Ramon S.

    I don’t think so. The destination of this exploration would for once definitely be a lot more salient than the journey. So much pointless speculation. For what? To appease the skeptics! Like Mr. Lindsay has already pointed out on previous posts they will never be appeased. I want this to be out in the open like all the others knowers and believers. But like most other realist in that have posted nothing will probably surface relevant to this conversation. And you spelled destination wrong bones. :P

    • Bones

      Ah , Raymond- thanks for the spell check.. Yes Im a skeptic, but also an optimist. I predict-sooner or later and completely by accident the mystery will solve itself. How? By examining an animal we already know exisits.
      Im suggesting here that due to the histoical volume of sightings of youre subject; It is possible by the sheer mass of statistics, that they exisit.
      How do we prove that?.. So far we can’t. But we can compare a known creature, say -a Moutain Lion, (one subject in particular) to give us model to expound on in our effort establish a foothold for our theory of Bigfoots existence.
      Case in Point, Minneapolis Star tribune (startribune.com) Dated June 27th 2011. “this big cat logged impessive mileage” a remarkable case for biology and science getting soundly trumped by Nature.. When reading the article draw youre own comparisons to the “Bigfoot conundrom”.
      And Ray feel free to spell check this for me. as I am a bit of a Gorilla at the keyboard myself.

      existance,
      I refer you to the Minneapolis Star Tribune(startribune.com) dated July 27th 2011. Article;” This Big cat logged impressive miles” Ins hort it describes a remarkabke journey from the Black Hills of SD to its untimley

  13. unholy

    Why is the Bigfoot speculation so filled with nonsense? Two were supposedly shot and all that was obtained is a slice of flesh? Yikes. …and now its all just talk.

    And on the Kentucky bigfoot, its habitat location was freely given? Anyone actually care about these critters, assuming they exist?

    Well, no reason such a beast cannot exist, as it forages in the night, uses land man doesnt care much about, and feeds like bears, which are doing just fine these days.

    To “prove” it, though, you need a real body part, I think. The DNA sequencing sounds a little controversial, just from the personalities involved. Video wont do it — anything can be faked nowdays.

    But keep reporting — who knows.

  14. I have seen the pics of Carmine Tom standing at the freezer with the two half wits from Georgia. This took place LONG before the press release. He knew full well what was going on. Just as the failed pay per view of the BF in a cage. As far as the other tragedy’s…….in the end….the truth will come out. It will either be the greatest find of all time…..or like every episode of Monster Quest…..”inconclusive.” I am betting on the later

  15. I will ask Java Bob to get onto this blog and respond to your assertions, because he was THERE.

    I realize a picture speaks a thousand words, but you have the basic facts wrong. Biscardi has his faults — no lack of these, to be sure. But hoaxing isn’t one of them.

    On the other hand, he’s easy to BE hoaxed. For example by the Georgia Boys.

    Richard

  16. I am intamately familar with both of the issues you spoke about. I was with Tom during the “Stage Coach” incedent and I also was the team leader that picked up the “Georgia Hoax” freezer.
    As is typically the case, the truth, and what has been widely discussed on many of the blogs, is quite differant.
    In both cases, from my personal experiences, the only thing I witnessed that could be faulted to Tom Biscardi was his being way to excited and emotional, about the possiblity of finding the real thing. That passion has, on occassion, made him override his common sense.
    Tom may be a lot of things, but in my experience, he is not a hoaxer….

    Tom and I do not see eye to eye on many things, but after spending more than five years in the field with him, I can tell you that I never saw him hoax anything. I have seen him over dramitize many things… after all he is a promoter by trade, However, he is passionate about “Bigfoot” and that passion tends to override his common sense.

    • No offense, but Biscardi’s actions and own statements suggest otherwise From a Fox News Interview:
      Biscardi: … The freezer had broken and they showed me the creature… I actually prodded it to see if it’s real and my God, it’s there

      Later in the interview:
      Reporter: You’re telling me you’ve laid your hands on this thing and it’s real.
      Tom: Yeah.

      No one with even less than average intelligence could have prodded it and put hands on it and thought that thing was real! He may have fallen for the GA boys schtick in the beginning, but once he saw it in the freezer much less touched it, he became a willing participant in the hoax.

      Here’s the Fox News interview if you want to see for yourself. http://youtu.be/9RrYyWY3vD4

  17. Thanks, JB (= Java Bob). Judging from the exchange between Lindsay and “Guy”, above, about mere commas no less, I hope folks don’t get hung up in your occasional spelling typos: “intamately” instead of “intimately”; “differant” instead of “different”; “dramitize” instead of “dramatize”. Therefore, folks, look at what JB MEANS, not his spelling or commas. Biscardi — well, one never knows for sure what going on in that head of his — let’s call him the “showman” for short. But JB — you can rest assured he is an honest man. I know him well and I speak to all of you from personal experience.

    Personally, I didn’t know either Biscardi or Java Bob until the fall of 2009–long after the above incidents. My main issue with Biscardi can be summarized by my oft repeated statement to him: “Tom, if it sounds to incredible to be true, it probably is. Half or more of the folks calling into your show are phoneys.” [I hope he understood that phoneys = frauds or delusional.

    Richard

  18. Is the Erickson Project requesting websites to delete the Bigfoot toenail picture? Check this out: http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2011/08/erickson-project-cracking-down-on.html

  19. R.W.:

    Consider the part of your email where you use the phrase “average intelligence”. Add to that no small portion of an overstatement based more on wishful thinking than discerning facts, and there you have it.

    Biscardi was definitely NOT in on the hoax; he was hoaxed by NOT doing any “due diligence”. In other words, he was outsmarted.

    In actual fact, I kind of doubt if he really “touched” it without ice in-between. Only JB can answer that one. Again, I wasn’t there. FOLLOW THE MONEY and you should be able to fill in the blanks — with average or slightly over average intelligence.

    You simply have to see “Anatomy of a Bigfoot Hoax”. Probably the newer version is the best, but I’ve only seen the older version.

    Richard

    • We’ll have to agree to disagree. It seems obvious to me that TB perpetuated a lie. You should watch “Not Your Typical Bigfoot Movie” where you can see TB encouraging a fellow researcher to lie about a picture.

      • You’re right, it’s crazy. Of course he wasn’t in on it.

        He did touch it and smell it though. The thing was covered in ice, so I don’t know how close you could get to it. But he reached in and touched it, and yes, he did smell it too. It was an ok fake. The thing was filled with dead animal parts, so at a cursory glance, it could have fooled you.

  20. Bigfoot man

    You are spot on about Matt Moneymaker ! thanks for keeping it real!

  21. I was there… you have your opion based on what ever you like. All I can tell you is what I observed in real time, and my opinions based on my real time experiences. I am not here to support Tom Biscardi, I am only here to share the truth as I know it. As soon as I called Tom and told him that we got to a foot and it was rubber…. Tom instructed me to call Fox News and let them know what we found. He said they are who we contacted when we thought we had the real deal… it is only fair to let them be the first to know. You can see part of the resulting interview on youtube at this link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMhtYTruOxAened

    • My only problem is that my opinion is based on Biscardi’s own statements. He said he was there. He went to the location where the BF was shot. The freezer thawed and he prodded the creature to see if it was real. He even mentioned the foot, but claimed it was real. It sounds like he went on TV, claimed to have the real deal in the freezer and then left the dirty work to you by making you contact FOX News and tell them it was fake.

      You and Richard seem like perfectly nice guys. From an outsider looking in, it appears that you are being played by Biscardi. He’s trying to get you and some others online to rehab his image. I don’t say this lightly – He is bad for the BF community. It’s your business, but my advice is to stay as far away from him as possible.

  22. No, the Erickson project has nothing to do with the toenail picture whatsoever. Nor with the toenail location habituation site.

    The toenail and the habituation site are both owned by Larry Jenkins, a good friend of mine. I have personally visited the site, in fact, and stayed for several days as a guest of Larry.

    One of his other friends (not named here), not from the Erickson project, told me he was “in control” of the toenail and all pictures thereof. Larry Jenkins told me otherwise, so I have posted the picture(s) with Larry’s blessings. I have many other pictures from Larry as well, some of which are pretty good and I may eventually post.

    I truly believe that Larry Jenkins did not hoax all of his stuff. See the various postings of the approx. 5 foot stride length bare footprints with a mid-tarsal break, for example.

    End of story.

    Richard Stubstad

  23. Who is Ralphie Boy? How can I contact him?

  24. Just a question,
    I was wondering if anyone else was thinking about the scientific methods and chain of evidence required to prove the samples are legit from the reported Squatchchops (Dna samples) taken from the 2 alleged dead Bigfoot? Perfect Dna testing can be done but does it mean a damn thing if the samples were not documented and collected properly? Does the fact that the guy that claims to have killed them is less than credible? Does it bother anyone else that they don’t have the bodies and the samples were taken off the ground were the Bigfoot were allegedly killed? Does anyone else find that convenient? Will any of these questions mean anything to the scientific community who will decide in the end to say yes or no to the existence of Bigfoot.

    I believe they all will and nothing shocking will come of this sideshow.

    • ws

      DNA can’t be faked. If the purported samples from the shooting match others from around the country (which some have quietly suggested) and the DNA tests out somewhere between man and chimp, that’s big news. Denisovan is a new member of the genus Homo identified through DNA from a tooth and a finger bone. Maybe someone can enlighten me, but how is this process any different?

  25. Please understand, I do not want to sound like I am trying to justify Tom’s actions or stand up for him. I am only attempting to share my observations. I have to stand by my statement that I have never seen him attempt to hoax anything. As for your statement about seeing for myself in Dallas Gilbert’s movie…. I contacted my old friend Dallas and asked him, (because I am open to any possiblity about Tom), but Dallas said no, he was never asked by Tom to hoax anything???? It seems that the people who have worked with Tom, (most of whom, do not like him), have never seen him attempt to hoax anything either… but the people who follow him on blogs or through the extremes of the media have a different opinions? You are entitled to your opinion, but in my experiences, I cannot support your opinion with any facts?.

    • To be fair, the scene didn’t involve Dallas in the film. The incident I’m referring to is where Biscardi tells Wayne to claim a photo was recent for an upcoming radio interivew. Wayne is hesitant because the the photo was taken a number of years earlier, but he’s more or less bullied into making the statement by Biscardi. When Wayne is caught in the lie during the interview, Biscardi bails on him and leaves Wayne twisting in the wind. It was a sad glimpse into how Biscardi tries to manipulate evidence to fit his narrative and put himself at the center of the BF world. It’s the same behavior he displayed during the BF in a freezer ordeal. When he got caught, he left all his cohorts twiting in the wind.

  26. I can only suggest that you investigate that incedent yourself and see if it matches your conclusion. Wayne was on the radio show you refer to and he messed up. I know Wayne and that is not at all uncommon for him… the radio announcer jumped on the incedent and tried to discredit both of them… I personally investigated that particular sighting and photograph. I personally heard the radio show in question, I know both Wayne and Tom quite well. I personally have a different opinion about that whole incedent.
    You are certainly welcome to your opinions, but I can only suggest that you attempt a little due dilegence. You may be right, but even as close as I have been to the examples you give, I still cannot see it. I am not arguing with you, I am only giving my opinions based on first hand knowledge. I could be wrong, but as of this time, I have never seen anything that indicates that I am.

  27. R.W.:

    The problem I have with your posts is this: You seem to have a pervasive and overriding agenda against Biscardi (not entirely unfounded to be sure, but quite unhelpful from the goals of most of us on Robert’s blog here).

    Folks have also made the same mistake with Roger Patterson. They have harped and harped about his personality and absolutely terrible business acumen and his long legacy of unpaid debts, all to avoid really working for a living.

    In the dust of such attacks and agendas is left the legacy of the sasquai: Do they exist or not? If both Biscardi and Patterson believe(d) they exist, how does that belief make it helpful to make a hoard of personal attacks on such folks? How does that make at least some of their observations and “encounters” hoaxes? Was the Patterson film a hoax? Were some of Biscardi’s data also hoaxed, because obviously the George Boys initiated a hoax? The answer is: We simply don’t know for sure in each and every individual case.

    That is why I am also on a mission of sorts myself, as is Java Bob: To establish, once and for all, whether or not these creatures actually exist notwithstanding the plethora of hoaxes and misidentifications (as JB says, “not everything that goes bump in the night is a bigfoot”). I became interested as late as 2009 simply because I realized we had a new tool at our command — DNA. If the Patterson film had been accompanied by some DNA evidence (of course it wasn’t, since that science hadn’t even been invented by 1967), we could have established once and for all whether Patty was the real deal or not, regardless of the crappy personality of Roger Patterson himself. Get over it. We cannot use that “data point” for anything conclusive.

    What we need to do now, R.W., is stop getting hung up in all the bad blood that exists in this bigfoot genre and simply accept that it is there and it won’t go away. With or without Biscardi. Why bother with him? Why bother with Roger Patterson — he is long-since deceased anyway?

    We need two things now: some direct evidence in the form of films, pictures or specimens (of sorts) of the sasquai, and some well-vetted DNA evidence that goes with these pictures or film, etc. This is exactly what JB, Adrian Erickson, and even Biscardi and others provided to Dr. Ketchum even they none of them actually gathered up the DNA samples themselves. That’s exactly what we need.

    We don’t know about the whereabouts or status of the Ketchum study, because it is extremely secretive and has become a matter of an adversarial approach rather than pure science. Since this is bound to hinder the actual, universally accepted “discovery” of the sasquai, another parallel study is needed along the same lines. But without all the bickering and back-stabbing and the “me first” attitude that currently swirls around the Ketchum-lead study.

    That is what I’m working on, sir. Can you help and set aside all of the personality and integrity issues for a change?

    Thanks,

    Richard Stubstad
    Unaffiliated with any Group or Organization re. the sasquai.

  28. We’re beating a dead horse at this point, and I’m clearly not getting my point across. I’ll say it definitively in this post and leave it at that. My opinions of Biscardi are not based on a belief. My opinions of Biscardi are based on his own actions and statements. In the case with Wayne, Biscardi told him to lie. It’s on camera. I watched the film. I saw it. It’s there for anyone else to see. Those listening to the interview at the time would most certainly get the notion that Biscardi was hoodwinked by Wayne because Biscardi disavowed any notion that he knew of the discrepancy in dates.

    The various interviews with Biscardi during the BF in a freezer episode is really all the evidence you need to know about the man’s character. I don’t think I have to keep defending my statements on that.

    I don’t blame anyone standing up for a past business associate or old friend, but I urge you to not let your personal feelings and involvement get in the way of the facts.

    I wish you both well.

  29. Ken Wilson

    As a long time believer in Bigfoot my Sister-in-law called me with the news that a bigfoot body had turned up in GA and it was being reported on respected news channels I was surprised that I was a bit sad although vindicated in my belief. As soon as I heard the name Tom Biscardi I told her that the whole thing was a fake. As it turns out it was a really bad fake bigfoot. To believe that Biscardi thought that the body was real is akin to eating bologna and believing that it was a Kobe steak. He is a hoakstser who makes me the target of ridicule as a believer. I am cautiously optimistic about the Erickson project as I live mere miles from the frasier woods, but as time goes on with no “proof” I am more sceptical.

  30. Ken Wilson

    Skeptical too.

  31. anon

    Ralphie Boy: Your post on “how it will all end” sadly gets top post tips from me. I can see it ending that way. We have seen it end that way many times over. On the one hand, how sad. Sad on so many levels, from Government secrets to the human culture of greed.

    On the other hand, how great! How great thier lives could remain in mystery and we cannot Judge just what rights a Sasquatch has or how many is the legal limit for harvest. And so they will remain
    Homo indomitus…
    untameable man, man outside the law….

    Yes Robert: “Bigfoot Fever:” is real, identify it and excise it. Enthusiasm, even slight obsession is Okay….. but not the Fever…it reduces humans to beasts.

  32. Humans are already reduced to beasts. Accentuated by a holier-than-thou attitude, giving them an excuse to be even closer to beasts in the name of the Sacred.

    The sasquai, in that light, are far more emotionally and spiritually developed than we are.

    “Harvest”? Huh?

    Richard Stubstad

    PS: Stop worrying about Biscardi. It is what it is, whatever that is. It just is neither here nor there, frankly. Another beastly act is to worry more about our fellow humans (for better or for worse) than the “lowly” sasquatch.

  33. Well I will say this I am a believer and personally until proof and proof is a dead Bigfoot this will never have a resolution. I have purchased a thermal scope my goal is to hunt the animal. If I kill it my goal will be to enact laws to protect this animal. If these people would release this info that would end the Bigfoot dispute. There is a place in Va about a hour from home I know I could kill one but it has to female and I could never forgive myself for killing the babies mother. A male head shot with a 308 yes.These are not stupid animals they are more human than anyone would like to admit and would prefer to keep their distance from humans and live their lives in the shadows which isn’t a bad existence I think. But until it is proven I feel science is the best way to protect there existence and protect them from us the human race cause we as humans destroy everything we touch. I wish the film and DNA results would be released because personally I won’t have to do it. That is why I have purchased a thermal scope in hopes of killing the male and trust me the world will know and all this stuff I have read about the video and DNA won’t mean anything then. This Moneymaker is a total joke anyways and needs to get off his high horse and look in the mirror for the fake he is. Mark my words when the opportunity shows itself I will go out of my way to kill and then protect these humanoids. I am not interested in 15 minutes of fame just to prove there existence.

    • unholy

      LOL … go for it, David. The Scientific side of this issue is crippled by the fact that “science” isnt in fact very scientific, and only allows publication on existing animals, and doesnt readily fund investigation into unknowns. Thats not science, its dogma. The unknown is exactly what science has always looked into.

      So a corpse, and the media = something that cant be ignored, faked, belittled, ridiculed, etc.

      However … I strongly suggest that if you kill one, you get a pair of pliers and pull a molar. Then get a hacksaw and cut off a foot and a hand, and hide these away, on ice. Then call the media. The corpse might be seized and secreted away — but if that happens, you will still have the molar, a foot and a hand, as proof.

  34. The medical doctors in the Nazi death camps that worked for Bayer were killing people in the name of science… With the DNA evidence that has been gathered so far by Melba Ketchum, Richard Stubstad, and many many others… we know that “Sasquatch” is most likely a type of unclasified human. The Nazi’s tried to make people think that the Jews were not quit human either…. but those of us who are sane no better…. With knowledge we have today and the science of DNA as stong as it is today, killing something we already know is human is murder… pure and simple… even if you think you are like the Nazi death camp doctors and convince yourself that you are murdering people in the name of science…. Murder is murder… Even in the name of descovery or science. You can no longer claim that you didn’t know or that you did it in the name of sience. The law and those of us who would clamour for justice will not sit idley by and allow it. As we saw in the Nurnenburg trials … those excused just don’t hold up. Wake up and see that the world we live in and the laws we live by do not make exception for extremeists when it comes to murder… even if the people murdered don’t look like us, live like us, or associate with us…. If you kill a human, even an unclassified human… you will go to prision! The Just something to think about…. If you need too… get a DNA sample, but not a body…. Be scientific, not barbaric! Use your brain and not your gun… No more excuses or bravado.. No more excuses… You can no longer say you didn’t know…. To many people have shared their findings for you to claim ingorance… it is all over the web and even in published artilcles…. God gave you a brain… don’t insult God by not using it!

  35. I appologize for all of my gramatical errors above… but I am angry and emotional about this…. I cannot sit idolly by and listen to people discuss the idea that killing people who are not like us is justifiable…. It is not!

    • Well a little dramatic comparing me to the Nazis in the camps is out there but we all have opinions. If there is all this evidence that they do indeed exist where is it. Well I will give you one real good idea it disappears because of the religious implications and what it says about the world we live in. If I am lucky enough to be in the right circumstance and make the shot it won’t be like the Nazis. My way there will be no suffering or torture and I won’t be imprisoned for proving their existence it will be the scientific discovery of the century. If I can do more in 1yr for the protection of them and get laws passed in all 50 states to prevent anyone from killing another one well I will be proud of what I have done. Anyways you have the right to your opinion and me I have the same right. You don’t have to apologize for what you said I like a person who speaks their mind that’s a person I can respect. There might be a lot of people who would criticize me for the way I feel but until this is done in the name of science they can never actually be safe. Like I said we as humans we destroy everything we touch. If I can do something to help preserve this species I will be proud of it. Just remember this isn’t war I am the one who has to live with it. As far as the religious folks who will read this and see this as a religious thing I am sorry if I have offended you. If I am lucky enough to do this the way I will handle it I will be respectful as I can be to the species and it’s future. I have said enough and maybe to much and I am not going to debate this or criticize somebody for the way they feel so for now I will sit back and see what others have to say and keep my mouth shut cause I don’t need partners or investors or help of any kind. Just remember if I was out for fame I would have killed her and taken what was in her arms. A big male or nothing!!! Good Day

    • Your assumption that these creatures are human is just that, an assumption. How did the Audoban Society document all of the wildlife that it did? It used dead animals for the documantation and classification of theose animals. Do you have PROOF that the Sasquatch is a human? No you dont. I am in agreeance with most of the posts that you have put on this site, but you are talking about the fact that Sasqui are human, nobody knows exactly what these creatures are. I would also kill one of these creatures to prove they exist and give them the protection that they need. I am not some “yahoo” with a rifle, I am a professional business man that personally believes in these creatures. I would NEVER seek money or fame if I killed one of them, I want all of the speculation and unbelievers to go away. Without specific proof (a corpse) NOBODY will believe in these creatures.

      • Ken Wilson

        So why would you kill an innocent creature which as a whole have had thousands of opportunities to kill humans, but have not done so. In your flawed analogy, it would be just fine for a sasquatch to kill a human just to prove to the other sasqui that we do indeed exist. Go back to your successful business and stay out of the woods.

        • ClevelandJim

          I’m going to kill my mother-in-law because NO one believes someone like her actually exists, and that’ll teach ‘em! (Years of unbelievable stories will finally be proved real!)

      • Forest:

        You are absolutely correct that neither Lindsay nor anyone else “know” the sasquatch are human. By “human”, I am presuming you mean “modern human”, not Homo erectus nor any other so-called “archaic” humans?

        So rather than argue the point you are making, I will tell you what I know: I have seen considerable mitochondrial sequencing from three purported sasquatch specimens only–and all three were “within modern human ranges”. I have also seen three nuclear DNA sequences FOR A SINGLE GENE — MC1R (with two overlaps with the mito data), and none of the three were modern human; but they were close to it. Just as close as Neanderthal was for this gene; one or two differences (where chimp has about 17 differences within this 1000 pair gene).

        I am well over 90% convinced that all four specimens were from real-life, extant sasquatch (pl. — I’ve given up completely on the word I first coined–sasquai), not because of the individual DNA data for any one of these four, but because to pull off all four hoaxes (or mistakes) simultaneously would be statistically impossible.

        Still, the mito sequences are NOT a direct reflection of the “nature of the beast” but rather a reflection of where their respective “mitochondrial Eves” came from, and approx. how long ago. There were two such “Eves” out of the three sets of mito data — one from subglacial European origins around 15,000 – 25,000 years ago and the other from sub-Saharan Africa around 50,000 – 75,000 years ago. While all of these are (or were) “within human ranges”, whether the particular humans were modern or archaic is anyone’s guess — I would guess the latter, frankly, especially for the sub-Saharan specimen.

        One the nuclear data is completed, we will know whether the sasquatch is within the genus “Homo” or not, but this outcome is likely although not proven yet. “Homo” is better than modern human, because “Homo” also includes archaic humans — for example Neanderthal; Denisovan; Homo Heidelbergensis; Homo Erectus; etc.

        So, if you shoot one and believe it is OK to shoot non-modern humans, you likely are cleared of any wrongdoing, using your own ethical and moral scale of what “deserves” to be shot (for whatever reason). Still, you’d likely be shooting a form of archaic human who is doing you no harm to boot. But if that’s what floats your boat, have at it.

        You should also be aware that “turning such a body into authorities” has likely been tried before, and in each case the body simply “disappeared” without a trace. In other words, IF you shoot one, DON’T turn it into any governmental agency, but rather only to THE PRIVATE SECTOR. Don’t ask me whom.

        Richard Stubstad

      • Besides, the Audubon Society did 99.9% of their documentation work before DNA testing was known of let alone available. Morphological classifications were the only act in town, so what were they to do (mainly with birds)?

        This method of species identification initially resulted in Homo sapiens sapiens and Home sapiens Neanderthalensis initially identified as two separate species.

        Once DNA testing became available, this was clearly shown NOT to be the case–that both had at one time or another cross-bred and in fact all non-African races on earth have a small percentage of Neanderthal DNA within their genetic make-up.

        Accordingly, Neanderthal was an archaic human, not a different species.

        Richard

        • It is controversial whether Neandertal is a separate species or a subspecies of Homo sapiens. Some say they are a separate species, some a subspecies. I hold out for separate species.

        • Bob:

          Your interpretation as a hold-out is indeed just that. Prior to the sequencing of a significant proportion of the neanderthal nuclear genome, your interpretation was the prevailing one (I also thought so at the time) — two separate species.

          That changed suddenly when the Max Planck Institute, lead by Paabo et.al. published their impeccable genomic sequencing work and proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Neanderthal and modern humans (at the time) were simply two separate subspecies or clans of the same archaic human ancestor, and continued to interbreed to whatever extent possible, or “desirable”, for tens of thousands of years.

          The most up-to-date rendition of this controversy is — where else — found in:

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neanderthal

          At first glance, anatomically one would be inclined to classify the pygmy and (say) modern Scandinavians as two separate species. Now, we know they are not — based on their ability (if not desire) to interbreed, coupled with DNA evidence more recently.

          Have a good, thorough read of the link above, and more importantly, of the Paabo et.al. Journal Article showing just the opposite interpretation.

          Richard

        • Richard. Actually, the prevailing view before was that Neandertal was a subspecies. It is only in recent years that we began to think they were a separate species. The old view that two species cannot breed is being tossed out. Separate species can and do breed. The new way is to look at genetic distance. Based on genetic distance alone, I believe that Neandertal is a separate species. Denisova also, and Bigfoot. Whether they can breed with us or not is not relevant. There’s too much genetic distance for a single species.

        • In that case, it all boils down to definitions of “species”, “subspecies”, “clans” and the like.

          I think the proper breakdown is between these two: “hominid” and “hominin”. The former includes the great apes as well as the “Homo’s”; the latter only include the “Homo” side of the evolutionary tree. These “folks” on the hominin subset of hominid would all be classified as “human” in modern parlance but still “archaic humans” for everything except extant and fairly recent modern humans and, now, possibly sasquatch (assuming sasquatch ends up in the hominin subset, not the overall and all-encompasing “hominid” classification.

          This discussion actually all started by someone’s attempt to place sasquatch in the very broadly-based hominid classification, when it likely (but not certainly) actually belongs to the hominin subset or evolutionary group of “humans” (archaic or otherwise). Go ahead — we can define several “species” within the hominin group of two-legged and “thinking” folks. The point is, though, that one of our “species” is no better or worse than or superior or inferior to the next hominin species, ethically speaking.

          Richard

        • Here’s the crux of the confusion about different species vs. different “archaic humans”. I prefer the latter, mainly based on the work of the Max Planck Institute in evolutionary anthropology:

          Terminology and definition (from Wikipedia):
          ______________________________
          The category archaic Homo sapiens is disputed and lacks a single, agreed upon definition. According to one definition, Homo sapiens is a single species comprising several subspecies that include the archaics and modern humans. Under this definition, modern humans are referred to as Homo sapiens sapiens and Archaics are also designated with the prefix “Homo sapiens”. For example, the Neanderthals are Homo sapiens neanderthalensis, and Homo heidelbergensis is Homo sapiens heidelbergensis. Other taxonomists prefer not to consider archaics and modern humans as a single species but as several different species. In this case the standard taxonomy is used, ie Homo rhodesiensis, or Homo neanderthalensis.

          The dividing lines that separate modern humans from archaic Homo sapiens and archaics from Homo erectus are blurry. The earliest known fossils of anatomically modern humans such as the Omo remains from 195,000 years ago, Homo sapiens idaltu from 160,000 years ago, and Qafzeh remains from 90,000 years ago are recognizably modern humans. However, these early modern humans do exhibit a mix of some archaic traits, such as moderate, but not prominent, brow ridges.
          _______________________________

          The reason I prefer the definition that they are all “human” (archaic or otherwise) during the past 200,000 years or so is that it has become clear that not only was there cross-breeding, but this cross-breeding also left viable offspring, some of whom survived even to this day (Homo sapiens sesqueqiensis) and virtually all of whom left significant genetic “traces” in modern human populations, proving beyond a doubt that such cross-breeding took place and retained a foothold in our genetic make-up.

          Of course, one could call a Chihuahua one species and a German Sheppard another, but by my own definition, there are both dogs, regardless of the size & anatomy differences that have been forced upon them (or simply evolved).

          By this definition, both wolves and coyotes are also dogs; but I don’t think the “African Wild Dogs” belong to the taxonomic category of what we call “dogs”.

          It’s all a matter of definition. One of the risks of defining modern humans on the one hand and archaic humans (or sasquatch) on the other as different species is that this will (and does) engender a superiority complex on the part of us modern humans. In my view, we are not “superior” in the sense of comparing a human to a black faced monkey, but simply different subspecies of the Homo taxonomic branch of hominids.

          Richard

        • Richard, did you know Meldrum is still pushing his Ape Theory? When are they ever going to let go of this silliness? I hear Bindernagel switched from Ape Theory to Hominim Theory a while back.

        • Yes, I knew all that, too. In fact, I had to admit to Meldrum recently that “I wasn’t 100% sure” that sasquatch belonged to the narrowly-defined hominin group, simply because I had only seen a single gene (MC1R) sequenced of the sasquatch’s nuclear DNA. What if most of the other thousands of genes comes out closer to the “great ape” branch of hominids, what then?

          I doubt that this will occur; but who knows?

          I believe (but do not know) that Bindernagel changed his mind when he visited one of Erickson’s sites & actually saw a creature there.

          On the other hand, maybe there is more than one “species” of sasquatch as well?

          So — I still don’t know for sure, although I tend to believe you are correct.

          Richard

  36. As usual, I agree 99% with what Java Bob (JB) says, above.

    Re. the “religious aspect” subsequently thrown in for good measure, let’s just leave faith out of it, and — in all honesty — I end up with precisely the same conclusions.

    I started this project, frankly with JB and Melba Ketchum, wherein we ALL agreed that — assuming the sasquai exist, and now I agree almost 100% certain that they do, we WERE GOING TO DO THIS WITHOUT KILLING ONE.

    Even if Ketchum had not chucked several of us out, I would have left in dismay anyway, now that it looks like someone has already killed two of them — a mother and a child or “toddler”, leaving another toddler to fend for him- or herself above the snow line last winter.

    As JB pointed out, these guys & gals are at least partly (50%?) human, and they should be treated as such. OK, if you have declared war on Bin Laden (or vice-versa), all bets are off on the killing bit. But what have these sasquai folks ever done to you? Look “evil”? Have too much hair?

    The Nazi death camps were an excellent analogy, in fact. Ketchum has plenty of viable samples, and we are gathering more to have another lab test them. So PLEASE, folks — no more killing. It’s the right thing to do, whatever your faith or world view is.

    Richard Stubstad

    • Maurice Cloud

      Dr. Stubstad, May I enquire if you have reversed yourself on the 2010 shooting incident? I believe you said somewhere on one of these posts that you were something like 60 – 40 against as to it actually occurring. I am drenched with doubt about the incident but would very much like to hear what may have changed your opinion on this. Cheers!

  37. Exactly; I reversed my opinion from 60-40 against to 60-40 for (the kill).

    I hope I’m wrong, but the reason I reversed myself is all the correspondence coming from Robert Lindsay; conversations with the shooter and even the driver of the pick-up, etc. At this point, Bob is maybe 90% or 95% certain it happened, and I’m starting to fear he’s right. I hope he isn’t, but I fear he is.

    BTW, I’m not “Dr.” Stubstad. My highest educational level is a Master of Science in Civil Engineering (U.C. Berkeley), including a pretty good background in statistics. This was way back when, with a scientific faculty that included many of the world’s leaders in their particular fields, including Albert Einstein’s son, Hans. I had him as a professor, in fact, in sanitary engineering (which I never used). I remember his “tales” of life with, and without, his father.

    “Richard” is just fine in any event.

    Over and Out (hereinafter OaO,)

    Richard

    • Maurice Cloud

      Thank-ee kindly Dr. Richard, err, Richard. A question for you and Robert(how about “Rob” in the spirit of Richard’s egalitarianism . . ?) — What specifically is it about Smeja and his chauffeur, sorry, driver, that brings the two of you to have such confidence in their story? What more to this is there that encourages you gentlemen to not respond, “Sorry, but we believe you’re just making this up.” Is there reliable third party verification? Is there more than we know re: the Ca. Fish & Game’s , or whichever dept. is responsible, response? Does anyone know beyond refute that Ketchum, or some other lab, received relevant material from this incident . . ? Details. No more secrets! Cheers!

  38. Robert (aka. Bob) Lindsay will have to answer 90% of your questions, Maurice, because I just don’t know the answers to most of these questions. I hope he’s wrong (Bob), but still I know him well enough now to entertain a real fear in my heart that he is in fact right.

    What I do know is this: In November 2010 I got a call from Dr. Ketchum who told me about the “bigfoot steak” in her possession, and in fact, right in front of her nose as she spoke. She described it in some detail, but unfortunately I was so shocked that I didn’t write anything down, so all this is from memory. I don’t think she realized how strongly anti-kill I was; that surprised me, too, since I believed she was as staunchly anti-kill as JB and me (and Adrian Erickson and Dennis Pfohl, in fact, are as well.

    In my disbelief, last November, I ended up basically making a $2 bill bet with her that the “steak” was NOT from a sasquatch. I got a call back a few days later, where she stated (probably based on a snippet mitochondrial test) that it tested “100% human”. Since I felt that one explanation for this test result was that the shooter was pulling the usual hoax and had made some kind of deal with the local morgue & cut off a piece of flesh from a harry human (and there ARE many of these around without hypertrichosis) to finish off his stunt. There were in fact bears killed at almost the same time in the nearby area, so that’s what I hoped had happened.

    My guess is the Dr. K tested the nuclear DNA as well and in fact discovered the piece of flesh was sasquatch, not modern human. But I don’t know this; I’m merely guessing that she wouldn’t be messing around with it if it had come out a “human morgue hoax” as I hoped. That’s where I get my 60% certain from, not from the visit that Bob and I paid up in the area & conducted interviews, etc.

    I have absolutely zero confidence in the word of the shooter; and maybe not the driver either. But their stories may include enough truth to make me go 70-30 in favor, in all honesty.

    The rest of the answer will have to be up to Bob Lindsay. I was not convinced from our on-site investigation, but apparently he was.

    Bob?

    OaO,
    Richard

  39. Dano

    I’d still like to mount one of those teenage skunk-apes just to see if she becomes vocal during the vinegar strokes.

  40. Ken Wilson

    Again with the Gobbiltygook. I am going camping near the Frazier Land in Kentucky over the Labor Day weekend and plan to do some investigating myself sans a highpowered rifle. I would be more apt to believe all of this chatter if the leaders of the Erickson Project would release a small morsel of the pictures that they “got tired of taking.” As of now I think the whole thing is a bunch of bunk since there is so much secrecy. What happened to the rest of the murdered squatches? Just a “steak” was taken? I’m just a lowly truck driver and I don’t buy this crap. I am starving for proof of the Bigfoot’s existence.

    • Maurice Cloud

      Morning Ken, To begin, you are not a “lowly” truck driver. The dignity of work — one of the most meaningful expressions in the English language I think. What you do matters, so no more self-deprecation ok? Good luck on your expedition. I share your frustration with all the secrecy, it only engenders suspicion and ridicule by the larger community on this issue. Scroll up about half a page to have a looksee at my idea of how an organization dedicated to verifying the existence of Sasquatch should structure itself. No Secrets could almost function as its name . . . Cheers!

      • ws

        It’s my understanding that most journals have an embargo on information until peer review is complete and the paper is published. Aren’t we all seeking legitimacy for the study? As far as I can tell, none of these leaks are from Dr. Ketchum but rather a few sample contributors. That’s actually a good sign.

        • Maurice Cloud

          Hi WS, Journals have no legal recourse with regard to what an author(s) can or cannot say publicly about a submitted paper unless of course they take the highly unusual step of requesting said author to sign a NDA, which just doesn’t happen very often. The discussion with an author seeking publication may very well initially revolve around a no-publication-until-peer-review-is-complete scenario, but that still does not shut down public commentary/discourse, etc . . . Attorneys do that. And from the sound of it Ketchum also has some of those critters in her possession. I think what Ken was referencing — although I hasten to add I am not attempting to speak for him — is the growing sense of frustration about the absurd degree of secrecy and paranoia that is starting to choke the Erickson Project, Ketchum DNA study, and two murdered Sasquatch, although I’m still taking that last bit with a large dose of salt . . . Adrian Erickson could do himself no world of good by simply severing his relationship with Ketchum and releasing his videos. Time’s a-wastin’. Cheers!

    • Ken:

      Re. the Erickson Project — his plan was, and still is, to wait until someone comes out with the DNA study, to lend support to the fact (which I personally know for sure) didn’t hoax his footage. You probably have seen a snippet of his footage yourself — the so-called pancake video. That is the worst of all of it — trust me! I have seen a “mini” documentary, and it is kick-ass! More than one habituation location is involved.

      I don’t think he realized the mess that would ensue with Dr. K and her (by now) multiple lawyers. So who knows when. We both know, though, without supporting and irrefutable evidence such as a body or, even better, DNA from several samples, his videos will be attacked as frauds relentlessly by — in fact — many folks on these blogs.

      Re. Biscardi “touching” the George Hoax — I am told he did touch the eyes & the tongue, both of which were real and cleverly implanted from another animal by the George cops. I believe these two crooks were selective in WHO they fooled, because Biscardi is so passionate about these creatures, and he wants the fame & fortune of being the FIRST.

      I told him: If it sounds to incredible to be true, it probably is. But that was after-the-fact.

      The murdered sasquai — well, I still don’t completely believe the story. However, if it is true, I do believe that these guys have salted the little one away, and probably “pieces” of the mother. One chunk of the latter was eventually sent to Ketchum; the little one is likely still in-tact.

      Of course, I don’t know any of this for sure — I’m simply reading between the lines and still hoping against all hope, that the “Georgia Boys” have opened up shop in Plumas County California and pulled off yet another fast one.

      Richard Stubstad

  41. Well, I’m not a sample contributor per se, but rather I helped Dr. K find early contributors and assisted in the initial assessment of three complete mitochondrial data sets, which then lead to further nuclear DNA testing, which was — as it turns out — needed because we evidently have a somewhat or considerable difference between the female and male “histories” of the creature called sasquatch.

    In terms of Dr. K’s peer reviewed paper idea, is this categorical and somewhat conjectural statement a “leak”?

    After all, I did uncover the potential mitochondrial “link” between samples 1 and 2, which in turn spurred our interest in further nuclear testing. The thing is, I don’t know how this testing came out. Therefore, my only “forum” as it were for findings — or rather rather good odds — that the sasquai even exist, in some form, is here on the internet.

    How does the above fit into the peer review process?

    My “take” is, regardless of Dr. K’s success in publishing a peer-reviewed paper, we will either need a parallel or subsequent study to verify her results, or — as you all have seen — there will still be doubters out there, even scientifically-minded ones. The reason? It just can’t be true that the sasquai exist, so we don’t believe the veracity of the study.

    So we need two or three studies, and we need them FAST in our desperate attempt to protect these creatures.

    Richard Stubstad

    • ws

      Richard, I haven’t thought of your revelations as “leaking”. You’re no longer with the project and not under NDA. I have to ask – do you think this study would have progressed if you hadn’t uncovered the mitochondrial “link”? Also, do you have any sense as to whether other scientists are paying close attention to these developments? Surely geneticists and those qualified to participate in a peer review talk to their colleagues…or do they? I guess I’m saying I wouldn’t be surprised if there are efforts by others to obtain samples. But then again, this subject is pretty high on the taboo list.

  42. Ralphie Boy, Peter Byrne, (one of the origial ‘four horesmen’ of the bigfoot world, emailed me and asked if I knew how to contact you. I have no idea why, or what he wants. If you are interested in contacting him, I will ask him, you can contact him at: petercbyrne@yahoo.com
    This is the email he posts as a contact for purchasing his books and so I am not sharing any secrets…. If not, I can at the very least, tell Peter that I tried…
    Thanks

  43. There are definitely efforts by others to obtain samples too.

    At the time, Dr. K was working pretty closely with both Adrian Erickson, to some extent Java Bob, and especially me on the mito sequencing, plus we had begun sequencing a single gene on the nuclear side to “see what we could see”.

    The link between Sample 1 and Sample 2 was accurately articulated by me, but only after doing quite a lot of research in the literature and also comparing both samples’ entire mito genome to several very close samples in GenBank to both of these samples, not just one at a time. Dr. K hadn’t really thought of using GenBank in this manner, but this lead to pinpointing the common “mitochondrial Eve” of both samples to some 15,000 years ago in sub-glacial Europe.

    Adrian & I especially looked at these data together, and the implications thereof; after that, Adrian paid for I think it was six nuclear genomes. I kept hearing from Dr. K that “they weren’t finished”, but now I believe she had seen enough evidence to REALLY see a difference between modern humans and sasquatch within the nuclear data; then I stopped getting any information, as did Adrian Erickson and Java Bob, and we were effectively isolated from the ongoing work.

    I doubt that the work would have progressed as it did without the work of the three of us: Adrian Erickson, Java Bob, and me. The former two contributed both sasquatch samples; the former contributed a lot of money, and I contributed some money and the impetus to look into the nuclear genome in earnest.

    Really, I don’t feel like a traitor at all; on the contrary, I would say Dr. K is the traitor here. On the other hand, what is she to do when she hires two or three lawyers and they all advise her that she only needs samples from us; not any help? It’s really too bad, but if she hadn’t lawyered up, I’m sure everything would have proceeded just fine and we would probably had a paper out by now — without the “Sierra Kill” sample(s), assuming they even exist.

    It’s all quite a shame, but life goes on. Others are also working on sasquatch sequencing, and I am getting a lab from outside the USA involved so we can “parallel” Dr. K’s study. This will be needed whether she is successful or not. In spite of all this, I hope she is successful. That will depend a whole lot on the integrity and credibility of the REST of her coauthors (she says there are five others, whom I don’t know at all).

    Thanks,

    Richard

    • ws

      Thanks Richard. There’s a question that’s been bugging me. Assuming you’re right (and no new mito revelations have surfaced since you left the project), how can the mtDNA read human when it seems likely the ancestors of this first mating would surely have interbred with other females of varying “purity”. Wouldn’t this affect the mtDNA? As you can tell, I’m not an expert on this subject. Maybe I missed the boat entirely. Anything you can add to help me understand would be appreciated.

  44. unholy

    I think it was Biscardi who contacted me some years ago, needing a guide to the Marble Mtn area of the Marble Mtn wilderness in northern California. His bigfoot org was planning an outing. As soon as he tried to entice me with the notion that he already had a bigfoot skull, I knew he was full of sh*t — if he had a skull he didnt need to look any further.

    Sure enough, when we didnt rise to the bait, he and his buddies spent their time running the roads around Happy Camp on their ATV’s, “looking” for bigfoot…..lol!

    The nonsense “investigators” are not advancing the issue, they are discrediting it.

  45. Ken Wilson

    Richard. Thanks for the input, but I still think Biscardi should have known that the rest of the body was fake as I did by simply looking at the pictures. I appreciate your input quite a bit and please keep it coming since I am insatiable as to any sasquatch info. Maurice..Thanks for the kind words and I can’t seem to find your structure of the organization on prior posts, but I do agree that the “growing sense of frustration about the absurd degree of secrecy and paranoia that is starting to choke the Erickson Project, Ketchum DNA study, and two murdered Sasquatch.” When I heard of the Erickson Project I was obviously excited and told several of my non-believing friends that they were soon to be proven wrong. Now it seems that I am soon to be proven gullible for my trust in the Project. Where can I find the “pancake” footage. I haven’t got the time to search.

    • Trying to tell if something is real from just a photograph really can’t be done.
      I believe the Patterson film is real, But to this day, it’s still being argued.
      As well it should be, the quality just isn’t there.
      It’s really as simple as a person getting too excited about owning The Golden Goose.

  46. Ken Wilson

    Unholy gets it about Biscardi!

  47. Ken Wilson

    Maurice…I found your post and I love it for it’s simplicity, however I’m afraid that when money is thrown into the mix, it will muddle everyone’s thinking and planning no matter how well intentioned. Perhaps you and I should start a new project, but it will have to be bare bones as even eight dollars might be out of my reach. Cheers to you.

  48. Ken et.al.:

    After Erickson bought the “pancake video” from (I believe) the BFRO, he took it off-line and began a habituation project at the same location. Indeed, excellent video footage exists from that very location, in addition to the previously available (on-line) pancake video. Video exists from the Erickson project (some of which I have seen) from other habituation sites as well.

    All of the footage I have seen is better than the pancake video.

    Re. the Patterson film and the pancake video for that matter, I would say that neither has the resolution to be of much help taken alone (meaning without footprints, DNA, hair, etc. In addition, even if the resolution had been better, most or all of the creatures ever filmed or photographed could be a “man in a suit”, and controversy will swirl about as usual.

    This is why Adrian is not releasing any of his videos until some DNA results are available from the same creature, or the same “family” at the same site at a minimum.

    I know that Dr. Ketchum has six samples from Adrian (all from different creatures, by the way), and I’m sure she has determined beyond a reasonable doubt, or better, that most or all of these are the real deal.

    The problem is that neither Adrian nor I have enough DNA data to make a 100% slam-dunk case that the DNA PROVES his videos are the real deal. And who knows when Dr. K will release anything, when 1) her lawyers are in charge, and 2) she is extremely secretive which may not play well with peer reviewers?

    Someone once mentioned in this forum that Einstein did it alone; why not Ketchum? In the first place, Einstein did not do it alone; he was in close contact with one of his professors, Max Planck himself. It was Planck who recognized not only that indeed the speed of light may in fact be constant, but also made sure that the theory wouldn’t be released until some confirmation, observation-wise, had been carried out.

    After that very thorough approach, the Special Theory of Relativity came out; but still, most scientists didn’t believe it. Instead, several more experiments were carried out, and each and every one confirmed that Einstein’s theory was in fact correct.

    Why should this process be easier than what Einstein and Plank had to go through? Here, we are potentially talking about a new hominid, or at least a new “ancient” human of sorts. There is some evidence that suggests that there are elements in both the Canadian and American governments who already know about this, and go out of their way to cover up any evidence presented to them.

    The recent purported shootings in Plumas County confirm this governmental attitude, where the authorities have been informed and no one (not the sheriff, fish & game, or the forest service) wishes to pursue the matter, saying “it’s not worth it”.

    Maybe they really believe each and every report is a hoax, or maybe they just don’t want to know due to an unofficial “guideline” to turn the other way. I just don’t know what to think.

    I’m afraid the proof has to come though private labs, or labs in other countries. Then, the environmentalists will have to get involved to help protect the creature known as sasquatch.

    Maybe then we’ll get some help from fish and game, if not law enforcement.

    Compared to the urgency indicated above, Biscardi just doesn’t matter. You can change a person’s skill set but you cannot change a person’s attitude or personality.

    Richard Stubstad

    • Maurice Cloud

      Well said Richard. Wouldn’t it be nice to have an insight to what the Russians and Chinese were about on this issue? Respective niches and crannies in their governments take this rather more seriously than does ours . . . Cheers!

  49. Ken Wilson

    Richard,
    What you have said makes a boatload of sense. I just wish or hope that more samples are available for testing so that all of my hopes are pinned on one lawyered up doctor. I would love to be in your position to be able to view these videos. I have read that some of the videos were in Anderson County Ky (The Frazier Land) and now I hear that they were in Crittenden KY. Do you have any confirmation of any of these sites? I’m going camping over the Labor Day weekend on private land close to the Frazier Land. Just wondered if that is the site of any sightings. Thanks for your input!

    • Crittenden is for sure. Frazier Land and Anderson County I have no idea.

      And Richard probably will not answer that question for you either. ;) He’s under NDA about such matters.

      • Ken Wilson

        Thank you Robert. I appreciate you and this site. I no longer have to depend solely on the BFRO website for Bigfoot info. The site has gone downhill lately anyway since MM is a big TV star. Thanks again and keep us in the loop!

  50. Ken Wilson

    Any revalations on Phillip Spenser?

  51. Ken Wilson

    Spencer even?

  52. Hey Robert I did a Google on Dr. Ketchum and the Erickson project and I want to know what you have to say about what Dr. K. Had to say about your Bigfoot blog. He said that he knows who your source is and the things you and your source are saying is bullshit. Your source is pissed off cause he isn’t involved in the project anymore. He also said you are misleading the people on the site and your pissed off also. I read the full report about what happened in in the Sierras the mom and baby killed. Things I have read on here just don’t add up. The DNA evidence that doesn’t seem to be adding up either. He basically made it real clear you and your source are full of shit. Just wondering what you have to say in defense of yourself and your source and he made it very clear that he knows who he is. Like I said I read the report and just doesn’t add up. I don’t know you other than your blog sorry if I have made you mad. Later

    • Ketchum is a female. She does not like this site. Everyone who hates this site says that I am wrong. That is their standard response. However, our sources are excellent. Of course they are going to say that we are wrong. What do you expect them to say? Most of what we say is true, and denial is to be expected.

      I am not happy with Ketchum’s behavior.

  53. Desormeaux Jean Guy

    I think that the goverment of any country should put a law to stop killing any bigfoot so if peoples want to tranquilising ,just get information from any zoo,insteed of killing it .If it is true that he kill a young baby ,for me that person is so stupid ,that why the united states and canada should put a stop to these peoples that kil just to make money ,they don’t care to know for science,just for ther ego ,anyway the goverment are to busy to get our money,no time for this nonsense ,it just a man in a monkey suite.What a crazy world.

  54. My 2 cents.
    I have been in this research work since 1998. Sine than I have unfortunately found out more about people than the Sasquatch and the Sasquatch have us beat by a long shot. All this hoopla is just that. Unfortunately, this is ware all this info will stop, dead in it’s tracks.
    For one, with all this information know out into the public domain and the guy that said “hey…I killed a Bigfoot” Look Look I killed a Bigfoot!! If that was true, then he would get stopped dead in his tracks because he let it out to people that run their mouths and then that happens, things disappear. Yes, I am talking about the Government. I’ve heard it many times.
    If you think you have a plan on killing one of these things, think about someone killing one of your kids and finding out about it, now think about doing that in a creatures that know the land you are in, like the back of it’s massive hands. YOU WILL DIE!! No if and’s or buts. They will kill and die trying, and you will not make it out of the woods on that trip, guaranteed.
    That is why I knew the Ga Bigfoot thing was a hoax before I knew the hoaxers. Sasquatches don’t stand by idol while one of their own is being killed. They will rip you to sheds and probably before the final blow that takes you out for good so you can see what has killed you. If you think Chimps have power to kill humans, think about that on a much larger scale.
    Now that I have you shitting in you pants, do you really want to go against something that is out of your league? Trust me you don’t want to go that route.
    Besides, all this information is suppose to be out there will soon disappear because there has been too much talk about it and I’m sure the government has already jumped on the trail to do the the clean up work on that. They do have task forces for anything that walks, crawls, flies, or levitates in the our country. And they most likely doubtingly, they know these creatures exits just like most of the Sasquatch research world does anyway.
    If you are doing to do this research work you have to use your head. Most people want to run to the media about something like this. GOOD!! Do that, then see what you have. I can think of many examples of people that have and guess what? These are the people you all have been talking about and then some that are out there that you have not been talking about as well.
    When things hit the media forms like this and on TV, you don’t have a chance to get any good evidence out into the public let alone to the Scientific world, like that. You will be laughed at, as you can see.
    It will never be discovered in this fashion. Seen it, heard this tail before. I’ve seen the men behind the curtain.
    If you want want to really do this right…keep you’re mouth SHUT!

    Just my 2 cents…
    http://www.ISRTUSA.com

    • bored to death

      a question so late on this interesting thread.

      I am not sure David if you are advocating keep your mouth shut thill you kill one and then outsmart the authorities, as you lay out (or someone does), or immediately do to the press and shout loud so the whole world knows you killed one?
      You seem to be advancing both themes….keep quit b/c if you don’t all the evidence will dissapear…and make the evidence know to a large audience?

      So, although i do follow your arguments above and below they don;t follow total logic…and that’s Okay, it’s a pretty emtonal subject for many.

      Interesting you are unwilling to kill a femal that might be caring for babies, but a male, responsible for the safety of the female and babies, you are willing to kill.

      David there is just not much one can do with that kind of thinking. It’s a kind of positivism..your law or view of the world is firmly rooted in your culture and/or upbringing. Not seeing a lot here that displays an open mind or a good solution, and I mean that sincerely.

      many of your statements about Bigfoots and their behaviors also indicate perhaps more imagination than expereince.

      I sincerely hope you stumble on your gun and shoot your little toe, requiring a quick and easy trip to the urgent care in which you tell your story and are promptly sent to a sanitorium.
      Too rough? You will still be alive and perhaps with hope you could excape such a cruel fate. Mor than you afford this, as you claim, very human man.

  55. Robert et.al.:

    This guy (David) may have an excellent point. I wonder if it is David Paulides speaking?

    Rings true, whether it is Paulides or not.

    As far as a government “cover up”, such a cover-up will be more and more difficult, as long as the DNA evidence is there as well as the various Taxidermy.net threads and all the other threads here and elsewhere on the ‘Net.

    I’m just glad I got out of the fray when I did (when I first heard about the Sierra Kill(s) in November 2010). Based on the entry by David above, this may well have been a blessing in disguise.

    If it is Paulides, I also wonder if his post can be considered a threat in itself, since that particular David was a former police investigator or some such.

    Regardless, I liked his book “Tribal Bigfoot”. No one can take that away from him. Plus, I believe and certainly hope that David Paulides is anti-kill. His book seemed to indicate as much.

    OaO,

    Richard

    • No, that’s not Paulides at all. Paulides would never come to this site. He does not like what I am writing at all, I can tell you that much. I have people who have told me as much.

      • apehuman

        Paulides did post on Linda Martin’s site….pretty long conversation. I chimed in, asking about any Ethics guidelines to the study..who is in and out…etc…and also mentioned maybe he shouldn’t be posting on websites ..he conveniently agreed and never answered my questions or posted again….but, I would say his tone is different than the above writer…less future claims and more info based on accomplishments. He is fairly careful about projections….

  56. Linda Newton-Perry

    I put a link from my online bigfoot magazine, Bigfoot Ballyhoo, to this site. I enjoyed the top article. A good long read. Thank you, Linda Newton-Perry

  57. Get real there isn’t not one creature or animal that has not been killed in the name of science. Whether it had a needle put through or it was killed these days DNA etc. proves that a animal exists in the 1st place. Say kill a animal in it’s own backyard you will die get this AR10A4 308 caliber 178 grain boat tail bullet and a thermal scope maybe in your world 4 20 rd clips and at 100 yrds I can put 20 for 20 in a pie plate in 5 seconds Guarantee you bullet placement is all that matters dude. If you know what your doing you can kill anything. Stand location and knowing the area where you are. Any animal human or not 2 rounds to the chest it will go down. You been reading to many of those stories where people shot them and they get away. In Alaska brown bear 900lbs at 150 yds 2 rounds within 3 seconds of each other walked 2 steps and never even flinched fell over dead. 308 caliber 178 grain boat tail bullet. Your world and reality is 2 different worlds in the real world people and animals coexist because everything is in its’ own category someone kills a Bigfoot steps can be taken to preserve and protect the animal in all 50 states and in other countries as well. As far as the world is concerned these animals don’t exist and only people like me and others believe but until there is a body whether natural causes car accident or 1 killed by a person it’s existence can’t be proven. I personally believe a specimen has to be harvested and if I were the shooter then my only involvement would be advocacy and the protection of them. A lot of people will disagree but this is my opinion and I am a firm believer in the way I feel about this subject. A large male would put this issue to rest. Don’t take a female do to reproduction of the species and possibly young Bigfoot still depending on it’s mother and what’s to say they are like bears I wouldn’t think they are that way because they have the ability to reason. They are smart enough to stay away from people that alone tells me they are pretty smart because everything we touch we destroy whether we mean to or not as the human species and if it involves $ the gloves are off. Our past,reality and future proves that.

  58. TO: Bob Schmalzbach You said: “but I am angry and emotional about this…. I cannot sit idolly by and listen to people discuss the idea that killing people who are not like us is justifiable…. It is not!”

    That’s your problem Bob, you are emotional. You sound just like a hack political pundit these days or a globull warming fanatic. If anyone dares not think like you, they are not only wrong, but immoral. Sorry, but claiming a Bigfoot is a person is a fantasy. No court in the land would convict someone for shooting a hairy giant monster for the first time, unless the entire jury was made up of wanna be Bigfoot researchers. And equating a Bigfoot to a Jew during the holocaust is absurd as you can get and an insult to all Jewish people. Your beliefs are your beliefs, not the law of the land and I would encourage you to get counseling if your self-esteem is so low that you need to fill your empty voids by demonizing people who don’t agree with you.

    Sorry everyone, but we need a body plain and simple. We need a Bigfoot corpse. That is the only thing that will change the world and get them protected. It is dirty work, but we need one, and hopefully it will be of natural causes but I doubt it will be. I would also kill one, just being honest.

    If you are getting “angry” enough to insult people and call them names and intimate that they are loony or crazy or evil, then you are the one that has the problem. For Christ’s sakes, you are on a Bigfoot forum acting like an immature child. Please take a breath and relax.

    Jimmy
    The only Black Bigfoot Believer (lol)

    • apehuman

      I never thought of it… in fact I thought I was outside the norm as a woman who went out and “looked,”…the demographics on my old BF youtubes was male, over fifty..and, apparently white? LOL good point…. I think I just mentally added..and overweight, seriously. Ahhh, that was mean….
      But, yes, there seems to be a lack of diversity among BF “hunters.”

  59. Well, Jimmy, the mitochondrial DNA of almost all of the “monsters” as you call them tested out 100% Homo sapiens sapiens (meaning “human”).

    This is not a belief; it is a fact.

    See: http://www.ScienceAliveNews.com

    JB (Java Bob) has seen at least one complete mtDNA sequence (from the infamous “toenail”) that turned out 100% Homo sapiens sapiens. He is not fantasizing; you are. Exactly how is he being an “immature child” (talk about name-calling!) while you are being a holier-than-thou judge of who has the right to live or die Superman is beyond me, sir.

    Richard Stubstad

  60. Well Jimmy… I must have hit a nerve? I guess it is because I believe that if it acts like a duck…. walks like a duck… and in your case reacts like a duck…. it must be a duck…..

  61. anon

    I must agree, the article and comments are a good read. Maurice, whoever you are, enjoyed your rationality too.
    As for the “blog: site and/or content unrelated to Bigfoot (and claim Ketchum stays away bc of content) I haven’t bothered to read any of it. I do see what I consider “odd titles” for articles, which spark abssolutely no interest in me. As a mature and accomplished woman, with many years of interaction with all types I put not too much stock in writings/blogs as so many are really just unedited thoughts of an indivual self appointed to speak on this vast internet. I often don’t listen to people when they speak on these issues as well….but, for the record I advocate equal laws and opportunities for all classes.,

    On NDA’s….just bc a document is titled “non disclosure Agreement” the content of the agreement defines what type of “contract” it is and what standards of codified or case law apply. From what I have seen and hear on the net it is possible these NDA’s are actully written as non- competition contracts (or even “employment”). As such (regardless of title) the review of such agreements for fairness, even after “informed” signing, is an open question. I seriously doubt these NDA’s will have any force after publication.
    Also, Maurice thank you fo again defing the peer-review process. It seems all on the web think there must be secrecy btw the author and journal, etc. No, not necessarily..in fact some Journals today encourage discourse btw reviewers and the author, etc. It seems this fallacy is being used as a form of intimidation (assuming the journal has not initiated some such limitation on the author) to prevent those with either weak NDA’s or none to remain uiet.

    I was personally asked by Erickson to remove from the web information I osted about my “habituation” site. I was asked to continue my program thru the winter of 209/10 and that Dennis would join me in spring 2010. I did and in spring 2010 they dissapeared…no email response or phone responses. I beleive I wrote an irritated email sometime that May. I got over it bc I had not intened on continuing my accidental research beyon that summer of 09. I am glad now that I did (even if misled by Eriickson) bc the spring of 2010 (now 30 trips and 75 nights into this alone out there) I have learned so much! and I will share in a conclusory fashion what I now know (I too waiting for the “paper” to reveal bc I too am tired of a closed minded audience and the raqbid BF forums)

    1. Bigfoots are very nearly human, they have complicated and efficient means to communicate. That also includes extremely complex and accurate mimicry of almost any animal in the wilderness. But, they also use unique speech to communicate, recordings of which can’t be pinned to known animals.
    2They can detect IR light at least up to the 950nm range.
    3. Gen 3+ night vision monocular I used gives off some kind of IR light (or humm) as they clearly detected that as well (I had many many trips with different set ups and blinds, situations).
    5. FLIR technology handheld with a video cam recording the image real time will givve great quailty FLIR with the added benefit they don’t seem to react to the equipment as they do IR sources or NV equipment (or obvious gear out in the forest).. in fact with skill one can aim a FLIR in a direction you don’t apear to be looking, while recording and the response seems they don’t get that they are being filmed.
    6. There hands and dexterity are close to ours. Although either inexpereince or some thumb grip limitation makes it difficult to open certain items cleanly.
    7. My bigfoots live in a family group of at least 4 indivviduals…A dad, a Mom, an older juvenile and a baby. Priunts of adults were 18-19″ and 15″ respectively. The juvenile print gre from about 11″ to 15″ over the three seasons. I rarely saw the baby prints.
    8. During the night the male seems to hunt/forage independantly of the mother/juvenile. Those two staying rather close to my camp in a natural meadow/bowl with pastoral setting an many foraging opportunites as well as many small rodents (the area is very rocky and this spring in contrast to surrounding topgraphy). Each morning about an hour before any break of light the male would call and the others answer and together (but taveling most often with about 100 or more yards btw them) the tri would head back up to the mt. peak. I camped at 5200ft and they came down from the 7ooft level each night.
    8. They have likes and silike with humans. It appears they liked me and on more than one occassion communicated directly to me. They expressed their frustration with my continued tricks to “get them” and yet with apropriate “apologies/behaviors” on subsequent trips seemed to forgive me.
    9. they do appear to have eyeshine way beyond any animal I have expereinced in the forest. I refrain from concluding some type of bio cause…but certainly soemthing is going on different with their eyes than ours…which tells me they are probably not h.sapiensapien but some hhomo somethng or subspecies of sapien.
    10. They probably dont need as much protection as I first thought! But, I am concerned “disclosure” could bring about senarios as described by many. It is out of my hands though.
    11. They do not appear to have “art” as such and yet do seem to have appreciation for music and the ability to share food. Any material culture is quite limited to simple sticks/stones and roughly “woven” stick blinds and/or nests. I feel they represent the “pre-dawn” of the stone age for us…that as we began to make more complicated points they never did…either by menta;/physical limits or choice.
    12 they train those in their culture to stay away from us! We should seek their permission for study…this is not 19th century “anthroplogy” in the 21st century. We need Jane Goodall to get involved.
    13. I have a lot more to say about unintended consequences of BF research and habituations (or baitings)….but bc there is no “standards committeew” or reallyt any rational checks on the Bigfoot community I will refrain from that now.
    Please wish me the fortitue to finsih the analysis of my overwhelming dtata and if any of you out there are very good at video editing and/or sound analysis please contact this blog writer as he can forward you on.

  62. anon

    typists welcome as well, hopefully with a keyboard that doesn’t skip and stick. I do apologize for not bothering to edit..I assume somewhere there is a spell checker or preview for posts, I just didn’t look. It does slow one down when reading tho…if not too confusing, maybe a good thing!

    • Justin

      I’m a trained typist. I’ve been tasked with typing important papers before. I also have more time on my hands than most.

    • Maurice Cloud

      Mme. Anon., Thank-ee kindly for your gracious acknowledgement. ’tis much appreciated! I may be able to assist you with dots and dollops of your work — you can contact me through our considerate moderator Robert(can’t she, Robert . . ?). And may I also urge you to get in touch with Richard Stubstad, a true force of reason and rationality in this most important endeavour, a gent who is about results . . . sans the attendant paranoia, amok ego, and proprietorial nonsense. The structure of your work as described is very much as I envision it should be, to wit: the anthropological equivalent of SETI, as opposed to the testosterone-driven escapades of much of the existing ‘organizations’. Cheers!

    • apehuman

      Robert Hi!
      It’s July 30 2012!!! If you couldn’t tell, the anon post above is by me, apehuman.
      Surely the typing gives it awayI I came back today to look at when I gegin to post on a public forum my conclusion BF see IR?
      it’s been a year! Of course the personal communications to people went no where prior to thse postings, and those date to 2009…some of that story you have covered and I thank you!

      Your blog gave me a voice when BFers tried to block it out….I am grateful b/c although I remain a type of anon….the ideas are flowing among many..and maybe that is what it took to be heard, being an anon…apehuman…not a people with a motive?

      Although, I couldn’t give away these ideas or my evidence to any prominent BFers b/c, well the come with me (?) I see my ideas have rooted in some…….and they are running with them…..

      The idea BFs can actually detect IR light is gaining ground, as MKDavis has now twice mentioned he thinks they “can see IR” from video’s hes viewing..

      And others now finally agreeing, IR trail cams give almost zero results…or get attacked. I even saw on one forum someone write, “they say we shouldn’t use IR,” right after Larry’s video went up on BE and apehuman made another IR post…

      ….AND as importantly the conversation about BFs as intelligent sentient beings, with families and.closer to human than monsters has also gained ground on the web, it feels anyway…and my voice not alone there!

      I can’t say that for Finding Bigfoot I guess.. I haven’t seen it yet…..couldn’t bare to watch knowing what I know…about BF and some…well, er….

      I recently posted in BFF on the Habituating thread just a few of the experiences and..the IR stuff (again) and so…..a seed was sown?. The responses were fairly positive for that forum.

      Funny part is? If I am wrong no one will remember who started this either…so win-win I guess…if ideas and truth are valued more than celebrity. I should take the data tho and put in article on just the IR stuff….or not LOl who cares ..the idea is out there now…

      And I will say the more thoughtful BFers have, or should have, figured something is wrong with IR b/c, well the obvious reasons….

      Thanks to people like Robert Morgan, Thom Powell, and Bobbie Short and many more have paved that way for folks like me…so many so many so many..and, so many held down or beat down by the more ambitious and less kind…..er….

      so this is a pat on the back to me, from me, b/c it shall be the only one I get…LOL . and a thank you Robert for giving me a voice/platform!


      ..a little more compassion, a little deeper thinking, flexible thinking, and better ethics would go a long way for many BFers.. and perhaps open their eyes/ears to what some of these property owners and habituators, and people like myself, are saying and look at the evidence they collect…

      no prizes in it really form anyone IMO except a healthy bio-diverse future for us all…BFs and humans…..

  63. anon

    Thanks i did email Stubstad and he was gracious, we do have some shared visions and I would very much like to see parallel studies….but funny thing.. I mentioned in email I had corresponded and found some of his story credible and those contacts have gone silent. I guess not amazing, they were people I have forwarded evidence to and support….good reserch and people….but the silence is deafening! I think Ithis whole Ketchum/NDA/NABS?OP etc dynamic is a real log jam and has been now for , well I knew of it in September 09…and stupidly shared with a local Prof the “imminent” publicastion…..he is still waiting and I loking foolish. LOL what new in BF research?
    . The paper we all await anxiously, and I suppose all with mixed emotions about potential outcomes. I am glad now I stayed out of it and declined to get involved with the Biscardi/Jenkins and somehow to Hearn toenail thing….
    my own ignorance initially about the BF world perhaps saved and sunk me!

    to both of you yes, I am interested. The real difficulty tho is video editing….so please if you know someone skilled and spare time think of me.
    Robert has my email and permission to send on to you.
    Peace.

    • Anon:

      I guess I know you, but obviously you have several screen names. I suspect you used to live in AZ but have recently moved to “the foothills” of the Sierras in California?

      I so, let’s talk on the phone. Even if not. Actually, I do have a video editor par excellence (my son Paavo; in Truckee).

      Extremely interesting about what you have written, above. Do I understand correctly that you have ALREADY sent a sample somewhere (else)?

      Don’t worry about Adrian & Dennis; they don’t have any more money to use at this time; they are not ticked off at all, except at certain elements within the broadly-defined “world of bigfoot research”.

      We simply have to move on without them — for now.

      Richard Stubstad

  64. anon

    no sample..no aliases, but anon here b/c this thread and or possible story or big nothing seems to be rather controversial..

    I quit worrying about getting DNA as my time seemed more productive focusing on things associated with thier intelligence… tracks, and the typical physical evidence I do have, and so within about 12 triips the focus became sound, habits, attempts at exchange, symbols, art, music, etc while also trying to work differnt schemes to get clear video on a moonless night under a dark forest canopy…I rarely fooled them….but i got some video (no PG film but compelling and quick) and some FLIR. I had to rent some of the higher end equipment b/c I couldnt get any of thee national groups out…they seemed already to have the data they needed and w/o proof obviously I got nowhere with university
    so yeah, oddly I am asking for help w/o helping you…sure you want to go there? I think focusing on a prarallel DNA study is a good idea…and to pull that together will take a tremendous push in this latest environment )or before a successful and compelling paper)

  65. anon

    no sample as is probably degraded b/c they never got back to me and I wasn’t willing to spend $$ with uncertain sample. As kinder variation of Erickson/Phloghs glass on plate, I glued velcro on plate and used honey (I avoided processed sugars. etc as diabetes etc is an unknown to us). I used high dollar natural foods mostl.. I still have the plate (retrieved from trash..lol long story..one can go up and down with frustration in all this chaos of competition for something we should all be working together on argggg) and two or three possible hairs I never really examined with a decent microscope and only one do I think is pssible. Athough I am hanging on to hairbrush I put out there about a year ago…again wasted really. so those thing s are tough to manage alone and my program not popular style…lots of quiet time no guns, no flashlights, etc no testosterone really :)
    …. but I do have plenty of video of tracks, structures, grub sites, sound files …etc and then these experiemtns that led to some conclusions such as the IR detection…so even tho I didn’t get BF on vid at night with IR the srendipidty of science and malfunctions taught me something one night I expanded on, etc….so the analysis takes time to communicate..and I got burned out at the computer, not my strong suit. hate sitting at it really..

    apehuman@yahoo.com this thread and or possible story or big nothing seems to be rather controversial..

    I quit worrying about getting DNA as my time seemed more productive focusing on things associated with thier intelligence… tracks, and the typical physical evidence I do have, and so within about 12 triips the focus became sound, habits, attempts at exchange, symbols, art, music, etc while also trying to work differnt schemes to get clear video on a moonless night under a dark forest canopy…I rarely fooled them….but i got some video (no PG film but compelling and quick) and some FLIR. I had to rent some of the higher end equipment b/c I couldnt get any of thee national groups out…they seemed already to have the data they needed and w/o proof obviously I got nowhere with university
    so yeah, oddly I am asking for help w/o helping you…sure you want to go there? I think focusing on a prarallel DNA study is a good idea…and to pull that together will take a tremendous push in this latest environment )or before a successful and compelling paper) and I think your time might be more valuable in that endeavor really, although your choice. I really dont have time now to help with setting up that parallel study so…although I support the idea, etc I wont be of much help. It all sucks doesn’t it?

  66. anon

    you know whenever I try and type with online forms this laptop skips or whatever and weirldy skips to top of post everytime I hit enter. I dont see a spell check etc and I dont bother putting in Word or even putting on glasses and then I regret it, I really dont want to frustrate the reader and should take more care. LOL I’ll get help editing anything I put out as result of my time in forest…..!….

  67. anon

    p.s I should also warn you my intention is to try and make a compelling 20 or 30 minute video and target as audience my local FS/Uni/environmental and wildlife groups as I have need to acquire 100 acres of precious riparian habitat…the only private land (old homestead) and key habitat….slated to develop into 47 cabins…but RE stalled out in AZ and so there may be window here to purchase, return to wilderness and use an already familiarized population with some willingness to communicate to begin a University type study. LOl no lack for dreams here and with specific impact for this family of BF.s doubt I will influence national Policy although we all should prepare a “statement” for the Forest Service and current ongoing Forest Management Planning which will encompass future ten years programs…and BF’s not even proven…

    so you know… I am just waiting too I guess and wondering if it will worth my effort….. I have no interest in commercial/passive website ads/youtube fame etc… I just want sincere and semi-pro film to pique these groups interest and then a back up PDF of the real analysis…then maybe they will look at the evidence? seems so wishful today….

    • Hey Anon
      I have read what you have said and that is admirable that you don’t want publicity. You talk about flir it is much better than night vision I have a scope that doubles as a video camera and uses a 4gb chip. I am a hunter and I purchased the scope with one purpose in mind. I could have killed a female with what I believe was a baby. My intent is to kill a male. I you are serious about the Bigfoots I will make you this offer. You said you need a Jane Goodall get in touch with Robert and get my information. I will bring the scope and leave the rifle and if you have what it takes live in the woods 30 days at a time. Live off the land and forage. Don’t need help with editing video my computer can do anything needed. The only way to earn their trust is to live along side them and it won’t happen overnight. I am willing to pay for the contract between the 2 of us that this info will be used for the preservation of the animal. It will also be set up so there is none of the problems like the Erickson project. If you live alongside them you have to forget about a washing machine and those luxuries behind. You live with them you can get DNA and proof so if you really know where a family unit lives and your willing to prove what you say get up with me. If you don’t want to live off the land you can furnish me with batteries and any supplies I will need and you can update the blog. I talk it the question is are you ready to walk it. I am not talking about $50.000.00 venture I am talking bare bones. Using snares to catch food and living off the land. Let me know if you are truly willing to take the next step in the preservation of the species. You have a good day! I am personally more interested in preserving the species even though I have logged 5 nights in the woods. And yes I want credit for something like this cause there is no way I would spend months taking notes and dealing with nature cause it will not be easy by no means. Anyone else out there if you know where a family group is contact me. I am not interested in fame just the preservation of the species and yes under my own circumstances I am currently hunting them. Look at it this way I will not be hunting them but researching them just using a scope.

      • I don’t completely understand your post, David.

        Are you or are you not advocating a kill of a male? Or more accurately: An adult male?

        On the one hand you want to collect DNA (which can be done without a kill). On the other hand, you want to kill one (humanoid) creature? Or: Is it a hominid?

        What shall it be, David?

        Richard Stubstad

        • Yes I will kill a male all I need is the opportunity and to get him in my cross hairs. I am not above studying the species though that would be great. Where I have started I have divided the areas into zones or 10 mile quadrants. If you go back and read I am very interested in preserving these animals and that has always been what I have said. If I kill a male I would be a major advocate to pass laws to protect them to. To answer your question if given a opportunity in Anons situation that he turned me on to them the opportunity no killing the animal would not be a option unless he said bring your gun. Anon acts like he isn’t out to do that he is more interested in studying them. No bones about if I have a encounter with a large male and I can be sure it is a large male when I pull the trigger it won’t even flinch it will drop in it’s tracks and trust me I will be on high alert the rest of the night. I have spent hours with my friends wife and my kid walking around in the woods with the bolt removed from my weapon just so I can judge the size cause I am not looking for something human size. Given the opportunity to live among them forage around them and earn their trust and be the Bigfoot Jane Goodall shit I would be all over that. I am comfortable in the woods don’t need electricity TV give me a river or stream to wash my ass in I’m home. To be honest with you the life they live is living. I am the type of person you say I can’t do something people who know me will tell you surprise cause I did it. Yes I have a support team with GPS radios to locate and find me and get it out of the woods so I can protect the kill. I hope that answered your question . It is just a matter of time. All I am saying given the opportunity I would live with them or at least the chance to try. I will say this without a body they will never be a protected species. Earn their trust and maybe a dead one will knock on your door.

  68. Ken Wilson

    Wow Anon. A true believer who wants no publicity or credit. I think I love you!

  69. Ken Wilson

    Hey Robert… Just wondering if you host a local radio show on Saturdays.

    • No I do not. Why? Do you think I should?

      • Ken Wilson

        Of course as a Bigfoot zealot I think you should, but we have a local radio guy named Robert Lindsay. Just wondered if it was you. Going camping in the wilderness in KY over the Labor Day weekend. Hope to at least hear some return howls or knocks!!

        • Maurice Cloud

          Cheers Ken. Best of luck on your mini-expedition in two weeks! Get off the beaten path and keep the scuttles open . . . And let us know what happens.

  70. jim simpson

    I’m also a Jimmy Simpson, but a white one coincidentally deeply interested in this dialogue. Just leaving a reply to assure that I’ll receive the update comments. Wonderful dialogue… looking forward to more of it

  71. Ken Wilson

    Thanks Maurice. I’ll let everyone know what happens, but what the heck is a scuttle?

    • Maurice Cloud

      Cheers Ken! A scuttle was a small opening on sailing vessels that would be opened for a variety of purposes. I used the word as a metaphor for you opening up your senses and following your intuition. Watch for that trace evidence too, but most of all, have a great and memorable time.

  72. shooter

    i am a woodsman of 50+ yrs ,and people running around in the woods beating on trees and hollering is a joke. these are people of the woods( the bigfoot) they live there . what a joke research my ass.
    shooter

  73. “Shooter” eh? Are you the MOST infamous of all shooters — Dick Cheney?

    I’ll be out fishing next week and then some (in Canada). If I find any DNA, shooter, I’ll let you know. Then you can shoot it.

    Richard

  74. Ken Wilson

    Shooter seems misguided as to the reason for this site. Thanks for the explanation Maurice! I will keep my scuttles open and clear. I’m not going on an organized expedition or anything, but will be on my daughter’s 55 acre farm which abuts 3000 acres of rural farm and woodlands with plenty of water and wildlife. I plan to do some knocking and calls, and will surely keep an eye out for all residual evidence, but mostly I plan to escape from work and stress!

    • Maurice Cloud

      So Ken . . . Would my eight dollars and your eight dollars be a large enough sum to convince your sister to let us set up a study site on her farm for a couple of months? And remember to inform her that “stressed” backwards is “desserts” . . . Cheers!

      • Ken Wilson

        Maurice,
        As long as my daughter doesn’t get any larger offers, I believe that our sixteen bucks will suffice for a couple of months of access.

  75. David:

    Thanks for the clarification. This is just to give you some information I know about to consider:

    1) “Anon” is a female, not a male. Not that this matters, but there it is.

    2) It will be difficult if not impossible to set up a wilderness habituation site where these creatures trust you enough to put themselves (even the males) in a position where your cross-hairs take over the relationship at some point in time. They are more clever & cautious than you believe to be the case.

    3) One (if not the only) reason for this caution is that the sasquai have a significant percentage of Homo sapiens genetic make-up. I don’t know how much yet, but their mitochondria (the female lineage) is 100% Homo sapiens in most if not all cases.

    4) Even though they have evolved throughout the past several tens of thousands of years apart from other Homo sapiens such as us, they are nevertheless at least as related to us as was Neanderthal 30,000 years ago.

    Keep all of the above in mind when your see what is actually shown in the four quadrants of your cross-hair scope — before you pull the trigger. It would be pretty much tantamount to killing a male Native American, but one that has not yet been integrated into our “society” such as it is.

    Sasquatch is not an animal any more than we are — maybe even less so, emotionally.

    Richard Stubstad

  76. Sorry to disagree with you on that. We call ourselves human anyway you cut it we are all animals. You live in a house we are civilized animals or fancy words so you can say whatever you want we are nothing more than a different species and DNA proves that. We learn new things everyday who would have believed 10 yrs. ago elephants communicated with very low pitch sounds that could be heard for 50 miles away and they could communicate for vast distances but we can’t hear them without specialized equipment. I am sure they communicate in other ways than garbled language grunts and hand signals. What is to say they don’t communicate in the same way. So anyway you cut it we are a species of animal and our brains are a lot more complicated. As far as Anon is concerned who cares if she is female but on the other hand I think it would be hard to observe them from a blind because to live in the woods you have to forage and to hunt you have to travel and move around. That is why to observe and earn their trust they have to become familiar with your sent and use to you being in their territory, and even then it might not be enough to earn their trust. Basically if you can’t live off the land or have a support system for food and supplies.

  77. Good luck with earning their trust!

    My guess is they know what a gun is, and maybe they will even be able to “read” your intents.

    But — have at it. Get me some DNA WITHOUT a body. I’m out to protect these creatures; even a single male.

    Richard

  78. I present DNA I will have a body like you said a gun I could have already killed a female understand that and she didn’t have a clue. Read what you want into that. Time is on my side and winter is coming and unless they can hover above snow they will leave tracks and I walk more in a day in the woods than you probably walk in a week. Just so you get the point if I was studying them I wouldn’t have a gun at all ignorant ass. Actively hunting them damn right have a gun I’m not trying to earn their trust just kill one. I kill one I will do more in a day as far as getting laws on the books to protect them than you will do with talk!!!!!!

  79. Richard I have read what you have wrote on here and don’t mean to sound like a prick ok. But any animal can be killed even a human if you can get away without leaving evidence. Trust me these animals are not by no means stupid. In the woods it is their home and these animals they reason and work things out in their heads and who knows just how smart they really are. I am sure they are territorial within their own circle and guarantee you if they have family groups. I am also sure that they are they probably intermingle in family groups like immediate family. I have invested $8600 in flir technology and I can identify a target at 300yds. Even though unless in a field I would never take a shot. Am I above the opportunity to study them in their environment no. You don’t study them with a gun in hand. You could only study in their environment and they are smart enough to stay the hell away from the human race that is how they have protected themselves and been allowed to survive without human interference. So you take what I say any way you want but to study them you better be able to survive off the land. I can set snares and can identify 132 variety’s of edible plants. Some plants you can only eat if boiled and or leaves berry’s or you remove the bark and eat what is underneath. I have eaten everything from a grub to plants and roots. I grew up in the woods and have made about every type of shelter there is cause it was fun when I was growing up. Almost died when I was 11 cause we ate the wrong thing my best friend growing up had kidney failure and liver damage and still suffers the problems to this day. Had a liver transplant in 2001 all our other friends playing sports and running around growing up and we were trying to make fire and eating bugs i am at home in the nature environment. Went to school and studied biology and graduated and went on the road with my dad as a communications splicer and it was my fourth love in this world. Currently consult for land management organizations for the hunters out there. So if I come off as a ass to you sorry but I truly believe until there is a body the real preservation for the animal can’t be done then DNA proves the rest of the story. Just so you know one other thing I could put 3 rounds 2 in the chest and 1 in the head before a man will hit the ground. I also won nationals 3 yrs in a row. Short range combat with a 45 glock to 1000 meter long gun and was recruited by branches of the military but due to oz-goods disease on my knees failed the physical. I am a expert marksman and I love a challenge and anything to do with weapons. I have said to much and I will shut up and oh ya my favorite show was fear factor eat all that nasty shit I would have cleaned up. Later Richard

    • Well, if you get your sasquatch kill, I don’t want the DNA to test. Sorry.

      It is possible that Melba Ketchum will take it; however I’m no longer sure of that either.

      You could mount the specimen through Taxidermy.net? That would indeed be a unique trophy.

      Your survival skills are admirable. I had some of that as a youngster, but almost always based on fishing and boundary waters canoe area camping in Northeastern Minnesota–not as good as your background, to be sure.

      I’m 69 now so I’m not too sure I’m up to it, even if I knew how to survive in the wilderness with nothing but matches and clothing & maybe a hatchet.

      This week I head out to Northwestern Ontario on a fly-in fishing trip. This is not really roughing it; there is a cabin and the six of us will be the only ones on the lake (North Gull). We’re having walleye for dinner every day, man. What a life!

      Richard

      PS: I should let Anon speak for herself, but my guess is she wouldn’t want you anywhere near her habituation site. She is also interested in protecting these families of sasquai–including the males.

    • Maurice Cloud

      David, You have still not satisfactorily answered why it is ok in your eyes to murder — and make no mistake, that’s exactly what it is — a male Sasquatch but not a female. You have typed and typed and ty– well, you get my drift, about your extraordinary wood’s craft, but what’s missing is an explanation of your ethics other than a mention or two about how a kill, and, oh, it’s just a male so it’s ok!, would advance a DNA study. Please allow me to italicise what Richard said concerning this common misperception, to wit: we don’t need a body for that. And if you’ve seen these critters and know where they like to hang, is it not possible that you could do something besides size them up in your scope? You have very nice kit, isn’t there a camera in amongst all that stuff??? The germ of an idea is, kinda slowly, beginning to take form in these pages, that of piecing together a non-profit organization dedicated to the public documentation of the existence of Sasquatch that would ensure their receiving proper legislative and judicial protections . . . a goal you profess to share. So, how about it, wanna join that conversation . . ? Cheers!

      • My scope has a usb port which connects to a 5ft cord that connects to to a 4gb recorder it will all be on video. What haven’t I explained there in not one animal bug etc. that has not been killed in the name of science. How can laws be written to protect something you and I say exists. It’s existence has to be proven with a body and proven to the world it exists,as it it is today anyone can shoot and wound and or kill as many as they want. Do you think that man who is responsible for killing a momma and a baby would have seeing the animal would have killed either one of them if he would spend serious time in prison no. His friends probably would not have let him do it in the 1st place. He became scared after he committed his violent act and run. If he would have collected the body of either one we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. Shooting any animal is a violent act and science in many ways the things that have been done in the name of science are more violent than anything done today. Why aren’t you breaking chimps out of animal laboratories and calling those scientists murderers. Have you looked over how closely our genetic structure is to theirs. These animals are intelligent capable of all the same feelings me and you have. They live in family groups and act more human than you will ever know. In the name of science they have been subjected to drugs that have saved billions of lives but I don’t here you trying to save them. Pictures and DNA is not going to put any laws on the books to PROTECT them cause for every scientist who looks at video and looks at video and says they are real there will be a scientist who says just the opposite and there will be no laws written to protect the species. So I not only explained but have prove my point Maurice. I find it strange that Anon sits in a blind and these Bigfoot family comes back to the same place all the time. These animals might be in a area for a few days foraging and hunting but they won’t stay. As big as a Bigfoot is it will take a lot of food to sustain them. Animals in winter to summer follow the forage and go from the lowland to the highlands. As a wildlife biologist one thing I learned game is constantly following food resources. They use to say a deer never goes any further than 2 miles from where it was born. Today they know deer might travel 30 miles and take up residence on a totally different mountain range. It is called survival of the fittest. A excellent example and this would apply to a Bigfoot. A mountain lion has a huge territory and he will defend it with his life, if that cat stays in a area to long the deer and it prey move out. That is the reason these cats have such large territories with 10 or 12 females in his territory. So it stands to reason a male Bigfoot has this same lifestyle then again maybe they live in a family unit like chimps, guerrillas Etc. So in Anons case I find it hard to believe she sits in the same blind and observes them coming to the same place all the time. In the wild a routine gets you killed. If you want more facts I can quote facts all month long. So I not only answered your question but gave explanations and examples. Oh and Anon I am not calling you a liar but I find it hard to believe a animal as smart as a Bigfoot comes to the same place all the time. Anon says she doesn’t want ant credit etc. well I do and would like to go down in history as the person who proved there existence as forged ahead and by me a lobbyist in Washington DC and get the laws on the books to protect them. If you by a lobbyist and have the money behind him politicians will line up to suck my cock cause they will all want their name on it. To answer one other ? you brought up. The females produce young males can easily can be replaced, and a what if she is pregnant or has a baby elsewhere then you killed 2 not 1. In school we were studying raccoons we had to get a specimen and our professor told us a male only for that exact purpose it was early spring. Science is a violent act in it’s self but what we learn is evidently above your comprehension because you have to understand the reasoning behind it. In today’s terms how many adults and children have died in the name of science cause of cancer. So you remember that and the next time you take a antibiotic cause you are very sick how many animals died and people died so it would be safe to take. That is science and the same thing where a Bigfoot is concerned PROOF. I will be hunting in a grid this coming weekend and I will do more to protect the species with a kill than your talk will or Ketchum or Erickson will. If Ketchum and Erickson were truly interested in the protection of the species they would not be fighting over the video they say we will probably never see and the DNA results Etc. The more I read on that info. the less faith I put in it. Just my personal opinion. Something don’t smell right. Trust me I present DNA it will be done by professionals and 2 different sources and I will be in control no one will dictate to me the BS I’ve read about their fight is really about who gets credit and fame. I bet they are eccentric assholes the whole bunch of them Ketchum seems to have the most common sense. Oh and anyone can write a paper.

        • Maurice Cloud

          Yes, but not often well. Cheers!

        • Sorry David, I didn’t select “send email when relies are posted. And I suppose you have moved on. But, thank you (I think) for your offer of a Thermal scop[e and rifle. You should know however I do not hunt. I do eat meat and have in the past and currently, grow the animal which supplies my meat. As an Environmentalist people are often surprised I “choose” humans first. The interelationship of our ecosystems and a good human life today and in the future doesn’t always etch a clear path to gfollow…the mistakes of our past still haunting us today. So again thanks, but no thanks. I have no need to supply a body to science or the public. It would also be the antithesis of my program up there..to earn trust and learn the “ground rules” so that observation and study are allowed with permission. Odd to seek permission before study? Not really, it is necessary with all cogent animals (including human tribes) if one wants something more than physiological data. Sasquai are infinately more interesting alive than dead. And more valuable..perhaps in ways we do not yet understand. Anyway David, most of your posts deal with what you will do in the future…Godspeed if that is your direction. Otherwise its all just a long talk about a subject so few undertand is the real deal. I like the woodsmans comment…for many rural people Bigfoots are ordinary “hillbillies” or “wildmen.” It does seem our baby boomer citified 21st century views have colored this “research” and will continue to for some time…we alwasy do seem to think we are the center of everything!

  80. Jim simpson

    Cloud is nuts.

  81. David is obviously a sharpshooter, among other skills.

    He has an idea about how to use his sharpshooting skills to the benefit of science and the species. This idea will give him a kind-of excuse to kill a sasquatch, assuming he gets the chance with all his gear hooked up etc.

    David, I’m still not sure whether Ketchum will even accept your DNA from a kill, assuming you are successful. It may be a good idea to ask her first, maybe through David Paulides or the Olympic Project (Derek Randles).

    It would indeed be a shame if you actually shot one and no one would be willing to test the DNA? If you turn the body over to the “authorities”, all bets are off because I’m not sure how they would handle it. With as much evidence that these creatures exist out there, every fish & game and forestry expert in the employ of the U.S. or Canadian governments cannot possibly all think that sasquatch is a hoax or American Indian folklore.

    In other words, I suggest you have a game plan in place that has a good chance of working; otherwise, your “kill” may be whisked away by Uncle Sam or others with some kind of interest in NOT wanting to deal with another “super Spotted Owl” to the detriment of Big Business (logging, oil, gas drilling, etc.) and to give the “authorities” even more to protect than they already have.

    Richard

  82. Holy smokes. I couldn’t have said it better myself, Steve. My hat (and then some) goes off to you, good man.

    BTW, another article, about yet a different “human” haplotype, is coming out within the next 2 or 3 weeks at:

    http://www.ScienceAliveNews.com

    The new matrilineal sasquatch haplotype (mtDNA sample No. 3) doesn’t even come close to Samples 1 and 2. It is almost — but not quite — outside of modern human ranges.

    Stay tuned !

    Richard

  83. Maurice Cloud

    Cheers Steve! Allow me to echo Richard and lift a glass to you . . . very well and eloquently put! I believe that you have my e-address, let’s compare notes sometime . . .

  84. Steve:

    Just by chance, sir, ARE you related to Peter Byrne (one of the four horsemen of sasquatch research)?

    Richard

  85. Who said anything about Ketchum to process the DNA I would present. I would use the university I went to and talk to my professors and choose one lab for processing the DNA. Then the other would be a university that way i have 2 separate and independent sources. I would release the findings to Ketchum in person if she came to me. I would let her see it but not leave with any of the information. Based on what I have read about she has serious health problems. What i have read about Ketchum she is the only one with any common sense and is probably a nice person. Just got caught in in all the BS. I have not retired and work for myself because I was a dumass. By having 2 different DNA sources with the same results my argument is rock solid and I would have safeguards that protect my interests as well as my discovery.

  86. Steve I liked what you wrote and you said 35 have been reported killed. i will put it to you like this. I have a support plan people who know me and people who have known me all my life. The Bf will be removed in the form of the whole damn thing. The Smithsonian sounds good for all to see and for proof that they do exist. I will have molars and other sources of DNA put back and protected example PVC pipe and gps locations of samples. I have done a lot thought into this subject to protect the interests of this discovery if I make a kill. It would be a shame to find myself in the situation of being attacked by others of the same species but in that situation I have 30 rd clips and I would protect myself. It will be hooked up to a data recorder and I have a locater than when button is pressed dead or alive I can be found and there will be DNA everywhere at that point. That scenario would be a shame. Steve scroll up look over what I have written maybe if I am successful no more Bigfoots will be killed if I could get the laws on the books that protect them from. In my own words where the spooks people here seem to talk about fuckum I have pits a closed circuit video system daylight and dark capabilities. I have not paid a electric bill in 6yrs due to a windmill. When the power goes out due to weather I throw the breaker and the 41 mining batteries will provide 5 days of power if the windmill went offline. 3yrs ago when power went out and it was -5 degrees outside I had 25 people who stayed warm at my house til the power came back on. The power company pays me. I am about preservation of the species not politics and fuck those religious asses who would cringe at this discovery. So Steve i would be a very proud person if my legacy in this world if what I did was preserve and save the species from being destroyed because folks fear it instead of embrace it. So I want to here why I would be #21 and they would disappear or rot what are your theories about conspiracies to keep this discovery from the public and not just yours I want everyone to chime in on this cause I honestly want to here all of your opinions on the conspiracy theories. Not to criticize any of them but I would like to know. WHY IS MY ?????

  87. Ken Wilson

    Well said Unc!

  88. Ken Wilson

    David.. You might be making more sense than I originally thought, but I would have a really hard time pulling the trigger if I looked into his eyes. On my upcoming camping trip I plan to protect myself, which I doubt that I would ever need to, but I don’t believe that pepper spray will kill the magnificant creature. Thinking about it more the spray might just enrage the creature to the point of violence. Hmmmm. Maybe I’ll just make the peace offering of a Zagnut bar instead and hope for the best.

  89. jim simpson

    Also it apparently wouldn’t be such a good idea if you went into the woods riding a donkey.

  90. Whether horse, mule or donkey, it is my understanding the the sasquai are by and large quite fond of these animals.

    The religious aspect of these creatures is tantalizing. When I knew & communicated with Melba, very well at that, she was always going on and on about how she “knew” this creature represented an outcast giant from the bible, maybe in connection some story about Nebuchadnezzar. For example, when I told her what GenBank was telling us: 15,000 years ago for the mito Eve for both Samples 1 and 2, more or less, she was TOTALLY convinced it was about half that — trying to as hard as she could to place the newly discovered “species” AFTER the great flood, not before.

    I told her that by that time (maybe 6,000 or so years ago?), the continent of Beringia had disappeared and, accordingly, there was no Siberian North American land bridge. Then she thought maybe the sasquai had crossed the polar ice from Scandinavia, over to Iceland or Greenland, and down into North America that way, like the Paleo Eskimos did (but from the other direction as well). By then, I gave up and said we had to keep the study 100% scientific and “not try to place a square peg in a round hole” due to spiritual beliefs. However, she was, and probably still is, 100% convinced that her’s are not beliefs, but “scientific” facts that just happen to fit into biblical theology.

    Whatever.

    It will be interesting to see (if we even see anything published by her at all) how she has managed to spin the mitochondrial Eve of Sample 3, which is possibly as much as 60,000 or 70,000 years old and “Out of Africa” like the rest of us, to fit into biblical interpretations. More on Sample 3 around the middle of September, ladies and gentlemen. Stay tuned.

    Richard Stubstad
    http://www.ScienceAliveNews.com

  91. Jim Simpson

    That’s a wonderful story…appreciate hearing it. Maybe the squatch knew and was practicing his own version of “natural selection” knowing the mule was unable to produce anyway. Of course, if that were true, and if given the chance, I’ll bet your grandfather would have been his next meal. Although, my grandfather would have been much tougher to take out and eat than a mule anyway…per my grandmother. :>}

  92. Hi, folks. I tried to comment earlier this morning, but my comment disappeared. While I doubt that it was removed by Robert Lindsay, I’ll try again, so if I’m going out of line here, Robert, just remove it again.

    More likely, I just made a computer error.

    The religious aspect needs further examination. This is because, while I had a good-to-excellent relationship to Ketchum, it slowly but surely morphed into a religious discussion. The reason: Ketchum was, and probably still is, totally convinced that our creature is mentioned in the Bible as some kind of race of outcast, hairy giants. I am not a biblical expert by any stretch (I’m “only” a scientist), I seem to recall her mentioning a King Nebakanezer who was associated with some kind of outcast giants who hadn’t followed God’s law.

    As a result, when the analysis of the mito for Samples 1 and 2 were ongoing, the literature pointed to a mitochondrial Eve who lived about 15,000 years ago (plus or minus quite a lot) in sub-glacial Europe, for both samples. Ketchum vehemently disputed the scientific literature, and stated to me that the mito-Eve had to have existed MUCH later, to fit with biblical timetables–say just after the flood, maybe 6,000 or 7,000 years ago.

    I argued against this interpretation, since by then the continent of Beringia (where the Native Americans lived at the time, and ended up as we all know in North America as a result) didn’t exist any longer since sea levels were up around where they are today.

    She then went on to try to “fit a square peg into a round hole” as I put it, by saying the sasquai could have migrated across the polar ice cap and lands such as Iceland or Greenland, just as the Inuit apparently did (but from the other direction!).

    At that point, I gave up on the religious aspects of her arguments, since she remained 100% (not 99%) convinced that the sasquai were indeed biblical characters and that, eventually if not sooner, ALL scientific findings will fit into the stories told in the bible.

    It will indeed be interesting when I release the findings for Sample No. 3, which points to an “Out of Africa” mito-Eve as long ago as 60,000 to 70,000 years, to see how Ketchum gets around this one.

    Stay tuned, ladies and gentlemen. Look for a mid-September release of the mitochondrial analysis of (potential) sasquatch Sample 3, in comparison with Samples 1 and 2, on:

    http://www.ScienceAliveNews.com

    Richard Stubstad

  93. One more thing from my side:

    I am currently spearheading a “parallel” DNA study, but I need samples.

    The study will be conducted openly and objectively, with no “secrets” or NDA’s whatsoever. No one — or everyone — will get credit were credit is due.

    Meanwhile, I wish Ketchum the best of luck on her study. I too am afraid it will be severely tainted by all the secrecy and adversarial positioning, let alone a “kill” cover-up, so the peer reviewed aspects will prove more difficult than Ketchum could have ever realized.

    I mentioned this to her when we were still connected, but — no — she had a better idea, one that would lead to HER glorification (like David mentions, above but for different reasons), and no one else’s except by footnotes or references.

    Please get the word out to me somehow if anyone has a sample they do NOT want to send to Ketchum instead.

    No samples from kills, please. I do not want to be an accessory to a murder of even a partial human.

    Richard

  94. Well, to her credit, Ketchum did promise me she would keep the findings totally scientific, regardless of her religious beliefs or “facts”. On the other hand, she promised me (and others) all kinds of things, many of which she didn’t keep.

    She also seemed to realize that using a biblical “bent” would not work in a Scientific Journal. She may be what many call a “religious fanatic”, but she is still, at least in no small part, a good scientist — as long as she doesn’t try to fit a round peg into a square hole — or vice-versa.

    Only time will tell. I have no idea what is going on with her, and frankly I doubt that even her supporters have much of an idea, other than by virtue of what she chooses to tell them.

    Richard

    • I don’t believe in the Rapture.

      I’m a very scientific minded person, but the fact is that even though it makes no sense at all, Bigfoots must exist.

      Plus, you’re not allowed to insult me on here. Violation of comments rules.

      85% of Americans are Christians. You just said that 90% of Americans are stupid or fragile. Ridiculous.

  95. I know both of these folks quite well, especially Ketchum.

    I wouldn’t think that characterizing either of them as “nuts” is either appropriate or even true. A “nut” case would be like a Jehovah’s Witness who believes the entire universe was created within the last (say) 10,000 years, and Jehovah has simply “planted” dinosaur bones, etc., to mislead us heretics. Only the JW’s know the truth — just ask them.

    Neither Meldrum nor Ketchum are “fundamentalists”. They merely believe in their own respective religions, but they do NOT disbelieve science.

    I think though they may be hoping for a certain result vis-a-vis sasquatch; in Meldrum’s case, he’s hoping for something close to an Ape (chimp; gorilla, etc.) while in Ketchum’s case she’s hoping for a new species or “subhuman” that was outcast sometime a “few thousand” years ago.

    If something else pops up and is proven scientifically, however, they will both accept it and — knowing the type — somehow rationalize the scientific findings to fit into some kind of “new light” as the JW’s like to put it.

    And, no, they are DEFINITELY not hoaxers in the true sense of the word. They are NOT perpetrating any kind of hoax. But that won’t stop them from trying to fit round pegs into square holes (or vice-versa), as long as they have a chance to do so.

    Robert Lindsay knows all of this. Neither Robert nor I are at all “fooled” by these folks. We know the type all too well.

    Richard

  96. Indeed, folks. DON’T insult my buddy Robert Lindsay. That’s the rules.

    You ARE however allowed to insult me. I’m almost NEVER insulted (even when Ketchum calls me a “liar in public” as she put it.

    In all cases, I’m not insulted because all I have to do is consider the source. Water off a duck’s back.

    Therefore please direct your insults to me instead of Robert. We agree on maybe 90% of what we BELIEVE to be the case vis-a-vis sasquatch. So what Robert says I may have said to. Go ahead — here’s your target.

    Richard

  97. Mr. Lindsay,
    I enjoy this blog and I check in periodically to catch up… However I do not what to be notified by emial every time someone updates this site… ??
    How do I stop that while still allowing myself to check back when I want to?
    I did not check the “notify me” box and I believe you have me email address, so please send me a note with any instructions I may need to fix this minor problem….
    Thank you,
    JavaBob
    Thanks

  98. Well I have read these comments and like I said proving the existence is the only way to protect them. Yes the religious ramifications are huge. Killing one protects them by getting laws written. One kill could save thousands and perhaps prevent the killing of more. If I make a kill it will be done scientifically and the body will be cataloged.

  99. Hey Steve thanks for the blog site been reading off and on all day. The theory about closing the forests etc I really like that one it made a lot of sense to me. I still believe killing is needed for their protection and I think we can live in harmony with them. I just think people need to be aware that they have the right to live without being shot or wounded. with laws to make killing one and if caught severe prison sentence but there is no way laws will happen without proving their existence. I can still pull the trigger makes me rethink the way I would go about DNA and showing the body to prove it’s real.

  100. Thank you Robert, but because of my work and community envolvement, I get an average of 250 emails each day…. I do not have time to filter them all when I get another 10 or so from your site. That is why I only got to the site when I have the time to do so…. The rest of the time it simply clogs my computer and take up my time…. How do I get off of it and still be able to go back on my time to catch up?

  101. ChuckO

    Facinating stuff here!

  102. ChuckO

    It is odd. I have been a member on the Taxi.net forums for several years but haven’t been on there much in the last year or two.

    I can’t believe I missed all this about the bigfoot kills on there. I wish the thread were still available to read. And to think that it all started there and led to this today.

    I am curious to know how the info of the kill was accepeted on that site. Anyone know?

    I assume there were lots of jokes and ridicule. I am just curious if it were believed by anyone.

    I have corresponded with George Roof on taxidermy questions in the past on that site. Anyone know of his stance on the subject?

    • ws

      We know George Roof intervened on Smeja’s behalf to get the thread removed from the forum. It’s also pretty obvious from reading his other posts that he’s a bigfoot believer.

    • The members were ridiculing the whole story.

      Roof believes the story. He’s also seen one of these things once. An uncle of his also saw one.

  103. I am not sure what I am doing that is not allowing me to make my piont? I get way too many emails telling me every time a new entry on your site is made. I do not what them….. None… I just want to check your site when I have the time…. I have been interrupted about six times in the last hour or so and I am attempting to get my work done…. I get interrupted every time new email comes to my mail boxes…. Please help me stop them…..

  104. Thumper

    This thread s staying alive and oddly with no “known” Bigfooters (what are they called..the hunters?) posting. At least those that are supposed to know all about everything Bigfoot and aren’t in trouble with Ketchum.

    It seems an anxious community: on the one hand desiring validation for their views and on the other fearful another group shall lay claim to the prize. Few actually covering this story and all giving wide berth to their hoped for savior in Melba Ketchum, DVM.

    I hope she can deliver as the log jam has been huge and a yeah or nay – either way – is long overdue. if this fizzles, well, that is probably the reason even those outraged by some of the tactics of the various groups are keeping their websites vanilla milk…..they too desperate for any semblance of credibility, better to stay quiet and hope…

    Unfortunately, rolling out the critical reviews in advance could help.. a head’s up to problems and it appears there are a few – from provenance of samples, to ethics, to religion?

    I looked up Wikipedia’s entry on Bigfoot and found a rather short and almost opaque description. It seems a far cry from the claims of many Bigfoot websites and comments here.. Ape-like was the biggest adjective used. Goodall and Meldrum the only scientists identified. Perhaps the rewrite is waiting….

    What does Meldrum say about this study?

    Mr. Stubstad is saying Homo sapien based on mtDNA with a divergence from modern human mothers before 15000years ago? Sounds less ape-like than many old timers indicate and it is clear there are ape vs human camps of thought in the current groups.

    The religious comments of the Dr. doing the lab work are a concern in that it points to a hypothesis driving the data, yet still a charge that remains undefended. A similar charge leveled at all Bigfooters…”you went out looking and found? Must be biased data or a hoax then.”

    Yes, there are many references in the bible to Giants, even in Genesis. I thought the latest scoop on that was, In Fact they were ancient aliens?

    Even if not, for a Mesopotamian man with an average height of about 5′ even H.neanderthal might have seemed giant, certainly H. erectus did at 6′ and just a teenager (Turkan boy)…

    and of course all the people outside the 12 tribes weren’t God’s people according to Genesis and the Jews given strict instructions to not interbreed and to wipe out the residents of the land of milk and honey. Of course, they didn’t and the Book of Judges details their failures there…whew!

    Many fundamentalist Christians believe Cain’s line (killed his bro – explains 911 apparently) became today’s Islamic peoples…..so a jump to Bigfoot Giants seems trivial to them I am sure….beats dealing with evolution..

    Perhaps the oral traditions of the Bible extend to a time before the Flood and our memory of those other living hominids is reflected in the Bible…but, so?

    It’s 2011 and we have just one year left for human civilization…apparently Bigfoot will outlive us Unproven….
    born earlier and still around..or alternatively advance spies for the Grays….

    Of all the things Stubstad has written and I have read (which is not surprisingly all of it) this is disturbing news. It’s really Texas style, all of it, isn’t it?

    • The Wikipedia writeup is a catastrophe. It”s been taken over by skeptics for a long time now. For a long time, Bigfoot was listed under the Pseudoscience category. In the Talk about the article, the skeptics still insist that BF is pseudoscience and that the article reflects Wikipedia policy on this matter.

      Meldrum has not commented, and he did not return my phone call.

    • English Tutor

      I’d like to clarify a small error here…it is the descendents of Abraham’s son Ishmael (by his concubine Hagar) who thousands of years later formed the Islamic religion. Not Cain.

      I am a believing Christian, and yet somehow I am unafraid of the possibility of the existence of Sasquatch. Though I’m “old” and sedentary and don’t get out in the wild (and female, if anyone cares), I find the whole thing fascinating. I believe that “all truth is ultimately God’s Truth,” and though we humans are far from understanding everything in the universe, it is our privilege to pursue that understanding.

      I have always had a strong interest in anthropology, especially physical. Perhaps that’s why I’m so drawn to learn more about Sasquatch. I am educated, have taken classes in physical sciences, and probably SHOULD be trying harder to fit the “science” with my “beliefs” and vice-versa. But since we DON’T know all there is to know yet, and we still only see from a smallish human perspective, I prefer to “hold truths in tension” and keep my mind open enough to just learn all I can. I believe someday “it will all come out in the wash” and we’ll have the greater understanding we crave.

  105. Skylar

    This is a direct link to the Maple Ridge newspaper website..it allows you to view the original Erickson (sleeping BigFoot) frame and its clearer than any other photo ive seen.

  106. Jim Simpson

    The photo looks like a labradoodle napping, yet I do believe in sasquatch. It’s the problem with photos, to easily discounted.

    The goal of killing one to protect it is what stuns me. Thank God we only have one planet to protect. The old saying “live by the sword die by the sword”, then updated to “live by the gun die by the gun” should now be updated to “live by the IR scope, digital camera equipped high power 30 mag clip gun to die by being torn asunder by the wounded, angry red eyed giant 1,000 pound monster and his pissed off family members that have chased you down before you could even think of pushing a button or trigger on your dumbass weaponry” will, no doubt be the new version after one of these things is finally killed.

  107. ChuckO

    Since we have a few on here that understand DNA and genes I thought I’d ask this.

    I understand that if you cross a lion with a tiger you get a Liger. I forget but one species has to be the male and the other the female to get off spring that end up growing much larger than either species. Something about a recessive gene or something. Like I said, I don’t know diddly about genes and whatnot, just something I always wondered about bigfoot ever since the first time I saw liger and heard of why they get so big.

    I wonder if this human and ??? cross does something to the size of the offspring? Similar to the mule and liger.

    • Gary B

      Ligers exist only in captivity. Their homeranges do not overlap and they are generally considerd to be sterile although there is one instance of one offspring reaching adulthood. What this has to do with the existance of bigfoot I don’t know. It seems another straw grasped at in what passes for bigfoot science.

    • The analogy isn’t a very good one.

      In the first place, the two “subspecies” that eventually made up what we call sasquatch today (homo sapiens sapiens and some other hominid, probably), obviously did not become sterile, like the liger and the donkey. It appears to be completely potent & fully able to reproduce, whether with a “modern” human or one of their own kind.

      I doubt that the sasquatch is very far from know humans, genetically, whether on the mitochondiral or nuclear side. On the nuclear side, however, there will undoubtedly be some significant differences.

      I believe only Ketchum knows these differences at this time; it’s even doubtful her co-authors know much about it. In fact, no one even knows who her coauthors are!

      The “northern” sasquai have probably become large due to environmental needs. They don’t wear clothes and don’t build fires. The further north one of these creatures lives, the larger they have to be to survive and thrive. Just like a polar bear is larger than a grizzly bear which is in turn larger than a black bear. It all came out of where they developed over the eons of time.

      All three are bears. Both the sasquatch and modern humans are hominids. The only question is: how are the two ; extant hominids related? How close, genetically, are we to a sasquatch? On the mito side, VERY close. In fact in most cases overlapping. On the nuclear side–well, we’ll see.

      Richard

      • ws

        Richard,

        Do you remember the date Ketchum asked you to sign the new NDA? How long was it after you first heard the shooting story?

        Thanks.

  108. ChuckO

    I do know that mules are sterile but I am usure if that happens to other crosses.

  109. Jim Simpson

    Culture to culture it has always been assumed that bigger equaled dumber. We celebrate that in so many aspects (basketball, football, military, wrestling, etc.) and few of us would recognize those assumptions. However, and without belaboring the point beyond the obvious, if you look at the statistical physical attributes of Nobel Prize winners, it is quite possibly true that “something” is lost to qain in size. (Sasquatch?)

  110. Jim Simpson

    I hear they’re very small in many ways. But they have big retirement plans.

  111. I appreciate the idea of a cross, or hybrid, that possibly resulted in what we now know as sasquatch. The example given was a cross between a lion and a tiger, which is A PROPOS — as far as it goes. However, this particular cross results in sterile hybrid animals, just like when a mule and a horse are crossed, so that’s not exactly a correct analogy. Most likely, everything species and subspecies on earth started as a viable cross between this-and-that, with subsequent mutations galore. Even though most hybrids result in sterile offspring that obviously reach a genetic dead-end, occasionally this is not the case—obviously. Such is very likely the case with sasquatch, see the following link for an excellent write-up by David Claerr on precisely this subject:

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/8224563/bigfoot_dna_report_analysis_2011.html?cat=58

    This guy is brilliant and obviously knows a lot more about the subject than I do.

    However—the main point here is this:

    WE DON’T KNOW HOW SUCCESSFUL MELBA KETCHUM WILL BE FOR A WIDE VARIETY OF REASONS, NOT EVEN COUNTING THE RELIGIOUS OR “ALIEN” ISSUES, WHICH I DON’T BELIEVE WILL BE AN ISSUE FOR HER, BECAUSE SHE WILL NOT GO THERE AT ALL, REGARDLESS OF HER BELIEFS OR PREJUDICES. THE FACT IS THAT WE, AS AN “OUTSIDE OF MELBA’S CONTROL” GROUP, SIMPLY HAVE TO GET THE JOB DONE WITH OR WITHOUT HER. TO THAT END, WE NEED VIABLE DNA SAMPLES FROM REAL SASQUAI. WE HAVE ALREADY ARRANGED FOR A COMPLETELY NEUTRAL LAB, IN EUROPE, TO TEST THESE SAMPLES, INCLUDING THE NUCLEAR DNA. THIS NO-COST AND NO-AGENDA DNA PROJECT IS NEEDED WHETHER KETCHUM IS SUCCESSFUL OR NOT, BECAUSE HER REPORT WILL, AT BEST, CREATE FAR MORE CONTROVERSY THAN EVEN EXISTS TODAY FOR A VERY WIDE VARIETY OF REASONS.

    ON THE ONE HAND, OUR AD-HOC EUROPEAN STUDY WILL QUITE POSSIBLY VERIFY HER RESULTS AND GIVE CREDENCE TO HER CONCLUSIONS (OR NOT). ON THE OTHER HAND, IF SHE IS TIED UP FOR WHATEVER REASON ON HER REPORT, WE’LL HAVE “OUR” REPORT DONE AND PUBLISHED (BY THE RESEARCH INSTITUTION) IN THE MEANTIME.

    SAMPLES, PLEASE !!!

    Richard Stubstad

    • ws

      Richard,

      I can’t help but think Claerr’s article might be a preview of Ketchum’s findings. He doesn’t reveal his sources but I know Claerr is a “good friend” with someone that worked with both you and Ketchum. Also, a poster under NDA with Erickson (with supposed knowledge of the DNA results) linked to the Claerr’s article on a bigfoot forum, labeling it “interesting reading”. It’s also curious that Claerr uses a type of horse to illustrate his concept of a “Progenitor Species”. Ketchum, as you probably know, is involved in the “Horse Genome Project”.

      Now I don’t know if that article was a trial balloon, based on leaked information or completely made up. The genetic information he reveals (the bit about the two extra chromosomes) hasn’t been mentioned anywhere else that I know of. Where did Claerr get that data? How did he come up with the whole Progenitor Species hypothesis? Not bad for a graphic artist. Any thoughts?

      WS

  112. Fair Enough..shout it out

    Okay I like your thoughts there and hope you get those samples. Are any of the various Bigfoot people responding positively to this set up? Excellent idea and independant of any bad blood or complaints, such a study will be forthcoming from someone regardless.
    The hallmark of scientific method is repeatability.
    Seems most of the people involved have extra samples.. .the phase 2 older stuff and the fresh quantities you spoke about? If they don’t help with another study then perhaps your claim is true, that they don’t own even future sample testing? I think if true, that will be a hard element of an NDA to enforce in any way, from legaly to practically.
    Wish I had a sample to send you, but my spouse refuses to supply what I am certain is a high percent of Neanderthal and so probably Bigfoot related..

  113. Hell ya send samples to England. You better take a long hard look at their laws concerning DNA extraction. You will never see those results everything in that part of the world the government has their hands in it. Whether a lab or a University it will disappear and as tight as the two governments are if you think there are BF cover ups in the US it will never get off the ground before something happens. All the DNA that has been turned in concerning big cats what happens to it. Never seen a house cat lay out a pile of scat 2in tall and 3in in diameter. The video of a black leopard after it killed the persons sheep in the field you don’t have to be a genius to figure out that isn’t a house cat that killed those those sheep. Same circumstances in this country if you prove it exists then you have to deal with it. Be back in a few days look forward to reading what everyone is thinking.

  114. clanon

    Well, if I killed a Bigfoot of any age, I’d call National Enquirer immediately and make some big bucks. If anyone had solid evidence, why hide it ? And if I happened to shoot it in one of the protected areas, who cares ? The extra publicity would just make me more $$.

    The details about the driver & the shooter are pretty funny.

  115. clanon

    back again. although I believe Bigboot exists, I think this whole website is a joke in so many ways. Unfortunately it is meant to be serious apparently.

    When I shoot one of those things which I certainly intend to, there will be none of this he shot it, no he didn’t, I saw it, no you didn’t, I have DNA , no you don’t, I have pictures, no you don’t. it will just be dead & on the front page. And I guarantee no ‘bigfoot hunter’ or ‘bigfoot researcher’ from anywhere will have their picture next to mine.

    The only question to be answered is do I use a .375 or a heavy 30/06 ? If I can hire a native gunbearer it will be the .375. He can call me Bwana. My friends will call me Jungle Jim. Of course we need another packer to carry the tent, since we all know Bigbootie loves to look in tents. Maybe I can rig a pit with chloroform like they did with King Kong. That means I need diggers too, I’m sure not gonna dig. Any volunteers ? Bring your own shovel.

    This does sound like King Kong, the first version. I just need to find a cute blonde. And I will bring 100 rounds just in case the whole fam damily of bigtootses show up. And a Bowie knife. Maybe a big wooden axe like they used in Last of the Mohicans.

    Forget all that stuff, I’ll just bring the .416 BAR, reach out & touch him. close your ears.

    You know I like this site better & better. but you still don’t get any credit.

  116. Brian Doon

    This blog is so unprofessional…no wonder most folks with any intelligene are Bf skeptics. Tighten up!

    When I was recently informed that zoos account for only 450 Big Cats but in the USA alone there are 7000 privately owned Big Cats I could not help but think our BF sightings are in reality discarded chimps, rangatangs or gorillas or a first generation spawned in North Amerian wilds by the esaped “convicts” from private ownership. Maybe the Pattersom film is so damn good because it is an ape of some kind or a hybrid ape…not native , just liberated.

    • Maurice Cloud

      “So unprofessional,” says the chap who believes that the Pacific Northwest is inhabited by colonies of liberated, hybrid great apes . . . you know the offspring of gone native gibbons and Dano, err, macaques, gorillas and howlers . . . One thing to have an opinion Brian, quite another to rip someone based on your own specious reasoning. Cheers!

  117. Skylar

    To be honest I describe myself as a “hopeful” Skeptic, living in southern Va I have never talked anyone who has claimed to see a BigFoot…until Tonight.
    I was on the phone with a representative from Direct Tv reprogramming my satillite and in the course of our converastion i asked her where her call center was based and she said Oregan..so I jokingly asked her if she had ever seen Big Foot and there was an immediate pause.
    She went on to tell me that she grew up in a small
    town named Winston..and that she has seen what she believed to be Big Foot twice..once when she was about 12 her family was driving down the high way in an area known as 10 mile creek..and she saw in crossing the road..she said it walked with a steady even gait unhurried and turned to look in the direction of the car she was in then continued off the side of the road into the surrounding forest one point tht she kept
    emphasizing was how massive the creature was…
    The second time she saw it was when she was on a camping trip

  118. Skylar

    She said she was in her early twenties camping at “Fish” lake and after dark they were sitting around the camp fire..and started hearing grunts and rustling in the darkness..she said it definately sounded like a very large animal….all she saw on that occasion was 2 large yellow eyes..and in the morning the group discover very large foot prints in the spot where the creature was seen…..
    So who knows?..why would someone a customer service call take the time to tell me a total stranger about her experiences?. i definately had the strong impression that whatever she saw she truely believed in what she was telling me.

  119. apehuman

    nice quote Steve, nice post.
    The oddest thing about reporting a BF sighting? Beyond no one in authority to “tell” is the sad fact that people who you thought respected or trusted you don’t believe you. Family, friends, people who know your accomplishments and outlook..in my case rooted in formal science training and personal wilderness experience, say the rudest things and feel smart about it…because of course they haven’t been “sucked in” by such a “ridiculous” myth…and you are!
    It’s the Emporer’s Clothes in many ways.
    My personal witness to BF’s and the tons of extrinsic evidence anyone with the resolve can uncover…and swiftly, did eventually met those closest to me…it was tough though even getting them to look at the evidence seriously….but they do now and accept it.
    The disbelief of Bigfoots is rooted somehow in our society as “myth” and seems gets a bit of help from those with interests to keep this hidden…a conspiracy? Probably not, just individuals in positions to obscure and the many followers for the reasons Steve stated above. Abd Bigfoot “researchers” themselves….such a strange assortment of people and those most vocal often the most bizarre. Also, something happened to us as a society after WWII – or nuclear power and the space program…I think we just began to think of ourselves as so “smart” we quit really thinking outside the box…and the conventional rules of academia prevent much independent thinking on subjects that don’t have a clear path to funding….
    The Prof (a big cheese in human evolution) I relentlessly bothered for three years told me, “I can’t take you as a grad student on this topic because we can only get funding for problems we can solve.” Well, it came out weird and I don’t think she meant it quite that way, but she was alluding to the reality of academic funding..has to be a popular pursuit….

    The BFRO has taken over 25,ooo reports alone of which only about 3,000 or so (you can find numbers on their website) “vetted” by their team of volunteer researchers. I was Google Earthing back when it was first released and the BFRO “footprints” popped up…eventually from the early 2000’s to 2008 I read almost all those reports. I recognized a sincerity in the voices that made me go look for myself..and walla. They are there and quite easy to approach if you use your intelligence. Try Robert Morgan’s “Bigfoot Field Guide” for a start….it works.

    For those of you enjoying your superior and erudite minds as “non-believers” just allow the smallest measure of doubt for your certainty..it will make your fall more graceful!

  120. Maurice Cloud

    Very well said Steve. I would add that scepticism is a necessary element in many scientific endeavours but that when it becomes a wall it ceases to be scepticism and has instead morphed into its own peculiar irrationality . . . Cheers!

  121. apehuman

    as long as I am still writing to the few reading this I will add a thought….

    There are fewer humans in the wilderness today than 100 years ago. Subsistance hunting, prospecting, trapping and pioneer families/ranchers/cowboys, etc were all armed and bent on taming the wilderness. However, as we now live in Cities (over 70% of Americans now live in city or suburb and only 1-2% on family farms) and our ventures into wilderness are often on well marked trails. The Wilderness system itself…born after the 1967 “Patti” film, which forbids motors, etc and hunting in Wilderness effectively protected their core territories for the last 40 years. Aprroximately 2-3% of Forest Roads are closed each year…from a wide open forest pre-1975 (in my area in the 70-‘s I could 4×4 almost anywhere on old loggin roads…all closed now) you will find most National Forests quite limited to vehicle access. And modern humans (even bigtime hunters) aren’t quite as skilled in the wilds as we think. Not many spend weeks hunting….it’s hike in 5 hours, post for a few and head back.
    Additionally, Bigfoots OWN the night. They live in a parrallel world of sorts when we are around and move effortlessly at night. We on the other hand require lights and can’t see beyond the throw of our flashlights or campfires or porch lights. We retire with the sun and awaken…

    THINK in terms of evolution….or the old saying “nature abhors a vacuum” and this hominid…H.sapien leaves a vast vacuum in the ecosystem at night…it only makes sense a similar species/predator would fill our role in those areas we don’t…night and the wild and remote places.

    In the 70’s there were no coyotes in the Midwest (i was born on farm) but sometime after they migrated into the NE (and may be responsible for the “red wolf” a coyote hybrid and possibly the type that killed the female jogger in the NE last year). Why? Perhaps 2 reasons involved among others: 1. we eliminated their main competing species..the wolf and 2. we created a corridor of opportunity through our own expansions (coyotes benefit from human activity as opportunists).

    Bigfoot seems to be all over the US now (I am not joking)..;Lief Erickson notes in his journal a Large Hairy breed of people who would only run away when he approached…..the stories guys go back so far…

    and I postulate that btw our retreat from the Wilderness and the protection our Forest system provides..and their own opportunistic abilities, that the BF populations have increased in areas outside the NW. I am in the group I guess that believes they have benefited from our behavior the last 50 years (sans the destruction of virgin habitats, etc…oh, and BF killers…and BF researchers ;)) and so I am conflicted about our Government, which surely knows…again the Robert Lyle Laverty connection at a minimum.

    Okay..time to move on…thanks for the time you have given me and serious consideration of my views.

    • All well said, Ape Human!

      Nice to talk to you again; I’m back from an EXCELLENT fishing trip to NW Ontario (fly-in).

      What was so nice about it? NO BUGS, NO MOSQUITOES. Why? Dry summer with no standing water. Even so, the fishing was still quite good.

      Walleyes for dinner EVERY EVENING. Etc., etc.

      No sasquai; but what did I expect? That far north, where the snow is usually deep and down to minus 40, whether degrees F or C.

      Richard Stubstad

      PS: SAMPLES PLEASE !!! WE ARE EVER SO CLOSE.

    • Lyn Bentson

      I like what you’ve said, “ApeHuman” especially when you point out how the wilderness areas in this country are far more extensive than many people realize. The big cities are growing larger, and the small towns slowly shrinking.
      You make a good point, too, about Bigfoot filling “the night niche” in the ecosystem. You may be on the track, too, when you suggest that the Bigfoot population may be far larger and more extensive in range than previously “accepted.”

  122. Hey Clanon well as you see by peoples comments and I agree your comments are very unprofessional. I am currently hunting with intentions of killing a BF but the difference between me and you I want to kill the animal to prove it’s existence and seek laws to protect the animal. You want to kill one to say you did it and it is all about $ to you. That tells me that you are no different than the losers who have killed them and then did nothing. Your King Kong pit tells me you are a stupid shit with the intelligence of a pile of shit. Losers like you are a dime a dozen and the next time I wipe my ass I will think of you a retard cause that is all the intelligence I see from you.

  123. Ken Wilson

    Hey Robert… Any updates on the Erickson Project? My recent camping trip revealed absolutely nothing. Had a great trip but was hoping for some squatch related stuff.

  124. Ken Wilson

    Bummer. I’m on my way to a vacation as well, but doubt that I’ll discover any bigfoot evidence on a golf course in Myrtle Beach…

    • Maurice Cloud

      Cheers Ken. You sound just a bit tee’d off(which, according to your friends, is about par for the course) so if it’ll help you iron out your difficulties may I suggest you keep an eye out for Bogey(he and his friends Chip and Hook like to drop in for a quick bite) while you’re puttering a round, but be fore warned, they always lie through their teeth if you’re in a mood to pitch anything to them! As for our friend Biggy F., well, that could be rough . . . probably a better chance to spot that incredibly rare birdey the Myrtle Eagle. If you wood, try to find a pair o’ normal guys and see if they’ll hazard a guess where the best spot to lie in wait might be. But remember that gophers, err, golfers, tend to think of us as ‘fringe’, a prejudice you might overcome if you provide them links to the best Sasquatch sites . . . Anyway. The long and short of it is that one sweet spot for you to aim at might be the sand traps. Should you find a hole in one bag it and cart it away! Have a great time my friend . . .

      • Ken Wilson

        Maurice,
        Very nice prose, and funny too! I had a blast on vacation, but never found the elusive Eagle. I did however see a couple of Birdies and got an extensive look at the flora surrounding the courses.
        Thanks for your well wishes. Back to work I’m afraid.

  125. i just had an anxious moment today…funny.. I have been intuitively convinced something will show up in Bigfoot DNA that is not such a hard sell as diving into statistics, etc to come up with a “variant” of us….like maybe missing the HAR1(sp?) or FoxB2..(what other “unique” human markers?)..

    and then today I just had a deja vu moment…as I recall how many times claims have been made before…and if the EP film was so good why not release it, etc..?

    you should check out MK Davis blog (via http://www.bigfootencounters what’s new page) for his latest on the PG film..interesting work and honing in on the inconsistencies in that tale…..

    God, I just wish someone would disclose fully for once in this field!

    (lol nws you Richard..)….

    AND given the “open Access” with which the recent Australopithecus sediba fossil find was handled (access to any researcher even before peer review. according to scientists on NPR last week) the BF crowd and NDAs seem archaic and last century…

    …humm, so it is the movement these days, esp within anthro and genome communities…..it was open access that allowed Ketchum to review H. sapiens neanderthal, etc genomes……wonder if she has posted her genome work or will?

    how does that all work anyway…the “open access” movement.. I see it attached to many throughout anthropology these days…

    on the other hand couldn’t help but notice a very young and made-up Ketchum profile photo on Facebook just a day or so ago…
    so, why else would she post a thinner younger version? I mean her other pictures are a typical slightly overweight middle aged woman and who cares? She does…so perhaps she expects to hit a Big Note.

    .I am willing to believe it will be a big splash b/c I need it to be…or I will forever remember Bindernagel’s comments about waiting on this…..

    In boredom I found a forum (I think is was Jrandi or such) in which one poster claims Ketchum was being sued by the firm who held the patent for a particular assay……I think perhaps around some old BF show…is that old news… lol? what was the outcome?

    • Ape Human:

      I’m a bit bummed out because I entered a response yesterday, but lost it due to a piss-poor “airport wireless connection”. Here goes again, albeit more briefly:

      Ketchum photos: I don’t know why she is doing this, but I suspect more than a bit of vanity is involved. What does a photo or two have to do with sasquatch research anyway?

      Re. specific genes on the nuclear side — probably you are spot on; however I have only seen the test results from a single nuclear gene, and it wasn’t one of these. The test results from this particular gene (about 500 pairs) showed pretty much the same as the mtDNA results — within human ranges, but all three results I saw were/are unique to GenBank. Two of the three were identical to one-another, and the third one had a single difference. Still, all three were new to GenBank but within human ranges.

      Certainly, other nuclear results are showing significant differences, but no one (I even doubt whether Melba’s co-authors know) knows which genes or to what extent. So much for the idea of “open access”.

      What we badly need now is to GET MORE SAMPLES. The tests that will be (and are currently) being run in Europe will be 100% OPEN ACCESS. That is the idea.

      So, PLEASE, Ape Human, get back up to your private & secret habituation location in one of our neighboring states and GET A SAMPLE OR TWO. Saliva is just fine, for example put out some apples that have been STERILIZED and collect the scraps in a sterile paper or cardboard container. THERE IS NOTHING YOU CAN DO THAT WILL HELP THE CAUSE MORE THAN THIS.

      We all “know” that sasquatch exists. Melba may or may not be successful in her highly exclusive approach. Even if she is successful, we will — very quickly indeed — need to verify (or reject) her results, because the controversy will be deafening.

      Trust me — the opposition to this is both political and scientific. But we can overcome.

      Richard

      • apehuman

        Sorry slow getting back. And grateful for all your answers and depth. I too heard things were held up, but for a different reasons… of which may or may not be true…who knows? I don’t.

        As for getting back to the site, it’s on my mind. But, I really want someone to loan me a FLIR to add to the effort. I have enough tracks, sound, etc….for me and a great story (but not proof, eh?) a compelling, but poor, video and a crappy FLIR… I can improve on the FLIR significantly….

        . So, if you can get someone to loan me a 7i FLIr or equivalent….then perhaps I can figure out how to afford. My thoughts recently, give it this Fall…and go back in Spring…absence makes the heart grow fonder….

        How long do you think any organic type samples, such as saliva, would last exposed to air, etc? it was my impression I had just a few weeks or days on the “plate” sample?

        I could be talked into this….maybe. Richard, like Ken and others below, I have had moments here recently ..well, thinking perhaps …oh, I don’t know! I just think btw the profit/fame seekers and a concerted effort by the Interior department and our own arrogance as a society..well, this may take a lot more than I had hoped….and I am not sure I want any association with the Bigfoot world….

        I can’t be the only one that pulls back…horrified at some of the BS out there, and behaviors and just look away?

  126. While I’m certainly willing to look up the dates requested, may I first ask: Who is “WS”?

    Thanks,

    Richard

    • ws

      I’m wondering if Ketchum’s high-powered representation and restrictive NDAs might have been related to something found in the woods of the High Sierras. She already had plenty of usable samples and had been sailing along quite happily for some time. So why the sudden course change? I can’t help but think she was presented with something more definitive (at least to the general public) than DNA from toe nails, hair and a tiny bit of flesh.

      In answer to your question, I’m a private speculator.

  127. ws:

    Related; certainly. The only causal factor, not really.

    Melba first hired her own attorney to represent herself sometime around August or early September of 2010 — before the “Sierra Kills” incident. Prior to that, not only I but others as well were working quite well together. We had discussed getting a collective attorney to represent ALL of us, together, for media (not scientific) purposes. That’s when Melba hired her own SET of attorneys, even though we all pointed out that the result would be the adversarial system & almost certain litigation, which best represents the legal system & the attorneys, not us scientists.

    When she received the “bigfoot steak”, that did though put the nail in the coffin. This was early November, 2010. Prior to this, I had sent Melba the same NDA agreement we worked under for the nine months or so (it expired), but with a lengthened expiration date. She rejected it and sent me one of her absolutely untenable (except from her point of view) NDA’s, which gave her 99.9% of all rights and me 0.1% if any.

    My attorney just laughed. I was sad. That was that.

    Now, we must move forward with OTHER SAMPLES, and wish Melba the best.

    Richard

  128. Ken Wilson

    I am growing weary of waiting for news regarding the Erickson Project. A whole lot of conjecture and no proof yet. Not even a nugget to keep me involved . Very disappointing thus far. I’m beginning to question my own beliefs.

  129. goodkarmagirl

    I, too, wait. Day by day. Waiting on something exciting. I have this fantasy: I think two men in black suits walked into Melba’s lab and sat on the edge of her desk. They said “Look, Melba. You can’t go public. You know it and we know it. Don’t make us have to make this difficult.” I can’t help myself. Just a fantasy. No matter how long we have to wait, be it forever, I will always believe. I always have. No since changing courses now. It’s’ rawther’ exciting.

    • Ken Wilson

      Nice fantasy…but it was exciting a month or two ago. Now it’s mundane, however I will continue to believe, I guess that’s a personality flaw. I told all of my unbelieving friends that they were soon to be disproven only to have that sand kicked in my face yet again. UGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!! I have a fantasy myself. It’s Melba walking into the CNN newsroom with DNA results followed up by incredible video of a number of squatches eating mice and deer parts while smirking at the camera. I guess I’m an idealist.

      • Maurice Cloud

        Don’t abandon ship Ken, there is movement, movement as measured by science mind you but movement nonetheless. Not sure really what Erickson is thinking. As regards Ketchum it seems to me that he ought to have long since said, “Sod her!” and released his videos, etc . . . But only Erickson can tell us what Erickson is thinking and he, like Ketchum, is as silent as the South Pole on a windless day. Irritating. As far as fantasies go . . . . mine is that the sasquatch start to release their vids and trail cam shots. Now wouldn’t that be amusing??? Cheers!

  130. goodkarmagirl

    …sense…

  131. Ken:

    The Erickson Project went as planned through around the end of 2010. They had their video footage, it was the best I’ve seen, and they had (I believe) six viable sasquatch samples from several of their habituation sites.

    They send these samples to Melba Ketchum, and after she tested the first two of these (plus two from other contributors), she decided not to give Adrian, me, or anyone else any more test resits, even though he paid the Big Bucks for her to do this testing.

    Due to a poorly-worded NDA between the two of them, and to the hiring of several lawyers by Ketchum, both parties’ hand are tied to move forward in any significant way.

    In my view, this does not detract from the excellent work that Adrian & his team have done over the last six years or so.

    Fortunately, however, we do have some of their results and can conclude that both his data and the Erickson project videos are the real deal with a 96% or 97% certainty, statistically speaking. If we had all of Adrian’s data, I believe that this certainty level would rise to 100.0% — but we don’t.

    Please read all three attachments in:

    http://www.ScienceAliveNews.com

    Some (but not all) of these data were from the Erickson study. This should perk your interest sufficiently, notwithstanding what Ketchum does or doesn’t do with Adrian’s data, and when she does so (if ever).

    We are also planning a parallel study whether her study succeeds or not. If it does, she’ll probably need all the supporting studies she can get; I doubt if her approach is scientifically acceptable to outside (peer) reviewers.

    Richard Stubstad

    • Ken Wilson

      Thanks Richard for keeping us informed, however when I click on the above link and the subsequent links all that shows up is a blank page. I guess Big Brother is onto you.

  132. As to why Adrian doesn’t move forward, at least not yet–

    It has to do with his rather unfortunately worded NDA with Melba.

    The good news is: the NDA, as written and signed, isn’t very well worded from Melba’s point of view either.

    Thus this bit of a stand-off.

    Once we get going on the parallel study, however, I’m pretty sure things will change … either that or Melba WILL come out with something-or-other.

    Or both.

    Richard

    • Maurice Cloud

      Cheers Richard! Am I mistaken in that Erickson’s NDA with Kertchum — and let’s hope we’ve seen the last of anyone signing one of those with her — does not extend to his videos, that he is free to release them anytime he’s of a mind to . . ?

  133. Maurice:

    That unfortunately is unclear from the wording.

    It would be a matter of legal interpretation. That’s exactly the situation the lawyers LOVE.

    Which is essentially why there’s no movement. Plus the fact I’m not convinced that Melba CAN pass peer review based on her non-corroborative work ethic.

    Richard

  134. David

    You can present all the DNA and videos you want. For every scientist that says it is true the will be twice as many who will say not so fast. Still have the same problem until scientists have a body and a complete autopsy and all the organs logged and verified it will never be proven that Bigfoot exists. A body will prove that and it won’t be able to be disputed and that will prove the existence of BF. Until that happens it will be no different than UFO’s we know they exist and are out there but the government covers all that up to. So remember without a body it is all conjecture and BS cause DNA will not take away the sceptics and the scientists. I liked the fantasy about to people in black suits had a talk with her. It is not that far out if the government wants you gone they make great heart attacks and that is all she wrote. Just remember freedom of the press is BS freedom of speech is BS in the right circles. That is why huge corporations have so much $ invested in HLN,Fox,ABC,CBS and NBC. There are all kinds of stories that naver go any further than words due to government control and these huge corporations that own interests in the news organizations. Welcome to the real world my dad knew 1st hand about the heart attack clause. Military in communications he heard things and saw things and was nervous when it came to the government and military intelligence. He is dead now but he always said if the government wants to put a stop to a story it will end there. That is why the press doesn’t talk about certain things and doesn’t report on certain things and if they do it will be with their permission. Just remember the more info. released about BF on these talk blogs the more you help them to do their jobs because if they really are covering things up on this subject this is already easy to take care of cause of all the skeptics.

  135. Ken:

    You are the second person that hasn’t been able to get onto my web page. I just tried again, both in Firefox and Explorer, and both worked.

    If you can get an email to me (I have no idea how except through Robert Lindsay), I will email you all three PDF’s.

    Sorry for the internet screw-up; I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, however.

    Richard

  136. apehuman

    To David;

    Prior to learning Bigfoots do exist I disregarded most comments people made about “Black Government,” etc (in spite of Vietnam and Watergate and the 2000elecction…and so on)…..

    but this knowledge, firsthand, that Bigfoots are real and have been around a very long time really has forced me to see this needless, covert action by my Government, on something as harmless as Bigfoots…

    and of course that takes me to….how much secrecy is there on things that really matter? Like wars or UFO’s? ….and I open my wallet for Wikileaks.

    so yeah it pushes one toward a very jaded worldview…

    seems that I have 2 choices 1) trust my Government and let go of the knowledge, believing that my Gov can do “better” for BF’s than me sharing what I know……or 2) help make my Government face the consequences of an informed electorate and all the hard work of legislating “protection/control” of the Bigfoot Problem openly and honestly….by helping however I can…

    (even if my contribution to that “truth” will largely be ignored ….or misused)

    so between these thoughts.. I think, “this is a sweet secret, who cares if anyone knows…a BF sang to you…alone, in the forest…for all the universe to hear…and me alone.” The experiences over the many many trips is sweet. Maybe that is more than I can ask for, really. I had the experience…and developed a kind of relationship of sorts. Overcame fears, etc….it was a big three years for me really.

    I think I finally get the biblical line, “throwing pearls before swine…less they turn and eat you,” …(or something like that) Naively, like Bindernagel, I actually thought those in the appropriate fields would be excited about the knowledge!

    so what now? I think just waqit….see if EP/Paulides/Ketchum add any moe to the data pool.

  137. Ape Human:

    I don’t mind communicating here “in public” as it were, so folks can see where both of us are coming from.

    I sense that you are sincere, and I believe you sense the same thing with me.

    Regarding your email, below, I will ask my son Paavo who lives in Truckee what we can do about a good camera set-up to lend you. I’m not sure what he’ll say, but we’ll see. His mountain biking season ends in one more week, so he may be ok (he films a lot of mountain biking videos & puts them on the internet for all to view).

    He is a “nominal” believer in sasquatch, but only because I’ve pounded his ear after I figured out what was going on re. DNA.

    I honestly don’t know what “our government” knows or doesn’t know, or if they are part and partial to covering up the existence of sasquatch. I for one do not want to take another chance — neither with our government nor with a for-profit laboratory, which is why “we” (several of us) have turned to Europe to get the DNA tested this time around.

    All the films etc. will only be useful with supporting evidence, mainly DNA. I’m not so sure about the kill idea, because that may well lead to yet another cover-up.

    I and one other researcher (whom you can trust even more than me) will take these samples to Europe here this coming November.

    If you decide to go back up to your habituation site, and I can get Paavo’s camera equipment (hi-def) or whatever he may have, I can let you know privately how to get a DNA sample without either harming or maiming the creature. It’s really very easy, once you’ve built up the rapport you say you have.

    I can help you — but can you help the rest of us?

    Richard

  138. David

    Hey Ape 3yrs huh when you can live off the land and gain weight you can talk I can. Fear of the woods what a joke I’ve spent more time in the woods and mountains than you will ever imagine. How you gonna get legislation passed to protect BF with DNA and a video. So what if I believe and you believe if that is all the proof you have it will have to be proved in the form of science. Complete autopsy organs cataloged ETC. without that there will not be legislation passed nationwide to protect them. I have a degree in wildlife biology and I guarantee you that your alot of talk. There is not one animal on this earth that is not cataloged and in the computer that proves their existence. Trust me when I say I know more about wildlife and how to live off the land than you do. I am a avid BF hunter I spend alot of time in the woods with a flir scope so I am not afraid of the woods in anyway. I had the opportunity to kill what I believe was a female but I didn’t take the shot cause I was afraid of what I think was a baby in her arms. I am hunting my own grids slowly and one of these days I will get a big male. Don’t want to kill female. If you trust your government you are a fool just look around at what has happened since 2001 everything we went to war over in Iraq was a lie and that is a fact WMD. I suggest you go to wiki leaks and do some serious reading on what that soldier released.and they call that national security and the bankers and the politicians involved in the callapse and bail out of the banks. It’s worldwide now and take a good look at what is going on with speculators on Wall Street and it’s the government who is allowing the speculators and covering up legislation so they can keep the comodities market. So you get the point gas would only be about $2 a gallon but politicians are passing legislation every yr to protect big oil. So trust the government to give a shit about me or you huh I am retired and 44 and I didn’t retire based on predictions the fed made. I am my own boss if you go on guided hunts in Texas and or 3 other states I’ve probably consulted the hunt clubs you will be hunting at. Look at the comodities market grain is in cyloes rotting because of speculators and people are starving because of it. I suggest you do some serious reading dude. Deregulation is killing this country and is resposible for the mess we are in and all these other countries and the fat cats are getting fatter. That is enough on this this blog is not about this but these are facts so trust only goes so far. I have proven my point! So back to the point no body no legislation to protect them and the longer Melba and Erickson drag this out the more dought it casts on everything. I will get more legislation passed in a day than all your talk and the Erickson project will in a yr.

  139. apehuman

    okay lets talk…but it’s really abut FLIR.. it’s the only equipment I could use at night/in hand and it didn’t seem to alarm them ….where as any IR set up or Gen3+ lenses seemed to tip them off…based on in field change ups, etc.
    I think I did send you a link to FLIR…. call me or email, we’ll talk. I thought about going out up here….but, 3 years has a bit of history and my best short term shot will be in AZ.

  140. Jim Simpson

    (reiterating I am not the same person as the jimmy simpson who also posts here…name completely coincidental)
    Thought I’d post this here to remind us that “we’re” not really certain what differentiates human from non-human. I propose that (possibly) killing for reasons other than a threat to immediate survival or protection of family may be one of the things that (unfortunately) makes us human.

    http://m.philly.com/phillycom/pm_21413/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=8wLO5RSs

  141. Shawn

    Why no bigfoot posts? Has the whole thing died out?

    • Shawn:

      Hardly! We are up to 272 comments on this one thread alone. 10 yesterday & today alone (including yours).

      This has to be the proverbial “computer glitch”.

      Richard

      • apehuman

        yeah you are and I gulity of not shoosing “send email on posts..” I see a lot on the Ketchum no-show, etc and so will settle in and read.

        Soon…that’s the key word I saw…on release.. LOl sorry, but I have heard that for over a year….perhaps the delay is good….in terms of science…

        not so for those of us who have foolishly placed too much stock in the production of these various materials at a given date (passed many times) …my ship of “credibility” with my peers sailed on this topic some time ago….

        Richard i wrote you several times…..use the apehuman@yahoo.com
        a delay is really frustrating.

  142. David

    No shawn that was me making a point like I said that didn’t belong on this blog. Sorry later

  143. anon

    So, Ketchum was a no-show today in OK. What’s the excuse now?

  144. Ken Wilson

    What was the event at which the good Doctor was supposed to be present? This whole”Erickson Debacle”,which is in my opinion a better name than the “Erickson Project”, is in a word disappointing. If I were Erickson or anyone involved in the project I would release everytning and letthe lawyers figure it out at the end of the day. Let’s just trust that the DNA results will never be released by the morally corrupt Dr. Ketchum and go forward with the videos. Damn the lawsuits full steam ahead.

    • Maurice Cloud

      Hear , hear Ken! The event in question was/is the annual Honobia Bigfoot somethingorother . . . actual name escapes me. Ketchum was scheduled to speak about her DNA study, but word is she didn’t show. Paulides was also supposed to give a little chat but he may also have been AWOL as he is, err, deeply in bed with Ketchum. Anon may know more on that delicate point. I am 100% with you on Erickson releasing his material. I must say that his continual silence is, at the very least, counter productive, and, on the much less important personal level, increasingly irritating . . . Perhaps those us here are ready to take the reins ourselves . . ? Cheers!

  145. Ken:

    The name of the event Ketchum was supposed to speak at was the Honobia Bigfoot Fesitval:

    BIGFOOT CONFERENCE
    Door fee $10.00 per day, per person,
    Conference Speaker Schedule Sept 30, 2011
    8:30 am Welcome and Opening comments (Troy Hudson)
    8:50 am Troy Hudson ( Local area Bigfoot Populations)
    9:30 am Thom Cantrall (Author of Ghost of Ruby Ridge)
    10:30 am Farlan Huff (Bigfoot Investigations)
    11:00 am Break
    11:10 am R. Scott Nelson(Bigfoot Language)
    12:10 pm Lunch
    1:00 pm Arla Williams (Cherokee Grandmother)
    2:00 pm Darryl Williams (“Honobia area History)
    2:40 pm Break
    3:00 pm Robert Swain (Laughsquatch)
    4:00 pm Closing Remarks (Q and A)
    Saturday Oct 1, 2011
    8:30 am Welcome and Opening Comments (Troy Hudson)
    8:45 am Arla Williams or Troy Hudson (What’s the Future)
    9:45 am Break
    10:00 am Dr. Melba Ketchum (Sasquatch DNA Process)
    11:00 am Charles Branson
    11:55 am Lunch
    12:30 pm Dave Paulides (Author “Tribal Bigfoot”)
    1:30 pm R. Scott Nelson (Bigfoot Language) or Troy Hudson
    2:30 pm Thom Cantrall (Author of “Ghosts at Ruby Ridge”)
    3:00 pm Round Table with Speakers (Q and A)
    4:00 pm Closing Remarks/Completion of Conference (Troy Hudson)
    4:30 pm Close of Festival & Raffle Prizes Awarded (Steel Tent)
    Note: Possibilities of time changes for certain speaker’s presentations due to last minute availability. Add on speakers are also possible due to current research projects and current events.

    I would put a whole lot of weight to the fact she didn’t show. I have been with her in a similar “public” setting, and regardless of whatever else may be going on, she literally falls apart and cannot “perform” in front of a crowd of more than 3 or 4 folks. She’s simply too vain.

    In a radio format, she does just fine. She can’t see anyone in the eye, and they can’t see her.

    Regarding the release of the Erickson footage, that is Adrian’s call, not yours or mine. In fact, he has some reasons (good or otherwise) that are keeping him from releasing his footage just now.

    One of these, but by all means not the main one, is that we are heading to Europe with new samples for mito and nuclear DNA testing. That’s simply the next step for both Adrian, me, and our other colleagues who are NOT connected to Melba and longer, since Melba obviously bombed out — at least so far.

    As long as Melba’s lawyer(s) are in charge, I predict she will continue to bomb out — not only on those who are not connected to her work any longer (like me), but also those who are and have signed her “specimen agreement” — an agreement my own lawyer told me isn’t worth the paper it’s written on — not even for her. It is simply unenforceable.

    Still, her lawyers can still sue to their hearts content, which is their stated goal anyway. See a webpage for one of them (Hank Fasthoff), as follows:

    http://entertainmentlitigation.com/author/entertainmentlitigation/

    Just look at the title of the webpage! Is anyone still surprised about the direction this circus has taken?

    Richard

    • Maurice Cloud

      Fair enough Richard, but it seems to me that she had months to figure out that she would addressing a crowd rather than a dinner party . . .

    • ws

      I feel compelled to point out there’s a rumor circulating on the BF forum that Ketchum missed the conference because she was asked to fly to Europe (Germany no less) to meet with the people reviewing her paper. That would be unusual to say the least – unless of course she’s actually uncovered evidence of a new species of living hominid.

      • apehuman

        I wondered why no reports of her presentation..the facebook page says ..have fun in Oklahoma…..

        She discovered ? LOL – I think that is what all the controversy and NDA’s are about isn’t it? Who gets credit for “discovery” for a species so many have been begging for “science” TO RECOGNIZE for so long…

        so for that.. . .her willingness to listen and spend time….is deserving of discovery in those circles and as a woman I take some satisfaction in that she is playing (apparently) just as hardball as the classic BF BSers. Kind of funny in some ways.

        anyway, let’s hope she is in Germany, or wherever, and making waves.

        It is still odd so little posted… I guess I will have to go to that dreaded forum and look.

        • Ape Human:

          She may well be in Germany; and then again she may not. Who knows?

          Anyway, we are still forging ahead with our parallel study or whatever one would call it.

          In that regard, I tried to locate a FLIR for you, with no luck — unless we buy one. Sorry.

          I hope you can get over to your habituation site soon. It sounds like Melba will need all the support she can get from the rest of us — whether she wants it or not.

          Richard

          PS: When you find out which particular thread this “German” discussion was on, let me know please !!!

      • Maurice Cloud

        Some months ago I had submitted a piece — and not for the first time — to a peer-reviewed journal. All correspondence was via e-mail, all. Publishers generally do not have the funds nor, generally speaking, the inclination to fly prospective authors in for a little chat. Now Ketchum’s work I grant you is significant, but it would be extraordinarily,, well, extraordinary for her to be summoned to appear before the court as it were. But it’s nice copy . . . Cheers!

  146. I didn’t mean “I would put a whole lot of weight … ” I meant “I wouldn’t put a whole lot of weight” … see above text about Melba Ketchum not showing for a Bigfoot Conference of sorts.

    • apehuman

      I read somewhere….maybe Ridley’s blog…that the conference said, “if the paper does not have a publish date she may not show..”

      I would infer there is no publication date yet.

      I also realized in returning..that if I post three more times I will have made the front page of this blog “recent comments” all Bf related…I’ll refrain! Sorry Robert! Thanks for this thread and all you who post.

  147. She also had a couple of months when I met up with her before, to prepare.

    Still, she literally fell apart. It was more sad than ugly.

    One of her many vanity issues is self-inflicted: She posts 20 or 30 old pictures of herself on facebook & elsewhere, and even some where she is REALLY decked out.

    Meanwhile, she is getting older like the rest of us. The difference is she is INCREDIBLY self-conscious about her looks, not her speaking ability or even her message. She is one of those folks who just CAN’T perform in front of an audience who doesn’t know her (currently) from personal contact.

    Re. Erickson–sometime in private I’ll tell you the main reason he isn’t releasing his videos yet. You and I and the others on this blog probably don’t put much weight on his reasoning, but he does; in fact by necessity.

    Richard

  148. Jim Simpson

    Maybe the sasquatch shyness is carried in their blood and DNA and transferable to anyone that handles it, and it has infected this mysterious and missing Dr. Ketchum. This would also explain why no one else who has proved its existence has stepped forward, since they too have been “bitten”. OR….it is quite possible she has become so enamored with the creature’s amazing “samples” that she has abandoned her science to volunteer herself to them as a breeding —–whatever. After all, once your looks and professional credibility go, what would the difference be?

  149. Ken Wilson

    Richard:
    That sounds like a great conference even sans Ketchum. I just wish that I was able to attend such a conference, or any bigfoot conference. Being a hillbilly in Kentucky never seems afford me that opportunity. I respect Adrian’s right to release or not release his videos, but am growing more and more tired of looking forward to it. I relate it to me as a kid looking forward to Santa delivering toys, then having my older brother tell me on December 1st that Santa may or may not be real and that everyone is speculating on whether the toys will come. Jim and Maurice……..you both continue to amuse me greatly. Thank you both!!!!!!!!!!!
    Chhers to youMaurice!

    • Maurice Cloud

      Evening Ken! Your kind words are, as always, very much appreciated, but upon reflection I kinda think my last comment was a bit too cheeky(no pun intended . . .). Whatever her failings Dr. Ketchum is not an object of ridicule . . . irritation, frustration, even anger, those I get, but not ridicule. To anyone who knows the extent of how John Bindernagel has suffered for his pursuit of sasquatch then subjecting any member of the scientific community to the same is blatantly unfair if not outright hypocritical of those of us who believe in the existence of the critter. That said, Dr. Ketchum if you’re reading these posts — and I know you do — we are all so bloody much over your proprietorial secrecy on this subject, how about some communication . . ? Cheers!

      • apehuman

        Well, yes on Bindernagel….I personally have suffered some pretty extreme pain (mental anguish maybe…) trying to get professionals to look seriously at the data….they just won’t. It’s fascinating at some levels. I actually contacted a Stanford scholar in psychology to ask…. why?

        she couldn’t help

        And unfortunately, I kind of disagree on the Ketchum, EP, etc….
        the thing is…if one has invested a great deal of effort and money or whatever one values in such a product….it’s theirs, to share or not.
        All this hubba of discontent is from us on the outside… even those with NDA’s and perhaps not totally satisfied are still hanging in there…as not many options seem apparent. So, in a way we are really just hecklers….albeit vocal ones, and eventually the whole audience may join in…but right now, it’s still a small crowd…here anyway b/c the stakes are so high. So many of us have reputations at stake on the issue of whether BF’s exist or not….so we care…but not necessarily with any entitlement to know her results or anyone’s…although I can still complain this is all too silly…..and just not sounding “buttoned up’ with lawyers even…(which you all know..lawyers unbutton things.. ..judges button up, and I have seen more than one confident party lose….I think there is a Bible passage about this…. something about working it out before you get to the judge and it goes against you…..)

        on the other hand….the burden of proof on BF is exceptional…and mayt require exceptional tactics to bring to the public credibly

        (maybe just go to bed…I just wanted to know why no press release today, etc…and the news here disappointing…except…

        I hope Richard you are getting samples. More than one study will be necessary and it looks like it could be something where many papers are published together…like, Next Spring? geez!

        I also want to hear, in private, why Adrian is holding back…

    • apehuman

      Ken – I like your posts…your thinking and willingness to get along.
      Seems like in Kentucky you ought to be a BF witness?

      They actually seem a a little weird the conferences . ..this one for instance has BF entertainment and bands, and a BF photo stop, etc. along with more serious presentations. I hear one can buy “copy casts” of the tracks Krantz gave (or whoever did) to Meldrum. Can you imagine? Poorly funded pursuit you know! Have to hawk old casts and BF tee shirts.l Wonder how much they are?

  150. Thanks Maurice for the relatively kind words about Melba. I know her, and I know she is trying her level best — whatever that may be. I’ve tried to find out through mutual friends how she is doing, physically. No one seems to know.

    But I suspect she is OK physically, but stressed out to be sure.

    There was one tidbit of info I did hear, on another Bigfoot Blog: Paulides (one of her current partners and confidants) was there at the conference, and he merely said, when asked about when the DNA study would be released or published, “soon” or “pretty soon”.

    And that was that.

    Richard

  151. apehuman

    Why would Ketchum’s physical condition be of concern here, did I miss something?

  152. Ken Wilson

    Well said Maurice….well said!

  153. Ken Wilson

    Thanks apehuman for your kind words. As far as being a BF witness here in KY…no such luck although about two years ago while camping I did hear what I believe to be a “samurai” type of call. It was very close and woke me out of a sound sleep. No other occurences. Good luck with your work and keep us informed please!

  154. apehuman

    Since you camp: pick up Robert Morgan’s book “BF Observer’s Field Guide” and might also visit Chris Noels website or facebook “Impossible Visits”….. as he seems to use similar methods…except I sing to them…and it was the singing (and sharing directly from the plate I eat from….will fill you in if you desire) that elicited the “Whistle Serenade” – a close range (20 yards) nighttime event that lasted well over 1.5 minutes and included almost every bird I have ever heard…strung together in a kind of song…with an opening of slow sft whistles to a cresendo of amazing proportions and skill… absolutely mind blowing…and what kept me going back…..some of the stuff too incredible to share with an as yet unbeleiving public. But, my pint here is this: go into your camp adventure with intent to communicate! Talk directly to the forest as though you Know they are there (take someone ..only one, or two..or none that won’t tease you and will join in)…… and then if appropriate where you are (avoid creating camp bears/critters or wildlife violations) tell them thank you for sharing their homeland and share your personal food (or an unopened package of say dried fruit and nuts….critical to choose natural and healthful….well my opinion anyway) in a location that you can reach in the dark without too much fear or flashlights, etc. Don’t wear camo, etc and flip flops a definate plus…LOL…what I am saying is this…

    they “read” every move an visitor to their home makes…from clothing to cars to actions to voice, etc…..and you want to appear different, interesting and non-threattening…and better yet… one that “knows” (I believe it raises your stature with them..to let them know you know, but are not chasing….)

    so you are on the second or third night camping..you have surveyed your 5 to 10 acres well for two days…made some nice music at night (native American flute CD a plus…along those lines)…..talked to the forest…etc…cooked some pork….:)

    and retire….sleep lightly dont use flashlights….and stay observant…

    They use mimicry in such expert ways it is important to know all your night birds, etc..and habits.,,,, but if you camp/…well why not? Pick a spot “known” and return to same spot for several trips….

    sound tough or waste of time… ? I thought so too…LOL…at first…
    but things happened very quickly, so quickly at first I just couldn’t beleive it…and did an entire “denial trip…”…..

    so 30 trips…70 some nights later..and three years….how did I get here?

    But, not only are they “there”…..but they are a form of us….
    I though H. erectus a lkely choice..well evolved H.erectus…. who knows though…they could be H.sapien sapien…our genetic variation is pretty wild…

    I wrote this to you Ken b/c it’s true and I feel your best shot at controlled contact…ask them to come to you…then there are no “territory” issues…use a known campsite, but somewhat remote….they long ago gave up certain areas to us…but walk among those areas at night unfettered….

  155. apehuman

    Ken here is an unlisted upload to Youtube of mine…listen closely…this is just how subtle the non-animal mimicry can be and yet how distinct. They do make all kinds of sounds of “unknown animal” (since of course they don’t exist one must approach all sounds as compared to any possible known….so the mimicry is a whole ‘nother level of analysis..includes behavior/time, etc…)

    anyway….my experience says there is some type of synergistic relationship with coyotes…..perhaps just one species scavaging the kills of others…or not….. I have seen bear tracks in close association with Bf tracks….and wonder there too…we make use of many animals sybiotically (so not domesticated and yet used…falcons, ravens, homing pigeons, ) and there are a few reports of dogs and bear cubs in association with a BF sighting…..

    anyway….at one time I had about 20 vids up publicly…..trolling for help on sound and video.after I gave up on the Forest Service and academia……..and for the most part the work is just too tedious for those “not obsessed” and those that are have their own similar data…it’s that easy to get the data: tracks, sounds, poor video, flir…….and so Hard to prove if no one will look at the weight of the evidence, in total, and send out REAL field anthropologists LOL

  156. apehuman

    my video skills poor…there is some dead time on clip before the sonogram….hang in there.

    Larry Surface helped on this…he is an Ohio Bf researcher

  157. Ken Wilson

    Wow apehuman! That sounds incredible. I am going to start making some trips to my daughter’s farm (55 wooded acres) during the day and trying some of these techniques. I say during the day because I work nights. The day trips may not be fruitful, but at least I will be in the woods. I assume that I should leave my dog at home??

    • apehuman

      I have 30 frames of a BF juvenile in daylight standard resolution vid…zoomed in too far for real detail, but his/her hands come into light….and not a gorilla hand….more like ours…. I’ll share privately if you share your location so I can Google Earth….(I am a topography natural history freak…lol..is how I discovered BF myth…on Goggle Earth in first launch…BFRO posted reports and I stupidly read) write me directly at apehuman

      • Ken Wilson

        Hey Apehuman. I was just scrolling through the posts out of boredom, and must have misses this post. I am near the point where Anderson county, Shelby county, and Franklin County intersect. All in the great state of Kentucky if you want to look it up!

  158. apehuman

    one more…I won’t say as much about the behavior of this particular “howl maker” as there are those that use the info for what I think is questionable activity… I have many in this category , but I have never tried to use sound analysis b/c the software is so friggin hard to use and slow….

    I’ll probably pull this stuff if it gets too many hits….unless of course someone writes and says…sign me up for hours at a a computer on data that may or may not be important for an audience that may or may not exist for a cause that may or may not be right…..

    hence my slowness and confusion of just what to do…and I am waiting for the EP/Ketchum thing to decide…..!

    sorry all typos…still have to replace glasses I broke in move. these readers leave me still at poor computer sight and I get impatient with my own typing skills, so thanks for enduring.

  159. Ken Wilson

    Very nice apehuman! I am very interested in hearing all of your stories and experiences!

  160. Ken Wilson

    Again a nice recording . Where were you taping from? Looks like a shelter. Apparently a day trip might be exciting!

  161. apehuman

    I have an 19′ pop-up camper….so I can close it up and did my first few trips….and I did get scared…and rightly so I guess as at that time they were a complete unknown to me….now I have a lot of confidence out there at night as well. Yes, day can be exciting b/c you will be thinking about long term monitoring/contact right? with owning place you can set up a location for offerings or what eve rand just periodically check…
    don’t put out a trail cam..seriously, first establish through tracking, etc you are getting hits….then think more about how to “prove” or not!
    think creatively..they are known to approach homes in rural areas to watch TV (apparently) at night…..
    I think using modern tech in obvious way might be interesting experiment…so film yourself talking to them or something and leave an old laptop playing it with music or something… along with offering. They aren’t stupid. I used solar lights sometimes to mark new “drops”…they are very visual.
    I also came to conclusion the can see in symbols…so art or statue or photo…they can interpret at some level…..so think outside the ape theorists and their tactics..invent your own.

  162. apehuman

    also..if you have $800 LOL but seriously wish I had spent some capital early instead of fettering away with so many trips/experiments…well I learned..(.I want an $1800 i7 FLIR now….dont bother with IR/NV stuff)
    anyway I think best money now is $800 on purchasing 24/7 system from Cornell supplier (or rent from them about 3$50)….. but the system mics are clunky looking…so it’s one of those things you would add to a normal “human” thing and it just happens to be there…rather than try and place in their territory and hide?

    check out Cornell’s orinthology labs….

  163. Ken Wilson

    I’ll try all of this eventually. First I’ll just show up and scout around while talking to them Maybe leave some fruit or unopened nuts. I’m looking forward at the very least some time with nature.

  164. apehuman

    yep..that’s its own reward really..and I guess viewing the forest in a new way..with attention to details that perhaps I used to overlook…
    I got off on a tangent, when I recall the experience I get excited…good thing I moved really….. it can be costly in time and money and within society….have fun tho LOL

  165. Mainly, folks, while I would like to continue commenting on this thread, it actually started way back on August 2 — two months ago! In the meantime, there have been several related threads since that time, including the following one I am now asking ALL of you to change over to:

    http://robertlindsay.wordpress.com/2011/10/01/richard-stubstad-interview-october-1-2011/

    Please join me on this new thread, also because I’d like to start discussing the DNA findings from purported Sasquatch Sample #3 with you all (among other things, of course)

    Meanwhile, I won’t be posting on this particular thread any longer. Please refer to the above link if you’d like to read what I have to say.

    Thanks,

    Richard

  166. Ken Wilson

    I surely will. Thanks apehuman.

  167. David

    Great tape apehuman.

  168. David

    Hey Ape: Check out this site for flir technology http://www.x20.org I am looking for another website address when I find it I will leave it here for you it has alot of different cameras and for what you get very reasonable prices for what you get.

  169. apehuman

    thanks I will

  170. Bil willie

    Huh…ran across this site. Interesting postings and information. Now if you weren’t associated with super hoaxer Biscardi and Erikson I could give you some credence.
    Your credibility is about nill.

      • apehuman

        interesting isn’t it Robert..he just ran across this site (and story apparently) and yet seems to know about both Biscardi and Erickson….what does that say about this story? I stumbled here in August 2011 by using a Google search…DNA Bigfoot….and was blown away this had been going on since March… Look at your first blogs on this – the only people who respond are Stubstad and one or two others..and for a month or so…then what? An explosion in July….must have been Randles verified then? 320 comments! But, in the other forums/blogs nothing or disparaging comments about you rather than the sources, leaks, or information……telling. In fact Ketchum’s FB page has a prayer for you..and cites to Luke…b/c you know no love…
        I find that just bizarre..maybe easier for me b/c I don’t know you or them? LOL but in the BF world reputations are created and destroyed by everyone but the person so holding! I disregard most of it.
        All I can say is the story gets deeper and bigger….kind of like a nasty oil slick…. I won’t be surprised I guess one way or the other..the only thing I find surprising is Ketchum’s non-response and the behavior of many BFers! My own included.. I could never have predicted I should become an internet poster..on BF’s no less…and mean what I say a good deal of the time! Of course this means I may never work for the Obama admin now…

  171. jim

    sometimes nothing is quite as articulate as a simple “bye”

  172. Ken Wilson

    The way my e-mail blew up from this site…I thought there was some big news, not an idiot passerby. The country would do well with some truth tellers in govt apehuman. How go the searches ?

  173. apehuman

    @LOL me too Ken… I am working on sound files…and amazingly someone is helping!

  174. goodkarmagirl

    Oh yes, Robert. We are here until the bitter end…and perhaps longer. You are The King. You’ve got us all on the edge of our seats. Screw the naysaying disbelieving skeptical uneducated misinformed fu@#ers.
    By the way, I LOVE that you are a trust fund baby! What better thing to do with your talent…

    MWAH!!

  175. Ken Wilson

    Hubba Hubba

  176. David

    The more I hear and read on Melba and Erickson the deeper I think the shit gets. Lawyers work for you and they don’t tell you what to do. I am beginning to think Melba and Erickson are in shit quicksand and are sinking deeper and deeper. All this DNA testing etc is a joke cause it don’t take this long. I personally think they are doing more damage than good and is looking bad as far as anything they say. The more I read the more skeptable I become concerning anything they write and or say and the more I dought they can prove the research and video they say they have. 2 months ago what me and a friend saw in my flir is real and he didn’t hunt this year do to nothing more than being afraid of what is out there. I have 45 seconds that only family and closest friends have seen I am getting closer to my goal. Due to the cold weather I have suspended activities for now. The way all that DNA with Melba and Erickson are going and the video this time next year everyone will still being saying the same BS next year. Just remember at this present time there is more proof of UFO’s than there are of Bigfoot and I am a believer in both. The fact remains without a body whether killed by someone like me or a hunter it will never be catalogged as a species of any kind and a autopsy and the catalogging of it’s organs and DNA will prove it’s existence. Without the science to back it up your up shit creek without paddle and that is a FACT! All this talk is just that talk nothing more.

  177. David

    Still waiting for Erickson and Melba to present their research for the world to see. Still Waiting_____________!

  178. Ken Wilson

    Me too David…….(Sigh) Me too.

  179. gene

    I believe everything about Bigfoot I have heard the things on the property in crittenden, Ky.. But have not seen anything All I can say is there is something on Mann Road

  180. Randy

    THEY could have tranquilized a Bigfoot. It not that tricky. Where is this “FOOTAGE”? More Bullshit. I do believe in Bigfoot, But not that this “TEAM” has any footage or proof. The ” I didn`t want to shoot one, and not even Trap one, and tranquilize one is such a BS. COPOUT.

    • Well, you’re wrong. My friends know the people who were there at the time. And the footage? Well, it’s coming. They are working on the documentary in Hollywood right at this moment.

  181. David

    Hey Robert if they are working on a documentry why has Erickson been in Vermont and not Hollywood. Last I heard about a bigfoot documentry it was to have been out in October 2011 never happened. I don’t think something this big Erickson is going to hand over his info and then go and spend alot of time in Vermont. The question I would be asking is what has his attn. in Vermont it sures hell ain’t a movie deal. What about Melba I think if she was going to be published about her DNA ole Stubard went on and on about her and that DNA he was going to take DNA to England well they have had plenty of time to process since November. 3 months is what the boys at Harvard say. Just wondering.

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