Breathtaking News from the Erickson Project

The leaks from people close to the Erickson Project continue to come in fast and furious.

Surely the most breathtaking news so far involves the sequencing of Bigfoot DNA. We already reported previously on the sequencing Bigfoot mitochondrial DNA, which is coming out 100% human. That means that the Bigfoot female line goes back to human females.

However, we can now report on the sequencing of the nuclear DNA from the male side. The report is that it is absolutely non-human! It is very far away from humans. In the chart below, various hominins are measured according to their distance away from humans in terms of polymorphisms (P* distance).

Hominin spp.   P* Distance   Date of split

Neandertal     9,200         508,000?
Denisova       18,400?       840,000
Bigfoot        68,300?       2.25 M?
Chimpanzee     182,000       6 M

As you can see, Bigfoots are approximately 1/2 way between humans and chimps. More precisely, they are 37.5% of the way from humans to chimps. Also, Bigfoots are 7.4X further away from us than Neandertals are, and they are 3.7X further away from us than Denisova was. Neandertal split from us 508,000 YBP, and Denisova split 840,000 YBP. I estimate that Bigfoot split from humans 2.25 million YBP, or slightly before Homo Erectus.

We only have DNA from three hominids: Homo sapiens, Neandertal and Denisova. We have no DNA from Flores Man, Erectus or any of the rest. One reason for this is that DNA degrades, and it is impossible to get DNA from samples more than 50,000 years old. Flores Man samples were too degraded to get any DNA yet.

Therefore, evidence indicates that Bigfoots are a hybrid species. Some “thing,” some “monster,” some “subhuman,” mated with human females somewhere in Europe possibly ~20-50,000 YBP. Shades of King Kong!

What this “thing” was is completely unknown. It must be a hominid. It quite possibly was Homo erectus. Therefore, Bigfoots may be Erectus-sapiens hybrids.

The closest thing to an Erectus-sapiens hybrid is Heidelberg Man, or Homo heidelbergensis. This was late Homo erectus trending into archaic Homo sapiens. There is suggestive evidence that a heidelbergensis skull was found in China dated 13,000 YBP.

If Bigfoot is part-Erectus, this explains certain things. Erectus still had a midtarsal break in Europe 300,000 YBP. Erectus had a saggital crest.

It is clear by now that the “Bigfoot is an ape” theory lies in the dust. Bigfoot is a man, an ancient man, a blast from our ancient past, a subhuman, a human ancestor. He’s one of us, but he’s not.

In addition, we can report that the Erickson Project Bigfoot DNA study has isolated DNA from 20 separate Bigfoot individuals from around North America. They received hundreds of samples, but many were not useful. Of the 20 separate individuals, Adrian Erickson’s samples represented six individuals.

One of the samples was called “unknown hand.” This was hand of a “something,” but no one knows what. Inside the Project, people were taking bets on what the hand was from. Dr. Melba Ketchum bet that it was a bear. Others bet that it was not a bear. Ketchum never got any money from the bet. Whatever this strange object was, it was not a bear paw. No one knows what it was. Maybe it was a Bigfoot hand.

Don Monroe found the hand in a dump somewhere in Montana or Idaho. A skinned bear paw that has the claws removed and resembles a human hand to a great deal. The hand was a bone with some relict skin remaining on it. All of the hair was gone. It’s not known if Ketchum’s lab even tested the hand for DNA.

One of the samples was a bone from a stream in Oregon. It may have been a femur. The bone looks like a human bone, but it is much too large. It was submitted by David Paulides’ North American Bigfoot Search (NABS).

We also have some updates in the story about the killing of the two Bigfoots near the Dixie Mountain Game Refuge in California’s Sierra Nevada in November 2010. There were two other men in the truck with the shooter at the time. At least one of the men was absolutely hysterical that the shooter shot the two Bigfoots. The other man was also not happy about the situation.

We can also report that the section of Bigfoot thigh sent to the Erickson Project DNA test from the shooting was auburn haired, and it also had a lot of grey in it. This slab was from the mother Bigfoot that was shot dead. She was probably a middle aged Bigfoot, ~45 years old in human terms or ~25 years old in Bigfoot terms. Her two offspring, one of which was also shot dead, were ~10 years old in human terms or ~5 years old in Bigfoot terms.

To this date, we do not know what the shooter did after he killed the two Bigfoots.

I know the name of the shooter, but for some reason, I am not releasing it, though I probably should. It will come out later anyway. His name can be found by industrious web sleuths who are intelligent about Internet sleuthing. The shooter has changed his story many times, and is very afraid of going to jail over killing of these two Bigfoots.

He is wise to be afraid of this, because I know some wealthy and connected people who told me that they are dedicated to seeing that the shooter goes to prison over killing the Bigfoots. These people think Bigfoots are humans, so killing one is homicide. So if I were the shooter, I would not be straight up about this matter either. Further, I would retain a good attorney. If the Olympic Project has any sense, they will have also spoken to attorneys too, because their mitts are all over these two killed Bigfoots.

The shooter is a narcissist and a redneck, and I don’t like him. You can tell he’s a narcissist. Look at his photos. Just look at that smug, smarmy look in eyes. I don’t think he’s a good person.

There are different kinds of hunters. Most hunters are good people, but a minority are not. The bad guys have the same mindset about hunting. They basically just like to kill things because they like to kill. You can tell who the bad ones are. You can see it in their eyes. They will shoot just about anything as long as it is not illegal. This guy has that look about him.

This is what kind of a person and hunter the shooter is. He is well known in the hunting and taxidermy community and is not well liked at all. In that community, he is thought of as a “maniac hunter” and an “unethical hunter.”

He could change any time he wants, quit being bad and start being good. His choice. I don’t think he will ever change though, because he is very happy being the smug ex-Texan prick that he is. Most of his friends are the same as he is, and so is the California woman who became his wife two years ago, who is now expecting.

Most narcissists never feel guilt about anything that they do. There are some reports that the shooter feels bad about killing the two Bigfoots. Perhaps he does. He may have some sort of a conscience. I bet he’s more afraid of getting caught though.

The Olympic Project has changed their story about this shooting several times now. I actually do not blame them. If I were in as deep as they are, I would get myself a nice, fancy story too.

For several months after November, their line was that the OP never went out to the shooting site.

Then they said that the OP did go to the shooting site 2 weeks later, and they found a chunk of Bigfoot flesh in the snow.

Now the OP says that only the shooter went back 2 weeks later and found the piece of flesh.

The story about going back later and finding a hunk of flesh strikes me as dubious, but maybe it happened. Who knows, right?

In addition, the OP said for a long time after the shooting, “Let’s make one thing clear! There were no two Bigfoots shot and killed!”

But after I broke the story, they changed their line to saying that a man that the OP knows well did shoot and kill the two Bigfoots.

They say he shot the first one because he thought she was a bear and shot the second one because it was threatening him.

Neither report is true.

The shooter knew she was not a bear. His line is he thought she was threatening him. And the second one wasn’t threatening him either.

The shooter was a passenger in the truck with three bear hunters near the Dixie Mountain Game Refuge on the California/Nevada border in November 2010. They came around a bend, and there was a grayish white female Bigfoot in the road on all fours. The shooter grabbed his gun and jumped out of his vehicle. As he jumped out, he saw the Bigfoot get up on two legs and start running towards him waving her arms. When the Bigfoot saw the gun, she turned and started to run away. The shooter shot her in the side of the chest, and the bullet penetrated her lungs.

She crashed off into the brush and died. The three men went down into the brush and saw her there. It was then that they realized that she was not a bear at all. They walked back up onto the road.

When they got to the road, they saw two small, strange creatures running towards them, sometimes on two legs, sometimes on four legs. The shooter raised his gun, fired and shot one of the creatures dead. The other small creature apparently escaped. As the shooter cradled the dying creature in his arms, they all three realized that it was a young creature of the same type that had just gotten shot. The juvenile Bigfoot had a huge head, and the shooter said it looked exactly like the Jacobs creature photo.

The shooter did not shoot the young Bigfoot because it was threatening him, which is his story. He just shot it for some unknown reason.

At this point they figured out that they had killed two Bigfoots. The two men with the shooter were so hysterical and upset about the shootings that they took the shooter’s gun away from him and pointed it at him, threatening him. They told him that if he tried to shoot another one of those animals, they would shoot him instead. The story is that everyone was so upset by that point that they left the area. The shooter said that they left the animals in the road, and he was not going back to the area until next fall.

There is a lot of fighting inside the Erickson Project. Adrian Erickson and Melba Ketchum are not getting along well. At least one reason is that Erickson paid Ketchum $70,000 for the sequencing of six Bigfoot samples. To this date, he has not received results from these samples, even though those samples do represent six separate confirmed Bigfoot individuals. He did receive results from one DNA test, the test he had done on himself. Most of the principals had their own DNA tested to avoid contamination.

Erickson had an agreement with Ketchum that if his Bigfoot samples tested out as coming from real Bigfoots, they would then be used in the final writeup. One or more of his samples were from real Bigfoots, but Ketchum is apparently threatening to not include them in her paper due to their falling out. So Erickson is threatening to sue her for violating their agreement.

Erickson has also threatened to sue a couple of other folks, including Dennis Pfohl and Mike Rugg, but I am not sure of the reason. Erickson is well liked, and he is also deeply respected. At the same time, the respect seems tinged with fear. He has sunk $3 million into this project, and he is not going to get it back.

One great thing to come out of the release of the Erickson Project results is that maybe Bigfoot witnesses will not be so persecuted. Roger Patterson was not an honorable man, but he did shoot a real video of a Bigfoot in California in 1967. He was so hounded by skeptics that they may have driven him to an early grave.

Bob Gimlin was so upset at the hounding that he more or less retreated from the public eye for over 20 years after the shooting of the video. He only came out in 1989. Gimlin is a tough man, but all of the attacks have still hurt him. Entire books and countless articles and Internet pieces have been written about how he hoaxed the famous video.

From Canada, word comes that Bigfoots are much more common around Indian communities than around non-Indians. It seems that Bigfoots are more comfortable around Indians than around non-Indians. One may speculate about reasons.

Updating a previous story, a trapper in McBride, British Colombia has told people that he was recently kidnapped by Bigfoots, who took him back to a cave and tried to make him have sex with a female Bigfoot. It’s an updated Albert Ostman story.

Another trapper somewhere in British Colombia is living by himself way out in the woods far away from anyone else. He is reportedly nearly living with a group of Bigfoots. He sees them every single day. This may possibly be the same man who says he was kidnapped by Bigfoots. The stories should be followed up.

A previous post reported on some Canadians who dug up a muskeg and found a Bigfoot hand skeleton in it. It was a Bigfoot burial ground. In northern Canada, Bigfoots use muskegs as burial grounds. This particular muskeg was in northern Saskatchewan.

The Bigfoot shooting and DNA stories are powerful news, maybe the stories of the year. Bigfoot is on the verge of being formally discovered by science.

*******

In 1958, the Russian scientist Dr. Boris Porchnev concluded that relict hominids, cavemen from the Stone Age, continue to live among us to this very day. His prophetic views have been vindicated. The implications are nothing less than breathtaking. It’s nearly the story of the century already, and we’ve only just come round the bend. Hold onto your seats.

Check out Bigfoot Forums for the best Bigfoot discussion on the web.

References

Porchnev, Boris and Heuvelmans, Bernard. 1974. L’homme de Néanderthal est toujours vivant (Neanderthal Is Still Alive). Paris: Plon.

63 Comments

Filed under Americas, Animals, Anthropology, Apes, Bigfoot, Canada, Genetics, Mammals, North America, Physical, Regional, Science, Wild

63 responses to “Breathtaking News from the Erickson Project

  1. Justin

    I’ve always said whatever Bigfoot is, it’s related in some way to Homo Erectus. I’m on record saying as much at this site. For me it was always futile to compare Sasquatch to us instead, especially in terms of identification. I’m still sticking to my belief that it’s closely related to Erectus – but not directly to us as well, as your post suggests. Erectus DNA would have been most similar to us because that species was our direct ancestor (at least in Africa) as oppose to Neanderthal, which was more of a sibling to us.
    I have realized that identifying the shooter is not easy like identifying your interview subject. I want him outed because I’m pissed at him, but trying to find him requires being in it for the long haul. It’s something I’m looking into as a part time thing.

    • Todd Neiss

      Apologies for chiming in so late on this one but I am sort of tied up at the moment with a little thing called “war” over here in balmy Iraq and just playing catching up.

      Hate to differ with youRobert, but there are some inconsistencies and outright misinformation in your statements.

      ROBERT: “…we can report that the Erickson Project Bigfoot DNA study has isolated DNA from 20 separate Bigfoot individuals from around North America…Of the 20 separate individuals, Adrian Erickson’s samples represented six individuals…One of the samples was called “unknown hand.” This was hand of a “something,” but no one knows what…Whatever this strange object was, it was not a bear paw.”

      TODD: “No one knows what?” I am pulling out my B.S. flag on that one! Mr. Monroe has been packing around his “Hand of Unknown Origin” (HOUO) in a 1-gallon jar for years like some sort of side-show attraction.

      I saw it at least five years ago at a meeting in Portland where I met Don for the first time. It was also the first time I ever met Tom Biscardi (yes…they were associates).

      I nearly lost it as I recall, with great amusement, as Tom was working the audience of perhaps a dozen people (corded microphone in hand). The cord was draped across a table cluttered with numerous BF “artifacts” including the HOUO [cue X-files theme song]. Unbeknownst to Biscardi, his cord had wrapped around this vessel of rotting flesh and home-made embalming fluid. If you ever watched Tom speak, he is very animated. Every time he paced to my left, the cord would tighten around the jar and drag it another inch closer to the table’s edge! Those of us that witnessed what was about to happen (and not being able to shut Tom up long enough to warn him), began to back away from the table; not wanting to get any of “it” on us, let alone inhale what was sure to be a horrendously foul odor. Fortunately for Tom, and much to my disappointment, someone ran to the table and unwrapped the cord just before the HOUO was to become the SOUO (Stench Of Unknown Origins). Now THAT would really have qualified as “Breathtaking News from the Erickson Project!” But I digress.

      About six months later, I was sent a life-size color photo and an x-ray taken of the infamous HOUO from a source I who will remain anonymous. They asked me to use my resources to determine just what the real origin was.

      I took the photo and x-ray to Professor Paul Ruedas, a biologist at Portland State University, who kindly humored me as we sought the answer to this riddle. Not wanting to lead him, I did not dare let him in on what it was alleged to be from. He seemed genuinely excited about having this little mystery to solve. It didn’t take him very long.

      Also having earned a degree in paleontology, he was most interested in the x-ray. Using calipers, he carefully measured each bone (phalanges, metacarpals, and carpal bones) and made calculations on a tablet. There may also have been small remnants of the ulna and radius, but don’t quote me on that. Next he began to measure the distance between each joint and making more calculations. He then announced, “I believe I know what your mystery animal is.” He led me over to a large set of drawers and pulled one out, then began to take all of the same measurements again using actual bones from the drawer. He then invited me to join him as he rushed off to the 2nd floor of the Sciences Building. The 2nd floor was a menagerie of full-mounted skeletons of everything from squirrels to a grey whale suspended from the ceiling and running nearly the width of the building. Some mounts were posed in dioramas (like the mountain lion skeleton pouncing on the black-tailed deer skeleton in a forested setting. It was in one such diorama that we came upon an intact North American Black Bear. He unlocked the glass case and laid the HOUO x-ray next to the bear’s paw. Aside from the claws, which were obviously cut off of the HOUO, it was a perfect match both in symmetry and size. I thanked the professor and, before I left, admitted to him what I was hoping it might be. To my surprise, he became very fascinated and confided that he, and some of his associates, held open the possibility of the existence of Bigfoot!

      I returned the photo and x-ray to my contact and gave him the bad news. That summer, I attended an annual Bigfoot gathering and was surprised to see Don Monroe there (in a Scottish kilt I believe?). It was then that I fully explained to him why he no longer needed to drag around the HOUO any longer. In fact, since possession of bear parts (especially gall bladders and paws) is a felony, he might want to get rid of it.

      So for you to say that, “This was hand of a ‘something,’ but no one knows what.” is simply untrue. Professor Ruedas, I and Mr. Monroe know precisely what it’s origin is. With all of your alleged experts on hand (no pun intended), I am amazed you couldn’t collectively come to the same conclusion. While it may take a biologist to figure it out, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist Robert (OK…bad analogy).

      Dr. Ketchum won the bet. I suggest that you boys pay up!

      ROBERT: Don Monroe found the hand in a dump somewhere in Montana or Idaho.

      TODD: If I had discovered such a vile piece of flesh, I think I would remember which state I found it in. Exactly how many of these suckers does Don have?

      ROBERT: A skinned bear paw that has the claws removed and resembles a human hand to a great deal.

      TODD: I think you’re on to something! In fact, a skinned and field-dressed bear (sans head) looks eerily like a human body. The bottom line is that the HOUO is, in reality, the POKO (Paw Of Known Origin).

      ROBERT: It’s not known if Ketchum’s lab even tested the hand for DNA.

      TODD: In the beginning you clearly stated, “…we can report that the Erickson Project Bigfoot DNA study has isolated DNA from 20 separate Bigfoot individuals from around North America…Of the 20 separate individuals, Adrian Erickson’s samples represented six individuals…One of the samples was called “unknown hand.” Now you say, “It’s not known if Ketchum’s lab even tested the hand for DNA.”

      Which is it sir?

      • HOUO has apparently been proven to be a from a bear. Ketchum thought it was from a bear. It’s not known if she ever tested it or not. I’m quite sure it didn’t test positive for BF even if she did test it. My info is that Ketchum didn’t even test it because she thought it was a bear.

  2. Pingback: Cryptomundo » Erickson Project: Shocking DNA News

  3. THE TWO BFOOT BODIES SIGHTING/FINDING/SHOOTING STORY?
    BUNKUM!
    I’LL TAKE BETS ON IT.
    PETER BYRNE.

    • Peter:

      Never met you; nice to hear from you man! That is, you Grand Old Man.

      I already bet Dr. Melba Ketchum that neither of these kills were the real deal; but rather the typical hoax. However, our bet was more out of principle than to earn any significant cash–a $2 bill (two ones just won’t cut it).

      Since I’m already on her scheiss list (if you know German), I haven’t hear from her–one way or the other–how her testing of the first “kill” sample came out, except the mito was Homo sapiens sapiens. Other samples she has tested that were in all likelihood the “real deal” also tested 100% “modern” human; however I doubt if ANY of her nuclear testing came out 100% human. However, I still don’t know that–I’m only surmising at this point, and not totally with blinders on either.

      Good luck to you, sir!

      Richard Stubstad

  4. Hey, ‘ol buddy Robert L.!

    I hate to differ with you, but in fact the chart you listed is for the mito DNA, not the nuclear. Here is the correct mito chart, somewhat enhanced, in terms of distance from the Cambridge Reference Sequence, the CRS (roughly):
    CRS = Zer0 Polymorphisms
    Typical (isolated) African tribe = 80
    Neanderthal = 200
    Denisovans = 400
    Chimp = 2,000
    Sasquai = Between 10 and 90 (based on only three complete sequences)

    In all cases above, the nuDNA is MUCH further away from the CRS (assuming they even have the nuDNA for the CRS) for each and every one on the above list. This is because, among other reasons, there are literally millions of DNA bases in our nuDNA while there are “only” 16,569 in our circular mtDNA genome.

    While Adrian Erickson may have more updated information than I do, I kind of doubt it. As I said before, during the part of the Texas DNA study I was involved in, to my knowledge at least Adrian didn’t get ANY DNA information from Dr. K whatsoever; everything he knew, though, about the sequencing HE paid for, I shared with him because we have an NDA (Erickson and I) that allows us to share such information.

    Sorry to burst your bubble, but that’s the extent of my own knowledge at this point. I would point out, however, that FURTHER mtDNA testing may have revealed yet another “haplotype” of sasquai that ARE that far away from the CRS. If Erickson or someone else knows about this, however, I sincerely doubt that they have the data to support this claim, which was likely verbally transmitted, if at all.

    I’ll believe it when I see the DATA on the mtDNA side. On the nuclear side, I absolutely believe the 37% of the way report; but not the 750 pair part. The differences on the nuclear side should be in the thousands or tens of thousands, not just in the tens or hundreds.

    Lastly, while your write-up on what may have actually happened during the shooting incident, it is STILL just a story, at best third-hand. Also, as you point out, the story changes from time to time, so WHO KNOWS, really?

    Personally, I don’t believe it but it may be true, I admit. Maybe I just don’t WANT to believe it. For sure, it does NOT match a sasquatch MO–eg. “running towards the truck, waving her arms”. A “normal” sasquatch Mom would IMMEDIATELY head into the bush and TAKE HER YOUNG AWAY AND HIDE. They are simply NOT confrontational.

    Some day soon, I will visit my son in Truckee & take a drive up there to see if the terrain etc. matches the idea that “they were stuck on the roadway” & had nowhere else to get in our out.”

    I’ll let you know–all of you.

    OaO,

    Richard Stubstad

    • Melissa C.

      Just a thought…..perhaps she was running towards him waving her arms because one of the young ones had come out in the open BEHIND the shooter and none of the “humans” on the scene saw him/her and the mother Sasquatch was trying to warn the “child” to get out of sight and back into the bush. Or trying to draw attention to herself so the humans would not “notice” the young one(s). Just a theory….but it WOULD explain her actions at the time (or at least somewhat explain them).

  5. Robert, Richard is part of the Erickson Project, in as much as he has an NDA with Erickson. If he is speaking here, then it is with Adrian Erickson’s blessing. It’s not a leak! It sounds like you guys are playing some kind of game and are both in bed with Erickson. So basically this sounds to me like some kind of propaganda page and or disinformation page being put out by Erickson. Are you doing this knowingly, or have these people tricked you? Erickson’s reputation in the research world is kind of speckled to say the least. I’m not sure why, I know very little about him, and on the surface his quest seems honorable. However those people that have the other opinion must have their reasons, wouldn’t you say?

    AGAIN: Anything Richard is saying, must have been allowed to be said by Erickson, because Richard has a NDA with Erickson. NDA=NONE DISCLOSURE AGREEMENT.

    Richard also had an NDA with Melba Ketchum, when he was helping her with what ever he says he was helping her with. So, even if that NDA ran out now, and he refuses to sign another one. When he was working for her, it was valid! So morally he is wrong to speak about anything he learned from her or about her samples. Even if he thinks, because it ran out, that he can speak about her data and samples now, he may not be able to. The correct and moral thing to do would be to not speak about it, of course, but it may even still be a legal issue too. I have never seen that NDA, but anyone that is speaking about this stuff when they have been asked not to, is very evil and very untrustworthy if you ask me.

    Please make sure this conversation doesn’t drift to any of the Data from the sample that I have helped contribute to Melba Ketchum’s DNA study on behalf of it’s owner. I have already explained to Richard that I and the owner of the sample, do not want him talking about our sample and any DATA that comes from it. He has no right to speak about it, show pictures of it, or show pictures from the property that it came from either. Unless he has a contract that allows him too talk about this data, or these pictures directly from the owner. They are the owners property and not his. We have revoked those rights from him, even if he did have a contract. He refuses to remove the pictures of the sample from his webpage, and continues to speak in public. Even the data he paid for, is property of the sample owner and is not his, he paid for it on behalf of someone else. Again the person I am working for has no contract with Richard, so Richard has been requested to stop speaking about the DATA as it pertains to that sample. If that is what he is speaking about, then he needs to show us all a contract with the sample owner, that gives him this right. Otherwise both you and he may be in copyright violations, at the very least.

    Robert best wishes, to you. Maybe you’re not as evil as these men? I guess we will soon know. This will also be posted in my blog, on Facebook in my notes and on various other sites. Like Allan R’s who you also visit, in case you see fit to delete it here.

    Alex ^¿^

    • Hello there.

      I do not believe that any of my informants, and I have a few, are violating any kind of NDA’s with anyone. This comes up a lot. I ask questions, and people say, I have an NDA about that, and I can’t talk about that. Or I ask if I can quote that, and they say yes, or quote this but don’t quote that, or don’t quote anything having to do with so and so, or don’t quote anything, or quote me as anonymous, or this or that. There is a lot of stuff I heard but can’t report on because it’s off the record (OTR) and I’m not allowed to talk about it. Anyway, if anyone is violating any NDA’s, that is their problem, no?

      I’ve never met or spoken to Adrian Erickson in my life, but he is definitely one of the people who everyone always says, “Don’t quote anything having to do with Erickson!” Erickson is not behind any of this. I assumed he would hate me for telling me this, but I was told that he does not. This was very surprising to me, as I’m a bit afraid of him myself! Erickson was concerned, and you can quote me on this, that I was using too broad of a term for “Erickson Project.” Adrian wishes to define “EP” as a very minimalist organization – Adrian, Leila Hadj-Chikh and Dennis Pfohl, and that’s it! Everyone else involved with them, including Melba Ketchum, is “not part of the EP.” I think that’s ridiculous, and I refused to run a retraction. Ketchum is listed on their page as doing their DNA work. She’s not part of the EP? GMAB! I think Erickson is doing this for legal reasons. He also wanted it made clear that the EP had nothing to do with killing 2 Bigfoots or with their bodies. True, but the EP did DNA test flesh from dead Bigfoots. I assure you that this is not part of some disinfo project on the part of Erickson. I actually think he is above that sort of thing. He is one of the few folks in this game who is not motivated much by ego from what I can tell.

      I speak very little with Dr. Ketchum. She is not easy to talk to, often demands retractions, makes veiled threats, etc. She has told me things, but generally wishes them OTR, and I honor that.

      I am also very much aware of your sample that I referred to in an earlier post. I know a lot of things about it, but I could not report on them yet because it was all OTR!

      And you just threatened me again, so I am going to have to ban you again, unfortunately.

      • Robert:

        With no disrespect, the only thing I disagree with from what you have said is that the “Erickson Project”, while starting out as ostensibly “with” Dr. Ketchum, only has about 6 submitted samples out of 20 or maybe a lot more (creatures, not “samples” per se). When Adrian signed on with Dr. K in February or March 2011, she didn’t tell him she had other “deals”, including the one with me. And I’m not the only one she had a deal or two with.

        Still, their NDA (the one between Dr. K and Adrian Erickson) seems to indicate that they are a “team” from beginning to end. Having said that, Adrian has nothing to do with the samples I was involved with initially (five samples, to be exact) and also nothing to do with subsequent samples from Paulides, the Olympic Project, and others as well I would imagine.

        Ergo–the “Erickson Project” is not tantamount to the “Dr. K DNA study” other than on paper, which is perhaps worth the material it is written on, by the sounds of things.

        We’ll just have to wait and see how Dr. K can juggle of her diverse and oftentimes contradictory agreements, NDA’s, specimen agreements, etc.

        According to another blog site, the wording she tried to get me to sign (since Dr. K didn’t want to renew the NDA we already had through October of 2010), it is both untenable, TOTALLY lobsiped, and unenforceable legally. Neither Adrian Erickson, I, nor many others I know were willing to sign such an agreement; therefore many folks have more balanced agreements with Dr. K, or they have expired.

        Otherwise, I can’t really contradict anything you’ve said, although (respectfully again) I don’t necessarily believe all of it.

        Richard Stubstad

        PS: It’s really too bad that folks can’t remain civil in these discussion groups. We are all trying the best we can, and should be acting accordingly. Name calling and degrading speech doesn’t lead anywhere–quite to the contrary. May the rest of us ALWAYS take the high road, sir!

        • Sgt Xray

          I believe we have communicated previously on this topic. I am former military and a former state police investigator. I explore remote areas in the North Cascade mountains of Washington state near where I reside looking for lost mines and camps for historical value. During my trips I have encountered these “forest people”. I have seen them as close as 30ft and have left them food. I have heard them speak and I have visited Dr. John Bindernagel several times and told him these appear to me as human. There have been two others with me on one encounter so I am not alone on this. The male I observed from the bridge of the nose to the forehead looked similar to pictures of Heidelberg man?? He was about a foot taller than me and more mass I am 6’2″ at 245 lbs. The young female I observed was about my size and exhibited a shy smile when I shined a light at her when she was near a tree about 60-70 ft away. I believe they are human and will protect them at all costs. They are very real and I really never gave them much thought or believed they really existed until I had some encounters with them. As I travel through their areas I am usually followed by them now after leaving food for them previously. They have never threatened me in anyway. Each time I am in their areas now they seem to get a little closer each time. I don’t plan to take pictures of them or exploit them in any way. I have a rule “if they leave me alone I leave them alone”. People can believe or disbelieve they exist everyone is entitle to their opinions. All I can say for sure is what I have seen and experienced.
          Sgtxray

  6. Looks like I may have missed a typo or two, please forgive me – OLD EYES!

  7. Alex & Robert:

    No, I didn’t speak to Adrian Erickson about my answer to Roberts post, above. Also, I do not believe that Robert’s post is totally correct, while it may be partially correct–I can’t really know anything about that “kill” because the information is fourth-hand AT BEST.

    Regarding “me” refusing to sign a continuing NDA with Melba–not true. SHE is the one that refused to sign the SAME NDA we had originally, albeit with extended dates. I was the FIRST to offer her an amended NDA, which again was essentially the same NDA we had before, but with at least a year’s extension on the cut-off date (more if needed).

    What she offered me instead, obviously didn’t come from her. It came from one of her string of lawyers, as you will see below. Alex, my lawyer (now I didn’t start this adversarial legal business–she did) not only advised me to NOT sign her “new and improved” NDA; but also that it wouldn’t be valid even if I did. He advised me further that her attorney, not her specifically, was a dangerous person and all her current approach would lead to was the ultimate failure of her project–for LEGAL (litigious) reasons, not scientific ones.

    Having said all this, I’m still not absolutely sure this was the reason we had a falling out. The falling out may have been due to our disagreement over this purported kill, or kills, here in the Sierra’s of California that Robert Lindsay has reported on here. While I heard the same stories (more or less) he reported, I never said anything because I still don’t believe it. In any event, I was totally against such a kill (if true, this was MURDER) while Melba thought it was A-OK “for scientific reasons” to kill one of these noble creatures. I then asked her, “well, what’s the difference between Biscardi telling you he would kill one if he could and you condoning such a kill now, all of a sudden?” She answered that, “I want it done for scientific reasons and Biscardi wants it done for publicity.” I told her that wasn’t enough of a difference for my ethical standards–especially since we agreed from day one that our plan was to protect, not kill, these creatures. In other words, I told her, we wanted to get this project completed without any killings, not with a killing.

    That was pretty much the last time I ever heard from her, except to hear that the mito from the purported kill was “human” and therefore she felt she had won the bet we made (a $2 bill, out of principle, not for profit).

    I sure hope she has to pay up; I guess I may find out some day. I know NOTHING about the nuclear DNA of this purported kill–which obviously would either prove her to be the proud winner of a $2 bill; or conversely she found out the mito was ALSO 100% modern (not ancient) human and therefore probably from a cadaver at a mortuary as I suspected (or hoped).

    As far as the rest of your arguments go, Alex, we can take those up off-line, since I’ve never said, to Robert or anyone else, that “your” client(s) have anything whatsoever to do with anything at all I’ve reported on.

    Finally, I have NOT reported any actual sequences; only some generalities. If MELBA had signed THE SAME NDA we had before that expired in October 2010, but with an extension, I would have NOT reported on any of these findings. Furthermore, they are my OWN findings that I passed onto Melba–in good faith–after which for whatever reason, she threw ME out, and not the other way around. Of course, she could do so since we had no NDA any longer, but only at her own peril. SO SAD !!!

    Here is Paragraph 2 of the NDA her attorney wanted me to sign instead. Did YOU sign such a ridiculous and unenforceable NDA, Alex?

    “2. Ownership of Research Results. Assistant agrees that Researcher shall be the sole and exclusive owner of any and all discoveries, ideas, concepts, inventions, know-how, systems, methods, processes, scientific testing results, proprietary information and data, and other things of value conceived, reduced to practice, expressed in a tangible medium, or made or learned by Researcher, whether alone or with others, in connection with the Research (jointly and severally the “Results”). Assistant further agrees that Researcher shall be the sole and exclusive owner of all intellectual property rights and other rights, arising out of, in connection with and/or relating to the Research and Results, including, without limitation, all copyrights, patent rights (including all divisions, reissues, reexaminations, continuations and extensions thereof, and all foreign equivalents thereof), trademark rights, goodwill, know-how, trade secrets, industrial rights, and moral rights (jointly and severally the “Rights”) Assistant irrevocably waives the enforcement of any and all moral rights which may have accrued to Assistant. In addition, Assistant agrees to cooperate and do any and all lawful things requested by Researcher necessary or useful to ensure that the ownership by Researcher of all Research, Results and Rights is protected. As the sole and exclusive owner of the Research, Results and Rights, Researcher shall have the sole and exclusive right to exploit the Research, Results and Rights worldwide in any medium, whether now known or hereafter existing, without any monetary, compensatory, attribution, credit or other obligation to Assistant.”

  8. All:

    Sorry, I meant to say that the Erickson Project “joined in” on the DNA study in February or March of 2010, not 2011. Sorry for the typo. His samples likely comprise less than 1/3 of the entire lot of samples Dr. K is working on, and he has nothing whatsoever to do with the other 2/3 of samples, at least not to my knowledge.

    Richard Stubstad

    PS: I’ll write to Alex Hearn though personal emailings. This is not the man I knew a year or more ago; I think there must be some things going on in his life that are very difficult for him; therefore, all of us (who know him) see a whole lot of lashing out at virtually everyone except Dr. K. No promises, but I’ll try to keep peace with the man as long as I can. We all have our trials and tribulations.

  9. Dr. Melba Ketchum

    Richard and the others backing him,

    I am really enjoying all the fiction being posted,it is laughable. I don’t even care what you say because you have no data to know anything at this point and all you have is guesses. I know where your messed up info is coming from now also so be not deceived. However, Richard, you are lying and misquoting me which like I say is entertaining with one exception and that is saying I am pro-kill for any reason whatsoever. I am publicly calling you a liar. I have literally thousands of clients and many friends who would tell you I wouldn’t even spay a pregnant animal or euthanize anything that had any hope for survival. I love all living creatures and would never advocate a kill. I really feel sorry for all of you egotistical, greedy, and emotionally ill individuals. I guess you are saying this to give credibility to your threat to “make me the sorriest woman on the planet”. Yes, of course that got back to me too. Let’s just tell it how it is. You are ticked off because I didn’t want to be a part of your money making scheme because the two of you were unethical and you are angry that I distanced myself from you even though I offered an NDA with more teeth since you violated the first one blatantly prior to the offer of the second NDA you took offense to. The way you are living is not how life should be lived. Just remember you reap what you sow. I hope you are all blessed in spite of your hatred and bitterness.

    Dr. Melba S. Ketchum

    • Melba:

      Nice to hear from you again, albeit in a slightly different forum. I still plan to pay you–if I lose–those two bets we have for a $2 bill (each); unless they cancel out, of course. Still, though, I expect to collect on both bets (do you recall them, exactly?).

      I realize your lawyer told you to offer me the second NDA, since it was written in “legalese” and not either of our “laymen’s” language. As I said, though, my attorney advised me otherwise, so sorry–thanks but no thanks.

      Are you now denying that you told me, when I told you I hoped that “Sierra kill” was false or a hoax, you said, “I hope it isn’t”? Then I said why, to which you said, “because it is for science”? Isn’t that advocating a kill, or do you actually deny saying this?

      When I then asked you what the difference is between Biscardi advocating a kill and you advocating a kill, you said, “because I’m advocating it for scientific reasons, while Biscardi is just showboating (or some such), or doing it for publicity?” You know I didn’t agree with you (about the Sierra kill(s)). Is THAT what turned you off, Melba?

      Please confirm or deny.

      Are you also saying that the data for the mtDNA sequencing for the first two samples were incorrect? I understand from you that they were sequenced by an excellent “subconsultant” lab. Were the sequences therefore incorrect? Is that what you are saying? Or are you saying my statistical analyses were incorrect?

      Thanks, and good luck on those $2 bill bets (or at least one of them). As I said, I’m willing to pay–and I will do so–if I lose. I know you can’t say anything yet about winning or losing these!

      Richard

      PS: I don’t know who you mean by my “backers”. No one is backing me. I can take care of myself, thanks.

      • Chullo

        “I really feel sorry for all of you egotistical, greedy, and emotionally ill individuals. … The way you are living is not how life should be lived. Just remember you reap what you sow. I hope you are all blessed in spite of your hatred and bitterness.”
        You seem to have a touch of bitterness yourself, Peachy.
        There seems to be a little paranoia, projection and self-righteousness around the the Erickson Project. If I was uncharitable, I would say it’s because the whole bigfoot movement is full of kooks with little connection to reality.

        Stubstad – I can’t see how Melba wishing that an already dead corpse is a bigfoot is advocating killing. I can only assume you want to defame her. A historian interested in the Civil War would hope that remains found in a battle field are from the war, but that doesn’t mean the historian wants to go on a killing spree.

        • Not exactly Chullo. The discussion went that she “hoped” there had been a “kill”, not that she did the killing herself. I was shocked that she hoped for such a thing. I wanted this done WITHOUT more killing (assuming this was really a kill). Meanwhile, I don’t know if this kill was encouraged by her internet radio appearance last November or not, or whether it was merely the Olympic Group involved in the purported killing (again, if it even occurred and is not a hoax or a trick).

          It is also possible that Dr. K knows by now (through DNA testing) that it was in fact a hoax; or not.

          Richard Stubstad

  10. I have been lucky enough to have seen a sasquatch from less than 30 yards in the Marble Mountains of Northern California. I can say with utmost certainty that these animals, although bi-pedal, ARE NOT human. This whole notion that these animals are human is a bunch of BS! This whole story about some well known hunter shooting two of them and not coming forward is the biggest load of crap I’ve heard in quite some time. I’m still laughing.

  11. Wow! All that’s missing is an evil twin, a paternity test and a principal character in a coma to round out this soap opera.

  12. Australian aborigines are an extant, relict Homo erectus population that has survived to this day.
    Anthropologists know this, but a ‘wall of silence’ stops publication.

  13. charlie

    WOW, Doctors lawyers and Indian Cheifs, Oh my. Its no wonder the main stream stays away from this subject. Sounds to me like every one of you people are so busy stabbing each other in the back or mis-representing each others work that it would be hard to prove if this animal is real if he/she/it, walked into the New York Times, sat down and did interviews. I love the site and I am sure in my own mind this creature exist. To bad you all are so busy with the in fighting and dis-information. Makes for some quality laughs!! Keep up the good work boys and girls. ps: think (Ohio)

  14. Let’s clarify a few things here. This is no more the Erickson project than it is my project, our project, our the hundreds of samples and contributors into this study. This is a study that Erickson has some samples into. No more. No less.

    Erickson does have millions invested into his project, not millions invested into the DNA study headed by Dr. Ketchum.

    This latest round of disinformation seems to have and Axe to grind with the Olympic Project? That’s unfortunate. The work and research they are doing is impressive.

    JC Johnson

  15. WHY IS IT THAT EVER SINCE ALL OF THIS FASCINATING DISCOURSE COMMENCED, (WITH ALL OF THESE GOOD PEOPLE INVOLVED) I KEEP HEARING, FROM UP THERE IN THE BACK OF MY HEAD, WHERE THE TINY IRISH BRAIN LIVES, A LITTLE SONG, RUNNING OVER AND OVER…
    IT’S … GEORGIA ON MY MIND. … PB.

  16. The Real Scoop On Dr. Melba’s DNA Study (David Paulides).

    by Jc Johnson on Wednesday, June 29, 2011 at 2:27pm
    .

    Blog #109- The Bigfoot DNA
    Project

    This bigfoot world is an amazing place with equally amazing

    people.

    As the leader of the organization that started the Bigfoot DNA

    project, the organization that has supplied the most specimens and the person

    who is sitting on the sidelines watching statements made about our supposed

    results, I am highly disappointed in some people, people that asked to join the

    project, people who were embraced and given opportunity and specified
    access.

    The statements you are reading in the media about our supposed

    results hurt all members of our team, members that have sat on the sidelines,

    kept their secrets to themselves, quietly and professionally did their jobs and

    chose to abide by an understanding that nobody would make statements until the
    scientific white paper was printed in a science journal.

    Certain

    individuals that were allowed to join the project have personal objectives that

    were more important to them then the teams objectives, something that can never

    be compromised when you’re a member of a progressive team, the team always comes

    first. If you’ve ever been a member of a team, any team, the success of that

    team brings ongoing discoveries and synergy that can last for years. This team

    overcame significant obstacles, weathered the storm, stayed together, the

    consummate word “together”, and they had compassion for others feelings and

    concerns. To borrow a statement I continually heard from my years of playing on
    sports teams, “There is no “I” in team.”

    I’ve been at this for over six

    years and continually on the DNA Project for three. Standing next to me for

    these years is a group of phenomenal researchers that haven’t asked for

    publicity, leaked information or tried to upstage their partners. We have all

    stood in line, quietly and respectfully waiting for the scientists, writers,

    hair and fiber experts and other contractors to complete their tasks, it has
    been lengthy

    The reason why we took the DNA path is because of the

    aggressive assertions some researchers have made about the biped. DNA is the

    fingerprint of life, DNA identifies what the biped is, and we then have an

    indisputable answer. Remember, this isn’t a one or two specimen; these are

    samples from across North America. This isn’t one laboratory doing the testing;

    several have crosschecked the work of others. There is a specific story line

    about each of the specimens, how they were obtained, witnessed and how they are
    associated with the biped.

    I can guarantee that the information you are

    reading in the media is but a shot glass of sludge on a mountain of data. The

    people releasing the information have extremely fragmented data on two of our

    100+ samples. These people are not DNA experts, have never worked in that field

    yet feels compelled to let the world know their opinions. When we started the

    process of accumulating specimens we had hoped for a dozen, the project slowly

    grew and momentum took hold and we started to get inquiries from across North

    America. The results have been nothing short of enlightening, encouraging and
    surprising.

    Dr. Melba Ketchum is the star of this team. Yes, we did

    interview a variety of scientists prior to enlisting Dr. Ketchum’s services, but

    she had the interest, background and demeanor to work with a variety of

    personalities and professions and be successful in the endeavor. Without Dr.

    Ketchum’s nonstop commitment to this study, it would never have reached the

    point it has today. She has attempted to balance a myriad of interests while

    keeping a professional and polite demeanor; she should get a gold medal for her
    efforts.

    The next time you read anything associated with our project,

    understand that unless it comes directly from Dr. Ketchum, nobody has all of the

    results. There is only one DNA expert who has all the data sitting in front of

    them, Dr. Ketchum. There will always be people in this world who want to inflict

    pain and suffering into others who have worked years at a project, for little or

    no compensation, and it’s those people that gain some level of satisfaction in

    knowing they’ve inflicted that pain, taken the air out of that balloon, it’s

    those people I feel sorry for, for it’s those people who don’t understand that

    there is a far greater success in being a member of a group and not being an
    individual.

    Thank you Dr. Ketchum for your nonstop commitment to this
    project!

    Yes, we are still accepting specimens for DNA testing. The DNA

    Project has a benefactor who pays for the testing process, the testing process

    and examination by a hair and fiber expert costs the submitter nothing. If you
    are interested in submitting a sample, please contact me directly.

    Thank

    you to each of you who have participated and supported each member of our team.

    You have my personal apology that this process has taken three years, but great
    results take time, it will be worth the wait. …..

    David

    Paulides

  17. I’m almost out of popcorn. Who do I believe now that the cats out of the bag? One thing for sure is that we “do” have DNA samples. That’s all that should matter really. How you got the tissue samples, that’s going to be in the new book I’m writing: “Guns, Germs, and Bigfoot: The Fates of Sasquai Species”

  18. Just my two cents worth ~~~ I don’t know about the rest of you and your sighting, far and near… I had a face to face showdown with a Bigfoot in my camp and he was drawn in because of the food cooking on the campfire.
    My story has been posted many times.
    This “Being” was NOT an ape. He was a sort of feral-human of sorts and he showed intelligence. He saw that he’d be shot at if he decided to knock me and my two buddies aside for the food and run for it.
    He showed the intelligence to just leave.
    This was in 1957 and there was no house hold word as a Bigfoot.
    This was ten years before the Patterson/Gimlin Bluff Creek film.
    To us, he was a monster. We all survived but were freaked out.

    • Yeah, That’s what i found out too. Only problem is, they’re not feral humans. I need to ask you a question, if you don’t mind?
      The “being” you saw. Did it have a sort of ugly pug nose?
      Because That’s what I’ve got on 2 photos.
      Strange thing is, that “ugly pug nose” also is on the patterson/gimlin creature.
      I also have a photo of a P-G type, and his nose is about the same, only this PG type is covered in hair from head to toe.

  19. Dano

    Robert wrot: “relict Hominids, cavemen from the Stone Age, continue to live among us to this very day.”

    Well duh I could’ve told you that, I see them everytime I go to the Irish Rose pub.

  20. Tom Naff

    Why can’t we all just get along?

  21. dsfsfdsd

    you have autism

  22. Dano

    Here in florida they’re alternately called “skunkapes” and “Haints”.
    I don’t know what to think. I’ve been out in the scrub and glades since I was a boy, hunting, exploring and tracking, occasionally tenting, never saw anything like one. Not even unidentified events.
    Every sound at night has a signature quality. Moving around in the palmetto thickets without making alot of noise is impossible. I’ve had wild hogs come crashing out towards me, but never chewbaca. Don’t care to either.

  23. Alan

    When I’m having a bad day I come home,turn on my computer and start reading this stuff.We all know exsist,NOW comes the time when people start thinking about how much $$$$ they can make.It’s to bad it has come to this becuase I bet ALL the parties involved said at the begining of there love affair with this subject ” I don’t care about money,I just want everybody to know they exsist”.What I think would be funny is if the feds would come out and tell us that Sasquatch DOES exsist and that they have known about them for MANY years,and they come out with this a week before the
    so called experts on here come out with there DNA findings !!!.
    socalled

  24. apehuman

    A great deal of the information some here claim to be confidential is readily available in public domain/media. Example: larry Jenkins of Seligman, AZ is the “owner” of the fingernail/toenail submitted by Tom Biscardi on his behalf. At that time, 2009, Tom Biscardi and “Java Bob ” agreed to come to AZ to work with Larry. I know this b/c at thatr time I too was having my own Bigfoot expereinces in another part of AZ. Alex Hearn came into the picture via Tom Biscardi, who included him as a sub on his old Bigfoot web/radiocasts. Alex continued with Biscardi on his “show” and meeting him at Larry’s cabin. I beleive Tom paid a few expenses for Alex so he could drive up (it’s 3-4 hours from Phoenix) and continue “research.” I beleive some of those trips are posted on the “Searching for Bigfoot” site. It also appears Java Bob and Tom Biscardi parted ways and somehow the fingernail sample is now associated with Java Bob. I don’t beleive Alex works “for” Java Bob…
    On “being human”.. I do look forward to the DNA sequencing, etc b/c I beleive the physiical differences I have witnessed are significant enough to be valuable to our own understanding of the purpose of some genes yet unknown. I want to know if they have the HAR1 gene and FOXB2… although I predict Sasquatch will be in a the genus Homo….the closeness to modern H.apiens will be there..Surely there is some genetic variation that relates to this apparent self illuminating “eye shine” which I have witnessed on many occassions. There should also be some differences in genes associated with speech as their language is not know to any historic tribe or peoples. So what is “Human?” Is it tool making? Is it art? Language? or just the DNA?
    My experiences tell me they recognize symbols and appreciate art/mucsic and are capable of creating simple wooden structures and use simple flaked rocks. I have seen no fine rock work or fine art. It seems they are on the dawn of the stone age (whether by choice or biological limits) and since this apparent defining commonality of modern humans is our advanced tool making…we may find defining Human becomes more narrow. Recall the changes since Leakey and Goodall in what is “human.”
    These Bigfoots aren’t “us” and yet they are quite similar physically and in apparent attitude. They choose who to “talk” with and train their offspring to retain their culture. They are a tribe, and as such, as we now know with our disaterous interactions with the Amazon tribers, it’s hands off if we really are the advanced people we claim. Hands off. If Bigfoot agree to study or contact (and some do) we will be able to get even more important data, behavioral data. So all the DNA won’t answer what we need to know…who are they, what can we predict about behaviors, how can we help them and live in harmony. Not everyone will agree about what to do with the “Sasquatch Problem”..I assume why our Gov wont’ talk about it and relies (apparently?) on our Wilderness sytem to ptortect them. Additionally laws already exist to prosecute anyone who shoots one (assuming of course self defense is not the true reason..and I assume many see a BF and b/c it is a frightening experience import into the innocent BF menancing behavior – in three years of contact I have not experienced any aggresive behavior). And, as you all see here, laws don’t prevent murder..and are not much of a deterrant either. Education, truth, reality…are all better tools with which to educate the public and protect Sasquatch.
    As far as I can tell Bigfoots do not want to know us, at all. They have little need for our material culture (exceptions so far are music, videos and some small trinkets) and yet seem quite curious about it. But again, the fear they have toward us is apparently warranted. I personally have arrived at a point where the “proof” must happen to stop the madness….and yet, I am also aware how really skilled these people are, the Bigfoots, at living among us undetected. This mushy data could go on forever…
    I am troubled by it all..from claims on BFRO’s website “the only Scientific Research team”….to well…you name it….and then there is a site like Paulides..www.nabigfootsearch.com that shares with the public a great deal of well researched information, not to mention two great books. So unless one puts in the effort to communicate responsibly..such as a well researched paper, book, etc then it’s all just this web scum (I mean as in pond scum)….so I do very much look forward to Ketchum’s paper, but I also look forward to a better way to meet and learn about Sasquatches…our amateur efforts are really obscuring the truth. An example would be the website Alex started for his buddy Mitch (the Mogollon Monster Chaser) on the subject.
    I am still sitting on my data and have left the state, and events there led to a natural end to my research as well. I got to the point of understanding my “research” was interupting and perhaps even threatening, the lives of three Bigfoots . A Father, a Mother and a Child. That’s what they are now to me. A Family. How terrible to interefere with that..even with altuistic motives, b/c I can’t know the consequences of my interactions to their culture…or Dad’s edicts!

    We all need to back off. Get out of the field in our aggresive chasing/trail cam ways and leave them alone. They own the night and have for some very long time. We vacate the night… it works.

    again..typing online with no glasses and little interest in editing.
    But I have found this discussion interesting. I have a hard time believing Melba Ketchum actually made that post. I did try and edit just now and post..however, I think I may have accisdently posted this twice..so sorry about that and hope you all look to content…and the important questions and we begin to proceed in policy discussions, rather than continue to harrass our pasts.

    • Apehuman:

      I’m sorry, but I don’t recall if I’ve addressed you personally in this or any other forum.

      I agree 100% with what you say. I know about 90% of what you say from other sources, and it is ALL true.

      This is the best post I’ve ever seen in these “Robert Lindsay” threads about sasquatch. You are to be commended, sir or ma’am.

      I also hope that the “discovery” of sasquatch (assuming it is widely accepted, also in scientific circles), whether through Dr. K’s study or any other follow-up or concurrent study, will lead to their TOTAL protection. What more important creature to protect on this earth, assuming the research pays off, is our Homo-…ses cousins, is beyond me. A relic of the past living in our midst, and NOT the wooly mammoth or some such–another hominid or even a feral human (or both)!

      The spotted owl may benefit as a lessor “indicator species”, just as a side effect of the results of all of the work many of have done–including but not limited to Dr. K.

      Those that don’t benefit would be timber companies (especially) and mining and drilling interests of various sorts, to be sure. Unfortunately, that may not play well with the politicians, whether here or in Canada, since their campaigns are in large part funded by Big Business.

      Still, Apehuman, we haven’t even gotten beyond Step 1–scientific and political recognition of the sasquai. That’s why I’m doing what I’m doing. I truly fear the lawyers have messed up Dr. K’s (et.al.’s?) study. I hope I’m wrong about this, but look at Lloyd Pye as a good example of where I’m right about basically a “one-man” show.

      Thanks for your intelligent and heart-felt post.

      Richard Stubstad

  25. apehuman

    Thank you. You may contact me through the apehuman@yahoo.com. I do believe the proof must occur, it’s time. But, I do desire, in advance of proof, that those who really care come together with some serious policy discussions about what we can do to to educate the public when “proof’ is out. There will be a mad dash of reporters to existing websites and books. Unfortunately not too many of those are accurate or promote serious solutions to a future with Sasquatch “outed.” There won’t be any threat of money or profit to corrupt these policy endeavors (really?). It will be interesting to see who those future policy players will be. I would be very dissapointed if the voice of “Sasquatch” continued to be represented by some of the many “Monster” writers and videographers. And yes, one of my last trips left me with the feeling I had just had a conversation with H.erectus….really thrilling. The Goodall approach is the only one that will work. It takes courage and trust and time.
    I have no problem with your “leak”.. NDA’s have their limits and of course there must be damages from the “leak” to make it worth enforcing. What damages here?

  26. The bottom line in all of this is that the results of Dr. Ketchum’s DNA study need to be published in a scientific journal. This has been a long time coming and I for one, hope this happens sooner rather than later. You just have to hope that people will act responsibly and treat Sasquatches as a real living tribe of Hominids, not a bunch of wild scarey apes or monsters. I understand that it is a stretch to expect all people to deal with Sasquatch as a real living species responsibly, but lets be honest and realistic here, what other choice do we have?

    Allan W. Rodriguez

  27. I have heard the Apehuman stories over and over and every time, when pursued, they vanish into thin air. These people talk with an air of authority and superiority requesting they be heard because they have had “conversations” or interactions of some kind on an ongoing basis with the “others”.

    The last one outed was “Mike” of AW’s “Enoch” who pretty much said the same things Apehuman is saying. He admitted on line it was all pure crap.

    Hey, if you want to chase phantoms, go ahead, but don’t expect mainstream science to start taking an interest in serious research of a species that can’t be photographed, tracked or otherwise censused but can freely offer up body fluids and parts for DNA analysis.

  28. Massachusetts

    @apehuman: I’ve always been a big fan of Jane Goodall and her methods, ever since I was a kid and her documentaries were coming out. In your opinion, what is up with the lack of photographs? Did you ever try to take photos, and if not, why not? If you did, may we please see them? And what do you believe is happening when so many trail cams don’t turn up photos? Do you believe they are aware of cameras through extra sensitive senses and they avoid them? Any ideas why they would be so cautious about such devices? If they are on the edge of the stone age with a limited material culture, then why would they be so concerned and wary of a trail cam, which they could easily ignore and which don’t hurt them in any way? I am trying to understand this aspect of the phenomenon, which skeptics point out. I’m hoping you may have some insights. Thank you very much.

    PS Any one who feels they have quality insights on these issues I would be happy to hear from as well.

    • Mass,
      Let me give you some of my theory as for why these “creatures” are so cautious about game cameras.
      What do Forest Rangers look for?
      Poaching and marijuana plantations.
      At most pot growing installations you’ll find that some are protected by small explosive devices that are neatly packaged inside of water and weather tight boxes.
      They almost would have to look alot like a rectangle box like that of a trailcam. Have these bigfoot run into these installations? I would have to say 100% yes, without a doubt.
      Now think of these bigfoot walking into these installations and tripping an explosive, and one loses a hand, a foot, an arm or, a life.
      I’m pretty sure that these bigfoot learn what to stay away from.
      Unfortunately, pot growing inatallations might be the culprit.
      I know that if I lost a hand, and survived to tell the tale, I would spread the word really quick, and I would also never mess with a plastic little box ever again, either!

      I’ve spent a long time pondering this myself. I would have to say that i’m pretty sure that I hit the nail on the head.
      What do you people think?

  29. Pingback: Was Esau a Neanderthal? « Jewamongyou's Blog

  30. Maurice Cloud

    May an interested and reasonably informed amateur weigh in with a thought or two, or three . . ? Once and when Sasquatch is discovered — and I mean this in the scientific sense of the word — it will be without argument the single most significant biological event since Darwin . . . which may explain all the blood in the water evident in the above posts. With the amount of money to be had and reputations to be made inherent in substantiating the critters’ existence one might say that the above exchanges are almost on the civil side of this argument! But on to the opinionating — Despite the fact that Dr. Ketchum appears to be from Texas I rather doubt that this, or anything else for that matter, is reason enough to think that she is the scientific community’s version of Yosemite Sam chasing Sasquatch down a hill a-hootin’ and a-shootin’, “Come back here ya varmit! I need yer hide fer a siuntifik xpearamint!!!” That she seems grateful that cadavers are available for her work does not equate, in my eyes anyway, with any personal bloodlust. But, as I am the first to admit, I do not know the lady. Dr. Stubstad, everything that I have read about and by you paints an impressive and substantial picture. In a field thoroughly crowded with professional hoaxers and professional morons you contribute the much-needed element of rational scepticism with-in your larger view of acceptance of the existence of this unknown hominin. I wish your sensibilities were wider shared. As for the Erickson Project, well, one wishes them the best, but am I the only one who seems put off by the image of Sasquatch that they’re putting out there, to wit: a Star Wars-ized version of the critter that appears to me to be designed to de-monsterize Sasquatch as well as providing it with a warm and friendly cultural reference point to increase its acceptance factor in a world of doubting thomas’ . . ? And I am highly suspicious of how the ‘look’ of Todd Standing’s Sasquatch completely changed after his involvement, if that’s the right word, with the Erickson Project. Still, the EP has some very professional individuals on board who would seem to understand better than most the perils of involving themselves in a hoax. As for the corpses of Biggie F . . . Who knows? There are so many stories out there of people shooting what turns out to be a Sasquatch that are more or less believable either way. Hunters are as diverse a population as the greater population at large that they are drawn from. Is the hunter who shoots a Sasquatch(either by design or accident) and fails to understand the historical and scientific significance of the event any different from the one who hunts out of season, or takes restricted animals? On the other hand isn’t it equally plausible that a hunter having shot this critter would as easily be so emotionally overcome as to not report it? I tend to believe that one, at the very least, of these individuals would find a way to haul the body out with them. Finally, big thanks to Robert Lindsay for providing this forum on this most interesting of topics. Cheers!

  31. Thanks from me too, Maurice. After all the bashing that goes on both here and elsewhere, you are like a shining light in the pervasive darkness of human consciousness.

    BTW, I am also somewhat doubtful of the Todd Standing stuff since his last picture was released on sylvanic.com. I think we can trust that Adrian will figure this out, too, since he knows the guy better than both of us combined. Of course, if Adrian finds out for sure that Todd really IS hoaxing his stuff, he’ll never let it be released. That would be a better outcome than leaving Todd to his own devices (assuming that a set of hoaxes ends up being the conclusion about his work).

    As far as Adrian’s “take” on the nature of the sasquai, really all he knows for sure is what I have published on-line at: http://www.ScienceAliveNews.com.

    Everything else has come in verbally from either Dr. Ketchum or others who have gotten most, if not all, of their information from Dr. K as her “take” on the DNA data. I have also heard at least part of this additional information from her, last year, but I haven’t reported it because I have not seen the actual DATA to support or reject her conclusions. From my experience in working with her, I really have no idea if there is an ulterior (albeit spiritually supported) motive behind her conclusions, or if she has or hasn’t checked out alternative theories from a purely scientific point of view.

    Time will tell. Meanwhile, someone else–a highly credible team of international scientists–will have to either verify or reject Dr. K’s conclusions based on NEW DNA DATA. Just like with cold fusion, if one cannot repeat the “experiment”, it is likely an incorrect conclusion. In this case, I suspect the experiment will be repeatable, but not necessarily the conclusions.

    Time will tell …

    Richard Stubstad

  32. I AM PERPLEXED. IF, AS THE OLYMPIC PROJECT PEOPLE ADAMANTLY CLAIM, THERE WAS A SHOOTING (OF ONE OR MORE BIGFOOT) THEN OBVIOUSLY THERE IS A CARCASS SOMEWHERE; NO ONE, NOBODY, IS GOING TO SHOOT A BIGFOOT AND THEN JUST WALK OFF AND LEAVE IT LYING THERE. SO, IF THE SHOOTING STORY IS REAL, THEN THERE’S GOT TO BE A CARCASS SOMEWHERE AND IF THIS IS SO, THEN WHY DO WE NEED DNA?
    PETER BYRNE. FRGS.

  33. Maurice Cloud

    Hi Peter. Your point is a valid one in the larger picture, to wit: if people are indeed running around shooting these critters(and apparently have been for decades) then where’s the, umm, bloody body!?!? Nature, as I’m sure you know, absolutely loves dead things judging by how quickly it devours them. Scavengers from the size of grubs on up go to work on a corpse immediately reducing it, with the aid of non-sentient allies, acidic soils, erosion, etc . . . , to something just above the status of a ghost in no time a’tall. But you appear to really be addressing the supposed 2010 incident on the Ca./Nev. border that Robert Lindsay is so admirably keeping us informed of. If these gentlemen were well and truly in the employ, or professional association of, The Olympic Project then don’t you find it a bit peculiar at the least that the kill site was not documented; hair, blood, and skin samples not taken, along with several other procedures left undone? I do. Why is this information not being leaked to Mr. Lindsay? Instead we are left with the tale of a couple of professional hunters bristling with enough firepower to bring down a Wooly Mammoth shooting something and then running away with tale, sorry, tail between their legs . . . I share your frustration and scepticism. Cheers!

  34. Apehuman,
    Why didn’t you “Leave them alone?”
    You were out in the field for weeks on end, almost until the very day you HAD to move out of state.
    The hypocrisy runs wild with you!
    And for your information, There weren’t just a small family in the area you researched, but many, many more!
    And yes, I do have the photographic proof to back up my claim.
    I agree on some parts of your post, but find it really hypocritical of you when you were out in the area and poking around and following trails.
    And as for having a problem with putting out cameras, Remember the nightvision camera that I helped you figure out how to run?
    You put that wireless camera out there.
    Nuff said about that!

    I will agree with you on the point that these animals WILL NOT ATTACK A HUMAN!
    This too, I have pictures of proof. The same series of photographs that show adults AND INFANTS!
    Younger sasquatch and infants along with adults, and my Fiance and myself were never attacked, growled at, hissed at, and we didn’t have anything thrown at us. They simply slipped into the tree’s and brush, and left the area.
    And why exactly did you give up trying to get photographic, videographic and thermal imaging proof? You and your friend had it all up there.
    I don’t understand why you now have a different stance all of the sudden?

    • Maurice Cloud

      Love to see the photographs. Any chance that you will posting them on some site . . ? “Will not attack a human!” may be too restricting a statement. There are reports, and, yes, they’re only ‘reports’, that Sasquatch has indeed attacked humans, perhaps not you in particular, but others. It is probably more accurate to state that we’re(humans) just not on the menu. And a good thing — they’d make short work of us . . . Cheers!

      • Justin

        The photographs are at her youtube site. They ain’t much. Think Christopher Noel.

      • Maurice, I only use evidence and work on methods using personal accounts of my own. I don’t use others methods because to me, I don’t know how much of their stories are actually real or made up.
        Plus, I’m totally a passive researcher. So, when I say that these bigfoot won’t attack human, is from personal experience. I’ve been in very close quarters with these bigfoot at MANY times.
        These animals most likely had a fun time spooking me and others in my group. They seem to get a kick out of scaring unsuspecting campers.
        And although that others in the group and myself were HIGHLY spooked, When I look back at what exactly took place, I then see that I was part of a “Fun Time” in their view.
        I’ve heard stories of them chasing people and vehicles, But the outcome never left anybody dead or hurt, Just scared and spooked. These stories come from here in Arizona.

  35. Mr. Byrne,
    I’m hoping that you read this, I would like to ask you a question, if you don’t mind?
    I’m an independant researcher here in Arizona. I do have photogaphs of these bigfoot. And I’m finding that many look very similar to humans, while others do not at all.
    But do you think that there might possibly be more than one type of “unknown” creature out there?
    You’ve read the reports, and people’s descriptions seem to fall into two or three different looking “beings”.
    1: Big hairy man.
    2: Cross between a man and an ape.
    3: Big ape or monkey.
    Because I am finding all three here in Arizona.
    What’s your take on this, if you don’t mind me asking?

  36. Just very briefly, there are most likely several “strains” of the sasquatch.

    I see two decidedly different strains (or haplotypes) out of only three mito samples.

    There will be more.

    We just have to get the job done. Let me know if anyone has any well-kept and fairly certain samples.

    Richard

  37. I AM JUST A LAYMAN WITH NO SCIENTIFIC CREDENTIALS AT ALL. AGAIN, I HAVE NEVER SEEN ONE OF THESE CREATURES. SO, ALTHOUGH I HAVE BEEN IN THE FIELD FOR MORE THAN FIFTY YEARS, ANY CONCLUSIONS THAT I MIGHT HAVE ARE, I MUST ADMIT, BASED ON SPECULATION. CREDIBLE EYEWITNSS REPORTS AND THE P&G ’67 FOOTAGE DEPICT AN UPRIGHT WALKING PRIMATE WITH A FACE THAT IS MORE HUMAN THAN APE AND EYES THAT SHOW WHITE, A DISTINCTLY HUMAN TRAIT. THESE TWO CHARACTERISTICS-EYE WHITE AND BIPEDAL GAIT-SUGGEST TO ME, RIGHTLY OR WRONGLY, THAT WHAT WE HAVE IN THE BF IS A HOMINID, HAIR COVERED AND VERY PRIMATIVE BUT NEVERTHELESS NOT HOMINOID. AS TO THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT HAVE BEEN MENTIONED, YES, I WOULD LOVE TO SEE THEM. PB.

  38. peter byrne

    WHAT WERE YOU COOKING? WAS IT BACON AND EGGS? AND CAN WE PLEASE SEE THE PHOTOGRAPHS. WE HEAR ABOUT SO MANY PHOTOGRAPHS (E.G. FROM HABITUATION SITES) BUT NEVER SEEM TO GET TO SEE THEM? PETER BYRNE. FRGS.

  39. Skylar

    This is all very frustrating , the longer this drags out the more it looks like a Hoax.

  40. Dear all.
    4-get this and look for records relating to bears in canada with there lower jar torn of, the BF-males do this.
    I know most, if not all records were removed , but there are some dating back to the 1920,s out there.

    I have also been told of a base were live BF,s are held, but know evidence.
    I was told its in Iowa?

  41. Charles

    Don’t trash Texas hunters! Texas has some of the best hunters in the world. “Smug ex-Texan prick” wasn’t necessary. He may be a smug prick and a redneck but you made it sound like that was all Texans.
    Charles from Austin

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