New Erickson Project News: Bigfoot DNA Project Using Two Dead Bigfoot Bodies for Samples

Note: Long, runs to 24 pages.

I was recently put into touch with a hunter from Western North America who is quite well known in his field. You might even say that he is famous. He and others were the subject of a recent book, and he often gives talks at various forums. He was formerly employed at America’s foremost science museum but is no longer working there.

He is considered to be at the top of his field, which I will not reveal here. He is also a hunter and travels around North America hunting. He especially likes to hunt bears. This puts him in touch with many other hunters. He is also active on taxidermy boards. He has deep ties to the Erickson Project and the Olympic Project.

He will be known anonymously as Bear Hunter in this article, as he only talked to me on the grounds that his identity was kept secret.

Robert Lindsay: Hi, what made you decide to get in touch with me?

Bear Hunter: Well, I read your article where you interviewed Richard Stubstad, and I thought, “Wow! This guy is hot on the trial! He’s really close. He’s closing in. So I decided to fill in some blanks for you.”

RL: Is there a reason why you decided to spill the beans on this hot news to me just now?

BH: Yes, I am getting very impatient with the pace of this project. You know, it’s always coming out this year, then next year, then this year again, then next year again, then this spring. I’m getting tired of it. I want to jumpstart this project and tell them to get going and finish it up.

RL: You say you have some blockbuster news regarding the Erickson Project Bigfoot DNA study, right?

BH: Yes I do. This all started from a thread on Taxidermy.net, a website where I hang out. There are sometimes threads on Bigfoots, and in this one thread, in November 2010, a guy said that he had just shot two Bigfoots! The guy is a trapper, a taxidermist and a hunter. This was huge news of course, and pretty soon there were lots of followup posts. Somehow the guy’s name and number got out, and there were reports of people bothering him and harassing him. He asked the webmaster, George Ruff, to shut down the thread. George shut it down.

Well, afterward, I got in touch with the guy and talked to him for a while.  Adrian Erickson, Matt Moneymaker and Tyler Huggins all got involved. Moneymaker and Huggins are with the BFRO (Bigfoot Field Research Organization). Erickson had heard of Bigfoots getting shot; actually, he has lots a number of stories from Canada where they get shot pretty regularly. But, as he put it, “I’ve never been two weeks behind a shooting before.” Everybody was scrambling after this guy!

RL: How was it that the Bigfoots came to be shot, and were they killed?

BH: In November 2010, [name withheld] was hunting on the border between Nevada and California, inside California, near a game refuge. (RL: Based on my investigation, it took place in or near the Dixie Mountain Game Refuge west of Frenchman Lake on the Plumas National Forest in Plumas County. It borders Washoe County in Nevada. See a map here).

On one side of the game refuge, there was this single road in a canyon leading into and out of the refuge. Bigfoots were apparently using the game refuge, since they are safe from hunters there.

The guy was on this road when he came upon a large dirty-white (RL: supposedly female) Bigfoot standing in the road. Since the narrow road was the only route in and out of the place, the Bigfoots were forced to use this road whether they wanted to or not. The Bigfoot was standing there waving her arms at him. I thought maybe she was telling the hunter to back up so the Bigfoot could move through, since the Bigfoot was stuck on the road, no?

The guy stopped his truck and jumped out. He knew it was a Bigfoot, but he thought she was threatening him. The Bigfoot knew his intentions by now, and she started to run away. He shot her with a 25.06. He shot her through the side of her chest, piercing her lungs. The Bigfoot took off into the brush, but he heard her crash down soon afterward.

Next thing he knew, he heard barking sounds coming from the side of the road. There were two young Bigfoots there that popped up out of nowhere. They were brown-colored. The hunter shot one of the young Bigfoots dead! He’s an idiot, right?

It died in his arms. 4 feet tall, 80 pounds. He said it had a huge head, and then I knew it was a young Bigfoot, because the young ones have gigantic heads while they are still young. The head is more normal sized as they get older. Remember that “Pancake Video” from the Kentucky Project, where the young Bigfoot has a huge head that everyone was saying was a human with some birth defect? Well, that is what they look like when they are young.

Have you seen the Jacobs footage that they say is a mangy bear? The shooter told me the juvenile he shot looked just like the Jacobs creature.

RL: Yes, what is it? A bear?

BH: No way. It’s a juvenile Bigfoot. You can tell by the hips. And the neck. The thing has no neck. I know bears. I love bears. No way is that a bear.

RL: Why did he shoot the adult Bigfoot? He says he thought it was a bear.

BH: No. He knew what it was. Because of the color. Bears don’t come in off-white. Anyone knows that. He shot it because he thought it was threatening him.

RL: Why did he shoot the juvenile Bigfoot? He says it got up on an outcrop and was threatening him.

BH: No, that’s not true. Why did he shoot it? He’s that kind of guy. I know a lot of hunters. Most are good people, but some are not. There are a lot of guys like him out there hunting. People shoot things just because they can, just to kill them. That’s why he did it. He did it because that’s what kind of person he is.

RL: What did he do with the Bigfoots?

BH: He told us that he left them lying there. There was snow on the ground, so we figured that there might still be enough time to go in and get the bodies. Pretty soon, we decided that the guy was probably lying. We thought he probably took the bodies, because taxidermists are hoarders – they never leave anything they shoot in the field.

RL: The Olympic Project says they went back to the site over two weeks later and found a bit of flesh on the ground, left over from the shooting. They used this bit of flesh to slice up and submit to the DNA project.

BH: No, they told me they never went back there.

RL: What happened to the dead Bigfoots?

BH: Well, we put the hunter in contact with the Olympic Project that is working on Bigfoots in Washington State. We didn’t hear much for a while, only that the OP folks kept saying, “We are just trying to keep [name withheld] out of jail.” The hunter was convinced that if California figured out he shot these two Bigfoots, he was going to jail. He was really afraid of going to jail.

RL: Ok, then?

BH: Moneymaker and the BFRO were in on this too. It was a mad rush for those bodies!

We didn’t hear much more for a while until the Olympic Project starting sending samples to Melba Ketchum for her DNA project as part of the Erickson Project. Some of the samples that the EP was getting were of tissue, and they looked like they were carved off a dead body!

(RL: One sample appeared to be carved off of the thigh of a human or hominid cadaver. Dr. Ketchum was so freaked out by the sample that she called people up asking them to hold it for her in case the police came to her lab, because she was afraid of going to jail.)

The samples had two different colors of hair. Obviously, the Olympic Project was sending Ketchum samples carved from the bodies of the two dead Bigfoots? Isn’t that incredible?

RL: Who has the Bigfoots, the hunter or the Olympic Project?

BH: I think that the hunter still has the bodies or he has parts of the bodies. Maybe he cut parts off them before he left. If he has the bodies, he has probably cut them up, cut off the heads and has them on ice. They can last a long time like that. I don’t think the Olympic Project has the bodies.

We did a lot more digging, and we found that now the hunter is associated deeply with the OP. He’s part of their project. The OP is not admitting to anything. They deny it all, they say they have no dead Bigfoots, and they don’t have access to any. 

RL: Incredible news!

BH: Yes, there’s more too. Notice how the Olympic Project is all over the Internet boards talking about how they have enough Bigfoot samples to last for years? Guess why they say that? Probably because they have access to two dead Bigfoot bodies! Think about it.

RL: Too much…Do you know about any leaks from the Erickson Project DNA study?

BH: Yes, I do. They are very close to humans. Say if chimpanzees are 2 clicks away from humans, these things are maybe 3/4 of a click away.

RL: Ok, and they are in the Homo line?

BH: Yes, I am sure of that. Recall that say 50,000 YBP, there were maybe five different hominids on the planet. Homo sapiens sapiens, Homo erectus, Homo Floresiensis, Denisova, Homo heidelbergensis and Neandertal Man. All of these other hominids are gone. What happened to them?

RL: We killed them all.

BH: Yes, we killed them all. So the only thing that could survive was something that was huge, very stealthy and wary, hated humans, favored the most remote areas, had the use of bad smell to ward off enemies, used an intense EMF field to paralyze and disorient enemies, was very strong and had a very thick skin that was hard to penetrate. They’re the ultimate survivors of our genocidal wars.

RL: Do you think they are humans or apes?

BH: I don’t know. You know Bindernagel wrote that book, America’s Great Ape, but then after he saw the Bigfoots in Kentucky, he changed his mind. Now he thinks that they are hominids. But I know one fellow who saw one face to face on a trail. He said it’s ape-like; it’s an ape-man. So who knows?

RL: Do you have any info on the Kentucky Project?

BH: I do. Erickson bought that place, and he got a lot of great video out of there. He installed Dennis Pfohl and Leila Hadj-Chikh there, and they shot quite a bit of Bigfoot video. Erickson said he had so much good Bigfoot video that he was getting tired of taking pictures of them. At one point, he brought Bindernagel down there to see the Bigfoots. Bindernagel was able to see them. He also wanted to bring John Green down there, but he was very sick with prostate cancer and could not make it.

A friend of mine saw the famous video of the young female Bigfoot walking in the forest. She walks towards the camera, then sees the camerawoman, growls and turns away. He said there is no way that this could be a costume. They also shot video of a huge male at that site, but everyone is keeping very quiet about that.

RL: Do you believe that Erickson is in it for the money?

BH: I get tired of hearing this. Erickson has sunk $3 million of his own money into this thing. $3 million! He hasn’t made one nickel back.

RL: Do you have any information about Erickson’s movie about Bigfoot?

BH: Yes, it’s finished! 100% completed. They are just waiting for the DNA study to finish up, and I have no word on that yet.

RL: Do you know if Dr. Ketchum has any TV or film interests in the works?

BH: Yes, she is involved with National Geographic. They want to do a special on Bigfoot, and she is involved in that.

RL: What’s the relationship between Bigfoots and trappers?

BH: Bigfoots hang out along traplines and raid them. I heard of one case where a Bigfoot got caught in a trap. The Bigfoot got himself out of the trap by bending the solid steel! Unbelievable!

RL: You say you hear a lot of stories of Bigfoots getting killed?

BH: Yes, I get a story about every 2 months. They range from recent to pretty far back in time. There are many stories coming out of Canada too. Erickson also has many stories. It’s the same story every time. People kill it, and it looks so much like a human being that they leave it in the field because they are afraid they are going to be prosecuted for murder.

RL: I say that if you believe in Bigfoot, you must also believe in a few things. 1) People are shooting at and killing these things fairly regularly. 2) There must be a government coverup. 3) We are photographing and videotaping Bigfoots on a fairly regular basis.

BH: I agree. As far as a government coverup, of course the government must know about these things. And I know that the timber industry knows about them. And people shoot them all the time.

There was a recent case in Alberta where the Fish and Wildlife people were poisoning wolves. They are supposed to tell trappers about this, but they didn’t in this case. A trapper found a dead wolf partly eaten and huge tracks leading away from it. The tracks were of a Bigfoot that had been poisoned by eating the wolf. The guy tracked it for a while but then lost the trail.

He reported it to the Game people, but they paid him $20,000 to shut him up. They kept saying, “So, you lost 5 cougar dogs tracking that thing. That’s worth about $20,000.” He hadn’t lost any cougar dogs. He finally figured out they were offering him money to shut him up, so he took the money.

RL: What’s the motivation for the coverup?

BH: In Canada, they are worried about resource lockup. They are afraid it will shut down logging. I know that up there, as soon as there is a Bigfoot sighting, the timber people get word of it and come in and clearcut the area. They do that to drive the Bigfoot off, because they don’t want the Bigfoot on their logging land. They’re afraid it will keep them from logging the land.

RL: Do you think Bigfoots are getting habituated to humans in any way?

BH: Yes, a friend of mine in Alberta told me about a Bigfoot that was living on the outskirts of the Nordegg dump, living off the garbage, foraging food out of the trash. People tracked the thing way back into a remote area and found its nest. All sorts of stuff from the dump had been hung in trees 8-10 feet up, bicycles, chairs, you name it. The Bigfoot was decorating its home with that stuff.

RL: Wow!

BH: Yes, I have so many stories. When I go to give my talks, I always say if you have any Bigfoot stories, come up and talk to me afterward. Every time, people come up to talk to me. All sorts of people. They haven’t told many others about their sightings, and every case, they have not reported it to any private or public agency.

One guy told me how he was hunting in a swamp in the Southeast US, and he passed out from the swamp gas. The stuff can overwhelm you and make you pass out.

He woke up, and he was next to a spring. There was a huge 8-foot Bigfoot crouched down next to him, offering a cup of water from the spring. The cup had been hanging from the spring. People sometimes hang metal cups from springs. He took a drink, passed out again, and then woke up again later on. The Bigfoot was still there, and it offered him another drink. He drank it and passed out again. He woke up the third time, and the Bigfoot was gone.

RL: Do you think that tracking dogs are good for tracking Bigfoots, say in order to capture one? Jeff Meldrum has been talking about that a lot lately.

BH: I think dogs are useless when it comes to tracking these things. You know, I am a hunter, and I use tracking dogs all the time. We take people out on guided hunts, and I hunt myself all the time using guides. Dogs will track anything, but they won’t track these things. The meanest dog on Earth will be left pissing, shivering and whimpering by his master’s legs.

I knew one guy who sent six dogs after a Bigfoot. Only five of them came back; the sixth was torn up. The other five dogs were so traumatized that they were useless as trackers. They would never track another animal again. And these were good tracking dogs.

RL: What do you think of Bigfoots’ use of infrasound?

BH: I am not sure that they use infrasound. You see, all animals have an EMF field that they give off, and these things do too. One of my theories is that these things have a very strong EMF field that they give off, and they may be able to manipulate it. One thing you notice is that when these things are around, everything goes quiet, and most of the animals around take off. That’s because of the strong EMF field that the Bigfoots give off. It scares the crap out of other animals.

I know that they use this field to disorient people. Erickson said he was being chased out of the forest in Canada by one once, and he was so disoriented and delirious that he had to keep looking at the moss on the trees, because you know, moss only grows on the north? That’s because the Bigfoot was disorienting him so much that he kept getting lost.

I am going to test this theory out by buying an outfit that they sell for $100. It neutralizes your own EMF field. Supposedly, you can wear it and walk right up to animals and touch them.

RL: Were you always a Bigfoot believer?

BH: Not at all. I was a skeptic until five years ago. Then I started looking into this thing, and all of these people started coming forward, including people I had known for years and trusted completely. I started getting swamped with these stories, even people I had known a long time had stories, but they had never told me! I dove into it, started doing a lot of research, and soon it became completely obvious that these things exist. People can ridicule me all they want to, and they do, believe me. But I don’t care; I know they are real.

RL: Have you met any skeptics who saw one?

BH: Many times. And a lot of them were hardcore skeptics. But then they saw a Bigfoot, and they all changed over to believers. They said that their lives were changed completely.

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219 Comments

Filed under Americas, Animals, Anthropology, Apes, Bigfoot, California, Canada, Genetics, Government, Mammals, North America, Physical, Regional, Science, South, USA, West, Wild

219 responses to “New Erickson Project News: Bigfoot DNA Project Using Two Dead Bigfoot Bodies for Samples

  1. Chullo

    He is considered to be at the top of his field, which I will not reveal here.
    Needlepoint?

    Apparently he was telling the hunter to back up so the Bigfoot could move through, since the Bigfoot was stuck on the road. … Next thing he knew, he heard loud barking sounds coming from the side of the road. … 50,000 YBP, there were … Homo heidelbergensis … bad smell to ward off enemies, used infrasound or an intense EMF field to paralyze and disorient enemies
    Why did you interview this poor mentally ill man? It’s not fair to make fun of other people’s sicknesses.

    • This stuff will all be proven quite well very soon now, so I have nothing to worry about. The skeptics will be shown wrong, and will have egg all over their faces.

      • Chullo

        Yeah, next year. Always next year. You show ‘em.

        So I take it you believe Bigfoot uses ‘infrasound or an intense EMF field to paralyze and disorient enemies’?

        • Crypto Zoologist

          I believe that they do as a defense against possible attacks! It makes perfect sense and has been documented numerous times!!

  2. logan

    Do u have any photos of the bigfoot if so can u post them on the page?

  3. pat

    This is why nobody believes in a ‘Bigfoot’ — this story discredits your site and every other sighting account on it! Shot several Bigfoots and is worried about showing the bodies — give me a break — what a bunch of lies! It would be the find of the century!!! Anybody of serious consideration will read this and find you are a lying fool!

    • Ok, you’re banned.

      HAND now.

    • Crypto Zoologist

      Well Pat, if you can prove that these are lies, then do it! If not then keep your opinion to yourself! There is no need to get nasty and unprofessional!!

    • George

      I am so with Pat on this one. Bigfoot decorating garbage dumps ?, knock out swamp gas ? and my favourite of course would be. Bigfoot waving down the poacher that shot it. Please dont bring Dr. Meldrum an actual scientist into this delusion. By the way this isn’t the first time Moneymaker was going to reveal a dead bogfoot to the world. All of this has the same credibility as a used car saleman.

  4. Cam Villa

    I have been following this story for a few years. So much hype, but the truth will be told. I think the biggest change with be human beings outlook on on our origins.

    • mollymae

      yes, i think this will be proof we did not evolve from apes.(if we did then why are apes not still evolving?)

      • Greg

        What, you think evolution has stopped at us? I assure you it hasn’t. I don’t think you realize the time periods evolution works on here. We’re talking hundreds of thousands, millions, tens and hundreds of millions of years! The earth is 4.5 billion years old here. Dinosaurs were around something like 250 million years. The human evolutionary chain has been ongoing for around 2 million years and it as in no way stopped at us, it is ongoing and will remain ongoing for as long as the human spieces is walking the earth.

        • Mike

          Nice opinion Greg, however it is not factual. But we will take your assurance that “evolution hasn’t stopped at us”. Do you evolutionists have any idea what one billion years is? It is easy to throw out the numbers that you did, but there is no way of confirming any of them.

  5. How soon is soon??? Days??? Weeks??? Months???

  6. anonymous

    Well, if this account is true, it adds clarity to the infighting that has been occurring between the BFRO and Erickson. I remember when the Kentucky pancake footage was initially announced on BFRO, but by the time I had learned about it the footage had been removed from public viewing and was only available to the BFRO “insiders.” When people inquired suddenly it was a legal dispute about ownership between the property owner (which from this article discloses is Erickson) and Moneymaker who shot the pancake thermal. Finally news of the Erickson project broke, at the time it was he was collecting the best footage (like the pancake video he purchased) and other evidence for his project…but, over at the BFRO Erickson and everyone involved with him where labeled flakes and frauds. The last extensive info I read about the project included interviews with the specialist conducting the DNA testing (think I found that on this site) and her stating that she had tissue samples. Fast forward, BFRO now has a six part show on animal planet AND suddenly Moneymaker appears in the trailer for the forth coming Erickson project…something that wasn’t the case earlier, but it seems the “concern” about not being recognized as a legitimate investigator has decreased with a show to point to as validation should the Erickson project at the end of the day be the conclusive proof everyone is looking for.

    • Everything is starting to make sense, eh?

      • anonymous

        Well, it makes sense regarding “why” there was no much vitriol surrounding any discussion about the Erickson project and the people involved. That’s why in my opinion this story has some merit even if it’s not a completely truthful account (not saying it is or is not) he definitely knows the players in this saga. Oh and a correction on the site I may have read and listened to detailed info on the Erickson project is actually http://www.bigfootencounters.com. Who by the way are providing the link to your story and page.

    • Anonymous...for now

      The BFRO and “infighting” are synonymous. They are their own worst enemy. Through the years, they have burned more bridges than Napoleon. I can say this as once (ashamedly) a member/”curator” of the BFRO in the mid 1990s. Moneymaker (real name: Matthew Edwards) has aptly named himself and shows his true colors in doing so. Matt will stoop to any level to make a buck…including hoaxing. I have annecdotal evidence that he has paid “guides” to hoax well-intentioned guests of his Bigfoot Safaris to the tune of $500 a head. If he is involved, in any way, ["Moneymaker and the BFRO were in on this too..."], I am skeptical. Your description of him being “furious that they missed out on the body. Matt was hopping mad. He missed the boat. It was a mad rush for those bodies!” fits him to a “T” and gives me pause to reconsider the story’s validity. Of concern is how he has rangled himself on board with the project ["...Moneymaker appears in the trailer for the forth coming Erickson project..."] tells me that he is a “Moneyspender” as well. Always follow the money…especially with Matt. If he thinks he can buy his way into a discovery, I assure you he expects dividends to well exceed the expense. Unfortunately, Erickson looses credibiity in the process.

    • Crypto Zoologist

      Where do I find this Kentucky Pancake footage?

  7. Great job on this Robert. It’s a Bombshell!

  8. I’ve been watching intently animal planets “Finding Bigfoot” Moneymaker tends to imply when interviewed that the show will culminate into a final episode showing something great, I have experienced my little sighting, mine pales in comparison to most sightings, but mine was real and I know what I saw, so whatever comes from Moneymaker, to me is interesting but old hat, everytime I watch, I have seen all this before, the photos, video, vocals, this is the same old same old, maybe one day something new will really come out and suprise the world, you think?

  9. Thomas Steenburg

    Another encredible claim to encredible evidence but once again its, Take my word for it. All I can say is. Show the bodies or shut up. Far to much of this stuff these days.

    Thomas Steenburg

  10. Alan

    Lonestrom…
    I have read this article a couple of times and I’m believing MOST of it.The BIG problem I have with it is the idea that people are shooting Sasquatches all the time.No matter if there is a coverup or not SOMEBODY ( redneck??)would haul one in to town on the hood of his truck and show all his buddies at the bar.I can beleve that there have been a FEW shoot and a FEW reports of people shooting AT them.No matter how HUMAN they look any GOOD Lawyer could get you off of a murder charge !!,and you would be the most famous guy around.So despite that part of the story I think you did a good job on it and I for one KNOW they are real and I have ALOT of friends that I will visit IN PERSON to see there faces when the national news reports on the REAL SASQUATCH !!!.

  11. Marcoba

    So as big as mouth as Moneymaker has he has never mentioned dead BF’s before. I thought he would be right on top of that. You said he missed the boat. I cant imagine as big as mouth and as arrogant as he is, he would keep still about this. As far as the Erickson project goes I will believe their evidence when I see it. I wonder what Dr. Meldrum would say about all of this. I think someone is being very dishonest. If it is true this guy killed a big male bigfoot and its sibling is very very disgusting to me. These animals should remain as they are now and left the hell alone!! I have beleived in the big guy since I was little and hold that kind of respect for them. End of story. I guess time will tell!!

    • Crypto Zoologist

      Did you actually think that Matt moneymaker was gonna tell you everything???? He has alot of interest in this and is not going to mess it up! I agree with you as far as respecting them. I have been a believer since I was able to read and have continued researching bigfoot for over 30 years now. They(when the time is right) should be proven to exist which I personally believe that bigfoot does exist. When this takes place, bigfoot should be place on the endangered species list and make it illegal to hunt or kill them anywhere in the United states!

  12. Pingback: Cryptomundo » Erickson Project News: Bigfoot DNA Project Using Two Dead Bigfoot Bodies for Samples

  13. Hi; Richard Stubstad here again …

    Well, since I’m mentioned in this interview as “someone on the right track”, I may as well mention now that this particular (purported) sasquatch encounter (the killing of two of them) was told to me, pretty much verbatim, last late November or early December—in part by Dr. Ketchum herself.

    However, since the story was hearsay, I haven’t said a word about it—until now. All I can verify is that I heard the same story, down to the minutest details except the part about the connections to the Erickson project. At the time, I did talk to Adrian Erickson about this story, and we both agreed we didn’t want to see such a noble creature killed, for any reason, in no small part because (if it even exists) it is definitely a rarity and barely exist “on the brink” as a remnant population of some kind of hominid. As the interviewee points out, we (Homo sapiens sapiens) have likely killed off all other hominids that still survived until recently (meaning within the last 50,000 years or so)—quite possibly except THIS one, to which I will now tentatively assign the scientific name: “Homo sapiens sesqueqiensis”. In fact, this is one of the many things that Dr. Melba Ketchum and I agreed on before I was “summarily ejected” from the DNA project, even though I had contributed a great deal to the preliminary DNA analysis—on the mitochondrial side only, and only through the first three complete mito sequences.

    My guess (not knowledge), in retrospect, is now that it wasn’t the fact that neither she nor I would sign a new NDA (our original NDA had expired), but rather this very story that I didn’t agree with her whatsoever on, because I’m interested in protecting—not killing—ANY of these creatures, for any reason. The facts she wouldn’t sign the same NDA we had the first time around (with changed dates) and I wouldn’t sign her lopsided and egocentric NDA (prepared by one of her lawyers, obviously) likely wasn’t the reason at all. It was these purported sasquatch bodies—supposedly of a female mother and a juvenile offspring. I also heard (but also cannot verify) that there was a second juvenile who is still alive, if he/she survived the rough winter up there in the Sierras this year.

    Anyway, to make a long story a bit shorter, Dr. Ketchum called me at the time and explained she had a sasquatch “sample” in her possession— in fact right in front of her as she was talking on the phone, and she proceeded to describe it to me. I felt that the description she was giving could well have been an “extraction” from (say) the thigh of an adult bigfoot; but still I was shocked. In fact, I didn’t WANT to believe it, due to my ethical and moral attitudes towards unnecessary killing—ESPECIALLY of a creature both Dr. K and I already believed was at least partly human (on the mitochondrial side). In my mind, that’s murder.

    She went on to ask me if I’d hide this “sample” somewhere else, so if the police came to her lab she could truthfully state she didn’t have it; only some extracted DNA. I was further shocked, and I said I’d call her back. I discussed the issue with some good friends and family, and then decided an hour or so later: This probably wasn’t true, because the sample COULD be from a human cadaver who happened to be hairy; or it could be a hoax. It also (at least in my mind) didn’t fit with the sasquai’s MO; why in the world would they put themselves in harm’s way, knowing full well about our (human) weapons, guns, etc., and what these guns & weapons, etc. can do to ANYBODY or ANYTHING alive on either two or four legs?

    So I called Dr. K back and said, “firstly I don’t believe it, and secondly even if it is true, I won’t do it.” I didn’t want ANYTHING to do with a killing. I went on to accuse her of being “just another Tom Biscardi” who she said had already told her that he intended to kill one of these creatures, and she agreed at the time this should be grounds for ejecting Biscardi from the DNA research project entirely. So he WAS ejected based on this purported statement she told me Biscardi made to her.

    Now, however, all of a sudden what she was doing was OK because she was doing it for “science” whilst Biscardi was doing it for publicity or “showboating”. I now find that statement to be highly hypocritical, and essentially since then I have heard little or nothing from Dr. K. So there you have it.

    As a follow-up, I just now called Biscardi & asked him what he told Dr. Ketchum at the time she told him that some previous DNA testing on one of his samples showed “a new hominid” and she had checked the sequencing and found out that it wasn’t a new hominid—but rather Homo sapiens—again on the mitochondrial side only? Biscardi claims he DIDN’T tell her that he “would therefore kill one”; but rather that he would ONLY kill one is self-defense.

    After everything that has transpired with Dr. K since, I no longer believe anyone—necessarily. Above all, I actually HOPE this story of the killing of two sasquai is, in reality, just another hoax. However, I now fear it is NOT a hoax.

    Please tell me I’m wrong, someone, not for a change but just one more time (at least for some of you)!

    Richard Stubstad

    • apehuman

      I should be blown away by all this.. . I am deeply saddened, but I guess not too surprised. If true, the players all seem to be behaving much as thier histories and stated goals would suggest.

      A very sorted mess the entire history and current doings in Sasquatch research..and I don’t think the real truth (especially the behind scenes events and really nasty doings of the h. sapiens involved) will ever come out regarding the “discovery’ of Sasquatch (ignoring of course Native American knowledge)…really.
      It hasn’t in 50 years wrt to Patterson/Gimlin (the never released footage, the impossible reported timeline) and the Forest Service/ Interior Dept ( a “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy – try reporting a sighting! ) and even Tom Slick (what is up with the Bio-med primate research thing in Texas still in his name? Where is his memorablia, why did he quit looking after Bluff Creek?), John Green to Loren Coleman…just grinding out sensational yellow press stories forgetting their sources (sorry Betty)… right through to the current groups…from Biscardi to well the BFRO (is it true matt Moneymaker is not a lawyer as so commonly believed?) and all those you mentioned…even Jeff Meldrum…re-writing his history with “Bigfoot – A difinitive guide” ….no mention of body casts there…or Gigantipicithus…or any known Sasquatch researchers….but His Monster propogand/images persist… why? Is hairyness that much of an affront to God and Civilized Man?

      The only hope I hold is this eventual proof will attract the Goodall Institute’s funding and perhaps even awaken a few particular responsible anthropologists and policy makers….and all of these kind will fall away in the background.

      There is nothing noble here…lets hope we can together rescue it from this point out and do away with future harm to these magnificent and mysterious, and by choice whithdrawn and hidden, peoples.

      Perhaps too strongly stated? I don’t think so, in fact I am restraining myself…and turning my condemnation inward, as a member of this human tribe.

      • Ape Human:

        Your entry has to be the most honest and heart-felt response to the diabolical goings-on I have ever read. It is indeed encouraging to see there are still some folks like YOU around.

        The most important point you make–doing no further harm to these noble creatures, assuming they exist–is so well taken I could almost cry. Still, the human race is so violent, so self-centered, and so arrogant as if we are the “top of the moral and ethical universe” by definition, it would indeed be a true shame if–again assuming they exist–the sasquai are also wiped out as the last remaining, non-“human” hominid that every existed on earth.

        I fear (but do not know) that several governments–especially including the U.S. and Canadian governments, know fully well what is going on, and essentially turn a blind eye to the purported remnant population of the sasquai, all in the interests of their financial support towards re-election: Industry; hunting; tourism; farming; clear-cutting; whatever. Neither our governments nor we humans truly act in the best interests of our own race, let alone the remnant survivors of our virtually total destruction of everything around us that isn’t “useful” according to some creed or religious belief.

        For the religious and spiritually minded among us: God save us all. We’ll need all the help we can get.

        Richard Stubstad

      • citizentruth

        I couldn’t have said it better myself.

  14. Tom Naff

    I have never had an encounter. Never smelled one, heard one, or had one throw rocks in my general direction. BUT, I do not need a body as proof of a new species. This animal is real, and the evidence is overwhelming even without DNA evidence, and without a body.

  15. Alan..

    I do not want see one killed just to prove there around. I have been following any and all reports I can find for 40+ years and just now I read that people are killing them all the time !!!,Have I just been reading the wrong stuff?? does anybody else find this a little to far out there to beleive??.

    • Jeff

      Sure this story is real; I believe it. Hunters throughout Canada, including all the timber companies, must be killing bigfoots all the time, makes sense; why not? They never take photos or carry off a dead body, (or piece of) because…hell, it’s not worth the trouble. Oh and they never speak of it because they are very good with keeping secrets up in Canada.

      Now forget all the people who have been trying to get video, photos or any other evidence in general, for decades, they’re just doing it wrong. Just find yourself a seasoned Canadian hunter (or become a logger, they seem to have the inside track on this too), hang with him for a week or two, and I’m sure you can get yourself the footage (or better yet a dead body!) that has been eluding EVERYONE for the past 50 years.

      • P-G film was shot 43 years ago.

        I’m not worried at all about you skeptics. The truth will come out very soon, and then it’s all you skeptics who will have egg all over your faces, not us.

        • Jeff

          Oh I fully believe in Bigfoot, and have been following the phenomenon for a good 25 years now, so no egg will be on my face. I just don’t believe the truth will be out anytime soon, especially if you believe this “truth” will present itself through what the “bear hunter” proposes will happen (or to a greater extent what Adrian Erickson’s documentary is suppose to bring to the table). This documentary has been in the making way too long. If and when solid proof is available, it will be front line news before anyone knows what hit em’. But with that said, I hope I’m wrong and the documentary blows my socks off.

          And I must thank you for pointing out my dispicable lie in stating that it’s been 50 years; I wouldn’t want anyone to get the approximate year mixed up with the more important facts presented by Tom Biscardi, err..I mean the “bear hunter”.

      • Bear Hunter is not Biscardi.

        Glad to see that you are a believer.

      • citizentruth

        Jeff,I’m not sure where you get your information on Canadians.I’m Canadian and I know hunters.Not one has ever so much as uttered ‘Bigfoot’.I grew up on the west coast and I’ve talked to truckers.Not one has mentioned ‘Sasquatch’.
        I also deliver pipe,valves,flanges etc. to the oil/gas sector in some remote places in Alberta and nobody has ever mentioned the Big Guy,nobody.
        If any company has a vested interest in securing remote sights for their operations it would be the oil & gas industry.
        They’re a diverse group of people and prone to sharing stories with strangers and not one person has mentioned even seeing a Sasquatch.
        Keeping secrets?We’re no different than anyone else.
        CT

  16. Bones

    Id poitely point out, that if you show me a Thousand state or provincial bear tags, with mr mysteries name on them.. Ill believe his story. Im a hunter and and a outdoorsman, But thats just wrong, and pretty hard to believe. That would require the killing of dozens or more of bruins each season by one individual in his lifetime.
    Anybody with a that kind of obsession, (real or imagined) needs to be assesed imediatley by a mental health professional.
    I keep waiting for one of you BF folks to drag an actual fact out into the light. Lets hope someone can accomplish that without having to first profit the murder of an innocent bystander. Keep lookin and Good luck.

  17. It seems that Mr. Lindsay took some extreme liberties in the re-telling of the “Bear Hunter’s” story.
    Derek Randles, founder of the Olympic Project, offers clarifying information regarding this explosive issue.

    OK, it’s time to put a few things to rest. I just spoke to the “bear hunter”, who is also my friend. He is beside himself because of all the BS being spread. He’s asked me to clarify a few things here on this forum. First of all, he is not a poacher. I repeat, not a poacher. Second, it was bear season and he was hunting in a legal area with a bear tag. Please don’t ask me these things again. That’s the truth. Third, he has not killed 1000 bears. He’s killed 3 in his lifetime. Yes 3, not 1000. It’s also very important to note, he never gave Sasquatch a second thought. He was a complete skeptic. Because of his unfamiliarity with the Bigfoot subject he had no idea of what he was looking at through his riffle site. He assumed that it was a very strange looking bear that was standing on it’s hind legs. In his mind that’s all it could have been, a bear. When the bullet hit its mark, it started to become apparent that it wasn’t a bear. It did not drop right there, it ran off. They thought they heard it crash in the brush but did not see it go down. Things started getting very weird at this point. Two smaller creatures appeared from the brush, sometimes on two feet, and sometimes on all fours. In his description they looked like a cross between an ape and a bear. They got very close to him and at one point one positioned itself above him on a outcrop. He shot it out of fear of being attacked. Probably the same thing I would have done in the given circumstance. When I’m in the wilderness I always pack a gun to protect my self from wild, sometimes unpredictable animals. There are a few times I thanked God I had it. This was starting to feel like a nightmare to him and he quickly left trying to wrap his mind around what had just happened.

    It’s very important to note that he doesn’t feel good about this incident. As a matter of fact he felt terrible. This was a case of miss-identification plane and simple.

    At a later date a search was carried out at the site and a piece of flesh was recovered. NOT A BODY, only a small piece of flesh witch was later cut in two pieces, hence the cut line. I’ll say it one more time, no body’s were found or recovered.

    It’s very unfortunate that this happened, but hopefully some good will come out of it. I’m probably going to have a whole bunch of people mad at me for talking about this, but my first obligation is to the bear hunter. He’s my friend and I gave him my word that I’m there for him. He wanted me to convey this message, so take it or leave it, it’s the truth.DR

    • I didn’t take any liberties, extreme or otherwise, in the retelling of the story from subject of the interview, who was NOT the same person as the guy who shot the BF. Once again, the interview is NOT with the shooter, it is with someone else who knew the shooter and talked to him.

      BTW, you’re close to getting banned.

  18. Gary B

    Robert, how did you become so completely gullible? You are being taken for a ride by these silly hoaxers and nut jobs.

  19. go ahead and ban me…I’ve never heard of you before and I am sure after this you will never be heard from again.

    • Happy to ban you, ma’am. Tip of the hat, dear lady!

      • Dude,
        Do you ban everybody who has a different opinion or opposing information?
        I was going to ask you if I could reprint this interview on my site but you’re likely to hunt me down and sue me for spelling your name wrong or something.
        You’re ban happy!

        • Hello there my friend. Please read the Comments Policy. If you notice, the 2 posters who were banned were very hostile towards me. That’s a violation of the Comments Policy. One must be civil, as you are.

          Sure you can repost my interview, with a link back here. I would be more than happy to accommodate you, and I’ve been to your site before. Please feel free to stop ban in any time you wish. There’s nothing to be afraid of here as long as you are polite, as you seem to be. Have a good day now.

  20. k.b.

    I’ve been reading these reply’s this morning and its becoming clear to me what’s going on here! Anytime someone tries to clarify a fact or two, or go against what you think…you ban them! Makes ya look like ya got something to hide here, or you’re just so into yourself looking good that you don’t want anyone to call you on any mistakes you may have made.
    Yeah…I know….I’m banned! LOL

  21. ImaBeliever

    What we need is a Jane Goodall to live among them, learn about them and from them, document it, get whatever samples s/he could get without harming the creature, eventually get some video of the habituated BFs, and tell the world to leave them alone. No killing.

    • Great idea!

      Richard Stubstad

      • Leave alone as in having full mountain ranges closed for any and all human activity.
        That would be wrong for a million different reasons, and 99% of them valid.
        This is our land, and we live in it, play in it and share it with all wildlife.
        But to already jump in and say, “Leave them alone…” is pretty short sighted.
        The word for the day should be “Knowledge.”
        The more “Tabboo” you make this, the worse off these “Beings” are going to be. They have been proven to not be hostile towards humans. They pester and pull jokes on humans, occassionally stealing from us, but hardly ever hostile.
        I would hate to have a huge chunk of my backyard sealed off by Big Brother because a bunch of tree huggers, and now bigfoot huggers, were pushing to block off entire areas just because bigfoot lived in them.
        Please don’t tell me that you people are already thinking of crying about this.
        Tree huggers have already ruined enough as it stands today.

  22. Why can’t we all just get along….LOL. It seems things are starting to heat up in the bigfoot community and we are ALL getting alittle anxious…..Some info is better than no info…but the wrong info is and will make us ” believers” look like a bunch of wack jobs. I just hope that the Erickson Project is all that it is cracked up to be. I can’t remember a time that I was so excited hoping that the information would come and add clarity and sanity to this mystery of all mysteries. On the flip side…I kinda hope that it will NEVER be proven just as I do hope that the Cubs NEVER win a World Series. I Hope they NEVER kill one…I hope scienctist never get ahold of one and keep it captive so they can study it. If found people will be going nuts to try to find more….capture them….who knows what. So maybe …just maybe….they might be better left alone and to live FREE in the wild free of our interference…..which problaby would lead to their demise. I do enjoy the dialoge…and hope it contiues without anyones feathers getting ruffled….WE are ALL ON THE SAME TEAM. Thank You ALL for the intresting reading.

  23. Pingback: Claim: Erickson Project Using DNA From Two Dead Bigfoot Bodies » WeNewsIt

  24. Tboy

    LMFAO @ the whole story

  25. gman

    When trying to hide the identity of a source, it’s best not to use direct quotes from articles written on them. A few google searches and its easy to tell that Ken Walker gave you some incredible info.

  26. Woody

    I`m sure there is alot more killing of BF by timber companies than we think.Maybe there are hit squads out there at night lookin for them.Millions of dollars at stake.

  27. bubba hotep

    Jeez, you desparate morons, there is no possible way any of this is true, it’s all total BS, if you can’t tell that’s the case, then you don’t know anything about those there critters… jeez, how many morons will fall for this kind of story again and again? Download some porn instead.

  28. John

    Seems similar to the rumors heard recently of what a couple of bigfoot hunters may have done at Bluff Creek. Patty may have also lost a child to a bullet before she walked away into the woods.

  29. Hi Everyone,

    Robert you have been duped a little or you are in on it with them, both your articles seem to be loaded with incorrect facts? Maybe you are believing the wrong people… Sharon puts it out there best, and I guess what you have to do is just do the research. I will explain how you are wrong and how I know what I will be saying on my Facebook Page, My Forum, and My Examiner Column, and any other outlet that wants to run with it… No since giving you any more reader ship my friend, I can tell you don’t appreciate it.

    Best wishes to you and your readers, Google Alex Hearn or AZCRO for the real answers, at least as far as what I know and have been allowed to comment on…

    That’s right!

    I signed one of those NDAs with Dr Ketchum too, but she has finally had enough of the lies and wants at least some of the truth to come out. What you are doing here by publishing these false truths could hurt allot of researchers and people that have invested in this study, both with their time and hard earned dollars. It’s time for you and Richard to be proven wrong, and maybe taking out to the hen house for a little verbal beating. Erickson well I know very little about him, but if Sharon says what he released through you is phony I certainly believe her, and know many others that also do…

    Good Work Sharon, I guess you do real research… The pen is a powerful tool, don’t use it the wrong way and you will go far.

    Guys Google Alex Hearn, watch for my Facebook and Blog updates on my AZCRO FORUM and MY EXAMINER COLUMN. I will explain why and how they are wrong, but first I will explain how I know what I am saying and how I got involved.

    Best to you Robert, and best to your readers,
    Alex Hearn

    • Ok Alex, you’re banned. Seeya.

    • Alex:

      Sorry to see you were “booted off” after only a single entry. While I will have a look at your website, I would still like to comment to your entry above:

      Since I, and other folks you know quite well, had NDA’s at one point or another, in part concurrently, with Dr. Ketchum, and now as you state you have one, I can tell you from hard-earned experience: Consider the source of your so-called “honest” information. A year ago today, I would have believed the information, lock, stock and barrel. Now, I know I was just used to further the interests of the few … therefore I reported what I assisted with in the initial phases of the DNA work–no more, no less.

      I realize you don’t know me well, and of course I don’t know you all that well, but if I remember correctly we appeared on a few of the same Marco Bill “Blog Talk Radio” shows now and then, without directly speaking to one another.

      From these occasions, I can tell you are a serious man, as I am; however we have to remember that in life, we should believe half of what we see and none of what we hear.

      What I reported was what I actually DID. I left out all the hearsay information, including the purported Sierra “kills”–which by the way I still hope ARE a hoax.

      Good luck to you, Sir, and sorry to see you go from this discussion group. I think we could have come to some kind of mutual understanding, if not always the truth of the matter, right here. I can also assure you that Mr. Lindsay is doing his best, and that he only “knows” what folks like you and me tell him. He is being a typical journalist during these interviews, and he is honestly expressing the views and opinions of the interviewees. He even gave me a chance to redact my own interview, because–as usual–he misquoted me on a few minor details.

      You can’t possibly know this, sir, but I really am telling the truth.

      Richard Stubstad

  30. Pingback: Bear Hunter Interview Part 2: More Outrageous Bigfoot Allegations and Revelations | Robert Lindsay

  31. Here is the true story from
    I am passing this information on at the request of a 3rd party.
    Kind regards
    Allan Rodriguez

    Derek Randles, of the Olympic Project.

    OK, it’s time to put a few things to rest. I just spoke to the “bear hunter”, who is also my friend. He is beside himself because of all the BS being spread. He’s asked me to clarify a few things here on this forum. First of all, he is not a poacher. I repeat, not a poacher. Second, it was bear season and he was hunting in a legal area with a bear tag. Please don’t ask me these things again. That’s the truth. Third, he has not killed 1000 bears. He’s killed 3 in his lifetime. Yes 3, not 1000. It’s also very important to note, he never gave Sasquatch a second thought. He was a complete skeptic. Because of his unfamiliarity with the Bigfoot subject he had no idea of what he was looking at through his riffle site. He assumed that it was a very strange looking bear that was standing on it’s hind legs. In his mind that’s all it could have been, a bear. When the bullet hit its mark, it started to become apparent that it wasn’t a bear. It did not drop right there, it ran off. They thought they heard it crash in the brush but did not see it go down. Things started getting very weird at this point. Two smaller creatures appeared from the brush, sometimes on two feet, and sometimes on all fours. In his description they looked like a cross between an ape and a bear. They got very close to him and at one point one positioned itself above him on a outcrop. He shot it out of fear of being attacked. Probably the same thing I would have done in the given circumstance. When I’m in the wilderness I always pack a gun to protect my self from wild, sometimes unpredictable animals. There are a few times I thanked God I had it. This was starting to feel like a nightmare to him and he quickly left trying to wrap his mind around what had just happened.

    It’s very important to note that he doesn’t feel good about this incident. As a matter of fact he felt terrible. This was a case of miss-identification plain and simple.

    At a later date a search was carried out at the site and a piece of flesh was recovered. NOT A BODY, only a small piece of flesh which was later cut in two pieces, hence the cut line. I’ll say it one more time, no body’s were found or recovered.

    It’s very unfortunate that this happened, but hopefully some good will come out of it. I’m probably going to have a whole bunch of people mad at me for talking about this, but my first obligation is to the bear hunter. He’s my friend and I gave him my word that I’m there for him. He wanted me to convey this message, so take it or leave it, it’s the truth.

    • Yes I am very familiar with that story, but I don’t really believe it. I’m quite certain that the OP never went back to that site, and they surely did not go back to that site two weeks later and find a single strip of flesh from one BF left from the carnage. OP submitted tissue from both of the BF’s. That means that both BF’s were killed. They never went back there, so the shooter either hauled the BF’s out at the time, or cut off some pieces of them, one or the other.

      I don’t think he thought the adult BF was a bear.

      I don’t agree that he shot the juvenile because it was threatening him.

      I don’t blame Randle for putting this story out there. I would do the same if I were him. Smart guy.

      • I can’t say what is, or isn’t the truth Robert I am not directly involved in it, but I am interested. I have nothing invested here, I am just trying to help facilitate some communication here between parties (yourself included obviously) who I think could maybe get a more complete picture by sharing information. Nothing more and nothing less. I hope in some way, shape of form that this was helpful.

        Kind regards,
        Allan Rodriguez

        • Thx Allan! I appreciated your efforts. Obviously this situation is ongoing and frankly at the end of the day, there are only a few people who know what really happened. I don’t know what really happened with those BF’s. I just have an opinion, that’s all.

  32. Mr. Lindsey,

    I see the information I passed along to you has already been passed along y Sharon Lee as well, so I apologize for the unnecessary traffic. I am strictly a 3rd party here just trying to pass information along, I am not trying to do any finger pointing in any shape or fashion, so please don’t take it that way. I just thought it was relevant information you would want to know. Anyway, I enjoy reading you blog, keep up the great work.

    Kind regards,
    Allan Rodriguez

    • Hi Allan! I checked out your site in the last couple of days. I like it. You’re doing excellent work and it looks like you have invested in a lot of good equipment. You also have an excellent attitude towards research.

  33. Thank you for the kind words Robert. I am trying. You have been doing this far longer than I, so, your opinion is meaningful & I appreciate the feedback. I have a long way to go, but, I am trying. There is no manual for what we do, LOL. If there is ever anything I can do to help, please don’t hesitate to ask. Have a great day.

    Kind regards,
    Allan

  34. Alan..

    BAN,BAN,BAN..The word BIGFOOT and BANNED seemed to go hand in hand !!.Over at the OTHER BF forum they do the same thing!! why is this??.I’m not trying to be a smart ass or anything I just want to know why this happens??.I go to ALOT of forums,( not BF ones) and I have NEVER seen anybody banned,why does this subject bring up such problems when people have DIFFERENT views??.Oh ya ban me if you want to BUT I’m not trying to cause problems just pointing this out.

    • I am not happy at the mad banning on BF forums either. It’s ridiculous. I’m banned myself from the BFRO and may be getting banned from some other places soon too. Too many rules, too much PC.

      Just read the Comments Rules. The two commenters violated the comments rules. They were very hostile and impolite. You’re not allowed to address me like that. You can disagree all you wish. Look at Mike Nichols below. All he does is disagree on here, and I’ll never ban the guy.

      Just be pleasant, as you are now, and you won’t get banned. Ok, my friend?

  35. Its the same story – I have heard it a hundred times from various sources. It never pans out when you follow the leads. People make these same claims over and over with no names, no details with story running against logic. If a bigfoot was shot and the body found it would be over. The body would be photographed, examined, turned over to a curator of a natural history museum or other credentialed scientist and both would be immediately famous. But of course, it never happens. Why? Figure it out.

  36. Non-disclosure agreements make it illegal to name names. When everything is published and released, you’ll have all the names u need.

  37. Pingback: Jerking us around with Bigfoot “evidence” | Skeptoid

  38. The story is baloney. It will not be believed by scientists worth their salt and if there is human DNA as has been suggested with no body to offer as proof, it further defies logic and simply indicates hoax.

    And by the way, who are you?

    • Mike:

      I sure hope you are right, man! I don’t even WANT to believe it.
      After speaking with Dr. Ketchum, though, the very day she received a package with the first “chunk of meat”, I now FEAR the story–or some part of it–may well be true. I also fear that she has sequenced both the mito and nuclear DNA, and that it probably matches the others I know a bit about–but she never told me that; it’s just a guess.

      This was just before Dr. Ketchum and I had a “falling out”–to put it mildly.

      One part of the KILLING OF TWO SASQUAI story that DOES need clarification, though:

      I spoke with Adrian Erickson (today) and the Erickson Project has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Olympic project OR the purported killing of any sasquai. Even though this chain of entries starts out called the “New Erickson Project News: Bigfoot DNA Project Using Two Dead Bigfoot Bodies for Samples”, I at least can assure EVERYONE on this sequence of entries that the Erickson Project is not connected whatsoever–except that Adrian has heard the same story as well.

      Unless Adrian is lying to me–which I sincerely doubt.

      Ask the leader of the Olympic Project about that detail, if you’d like–his name is “Derek”.

      Richard Stubstad

      • I spoke with Adrian Erickson (today) and the Erickson Project has absolutely NOTHING to do with the Olympic project OR the purported killing of any sasquai.

        This is not really true though is it now. The EP is related to the OP. The OP is a submitter of samples to the EP, hence the OP is peripherally involved in the DNA aspect of the EP, at least as a submitter.

        Of course EP had nothing to do with killing 2 BF’s.

    • That’s a pretty weak argument Mike. I will tell you this much, Dr. Ketchum’s study is a double-blind study. The results will not be blindly dismissed as a hoax. Show me exactly where you saw or read that there was Human DNA found please. Very close to human & completely human are two different things. You may want to get your facts straight.

      • Don’t know who you are, but as far as getting facts straight, I have been reading Richard Stubstad’s comments on another thread on this site where he talks about the human DNA. You might want to read my other comments here and on the other thread where I suggest this is a cart before the horse, so it defies logic. If it defies logic, it tells me one or two things – somebody or multiple people are lying or they have been hoaxed.

        The burden is on those suggesting we can’t obtain compelling photographs of these alleged creatures, but we can frequently see them, get them to stand still to scope them, shoot them and then collect a sample for DNA analysis. You tell me that is not absurd? I spent 5 years doing intensive investigations finding incredibly detailed hoaxing without a single piece of evidence standing up to the scrutiny of science.

        My hypothesis is there is a reason – they don’t exist. I cannot prove that, but I can keep disproving the alternative which is what consistently occurs. Now are you prepared to defend your position my argument is weak?

    • Just for the record Mike. I do believe the basics of this story.

      I agree that two BF’s were shot dead in the Plumas in mid November 2010. I agree that parts of these two bodies were submitted to the Erickson Project for DNA by the Olympic Project.

      This is as clear as air to me.

  39. Here is a partial post quoted from the BFF (http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/6475-blockbuster-erickson-project-news/page__st__60) by a guy calling himself Derekfoot who claims to be involved with the “Olympic Project” but can’t say anything because of an NDA yet seems to have no problem blabbing his mouth off over at that forum:

    “As I also stated in a previous thread, if we were in possession of a body it would be under study at a university right now and the freaking planet would know about it! One of the reasons Noll and I had a falling out over the Skookum cast was because I wanted everybody to be able to view it for interpretation. I don’t believe in building hype and sitting on things. I have a lot of respect for Noll but at the time I didn’t agree with him on that aspect. In this case it’s different. My hands are tied. We have multiple fascinating samples from a wide range of areas but we won’t say anything about results until the science is done. Otherwise we wouldn’t be doing justice to the subject. Once again, is that so hard to understand? When the info does come out it needs to be accurate!”

    Multiple fascinating samples from a wide range of areas, yet Moneymaker himself said on the Washington episode of Finding Bigfoot aired last Sunday that the most compelling photograph to date is from Star Mountain. The most compelling photograph to date turns out to be a guy with a hood and backpack??? And this Derekfoot wants to bring up Skookum (elk imprint) to gain credibility?

    It is simply not logical to suggest there is abundant photographic evidence of these alleged creatures if Moneymaker offers the Star Mountain photo as the pinnacle of a bigfoot portrait. And if DNA is being offered as the top tier of evidenciary proof (which is clearly easily contaminated by human manipulation regardless of the source), it is simply all the more compelling to seriously consider that the creature (as has been generally described as bipedal with ape-like characteristics) is elusive for good reason – it…does…..not….exist. Oh, a wildman or a feral human may exist, but there is just no good evidence including or excluding PGF of the other.

    Moneymaker has put his money where his mouth is and demonstrated it is full of hot air. Wonder what Derekfoot would offer as the most compelling photographic evidence to date?

    • First off Mike, if you look at everything I have posted here, as well as own my own blog & message board, I have not made any claims that anyone is in possession of a sasquatch body. That claim was brought to light by Mr. Lindsay’s interview. My sources dispute the claim of a body being recovered, stating it was only a piece of flesh that was recovered from the site where the Sasquatches were shot. (And I am not trying to say who is right & who is wrong here – just pointing out the differences between Mr. Lindasay’s source & my own) That piece of flesh was cut into at least 2 pieces that am aware of. The Bigfoot Forums are a fountain of misinformation & have been for a long time and the new ownership of that forum has not changed anything. There are more credible sources of information out there Mike. If you really want to get to the truth and be objective & rational, you will have to go out and find where these sources of information are, they are not always right under your nose. The source of information you keep referring back to is being, lets just say, less than forthcoming. You seem like a bright gentleman, you can find the truth if you really want to pursue it.

      Kind regards,
      Allan

      • Read my other posts Allan. And by the way, I blew the lid off the AW book – “Enoch” when the one post I put on the BFF caused the fellow I suspected of being behind the story to come on the forum and confess the whole episode a few posts later. I know the players in this game, Allan. My hypothesis stands – there are some very industrious hoaxers and the scientists involved have not taken adequate measures to rule them out of the equation.

        • I am trying Mike, you have so many other posts/threads going on, they are hard to keep up with quite honestly. All I can tell you for now, as far as the human DNA I believe you said Richard S. mentioned in another post or thread, is that the DNA that was tested did not comeback as purely human, very close to human but there were other markers that showed up – which I won’t discuss here and now. Please don’t misunderstand me either, I am FAR from a DNA expert and I am not trying to come across as one, so, I apologize if I am.

          For now Mike, you are right, it is all hearsay, but, I truly belive that will change before the years end & if what I am told has merit, it should be sooner than that.

          Essentially we are all here sharing what we have been told by OTHER people, myself included. What is slightly different on my end is the people that I have spoke to are people I know, have met and have personally spent time with, so, I tend to give them a little more credibility than I normally would – as opposed to reading someone’s thread on a messageboard but I have never met the person and don’t know much (if anything) about them.

          It’s been a pleasure debating with you Mike, I am sure we will talk more in the near future.

          Kind regards,
          Allan

  40. Yeah but Derekfoot is not being straightforward. They were in possession of a body, a part of a body anyway. To be exact, two slices off the cadavers of two dead BF’s, one adult female and one juvenile, at least one of which was apparently thigh tissue. He had slices of a BF body, but he didn’t turn it in to any university either.

    I am not sure what Star Mountain photo is. It is very interesting and may well be a BF. It doesn’t really look human to me, but then it is hard to tell a BF from a human most times.

    Skookum Cast I am 100% certain is of a BF lying down and is not an elk wallow.

    I see that you are rejecting the DNA evidence before it has even been presented. This is the typical skeptic view. Every skeptic I have met so far has told me that they are going to reject that DNA evidence before they have even seen it. Nice empirical mind you got there guy.

    • Your logic is mystifying. No one yet including yourself has even attempted to answer my challenge. Here it is again for anyone to take a crack at:
      1. No extant species to date has ever been discovered by DNA evidence prior to it being conclusively documented by photographic evidence and/or capture.
      2. The most compelling photographic evidence to date (as stated by the head of the BFRO on Animal Planet’s “Finding Bigfoot” series which aired last Sunday) is the Star Mountain photograph.
      3. There is no video or photographic evidence that rules out a human mime (including PGF) due to size.
      4. There are many, many, examples of prints and photos being hoaxed, manipulated, etc. over the course of many years.
      5. Eyewitness testimony is consistently shown to be less than ideal for making clear determinations especially considering most eyewitnesses are not experts in wildlife biology or a related discipline.
      6. Most sightings are at night, with emotional (fear factor) overtones thus distorting or negatively influencing what was actually present.
      7. There is no documented evidence of any North American ape species.
      8. Obtaining, collecting, isolating and testing DNA has multiple pathways for and is highly susceptible to human contamination.

      Given these factual foundations, what rational scientific justification is there for skipping the relatively easy task – getting good photographic evidence that can rule out human in terms of size – and jumping ahead to a much harder task of seeing, sighting in, shooting, but not collecting, and then somehow tissue for DNA analysis?

      The process has never happened before, it is backwards and therefore not credible. It cannot hold up to scientific scrutiny in the absence of a rationale scientific explanation for this glaring impediment.

      Any takers?

      • Mike:

        Takers? Who else?–Richard here.

        For starters, I just talked to Robert Lindsay, and he is on the way to the beach (Pismo Beach in fact). He did seem a bit distracted, and I heard some pretty vocal female voices in the background; they didn’t sound like the “Sierra Sounds” either, so I presume they were Homo sapiens sapiens type hominids. We wouldn’t want to disturb this poor fellow while he is truly indisposed, now would we?

        Mike, for starters I highly respect your opinions here, and I certainly recognize you have a whole lot more experience in general than I do, having been with Moneymaker et.al. during one of your past lives. Furthermore, I understand that you may well be right in your rather categorical assumptions and beliefs on this subject matter. Still, with all due respect, I think (this doesn’t mean I KNOW) you are wrong. Here’s why (my answers in CAPS):

        1. No extant species to date has ever been discovered by DNA evidence prior to it being conclusively documented by photographic evidence and/or capture. DNA EVIDENCE AS A VIABLE APPROACH TO BOTH SPECIES AND HAPLOTYPE OR SUBSPECIES IDENTIFICATION IS A RELATIVELY NEW SCIENCE. SINCE THIS SCIENCE HAS ONLY BEEN READILY AVAILABLE FOR A DECADE OR SO, YOUR STATEMENT (TO ME) IS NOT SURPRISING. FURTHERMORE, NO ONE EVEN EXPECTS A NEW (EXTANT) HOMINID, SINCE MODERN SCIENCE BELIEVES (BUT DOES NOT KNOW) THAT HOMO SAPIENS SAPIENS ARE THE ONLY EXTANT SPECIES ON EARTH. LASTLY, AN EXTINCT HOMINID–THE DENISOVANS–WAS JUST LAST YEAR DISCOVERED, MAINLY THROUGH DNA TESTING AND TO AN EXTREMELY LIMITED EXTENT BY ITS TOOTH AND BONE STRUCTURE. ERGO, IF AN EXTANT HOMINID EXISTS APART FROM THE WIDE RANGE OF “HUMAN” HAPLOTYPES AND TRIBES ALREADY KNOWN AND SEQUENCED VIA THEIR DNA, ONE MORE MAY JUST BE DISCOVERED. MAYBE YOU ARE RIGHT–IT’S ALL A HOAX, BUT I DON’T THINK IT IS.
        2. The most compelling photographic evidence to date (as stated by the head of the BFRO on Animal Planet’s “Finding Bigfoot” series which aired last Sunday) is the Star Mountain photograph. I HAVE HAD THE UNUSUAL OPPORTUNITY TO SEE ABOUT 45 MINUTES OF THE ERICKSON FOOTAGE, IN A PRIVATE SHOWING, BY ONE OF ADRIAN’S TEAM. WHILE I AM NOT AN EXPERT, I WOULD SAY WITHOUT A DOUBT THAT IS THE BEST FOOTAGE I HAVE EVER SEEN. IT INCLUDED THE PANCAKE VIDEO, WHICH TO ME WAS TOO DARK AND TOTALLY INCONCLUSIVE–NOT VERY CONVINCING. THAT WAS THE WORST OF HIS FOOTAGE. COULD IT ALL HAVE BEEN HOAXED? OF COURSE; ESPECIALLY WITH TODAY’S TECHNOLOGY. IT COULD ALL BE A “MAN IN A SUIT” JUST LIKE YOU SAY THE P-G FILM IS (WITHOUT ADMITTING, LIKE I DO, THAT YOU SIMPLY DON’T KNOW AND NEVER WILL KNOW FOR SURE). ERICKSON KNOWS THIS FULLY WELL; THIS IS WHY HE IS WAITING UNTIL THE DNA EVIDENCE IS PRESENTED; HE HAS SUBMITTED A NUMBER OF SAMPLES TO MELBA KETCHUM’S LAB, SOME OF WHICH ARE ASSOCIATED WITH VIDEO & PHOTOS OF THE SAME CREATURE. IT STILL REMAINS TO BE SEEN WHETHER DR. KETCHUM WILL CRATER FIRST, OR WHETHER WE MAY WELL HAVE TO START OVER IF THE WHOLE THING AT HER INFAMOUS LAB “IN TEXAS” ENDS UP IN LITIGATION–FROM MANY SIDES. I PERSONALLY WOULD LIKE TO START OVER WITH THE DNA WORK, JUST IN CASE MELBA FALLS FLAT ON HER FACE OR ENDS UP WITH NOTHING BUT LEGAL COSTS–THE LATTER OF WHICH IS HIGHLY LIKELY, BY THE WAY.
        3. There is no video or photographic evidence that rules out a human mime (including PGF) due to size. ABSOLUTELY CORRECT. THEY IS ALSO NO VIDEO, FILM, OR PHOTOGRAPHIC EVIDENCE THAT RULES OUT THE POSSIBILITY OF THE “REAL DEAL” IN MANY OF THE PHOTOS AVAILABLE EITHER. CONCLUSIONS? NONE, ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
        4. There are many, many, examples of prints and photos being hoaxed, manipulated, etc. over the course of many years. DOES THIS MEAN THEY ARE ALL HOAXED? HARDLY SO, BUT POSSIBLY.
        5. Eyewitness testimony is consistently shown to be less than ideal for making clear determinations especially considering most eyewitnesses are not experts in wildlife biology or a related discipline. SO WHAT?
        6. Most sightings are at night, with emotional (fear factor) overtones thus distorting or negatively influencing what was actually present. ALL OF THEM? i HARDLY THINK SO, BUT YOU MAY BE RIGHT, ONCE AGAIN–WE’LL HAVE TO WAIT AND SEE.
        7. There is no documented evidence of any North American ape species. MEANWHILE, I DON’T EVEN BELIEVE IN THE “APE” THEORIES SUCH AS THOSE HYPOTHESIZED BY MELDRUM ET.AL. MY CURRENT BELIEFS (NOT KNOWLEDGE) ARE BASED ON DNA EVIDENCE, AND–AS YOU POINT OUT–THE STRIKING SIMILARITY BETWEEN MOST PURPORTEDLY HOAXED OR PURPORTEDLY NOT HOAXED PHOTOS OR VIDEOS.
        8. Obtaining, collecting, isolating and testing DNA has multiple pathways for and is highly susceptible to human contamination. i KNOW THIS, AND SO DOES DR. KETCHUM. YOU CAN’T KNOW THIS, BUT WE ACTUALLY TOOK EXTENSIVE STEPS TO PREVENT CONTAMINATION OF ANY KIND WITH THE FIRST THREE SAMPLES (I SAW SOME RESULTS OF A FOURTH SAMPLE, BUT SOON AFTER I WASN’T INVOLVED, SO I CAN’T REALLY SAY FOR SURE ABOUT SAMPLE #4). SEVERAL OF US WHO AT LEAST SAW THE SAMPLES HAD OUR OWN DNA SEQUENCED, AND THERE WAS NO EVIDENCE OF CONTAMINATION FROM EITHER ME OR ONE OTHER INVESTIGATOR. DR. KETCHUM HAD HER OWN DNA SEQUENCED, BUT SHE WOULDN’T GIVE ME HER OWN RESULTS, JUST AS SHE HASN’T GIVEN ME ANY RESULTS WHATSOEVER SINCE THE FIRST THREE SAMPLES (EXCEPT MY OWN DNA AND ONE OTHER INVESTIGATOR’S DNA–AND NEITHER OF US ARE SASQUAI, I CAN ASSURE YOU OF THAT!). IF THE SAMPLES WERE ACTUALLY CONTAMINATED, I DO BELIEVE THE SEQUENCING I HAVE SEEN WERE REASONABLY RELIABLE, IF NOT PERFECT IN EVERY SINGLE mtDNA PAIR ACROSS THE ENTIRE 16,569 PAIR MITO GENOME.

        THE ONLY ALTERNATIVE EXPLANATION IN MY MIND FOR THE RESULTS I HAVE SEEN, AND EVEN FOR THOSE I HAVE NOT SEEN, IS THAT DR. KETCHUM HERSELF COULD BE HOAXING HER OWN WORK. SHE MAY BE A LOT OF THINGS TO A LOT OF PEOPLE, BUT THAT ISN’T ONE OF THEM, AT LEAST NOT IN MY MIND.

        I ALSO KNOW THAT ADRIAN ERICKSON HAS POURED ALMOST $3 M INTO HIS “ERICKSON PROJECT” OVER THE PAST SIX YEARS OR SO. NO ONE, NOT EVEN ADRIAN, EVER EXPECTS TO RECOVER MORE THAN A FEW THOUSAND DOLLARS, MAYBE, ON ANIMAL PLANET OR SOME SUCH WITH HIS OTHERWISE EXCELLENT FOOTAGE. IF ADRIAN IS HOAXING, WELL SO BE IT. THAT’S ONE VERY EXPENSIVE HOAX, AND THEREFORE EXTREMELY UNLIKELY TO BE A WELL-COORDINATED AND EXTREMELY INVOLVED HOAX ON THE PART OF BOTH ADRIAN AND HIS ENTIRE TEAM.

        I CAN ONLY CONCLUDE BY SAYING, MIKE, THAT I PERSONALLY AM NOT HOAXING ANYTHING. YOU CAN’T REALLY KNOW THAT FOR SURE, JUST AS I CAN’T REALLY KNOW YOU AREN’T “HOAXING YOUR HOAX THEORY”. AM i BEING HOAXED MYSELF, BY ALL THESE FOLKS (EXCEPT YOU)? MAYBE–I JUST DONT’ THINK SO.

        FINALLY, WHY DID OUR (MAINLY) EUROPEAN FOREFATHERS NOT CONSTANTLY COME UP WITH “BIGFOOT” OR YETI STORIES FROM WESTERN EUROPE, WHETHER IN THE PAST OR STILL TODAY? I LIVED IN SCANDINAVIA FOR ABOUT 10 YEARS, AND NEVER DID I HEAR OR READ ABOUT A SINGLE “SIGHTING” OR “APE” STORY. [AND YES, I SPEAK DANISH, WHERE I LIVED.] ONLY WHEN ONE GETS AS FAR EAST AS GEORGIA (THE COUNTRY) AND RUSSIA, AND FURTHER EASTWARDS DOES ONE START TO HEAR SIMILAR STORIES AND SEE SOME SIMILAR EVIDENCE. WHY? DID WE ALL OF A SUDDEN BECOME “HOAX CRAZY” JUST BECAUSE WE BECAME “AMERICANS” INSTEAD OF DANES, NORWEGIANS, FRENCH, GERMANS, ENGLISHMEN, ETC.? WE MAY BE CRAZY, MIKE, BUT WE ARE NOT THAT CRAZY !

        KEEP WRITING–I ENJOY THE CHALLENGE, AND YOU ARE VERY POLITE AND PROFESSIONAL. THAT MEANS A WHOLE LOT MORE TO ME THAN WHAT YOU BELIEVE (OR NOT).

        RICHARD STUBSTAD

        • Thanks Richard,
          You’re a good sport. I won’t answer point by point but will go for the clinchers.

          The issue with the print or whole body hoaxing is this – since many prints have been hoaxed by many different humans (x > 1) and NO BIGFOOTS (0) have been discovered, the obvious causative effect of ALL prints is human created and becomes the default and only source. To overcome mathematically the probability of a new species being discovered without first being seen, photographed, and analyzed by scientists in that specialty with confirmation of being outside of the range of humans by size and proportion, is zero.

          Put this into perspective as an engineer. Look at the equation that would result. You are comparing the probability that photographic and video evidence is lacking and so side step that by applying some new (as you yourself admit) and therefore questionable technology that somehow leads us to the answer. Without proper scientific documentation (by an appropriate expert) of its anatomical features through visual study in-situ or by way of video or photographic evidence, we don’t even know the question, let alone have a clue as to the answer.

          I can tell you i have looked at every available piece of potential video evidence (yes, including the pancake video which I watched on MM.’s laptop in 2006) and there is not a single one that can be or has been analyzed where the outcome definitively showed dimensions, proportions, or detailed information that ruled out either a human, a digital creation, or a human in a suit. You may beg to differ and if so, provide the source and I will take a look at it. If not, that puts the mathematics (probability) for bigfoot which you should readily understand, in such a conundrum as to not be feasible. Compounding the problem is that the new, relatively untested method of DNA analysis (for this purpose) doesn’t help the zero probability.

          And actually Richard, your argument of me hoaxing my hoax theory is a fools errand, a straw-man and you know it. Many hoaxed prints have been found with the hoax tool demonstrated in use (think Ray Wallace for one).

          Does it not concern you at all that Matt Moneymaker with the BFRO who has been conducting “expeditions” in nearly every State of the Union for the past decade at least, with a benefactor supplying his team with thermal imagers and high quality game cams has not obtained a single photo or video with any detail or size/proportion analysis that rules out human? I know Mike Green personally who thinks he has a thermal image of one from N.C. Mike is a stand-up guy – a former fraud investigator, yet his video is proportionally similar and does not show characteristics different from a typical human.

          All of this, yet eye-witness account after account indicates a 400-800 lb bipedal ape-like creature with heights from 6 feet up to 10 feet in height. A photo of just one 9-footer would help seal this deal. But no – not one.

          Yet you, and apparently many others, go off with this optimism that somehow all of that is irrelevant because a Dr. Ketchum (a veterinarian) has a hunk of meat from somewhere that must be from a bigfoot (whatever that is)!

          Let me try another angle – the ivory billed woodpecker. As you are probably aware this species was believed to have been extirpated many years ago, when in early 2000 ornithologists from Cornell (the premier ornithological research lab) conducted a 5 year study based upon some initial sightings by skilled laymen. That study resulted first in some brief sightings (verified by their distinctive known pecking behavior and coloration pattern) and culminated in a brief video in 2005.

          The important items here are that the best ornithological research lab in the world was employed to do a thorough study. The study area was 523,000 acres in 8 states focusing on Arkansas. They obtained credible accounts first, authenticated the habitat required, planned out the investigation and moved forward to finally obtain some brief convincing footage. Credible sightings, authentication of proper habitat, authentication of known behavior and footage matching the previously documented species.

          All of that is missing with bigfoot. No credible sightings that have been validated with expected evidence, no verifiable photographic data showing dimensions consistent with reported sightings ruling out humans, no qualitative or quantitative data convincing to any legitimate anthropological research institute to initiate a study.

          That is the hurdle, that is the obstacle, that is the 400 lb. gorilla in this room. And you did not overcome it.

          Your rejection of the ape theory is fine, but that is what is being reported in fairly consistent and large numbers over time – a large bulky, hairy, bi-pedal, non tool-using, non fire-building, rock throwing, tree-knocking, bluff charging, howling, growling, creature. So if you don’t accept the hundreds of reports indicating this as the creature that is supposedly out there, what then forms the basis for what you are suggesting is behind the DNA?

  41. Wow. I just found this site, good stuff here!

    Re: being banned, itchy ban finger: yer site, yer rules. If a guest acts up at a party at my house, I eject him/her. NO difference.

    Back to BF…this is all just wild stuff, but much makes sense concerning people who might kill a Sas. Nevah ave it much thought, but yeah, Sas in logging areas, and such, and being a nuisance or if found, logging areas being declared environmentally sensitive. If a tiny fish like a snail darter can shut down industry, and development, wow, what could a gathering of Sas do?

  42. And what about Todd Standing in all this? Odd that he seems to have erased himself, effectively….

  43. Hi, all, Richard Stubstad here once again.

    I would hereby like to straighten out “the record” to the best of my knowledge here on a few issues:

    1) The DNA testing project which used to be headed by Melba Ketchum and now appears to be a “one woman show” so to speak (maybe with some so-called “assistants”) is NOT the same as the “Erickson Project”.

    2) Adrian Erickson lists Dr. Ketchum on his website because they have an agreement to a) test a handful of his sasquatch samples, from approx. six different sites; and b) to release the results of “our” DNA findings at a press conference and possibly elsewhere “in the media”.

    3) Since the time I arranged to have several samples taken to Dr. Ketchum’s lab in Texas, in January of 2010 and Erickson had his half-dozen samples taken to her lab in February and/or March of 2010, Dr. Ketchum has proceeded to acquire many more purported sasquatch samples. I don’t really know for sure, but she may have as many as 20 or so samples total that are NOT just strands of hair (and many more hair samples, to be sure); thus Adrian Erickson has only submitted maybe 1/4 of all samples she has, maybe even less.

    4) The purported “sasquatch kill” samples were NOT submitted by the Olympic project or anyone else to “the Erickson Project”. They were submitted AFTER all of the Erickson Project samples were submitted. Even though Adrian knows the “kill story”, as I do, neither of us have anything whatsoever to do with these kill(s). The difference between Adrian and me in this regard is that Adrian tends to believe the story, while I still believe it is a hoax (neither of us are sure, either way, though).

    5) In any rate, regardless of what the Erickson Project, the Olympic Project, the NABS Project (Dave Paulides), or SFBI or even others say, NONE of these are “in charge” of the “Ketchum Project”; rather they are ALL most likely being played off against one-another. In the end, no one really knows what is going on there in Texas at the Ketchum lab, and/or any of the “blind” labs she has sent some or all of the samples to.

    6) All of us (including me) only know what we are told, or shown, and the rest is guesswork because–unfortunately–the legal system became involved in or around October or November of 2010, representing Dr. Ketchum only; none of the others involved TO MY KNOWLEDGE.

    7) Regarding the “Sylvanic” project; I don’t know what is going on, but I believe that Adrian Erickson has the rights to the project now, and that “the jury is still out” on its validity, or partial validity. The reason that Todd Standing doesn’t say much anymore is that he isn’t running his own show any longer, although he does have better equipment at his disposal now.

    8) Robert Lindsay is right–Derekfoot is not being straight-forward and if you think about it, he can’t be. If it is him who is “in charge” of these one or two purported kills”, he pretty much has to cover up, the best as he can, what really happened until the test results are released, at least. I have seen a 3-month old email from him that says something like, “let me be clear; there has been no Bigfoot kill…”; now we find out that in fact there WAS a kill. Still, neither Derekfoot or I were actually THERE at the site, so neither of us may know the real truth of the matter. Reportedly, someone else was in the pickup truck at the time, and this person totally panicked when the occurrence took place.

    9) My take on it? I believe it when I see the evidence; at this point, it is just hearsay, all of it. Truthfully, I hope it really didn’t happen and that it IS a hoax. In principal, I don’t kill my fellow man, let alone my “fellow hominid”, so I don’t WANT anything to do with it. If it happened, didn’t they know it was a sasquatch? In my opinion, of course they did. Did they feel threatened and “had to shoot”? Of course not, these sasquai folks are not “attackers” as we are as Homo sapiens according to all their published MO’s (LOL). And–attacked IN A PICKUP? Give me a break.

    Thanks, folks, for your attention. What I’d like to see now is for us to essentially “start over”, since at a minimum we will need independent confirmation of the Dr. Ketchum “one-woman” study by true geneticists and DNA scientists (NOT ME !!!). The best folks is who we need–the Max Planck Institute folks et.al. from other world-wide centers of excellence. With the “lawyering up” going on, especially in the State of Texas, the Ketchum (NOT Erickson) Project may be far off indeed, especially if it all ends up in court even before fruition.

    We, that is us “neutrals”, don’t need to wait until the smoke clears. We need to move forward, DNA-wise, regardless of the Ketchum, Erickson, Olympic, BRFO, NABS, and SFBI projects on their own.

    Richard Stubstad

    • Hey Richard, I have heard your name a bit as of late, nice summary above. I have been told that Dr. Ketchum’s Sasquatch DNA study is a double-blind study, so, there will be plenty of independent confirmation involved assuming that this is true.

      Last I heard is that the study has to be reviewed, accepted & published by one of the major science journals before the results become public which is where we presently sit as far as I know. I will try to find out more in the coming days. Take care.

      Kind regards,
      Allan

      • Allan,
        You seem like a reasonable fellow too. Just because you heard it from people you know, still doesn’t answer the cart before the horse dilemma as I posted above. Yet it is the 400 lb gorilla (or bf) in the room. Everyone avoids it as they are lured by this tantalizing story.

        I was pretty close to a fellow researcher who had “habituation” contacts in Mississippi, Kansas, Oklahoma, and Pacific Northwest who told me incredible first-hand stories. He was so adrenaline impacted that he neglected the hard questions. That’s where I came in, and resulted in our going separate ways. One story he sincerely believed in was of a group in the PNW who had contact with a 10-ft. bf that would essentially come out on command and be within feet of you. One provision – you could not look at it! And don’t even think of having a camera (even concealed on you).

        It really doesn’t take long before you realize so many want so badly for these things to be real, that they become real to them without ever having any hard evidence. You truly think we will have the evidence by the end of the year? If I was a betting man, I would put about any sum I could put together to bet against you. But since I am not, I’ll just say this, let’s meet up here on this blog on December 31, 2011 (should something earth-shattering not occur sooner) and see who is right. What do you say?

  44. Having a 10ft tall Bigfoot come out on command within feet of you but you can’t look at it? I laughed outloud at that one. You proposal sounds like a good plan to me Mike, I will see you then – hopefully sooner. If I am wrong, I will be here to take it on the chin. Have a good evening.

    Allan

  45. mitchw

    Mike Nichols wrote,
    “The study area was 523,000 acres in 8 states focusing on Arkansas. They obtained credible accounts first, authenticated the habitat required, planned out the investigation and moved forward to finally obtain some brief convincing footage. Credible sightings, authentication of proper habitat, authentication of known behavior and footage matching the previously documented species.”

    If the Ketchum/Paulides work pans out, then we can expect more resources being put to work in closely surveying a proposed habitat. DNA will likely convince many of Bigfoot’s reality, but others will need more physical evidence. More money and expert manpower may be unlocked by strong DNA evidence, with good provenance.

  46. Hi, Richard Stubstad here again …

    Folks, at this point I’d like to hear back from as many of you as possible as to:

    A) You are tired of the verbal duel between Mike Nichols & me; or
    B) You think our verbal duel is useful & sheds valuable light on the subject matter–from both sides of the coin, so to speak.

    After I hear back from at least a few of you (not Mike Nichols–I know he’s game for it), I will take up the verbal exchange once again, in good spirits and good faith as it has been to-date. I for one like Mike’s honesty & “insider” (BRFO) knowledge and I’m frankly enjoying the challenge.

    • HOLDMYBEER

      I, for one, would like to see the conversation continue. You both bring perspective to the table. So much so I will attempt to contact you both by back channel.

      HOLDMYBEER

    • citizentruth

      I’m shiny brand new to the site and I quite enjoy the debate you and Mike are having.Both of you have valid points and I can relate to both sides of the issue at hand.
      It’s refreshing to find a site where people can share their views without getting stomped on.I also like the fact that both of you provide rationale for your statements.
      As you were;)

  47. I believe Bigfoots have been shot. I believe our government knows about Bigfoot. I believe their numbers might be so small that mathematical they will be extinct in x number of years

  48. Thirty some years ago I read where Dr. Grover Krantz had found a family of Sas in the forests of E. Wash that had a crippled child. As I had been born crippled but my condition repaired I was curious as to what would happen to this child. Dr. Krantz did follow up on this family and apparently it had a normal Sasquatch life. No one bullied or tormented it as happens frequently among us. I thot ‘hooray for the Sas”. I read everything there was in the library at that time, including the story about a young Sas that fell off a cliff up near Yale BC.and was held captive. I take them as a very real creature and have done a series of cartoons on them, made it into a book I call Save Our Sasquatch.($35)POD. it is based on what is known and possibly is a reality. I hope it will be useful in solving this mystery for I have some ancient esoteric knowledge in it. Deut.2:20 and also the first few chapters of Joshua and his military exploits describe them and even name them as Zimzummim. Then there was Golieth. If you don’t have a Bible you can Google ‘Giants in the Bible” to check it out. Further historical texts have them in Persia, Russia, Tibet, Siberia etc. Immanuel Velakovsky refers to them as having been a race that was so advanced yet became so immoral that they degenerated into beasts.
    Again the Bible stated the ‘sons of God looked down on the daughters of men and finding them fair took them for wives, thereby creating a race of giants.’ There are other ancient civilizations now extinct that mention them.
    When Joshua went into the land of Caanan He drove out of the valley of Hebron some foul smellilng giants, who had a King named OG who’s bed was 14 cubits long and 4 cubits wide.Maybe bigger than our Sasquatch.
    . I began to feel a certain empathy with them whether they were real or not I can’t go out in the forest and interview them, so started doing cartoons about them. We need to learn to laugh at ourselves and they are a very good substitute. Why hurt them, they won’t like it.

  49. Justin

    I’d like to see the conversation continue at the part 2 interview thread, because there’s so many comments here, so few there, and that’s where KEN WALKER’s big mouth continues. Sorry, but all of you are here because of it and I don’t feel he deserves anonymity anymore.

  50. Why do they want to kill them, figure out how to capture a big foot, test them like a doctor would and let them go. Thats the problem with some humans they want to kill it instead of finding out what it is. Some humans are savages.

  51. Richard Stubstad over on the BFF (http://bigfootforums.com/index.php?/topic/6177-interview-with-richard-stubstad-are-bigfoots-human/page__pid__75492__st__510#entry75492) Post No. 544 today wrote,

    “The only Labs IN THE WORLD that can do the nuclear sequencing correctly and successfully (and without contamination, which they check VERY thoroughly) is the same set of labs that have done ALL the nuclear DNA work on the Neanderthal and Denisovan relics–the Max Planck Institute, and a handful of others they work with with (MIT for one, I believe). If these folks don’t do the work, IT WON’T GET DONE RIGHT AND FURTHERMORE IT WILL NOT PASS PEER REVIEW and create more controversy than solve problems. So PLEASE, folks, KEEP you samples for the time being until I get together with one or two other researchers. Once we somehow make contact with the Max Planck Institute, we would probably fly to Germany with a whole lot of samples to test. I certainly wouldn’t trust the shipping companies with such potentially valuable commodities. Also, once they are turned over to the Max Planck Institute (or whoever they work–look up under Neanderthal and Denisovan DNA), they will be in GOOD HANDS and we won’t have to worry about all this lawyering up that’s going on now. We will ALL own the results, collectively, to do whatever we want to with these results, while the Max Planck Institute will get ALL of the credit for both the mito- and nuclear-DNA sequencing.

    Nothing else will work, folks, trust me. I’ve learned the hard way, that’s for sure. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me.

    Never again. We simply must go to the REAL professionals with this; it’s just not all that easy, because we have an UNKNOWN HOMINID in our midst that needs to be protected, sooner rather than later.”

    Richard Stubstad

    Richard, from everything I have read from you, there is nothing to substantiate your last statement. The only thing we have in our midst (according to your own words) are some unknown samples obtained under dubious circumstances, combined with outlandish scientifically unsupported claims, most of which fall short of credibility on their face. For example, what scientist or half-way clear thinking individual could possibly believe the “bearhunter” (pick any of several) story?

    And please spare the bleeding heart environmentalist plea for protection. If a bigfoot, which you have not even attempted to describe with the exception of some cryptic genetic gobbletygook, (although we do know now you do not think is an ape), exists in nearly every state of the Union and is that adept at evading cameras that its’ image has not yet been captured for scientific verification, then fill us in on the rationale for the urgency of passing laws to prevent whatever it is that you think real humans are doing that is a threat to its’ (whatever it is) existence. Perhaps whatever real humans are doing to this hybrid human is simply supplying an unlimited and diverse source of reproductive raw material that actually guarantees its continued success. :)

    Sorry, it was just too irresistible.
    Mike Nichols

    • UFOrider:

      Folks have tried capturing since time zero. They are too smart to be captured, let alone shot. I still don’t believe the kill story, but it is possible. The last time a probable capture took place was in the mid-eighteen hundreds, in George (near Russia, not the USA State). Her name was ZANA. Her youngest son’s name was Khwit, and he died in the 1950’s. A photograph of him survives to this day.

      Most likely, assuming the Story of Zana is true, the “Almasty” as they are called in Russia are likely a different subspecies from our sasquatch, having split apart maybe as much as 15,000 years ago.

      I’m beginning to think that most, not only “some”, humans are savages. Meanwhile, the sasquai don’t appear to be savages at all (if they exist). So who is “most developed”, may I ask?

      The reason I don’t necessarily believe that the “kill” described here took place is NOT that we aren’t savages–we are, for sure. It’s because the sasquai’s MO is NOT to put themselves into harm’s way. The idea that this mother female bigfoot could not leave the roadway is ludicrous, because OF COURSE they can move through almost any terrain imaginable, much easier than a man can.

      Now that I know pretty much exactly where the purported killing took place, I will drive up there and have a look next time I visit my youngest son, in Truckee. Truckee is about an hour or two’s drive from the site.

      Richard Stubstad

      Mike: Re. your comment on this site instead of where I posted the above comment: I would really like to continue discussing the issue of “to be or not to be” with you; however someone suggested we do so on the “second bear hunter interview” page of Robert Lindsay’s. Sorry, but I just haven’t had time to re-engage yet this weekend–besides the little ditty above, my wife seems to have piled up the chores as if there were no tomorrow for me. On the other hand, tomorrow is another day, after which there is ALSO no tomorrow …

      While you may well be right–as usual–regarding you comment, I do not believe you are. I have many more reasons to believe as I do (although I admit; I’m not sure) than I can disclose here, so don’t wait for that. Suffice it to say that I, personally, haven’t seen enough nuDNA evidence yet to make any kind of “educated” guess as to whether there are some nuDNA sequences that truly show a different hominid–such as Neanderthal (but not that), for example. So I really don’t know for sure. What I do know for sure is that it’s a good idea to find out–just in case I’m right, and just in case the guy who purportedly shot to sasquai near Frenchman Lake STOP doing so. Of course, I don’t believe that particular story either, at least not yet.

      But there are other “stories” I definitely DO believe. I’ll go into some of these, and other things, with you on Robert Lindsay’s 2nd Interview page.

      All the best,

      Richard Stubstad

    • Anonymous for now...

      Mike,

      On July 1st you posted…”Your logic is mystifying. No one yet including yourself has even attempted to answer my challenge. Here it is again for anyone to take a crack at:
      1. No extant species to date has ever been discovered by DNA evidence prior to it being conclusively documented by photographic evidence and/or capture.
      AGREED
      2. The most compelling photographic evidence to date (as stated by the head of the BFRO on Animal Planet’s “Finding Bigfoot” series which aired last Sunday) is the Star Mountain photograph.
      DISAGREE: I contend that the PG Film stands as the most authentic. I say this specifically due to the circumstances and, moreover, the technological disadvantages of the era in which it was filmed. I contend that, with the advances of CGA and software (i.e. Photoshop), any and all video/photographic evidence should be suspect and therefore refuttable. The available technologies that existed in 1967 can not account for the PG film’s unique characteristics.
      3. There is no video or photographic evidence that rules out a human mime (including PGF) due to size.
      DISAGREE: The numerous (and admittedly contradicting) studies on the PG film almost unanimously suggest the subject to be well outside of human norms.
      4. There are many, many, examples of prints and photos being hoaxed, manipulated, etc. over the course of many years.
      AGREED: However, such events are anecdotal in comparrison of the shear volume of reports and therefore can only account for a fraction of sightings. The remoteness and spontaniety of many sightings and evidence virtually rule out hoaxing in most cases.
      5. Eyewitness testimony is consistently shown to be less than ideal for making clear determinations especially considering most eyewitnesses are not experts in wildlife biology or a related discipline.
      DISAGREE: It does not take an expert in wildlife biology to qualify someone for discribing the sight of a Bigfoot anymore than it would describing a giraffe or a elephant.
      6. Most sightings are at night, with emotional (fear factor) overtones thus distorting or negatively influencing what was actually present.
      AGREE/DISAGREE: While many sightings have occured at night, many have been in broad daylight (such as my own; which included three other eyewitnesses) and should not be so easily discounted.
      7. There is no documented evidence of any North American ape species.
      AGREE/DISAGREE: While there is no documented evidence of an “ape species” in North America, there is plenty of evidence of primates having existed here (including in my state of Oregon in the John Day Fossil Beds). What I find more fascinating is the glaring absence of modern-day primate activity in the Pacific Northwestern U.S. given global distribution of primates and the abundance of habitat and resources available here.
      8. Obtaining, collecting, isolating and testing DNA has multiple pathways for and is highly susceptible to human contamination.
      AGREED/DISAGREE: With all due respect, your statement does not quantifiably eliminate every DNA sample merely due to the “possibility” of human contamination.
      Given these factual foundations, what rational scientific justification is there for skipping the relatively easy task – getting good photographic evidence that can rule out human in terms of size – and jumping ahead to a much harder task of seeing, sighting in, shooting, but not collecting, and then somehow tissue for DNA analysis?

      The process has never happened before, it is backwards and therefore not credible. It cannot hold up to scientific scrutiny in the absence of a rationale scientific explanation for this glaring impediment.

      Any takers?

      I’ll take that chalenge!

  52. See you there. But I will be out of commission for awhile, so will return later.

    Mike Nichols

  53. You guys don’t believe this story do you?

  54. Was it Mike Nichols and Richard Stubstad you were referring to? I think it is safe to say that neither Mike Nichols nor I believe this “kill” story, albeit for partially different reasons.

    It is also safe to say there are OTHER stories that Mike and I differ on in terms of our opinions.

    Lastly in my own case, with few exceptions these are really my opinions, not “reality” as such.

    Richard Stubstad

  55. Pingback: Breathtaking News from the Erickson Project | Robert Lindsay

  56. lol Realy

    1st plz dont ban me ill try to be nice
    2nd Robert Lindsay your a moron sry u just are
    3rd i dont think bigfoot is real i know it is ive seen 1 and 100% sure what i saw
    4thRobert Lindsay is a moron again sry but u are
    that bear hunter story come on man sasquatch killed all the time ppl have huge mouths and they love money a body would have surfaced im not even gonna go on about the rest of the story wich looked like a comic book and mike nichols idc if u believe or not or any1 else i wont try to argue just say 1 more time ive seen it it was close enough tall enough hairy enough and running fast enough on 2 legs to change my mind i find it alot more likely that bigfoot was running into the woods in south western P.A at 3am then shaquile O’neil decided to put on a monkey suit and go jogging into the woods btw i dont think Shaq is even that tall

  57. Michael M.

    Whoa! Another story of shot bigfoots….but the bodies were taken. Didn’t see that coming. Give it up man, you keep saying “you will see” I think it is going to be YOU that will see you are chasing a ghost.

    Hand!

  58. Michael M.

    another thing, interviewing someone who knows someone who “allegedly” shot a bigfoot is not a credible story. Fag

  59. andrwe

    check out this new video on you tube
    there is a baby Sasquatch in the mothers hand.
    I hope it is real, take a look for youself

    http://www.youtube.com/user/saaalaw

  60. andrew

    Check out this new Sasquatch video on YouTube.
    The mother Sasquatch walks over and picks up a the baby Sasquatch,
    They both look at who’s filming them and leave’s
    I hope it is real, I don’t know, But it looks real ,Take a look for yourself

    http://www.youtube.com/user/saaalaw

  61. Pingback: Did a hunter kill a female Bigfoot and her offspring? « R.W. Ridley

  62. Hope you had a good 4th of July Robert.

    Kind regards,
    Allan

  63. Smith

    Let me get a few things across as politely as i can here…

    I am a believer of bigfoot in some areas, and some sightings i do believe are legitimate. But lets be honest here, doesn’t this all seem a lot more confusing than it needs to be.
    Great article here Robert, but i do believe it belongs in some kind of a fictional book. This was 8 months ago, and i’m sure we’d be hearing a LOT more about it if we had serious bodies on our hands.
    Besides. If Mr. Moneymaker were to be deeply involved in ‘buying evidence’ i may have believed it before he came out with a series dedicated to the location of these creatures.
    I know it is possible for a large bi-pedal creature to be hiding in the Pacific North-west, but i’m just not buying this.
    So ban me if you wish, but when you do, i’ll know this was all a publicity stunt and that little bit of hope of truth i had in this article would vanish.

    • Guess what? Reality is a Hell of a lot more confusing than it needs to be!

      Moneymaker heard the story, but he didn’t try to buy the bodies.

      I believe the shooter still has the bodies. My understanding is everyone is afraid of going to jail, so they are all quiet. Anyway, a slice of one of the bodies was turned into Ketchum’s DNA project. We know this for a fact.

      I am not going to ban you.

  64. Flave

    Why would anyone be going to jail?

  65. If it looked like the Jacobs creature then it wasn’t a bear. In Scienteriffic magazine Duke University primate scientist Vanessa Woods has published duplicate photos of models taken at the site in Pennsylvania. This same scenerio setup shows the exact proportions it has 22 inch arms with a 18 3/4 long torso proving that “it” was not a bear.

  66. Robert I want this to be true, my grandparents told me long ago bigfoot is a demon spirit who is only seen by somebody that has strayed from their path in life but I know that some Bigfoot sightings are real. I know their mainly hiding in the Pacific North-west but members from my Seneca tribe have seen them here in NY and in Pa. Seagullguy above is right that was no bear I’m from a bear clan and I know what a bear looks like and that was not one. Good luck with this project I will be watching.

    • apehuman

      John Wind, I am curious if there is any current taboo or community discouragement for those within the tribe that “look” for Bigfoot. Or if no one actually looks, how a sighting is handled today. In the SW some of the tribes consider it an honor to see a Bigfoot, and I wonder about the different oral traditions that surround the species. Some tribes however, carry a memory of shape-shifters, and feel Bigfoot may be part of that. Lief Erickson, on arrival in Newfoundland, wrote in his journal about large, hairy, “natives” that fled at sight of his men and they could never catch. John, the first time I saw Sas tracks in the field they were along side bear tracks, at the time I thought how lucky (see they aren’t at all alike). But now, many trips later I wonder about possible synergistic relationships btw BF’s and animals. Any input there wrt to bear clan and BF or stories that relate to BF’s relationship with animals?

  67. Mike

    This Robert fellow seems like a huge nerd and this interview seems to have about as much credibility as the North Korean state run media. I weep for the people who believe the nonsense this faggot is sharing. LOL.

    ibban

  68. Mike

    BAN EVERYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME!! I HAVE THE POWER!

  69. “RL: Yes, what is it? A bear?

    BH: No way. It’s a juvenile Bigfoot. You can tell by the hips. And the neck. The thing has no neck. I know bears. I love bears. No way is that a bear.

    RL: Why did he shoot the adult Bigfoot? He says he thought it was a bear.

    BH: No. He knew what it was. Because of the color. Bears don’t come in off-white. Anyone knows that. He shot it because he thought it was threatening him.”

    First, the guy says he knows and loves bears. Then he says they don’t come in off-white.

    Ahem…..

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kermode_bear

  70. Justin

    BH meant in that location.

  71. Have you heard anything new on this front Robert? It’s been kind of quiet the last couple of weeks. I have not checked with my sources yet but probably will in the next day or two.

    Kind regards,
    Allan

  72. Todd M. Neiss

    I have hypathetically envisioned a BF carcass scenario numerous times in my research and would not have proceeded like this group has.

    All of this advanced publicity on a purported BF DNA find is reminiscent of the hype that preceeded the Biscardi “BF in a freezer” stunt.

    NOTE TO SELF: If you genuinely have proof…show it (don’t hype it).

    If I were to have come upon a BF carcass, I would do the following…

    1) Collect an irrefutable sample (i.e. a hand, head, foot, finger, etc.). This could be done within minutes and would easily be transportable from the site. No long drawn out DNA study would have to be done immediately to prove what you have. This person was allegedly a hunter who surely was prepared to haul out his game. In the case of the juvinille BF, as was described, would not have exceeded the size of the game the hunter was prepared to extract. Why then would they not have attempted to recover the carcass of the younger BF?

    2) If a camera is on hand (most people carry cell phones with cameras)…take pictures!

    3) Return to the site ASAP with the means to remove the rest of the carcass(s).

    4) If the only evidence collected was unidentifiable tissue scraps, conduct all DNA sequencing BEFORE ever discussing it publically. All forensic work woul done in absolute secrecy.

    5) Avoid collaborating with any outside groups who had nothing to do with the origianl find. The fact that the “project” has morphed into an Erickson + Olympic + BFRO + (?) collaboration is very suspicious. Why share your find with mutiple groups when it is rightfully your discovery? It would appear that this is an attempt to gain credibility, obtain funding, and share the blame in the event of a failure.

    I predict another major press conference soon in which a lot of publicity (notoriety) will be the only thing that comes of it; followed by a mea copa that the presenters were duped. That and another black eye to the research community as a whole. The “proof” will remain likely be refutable and circumstantial, if not proven to be yet another hoax all together.

    Put up or shut up!

    Beast Regards,
    SSG Todd M. Neiss
    Joint Base Balad, Iraq

    http://about.me/toddneiss

    • apehuman

      Todd, I notice you are in the military. In your scenario, with this dead BF, would you notify any authorities prior to the release of your data?

      • panpan

        I can see how the government would cover up a BF body.One imagine the inpact it would have on the people who are creationist.It would be a concern of natural security to the highly religous person.two everything that the religous communities contribute to the church through money donations may decrease.And three they might start teaching Darwins evolution theory in the class rooms again.It will more than likely scare the crap out of parents also money through blind faith practacly rules the worlds economys.

        • Panpan:

          Thank you so much for contributing to what has turned into a healthy debate instead of a “forge ahead come hell or high water” with any particular approach to the goals of our collective “project”–protection of the sasquatch (pl.).

          There is also a military man involved here; in fact, the military is exactly the kind of hierarchical organization who can, “for the good of society and/or business”, not necessarily in that order, can cover up whatever the brass deem necessary and prudent.

          Would we want to turn a sasquatch body, or even a capture, over to the military, trusting they will be objective and fair, reaching conclusions that will benefit the sasquatch primarily, assuming it exists of course?

          Richard

  73. Todd Neiss

    In your interview with “Bear Hunter,” you ask him what his opinion is of Bigfoot’s use of Infrasound. (leading question as if it’s a fact…I digress)

    BH: I am not sure that they use infrasound. You see, all animals have an EMF field that they give off, and these things do too. One of my theories is that these things have a very strong EMF field that they give off, and they may be able to manipulate it. One thing you notice is that when these things are around, everything goes quiet, and most of the animals around take off. That’s because of the strong EMF field that the Bigfoots give off. It scares the crap out of other animals.

    TODD: Bear Hunter’s ascertation is what is known as an “Arguement from Ignorance.” In other words, the individual making the argument based on pure fallaciousness and personal opinion while stating it as fact. He begins by labeling it as a theory, but then slips into a factual mode. As amature’s in such fields, we need to be careful how we couch our theories and hypotheses; if we are to ever be taken seriously. Symantics count. Jiddu Krishnamurti once said, “If you begin with a conclusion you have nowhere to go.”

  74. Todd Neis you have said: “The fact that the “project” has morphed into an Erickson + Olympic + BFRO + (?) collaboration is very suspicious.” But I have seen where the BFRO has not wanted any involvment with this project until they have seen if it is real.

    • Gary B

      The only thing the BFRO wants any involvement in is that which makes it’s founder money. In the field of bigfoot dna, it takes two years to tell the world that it is inconclusive which then becomes more ‘evidence’ in the minds of proponents.

  75. again

    It is interesting to note that a DNA study by Prof. Brian Sykes (UK) on Yeti may come out first?
    Even About.com seems to know more the DNA studies than the guys claiming the Ketchumr DNA study as the first and only.
    It could be true that the participants only have a “yea or nay” on samples and no real results,.hard to imagine, but given the reputations of many prudent..
    Jeff Meldrum is also working on a paper with DNA from Malaysia?
    Here is About.com

    http://paranormal.about.com/library/weekly/aa040901a.htm

    I have no idea of the date on this article didn’t find anything more specific beyond 2011..
    Stubstad will continue his quest as well… we should have plenty of data….

  76. again

    lol, his name came up recently…I hear he is still active but do not know

  77. No, no, that’s NOT what I meant.

    I meant that we should avoid not only killing one (or more), but also capturing one. They are just fine living in the forested areas as long as we don’t approach them too closely & vice-versa. I just have a feeling they “know” about the European disease aspects of Close Contacts of a Second Kind. Even in habituation situations, they seem to never get too close, even if they trust the modern human involved. There may be a very good reason for this, apart from simply shyness.

    Closing an area to logging, drilling, and development (strip malls, etc.) may be needed, though. And obviously the threat of hunters who would shoot anything at all, even modern humans if they got the chance.

    You say it is “our” land. Isn’t it also the sasquai’s? Peaceful coexistence seems to be doable here, if we aren’t too arrogant about our status in this world.

    Unlike we were with the American Indians.

    Richard

    • Thank You for that clarification!
      It is theirs as well. And up to now, it’s working mighty fine.
      Richard, “Unlike we were with the American Indians.”
      Let’s try and keep that “we” confined to “who” it actually was.
      Same as “we” doesn’t work for anybody here being a part of nazi Germany.
      You also mention that their shyness might be because of disease or other reasons.
      I kind of think that there’s also what is taking place in todays world.
      Think of it, The movie making industry still creates films out in the forest and other places where these bigfoot live. They don’t understand what’s taking place, yet they watch us humans battling eachother, shooting, killing, attacking, with onlookers holding and pointing things (cameras) at the carnage taking place. Then you have huge explosions, and so on and so forth. Then the supposed dead get up off of the ground, and walk away. That, I would think, would really throw a monkeywrench into what they think of us.
      Or of cowboys on horseback, chasing down and capturing something as fast as a wild horse. I think that would tell them, it’s better to stay hidden.
      If a cowboy could capture something that fast, then they wouldn’t have a chance.
      Just my thoughts.
      And I am a firm believer that they do exist. Guaranteed 100%!
      I know they exist without a doubt.

    • anon

      I had a situation where the BF’s were accepting my food and some other things. Some months after that step they suddenly began to shift what they would take….after a lot of thought i tentatively conclude either something I left was associated with illness (or something negative) or someone else left something….(keep in mind these are “camp Bigfoots” and familiar with human campers and their treats..)
      It is possible a common cold or such was passed from me to them…but, it is as likely that others who became aware of what I was doing may be to blame….
      Hard to imagine anyone would purposefully drug or poison a BF, but it crossed my mind. There are still certain items they will take….but it is a much higher level of confidence for them the items are “good.”
      Sounds a bit mysterious I know….but in my mind something happened out there that changed things..and it is not clearly my efforts.. I say that b/c these BF’s still seem to “like” me….and will take certain things.
      I also tentatively conclude (my intuition says more) that they train their youth in their ways…which includes all the strategies for remaining hidden.
      You are right Skylar (or who said it)….there is nothing about us trustworthy. Our behavior in the pursuit of proving BF’s demonstrates that (along with all the things you mentioned).

      • Now that I believe (97% sure) that sasquatch is, by and large, partly “within human ranges”, I am also convinced they are aware of the dangers of modern humans, not only guns etc. but also our diseases.

        Meanwhile I’m not so sure if such an awareness on their part is cognitive to any appreciable degree. By cognitive, I mean “left-brained”. I believe they function almost 100% as a “right-brained hominid”.

        If you will recall, another haplotype of humans, the American Indians, were only partly decimated by guns & violence as shown in our old “Western” movies. The main culprit was our European diseases that the American Indian had no “antibodies” for. If these folks–Native Americans–had little or not resistance to European diseases, why would one think that sasquatch does?

        This may explain their “shyness” and aversion to contact with us beyond “games at a distance” — wood knocking; hide-and-seek, etc.

        Richard

    • RICHARD: “I meant that we should avoid not only killing one (or more), but also capturing one. They are just fine living in the forested areas as long as we don’t approach them too closely & vice-versa.

      With all due respect Richard, your claim is absolutely baseless and, I dare say, reckless. You have no proof of the overall health and status of this species. Without long-term, certifiable research, we will never truly be able to make such a claim. Doing so is tantamount to the same ingnorance that condemned the Dodo Bird, Tasmanian Tiger and Passenger Pidgeon to extinction.

      The collection of a single creature (dead or alive) as well as long-term field observation is the only way to make such claims and ultimately ensure the perpetuation of the species.

      I realize this is not a popular stand, but it is the truth.

      Todd Neiss
      Sandy, Oregon

      • OK, Todd (Neiss), have at it. You should also kill or capture several creatures, by the way, since there appears to be a VERY wide biodiversity involved here (based on DNA evidence),

        A lot of people have tried to kill one (some reportedly successfully), and Biscardi is attempting a capture or two “as we speak”.

        Good luck to all of you.

        By the way, how would we find out whether these creatures are susceptible to homo sapiens sapiens diseases by killing or capturing one (or more)? It took us a couple hundred years to figure that out with the Native Americans, as we now call the American Indians. What makes you think we’ll be any better at figuring it out with sasquatch?

        In my view (of course it’s an opinion, not fact), the only way we will be able to do the “field study” part of your idea is to somehow assure these creatures that we mean them no harm; we only want to study them — albeit at a distance. If too may of us have our capture nets and leg traps and whatnot out there, and our high-powered rifles trying to collect such a creature, well, we’ll probably never be able to get close to them whatsoever.

        In fact, according to some reports, several have already been killed — this is in fact very likely true. Well, sir, where are these bodies & DNA analysis etc. for “scientific purposes”? Think about it. The bodies somehow “disappear” or are buried surreptitiously by various “factions” who do not want the rest of us to know the truth.

        If so, sir, your position is reckless, not mine.

        Richard

        • The field study is worthless without proof that they exist, Richard.

          They can’t be that susceptible to disease or they would have died out a long time ago. They must have built up some immunity by this point with all of the Westernized humans in the region.

        • Todd Neiss:

          What?

          How, pray tell, would they contract common & infectious human diseases (whether airborne or bacterial) by AVOIDING contact with Homo sapiens sapiens, practically at all costs?

          Of course, if sasquatch doesn’t exist as you are implying, none of this conversation means a thing. My point is: I believe (but do not know) that multiple (possibly even dozens) of kills have taken place already, both in Canada and in the U.S. If this is true, then how will one or two more kills help in any way? Answer: They won’t help if sasquatch exists, and if sasquatch doesn’t exist then everything reported over the past 50 years or so (including the ongoing DNA analyses) is entire hoaxed.

          And by the way, if they (miraculously and against all odds) DO exist, then why would you compare them to the Dodo Bird, Tasmanian Tiger, or the Passenger Pigeon? These extinct creatures ARE truly “animals” and were quite easy to study, in fact. Still, we below it totally in these cases, and in fact several other cases of extant, living creatures. More recently, too, we totally blew it with the Ivory Billed Woodpecker. Why? Because we are not serious researchers by nature; we are a violent and arrogant breed: Modern Humans. We go out of our way to kill each other, too. So much for your definition of human “recklessness”, as you insinuate I am.

          If sasquatch as a new species or subspecies actually exists (and I’m 97% or better certain they do), they cannot be studied as you suggest as “any ordinary animal” like the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, the last of which stood by and watched their last nesting site being cut down by loggers with (as I recall) Georgia-Pacific or some such wood harvesting organization.

          This is because sasquatch is either partially, nearly, or wholly “human.” For lack of more exact knowledge of how “human” they are, I’m pretty sure that they are more human than Neanderthal or Denisovan were. Today, now that the DNA experts have finally weighed in, it turns out that most humans on the planet have Neanderthal genetics mixed in with (e.g.) Europeans and Asians to the tune of some 1 to 5%. The DNA found in the Denisovan samples are now, today, part of the genetic make-up of today’s Melanesians.

          As such, good sir, these so-called “separate species” are really also human, because: They could successfully produce offspring with ordinary humans (at the time), and furthermore these offspring were viable. Accordingly, all super-Saharan races of humans are, in part, either Denisovan or Neanderthal, or both.

          Ditto with sasquatch. They are likely partly “us” and we are, in turn, partly “them”. We are all humans of sorts, regardless of how hairy one “subspecies” is vs. the other. If they (the sasquatch, pl.) survived, and I believe they have, in remnant but widespread pockets, they didn’t survive by allowing themselves to be studied, as you put it, like any other mortal animal. They did so because they are at least as smart as we are — and in a real sense, probably smarter.

          “Smart” here doesn’t imply only left-brained knowledge that IQ tests pick up.

          Richard

        • OK, Bob, fair enough. But I thought you said you are sure we already have a kill; a double-kill in fact that the two of us personally investigated in the region it was reported to have occurred, by Justin Smeja?

          Won’t these particular bodies, or even body parts, do just fine? How did they know that the juvenile weighed “80 lbs” if they didn’t take it home and weigh it?

          Or: Is this episode going to be covered up, yet again, by “the men in black” or their cousins?

          Like all the other stories of kills, some of which are likely true?

          Do you still think we need “one more”?

          Richard

        • Well, I am hoping that maybe these body(s) or part(s) of them can be used in some way to try to add proof that these things exist. If they don’t prove it, then we still need a body.

          There are people out there trying to shoot them anyway, and some day someone is going to get one. Or they will just continue to be shot anyway like they do on a pretty regular basis. So until we really do prove they exist, people are just going to keep on killing them from time to time. So it’s all sort of a moot question until we actually have a body in our hands that’s being examined by the authorities and media and whatnot.

          Hopefully at some point they are proven well enough that we can put some laws in reduce the killings of them.

        • In theory, at least, I agree with your “take”, above.

          With one exception: “the authorities”. I do not believe these authorities are at all interested in helping us “prove that the species or subspecies” exist at all. In fact, they will do everything in their power to cover a killing up.

          They simply don’t want to deal with it. The “protection” of the sasquatch will make the spotted owl look like a minor irritation by comparison.

          We can prove this without an additional kill. Trust me on this one. Help us get to sufficient DNA proof (read: nuclear DNA) and we WILL get there, sir.

          The quicker we get one or two or three studies on the DNA done (including Melba’s), the quicker we can get the job done and FORCE “the authorities” to own up to their obligations.

          Further, we are getting closer to letting the important “green” organization in on the bandwagon. Especially the NRDC (the Natural Resources Defense Council)); they are extremely effective in getting the job done, more so than any other environmental organization.

          Do you think we have enough “proof” yet to go to the NRDC for help? DNA (97% certain even without Melba’s data); the Erickson documentary; and likely others that may be just as good? Other DNA studies, as mention in the foregoing?

          Or do we have to wait until the European study is underway, or concluded?

          Richard

        • Todd Neiss

          RICHARD: OK, Todd (Neiss), have at it. You should also kill or capture several creatures…
          TODD: Kill or captures “Several creatures?” Don’t be absurd Richard (Stubstad). I said nothing of the sort. What I specifically stated was. “The collection of a single creature (dead or alive) as well as long-term field observation is the only way to make such claims and ultimately ensure the perpetuation of the species.” I stand by that statement. If we were discussing a rare bird or frog, you wouldn’t hesitate supporting the collection of a specimen. Your problem, like so many others, is that you have personified these animals to the point of fantasy and legend. Much more exciting than the truth.
          My argument was that you have absolutely no basis for your contention that, “They are just fine…”
          What you BELIEVE has nothing to do with REALITY without scientific substantiation.
          Tell me Richard…
          What is their population?
          What is their average life span?
          What is their gestation period?
          How often do they mate?
          How many offspring do they average?
          What is the minimum range for a single animal?
          What is their average daily caloric intake?
          Are there specific nutrients they require to survive?
          If you don’t KNOW such basic data of these (or any) animals, then you have no idea if “they are just fine…” That makes it RECKLESS and IGNORANT to assume otherwise.
          Back it up Richard. You can’t.
          RICHARD: “…by the way, since there appears to be a VERY wide biodiversity involved here (based on DNA evidence)…”
          TODD: You haven’t substantiated any such thing Richard. Words are all we have heard from you.
          Back it up Richard. You can’t.
          RICHARD: “By the way, how would we find out whether these creatures are susceptible to homo sapiens sapiens diseases by killing or capturing one (or more)?
          TODD: How do you know whether we are susceptible to Bigfoot diseases? Better question…How do you know whether or not Bigfoot(s) have certain enzymes in their blood which may hold the cure for cancer, MS, or AIDS?
          RICHARD: It took us a couple hundred years to figure that out with the Native Americans, as we now call the American Indians. What makes you think we’ll be any better at figuring it out with sasquatch?
          TODD: Hmm…I’ll step out on a limb and say a couple of hundred years of technological advances in immunology.
          RICHARD: In my view (of course it’s an opinion, not fact), the only way we will be able to do the “field study” part of your idea is to somehow assure these creatures that we mean them no harm; we only want to study them — albeit at a distance.
          TODD: That is exactly what I have been advocating all along: long-term, benign, habituation-based observation. I specifically stated, “…long-term field observation is the only way to make such claims and ultimately ensure the perpetuation of the species.” All you heard was “KILL BIGFOOT!”
          For the record, I do not encourage the wanton taking of one of these creatures (and certainly not for sport). I stated that “the collection of a specimen” is key to definitively establishing their existence and bringing them the well-deserved attention by the scientific community they deserve. In turn that will bring them protection…should they require it. My preference is that, such a specimen, come by way of the discovery of a carcass that had died of natural causes.
          Something tells me you would be against that as well. Some people just prefer the romantic notion of perpetuating a legend than getting to the truth.
          RICHARD: In fact, according to some reports, several have already been killed — this is in fact very likely true. Well, sir, where are these bodies & DNA analysis etc. for “scientific purposes”? Think about it. The bodies somehow “disappear” or are buried surreptitiously by various “factions” who do not want the rest of us to know the truth.
          TODD: Seriously Richard? Just who are these mysterious “factions” who “who do not want the rest of us to know the truth.” And better yet…why? Anyone who obtained a Bigfoot body (“surreptitiously” or otherwise) would be a fool if they did not cash in on the obvious fame and fortune that would come with such a discovery. You think about it Richard. Wild conspiracy theories only serve to show the desperation of your arguments.
          Back it up Richard. You can’t.
          RICHARD: How, pray tell, would they contract common & infectious human diseases (whether airborne or bacterial) by AVOIDING contact with Homo sapiens sapiens, practically at all costs?
          TODD: Are you seriously suggesting that this species (as a whole) collectively have concluded that we, not only carry “infectious human diseases”, but somehow are cognizant that they are not immune to them? For real? Wow!
          Back it up Richard. You can’t.
          RICHARD: Of course, if sasquatch doesn’t exist as you are implying, none of this conversation means a thing.
          TODD: Time out Richard! The LAST thing that I would ever imply is that “sasquatch doesn’t exist.” Apparently you don’t know anything about me or my encounter of three of these creatures in 1993. I have been very public about it and it has been well publicized.
          RICHARD: My point is: …how will one or two more kills help in any way? Answer: They won’t help if sasquatch exists…
          TODD: Uhhh…you lost me there Richard.
          Better question: How could the mainstream scientific community (or those mysterious factions) continue to ignore the existence of sasquatch if a body is produced?
          RICHARD: And by the way, if they (miraculously and against all odds) DO exist, then why would you compare them to the Dodo Bird, Tasmanian Tiger, or the Passenger Pigeon? These extinct creatures ARE truly “animals” and were quite easy to study, in fact. Still, we below it totally in these cases, and in fact several other cases of extant, living creatures.
          TODD: You are making my case for me Richard. Even when formerly common animals were available for study, IGNORANCE and RECKLESSNESS led to their demise. That is precisely why I am advocating that we employ logic-based KNOWLEDGE and THOUGHTFULNESS when dealing with these animals.
          RICHARD: More recently, too, we totally blew it with the Ivory Billed Woodpecker. Why? Because we are not serious researchers by nature; we are a violent and arrogant breed: Modern Humans. We go out of our way to kill each other, too.
          TODD: I love that argument. MANKIND IS EVIL!
          Seriously Richard?
          And I suppose you are THE exception right?
          NEWSFLASH: Animals kill each other. OMG!
          ROBERT: If sasquatch as a new species or subspecies actually…they cannot be studied as you suggest as “any ordinary animal” like the Ivory Billed Woodpecker, the last of which stood by and watched their last nesting site being cut down by loggers with (as I recall) Georgia-Pacific or some such wood harvesting organization.
          TODD: Actually, the Ivory-Billed Woodpecker has been “re-discovered” in the past 5 years in Arkansas.
          RICHARD: This is because sasquatch is either partially, nearly, or wholly “human.”
          TODD: Back it up Richard. You can’t.
          RICHARD: As such, good sir, these so-called “separate species” are really also human, because: They could successfully produce offspring with ordinary humans (at the time), and furthermore these offspring were viable. Ditto with sasquatch.
          TODD: Back it up Richard. You can’t.
          RICHARD: If they (the sasquatch, pl.) survived…they didn’t survive by allowing themselves to be studied, as you put it, like any other mortal animal…
          TODD: Are you now suggesting they are immortal?
          RICHARD: …they did so because they are at least as smart as we are — and in a real sense, probably smarter.
          TODD: Back it up Richard. You can’t.
          You see, good sir, every time you make unsubstantiated claims (i.e. “they are just fine”…”there appears to be a VERY wide biodiversity involved here”…”The bodies somehow ‘disappear’ or are buried surreptitiously by various “factions” who do not want the rest of us to know the truth”…or they avoid humans in order to not become infected by diseases…”sasquatch is either partially, nearly, or wholly ‘human’”…”these so-called “separate species” are really also human, because: They could successfully produce offspring with ordinary humans (at the time), and furthermore these offspring were viable”…”they are at least as smart as we are — and in a real sense, probably smarter”), YOU are being ignorant and reckless.
          Unless you choose to deal with the FACTS, instead of wild conjecture and conspiracy theories, you are contributing to the problem instead of the solution sir.

        • Todd Neiss

          “Hogwash?”

          That’s all you can say Richard?

          How about refuting my points.

          Oh that’s right…you can’t.

          How pathetic.

        • Of course I can refute your points. But you just don’t listen; you only talk, talk, talk.

          It’s just not worth it, Todd. I have better things to do in my old age than discuss the dozens and dozens of issues you bring up, ad-infinitum.

          OK, if not hogwash, then poppycock.

          Richard

        • Todd Neiss

          TODD: “Hogwash?” That’s all you can say Richard? How about refuting my points. Oh that’s right…you can’t. How pathetic.

          ROBERT: Of course I can refute your points. But you just don’t listen; you only talk, talk, talk. It’s just not worth it, Todd. I have better things to do in my old age than discuss the dozens and dozens of issues you bring up, ad-infinitum. OK, if not hogwash, then poppycock.
          =============================
          Once again Robert, I must call your bluff. As anyone can plainly see, the “dozens of dozens of issues” that you refuse to address are not just “talk, talk, talk” as you claim, but rather are DIRECT questions based on YOUR qoutes. You see Robert, that is precisely why I quote you (and others like you), as it forces you to back up whay YOU say Robert…not me.

          And once again, the best you can muster is, “Poppycock?” Wow!

          Try again Mr. Stubstad.
          SSG Todd M. Neiss

      • apehuman

        Todd, I refer you to some of the books (albeit not peer-reviewed) that contain some of the more widely accepted “facts” (again some things match across all incoming data, some don’t) known to those in the field or who have spent serious time reviewing existing evidence. I started to list some, but in doing so it might be viewed as an endorsement of one over the other..so, go to a site like http://www.bigfootencounters.com and link to that recommended list, as well as articles on this subject and related anthropology.
        Here’s the thing Todd, there is little cost to you to argue or deny, it’s the status quo of our society. The challenge here is to actually look hard at existing evidence and entertain, even if a bit unsettling, the idea that we aren’t the only bi-pedal, intelligent, omnivore with hands out there. Trustworthy information is there Todd. You can accept your limited information or you can go look. I chose to go look in the field, then I went to the books and websites. .
        This blog is not the place to get the information you need to educate yourself on this subject..

        • Todd Neiss

          While I appreciate your book referrals written by “those in the field or who have spent serious time reviewing existing evidences,” you should note that not only have I “spent serious time” researching (for 18+ years now), but know many of these authors on a first name basis and appear in at least seven of their books [reference: California's Sasquatch\Bigfoot - Tom Morris (1994); Bigfoot Phenomenon Anecdotal Reports - North American Science Institute (1997);North America's Greatest Ape: The Sasquatch - Dr. John Bindernagel (1997); The Great Sasquatch Conspiracy - J. Hector Beelart (1998); The Locals - Thom Powell (2003); Meet The Sasquatch - Chris Murphy, John Green & Thomas Steenberg (2004); Bigfoot...The True Story of Apes in America - Loren Coleman (2004)].
          As for visiting the “Bigfoot Encounters” website, once again, my 1993 encounter and subsequent research is mentioned numerous times throughout Bobbie Short’s website. Simply enter my name “Todd Neiss” in the search engine. Or better yet, enter it in GOOGLE and you will find plenty of information regarding my extensive research. For the record, I have conducted eight major expeditions and over a dozen investigations (in the company of such notables as: Peter Byrne, Ron Morehead, Dr. Richard Greenwell, Fred Bradshaw, Joe Beelart, Larry Lund, Ray Crowe, etc.). My work has been featured in 19 documentaries (Unsolved Mysteries, Discovery Channel, National Geographic, The Travel Channel, Encounters, etc.) with two more currently in production. I frequently am invited as a guest speaker to lecture on the subject across the US and Canada. The very fact that you suggest that I might find it “a bit unsettling” that these creatures exist, tells me you know nothing of my well-publicized encounter in 1993 and the fact that I have actually seen them.
          With all due respect, before you decide to advise people to read books, visit websites and “educate themselves,” you might want to educate yourself on just whom you are addressing sir. I find your admonishment to be patronizing and frankly insulting.

  78. PS: The above response was to a post by Victor Oropeza, which ended up less than half-way down this thread. Somehow my post ended up at the bottom of the thread.

    • apehuman

      i think if you have a good personal contact with a significant player for the NRDC, or alternatively a very good letter of recommendation, you could possibly find an open ear. it would be ideal to have in hand a compelling body of work, extrinsic evidence. What is that?

      From the PG film to the most recent youtube – BFers have done a good job of ensuring all the evidence is pretty much soiled in some way or other. It is a problem when some decent evidence is presented in tabloid form with obvious factual errors..and that stuff is rampant.

      Will you take actual casts? Flirs? etc….right now what is most persuasive is the weight of the evidence…but getting someone to accept a 19″ footprint isn”t faked or modern human is really, really tough.

      So what do you use? Just your DNA? Or the old school stuff….not one peer-review paper. A conference paper on footprints for taxonomic designation, a much relied on article defining Sasquatch hair (I see challenged by current sample providers), .the PG film? (see MK Davis…and J Green suddenly “finds” his full copy and gives to Munns.see BFF)…..see it all stinks Richard..all of it some how or other. Not a purist in the whole lot..and if they are we just don’t have their data…or they are waiting, ala EP….

      I am not trying to be difficult.. I am just sincerely asking…just what does one use for this argument….in addition to the DNA samples…..do you have specific documentation of SAS activity with your samples…

      Today I feel extremely concerned, my research area is burned…80,000acre fire….a unique riparian area and i actually had thoughts perhaps it was prescribed BF burn b/c the site is known to Gov……official cause is lightening….

      Stubstad is right about the Sasquatch problem..from mining, to ranchers to rec users of the forest..and logging…. it won’t be pretty to deal with…not to mention a whole host of racial issues….

      Do you hand them a copy of Tribal Bigfoot? or DVD Sasquatch The Quest? Or a hulu account for Finding Bigfoot?

      So, I give up in some regards wrt respect to humans….this “myth engineering” apparently going on now for 50 years….Robert Lyle Laverty do you feel you made the right choices for us all? How about the rest of you in positions of knowing, just doing your jobs? Just because we have always done it that way.. really, don’t think, just do as you are told…?. Could it possibly be true…Men in Black?

      The FS must go thru Forest Management Planning..is in process..well may closer to end actually (lost track) but is a ten year plan… why not just bust through the doors of a regional public/FS planing meeting and force your comments to be on public record in the process?

      The single most important thing about legal proceedings..they must be on the record…even ex-parte…that record means everything.

      How about, again, Gosh I am a Pollyanna…a group of cooperative BFers put together a Forest Service recommendation for management consideration of BFs and officially file it? Maybe get it in the Federal Register….

      • apehuman

        It is more probable that the fire was started by lightening as this forest is quite dry and that is end of the monsoon season and poor FS fire management over decades leaves many US forests vulnerable. But it is telling that thoughts such as these are just below the surface, something is not right in Bigfoot land…it just doesn’t make sense someone like me can go out and gather so much data (and others do it to) and absolutely no one will even listen..anywhere. I am sure my government is quite capable of collecting more data than I and have..if not the only other logical conclusion is they are or limited intellectual ability….

        Laverty is either a thick headed Neanderthal (intended joke) or he deceives us all…he can’t have an in between here. He either so lacks curiosity (and his Forestry degree a joke) and never thought again about the PG event or the photos he took (or the years of follow up sightings)…or he did and isn’t telling. Am I off base here?

  79. Skylar

    So how much longer before this drama plays out?….The longer this goes on the more likely it is that the Erickson project and Dr Ketchum over promised, inflated evidence and made claims they cant substanciate and now everyone involved is in over their heads and searching for a way to save face and get out..

  80. Well, nothing has changed in terms of the evidence I have seen (pre-Sept. 2010 and the work that Erickson has done.

    Meanwhile, we have ZERO control over what Melba Ketchum is up to. No one knows.

    So we have launched into a “parallel” DNA project, which will begin in November. Whether Ketchum succeeds or not will not matter, because we’ll get the job done right, not “exclusively” or with financial interests at stake.

    I don’t know how long after November it will take; I am not entirely familiar with European labs. It may well be they are no quicker than Ketchum is; but they will be quicker in getting through peer review etc.

    Richard

  81. uncle tancred

    Thanks for your efforts in this Richard. It will either force Dr. Ketchum’s hand, or reinforce her results…both good.

  82. panpan

    The most clever animals are the ones that have avoided being caught by man! There is no evidence to suggest that a great ape couldnt hide under our noses.The American continent can support a great ape due to diverse foods that support wildlife.Florida is a good example due to hurricanes that have released great apes into the everglades that have been proven to thrive in such enviroments.People who keep an open mind for the unknown are truely intelligent in my oppinion.

  83. panpan

    The statement of an ape waving its arms around is unlikely. Thats clearly a human body language. A more likely reaction by a sasquatch would be to hide,throw objects or to vocaly aware the person of its pressance.The statement of cornering the animal is also unlikely due to the fact of strong self preservation skills.This could happen though if it was locked in an enclosed premiter with fencing or walls higher than eight feet.If this animal is of ape orgin it could easily escape those boundries due to its incredable arm length and muciling of the back and shoulders.Ive studied sasquatch in the Ozark mountain range and have witnesed a large femail yank bob wire out of trees to clear a path for her young.Its inpossable to corner one and if you did you would have to be super man or a trex!!!

  84. Skylar

    So…I dont assume you had a camera handy when you saw this :female” Sasquatch yank barbed wire out of trees :)

  85. panpan

    no unfortunanly i didnt it was my first experiance and before the sighting i was a skeptic. I have an addiction to rocks and was walking down a gravel road behind our property to an area where odd river rocks were found not by any water source.I could smell her before i saw her and thaught it was something dead in the woods.The problem with that thaught though was there was no buzzards flying around.I saw movement to my left on the trail.About thirty feet to fifty feet ahead i saw something crouched down behind a smaller follen down citar tree.I moved closer to get a better look then in an incredable burst of energy she darted in one stride across the trail grabbed this bob wire fence yanked the staples right out of the tree and snapping the bob wire in two like a twig and ran into the woods.As soon as she was out of sight a smaller one darted through the new opening.I

  86. panpan

    I couldnt find any hair but took pictures of foot prints theres also large game trails around here where i assume they travel regularly.I know this because the trees are broken to high up for deer and theres layers of foot prints all up and down them.I dont follow these trails because im afraid my sent will ward them away.Also im femail and the thaught of encountering a male sasquatch scares the crap out of me if ya get my drift lol.

  87. Maurice Cloud

    Cheers Gentlemen! Hmmm . . . Robert, while a type specimen is always the preferred method of establishing an address in a rank based biological classification it is not always the only way. Tempting to think that, sans body, DNA can do little more than fix a relative genomic relationship, but it is possible, bloody difficult, but possible, to combine DNA with compelling external factors to crack the taxonomical door. If what we are hearing to this point is correct — that bigfoot is Homo and we’re working on the detailing, species, even(gadzooks!) subspecies — then Richard’s suppositions are comfortably within the boundaries of possibility. The lab in Europe that Richard will be delivering material to is absolutely top-shelf, and if we assume that Dr. Ketchum is being/has been put through her paces by an equally demanding institution, the combined results will substantially boost efforts to answer questions of compatible/non-compatible immune systems, interior lives, etc . . ., as well as engendering whole new bunches of questions. That’s the really good news. The really bad news is the How. It won’t be all altruistic anthropologists and David Attenborough’s who want in the pursuit then. And that makes me, for one, quite nervous . . .

    • Todd Neiss

      Robert,

      Once again, the issues I raised were neither new nor my own, but were based specifically on topics YOU raised (hence why I quoted you). I was merely requesting that you either substantiate your claims or preface them as supositions or theories. It is obvious that you have no intention of doing either, so I will no longer waste my time, or that of your audience.

      I am not sure what the point of your PSA comment was. Is that your PSA reading? Doesn’t sound good.

      Your moral/ethical aversion to the collection of a solitary specimen (via capture or culling), while seemingly noble, may well carry the unintended consequence of dooming this unique species. Again I would suggest that if we were discussing a rare butterfly or frog, that you would have no reservations of collecting a specimen. It’s the difference between situational ethics and responsible science. To label those who espouse the latter as being “violent and arrogant” is unfair and insulting.

      The very essence of species preservation must be first and foremost predicated on their verified existence; and secondly on the validation of their condition as a species (population, desemination, habitat, resources, genetic diversity, etc.). It is impossible to establish either wihtout tangible, forensic evidence (i.e. the collection of a specimen…dead or alive). Let me state emphatically, my preference is that a body be discovered that died of natural causes.

      Sadly there are those who tend to personify these creatures and find some sort of romance in the notion in perpetuating a legend than discovering the truth. One such example is the post by “Citizentruth” on 22 October: “…as much as I would like to see Sasquatch discovered, a part of me prays it never happens.”

      Let’s be perfectly honest here: NO SPECIES HAS EVER BEEN RECOGNIZED OR PROTECTED WITHOUT ESTABLISHING THEIR EXISTENCE AND CONDITION. To suggest otherwise is absurd.

      • Todd:

        It wasn’t Robert who wrote that response, it was me, Richard (Stubstad).

        While I think you underestimate the power of DNA testing, which has only become “viable” over the past 10 or maybe 15 years, max., I wish you good luck on your endeavors.

        My only caveat is: Don’t turn the body or capture into any “authorities”. It may well disappear–miraculously, if you will.

        Richard

  88. Maurice Cloud

    Steady on Todd. Have a looksee at the above post . . . Cheers!

  89. uncle tancred

    Check out Benjamin Radford’s comments on 10 reasons why Bigfoot is a Bust on Cryptomundo today. Professional skeptics like him have rejected this and all evidence before it is even presented. Many of his arguments, like a Creationists, have been dismantled years ago, but like a Creationist, he and others like him, continue to make them, because the uninformed public at large consider them cogent, and reasonable and will until they get their corpse…

  90. Sorry, Todd, with my off-handed “hogwash” and “poppycock” remarks. I respect your opinions etc. but I simply cannot enter a never-ending debate with you about all the issues you bring up. If you are an older gentlemen, then how does a PSA reading of 532 (2 weeks ago) sound? That’s 532, not the typical 5.32.

    Anyway, the only thing I can add here is that I have seen three complete mitochondrial sequences from purported sasquatch (pl.) that for various reasons I am at least 97% certain are ALL from sasquatch (pl.), from widely separated geographical locations within North America.

    The chart shown at the bottom of Pg. 4 of my 3rd article, “DNA Research Update—September 2011″ link from:

    http://www.ScienceAliveNews.com

    will tell you why I believe that the sasquatch is “highly variable, haplotype-wise”. For samples 1 and 2, they were both related to a relatively old Haplotype H* from sub-glacial Europe between 10,000 and 30,000 years ago; while for Sample 3, it was distantly related to Haplotype L1a2 from at least 40,000 years ago; probably more.

    You may choose to believe that these data are “garbage”, but I can assure you they are NOT. Also, there is but a very slim chance, based on all evidence combined, they are real sasquatch (pl.) that they are random errors or hoaxes. This conclusion is not only based on the mitoDNA data shown, but on some nuclear DNA data (unpublished as of yet), circumstantial but highly credible evidence from the field (all three locations), and further work by Ketchum on these very three samples on the nuclear side I am not privy to.

    There is every indication that Ketchum is on to something with these three samples, as well as a dozen or two other viable sasquatch samples, otherwise she would not have already submitted a peer-review paper to the Journal NATURE (still in peer review).

    If the above is true, sir, then: 1) sasquatch exists (as you believe to be the case); 2) sasquatch is at least partly human, in particular on the female side based on the results of three out of three mtDNA samples; 3) sasquatch is as widely divergent, DNA-wise, as modern humans (see chart mentioned above); and 4) more than a single type specimen would be needed to physically and genetically identify all (at least two; probably more) widely divergent haplotypes of sasquatch (pl.).

    And yes, Homo sapiens sapiens are a very violent and extremely arrogant species or subspecies. All you have to do is look at the headlines on Pg. 1 of ever single Newspaper in the world to see that!

    I have basically the same genetic make-up as you do, Todd, and the rest of humanity does as well, so — of course — my tendency towards violence and arrogance as a “superior race” is certainly there. Maybe that’s why, for a change, I am taking the side of the VERY silent minority — the sasquatch. Sorry, but I’m against unnecessary killing as a moral and ethical stance, with few exceptions (eg. food, clothing, medical research, and to deal with the likes of Adolph Hitler or Osama bin Laden after all else fails). For me, even the food part doesn’t entirely apply; I am a vegetarian (so was Hitler!), but the fish-eating kind, called a “pescatarian” I believe.

    Anyway, due to the pressing issues of a parallel DNA study to be conducted in Europe, my own job as a Civil Engineer, my family, and last but not least my dwindling health, this has to be the last lengthy entry on the discussion that became too far removed from my only emphasis at this time: Sasquatch DNA.

    Richard Stubstad

  91. citizentruth

    I don’t wish to see any Sasquatch killed,let alone wiped from the face of the earth.
    Humans are violent creatures and as much as I would like to see Sasquatch discovered,a part of me prays it never happens.I’m truly worried for these creatures of the forest.
    I have never seen one but I swear I have smelled them.It was during a delivery to a remote site in North Western Alberta.I was about 100 kms. in the bush driving on a winding dirt road.
    I came to a short straight stretch with trees on one side of me and a clearing with trees farther back on the other side.The early morning was fairly warm so I had my window down.
    The smell that hit me reminded me of a cattle feed lot.A strong smell of urine,dung and dirty animals.It’s the only way I know how to describe it.
    The smell lasted for at least one kilometer.
    It occurred to me on my way back that there are no cattle ranches or horses,in fact,not a single home.It’s all oil & gas sites.
    Sorry for the off topic,I needed to get that off my chest.
    I can’t say it was Bigfoot but I can’t think of a reasonable alternative explanation.
    CT

  92. Gary B

    It appears that Richard Stubstad has taken his ball and gone home. I hope at some point we are allowed to see some of the evidence he alludes to but the fact remains that all we have really seen are stories. Most of what passes for bigfoot evidence is simply part of one giant anecdote and yes, we need a body for verify it as a species. That a naturally deceased example or, part of one, has never been found is just impossible. On these very pages we have reports of sightings, the shooting of two creatures, habituation sites, dna tests, alleged clear photographic evidence and yet still no biological specimen. Instead, we have a set of pre-conditions that seem to be a way of disguising why no evidence exists and more and more stories that seem like apollogies for the sad state of the ambiguous ‘evidence’ that we do have. I find it hard to read Mr. Stubstad’s intentions but he is offering only more stories and vague reasons involving non-disclosure agreements for not providing more. The bigfoot world seems to be groups of proponents who agree on the existence of bigfoot/sasquatch but like the infighting with each other more than anything. I actually think that some of them have given up the belief but the practiced thrust and parry duels have become a part of life.

  93. Maurice Cloud

    Gary, since your faculties appear to have stultified allow me to administer the ammonia you are in need of . . . Richard has a terminal illness and has chosen to focus what energy and time remains to him on the development of his parallel DNA study — the corpus of which he will be delivering to a lab in Europe in a week or two. Said study is the culmination of a great deal of determined and dedicated effort not only by Richard but by those who have chosen him to entrust their field samples to. That they have done so speaks volumes to the man’s character. The callous and dismissive tone of your post reveals your ignorance of this simple fact. Perhaps you would care to scroll up to and read again Richard’s Oct. 22cd post. Should you do so and still fail to comprehend his intent and meaning, well, you are in need of more remedial assistance than what I can offer . . .

  94. apehuman

    http://bigfootevidence.blogspot.com/2011/10/july-2011-bigfoot-shooting-incident-at.html?showComment=1319673066816#c815323662471908816

    Seems Bigfoot shootings are a regular past time….
    This groups incident is important for another reason too…this “BF Group” has voted to “allow” those members who choose to seek a “specimen voucher”….or kill a Bigfoot.

    normally I wouldn’t end after such a tender post or off topic (I can’t recall which thread is which) but I thought this might give Gary something to consider…

    and contrast with the no-kill position of Stubstad. DNA and subtle evidence such as digital media should be enough…to begin a program to fund study and protect… I personally would be sad to see a specimen voucher held in a museum…

    Clearly the few here aren’t the only “believers.” The BF Researcher’s world is more deep than I imagined…. through the decades of past enthusiasts and the growing numbers today…. it is a bit dizzying and unfortunately, little rising to peer-review standards, but then do you really need that? Go look at least at the growing body of rather credible evidence.and allow yourself to consider that most of these BFers believe sincerely in their efforts, enough to risk pedestrian comments..

  95. Gary B

    I meant no dis-respect to Mr. Stubstad’s health and I hope things improve for him and thanks to Maurice Cloud for the heads up in that regard. I do still think, and as gently as I can put this, have a big problem with what passes for evidence in all of the bigfoot legend. Again, gently, the dna study that Mr. Stubstad has undertaken may be well intentioned but, in my opinion, ther is no provenance or chain of custody for the samples he is using and I have argued that position with him in this forum previously. Any one of us could send him a sample from anywhere and call bigfoot and that is what I suspect is the case here. Apehuman points out that the bigfoot world seems deeper than he imagined and that may be so but I think that it is also possible that we are at perhaps different points in our inspection of it. Robert Lindsay has stated in other posts that there are 40,000 bigfoot sightings, and, if that is so do you not find the complete lack of biological evidence more than suspect? I have looked at what is called ‘the growing body’ of evidence and find it pretty much the same as when I started. A prima facie example for me is the BFRO. They have been in existence since 1995 and have been sponsoring weekend and longer expeditions to search for bigfoot for at least six years and have produced nothing. I am at a loss to explain the the current interest in bigfoot but I suspect that the tv show Finding Bigfoot (they haven’t) and the general spate of paranormal shows on television is part of it. I hope this clarifies my position and, again, bes wishes to Richard Stustad.

    • Suffice it to say that the samples we have received and are receiving are very well vetted, even prior to submission to the lab.

      By now, we know quite a lot about sasquatch DNA, so any sample that “slips through the cracks” of vetting, so to speak, will be culled out by the DNA obtained.

      By now, sir, we know the differences between sasquatch and human and/or ape DNA quite well, thank you.

      Richard

  96. Gary B

    With all due respect, if you have samples that are vetted, that needs to be shown. You have said that they come from habituation sites, those sites should then be awash in bigfoot dna. The fact remains that, in 400 plus years as colonies and then United States, there is no testable biology for bigfoot. The proof for bigfoot is always around the corner, over the hill, just ahead, etc. and, I suspect, will always remain so.

    • Gary:

      OK, let me give you an example. We have a sasquatch researcher that has a tooth he himself removed (with permission) from an almost 10′ tall human or hominid skeleton. This is not a habituation site (only some samples are). He is the only person who has “handled” the tooth, and it was handled properly in terms of contamination, etc. So the chain of command has been one (person). This relic is likely several hundred years old, maybe more.

      It has now been sent to another member of our team who does some of the vetting. Having passed that step, it will be sent to me and taken to Europe ASAP (dates still not finalized). The tooth is either from a homo sapiens sapiens (American Indian) who was VERY tall indeed, or it is from a sasquatch. As I said before, by testing the DNA we already have a good idea of parts of the DNA sequencing that would eliminate either a “modern human” or a sasquatch. If it turns out to be a normal American Indian who had giganticism, so be it. We’ll find that out. If it turns out to be from a sasquatch, there are (as you may expect) significant differences in their DNA signatures, especially but not only on the nuclear side.

      Some of our habituation site samples are equally well-vetted, and have already been shown beyond a reasonable doubt to be from sasquatch–not a hoax or a “feral human” even.

      With all due respect, sir, you are simply incorrect. You assume that if a sample isn’t properly “vetted”, it is automatically NOT sasquatch. In fact, in some cases it IS sasquatch and in some cases it is a hoax or misidentification. We know the about some of the difference, in spite of what you may believe.

      Have you got a problem with this? Are you suggesting we just throw in the towel because you know better because you are so good a vetting?

      Give me a break. You may be very good at vetting yourself, and you may know exactly what to do to know a-priori whether or not your “vetted” specimens come from real, live sasquatch. If so, more power to you. Just get the tested–you may be right and you may be wrong. If you don’t get your specimens tested, you’ll never know for sure. Or: only you will know for sure, but you have no supporting evidence and you can simply state that your sample(s) are the real deal, but you don’t want them tested.

      I don’t know what your agenda is, sir, but the name of the game is not entirely in the vetting process. The proof of the pudding is in the eating, not the vetting.

      Richard

  97. Joerg Hensiek

    Sounds really great, Richard!
    A 10-feet tall sapiens ORr sasquatch?! wow..
    if sapiens then it will be the tallest human being ever recorded – so far the official record is 2,72 metres (10 feet are ca. 3,04 metres). And this “record individual” reached this height just due to illness and a genetic disorder.
    Cannot wait for the results of your study..

    • Just so you folks know: I meant “nearly 10 feet” because I could see from the photographs that it was LESS THAN 10′ but definitely more than 8.5′.

      The skeleton was not in very good shape, and was not “put together” neatly, probably due to its age, shifting ground, etc. The skeleton itself was re-buried as-is after a few samples and plenty of photos were taken.

      In other words, the height of the skeleton was not accurately determined; but it was VERY tall indeed. Also, it appeared to be thinner than typical sasquatch photos & drawings would indicate; looking a bit more like an excessively tall version of Wilt Chamberlain (who was 7′ 2″ as I recall), but at least a foot and a half taller than good ‘ol Wilt.

      The “build” of the skeleton is why I am unsure that it is actually a sasquatch.

      Has anyone heard of very tall but fairly lanky sasquatch, as opposed to the 500 – 800 lb versions we so often hear about?

      The skeleton is from well south of the Mason-Dixon line.

      Richard

  98. apehuman

    I am really pleased to hear about the tooth as it is fairly well known there are several skulls and skeletons in excess of 7′, some associated with the Mound Cultures of the Midwest, and the skulls I believe are in a Utah museum? At any rate, the native traditions of a large race that were integrated in the distant past are pretty common and this may resolve that. This is exciting news!
    On the 10′ argument: the most commonly reported size by eyewitnesses of a Sasquatch is just about 7-8′ (see http://www.bigfootencounters.com for biological articles…entertain the data and then decide) feet and a weight estimated around 500 lbs. Although the more sensational accounts of 10′ and 12′ tall Sasquatches are memorable, those reports appear to be on the extreme end of height range. Humans range from about 4′ to just about 7’5″ … compare a Pygmy to Shaq…
    None of the claims here are surprising in light of eyewitness accounts.

  99. uncle tancred

    Also a cryptic report of a large, simian looking skull and other bones unearthed in Texas some years ago, if I’m remembering correctly. Anyone heard about that one?

  100. apehuman

    Are you wanting specific citations to eyewitness accounts or general validation? yes,more than one witness has described a Bigfoot as lean.
    So, certainly within the range of reports

  101. Dee

    I seriously doubt that the bigfoot creatures were killed.Is there any proof that they actually were?Many claims have been made that down through the years that several bigfoot creatures have been killed but if that is the case,what happened to the bodies and why weren’t they presented for examination?

    The many shooting cases that I’ve read where the creatures weren’t even phased by gunfire in the least seems to suggest that they can’t be killed and aren’t biological entities.

  102. Mike Oxbigg

    Hahaha one year after looking at this page….same stuff. “Almost, soon, blah blah blah”. I love how “there is indisputable proof!” And there is NEVER a clear photo or video…EVER! It amazes me that soooo many people see them ALL THE TIME….yet no one can ever get c picture or video….that is clear. For christs sake, you can zoon on a xell phone cam and get a great pic. And this Robert Lindsay fruit…….keep listening to his lies. All he does is sit at his pc all day, wack off to ape porn, and belive lies. So sad you guys take him seriously.

    If anyone said EVIDENCE WILL BE HERE SOON! Year after year, wig no results….I’d find him and beat him senseless for wasting my time.

    • Later days pal. You’re banned.

      Plenty of very clear videos out there. Patterson video is extremely clear. So is the Hoffman video. And we have lots of very, very clear photos too.

    • One more thing assbite. It’s isn’t one year later. Apparently you don’t even understand how to use a calendar. Let me help you out honey. It’s 6 months and one week later. 6 months isn’t a year. It’s half a year, moron.

    • So I am sitting here thinking to myself…What if Bigfoot is naturally blurry. I am thinking all of these “blobsquatch” photos may actually be perfectly clear photos of the world’s first blurry animal. Nothing more scary than a blurry monster. I’m not sayin’…I’m just sayin’… ;)

  103. jojo

    Hey Robert, I’ve read everything on this page from top to bottom and I’ve found it very interesting to see all of the various opinions and points being made……..but you seem very insecure…..hence your ban-happy demeanor. If there were one person banned on this page I would chooose you :)

  104. uncle tancred

    Mike: Greg is speaking facts. You are repeating the Kent Hovind tack of “proof”. If I didnt see a whale evolve from this land creature, then it didnt happen, and you cant proove it. Get your facts from those who spend their time doing real science, not from your minister or church publications

  105. uncle tancred

    Looks like Brian Sykes at Oxford, well known for his DNA work, is forcing Melba Ketchum’s hand. He is requesting samples to test so that he may produce a peer reviewed paper within a matter of months. We’ll see what comes of this.

  106. MD

    I have never went looking for one but I know that it would only take an idiot to trail me and watch where I am at 6:00 every evening to just plan whitsles and tree knocks and break hudge branches just to scare me and no human could ever smell like that with that much strength in aroma and it brought back memories of when I was a child in the back of a 500 acre farm when I was only about 7 or 8 you just can not make up sounds like that they do not come from our kind of humans. so I do believe without a doubt I have stood at my kitchen sink and heard a scream that I could hear inside my home and I live in town how freaky is that.I am a full believer seen too much heard to much can not be anything else.

  107. Bob

    I have hunted the forest giants for pushing 50 years. I encounter credible folks who have credible stories. Some with credible evidence. While I will not comment on the results of my years afield in this forum, I will say this. Many moons ago when I attended engineering school, we had a proffessor who asked how many truly embraced the thought of alien visitors from other planets. Approximately half the students did and half did not. He went on to say that he found it quite interesting to visualize how half of the students queried, thought that we as humans were the only game in this galaxy. A lecture followed on the staggering number of places intelligent life forms could potentially hail from. Bringing this thought into focus herewith. I have spent a great deal of my life in forests and jungles as a hunter. One needs only to spend time afield to recieve a lesson on what lives in the field. Then and only then will one BEGIN to realize that to frankly state that mankind knows all, is a grave mistake in judgement. I am no longer a young man and I am in awe and joy to learn each and everyday one thing I did not know the previous day. Simply put, if you are a non-believer, at the very least, try, just try to keep an open mind, you may surprise yourself on what you could learn. Last I looked, it’s a big planet and elephants can easily hide in a grass field. A thinking, cunning creature can amaze us all. A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

    • nominay

      “While I will not comment on the results of my years afield in this forum …”

      Why?
      What do you have to lose?
      It’s not like you’re young and trying to make a name for yourself.
      You’ve been in the woods for 50 years (hunting forest giants), and you don’t want to share your experiences? Why would you only want these experiences to yourself?
      It sure seems like secrecy is overrated sometimes!

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