Western Civilization: A Value Worth Saving

Repost from the old site.

Although I find it preposterous that White people themselves need to be saved from extinction, and cannot figure out any lawful way to so anyway, I think that White Nationalists (WN’s) like Jared Taylor do make some interesting points. Taylor, like most WN’s, is a hardcore conservative, but when he talks about saving White civilization, the values he credits White civilization with are positively liberal.

To be sure, I do disagree with the WN contention that Euro Whites created these liberal, free and humanitarian structures due to some unique endowment of their genes, though is it is an interesting argument. At the end of the day, it is not really falsifiable.

With US Whites at 65% and dropping, a White majority in the US is probably a defeated dream. But a non-White majority in the US need not be the disaster that WN’s see it as. Even at 65% White, we still have one of the largest economies on Earth. Further, I feel that US non-Whites for the most part assimilate to the basically White European values of US culture over time.

I agree that White Civilization, whether with Whites or without us, is worth saving and needs to be preserved.

Jared Taylor of American Renaissance makes some interesting points, and I would like to make some others. Taylor, either admittedly or not, credits nearly the entire liberal and Leftist structure of individual freedom, humanitarianism, democracy and equal rights to White Europeans.

In this it is fascinating that the Western Left and even Western liberals are so hostile to White European culture, often vilifying it as the worst on Earth, when the vast majority of their values stem directly from it.

Let us look at some of the achievements of White European culture, arguably beginning with the Renaissance, continuing to the Enlightenment, the French and American Revolutions, Napoleon, the Geneva Conventions of the rules of warfare, all the way to the Cultural Revolution of the 1960’s, with the radical egalitarian agenda of feminism, anti-racism, civil rights, pacifism, animal rights, gay rights, children’s rights, prisoner and suspect rights and the Green Movement.

Almost all of our entire edifice of liberal and Leftist rights, goals, and beliefs is derived from this Hegelian emancipation project in the West.

I do not mean to degrade the emancipatory projects undertaken elsewhere, especially in China under Mao. But I do think there is something worth saving here. I also think many humans, including many non-Whites, appreciate this project once they are exposed to it in the West. I doubt that they have a genetic aversion to it.

There is something appealing about the fight for emancipation, egalitarianism, basic fairness, checks and balances, and individual rights that probably appeals to most humans no matter the genetic background or personality. Freedom and fairness are like drugs that most folks want to get high on once they try them.

Let’s look at some of what might be worth saving even as US Whites decline into possible minority status all too soon:

1. Human rights. In the Geneva Conventions after World War 2, the notion of human rights in warfare was proposed by European Whites. Only European White nations have even tried to play by these rules. No one else even bothers.

2. Rule of law. I’m not sure anyone does democracy quite as well as European Whites, but I could be wrong. I am convinced that Asians value authoritarianism over freedom.

3. Environmentalism. As an example, only European Whites seem to have outlawed the very worst pesticides. These pesticides are now massacring US songbirds by the millions. As a birdwatcher, I have seen the decline with my very eyes.

Even Latin Americans like Chileans and Argentines have not outlawed the most deadly of pesticides. This is because Argentina never got a good European-type culture. All places colonized by Spain got Spain-wrecked, as the culture of Spain in all its brutality, hierarchy, corruption, collectivism of both right and left, religious superstition, feudalism, extreme racism, intolerance, violence and corruption got transplanted to all of its colonies.

To this day most places colonized by Spain are in bad shape, characterized by contempt for the land and the living things on it, casual brutality, extreme sexism, extreme racism, wild gaps between rich and poor, a collectivist mindset that veers between Communist-like and fascist-like, wild corruption and a general lack of democracy.

Spain and Portugal themselves have really come a long way, but it is still intriguing that they only got rid of fascism in 1980 and 1985. Their former colonies have not come so far. In Brazil, the environmental devastation is mind-boggling.

The fact that Spanish-colonized places ended up so backwards and reactionary and those colonized by other Europeans did not implies that there is nothing genetic about the progressive values that many Europeans laid the groundwork for. Instead, what we see here is the trailblazer called culture.

4. Nonhuman life. If you can find any other nationality besides European Whites who are not trying to exterminate every living thing that they cannot kill for food, grow for food, domesticate, or use in any other way, show me. Asians in particular seem highly contemptuous of and cruel towards non-utilitarian non-human life.

Put another way, it seems that European Whites are the only people who care anything about saving wild plants and wild animals that have no utilitarian values at all. It is true that Amerindians were pretty good to the land, but heavily-Indian nations of Latin America have devastated the land with ferocity.

5. Women’s rights. Women’s rights is a Western concept. In the rest of the world, the human norm of enforced patriarchy has been the honored tradition. Only in the West have women even approached something like equality, and even that is only in recent years.

6. Anti-racism. Human societies have always been racist, as ethnic nationalists go to great pains to point out. Indeed, it is probably true. Real anti-racism came out of the West, possibly beginning with Napoleon. After the tumults of the 1960’s, a political correctness characterized by extreme anti-racism has become the norm in the West, usually only wielded against Whites.

Casual experience with folks from the rest of the world shows that many display the casual racism that has probably been the norm for our species.

7. Anti-litter. It is true that the Asians have been pretty good at having nice and clean societies. But so have Europeans. One very negative thing about the latest tidal wave of Hispanic immigrants is that they are complete pigs – they casually throw garbage everywhere. It is the same in Latin America.

Africa is now a continent almost covered in garbage, at least in its cities. Indian cities seem to drowning in mountains of garbage, often left by the side of the road. Afghanistan is an unspeakably dirty country.

8. Ability to break up a state. I have suggested elsewhere that European Whites are probably right now the only people capable of breaking up states without starting horrible wars.

9. Prisoners’ and suspects’ rights. This seems to be limited to White Europeans. Elsewhere in the world, including Japan, confessions are regularly beaten out of prisoners. Inside jail or prison, prisoners have little to no rights at all.

To sum it up brutally, it seems that all of the hallmarks of the liberal society of the West that we cherish so much came straight from the minds of European Whites from the Enlightenment on. Most of the rest of the world seems to regard this stuff with either contempt or indifference. Our nation is in for some very heavy changes over the next few decades, many of them demographic.

The replacement of US European White culture with, say, NE Asian or Latin American culture, would be a grave error. If we save anything about this nation in the wake of these tumultuous ethnographic changes, let us save the White European Christian culture we developed here, with all its liberal trappings.

74 Comments

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74 responses to “Western Civilization: A Value Worth Saving

  1. FrankBD

    This is pretty much my opinion — liberalism as practice in America from 1932-65 is pretty much a white thing, despite how it helped minorities.

    Rob, have you ever written about: Is liberalism sustainable?
    Or would enough feminism (low birth rate), wealth transfer (give money to people who aren’t as good at handling it), sexual liberation (high disease and birth rates among the least skilled) and minority advancement out of proportion to skills, eventually ruin the underlying society?

  2. David

    Western-style libertarian egalitarianism (socio-cultural individualism in combination with economic/environmental collectivism) of the type developed in the past 50 years is in fact a drug that most people from other cultures can’t get enough of when they are exposed to it. Most non-Western cultures are just brutal as all fuck, and rape the shit out of those who aren’t very high up on the social hierarchy food chain, as well as the environment around them. Which isn’t to say this wasn’t the norm for all cultures (including the West) for the past few thousand years, just that the Westerners finally stumbled onto a (slightly) better formula rather recently.

    • Jet Li

      if United States were non racist completely, they wouldn’t have problems accepting actors or tv shows from countries of other cultures or races, don’t say that at least stuff from East Asia is of bad quality overall, quality is not the problem with accepting in a much bigger scale east asians stuff, is just because they are another race,also i resent every remake of east asian stories ,all lost opportunities to increase asian presence in the United States, they copy the story but reject the race, ok, the rest of the world instead of broadcasting tv shows from america should just copy the story and remake them, the day when american audiences don’t have a problem with watching foreigners ,that is the day when racism is defeated for good

      • Naruto Uzumaki

        and this is the last part of my rant: i understand if americans reject stuff from latin america, africa,india or middle east, but East Asia having such a huge economy,is guarantee of quality, of many things east asian has to offer ,you americans accept just 1 singer Psy, just 6 chinese films like Hero and just some japanese mangas or animes like Death note, that is very few and poor, i will post just a scene to show the amazing quality of japanese anime,both in animation and plot

        • coward

          Hey Naruto have you watched Bleach or Inuyasha? I watch them over and over again. I love the soundtracks. I listen to them during my weightlifting class, gets me pumped up. The Naruto OSTs are amazing, I can subtract a good minute from my running time with that, where my normal 6:30 gets cut down a min for the mile run. Music is amazing, imagine the infinite possibilities it can do. I also like that Naruto vs Neji fight for the Chunnin Exams. That gets my adrenaline going like crazy. I watch it in the locker room, and then I am pumped as hell. Thats the one and only thing the Acrobats have contributed to Western society, is anime.

        • coward

          PS i also went on that link to the debate, and it was hilarious. Right now I am trying not to get banned, so I will only post when sober, so I dont start looking for a fight. I apologize to you for calling you a fag earlier, and to Swedish shit for bashing Indians. Why is your avatar a girl if you are a guy?

        • coward

          Naruto, do you have the gay condition? I suggest some hardcore internet porn for a remedy. The Gay Condition is self-diagnosed and must be treated to enjoy a more fulfilling sex life. I also apologize for bashing the Acrobats. They are my favorite race, mainly because they dont hurt anyone. Ironically,my own race is my least favorite, because they hurt everybody. Thank god they dont have a 103 IQ, just imagine what they would do with it!

        • Naruto Uzumaki

          she is Rei Hino from Sailor Moon, my favorite character from Sailor Moon (with the exception maybe of Minako Aino); Bleach the manga is 1 of my favorites ,Bleach the anime didn’t give me the same postive impression; Inuyasha in my opinion started a lot good,on top of that the animation and character design were super beautiful but then it turned repetitive many episodes,i don’t like it all now,i will watch some of the best future episodes to regain my love for it and anime isn’t the only thing asian contributed to society,i could understand that you don’t remenber the few chinese Wuxia films that made a decent success in american ( the last of them was Jet Li’s Fearless from 2006) ,but is impossible that someone in America didn’t know about this

        • coward

          Gangnam Shit sucked. Psy is not very Acrobatic For An Asian, you know? And while the Acrobats ARE my favorite race, they haven’t contributed SHIT to society, and they are a failed race of ugly fucktards. Meanwhile I am high as fuck, so I am going to fuck off before I get banned. See you tomorrow, Heil Naruto!

        • coward

          PSS, Fearless also sucked. That frail little chink woulda had his ass handed to him in real life.

        • Jet Li

          ok, besides this casual conversation tone, it feels so weird, remenbered me that i need to train myself more until the 2015, the decisive year of my life : O, no more waste of time, sayonara

        • Naruto Uzumaki

          ps, i didn’t mean this was a waste of time, i meant that i need to spend more time training myself, instead of past too too much time in a blog but in excess; any mistake that i do now doesn’t matter, because my life will start from 0 in the 2015 n.n ,sayonara

  3. LaFleur

    the values he credits White civilization with are positively liberal.

    This is what I meant in my other post about being worried about Muslims and macho Mexicans gaining power. I don’t care how they run their lives, but I do not want them running mine as a happily Western woman. There is zero discussion on the left about how you bring all these “diverse” third world value systems in without changing ours.

    As an example, only European Whites seem to have outlawed the very worst pesticides.

    Have you looked into the “food safety” law that just passed? Supposedly it will put a lot of small organic farmers out of business with onerous regulations and increase the amount of produce from Mexico, which is exempt from the new rules. There they happily use many pesticides and chemicals that have long been banned up here. You can still get cancerific 1970s No Pest Strips down there. Remember those?

    In this it is fascinating that the Western Left and even Western liberals are so hostile to White European culture, often vilifying it as the worst on Earth, when the vast majority of their values stem directly from it.

    It’s just a public gesture, like wearing sackcloth and ashes and then going home to their nice SWPL suburb. Or they benefit directly from the diversity training circuit. Like I said before, white liberals into CRT want to be relieved of their white guilt so they can enjoy their money and power in peace.

    Women’s rights is a Western concept. In the rest of the world, the human norm of enforced patriarchy has been the honored tradition. Only in the West have women even approached something like equality, and even that is only in recent years.

    I think a lot of working class women like myself get this. It’s the opportunistic academic hacks who insist on spouting the party line.

  4. Wade in MO

    “Even Latin Americans like Chileans and Argentines have not outlawed the most deadly of pesticides. This is because Argentina never got a good European-type culture. All places colonized by Spain got Spain-wrecked, as the culture of Spain in all its brutality, hierarchy, corruption, collectivism of both right and left, religious superstition, feudalism, extreme racism, intolerance, violence and corruption got transplanted to all of its colonies.”

    I’m not even going to go into how idiotic this quote is. I’ll just say that the Spaniards and Portuguese have one trait that the “superior” nordic cultures don’t: a talent for survival. While idiot white americans are spewing garbage about the greatness of “liberal values” they are being destroyed form within. White american nationalist morons rave about how they’re so much better than Italians, Spaniards, and others while at the same time their own “cultures” are being destroyed. Maybe studpidity is just a nordic biological trait?

    I have a feeing the Swedes will be thumbing their noses at others as they’re being shoveled into their graves…..

    • mott 69

      Wade, as a luke-warm Nodicist myself, I’d say your anti-Nodicism past being unhinged- it makes no sense! You’re just doing it because you don’t personally identify as such. The Italians, Spaniards and Portuguese are highly evolved NOW, and were in their heyday (500 years ago), but their colonies were not, and in between now and then they stagnated in fascist, feudal, Catholic backwardness. I sentence you to five years of living in Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and Holland! (/:=))

      • Wade in MO

        “Wade, as a luke-warm Nodicist myself, I’d say your anti-Nodicism past being unhinged- it makes no sense! You’re just doing it because you don’t personally identify as such”

        BS I don’t indentify with spaniards or Latin America either. The rest is just nonsense too.

        “I sentence you to five years of living in Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and Holland! (/:=))”

        Sorry, I’m not gay or Somali so I won’t fit.

        I’d like to see which group is better off in 100 years: white americans or white latin americans. I’ll bet on the latter.

    • Hey Wade, you don’t get to talk to me like this, ok? You’ve got to tone it down. AFAICT, you’re the only one here who talks to me like this nowadays. Keep it up and I’m going to ban you, ok?

  5. Wade in MO

    “gay Somalian ex-pat Swedes”

    Minnesota?

  6. fpy3p

    Personally, I consider anything to the west of Germany total garbage. The best Europeans are basically from Germany and anything to the east of it.

    • Wade in MO

      The ones to the south ain’t bad either. Austria, Italy, the Iberian countries, Switzerland, Hungary, etc are all great nations who aren’t as dipshitted as the Nordics. I wonder about the Baltic countries though. If they drink too much of the american kool aid they might wake up one day to find that much of their populace loves the kool aid, especially the grape kool aid, if you get what I’m saying.

      • mott 69

        I’m of Swiss ancestry, Wade. Do ya love me now?

        • Wade in MO

          “I’m of Swiss ancestry, Wade. ”

          What kind of Swiss? French? German? Italian? Romansch?

          “Do ya love me now?”

          Are you still promoting heresy?

        • mott 69

          I’d say I’m of Swiss-German descent, along with Scottish, Welsh, English and a little French. The Swiss ancestors (supposedly)originally migrated from Catalonia thru S. France to N. Italy before settling in Switz., then to Germany and then to the U.S. in 1703.

          Q: What “heresy”?

        • Wade in MO

          “Q: What “heresy”?”

          Protestantism.

    • mott 69

      Scandinavia is not to the West of Germany. So, you hate Luxembourgians?

  7. fpy3p

    The nations to the west of Germany, such as Holland, France and of course the Jewnited Kingdom are all Judaicized, plutocratic, imperialist societies that are currently dying from multiculturalism and Amerikwan influence. And the people there don’t even have the fucking balls to do anything about it! On the other hand German has the National Democratic Party (national socialist) and all the Slavic nations have hardcore national socialist or racialist groups fighting for a better future, and Russia has the most bad-ass skinheads who make total mincemeat out of those shitty Chechens and other Caucasus mountain bandit scum.

    • Wade in MO

      The Irish also have balls as do the Spaniards and the Flemish.

      The UK is lost. The BNP is a judaic zionist party. Britain itself is a judaic state. Britain needs to be destroyed and replaced with England, Scotland, and Wales. Then they can begin with real nationalism insted of british “nationalism”. The nordic countries are totally impotent. The white nationalists got exicited this past year when SWeden elected a party everyone called “far right”. Looking closer it has been found out that “far right nationalism” basically means the same thing a american “conservatism”. Lots of talk about ‘values’ and all that shit, but nothing about preserving the ethny. It seems that many of the more hardcore “nationalists” in this region are black metal retard types. France of course has the Front National and they’re not totally bad. Le Pen correctly identifies the holocaust as a mere footnote in history. I think that the FN is strongly assimilationist though. I also worry about their policies toward non-French indigenous languages. Flanders isn’t bad off either.

      • fpy3p

        But Russia, Belarus, Ukraine can be considered Nordic as well, and they sure as hell aren’t impotent. What do you think of Lukashenko in Belarus? He’s a great leader in my opinion. And I wish Poland and the Baltics would stop with the NATO ass-kissing and form a bloc with Great Russia. Studies have shown that blonde hair and blue eyes are more prevalent in Slavs than among many west Euorpeans, so western Nordicists are total morons.

        • Wade in MO

          “But Russia, Belarus, Ukraine can be considered Nordic as well, and they sure as hell aren’t impotent.”

          LOL Good one! Nordic east slavs…HAHA! The the Swedes and Norwegians about that one.

          ” And I wish Poland and the Baltics would stop with the NATO ass-kissing and form a bloc with Great Russia”

          I don;t think Poland should be with NATO either, but joining with Russia would be bad too. Russia and Poland are historic enemies. Russians have also attmepted to use immigration to destroy the cultures of the baltic countries in the past. I also don’t trust the Russians for the most part. Many Russians don’t consider themselves europeans and there is a significant anti-western minority their. Russians might be trying to save Russia, but I doubt if their concern is more than surface deep for the rest of Europe. I respect their nationalist movement, but I think that it can only work in East Slavic countries, maybe only in Russia. No one else wants Russian thuggery in their country.

        • Wade in MO

          “so western Nordicists are total morons.”

          You hit the nail on the head there.

  8. fpy3p

    By the way could you come again with the “grape kool aid” reference?

    • mott 69

      It means Black. African. Negro. Reference to the California Raisins. Nordic doesn’t mean blonde. Are you Polish?

    • Wade in MO

      “By the way could you come again with the “grape kool aid” reference?”

      It’s a stereo type about american blacks. Supposedly they love grape kool aid.

  9. fpy3p

    Dude, I don’t have a dog in this Nordicist fight. I’m Korean. I was just confused why Slavs and Balts are not considered Nordic.

    • mott 69

      No worries. I tried to tell you in another post that, contrary to popular belief, “real” Nordicists know that its not a blonde hair/blue eye thing. The Nazis, for instance, that’s why they had no problem with Hitler being short , dark haired, etc. They were into Viking/Norse stuff, considered Germans to be their descendants. Over half of Scandinavians and Northern germans do NOT have blonde hair and blue eyes- the two don’t go hand in hand.
      “Real” Nazi/Nordicists don’t consider Slavs Nordic- they consider them to be a different, generally inferior (to Nords) race and call them Alpines.
      They rate Baltics inferior as well (for being too Slavic)- look how they were treated by the Nazis in WWII. The Russians also think they’re superior to Balts, that’s why they were/are such bastards to them. (Estonians, however are considered more”Germanic” and thus more OK, by Nordos).
      Everyone in this discussion should agree that all blonde or red hair and blue eyes originates from Norse/Viking blood in the past. So, a lot of Russians, Slavs, Baltics and others have at least some Nordic blood, but not enough to change their racial sub-category.
      Russians, in particular, like to claim superiority (over other Slavics) beacause of this, but the Vikings who conquered Russia basically stayed to the Volga River while the Ruskies cowered in the woods, so they are exaggerating. The Nazis considered Russians exteremely inferior and hated them probably more than any other group – and that’s whole alotta hatin’!
      I’m not an expert on Nord stuff, but I am close friends with one and studied it enough to get their drift. It’s just an opinion on the existence of racial sub-categories of European Whites, and then the subjective “ranking” of them.
      Its not hard science at all and gets silly and ugly when taken too seriously (hence WWII!) I think there’s a lot of truth in it, with some BS as well, but not enough to justify actual racism and genocide. Hope this helps ya!

      • Dave Coe

        Nordicist generally considered Skandinavians and Northern Germans Superior but generally the highest IQ’s in Europe are around the Alpen. Southern Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Northern Italy.

        • mott 69

          Dave- I have Swiss ancestry, so I couldn’t agree with that more! Seriously, I always thought Sweiss was the coolest, smartest country on Earth (neutrality, altruism -Red Cross, taking money from everyone, high technology, sophisticated form of progressive democracy). And that was BEFORE I found out I was of Swiss ancestry…I figure the better elements from N,S,E & W Europe grvitated there over the centuries!

          I also figured maybe the aliens (before WW II)landed there and gave up some of their technlogy- ever notice how Einstein became a genius once he became a Swiss citizen? I’m half-kidding, of course!

        • Wade in MO

          “Superior but generally the highest IQ’s in Europe are around the Alpen. Southern Germany, Switzerland, Austria, and Northern Italy.”

          Yes, this is my favorite region of Europe and the world. I would also throw Hungary and the Czech Republic in to this grouping. The Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation was the greatest state in the history of the world. The region is not only full of smart people, but also great culture. These areas also tend to be more ethnocentrist than the morons up north.

      • Wade in MO

        “Everyone in this discussion should agree that all blonde or red hair and blue eyes originates from Norse/Viking blood in the past. So, a lot of Russians, Slavs, Baltics and others have at least some Nordic blood, but not enough to change their racial sub-category.”

        I don;t agree. Do you have any proof? How do you know that it didn’t evolve in non-nordic regions like Finland and North western Russia? Do blonde aborigines have viking blood? Also, how do you know that blonde hair developed after the region became germanic? Are you saying that the pre-indo european population was not blonde? Also, non northern europeans have been know tho have red hair. I remeber reading an ancient greek account of the Scythians that said that they typically had red hair.

        ” but the Vikings who conquered Russia basically stayed to the Volga River while the Ruskies cowered in the woods”

        The Norman Theory (aka Varangian Theory) is hotly debated. In the soviet union, writing in favor of the Norman Theory ruined your career. This was partly due to slavic pride, but there is also evidence against it. For example, the Scandinavians who were said to have conquered the area came from a land called Rus’. However, there is no tribe in the historical record of Sweden named Rus’. The question is still hotly debated. One must remember that our main source for early Russian history, the Primary Chronicle, was written several hundred years after the founding of the Kievan Rus’.

        • mott 69

          The Scythians came from Russia. Rus means “red”. You’re splitting hairs (literally)! I’m generalizing…Can general statements be made?

          When I said “Nordic blood”- I just meant blood from the Scandinavian region going back 1000s of years ago. I consider Finland to be Scandinavia. Finns are considered Nordic today. I know about Lapps, Uralic Finns, etc. They’re European- not Asian.

          I know that blonde/red hair and blue eyes can occur rarely in other groups, for other weird (genetic?) reasons. That’s irrelevant trivia when we’re talking about where red/blonde hair originated! But thanks for giving me hell for it- then I have to back up what I’ve said! Score: Mott- 3, Wade- 0 Play on!

        • Wade in MO

          “The Scythians came from Russia.”
          The Scythians were an Iranian people who came off of the central asian steppe and conquered what is often called south Russia and now is called Ukraine. The were not Russian or slavs. There were finnic people in modern Russia who were not slavs. Russia only expanded into this area later on.

          ” Rus means “red”. ”

          Where did you get that bit of nonsense from?

          “When I said “Nordic blood”- I just meant blood from the Scandinavian region going back 1000s of years ago”

          You said:
          “Everyone in this discussion should agree that all blonde or red hair and blue eyes originates from Norse/Viking blood in the past.”

          Finns are not norse. Finns are not the descendents of vikings. Neither are most Russians, Balts, Poles, etc. Unlike modern Scandinavians, the Finns aren’t pussies.

          “They’re European- not Asian. ”

          How about their linguistic kin? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nenets_people

        • Wade in MO

          “The Scythians came from Russia.”

          The Scythians were an Iranian people who came off the central asian steppe and conquered a region often called south Russia but is properly know as the steppe region of Ukraine. They were not slavs, though they people they conquered MAY have been slavic speaking. They were about as Russian and the Bulgars and Khazars who also lived in WHAT IS NOW Russia.

          ” Rus means “red”.”

          Where did you hear that nonsense?

          “When I said “Nordic blood”- I just meant blood from the Scandinavian region going back 1000s of years ago.”

          You said: “Everyone in this discussion should agree that all blonde or red hair and blue eyes originates from Norse/Viking blood in the past”

          Finns are not norse. Finns are not descendents of Vikings. Neither are most Russians, Poles, Balts, etc. For that matter neither are most Irish, Scots, or English.

          ” I consider Finland to be Scandinavia. Finns are considered Nordic today.”

          Being Scandinavia and being Nordic are two different things. Scandinavia is ROUGHLY the same area as the Kalmar Union (a great catholic state). However, it does not include Greenland or the Swedish conquests in Finland. Iceland is questionable too. Finns may be called nordic, but not scandinavian.

          ” I know about Lapps, Uralic Finns, etc. They’re European- not Asian.”

          How about their linguistic cousins?
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nenets_people

        • Wade in MO

          “The Scythians came from Russia.”

          The Scythians were a group of Iranian who came from the central asian steppe. They were not slavs at all.

          ” Rus means “red”.”

          No it does not. Who told you that nonsense?

          “When I said “Nordic blood”- I just meant blood from the Scandinavian region going back 1000s of years ago.”

          You said everyone with blonde hair is a descendent of vikings/norsemen. Finns are not the descendants of vikings. Finns are not norse.

          ” I consider Finland to be Scandinavia. Finns are considered Nordic today”

          Scandinavian and nordic do not mean the same thing. Finland is not scandinavian, but it is nordic. It is the only nordic country that is nationalistic at all to my knowledge. I don’t know much about Iceland though.

          ” I know about Lapps, Uralic Finns, etc. They’re European- not Asian”

          What about their linguistic cousins:
          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nenets_people

    • Wade in MO

      “The Scythians came from Russia.”
      Scythians were an Iranian people who came from the central asian steppe and conquered southern Ukraine. They were not slavs anymore than the volga bulgars or the tatars.

      ” Rus means “red”.”

      No it does not. Where did you hear that nonsense?

      “I consider Finland to be Scandinavia. Finns are considered Nordic today.”

      Nordic and Scandinavian are not the same thing. The Finnish are not scandinavian, but they are nordic. In fact they may be the only nordic people with a backbone.

      ” I know about Lapps, Uralic Finns, etc. They’re European- not Asian.”

      What about their linguistic kin:
      http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nenets_people

      “I know that blonde/red hair and blue eyes can occur rarely in other groups, for other weird (genetic?) reasons.”

      Not as rarely as you think.

      ” That’s irrelevant trivia when we’re talking about where red/blonde hair originated! ”

      Blond hair also originated in Austrailia. I guess they are the descendents of abo vikings.

      “then I have to back up what I’ve said!”

      You should back up what you say any way.

      ” Score: Mott- 3, Wade- 0 Play on!”

      Keep dreaming.

      • mott 69

        I didn’t say Scythians were Slavs. I said they inhabited Scythia- Southern Russia. Map: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scythia-Parthia_100_BC.png

        So, you’re right, Wade, because blondes orginated in Australia, the Vikings did too! Logical! I take back what I said about Catholics…

        • Wade in MO

          “So, you’re right, Wade, because blondes orginated in Australia, the Vikings did too! Logical!”

          No. Abos are descended from secret viking conquerors just like greece and rome. Da jooz juz dun gon ayn cuhvad it uhp! DAYM JOOZ!!!!

  10. fpy3p

    Blonde hair and blue eyes did not originate with Germanics. Like I said, Slavs have more of it than many Germanics. Haplogroup R1a, which is Slavic and Baltic, seems to be correlated with light pigmentation in both eyes and hair. Also, the National Socialists hated kikes more than anybody else, not Russians.

    • mott 69

      It originated in ancient Scandinavia (Finland-Sweden). Today it is very common in modern Slavs and Baltics. But still, not more common than in Scandinavia, percentage-wise… see: Blonde Map http://bigthink.com/ideas/21266. (I REPEAT : BLONDE DOESN’T MEAN GERMANIC OR NORDIC AND VICE VERSA!)
      I said Nazis hate Russians more than Jews just to prove a point- they killed more Russians. I believe they killed 30 million Russians, Poles, and Baltics.

  11. ski

    I actually don’t mind nordicists like mott too much, he does seem kind of mild. On the other hand mott, you do seem to have this strange belief that Slavs are all cowardly and docile. How do you explain the cowardly Russians having one of the largest empires in history? What about the battle of Kircholm:

    11,100 Swedes
    vs
    4,000 Poles/Lithuanians.

    Casualties-
    Poland-Lithuania: 100 dead 200 wounded

    Sweden: 8,000 dead 500 captured

    See you can selectively bring up Rus’ supposedly hiding in the woods from Vikings all day… I’ll bring up well documented cases of 10k Swedes losing to 4k Poles/Lithuanians and retreating after only about 20 minutes of battle. Anyone can selectively victories/defeats to make the other side look like genetically determined cowards.

    Wade’s anti-nordicism is over the top however. And so is all this anti-Britain stuff. Britain (especially England) is awesome imo. I’m a huge fan of England. Rule Britainia!

    • Wade in MO

      “Wade’s anti-nordicism is over the top however.”

      There’s nothing wrong with tellng the truth.

      ” And so is all this anti-Britain stuff. Britain (especially England) is awesome imo.”

      Britain is a judaic vampire state with no soul.

      ” I’m a huge fan of England.”

      I actually like England. England, not Britain. Especially before Engalnd’s drift into heresy.

      ” Rule Britainia!”

      Utterly disgusting. Any one who calls themselves a nationalist or who cares at all about preserving any sort of culture cannot admire the British empire. The British Empire was largely jewish in character. That is to say it was largely concerned with theiving and murdering. It harmed more cultures than any other empire in history, including those of the
      Anglo-Celtic Isles. It is one of the main causes of the current immigration problems that we are now facing. Death to Britain. Death to zionism. Death to anglo-jewry.

      • Hacienda

        “Utterly disgusting. Any one who calls themselves a nationalist or who cares at all about preserving any sort of culture cannot admire the British empire.”

        It’s a snake eating it’s own tail, isn’t it? There really is nothing to be done here but enjoy the show and watch the snake eat itself. Paul McCartney, McDonalds, John Wooden, the Kennedys. All of them, great Irish institutions that are genius at the art of the “happy mutual suicide.” Do the Irish really deep down want to take down Brittania? I think so. And why should I as an outsider bother to kill a beast that is killing itself?

        • Wade in MO

          ” Do the Irish really deep down want to take down Brittania?”

          I’m not only talking about the Irish though. I’m also talking about England and other British nations. They need to aboandon Britishness. These idiotic ideas that they are descendents of the lost tribe of Israel and various other garbage are killing them.

      • Bay Area Guy

        Screw the Jewnited Kingdom, especially the labour government epitomized by leftist Jew Jack Straw.

        • Bay Area Guy

          Actually, hold that thought on Jack Straw. I always knew that he was at least part Jewish, but I should’ve been more careful before labeling him as a Jew, for I don’t know his exact ancestry.

          Still, he epitomizes anglo-Jewry through his deeds.

      • ski

        Yeah the Brits have their flaws, and are Jew’d to the max these days. But nobody’s perfect. How many cultures did the Romans extinguish? Quite a few, but yet I admire them still.

        Britain was pretty good to most of its colonies. In India, Africa and Mesopotamia at least they were largely a civilizing influence.

        What I dislike most is their harshness to the Irish and the Boers as well as the intervention against Russia to save the Ottoman empire. Like I said, nobody’s perfect.

        Of course England and all of Britain is a shadow of itself today, but there’s aren’t too many things I enjoy more than reading about its halcyon days.

        How exactly is multi-kulti is all Britain’s fault? They deserve a large share in it, but I dunno if I would say more than Germany or America to name a few other prominent ones. Why don’t you go join an SSPX church in the Alps or something? You seem to relish playing the “blame game” so-called perhaps more than you ought.

    • mott 69

      I’m not anti-Slav or anti-Russian in particular. I think Poles and Lithuanians are distinct from Russians. There’s also a difference between Belarusians, Ukrainians and “Russian” Russians. Ruskies fought valiantly in WW II, Poles and Baltics resisted heroically. Don’t think you can cmpare their Empire to others- big, yeah- mostly steppe and tundra. The story of the Ruskies “cowering”: I was just exaggerating what I heard/read about the Viking period of Rus. Slavs, deservedly or not, supposedly had a historical reputation of being non-aggressive as much as Vikings had the opposite rep.

      AGREED: Wade’s knee-jerk anti-Nordicism makes the most loony Nordicist seem totally rational! Fun to spar w’ ‘im, tho.

      I’m a big Brit- Anglophile, too. kinda into the Celtic-ness as much as Nordish-ness. But BAG has a point about the J-influence- England has it’s black marks, too

  12. Wade in MO

    “The Scythians came from Russia.”
    Scythians were an Iranian people who came from the central asian steppe and conquered southern Ukraine. They were not slavs anymore than the volga bulgars or the tatars.

    • Wade in MO

      “Rus means “red”. ”

      No it does not. Where did you hear that nonsense?

      ” I consider Finland to be Scandinavia. Finns are considered Nordic today.”

      Finns are nordic, not scandinavian. They’re the only nordics with balls.

      • Wade in MO

        I know about Lapps, Uralic Finns, etc. They’re European- not Asian.

        What about their linguistic kin.

        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nenets_people

      • Wade in MO

        “I know that blonde/red hair and blue eyes can occur rarely in other groups, for other weird (genetic?) reasons.”

        Not as rarely as you think.

        ” That’s irrelevant trivia when we’re talking about where red/blonde hair originated! ”

        Blond hair also originated in Austrailia. I guess they are the descendents of abo vikings.

        “then I have to back up what I’ve said!”

        You should back up what you say any way.

        ” Score: Mott- 3, Wade- 0 Play on!”

        Keep dreaming.

        • Wade in MO

          “. I know about Lapps, Uralic Finns, etc. They’re European- not Asian”

          What about their linguistic kin, the Samoyedic peoples?

        • mott 69

          Samoyeds are dogs- not even human! Har har.
          Samoyeds are Asian.

          Roos- syllable means reddish or light brownish (rusty, ruddy, etc.) in IE languages.
          Rusiy (Русый), light-brown, said of hair color (the translation “reddish-haired”, cognate with the Slavic “ryzhiy”, “red-haired” Turns out it’s just one theory of where the Rus got the name. But I’m not wrong. Red-haired people did come from that region (Finland NW Russia) so, it would make sense, regardless. Your point?

          “Rus” also might mean “Swedish”: Etymologically, Roden, or Roslagen, is the source of the Finnish and Estonian names for Sweden: Ruotsi and Rootsi.

          To say Finns are Nordic but not Scandinavian is silly, too. It can go either way, its not wrong to say Finland is in Scandinavia. You mean linguistically and racially? OK, but:
          Finland was part of Sweden until 1803. Finland’s coast is less than 50 miles from Sweden. There is a large Swedish-speaking minority. Finland is now closer than ever to the rest of Scandinavia culturally and politically. Quit splitting hairs!

        • Wade in MO

          “”“Rus” also might mean “Swedish”: Etymologically, Roden, or Roslagen, is the source of the Finnish and Estonian names for Sweden: Ruotsi and Rootsi.”

          Yes, it MIGHT. all I was saying is that there is a controversy over the varangians in early russian history.

          ” Red-haired people did come from that region (Finland NW Russia) so, it would make sense, regardless”

          Those areas aren’t norse. They aren’t the descendents of vikings. How hard is this to understand.

          ” You mean linguistically and racially? OK”

          So they’re not scandinavian. Thanks for agreeing.

          “Finland was part of Sweden until 1803″

          It was also part of Russia. That does not make it east slavic. I agree that Finland has many cultural similarites to Scandinavia (after all it;’s a nordic country) but that does not make it scandinavia.

      • Finns are not Scandinavians.

        The anti-Normanists (who I think are wrong) say that one of the possible meanings of “Rus” was “red-haired people” or something along those lines.

  13. fpy3p

    The Finns are related to us East Asians. Don’t believe me? Look up haplogroup N3, which 60% of Finns have. Anybody who is opposed to Anglo-Jewry should support all the glorious continental civlizations of the world against this maritime imperialist plutocratic vampire.

    • Wade in MO

      “Anybody who is opposed to Anglo-Jewry should support all the glorious continental civlizations of the world against this maritime imperialist plutocratic vampire”

      So do you hate Japan? Since you’re korean I’ll guess that you do.

      I don’t necessarily hate island nations. I actually like medieval england. Ireland and iceland are not bad either. It really just seems to be an upper class thing among jew and anglo-saxons. I think that the dutch may have the same trait in their upper class too.

      It probably unfair to group the english and dutch upper classes with the jews though. The jews are on their own level when it comes to cultural perversion and assholeness.

      • fpy3p

        Actually I respect Imperial Japan from 1931 to 1945, when they attempted to kick Anglo-Jewry out of the Asia-Pacific, and of course they allied with National Socialist Germany.

  14. mott 69

    Wadester-
    Uralic Finns didn’t settle there until 2,00 years ago- they are not where the red hair comes from. They have a small amount of Asian in them but are considered, with Lapps, to be European.

    Blonde and red hair apparently came from the Neolithic people who inhabited the whole area- Norway, Sweden, Finland & Baltic.

    When the Norse invaded Russia, they came in through Southern Finland/Gulf of Finland. That’s why I said red/blonde hair came to Russia via Finland/NW Russia.

    Finland is geographically in the Scandinavian area. That’s what I meant. Finns are not Germanic-Scandinavian. But they live in Scandinavia.
    (Sidenote: England was part of Scandinavia at one time and it still shows in their DNA and culture.

    You say Finnish are Nordic? Then why don’t you hate them? (rhetorical) PLEASE DON’T ANSWER !

    • Wade in MO

      “That’s why I said red/blonde hair came to Russia via Finland/NW Russia. ”

      Your assuming that there were no migration before the possible small migration from scandinavia to russia. You don;t know if there were pre historic migraitons. Also, it seems that blonde hair probably developed naturally all around the baltic sea area including areas now in russia. I’d bet this happend before there were any such thing as a nordic, a balt, or an east slav.

      “You say Finnish are Nordic? Then why don’t you hate them?”

      I don;t really hate nordics, just nordicists. Stop taking eveything so seriously.

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