Evolution of High IQ’s in Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese

A commenter asks the reason for the high IQ’s of Ashkenazi Jews:

What accounts for the higher Ashkenazi IQ? Is it from living in a cold climate in eastern Europe instead of in their original sunny Mediterranean homeland? Or perhaps Slavic genes?

Apparently selection. When the Ashkenazim went to Europe, Talmudic Judaism unfolded around 1000 CE or so, and in order to be a Jew, a man had to read the Talmud and the Torah in full and study it all the time. That’s hard to do, and a lot of men couldn’t hack it. If you could not hack it, you left the community and converted to Christianity. The only ones that stayed were the smart ones.

After a while, they developed a preference for brains like the Chinese have. The Jewish girls would all fight each other to marry the smartest boy in the village, as he was seen as the best catch. Rabbis would have contests where they would invite all the young men around and ask them these convoluted Talmudic questions that might take a day or so to figure out. After a day, he comes back, and all the guys compete to answer the question. Whoever has the best answer (the smartest guy) gets the rabbi’s hottie daughter.

One reason I’m a Judeophile is because I like Jewish chicks. They often like me too, because I’m a brain. Another reason anti-Semitism is stupid is because Jews obviously have a better culture than we do. Jews value brains and possibly even sexually select for it via their women (their women sexually select for the brightest men). American women value near-retardation, tattoos, and monosyllabic, double digit IQ brutes. Conclusion? Jews are superior to White Gentiles.

Chinese society may be similar. I was reading a lot about China for a recent article, and I came across a couple of stunning anecdotes.

The first was about a creative writing class for adults that was held in some rural city. There were all women in the class and only a few guys. One of the men was clearly the best writer in the class. So naturally, all the single Chinese women were fighting over him!

He would go back to his room to read and write, and all the Chinese female students would make up these BS excuses to come to his room and ask him fake “student questions.” By the end of the class, one woman finally landed the guy, and she was the envy of all the others. The women were competing for the smartest man!

Another anecdote told of a village in rural Southern China. One young man was said to be the smartest guy in the whole village. I don’t know what he looked like. Anyway, every hot young Chinese chick in the village wanted him. He was the prize man of the village, and they were all fighting over him. Once again, all the women fighting over the smartest guy!

This is one reason I’m a Rice King. Asian chicks love smart guys. I remember one time I got involved with this Chinese woman. She was always saying, in awe, “You’re so smaaaart.” She was a typical Chinese, no dummy at all. I listened to her say that, and I thought, “You know, no White woman would ever say that to me, especially in that tone.”

Apparently centuries of this sort of thing has resulted in very high IQ’s for both China and Ashkenazi Jews. The Chinese IQ is 108, and the Ashk Jewish IQ is ~119. In Zhejiang Province on the Chinese coast, the average IQ is 118.5, as high as the Ashk Jewish IQ.

Total opposite of this idiot society we have now where the smarter you are, the less likely you are to get a date and the more women hate you. The dumber you are, the more women want you. We have truly evolved a retarded society nowadays.

In White society, the more tattoo-covered and monosyllabic you are, and bigger your Harley is, the more stupid White women want you. In Hispanic society, tattoos, gang membership, criminal behavior, sociopathy and a prison record gets you the hottest chicks. In Black society, rims, grills, tats, a Cadillac, gang membership, a drug dealing enterprise and a rap label contract lands you the best women.

You could excuse young women for this nonsense, because young people in general are stupid, but unfortunately, there’s evidence that this continues through life, even into middle age from what I can tell. American women and American society are quite hopeless. Tarded to the depths.

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157 Comments

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157 responses to “Evolution of High IQ’s in Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese

  1. MikeLevine

    Have you got a source for the Jiangsu IQ?

    The closest I got for for a province-by-province breakdown of Chinese IQ was this:

    http://infoproc.blogspot.com/2008/06/asian-white-iq-variance-from-pisa.html#comment-41599310

    and this:

    http://www.asiafinest.com/forum/lofiversion/index.php/t206025.html

    ..which suggest that Zhejiang folk have the highest IQs in China (115 or 116), the same as Ashkenazi IQ. I would guess the Chinese would have better visual IQ, and the Ashkenazi would have better verbal IQ.

  2. ski

    Jews certainly do have a mean IQ higher than White gentiles, but I don’t think they’re superior in all aspects.

    1.) Terrible at visual arts. Jewish painters are awful.

    2.) Generally “Manichean”/monomaniacal/Jewy worldview. Thus despite high IQ’s there could never be a Jewish Dostoevsky, Nietzsche, Virgil, Plato, Blake, etc. Look at some of the more interesting Jewish thinkers: Marx, von Mises, Rand, Friedman, (sorry for including so many capitalists) Weininger– they all have their good points but tend toward obsession with 0ne particular aspect of reality, and are blind completely to some areas.

    3.) It follows from the above that Jewish poets suck, and while some Jewish philosophers and novelists are good, many areas of philosophy and fiction are basically closed to Jews.

    4.) Nasty personality, lack of self criticism (narcissism).

    5.) Negative physical traits (Jew nose, frizzy Jew hair).

    6.) Whininess, laziness, leechiness.

    In addition to these points I’d add that we Whites can eventually use eugenics to raise our mean IQ well beyond the Ashkenazi mean. The ancient Greek IQ was probably at least 115, so it’s not like we haven’t been there before.

    As to your points about our culture, yeah it sucks. I’ll address it later perhaps, but just note for now that we can (hopefully) eventually change it.

    • CftxP

      For point one, Oppenheim is often regarded as one of the great painters and he was a Jew. But in general, the performance IQ of Jews are actually below average compared to how their verbal IQ is more than a standard deviation above the norm. This means that they’re more likely to be pretty receptive to fields like, let’s say, law. As for the other points, the Eurocentric way of thinking obviously has left a mark on you. In terms of how many whites (and basically Europeans/Americans) think, there’s often the sense of an individualistic conformity, basically, it’s good to be your own person but if you don’t follow on with society, you’re a deviant and you are to be shunned. In cultures like in East Asia and that of the Jews, there’s usually the emphasis on education and total conformity, as well as enough resources to feed the child, though priorities are put more towards an education than anything else. Ironically, despite the predominant culture of conformity and strong sense of tradition, the geniuses that come out of such cultures are often the least conformists and in fact, there’s evidence that higher IQ individuals are more likely to be individualistic and break traditions. And that explains the reasons why I don’t necessarily follow the path of the average 93.5 IQ Filipino student in America (that’s the average according to some info that I’ve read on this blog anyway) Also, my verbal IQ is much higher than my performance IQ and so I’m more suitable to be a lawyer than a doctor, though, I’ve been told that I have an extraordinary talent in the arts as well (maybe because my nonverbal IQ is at the threshold of “high average”).

      So pretty much, if you want to raise kids to have a higher IQ, you need to have promote value in logical reasoning, encourage the arts (Hong Kong and Japan both have curriculum that emphasizes art despite the perceived lack of creativity in East Asians), and possibly, there’s also the value in introversion (more introverted personalities are likely to have genius IQs and from personal experience, the more introverted students in my class have scored higher in general). So if you want to change American society, you can start by doing that. By learning from other cultures and see what works for them, criticizing other cultures only shows your own ignorance if you’re not willing to learn from them and try to understand why they are how they are.

    • Anosh

      As much as you would hope that your arguments would be the nail-in-the-coffin of Jewish intellectual supremacy, you actually fail at exposing Jewish failure in many areas. These philosophers you mentioned are only popular because they were used as a leaway to stigmatize world Jewry with the exact traits that you have listed in the last few points you made. I don’t know too many philosophers, but one Jewish philosopher that stands out to me is Aldred Tarski, who is a logician and mathematician as well. Maybe you can dig deeper and see his background (as well as the background of many other Jewish philosophers, since there are plenty of them). I think you will find that your point of view is based on your own emotions rather than rationale. The Nobel Prize is one example of Jewish dominance over the European mind. But you’re probably going to tell that the Jews control the Nobel Prize– an argument that is rooted in hatred and jealousy rather than facts and empirical evidence. Again, I don’t have all the background information to completely shatter your argument, but the argument of balance in the European mind created by Eurocentric scientists is very archaic and rather misleading. It’s obsession that breeds genius in Jewish culture, and balance in European culture, it appears. Given these cultural criteria, we cannot choose which is more objective than the other in judging genius.

  3. ski

    Btw, point 5 is about 85-95% tongue in cheek.

    I would also add that Whites are undergoing a difficult phase right now and as a White you shouldn’t be so quick to kick your own group when they’re down. I do think you generally do a good job defending Whites, but this “conclusion: Jews are superior to white gentiles,” stuff seems to me a hasty and unwarranted conclusion.

    Furthermore, I find it hard to believe you’ve never found any White girls who dig intellectual guys, they’re rare (especially these days), but they do exist. If we could get a bit more sane of a culture going they could become quite common.

    • Hmmm, there’s been a few. A lot sort of liked it in a weird way, but more as some puzzling oddity about me that they could not figure out. In fact, most idiot Whites act that way. But it was clear that it didn’t make them want to jump my bones. If anything, it seemed to be a detractor in the sexual arena.

      I will add that some Latin American women I’ve known were also really hot for my brains like the Jewish / Chinese women above. That comes from Spain I think, where there’s long been an intellectual tradition, and furthermore, in Latin American culture, intellectuals are hardass, macho guys, not wimpy queers. There’s nothing faggy about being a man of letters for instance. A man of letters is an upper class thing, and Latin women fuck for class, to move up in society.

      Plus intellect is not derided down there they way it is in retard Hispanic culture up here.

      Jewish and Chinese chicks actually got horny due to my brains! WTF. It made them want to fuck me. Incredible. Brains as a sexual turnon.

  4. Liller

    I would take Zhejiang IQs with a pinch of salt. No doubt Chinese IQ is a little higher than most whites, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some nationalist boosting of Chinese IQ by Chinese testers. Just look at the very high incidence of plagiarism by Chinese students (in the West and China).
    Chinese people are not as lazy as whites, and this is just as much a predictor of success as IQ.

  5. David

    Anecdotalism concerning Jewish selection for intelligence:

    My mom is a full-blooded Ashkenazi Jew, and emigrated to the United States from Europe in her 20s. Her first husband was a super nice guy, fairly handsome as well, but she ended up leaving him for her second husband (both men are gentile Caucasian), with whom she begat me and my brother (she had no children with her first husband). My dad is generally speaking an all-around asshole, not very socially skilled at all, and though he is not unattractive, he is not nearly as handsome as her first husband. What he is, however, is high-IQ. I was once talking to her about why she left her first husband for my dad, and she said, very nearly verbatim, “Well, your father, he isn’t the best man in a lot of things, but David, he is sooo intelligent, he uses language sooo well.” This was basically her primary rationalization for falling in love with my dad and leaving her first husband.

    Also, throughout my time in high school she would continually express amazement that I wasn’t getting girlfriends because, after all, “David, you are soo bright, you should be able to get any girl you want.” I am not joking.

    lol, Jews.

    • fpy3p

      Since your mom is a Jew, do you consider yourself one?

      • Bay Area Guy

        Based on his comments so far, I think you know the answer to that question.

        • fpy3p

          I honestly don’t remember what his past comments were like, since he’s been off the blog for a couple weeks now. Could you fill me in?

        • David

          fpy3p: I self-identify as an anti-Zionist, Leftist Jew.

          It would be weird not to consider myself a Jew given that I was raised as one, and pretty much every Jewish denomination in the world treats me as a full Jew (the one exception being Karaite Judaism, which traces Jewishness patrilineally, but there are only like 30,000 of them worldwide).

        • fpy3p

          Are you a Stalinist type leftist or a Trotskyite?

        • David

          Neither. I’m not a big fan of the whole strain of thought emerging from Bolshevism, to be honest.

        • fpy3p

          So are you an anarchist or social democratic type? As someone with quasi-fascist leanings, the only form of leftism I can at least somewhat relate to, admire, and tolerate is Stalinism.

        • David

          Fundamentally speaking I am a pragmatist, not an ideologue. Whatever yields the greatest utilitarian benefits is the policy I favor.

          With regards to first world nations I am, like you said, somewhat of an anarchist-libertarian for cultural issues and a social democrat for economic issues.

          I am somewhat torn with regards to the third world nation question however. I haven’t studied the issue enough yet to know if I support Stalinist/Maoist/authoritarian-style systems in any of these nations, but I lean towards yes in some cases.

    • That’s an incredible anecdote, both of them, really.

      Jewish women preferentially select for brains, Ashkenazim anyway. There’s no way that this is genetic. They don’t have a gene for “seduce the smart guy.” At least I don’t think so. Unless high-IQ women in general prefer high-IQ men as partners. But US White women have high IQ’s too, only 5 points below Chinese, and they don’t select for brains at all.

      This stuff has got to be cultural.

      The smartest culture of all that will outcompete the others is the one where the females select for brains.

      • David

        It’s almost without a doubt cultural.

        Now that I think about it, I could name dozens more anecdotes from my childhood reflecting this value system. My middle name came from my mom’s favorite cousin, who she constantly reminded me was “a brilliant scientist.” I had continual reinforcement of and praise for intellectual pursuits as a child. I rarely ever saw my mom’s side of the family, but when the rare cousin or aunt visited, we would go through picture albums and they would talk about my Jew relatives. The conversation would go something like, “Ah this is Eli, brilliant boy, blah blah blah [enumerate accomplishments], ah this is Eyal, blah blah blah,” and every so often (maybe one in five), they would stop, go into a hushed and whispered (almost shameful) tone and say, “This is Fayel. He’s not too bright.” That would be it, they would stop talking and move on to the next picture.

        All of this, mind you, is the experience of a half gentile raised in the United States with nearly no cultural contact with Jewry other than his mother. I shudder to think what life in a serious Ashkenazi community must be like.

  6. James Schipper

    Dear Robert
    In every country, there is mainly assortative mating with respect to IQ. High-IQ women who marry low-IQ hunks may exist, but they are a tiny minority, and so are high-IQ men who marry birdbrains. Gentiles are like Jews in that regard.
    If harsh winters explained the high average IQ of Ashkenazi Jews, then Scandinavians, who have had harsher winters than Jews for dozens of milennia, would be smarter than Jews.
    In any case, there is very little natural selection by wealth among Jews because Jews help each other. Since poor Jews are helped by their richer tribal brothers, the probability that the children of poor Jews reach adulthood couldn’t have been significantly different from that of the children of rich Jews, just as is the case in modern welfare states. This also explains why the Jewish population of Europe used to grow much faster than the Gentile population.
    It is precisely because solidarity eliminates most natural selection that the Social Darwinists, including Saint Chuck himself, were vehemently opposed to it. They want high mortality among children so that natural selection can perform its magic.
    The reason why Jews are better at practicing solidarity is that their religion exhorts Jews to help fellow Jews, not everybody. Tribal solidarity is a much more effective motive than humanitarian sentiment.
    In Leviticus 19:18, Jews are told to love their neigbor. That neighbor can only be a fellow Jew, as should become clear to anyone who reads the whole verse. Christians always misinterpret that to mean that we should love all others, but a neigbor is not all of mankind.
    If you want solidarity, reject internationalism and embrace nationalism. It works.

    Regards. James

    • fpy3p

      If only Jews would stop hypocritically demanding that Gentiles be altruistic universalists while practicing brutal tribalism for their own kind.

      • Bay Area Guy

        That’ll be the day!

        I mean, yeah, as a pseudo-white nationalist, I’m very tribal in my thinking and am racist. Yeah, I admit it. I’m hardly a saint.

        But then again, I don’t act like some humanist and tell people that they need to unmake their identities.

        Yeah, I find myself getting annoyed with non-whites (okay, mainly blacks), but I would be the last person to tell them to give up their tribal identities.

        I believe every group should enjoy self-determination, the right to identity, and the right to be tribal.

        I just wish leftist elites would stop telling us white people that we must become “citizens of the world” while maintaining that it is okay for others to practice ethnocentrism.

    • not too late

      Scandinavian winters are not that harsh. Nebraska has more severe winters than Norway. Scandinavia is warmer than Eastern Europe/Russia where plenty of Ashkenazi spent a fair amount of time being selected for IQ. Probably plenty of the current population came out of that area as well since their language is germanic and not related to the tiny far northern indigenous others.

  7. James Schipper

    I couldn’t fine my English Bible, but I found it now. Leviticus 19:18 reads as follows: “Do not seek revenge or bear a grudge against one of your people, but love your neighbor as your self. I am the Lord”.

    I am unable to see a commandment of universal love in that verse, only of tribal love.
    English uses the word neigbor, French uses prochain = near, proximate, and Dutch uses naaste = nearest. How can those words mean everyboy?

    Cheers. James

    • David

      Er, there are a lot less subtle expressions of ethnocentrism to be found in the Old Testament (for example, sanctioned genocide of opposing tribes).

      Most all interpretations of universal love in the Judeo-Christian tradition come from the New Testament, not the Old (that is to say, from the Christian part, not the Judeo part).

    • Amy

      The parable of the Good Samaritan indicates that your neighbor is not necessarily from your own tribe. Likewise multiple Old Testament commandments to leave the corners of your field unharvested for the needy and the foreigner.

      (see Leviticus 19:9-10, 23:22, Deuteronomy 24:19, 2nd chapter of Ruth, Luke 10:25-37)

  8. erranter

    We regular whites are just going down the tubes, aren’t we? I still think there’s some white women select for brains. But those same ones either vehemently are anti-children or select for non-white, preferably black, as much as they select for brains. Go figure.

    “There’s nothing faggy about being a man of letters for instance. A man of letters is an upper class thing, and Latin women fuck for class, to move up in society.”

    Yeah, the white latins are like. It’s nice. Even in latin america. I love Argentine girls. But a lot of the mestizos that are dumb as ants on a log and just laugh when you get remotely intellectual, as if you’re some witch doctor or something. Like what tribal folk think of their shaman. They think “thinking” is silly and, like most stupid people, just kind of quirk their heads and stare at you glass- and animal-eyed, as if you’ve got some kind of affliction. Kind of like my semi-retarded ex-girlfriend’s mom.

    Side note on the Shaman thing. Shaman are without a doubt highly intelligent people, at least relative to their tribe. Forerunners of scientists and philosophers. Shaman live apart and sift through the crop of younglings for the best and brightest and raise them to be future Shaman. If one is a dud it will show because Shaman all realize the inefficacy of their art and have to constantly come up with explanations for why they didn’t make the rain come, like religious preachers improv-ing about why he didn’t cure Mama-Jane’s arthritis this time round. When Shaman take power from chieftains (Big Men) which does often happen, they can begin to select the whole tribe for intelligence–perhaps permanently. The Jews and Chinese seem to have retained this for a long fucking time. Theirs are the oldest continuously used writing systems in the world. But at the same time they certainly have negatively for Big Men traits (adventurousness, individuality, emotionality, men of action, etc. things associated with the Greeks) These, combined with high intelligence, produce something altogether different. More like Nietzsche’s Ubermensch. Which is part of the reason why I think the Germanic/Italic genius has a different flair, perhaps more innovative, bold and expressive, although far rarer within their respective population.

    • erranter

      Ok, so Big Men aren’t chieftains per se. Had to look that up. It’s someone with informal influence through rhetorical skill. Kind of like an Odysseus character. But intelligence isn’t their main occupation. And I have a feeling they wouldn’t get along with the Shaman and were the Shaman to take control they would have to deal with the big men first.

    • It’s not just a White Latin thing. I found this with Peruvian women too, even mestizas. If they are pretty smart themselves, are going to college or already have a degree, they want to move up in society and act like the Whites. That sector of mestizo society in Peru can be very intellectual and similar to Iberian culture, but they also like their Inca heritage. Peruvians don’t look down on brains at all. Forget it. And the whole mestiza thing is sort of try to be White. A lot are basically Indians who took off Indian clothes, quit speaking Indian and put on mestizo clothes and started speaking Spanish. Mestizos down there are seriously trying to move up in the world, and it’s a strict class society heavily based on race.

      The man of letters in Latin culture can be sort of an Ubermensch type. He is powerful, emotional, individualistic, adventurous, man of action, etc., yet at the same time he writes poetry or whatever.

      • Susanna Jones

        If you are smart and a foreigner, you will get latin chicks, period.
        There is no selection of looks if those two criteria are met.
        I worked at a multinational consulting enterprise for two years. Every month new employees arrived. They were smart and foreign, plus they knew how to dress well. All races, different body-types and age.
        They used to get out and have huge parties. Lots of them ended up marrying Brazilian girls. Hot Brazilian girls.
        Here is the math: smart + foreigner = good job = MONEY.
        Most Brazilian girls have no financial stability from their family nor very good carrer prospects. Most of them want to land well to do guys. And they know how to do it, too. They´re really good at being the perfect girlfriend for as long as it takes to get married or pregnant, preferably both. And then it´s all about the kid.
        I won’t say every girl is like this, but most of them definitely are.
        It´s even common for mothers to warn their sons: “Careful with those clever girls, use protection. You know waht they´re after and you don´t want to ruin your life.” Weird? Not really. Brazilian law requires the father of a child to pay child-support and if he can´t his parents have to pay. If they also can´t, the father gets arrested. Yes sir. Jail for the deadbeat father.
        Also, one well to do guy ends up supporting the whole extended family. Some foreigners escape this fate by getting their girl out of the country and far away from her relatives as possible. Otherwise they get to become the head of a tribe they didn´t even belong to.
        It´s really funny to watch, if you know what´s going on.
        Again, not all girls are like this, especially not accomplished women who have their own interests, but the average middle-of-the-road, high-school or college educated girl knows how to land herself a supporter for life.

      • Mike Pereira

        Most of those people moved to the coast from the country side during the war in the 1980s. In many ways, Peru is like two countries. Even in Peruvian society, the people of the mountains seem to be moving toward assimilation. Anyway, if you are white caucasian, you will be wanted by most Peruvian women. Being white is better than being smart. It’s pretty much the same the world over. My mother’s family is peruvian chinese, we have our own set of values so these are merely my observations. Our traditions and beliefs have at times felt incompatible with those of the larger “Hispanic” culture. In general, the Peruvian Chinese have done quite well for themselves. I would love to see what the average iq is for the peruvian chinese.

  9. Liller

    The oft-repeated point that people make about Jews being tribal, but encouraging Gentiles to be self-destructively altruistic… did this start with Jesus and St Paul? I’m thinking that New Testament morality is similar to liberalism.. Beautiful sentiments, but encouraging cultural suicide since Universal Love dissipates ethno-cultural unity.

  10. morris wise

    Interfaith marriages among Jews is about 65 percent, it signals the end of Jewish tribalism. A sexual fascination with white racial purity is a Jews motivation to abandon ship. On the opposite end non-Jews find Jewish smarts attractive.

  11. ski

    You know I’ve heard this about Latin whites and it seems to be to a large extent true. I have one good Argentinean friend who impresses me very much with the exact sort of super intellectual, yet macho personality you describe.

    One funny thing about him is that he always used to introduce himself saying, “I’m from Argentina and pure blooded Italian. So think of me as an Italian from South America.” I didn’t get it at first, but realized after a bit that he was terribly afraid of considered nonwhite by White Americans. lolz

    Anyhows, you can also see this intellectual admiration thing in parts of (though certainly not all of) Eastern Europe and amongst some of the Yugoslavs. I think this may be one of the most necessary changes needed to save and advance the White race in America. We’re going to lose a lot of Derbyshire types to the Asians, and possibly face some serious dysgenic problems if it continues.

    At the same time, I can’t help but feeling that you’re more pessimistic than is warranted, after all, as Schipper noted: all women do tend towards a partner of similar intelligence.

  12. Charles Murray gave the rabbinical/Talmudic explanation. But the Sephardics & Mizrahi Jews do not have as high IQs. That’s why Cochran & Harpending theorize that occupational segregation for about 5 centuries in central/eastern Europe resulted in “overclocking” which as a side effect caused their tendency toward Tay-Sachs & similar recessive genetic ailments (which affect a metabolic pathway for sphingolipids in the brain).

    • Thomas Wang

      Indian are divided by caste. Some caste in India have very high IQ. Brahmin caste is very interesting.

      Current IQ

      Southern Brahmin, 1% @ 120 IQ
      Northern Brahmin, 4% @ 115 IQ
      Southern Merchant, 3% @ 110 IQ
      Northern Merchant, 12% @ 105 IQ
      Southern Peasant, 8% @ 93 IQ
      Northern Peasant, 32% @ 88 IQ
      Muslim, 15% @ 75 iQ
      Southern Dalit, 5% @ 75 IQ
      Northern Dalit, 20% @ 75IQ

      Avg = 86.10 IQ
      Current Flynn for India is +7.8

      Hypothesized Flynn effect for India in 21st Century:
      Brahmins and merchants = +5
      Peasants = +7
      Muslims and Dalits = +10
      The Flynn for Africa = +10

      Future Indian IQ

      Southern Brahmin, 1% @ 125 IQ
      Northern Brahmin, 4% @ 120 IQ
      Southern Merchant, 3% @ 115 IQ
      Northern Merchant, 12% @ 110 IQ
      Southern Peasant, 8% @ 100 IQ
      Northern Peasant, 32% @ 95 IQ
      Muslim, 15% @ 85 iQ
      Southern Dalit, 5% @ 85 IQ
      Northern Dalit, 20% @ 80IQ

      Avg = 94

      After Flynn
      High End Indian IQ
      Over 120 IQ = 55 mil
      Over 130 IQ = 20 mil
      Over 140 IQ = 5 mil

      • Erranter

        They always post this stuff in Indian forums. I’m not sure how much I believe it. I’m sure the Brahman are higher than the norm, but I doubt it’s much higher than 100, if even that. Moreover, there’s won’t see much of a boost for Flynn, because they already live quite nicely. The others, yes, might go up, but that’s only if India can learn to feed and nourish itself.

      • John

        This was put out by a guy named recman at the isteve forum. I think that he is pulling stuff out of his ass. Here is why.
        1. The upper castes in India are previlaged groups. They were not persecuted like the Jews which was one reason the Jews were so smart. If your family is previlged, you will survive on the backs of the dalits even if you are dumb.
        2. If the Brahmans are even smarter than the Askanazies as a group the few percent of the brightest people from this group would blow everyone away once they come to this country. In fact nothing like this has happened. Come to think of it, nothing remotely approaching the Jewish achievement was seen from this group in India either.
        Since they started opening up their country thirty years ago, the Chinese have started on their first steps of modernization, which is imitation. They have now their counter part to our Maytag, Cisco, GM, Google, Ebay. Some of these companies like Huawai is now competing with their Western counterparts and winning on their home turf. Even the space and weapons programs were on a fast track to catch up with the West. While we dismiss this as copycats, it is a very difficult feat, especially about the bit on their version of Google. No other country, European or Russia, have achieve this level of success todate. Out of the million or two of the brightest Indians working for Multi-National corporations in India, Have they replicated anything like a Microsoft? The only companies that came up from this are the outsourcing companies which is basically supplying labor and services to the MNCs. Have all these people with supposedly Jew like IQ created anything, copied or original, to compete with the West?

        I arrest my case.

  13. morris wise

    Very few American Jews rise above the middle class, but among them there is a gifted group, they number about two hundred thousand. There is nothing particularly sinister about them, they are just brilliant entrepreneurs and otherwise ordinary people. Those born without talent cannot face the fact that there are those that are smarter, they become the malcontents and Jew haters.

  14. Car Guy

    I believe one thing that East Asians have over Whites and blacks is that they are more consistent and overall more disciplined and harder working. I think that’s the main source of their success.

    • Car Guy

      Also East Asians seem to be overall more competitive than whites and blacks, which probably explains their drive. In the case of the students, their parents many pleasure them non-stop to get all As, but that only compliments the student’s drive to be better than his/her peers. As result, they probably don’t lose their minds as much as non-Asian students do.

  15. Car Guy

    Does competitiveness correlate with IQ or intelligence in any way?

  16. Pingback: Linkage is Good for You: If the Naked Female Body Offends You, Don’t Click Edition (NSFW)

  17. A Chinese

    Ask any Chinese from China mainland which part of China is likely the smartest, if he/she is honest, you would hear that the answer is WU region, without doubt.

    It is because probably more than half of all top engineers/scientists/professors of ANY sci-tech area in China are originally come from WU region. It seems to me (one must check though) that almost all Nobel winners ( in sceinces) of Chinese ethnics came from WU region originally. WU Chinese belongs to Han Chinese.

    According to Chinese historic records and folktales, WU region has been where most of China’s smatest are concentrated for thousands of years now. Majority of China’s #1 ( from Imperical China’s national exams) were Wu people.

    WU is the region of Jiang Su Province, Zhejiang Province and naturally including Shanghai which is artificial consrtuct of recent history. Shanghai is hence slightly more complicated as it has many Chinese people from other regions. The total population of WU region is about 77 million or so – the size of Germany.

    If some study finds out that people from WU, for instance Zhejiang, is likely the smatest on average in China, it won’t surprise me at all. Hey, I am also from WU, originally. :)

    • Jianguo

      As a Chinese, I respectfully disagree. Wu region has been one of the richest areas of China since the Chu, largely because of its location on a flat fertile plain with central access to all other parts of China conducive to economy, trade, administration and culture. It is for similar reasons that the coastal areas of China today are more prosperous than the interior.

      Shanghai 25 years ago would score badly in comparison to Hong Kong. Does that mean Shanghainese went from stupid to smart in 25 years? The few Nobel prize winners from mainland China in comparison to the huge number of Jewish Nobel Prize winners is a joke don’t you think considering that Jiangsu/Zhejiang IQs are supposed to be comparable to Ashkenazi Jews? Not that I think the Nobel Prize is a good measure of group intelligence because I consider it a largely biased process heavily tilting towards Western thinkers and ideals and I don’t just mean the literature and peace prize.

      Hong Kong, Singapore and Taiwan Chinese put Zhejiang/Jiangsu to shame for decades and only recently has mainland demographics started catching up. I think these are important questions to consider before you make blanket statements that all Chinese would agree blah-blah that Zhejiang is the smartest of the Chinese? Now, would I say it is impossible? Not at all. Chinese on the average are smart pretty much everywhere in China. There really aren’t any dumb Chinese provinces, but there are definitely the more educated, sophisticated ones and Zhejiang would be near the top of such a list today in 2012. The keywords are “today in 2012″ because yesterday, as in say 1980, it was just another poor country bumpkin province like the rest of China and indisputably dumber than Taiwan.

  18. Paul

    I have had my IQ tested when I was younger and once again in my late twenties. In both test it has came up in the “above average” to “gifted” range and I feel pretty good about it. Although I have had a hard time learning a foreign language in the past, I can breeze through my writing and math classes with little problems.
    However as a white, younger adult living in the United States, I am surrounded by people who are rather dumb and perfer life to continue being that way. These people go out of their way to write in incorrect words in both online and assignments in school and perfer the ideology of getting intoxicated rather than dealing with life sober. Even when it comes to dating, these people tend to go with the prettiest girl they can find and leave out the lesser looking but far more intelligent and compatible woman who would be better suited for them.
    I have never understood this line of thinking and I would like to thank sites like yours and a few others for truly letting me understand that this was the reason why I truly never felt accepted in this society. I never understood why I never felt the way that most others have felt or why our government does so many stupid things and it just seems okay to others. Once again, thank you for opening up my eyes and now I can feel better about myself.
    Thank you,

    Paul

  19. Avi Marranazo

    Interesting thread. I’d like to be included in other such discussions. I’ll participate if I have time.

    regards
    AM

    PS: You might be interested in a book called “A People That Shall Dwell Alone”, about Judaism as a “group evolutionary strategy”. by socio-biologist Kevin MacDonald. It builds on a lot of the themes you touch on above.

  20. BigMoeMiami

    It is interesting that Ashkenazi Jews and Chinese are compared with regard to how they value high I.Q. culturally. Could it be that there is a link? There is a solid foundation for the thesis that Ashkenazi Jews originate from the Khazarian Empire a Turko-Mongolian race of people that populated Southern Russian from the 7th Century and who apparently converted on mass to Judaism in the 8th Century. This is not anti-Semitic diatribe, there is a solid scientific foundation to this theory of origins posited by Israeli Jewish Scholars, David Alan Brooks and Arthur Koestler. The Mongolid race generally has an I.Q. that is a standard deviation higher than the Caucasian race. Could the Ashkenazis higher overall I.Q. have something to do with their Asian origins?

    • Kevin Brook is the expert on Khazaria. He rejects the strong Khazarian theory you propose here. Khazarian DNA was sort of like modern Uzbek DNA = not very high IQ. Culture is real, it is a super factor in behavior, and culture propels genetic selection. The point of the article.

      • BigMoeMiami

        How then do you explain the glaring inequality between the Ashkenazi I.Q. and the Sephardic I.Q? Cultural influence alone could not account for this widespread anomaly, there must be a genetic link. You should not discount the Asiatic Ashkenazi connection in such a facile manner, there are many Asiatic looking Ashkenazis. Sarah Silverman made a whole episode of her comedy show about it. Silverman and her sister and many Ashkenazis look decidedly Asiatic. BTW Khazarians are more closely related to Khazakis whose average I.Q. of 93 correlates with the average Israeli I.Q. of 94.

        • Kazakhs certainly do not have an IQ of 93. More like 85.

          Yes, cultural selection could result in such a high IQ. As a pointed out in the piece, men who could not read the Talmud and Torah were made to leave the community. They left and converted to Christianity. Jewish women prized the most intelligent men and preferentially selected them. There may also have been preferential selection in terms of Jews working in finance during the European period when Christians were forbidden from such work.

          Culture and genes work together via selection. Think about it! You’re not thinking. You think “culture” is one thing and “genes” is another, but it’s a delta, one gigantic river flowing into an ocean with an estuary where they seamlessly merge called selection.

  21. BigMoeMiami

    BTW you should review your Kevin Brooks, he does not reject the Khazarian origin theory at all, his theory is that the Ashkenazi are an admixture of Western European Jews with Khazars who intermarried. http://www.khazaria.com/khazar-diaspora.html

  22. Huax

    ski
    The ancient Greek IQ was probably at least 115, so it’s not like we haven’t been there before.

    It really was not. The methodology that arrived at this number is completely broken- the “greatness” of Greek culture came from its stratified society and astronomical slave population (something like 33% in Athens, 90% in Sparta). This created immense human suffering but those at the top had tons of free time. As a result Greece produced great art and philosophy but they were taken down and taken down hard by internecine warfare and instability.

    You have to consider how many resources are being used and for what purpose, Greece funneled countless man-hours into the production of their marbles, sagas, plays, temples, etc. And what they have to show for it today is near total financial destruction and a lot of ruins, but massive debt doesn’t make for much of a tourist attraction.

    Liller
    I would take Zhejiang IQs with a pinch of salt. No doubt Chinese IQ is a little higher than most whites, but I wouldn’t be surprised if there was some nationalist boosting of Chinese IQ by Chinese testers. Just look at the very high incidence of plagiarism by Chinese students (in the West and China).
    Chinese people are not as lazy as whites, and this is just as much a predictor of success as IQ.

    And clearly there is no sampling bias/nationalistic boosting of white IQs, right? You do realize that every measure of anti-social behavior is flagged more often in the West than in China, correct? Cheating, white collar crime (and all other crimes), financial fraud, legalized corruption?

    The Chinese figures were taken by provincial heads looking to increase funding from central for nutritional deficiencies in schoolchildren, they have no reason to pad their scores. Tibet “proper” even scored 85-95, which set off alarm bells to rush iodized salt to Western Tibet. They underperformed their Eastern Tibetan cousins by about 20 points.

    erranter
    I still think there’s some white women select for brains. But those same ones either vehemently are anti-children or select for non-white, preferably black, as much as they select for brains. Go figure.

    Most white women as far as I know go for men who are about as intelligent as they are. Or end up with them, whichever way you prefer to say it.

    A Chinese
    Ask any Chinese from China mainland which part of China is likely the smartest, if he/she is honest, you would hear that the answer is WU region, without doubt.

    This is debatable. IMO it’s either Jiangnan or the North Proper, i.e the Loess Plateau/Central Plains.

    Robert
    Kazakhs certainly do not have an IQ of 93. More like 85.

    I think those numbers have changed, Robert. Their IQ has been rising fairly steadily, and their economy is not doing too bad either.

  23. SayNototheNWO

    Its a no brainer to understand why southern/Midwest American White ‘GOYIM’ are obese, semi-retarded, and dumbed down significantly. The southern US is home to some of the worst environmental disasters the world over. The US is the only country that is exposed to GMO’s in its food supply, PCB’s, Corexit on the BP Oil Spill, flouride/arsenic in its drinking water, and throwing chemical depressants at 7 yo blue eyed boys. This is not including the Marxist teachings and the intentional dumbing down of US primary education. Keynesian economics and Wall Street have made it now virtually impossible for the common man to make a life for himself. White ‘Goyim’ Americans are forced to apologize for everything that happened in the Holocaust and trans-Atlantic slave trade while the Zionist/Globalist Jew forces us to believe in Anthropogenic Global Warming, Political Correctness, and Peak Oil. The Zionist gets bailed out in the trillions of dollars by the American ‘Goyim’ taxpayer while he bribes Congress to take more and more of our individual rights away guaranteed to us in the Bill of Rights. White gentiles are versatile and work with their hands as well as their brains (especially when its not controlled by the government). Most Jewish males have noodle size arms with a brain only used for the destruction of man (nuclear technology and frankenfoods). Lastly, how dare you compare White gentiles with Blacks. Just look at the difference in the city of Detroit in the 1950’s vs today where its over 90% Black.

  24. While it’s undeniably the case that on the whole Jews and East Asians value intelligence to a greater extent than Blacks, Gentiles, etc. — I think there’s more to *selecting for* intelligence than simply valuing it. In Jewish society there was a social mechanism that consolidated gains in intelligence over generations — namely, the ‘defection’ of sub-par males from the Jewish breeding pool (they went swimming with the Gentiles instead).

    I will happily grant that over time cultural preferences for certain traits will gradually promote said traits. But I suspect that shorter-term sorts of demographic effects also contribute to East Asian IQ scores. Among them — I suspect that the One Child policy has prevented disproportionate breeding among the largely inferior rural townspeople. I also suspect that higher IQ East Asian women have more children per capita than Caucasian High IQ women; especially post-WW II.

  25. Evolution of intelligence

    Good article. But one thing I’d like to comment on: Many assume that intelligence must have evolved identically in Chinese and in Jews (or whatever two groups we’re comparing that have been found to be more intelligent). Since intelligence as we know it in science today is controlled by a multitude–indeed countless–of biochemical pathways, it’s very probable that genetic drift in the Chinese and the Jews separately developed greater intelligence. Then sexual selection, as you mentioned, might take over to potentiate those particular alleles, regardless of its beneficial or negative effects otherwise. (What comes to mind here is the prevalence of genetic disorders among the Ashkenazi, which somehow is conserved despite their apparent reduction to fitness.)

    Perhaps the genes for “intelligence” are simply the genes for personality. This is one possibility that is often ignored or not even thought of. Perhaps it could be that the genes concerning a hyperactive and aggressive mind exist as “toned down” alleles in Chinese and Japanese, allowing them to do better in academics and of course on IQ tests.

    But again, this is all conjecture.

  26. sexmachine

    The indian iq was conceived by test scores and iq tests by indians in india. Thus that is the true iq of upper castes which is over 100. These people are not the entire population thus it is not representative of the entire group. There is no reason to think that upper caste indians wont score over 100. 1000’s of years of eugenics will do that to your iq, which is what upper caste indians did. The iq of brahmens will continue to increase since most of them live in bad conditions compares to the western world, as the environment becomes better the iqs will increase. India is going through a bad time right now no doubt it will change. Both china and india used to represent 2/3 of the worlds economy.

    • Dota

      This is a fair point. Indian castes are endogamous and as such each caste should have its own curve. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average Brahmin IQ is above 110 as the bastards have monopolized literacy over the past 2000 years.

      • I am not sure if literacy and IQ are inter-related. My tribe, which was largely illiterate during its hunter-gatherer times, is today not only one of the most literate communities in India (>76.5% or close to 100% for the under 30, way above the country average), but also one of the high IQ tribes. Brahmins may have enjoyed the benefits of education over the centuries but literacy and education doesn’t directly co-relate to IQ.

      • Hacienda

        “bastards have monopolized literacy over the past 2000 years.”

        What do you mean by this? In what way? By exclusion or by indifference?

      • Dota

        Hacienda

        By exclusion. To be precise, its not literacy per se that they monopolized as the Warriors (administrators) and Traders were most likely literate too. But they did monopolize higher education, mathematics, science, and philosophy. They dabbled in logic and abstract thought. They were the only caste that allowed itself to be challenged intellectually.

      • Xera

        Dota, have these Indian Brahmins invented anything or come up with ideas or revolutionary paradigms on a global basis as of date in modern times? Indians always tell me that they were too busy being geniuses & civilized people in the past as that was the prime reason why they got conquered by so many outsiders in the first place.

        They also tell me that the Persians were poor & brutish soldiers that needed India to get rich themselves, and Indians were too brainy to fight or have warriors, so the Persians took everything away from them & were in awe of the richness, sophistication, & sheer genius of Indian people & civilization. Indian Muslims seem to talk about how great India was and how they are such geniuses whenever the topic of their country is brought up but they seem to claim they are Muslims, and not Hindus, not Persian or any real Middle Eastern ethnicity, and use whatever fabricated brahiminated history of India as their own. This never makes sense to me

        • Dota

          Xera

          The Brahmins are indeed a talented and highly creative bunch, I don’t deny this. Apart from the decimal system and various theorems, Hindu philosophy is highly profound and quite refined. My beef with Hinduism is that these philosophies have little practical value for society on a collective or individual basis. That’s not to say that they ideas aren’t clearly thought out. Indian literature is in a class of its own. I’ve read somewhere that most of the successful IT start ups in silicon valley are Brahmins. India’s civilization is a Brahmin civilization.

          And yes, Indians are highly nationalistic and boast quite a bit about their civilization, even though non Brahmins contributed next to nothing to its philosophy, polity or ethics.

          “”Indian Muslims seem to talk about how great India was and how they are such geniuses whenever the topic of their country is brought up but they seem to claim they are Muslims, and not Hindus””

          Secular Indian nationalism, Nehru style. It’s around, but it gets drowned out by Hindutva.

        • Xera

          So if India’s civilization is a Brahmin civilization, then clearly it’s a failed civilization and philosophy & ethics, the Brahmins are technically Central Asian that wouldn’t necessarily make them “Indian”? It has failed to adapt on a global level which is evidenced on how it was conquered so many times by non-Indians, how there is no real sense of masculinity or doing great things by capacity & concept of work and most of the fighting on behalf of India was also done by non-Indians or non-Brahmins. None of the paradigm changing start-ups have been Indian Brahmins. I would venture to say that the Sikhs are more successful in the U.S then most of the other Indians out there. BTW Indians are destroying Silicon Valley and the American techforce atm, just read tunnel rat or Drunken economists blog sometimes. These Brahmins can’t conquer something or run a international sporting event properly.

        • Dota

          xera

          Depends on how you define ‘failed civilization.’ Muhammad Iqbal once boasted in one of his poems that Classical Greece, Egypt and Rome have all faded away, but Indian civilization lives on. When viewed from that angle, India’s civilization possesses an extraordinary resilience. But one could also argue that it hasn’t evolved very much. A civilization by its very essence is a monumental human achievement. Its arrival heralds the new heights attained by a culture. In my personal opinion, I don’t think civilizations can be classified as ‘failed’, however i do believe some are superior to others.

          As far as the Brahmins being central asian, its quite irrelevant. That’s like arguing the significance of the North American aboriginals’ East Asian origins.

    • Xera

      I don’t think India is going to go anywhere in the near future with the state of how it is and how much it’s culture sucks.

  27. sexmachine

    John, just because Indians didnt create anything like microsoft does not mean they wont in future with better resources. Oh and your grammar is as primitive as your irrational logic.

  28. David

    Sry but there is a few problems with this idea of a certain European Jewish people having somehow having far higher IQ’s than anyone else and am surprised people here have not picked up on this already.Firstly how many pure blood Jewish people are even alive today,if as people have said Jewish women and men are more likely to marry for brains and marry non-jews,then their offspring are only half Jewish genetically and that trend would continue through the generations.If your saying alot of Jewish people inter-marry among only other Jewish people then the effects of what has happened with Chinese people would also most likely happen among these Jewish people that dont inter-breed often.That is an awful lot of people with IQ’s between 90-125 but hardly any compared to White Europeans lower than 90 and higher than 125.Meaning if you put together Europeans and Asians the stupidest 10% would nearly all be White Europeans but the smartest 10% would also nearly all be European.You cant just get the average of a complex thing as IQ’s and hope the rest of the equation is equal in all respects,This would also explain why so many genuises are European compared to the rest of the world in our history.Secondly how do you correlate the iq of Aszkenazi Jews in Israel only having IQ average of around 103 with the idea AzhKenazi jews are much smarter than other people.?.

  29. an observer

    Worth repeating this at least once by each reader:

    Jews certainly do have a mean IQ higher than White gentiles, but I don’t think they’re superior in all aspects.

    1.) Terrible at visual arts. Jewish painters are awful.

    2.) Generally “Manichean”/monomaniacal/Jewy worldview. Thus despite high IQ’s there could never be a Jewish Dostoevsky, Nietzsche, Virgil, Plato, Blake, etc. Look at some of the more interesting Jewish thinkers: Marx, von Mises, Rand, Friedman, (sorry for including so many capitalists) Weininger– they all have their good points but tend toward obsession with 0ne particular aspect of reality, and are blind completely to some areas.

    3.) It follows from the above that Jewish poets suck, and while some Jewish philosophers and novelists are good, many areas of philosophy and fiction are basically closed to Jews.

    4.) Nasty personality, lack of self criticism (narcissism).

    5.) Negative physical traits (Jew nose, frizzy Jew hair).

    6.) Whininess, laziness, leechiness.

    In addition to these points I’d add that we Whites can eventually use eugenics to raise our mean IQ well beyond the Ashkenazi mean. The ancient Greek IQ was probably at least 115, so it’s not like we haven’t been there before.

    As to your points about our culture, yeah it sucks. I’ll address it later perhaps, but just note for now that we can (hopefully) eventually change it.

  30. Gay State Girl

    “In addition to these points I’d add that we Whites can eventually use eugenics to raise our mean IQ well beyond the Ashkenazi mean.”

    Tell that to your base.

    While I have no use for modern art at all, and European Jewish art from the turn of the century is visually unappealing, though usually deliver clever, humorous messages in a subtle manner, I do not believe that this is due to innate ability and Jews have suceeded at various forms of visual art.

    While Eastern European Synagogues are not particularly impressive, (there are a few notable exceptions) architecture within the Southern Europe, Ottoman empire and Persia rivaled that of churches mosques.

    Both Yemeni and Bukharian (I have some ancestry) are known to be skilled Jewellers.

    Israeli folk music is unparalled.

    I disagree with you about investment banking. Psychology is the biggest jewish scam.

    • Amy

      They included Christian Science church founder Mary Baker Eddy in those proxy baptisms as well.

      • Gay State Girl

        Ancestry.com is a mormon site. They get everyone’s info and incorporate it into the databaase of the LDS. Personally I don’t care about the baptisms, it’s a gesture of goodwill, but to take people’s personal info as well.

        • Amy

          Did not know that. I’ve looked at some of the LDS database doing genealogy research but didn’t find anything there that I hadn’t found elsewhere. Haven’t used Ancestry.com since it’s a paid site.

          Mixed feelings about their database, on account of privacy concerns. It’s one thing to have records of long-dead ancestors, and another to have records of living people.

        • Gay State Girl

          They baptize everyone in their database.

          Religious fundamentalists never cease to amuse me.

        • Amy

          Holy crap, I must be a Mormon now, ’cause I’m in their database.

          On the home page, I punched in my first name, last name (maiden name only), and the state I was born in.

          Out popped one record–me–showing my parents’ names and my childhood hometown.

          They don’t have my current hometown, but close enough–the record shows the town I lived in a few years ago.

        • Gay State Girl

          If they want to gain credibility for their half baked religion, they have to stop attracting this kind of attention.

          I have always been too scared to put my information on genealogy sites.

        • Gay State Girl

          Holy shit. Ancestry.com got a hold of my Grandfather’s WWII Navy records.

        • Amy

          Is that not public info? I don’t actually know.

          I haven’t been able to look at documents on ancestry.com or the other LDS site because I’m not a member at either site. Sometimes the records come up in Google searches but I can’t access them.

          My Dad was Navy too–I’ve tried Googling variations on his name and the Navy and all I get are old news bylines of his about the Navy from his newspaper career.

        • Gay State Girl

          I guess it’s available via archives. I just didn’t believe that there was anyone passionate enough to dig up information about strangers, with whom they had no concern.

    • Hacienda

      The 9/11 hijackers get to go to Mormon heaven. That’s not a bad deal.
      It’s insane, but in an insane world the insane man is sane.

  31. Gay State Girl

    I’ll perform brisses on dead Mormans.

  32. The holocaust had a eugenic effect. The dumbest ones got caught and the smartest one figured out how to evade.

  33. Gay State Girl

    I don’t think Jews are arrogant, it is quite the opposite. All Jews are self haters at the core and wish they could be more Aryan.

    • Xera

      Which ones, the ones without big noses? Aryans aren’t blue eyed or blonde

      • Gay State Girl

        I know the true definition of “Aryan,” but it has taken on a meaning and life of its own. “Aryan” is everything that is beyond reach for a Jew; that a jew could never be.

        • Xera

          Yeah those damn Greeks are too lazy to run a country, let alone a good tax system, the Jews will never ever be anything like that. Those Aphrodite women are too out of reach of those Jews, I mean those guys are too goofy lookin, big nosed, tenant dwelling buildingy-NewYork-Y, so they have to resort to running German banks and bailing those lazy primitive Greek men out of debt, bunch of tanned Aryan featured losers!!

        • Gay State Girl

          Where did I say anything about Greeks? I just said that Jews have inferiority complexes. We just wish their culture was more genteel, but we could never achieve that, our genes won’t permit it.

        • Xera

          Greeks are technically an “aryan” race right? They are descended from them

  34. Jews didn’t always have high IQs. At the turn of the 20th century IQ scores showed them below average. I think my theory stands true. The reason Jews are smart is because the Holocaust killed off the dumbest ones. If you killed off the dumbest of any race all you’d have is the geniuses left and then everyone would be talking about how smart that race is. That’s why Jews are smart. The smartest ones evaded capture.

    • Any thoughts? Have Jews always been smart??

    • Gay State Girl

      “At the turn of the 20th century IQ scores showed them below average.”

      Sources?

      “The reason Jews are smart is because the Holocaust killed off the dumbest ones.”

      There is some truth to that theory. Educated Jews from Western Europe (who did more harm to pre War Germany than Ostjuden) were able to use their professions to secure jobs in the US, Australia, England, and Southern Africa, and Ostjuden were left to die. However, there is no statistics showing Western European Jews to have higher IQs than Ostjuden.

      The Jewish IQ rose substantially during the middle ages, through social selection. As European Christians who worked as manual laborers gradually became stronger due to natural seleJews worked as bankers and merchants rather than farmers and tradesmen. As low wage earners were looked down on in the Jewish community, they generally left.

  35. Gay State Girl

    There already were millions Jews in the US, England, Australia, and South Africa by the 1930’s, from whom the majority of modern day Jews are decended, so that refutes your claim right there. This could be a common phenomenon over the past three millenia.

  36. Matheus

    Hi friend.I’m also a judeophile and a great admirer of chinese intelligence.So I support a theory that the Jews should seek to marry Chinese women, and educate their children according to Jewish tradition and religion, which values ​​education.The children would have the best characteristics of each people and a great inteligence.One example that proves this is Moshe Cavalin, 11 years and graduated in astrophisics.I’m trying to spread this idea, if ou agrees,please comment something.

  37. Sarah

    First thing I noticed about this article is putting so much emphasis on how attractive you are based on intelligence.
    Anyways, to the point.
    I’m a Chinese 6th grader born in the united states. Some parents don’t put that much emphasis on intelligence and want their kids to be average. They don’t see the need to be smarter.
    The point is, in some races, kids are more likely to grow up in an environment that pushes them to see what other people don’t see.
    Other factors contribute to how smart kids are, including race and gender stereotypes. It really does play a big role in the choices children make. In my school, girls preform better in literature and foreign languages because they are expected to. Also, I’ve noticed that Chinese people at my school (including me) suck at literature and do better in math and science. Caucasians are extremely average- not extremely stupid or smart, just average, as expected and other minorities are either extremely smart or dumb.
    I do not think some people are just smarter. They must be highly motivated, or expected to act that way by their families, teachers, and peers.
    I think race doesnt matter in intelligence, it’s the way you were brought up. Parents may be more or less likely to put much emphasis on education. My parents, both immigrants, wanted me go to Harvard, get into medical school and become a doctor, and that’s why I aspire to find a job in science or mathematics. my parents want me to believe that I could be smart and I grew up with that mindset
    And the sentence at the end that says young people are inherently stupid is just off-topic

    • ishmael

      This is such a cute comment.

    • Liv

      Some of what you’re saying is true, in terms of motivation BUT motivation is nor enough to achieve goals.
      Myself as examples: I was told early on that my intelligence is average because I didn’t do well in school as a child. So mom said “at least sees pretty & will find a husband to take care of her” that killed me in theo inside btw- basically being told I had no future as an Individual. I.suffered low.self esteem because of that untill my 20’s. years later as an adult I moved away from home, and started doing very well in college; but still with great efforts because I now realize that i dont learn like others. I need to figure things out in my own pattern. I decided to take an IQ test in secret to see if all my learning difficulties were because like mom said; I was average at best. I scored 138.

  38. DebbieinTX

    Science has proof that women more likely pass IQ genes than men. I am from China, my own family are example of this. My grand mother could not read and write because she was born poor in late 1910s, she has 6 adult children, 3 daughters, 3 sons. My mother was able to go to college for free After the communist revolution. My mother’s teacher had to talk to my grandmother to convince her my mother is smart should not miss the college since my grandmother was widowed and she wanted my mother started working to raise younger siblings……. The third generation, all my grandmother’s daughters’ kids went to college while her son’s kids did not do so well in school probably they did not marry smarter wives :-).

  39. Ron

    Einstein was a Jew who paited a pucture of the universe. Bob Dylan, a poet is a Jew. I can name thousand of other Jewish examples in the visual arts, music,film, but why bother answeing a village idiot with an IQ in the single digits?

  40. Yaakov

    Hi-
    I am an Ashkenazi Jew born and raised in the USA and am religious.
    I wanted to comment on the various things people said.
    First of all, the anti-semitic comments, when they happen, really are not appreciated.
    I have alot of friends, both Jewish and not Jewish, each with their own strengths and weaknesses. Group stereotypes can be very frustrating.
    For example, many posters talked about Judaism being only about looking out for people of the same ‘tribe’. This is highly unfair and untrue. Judaism regards itself as a ‘priestly nation’ meant to serve all mankind. Many of the west’s greatest ideals come from the Jewish bible and Jewish thought. There are many misconceptions. A classic examples comes up about once per year in a badly sourced editorial about Israel. People think when it says ‘an eye for an eye’ in the Bible it literally means it. It doesn’t. The Talmud talks about this, and explains that it actually means financial compensation for the person whose eye was lost due to the perpetrator. Israel’s main purpose in her military actions has always been deterrence. You can agree or disagree with her methods, but she is not seeking an ‘eye for an eye’. She is seeking the end of terrorism against her.
    In terms of IQ and Ashkenazi Jews, having grown up around them, and being one myself, it does seem to me that we do as a group have a higher average IQ. We do value (as a group) intelligence more than the typical American. We do value the ‘nerd’. This has obvious benefits. It also seems likely to me that at this point in history we probably do have a genetic advantage in this area, since IQ is partly determined by genetics. I doubt all of this advantage is cultural, though some is.
    I myself have a very high ‘IQ’, though I don’t consider myself particularly intelligent. It’s an irony of intelligence that the more intelligent you are, the more stupid you realize you are. I’m pretty dumb.
    Again to the point about tribalism, the Rabbi of my synagogue, which is orthodox (classical Judaism), gave a speech 2 months ago – a very passionate speech, specifically exhorting the whole congretation (a very big one) to get out in the real world and do things for our entire society. The Rabbi stressed how important this is, and how must we must do it. I myself am heavily involved in such an endeavor, for education, and have worked on this for 15 years without any pay, for example. I may end up being a successful entrepreneur, I may end up being worth nothing, but I have done it out of idealism and that idealism comes from my Judaism.
    It is true that in our religion we emphasize a circle, starting with one’s spouse and children, then expanding outwards through family, community, country and world. So one should give charity first to his elderly parents, before giving the same amount to a homeless person he does not know. But this does not mean we do not help the homeless. At my old synagogue in California, a bunch of us befriended a homeless man (a Lutheran) and helped him for years. I myself found him a good subsidized apt. with a priest (a Lutheran) working together. Unfortunately he did not agree to take it (though he had the funds and we walked him every step of the way), being OCD.
    Jews very often look out for others. It’s ingrained in us. If you learn to help your brother, it doesn’t make it LESS likely you will help the stranger, it makes it MORE likely. This is what people do not understand. When one is raised to help, one is bred that way for interactions with everyone.
    So I defend my people and their kindness.
    And this is not to say we don’t have those we are ashamed of – we do. We fear for the desecration of G-d’s name brought about by a Madoff, etc. But for every sociopathic Madoff, there are a large number of others who are doing the opposite. If there is a reason G-d gave us our intelligence, it is to serve Him, so let’s just all do our best, Jewish or not, and leave the prejudice at the door. Which is not to say there are not group differences- there are, having always been, and will always be. Just like you have individual differences.

    Sincerely,
    Yaakov

  41. Yaakov

    Another example from our tradition. Again when Jews get removed from our tradition, which has happenned due to assimilation and persecution, they lose access to these sources. There is an ideal in Judaism of a ‘Torah Scholar’ or someone who knows the Torah very very well. This is a broad category of thought including Bible, Bible commentary, Mishna, Talmud, Various Commentaries, etc. However, there is a parallel concept that is emphasized greatly in orthodox Jewish schools. This is the idea that one’s knowledge or ‘wisdom’ can only be as great as one’s character. The metaphor is like this – one’s character – or ‘middos’ – are the roots of the tree, and Torah knowledge are the branches, leaves etc. that flower from those roots. One who has weak character but strong knowledge -his tree will fall, one who has strong roots, he can always grow.
    This is a core idea in Judaism. It’s emphasized in very very many ways to our children as they are educated. The problem is we have become largely removed from our traditions as most of our people are now assimilated, so they have lost their connection to these core ideals.

    So – for example – in the example given far above in the comments – someone was talking about their jewish mom going over relatives and deciding who was intelligent and who wasn’t. That’s plain wrong from a Torah point of view. It’s a sin, and a serious one. I doubt this woman even knew she was sinning when she spoke with her son that way. Yes we value intelligence, that is true, but we value character above intelligence. Character is harder to achieve and more important.

    Take a handicapped person – say someone with Down’s syndrome. In our tradition, it’s likely G-d put a soul with a little bit of unfinished business on earth in such a body. This person does not have full capacity to do all the mitzvahs (good deeds, or commandments), because they are on a higher spiritual level, not lower. This is what we are taught. To say – make fun of such a person – would be the height of folly – not just wrongness – spiritually and intellectually. This is why when the Nazis started with the handicapped – murdering their own handicapped – they showed their true colors, which were evil. We believe G-d put us all here for a reason.

    Yaakov

  42. The article and the comments were a very interesting read. Not that I agree with it all, since there is obvious bias and lack of knowledge of history in many comments, but overall, very interesting.

    But please don’t underestimate the Whites, Blacks and other people so much. Smart people have always been, and will always be among all.

    Good IQs is a blessing from God, it should make one humble, not proud.

    However I see the missing link to God throughout and was wondering people here believe in God at all? Isn’t it God who plans which people in which era will get smarter than others? Or people here believe this all IQ thing was a mere selection of the nature? Reference to Talmud means some link to God is there after all, but in different eras difference civilizations have shown great intelligence, not was it all remained to some selected few people, so its not necessarily due to studying of Talmud.

    I also don’t agree with the modern IQ tests, they are mostly Math tests. Does this mean a person bad at Maths will always have bad IQ? Then there is also a thing called spirituality, which heavily affects a persons intellect. Today when the religious institutions have gone corrupt, this most vital aspect of our lives has also vanished, but in the history, it did also played a big role in deciding which nations were smarter than others, and favored by the true God onto others, and is favored, and will be favored in future.

    Also, I always wonder, does swearing, rudeness, tattoos and display of too much skin (for women, especially in today’s age) in anyways reflects a persons low IQ?

  43. AlanJ

    When you do an exhaustive search in the Universe, with discrimination claiming Neti, Neti [Not This, Not This] you are left with only one thing. And that is GOD.

    There is another saying “Only GOD is real”.

    I would like your analysis of Billy Joel’s ” The Stranger” Song.

    Shalom that is PARAB-BRAHMAN

  44. AlanJ

    Dota
    September 5, 2011 at 10:38 PM

    This is a fair point. Indian castes are endogamous and as such each caste should have its own curve. I wouldn’t be surprised if the average Brahmin IQ is above 110 as the bastards have monopolized literacy over the past 2000 years.

    “Not all Brahmins are GODS; But all GODS are Brahmins”

    “Bring it on you Bastards”

  45. I would say a big difference between Jews and European-descended people is that Jewish culture stresses delaying gratification to a much greater degree. That gives greater continuity to thought, greater discipline, and more focus to any pursuit. Also, because Jews living in Europe were prone to attack they would have to carefully consider any course of action to see where it might lead them. This selected for people who knew how to evaluate carefully. Those who were best at this tended to pass on their genes.
    Much of what I read about Jews on the Internet is either totally or partially untrue. Jews are and have been the most defamed group on this planet, but it’s ok if it keeps coming; it’s just strengthening the Jewish gene pool as it always has.

    BTW, if you go to Israel, which is about 50% Ashkenazi, you will find very physically fit and muscular Jews. Israelis value intelligence, but they also value strength and heroic action. Zionism stressed a return to a more normal existence that had been distorted by the conditions of the Diaspora.

  46. maybe brains arn’t everything?

    European civilisation has held sway globally for a long time. The Anglo sphere pretty much dominates the world, first the British Empire, now it’s offspring the United States.

  47. Urahara1

    I wouldn’t put Brahmins up to 120, but they are at least 103 on the IQ scale. Brahmins pretty much run India despite consisting of 1-2% of the entire population. Yes, I’m a Brahmin and my IQ is approximately 140 (according to Mensa). I’m an anomaly though.

    • yeahright

      That’s impossible, because Indian Americans were tested at 112 and they are mostly merchants, and they win the spelling bees and the beat the Jews in the Diamond exchange in Antwerp. The Tamil Brahmins are the 120 level, they’re just 2 million in numbers, but have more Nobel prizes in Physics and Chemistry than even the smartest Chinese. The average Brahmin is 100 though, the average West Bengali is 120 too, especially in verbal considering that they won so many Nobel prizes in Economics and Physics, while the Tamil Brahmins are reared towards visual, quantitative and computer programming. Its even proven from NASA that Vedic Sanskrit is the most suitable language for artificial intelligence.

    • yeahright7209

      The average Brahmin is 100 though, the average West Bengali is 120 too, especially in verbal considering that they won so many Nobel prizes in Economics and Physics, while the Tamil Brahmins are reared towards visual, quantitative and computer programming. Its even proven from NASA that Vedic Sanskrit is the most suitable language for artificial intelligence.

  48. sapiosexual are sexually attracted to a person for their intelligence. Some are attracted to power, money, intelligence, looks. Some are even attracted to weak, disturbed, powerless people.
    You have got all facts wrong. People can be attracted to whoever they want to be attracted to. You cant dictate that. Moreover, there are different kinds of intelligence, IQ was one such measure which was invented lot of years ago. IQ is losing its importance as we see lot of successful people whose IQ is less but still end up being successful.

  49. Liv

    Wow! I have no idea how I stumbled here, but an interesting conversation Besides the idiot antisemitic big brain who said that Jewish poets suck, and that they suck in visual arts & fiction: I guess he never heard of painters: Pissaro,Modigliani,Frida Kahlo? Authors/thinkers: J. D. Salinger-The Catcher in the Rye, Isaac Asimov, Carl Sagan,Shell Silverstein, Einstein, Spinoza.etc. And musician/composers: Benny Goodman, Herb Alpert, Joey Ramone, Felix Mendelson, Perry Farrell of Jane’s Addiction-I rest my case!
    IQ does seem to pass through DNA but what stimulates DNA changes. possibly the fact that Jewish population is one of the oldest literate peoples of the world. That analytical thinking was even encouraged in their Bible. Hence Jacob changed his name to Isra- el: meaning to wrestle with God= Question even God & think of everything. I think the value of education for thousands of years have changed their DNA, perhaps.

    NOW in terms of Jewish women finding highly intelligent men sexy? well, I would have argued against this a few years ago- but I have been proven wrong.Three ( a couple more;) men that I would have never been attracted to regularly; in terms of what each individual finds attractive, ended up being attractive to me because of their brains.Couldn’t get enough of them! Looks can fade, but with these guys, their relationships with me have been most meaningful. No they aren’t ugly, or anything, but just not my type as guys I would normally turn my head to look at. But I also find that intelligence does not make one a nice compassionate warm individual -that comes from somewhere else. So is it overrated? yes and no. Could I be with a guy that didn’t understand my thought process? no. In fact I usually keep all my real thoughts to myself and just play the nice” pretty ” (as told by others) woman. Looks can be deceiving both ways ;)
    From dumb looking woman (Jewish) here with IQ of 138.

    • ishmael

      Do Jews do well in the fields of architecture, engineering, craftsmanship and practical sciences ? These skills, engineering in particular, always seemed to be more white dominated. I’m curious how Jewish people view these professions.

      • Gay State Girl

        Ismael
        Many ultra orthodox jews prefer to study practical subjects rather than humanities, as they feel that exposure to other philosophies will undermine their devotion to judaism. I know several Haredi boys of my generation who have graduated or are currently enrolled in engineering or architectural school. Haredi girls study nursing and other health professions. The Lubavicher rebbe was trained as an engineer at the Sorbonne.

      • Liv

        Yes they do. In fact most of the foreighn artisans in Rome were Jews who lived in what is now called Trastevere neighborhood. One of the things they excelled in was glass making & many times in history Romans called what we now call “Roman Glass” Glass Judaica. This is not to say that all people who.ate Jewish are genius. Many of the ultra orthodox intermarry because they are so.against anyone else; the.results of mental retardation & plain abnormal children with physical & mental problems are staggering. They hide this very ugly reality but ate to stuck in the past to listen to doctors. You will find anywhere around the world where it’s ok to marry & procreate with relatives, that the intellect drops & fast! I have worked with an Arab community where I witnessed the same; they wouldnt listen, taking it as a personal.offence to their culture- but here again the parents were already products of generations of inbreeding. The sick, mentally slow babies just kept being born. It’s heartbreaking.

  50. OBSERVER

    Why China can not produce any great scientist,inventor,economist working at their home while the Bengal region and it’s capital city Kolkata has produced more Nobel,Oscar,Grammy than any other city in Asia.

    In 4 different category(excluding peace) it has won Asia’s first Nobel prize and other luminaries like Bengali polymath and inventor Sir JC Bose,physicist Satyendra Bose(whose work has already brought 10 Nobel prize winners,known for boson partcle and many other),current test tube baby baby technique creator of the world Subhas Mukhopadhya,or greatest structural engineer of 20th century Fazlur Rahmn khan,you tube co fonnder Jawed Karim,micro credit pioneer MD.Yunus,,Amar Bose(Bose speaker) and many others…

    The comparison between Chinese or Jewish is a real joke considering the fact In next 500 years China will not match what Jewish have already achieved in last 100 years.

  51. Jingo

    Sure and the other thing you have to factor in, is the effects of porn on global female tastes. If you are black or hispanic and are stupid, have a drug business or a hip hop label, you might not appeal to the woman wanting brains, but you would be respected and desired among the large vagina crowd and you may find that being a porn star allows you to make much more money than the average small dicked brainy guy. In america today because of porn, your prong size is the measure of manhood.
    God has sort of created a world where the arrogance and intelligence of the caucasian or asian is humbled by the size of negroid and latino mixes.
    measure of your manhood. Effectively it means that no one can boast before God. You might be a genius and gifted in a variety of skills, but the large black man will put you to shame and your girlfriend might want him for his one great gift which eclipses all your others.

    My guess is when chinas internet becomes more porn tolerant, then you will see chinese women going more for western size and God help the Chinese men then. Itelligence does not always satisfy sexually!!
    I agree that brains is probably better, but you can´t police the genetic flow of largesse into china. It is inevitable that the chinese women, even though they only need small penises, are going to become hooked on largeness.

  52. Kim

    You are a narcissist with “hot for my brains” because underneath it all you know how painful you are to look at.
    Men who have fetishes for certain races are just racists, the women know this and dislike you in secret, they know you are relating not to them but their race.

  53. Guys, look at this video of a very successful overseas’ chinese person’s view on eugenics in ancient china

  54. gsghjdgghasd

    The writer is most likely Jewish…

  55. Interesting.

    I’ve always done well with Asian chicks, yet simultaneously, I can literally breathe the antipathy from Jewish women. Jewish women seriously have this innate dislike of me!!!!

    I was especially aware of this on my last job. I had a very “close” Asian girlfriend who no one knew I was dating. Being Asian, this Jewish bitch got along with her. Not knowing our alliance, she told my gf shit she felt about me all the time (workwise). And I never knew her from Adam (so to speak). Fucking JAPs hate me :(

  56. Henry Winslow

    Some cultural and population subsets of American “white” with some degree of endogamy in their breeding cultures are interesting to look at and may be a more useful proxy for comparison to jews.

    Mormons, oft derided by some here, test around 106 in IQ. Their leadership has much higher scores similar to the New England gentry from which they derive genealogically and culturally (Congregationalists later became Unitarian, Episcopalian and in some cases Mormon in the 19th c.).

    Episcopalians, Unitarians, and Quakers often outperform jews on both math and verbal components of SAT testing and IQ tests (see Steve Sailer for details).

    Whites gaining admission to Harvard, ceteris paribus, outperform jews in academic achievement routinely and consistently.

  57. Cplusk

    I was reading about the Ashkenazi lately and i learned that maternally they are %85-90 Italian and paternally almost completely Jewish. Now this means that Ashkenazi today are around %40-50 Italian.
    We also know that iq of the mixed race children are somewhere between two races (let’s say white iq-100/black iq-90 mixed children iq will be=95) If the full Jewish Ashkenazi males married to Italian females (avg Italian iq around 97) and the average iq of Ashkenazi today is around 115-117 what was the full Jewish male iq? Wouldn’t this mean that full Jewish males before they marry with Italians and becoming Ashkenazi had an iq of something like 130?

  58. Daniel

    Jewish culture is not superior to white culture. You make the mistake of comparing postmodern absence of culture in white america (brought on by left wing intellectuals who are often Jewish) with Jewish and Chinese culture.
    Victorian Europeans were speculated to have had IQs about as high as the ashkenazi and it was this society that the Jews lived under and lived off of.

    You are correct in your criticisms of whites today but white culture is the crowning achievement of humanity.

  59. Daniel

    On another note, the Chinese data is probably unreliable. Most of China is poor, so one would probably get the more intelligent flocking to the more advanced areas and being capable of competing.

    The best looks at Chinese IQ come from countries where large populations of them reside (Singapore, Canada, Amerca) and it seems to be around the same as the general E. Asian average.

    Also, I would like to point out that my earlier comment regarding Jewish intellectuals pushing leftism on the Gentiles is not conspiracy mongering, but it is pointing out that a lot of Jewish political thought is shaped by them living off a greater society and liberal policies are designed to help groups that do that.
    If left to their own devices and culture these left wing values would destroy their culture as well.

    Feminism has allowed white women (who used to select for intelligence as well for providers back when they largely could not work as they were unfit for the labor and had no borth control) to sleep around with whomever they find physically sexy rather than the kinds of men who make good fathers and providers (who tend to be intelligent).

    But I stand by my statement that Western European culture is the best and produced people of superior intelligence before it was eroded by affluenza (reducing the need to marry the smartest guy), wars (which are inherently dysgenic) and liberal policies which reject biology by and large.

    This is why groups like Mormons, Quakers and various other white sects that have preserved their culture have higher IQs that rival or even surpass E. Asians and Jews.

  60. Jason Y

    The tattoo thing seems more like a rite of manhood. Nowadays, if you don’t get one you come across as a boy. It’s kind of like those rite of passage things in primitive cultures.

    • Jason Y

      The tattoo stuff is becoming “bandwagon”. Every guy is wanting it, cause they want chicks, and they don’t want to get left out. However, perhaps, tattoos are no longer for the true “free spirited” rebels, as they once were.

  61. Daniel

    http://harpending.humanevo.utah.edu/Documents/ashkiq.webpub.pdf

    It is less Jewish culture and more the unique pressures that faced the Ashkenazim in Europe.

    Jewish culture played an important role but no more so than any religion, since religions often tend to be good reproductive strategies justified by “god wills it.”
    Hence why Episcopelians also have high IQs, along with Victorian Western Europeans being speculated to have had higher IQs than modern counterparts.

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