Are Lebanese White?

White nationalists (WN’s) typically say that all Lebanese are non-Whites, and in fact, they usually hate them, since they hate all non-Whites.

We get into the issue of who is White. Probably ~80% of WN’s in the US are Nordicists, which is the stupidest and most insane type of WN of all. These people generally say that only Northern Europeans are White. They classify even Southern Europeans as non-Whites, and a few say that Slavs are non-Whites, though this view is not common.

According to Nordicists, Irish, British, Icelandics, Faroese, Norwegians, Swedes, Finns, Danes, Germans, Dutch, Belgians, French, Swiss, Northern Italians, Slovenians, Poles, Hungarians, Czechs, Slovaks, Ukrainians, Bulgarians, Romanians, Belorussians, Lithuanians, Latvians, Estonians and Russians are all White. These are the only White people.

Typically, Spaniards, Portuguese, Southern Italians, Croatians, Montenegrins, Serbs, Albanians, Kosovars, Macedonians, Bosnians, Greeks, Turks, Jews and Armenians are defined as non-Whites. Furthermore, everyone outside of Europe is automatically defined as non-White, which is preposterous and makes no sense, although some will say that Iranians are White.

This has always struck me as utterly insane. The only logical view of who is White is anyone who is part of the European native peoples or looks like they could be one of the European native peoples. We might have a tough case with the Lapps though, who are partly Asiatic.

By this view, Spaniards, Portuguese, Southern Italians, Croatians, Montenegrins, Serbs, Albanians, Kosovars, Macedonians, Bosnians, Greeks, Turks, Armenians, Jews, Georgians, Azeris, Iranians and Caucasus people are all White, flat out. No argument.

Furthermore, there are folks outside of Europe who look like Whites. So we could divide extra-European Caucasians into White Caucasians and non-White Caucasians. Therefore, while many Arabs, Berbers, Pakistanis, Indians, etc. are not White, there are indeed White Arabs, White Berbers, White Pakistanis and even White Indians. How do we know which is which? Mostly phenotype.

A classic example of White Arabs would be these Lebanese women demonstrating against Syria in the 2005 Color Revolution. Most of these women are probably Maronite Christians. Christian Arabs, even in Iraq, are often the Whitest Arabs of all for unknown reasons, possibly because they did not own slaves and therefore breed with their slaves as the Muslims did.

Look at the women in those pics. Where do these WN dickwads get off saying these chicks are not White? What a bunch of tools these WN’s are.

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320 Comments

Filed under Arabs, Babes, Europeans, Idiots, Lebanese, Nordicism, Race/Ethnicity, Racism, White Nationalism, White Racism, Whites, Women

320 responses to “Are Lebanese White?

  1. Bernie

    I live next door to a Lebanese (Christian) family. I thought that they were Italian or Portuguese or something until I heard the grandmother speaking Arabic. I can’t imagine anyone thinking that they weren’t white.

    • White nationalists are the stupidest people on Earth. Next to Afrocentrists that is.

      • Lauren

        I agree the entire of Europe is obvouisly white just some with darker features than others depending where you’re from. And Uranians,Armanians and Iraqis are also white along with Latin America is also white apart from a lot of mexican who are a mix between mongolian,white,native American and Indian.I am half Albanian and half puerto Rican and i am white but hispnic white. Obvouisly some countrys are darker than others. Puerto Ricans and albanians are obvouisly going to be darker than danes and french its just depends where your from.

      • oye sr robert i dont know why u wanted to show that especially the maronite lebanese are the whitest one when the maronite big part of them are brunette any way usually the whitest one are the northern lebanese especially th ones who live in the mountains and dont 4get the romanos they ettle a lot of places in north lebanon i just wanted to tell u lebanese are many religions but from all the religions they r brunete typo mediteranean and white and thx

      • Afrocentrists are beyond the realm of moronic. They invent theories about Ancient Egypt, that are on par with all that Hinduvata crap coming out of India.

        The only difference is, the Afrocentrists seem to have a foot-hold in U.S academia, simply becuase many historians are afraid to lock-horns with them, on account of being perceived as racist.

        • dubz

          If the Eurocentric scholars would have locked horns with these Black scholars over the past one hundred years, European academia would have lost the scientific debate, and that is why most European Scholars avoided any and all discourse, for they knew their theories were mostly based on their ability to dominate the subject matter uncontested.

          Let’s not forget that scholars of African descent along with other esteemed colleagues of various races began to revise the scholarship based on the evidence decades ago during a time when “whites”, scholars or not, openly expressed their racist views of Black people and anybody else not considered white… So what was their excuse? But I’m sure their reasoning was that since whites controlled the media, all academic outlets, textbooks, and popular venues that introduced their view of the facts to the world, why bother suffering an embarrassing defeat publicly.

    • Robert Jackson

      I have a good friend who is Lebanese and he and his family are as white as white can get white. Tall too.

  2. tulio

    They look like ordinary Mediterraneans to me. There is a late night radio talk show host named George Noory. He is of Lebanese descent. Can WNs seriously tell me he isn’t white? http://www.johnrook.com/George%20Noory.jpg

    Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple is of Syrian descent, he was adopted by white parents. I guess he isn’t white either:

    I remember on youtube, I told some WN that there are whites in India, such as her: http://images.indian-magic.com/aditi/aditi20.jpg
    He couldn’t wrap his head around the concept.

    • The Koury link does not work. All my life, I just thought that Jobs was some ordinary White guy, now I find out he’s Syrian. Obviously Jobs is White!

      That photo of that Indian chick is fascinating. She is definitely a White Indian, all right. There aren’t that many White Indians, but there are some for sure.

      • NonKoolAidDrinker

        There’s no such think as a “white Indian” ulness you’re just talking about skin color and not race. There’s no Indian population that’s as overwhelmingly Caiucasoid as Persians or Pushtuns. The Punjabis are probably the most Caucasoid Indian ethnic group at about 60-70% Cauc.

        • Sure there are. The majority of Northern Indians are Caucasian. White is not a race. Caucasian is.

          You seem REALLY hung up on this notion.

      • To me, South Asians are just dark skinned Caucasians.

    • Koury just looks like an Italian. Or maybe a Spaniard. A lot of Latin American Whites look like that.

      • Xera

        would the white chick count as a southern European?

      • Robert Jackson

        Jesus I had this old, old Italian couple that lived next door to me as a kid, they were at least in their early 80’s. The old woman was such a bitch tot the old guy. She always yelled at him. When he parked the car and would be walking to the door, she would shout “Hurry up, gibbme da keys, you too slow.” LMFAO He died of lung cancer from smoking like a train on the porch

    • peter monroe

      Steve jobs is Iranian, but 70% or roma people look like that and are not considered white(the homogeneous population that were not mingled with Moroccans) , spanish people mingled with roma and that’s why they look a little brown.. that’s why they are not considered white. spanish people like to say that they are mingled with moors, but that’s not truth if you have a decency regarding history. the funny thing is that roma’s and iranians are aryan people – land of the arya = iran, roma – indo-aryan people with indo aryan language. my guess is that in old times iranians were considered white because they were whiter than the general population in india, and Hitler used this word to mean what he wanted to mean to destroy and take the wealth and influence of jews by killing them. what is really funny is that their white supremacy simbols including the nazi simbol .. is indian; Hitler stole ancient philosophy scriptures from indians to make a base for the Holocaust. Essentially people are stupid, if you look at the white supremacists they are only losers who cannot accept their impotence at succeeding at something or the corruption in their countries so instead they choose to blame and externalize their feeling on others, that are different from them.

    • Cyrus

      In all fairness, Jobs and Noory are “halfies,” but yah, I see your point Tulio.

      • Sally

        Helllo?! Why r u guys calling us non whites!? Im a natural bionde and i have white blonde cousines, and we r LITERLY white!!! My bff is a blonde with greyish-blue eyes and her brother has blonde with dark green.. And there is another one with realy pale-pinkish skin and blonde hair!!and 1 has tomato flaming red hair with grey eyes and many freckles!!wt about my bro?? Hes a blonde with baby blue eyes!:p (A) my mom’s side has red hair and her bro has blonde hair.. My mom has olive skin, black hair with greenish hazel eyes that turn completely green (L) and my dad has light light light hazel eyes (kinda creepy, but uncommon) my sister looks completly commom(light skin, brown eyes,light hair…etc) i also have a frnd with ligh light light light, like a clear sky blue eyes( toooo much creepy ;D) and her bro has light light light green(also creepy) they got a little tannsed b cuz they were born in africa…my principal(christian) has the most beutiful eyes i have ever saww!!baby baby baby pure blue and his skin is pinkish!!:D plzzz, i hope that i dnt have to continue saying that half lebanese are whites, and the rest r normal white with tanned, + light brown skin… DNT BELIVE ME? CHECK OUT THE DREAMLAND BEIRUT AND U’LL c!!:p
        lebanese r the most stylish ppl on the planet!thats a bonus, remember elie saab??!what abt SHAKIRA? Shes pretty gd a belly dancer huh? And salma hayek??gorgious.. Gorgina rizk?(formal miss universe) ooooo, RIMA FAKIIH!( the new miss USA) haha, take that world!:p
        no one can say that we r ugly or arabs, b cuz we became that 60 years ago!and remember, we have french in our blood, turkish, pheonician, italian, greek…etc my family descent is from italy
        ohho, lebanon means ‘white’ in pheneocian…pheneocians r the most prettiest ppl EVER walking this world!!:o
        BEING LEBO ROCKSSS!!!(A):*(k) (l)

    • Xera

      By the way which part of India is she from, what’s her name, and does she culturally identify as such? Is she mixed?

  3. Back in my hometown, one of the local Arabic Orthodox churches put on an Middle Eastern festival every summer. Delicious food and lots of music and dance. If I showed pictures of the volunteers and churchgoers to your average dumbshit WN, they’d assume they were all Europeans.

    Morons.

  4. Freud

    Robert, I have lived in England all my life, and know instinctively who is white or not.

    All of those photos of Lebanese you published would NEVER EVER be considered by an Englishman as ‘white’ – we know instinctively that they are alien and dark alien at that. It’s a matter of feeling and intuition bred in the blood over centuries.
    But I guess, if like you, you were brought up around Mexicans etc you don’t have this ‘second sense’. It’s something very deep and instinctive – a clinging of tribe and blood ‘birds of a feather’ etc.

    I find that a lot of Americans don’t have a clue about ethnic phenotypes, I’ve never been to America so I can only guess it is due to too much race-mixing.

    • Well, here in the US, there have been many, many Meds here for a very long time. I was born in California in 1957. We grew up with Meds. There are Armenians, Italians, Spaniards, White Cubans, White Latin Americans, Jews, Yugoslavs and Greeks all over the place at least here in California. It was automatically assumed, with no discussion whatsoever, that all such folks were White.

      Further, so many of the Mexicans look White. I mean, the only features you can see in them are Caucasoid features – you can’t see any Indian.

      Later we met some Iranians and we were talking about it with the other Whites. I remember talking about them with my Mom: “They’re White, huh? Just like us.” She said, yes, they’re very White, just like Europeans. And they hate Arabs.

      So here in California, the sane Whites all think that Armenians, Italians, Spaniards, White Cubans, White Latin Americans, Lebanese, Jews, Turks, Yugoslavs and Greeks are all White. Most will agree that there are White Arabs too, probably a minority.

      I just don’t understand where you Brits are coming from. It’s such a bizarre place compared to US White culture. There was some prejudice against Meds a long time ago in the US, but that’s been dead for maybe 70-80 years for the most part. If you bring it up to Whites, they look disgusted and say, “Oh! That’s so old!”

      Nordicism simply has no traction whatsoever among mainstream US Whites. It’s regarded an ancient American prejudice, long dead and buried.

      • aah

        Italians became white only after Sinatra started screwing Angie Dickinson in earnest.

        • SibylNYC

          Italy is a European nation and they are Caucasian learn some history and geography. Also, scientifically there are only three races (Caucasoid (European-Middle East, Indian, etc), Negroid (Black people), and Mongoloid (Far East Asian-Japanese, Chinese, native peoples of Americas, etc) the rest are an ethnicity. Everyone is one of these of a mixture of all three- which are Latin American people.

    • Catriona

      What are you talking about? There are significant minorities of people in the British Isles who look similar to the whiter-looking Lebanese. Catherine Zeta Jones anyone?
      Majority of my ancestry is from the British Isles although there a fair amount of French thrown in. The girl with the flags painted on her cheeks would fit right in if she were in a photograph with my immediate family…
      It’s not impossible for Northern Europeans with dark hair/eyes and prominent noses you know.

    • Wade in MO

      “All of those photos of Lebanese you published would NEVER EVER be considered by an Englishman as ‘white’ – we know instinctively that they are alien and dark alien at that”

      Which is of course funny because the are records from Roman times which tells us of Syrian soldiers being stationed in Britain and starting families. However, I guess when those gemanic foreigners the population may have forgotten. Also, the links between Northern Spain and western France, med countries, and Britain and Ireland are well known. For example, Galicia in Northern Spain is the only area outside of the anglo-celtic isles where bagpipes are indigenous to the local music.

      • Wade in MO

        ” I guess when those gemanic foreigners the population may have forgotten”

        I meant to put ” I guess when those gemanic foreigners invaded the population may have forgotten.”

    • NonKoolAidDrinker

      The English and their diaspora (Aussies, New England WASPs, white Southerners) are uniquely insane when it come to the concept of “white”. Anybody darker than the average French person is suspect. Anybody from farther east than Poland is suspect. They called Germans “Huns” in both world wars. They call Southern Europeans “wogs” in Australia. They’re comepletely nuts on this subject.

      You can just “sense” when someone is not a “real” white person, huh? That’s an amazing talent. You should get a job at a carnival. You could run the “Guess You’re Race” booth.

    • Mark

      Well, the thing is that you consider that only aryans are white, but there are different kinds of white. Slavs are very different from englishmen, so are spaniards, however they are white caucasians. I am a lebanese maronite christian and I live in Lebanon. I can assure you that all lebanese are white. Some are darker than others, but they are still caucasian. In ancient times, all residents of the levant were white, but during sunni muslim rule, most religious minorities fled and hid the Lebanese mountains (christians, druzes, chia muslim…). Therefore their blood didn’t mix with darker people.

  5. Freud

    Furthermore, Australians use the word ‘wog’ to describe Lebanese.
    Now most Australians are of British or Irish stock.
    Originally ‘wog’ was a term used by soldiers of the British colonial armies to describe Indians, Pakistanis, Arabs, Egyptians etc – all the darkies, whom the soldiers instinctively knew were ‘not us’.
    (Continental Europeans had different disparaging ‘nicknames’).
    Not having Indians, Arabs etc of their own, the Aussies (many of whom served in British colonial forces) adapted the word ‘wog’ to Lebanese and other dark-skinned immigrants.
    You see, the general sense is of ‘alien’, ‘not us’, ‘foreign’, ‘darkie’, the uncanny and uncomfortable sense that you are in the midst of a differing genotype.

    • They also use “wog” to talk about Greeks, Yugoslavs, etc.

      All I can say that is that era of anti-Med prejudice in the US is long gone. It went on for a while after they showed up here, maybe 50 years or so. It’s long dead and buried and regarded as absurd by all sane Whites. The fact that the overwhelming majority of WN’s are Nordicists shows me what a total loser this philosophy really is.

    • Wade in MO

      “Furthermore, Australians use the word ‘wog’ to describe Lebanese.”

      I guess the Lebs can use the phrase “descendents of criminals” to describe them.

  6. Ken Hoop

    White nationalists don’t say they hate anybody, Bob. Except maybe in moments of anger. Probably with the same frequency Marxists,even Trotskyites, say they “hate” capitalists on a personal level.

    But all the straw men you build are interesting because you keep the conversation moving. There’s a blogger I frequent who has inadvertently got in the habit lately of building a straw man out of the disparate tea party non-movement.

    Back to the subject – the primer for the White Nationalist movement when I came to maturity was Wilmot Robertson’s “Dispossessed Majority.” Except he didn’t like to use “White” for Euro-American. Because it brought in those admitted Whites who he didn’t believe were assimilable, i.e. Sicilians and most southern Italians. He was talking about assimilation of the group, not the occasional exceptional individual.

    He delineated between “White” on a scientific biological/ethnic level and “White” on the “popular” instinctive level, caring only about the latter.

    • That’s really sorry. So the WN primer when you came of age was still a nonsensical Nordicist primer by a Nordicist, Wilmont Robertson.

      I’m telling you, this Nordicist thing just makes them even bigger losers. If they cast their net for “White fish” a little wider, they might make better fishers of men and their movement might have a bit more of a chance. Getting lost in a Nordicist ghetto is sure to doom US WN to utter irrelevancy.

  7. Bay Area Guy

    I’ve never understood Nordicists. White nationalists are always complaining about how their numbers are dwindling. Well, if you’re so worried about dwindling numbers, can you afford to be so exclusive in your definition of who is white?

    I’ve encountered Turks, Armenians, and Iranians who look Caucasoid, yet don’t look like Northern Europeans. Still, why can’t they be white? Last time I checked, Iran’s name comes from…drumroll… Aryan! Many Indians should also be able to qualify as white because guess who conquered India thousand of years ago? Yup, Aryans.

    I find it so amusing the way the Nazis just butchered the term Aryan. Aryan simply referred to the Indo-European conquerors who settled in India and Iran. Now, we think of “American History X” when we hear that term.

    Some white nationalists will never see the need to expand their definition of who is white. We white advocates, on the other hand, should be more willing to embrace different groups of Caucasoids.

    • I agree with this. There is strength in numbers. I see Whites as part of my family and I like my family to be as big as possible. When I see a White person, I think, hey, there’s my family! I find myself thinking that even about a lot of the Punjabis and Arabs that I meet. Maybe not immediate family, maybe more like 3rd cousins, but there is still something there. We even ought to love say the Central Asians, as they are 1/2 White. 1/2 of them is part of our great family. It feels so much better to have a large family than a small one.

      Also I think it’s cool when Arabs, Punjabis, Armenians, Iranians, Albanians, White Berbers, Afghans, etc. take pride in being White. It’s kind of fun to do. You meet one of these folks and somehow you bring up race. You say something like, “You guys are White too? Just like us, right?” Sometimes they get pissed, but a lot of the time, they light right up! “Yeah we’re White! We’re the original Whites! They Aryans!” something like that. Then you shake their hand, and you have some brotherhood. Our White race is great, and it makes me feel good inside to see all these folks outside of Europe wanting to be part of our great race. Why do they want to see themselves as White? Because we are great! That’s why!

      You bring this up to WN’s, and they start snorting and snickering. “Yeah, wogs think they’re White, too bad they aren’t.”

      I don’t understand WN’s. It seems they want to be part of some tiny exclusive club and deny membership to as many Whites as possible. It’s so weird.

      • Bay Area Guy

        Why do they want to see themselves as White? Because we are great! That’s why!

        I think we are great as well! Unfortunately, many of them do not want to see themselves as white.

        I knew this Armenian girl and Iranian guy in high school and they got mad whenever someone mistook them for white. Has anti-white dogma become so embedded in my generation that even people who look white/caucasoid insist that they’re not white?Still, I am sure that there are Middle Eastern Caucasoids who have no problem with being white (well, if they look white that is).

        I don’t understand WN’s. It seems they want to be part of some tiny exclusive club and deny membership to as many Whites as possible. It’s so weird.

        Exactly! I think that WN’s are going to have to learn that exclusiveness has its price. To be fair, I don’t think most are actually nordicists. At least Jared Taylor considers Jews, Southern Europeans, and Eastern Europeans to be white. However, they exclude a good deal of Caucasoids/Indo-Europeans from their family. When your family is so small, why prevent people from expanding your family?

        It makes you wonder. While I think most WN’s do care about their people (however misguided they may be), many of their beliefs are counterproductive and harm their people in many ways.

      • I have thought about this long and hard. There’s no reason to deny Whiteness to any of the natives of Europe, nor, really, to the Turks, Georgians, Caucasus, Azeris, Iranians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc. Nor to the White Arabs, White Berbers, White Indians, etc.

        The WN’s are irrational about this, as they are about so many things. This is not about science. They set up this fake definition of Whiteness specifically to keep the Meds, Jews, Turks, Georgians, Caucasus, Azeris, Iranians, Lebanese, Syrians, etc. Nor to the White Arabs, White Berbers, White Indians out.

        Why?

        *Because they hate those people!* That can only be the reason.

        Also, they are worried about some of their cultures, which admittedly are non-European. Some of those people are Muslim. WN’s don’t want non-European cultures and Muslims in their movement, so they put up all these weird and fake boundaries around who is White.

        As far as the Meds, they are Christians, and they have a European culture. The only reason most WN’s insist they are not White is because most WN’s simply *hate Meds*. There can be no other reason for this thinking.

        BTW, I am a Pan-Aryanist. Minority trend.

  8. ski

    Where does this 80% figure come from? There are quite a few Nordicists, but 80% seems high. Stormfront is the largest WN forum and is explicitly anti-Nordicist in that they consider all Europeans white; even Georgians are now explicitly considered White on SF. As far as Armenians, Iranians, North Africans etc.– generally most SF discussions on the subject have most people saying there are some true Whites amongst these peoples, but the majority are to some degree mixed.

    David Duke, perhaps the most well known living WN is explicitly anti-Nordicist too, as he includes all S. Euros as White. He has even spoken highly of Syrian Christians.

    True there are plenty of Nordicists to varying degrees; but it’s also important to distinguish extreme Nordicism from the milder sorts.

    The extreme sort claims ancient Greeks and Romans were really Swedes who migrated South; no exceptional white person has existed without being predominately of Nordic ancestry; all good things are really Nordic things etc. The more moderate Nordicists might have beliefs such as: Sweden, Norway and other predominately Nordic countries should stay Nordic culturally and genetically; there is something special about Nords, though they are not superior in all respects to all others (perhaps they say that Italians are better artists etc.); Nords are the “best,” white folk, but other whites come pretty close and deserve respect.

    This mild form of Nordicism isn’t so bad, and has a decent factual basis imo. I think certainly it makes sense in Scandinavian countries, but not a lot for the USA. Of course US Whites are predominately N. Euro, so a very mild form of Nordicism is not only inevitable, but healthy.

    • I got 80% by looking at American Renaissance discussions on the matter. ~80% of Amrenners appear to be Nordicists from what I can tell. Occidental Dissent, VNN and Majority Rights are 100% Nordicist. They are typical for US WN sites.

      I actually applaud Stormfront for being anti-Nordicist. Hey! No one is all bad! OTOH, they seem to be outliers as far as that goes. I’ve met 3 White Pride / WN types in real life who had an opinion on this matter, and all of them were extreme Nordicists. I’ve had lots of discussions with them about this insane nonsense that ancient Greece and Rome were Nordic civilizations. It’s insanity.

    • Dave Coe

      what is strange about Stormfront is they accept Georgians as white but banned Armenians for not being white. Georgians and Armenians seem to be related but Georgians are somewhat more white looking or have a higher proportion that look white. Some WN’s claim that true Armenians are white but that they mixed with middle easterners. The same theory has been applied to Persians to.

  9. White Woman

    Ken Hoop beat me to it…not all WNs hate all non-Whites. We are just looking out for our interests like other races do. If we hated non-Whites, we probably would have wiped them out by now so get a clue and stop lying.

    • aah

      What are your interests, White Woman?

    • You know, I believed this for a very long time, because this is what WN liars tell me. I suppose there are a few WN’s who don’t hate non-Whites. There are some moderate WN’s on Amren who are Asiaphiles, and some are even married to Asians. A few don’t mind Hispanics or Amerindians.

      But those are the exceptions. I started doubting their “we just love ourselves” thing pretty quickly and then I spent months testing the theory. I’m still testing it. It’s a lie. WN’s, in general, simply hate everyone who isn’t White! Period! And in most cases, that even includes other Whites like Yugoslavs, Southern Italians, Iberians, Greeks, Armenians, Iranians, Arabs, Turks, etc.

      It’s true! They do hate everyone who’s not White! I’ve seen it with my own eyes more times than I can count.

  10. Freud

    Robert,
    For some unfathomable reason you laud Punjabis as being ‘white’.
    They simply are NOT.Their skin is beige.They have black hair.They have black eyes.Genetic evidence tells us that they cluster far away from Europeans.They act different to whites.They think different to whites.They have a different religion to whites.They have a different culture to whites.They smell different.Their facial features are different.
    – And I thought you studied anthropology……sheesh, is it you or your professors who are at fault?
    Anyway, when the British government saw fir to dump millions of Punjabis upon Albion’s shore considerable hostility arose from the natives instantaneously.Maybe they never held ‘anthropology degrees’ (for what that’s worth), but they intuited all I wrote above and instinctively, if I can be so poetic as to say ‘their blood told them so’, they knew genetic aliens were imposed upon them.

    • Some Punjabis are White, others are *not*. They are really hard to figure out. However, those Punjabis who look like they could be Europeans (quite a few of them, actually) are White Punjabis. The others are non-White Punjabis.

      The White Punjabis could very easily be mistaken for Greeks, Iranians, Jews, Southern Italians, Turks, etc. In fact, I often just mistake them for Whites or White Meds.

      If you look like the native races of Europe, you’re White! It’s that simple. Fuck genes and culture all that.

      I took one anthropology course, but I worked as a cultural anthropologist for a while.

      I care nothing about genetic distance. If you want to play that game, you have to say that Sardinians are non-Whites. Punjabis are closer to most Europeans than Sardinians.

    • Akashdeep

      What r u saying i’m punjabi i have white skin green eyes and brown hair my whole family is like that while blue eyes and blonde hair is rare in punjabi’s light eye color(light brown,hazel,green) is common and brown hair is common too

    • Lola

      Hey dumbass , Punjabis (Sikhs) are aryan like Iranians , meaning Indo-European so get your facts straight . I go to school with a few Punjabis and there the lightest asians in our school and have green-blue eyes . Including my boyfriend and his family members.

  11. Freud

    All I can say (and I mean this most earnestly and charitably), is that you know very, very little about typical Italian and typical Punjabi phenotypes – you cannot have been to either region.
    Also, if you actually study the genetics (eg Cavalli-Sforza), you’ll see that all Europeans cluster together, but Punjabis are distinctive outliers.

    • Yes, see, all you WN’s are obsessed with phenotype. I’ve told many Whites that many of these Punjabis look White and they just say, yes, of course they look White. The Punjabis themselves tell me that people often mistake them for White, or Hispanic.

      Genetic distance doesn’t mean shit. Like I said, you need to throw out the Sardinians. Prepared to do that? Iranians are a link between North Indians and Europeans. There’s not a lot of difference between North Indians and Europeans, maybe 1/2 the distance between the closest major relatives of the Filipinos – the Southern Chinese. Bottom line, most of the Caucasian races other than Berbers or Bedouin are quite closely related compared to distances in other major races.

      There’s one reason and one reason only why you guys won’t accept some Punjabis as White. You hate them! That’s all there is to it, man. Flat out.

      If you look White, and you act White, you’re White. By that definition, many Punjabis are for sure White.

  12. Matt

    Hmmm. In the UK anyone who thought a Punjabi/Gujarati North West Indian looked more like a British person than even a Greek, or that a Greek person looked more like a Punjabi person than a British person would be greeted with frank astonishment, as would anyone who mistook a non-biracial Punjabi person for a Greek period.

    Maybe in the US they’re a small group so it’s difficult to distinguish so well as something? To me the size of the eye sockets (large moonlike eyes), facial size (very full large face relative to head size), nose shape, hair, skin colour are all different and even if a minority of these approaches the same as Southern Europeans, the majority of traits are quite distinct. They’re all really different from Southern Europeans in a way that doesn’t really overlap very closely. Certainly some could pass for Iranians and some Iranians could pass for Southern Europeans, but I think no Punjabi can really pass for Southern European except amongst people who have not seen many of either.

    • Generally, you can tell that they are Punjabis. But in a couple of cases, I thought, “Oh, there’s some White guy.” I didn’t figure out he was Punjabi until he started talking.

      Would anyone in Britain think that Punjabis are Hispanic? I frequently think they are Hispanic and often get the two of them confused. Punjabis tell me that other people often think they are Hispanic. One would think a Punjabi and a mestizo would like quite a bit different, but I guess not.

      I think there is something wrong with people who are obsessed with phenotype like these WN’s are. It’s most a most unhealthy way to think. Walking around looking at everyone as if you are Carleton Coon! My God.

      • Matt

        Not that many Hispanics here, so I think we might make that error as a country sometimes if it came up (especially since some people can be pretty dumb about “wogs” and “pakis” and things). I can’t say I’ve seen too many Hispanic people who look like Indians to my eyes really.

        In my mind’s eye Hispanics look a bit like Spanish people but deviating in a direction towards American Indians and to a lesser extent Africans, or various combinations of these which doesn’t really look like how I think of Punjabi people as looking.

        Googling for “faces world averages” comes up with a page that has a lot of average pictures of faces:

        http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/world-of-averages-populations-of-the-americas/

        http://pmsol3.wordpress.com/2009/10/10/world-of-facial-averages-middle-eastern-and-central-asian/

        The average Mexicans and Indians look pretty different to me. Even though the Punjabi people lean a bit more in the Iranian direction and these averages necessarily aren’t from representative samples (and ignore population substructure), I still don’t think the faces would look all that alike for the average, though I guess there might be some similar faces at the extreme.

        All the phenotype and “classifying” things that some people I’ve seen on the net make into a hobby can get a little mad though haha. Kind of wonder if some people are going round subconsciously mentally making measurements of everyone they meet and trying to classify them into some old fashioned anthropology schema.

      • “Kind of wonder if some people are going round subconsciously mentally making measurements of everyone they meet and trying to classify them into some old fashioned anthropology schema.”

        Matt, I plead guilty to this.

    • I have seen many greeks and they dont look punjab maybe some because of scythian type by the way the punjabis do not have a high frequency of j1 or j2 jatts were in the arabian gulf in pre islamic times thats why some gulf arabs look punjabi or jatt not all arabs look this way the Prophet PBH did not have features of a Punjabi! some does not mean all and all the pashtun people is a mix of rajput and edomite many people have told lies about them

  13. ski

    OD may be seems mildly Nordicist, but not extreme crazy Nordicist from what I can tell. Kievsky is a Russophile married to a Russian with half Russian kids, so the Slavs are OK; and Matt Parrot has said he thinks Italian Americans are perfectly assimilated to White America, so at least one of their major posters is definitely down with the wogs. Hunter Wallace is a neo-Confederate, so he favors “WASPs,” and specifically culturally Southern ones, but I haven’t seen any hostility to S. Euros.

    VNN is mostly crackpots and a lot of Nordicists. But on the other hand, Linder likes Italians quite a bit and defended them in one thread. So maybe a lot of the commenters are Nordicist but I wouldn’t say VNN is 100% Nordicist.

    I think you may get a distorted effect reading comments on the internet; yes there are a lot of Nordicists, but they’re usually the ones that have the least influence. Duke, Taylor, most everyone who really matters aren’t Nordicists (or at least not extreme ones).

    It seems likely to me that the extreme Nordicism will die down as the leadership remains non-Nordicist, but time will tell. It’s funny that even the Nordicism of today is generally more inclusive than the older stuff which usually excluded Irish and most Slavs. It’s ironic that there are Slavophile Hitler admiring Italian hating Nordicists, as Hitler very much admired Italians but hated Slavs.

    Anyhow, the point is that I don’t think extreme Nordicism is so ubiquitous and will likely become increasingly less so. Mild Nordicism does make some sense and is probably ineradicable.

  14. Pingback: Linkage is Good for You: Highway to Purgatory Edition

  15. john

    This is kind of funny, because, being a quarter lebanese, I have always considered myself white, and no one has thought different, even when I told them. Generally I get an odd look, like, where is lebanon again? But no one has said, oh, you aren’t white any more, or you are an arab(I am not arab, christian lebanese are genetically distinct from arab muslim lebanese and are in a different haplogroup). And people have always said I am the “whitest” guy they know(I guess they mean culturally, I “act white”). People who know me but don’t know my full ancestry just consider me full Italian because my last name is italian, but I have also been called French, Spanish, Jewish, and Persian. So I can’t say I have encountered any of the biases you speak of The funny thing is, there are full blooded spaniards I know, who are lighter than me, but just because they are from mexico or el salvador, people consider them latino, and many of them don’t consider themselves white

    • Cyrus

      By the way John, the following message was supposed to be threaded to your posting.

    • Nick

      John, I’m also italian and lebanese. And I’m also 25% lebanese.

      I thought that this was a very umcommon combination, and I didn’t know that there was people like us in another place that was not my town lol (because it received a lot of immigrants from Italy and Lebanon).

      I’m catholic, and all of my lebanese ancestors are catholics as well, I don’t like to identify myself as arab, because I ain’t arab at all, I love Europe and everything that is relationed with it, including, of course, the “white way of life”.

      I am ressearching a lot, trying to discover if catholic lebanese are closer to arabs or to indo-europeans (or even europeans). What do you know about it? I’m in a eager to find it out.

      Thanks a lot,
      greetings.

      • Cyrus

        I have known a lot of people who are mixed Lebanese and Italian. I asked a half Italian, half Lebanese guy why this is, and he told me that Lebanese women have a reputation in the Mediterranean for their “beauty.” Since there are plenty of Lebanese Christians, many who are Catholic, it is easier for an Italian Catholic to marry one. Religious compatibly was evidently more important than linguistic similarity. I learned this being around Palestinians Catholics and Jordanian Christians.

        As far Lebanese similarities to other Arabs, I would suppose it depends on which Arabs you are talking about. Syrians and Palestinians? Sure. Moroccans and Yemenis? No much, other than basic language and some culture..

      • hi i m lebanese let me describe my self before i answer u i m white tall have brown hair and green eyes in mexico i live no one think i m lebanese
        but we are semetic dear it means we have relation with easten jew arab assyrian arameo arabi and be proud of urself the european are not all the world u should dig ur name and neer feel ashame of ur lebanese ancestor and thx u

        • Hey my friend thats because u are mixed with white the origianal arameans are semitic people and were also known as hebrews lol all u have to look at is the iraqi arabs also iraqi kurds and arab syrians to see feature of arameans people forget the crusaders were there mamluks google mamluk u will see what type of people they were by the way Prophet Hud and Salih are from the line of Aram when the thamud perished the remaining sons of aram were known as arman they are the nabateans these people were semitic
          and by the way i have seen the Prophet PBH 10 times in dream form and Abraham PBT one time what i saw is Abraham had an oval shaped face a beautiful curve to his nose bridge not making it look big hooked or jagged his skin tone was a wheat color , upside dwn v eyebrows ,v hairline and raven black hair he was not european ,punjabi or spanish in feature

      • Iris

        Lebanese aren’t Arab, They are Aramaic and Phoenicians, Aramaic cultural norms would remain dominant until the commencement of the era of Arabization (often, but not always, in conjunction with Islamization), which transformed the Levant and most of the Middle East and North Africa during the Arabian Muslim conquest.
        There was a movement happened years ago for them to be part of Europe but nothing happened.
        So originally Lebanese are not Arab.

  16. Cyrus

    One quarter = LOL! :D

    LMFAO!!! :D

    You ain’t Lebanese or “Arab” because, well, you ain’t.

    I am 1/4 Irish. I know absolute shit about the Irish and their culture. No one has EVER pegged me for Irish.

    You know why?

    Because I ain’t Irish.

    Do us all a favor. Don’t talk about what you don’t know.

    • Poinsettia

      Im 1/4 Lebanese like John. The rest of my known geno is from France. I look like a lot of other people from the “Mediterranean region.” I live in Lebanon. Nobody has ever thought/claimed that Im anything but Lebanese here. Wallah Im Lebanese. Wallah John is Lebanese and if he came here to Lebanon he would be celebrated and greeted as a Lebanese man. Wallah. But Im sure Ireland isn’t as welcoming to their 25%ers as they are here and maybe thats why you sound like a bitter little prick….

      “Do us all a favor.” Dont talk about what you only ethnocentrically know………asshole.

      • Cyrus

        If he doesn’t speak Arabic…He wouldn’t.

        Listen whore/asshole, go back and read the thread. If you are living in Lebanon, speaking Arabic, and fitting right in…You are Lebanese. That is a far motherfucking cry from some white American that is 1/4 Armenian or Lebanese whatever, speaks a lick of the language, claiming to be “ethnic.”

        Now, fuck off!

        • Bay Area Guy

          That is a far motherfucking cry from some white American that is 1/4 Armenian or Lebanese whatever, speaks a lick of the language, claiming to be “ethnic.”

          THANK YOU, Cyrus!

          I get sooooo pissed when white people claim to be “ethnic” or “not really white” on account of having a little Middle Eastern or “Latin” ancestry.

          These people want to have their cake and eat it too. On the one hand, since they look white, they can blend in with white people. But when they want to wash themselves of whiteness for social purposes, they play the “ethnic” card.

    • Martincho

      What if ur external look is of an Irish guy? Or if Robert’s look is of a lebanese?
      Robert de Niro is 1/4 Italian … but he looks like one!
      And many people with 3/4 Italian and 1/4 Spanish, may look like an Spanish… So?

  17. martin

    What about argentinians? For example, Im 80% of italian origin. Most of the ppl here has northern Italy blood and Spanish ( including basques, catalunyans). Also we have a strong arab community, from Syria and Lebanon, and a strong german comunity too. Are we the real melting pot?

  18. Arabic Man

    For sure Arab people not consider them selves as whites. We hate to consider ourselves as white.
    We are Arabs but not white and no different between white and black people in Arabic culture and we proud about that. We know most of Arabs can consider as Caucasian but not white for sure Arabs aren’t hop to be white we proud to classified as Arabs. The white people just who origin from Europe not all people who look light skin. Finlay for sure we are not white and we proud to be Arabs and we hop in US to classified Arabs as Arab race not white.

    • Cosmos

      You are a troll. Stop pretending to be an Arab. It’s obvious you intentionally misspelled a few words there.
      PS. I’m sure there are Arabs that don’t consider themselves white, however, we’re talking about the few that do and really are.

      • Cyrus

        In the U.S nowadays, not a whole lot of people consider Arabs as “White,” unless they have a little bit of an education.

      • Iris

        I agree…

        By the way, according to the US Census standards , Lebanese are considered white / white ethnics.

  19. Arabic Man

    Mr cosmos don’t called me troll again because i can reach you and …….

    Arabs are not white the government should consider arabs as arab race.
    Okay if you consider yourself as white why white american not consider lebanese as white why white American Treated Arabs discriminated in US you know why just because they have arab descent. Most of white people not consider lebanese as white but i know lebanese are more intelligent than white people. Finally you check many forum at web site most of white people not consider lebanese as white they consider them as Middle Eastern.

    • Cyrus

      Yes, the term “Middle Eastern” is thrown around in an ethnic context here in the U.S, so the term certainly has merit. Even if everyone “Middle Eastern” fights tooth and nail not to be labeled as such.

  20. Bagratuni To The Rescue

    What has this come down too???

    First of all. Jew’s are not a race. Caucasoid is a race. Jewry is and IDEALOGY. Judaism is a Religion(a religion that happens to think that if you mother has jewish blood, your jewish, what does it mean to be jewish exactly, even jews don’t know, I for sure can’t tell you.) but genetically it is the male that carries lineage! the Y gene is the only distinct gene. PERIOD. IT. End of story. So what makes you different from other humans? Your “Y” gene. Women… your outta luck. We can create the case where most women who stay in a culture retain certain genetic phenotypes, and the X chromosome evolves less slowly. Men are the only ones who carry lineage.
    Do people evolve, accustomed to their environment with a minute percentage of mutation every generation? YES. Connect the dots. Your arguments are hopeless. Lets pretend were still arguing using your theories.
    So lets take a friend of mine who considers himself full white for example, he has what he calls white skin, far pinker than mine. Then lets take his ideology and hold him accountable. He always calls himself white. Finally I asked him whats your heritage, and he chocked. He didn’t know. He came back after asking his parents questions. Keep in mind he thought he was Irish/German descent but that was a guess he wasn’t sure. His phenotypes are Brown Eyes, Brown Hair, Pink/Pale Skin, Hairless, Moderate nose, lower cheekbones, thin eye lashes. His family is high members of KKK, the biggest WN’s of all. Only to come back after calling me… not white. He finds out his mother is half Native American. Isn’t that a revelation for him?
    Wake up you kookoo brains. Even culture doesn’t make your white, their is only one thing that makes you white, and its not phenotypes it is GENETICS! Genetics do determine phenotypes but genetics also changes, evolve over years, and so does phenotype. Follow me?
    Now since I have proven that your mothers genes don’t give you any distinctive genes, since you have about a 0% chance of getting all of your mothers 50% of her genes for her mother which you have she got the whole 50% from her mother, and so on and so on.

    Genetics determines Whiteness.
    What is white? Well…..I consider white meaning your a descendant of Japheth, it has nothing to do with your phenotypes, since those have been changed and mixed in every race, heck GERMANS have about 6% negroid blood. Also GENOCIDES SPAWN RAPES(ROBBING GENES) Thats why its called Genocide(kill the Gene) or in most cases (steal it). I can go on, and on, talking about who is white and who is not, but it comes down to if your are a descendant of Japheth or not. The BEST WAY TO SCIENTIFICALLY DETERMINE THIS IS GENETICS.

    SO how do we determine genetics? You determine genetics by analyzing DNA. Before DNA could be analyzed we were limited in our knowledge of observations. Using our senses the ears and eyes.
    Eyes- we see phenotype. What are Japhetic phenotypes?Well, no one has determined them yet….an obvious one would be prominent nose. That is more prominent than negroid/mongoloid. If you lack a prominent that does NOT mean you are not White, it just means that thats what we SEE in what society calls white. Light skin seems to be another common trait. It is a dominant trait. Some Asiatic people have extremely light skin, yet their not considered white? We run into a problem here….Genetics is the solution
    Ears- Language, Language is perhaps the best way of determining (guessing) genetics, but some of us reject it because they say languages may have been imposed on a nationality. That is true, but when languages are imposed, something happens, its called *RACE MIXING* why? Because two people no understand each other and can communicate which leads to sex and babies. Look at Finns, Hungarians for example. Looks at Indians for another example! Ask yourself why do Indians have a caste system that prevents intermarriage???? Thats right keep thinking. I’ll let you figure it out, but the higher caste happens to be what our society calls “white” they also imposed a “white” language on their people. Now back to the basics, if language was used to determine your “whiteness”, then all mexicans become white? Thats wrong only some mexicans are of “white” descent. Right? Native Mexicans are mongoloids? What happened to their native language? Spanish is a European language….. So in Mexico we see Spanish people mixed with natives? Yes. So in Finnland we see Mongoloid People with Mongoloid language mixed with Natives? Yes. Are these people Tainted.??? It Comes down to the father theory. Now we know that ALOOTT of people are Tainted in theory, if we follow their societal/WN concept. I would guess 2/3 of world. What about 1/3. What do they do? Marry their sisters to keep Genes? Absurd, subrace mixing is good. Inter-Racial mixing is yet to be proven good or bad. But we do know that Paligamy = NO NO.

    So who is white? Lets follow GENES.
    GENETICIST SAY THE HIGHEST FREQUENCIES OF WHITE MARKER GENES ARE FOUND IN SECLUDED MOUNTAINOUS VILLAGES OF THE ARMENIAN HIGHLANDS.

    Hence stems the word CAUCASIAN- from the Caucasus(original Armenian Highlands)
    Caucasus in Armenian= COV CAS = COW CAGE = FARMING/AGRICULTURE= CRADLE OF CIVILIZATION=HUMAN ENLIGHTENMENT

    Things you may not have known, during Armenian genocide, millions of genetically Armenian people were “Turkified”. Before 1900’s Turks were never not once considered white. Georgians also speak non-indo-european language. Most likely a mix. Kurds speak indo-european. Are they white? Can’t look at skin to determine remember? Christian Syrians look white, speak arabic, are they white???
    MIND FOOD-
    Is it possible that the more Spiritually enlightened you become, the “whiter” you get, hence the superiority, the greater intelligence. Maybe we get whiter because our inner soul shows more, the Bright White Light Inside of us. But Black people have the most Soul? Does it make any sense? Stick to genetics.

  21. India

    I agree with you. Punjabis do not look European. Few can look Afghan/Iranian/Middle Eastern and Mestizo Hispanics (those with small almost of Native American), but they don’t look European. Maybe the odd occasion where one can pass for an Eastern or a Southern European. But overwhelmingly they look Indian. At least for an Indian like me its easy to tell.

    There is some Mongoloid admixture in North Indians (Punjabis themselves are Scythian who were ad-mixed with Siberian Mongoloid I believe to a small extent). I think many North Indians have varying amount of Mongoloid admixture which kind of gives us a slightly different look to Europeans. I don’t think our skull and facial structured is fully Europoid.

    I can see a hint some Mongoloid in the people below.

    Sikhs

    • Cyrus

      Scythian? So they claim. I suppose the modern descendants of the Scythians, aka the “Saka,” would be the Pashtuns. Since the Pashtuns have been mixing it up with the Punjabis for God knows how long, that might explain such connections.

      • Wade in MO

        “I suppose the modern descendants of the Scythians, aka the “Saka,” would be the Pashtuns”

        The east slavs are descendents too. The Scythians who invaded the are were defeated and eventually bred into the population. I remember a book I read by the great american-russian historian of Russia George Vernadsky called “The Origins of Russia” where he went through the various Iranian elements in slavic culture that lasted into the late middle ages in Russia. For example, some of the gods in Vladimir’s pre-christian “pantheon” were of Iranian origin. The common old russian custom of wearing a long pointed hats may have come from the scythian style cap. Not only Irananians but turks have influenced Russia from the steppe. An author named Edgar Knoblauch has written a book called “Russia and Asia” that is supposed to talk about central asia’s effect on russia. (I have it, but have only been able to read part of it so far, it seems to concentrate more on the turkic peoples, but the iranians are not absent.) There are some descendents of Iranian raiders still living in Russia. They are descendants of a group called the Alans, but today they call themselves Ossetians.

        • Cyrus

          Yah, I’ve noticed that as well. It does go a long when to explaining a lot of the “Easterness” and mysticism Western Europeans have long associated with Eastern Slavic peoples. They have a lot of culture quirks and some celebrations you would find in Central Asia, Iran, and even Northern India, but not in the Near East or Europe.

      • Wade in MO

        “Scythian? So they claim. ”

        There was an indo-scythian kingdom in Northern India

      • husayn

        dont think so!

      • its rajputs the pashtun are just a mix of rajput and edomite (hittite/adites)

  22. George

    There are white Indians…

    There are black Indians….

    http://www.blackplanet.com/priya_henna/

    http://www.modelbase.co.za/6570

    And there are mostly Indians in between.
    Similarly the skin complexion of the Lebanese vary…although you wont find many black Lebanese!

    • Those photos were not of Black Indians.

      • George

        Yes. Send them anywhere near any area with security such as TSA, they will be considered black…they are not African black but by perception they are.

        • Xera

          Actually no, they wouldn’t be considered black; the women in those photos in general, on the whole, have features that set them apart completely from a stereotypical attractive black women in the U.S.

      • Levi

        Ashamed to reveal blackness among Indians?? All Indians have those Dravidian blood that brings the black genetics to all of the Indian race including (Ceylonese, Pakistanese and Bengalese). The R1b and I haplogroups (European markers) coverage do not go beyond Persia (Iran) and Levant. White Punjabis are simply pseudo-white… In America, Punjabis (dominated Pakistan and Indian Sikhs) are not classsified as whites but they are placed under the Asia (South) category.

        Whenever you pay a visit to your hometown don’t forget to bring us some Tamil movies. Those movies are really hot and awesome.

        • Levi

          That was my (Levi) reply to the Robert Lindsay.
          Indians are beyond the reach of White category.

        • Xera

          Dravidians are not black, please don’t start that bullshit again, we’ve had so many arguments over this. SOME of the Dravidians themselves are mixed with Australoids and they actually might have originated within the Levant, the reason they are so dark is because of the Indian sun. If you are Lebanese then you aren’t white sorry, you are either a terrorist or a Hispanic and as close to a pseudo-white as anyone can be. I’ve heard those Mexican soaps are pretty hot, some of them are like Lebanese, you should just key in to your demographic sometime.

        • Xera

          Oh wait those Lebanese have some of that Black African blood because of it’s location, which brings Black blood to all of them, they are somewhat also beyond the reach of white category.

        • Iris

          To Xera: Lebanon Right on the North of Israel, I really didn’t know that you consider Israel an African country!!!

  23. Martincho

    And Argentinians? We are a mix of italians, spanish ppl mainly and german/swiss ppl, and also we have some polish,french syrian and lebanese blood.
    We are the second italian country after Italy (there are more italians in Brazil but they are not a representative percentage of pop. like in argentina-25.000.000 of italians descendants in a total of 40.000.000 of argentinians).
    All our customs (food, language, culture) are heavily influenced by Italy.
    Even though, many americans -the stupid ones- think we are the typical “latino” they know …
    Just look around at Ginobili, Walter Hermann, and Nocioni!!!

    • Yes I had an Argentine gf once, so I know all about Argentines. She was part Italian, Spanish and German, plus a little bit of Indian. She mostly looked like maybe an Italian woman.

      • Martincho

        So as you can see, we don’t fit in the “latino” or “hispanic” standard for americans. How can they understand that we have more things in common with NZ,Australia or Canada than with Mexico or Puerto Rico?

    • SibylNYC

      Latino- comes from Latin-from Romans who were from Italy. There are many similarities all Latin Europe (Spain, Italy, France, Portugal, and Romania)and Latin America in obviously language and mannerisms because these western Europeans colonized the Americas.

  24. Martincho

    On the other hand, why do u americans are so race-conscious? It frightens me in some way, its like if u r new hitlers or sth like that.
    In argentina we just don’t care about it, if u have german, basque or armenian blood, its all the same, we are argentinians and that’s all..

    • Bay Area Guy

      In argentina we just don’t care about it,

      I know, it’s because you guys are so noble and non-racist.

      No, it’s because Argentina is a mostly white country with very few non-whites, and barely any blacks whatsoever.

      You don’t care about it because you DON’T HAVE TO think about it.

      “The only white country in the Western Hemisphere”. Remember?

      I hope I don’t sound snarky, but I get annoyed when non-Americans criticize the U.S. for being racist/race conscious/having racial tension, when they live in more homogenous societies and don’t have to think about race as much.

      • Martincho

        Sorry , Bad Area Guy, it was not my intention to criticize the U.S.
        I was concerned about it.
        But I understand your point, and thinking about it, you are right. I should be on your feet to understand you. A friend of mine took a wrong bus in Baltimore and entered in a ghetto. He told me many black people hit him and threatened him, bc he is white.
        So yes, it must be hard to avoid thinking about race with incidents like that…

      • and urguay also are white

    • Wade in MO

      “In argentina we just don’t care about it, if u have german, basque or armenian blood, its all the same, we are argentinians and that’s all..”

      But if you’re an illegal alien from Bolivia or Paraguay….

      • Martincho

        True: The Bolivians/Peruvians/Paraguayans are being hardly discriminated and exploted by bussiness men.
        Good point, we’ll probably end with ghettos of latins like the U.S. It happens that our Constitution encourages immigration (preferently from Europe) but it says our country is opened to every man on the planet who wants to live in argentine soil …

  25. tomm

    Actually I’m Russian but when I travel to Turkey everyone on the street thinks I’m turkish and asks for a street, etc. I have this in many countries: Western europe (but that might be because there are so many foreigners, however especially in France, Belgium, Austria and Germany people actually think I’m a native), Italy, Spain, Greece, the whole of Eastern Europe, Northern Mexico, Colombia, Brazil, Argentina, Chile, the whole former Soviet Union, Israel, and sometimes (but more rare) in Egypt.

    Some other countries people could spot me as a foreigner with ease: most African and Asian countries of course, Morocco, Cuba, Portugal, Norway, Honduras.

    In Bulgaria, Romania or Turkey people get very surprised as they notice I don’t speak the language properly.

  26. hi all lebanese normalmente are white some have light skin and some hae kind of dark or to be more clear bronziaje i live in mexico and very rarely could guess i m lebanese or jew it means semetic relying to our nozes mostly people here think me french italian argentinan and they surprise when they know i m lebanese and i m white wiz brown hair and green eyes while in my town in lebanon u find people blond and some of them hae blue and not only this een red hair who was saying that christian are the most white tahts not true lets put our beliefs apartmany lebanese convert till islam and most of them they didnt come from deert we are the origine people and the native lebanese from my family find maronite in mont liban and shiaa in sur liban and sunnah in north lebanon
    i wana say that our ancestors were trading and we affect the most with greek ppl in the mediterranian people
    and i wana say about the rating for the american white the italian and the irish are not considering as full white like scandiian english and german 1st because the irsih are the natie people in great britain (by the way britain i s fenician name meaning land of titan) and they are not one of the germanic branch and also because the irsih mostly are catholics with the italian
    anyway there r lot f thing to say but the important is our ligt and white heart and there rnt important more than tyhe GOD light and thx for u

  27. Not telling

    I have lebanese ancestry and apparently I’m white. I’m not dark or anything but I can’t remember the countless times I’ve been asked “Are you Italian?” I reckon middle eastern people should be counted as whites however anywhere after Iran like Afghanistan, pakistan and India plus Asia is half white. It’s just my opinion.

  28. joi

    Hi! I am an Albanian living in New York. There is a German unit of soldiers in Kosovo right now.I have heard that more than half of the people in those units, including the officers at the end of their service they take an Albanian wife with them. So obviously they like their look or whtever…. As for the lebanese being white…..From my experience here in NY some of them are really white. They are remnants of Roman Empire. Not all Romans returned home. Many Roman soldiers married and stayed in Lebanon. For others….? I don’t know but in Australia they are singled out and recognised. That is not the case with other Meds. But the purpose of my writing is my observation that Meds including Albanians do not very often intermarry with Nordics. I see more Blacks married with Nordic women than Meds. Is this true or is just my impression? Or is because of the contrast? Nordic women and men are good looking for most part..

    • Levi

      Romans were the people who had Roman Empire citizenship and they were not necessarily Europeans or Italians (for the sake of saying). For instance, St, Paul the Apostle was a Semitic (Jewish) person. He was born and live in Tarsus located at the south of the central Anatolian plateau which was then a part of Roman Empire. The inhabitants of the Phoenician (Lebanon) cities of Byblos, Sidon, and Tyre were also granted Roman citizenship. Most Roman soldiers in those cities were actually locals working for the empire, therefore most of those Roman soldiers were actually local Phonecians.

      Phonecians (Lebanon), Syriacs (Syria and Jordan) and Israelis were white Canaanite Semitics. The white Lebanese, have more Phonecian blood and the darker ones have more Arab Saudis blood. By adopting Arabic language all of the present Lebanese had became Arabs despite of religion.

      Iberians, Italians, Greeks and other people from the Balkans have genetic influence from the Middle Easterners and Northern Africans because the Phonecian/Roman/Hellenic/Umayyad/Ottoman Empires had made the coastal area of Mediterranean sea as a pot for racial mixing for more than 2000 years.

      • who says phoenicians are white what a like they were canaanite and actually another branch of the dravidians they mixed with the people of shem also the phoenicians mixed with the thamud who are from Aram son of shem the phoenicians had interaction with the romans

  29. Joe C.

    The Middle East was once the “Cradle of Civilization.” It’s population was what we could consider as Mediterranean White. Therefore, the range of what today we would consider “Indo-European,” would have included most of North Africa, the Middle East, and northern Eurasia. At that time, Europe seemed to be populated by Alpines, proto-Celts, and others. Over time, Mediterraneans from the Middle East migrated across North Africa and populated Westernmost Europe, including the British Isles; and Nordics migrated from northern Eurasia westward into northern and central Europe. As to which stock was the most advanced is a wildly confusing question, since all of them have had both impressive and unimpressive periods.

    The non-white Arabs really screwed us up, coming out of the Saudi peninsula, and invading the Middle East and North Africa, chasing white women and importing black slaves wherever they went. Arabs are NOT white. That isn’t to say that there are not legitimate whites in the Middle East and North Africa today.

    I worked with a Lebanese man once, who very clearly was a white man. He had light brown hair, blue eyes, white/pinkish complexion, a straight nose along with entirely Euro-features and bone structure, and average height. His “ethnic look” was slightly distinct with a very serious demeanor. I knew another Lebanese young woman who also did not look remotely “Arab.” She was about 5’3″, somewhat thick but solid, very shapely, almost black hair, prominent dark brown eyes (not black), light olive complexion with just a slight rosiness on her face. She looked Greek or Sicilian perhaps. She was much more friendly than the other man. I think they have both a pronounced serious and laid back nature, similar to other Mediterraneans. It seems obvious to me that they are mainly descendants of Phoenicians, with Frankish admixture from the Crusades. Remember, that land we know today as Turkey, had NO Turkic people a thousand years ago. Turkic tribes invaded in massive waves and took over, plain and simple.

    I hadn’t intended on putting this, but once I looked at some type of WN site that seemingly was functioning as something of a meeting place for guys and gals. I couldn’t help but notice that the site attracted very fair complexioned Germanic-Nazi hard asses; while the gals there were almost all “brown-eyed brunettes,” often with nice tans. I don’t really know that that means, but it reminded me of the concept of “whomever claims the (white) nation, IS the nation.”

  30. kaspar

    i’m persian and i’m white. people consider me white I don’t have to prove it to them lol. I have pale white skin and caucasian features so “white” but i’m also asian as in west asian not mongoloid asian.

    I know that there are white west asians. I believe that Iranians and caucuses have a much higher proportion of whites than any arab country. I also don’t believe that there are any south asian whites (indians, pakistanis etc).

    let me explain. I agree with you that you can find “whites” in India for example. Heck, most people thought freddy mercury was euro. but no he is Indians……..but he is not ethnic Indian. he is of parsi (persian empire) descent and not originally from india. his genes come from west asia/caucuses. same with a lot of other indians like in bollywood. bollywood is funny, they seem to be racist against their own people. almost all the actors are white/ euro looking and don’t resemble 99% of indians you see. I live in a town with tons of indians and even the lightest ones can’t pass for persian or caucuses let alone europe. White people don’t have huge eyes like indians and thick jet black shinny hair. Also the indian models etc that are light skinned, they are still light brown and different from pale euro white or even “olive skin” of some europeans and west asians/arabs. they use lots of makeup / lighting to make them look even “whiter”.

    but like I said there are whit eindians but they are not ethnic indians just by citizenship. Just like there are whites in those central asian countries like krygstan because of russian immigrants and intermixing.

    here is a pic of Nauheed Cyrusi, she is Indian and from bollywood lol but she is parsi not ethnically from India and it is pretty obvious. she looks nothing like most indians. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_RVTXL4Tq5jk/TQG09s7aSOI/AAAAAAAAGao/Oi1qngHDuz0/s1600/Nauheed-Cyrusi-movies.jpg

    • Xera

      Right, but those brownie mud puddle Indians managed to defeat Alexander the Great & hold off Genghis Khan, which your great Persians failed to do, for all their whiteness & their supposed genetic superiority. Are you going to be blathering now about how you are an indic-white and you have some Indian features not red neck Irish fat American white features? Get the fuck out of here and yes the vast majority of Indians are a form of Caucasoid, but they are actually dark because of the extreme temperatures of that place.

      • Levi

        This is how many Indians (typical Dravidian) look like:

        http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/3471756/Snake-man-inserts-live-snake-up-nose-and-out-of-mouth.html

        You could easily mistook him as a black Sub Saharan African. Even the winter in Scandinavia can’t turn him to be dark brown. Go to the other Indian website to discover that black skinned and very dark brown people dominate India. Dravidian are as good as Negroids. Dravidian is classified as Proto-Australoid or Austroloid. Albino Dravidians (Indians) look something like MJ, the late King of Pop.

      • Levi

        Dravidians (Indians) are Proto-Australoid or Australoid. The problem with Dravidians was that they never evolved beyond being black (or very dark) colored after the “Out-of-Africa Migration”.

        The dark or even black skinned Semitics were inherited either directly from the African genes (Arab basketball players, sportsmen and many of their businessmen have this common features) or from the polluted remnants of the Dravidian genes who had moved along the southern shores towards India and Australia. Dravidian genes brought along the Genetics of Dark Factor (semi-dominant) along the migration route. Some Lebanese, Syriac and even Jews (Mizraẖiyyim) were just unlucky. For the Indians, it was catastrophic.

        • Xera

          “Polluted remnants” of the Dravidian genes? Listen to yourself, you sound like a pathetic & bitter asswipe trying to feel good himself and angry about black “genes”, angry that you are not really “white”? You’re trying to make yourself feel like a self-important person by throwing around dubious anthropological studies & taking refuge in racial identification terms and the “ancestry” of the Roman empire so you can feel like you part of something as a result of your pathetic attempts to feel like you are worth something. Those days of the “Roman empire” are gone, it’s vanished and that was what thousands of years ago? You weren’t even part of it and you are bragging about it like a worthless loser and trying to claim the achievements of a group of people (Anglo’s) that you aren’t really that related to, so you feel as though your mundane pathetic life is actually valuable; which is of course formally wrapped in “genetic”, “migration”, “ancestry” and in the “mediterrenean” melting pots.

          Seems like you have the whole facts for your self-loathing white wannabe tirade wrong. If you are Lebanese then you are not white, in the U.S (which has changed somewhat) or Australia and/or other Anglo countries, plain & simple. You are either a Mexican or a WOG, not a white Anglo like an average white American. There was a reporter from Al Jazeera who was Lebanese who went on the Daily show, NO ONE considered her White but a Mexican, likewise Shakira isn’t considered White but a Latino, same with Salma Hyek, who I believe has Lebanese ancestry. There have been several actors who were Lebanese on movies like Fast & Furious, and they were not considered white by mainstream audiences.

          Likewise in Australia and the UK, pure Anglo countries, Lebanese are not considered White but Middle Eastern or called WOG’s (slang for dark people). In Australia, Lebanese people are frequent targets for discrimination and are singled out by the white people running those countries, so they are obviously not considered “white”. This also applies to parts of the U.S to an extent, that have not received major influxes of immigrants from Southern Europe. Now I didn’t deny Dravidians are not mixed with Australoids, but they are not pure Australoids, they DID migrate from a region in or near the present day Levant but they are certainly not “Black”, and they are dark because of the region of India they occupy, not because of pure genetic markers. I’m sorry if you are Lebanese you are not really White, maybe in parts of the U.S you could pass off for a White person but in reality you are not & wouldn’t be. North African Whites are not considered “Whites” in Europe btw. It doesn’t matter what type of white “ancestry” you have or if you have the blood of Hercules, or what happened in Rome or how much white & black people fucked each other there, the average Anglo person doesn’t really give a shit about that stuff FFS. But the reality is that, Lebanese & those Medi types aren’t considered true whites in major parts of the U.S and definitely not in heavily Anglo countries and there is overwhelming evidence of public perception that further proves this.

          I am not Indian, but those Dravidian types single handedly made huge contributions in the field Science & mathematics, much more so then the Lebanese & the Meds in the present day. They continue to do so, and are much more successful then them in those fields (Silicon valley etc).

        • african americans are descendants of those who are found in south,central and west africa dravidians are are canaanite with straight hair and were dark

      • Levi

        From your emotional point of view anyone could understand that you (Xera) are an Indian troller who feels insecure of your pathetic Dravidian hallmark. Your type only knows how to wimp and grudge.

        I am a Jew and Maronite mix. We are one of the most successful race in the modern world with achievements in education, science, finance, entertainment etc…. Romans, Anglos and other Germanics have made many contribution to the world and the Jews had played an important part to further enhance the European and Western world civilization. Citations are unneeded to elaborate further as everybody knows..

        Indians like you are only snooping into achievement made by others and brag like hell. The only significant contribution of the Indian society were polluting the environment of U.K., Europe and other western world. Loathe towards Indians as a racial group regardless whatever religion they adopted are common anywhere. Any Punjabi man on the street look like a terrorist and the darker Indians look like beggars and pesky monkeys.

        Jews (from Middle East), Maronites, Syriacs, Melkites, Copts are considered as whites (although not of European whites descendant) by the American public in general. Paula Abdul, John Abizid, Mario Kassar, Tony Shalhoub and even St. Paul were among them and it includes me.

        As I mentioned before. Dravidians have black skin because their skin had never evolved since the “Out of Africa Migration” and not because of hot climate. Even if you moved and quarantined Indians to the Arctics, you would still be darkies even after 10,000 years. And even the native of South Africa are as dark (at a lesser extent) although they have been living there for more than 30.000 years.

        I have more respect on the Africans because they have self dignity. Indians are simply considered as darkies and genetic pariahs anywhere you go, even in Africa and Papua New Guinea.

        • Dota

          1) Xera is Egyptian
          2) You seem to be pretty obsessed with skin colour yourself
          3) Jews are most certainly not white. Different culture, different values, differing worldviews ect. The term white itself is pretty artificial and you don’t even understand the term itself given your selective application of it
          4) You seem to be brain damaged, possibly due to an Israeli shell lading through your bedroom window as you were masturbating to tamil porn.
          :)

        • Gay State Girl

          “Jews are most certainly not white.”

          Care to elaborate?

          “4) You seem to be brain damaged, possibly due to an Israeli shell lading through your bedroom window as you were masturbating to tamil porn.”

          You’re not nearly as smart as you think you are. Use of sexual terms is so overused to the point that one is immune.

        • Gay State Girl

          I do hate my culture though. I care so much about preserving the Yiddish language, but can’t stand the sound of it.

        • Dota

          “Care to elaborate?”

          No

          “You’re not nearly as smart as you think you are. ”

          My IQ is 109. How smart do you think I think I am?

        • Gay State Girl

          I thought you scored 127. I scored 131 on the online test but I don’t think it’s so high.

        • Gay State Girl

          I’m tutoring math to Iraq veterans this year. A lot of them are uncomfortable with a woman teaching them math.

        • Dota

          My verbal IQ is 127. Tested that separately.

        • An Unmarried Man

          Oh fucking lord, are you guys really doing this?

        • Gay State Girl

          My PIQ is almost 30 points less than my Verbal, though. I think it’s around 100.

        • Levi

          “1) Xera is Egyptian”

          No.
          Xera is a pathetic Indian like you too.

          “2) You seem to be pretty obsessed with skin colour yourself”

          Everyone obsessively hates the skin color of the Indians.

          “3) Jews are most certainly not white. Different culture, different values, differing worldviews ect. The term white itself is pretty artificial and you don’t even understand the term itself given your selective application of it”

          Ashkenazi Jews are white Europeans.
          Mizrahi Jews from Levant are considered whites in America.

          “4) You seem to be brain damaged, possibly due to an Israeli shell lading through your bedroom window as you were masturbating to tamil porn.”

          I don’t watch Tamil or any Indian porn. Your racial group don’t look like humans. Only animals could have orgasm for Indians and vice verca.

          http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,311079,00.html

        • Dota

          “Xera is a pathetic Indian like you too”

          Xera isn’t Indian you dyslexic dipshit. Read up on his previous posts. I’ve never denied my ethnicity.

          “I don’t watch Tamil or any Indian porn. Your racial group don’t look like humans.”

          Except you also wrote: “Whenever you pay a visit to your hometown don’t forget to bring us some Tamil movies. Those movies are really hot and awesome.” I suppose you’ll now try and feign sarcasm on that one.

          That depleted Uranium should have caused you to spontaneously combust as a baby, but you were destined to grow up into colossal retard.

        • GSG’s IQ is ~115.
          Dota’s IQ is 118.

          I believe you combine performance and verbal to get your real score. If you are serious, you should be tested by a licensed individual. Unfortunately, this does cost some money. Not sure how much. Maybe $200?

        • I like Indian porn. I have watched a fair amount of it in the last several years.

        • Levi

          “Xera isn’t Indian you dyslexic dipshit. ”

          Only Indians would have surnames such as Dipshit or Dikshit.

          http://www.enotes.com/topic/Dikshit

          Xera is an Indian because only pathetic Indians would have delusion believing in the existence of whites among the Indian race.

          “Except you also wrote: “Whenever you pay a visit to your hometown don’t forget to bring us some Tamil movies. Those movies are really hot and awesome.” I suppose you’ll now try and feign sarcasm on that one.”

          What I really mean is actually it’s fun watching Indian movies because they are awesomely stupid and make you laugh your ass off

          “That depleted Uranium should have caused you to spontaneously combust as a baby, but you were destined to grow up into colossal retard.”

          Are you crazy?

          “My IQ is 109. How smart do you think I think I am?”

          You IQ should be around 81 and I think you are an arsehole.

          http://sq.4mg.com/NationIQ.htm

        • Xera

          LoL This Levi is an idiotic baby-like insecure jackass. Miranzi Jews aren’t considered White & Ashkenazi Jews aren’t technically real Jews. He also doesn’t seem to know much about Indians or Indian skin color. Awwww don’t hurt his feelings Dota, he’s just sad that a big black guy fucked one of his grand mothers and he really isn’t a true white person in the Western world. He’s probably crying in someone’s basement that he will never be a true white errr I meant in a bomb shelter.

          LoL at this guy thinking I am Indian, this guy is getting more & more desperate in his pathetic behavior. Can’t even spell asshole properly, have fun in your terrorist cell you little obnoxious non-white ugly sandnigger backwards terrorist.

        • Xera

          “I am a Jew and Maronite mix. We are one of the most successful race in the modern world with achievements in education, science, finance, entertainment etc…. Romans, Anglos and other Germanics have made many contribution to the world and the Jews had played an important part to further enhance the European and Western world civilization. Citations are unneeded to elaborate further as everybody knows.”
          Give me citations then, I could also give you citations about Indians and how they are doing better in the fields of math & science in the West then your precious dumbass “secular” Lebanese but they are unneeded.

          “Jews (from Middle East), Maronites, Syriacs, Melkites, Copts are considered as whites (although not of European whites descendant) by the American public in general.”
          No they are not, Americans don’t even know who copts even are and they certainly are not considered whites. At least the ones I know.

          “Indians like you are only snooping into achievement made by others and brag like hell. The only significant contribution of the Indian society were polluting the environment of U.K., Europe and other western world.”
          Sure they are, look at Trinidad & Tobago, one of the most successful countries in the Caribbean.

          “Jews (from Middle East), Maronites, Syriacs, Melkites, Copts are considered as whites (although not of European whites descendant) by the American public in general. Paula Abdul, John Abizid, Mario Kassar, Tony Shalhoub and even St. Paul were among them and it includes me.”
          No no no, it doesn’t work like that, because I just pointed out to you several Lebanese who like that are not considered white. You on the other hand are too ugly to be like them because you are too busy jacking off to Tamil porn in your dimly lit basement. I forgot whorish Lebanese belly dancer bastard child Paula abdul is too busy having plastic surgery to make herself look white.

          “As I mentioned before. Dravidians have black skin because their skin had never evolved since the “Out of Africa Migration” and not because of hot climate. Even if you moved and quarantined Indians to the Arctics, you would still be darkies even after 10,000 years. And even the native of South Africa are as dark (at a lesser extent) although they have been living there for more than 30.000 years.”

          No, no they aren’t and yes they did evolve black skin in response to the Indian sun. Otherwise the descendent of invaders into the sub-continent would not be getting darker generation after generation.

          “Even if you moved and quarantined Indians to the Arctics, you would still be darkies even after 10,000 years.”

          No, they wouldn’t, you seem to have a very sophomoric grasp of evolution & the effect of diets or of Indian ancestry. South Africa was occupied because of its temperate climate surrounded by water. It resembled European countries as was written by its settlers.

        • Gay State Girl

          Lindsay
          I identify more with my Verbal IQ more than my PIQ; I’ll respond that my IQ falls within the mid 120’s when asked, because that’s more accurate; My PIQ was the result of a freak accident and Verbal IQ gets more respect, visuo-spatial skills are critical in other aspects of life, but don’t carry much weight unless you apply them to a non academic field.

          Xera
          Jews from the Levant, Turkey, and North Africa are considered white as the majority are decended from Spanish and Portuguese. Paula Abdul is not really that dark, she just plays out her Syrian and “Brazilian” ancestry to appear more ghetto and appeal to non white audiences. Her mother is Ashkenazi, so she is probably very white in actuality. Jerry Seinfeld is also half Syrian, but no one would dispute that he is white.

          Sephardim and Mizrahim are no closer to the foundations of Judaism than Ashkenazim; if anything Mizrahim are closer to Ashkenazim than Sephardim who are almost entirely decended from Berbers and the local Spanish population, as many Jews from Babylon settled in the Rhine Valley during the fifth century and later the Khazar Empire, which attracted immigrants from Babylon, Persia, and the Byzatine Empire, which is why many Ashkenazim still possess similar features to Mizrahim (think Barbra Streisand and Bob Dylan.)

        • Xera

          GSG
          They were not considered “White” when they first arrived in the U.S and they still aren’t in parts of the U.S that have not received influx’s of immigrants from Southern Europe. They definitely do stand out and would stand out in small white towns. In Australia & the U.K and other heavily Anglo countries, people from that region are called WOGS which is basically a slang for a dark European person (in a bad way). They ARE singled out in Anglo countries and in Australia in particular, they are targeted and are not given the same status as that of an Anglo-White European. The Lebanese in Australia are another great example of a group that’s singled out and discriminated againts even institutionally, despite their heavily European/Caucasoid appearance.

        • Gay State Girl

          “They ARE singled out in Anglo countries and in Australia in particular, they are targeted and are not given the same status as that of an Anglo-White European.”

          I don’t belive that Sephardic jews receive the same political or societal stigma as ME Christians and Muslims.

        • Xera

          Well ok GSG, but they are not considered whites though.

        • Gay State Girl

          Xera
          Sephardim were the first Jews to arrive in America. There has been an established Sephardic presence since the 1600’s, long before the first Western European jews arrived in the 1700’s. While German immigrants were treated with skepticism in the North (particularly in Massachusetts) Sephardim were given equal rights in the South, and in many cases were considered more respectable and reliable than Ashkenazim, with Sephardim holding top positions in the Confederate Army. Sephardim and Western European Jews who had brought a fortune were considered to be part of the bourgeois class, and they looked down upon the newly arrived Eastern European Jews with equal if not more disdain as they did with the Syrian Jews who arrived after WWI.

          Pure Sephardim are whiter than Ashkenazim, as they lacked the distinctive, pronounced mesopotamian features.

          Emma Lazarus poet the New Colossus

          http://jwa.org/media/emma-lazarus-in-bowtie-outfit

          Benjamin Cardozo

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benjamin_N._Cardozo

          Judah Benjamin

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judah_P._Benjamin

        • Gay State Girl

          Xera
          I think that at the turn of the century, the Syrian immigrants were left alone for the most part, (as they were non political) and the Ashkenazim were regarded with suspicion and discriminated by both white gentiles and by more established Jews, as many had communist beliefs and sympathies. Jews of Levantine, Turkish, and North African descent did quite well in Latin America during the late 1800’s and early 1900’s and the Caribbean, and were generally regarded with less skepticism than Ostjuden. I’ll try to find more information about them.

        • Xera

          GSG
          I am guessing you are a sephardic Jew and not a Ashkenazi jew, because the second one could more likely pass as a white. However you did not take note when I said parts of the U.S that did not receive major influxes of Southern European immigrants, (which includes a number of states). Yes GSG, they DO stand out, hence some of the stereotypes of curly hair and big noses, and they certainly aren’t considered Anglo Whites. I also don’t think they get the same benefits & recognition in those states & places because they stand out in features. As I said before, Southern European people and the people from the area of the region where the Sephardic s originated are singled out in Anglo countries and certainly aren’t given the same benefits or considered Anglo Whitish. Hell North Africans whites or Middle Eastern whites are not considered true whites in Europe and fall under the WOG category in Anglo countries. They obviously are not considered true whites.

        • Gay State Girl

          Xera
          Arabs/Muslims have only been singled out in America for discrimination since 1967 and particularly in the last decade. Historically Arabs and Muslims have been treated much better than blacks, hispanics, and even Asians. There has been a significant arab/muslim presence in America since the 1800’s, and The Ottoman Embassy was allowed to establish a grand mosque in Washington long before many other religions were granted freedom.

          I am not sephardic, though I might have some distant ancestry as my grandfather’s family bore Yiddishized Spanish names. I am mostly Eastern European but my Great Grandmother’s family was from Central Asia (originally Bukharia).

        • perfectly and let add if u might more information for u that not only ottoman emperior it was the kigdome saadiye in marroc i think it was having embassy even though the oman emperior..i think after founded the statre of israel the relation kind off become sensible between the muslim world and usa..and i would like to tell u one note..read good the mizrah and sephardime history with in the muslim world u would find that we never been enemy for the jew,.in the contrary all the problem started since belford promise and thx u

        • KarolS

          1967? Because of the Six Day War? I think that might be one of your boyfriend’s contentions – that the Jewish establishment started a campaign of garnering sympathy for Jews and Israel at the time. This led to the Holocaust entering US culture, when before it was noticeably absent. Finkelstein proposes that ’67 was the birth of the Holocaust Industry.

        • Gay State Girl

          Karol
          Israel became a public US “ally” in the cold war, (though they clearly had relations before); That was when the US started sending insane amounts of aid to Israel. Arab and Muslim Americans have claimed to be harshly persecuted and misrepresented ever since.

        • Gay State Girl

          Lindsay
          Dota said his combined IQ was 109. That would put his PIQ at about 91. Surely you could comprehend that?

        • Levi

          Gary State Girl,
          Hii sis !! thank you very much. I am delighted to see you coming in for your back-up support, thanks a lot again and best wishes.

          “Right, but those brownie mud puddle Indians managed to defeat Alexander the Great & hold off Genghis Khan, which your great Persians failed to do, for all their whiteness & their supposed genetic superiority. Are you going to be blathering now about how you are an indic-white and you have some Indian features not red neck Irish fat American white features? Get the fuck out of here and yes the vast majority of Indians are a form of Caucasoid, but they are actually dark because of the extreme temperatures of that place.” – Xera

          Only Indians would make a fuss over such things that concerns Indians.

          “LoL at this guy thinking I am Indian, this guy is getting more & more desperate in his pathetic behavior. Can’t even spell asshole properly, have fun in your terrorist cell you little obnoxious non-white ugly sandnigger backwards terrorist.” – Xera

          You are a blabbermouth insecure Indian nigger who’s always pretending to be others.

        • Dota

          Levi

          “You IQ should be around 81″

          Reality is what seperates ‘what is’ from ‘what ought to be’ Mr ‘Jew and Moron-ite mix’.

          ” and I think you are an arsehole.”

          So do all my friends :)

        • Gay State Girl

          “So do all my friends :)

          Implying anything there, buddy?

        • Xera

          Ha HA Ha only sand nigger self-hating bastard Jewish off-spring of white wannabe Lebanese would be insulted and be giving moro-nite responses on himself not being white. You still think I am Indian dumbshit? Have you seen my past posts on Indians and India?

        • Xera

          @ GSG
          “Historically Arabs and Muslims have been treated much better than blacks, hispanics, and even Asians.”
          I’m just curious when were Asians ever treated well in this country compared to those two other ethnicities? They still aren’t accepted into the Anglo elite and they are the group that have the most trouble assimilating or getting girls in this country.

        • Gay State Girl

          “sand nigger self-hating bastard Jewish off-spring of white wannabe Lebanese”

          Lordy, that’s a mouthfu.

        • Jake

          I feel like you should post more on these Indian threads, your comments were insightful. I think we need someone of a different view point such as yours on this blog a little more.

  31. johnUK

    “Typically, Spaniards, Portuguese, Southern Italians, Croatians, Montenegrins, Serbs, Albanians, Kosovars, Macedonians, Bosnians, Greeks, Turks, Jews and Armenians are defined as non-Whites.”

    Where the hell did you get that from that Spaniards, Portuguese, Croatians, Montenegrins, Serbs, Bosnians and Greeks are considered non-white?
    I have never heard that yet Russians are considered as white?

    No such thing as a Kosovar which is a US creation to justify its illegal annexation from Serbia.

    Only retarded WN’s consider Armenians and Jews as non-white like the Stormfront types.

    • Levi

      Jews of European origin are white but not. Armenians. Armenians are related to the Iranians and Kurds. Armenia is located outside of European territory and further beyond Caucasus Mountain and the Mediterranean sea.

      If you consider Armenians as whites it means that you need to include Iranians, Kurds and even Afghans as well. It won’t be wise to do so.

      Kim Kardashian is a good example that shows Armenians aren’t White.

  32. i live in mexico hehe and i m lebanese and u r perfectly white how many people thought i m italian or argentiniana (more than half argentinian are italian origen) or french so i agree wiz u but usually we r semetic mix wiz southern italian and semetic usally are whote but ofcourse not like nordic or rusos and gracias

  33. houhou leb

    You do realize that jew is not a race but a religion right? it’s like saying christians are white, but you have black african christians…
    You have jews all over the planet, black, white, yellow, red just like other religions…
    I am lebanese and consider myself semite and Mediterranean, I look much more like a jordanian, italian, spanish than say a Saudi or a Qatari, i think it has to do with the common history the countries around the sea shared…
    But most of all i don’t really care about my skin color but i understand that’s not the point of the post…

  34. scotty

    Most Arabs I have known, where either Caucasion or somewhat brown with White features.

    There is essentially the OPPOSITE position in the United States however, because it is trendy, for particularly “People of Color” (but some whites do this) to categorize ANYONE who is not “Northern/Northwest European” as “of color”. Nevermind blacks who are genetically only 25 percent black (like Colin Powell), Latinos in particular (esp the Western US) feel very strongly that ANYONE with brown hair and brown eyes “must have something”. So Penelope Cruz (who is probably part Moor if anything), Gloria Estefan and yes, even Catherine Zeta-Jones are not white (the latter being Welsh), because to them, all Whites MUST look like Dolf Lundgren or Nichole Kidman.

    The fact is, many Arabs, most Persians, and basically all of Europe and the majority of South America (not Central) are white.

  35. scotty

    My wife is from Bolivia (she is Incan/Quechua) and laughs at our US concept of “Hispanic/Latino”…as she notes, many if not MOST of these folks go around getting affirmative action and acting so much like they are set apart, are nothing but ethnic whites (of Spanish descent) who in Latin America make SURE everyone knows they are white, but here in the US know it is to their advantage to be “brown” or whatever.

  36. scotty

    houhou leb: I think some of the “jew as a race” stuff, a) is perpetuated by them, themselves, and b) is a reality of people’s own eyes, when it comes to ashkenazis, which indeed, have a VERY distinct look, which people who have been around American Jews (of European descent) and Israelis can pick out of a crowd at 25 yards.

    People would call it racists, but even Jews know it’s true, the ashkenazis have the “Jewish nose”, that has a certain curve and nostral flair that if I were shown 100 photos, I could pick every Jew out. Because it is matralineal descent, that trait is very strong, particularly when two Jews have children. There are exceptions (Scarlett Johanson for example), but you can pick out the look, from Barbara Streisand to Larry King.

    This video demonstrates that “look”, although a few have dissimilar features, it is shocking how similar the facial features are.

  37. jz

    Not all meditarranean people are the same, let compare Spain with lebanone, they are definitely not the same, they dont even look a like. Arab maditarranean people like in lebanon have arab features, while in spain they look basque meditarranean people just like italy and france..

    • husein

      mr jz dont let laugh for God sake..forget the spanish who has german blood relying to the tribues who rule there for many centure the origen people of spain looki like lebanese not lebanese looking like them..ciudad cadiz is the oldest city in whole spain was founded by fenician lebanese ancestry and dont forget 700 years later the arab and the berber settle in españma especially in the south..as i said forget the baskos and the blond spanish the minoritites…u must read again and digg about the history of us so u see how much we affect in the another people..italian they called romanos the sons of rome son of isao :D it means they r semetic and again i said north italia are german people adopting the civilaization of roma and thank u

  38. DIAS

    I am Greek. Let me tell you in Greece we have everything from pale blonde people to very dark brown people and its obvious there has been mixing a long the way. One Greek could consider themself white, another couldn’t. It totaly depends on the individual. The caucasion race is so diverse and large i think it should have been split up into more sub-genres. If you’re telling me Mr Iranian, Mr German and Mr Algerian are all of the same race you are loosing your mind. It’s just as dumb as the Latino Defintion. Look at Pibull and Ricky Martin….Then look at Rosie Perez…They are all Latino but have been mixed with something different along the way. Fuckin Americans always need to pigeonhole people and EVERYTHING for that matter.

  39. somali

    in Somalia we are white africans, we are the original whites, the somalid race, white people are just white somalis

    • i m interesting about the races and i notice that some of horn african arent this too much black and they dont have the same features as the other african especially i lived in africa and i have some experience so would u please to xplain me more especially u right when u mention somalis are the african white

  40. so what

    i always thought the palestinians were the whitest arab i met a muslim palestinian girl that was 5 9 with white complexion and green eyes and dirty blond hair , and then met a lebanese chrstian who was 5 feet dark skinned and has yemmeni features so i thought to my self its not the religion but gentics eveyone is mixed in the middle east but i got to admit palestinians have the most european blood amongst all arabs this is because of the crusades google euro blood and palestinian blood very intersting however palestinian belive they are culturally and lingustaclly arabs this expalins the incident when that same palestinian girl that i mentioned above when to saudia arabia they were rude to her calling her vaniila arab ,roman arab,crusade arab , she said it is because palestinians are not arabs the are cannanite mixed with the phillistines and every empire that counquerd the holy land !

    • if we can make an indepandant race we would made the mediterraneo one..lebaneses usually hold the same features of the real mediteranean without icludint the german tribue feauture might exist in north africa(vandale) or north italy..usually 80% of the lebanese has mediteranean features and almost 20% has real caucasian feature with color eyes light skin and hair

  41. When I was in Australia, I could not tell Lebanese from Italian. They look the same to me. Basically mediterranean looking.

    I am beginning to think that being an Arab has nothing to do with genetics or phenotype. It’s about language, culture, and maybe religion. In ancient times the original Arab perhaps lived in the part of Arabia that borders Africa (based on their Afro-Asiatic language). After Islamic expansion they conquered everyone else in the Middle East (Mesopotamian, Egyptian, Levant). These conquered people then adopted arabic identity and culture, hence today after over 1000 years they call themselves arabs. So if anyone ask where are the ancient egyptians or ancient mesopotamians today, well they’re still there. Only now they call themselves arabs. Of course there are some inter-marriage between the conqueror and the local but the numbers were small.

    The proof of this is in the phenotype. If you look at Yemeni, most of them have rather different phenotype from Lebanese (darker skin, curlier hair).

    By the way I think the same situation happen in Turkey. The original Turkish people who came from Central Asia looks Mongolian/East Asian. They conquered the mediterranean people in Turkey, then the conquered people adopted their culture and identity. So now modern Turkish people are basically mediterranean people who have adopted a Central Asian language/culture/identity.

    Now all of these is just my theory, I have no academic background in any of these. So those of you who do have the background, please correct me.

    • Pepperoncini

      Arabs from the Penninsula can generally be told apart from Levantine people who are mostly culturally Arab.
      As I grew up in the Gulf, I could generally tell Lebanese apart from Italians though there are plenty of instances where they look alike. The operative word here is generally.
      Now that I have been away from Arab and Levantine culture for close to 2 decades, it is not soo easy to notice the nuanced phenotypic differences.
      Growing up amongst certain ethnicties allows one to notice the nuances in phenotypes both within an ethnic group and between the ethnic groups.

      Many years back in a College Anthro course, I read about how all Black people seem alike to Whites. This was explained away as the White people not growing up around enough Black people to notice the differences. This applies to other ethnicities also, not just White.

    • Xera

      The Turks didn’t look East Asian, most likely they were like a caucasian group with some Asiatic blood mixed in. They were some sort of hybrid race in Central Asia; also the Turks adopted Islam and Arabic culture once they ran into the Arabs and there Muslim culture.

      • Hindu Work Ethic

        “the Turks adopted Islam and Arabic culture once they ran into the Arabs and there Muslim culture.”

        “ran into”??? LOL. That’s an ahem, cough, interesting way of putting it.

        Who the f*ck cares if Lebanese are white? Most Lebanese men are male chauvinist pigs. Just see what havoc they are causing in Australia.

        • Pepperoncini

          Isn’t the Lebanese problem in Aus primarily a Muslim Leb issue? Or are the Maronites also engaged in the same notorious behaviour?I have known Christian Lebs and they never came across as very chauvinist, atleast militantly chauvinist.

        • Hindu Work Ethic

          “Isn’t the Lebanese problem in Aus primarily a Muslim Leb issue?”

          Aren’t most immigrant problems anywhere a Muslim issue? ;)

          Anyway, yeah, the Christians are more chill, but there’s still that backwards middle eastern edge. Nevertheless, waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more preferable to Muslim men, that’s for damn sure.

        • Of course it’s all Muslim Lebanese are involved in the Australian gangs.

        • Hindu Work Ethic

          And African Muslims too. I mean, what’s up with them? Why do they create so much havoc wherever they go? My god they should be licking the feet of everyone in this world for tolerating them.

        • Hindu Work Ethic

          Someone has to new-age-ify those people. Introduce them to the concepts of womens rights, equality, religious freedom, peace, love, happiness and all the good stuff. Who knows? Maybe it will happen this century. I’m holding out hope for that.

    • very wise analyzation i congratrulate u have absute point view

  42. Pepperoncini

    Thats not going to happen HWE, Islam is uncompromising and intolerant of other cultures, it seeks domination over all and has never changed in this outlook whereas Christianity in the West became tolerant of others.

    The world as we know it will end before Islam becomes tolerant because to do so is to discard core Islamic beliefs of the innate inferiority of other cultures and disregard the inherent rightness and supremacy of Islam.

    • Hindu Work Ethic

      Yikes! Maybe you’re right. Islamic idea of tolerance is allowing Jews and Christians to exist if they pay extra taxes in an “Islamic state” and killing off all the mushrikin. There goes me!

      But I still say there could be some covert means of changing them. Propaganda, brainwashing, academia, something.

      • Pepperoncini

        Unless you envision a secular pan Islamic power elite that adheres to a secular form of government like the one Ataturk instilled in Turkey, I very much doubt Islam is going to become tolerant in the near future. The problem is an openly and meaningfully secular government is the anti-thesis of Islam because you would have to divorce Sharia law from Islam to achieve this.

        Islam is very attractive to patriarchies and base male instinct because it empowers the males. So how confident are you that Muslim society will move away from this base instinct to an elightened one adopted in the West.

        • Dota

          “Islam is very attractive to patriarchies and base male instinct because it empowers the males. ”

          You say that like its a bad thing. You can see where female empowerment is leading the west. A generation of morally retarded women with a persecution complex that have attacked culture and identity. There’s nothing enlightened about post modern western culture. Islam is only as liberal as the cultures that practice it. Muslims will resist the encroachment of culture busting feminism and it will be Muslim women on the front line in this battle to save their values. That’s something people like you and that clown HWE will never fathom. Despite your mantras about ‘female liberation’ you tend to infantilize Muslim women in the same way that ‘Patriarchal men’ do. Even Gay State Girl realizes this and rightly despises Muslim women more than the men. This is the reason the west has already lost, because women (the incubators of culture) have lost their direction. I was shocked when my lily white Scottish co-worker told me that she was a ‘a minority just like you.’ Women are considered minorities here in Canada now, alongside the visibles, what a joke. Jesus said that a house divided against itself will not stand. RIP West.

        • Hacienda

          ‘a minority just like you.’

          Was she speaking as a women or a whitey? As a woman, she’s not minority. As a white person she’s definitely endangered minority.

          Don’t be so shocked next time.

        • Dota

          Hacienda

          She meant it as a woman, I said that in my post.

  43. Pepperoncini

    Well Dota, it is a bad thing for the non Muslims who do not want their society to regress to some anti humanitarian tribal patriarchal past .

    The most aggressive and expanisonist culture are patriarchies. Islam is Arab culture forced onto non Arabs so ofcourse it is a bad thing for non Arabs when Muslim men (and women) are the vanguard of Arab cultural hegemony.

    • Dúnedain

      The most civilized societies were built by the patriarchy you seem to despise so much. You can find real matriarchal societies in Africa or the Amazon jungle.

    • Dota

      “Well Dota, it is a bad thing for the non Muslims who do not want their society to regress to some anti humanitarian tribal patriarchal past .”

      You sound delusional and paranoid, here let me help. You have nothing to worry about until the day Muslims control the print media, TV, Hollywood, academia, powerful lobbies that work in their interest at the expense of the majority, and major banks. Muslims aren’t a threat to western civilization, although I’m the first to admit that they can be a damned nuisance. Especially when they wear their religion on their sleeves and pray on the streets or in public. Also Muslims aren’t a race that practice a homogenous culture. If you think that Islam is Arab culture then your knowledge of Islam is stuck in the 7th century. That’s like saying that Italians and Philipinos share an identical culture because they are both catholic. Or that Philipinos are the vanguard of Jewish values. See how stupid that sounds? Reflect on that for bit.

      “The most aggressive and expanisonist culture are patriarchies.”

      Every culture and civilization of note throughout history has been patriarchal. Matriarchy does not work, except in the imagination of silly feminists. I’ve said this millions of times before, but the one thing that makes the Human species remarkable IS patriarchy. Unlike other mammals, the human male does not simply mate and disappear. However with the current divorce rates and the glorification of single mothers, feminists are taking us back in time. That is the regress I would be worried about. I assume you are a man, and if so I’d ask you stop thinking out of your make believe vagina and when in doubt, grab your testicles to remind yourself.

      • Pepperoncini

        Islam does control the media, judiciary, law and dam near everything in many countries of the world. The majority of these places have non Islamic heritage and were it not for Arabs imposing their culture (Islam is Arab culture) on the people they conquered, these societies would have kept their pre Islamic beliefs. Islamic nations are pushing towards international Blasphemy laws and want to curtail criticism of Islam. The Saudis fund and export their viruent religous ideology.

        Muslims aren’t a race but certain nationalities are not going to be Muslims(Japanese, Swedes, English, Papuans, Kiwis etc..) while others are (Saudis , Pakistanis, Indonesians etc..). It is racial in nature because it demands the worship of a specific ethnic group and elevates the language of a specific ethnic group as god’s language. Add to that the fact that Arabic was used to erase the identity of non Arabs.There have been Berber riots in North Africa against Arabic domination.

        Islam is still Arab culture, how can it be not when Arabians invented it. Lets see now:
        Allah is the name for god used by desert tribes in Arabia
        Muhammed is an Arabian name and figure
        The Quran was written by Arabians in Arabic.
        Mecca is in Saudi, an Arab state and all able bodied and financially able Muslims are required to perform atleast 1 pilgrimage to it.
        Muslims be they Arab or non Arabs bend over and pray to an Arab and in the direction of Mecca, and Arab city.

        Western colonialism went with the sword in 1 hand and the Bible in the other and Arab Imperialists from the Peninsula went with the sword in 1 hand and the Quran in the other.

        Islam seeks to dominate the world through conversion, petro dollars that bribe and fund Islamic goals and demographics.

        • Dúnedain

          Right now, the Jews are the ones fucking up the West. The Jews run the government, banks, media, entertainment industry, and academia.

          I don’t want Muslims here either though. Like the Jews, they’re usually not loyal to their non-Muslim host countries. When it comes to crime, it seems the most problematic ones are Pakistanis and Somalis.

          Muslims become a problem when they’re in large numbers. Islam is foreign to much of the Middle East. Lebanon used to be majority Christian. Now, the Christians are a minority. Muslims and leftists always babble on about the tolerance of the Ottoman Empire. Yes, they were tolerant of those who either converted to Islam or paid a Jizya tax.

        • Dota

          Pepper

          I’m astounded by your ignorance. It doesn’t matter where Islam was born, but how it is practiced and interpreted. No matter how many times academics/anthropologists state that culture/ethnicity outweighs religion there will always be fools who confuse the two. Islam as practiced in India is nothing like Arab culture. Ask any Arab, ‘Hindis’ are not Arabs in their eyes. The Muslims who converted from the peasant castes retain peasant values and customs, like the Punjabis. The Indians who converted from the Merchant/trader castes likewise still practice their mercantile occupations and retain those values. Muslims converted from Brahmin castes have contributed immensely to India’s philosophical and literary tradition (Mir Taqi Mir, Muhammad Iqbal, Salman Rushdie). You’d be a rank one retard if you thought that Indians and Persians were cultural Arabs. Get an education. Islam spread gradually throughout the region of the Middle East and adopted many elements of the conquered cultures, including architecture and government. Commenter Cyrus once pointed out that Islam changed very little in Iran. The Persians worshipped Allah instead of Ahura Mazda and revered Muhammad instead of Zorastor. The core values and customs of Persia have remained unchanged and Iranians are justly proud of their heritage. Christianity likewise co-opted Greeco-Roman values. Are you now going to foolishly argue that Christianity was bad for the west because whites no longer worship Zues, Jupiter, or Thor? Are you going to argue that Whites are culturally Jewish because they worship Yahveh?

      • Bay Area Guy

        @ Dota

        RIP West indeed.

        In my local University paper, I read an editorial by some wimpy, self-hating white guy, who, in satirical fashion, wrote about how hard it was to be a man.

        (ie. “it’s so hard that we receive 20 extra cents for every dollar a woman makes, it’s so hard we’re 97% of CEOs,”)

        So yes, we should definitely continue to condemn morally retarded Western women and their feminist ethos. However, ultimately, the real blame lies with the wimpy, self-castrated men who allowed all this shit to happen in the first place.

        Even though I still harbor a few WN views, there are times when I cynically think that white people simply aren’t worth saving. A people unwilling to stand up for its traditions and values, in some ways, deserves to fade.

        • Dota

          BAG

          I’ve had my experiences with wimpy whites. While some men cleverly used feminist rhetoric to get into women’s pants, the vast majority actually believe feminist dogma like religion. I do not mind the decline of global Western power, but I do not want to see whites or western civilization fade away. While Asians may make splendid pianists, they lack the capacity to absorb and sustain core western values.

          @Dúnedain

          I agree with what you say but its not just Muslims that have loyalty issues, its all minorities. The difference between Muslims and Jews (apart from the racial diversity of Muslim groups) is that Muslim interests do not run contrary to the majority’s interests. I’d read sometime ago that Muslims were getting into the Christmas spirit, reason being that they wanted the Eid holiday to become a recognized stat holiday. The Jews want to eliminate Christmas altogether. Which group’s interests are a threat to western culture?

    • I don’t think female empowerment will lead to downfall of civilization. It will just lead to a different type of civilization.

      I seem to remember Robert writing about “civilizing influence of women” somewhere on this blog. Or is that in another part of the internet? Robert, how valid is your theory about this?

      Anyway to me the important thing is to get masculine and feminine influence to balance. Islamic societies at the moment is too masculine/patriarchal whereas Western societies at the moment is too feminine/matriarchal.

      Islamic extremists seem to always support the patriarchy. While the Islamic moderates are just silent on this (The female moderates quietly support feminism). A small number of Islamic liberal supports feminism. This is based on my non-scientific observation in Indonesia.

      • Hello there, yes, the more a society empowers women, the more civilized it is, at least in modern times. The least civilized societies have empowered women the least. This is a powerful argument for feminism.

        • Dota

          Assuming that premise is indeed true Robert. I see no problem with women receiving equal access to education, healthcare, social/civil and political rights, but that isn’t enough to satisfy feminists. Their agenda is to socially re-engineer women and it is the gender bending that I oppose.

        • Bay Area Guy

          it is the gender bending that I oppose.

          Same.

  44. Dúnedain

    There is no dictionary definition of who is White. It ultimately comes down to a matter of opinion. To me, White = having a European phenotype. In that sense, some Lebanese are White but most aren’t.

    • Pepperoncini

      Theres White and theres Caucasoid. I used to consider White as an euphemism for Caucasoid BUT growing up in the Middle East, White referred to Europeans.

      I have moved away from giving prominence to the defintion of White = Caucasoid to acknowledgeing that White is also a socio-cultural term that refers to people of European descent .Even though Stormfont uses this definition I don’t think it necessarily needs to have a negative conontation as Europeans who are a distinct Caucasoid subrace just want a term to refer to this distinctiveness.

      My White friends were confused when I playfully mentioned to them that the 9/11 hijackers were White; their response were no they are Arab, Whites are Europeans.

  45. Dúnedain

    @ Dota

    I agree, the war on Christianity is being waged by Jews. Jews are the reason why people says “happy holidays” instead of “Merry Christmas”, despite the fact that most Americans are Christian and an even greater majority of Americans celebrate Christmas.

    It’s not Muslims but Jews like Sarah Silverman and Larry David who mock Christ.

    • Bay Area Guy

      Brother Nathanael, LOL

    • Hi Dunedain,

      As much as you worry about Jews war on Christianity, I think the Jews worry more about Christianity seeping into their society through the “secular” Christmas celebration.

      Think about it. Christmas is the LARGEST religious-based holiday in the world. Primarily because it is secularised. Even majority-atheist Japan celebrate Christmas. Majority-buddhist Thailand, Taiwan, Vietnam, China celebrate Christmas. I remember reading a blog post by the famous comic writer Neil Gaiman (British Jew) about how as a child he REALLY loved Christmas and he didn’t mind being a bad Jew if it means he can celebrate Christmas. Even my headscarves-wearing sister said that Christmas is just so much cooler than Lebaran (Islamic holiday celebrating the end of ramadan in Indonesia) because there are so many good movies and songs about Christmas compare to lame nasyid (arabic style chanting which is very boring and some say tuneless) and stupid Indonesian Islamic drama that every Indonesian get to watch during Lebaran.

      So you see the Jews are even more afraid of Christianity spreading into Jewish society. That’s why sometime ago there was a public service advertisement in Israel, reminding Israeli-American to not participate too much in Christmas celebration ( http://pennyforyourthoughts2.blogspot.com/2011/12/shocked-at-christmas-israeli-anti.html ).

      Basically the Jews are trembling in their boots at the coolness/hipness(?) of American pop culture spreading Christianity into their society through secularised Christmas. Every Islamic extremists also tremble at this. So you don’t need to worry, historically Christian societies are still so powerful that other cultures fear your pop culture. Other societies are still playing at the hard power level. You guys are playing at soft power level and you’re so good that everyone else complain about your culture intruding on their society. But they can not do anything. Every kid wants to grow up to be like Hollywood movie star.

  46. Pepperoncini

    To Dota
    What has your above post (the one posted at 2:21 PM) got to do with what I said, as I made no mention of Persians being Arabs or the continuation of caste and caste professions amongst SubContinent Muslims.
    Persians and Arabs have long running animosity and the former hate the later for destroying their pre Islamic beliefs. It is not surprising that the Gulf Arab nations are allied with Israel and the West in attacking Iran. Arabians ofcourse only consider Sunni Islam as Islam, and Shia Islam as a threat .

    Islam while having regional variation, which is only natural for any global religion, is still an Arab religion . How can you argue against this when the core beliefs , the holy book and the prophet are all Arab.

    Ofcourse I know that various Muslim populations will use Islam to achieve their own goals , goals that have little direct relation with Arabians .Take Uighurs for example, religion to them no doubt is an ethnocultural identiy that aids in resisting Han Chinese domination. So I do know that Islam everywhere isn’t simply an Arab movement that only benefits Arabians. But Islam does perpetuate Arab imperialism because when it expands and or otherwise imposes itself on non Islamic cultures, it is Arab culture that replaces non Arab culture.

    • Regarding Culture vs Religion in Islam, here is an interesting discussion I found on reddit.com I’m not sure how accurate this is since it is reddit.

      http://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/ofk2a/culture_vs_religion/

      Elements of 7th century Arab culture (pre-islamic) are listed side-by-side with elements of islamic teaching. Since that particular sub-reddit is mainly for atheist ex-muslims most of the commenter agreed that Islam is basically 7th century arab culture. But at least this provides a food for thought.

      Now about ethnocultural identity. I observed that in Malaysia and Singapore being a Malay is the same as being a muslim. It seems to me that the Malay consider Islam as part of their ethnic identity, hence define their identity in relation to other ethnic groups (Indian Hindus, Chinese Buddhist-Taoists, etc). They have also adopted part of Arabic culture (example: using Arabic names, using Arabic writing system instead of their own writing system). However this is not the case in Indonesia. Many Indonesian muslims do not use Arabic names. We also maintain our many traditional writing systems (until independence when we switched to roman alphabet).

      • Thank you very much Anung. I would like to welcome you to the blog. I enjoy your contributions, and I hope you stick around!

        • Hi Robert,

          Thanks for the welcome! I think your blog is one of the more informed places on the internet on the topic of language, races, culture, and religion. Due to the nature of these topics some emotional comments can never be avoided, but I think you’re doing a good job in maintaining the civility here!

          Going forward I will try to contribute on the topic that I know.

    • Dota

      Pepper

      Part of this response is also to your post in the other thread. pepper

      Why haven’t Pakistanis made Arabic their national language? Or the Malays? Or the Indonesians? Despite all the noise they make about Islamic purity? Do you take all rhetoric at face value? Are you that dense? Persians don’t despise Arabs for destroying Zoroastrianism, but for losing to a backward and primitive race (as the Persians perceived the Arabs). You’ve got this impression from a few westernized Persians in the west, some of them shahis. Visit Iran, or talk to Persians who just stepped of the boat. Arabic wasn’t forced onto non Arabs as part of some sort of cultural genocide/imperialist project, but it was the language of administration and to get ahead one had to master Arabic. According to Stanley Poole, a certain medieval Catholic priest lamented on how Christians were lining up to learn Arabic yet no one showed any interest in Latin. Most middle class Indians living IN INDIA attain greater proficiency in English than they do in their own native tongues since they receive an English medium education. Are the Brits committing cultural genocide against us? I’m proud of my Indian Muslim heritage, and very little of that heritage has anything to do with Arab culture. If you think the Indian Muslim’s Persianized Nawabi culture of wine, dancing girls and Urdu poetry, as personified by the writings of Mirza Ghalib, has anything to do with Arab imperialism then you’re about as clueless as they come. And if you think that I am invariably aiding Arab imperialism by being proud of my Persianized Indian heritage, then please go fuck yourself. On the other hand, I’ve spoken extensively about how Islamic theology can also retard progress by insisting on the literal truth of the Quran and its legal codes. This is possibly the worst religious idea of all time, right alongside eternal damnation in Hell. Alexis De Tocqueville was the first to articulate this critique and I agree completely with it. But to state that Islam is the Borg which goes about assimilating cultures is ridiculous. Look man, I’m done talking to you. Idiots like you are legion. To people like you Islam is stuck in the 7th century, in a vacuum, devoid of evolution or context. This guy might agree with you
      http://www.jihadwatch.com

      • Pepperoncini

        “Persians don’t despise Arabs for destroying Zoroastrianism, but for losing to a backward and primitive race (as the Persians perceived the Arabs). ”

        How can Persians not hate Arabs for destroying their pre Islamic culture and yet despise them for being a backwards race that Persians lost to. The ” losing to them” points to losing their pre Islamic religious heritage and it being replaced by an Arabian god.

        Arabs did impose their language on non Arabs, just because they didn’t so on Pakistanis does not mean they didn’t on North Africans and non Penninsula Middle Easterners. There are still Amerindian tribes that retain their pre Columbian languages, does not mean the Europeans did not actively try to erase Amerindian culture.

        How do you explain the non GULF MENA region adopting Arabic as the lingua franca, people don’t just up and discard their mother tongues unless there is pressure to do so, And Arabians didn’t just go into these areas as non violent missionaries.

        English being the world Lingua franca is one reason why India adopts it, another very big reason is British Colonialism. Don’t you think if the French ruled India, Indians would have adopted French in place of English. The other reason is that India has umpteen different languages, some mutually intelligible some not, so they need a common method of communications, English provides this.

        • Dota

          See the reason I think you’re a dipshit is because you have constructed this elaborate universe (like you accuse Jaipal of doing) and when empirical evidence does not match up with your fantasy, you start inventing and attributing motives like ‘well even if they didn’t succeed, they probably meant to anyway…’ Comparing the colonization of America to the Arab empire is ludicrous. The colonization of the Americas had no historical precedent. Indonesia the most populous muslim country and Islam spread there through trade, and moved inland due to pressure applied by the Dutch.

          “”people don’t just up and discard their mother tongues unless there is pressure to do so,””

          Wrong idiot. Historically various peoples changed languages all the time. A segment of the Jewish population had adopted Greek and became quite Hellenized in the process. The Romans didn’t force them to do so, but created an environment where it was advantageous to learn Greek. When the Moghuls invaded India the Brahmins began learning Persian since it won them positions in the government (though they still kept Sanskrit). The Arabs did the same. The world changes and languages and cultures come and go. If they didn’t, I’d still be an Aryan, Iraqis would be Sumerians and the Italians would still be Romans.

          Anyway, debating history with you is like talking to Jaipal (albeit with better grammar). Just answer me this, what is Islam’s game plan in your view? Conquer the world? Assimilate the west from within? Covertly implement Sharia upon the west by making small political gains in the interim? Establish a neo caste system with Saudis on the top?

        • Dota

          And besides, if the Persians despised the Arabs for Islam, why haven’t they gone back to Zoroastrianism after the Arabs left? The Shahnameh certainly takes shots at Arabs, but why is there no resentment towards the religion? Why didnt they return to their pre Islamic past after Baghdad fell?

  47. Lions Of Punjab

    We punjabies dont look indian I am punjabi(sikh) and i have white skin green eyes and brown hair. my whole family is like that I often get mistaken for white or light skinned latino and light hair color and light eye color is common among punjabies and dont forget himachals are punjabies they were part of punjab until your leaders split up punjab and one day we punjabies will be free of your ugly dravidan faces we will have khalistan and the punjabies will never forget 1984 operation blue star we will have our revenge on you ugly dravidans

    • phatimabibi

      ” I often get mistaken for white or light skinned latino and light hair color and light eye color is common among punjabies and dont forget himachals are punjabies they were part of punjab until your leaders split up punjab and one day we punjabies will be free of your ugly dravidan faces we will have khalistan and the punjabies will never forget 1984 operation blue star we will have our revenge on you ugly dravidans”

      More of the CRAP you get to put up with in India. Constant threats and BULLYING -And Indians will swear up & down they are not ‘racist’ like the ‘west’ yada yada yada…..

      India isn’t a country or a culture, it’s a mental illness.

    • Pepperoncini

      I thought the majority of Sikhs who were killed were from the lower castes, i.e. ones with Indegenous phenotypes and not the ones descended from Barbarian tribes.
      And Indra Ghandi was a Brahmin from Kashmir, incase you forget.

      • phatimabibi

        Pepperoncini-
        Regarding Indira Gandhi’s Kashmiri Pandit heritage- so what? There are lots of Sikhs living in Kashmir now who fled the anti-Sikh riots in 1984. Not too many Kashmiri Pandits in Kashmir still, for obvious reasons.
        Besides, Kashmiri Muslims generally think they are white, Kashmiri Pandits do too.
        There are also a lot of blue and green eyed Gujjars wandering about in semi nomadic bands in Kashmir too.

        • Pepperoncini

          What I have read from South Asians (Pakistanis and North Indians) familiar with the Sikh riots was that the working class bore the brunt of the violence. And they weren’t ‘White ‘ .
          Ghandi was the head of the Government and her family was the entrenched elite , and still are. So theres your “so what”.

  48. Lions Of Punjab

    please take a look at these pictures they are all punjabies

  49. lebanese white…i just wana say why we as white arent white for them…because we arent caucasian in their point of view..we are white yes..but not completely because we r local south of the caucasian mountains where they believe their origen starts..thats why for example in algeria there r one province called kabilie..hitler was supposing them white because they r deriving from the german tribue VANDAL..any way..i just wanted to explain something else too..the jew isnt race and they r 2 types one semetic as us..and other caucasian as they like it or no..

  50. PureMaronite

    I am a Lebanese maronite, I always get confused for Italian and Portuguese, and sometimes even once got mistaken for a German! i have very light skin tone and can barely last 20 mins in direct sunlight… but how is that? Allow me to explain it very simply…

    The reason is that Maronite Christians are the only true 100% native Lebanese people, the rest of the Lebanese are mostly Maronites that converted by force to Islam and therefore mixed with the Arabs, the Maronites that remained fled to the mountains to escape Islamic armies and protect their Christian faith, many of us are still residents of Mount Lebanon, the Aravs couldn’t get past the Mountain Range’s tough topography and harsh cold winter climate (Arabs could we’re not used to that much rain and snow and so could not accustom even if they had tried to settle with us Maronites) we are the only Lebanese that are not mixed with the Arabs, that is why we refuse to be called Arabs! there is no such thing as Arab Christians, we are not racially Arabs, the bible was only translated to Arabic in the 1800s to suit the demands of a few ruling muslim converts (they converted secretly, notably the Shihab family and Harfouche family) we were NEVER Arabs, I am sick of ppl calling us by the name of those inferior scum! I hate Arabs, what’s sad is that some Maronites are now following Pan-Arabism and calling themselves Arab! I hate them, I spit at what they know of Lebanese history, we are the direct descendants of the Cannanites/Phoenicians, not Arabs, who only emerged from their retarded ways about 1500 years ago (not completely I must add) the Phoenicians on the other hand have a history of at least 3500 years! that’s double and more!

    • Hi my lebanese brother pure maronite..i read ur comments it contains oh my GOD a lot of historical mistakes..the pure maronite usually are brunette as we say in lebanon (semer)u pretend that all of us were maronite and convert by force by the arab bastard..hold one moment..lets back little bit for the history..u rnt lebanese u r lebaneses refugee fled from north siria where u belong and went to east lebanon 1st hidden from the orthodox binzantnion after they destroy ur churches and attack whom believe in the vision point of mar maroun about the nature of Jesus Christ..and happen a lot of problems at the time of the umawits where they didnt understand what is ur problem but he issied a decision saved ur lives by prohibted for the majority of the sirian and lebaneses orthodox christian from attacking you and allow u to settle in the mountain where u prefer to be there away from the orthodox u hate especially after the amiyoun war in north lebanon in koura betwee u and between the bizantinos militaries on the time where they could back for a while the lebanesea and sirian coasts..and being a phoenician permitame porfavor..the phoenician never settle in the mountains and never settele inner siria..and dr zalou3a proved by DNA that 90% of lebanese might contain the gene of the phonician but 30% whom most live in the coast usually muslim sunna nd orthodox..i grew up for 9 years in maronite school..most of them look like lebanese the skin of mediterraneo and some of them are white and blond as same for me..i live in mexico and they think i m spanish italian franch o gringo or what ever u want but they never guess i m lebanese..and for the word of arab..we rnt arab race but we speak lebanese language arabic but has influence siriano and arameo and phonician languages..for example for us whom living in barcelona reprsent their seles as catalan and is insult call them spanish but what we know about this internal things for us they r all spanish no matter bascos or catalan galiscos or castillaño best regard and thx for ur patient reading me

      • PureMaronite

        I do not believe I must reply to such idiotic misconceptions, and the false teachings of modern-day pan-arabist bastards, not to mention the way u misspell Syria (tells a lot about your knowledge of this)…

        The Christians that fled Syria (because arabian mongrels as your people were massacring them for not converting to the barbaric racist Muslim religion) were the Syriac Orthodox people today still present in Lebanon and Northern Syria, they are the church of Antioch, the Maronites are chiefly the apprentices of St Maron and his disciples, he lived as a hermit in the Lebanese mountains of the north, he sent his disciples (notably Abraham, who followed the Adonis river, today called the River of Abraham) to preach the Pagan northern coasts of Lebanon, soon the entire Lebanese Coast was Christian…
        He converted the Phoenicians, he himself was Syriac, but he worked on converting Phoenicians… is it too much for you idiot pan-Arabists to understand!!?

        Anyone who knows real lebanese history knows that Zalloua’s results were tampered with to fit a view that all Lebanese are in origin Phoenician (which cannot be true for the settled Arab scum) (Yes since you Muslims are mixed with converted phoenicians, ofcourse you have some ancestry, but that is very minimal compared to Maronites)

        Second, the Maronites fled to live where the disciples of their patron Saint had lived, and headed to the Lebanese Mountains to seek refuge…
        Why!!!? Because Arabs were spreading Islam by the sword! This is your past you Arab bastard, accept it that you were (and still are in majority) a barbaric people! We have always been the victims of YOUR racism! It’s time Lebanon was taken back by its original people, us, the Maronites!

        Also, the Maronites you grew up with are Maronites that lived side-by-side with muslim Arabs like you, of which they converted some to Christianity, and mixed with those Arabs to become the unpure Arab-Phoenician tan race that they are…

        To Arabs, thank you for ruining our lives! thank you for persecuting us, raping our women, and forcing us to head to the mountains and leave the coasts that we much adored!
        We only recently translated the Bible under the demands of Arab converts… the language the Lebanese speak is Lebanese, an equal mixture of Arabic, Syriac, and Phoenician dialects (ask any linguist for that matter)

        So please shut up, accept your past, stop trying to shroud your trecherous acts, accept the Christians as the original inhabitants of the Near East, respect us, and if you would like to live with us, accept our differences, do not be racist towards us, as we have much more reasons to be racist towards you, accept us, live with us, do not target us, for Christianity never targeted anyone…

        There is something to be respected about a people that has suffered 1400 years to this day, in the name of Christ, our Savior, who shuck our lands in times eternal and created these blessed mountains to protect us…

        • whom r u insulting and calling idiot..tell me where i had been insulting u..any way as we say in lebanon the idiot thinks all the people as same as he is..this is 1st habibai..2nd..not some one as u his heart full by harshness will come and learn me MY history about my lovely country whern u wana make it only the maronite country..hehe u r really gracioso habibai..u r saying that lebanon is the country of u maronite and we came and live with u in force..r u serious or u wrote this while u open ur eyes and still sleepy habibai jeje..than lets suppose there were still few pagan in lebanon resist teir idolater religion they would say oye maronite leave us our country we r the real people in lebanon,,when the arab came from their peninsula and entered lebanon were only exist the orthodox..historically the maronite reach the south less 800 years and usually it was bcharrai tanourine and sir el donieh mountain the 1st places the maronite setteled there..u r pretending that the muslim are barbarista ..one question for the people here..españa in less than 300 years disappear the paganist and convert them by the fire and sword to be catholic..and right now the evangalical christian when they r trying to convert the catholic till christian as them the 1st they told them u werent catholic u became by the time by force..300 years and if there r still paganist are less than 0.5%..and in the east the chrstian were formed till 100 years later more than 25% of the sirian 60% of lebanese 40% of palestinian and 10% in irac and less than 100 years it decrease this percentage in scary way..couldnt the muslim barbarist as mr pure maronite pretend to disappear the other relgion if they wanted or this religion respect the other beliefs and dont interfer in them..almost in 680 the byzantinos reback for while the sirian coast and attack the maronite because they were outside the constantinipole church and tried to massacre them but the marada helped the maronite in amyoun could made a victory and later the khalifa undertake them and ALLOW them to settle in the mountain after they asked all this because the maronite didnt wana to mix with orthodox because the orthodox for more than 400 years after the islam was forming the most percentage than the muslim..u r trying to show the people that the arab killed u and i dont know why..i bet u where ever u wish if u have 10 % of ur blood phoenician..and i m living in my land and being muslim doesnt mean to be arabic..and i i dont need permission to live in my country..and no one tell u to leave lebanon and go looking for the money in the world..and during the national war the palestinian and the druzze attack u as same as u did with them..and u were who bring the fuckin sirian and later regret for this..and lebanon for all his people..and my grand fathers converted till the islam by their intention none forced us..and dont play the victim role..when lebanon el granded founded 1920 only the maronite without the other chistian chirch were formed 52% and right now as maximum formed 22%..the duzze the smalled lebanese sect survive in their town and none could chase them from their towns and their houses..and may ALLAH bless for us our next president si DIOS quiere samir geagea because he is the only one trying to protect and encourage the rest of the christian to stay in their land..from a muslim lebanon without christian isnt lebanon and lebanon without muslim isnt the same..try to show some respectfull and dont use uneducated words or cursing one..when u say maronite u r talking about great people our teacher and our partner..have good day hombre

        • and by the way in mexico they spell syria =siria..lebanon=libano dont try to show u r smart..we rnt here to make dictee examen genius jejej

        • PureMaronite

          Hello again u typical Arab fool…
          I cudn’t understand most of your reply due to your extremely faulty grammar, do yourself a favor, get an education!
          I guess they also misuse pronouns in Mexico as you do right? Your beginning should be Who…

          Also, rest assured that I have had many many DNA tests that all verified that I am of pure Levantine origin, have yours and they will say you are an Arab barbarian mongrel who moved here from Saudia Arabia, the land of fools…

          Also, do yourself a favor, check up on Marobite history, just so you don’t seem like an idiot uneducated bastard trying to claim that Muslims are the original people of lebanon (which is pure bullshit)…

          Also, the pagans converted by will, because this is how WE spread OUR religion, we never killed you, placed you between sword and block and said convert (except during the Spanish inquisition, which has nothing to do with Maronite history), also, most orthodox Christians were immigrants from Byzantium and the Byzantine Empire, the Syriac Orthodox people came from Syria, but the Maronites are purely Lebanese…

          If your claims are true, why are there Maronite ruins along the northern coast of Lebanon that date back to about 400 BC, also, why do we have proof of Churches that were once Phoenician temples that later turned into churches… that implies that the Phoenicians converted willingly to Maronite Christianity by majority and thus changed their temples to churches…

          I am sorry for cursing at your people, but as I will remind you, we have much more reason to hate on you as you have to hate on us…

          Why you didn’t exterminate the Maronites? Simple and stupid question I must say… Because we headed for the hills! Because your inferior Arab genes could not survive our harsh terrain, could not survive our cold snowy winter, did not know how to plant and cultivate in order to live in a land as ours, but what do you expect of desert people!?

          Because your infantry and cavalry could not climb the steep mountains, we stayed there, his there for centuries, wishing for a miracle that the Muslims would let us be! Why are all our old mountain churches never grandiose? Because we did not wish them to be spotted… Why do our old churches all have small, not more than one-meter high doors, so you may not enter your cavalry and rip the place to shreds… we have suffered your bloody racism for centuries, and you come here and try to sugar-coat OUR history!?

          If it wasn’t for later Christian countries like Russia, France, and Italy (and the Byzantine empire in earlier times) supporting us throughout the centuries, god knows where we would be today!

          Also, supporting that Jeajea maniac just goes to show how much of a barbarian you really are…

          Again, accept us as the original people of this land and its rightful owners, I would like for one day, one bloody damn day, to go to places like the South and Tripoli with my family, and not have Muslims looking at our women like they were strangers for not wearing the hijab! That we may not have to hear people come up to our wives and say: ” Why don’t you wear the hijab?” as always happens, we did not ask for anything from you, nothing! Only the pure most basic demand of mankind: Respect! And the Muslim community never gave us that!

          Don’t you think we’ve had enough!? Enough with the persecutions? Enough with the hate? Enough with the bloody stares and looks? Enough with the fact that today, a maronite may sit with Muslims, but even though they repeat their faith infront of us in virtually every sentence they say, we would be frowned upon for making the sign of the cross infront of them!?

          A Muslim once frowned at me for saying Mohammed without adding the [Salla 'allayhi wa Sallam] suffix (it means god prayed on him and blessed for the non-Arabic speaking readers), well let me tell you that I reserve the right not to add the suffix for the simple reason that I do not believe in that, it is not part of my faith that Mohammed is the holy blessed prophet, for me he is just some guy, that I would respect but never consider a spiritual messenger!
          Why do we let you say Jesus (Yasuh’ ) or ‘Isa as you call him, but not add the suffix ['Al Masih] (the messiah) or [e'Salem la Ismo] (peace upon his holy name)!? Because we understand it is not part of your faith! You are typically a more racist people than we are, even though you have virtually no reason to hate on us except the fact that we refuse to be one of you! That we do not want to be called Arab?! Is it too much to ask!?

          Again, the only way you may live with us as one people is that you respect us. We can forget all about our dreadful history with you, all about the blood shed we have faced… put all that behind and respect each other, but that must be mutual… and if you do not wish to respect us, we reserve the right to eternally remind you of how much we have suffered from you… and how much you continue to degrade us…

        • 1st we arent here in grammar lesson..2nd nom propre u can write it as u wish..when i say siria not syria i know we used to write it this way..but i try to hide some pain we got from the syrian by changing the word till siria as the media here write it..i wana ask u one question when u r asking me to tell u that lebanon is ur country because u r maronite..we r 8 with my father and mother.five of us have green eyes and white skin and light brown hair..heck can u bring me one from saudi arabia have the describe i just mention for u?? waitin ur answer..i m not from the city i m from the highest region mountain in lebanon..we own the highest peak in the east..we are majority sunna with many maronite and orthodox town..when me mention the prophet any one we must say PUOH peace up on him even for salomon and david where they r kings in the old testement for us they r kings and prophets and must add PUOH respect for them as u say mar charbel and mar maroun ,.even i dont believe in them but this never mean i shouldnt respect them.. and for issa name the name u feel ashame from it because it is a barbarien name,1st jesus isnt his name his name is yashu3 el messiah.but the gregios called him jesus and each one call him relying to his language, and when there were arab christian in north that u r mixing with them because big part didnt convert and in the south of yemen thats why in arabai they were calling him Issa and when the coran is in arabai the name was issa el messiah….and about tripoli the majority of the city are muslims liberal modern and big part of them dont pray nor practise their beliefs..maybe u r meaning some neighborhood in tripoli and da7ieh where we too as much we can be far from them it would be better for us..my people saved 2 towns during the damn national war and till now the 2 towns people greatfull with us..and u seem to be an adult and decent man..i thought for while u r young man..maybe u need to make DNA but i dont need it maybe if we meet somday by coincidence u would never recongnize me u will only think i m italian or argentinian..and i really wish the lebaneses can open their hearts for each other and accept the privacy each sect has it..u got suffered from the turcos as same as we as muslim sunna too..and from the mamalik where they are most from caucas mountains and later from the sirian and palestinian..even the palestinian has nothing to do with arab they r like us mostly levantine with more crussador influences..one note stop using this word idiot..u look an educate man..and try to purify ur heart from the harshness and haterness is very hard to live with them..and for the phoenician thema u told me u made DNA and u find that u have levantine blood..but not phoenician because u r origen syriac people and also the most important maronite family or arab or sirian like harb hashem boustani houwayek abi lamaa and dont forget chahab family and others..stop talking about the pure race isnt exist even the jew 80% are ashkenazi ukranian..
          mesage for mr rober lindsay..there r people called moriscos live mostly in north africa especially in maroc where big part of them rarely mix with the arab and amai¡zigh marrocan..this people the spanish pretend they r arab to chase them from españa only because they were practising the islam as religion,despite all the attempts tried to convert them mostly refused till they chased them at 1609..this moriscos has nothing to do with the arab they were mostly native spanish converted till islam and the DNA nowaday proof they rnt arab nor amazigh they have the gene mostly the ibirian the have the origen one with other genes less important normally by married and mixing with some arab and amazigh german..as same as this mister pure maronite because they keep in their religion thinks that they r only the native origen and pretend that we r fucking bastard arab only because we changed our beliefs and i already gave him many important MARONITE families or arab and not only arabai but also from the same tribue of the prophet Mohamad PUOH even they confess it and chahab or others came during the last 150years and settle our land as other as boustani and houwayek eddai..at the end all of us from the same father or mother best regard and thx u

        • PureMaronite

          my DNA tests have all shown that I belong to haplogroup J2, the phoenician (north Levantine) haplogroup, so I am a Phoenician to put plainly, I respect your religion, but not the violence it has caused in the region, look, I am extremely interested in Islamic Culture (architecture mostly), but I recognize that it is not my own…

          I do not follow any political party as I must say, since they are all racist money-grabbing people, I believe in conserving our heritage, you are probably an Arab-mixed Christian convert, your ancestors may have recently converted I must add, (probably by will), I see that you might need to read up more on our history as Maronites, we are the original people mostly here, except in the south where they were mainly Catholics/Orthodox in Sidon and tyre (but mostly all of those became muslims), I am a Maronite, extremely white, have dark blond hair and hazel-green eyes… you seem to confuse Syriacs with maronites, mind the difference, also if you mean to say Phoenicia, the levant Syrians, were in origin Ugaritians/Phoenicians (but both fit under Canaanites concerning genetics), many levant Syrians look very Mediterranean I must add, they are mostly Alawite…

          I know Jesus is Yashu’ actually in Aramaic, the language he spoke, the maronites called him Yashu’, but now they call him Yasu’…

          I do not understand why I must add the suffix to Mohammed, I do not believe in that stuff, why must I say it, I respect him by not insulting or disgracing his figure, not by calling him prophet for I do not believe him to be, people must respect the difference!

          I personally have always been confused for a European, (as I get sunburn very very easily), and I hate it, I am proud of being lebanese, we are the people who gave the western world Science (Euclid, Pythagoras, Thales, Marinus of Tyre…), Law (Papinian and someone I gmfirgot who), Music (the first music theory book in the world was written by none other than Pythagoras the Phoenician mathematician by observing Phoenician music, which many historians hide and deny to this day) Fashion (we were the first people to use elaborate color patters and vary clothing), economy (we set the basis for economy), the Atomic theory (Mochus, who the pro-Greek historians deny as the initiator of the theory, even though we have presented a lot of proof of that) and many other fields I do not quite remember anymore now…

          I can live with Muslims, but under the condition that we have MUTUAL respect…

        • and dont forget gibraltar straight was named melqart straight..and dont forget queen elissar founded qart hadast or the new city whom later heritage tyre after the falled front alexander and hanna baal and his great victory front the roman..and dont forget we were the 1st one turn around africa and we were the 1st one reach the new continent and dont forget that we gave united kingdome its name britain mean the land of titan..and dont forget the language of Punic was an international mediterranean language..and dont forget a lot of greece philosphe were phoencian origen and dont forget europe it is the name of princess the daughter of cadmus and dont forget cadmus was the one who learn the greece how to write and we were the land of the alphabet and do u know the oldest ever spnaish city is cadez and we were the one who notice the importancy of the pole star and many many other things..the problem is the most highlight nowaday is for the israelan and egyptian civilization even though our history and our civilization and its influence is much better clear and permanent ..

    • Gay State Girl

      They did some genetic tests on the Lebanese and there is no discernable difference between the Christian and Muslim population.

      • Jake

        Do the cultural Arabs (Lebanese, Syrians, Egyptians) have Arab genes and traces of intermixing from when the Arabs conquered them?

        • Gay State Girl

          Apparantly all Arabic speaking populations have some degree of Arabic ancestry that vary according to the given region. But the studies have shown no genetic difference between the muslim and christian populations.

  51. st maron never live in lebanon jejej he never visited or see it..his followers later fled and ettle in hermel in noth east of lebanon..u look like a kid has 10 years..after the emperior constantine issued the christianism as religion for roma,all the pagan coverted and already the phoenician were orthodox..and we as sunna the 2nd religion and later came the maronite and the shiaa and the alawite and later the druzze and finally the jew and finally the arminian and the assirianos y caldeneos..and one last things..let be honest we as ebanese we mix the religion in everything and this is part of uncivilization way..to progress and develop we must when we talk or disccuss never interfer the religion..because all the relgion ask to do good but the followers mislead and behave wrong way isnt the fault of the religion it is the fault of our parent when they dont educate us and learn us to respect the other..my mom grew up with christian friends and my grandfather burial`s walked with him a lot of HIS CHRISTIAN FRIENDS..and by the way i m married from christian evangalical woman..and i dont need to proof u anything..all i demand to show and express ur self in good way and be away about what ur mom or dad told u ..chinese wisdom said if u wana be smart dont believe all u hear nor all u see and dont say all u know…at the end all the people would look at us as arab no matter what because they dont care about our detail and sadly all the people here think the we have desert and we have camel and i even never saw one and isnt a shame but we rnt desert nor nomad..and i m sure i look white more than my eyes are gree and my hair is brown can u tell me the color of ur eyes so i proof u that u have arab blood more than me..and dont forget big part of the arab before the islam were christian and big part didnt convert and keep being christianism especilly the 1st maronite who were settled in homs hama and alepo

  52. “The descendant`s of Shem settled al Majdal the navel of the earth,which is stuated between Satidama and the sea between the Yemen and syria,God bequethed them prophecy scripture and beauty and gave them complexions that were brown and white from Prophet’s and Patriarchs”
    so complexion is referring to color of skin many arabs have black hair but very fair color so this is correct also there are ones who are a dusky color as well as brown

  53. on 03/10/11 i dreamt of the Prophet PBH talking to Abu Bakr Siddique RA and was asking him(Abu Bakr SiddiqueRA) about the Pashtun people he Abu Bakr RA said I am lighter than them in color but they are the same as us he and the Prophet PBH

    if i am correct it edomites people doing dna testing have told lies about the pashtun this edomite face i have dreamt of and i saw faces of the pashtun also i met one jatt muslim from kashmir long time ago he did not resembled the punjabi people who called themselves jatt and i have seen my g g g grandfather who was pashtun he looked like this guy more of a semitic face and on 06/03/12 i dreamt i was wondering about my pashtun forefather( why he resembled the man from kashmir) and i saw something to do with rajput and i saw edomite

    ( this is true because today i found this 09/06/12 ) Contrary to the theory of Pashtun descent from Israelites, the British doctor and authority on oriental languages, Henry Walter Bellew, accredited for writing the first Pushtu dictionary,[1] suggested that the Pashtuns (Pathans) are actually a mixture of the Greek and Indian Rajput peoples.[2][3]

    Bellew’s theory was that all Pashtun tribal names could be traced to Greek and Rajput names, which posits the further possibility of a great Greek mixing with the ancient border tribes of India.[4][5] In addition, the renowned Arab historian Masudi wrote thatKandahar, the city in which most Pashtuns were concentrated at the time, “is a country of Rajputs” and was a separate kingdom with a non-Muslim ruler. wikipedia

  54. Haplogroup J2a-M410 in India was found to be largely confined to the castes[20] with no occurrence in the tribals, but a new study has found it at higher percentages (10%) among the Tharu indigenous people of Terai, Nepal.[31] In India, the J2 haplogroup is almost absent from tribals. Haplogroup J2b is associated with the Neolithic Greeks that spread agriculture. It has been found in the Dravidian middle classes in (high frequencies) also in the Northwest of India.The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).[20] Haplogroup J was found to be even more common in India’s Shia Muslim community, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J2a-M410, 10.6% in J1 and 4.4% in J2b.[32] The high variance of J2b2 in South Asia indicates a probable pre-Neolithic migration.(wikipedia)

    ———————————————————————————————————-

    J2

    Main article: Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)

    Haplogroup J2 It is composed of several sub-Haplogroups representing several different countries like Turkey, Iraq, Kurdistan, Lebanon, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Aegean, Balkan, Italy. One sub Haplogroup M172* is mainly found in the Northern Fertile Crescent, the Mediterranean, Iran, Central Asia, and Southern Europe. Is is though to have originated in Anatolia (Turkey and Kurdstan) ie North Mesopotamia, and spread to Europe and to other Middle countries like Lebanon Palestine Iraq, Syria. J2 subclades is found also in Armenia, Azerbaijan), Iran, Central Asia, and South Asia: for example, Muslim Kurds (28.4%), Central Turks (27.9%), Georgians (26.7%), Iraqis (25.2%), Lebanese (25%), Ashkenazi Jews (23.2%), Sephardi Jews (28.6%), Iranians (23.3%), Tajiks (18.4%), and Pakistanis (14.7%). J2 is not regularly found in Semitic-speaking populations of Africa, such as the Amhara and Tigrinya in Ethiopia (Semino et al. 2004). However, J2 has been found to encompass several subhaplogroups (22 subhaplogroups, including 5 that have high frequencies) that originated or expanded in different regions: Italy, the Balkans, the Aegean, Anatolia (Turkey and Kurds), the Caucasus (Georgia), and Somalia (see ref: Semino et al. 2004). Haplogroup J2 was used to be considered a genetic marker of Anatolian Neolithic agriculturalists. It is also very frequent in the Balkans (Greeks 20.6%, Albanians 19.6%) and in southern Italy (16.7-29.1%). Its frequency rapidly drops in the Carpathian basin (Croatians 6.2%, Hungarians 2.0%, Ukrainians 7.3%) and in Southeastern Iranian-speaking areas (Pashtuns 5.2%, Pamiris 6.1%). A significant presence of J2 (J2b2+J2a) was detected in western and south-western India (the highest being 21% among Dravidian middle castes, followed by upper castes, 18.6%, and lower castes 14%; Sengupta et al. 2006).http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29

    ==================================================================

    Origins

    Haplogroup J2 is widely believed to be associated with the spread of agriculture from Mesopotamia.[1][9]

    “The main spread of J2 into the Mediterranean area is thought to have coincided with the expansion of agricultural people’s during the Neolithic period.”[2] The age of J2 has been estimated as 18,500 +/- 3,500 years ago.[1] Its distribution, centered in Western Asia and Southeastern Europe, its association with the presence of Neolithic archaeological artifacts, such as figurines and painted pottery,[21] and its association with annual precipitation have been interpreted as evidence that J2, and in particular its J2a-M410 subclade belonged to the agricultural innovators who followed the rainfall.[22] However, Di Giacomo stressed the role of post-Neolithic migratory phenomenon, specifically that of the Ancient Greeks, as also being important in the dispersal of Hg J2.[7] Haplogroup J2b on the other hand is associated with the Neolithic Greeks that spread agriculture. It has been found in the Dravidian middle classes in high frequencies also in the Northwest of India.http://www.enotes.com/topic/Haplogroup_J2_%28Y-DNA%29

    ============================================================

    • The Mediterranean Peoples (Dravidians)

      (Extracts from ‘The Original Indians — An Enquiry’ by Dr. A. Desai)

      How the Mediterranean people came to be called Dravidians makes interesting story. The Pre-Hellenistic Lycians of Asi Minor, who where probably the Mediterranean stock called themselves Trimmili. Another tribe of this branch in the island of Crete was known by the name Dr(a)mil or Dr(a)miz. In ancient Sanskrit writings we find the terms Dramili and Dravidi, and then Dravida which referred to the southern portion of India.

      South India was known to the ancient Greek and Roman geographers as Damirica or Limurike. Periplus Maris Erithroei (Periplus of the Eritrean Sea) in the second or third century AD described the maritime route followed by Greek ships sailing to the South Indian ports: “Then follow Naoura and Tundis, the first marts of Limurike and after these Mouziris and Nelkunda, the seats of government.â€

      Dramila, Dravida and Damirica indicated the territory. Then it was applied to the people living in the territory and the language they spoke, in the local parlance Tamil and Tamil Nadu or Tamilakam.

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
      Another interesting characteristic in the distribution of M172 and more specifically, M410, in India was its higher frequencies in Upper Caste Dravidians. M410+ chromosomes were found in 13% of Upper Caste Dravidians. Sengupta goes on to suggest an Indian origin of Dravidian speakers but from a Y chromosome perspective, the paper seems to acknowledge M172 arriving in India from Middle Eastern and Indus Valley Civilizations.http://m172.blogspot.ca/2008_11_01_archive.html

  55. The Muslim historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (c. 915) recounts a tradition that the wife of Lud was named Shakbah, daughter of Japheth, and that she bore him “Faris, Jurjan, and the races of Faris”. He further asserts that Lud was the progenitor of not only the Persians, but also the Amalekites and Canaanites, and all the peoples of the East, Oman, Hejaz, Syria, Egypt, and Bahrein. wikipedia

  56. To Lud bin Shem was born Tasm and Judays?who dwelt in al Yamaamah.Lud also begot ‘Imliq whose dwelling place was the holy area(al haram) and the outskirts of Makka. Some of his descendant’s reached Syria among these are the Amalekites from whom the Pharaohs of Egypt came. To Lud to was born Umaym who had many offspring some of these broke away to join Gomer bin Japheth in East.

    from prophets and patriarchs

  57. On a spiritual side I have seen Prophet Muhammad PBH 10times and I say it with no boasting I dreamt of the Prophet PBH and I am standing besides him and I was told I am not a sayyid and I ask the Prophet PBH about the Indian people, he PBH had a big smile on his face this is why I started to find out about the Indian people particularly the dark ones 2times I dreamt the dravidians are the sumerians and 1time they are from Canaan and that the blacks and ethiopians are from cush ibn ham

    and after a yr I came across something in Prophets and Patriarchs which it said 2times Nimrod(disbeliever was son of cush son of canaan son of ham There is two cush’s and people have gotten them mixed up the sumerians migrated to india but also they went into southern arabia thats how a group of them made it to the horn of africa and the dark afro asiatic elamites are from Phut ibn Ham yes the cushites from cush ibn ham are indeed blessed as well

    i dreamt a explanation of the dravidians i was told in the dream (hamitic) in type with straight hair and were also egyptians then after some time i dreamt the dravidians came from the fertile crescent in syria close to the sea and after this i dreamt they came from egypt close to the sea and i see arrows showing their travel one arrow goes up into the fertile crescent in syria and the other goes east through south iraq and southern iran until the arrow reached northwest india! also i dreamt of a migration in the shape of a U on the river nile nowhere did i see anything to do with the horn of africa On 13/11/11 I dreamt the dravidians are Phoenicians( A branch of Dravidians did settle in the fertile crescent in syria close to the sea)

    and i found this article on the dravidians below

    The Mediterranean Peoples (Dravidians)

    (Extracts from ‘The Original Indians — An Enquiry’ by Dr. A. Desai)

    How the Mediterranean people came to be called Dravidians makes interesting story. The Pre-Hellenistic Lycians of Asi Minor, who where probably the Mediterranean stock called themselves Trimmili. Another tribe of this branch in the island of Crete was known by the name Dr(a)mil or Dr(a)miz. In ancient Sanskrit writings we find the terms Dramili and Dravidi, and then Dravida which referred to the southern portion of India.

    South India was known to the ancient Greek and Roman geographers as Damirica or Limurike. Periplus Maris Erithroei (Periplus of the Eritrean Sea) in the second or third century AD described the maritime route followed by Greek ships sailing to the South Indian ports: “Then follow Naoura and Tundis, the first marts of Limurike and after these Mouziris and Nelkunda, the seats of government.â€

    Dramila, Dravida and Damirica indicated the territory. Then it was applied to the people living in the territory and the language they spoke, in the local parlance Tamil and Tamil Nadu or Tamilakam.

    ———————–

    The Mediterraneans or Dravidians were associated with the ancient Sumerian civilizations of Mesopotamia and of Elam (southern Iran). Authors have pointed out ethnic, linguistic and cultural affinities between the Sumerians (Mesopotamians) and the Dravidians of South India, and concluded that both probably belonged to the same ethnic stock. HR Hall writes: “The ethnic type of the Sumerians, so strongly marked in their statues and relofs was as different from those of the races which surrounded them as was their language from those of the Semites, Aryans and others; they were decidedly Indian in type. The face-type of the average Indian today is no doubt much the same as that of the Dravidian race ancestors thousands of years ago…And it is to this Dravidian ethnic type of India that the ancient Sumerian bears most resemblance, so far as we can judge from his monuments. He was very like a Southern Hindu of the Deccan (who still speaks Dravidian languages). And it is by no means improbable that the Sumerians were an Indian tribe which passed, certainly by land, perhaps also by sea, through Persia to the valley of the Two Rivers.â€

    Hall is of the opinion that Dravidian people must have migrated to Mesopotamia from India, whereas others think Dravidians came from Mediterranean regions, which was their earlier home. KP Padmanabha Menon writes about their close relationship: “Orientalists, many of them, are prepared to concede that the Sumerians, the Mediterranean race, are branches of the early Dravidians.â€

  58. dravidians are L
    info below is from wikipedia!

    L was found in( 51% of Syrians from Al-Raqqah), a northern Syrian city in which its previous inhabitants have been wiped out by the Mongols by and repopulated in recent times by localBedouin populations and Chechen war refugees.[4] In a small sample of Israeli Druze haplogroup L was found in 7 out of 20 (35%). However, studies done on bigger samples showed that L-M20 averages 5% in Israeli Druze,[5] 8% in Lebanese Druze,[6] and it was not found in a sample of 59Syrian Druze. Haplogroup L has been found in 2.0% (1/50)[7] to 5.25% (48/914)[8] of Lebanese. wikipedia

    L y dna

    Syria 51.0% (33/65) of Syrians in Al-Raqqah,( 31.0% of Eastern Syrians) Mirvat El-Sibai et al. 2009[4] Iran 3.4% L1-M76 (4/117) and 2.6% L2-M317 (3/117)

    for a total of 6.0% (7/117) haplogroup L in southern Iran

    3.0% (1/33) L3-M357 in northern Iran Regueiro et al. 2006(( Turkey 57% in Afshar village,)) 12% (10/83) in Black Sea Region, 4.2% (1/523 L-M349 and 21/523 L-M11(xM27, M349)) Cinnioğlu et al. 2004, Gokcumen (2008)

    The subclades of Haplogroup L with their defining mutation(s), according to the 2011 ISOGG tree:

    L (M11, M20, M22, M61/Page43, M185)
    L* Found only in Europe from Ireland to Eastern Europe[26]
    L1 (M295) Found from Western Europe to South Asia [27]
    L1*
    L1a (M27, M76, P329) Found frequently in Indians, Sri Lankans, andBalochs, with a moderate distribution in other populations of Pakistan, southern Iran, and Arabia but also in European populations
    L1b (M317) Found at low frequency in Central Asia, Southwest Asia, and Central Europe
    L1b*
    L1b1 (M349) Principally found in Europe
    L1b2 (M274)
    L1c (M357) Found frequently among Burushos, Kalashas, Chechensand Pashtuns, with a moderate distribution among other populations inPakistan, Georgia, northern Iran, India, the UAE, and Saudi Arabia
    L1c*
    L1c1 (PK3) Found frequently among Kalash

    Mari (modern Tell Hariri, Syria) was an ancient( Sumerian and Amorite city), located 11 kilometers north-west of the modern town of Abu Kamal on the western bank of Euphrates river, some 120 km southeast of Deir ez-Zor, Syria. It is thought to have been inhabited since the 5th millennium BC, although it flourished with series of superimposed palaces that spans a thousand years, from 2900 BC until 1759 BC, when it was sacked by Hammurabi.[1]

    Abu Kamal (Arabic: أبو كمال‎, Turkish: Ebu Kemal or Kışla) is a city in eastern Syria on theEuphrates River near the border with Iraq. The Euphrates divides Abu Kamal into two areas: Shamiyya (belonging to the Levant) and Jazira (belonging to Mesopotamia) Al-Jazira, a plains region consisting of northeastern Syria and northwestern Iraq, quite distinct from the Syrian Desertand lower-lying central Mesopotamia. Abu Kamal is an economically prosperous farming region with cattle-breeding, cereals, and cotton crops. It is also home to the historical site Dura-Europos and the ancient kingdom of Mari.

  59. The origin of the Nabateans remains obscure, but they were Aramaic speakers, and the term “Nabatean” was the Arabic name for an Aramean of Syria and Iraq. wikipedia this is true because in Prophets and Patriarchs it says when the Thamud perished the remaining sons of Aram were known as Arman they are the Nabateans
    and On 04/27/12 I dreamt (ru’ya) that the Arameans are Hebrews

  60. ‘Imliq is the father of the Amalekites from whom came the berbers,who are children of Thamila bin Maarib bin Faaraan bin ‘Amr bin ‘Imliq bin Lud bin Sam(Shem) bin Nuh (Noah)PBH from prophets and patriarchs

    • imliq (Amalekites)are descendants of the adites as they mixed”

      Ibn Khaldun

      Historian and scholar, Ibn Khaldun also mentions the Thamud several times in his great universal history al-Kitābu l-ʻibār (“Book of Evidence”), but only in passing, seldom giving much information.

      Some examples from the Muqaddimah (“Introduction”):

      This can be illustrated by what happened among the nations. When the royal authority of ‘Ad was wiped out, their brethren, the Thamud, took over. They were succeeded, in turn, by their brethren, the Amalekites.

  61. Ishmael

    White or not, the Lebanese are one of the most successful minority groups in the world. They are pretty much the jews of Latin America and Africa. Ever hear of blood diamonds? That was when ‘downtrodden’ black masses took control of the Lebanese dominated diamond industry. Those black militias then used child labor to mine those diamonds.

    Carlos Slim – Lebanese. Not an ounce of mestizo blood.

  62. Joseph

    There is no such thing in the world as a “white Arab.” If a Lebanese person is “white,” then it’s because they are a Phoenician descendant, perhaps with European admixture from the Crusade period. Actually, they are very worthy people whom “the West” never bothered to help out when the Crusades ended.

    • phonecians were not white they are from canaan bin ham mixed with people of Lud son of shem

      • PureMaronite

        Phoenicians were white, that is not to be argued, just look at how the Romans, Greeks, and Egyptians portrayed them…

        Also, stop trying to make up genetic history based on Islam, you are either a lunatic imagining this stuff, or simply making this up… Religious books are almost never 100% politically correct, also, if any of the stuff u have been saying is actually based on the quran, not just your dreams, this is just adding to islam’s bad image as a racist religion, which is actually true and found all throughout the hadiths and Quran… then again islam is very contradictory, it is racist in some ayas but humanitarian in others :/

        Phoenicians were white, many writings even portray them as having fire-heads (red heads?) among them and blue eyed people…

        Don’t just make up false history to please those Phoenician-wannabe Muslims in Lebanon, they must accept that they are only partly local to the region and are more Arab than Phoenician…

        • Xera

          The Lebanese Muslims and both Christians have the same degree of Arabic ancestry and this applies to all countries that were formerly conquered by the Arabs. The Phoenicians were not “white”, they were Caucausian but they were definitely not “White”, they resembled North Africans more then anything, which makes sense since that’s where they went around.

        • PureMaronite

          again I find people referring to falsified studies claiming that Christians and muslims of arabized countries are of the same race and origin, fine, let me just disprove your argument in just one sentence:

          WHY DOLEBANESE MARONITES LOOK NOTHING LIKE THEIR MUSLIM (especially Sunni) COUNTERPARTS?

          That is a rhetorical question as I feel obliged to point out…

          You have not responded to why Greeks, Romans, and Egyptians have all represented them as whites… typical Arab argument, ignore what you cannot answer to…

          If they did in fact look like North Africans, why is it that when the Phoenicians settled in North Africa, in what is now Carthage, the Romans could clearly distinguish them from the Berbers and other native peoples of North Africa, the Romans described the approximate number and percentage of Punics (Phoenicians) and native Africans engaging in battle (in addition to the percentage of native Iberians mentioned), in their historical records? Those were records by eye-witness historians of the time, my question is, why was it so easy for these Romans to tell between the Phoenicians and North Africans?

          Seems they didn’t really look alike… :/

          Also, many Latinized Phoenicians lived within the Roman Capitals along the Mediterranean after Rome had conquered the Mediterranean…
          They fit in perfectly, coincidence?, I think not… let me just name some of the most known “romans” (Phoenicians) for example Papinian, and Ulpian, also, on a similar note, what about Appolidorus of Damascus, this all just shows that the people of the fertile crescent and Levant were in fact whiter before the Arabs, I mean, get a pure Arab, place him in modern day Rome, and I’ll bet you he would never fit in…

          Also, I must add that many Hellenized Phoenicians lived among the Greeks, and it was really extremely hard to tell who was Greek and who wasn’t since they were both white and looked alike concerning hair, skull form, eyes etc.
          Just to name a few Hellenized Phoenicians of the time; Homer, Pythagoras, Thales of Miletus, Euclid, Philo of Byblos…

          Also, check out the Roman bust of Hannibal, he looks pretty white, even upon closer observation…

          Also, if so, why is it that Phoenician mummies/skeletal remains, have a crural index and brachial index (which are both by the way prime indicators of race, and we’re used back before genetics was widespread) closer to that of the Greeks and Etruscans, than to the Egyptians and North Africans, assuming the Etrucans, Greeks, and Romans were indeed (and undoubtedly) white, that would mean that the Phoenucian race is closer to that of the Greeks and others of the like than to the North Africans, therefore inevitably “whiter”

        • Xera

          They did a DNA test on those former Arabized countries and they find there was no genetic distinction between the Christian or Muslim populations and this included the Syrians too. The Carthiagians were before the time of the Arabic conquests of North Africa and the Middle East. A person can have Caucasoid facial features and still not be “white”, Ethiopians have similar body measurements but they are not “white”. The Phoenicians and most modern day peoples in MENA are Caucasians that are not white.

        • PureMaronite

          If those studies were conducted in Malta, yes, since the Muslim Fatimids actually converted the people to Islam but then some muslims went back to cgristianity and so you have this balance of Arab bloodline between the two, since I mean, some Maltese converted to Islam but giving Arabs European blood, but then their descendants went back to Christianity, giving the Maltese Arab blood… Syria is also a different case, since there was also a lot of mixing and conversion to Christianity by former Muslims and so on…

          But that is not the case for lebanon, you see, in lebanon, it is very easy to tell the difference between a Christian and a muslim (mostly the Sunnis), they cannot be of purely the same race…

          I do not understand how Carthage being founded prior to Arab invasion or Islam adds anything to the discussion, I mean there is no need to point it out…

          Also, I understand your point about having similar features concerning face but different skin color, but do not forget that the Egyptians portrayed Phoenicians as white, and themselves as tan sandy-white, that means there is a clear distinction concerning race, though I do agree that those two civilizations profited and learned from each other enormously…

          Also, do not forget that Ancient Nubians, (Ethipians) mixed with Egyptians and later on Arabs… so, it is only reasonable that they not look completely different to Caucasians… many are not very black either… so this point is not really valid, and you can still tell the difference between an Ethiopian face and Arab/Egyptian face disregarding the skin color…

          Hmm… the Ethipians have very different crural and brachial indices from Phoenician mummies…

          You seem to be comparing Phoenicians to modern day middle easterns, keep in mind that these modern people have been very mixed with Arabs… they will not be as white as their ancient pure ancestors…

          I have Christian Lebanese friends that look very white, and do not ascribe this to the Crusades, since his family has a very old family tree kept since they were maronite sheikhs at the time, (it dates back to about the time period from 1000-1400 AD, and he has linked it to another family tree they have that was mostly kept as a family record) rich I mean, and it does not include any Europeans in the family, he is just white because he does not have a lot (or perhaps any) of Arab blood…

        • no bud you are making lies by the way i am truthful in what i have seen as i have dreamt of the Prophet 10times

        • no bud people like making up lies just as they show Prophet Abraham and Prophet Jesus as being white PBT too funny

  63. WHY DO PEOPLE EXPLAIN EVERYTHING ACCORDING TO THE WHITE MANS THINKING SORRY FOR SAYING THIS the phoenicians had interaction with the romans first i want to say the amorites were semitic and they mixed with another cananite people that were like aboriginal indians this mixed with the hittites who were mediteranean in features with black hair they were not white people also i have dreamt 2 times the lydians were in north africa and 1 time i dreamt they the lydians are the hittites the sumerians were the dark dravidians with straight hair and in prophets and patriarchs it says nimrod was son of cush son of canaan two different cushes and the phoenicans are another branch of the dravidians who mixed with people of shem

    • PureMaronite

      talk back to me when you have solid evidence and stop having the attitude of an Islamic extremist, and the religious books are never 100% correct, also, your dreams are just what they are, dreams, as in not true, you are probably such a racist that u have those stupid dreams, you are not an imam, prophet or something of the sort whatever your religion would call it…
      I am through talking to religious extremists trying to invent history, when you come to me presenting solid evidence as I do, and not telling me some vague falsified story or referring to silly dreams or religious texts, then I will see you as worthy of discussion, if not, go check the dark ages, I hear the people there were ignorant enough to believe such crap, but this, this is the 21st century, live with it, people will no longer believe/tolerate such superstitious, religion based bullshit…

  64. dubz

    Science and any other real academic study will reveal that the Lebanese, Arabs, and many of the other groups cited here are not “races”, but are more so defined by their cultural congruency, language, common sociopolitics, geography, or nationality.

    And we know there is no such thing as a “white race” as the white nationalist would like to believe, but let’s not forget that a “white” nationalist type of mentality was obviously motivated the early Europeanist who were attempting to develop a useful racial construct, which of course put the “white” or Caucasian race at the top of the global racial stratum.

    To be exclusively “white” (pure-blood) is a social construct, which began to manifest itself amongst Europeans within Europe, and before other non-Europeans were being marginalized and dehumanized for either having questionable “white non-European” origins, or being of the “other races”, many Europeans themselves, in Europe proper, who are now accepted as “white” Europeans, at one time suffered a certain degree of pseudo-racial or ethnic discrimination themselves because of their so-called “questionable” genetic backgrounds or origins. There are white nationalist today, who wouldn’t have been given their white “racial pass” at one time in Europe or America.

    Right now, many in the world, if they are not deemed as being “actually” or truly full-fledged “white European Caucasoid”, they are at least being given the privilege of being ‘honorary whites’ or a ‘honorary Caucasoid’, which seems to suit them without much questioning, as there is to them a perceived advantage socially, and in some cases economically and geopolitically.

  65. To Lud bin Shem was born Tasm and Judays?who dwelt in al Yamaamah.Lud also begot ‘Imliq whose dwelling place was the holy area(al haram) and the outskirts of Makka. Some of his descendant’s reached Syria among these are the Amalekites from whom the Pharaohs of Egypt came. To Lud to was born Umaym who had many offspring some of these broke away to join Gomer bin Japheth in East.

    from prophets and patriarchs!

    The Muslim historian Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari (c. 915) recounts a tradition that the wife of Lud was named Shakbah, daughter of Japheth, and that she bore him “Faris, Jurjan, and the races of Faris”. He further asserts that Lud was the progenitor of not only the Persians, but also the Amalekites and Canaanites, and all the peoples of the East, Oman, Hejaz, Syria, Egypt, and Bahrein. wikipedia!

    and i dreamt of saudia arabia and i saw the lights of Lud no date and on 23/11/11 i dreamt the amlaq were the giant people they are from Lud also i dreamt the lydian were in north africa 2 times and just last week of feb 2012 i dreamt the lydians are the hittites

    and in prophets and patriarchs it says this ‘Imliq is the father of the Amalekites from whom came the berbers,who are children of Thamila bin Maarib bin Faaraan bin ‘Amr bin ‘Imliq bin Lud bin Sam(Shem) bin Nuh (Noah)PBH

  66. whom are only blabling as stupid without facts..only wana curse and say wrongly things..enough..i m lebanese phoenician..we r open mind people..we have mixed with all the nations..we werent as the jew where they leave they live apart..look for example for the near yesterday when the lebaneses immigration to america latin..right now is hard to find lebanese 100% even though they immigarte by thousands men and women..but look for the jew they remain jew because simply 90% dont wana mix for many reasons..the arab are semetic people in origen are white ofcourse not as the german but white as the semetic should be..the arab mix a lot with the black especially in yemen and oman ..but the tribue of of the prophet PUOH was one of the most pure tribue in the world..and they r coming directly from abraham by ishmael and rarely they mix with other arab tribue..the prophet was white wasnt black or brunette..as the phoenician mixe and their genes change some how as same for the arab..the 1st arab wasnt berberian the lately one whom was berberian whom came mostly from najed not from hijaz as bani salim and bani helal and other..those arab who spread 400 years after the islam were like the mongol when the conquest the ancient word..those whom giving bad fame about the arab those whom eben khaldoun him self even though he is arab attack them and curse them,,the 1st arab spread the peace and safe..were loving for the science and the education they were the cause where right now thx for them we got mostly of the greece civilization..enough speaking as stupid and saying these arab berber whom living in tents and ext…arab hijaz were living in cities yes indeed primitves one but city stay city..tostudy the history u should put away and apart ur feelings..to involve ur feelings..it means u r amateur and kid and would never be a man..because the man say the true even on him self..u should read a lil bit about the gustavo lobon and learn how to be positif neutral and usefull people

    • yes i have seen the Prophet 10times bud so dont talk nonsense with me he looks same as Nabi Ibraheem PBT oval shaped face, a beautiful curve to the nose bridge which did not make the nose look huge,big hooked or jagged, v hairline, upside dwn v eyebrows and black hair which was wavy and his color was wheat in complexion

      • Most of the population of the Ancient Greece had black hair
        ·

        Ancient Greece imposed its hairstyle to the entire world known at that time.

        It was the extraordinary Greek civilization which, with its natural and simple hairstyles moving in harmonious waves, marked the hairstyle of the Ancient world. All the neighbor countries and the others conquered by them, will adopt, in one or another moment, its particular style, which later will be inherited by the Roman Empire. The Ancient Greece was the base and the fundamental pillar of al the Occidental culture. Its costumes, architecture, philosophy, and mythological traditions were inherited by the posterior centuries and were present in the Renaissance and in the 18th and 19th centuries.

        The most ancient Greek civilization was the Minoic civilization of the Island of Crete, which existed from the year 7.000 BC until the year 1600 BC. In this year they were invaded by the Indo-Europeans from the North West, who founded the Micenic civilization. Through the testimonies of vases and mural paintings we know that the people of these periods were of white skin, with black hair in the Minoic civilization and blond hair in the Micenic civilization. Micenics were called “Achaeans” by Homer in The Iliad(((. Men used natural hair, wavy and beards. The Trojans, who inhabited what today is Anatolia en Turkey, had black hair, and their women’s hairstyles were carefully elaborated))))). Married women used long hair with long braids, as a sign of their marital status. In this mural painting, “The Blue Ladies”, from 1.600 BC are notorious these hairstyles.

        This hairstyle with long hair and braids is also found in all the representations of goddesses, like Athena, Artemisia, Aphrodite o Cassandra.

        There are no representations of blonde goddesses; however, several male gods have been represented or mentioned with “golden hair”, which is a clue to assume that blond hair was the desired hair color for the Greeks.

        The cut and style was also a sign of social status: slaves used shorn heads, and people of higher classes elaborated hair dressings, perfumed with olive oil and scented with fragrances; though, in general, the Greeks’ hairstyles were pretty natural.

        Near the 5th century BC, in the Classic Greece period, women already used quite different hairstyles than those of their ancestors of the Minoic civilization. Their hair was long, shoulder-length or over the back, and usually held by a diadem or a band. In this period, women stop to use braids as a symbol of marital status. The bands which adorned their heads were called “estefanias” and some of them were made of gold.

        The next splendorous period in Ancient Greece was the Hellenistic Age, which begins at the death of Alexander the Great, in 323 BC. Since that moment may be observed in well conserved images hair artificially waved or curled. In this epoch were used a lot of types of hairstyles, including chignons, braids, bangs, hair tied with tiaras or diadems, and other styles, like the “melon hairstyle”, (image at the left) which consisted in to pull the hair backward with a chignon at the back of the head, or a very particular style found in an Aphrodite’s sculpture donated in 1912 to the Boston Museum by Francis Bartlett, dating from the year 330 BC which shows the hair tied with two knots in the top of the head. This sculpture was named “The Bartlett Head”, and reveals a hairstyle in fashion at the beginning of the Hellenistic period. Men’s style was also of wavy hair and beards, which were meticulously cut, curled and combed. To that task were barbers dedicated to. The art of cut and grooming beards became an important profession in the Ancient Greece. It was there where the first barbershops were born; they became real meeting points, like clubs, for men in general, where they met and had long conversations about philosophical, political or communal themes. Those barbershops were for them as important as the Agora, their public place of assembly.

        Sophocles Ancient Greek bust Alexander the Great Pericles

        Greeks used to perfume their heads with aromatic scents made from flowers, spices and olive oil. They believed that the scents had been delivered to the world by the gods, and they applied fragrances to their body and their hair. They used to boil a mix of flowers and herbs, like myrrh or frankincense, preparing a recipe with olive oil.((((((((((( To soften the hair, they applied brushing and massages. Also they made the hair brighter with the use of lotions, ointments and beeswax. Most of the population of the Ancient Greece had black hair, and for that reason they used yellow dyes, -which was, undoubtedly, their favorite color-, using a mix of saffron flowers and potassium water (a mix of potassium bicarbonate and carbonic acid water).

        http://thehistoryofthehairsworld.com/old_age_2.html

  67. The more our knowledge of Hittite civilisation and history has grown, the more clear-cut the Lydian connection has become. The Boghaz-koi documents for example showed that a number of Hittite kings had borne the name Mursilis; identical to the name (Myrsilos) given by Herodotus to one of the greatest kings of Lydia. The language of the Hittite Empire, known as “Hittite” to us, but actually called “Neshili” in the Boghaz-koi texts, was found to be Indo-European. Further research into the linguistic make-up of ancient Asia Minor found that Lydian too was an Indo-European dialect – a dialect identical to “Hittite”. In the words of one scholar, “Linguistically Lydian is related to the Hittite-Luwian group, but the curious thing is that unlike most of its contemporaries it seems to be Hittite rather than Luwian.” (J. G. Macqueen, The Hittites (London, 1975) p. 59) In other words the Lydian language is one and the same as that of the Hittites in their Cappadocian heartland – Nesha/Neshili – rather than Luwian, a related tongue employed by many other peoples of Asia Minor and Anatolia, such as the Phrygians and Lycians

    2times i have dreamt the lydians were in nrth africa and 1 time they are the hittites

  68. wolf

    i am Lebanese and i can tell u that yes we do have light skinned Lebanese people and i can tell u the reason why as well.
    during the time of the crusades there was more then just European countrys fighting against the Muslims (something left out of most western history books) the Lebanese Maronite helped fight as well seeing as much war was being done from and inside of Lebanon. the Lebanese while the Europeans were there mixed a lot with the Europeans hence how we got light skinned people red heads and blue eyes. i my self am not to dark but i would never call my self white as our features body shapes and skin color even though it ma at time be light are not the same and Lebanese as a race in whole are not white

    • dubz

      I believe your statement proves that the white Europeans traditional definitions of what is “white” is not always accepted by most people who are themselves placed into that category by using an old and outdated method of racial classification, which makes some people “white” out of convenience to create a possible useful alliances and increase the presence of “whites” throughout the world, making whites seem less of an anomaly or minority amongst the darker races. This alliances is used when needed, as either a buffer or to create a proxy loyal to the preservation of a perceived “white minority” that’s isolated mostly in Europe. So many groups have temporary “honorary white” status that can be revoked at anytime.

      Though it is obvious that you are clear concerning who you are, many Lebanese people when in the US, hide their heritage in order to find acceptance and even fame, and their “honorary white” status is secure as long as they don’t express any other dissenting perspectives.

  69. Meg

    i believe southern europeans are considered non-white (mediterraneans) .. they have a different culture, different look, the mediterraneans to me are considered NOT white.

    • No, Meds are Whites. They are a branch of the White race for sure.

      • dubz

        If we’re going to use the archaic ‘three branches of races formula’, I guess Mediterraneans would cling to their “honorary whites” status.

        But I found it interesting that Tony Bennett, world-renowned jazz vocalist and civil rights activist, when being interviewed by the late Johnny Carson on the Tonight Show, was for some reason verbally defined as being “white” by the host within the context of a particular conversation, and Tony Bennett’s quick rebuttal was that, “he was not white”, and then Johnny Carson, somewhat puzzled asked, “well what are you then”, Tony responded, “I’m Sicilian.”

        It is a known yet rarely talked about historical fact that dark-skinned Southern Europeans did not always readily receive the type of inclusion reserved for most “whites” in the white-only Anglo-Saxon world as they do today, though they were not treated as bad as most others who are definitely deemed as being non-white by those who assume these draconian standards and practices prescribed to in most cases.

        Yes, by all standards in today’s western world, as opposed to other so-called races, most Mediterraneans are defined within the social construct of being “white”, but in speaking with some Greeks and Spaniards, it is not as cut and dry as we would like to conveniently believe.

    • yes u are right why do u think many of them have black hair the hittites were indo aryan mixed with ancient arabians the adites(IMLIQ) some southern europeans look very white like caucasian and others dont look the same they look middle eastern

  70. Arab blood

    I am Arab from Arabian peninsula and I won’t be white, but through the DNA I am totally Caucasian, even If an Arab person look white he/she ain’t consider his self as white. We Arab have all colors and races so we ain’t mind about race but most Arab are Caucasian via the DNA. Also the study said Arab contain the best features at all because they comes in several colors and shape.

    Thanks.

    Best regards.

  71. I am arab with great honor

    Even the amazing thing about Arab that they come in many colors and they live together with ain’t mind about colors, the best example you can notice at one family people come in several shapes and colors, even between to brothers. I think Arab get these features, because long time ago they ruled the earth, so they mixed with all people which resulted today the Arab with best features. Also we can’t neglect that Arab live almost between two Continents Asia and Africa.

  72. Thamud achieved power and glory after the destruction of ‘Ad and as far as progress in civilization is concerned, they followed in the footsteps of their predecessors. The standards of living went on rising higher and the standards of humanity continued to fall lower, suffering one deterioration after the other. The people of Thamud used to carve out grand houses in the hills. These people also built castles in the plains to display wealth, power, and architectural skill. On the one hand, they erected the large edifices on the plains and hewed beautiful houses out of the hills in the caves of ((((((Ellora and Ajanta in India,))))))))) and on the other hand, they became addicted to idol-worship and the land was filled with tyranny and oppression.

  73. Haplogroup J2a-M410 in India was found to be largely confined to the castes[20] with no occurrence in the tribals, but a new study has found it at higher percentages (10%) among the Tharu indigenous people of Terai, Nepal.[31] In India, the J2 haplogroup is almost absent from tribals. Haplogroup J2b is associated with the Neolithic Greeks that spread agriculture. It has been found in the Dravidian middle classes in high frequencies also in the Northwest of India.The frequency of J2 is higher in South Indian castes (19%) than in North Indian castes (11%) or Pakistan (12%).[20] Haplogroup J was found to be even more common in India’s Shia Muslim community, of which 28.7% belong to haplogroup J, with 13.7% in J2a-M410, 10.6% in J1 and 4.4% in J2b.[32] The high variance of J2b2 in South Asia indicates a probable pre-Neolithic migration.(wikipedia)

    ———————————————————————————————————-

    J2

    Main article: Haplogroup J2 (Y-DNA)

    Haplogroup J2 It is composed of several sub-Haplogroups representing several different countries like Turkey, Iraq, Kurdistan, Lebanon, Syria, Armenia, Georgia, Aegean, Balkan, Italy. One sub Haplogroup M172* is mainly found in the Northern Fertile Crescent, the Mediterranean, Iran, Central Asia, and Southern Europe. Is is though to have originated in Anatolia (Turkey and Kurdstan) ie North Mesopotamia, and spread to Europe and to other Middle countries like Lebanon Palestine Iraq, Syria. J2 subclades is found also in Armenia, Azerbaijan), Iran, Central Asia, and South Asia: for example, Muslim Kurds (28.4%), Central Turks (27.9%), Georgians (26.7%), Iraqis (25.2%), Lebanese (25%), Ashkenazi Jews (23.2%), Sephardi Jews (28.6%), Iranians (23.3%), Tajiks (18.4%), and Pakistanis (14.7%). J2 is not regularly found in Semitic-speaking populations of Africa, such as the Amhara and Tigrinya in Ethiopia (Semino et al. 2004). However, J2 has been found to encompass several subhaplogroups (22 subhaplogroups, including 5 that have high frequencies) that originated or expanded in different regions: Italy, the Balkans, the Aegean, Anatolia (Turkey and Kurds), the Caucasus (Georgia), and Somalia (see ref: Semino et al. 2004). Haplogroup J2 was used to be considered a genetic marker of Anatolian Neolithic agriculturalists. It is also very frequent in the Balkans (Greeks 20.6%, Albanians 19.6%) and in southern Italy (16.7-29.1%). Its frequency rapidly drops in the Carpathian basin (Croatians 6.2%, Hungarians 2.0%, Ukrainians 7.3%) and in Southeastern Iranian-speaking areas (Pashtuns 5.2%, Pamiris 6.1%). A significant presence of J2 (J2b2+J2a) was detected in western and south-western India (the highest being 21% among Dravidian middle castes, followed by upper castes, 18.6%, and lower castes 14%; Sengupta et al. 2006).http://familypedia.wikia.com/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29

    ==================================================================

    Origins

    Haplogroup J2 is widely believed to be associated with the spread of agriculture from Mesopotamia.[1][9]

    “The main spread of J2 into the Mediterranean area is thought to have coincided with the expansion of agricultural people’s during the Neolithic period.”[2] The age of J2 has been estimated as 18,500 +/- 3,500 years ago.[1] Its distribution, centered in Western Asia and Southeastern Europe, its association with the presence of Neolithic archaeological artifacts, such as figurines and painted pottery,[21] and its association with annual precipitation have been interpreted as evidence that J2, and in particular its J2a-M410 subclade belonged to the agricultural innovators who followed the rainfall.[22] However, Di Giacomo stressed the role of post-Neolithic migratory phenomenon, specifically that of the Ancient Greeks, as also being important in the dispersal of Hg J2.[7] Haplogroup J2b on the other hand is associated with the Neolithic Greeks that spread agriculture. It has been found in the Dravidian middle classes in high frequencies also in the Northwest of India.http://www.enotes.com/topic/Haplogroup_J2_%28Y-DNA%29

    ============================================================

    The Mediterranean Peoples (Dravidians)

    (Extracts from ‘The Original Indians — An Enquiry’ by Dr. A. Desai)

    How the Mediterranean people came to be called Dravidians makes interesting story. The Pre-Hellenistic Lycians of Asi Minor, who where probably the Mediterranean stock called themselves Trimmili. Another tribe of this branch in the island of Crete was known by the name Dr(a)mil or Dr(a)miz. In ancient Sanskrit writings we find the terms Dramili and Dravidi, and then Dravida which referred to the southern portion of India.

    South India was known to the ancient Greek and Roman geographers as Damirica or Limurike. Periplus Maris Erithroei (Periplus of the Eritrean Sea) in the second or third century AD described the maritime route followed by Greek ships sailing to the South Indian ports: “Then follow Naoura and Tundis, the first marts of Limurike and after these Mouziris and Nelkunda, the seats of government.â€

    Dramila, Dravida and Damirica indicated the territory. Then it was applied to the people living in the territory and the language they spoke, in the local parlance Tamil and Tamil Nadu or Tamilakam.

  74. “The descendant`s of Shem settled al Majdal the navel of the earth,which is stuated between Satidama and the sea between the Yemen and syria,God bequethed them prophecy scripture and beauty and gave them complexions that were brown and white from Prophet’s and Patriarchs”

  75. indias connection to arabia (wikipedia)

    Trade and cultural links between ancient India and Arabia date back to third millennium BC.[1]((((By 1000 AD, the trade relations between southern India and Arabia flourished and became the backbone of the Arabian economy)))))))))).[2] Arab traders held a monopoly over the spice trade between India and Europe until the rise of European imperialist empires.[3] India was one of the first nations to establish ties with the Third Saudi State. During the 1930s, India heavily funded Nejd through financial subsidies.[

  76. The Prophet Hud (pbuh) – To The People of ‘Ad

    Hud was the Prophet sent to the Bani ‘Ad for their reformation. His lineage genealogy joins with the Prophet Nuh (peace be upon him) and his sons. Nuh had 3 sons who were saved from the flood– Sam, Ham, and Yafith. The children of Sam were scattered in the Arabian Peninsula. Sam had a son named Iram. And one of Iram’s sons was ‘Ad. So they named the town after his son–the city was named ‘Ad. The town of ‘Ad was very dusty and located near Ahqaf, near Hadramout in Yemen.

    Who were these people of ‘Ad? They were the people that God sent to them the Prophet Hud. They lived near Hadramout, which is now in Yemen. There they built palaces, erected temples and worshipped deities and stars.

    “Seest thou not how Thy Lord dealt with the ‘Ad (people), of the (city of) Iram, with lofty pillars, the like of which were not produced in (all) the land?” (Qur’an 89:6-8)

    The names of their chief deities were Saqi’ah, Salimah, Raziqah and Hafizun. This worshipping of statues came after a time when the people of ‘Ad once believed in the one God.

    “(Remember also) the ‘Ad and the Thamud (people): clearly will appear to you from (the traces) of their buildings (their fate) Satan made their deeds alluring to them, and kept them back from the Path, though they were Keen-sighted.” (Qur’an 29:38)

    The people of ‘Ad were tall in stature and were skillful masons. God had given them abundance of wealth, cattle, children and gardens. They had attained a considerable degree of civilization. Among them flourished the famous king Shaddad. He built a magnificent palace near ‘Aden. It was known as the Garden of Iram. He was a mighty king and his conquests extended to Syria, Iraq and the frontier of Sub- continent of Indo-Pakistan. These people were proud of their achievements and considered themselves to be invincible. They were indulged in sins and committed acts of injustice and violence. Instead of expressing a deep sense of gratitude to the Almighty God for the favors He had bestowed upon them, they became transgressors and showed disobedience to Him.

  77. Arab for ever

    We born Arab and we will die Arab, I hope in US they’ll make Arab in separate race, because Arab belong to Arab not to any race or color.

    • Yossarian

      They are thinking about in the next census frame, allowing “Middle Easterners” to right in their nation of ancestral origin. Not an actual category, and it would be for Arab, Israeli, Turk, Kurd, Iranian, Afghan, etc,.

  78. Charles

    here, in Brazil, everybody that are non-black are considered white

  79. While some of those ladies where hot , they were most decidedly NOT white..Some of them would be considered dark for Sicilians.

  80. Lebanese, Syrians, half of Turkey and Jordanians are Arab types with a lighter skin. This light skin is down to mixing with Nordic Europeans. The skull craniums exhibit a mixture of African and European. Lebanese look similar to South Americans, Anglo Goa peoples and Anglo Chinese. Even Blacks mixed with Whites look similar. They all look albino.

    Most Arabs you see in the west have a European Mother or European Father. They do this as they perceive the West as superior.

    The Phoenicians are Semites as their language is not European. And Finns,Turks and Hungarians are also mixed. Their languages are Asiatic.Your language indicates your race origin.

    Plus Iranians, Pakistanis and North Indians are lost Europeans. They have mixed with Arabs and Mongols. But they still retain a European language. But hardly any consider themselves Europeans.

    • Real White Nationalist

      ”Lebanese, Syrians, half of Turkey and Jordanians are Arab types with a lighter skin. ”

      No, they’re generally East Mediterraneans except Jordanians who really are Arabid.

      ”This light skin is down to mixing with Nordic Europeans.”

      Lol, you’ve gotta be kidding.

      ”The skull craniums exhibit a mixture of African and European.”

      No, their skulls are Mediterranean Caucasoid.

  81. Marie

    And what do these pinheads classify their Jesus as?

  82. Gregory

    curious.. question for all of you – would you consider brazilians with a darker complexion. black or just brazilian? anderson silva for example alot of people mistake him for being black

  83. dongledoink

    these girls are fair, but not white at all. theyre tan. you have bad eyes or what? not one is blue eyes or natural blonde nor freckles. they are not white, but definetly fair and hot.

  84. Robert, who do you think is the worst: White Nationalists or afrocentrists?

  85. Paul Van

    Sickle cell disease (SCD) affects millions of people throughout the world and is particularly common among those whose ancestors came from sub-Saharan Africa; Spanish-speaking regions in the Western Hemisphere (South America, the Caribbean, and Central America); Saudi Arabia; India; and Mediterranean countries such as Turkey, Greece, and Italy.

    http://www.cdc.gov/ncbddd/sicklecell/data.html

    There are clues, all over the place

  86. michel carrey

    Lebanese people are very offended when called Arabs. I mean they get pisses off and all defensive It’s funny to watch but I guess id be as offended

  87. Asian Persuasion

    Persians are White. I dated a Persian guy once and he was so hot

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